Re: [Emc-users] 2.8.2 Release

[jrmitchellj]

Great news!

Andy, if you are going to spin up a new ISO,  It would be really nice to
include/install pciutils in the package. (very useful in troubleshooting
new installations)

Thank you, and the software teams for your diligent work!

--J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
jrmitche...@gmail.com


“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the
government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of
taking care of them.”

THOMAS JEFFERSON


On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 5:54 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday 27 June 2021 19:40:20 R C wrote:
>
> > Hi Andy,
> >
> >
> > is that an ISO?  I have been looking around at the linuxcnc.org
> > website, but don't see it.
> >
> >
> > Do you have a download url?
> >
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> huh? The word Downloads  at the top of the page is a link to everything
> but "master". That whole line of words under the logo are links to
> subpages. click to your hearts content.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] 2.8.2 Release

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 27 June 2021 19:40:20 R C wrote:

> Hi Andy,
>
>
> is that an ISO?  I have been looking around at the linuxcnc.org
> website, but don't see it.
>
>
> Do you have a download url?
>
>
> thanks,
>
huh? The word Downloads  at the top of the page is a link to everything 
but "master". That whole line of words under the logo are links to 
subpages. click to your hearts content.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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[Emc-users] Advice on Tuning Servo System

[Matthew Herd]

Hi All,

It’s been a long time, but I finally got my servos mounted on my mill today.  
While attemping to tune them I encountered great frustration.  I have 1kW 
Yaskawa clone AC servo motors and drives that accept step and direction signals 
and provide encoder feedback which is currently interfaced to the Pico Systems 
USC board.  I set the acceleration and velocity values in my ini file to what I 
thought were plausible and set the ferror to 1.  I was able to move the axes 
successfully, so I started tuning the X axis (joint 0).  That proved to be a 
debacle.  I attempted to tune by turning P up until it oscillated, backing off 
to 60%, then tuning FF1.  Although P could be tuned effectively, no amount of 
FF1 made any difference.  Typical performance was that ferror increased as long 
as I held the jog button at a speed of 60 IPM.  Then I started increasing the 
max velocity for Axis X to nearly double the max velocity for Joint 0.  This 
finally caused the ferror to stabilize while jogging and I was able to tune FF1 
to achieve an ferror of around 0.002 during steady state moves.  I had some 
substantial oscillations at start and stop, but overall much improved.  I 
presume the ferror values is in inches since I’m using inches for my machine 
units.  I turned up the jog speed to ~120IPM and tweaked FF1 a bit further, 
ending up at 17.  The ferror remained ~0.002.  I then turned up the jog speed 
to 250IPM and the ferror was completely unstable.  The machine doesn’t seem to 
be accelerating as quickly as I’d expect, and tuning seems to be extremely 
challenging.  Extended jogs tend to result in the machine moving awhile after I 
release the button and ferror is all over the place (except below 120IPM with 
the settings below).  My ini data is copied below.  It’s derived from the 
sample config for the USC board.  Given all this, I have a few questions.

What is a reasonable acceleration value for a Bridgeport BOSS5 (Series 1 type 
factory CNC machine) with 1kW 5Nm AC servos?  Are my accelerations too low?  
Raising them by orders of magnitude seemed to have no effect.  I freely admit 
I’ve been too lazy to try to calculate it.
Why do I seem to need so much headroom on the Axis X max velocity over the 
Joint 0 max velocity?  I thought this was supposed to be 5-25%, but that was 
insufficient too allow FF1 to have any impact.
Does the "PID_MAX_VEL" parameter do anything?
Is my ferror the actual encoder feedback or is it the ferror from the step 
generator?  I’m trying to determine if the control loop in the drive is in need 
of additional tuning and not sure how to identify which loop is the problem.  
I.e. LinuxCNC’s control loop or the drive control loop?
What is a good strategy for finding the max acceleration and tuning the drives?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Matt


My Actual INI below:
# First axis
[AXIS_X]
MIN_LIMIT = -0.20
MAX_LIMIT = 17.80
MAX_VELOCITY = 15.0
MAX_ACCELERATION = 15

[JOINT_0]
TYPE =  LINEAR
HOME =  0.000
MAX_VELOCITY =  8.33
MAX_ACCELERATION =  10.0
PID_MAX_VEL =   150
BACKLASH = 0.000
# INPUT_SCALE sets the resolution of the encoder in user units
# for instance a 500 line encoder directly connected to a 5 TPI leadscrew
# would give 500 * 4 (for quadrature) * 5 = 1
INPUT_SCALE =   -5
# OUTPUT_SCALE sets the resolution of the step generator
# for a Gecko320 with no pulse multiplier, it should be the same magnitude
# as INPUT_SCALE, but the arithmetic sign might need to be opposite
# if it runs away.
# if you have an encoder on a stepper motor, then this should be calculated
# by number of (micro)steps/rev X the leadscrew pitch, and may not match the
# INPUT_SCALE.
OUTPUT_SCALE =  -12500
MIN_LIMIT = -0.20
MAX_LIMIT = 17.80
FERROR =   01.010
MIN_FERROR =   1.001
HOME_OFFSET =-0.10
HOME_SEARCH_VEL =-0.160
HOME_LATCH_VEL = -0.02
HOME_USE_INDEX = YES
HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = NO
DEADBAND = 0.000126
P =  1200
I =  0
D =0
BIAS = 0
FF0 =  0
FF1 =  17
FF2 =   0
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Re: [Emc-users] 2.8.2 Release

[John Dammeyer]

On the Pi4 I did the following
 sudo apt-get update
 sudo apt-get upgrade

uname -a 
shows I'm still on 4.19.71-rt24-v71+ #4 SMP PREEMPT RT from Apr 30 2020
But the 2.8.1-shuttle pre release I was running has now updated to Axis 2.8.2

John



> -Original Message-
> From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
> Sent: June-27-21 4:40 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 2.8.2 Release
> 
> Hi Andy,
> 
> 
> is that an ISO?� I have been looking around at the linuxcnc.org website,
> but don't see it.
> 
> 
> Do you have a download url?
> 
> 
> thanks,
> 
> 
> Ron
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/27/21 5:08 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> > LinuxCNC 2.8.2 has been released.
> >
> > This is mainly a bugfix release, though it also adds a new HAL
> > component ("sendkeys") for creating input device events from HAL pins.
> >
> > All users are encouraged to update.
> >
> > In addition there is a new RTAI kernel based on 4.19.195. This comes
> > with a new version of RTAI 5.3. Both should be automatically installed
> > with the 2.8.2-rt version of LinuxCNC. If you are using the ISO
> > install or know that you are running the preempt-rt kernel this need
> > not concern you.
> >
> > Thanks to the following contributors: alkabal Chris Morley damiodj
> > Dewey Garrett elovalvo Greg Carl Hans Unzner H�vard Flaget Aasen john
> > Kiall Mac Innes McCodie NhanPham Norbert Schechner Phillip Carter Rene
> > Hopf Sascha Ittner
> >
> > The abridged changelog:
> >
> > gladevcp: Numerous Updates
> > qtvcp -cam_align panel: allow selection of camera number
> > gmoccapy_3_1_3_8 - many updates
> > Typo correction Axis.py "Geometry reading" XYZBCUVW > XYZABCUVW
> > Docs add info on loading halscope
> > update 2.8 from master for xhc-whb04b-6
> > Merge pull request #1024 from kiall/2.8-axis-error-pin
> > translations - fixed moccapy / gmoccapy errors
> > Update hostmot2.9
> > Fix: update manual SSI
> > Update abs_encoder.c
> > add info on installing mesaflash
> > rx_mode typo in hm2_uart_setup
> > Docs: Many updates
> > flipflop: Add an inverted output pin, like the classic D-type latch
> > pncconf -fix inverting of steppers, in the tune axis test
> > qtvcp -qtaxis: change controls for lathe configs
> > pyui -fix commands for joints/axis changes
> > Docs: Correct pin direction 14 in the parallel port docs
> > gmoccapy_translations - new translation files
> > interp_o_word.cc: mdi-opened files leak #1088
> > command.c: use consistent external offset epsilon
> > sendkeys: A HAL component to send keystrokes and UI events
> > plasmac: fix material verter for sheetcam update
> > fix halcompile singleton option on userspace components
> > pncconf -fix internal description of 7i73 mode 1
> > pncconf -fix sserial number when parcing XML
> > pncconf -fix sserial channel number for the 7i96
> > Docs: Update URL to updated Pi SD card image. Also document limitations.
> > Merge pull request #1052 from Hans470/2.8-restructure-hal-doc
> > pncconf -many uodates
> > Added new version of Raspberry Pi4 and Raspberry Pi 400
> > AXIS: Add an axisui.error pin
> > qtvcp -qtDragon docs: add a bit of information about probing.
> > Update near.comp add {} for syntax coherence
> > PlasmaC: Many Updates
> > hal_glib -fix check_for_modes always failing
> > emccanon.cc GET_EXTERNAL_TOOL_SLOT hdl bogus request
> > Revert bad change inside driver XHC-WHB04B-6 lcnc 2.8
> >
> >
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] 2.8.2 Release

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 at 00:42, R C  wrote:

> is that an ISO?  I have been looking around at the linuxcnc.org website,
> but don't see it.

It should be an automatic update through the package manager.

I will release a new ISO in the next few days, but in the meantime the
existing ISO should immediately update the version.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] 2.8.2 Release

[Ed]

On 6/27/21 6:08 PM, andy pugh wrote:

LinuxCNC 2.8.2 has been released.

This is mainly a bugfix release, though it also adds a new HAL
component ("sendkeys") for creating input device events from HAL pins.


A big thank you! To all that helped make a great software package even 
better!



Ed.




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Re: [Emc-users] 2.8.2 Release

[R C]

Hi Andy,


is that an ISO?  I have been looking around at the linuxcnc.org website, 
but don't see it.



Do you have a download url?


thanks,


Ron



On 6/27/21 5:08 PM, andy pugh wrote:

LinuxCNC 2.8.2 has been released.

This is mainly a bugfix release, though it also adds a new HAL
component ("sendkeys") for creating input device events from HAL pins.

All users are encouraged to update.

In addition there is a new RTAI kernel based on 4.19.195. This comes
with a new version of RTAI 5.3. Both should be automatically installed
with the 2.8.2-rt version of LinuxCNC. If you are using the ISO
install or know that you are running the preempt-rt kernel this need
not concern you.

Thanks to the following contributors: alkabal Chris Morley damiodj
Dewey Garrett elovalvo Greg Carl Hans Unzner Håvard Flaget Aasen john
Kiall Mac Innes McCodie NhanPham Norbert Schechner Phillip Carter Rene
Hopf Sascha Ittner

The abridged changelog:

gladevcp: Numerous Updates
qtvcp -cam_align panel: allow selection of camera number
gmoccapy_3_1_3_8 - many updates
Typo correction Axis.py "Geometry reading" XYZBCUVW > XYZABCUVW
Docs add info on loading halscope
update 2.8 from master for xhc-whb04b-6
Merge pull request #1024 from kiall/2.8-axis-error-pin
translations - fixed moccapy / gmoccapy errors
Update hostmot2.9
Fix: update manual SSI
Update abs_encoder.c
add info on installing mesaflash
rx_mode typo in hm2_uart_setup
Docs: Many updates
flipflop: Add an inverted output pin, like the classic D-type latch
pncconf -fix inverting of steppers, in the tune axis test
qtvcp -qtaxis: change controls for lathe configs
pyui -fix commands for joints/axis changes
Docs: Correct pin direction 14 in the parallel port docs
gmoccapy_translations - new translation files
interp_o_word.cc: mdi-opened files leak #1088
command.c: use consistent external offset epsilon
sendkeys: A HAL component to send keystrokes and UI events
plasmac: fix material verter for sheetcam update
fix halcompile singleton option on userspace components
pncconf -fix internal description of 7i73 mode 1
pncconf -fix sserial number when parcing XML
pncconf -fix sserial channel number for the 7i96
Docs: Update URL to updated Pi SD card image. Also document limitations.
Merge pull request #1052 from Hans470/2.8-restructure-hal-doc
pncconf -many uodates
Added new version of Raspberry Pi4 and Raspberry Pi 400
AXIS: Add an axisui.error pin
qtvcp -qtDragon docs: add a bit of information about probing.
Update near.comp add {} for syntax coherence
PlasmaC: Many Updates
hal_glib -fix check_for_modes always failing
emccanon.cc GET_EXTERNAL_TOOL_SLOT hdl bogus request
Revert bad change inside driver XHC-WHB04B-6 lcnc 2.8





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[Emc-users] 2.8.2 Release

[andy pugh]

LinuxCNC 2.8.2 has been released.

This is mainly a bugfix release, though it also adds a new HAL
component ("sendkeys") for creating input device events from HAL pins.

All users are encouraged to update.

In addition there is a new RTAI kernel based on 4.19.195. This comes
with a new version of RTAI 5.3. Both should be automatically installed
with the 2.8.2-rt version of LinuxCNC. If you are using the ISO
install or know that you are running the preempt-rt kernel this need
not concern you.

Thanks to the following contributors: alkabal Chris Morley damiodj
Dewey Garrett elovalvo Greg Carl Hans Unzner Håvard Flaget Aasen john
Kiall Mac Innes McCodie NhanPham Norbert Schechner Phillip Carter Rene
Hopf Sascha Ittner

The abridged changelog:

gladevcp: Numerous Updates
qtvcp -cam_align panel: allow selection of camera number
gmoccapy_3_1_3_8 - many updates
Typo correction Axis.py "Geometry reading" XYZBCUVW > XYZABCUVW
Docs add info on loading halscope
update 2.8 from master for xhc-whb04b-6
Merge pull request #1024 from kiall/2.8-axis-error-pin
translations - fixed moccapy / gmoccapy errors
Update hostmot2.9
Fix: update manual SSI
Update abs_encoder.c
add info on installing mesaflash
rx_mode typo in hm2_uart_setup
Docs: Many updates
flipflop: Add an inverted output pin, like the classic D-type latch
pncconf -fix inverting of steppers, in the tune axis test
qtvcp -qtaxis: change controls for lathe configs
pyui -fix commands for joints/axis changes
Docs: Correct pin direction 14 in the parallel port docs
gmoccapy_translations - new translation files
interp_o_word.cc: mdi-opened files leak #1088
command.c: use consistent external offset epsilon
sendkeys: A HAL component to send keystrokes and UI events
plasmac: fix material verter for sheetcam update
fix halcompile singleton option on userspace components
pncconf -fix internal description of 7i73 mode 1
pncconf -fix sserial number when parcing XML
pncconf -fix sserial channel number for the 7i96
Docs: Update URL to updated Pi SD card image. Also document limitations.
Merge pull request #1052 from Hans470/2.8-restructure-hal-doc
pncconf -many uodates
Added new version of Raspberry Pi4 and Raspberry Pi 400
AXIS: Add an axisui.error pin
qtvcp -qtDragon docs: add a bit of information about probing.
Update near.comp add {} for syntax coherence
PlasmaC: Many Updates
hal_glib -fix check_for_modes always failing
emccanon.cc GET_EXTERNAL_TOOL_SLOT hdl bogus request
Revert bad change inside driver XHC-WHB04B-6 lcnc 2.8


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain

[fxkl47BF via Emc-users]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Sunday, June 27th, 2021 at 3:05 PM, Thaddeus Waldner  
wrote:

> I second the suggestion to change your pulleys to slow down the alternator. 
> Maybe try to find the rpm/amperage chart for your specific alternator AND the 
> rpm/power chart for you engine. Then configure the pulleys so that the power 
> output never exceeds the available power at any rpm.

tomorrow i'm gonna see what size pulleys i can find locally
i'm gonna shoot for a 1:1 ratio and see what happens


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain

[Thaddeus Waldner]

I second the suggestion to change your pulleys to slow down the alternator. 
Maybe try to find the rpm/amperage chart for your specific alternator AND the 
rpm/power chart for you engine. Then configure the pulleys so that the power 
output never exceeds the available power at any rpm.

Thaddeus Waldner
Newdale School
Elkton, SD 57026

From: ken.stra...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2021 1:06:01 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain

With the demise of Sears, the new term is "Chinese horsepower". They have
smaller horses...

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer 
Sent: June 27, 2021 1:54 PM
To: 'fxkl47BF' ; 'Enhanced Machine Controller
(EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain

Your engine might be rated at what we used to call 'Sears Horsepower' where
their compressors had 4HP rated motors for 115VAC 15A circuit which isn't
possible of course.  They'd rate the max surge current for a few
milliseconds I think.

Anyway, your alternator is rated at 2200 RPM for max current.  Without
knowing your engine RPM it's hard to compare but 1:2 is likely too high for
this alternator.  And if you slow down the engine to 1100 RPM to create 2200
RPM you won't get the rated power.   I'd go the other direction with 2:1 or
even 3:1 depending on what max engine RPM is.

The systems I've designed that used a 10KW ONAN genset created 110VAC into
an 80A charger.  And even then I could control the charger to limit charge
current which in turn limited load on the generator.

You will find even with sealed lead acid batteries that the max current will
only be there for a very short time so trying to achieve that level of power
output for charging is likely not needed.  Lithiums are a different story.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: fxkl47BF via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: June-27-21 7:21 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\)
> Cc: fxkl47BF
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
> On Sunday, June 27th, 2021 at 8:07 AM, fxkl47BF 
wrote:
>
> > --- Original Message ---
> >
> > On Sunday, June 27th, 2021 at 7:19 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com
wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 12:44, fxkl47BF via Emc-users
> > >
> > > emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
> > >
> > > > all of my feeble calculations led me to believe that a 6.5 hp
> > > > gasoline engine was more than enough to power a 220 amp 12 volt
> alternator. either my 6.5 hp engine is more feeble than my brain or my
calculations are way off.
> > > >
> > > > 220A x 12V = 2.640kW = 3.5hp. So it should be able to manage it.
> > > >
> > > > You might need to look at the pulley ratios. Do you have a
> > > > performance
> > > >
> > > > curve for the engine and the alternator? You need to consider
> > > > the
> > > >
> > > > relative torques for your chosen speed.
>
> i have about a 2:1 increase belt drive i was running the engine at
> full speed
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain

[ken.strauss]

With the demise of Sears, the new term is "Chinese horsepower". They have
smaller horses...

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: June 27, 2021 1:54 PM
To: 'fxkl47BF' ; 'Enhanced Machine Controller
(EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain

Your engine might be rated at what we used to call 'Sears Horsepower' where
their compressors had 4HP rated motors for 115VAC 15A circuit which isn't
possible of course.  They'd rate the max surge current for a few
milliseconds I think.

Anyway, your alternator is rated at 2200 RPM for max current.  Without
knowing your engine RPM it's hard to compare but 1:2 is likely too high for
this alternator.  And if you slow down the engine to 1100 RPM to create 2200
RPM you won't get the rated power.   I'd go the other direction with 2:1 or
even 3:1 depending on what max engine RPM is.  

The systems I've designed that used a 10KW ONAN genset created 110VAC into
an 80A charger.  And even then I could control the charger to limit charge
current which in turn limited load on the generator.

You will find even with sealed lead acid batteries that the max current will
only be there for a very short time so trying to achieve that level of power
output for charging is likely not needed.  Lithiums are a different story.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: fxkl47BF via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: June-27-21 7:21 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\)
> Cc: fxkl47BF
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain
> 
> --- Original Message ---
> 
> On Sunday, June 27th, 2021 at 8:07 AM, fxkl47BF 
wrote:
> 
> > --- Original Message ---
> >
> > On Sunday, June 27th, 2021 at 7:19 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com
wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 12:44, fxkl47BF via Emc-users
> > >
> > > emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
> > >
> > > > all of my feeble calculations led me to believe that a 6.5 hp 
> > > > gasoline engine was more than enough to power a 220 amp 12 volt
> alternator. either my 6.5 hp engine is more feeble than my brain or my
calculations are way off.
> > > >
> > > > 220A x 12V = 2.640kW = 3.5hp. So it should be able to manage it.
> > > >
> > > > You might need to look at the pulley ratios. Do you have a 
> > > > performance
> > > >
> > > > curve for the engine and the alternator? You need to consider 
> > > > the
> > > >
> > > > relative torques for your chosen speed.
> 
> i have about a 2:1 increase belt drive i was running the engine at 
> full speed
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain

[John Dammeyer]

Your engine might be rated at what we used to call 'Sears Horsepower' where 
their compressors had 4HP rated motors for 115VAC 15A circuit which isn't 
possible of course.  They'd rate the max surge current for a few milliseconds I 
think.

Anyway, your alternator is rated at 2200 RPM for max current.  Without knowing 
your engine RPM it's hard to compare but 1:2 is likely too high for this 
alternator.  And if you slow down the engine to 1100 RPM to create 2200 RPM you 
won't get the rated power.   I'd go the other direction with 2:1 or even 3:1 
depending on what max engine RPM is.  

The systems I've designed that used a 10KW ONAN genset created 110VAC into an 
80A charger.  And even then I could control the charger to limit charge current 
which in turn limited load on the generator.

You will find even with sealed lead acid batteries that the max current will 
only be there for a very short time so trying to achieve that level of power 
output for charging is likely not needed.  Lithiums are a different story.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: fxkl47BF via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: June-27-21 7:21 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\)
> Cc: fxkl47BF
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain
> 
> --- Original Message ---
> 
> On Sunday, June 27th, 2021 at 8:07 AM, fxkl47BF  
> wrote:
> 
> > --- Original Message ---
> >
> > On Sunday, June 27th, 2021 at 7:19 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 12:44, fxkl47BF via Emc-users
> > >
> > > emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
> > >
> > > > all of my feeble calculations led me to believe that a 6.5 hp gasoline 
> > > > engine was more than enough to power a 220 amp 12 volt
> alternator. either my 6.5 hp engine is more feeble than my brain or my 
> calculations are way off.
> > > >
> > > > 220A x 12V = 2.640kW = 3.5hp. So it should be able to manage it.
> > > >
> > > > You might need to look at the pulley ratios. Do you have a performance
> > > >
> > > > curve for the engine and the alternator? You need to consider the
> > > >
> > > > relative torques for your chosen speed.
> 
> i have about a 2:1 increase belt drive
> i was running the engine at full speed
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 27 June 2021 08:19:42 andy pugh wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 12:44, fxkl47BF via Emc-users
>
>  wrote:
> > all of my feeble calculations led me to believe that a 6.5 hp
> > gasoline engine was more than enough to power a 220 amp 12 volt
> > alternator. either my 6.5 hp engine is more feeble than my brain or
> > my calculations are way off.
>
> 220A x 12V = 2.640kW = 3.5hp. So it should be able to manage it.

True Andy, but thats a pb battery and will need at least 14 volts for a 
decent charge level given the average bean counter at guvmnt motors 
reticence to allow a 4 gauge cable so the alternator is well connected. 
Ground ohmage thru mounting brackets etc also has to be totalled into 
that resistance at 220 amps. His one wire spec can be a huge problem. 
BTDT back in the '70's living in Nebraska, but made my own switching 
mode voltage regulator which removes that "minor" resistance by watching 
battery voltage via a direct connection to the battery. Incorporating 
lots a si diodes in series with a 4.7 volt zener, then scaled to adjust 
it, I moved that alternator and regulator and 2 batteries to the next 4 
vehicles I wore out. The regulator tempcomp was from its position on the 
firewall, senseing battery temp from engine temp only quicker. At -25F 
it hit the battery with over 17 volts and 80 amps for about a minute 
after a cold start. But at 100F out, it was down to just over 13.3 
volts, and I never in about 12 years, had to add water to either battery 
because it was being overcharged.

Each battery has its own personality, and I could adjust the regulator to 
match things well within a month or or less of switching a battery with 
a shorted cell for a new one.

> You might need to look at the pulley ratios. Do you have a performance
> curve for the engine and the alternator? You need to consider the
> relative torques for your chosen speed.

A "salisbury" drive and clutch on the motor can scale that automatically.

I had an original "Tote Goat" when I lived in the black hills near Raoid 
City, SD, in the 1960's. Several engines used up, generally speaking 10 
mph on flat ground, 3 or 4 mph "up a pine tree", with any engine I could 
bolt in. I drug quite a few deer back to the truck with it over that 
decade. Handy as could be in rough terrain. I raised my then 3 kids on 
hamberger made from venison.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain

[fxkl47BF via Emc-users]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Sunday, June 27th, 2021 at 8:07 AM, fxkl47BF  wrote:

> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On Sunday, June 27th, 2021 at 7:19 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 12:44, fxkl47BF via Emc-users
> >
> > emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
> >
> > > all of my feeble calculations led me to believe that a 6.5 hp gasoline 
> > > engine was more than enough to power a 220 amp 12 volt alternator. either 
> > > my 6.5 hp engine is more feeble than my brain or my calculations are way 
> > > off.
> > >
> > > 220A x 12V = 2.640kW = 3.5hp. So it should be able to manage it.
> > >
> > > You might need to look at the pulley ratios. Do you have a performance
> > >
> > > curve for the engine and the alternator? You need to consider the
> > >
> > > relative torques for your chosen speed.

i have about a 2:1 increase belt drive
i was running the engine at full speed


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain

[fxkl47BF via Emc-users]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Sunday, June 27th, 2021 at 7:41 AM, Gene Heskett  
wrote:

> On Sunday 27 June 2021 07:41:35 fxkl47BF via Emc-users wrote:
> > i'm gonna explain my screwup here because this group of folks has a
> > very diverse range of expertise. enough kiss'n up. if you know of a
> > list that would be more appropriate please let me know. i've had a
> > desire for some time to build a gasoline powered battery charger. i've
> > seen it done several times and thought no big deal. my first thought
> > was to use a 3 hp engine and a 100 amp one wire alternator. but since
> > i already had a 6.5 hp engine i decided to go with that and an
> > alternator like this
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-CS130-ONE-WIRE-RED-ALTERNATOR-FOR-CHEVROL
> > ET-GMC-CHEVY-220-AMP-1-WIRE-1100665-/283190864732?hash=item41ef7dab5c.
> > i also added an ammeter like this
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/30474999?hash=item461ba47b37:g:hYUAAOxy4f
> > VTEuR6. i finished it and was ready to test. i pulled a big battery out
> > of my tractor, connected a 1000 watt inverter, and about an 800 watt
> > load. i cranked the engine and connected it to the battery. ammeter
> > showed about a 7 amp load. i switched on the inverter and it went to
> > about 9 amps. i switched on the load and it went to about 75 amps. the
> > engine was straining. i disconnected the the alternator from the
> > battery so the load could draw down the battery. after about one
> > minute i reconnected the alternator. the ammeter jumped to about 110
> > amps and it promptly stalled the engine. i tried several times with
> > the same results. all of my feeble calculations led me to believe that
> > a 6.5 hp gasoline engine was more than enough to power a 220 amp 12
> > volt alternator. either my 6.5 hp engine is more feeble than my brain
> > or my calculations are way off. thanks for any feedback.
>
> I think that formula might be in the Machinists Handbook but mine isn't
> handy. In any event that 6.5 hp engine is too puny to pull that 220 amp
> alternator at full output as thats 3.19 kilowatts at around 14.5 volts
> to the battery. And thats w/o any wiring losses.

i always used a rule of thumb 2 gasoline hp per 1000 watts
and 746 watts = 1 hp
i was very liberal with my calculations
15 volts * 220 amps = 3300 watts
3300 / 746 = 4.423
(3300 / 1000) * 2 = 6.6
either way i figured i had enough


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 27 June 2021 07:41:35 fxkl47BF via Emc-users wrote:

> i'm gonna explain my screwup here because this group of folks has a
> very diverse range of expertise. enough kiss'n up. if you know of a
> list that would be more appropriate please let me know. i've had a
> desire for some time to build a gasoline powered battery charger. i've
> seen it done several times and thought no big deal. my first thought
> was to use a 3 hp engine and a 100 amp one wire alternator. but since
> i already had a 6.5 hp engine i decided to go with that and an
> alternator like this
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-CS130-ONE-WIRE-RED-ALTERNATOR-FOR-CHEVROL
>ET-GMC-CHEVY-220-AMP-1-WIRE-1100665-/283190864732?hash=item41ef7dab5c.
> i also added an ammeter like this
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/30474999?hash=item461ba47b37:g:hYUAAOxy4f
>VTEuR6. i finished it and was ready to test. i pulled a big battery out
> of my tractor, connected a 1000 watt inverter, and about an 800 watt
> load. i cranked the engine and connected it to the battery. ammeter
> showed about a 7 amp load. i switched on the inverter and it went to
> about 9 amps. i switched on the load and it went to about 75 amps. the
> engine was straining. i disconnected the the alternator from the
> battery so the load could draw down the battery. after about one
> minute i reconnected the alternator. the ammeter jumped to about 110
> amps and it promptly stalled the engine. i tried several times with
> the same results. all of my feeble calculations led me to believe that
> a 6.5 hp gasoline engine was more than enough to power a 220 amp 12
> volt alternator. either my 6.5 hp engine is more feeble than my brain
> or my calculations are way off. thanks for any feedback.
>
I think that formula might be in the Machinists Handbook but mine isn't 
handy. In any event that 6.5 hp engine is too puny to pull that 220 amp 
alternator at full output as thats 3.19 kilowatts at around 14.5 volts 
to the battery. And thats w/o any wiring losses.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 12:44, fxkl47BF via Emc-users
 wrote:

> all of my feeble calculations led me to believe that a 6.5 hp gasoline engine 
> was more than enough to power a 220 amp 12 volt alternator. either my 6.5 hp 
> engine is more feeble than my brain or my calculations are way off.

220A x 12V = 2.640kW = 3.5hp. So it should be able to manage it.

You might need to look at the pulley ratios. Do you have a performance
curve for the engine and the alternator? You need to consider the
relative torques for your chosen speed.


--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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[Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain

[fxkl47BF via Emc-users]

i'm gonna explain my screwup here because this group of folks has a very 
diverse range of expertise. enough kiss'n up. if you know of a list that would 
be more appropriate please let me know.
i've had a desire for some time to build a gasoline powered battery charger. 
i've seen it done several times and thought no big deal. my first thought was 
to use a 3 hp engine and a 100 amp one wire alternator. but since i already had 
a 6.5 hp engine i decided to go with that and an alternator like this 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-CS130-ONE-WIRE-RED-ALTERNATOR-FOR-CHEVROLET-GMC-CHEVY-220-AMP-1-WIRE-1100665-/283190864732?hash=item41ef7dab5c.
 i also added an ammeter like this 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/30474999?hash=item461ba47b37:g:hYUAAOxy4fVTEuR6.
i finished it and was ready to test. i pulled a big battery out of my tractor, 
connected a 1000 watt inverter, and about an 800 watt load. i cranked the 
engine and connected it to the battery. ammeter showed about a 7 amp load. i 
switched on the inverter and it went to about 9 amps. i switched on the load 
and it went to about 75 amps. the engine was straining. i disconnected the the 
alternator from the battery so the load could draw down the battery. after 
about one minute i reconnected the alternator. the ammeter jumped to about 110 
amps and it promptly stalled the engine. i tried several times with the same 
results.
all of my feeble calculations led me to believe that a 6.5 hp gasoline engine 
was more than enough to power a 220 amp 12 volt alternator. either my 6.5 hp 
engine is more feeble than my brain or my calculations are way off.
thanks for any feedback.


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Re: [Emc-users] Compiling a component.

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 04:18, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> Most components are built with the .comp and the halcompile but since Andy 
> had me install the .deb

Installing the .deb installs a pre-compiled package of everything. It
should just work at that point.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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