Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[John Dammeyer]

> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 at 15:33, John Figie  wrote:
> 
> > Anyway I am wondering how the splines were made on the original.
> 
> Some days later, the YouTube Algorithm sent me:
> 
> https://youtu.be/7hVuH9XH948
> 
> It seems very quick, and an obvious choice.
> 
Fancy knurling tool eh?
John

> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 at 15:33, John Figie  wrote:

> Anyway I am wondering how the splines were made on the original.

Some days later, the YouTube Algorithm sent me:

https://youtu.be/7hVuH9XH948

It seems very quick, and an obvious choice.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[gene heskett]

On 10/28/22 13:50, andy pugh wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 at 18:33, John Dammeyer  wrote:


Again though, how easy is it to run a threading operation G-Code that ignores 
spindle RPM?

Very difficult, as the threading motion mode explicitly servos the
moving axis to the spindle encoder.

If you were to disconnect the spindle gears so that the encoder still
turned it would be an option.
Take the chuck off, and put a cnc'd BS-1 in front. and let the spindle 
turn air.
Figure on cutting one spline by writing your code so the threading G76 
to cut the spline,
is a subroutine you call  from the main loop which sets the angle for 
the splines cut. 50

lines of code max if even that.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[gene heskett]

On 10/28/22 13:30, John Dammeyer wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 at 17:57, John Dammeyer  wrote:


Although again, if one has a mill and a rotary table why bother with the lathe?

Holding the keyway cutter is easier on the lathe.

I have toyed with the idea of making a sub-spindle, with D1-4 male on
one side and female on the other side. Maybe a simple indexer, or
maybe something totally wacky for relieving:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/holbrook-B-13-71-21/img3.jpg


Say one wanted to cut internal splines in a toothed pulley.  It's likely easier 
to index the pulley with a rotary table on the mill to create the external gear 
teeth unless the lathe is really big.

The internal splines require a formed cutter held in the vertical mill spindle 
collet.  We're back to the same issue with the lathe spindle.  How to lock the 
spindle from twisting.  Once positioned it's up and down and increment X or Y 
depending on which way the cutter is oriented.  To do multiple splines index 
the rotary table and do it again.

Or be really clever and turn the spindle say 30 degrees and lock, and then move 
both X/Y along the depth of cut but that seems like way more work.

If something has been turned and bored on the lathe, I agree slotting splines 
while it's held in place on the lathe is likely easiest.  One less setup.

Again though, how easy is it to run a threading operation G-Code that ignores 
spindle RPM?  Or is the threading so tightly linked to spindle speed pulses 
that it can't be separated?

John


You would need a switch, in the lathes encoder index pulse line to 
substitute an externally generated pulse to serve as the trigger.


Use a prox switch to detect when the tool has stopped, waiting for the 
next index pulse, use a debounce for its time delay

to kill any noise of course.

Assuming you've an adequate spindle lock.

I've considered doing that for externals using my CNC'd BS-1 clone.
When its stopped, nothing will move it, its two high ratio worms in 
series, settling accuracy a few arc-seconds

at any angle. More than adequate to cut splines.

Internals wouldn't be doable that way though, but they could still be 
done on the lathe by making a foot that fit's the BS-1
in front of the normal spindle. There is always a way. But sometimes you 
have to make kindling out of the box. ;o)>



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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 at 18:33, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Again though, how easy is it to run a threading operation G-Code that ignores 
> spindle RPM?

Very difficult, as the threading motion mode explicitly servos the
moving axis to the spindle encoder.

If you were to disconnect the spindle gears so that the encoder still
turned it would be an option.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[John Dammeyer]

> On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 at 17:57, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > Although again, if one has a mill and a rotary table why bother with the 
> > lathe?
> 
> Holding the keyway cutter is easier on the lathe.
> 
> I have toyed with the idea of making a sub-spindle, with D1-4 male on
> one side and female on the other side. Maybe a simple indexer, or
> maybe something totally wacky for relieving:
> http://www.lathes.co.uk/holbrook-B-13-71-21/img3.jpg
> 
Say one wanted to cut internal splines in a toothed pulley.  It's likely easier 
to index the pulley with a rotary table on the mill to create the external gear 
teeth unless the lathe is really big.

The internal splines require a formed cutter held in the vertical mill spindle 
collet.  We're back to the same issue with the lathe spindle.  How to lock the 
spindle from twisting.  Once positioned it's up and down and increment X or Y 
depending on which way the cutter is oriented.  To do multiple splines index 
the rotary table and do it again.  

Or be really clever and turn the spindle say 30 degrees and lock, and then move 
both X/Y along the depth of cut but that seems like way more work.

If something has been turned and bored on the lathe, I agree slotting splines 
while it's held in place on the lathe is likely easiest.  One less setup.  

Again though, how easy is it to run a threading operation G-Code that ignores 
spindle RPM?  Or is the threading so tightly linked to spindle speed pulses 
that it can't be separated?

John





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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 at 17:57, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Although again, if one has a mill and a rotary table why bother with the 
> lathe?

Holding the keyway cutter is easier on the lathe.

I have toyed with the idea of making a sub-spindle, with D1-4 male on
one side and female on the other side. Maybe a simple indexer, or
maybe something totally wacky for relieving:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/holbrook-B-13-71-21/img3.jpg


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[John Dammeyer]

Couldn't resist.  Small chunk of soft aluminum.  Pass depth 0.001" to total 
0.030".  BROACH mode ON so no spindle turning.  Set BEGIN/END positions.  Used 
a Unimat DB200 cutoff tool set sideways and approximately on center.  

So as long as you can disable the spindle out of speed detection and just not 
turn it on can't this also be done in LinuxCNC Lathe as a threading operation.  
Doesn't need the extra lines from Andy's G-Code.

Still need to index and hold solid the spindle of course.

John
  

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: October-28-22 8:57 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines
> 
> OK.  Although my video doesn't show an actual broaching operation my ELS does 
> have a BROACH mode
> which is exactly like threading other than that the spindle doesn't have to 
> be turning.  So no alarm that spindle
> speed to high/lo.  One would also still have to index and lock the spindle 
> somehow.
> 
> Video is only a few years old but the ELS project was started in 2006.  Can't 
> believe it's been that long.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArRQhpHGtro
> 
> Oh and a warning.  Feed rates are much slower than Les Newell's so it's kind 
> of s snooze video.  Really should
> do one where it does an actual slot.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Les Newell [mailto:les.new...@fastmail.co.uk]
> > Sent: October-28-22 7:58 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines
> >
> > That's pretty much what I did on my lathe
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArRQhpHGtro>.
> > Good grief, that video is 13 years old. Where did the time go?
> >
> > Les
> >
> > On 28/10/2022 00:09, andy pugh wrote:
> > >
> > > With LinuxCNC:
> > >
> > > #1 = 10
> > > O100 WHILE [#1 LT 20]
> > > G0 X#1
> > > F1 F100 Z0
> > > G0 X[#1 - 1]
> > > #1 = [#1 + 0.025]
> > > O100 ENDWHILE
> > > M2
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[John Dammeyer]

> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> ditto:
> https://youtu.be/l_oC3p2lGMA
> 
> I need to find a better way to lock the spindle. It has a brake, but
> that's in the base so there is transmission slop.
> 
One could mount a large disk with slots behind the chuck perhaps?  And then a 
pin to lock it.  Or if possible on the back end of the spindle.  I don't think 
any sort of AC/DC Servo driving the spindle with a toothed belt would be solid 
enough.

Maybe a brake assembly on the chuck back plate?  Lots of possibilities.  

Although again, if one has a mill and a rotary table why bother with the lathe?

John




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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 at 16:19, Les Newell  wrote:
>
> That's pretty much what I did on my lathe
> .

ditto:
https://youtu.be/l_oC3p2lGMA

I need to find a better way to lock the spindle. It has a brake, but
that's in the base so there is transmission slop.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[John Dammeyer]

OK.  Although my video doesn't show an actual broaching operation my ELS does 
have a BROACH mode which is exactly like threading other than that the spindle 
doesn't have to be turning.  So no alarm that spindle speed to high/lo.  One 
would also still have to index and lock the spindle somehow.

Video is only a few years old but the ELS project was started in 2006.  Can't 
believe it's been that long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArRQhpHGtro

Oh and a warning.  Feed rates are much slower than Les Newell's so it's kind of 
s snooze video.  Really should do one where it does an actual slot.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Les Newell [mailto:les.new...@fastmail.co.uk]
> Sent: October-28-22 7:58 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines
> 
> That's pretty much what I did on my lathe
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArRQhpHGtro>.
> Good grief, that video is 13 years old. Where did the time go?
> 
> Les
> 
> On 28/10/2022 00:09, andy pugh wrote:
> >
> > With LinuxCNC:
> >
> > #1 = 10
> > O100 WHILE [#1 LT 20]
> > G0 X#1
> > F1 F100 Z0
> > G0 X[#1 - 1]
> > #1 = [#1 + 0.025]
> > O100 ENDWHILE
> > M2
> >
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[Les Newell]

That's pretty much what I did on my lathe 
.

Good grief, that video is 13 years old. Where did the time go?

Les

On 28/10/2022 00:09, andy pugh wrote:


With LinuxCNC:

#1 = 10
O100 WHILE [#1 LT 20]
G0 X#1
F1 F100 Z0
G0 X[#1 - 1]
#1 = [#1 + 0.025]
O100 ENDWHILE
M2





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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 at 01:34, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> I like this user interface since here you can visualize what the end product 
> will look like just like the HAAS or MACH3.
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros?start=240#247195

Don't read too much into the graphics, they are only really to
indicate which number controls which part of the shape. The images are
fixed, they don't update as the dimensions change.
It would be nice to be able to do a full 3D preview, but that would
involve graphical cleverness rather beyond my skills.

> How does one go about changing from AXIS to something like the above?  Or is 
> that only for the lathe.  Don't have a touch screen.

Those macros are for lathe only, though they are just a GladeVCP tab
that can be embedded in any of the GUIs. I have used them in Axis and
Touchy, and there is a Gmoccapy config (in the sample configs) with
them too.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 at 02:19, Chris Albertson  wrote:

> The simplest one possible might be called "DrillAHole".  It would

Like: https://github.com/linuxcnc/simple-gcode-generators you mean?
(See also 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_LinuxCNC_G-Code_Generators
)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[Chris Albertson]

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 6:24 PM andrew beck 
wrote:

> And it would be great to output a file you can save and reuse and combine
> manually later in needed
>

Yes, that was step #3.  I think you can not get around the need to write a
file

> ...
> >
> > The simplest one possible might be called "DrillAHole".  It would
> >
> >1. open up a dialog box and ask for the depth.
> >2. prompt the use to place the drill on the part i the correct
> location
> >and then "press go"
> >3. write out a simple g-code file to the disk that drills a hole to
> the
> >specificed depth
> >4. wait for the user to click "go"
> >5. start LCNC with the file it just wrote are a command line
> argument.
> >
>

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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[andrew beck]

And it would be great to output a file you can save and reuse and combine
manually later in needed

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022, 14:19 Chris Albertson, 
wrote:

> I was just going to write that what is needed is a good "conversational"
> interfasce for LCNC.
>
> You do NOT need to modify LCNC to do this.  The new interface could be a
> 100% standalone program and run completely in user space
>
> The simplest one possible might be called "DrillAHole".  It would
>
>1. open up a dialog box and ask for the depth.
>2. prompt the use to place the drill on the part i the correct location
>and then "press go"
>3. write out a simple g-code file to the disk that drill a hole to the
>specificed depth
>4. wait for the user to click "go"
>5. start LCNC the the files it just wrote are a command line argument.
>
>
> The only difference between "DrillAHole" and some other program called
> maybe "MillAPocket" is the content of the g-code and the prompts to the
> user
>
> Other programs would be more complex.   Say for drilling a hole pattern.
> It is limited by your imagination.  These are simple enough programs that
> someone who was only an "intermediate level" Python programmer could do
> this.   I'd recommend using some VERY simple to learn GUI toolkit so that
> more programmers could contribute.  Take a look at this,
> https://www.pysimplegui.org/en/latest/
>
> Of course you would not make one program for every kind of operation.
>  There would be a higher-level screen where you can select from face
> milling, pockets, or holes.   But I'd start with a very basic "DrillAHole"
> program to work out the overall plan and prove the concept
>
> The program once written could be adapted to work with other CNC controlls,
> not just LCNC.  The key to making this something "anyone" could write is to
> NOT allow it to interface to any LCNC internals.  Keep the coupling to LCNC
> as minimal as possible.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 5:34 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
>
> > I like this user interface since here you can visualize what the end
> > product will look like just like the HAAS or MACH3.
> > https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros?start=240#247195
> > How does one go about changing from AXIS to something like the above?  Or
> > is that only for the lathe.  Don't have a touch screen.
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: October-27-22 4:09 PM
> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines
> > >
> > > On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 at 22:57, John Dammeyer 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > >His initial number of X moves on the example was over inflated for the
> > number of passes he really made
> > > when cutting.
> > >
> > > With LinuxCNC:
> > >
> > > #1 = 10
> > > O100 WHILE [#1 LT 20]
> > > G0 X#1
> > > F1 F100 Z0
> > > G0 X[#1 - 1]
> > > #1 = [#1 + 0.025]
> > > O100 ENDWHILE
> > > M2
> > >
> > > > The video really shows though, what is missing in LinuxCNC is what
> > MACH called Wizards.  Enter the
> > > parameters on a screen and have it generate the G Code all within the
> > user interface.
> > >
> > > There is ngcgui, Nativecam, my lathe macros, and a (dormant) Wizards
> > framework:
> > > And probably others that I have forgotten.
> > >
> > > https://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/ngcgui.html
> > > https://github.com/FernV/NativeCAM (Link to video tutorials at that
> > link)
> > > https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros?start=240#247195
> > > https://github.com/LinuxCNC/wizards
> > >
> > > --
> > > atp
> > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > > lunatics."
> > > � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
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> >
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[Chris Albertson]

I was just going to write that what is needed is a good "conversational"
interfasce for LCNC.

You do NOT need to modify LCNC to do this.  The new interface could be a
100% standalone program and run completely in user space

The simplest one possible might be called "DrillAHole".  It would

   1. open up a dialog box and ask for the depth.
   2. prompt the use to place the drill on the part i the correct location
   and then "press go"
   3. write out a simple g-code file to the disk that drill a hole to the
   specificed depth
   4. wait for the user to click "go"
   5. start LCNC the the files it just wrote are a command line argument.


The only difference between "DrillAHole" and some other program called
maybe "MillAPocket" is the content of the g-code and the prompts to the user

Other programs would be more complex.   Say for drilling a hole pattern.
It is limited by your imagination.  These are simple enough programs that
someone who was only an "intermediate level" Python programmer could do
this.   I'd recommend using some VERY simple to learn GUI toolkit so that
more programmers could contribute.  Take a look at this,
https://www.pysimplegui.org/en/latest/

Of course you would not make one program for every kind of operation.
 There would be a higher-level screen where you can select from face
milling, pockets, or holes.   But I'd start with a very basic "DrillAHole"
program to work out the overall plan and prove the concept

The program once written could be adapted to work with other CNC controlls,
not just LCNC.  The key to making this something "anyone" could write is to
NOT allow it to interface to any LCNC internals.  Keep the coupling to LCNC
as minimal as possible.





On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 5:34 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> I like this user interface since here you can visualize what the end
> product will look like just like the HAAS or MACH3.
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros?start=240#247195
> How does one go about changing from AXIS to something like the above?  Or
> is that only for the lathe.  Don't have a touch screen.
> John
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: October-27-22 4:09 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines
> >
> > On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 at 22:57, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> >
> > >His initial number of X moves on the example was over inflated for the
> number of passes he really made
> > when cutting.
> >
> > With LinuxCNC:
> >
> > #1 = 10
> > O100 WHILE [#1 LT 20]
> > G0 X#1
> > F1 F100 Z0
> > G0 X[#1 - 1]
> > #1 = [#1 + 0.025]
> > O100 ENDWHILE
> > M2
> >
> > > The video really shows though, what is missing in LinuxCNC is what
> MACH called Wizards.  Enter the
> > parameters on a screen and have it generate the G Code all within the
> user interface.
> >
> > There is ngcgui, Nativecam, my lathe macros, and a (dormant) Wizards
> framework:
> > And probably others that I have forgotten.
> >
> > https://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/ngcgui.html
> > https://github.com/FernV/NativeCAM (Link to video tutorials at that
> link)
> > https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros?start=240#247195
> > https://github.com/LinuxCNC/wizards
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
> ___
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[John Dammeyer]

I like this user interface since here you can visualize what the end product 
will look like just like the HAAS or MACH3.
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros?start=240#247195
How does one go about changing from AXIS to something like the above?  Or is 
that only for the lathe.  Don't have a touch screen.
John



> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: October-27-22 4:09 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines
> 
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 at 22:57, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> >His initial number of X moves on the example was over inflated for the 
> >number of passes he really made
> when cutting.
> 
> With LinuxCNC:
> 
> #1 = 10
> O100 WHILE [#1 LT 20]
> G0 X#1
> F1 F100 Z0
> G0 X[#1 - 1]
> #1 = [#1 + 0.025]
> O100 ENDWHILE
> M2
> 
> > The video really shows though, what is missing in LinuxCNC is what MACH 
> > called Wizards.  Enter the
> parameters on a screen and have it generate the G Code all within the user 
> interface.
> 
> There is ngcgui, Nativecam, my lathe macros, and a (dormant) Wizards 
> framework:
> And probably others that I have forgotten.
> 
> https://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/ngcgui.html
> https://github.com/FernV/NativeCAM (Link to video tutorials at that link)
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros?start=240#247195
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/wizards
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 at 22:57, John Dammeyer  wrote:

>His initial number of X moves on the example was over inflated for the number 
>of passes he really made when cutting.

With LinuxCNC:

#1 = 10
O100 WHILE [#1 LT 20]
G0 X#1
F1 F100 Z0
G0 X[#1 - 1]
#1 = [#1 + 0.025]
O100 ENDWHILE
M2

> The video really shows though, what is missing in LinuxCNC is what MACH 
> called Wizards.  Enter the parameters on a screen and have it generate the G 
> Code all within the user interface.

There is ngcgui, Nativecam, my lathe macros, and a (dormant) Wizards framework:
And probably others that I have forgotten.

https://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/ngcgui.html
https://github.com/FernV/NativeCAM (Link to video tutorials at that link)
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros?start=240#247195
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/wizards

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[John Dammeyer]

Really wish I had unlimited funds to buy a HAAS.  That was cool.

It probably could be done in LinuxCNC.   Overall it's not a difficult 
procedure.  His initial number of X moves on the example was over inflated for 
the number of passes he really made when cutting.

The video really shows though, what is missing in LinuxCNC is what MACH called 
Wizards.  Enter the parameters on a screen and have it generate the G Code all 
within the user interface.
The Wizard could just as easily create all the X movement lines without a 
special G156.  

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Roland Jollivet [mailto:roland.jolli...@gmail.com]
> Sent: October-27-22 9:49 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines
> 
> Maybe this G156 could be implemented in Lcnc..
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_tozv1szIo
> 
> It's great, but also limited in that you need a broaching tool the width of
> the broach.
> One should be able to broach a 4mm slot with say, a 3mm width tip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2022 at 10:45, andy pugh  wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 25 Oct 2022 at 09:31, Roland Jollivet 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > If you have a CNC lathe, you could do this;
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW6QPl8Oy7g
> >
> > It could be done with a mill too, with a non-rotating fixture on the
> > head. But that still needs a run-out at the shoulder.
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[John Figie]

I see in the video that a relief is required if broaching to a shoulder. I
wonder if the cycle could also include a ramp at the end of the broached
feature? I think this would be less time consuming as no relief would be
needed to be machined, also, the finished part would be stronger.

I would like to try this for my part but I will need to finish building my
machine first and since my spindle is run from an induction motor I would
need some kind of indexing device on the headstock.

John Figie

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022, 11:53 AM Roland Jollivet 
wrote:

> Maybe this G156 could be implemented in Lcnc..
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_tozv1szIo
>
> It's great, but also limited in that you need a broaching tool the width of
> the broach.
> One should be able to broach a 4mm slot with say, a 3mm width tip
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2022 at 10:45, andy pugh  wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 25 Oct 2022 at 09:31, Roland Jollivet  >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > If you have a CNC lathe, you could do this;
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW6QPl8Oy7g
> >
> > It could be done with a mill too, with a non-rotating fixture on the
> > head. But that still needs a run-out at the shoulder.
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[Matthew Herd]

I assume you could program a stepover operation if you have a Y axis lathe.  
FYI, this broaching canned cycle from Haas works in mills too from what I 
understand.  So you should be able to do stepovers in the mill without issue.

> On Oct 27, 2022, at 12:48 PM, Roland Jollivet  
> wrote:
> 
> Maybe this G156 could be implemented in Lcnc..
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_tozv1szIo
> 
> It's great, but also limited in that you need a broaching tool the width of
> the broach.
> One should be able to broach a 4mm slot with say, a 3mm width tip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2022 at 10:45, andy pugh  wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 25 Oct 2022 at 09:31, Roland Jollivet 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you have a CNC lathe, you could do this;
>>> 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW6QPl8Oy7g
>> 
>> It could be done with a mill too, with a non-rotating fixture on the
>> head. But that still needs a run-out at the shoulder.
>> 
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> 
> 
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[Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[Roland Jollivet]

Maybe this G156 could be implemented in Lcnc..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_tozv1szIo

It's great, but also limited in that you need a broaching tool the width of
the broach.
One should be able to broach a 4mm slot with say, a 3mm width tip





On Tue, 25 Oct 2022 at 10:45, andy pugh  wrote:

> On Tue, 25 Oct 2022 at 09:31, Roland Jollivet 
> wrote:
> >
> > If you have a CNC lathe, you could do this;
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW6QPl8Oy7g
>
> It could be done with a mill too, with a non-rotating fixture on the
> head. But that still needs a run-out at the shoulder.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2022 at 09:31, Roland Jollivet  wrote:
>
> If you have a CNC lathe, you could do this;
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW6QPl8Oy7g

It could be done with a mill too, with a non-rotating fixture on the
head. But that still needs a run-out at the shoulder.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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[Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[Roland Jollivet]

If you have a CNC lathe, you could do this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW6QPl8Oy7g



On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 at 16:32, John Figie  wrote:

> I have a 1978 Honda XL175 I want to get running again. The Kick start shaft
> is broken, a common problem on this bike. Replacements are hard to find and
> usually $400 or more. Maybe I can make a few and sell a few. I am wondering
> if I can use 4130 steel that is pre hardened to Rockwell C32 and has
> 135,000 psi tensile strength. Or maybe just take a grade 8 bolt and machine
> it. or maybe even a metric grade 12.9 bolt which should be even stronger.
> Anyway I am wondering how the splines were made on the original. I could
> use the E head, (shaper) on my bridgeport and a rotary table. Do you think
> this is a good idea?
>
> Shaft_Model 
> Spline 
> John Figie
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[marcus . bowman]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 at 15:33, John Figie  wrote:

Anyway I am wondering how the splines were made on the original. I 
could
use the E head, (shaper) on my bridgeport and a rotary table. Do you 
think

this is a good idea?




At first glance, seeing the rounded inner end to the splines, I thought 
they had been cut with a vee rotary cutter (like a pointed engraving 
cutter). That's the way I would cut them, with the caveat that I don't 
think my cutters would like the hard material.


Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 at 15:33, John Figie  wrote:

> Anyway I am wondering how the splines were made on the original. I could
> use the E head, (shaper) on my bridgeport and a rotary table. Do you think
> this is a good idea?

Before looking at the picture I was going to confidently state that
they were an "automotive spline" which can be cut very readily with
the corner of a milling cutter,
But having looked, that is clearly not the case.

I think that they have to have been rolled, even a pot-broach would
need more runout than that.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[Scott Harwell via Emc-users]

 Based on volume, I would say rolled. The shaper will work fine.
Scott


On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 10:32:43 AM CDT, Ed  wrote:  
 
 On 10/24/22 9:28 AM, John Figie wrote:
> I have a 1978 Honda XL175 I want to get running again. The Kick start shaft
> is broken, a common problem on this bike. Replacements are hard to find and
> usually $400 or more. Maybe I can make a few and sell a few. I am wondering
> if I can use 4130 steel that is pre hardened to Rockwell C32 and has
> 135,000 psi tensile strength. Or maybe just take a grade 8 bolt and machine
> it. or maybe even a metric grade 12.9 bolt which should be even stronger.
> Anyway I am wondering how the splines were made on the original. I could
> use the E head, (shaper) on my bridgeport and a rotary table. Do you think
> this is a good idea?
>
> Shaft_Model 
> Spline 
> John Figie


Those splines appear to be either rotary broached or rolled. Any other 
way is going to need a relief cut between the spline and the shoulder. 
Grade 8 or 12.9 are about 150,000 PSI, about 30 Rc.


Ed.




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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[Phil Timpson]

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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[Ed]

On 10/24/22 9:28 AM, John Figie wrote:

I have a 1978 Honda XL175 I want to get running again. The Kick start shaft
is broken, a common problem on this bike. Replacements are hard to find and
usually $400 or more. Maybe I can make a few and sell a few. I am wondering
if I can use 4130 steel that is pre hardened to Rockwell C32 and has
135,000 psi tensile strength. Or maybe just take a grade 8 bolt and machine
it. or maybe even a metric grade 12.9 bolt which should be even stronger.
Anyway I am wondering how the splines were made on the original. I could
use the E head, (shaper) on my bridgeport and a rotary table. Do you think
this is a good idea?

Shaft_Model 
Spline 
John Figie



Those splines appear to be either rotary broached or rolled. Any other 
way is going to need a relief cut between the spline and the shoulder. 
Grade 8 or 12.9 are about 150,000 PSI, about 30 Rc.



Ed.




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Re: [Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[Feral Engineer]

The originals were probably made on a hobbing machine.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
www.patreon.com/theferalengineer

Order one of the coolest label makers on the market at
http://labelworks.epson.com, use coupon code "theferalengineer" and receive
20% off of your order 

On Mon, Oct 24, 2022, 10:32 AM John Figie  wrote:

> I have a 1978 Honda XL175 I want to get running again. The Kick start shaft
> is broken, a common problem on this bike. Replacements are hard to find and
> usually $400 or more. Maybe I can make a few and sell a few. I am wondering
> if I can use 4130 steel that is pre hardened to Rockwell C32 and has
> 135,000 psi tensile strength. Or maybe just take a grade 8 bolt and machine
> it. or maybe even a metric grade 12.9 bolt which should be even stronger.
> Anyway I am wondering how the splines were made on the original. I could
> use the E head, (shaper) on my bridgeport and a rotary table. Do you think
> this is a good idea?
>
> Shaft_Model 
> Spline 
> John Figie
>
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[Emc-users] OT How to make fine splines

[John Figie]

I have a 1978 Honda XL175 I want to get running again. The Kick start shaft
is broken, a common problem on this bike. Replacements are hard to find and
usually $400 or more. Maybe I can make a few and sell a few. I am wondering
if I can use 4130 steel that is pre hardened to Rockwell C32 and has
135,000 psi tensile strength. Or maybe just take a grade 8 bolt and machine
it. or maybe even a metric grade 12.9 bolt which should be even stronger.
Anyway I am wondering how the splines were made on the original. I could
use the E head, (shaper) on my bridgeport and a rotary table. Do you think
this is a good idea?

Shaft_Model 
Spline 
John Figie

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