subject:"\[Emc\-users\] Poor CV"

Have you tried the new tp with g41/g42? Im sure it wont matter but just in
case...

Terry
One thing I have noticed - with the new TP - the path reaches commanded
speed.  mach gets close but is usually a few percent under.

Take this program steve posted a while back.  (
http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/steve.ngc )

New TP
http://imagebin.org/296859
If you calculate it out - it is about 3600mm/min.  that is the commanded
velocity  (following path within .1mm aprox .004)   it actually
finishes a whole .5 seconds faster ;)

With Mach
http://imagebin.org/296858
it peaks at about 3300mm/min.

sam  (having too much fun...)



On 2/20/2014 10:37 AM, sam sokolik wrote:
 Steve!

 Here is your sample of gcode running the newest TP

 Original TP
 http://imagebin.org/294551  (limit of the 1 segment look-ahead)

 New TP (which does arc-arc , Line-arc and line-line look-ahead.)
 http://imagebin.org/294550

 Robs hard work is awesome! (and it keeps improving)

 sam


 On 04/07/2013 05:28 PM, Steve Blackmore wrote:
 On Sun, 7 Apr 2013 10:21:11 -0500, you wrote:

 On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 10:13:11AM +0100, Steve Blackmore wrote:
 CV in LinuxCNC still does not work well. Have a look at this

 http://youtu.be/ph_IVXg1C9Y
 Please share your gcode and your full config directory.
 Hi Chris - Here's part of the code - it's obvious early on without all
 of it. I'll post the config tomorrow - machine is at work.

 BTW - Changing N190 to

 N190 G64 P0.5

 and it runs better, but that's far too much deviation.

 This was first reported on 26th July 2011 in a post
 trying to understand EMC's operation
 Have a read of that thread for way more information. Daniel Rogge
 concurs in his tests posted on 29th.

 I've re posted as this is still occurring since V2.4 !

 N100 G0 G21 G17 G90 G40 G49 G80
 N110 G91.1
 N120 G1 Z20.000 F3600.0
 N130 T1 M06
 N140 (End Mill {6 mm})
 N150 G43H1 Z20.000
 N160 S12000 M03
 N170(Toolpath:- Profile 1)
 N180()
 N190 G64
 N200 G1 X0.000 Y0.000 F3600
 N210 G0 X-1.974 Y8.147 Z6.000
 N220 G1 X-1.974 Y8.147 Z-1.000 F1200.0
 N230 G2 X-1.346 Y40.813 I1274.739 J-8.173 F3600.0
 N240 G1 X-1.246 Y43.543 Z-1.000
 N250 G1 X-1.175 Y44.975 Z-1.000
 N260 G2 X0.630 Y65.631 I357.751 J-20.852
 N270 G2 X3.629 Y86.169 I356.674 J-41.593
 N280 G1 X3.738 Y86.813 Z-1.000
 N290 G1 X3.885 Y87.608 Z-1.000
 N300 G1 X4.121 Y88.649 Z-1.000
 N310 G1 X4.891 Y91.654 Z-1.000
 N320 G2 X8.045 Y101.818 I125.643 J-33.412
 N330 G2 X12.017 Y111.685 I122.371 J-43.533
 N340 G1 X12.167 Y112.021 Z-1.000
 N350 G1 X12.392 Y112.507 Z-1.000
 N360 G1 X12.836 Y113.360 Z-1.000
 N370 G1 X14.404 Y116.145 Z-1.000
 N380 G2 X48.101 Y150.602 I84.920 J-49.341
 N390 G2 X94.143 Y164.886 I51.247 J-83.839
 N400 G1 X98.585 Y165.027 Z-1.000
 N410 G2 X107.856 Y164.832 I1.550 J-146.800
 N420 G1 X114.650 Y164.312 Z-1.000
 N430 G1 X121.416 Y163.467 Z-1.000
 N440 G1 X124.191 Y163.060 Z-1.000
 N450 G1 X127.048 Y162.615 Z-1.000
 N460 G2 X139.931 Y159.885 I-25.733 J-153.243
 N470 G2 X152.544 Y156.073 I-38.655 J-150.662
 N480 G1 X157.534 Y154.334 Z-1.000
 N490 G1 X161.108 Y153.062 Z-1.000
 N500 G2 X183.667 Y143.969 I-122.738 J-337.027
 N510 G2 X205.551 Y133.371 I-145.209 J-327.734
 N520 G1 X207.732 Y132.276 Z-1.000
 N530 G1 X215.815 Y128.556 Z-1.000
 N540 G1 X219.037 Y127.150 Z-1.000
 N550 G1 X222.272 Y125.782 Z-1.000
 N560 G1 X223.416 Y125.300 Z-1.000
 N570 G1 X223.904 Y125.085 Z-1.000
 N580 G3 X237.774 Y120.073 I38.168 J83.912
 N590 G3 X252.272 Y117.334 I24.318 J88.999
 N600 G1 X253.479 Y117.248 Z-1.000

 Steve Blackmore
 --


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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2014-03-03 Thread Robert Ellenberg

Terry, that's a good idea. I suspect G41/G42 won't affect much since the
offsets are applied before the path is sent to the motion module, but it
would be nice to be sure.  Do you have a program handy that use G41/42
extensively? If so, I'd be happy to add it to the tests I run.

-Rob



On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 7:54 PM, TERRY Christophersen tcninj...@gmail.comwrote:

 Have you tried the new tp with g41/g42? Im sure it wont matter but just in
 case...

 Terry
 One thing I have noticed - with the new TP - the path reaches commanded
 speed.  mach gets close but is usually a few percent under.

 Take this program steve posted a while back.  (
 http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/steve.ngc )

 New TP
 http://imagebin.org/296859
 If you calculate it out - it is about 3600mm/min.  that is the commanded
 velocity  (following path within .1mm aprox .004)   it actually
 finishes a whole .5 seconds faster ;)

 With Mach
 http://imagebin.org/296858
 it peaks at about 3300mm/min.

 sam  (having too much fun...)



 On 2/20/2014 10:37 AM, sam sokolik wrote:
  Steve!
 
  Here is your sample of gcode running the newest TP
 
  Original TP
  http://imagebin.org/294551  (limit of the 1 segment look-ahead)
 
  New TP (which does arc-arc , Line-arc and line-line look-ahead.)
  http://imagebin.org/294550
 
  Robs hard work is awesome! (and it keeps improving)
 
  sam
 
 
  On 04/07/2013 05:28 PM, Steve Blackmore wrote:
  On Sun, 7 Apr 2013 10:21:11 -0500, you wrote:
 
  On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 10:13:11AM +0100, Steve Blackmore wrote:
  CV in LinuxCNC still does not work well. Have a look at this
 
  http://youtu.be/ph_IVXg1C9Y
  Please share your gcode and your full config directory.
  Hi Chris - Here's part of the code - it's obvious early on without all
  of it. I'll post the config tomorrow - machine is at work.
 
  BTW - Changing N190 to
 
  N190 G64 P0.5
 
  and it runs better, but that's far too much deviation.
 
  This was first reported on 26th July 2011 in a post
  trying to understand EMC's operation
  Have a read of that thread for way more information. Daniel Rogge
  concurs in his tests posted on 29th.
 
  I've re posted as this is still occurring since V2.4 !
 
  N100 G0 G21 G17 G90 G40 G49 G80
  N110 G91.1
  N120 G1 Z20.000 F3600.0
  N130 T1 M06
  N140 (End Mill {6 mm})
  N150 G43H1 Z20.000
  N160 S12000 M03
  N170(Toolpath:- Profile 1)
  N180()
  N190 G64
  N200 G1 X0.000 Y0.000 F3600
  N210 G0 X-1.974 Y8.147 Z6.000
  N220 G1 X-1.974 Y8.147 Z-1.000 F1200.0
  N230 G2 X-1.346 Y40.813 I1274.739 J-8.173 F3600.0
  N240 G1 X-1.246 Y43.543 Z-1.000
  N250 G1 X-1.175 Y44.975 Z-1.000
  N260 G2 X0.630 Y65.631 I357.751 J-20.852
  N270 G2 X3.629 Y86.169 I356.674 J-41.593
  N280 G1 X3.738 Y86.813 Z-1.000
  N290 G1 X3.885 Y87.608 Z-1.000
  N300 G1 X4.121 Y88.649 Z-1.000
  N310 G1 X4.891 Y91.654 Z-1.000
  N320 G2 X8.045 Y101.818 I125.643 J-33.412
  N330 G2 X12.017 Y111.685 I122.371 J-43.533
  N340 G1 X12.167 Y112.021 Z-1.000
  N350 G1 X12.392 Y112.507 Z-1.000
  N360 G1 X12.836 Y113.360 Z-1.000
  N370 G1 X14.404 Y116.145 Z-1.000
  N380 G2 X48.101 Y150.602 I84.920 J-49.341
  N390 G2 X94.143 Y164.886 I51.247 J-83.839
  N400 G1 X98.585 Y165.027 Z-1.000
  N410 G2 X107.856 Y164.832 I1.550 J-146.800
  N420 G1 X114.650 Y164.312 Z-1.000
  N430 G1 X121.416 Y163.467 Z-1.000
  N440 G1 X124.191 Y163.060 Z-1.000
  N450 G1 X127.048 Y162.615 Z-1.000
  N460 G2 X139.931 Y159.885 I-25.733 J-153.243
  N470 G2 X152.544 Y156.073 I-38.655 J-150.662
  N480 G1 X157.534 Y154.334 Z-1.000
  N490 G1 X161.108 Y153.062 Z-1.000
  N500 G2 X183.667 Y143.969 I-122.738 J-337.027
  N510 G2 X205.551 Y133.371 I-145.209 J-327.734
  N520 G1 X207.732 Y132.276 Z-1.000
  N530 G1 X215.815 Y128.556 Z-1.000
  N540 G1 X219.037 Y127.150 Z-1.000
  N550 G1 X222.272 Y125.782 Z-1.000
  N560 G1 X223.416 Y125.300 Z-1.000
  N570 G1 X223.904 Y125.085 Z-1.000
  N580 G3 X237.774 Y120.073 I38.168 J83.912
  N590 G3 X252.272 Y117.334 I24.318 J88.999
  N600 G1 X253.479 Y117.248 Z-1.000
 
  Steve Blackmore
  --
 
 

 --
  Minimize network downtime and maximize team effectiveness.
  Reduce network management and security costs.Learn how to hire
  the most talented Cisco Certified professionals. Visit the
  Employer Resources Portal
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

I can send one but will be tomorrow.I have one that cuts the
outside of a 6in gear it has many transitions between G2-G3 so
should be a good test.

Terry
 On Mar 3, 2014 8:34 PM, Robert Ellenberg rwe...@gmail.com wrote:

 Terry, that's a good idea. I suspect G41/G42 won't affect much since the
 offsets are applied before the path is sent to the motion module, but it
 would be nice to be sure.  Do you have a program handy that use G41/42
 extensively? If so, I'd be happy to add it to the tests I run.

 -Rob



 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 7:54 PM, TERRY Christophersen tcninj...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Have you tried the new tp with g41/g42? Im sure it wont matter but just
 in
  case...
 
  Terry
  One thing I have noticed - with the new TP - the path reaches commanded
  speed.  mach gets close but is usually a few percent under.
 
  Take this program steve posted a while back.  (
  http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/steve.ngc )
 
  New TP
  http://imagebin.org/296859
  If you calculate it out - it is about 3600mm/min.  that is the commanded
  velocity  (following path within .1mm aprox .004)   it actually
  finishes a whole .5 seconds faster ;)
 
  With Mach
  http://imagebin.org/296858
  it peaks at about 3300mm/min.
 
  sam  (having too much fun...)
 
 
 
  On 2/20/2014 10:37 AM, sam sokolik wrote:
   Steve!
  
   Here is your sample of gcode running the newest TP
  
   Original TP
   http://imagebin.org/294551  (limit of the 1 segment look-ahead)
  
   New TP (which does arc-arc , Line-arc and line-line look-ahead.)
   http://imagebin.org/294550
  
   Robs hard work is awesome! (and it keeps improving)
  
   sam
  
  
   On 04/07/2013 05:28 PM, Steve Blackmore wrote:
   On Sun, 7 Apr 2013 10:21:11 -0500, you wrote:
  
   On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 10:13:11AM +0100, Steve Blackmore wrote:
   CV in LinuxCNC still does not work well. Have a look at this
  
   http://youtu.be/ph_IVXg1C9Y
   Please share your gcode and your full config directory.
   Hi Chris - Here's part of the code - it's obvious early on without all
   of it. I'll post the config tomorrow - machine is at work.
  
   BTW - Changing N190 to
  
   N190 G64 P0.5
  
   and it runs better, but that's far too much deviation.
  
   This was first reported on 26th July 2011 in a post
   trying to understand EMC's operation
   Have a read of that thread for way more information. Daniel Rogge
   concurs in his tests posted on 29th.
  
   I've re posted as this is still occurring since V2.4 !
  
   N100 G0 G21 G17 G90 G40 G49 G80
   N110 G91.1
   N120 G1 Z20.000 F3600.0
   N130 T1 M06
   N140 (End Mill {6 mm})
   N150 G43H1 Z20.000
   N160 S12000 M03
   N170(Toolpath:- Profile 1)
   N180()
   N190 G64
   N200 G1 X0.000 Y0.000 F3600
   N210 G0 X-1.974 Y8.147 Z6.000
   N220 G1 X-1.974 Y8.147 Z-1.000 F1200.0
   N230 G2 X-1.346 Y40.813 I1274.739 J-8.173 F3600.0
   N240 G1 X-1.246 Y43.543 Z-1.000
   N250 G1 X-1.175 Y44.975 Z-1.000
   N260 G2 X0.630 Y65.631 I357.751 J-20.852
   N270 G2 X3.629 Y86.169 I356.674 J-41.593
   N280 G1 X3.738 Y86.813 Z-1.000
   N290 G1 X3.885 Y87.608 Z-1.000
   N300 G1 X4.121 Y88.649 Z-1.000
   N310 G1 X4.891 Y91.654 Z-1.000
   N320 G2 X8.045 Y101.818 I125.643 J-33.412
   N330 G2 X12.017 Y111.685 I122.371 J-43.533
   N340 G1 X12.167 Y112.021 Z-1.000
   N350 G1 X12.392 Y112.507 Z-1.000
   N360 G1 X12.836 Y113.360 Z-1.000
   N370 G1 X14.404 Y116.145 Z-1.000
   N380 G2 X48.101 Y150.602 I84.920 J-49.341
   N390 G2 X94.143 Y164.886 I51.247 J-83.839
   N400 G1 X98.585 Y165.027 Z-1.000
   N410 G2 X107.856 Y164.832 I1.550 J-146.800
   N420 G1 X114.650 Y164.312 Z-1.000
   N430 G1 X121.416 Y163.467 Z-1.000
   N440 G1 X124.191 Y163.060 Z-1.000
   N450 G1 X127.048 Y162.615 Z-1.000
   N460 G2 X139.931 Y159.885 I-25.733 J-153.243
   N470 G2 X152.544 Y156.073 I-38.655 J-150.662
   N480 G1 X157.534 Y154.334 Z-1.000
   N490 G1 X161.108 Y153.062 Z-1.000
   N500 G2 X183.667 Y143.969 I-122.738 J-337.027
   N510 G2 X205.551 Y133.371 I-145.209 J-327.734
   N520 G1 X207.732 Y132.276 Z-1.000
   N530 G1 X215.815 Y128.556 Z-1.000
   N540 G1 X219.037 Y127.150 Z-1.000
   N550 G1 X222.272 Y125.782 Z-1.000
   N560 G1 X223.416 Y125.300 Z-1.000
   N570 G1 X223.904 Y125.085 Z-1.000
   N580 G3 X237.774 Y120.073 I38.168 J83.912
   N590 G3 X252.272 Y117.334 I24.318 J88.999
   N600 G1 X253.479 Y117.248 Z-1.000
  
   Steve Blackmore
   --
  
  
 
 
 --
   Minimize network downtime and maximize team effectiveness.
   Reduce network management and security costs.Learn how to hire
   the most talented Cisco Certified professionals. Visit the
   Employer Resources Portal
   http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/employer_resources/index.html
   ___
   Emc-users mailing list
   Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
   https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
  
  
  
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

I had a copy on an old stick.
T4  dia is .05 in the tool table
This is the 45deg tool to break the edge but
still roughly the same code as the end mill code.
You will have to change the feedrate to really test
the speed as this feedrate works fine with old tp(at least on my VMC it
does.
I use v 2.5.0

%
T4 M6
G0 G90 G54 X-2.2343 Y2.1193 S6000 M3
G43 H4 Z.25 M8
Z.1
G1 Z-.045 F100.
G41 D4 X-2.1989 Y2.084
G3 X-2.1636 Y2.0694 I.0353 J.0353
X-2.1282 Y2.084 J.0499
G1 X-2.0686 Y2.1436
G2 X-2.0509 Y2.1509 I.0177 J-.0177
G1 X-2.0505
G2 X-1.2341 Y1.8359 I-.024 J-1.2776
G3 X-1.1338 Y1.8012 I.1003 J.1278
X-.9713 Y1.9637 J.1625
X-.9729 Y1.9867 I-.1625
G2 X-.9969 Y2.2332 I1.2538 J.2465
X-.8375 Y2.8512 I1.2778
X-.8221 Y2.8633 I.0219 J-.0121
G1 X-.7197 Y2.8907
G2 X-.7132 Y2.8916 I.0065 J-.0242
X-.7003 Y2.888 J-.0251
X-.1508 Y2.2069 I-.6596 J-1.0945
G3 X0. Y2.105 I.1508 J.0606
X.1508 Y2.2069 J.1625
G2 X.7003 Y2.888 I1.2091 J-.4134
X.7132 Y2.8916 I.0129 J-.0215
X.7197 Y2.8907 J-.0251
G1 X.8221 Y2.8633
G2 X.8375 Y2.8512 I-.0065 J-.0242
X.9969 Y2.2332 I-1.1184 J-.618
X.9729 Y1.9867 I-1.2778
G3 X.9713 Y1.9637 I.1609 J-.023
X1.1338 Y1.8012 I.1625
X1.2341 Y1.8359 J.1625
G2 X2.0505 Y2.1509 I.8404 J-.9626
G1 X2.0509
G2 X2.0686 Y2.1436 J-.025
G1 X2.1436 Y2.0686
G2 X2.1509 Y2.0509 I-.0177 J-.0177
G1 Y2.0505
G2 X1.8359 Y1.2341 I-1.2776 J.024
G3 X1.8012 Y1.1338 I.1278 J-.1003
X1.9637 Y.9713 I.1625
X1.9867 Y.9729 J.1625
G2 X2.2332 Y.9969 I.2465 J-1.2538
X2.8512 Y.8375 J-1.2778
X2.8633 Y.8221 I-.0121 J-.0219
G1 X2.8907 Y.7197
G2 X2.8916 Y.7132 I-.0242 J-.0065
X2.888 Y.7003 I-.0251
X2.2069 Y.1508 I-1.0945 J.6596
G3 X2.105 Y0. I.0606 J-.1508
X2.2069 Y-.1508 I.1625
G2 X2.888 Y-.7003 I-.4134 J-1.2091
X2.8916 Y-.7132 I-.0215 J-.0129
X2.8907 Y-.7197 I-.0251
G1 X2.8633 Y-.8221
G2 X2.8512 Y-.8375 I-.0242 J.0065
X2.2332 Y-.9969 I-.618 J1.1184
X1.9867 Y-.9729 J1.2778
G3 X1.9637 Y-.9713 I-.023 J-.1609
X1.8012 Y-1.1338 J-.1625
X1.8359 Y-1.2341 I.1625
G2 X2.1509 Y-2.0505 I-.9626 J-.8404
G1 Y-2.0509
G2 X2.1436 Y-2.0686 I-.025
G1 X2.0686 Y-2.1436
G2 X2.0509 Y-2.1509 I-.0177 J.0177
G1 X2.0505
G2 X1.2341 Y-1.8359 I.024 J1.2776
G3 X1.1338 Y-1.8012 I-.1003 J-.1278
X.9713 Y-1.9637 J-.1625
X.9729 Y-1.9867 I.1625
G2 X.9969 Y-2.2332 I-1.2538 J-.2465
X.8375 Y-2.8512 I-1.2778
X.8221 Y-2.8633 I-.0219 J.0121
G1 X.7197 Y-2.8907
G2 X.7132 Y-2.8916 I-.0065 J.0242
X.7003 Y-2.888 J.0251
X.1508 Y-2.2069 I.6596 J1.0945
G3 X0. Y-2.105 I-.1508 J-.0606
X-.1508 Y-2.2069 J-.1625
G2 X-.7003 Y-2.888 I-1.2091 J.4134
X-.7132 Y-2.8916 I-.0129 J.0215
X-.7197 Y-2.8907 J.0251
G1 X-.8221 Y-2.8633
G2 X-.8375 Y-2.8512 I.0065 J.0242
X-.9969 Y-2.2332 I1.1184 J.618
X-.9729 Y-1.9867 I1.2778
G3 X-.9713 Y-1.9637 I-.1609 J.023
X-1.1338 Y-1.8012 I-.1625
X-1.2341 Y-1.8359 J-.1625
G2 X-2.0505 Y-2.1509 I-.8404 J.9626
G1 X-2.0509
G2 X-2.0686 Y-2.1436 J.025
G1 X-2.1436 Y-2.0686
G2 X-2.1509 Y-2.0509 I.0177 J.0177
G1 Y-2.0505
G2 X-1.8359 Y-1.2341 I1.2776 J-.024
G3 X-1.8012 Y-1.1338 I-.1278 J.1003
X-1.9637 Y-.9713 I-.1625
X-1.9867 Y-.9729 J-.1625
G2 X-2.2332 Y-.9969 I-.2465 J1.2538
X-2.8512 Y-.8375 J1.2778
X-2.8633 Y-.8221 I.0121 J.0219
G1 X-2.8907 Y-.7197
G2 X-2.8916 Y-.7132 I.0242 J.0065
X-2.888 Y-.7003 I.0251
X-2.2069 Y-.1508 I1.0945 J-.6596
G3 X-2.105 Y0. I-.0606 J.1508
X-2.2069 Y.1508 I-.1625
G2 X-2.888 Y.7003 I.4134 J1.2091
X-2.8916 Y.7132 I.0215 J.0129
X-2.8907 Y.7197 I.0251
G1 X-2.8633 Y.8221
G2 X-2.8512 Y.8375 I.0242 J-.0065
X-2.2332 Y.9969 I.618 J-1.1184
X-1.9867 Y.9729 J-1.2778
G3 X-1.9637 Y.9713 I.023 J.1609
X-1.8012 Y1.1338 J.1625
X-1.8359 Y1.2341 I-.1625
G2 X-2.1509 Y2.0505 I.9626 J.8404
G1 Y2.0509
G2 X-2.1436 Y2.0686 I.025
G1 X-2.1282 Y2.084
G3 X-2.1136 Y2.1193 I-.0354 J.0353
X-2.1282 Y2.1547 I-.05
G1 G40 X-2.1636 Y2.19
Z.055 F20.
G0 Z.25
M5
G91 G28 Z0. M9
M30
%


On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 8:32 PM, Robert Ellenberg rwe...@gmail.com wrote:

 Terry, that's a good idea. I suspect G41/G42 won't affect much since the
 offsets are applied before the path is sent to the motion module, but it
 would be nice to be sure.  Do you have a program handy that use G41/42
 extensively? If so, I'd be happy to add it to the tests I run.

 -Rob



 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 7:54 PM, TERRY Christophersen tcninj...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Have you tried the new tp with g41/g42? Im sure it wont matter but just
 in
  case...
 
  Terry
  One thing I have noticed - with the new TP - the path reaches commanded
  speed.  mach gets close but is usually a few percent under.
 
  Take this program steve posted a while back.  (
  http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/steve.ngc )
 
  New TP
  http://imagebin.org/296859
  If you calculate it out - it is about 3600mm/min.  that is the commanded
  velocity  (following path within .1mm aprox .004)   it actually
  finishes a whole .5 seconds faster ;)
 
  With Mach
  http://imagebin.org/296858
  it peaks at about 3300mm/min.
 
  sam  (having too much fun...)
 
 
 
  On 2/20/2014 10:37 AM, sam sokolik wrote:
   Steve!
  
   Here is your sample of gcode running the newest TP

Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

Sorry I changed from the 65ipm to 100 before I sent it
I usually run that operation at 65 to get the surface finish
I may need more spindle speed with the new tp :)

Terry


On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:20 PM, TERRY Christophersen
tcninj...@gmail.comwrote:

 I had a copy on an old stick.
 T4  dia is .05 in the tool table
 This is the 45deg tool to break the edge but
 still roughly the same code as the end mill code.
 You will have to change the feedrate to really test
 the speed as this feedrate works fine with old tp(at least on my VMC it
 does.
 I use v 2.5.0

 %
 T4 M6
 G0 G90 G54 X-2.2343 Y2.1193 S6000 M3
 G43 H4 Z.25 M8
 Z.1
 G1 Z-.045 F100.
 G41 D4 X-2.1989 Y2.084
 G3 X-2.1636 Y2.0694 I.0353 J.0353
 X-2.1282 Y2.084 J.0499
 G1 X-2.0686 Y2.1436
 G2 X-2.0509 Y2.1509 I.0177 J-.0177
 G1 X-2.0505
 G2 X-1.2341 Y1.8359 I-.024 J-1.2776
 G3 X-1.1338 Y1.8012 I.1003 J.1278
 X-.9713 Y1.9637 J.1625
 X-.9729 Y1.9867 I-.1625
 G2 X-.9969 Y2.2332 I1.2538 J.2465
 X-.8375 Y2.8512 I1.2778
 X-.8221 Y2.8633 I.0219 J-.0121
 G1 X-.7197 Y2.8907
 G2 X-.7132 Y2.8916 I.0065 J-.0242
 X-.7003 Y2.888 J-.0251
 X-.1508 Y2.2069 I-.6596 J-1.0945
 G3 X0. Y2.105 I.1508 J.0606
 X.1508 Y2.2069 J.1625
 G2 X.7003 Y2.888 I1.2091 J-.4134
 X.7132 Y2.8916 I.0129 J-.0215
 X.7197 Y2.8907 J-.0251
 G1 X.8221 Y2.8633
 G2 X.8375 Y2.8512 I-.0065 J-.0242
 X.9969 Y2.2332 I-1.1184 J-.618
 X.9729 Y1.9867 I-1.2778
 G3 X.9713 Y1.9637 I.1609 J-.023
 X1.1338 Y1.8012 I.1625
 X1.2341 Y1.8359 J.1625
 G2 X2.0505 Y2.1509 I.8404 J-.9626
 G1 X2.0509
 G2 X2.0686 Y2.1436 J-.025
 G1 X2.1436 Y2.0686
 G2 X2.1509 Y2.0509 I-.0177 J-.0177
 G1 Y2.0505
 G2 X1.8359 Y1.2341 I-1.2776 J.024
 G3 X1.8012 Y1.1338 I.1278 J-.1003
 X1.9637 Y.9713 I.1625
 X1.9867 Y.9729 J.1625
 G2 X2.2332 Y.9969 I.2465 J-1.2538
 X2.8512 Y.8375 J-1.2778
 X2.8633 Y.8221 I-.0121 J-.0219
 G1 X2.8907 Y.7197
 G2 X2.8916 Y.7132 I-.0242 J-.0065
 X2.888 Y.7003 I-.0251
 X2.2069 Y.1508 I-1.0945 J.6596
 G3 X2.105 Y0. I.0606 J-.1508
 X2.2069 Y-.1508 I.1625
 G2 X2.888 Y-.7003 I-.4134 J-1.2091
 X2.8916 Y-.7132 I-.0215 J-.0129
 X2.8907 Y-.7197 I-.0251
 G1 X2.8633 Y-.8221
 G2 X2.8512 Y-.8375 I-.0242 J.0065
 X2.2332 Y-.9969 I-.618 J1.1184
 X1.9867 Y-.9729 J1.2778
 G3 X1.9637 Y-.9713 I-.023 J-.1609
 X1.8012 Y-1.1338 J-.1625
 X1.8359 Y-1.2341 I.1625
 G2 X2.1509 Y-2.0505 I-.9626 J-.8404
 G1 Y-2.0509
 G2 X2.1436 Y-2.0686 I-.025
 G1 X2.0686 Y-2.1436
 G2 X2.0509 Y-2.1509 I-.0177 J.0177
 G1 X2.0505
 G2 X1.2341 Y-1.8359 I.024 J1.2776
 G3 X1.1338 Y-1.8012 I-.1003 J-.1278
 X.9713 Y-1.9637 J-.1625
 X.9729 Y-1.9867 I.1625
 G2 X.9969 Y-2.2332 I-1.2538 J-.2465
 X.8375 Y-2.8512 I-1.2778
 X.8221 Y-2.8633 I-.0219 J.0121
 G1 X.7197 Y-2.8907
 G2 X.7132 Y-2.8916 I-.0065 J.0242
 X.7003 Y-2.888 J.0251
 X.1508 Y-2.2069 I.6596 J1.0945
 G3 X0. Y-2.105 I-.1508 J-.0606
 X-.1508 Y-2.2069 J-.1625
 G2 X-.7003 Y-2.888 I-1.2091 J.4134
 X-.7132 Y-2.8916 I-.0129 J.0215
 X-.7197 Y-2.8907 J.0251
 G1 X-.8221 Y-2.8633
 G2 X-.8375 Y-2.8512 I.0065 J.0242
 X-.9969 Y-2.2332 I1.1184 J.618
 X-.9729 Y-1.9867 I1.2778
 G3 X-.9713 Y-1.9637 I-.1609 J.023
 X-1.1338 Y-1.8012 I-.1625
 X-1.2341 Y-1.8359 J-.1625
 G2 X-2.0505 Y-2.1509 I-.8404 J.9626
 G1 X-2.0509
 G2 X-2.0686 Y-2.1436 J.025
 G1 X-2.1436 Y-2.0686
 G2 X-2.1509 Y-2.0509 I.0177 J.0177
 G1 Y-2.0505
 G2 X-1.8359 Y-1.2341 I1.2776 J-.024
 G3 X-1.8012 Y-1.1338 I-.1278 J.1003
 X-1.9637 Y-.9713 I-.1625
 X-1.9867 Y-.9729 J-.1625
 G2 X-2.2332 Y-.9969 I-.2465 J1.2538
 X-2.8512 Y-.8375 J1.2778
 X-2.8633 Y-.8221 I.0121 J.0219
 G1 X-2.8907 Y-.7197
 G2 X-2.8916 Y-.7132 I.0242 J.0065
 X-2.888 Y-.7003 I.0251
 X-2.2069 Y-.1508 I1.0945 J-.6596
 G3 X-2.105 Y0. I-.0606 J.1508
 X-2.2069 Y.1508 I-.1625
 G2 X-2.888 Y.7003 I.4134 J1.2091
 X-2.8916 Y.7132 I.0215 J.0129
 X-2.8907 Y.7197 I.0251
 G1 X-2.8633 Y.8221
 G2 X-2.8512 Y.8375 I.0242 J-.0065
 X-2.2332 Y.9969 I.618 J-1.1184
 X-1.9867 Y.9729 J-1.2778
 G3 X-1.9637 Y.9713 I.023 J.1609
 X-1.8012 Y1.1338 J.1625
 X-1.8359 Y1.2341 I-.1625
 G2 X-2.1509 Y2.0505 I.9626 J.8404
 G1 Y2.0509
 G2 X-2.1436 Y2.0686 I.025
 G1 X-2.1282 Y2.084
 G3 X-2.1136 Y2.1193 I-.0354 J.0353
 X-2.1282 Y2.1547 I-.05
 G1 G40 X-2.1636 Y2.19
 Z.055 F20.
 G0 Z.25
 M5
 G91 G28 Z0. M9
 M30
 %


 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 8:32 PM, Robert Ellenberg rwe...@gmail.com wrote:

 Terry, that's a good idea. I suspect G41/G42 won't affect much since the
 offsets are applied before the path is sent to the motion module, but it
 would be nice to be sure.  Do you have a program handy that use G41/42
 extensively? If so, I'd be happy to add it to the tests I run.

 -Rob



 On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 7:54 PM, TERRY Christophersen tcninj...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Have you tried the new tp with g41/g42? Im sure it wont matter but just
 in
  case...
 
  Terry
  One thing I have noticed - with the new TP - the path reaches commanded
  speed.  mach gets close but is usually a few percent under.
 
  Take this program steve posted a while back.  (
  http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/steve.ngc )
 
  New TP
  http://imagebin.org/296859
  If you

Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2014-02-20 Thread sam sokolik

Steve!

Here is your sample of gcode running the newest TP

Original TP
http://imagebin.org/294551  (limit of the 1 segment look-ahead)

New TP (which does arc-arc , Line-arc and line-line look-ahead.)
http://imagebin.org/294550

Robs hard work is awesome! (and it keeps improving)

sam


On 04/07/2013 05:28 PM, Steve Blackmore wrote:
 On Sun, 7 Apr 2013 10:21:11 -0500, you wrote:

 On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 10:13:11AM +0100, Steve Blackmore wrote:
 CV in LinuxCNC still does not work well. Have a look at this

 http://youtu.be/ph_IVXg1C9Y
 Please share your gcode and your full config directory.
 Hi Chris - Here's part of the code - it's obvious early on without all
 of it. I'll post the config tomorrow - machine is at work.

 BTW - Changing N190 to

 N190 G64 P0.5

 and it runs better, but that's far too much deviation.

 This was first reported on 26th July 2011 in a post
 trying to understand EMC's operation
 Have a read of that thread for way more information. Daniel Rogge
 concurs in his tests posted on 29th.

 I've re posted as this is still occurring since V2.4 !

 N100 G0 G21 G17 G90 G40 G49 G80
 N110 G91.1
 N120 G1 Z20.000 F3600.0
 N130 T1 M06
 N140 (End Mill {6 mm})
 N150 G43H1 Z20.000
 N160 S12000 M03
 N170(Toolpath:- Profile 1)
 N180()
 N190 G64
 N200 G1 X0.000 Y0.000 F3600
 N210 G0 X-1.974 Y8.147 Z6.000
 N220 G1 X-1.974 Y8.147 Z-1.000 F1200.0
 N230 G2 X-1.346 Y40.813 I1274.739 J-8.173 F3600.0
 N240 G1 X-1.246 Y43.543 Z-1.000
 N250 G1 X-1.175 Y44.975 Z-1.000
 N260 G2 X0.630 Y65.631 I357.751 J-20.852
 N270 G2 X3.629 Y86.169 I356.674 J-41.593
 N280 G1 X3.738 Y86.813 Z-1.000
 N290 G1 X3.885 Y87.608 Z-1.000
 N300 G1 X4.121 Y88.649 Z-1.000
 N310 G1 X4.891 Y91.654 Z-1.000
 N320 G2 X8.045 Y101.818 I125.643 J-33.412
 N330 G2 X12.017 Y111.685 I122.371 J-43.533
 N340 G1 X12.167 Y112.021 Z-1.000
 N350 G1 X12.392 Y112.507 Z-1.000
 N360 G1 X12.836 Y113.360 Z-1.000
 N370 G1 X14.404 Y116.145 Z-1.000
 N380 G2 X48.101 Y150.602 I84.920 J-49.341
 N390 G2 X94.143 Y164.886 I51.247 J-83.839
 N400 G1 X98.585 Y165.027 Z-1.000
 N410 G2 X107.856 Y164.832 I1.550 J-146.800
 N420 G1 X114.650 Y164.312 Z-1.000
 N430 G1 X121.416 Y163.467 Z-1.000
 N440 G1 X124.191 Y163.060 Z-1.000
 N450 G1 X127.048 Y162.615 Z-1.000
 N460 G2 X139.931 Y159.885 I-25.733 J-153.243
 N470 G2 X152.544 Y156.073 I-38.655 J-150.662
 N480 G1 X157.534 Y154.334 Z-1.000
 N490 G1 X161.108 Y153.062 Z-1.000
 N500 G2 X183.667 Y143.969 I-122.738 J-337.027
 N510 G2 X205.551 Y133.371 I-145.209 J-327.734
 N520 G1 X207.732 Y132.276 Z-1.000
 N530 G1 X215.815 Y128.556 Z-1.000
 N540 G1 X219.037 Y127.150 Z-1.000
 N550 G1 X222.272 Y125.782 Z-1.000
 N560 G1 X223.416 Y125.300 Z-1.000
 N570 G1 X223.904 Y125.085 Z-1.000
 N580 G3 X237.774 Y120.073 I38.168 J83.912
 N590 G3 X252.272 Y117.334 I24.318 J88.999
 N600 G1 X253.479 Y117.248 Z-1.000

 Steve Blackmore
 --

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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-16 Thread Tomaz T .

Here is a link to g-code of full 5axis milling a section of impeller blade. I'm 
publishing it for testing purposes in simulation mode of linuxcnc, if someone 
is or will work on speed of linuxcnc execution of that kind of heavy code...

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=5361BFB76955E3C4!166authkey=!AOi2ihItAtyl8RE
   
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-12 Thread Viesturs Lācis

2013/4/12 Kenneth Lerman kenneth.ler...@se-ltd.com

 On 4/10/2013 5:01 PM, andy pugh wrote:
  On 10 April 2013 21:50, dave dengv...@charter.net wrote:
 
  No panacea anywhere in sight.
  Something I saw somewhere on the Internet (possibly a link from mah)
  was an article about different approaches.
  One very interesting idea was that every move as well as being an
  end-point also includes an end velocity
  I think that these end velocities need to propagate backwards back
  up the queue.
 
 While we are looking at this, we should be sure to consider adding jerk
 limits to the system.


Am I missing something or s-curve velocity profile, which means also
implemented jerk limits has been developed by Araisrobo and is already in
joints_axes branch? IIRC the problem for this not being ready for
mainstream is lack of spindle synchronization.

-- 
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http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-12 Thread Chris Radek

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 06:54:10PM +0300, Viesturs L??cis wrote:
 
 Am I missing something or s-curve velocity profile, which means also
 implemented jerk limits has been developed by Araisrobo and is already in
 joints_axes branch? IIRC the problem for this not being ready for
 mainstream is lack of spindle synchronization.

It is not incorporated because it was not completed as far as I
know.  Here is the last discussion in 4/2012: 

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.devel/6364/

Also be aware that just adding a jerk constraint without changing
the basic planning algorithm will make programs that are currently
being limited due to short gcode segments run slower.


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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-11 Thread Kenneth Lerman

On 4/10/2013 5:01 PM, andy pugh wrote:
 On 10 April 2013 21:50, dave dengv...@charter.net wrote:

 No panacea anywhere in sight.
 Something I saw somewhere on the Internet (possibly a link from mah)
 was an article about different approaches.
 One very interesting idea was that every move as well as being an
 end-point also includes an end velocity
 I think that these end velocities need to propagate backwards back
 up the queue.

While we are looking at this, we should be sure to consider adding jerk 
limits to the system.

Since computers are (approximately) infinitely fast and have infinite 
memory, we should be able to look ahead to the next stop point (which 
might be the end of the program).

I don't think this is rocket science. (Having worked on the Lunar Module 
project, I have a chance of recognizing rocket science.)

Ken

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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-11 Thread dave

Ah! your timing is impeccable. I just sent some references to Kent with
hope they will get added to the wiki. 

Dave

On Thu, 2013-04-11 at 18:56 -0400, Kenneth Lerman wrote:
 On 4/10/2013 5:01 PM, andy pugh wrote:
  On 10 April 2013 21:50, dave dengv...@charter.net wrote:
 
  No panacea anywhere in sight.
  Something I saw somewhere on the Internet (possibly a link from mah)
  was an article about different approaches.
  One very interesting idea was that every move as well as being an
  end-point also includes an end velocity
  I think that these end velocities need to propagate backwards back
  up the queue.
 
 While we are looking at this, we should be sure to consider adding jerk 
 limits to the system.
 
 Since computers are (approximately) infinitely fast and have infinite 
 memory, we should be able to look ahead to the next stop point (which 
 might be the end of the program).
 
 I don't think this is rocket science. (Having worked on the Lunar Module 
 project, I have a chance of recognizing rocket science.)
 
 Ken
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-11 Thread andy pugh

On 11 April 2013 23:56, Kenneth Lerman kenneth.ler...@se-ltd.com wrote:

 While we are looking at this, we should be sure to consider adding jerk
 limits to the system.

 I don't think this is rocket science.

But then, neither is rocket science:
http://youtu.be/THNPmhBl-8I

I have tried writing a jerk-limited trajectory planner, there are complexities.
It is possibly fairly easy for G-code, but on-the-fly calculations for
jogging are a bit more tricky.

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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-11 Thread dave

On Thu, 2013-04-11 at 18:56 -0400, Kenneth Lerman wrote:
 On 4/10/2013 5:01 PM, andy pugh wrote:
  On 10 April 2013 21:50, dave dengv...@charter.net wrote:
 
  No panacea anywhere in sight.
  Something I saw somewhere on the Internet (possibly a link from mah)
  was an article about different approaches.
  One very interesting idea was that every move as well as being an
  end-point also includes an end velocity
  I think that these end velocities need to propagate backwards back
  up the queue.
 
 While we are looking at this, we should be sure to consider adding jerk 
 limits to the system.
 
 Since computers are (approximately) infinitely fast and have infinite 
 memory, we should be able to look ahead to the next stop point (which 
 might be the end of the program).
H! This sounds like and idealized op amp: infinite input impedance
and freq response and zero output impedance. ;-)
 
 I don't think this is rocket science. (Having worked on the Lunar Module 
 project, I have a chance of recognizing rocket science.)
 
 Ken
I can't even come close. The closest I got was doing x-ray on the
propellant loading system on the Atlas (Fairchild AFB) and 
Titan ( Larson AFB). These were jobs between a school year and then
after graduation while waiting for the job in bio-physics to open at
WSU. Naturally, this got interrupted by the idiots building the Berlin
Wall and the subsequent panic here. If your body temp was somewhere
between 35 C and 41 C you got drafted. ;-)

Dave
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-11 Thread Kent A. Reed

On 4/11/2013 6:56 PM, Kenneth Lerman wrote:
 I don't think this is rocket science. (Having worked on the Lunar Module
 project, I have a chance of recognizing rocket science.)

Come on, Ken, the rocket-science part is dead easy. When you say F=ma 
you've said it all.

Rocket engineering, on the other hand, is the famous horse of another color.

Even with all the recent Discovery and History Channel shows about the 
manned lunar landing program to remind them, it's hard for most folk to 
understand all the blood, sweat, and tears (and fears) that went into 
the manned lunar landing program.

Regards,
Kent


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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 17:11:00 -0400, you wrote:



On Tue, Apr 9, 2013, at 05:04 PM, Steve Blackmore wrote:
 On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 19:18:13 +0200, you wrote:
 
 I tried your value, and it seem you are really close to the max 
 frequency drive for the stepper.
 
 Claude - if that were so it would not work with identical settings under
 Mach3. Same step frequency, same drivers same PC same everything.

It might be close to the limits of the EMC step pulse generator (which 
aren't neccessarily the same as those of the Mach step pulse generator).
Personally I think that is unlikely, but the test is relatively 
straightforward.
You could reduce by just a factor of two instead of ten, the key is to
drop it by a significant factor on both systems and see if the difference
is still there.  If the misbehavior is still there, that pretty much rules out
step generator limits.

Hi John - if I reduce the feed by 50% and the acceleration by 50% it
still does it. The router maximum reliable rate is 5200mm/min and is
devalued to 4000 for a margin of safety. PC only has a worse latency of
around 6500.

The router can and does manage the 3600 mm/min feed easily in both mach
and LinuxCNC, but slows horribly on line to arc or arc to line
transitions in LinuxCNC. Arc to arc is ok, as is line to line?

Steve Blackmore
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

On Tue, 9 Apr 2013 23:44:23 +0100, you wrote:

On 9 April 2013 23:14, Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net wrote:

 The problem is apparent at the first G2 move.  The machine appears to
 change feedrate between G2 and G1 moves.  Moving from one G2 line to
 another G2 line is smooth, and moving  from one G1 line to another G1
 line is smooth.  G1 moves appear to run at around 60% of the feedrate of
 the G2 moves,

That does seem to be what you are seeing. However I just tried a test
200mm move and a 32.8mm radius circle and they both took the same
length of time
Do you get the same result?
(I was running in a sim, so it might not be a valid test)

Do a line connected to an arc and vice versa then try. The slowdown is
on the transition here.

If you run the code you can actually see the slowdown on the feed
display in the gui in Axis.

Steve Blackmore
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread andy pugh

On 10 April 2013 08:24, Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net wrote:

 Do a line connected to an arc and vice versa then try. The slowdown is
 on the transition here.

 If you run the code you can actually see the slowdown on the feed
 display in the gui in Axis.

I put that down to the arcs and lines not being tangents, so there is
a sharp corner at each transition (I have checked in a CAD package,
the lines and arcs are _not_ tangents.)

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread Claude Froidevaux

Agree, for example this line to arc is NOT tangent:

N300 G1 X4.121 Y88.649 Z-1.000
N310 G1 X4.891 Y91.654 Z-1.000
N320 G2 X8.045 Y101.818 I125.643 J-33.412

I don't know what mach3 is doing to go full speed trough this, but it is 
theoretically not possible to go full continuous speed trough this 
without having infinite acceleration (assuming perfect position of course!).

Claude

Le 10.04.2013 11:22, andy pugh a écrit :
 On 10 April 2013 08:24, Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net wrote:

 Do a line connected to an arc and vice versa then try. The slowdown is
 on the transition here.

 If you run the code you can actually see the slowdown on the feed
 display in the gui in Axis.
 I put that down to the arcs and lines not being tangents, so there is
 a sharp corner at each transition (I have checked in a CAD package,
 the lines and arcs are _not_ tangents.)


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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread John Thornton

Cutting corners for sure...

On 4/10/2013 6:10 AM, Claude Froidevaux wrote:
 Agree, for example this line to arc is NOT tangent:

 N300 G1 X4.121 Y88.649 Z-1.000
 N310 G1 X4.891 Y91.654 Z-1.000
 N320 G2 X8.045 Y101.818 I125.643 J-33.412

 I don't know what mach3 is doing to go full speed trough this, but it is
 theoretically not possible to go full continuous speed trough this
 without having infinite acceleration (assuming perfect position of course!).

 Claude

 Le 10.04.2013 11:22, andy pugh a écrit :
 On 10 April 2013 08:24, Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net wrote:

 Do a line connected to an arc and vice versa then try. The slowdown is
 on the transition here.

 If you run the code you can actually see the slowdown on the feed
 display in the gui in Axis.
 I put that down to the arcs and lines not being tangents, so there is
 a sharp corner at each transition (I have checked in a CAD package,
 the lines and arcs are _not_ tangents.)

 --
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread Tomaz T .

What do you think about this guys, and their approach to high speed machining:
http://youtu.be/w7B8C9Rv-eo?t=23s

Their machines are sure capable of really high accelerations, but there is 
probably done something also on controllers side (approximations of path)?  
   
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread Daniel Rogge

I'd like to weigh in with the following test:

Running LCNC 2.5, copy the sim/axis config to your local configs, then change 
the max_acceleration for axis 0, 1, and 2  to 1.0 (previously 100):

MAX_ACCELERATION =  1.0

Then run both of the following programs:

%
(1 inch square)
G90 G54 G20
G64 P.125
G0 X0 Y0 Z0
G1 Y1 F50
X1
Y0
X0
m30



%
(1 square with rounded corners)
G90 G54 G20
G64
G0 X0 Y.25 Z0
G1 Y.75 F50
G2 X.25 Y1 I.25
G1 X.75
G2 X1 Y.75 J-.25
G1 Y.25
G2 X.75 Y0 I-.25
G1 X.25
G2 X0 Y.25 J.25
M30

The tool path on both programs is nearly identical because the square with hard 
corners is run at G64 P.125.

http://static.inky.ws/image/3839/Screenshot-rounded_square.ngc%20-%20AXIS%202.5.0%20on%20LinuxCNC-HAL-SIM-AXIS.png

If you watch the velocity display you will see that the program with only 
line-line transitions (1 square) reaches 35 inches/min - while the program 
with line-arc or arc-line transitions (1 rounded square) runs at only 26 
inches/min.

The arcs are certainly tangent here, and no one can point blame at the CAM 
software (although you're welcome to point blame at my poor hand coding style).



Daniel Rogge

Axis.ini file contents are:

# EMC controller parameters for a simulated machine.

# General note: Comments can either be preceded with a # or ; - either is
# acceptable, although # is in keeping with most linux config files.

# General section -
[EMC]

# Version of this INI file
VERSION =   $Revision$

# Name of machine, for use with display, etc.
MACHINE =   LinuxCNC-HAL-SIM-AXIS

# Debug level, 0 means no messages. See src/emc/nml_int/emcglb.h for others
#DEBUG =   0x7FFF
DEBUG = 0

# Sections for display options 
[DISPLAY]

# Name of display program, e.g., xemc
DISPLAY = axis

# Cycle time, in seconds, that display will sleep between polls
CYCLE_TIME =0.100

# Path to help file
HELP_FILE = doc/help.txt

# Initial display setting for position, RELATIVE or MACHINE
POSITION_OFFSET =   RELATIVE

# Initial display setting for position, COMMANDED or ACTUAL
POSITION_FEEDBACK = ACTUAL

# Highest value that will be allowed for feed override, 1.0 = 100%
MAX_FEED_OVERRIDE = 1.2
MAX_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE =  1.0

MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY =   1.2
DEFAULT_LINEAR_VELOCITY =   .25
# Prefix to be used
PROGRAM_PREFIX = /home/rogge/linuxcnc/nc_files

# Introductory graphic
INTRO_GRAPHIC = linuxcnc.gif
INTRO_TIME = 5

EDITOR = gedit
TOOL_EDITOR = tooledit

INCREMENTS = 1 in, 0.1 in, 10 mil, 1 mil, 1mm, .1mm, 1/8000 in

[FILTER]
PROGRAM_EXTENSION = .png,.gif,.jpg Grayscale Depth Image
PROGRAM_EXTENSION = .py Python Script

png = image-to-gcode
gif = image-to-gcode
jpg = image-to-gcode
py = python

# Task controller section -
[TASK]

# Name of task controller program, e.g., milltask
TASK =  milltask

# Cycle time, in seconds, that task controller will sleep between polls
CYCLE_TIME =0.001

# Part program interpreter section 
[RS274NGC]

# File containing interpreter variables
PARAMETER_FILE = sim.var

# Motion control section --
[EMCMOT]

EMCMOT =  motmod

# Timeout for comm to emcmot, in seconds
COMM_TIMEOUT =  1.0

# Interval between tries to emcmot, in seconds
COMM_WAIT = 0.010

# BASE_PERIOD is unused in this configuration but specified in core_sim.hal
BASE_PERIOD  =   0
# Servo task period, in nano-seconds
SERVO_PERIOD =   100

# Hardware Abstraction Layer section 
--
[HAL]

# The run script first uses halcmd to execute any HALFILE
# files, and then to execute any individual HALCMD commands.
#

# list of hal config files to run through halcmd
# files are executed in the order in which they appear
HALFILE = core_sim.hal
HALFILE = axis_manualtoolchange.hal
HALFILE = simulated_home.hal

# list of halcmd commands to execute
# commands are executed in the order in which they appear
#HALCMD =save neta

# Single file that is executed after the GUI has started.  Only supported by
# AXIS at this time (only AXIS creates a HAL component of its own)
#POSTGUI_HALFILE = test_postgui.hal

HALUI = halui

# Trajectory planner section --
[TRAJ]

AXES =  3
COORDINATES =   X Y Z
HOME =  0 0 0
LINEAR_UNITS =  inch
ANGULAR_UNITS = degree
CYCLE_TIME =0.010
DEFAULT_VELOCITY =  1.2
POSITION_FILE = position.txt
MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY =   1.2

# Axes sections ---

# First axis
[AXIS_0]

TYPE =  LINEAR
HOME =  0.000

Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread Gene Heskett

On Wednesday 10 April 2013 11:43:50 Steve Blackmore did opine:

 On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 17:11:00 -0400, you wrote:
 On Tue, Apr 9, 2013, at 05:04 PM, Steve Blackmore wrote:
  On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 19:18:13 +0200, you wrote:
  I tried your value, and it seem you are really close to the max
  frequency drive for the stepper.
  
  Claude - if that were so it would not work with identical settings
  under Mach3. Same step frequency, same drivers same PC same
  everything.
 
 It might be close to the limits of the EMC step pulse generator (which
 aren't neccessarily the same as those of the Mach step pulse
 generator). Personally I think that is unlikely, but the test is
 relatively straightforward. You could reduce by just a factor of two
 instead of ten, the key is to drop it by a significant factor on both
 systems and see if the difference is still there.  If the misbehavior
 is still there, that pretty much rules out step generator limits.
 
 Hi John - if I reduce the feed by 50% and the acceleration by 50% it
 still does it. The router maximum reliable rate is 5200mm/min and is
 devalued to 4000 for a margin of safety. PC only has a worse latency of
 around 6500.
 
 The router can and does manage the 3600 mm/min feed easily in both mach
 and LinuxCNC, but slows horribly on line to arc or arc to line
 transitions in LinuxCNC. Arc to arc is ok, as is line to line?
 
 Steve Blackmore

FWIW, I noted that despite a g64.1 P.001 at the top of the file, my carving 
of that brass handle yesterday on a 2.6.0-pre install, was also coming to a 
complete stop at those straight line to arc transitions, 4 times per loop, 
not all of which have a bunch of math between them.  So I'd guess on that 
job, it wasted a minute of the 41 it took to run the final version. I 
wasn't going that fast anyway, trying to hold down bit flex in 3/4 of a 
.125 2 flute end mill, F=5 ipm IIRC with smallish cuts in the .007 x .011 
thou range, made nice sandy brass swarf, but the stops sure were obvious.

Its doing little if any blending, but the stops also did not leave an 
obviously noticeable mark so the finish was not adversely effected.

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread Gene Heskett

On Wednesday 10 April 2013 11:58:51 andy pugh did opine:

 On 10 April 2013 08:24, Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net wrote:
  Do a line connected to an arc and vice versa then try. The slowdown is
  on the transition here.
  
  If you run the code you can actually see the slowdown on the feed
  display in the gui in Axis.
 
 I put that down to the arcs and lines not being tangents, so there is
 a sharp corner at each transition (I have checked in a CAD package,
 the lines and arcs are _not_ tangents.)

Are you saying that the g2-3 code, set to do a 180 turn, is only doing a 
179.9 turn?  Example in G91.1 relative mode, starting from x y+nn, g2 y-nn 
i0.0 j=y_radius, is not doing a fully 180 degree from top (x y+nn) to 
bottom (x y-nn) motion?

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread Kent A. Reed

On 4/10/2013 10:01 AM, Daniel Rogge wrote:
I'd like to weigh in with the following test:

Running LCNC 2.5, copy the sim/axis config to your local configs, then change
the max_acceleration for axis 0, 1, and 2 to 1.0 (previously 100):

MAX_ACCELERATION = 1.0

Then run both of the following programs:

%
(1 inch square)
G90 G54 G20
G64 P.125
G0 X0 Y0 Z0
G1 Y1 F50
X1
Y0
X0
m30

%
(1 square with rounded corners)
G90 G54 G20
G64
G0 X0 Y.25 Z0
G1 Y.75 F50
G2 X.25 Y1 I.25
G1 X.75
G2 X1 Y.75 J-.25
G1 Y.25
G2 X.75 Y0 I-.25
G1 X.25
G2 X0 Y.25 J.25
M30

The tool path on both programs is nearly identical because the square with
hard corners is run at G64 P.125.

http://static.inky.ws/image/3839/Screenshot-rounded_square.ngc%20-%20AXIS%202.5.0%20on%20LinuxCNC-HAL-SIM-AXIS.png

If you watch the velocity display you will see that the program with only
line-line transitions (1 square) reaches 35 inches/min - while the program
with line-arc or arc-line transitions (1 rounded square) runs at only 26
inches/min.

The arcs are certainly tangent here, and no one can point blame at the CAM
software (although you're welcome to point blame at my poor hand coding
style).

Daniel:

I really like that you have bounded the argument by introducing these
two simple test files and using them to compare LinuxCNC behavior to
LinuxCNC behavior.

On a computer close at hand at my desk I happen to have available a
virtual host running Ubuntu 10.04LTS and LinuxCNC2.5.2-189...(a relic of
some previous testing) so I ran your two test files. I get the same
results you do.

Just for fun, on this same computer I installed yet another virtual host
running Ubuntu 8.04LTS and EMC2 2.3.0 (installing from the old
ubuntu-8.04-desktop-emc2-aj13-i386.iso
http://dsplabs.upt.ro/%7Ejuve/emc/get.php?file=ubuntu-8.04-desktop-emc2-aj13-i386.iso).

*Again* I get the same results for your two test files: 35+ ipm for the
square and 26+ ipm for the rounded square. Evidently, this behavior
precedes 2.4.

All:

I am a total ignoramus when it comes to the trajectory planning and
motion control aspects of LinuxCNC. From my seat in the peanut gallery,
it seems there is a divide between those who believe we have a proper
set of algorithms properly implemented that have been tested
successfully and those who believe this reported behavior must mean
either the implementation is deficient or the algorithms imperfect (or
both!). So far, the two groups of discussants seem to have been talking
past each other, both in the 2011 exchanges and now.

The following questions are simply my noodling and not any attempt to
state a personal position:

Do Daniel's two files constitute a valid test? That is to say, should
one expect substantially the same behavior when each is executed?

If the answer is yes, then why isn't it the behavior the same? If the
answer is no, then why should it not be the same behavior?

Once the dust has settled I hope the subject can be explained more fully
in the LinuxCNC documentation.

For some time we have advertised constant velocity control as a
feature of EMC/LinuxCNC (usually in an About... section) but try
searching on constant velocity. Two technically meaningful pages on
the Wiki respond to this search term:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl%3FTrapezoidal_Velocity_Profile_Trajectory_Planner

and http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl%3FSimple_Tp_Notes. Pardon me,
but if this is such an important topic why is it buried?

The rest of the docs don't waste many words, as my grandmother used to
say, about feed or speed.

Just my 2cents worth.

Regards,
Kent

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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread Eric Keller

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Kent A. Reed kentallanr...@gmail.comwrote:

  From my seat in the peanut gallery,
 it seems there is a divide between those who believe we have a proper
 set of algorithms properly implemented that have been tested
 successfully and those who believe this reported behavior must mean
 either the implementation is deficient or the algorithms imperfect (or
 both!). So far, the two groups of discussants seem to have been talking
 past each other, both in the 2011 exchanges and now.


The only trajectory planning argument I am aware of is the one step
lookahead argument.  I don't know if this really is an artifact of the
one-step lookahead or not.  Seems like it might not be.  If someone came up
with a trajectory planner that worked better than the current one, I
suspect it would be made available.  So far all I see is people saying that
it really should be done and then waiting for someone to do it.  Right now,
the people that write code prefer robustness over performance, which is a
good thing in my view.

This does look like a very good test case.  If we can figure out why it
does this then it should be possible to make inprovements
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread dave

snip-snap
 All:
 
 I am a total ignoramus when it comes to the trajectory planning and 
 motion control aspects of LinuxCNC. From my seat in the peanut gallery, 
 it seems there is a divide between those who believe we have a proper 
 set of algorithms properly implemented that have been tested 
 successfully and those who believe this reported behavior must mean 
 either the implementation is deficient or the algorithms imperfect (or 
 both!). So far, the two groups of discussants seem to have been talking 
 past each other, both in the 2011 exchanges and now.
 
 The following questions are simply my noodling and not any attempt to 
 state a personal position:
 
 Do Daniel's two files constitute a valid test? That is to say, should 
 one expect substantially the same behavior when each is executed?
 
 If the answer is yes, then why isn't it the behavior the same? If the 
 answer is no, then why should it not be the same behavior?
 
 Once the dust has settled I hope the subject can be explained more fully 
 in the LinuxCNC documentation.
 
 For some time we have advertised constant velocity control as a 
 feature of EMC/LinuxCNC (usually in an About... section) but try 
 searching on constant velocity. Two technically meaningful pages on 
 the Wiki respond to this search term: 
 http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl%3FTrapezoidal_Velocity_Profile_Trajectory_Planner
  
 and http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl%3FSimple_Tp_Notes. Pardon me, 
 but if this is such an important topic why is it buried?
 
 The rest of the docs don't waste many words, as my grandmother used to 
 say, about feed or speed.
 
 Just my 2cents worth.
 
 Regards,
 Kent
Ah! Back to the future! TP has been endlessly cussed and discussed but
it is a non-trivial problem. If it was easy it would have been fixed a
long time ago. G64 p was an improvement. So much of this stems from an
early in the design process decision that linuxcnc must be able to stop
the machine at the end of each block. Les Watts tried something in
conjunction with NIST years ago but it never quite worked. I keep hoping
someone will have an epiphany that will push tp forward. (npi). 

Catting short segments into an arc can make a real difference. I suppose
if one needs to avoid line to arc transitions then lines could be
specified as arcs with a very large radius. 

No panacea anywhere in sight. 

Dave



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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread Gregg Eshelman

--- On Wed, 4/10/13, Tomaz T. tomaz_...@hotmail.com wrote:

 What do you think about this guys,
 and their approach to high speed machining:
 http://youtu.be/w7B8C9Rv-eo?t=23s
 
 Their machines are sure capable of really high
 accelerations, but there is probably done something also on
 controllers side (approximations of path)?

Probably pre-scans the tool path, finds places where arcs and lines are really 
close to but not quite tangent, says Hey, these are really close! and adjust 
for it so it can go right through the bump as if it's not there.

That's been done by at least one water jet manufacturer, their equipment 
generates a continuously varied speed/acceleration profile for the path before 
it starts the cut. 

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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread andy pugh

On 10 April 2013 15:01, Daniel Rogge dro...@tormach.com wrote:

 Running LCNC 2.5, copy the sim/axis config to your local configs, then change 
 the max_acceleration for axis 0, 1, and 2  to 1.0 (previously 100):

 MAX_ACCELERATION =  1.0

 (1 square with rounded corners)
 G90 G54 G20
 G64
 G0 X0 Y.25 Z0
 G1 Y.75 F50
 G2 X.25 Y1 I.25

This is not the same test, as far as I can see.

For an arc move the acceleration is v^2 / r, or put another way, the
max velocity in an arc is sqrt(a * r)

So, in this case, with a 1/4 radius and a 1/s^2 acceleration the max
velocity possible is 0.5/s or 30in/min.

So, you would expect some slow-down on the corners, but not as much as
is being seen.

The next limit to consider is that LinuxCNC will always try to stay
within its stopping distance due to limited lookahead.

The quarter-circles are 0.39in long. To stop at the end of that path
segment the entry speed has to be less than 52in/min so the limit
isn't there.

I think that there are two issues being reported here. The first is
that arcs run slower than lines, and I think that might be due to the
acceleration limits.

The second is a speed glitch passing between line segments and arc
segments. This remains unexplained, and I see it in sims too.

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread andy pugh

On 10 April 2013 21:50, dave dengv...@charter.net wrote:

 No panacea anywhere in sight.

Something I saw somewhere on the Internet (possibly a link from mah)
was an article about different approaches.
One very interesting idea was that every move as well as being an
end-point also includes an end velocity
I think that these end velocities need to propagate backwards back
up the queue.

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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 06:16:59 -0500, you wrote:

Cutting corners for sure...

Yes it's deviating by up to by 0.1mm as set in it's config. For LinuxCNC
to do a similar feed the deviation has to be 0.5mm?

Steve Blackmore
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 22:01:32 +0100, you wrote:

On 10 April 2013 21:50, dave dengv...@charter.net wrote:

 No panacea anywhere in sight.

Something I saw somewhere on the Internet (possibly a link from mah)
was an article about different approaches.
One very interesting idea was that every move as well as being an
end-point also includes an end velocity
I think that these end velocities need to propagate backwards back
up the queue.

I think that's what Mach does - or maybe forward in the queue :)

Steve Blackmore
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 13:56:16 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

--- On Wed, 4/10/13, Tomaz T. tomaz_...@hotmail.com wrote:

 What do you think about this guys,
 and their approach to high speed machining:
 http://youtu.be/w7B8C9Rv-eo?t=23s
 
 Their machines are sure capable of really high
 accelerations, but there is probably done something also on
 controllers side (approximations of path)?

Probably pre-scans the tool path, finds places where arcs and lines are really 
close to but not quite tangent, says Hey, these are really close! and adjust 
for it so it can go right through the bump as if it's not there.


Isn't that what G64 is supposed to do?

From the docs

G64 - without P means to keep the best speed possible, no matter how far
away from the programmed point you end up

Clearly it's not doing that.

You can see from the video that my router is capable of doing those
transitions at only 0.1mm deviation without slowing. Looks like it is
not deviating on arc/line transitions in LinuxCNC?

Steve Blackmore
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread jeremy youngs

so how far does lcnc actually look ahead?



On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net wrote:

 On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 13:56:16 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

 --- On Wed, 4/10/13, Tomaz T. tomaz_...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
  What do you think about this guys,
  and their approach to high speed machining:
  http://youtu.be/w7B8C9Rv-eo?t=23s
 
  Their machines are sure capable of really high
  accelerations, but there is probably done something also on
  controllers side (approximations of path)?
 
 Probably pre-scans the tool path, finds places where arcs and lines are
 really close to but not quite tangent, says Hey, these are really close!
 and adjust for it so it can go right through the bump as if it's not
 there.
 

 Isn't that what G64 is supposed to do?

 From the docs

 G64 - without P means to keep the best speed possible, no matter how far
 away from the programmed point you end up

 Clearly it's not doing that.

 You can see from the video that my router is capable of doing those
 transitions at only 0.1mm deviation without slowing. Looks like it is
 not deviating on arc/line transitions in LinuxCNC?

 Steve Blackmore
 --


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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 11:57:32 -0400, you wrote:

FWIW, I noted that despite a g64.1 P.001 at the top of the file, my carving 
of that brass handle yesterday on a 2.6.0-pre install, was also coming to a 
complete stop at those straight line to arc transitions, 4 times per loop, 
not all of which have a bunch of math between them.  So I'd guess on that 
job, it wasted a minute of the 41 it took to run the final version.

The time is less relevant to me than a reliable feed rate, but it sure
helps to get jobs done as quickly as possible :)

Its doing little if any blending, but the stops also did not leave an 
obviously noticeable mark so the finish was not adversely effected.

Yep - none I think. I need to test again, but I'm sure the P and Q
values if set high enough make it quicker than G64 on it own which seems
contradictory to what the manual says? 

Unfortunately feed variation can sometimes cause burning on wood. Maple
can be a pig for that at times. Quilted or curly is hard to get the feed
right, too fast, you tear chunks out, too slow and you burn it. Wood
being wood, it's often trial and error on the waste to get it just right
and the price I pay for premium timber I can't afford to have
misbehaving machines screwing it up.

Steve Blackmore
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread Gregg Eshelman

On the water jet site (I want to think it was CMC, but memory is hazy) the 
comparison between their full path pre scanning and short distance lookahead 
was that the full pre scan could adjust to things like a long straight followed 
by a series of curves and short straights by slowing down to a best possible 
average speed through the twisty section, still managing to speed up a bit 
where possible.

Short distance lookahead is always getting surprised by the next curve, causing 
rapid attempts to change speed and resulting in lower cut quality and more wear 
and tear on the machine.

Compare it to a skilled race car driver who has made a practice lap and 
committed every twist and turn to memory, planning out all the gear changes and 
how fast to go at all points along the course.

Short range lookahead is like a semi-skilled driver who has never been on the 
track before and starts the race without even a practice lap. He can see a turn 
or two ahead and has the skill to not run off the track, but will try to go as 
fast as possible all the time and is always having to stomp on the brake at 
every turn.

The skilled driver maintains a smooth speed profile through a chicane while the 
amateur comes screaming in, hits the brakes hard and has to putt through the 
curves slowly to avoid spinning off the track. 

The driver who runs the course before the race ends up lapping the track 
faster, with less wear on the consumables.

So why not have a practice lap simulation that can generate a complete 
accel/speed/decel profile for a toolpath then feed that data to LinuxCNC?

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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread Claude Zervas

I have also found problems with curve-line and line-curve transitions. My
machine is used to paint lines and uses a fourth tangential axis to keep
the brush tangent to the tool path. I get
significant decelerations/accelerations  on these transitions and it shows
up as aberrations in the paint stroke. The G code is generated using biarc
approximations and all line/curve transitions are tangential (at least to a
fairly high degree of precision.) I've tried using different G64 values but
it doesn't help much and the tool path precision gets way off.
I was going to order a 5i25 card to see if maybe improving the stepgen
performance would help, but I'm no CNC expert.
Anyway, it's good to know I'm not alone in seeing this behavior.
Thanks,
- Claude


On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com wrote:

 On the water jet site (I want to think it was CMC, but memory is hazy) the
 comparison between their full path pre scanning and short distance
 lookahead was that the full pre scan could adjust to things like a long
 straight followed by a series of curves and short straights by slowing down
 to a best possible average speed through the twisty section, still managing
 to speed up a bit where possible.

 Short distance lookahead is always getting surprised by the next curve,
 causing rapid attempts to change speed and resulting in lower cut quality
 and more wear and tear on the machine.

 Compare it to a skilled race car driver who has made a practice lap and
 committed every twist and turn to memory, planning out all the gear changes
 and how fast to go at all points along the course.

 Short range lookahead is like a semi-skilled driver who has never been on
 the track before and starts the race without even a practice lap. He can
 see a turn or two ahead and has the skill to not run off the track, but
 will try to go as fast as possible all the time and is always having to
 stomp on the brake at every turn.

 The skilled driver maintains a smooth speed profile through a chicane
 while the amateur comes screaming in, hits the brakes hard and has to putt
 through the curves slowly to avoid spinning off the track.

 The driver who runs the course before the race ends up lapping the track
 faster, with less wear on the consumables.

 So why not have a practice lap simulation that can generate a complete
 accel/speed/decel profile for a toolpath then feed that data to LinuxCNC?


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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread Jon Elson

andy pugh wrote:
 On 10 April 2013 21:50, dave dengv...@charter.net wrote:

   
 No panacea anywhere in sight.
 

 Something I saw somewhere on the Internet (possibly a link from mah)
 was an article about different approaches.
 One very interesting idea was that every move as well as being an
 end-point also includes an end velocity
 I think that these end velocities need to propagate backwards back
 up the queue.
   
Yes, this was something I proposed about a year ago, I think.  Since this
propagating backwards is unbounded, it is not something you want to be
doing in real time.  So, it might have to be done when the file is read in.
But, it should solve a number of problems, such as high speed contouring,
where there is a pass with bumpy Z moves across a surface, and then a
roughly 180 turn to scan back the other way.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread Gene Heskett

On Wednesday 10 April 2013 21:56:36 Steve Blackmore did opine:

 On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 11:57:32 -0400, you wrote:
 FWIW, I noted that despite a g64.1 P.001 at the top of the file, my
 carving of that brass handle yesterday on a 2.6.0-pre install, was
 also coming to a complete stop at those straight line to arc
 transitions, 4 times per loop, not all of which have a bunch of math
 between them.  So I'd guess on that job, it wasted a minute of the 41
 it took to run the final version.
 
 The time is less relevant to me than a reliable feed rate, but it sure
 helps to get jobs done as quickly as possible :)
 
 Its doing little if any blending, but the stops also did not leave an
 obviously noticeable mark so the finish was not adversely effected.
 
 Yep - none I think. I need to test again, but I'm sure the P and Q
 values if set high enough make it quicker than G64 on it own which seems
 contradictory to what the manual says?
 
 Unfortunately feed variation can sometimes cause burning on wood. Maple
 can be a pig for that at times. Quilted or curly is hard to get the feed
 right, too fast, you tear chunks out, too slow and you burn it. Wood
 being wood, it's often trial and error on the waste to get it just right
 and the price I pay for premium timber I can't afford to have
 misbehaving machines screwing it up.
 
 Steve Blackmore

And on my watch, cherry is even worse than maple, as it can rosin up a 
sharp saw blade and start burning even at a decent feed rate about 10 
minutes worth of cutting after you've Easy Off'd the blade with about an 
half an hours service on it.  The best blade I've found I guess I'll have 
to buy on the net, CMT has one with an ATBF tooth setup, sweetest cutting 
blade ever.  Lowes was carrying it 2 years ago, and I should have stocked 
up I guess.  You can cut an edge with that, and go straight to wiping Sam's 
Stuff on it, its that smooth.

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread Jon Elson

jeremy youngs wrote:
 so how far does lcnc actually look ahead?
   
One block!  It always operates at a speed such that it can come to a full
stop on the next G-code block.  Some users who do high-speed
contouring need more lookahead, and then it becomes arbitrary
how far ahead you have to look.  I proposed a scheme a long time
ago where you would look ahead and mark points where you needed
to slow down to avoid exceeding the machine's acceleration limits,
then run backward through the program to a point where the slowdown
needed to begin.  It effectively would add an F word on every block,
even when the actual G-code didn't specify one.  I also posited
that this couldn't be done in real time as the distance back you had
to go to begin the slowdown was arbitrary.  But, such an operation
doesn't sound extremely difficult.  Basically, you don't do anything
different until you spot a block where the speed needs to be reduced
below the commanded feedrate, then you have to run back to put
in the lowered speed.  Maintaining a queue of past moves that
runs back for 100 or so blocks might make it easier to figure out
where the slowdown needs to begin.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-10 Thread jeremy youngs

wow i have not used any high speed paths on my mill as its top is only 60
ipm .
so i havent noticed this , but being that mastercam does exactly as you
staed above i do not know if it will be an issue unless contouring .
although all the programming i do at work tends to be high speed paths on
machines with infinite look aheads i am certain that as my machine evolves
to a higher level of performance im likey to see issues with the one block
look ahead .
now as i really do not wish to consider this a gripe what would it take to
implement infinite look ahead ?
I ask this as i prepare to move everything back to mo and see this machine
actually produce for me instead of slowly get better . And i intend on
doing some serious 3d profiling it could be an issue.
in light of all else i do not know what the look ahead in mach is but it is
highly likely this is the observed concern.
thanx for the response jon


On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:06 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:

 jeremy youngs wrote:
  so how far does lcnc actually look ahead?
 
 One block!  It always operates at a speed such that it can come to a full
 stop on the next G-code block.  Some users who do high-speed
 contouring need more lookahead, and then it becomes arbitrary
 how far ahead you have to look.  I proposed a scheme a long time
 ago where you would look ahead and mark points where you needed
 to slow down to avoid exceeding the machine's acceleration limits,
 then run backward through the program to a point where the slowdown
 needed to begin.  It effectively would add an F word on every block,
 even when the actual G-code didn't specify one.  I also posited
 that this couldn't be done in real time as the distance back you had
 to go to begin the slowdown was arbitrary.  But, such an operation
 doesn't sound extremely difficult.  Basically, you don't do anything
 different until you spot a block where the speed needs to be reduced
 below the commanded feedrate, then you have to run back to put
 in the lowered speed.  Maintaining a queue of past moves that
 runs back for 100 or so blocks might make it easier to figure out
 where the slowdown needs to begin.

 Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-09 Thread Viesturs Lācis

2013/4/9 Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net

 On Sun, 7 Apr 2013 10:21:11 -0500, you wrote:

 On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 10:13:11AM +0100, Steve Blackmore wrote:
 
  CV in LinuxCNC still does not work well. Have a look at this
 
  http://youtu.be/ph_IVXg1C9Y
 
 Please share your gcode and your full config directory.

 Chris

 Hal file
 http://pastebin.com/GP8BNTVR

 ini file
 http://pastebin.com/keXTHWyn




Both of these files are generated by stepconf wizard back in 2009.
And there are some things, like PROGRAM_PREFIX = /home/steve/emc2/nc_files
and INTRO_GRAPHIC = emc2.gif, which clearly show that You are not using
2.5.x version; even more -  if I remember correctly, NML_FILE = emc.nml was
removed from INI config since 2.4.0, so I would speculate that You are
using 2.3.x or something even older.
Am I really missing something or are You complaining about really old
version of LinuxCNC?

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-09 Thread andy pugh

On 9 April 2013 09:07, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:

 Am I really missing something or are You complaining about really old
 version of LinuxCNC?

Possibly, but I don't think that the motion system has changed.

-- 
atp
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-09 Thread Viesturs Lācis

2013/4/9 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com

On 9 April 2013 09:07, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:

Am I really missing something or are You complaining about really old
version of LinuxCNC?

Possibly, but I don't think that the motion system has changed.

That is what I also thought as I did not see anything related mentioned in
changelog.

It is just that it has been mentioned so many times here on mailing list -
in case of unsolvable errors on old versions first step is to update to
latest-and-greatest, try again as You may never know. Just like in the
other thread about custom M command used to reload g-code file, Seb posted
a link a discussion in forum, where there is this post:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/40-subroutines-and-ngcgui/26290-subroutine-stops-without-warning#31744
And it says that LinuxCNC does not jump back to joint mode after executing
mdi command from vcp button through halui, which would answer the issue
that was brought up by Tomaz in yet another thread, so I am going to check
that out.
Sorry for off-topic, what I am trying to say: there is only one way to find
out for sure, if particular issue has been fixed in newer release...

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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-09 Thread andy pugh

On 8 April 2013 22:57, Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net wrote:

 ini file
 http://pastebin.com/keXTHWyn

I don't really have the tools here to analyse this, but a few observations.

At 800mm/sec2 accel and 1200mm/min traverse speed the minimum arc
radius is 0.5mm.

The circular moves do not appear to be tangent to the straight lines.
I wonder if they were meant to be? I wonder if Mach and LinuxCNC are
taking a different approach to blending the corners?

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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-09 Thread Claude Froidevaux

I tried your value, and it seem you are really close to the max 
frequency drive for the stepper.

Can you try to change scale on all 3 axis (divide bay 10) and check that 
the total time is still the same or not ? this will help to understand 
if this a trajectory interpolation limitation or a max stepper pulse 
rate limitation.

SCALE = 400.0   -- SCALE = 40.0   (this shall not be a mechanical 
problem to try, as move will be 10x smaller)

Claude


Le 08.04.2013 23:57, Steve Blackmore a écrit :
 On Sun, 7 Apr 2013 10:21:11 -0500, you wrote:

 On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 10:13:11AM +0100, Steve Blackmore wrote:
 CV in LinuxCNC still does not work well. Have a look at this

 http://youtu.be/ph_IVXg1C9Y
 Please share your gcode and your full config directory.
 Chris

 Hal file
 http://pastebin.com/GP8BNTVR

 ini file
 http://pastebin.com/keXTHWyn

 Thanks

 Steve Blackmore
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 19:18:13 +0200, you wrote:

I tried your value, and it seem you are really close to the max 
frequency drive for the stepper.

Claude - if that were so it would not work with identical settings under
Mach3. Same step frequency, same drivers same PC same everything.


Steve Blackmore
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

2013-04-09 Thread John Kasunich



On Tue, Apr 9, 2013, at 05:04 PM, Steve Blackmore wrote:
 On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 19:18:13 +0200, you wrote:
 
 I tried your value, and it seem you are really close to the max 
 frequency drive for the stepper.
 
 Claude - if that were so it would not work with identical settings under
 Mach3. Same step frequency, same drivers same PC same everything.

It might be close to the limits of the EMC step pulse generator (which 
aren't neccessarily the same as those of the Mach step pulse generator).
Personally I think that is unlikely, but the test is relatively straightforward.
You could reduce by just a factor of two instead of ten, the key is to
drop it by a significant factor on both systems and see if the difference
is still there.  If the misbehavior is still there, that pretty much rules out
step generator limits.

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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

On Tue, 9 Apr 2013 09:48:33 +0100, you wrote:

On 9 April 2013 09:07, Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:

 Am I really missing something or are You complaining about really old
 version of LinuxCNC?

Possibly, but I don't think that the motion system has changed.

I am using the latest version!  The bug appeared with V2.4 and is still
there. Possibly when changes were made to G64 ??

Maybe this one ?

interpreter: G64 P- Q- specifies motion and naive cam tolerances
separately  

The stepconf was done originally with V2.3

Steve Blackmore
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV

On Tue, 9 Apr 2013 11:07:22 +0300, you wrote:


Both of these files are generated by stepconf wizard back in 2009.
And there are some things, like PROGRAM_PREFIX = /home/steve/emc2/nc_files
and INTRO_GRAPHIC = emc2.gif, which clearly show that You are not using
2.5.x version;

Clearly it shows no such thing - only those files were produced in
2009..

 even more -  if I remember correctly, NML_FILE = emc.nml was
removed from INI config since 2.4.0, so I would speculate that You are
using 2.3.x or something even older.

Don't speculate :)

Am I really missing something or are You complaining about really old
version of LinuxCNC?

Yes you are missing something, I am using 2.5.2 and it has been flakey
since 2.4.

Steve Blackmore
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Re: [Emc-users] Poor CV