Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO, OT but related to topic

[N]

A dead mans grip would had been good. This is one of the few cases there I 
would trust software as an active signal passing a rather complex chain 
sequence is needed to get things moving, this have less to do with the software 
and more with the hardware since it's impossible to check if it might brake and 
what happen.

> A movie was made based on this one, but of course it had to change a bunch of 
> stuff when sticking to the real details would have been plenty dramatic.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSX__incident 
> 
> On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 6:30:36 AM MST, N 
>  wrote:  
>  > On 02/07/2020 11:43 AM, N wrote:
> > > Are however not sure the westinghouse system is better 
> > > there pressure is loaded then breaks are not used. First 
> > > time I heard about the accident there an oil train have 
> > > crashed then driver was sleeping and left engine on 
> > > locomotive running I thought driver was drunk. Later 
> > > however I learned fire department put out fire and did not 
> > > know it should be running to keep pressure up, this system 
> > > is still allowed? Or I got it wrong?
> > Yes, the catastrophe was in Canada where a freight train 
> > loaded with oil tank cars was parked on a weekend, the 
> > locomotive engines were left running so the parking brake 
> > would continue to hold.  There was no crew on the train.  
> > One of the locomotives caught fire, the fire crew was called 
> > and put it out, and they shut off both locomotive engines.  
> > About 8 hours later the air tanks leaked down, and the train 
> > rolled downhill and crashed on a curve, essentially burning 
> > an entire small town to the ground.
> > 
> > As far as I know, the air brake system on trains has not 
> > been changed very much in the last hundred years, it was 
> > used on steam locomotives before Diesels.
> 
> Have seen example on youtube there a canadian train break in two there breaks 
> are automatically applied on the last wagons so they stop. Have also seen 
> some movies/examples of runaway train from USA but do not think this is a big 
> problem in other countries. Tried to find information on train brakes in 
> Sweden, compressed air is used to release break, think a spring is used to 
> apply brake but failed to find information. I however know there is some kind 
> of system to realese brakes so they could roll on there own then split and 
> building new trains, it is common a small hill is used for this to get wagons 
> slowly rolling, there is a switch so they could not get out onto ordinary 
> track in this case, maybe some other limitation.  
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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO, OT but related to topic

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

A movie was made based on this one, but of course it had to change a bunch of 
stuff when sticking to the real details would have been plenty dramatic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSX__incident 

On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 6:30:36 AM MST, N  
wrote:  
 > On 02/07/2020 11:43 AM, N wrote:
> > Are however not sure the westinghouse system is better 
> > there pressure is loaded then breaks are not used. First 
> > time I heard about the accident there an oil train have 
> > crashed then driver was sleeping and left engine on 
> > locomotive running I thought driver was drunk. Later 
> > however I learned fire department put out fire and did not 
> > know it should be running to keep pressure up, this system 
> > is still allowed? Or I got it wrong?
> Yes, the catastrophe was in Canada where a freight train 
> loaded with oil tank cars was parked on a weekend, the 
> locomotive engines were left running so the parking brake 
> would continue to hold.  There was no crew on the train.  
> One of the locomotives caught fire, the fire crew was called 
> and put it out, and they shut off both locomotive engines.  
> About 8 hours later the air tanks leaked down, and the train 
> rolled downhill and crashed on a curve, essentially burning 
> an entire small town to the ground.
> 
> As far as I know, the air brake system on trains has not 
> been changed very much in the last hundred years, it was 
> used on steam locomotives before Diesels.

Have seen example on youtube there a canadian train break in two there breaks 
are automatically applied on the last wagons so they stop. Have also seen some 
movies/examples of runaway train from USA but do not think this is a big 
problem in other countries. Tried to find information on train brakes in 
Sweden, compressed air is used to release break, think a spring is used to 
apply brake but failed to find information. I however know there is some kind 
of system to realese brakes so they could roll on there own then split and 
building new trains, it is common a small hill is used for this to get wagons 
slowly rolling, there is a switch so they could not get out onto ordinary track 
in this case, maybe some other limitation.  
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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO, OT but related to topic

[Robert Murphy]

I think you are referring to a hump yard, usually there are retarders, one on 
each rail that slows the rolling stock. A very sophisticated setup in this 
modern era.

Composed with my Crayons 

On 9 Feb 2020, at 00:27, N  wrote:

>>> On 02/07/2020 11:43 AM, N wrote:
>>> Are however not sure the westinghouse system is better 
>>> there pressure is loaded then breaks are not used. First 
>>> time I heard about the accident there an oil train have 
>>> crashed then driver was sleeping and left engine on 
>>> locomotive running I thought driver was drunk. Later 
>>> however I learned fire department put out fire and did not 
>>> know it should be running to keep pressure up, this system 
>>> is still allowed? Or I got it wrong?
>> Yes, the catastrophe was in Canada where a freight train 
>> loaded with oil tank cars was parked on a weekend, the 
>> locomotive engines were left running so the parking brake 
>> would continue to hold.  There was no crew on the train.  
>> One of the locomotives caught fire, the fire crew was called 
>> and put it out, and they shut off both locomotive engines.  
>> About 8 hours later the air tanks leaked down, and the train 
>> rolled downhill and crashed on a curve, essentially burning 
>> an entire small town to the ground.
>> 
>> As far as I know, the air brake system on trains has not 
>> been changed very much in the last hundred years, it was 
>> used on steam locomotives before Diesels.
> 
> Have seen example on youtube there a canadian train break in two there breaks 
> are automatically applied on the last wagons so they stop. Have also seen 
> some movies/examples of runaway train from USA but do not think this is a big 
> problem in other countries. Tried to find information on train brakes in 
> Sweden, compressed air is used to release break, think a spring is used to 
> apply brake but failed to find information. I however know there is some kind 
> of system to realese brakes so they could roll on there own then split and 
> building new trains, it is common a small hill is used for this to get wagons 
> slowly rolling, there is a switch so they could not get out onto ordinary 
> track in this case, maybe some other limitation.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO, OT but related to topic

[N]

> On 02/07/2020 11:43 AM, N wrote:
> > Are however not sure the westinghouse system is better 
> > there pressure is loaded then breaks are not used. First 
> > time I heard about the accident there an oil train have 
> > crashed then driver was sleeping and left engine on 
> > locomotive running I thought driver was drunk. Later 
> > however I learned fire department put out fire and did not 
> > know it should be running to keep pressure up, this system 
> > is still allowed? Or I got it wrong?
> Yes, the catastrophe was in Canada where a freight train 
> loaded with oil tank cars was parked on a weekend, the 
> locomotive engines were left running so the parking brake 
> would continue to hold.  There was no crew on the train.  
> One of the locomotives caught fire, the fire crew was called 
> and put it out, and they shut off both locomotive engines.  
> About 8 hours later the air tanks leaked down, and the train 
> rolled downhill and crashed on a curve, essentially burning 
> an entire small town to the ground.
> 
> As far as I know, the air brake system on trains has not 
> been changed very much in the last hundred years, it was 
> used on steam locomotives before Diesels.

Have seen example on youtube there a canadian train break in two there breaks 
are automatically applied on the last wagons so they stop. Have also seen some 
movies/examples of runaway train from USA but do not think this is a big 
problem in other countries. Tried to find information on train brakes in 
Sweden, compressed air is used to release break, think a spring is used to 
apply brake but failed to find information. I however know there is some kind 
of system to realese brakes so they could roll on there own then split and 
building new trains, it is common a small hill is used for this to get wagons 
slowly rolling, there is a switch so they could not get out onto ordinary track 
in this case, maybe some other limitation.



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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO, OT but related to topic

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 07 February 2020 23:09:46 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 02/07/2020 11:43 AM, N wrote:
> > Are however not sure the westinghouse system is better
> > there pressure is loaded then breaks are not used. First
> > time I heard about the accident there an oil train have
> > crashed then driver was sleeping and left engine on
> > locomotive running I thought driver was drunk. Later
> > however I learned fire department put out fire and did not
> > know it should be running to keep pressure up, this system
> > is still allowed? Or I got it wrong?
>
> Yes, the catastrophe was in Canada where a freight train
> loaded with oil tank cars was parked on a weekend, the
> locomotive engines were left running so the parking brake
> would continue to hold.  There was no crew on the train.
> One of the locomotives caught fire, the fire crew was called
> and put it out, and they shut off both locomotive engines.
> About 8 hours later the air tanks leaked down, and the train
> rolled downhill and crashed on a curve, essentially burning
> an entire small town to the ground.
>
> As far as I know, the air brake system on trains has not
> been changed very much in the last hundred years, it was
> used on steam locomotives before Diesels.
>
> Jon
>
I think you could probably add another 40 or 50 years Jon, time flies 
when we're having fun.  We have some trackage here running east out of 
Elkins that still needs a Shay or 2 to pull the grades, and I can recall 
driving past a parked, cold Shay with tender and noting every wheel had 
a parking wedge under the downhill side of it. Biggest problem with the 
Shay is its been known to get in a bind on short corners and either 
derail or break its simple u-joints in the drive shaft. Hypnotizing to 
watch one coming up the hill, might get down to 2 or 3 miles an hour but 
they can keep it moving where a normal loco can't find a bite on the 
tracks even with the sanders running.  An amazing machine, built for one 
purpose, to climb a hill.
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO, OT but related to topic

[Jon Elson]

On 02/07/2020 11:43 AM, N wrote:
Are however not sure the westinghouse system is better 
there pressure is loaded then breaks are not used. First 
time I heard about the accident there an oil train have 
crashed then driver was sleeping and left engine on 
locomotive running I thought driver was drunk. Later 
however I learned fire department put out fire and did not 
know it should be running to keep pressure up, this system 
is still allowed? Or I got it wrong?
Yes, the catastrophe was in Canada where a freight train 
loaded with oil tank cars was parked on a weekend, the 
locomotive engines were left running so the parking brake 
would continue to hold.  There was no crew on the train.  
One of the locomotives caught fire, the fire crew was called 
and put it out, and they shut off both locomotive engines.  
About 8 hours later the air tanks leaked down, and the train 
rolled downhill and crashed on a curve, essentially burning 
an entire small town to the ground.


As far as I know, the air brake system on trains has not 
been changed very much in the last hundred years, it was 
used on steam locomotives before Diesels.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[Les Newell]

Hi John,

The mb2hal config file is standard ini format, the same as your config 
ini file. As you can specify the ini file it allows you to use either 
the config ini file or a separate file. It is not in any way compatible 
with hal files.


Les


Then if it's designed to be included into a .hal file why not have it 
be a .hal or .inc? Aside from the fact that it might break millions 
upon millions of LinuxCNC installations.


John





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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO --> reltime serial but Ethercat worse

[N]

> > With how cheap realtime i/o is - I don't see the a lure of modbus.
> 
> Modbus non-realtime should be plenty fast enough for spindle control 
> unless you are doing position control of the spindle. I'm not sure about 
> RTAI but if you are using preempt-rt mb2hal should be pretty close to 
> real time.

Think preempt-rt is good enough for ordinary UART but expect exception for 
example if connected via USB.

However think Ethernet is not perfect, maybe only small delay minutes or so in 
between but still not perfect. Have done hal delay test and it's fine. If I 
remember correct there are however some delay then using Ethernet minutes in 
between or so, this might be because other Linux processes related to network 
is running so something else sent sometimes, did not yet have time to check 
this carefully. In doubt delay is long enough to have any effect on part 
quality.


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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO, OT but related to topic

[N]

> My 2 cents.  For some things non-realtime i/o is fine.  I have seen too
> many times where someone is maybe controlling a spindle and wonders why a
> change in direction takes so long and or isn't consistent.  Once they
> switch over to something realtime (+/-10v or pwm) the issue goes away.

Heard story about delays of brakes on trains then toilet started to get full 
there was a switch toggling but not sure if it was true, probably need a 
passive system there signal must arrive within some specified time or brakes 
are applied. Are however not sure the westinghouse system is better there 
pressure is loaded then breaks are not used. First time I heard about the 
accident there an oil train have crashed then driver was sleeping and left 
engine on locomotive running I thought driver was drunk. Later however I 
learned fire department put out fire and did not know it should be running to 
keep pressure up, this system is still allowed? Or I got it wrong?


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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[John Dammeyer]

Then if it's designed to be included into a .hal file why not have it be a .hal 
or .inc?  Aside from the fact that it might break millions upon millions of 
LinuxCNC installations.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: February-07-20 5:30 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO
> 
> On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 at 12:42, Les Newell  wrote:
> 
> > You can specify the machine config ini file if you wish. The mb2hal ini
> > file namespace does not conflict with anything else in the machine config.
> 
> That seems like a good reason for it to be a .ini file rather than
> (say) a .mb file then.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Les Newell [mailto:les.new...@fastmail.co.uk]
> Sent: February-07-20 4:40 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO
> 
> > With how cheap realtime i/o is - I don't see the a lure of modbus.
> 
> Modbus non-realtime should be plenty fast enough for spindle control
> unless you are doing position control of the spindle. I'm not sure about
> RTAI but if you are using preempt-rt mb2hal should be pretty close to
> real time.
> 
> It's also great for user interface stuff. For instance both my mill and
> lathe have Modbus front panels with 20+ buttons, numerous indicator
> lights as well as a number of analog controls.
> 
> For jog wheel I have to agree, a direct realtime input is the way to go.
> Modbus jog wheel should work but it won't be as smooth.
> 
> > It's a bit unusual in that mb2hal consumes an INI file, but it is not
> > the same INI file as defines the LinuxCNC machine config.
> You can specify the machine config ini file if you wish. The mb2hal ini
> file namespace does not conflict with anything else in the machine config.
> 
> Les
> 

Under MACH3 now that I finally have the ModIO MPG working I can report that 
it's not as smooth as my USB based pendant.  But then 56k baud isn't the same 
at 6Mbps that USB uses.

 I would imagine if I connected the quadrature MPG knob directly to a second 
parallel port I'd also see better response in MACH3.

But that requires adding a low profile PP board.  The one I have I works under 
WIN-7 but not WIN-XP (it's just too old and no drivers exist) and IIRC, I had 
problems discovering it under LinuxCNC too.  Hence the purchase of the the MESA 
7i92H.

Anyway, first step is just to get the MODBus stuff working and the ModIO is as 
good a product as any.  Long term I want a CAN bus on my mill for tool changing 
etc.  But that's because I have been using CAN bus for almost 30 years and I 
believe still have the record for the largest one shown on my home page (over 
1500 nodes).
http://www.autoartisans.com/

John





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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[Todd Zuercher]

Probably not, since it is more or less just an example configuration file with 
significant annotation.

I was able to muddle my way through it to set up a machine.  But I would find 
it difficult to improve upon it.  I think the problem is less with Mb2hal, than 
it is just the scattered un organized nature of configuring Modbus devises in 
general.  The real difficulty is gathering, digesting, and using the required 
documentation for your Modbus device.  Every one is different and each has 
their own quirks and idiosyncrasies that have to be figured out.  Mostly the 
real trick is figuring out how pick out and manipulate individual bits or 
partial words from larger register words.  If your device doesn't have good 
Modbus documentation, it is almost hopeless to figure it out.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2020 2:03 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: February-06-20 10:29 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO
>
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 18:23, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
>
> > So maybe what is needed is a "MODbus and LinuxCNC for Dummies"
> document that takes one through the steps of connecting a MODbus 
> device like a ModIO or a Servo Drive with published MODBus register 
> descriptions all through to using them in the HAL and even including 
> display information on the Axis Screen.
>
> Have you seen: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/drivers/mb2hal.html
>
Yes.
Option 3 looks interesting.
If someone submitted that page to a magazine as an article on how to use MB2HAL 
do you think an editor would publish it as is?

Whether it be Elektor Magazine, Circuit Cellar Magazine, Nuts and Volts,  
Everyday Practical Electronics, Home Shop Machiist, Model Engineer's Workshop, 
etc.  the format leaves way too much to be learned in other places.

The page doesn't stand alone.  So it's a great reference for those who already 
know how to do it.  Not so much for someone who doesn't.  And once one knows 
how to do it, it's hard to take a step backwards to when they didn't.

For example from that document.
#Using HAL_MODULE_NAME=mb2hal or nothing (default): loadusr -W mb2hal 
config=config_file.ini

Is the loadusr command entered in the HAL file, the INI file or entered on the 
command line.  Should LinuxCNC be running if it's entered on the command line?

If the example config file named mb2hal.ini?  I see loadrt commands in the .hal 
file for my parallel port implementation.  I don't see any load files of type 
ini.

In my parallel port hal file I have the line.
# -- Modbus support --
#loadrt classicladder_rt numPhysInputs=15 numPhysOutputs=15 numS32in=10 
numS32out=10 numFloatIn=10 numFloatOut=10

Now what?

The display on the RHS of the AXIS screen in that page I referenced I believe 
is created with the XML file.  That's missing too.

See what I mean.  Way more questions than answers.

John


> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is 
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and 
> lunatics."
>   George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 at 12:42, Les Newell  wrote:

> You can specify the machine config ini file if you wish. The mb2hal ini
> file namespace does not conflict with anything else in the machine config.

That seems like a good reason for it to be a .ini file rather than
(say) a .mb file then.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[Les Newell]

With how cheap realtime i/o is - I don't see the a lure of modbus.


Modbus non-realtime should be plenty fast enough for spindle control 
unless you are doing position control of the spindle. I'm not sure about 
RTAI but if you are using preempt-rt mb2hal should be pretty close to 
real time.


It's also great for user interface stuff. For instance both my mill and 
lathe have Modbus front panels with 20+ buttons, numerous indicator 
lights as well as a number of analog controls.


For jog wheel I have to agree, a direct realtime input is the way to go. 
Modbus jog wheel should work but it won't be as smooth.



It's a bit unusual in that mb2hal consumes an INI file, but it is not
the same INI file as defines the LinuxCNC machine config.
You can specify the machine config ini file if you wish. The mb2hal ini 
file namespace does not conflict with anything else in the machine config.


Les



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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[Sam Sokolik]

My 2 cents.  For some things non-realtime i/o is fine.  I have seen too
many times where someone is maybe controlling a spindle and wonders why a
change in direction takes so long and or isn't consistent.  Once they
switch over to something realtime (+/-10v or pwm) the issue goes away.

With how cheap realtime i/o is - I don't see the a lure of modbus.   Once
you have a jog wheel hooked directly into motion in realtime - you will
never go back.  The only non-realtime i/o I have on our machines is an
arduino measuring spindle temp.  (OK if slow)

Sam
(Realtime snob)

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020, 2:23 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 19:05, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> > If someone submitted that page to a magazine as an article on how to use
> MB2HAL do you think an editor would publish it as is?
>
> Not a chance. It is certainly one of the worst manual pages.
>
> > #Using HAL_MODULE_NAME=mb2hal or nothing (default): loadusr -W mb2hal
> config=config_file.ini
>
> > Is the loadusr command entered in the HAL file, the INI file or entered
> on the command line.  Should LinuxCNC be running if it's entered on the
> command line?
>
> It should be in the HAL file (but only the section after the colon).
> But, actually, it would work at the command-line too, if LinuxCNC was
> running. but then it would need to be
> halcmd loadusr 
> (though if you use halcmd -kf to join a running HAL session, then you
> can omit the "halcmd" and also benefit from tab-completion of commands
> and pin names.
> This is all documented, but it would take me a while to find it all,
> and I know where to look and, more importantly, that it exists to look
> for)
>
> > If the example config file named mb2hal.ini?  I see loadrt commands in
> the .hal file for my parallel port implementation.  I don't see any load
> files of type ini.
>
> It's a bit unusual in that mb2hal consumes an INI file, but it is not
> the same INI file as defines the LinuxCNC machine config.
>
> loadusr -> load a user-space HAL component
> -W -> wait for it to declare that loading has completed before
> continuing with the HAL
> config=config_file.ini -> configure the Modbus link according to the
> definitions in the config_file.ini file.
>
> I have never used mb2hal, so don't really feel qualified to improve
> the docs for the module.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 19:05, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> If someone submitted that page to a magazine as an article on how to use 
> MB2HAL do you think an editor would publish it as is?

Not a chance. It is certainly one of the worst manual pages.

> #Using HAL_MODULE_NAME=mb2hal or nothing (default): loadusr -W mb2hal 
> config=config_file.ini

> Is the loadusr command entered in the HAL file, the INI file or entered on 
> the command line.  Should LinuxCNC be running if it's entered on the command 
> line?

It should be in the HAL file (but only the section after the colon).
But, actually, it would work at the command-line too, if LinuxCNC was
running. but then it would need to be
halcmd loadusr 
(though if you use halcmd -kf to join a running HAL session, then you
can omit the "halcmd" and also benefit from tab-completion of commands
and pin names.
This is all documented, but it would take me a while to find it all,
and I know where to look and, more importantly, that it exists to look
for)

> If the example config file named mb2hal.ini?  I see loadrt commands in the 
> .hal file for my parallel port implementation.  I don't see any load files of 
> type ini.

It's a bit unusual in that mb2hal consumes an INI file, but it is not
the same INI file as defines the LinuxCNC machine config.

loadusr -> load a user-space HAL component
-W -> wait for it to declare that loading has completed before
continuing with the HAL
config=config_file.ini -> configure the Modbus link according to the
definitions in the config_file.ini file.

I have never used mb2hal, so don't really feel qualified to improve
the docs for the module.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[Kirk Wallace]

I am currently building an off-grid solar generation and storage system 
which have controllers using Modbus, so I may be active with Modbus 
again soon. If so, I will try to address your issues below and add any 
new information to the LinuxCNC wiki as I get it. Spring tends to need 
much weed whacking, brush clearing and yard equipment maintenance, so no 
promises.


On 2/6/20 11:02 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:




-Original Message-
From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
Sent: February-06-20 10:29 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 18:23, John Dammeyer 
wrote:


So maybe what is needed is a "MODbus and LinuxCNC for Dummies"

document that takes one through the steps of connecting a MODbus device
like a ModIO or a Servo Drive with published MODBus register descriptions all
through to using them in the HAL and even including display information on
the Axis Screen.

Have you seen: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/drivers/mb2hal.html


Yes.
Option 3 looks interesting.
If someone submitted that page to a magazine as an article on how to use MB2HAL 
do you think an editor would publish it as is?

Whether it be Elektor Magazine, Circuit Cellar Magazine, Nuts and Volts,  
Everyday Practical Electronics, Home Shop Machiist, Model Engineer's Workshop, 
etc.  the format leaves way too much to be learned in other places.

The page doesn't stand alone.  So it's a great reference for those who already 
know how to do it.  Not so much for someone who doesn't.  And once one knows 
how to do it, it's hard to take a step backwards to when they didn't.

For example from that document.
#Using HAL_MODULE_NAME=mb2hal or nothing (default): loadusr -W mb2hal 
config=config_file.ini

Is the loadusr command entered in the HAL file, the INI file or entered on the 
command line.  Should LinuxCNC be running if it's entered on the command line?

If the example config file named mb2hal.ini?  I see loadrt commands in the .hal 
file for my parallel port implementation.  I don't see any load files of type 
ini.

In my parallel port hal file I have the line.
# -- Modbus support --
#loadrt classicladder_rt numPhysInputs=15 numPhysOutputs=15 numS32in=10 
numS32out=10 numFloatIn=10 numFloatOut=10

Now what?

The display on the RHS of the AXIS screen in that page I referenced I believe 
is created with the XML file.  That's missing too.

See what I mean.  Way more questions than answers.

John



--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
� George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: February-06-20 10:29 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO
> 
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 18:23, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > So maybe what is needed is a "MODbus and LinuxCNC for Dummies"
> document that takes one through the steps of connecting a MODbus device
> like a ModIO or a Servo Drive with published MODBus register descriptions all
> through to using them in the HAL and even including display information on
> the Axis Screen.
> 
> Have you seen: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/drivers/mb2hal.html
> 
Yes.
Option 3 looks interesting.
If someone submitted that page to a magazine as an article on how to use MB2HAL 
do you think an editor would publish it as is?

Whether it be Elektor Magazine, Circuit Cellar Magazine, Nuts and Volts,  
Everyday Practical Electronics, Home Shop Machiist, Model Engineer's Workshop, 
etc.  the format leaves way too much to be learned in other places.  

The page doesn't stand alone.  So it's a great reference for those who already 
know how to do it.  Not so much for someone who doesn't.  And once one knows 
how to do it, it's hard to take a step backwards to when they didn't.

For example from that document.
#Using HAL_MODULE_NAME=mb2hal or nothing (default): loadusr -W mb2hal 
config=config_file.ini

Is the loadusr command entered in the HAL file, the INI file or entered on the 
command line.  Should LinuxCNC be running if it's entered on the command line?

If the example config file named mb2hal.ini?  I see loadrt commands in the .hal 
file for my parallel port implementation.  I don't see any load files of type 
ini.

In my parallel port hal file I have the line.
# -- Modbus support --
#loadrt classicladder_rt numPhysInputs=15 numPhysOutputs=15 numS32in=10 
numS32out=10 numFloatIn=10 numFloatOut=10

Now what?

The display on the RHS of the AXIS screen in that page I referenced I believe 
is created with the XML file.  That's missing too.

See what I mean.  Way more questions than answers.

John


> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[Stuart Stevenson]

I thought that is what the website is supposed to be. At least, I have been
able to use it.

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020, 12:31 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 18:23, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> > So maybe what is needed is a "MODbus and LinuxCNC for Dummies" document
> that takes one through the steps of connecting a MODbus device like a ModIO
> or a Servo Drive with published MODBus register descriptions all through to
> using them in the HAL and even including display information on the Axis
> Screen.
>
> Have you seen: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/drivers/mb2hal.html
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 18:23, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> So maybe what is needed is a "MODbus and LinuxCNC for Dummies" document that 
> takes one through the steps of connecting a MODbus device like a ModIO or a 
> Servo Drive with published MODBus register descriptions all through to using 
> them in the HAL and even including display information on the Axis Screen.

Have you seen: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/drivers/mb2hal.html

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[John Dammeyer]

So maybe what is needed is a "MODbus and LinuxCNC for Dummies" document that 
takes one through the steps of connecting a MODbus device like a ModIO or a 
Servo Drive with published MODBus register descriptions all through to using 
them in the HAL and even including display information on the Axis Screen.

I'm probably going to write up something like that so I hope everyone will be 
patient with me.  There are going to be a lot of dumb questions that later on 
will seem incredibly dumb but initially need to be asked.

I'm sure the information is out there but it appears to be all over the place 
and much of it out of date.

Thanks
John

> -Original Message-
> From: Kirk Wallace [mailto:kwall...@wallacecompany.com]
> Sent: February-06-20 2:10 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO
> 
> This might help but it may be out of date as well:
> > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/drivers/mb2hal.html
> 
> basically, at the time, a working modbus vfd driver was edited to use
> modio registers instead of the vfd registers. There has been other
> independent work done on linuxcnc so searching the linuxcnc wiki might
> pull up more information.
> 
> On 2/5/20 11:43 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > The wiki for this is out of date.  http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-
> bin/wiki.pl?ModIO
> >
> > First of course the folder linkages should now read linuxcnc rather than
> EMC2.
> >
> > Also the document states:
> >
> > Both Driver Directories Need
> >  modbus.c
> >  modbus.h
> >  findbindir
> >  find-libdir
> >  find-modinc
> >
> > But the linked folders to download these are either broken or wrong.
> 
> These used to be on Michael Haberler's git repository, but it looks like
> he doesn't work on cnc software anymore.
> 
> >
> > The driver code homann_modio.c is also missing LCD support so that needs
> to be finished.
> >
> > Since I have a ModIO, an MPG Encoder wheel and a cheap 4x20 line display
> somewhere on route from China I'd like to take a stab at making it work on
> LinuxCNC.
> >
> > Clearly the make files also need to be edited to fix path and filenames 
> > like:
> >  emc/usr_intf/axis emc/usr_intf/touchy emc/usr_intf/stepconf
> emc/usr_intf/pncconf \
> >
> > Or has this all been done already by someone?
> >
> > Thanks
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO --> A little bit OT

[N]

If I got it correct a sales person said there new modern drives could be 
equipped with a cheap modbus module so it might still be useful even though it 
is an protocol.

> The wiki for this is out of date.  
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ModIO
> 
> First of course the folder linkages should now read linuxcnc rather than EMC2.
> 
> Also the document states:
> 
> Both Driver Directories Need
> modbus.c 
> modbus.h 
> findbindir 
> find-libdir 
> find-modinc
> 
> But the linked folders to download these are either broken or wrong.
> 
> The driver code homann_modio.c is also missing LCD support so that needs to 
> be finished.
> 
> Since I have a ModIO, an MPG Encoder wheel and a cheap 4x20 line display 
> somewhere on route from China I'd like to take a stab at making it work on 
> LinuxCNC. 
> 
> Clearly the make files also need to be edited to fix path and filenames like:
> emc/usr_intf/axis emc/usr_intf/touchy emc/usr_intf/stepconf 
> emc/usr_intf/pncconf \
> 
> Or has this all been done already by someone?
> 
> Thanks
> John


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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[N]

Could see mb2hal files in my directory so I guess they are normally compiled.

If I got it correct a sales person said there new modern drives could be 
equipped with a cheap Modbus module so it might still be useful even though it 
is an protocol.

> The MB2HAL module should be able to talk to it 
> . I/O should be no 
> problem but the display may be a bit awkward.
> 
> Les
> 
> On 06/02/2020 07:43, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > The wiki for this is out of date.  
> > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ModIO
> >
> > First of course the folder linkages should now read linuxcnc rather than 
> > EMC2.
> >
> > Also the document states:
> >
> > Both Driver Directories Need
> >  modbus.c
> >  modbus.h
> >  findbindir
> >  find-libdir
> >  find-modinc
> >
> > But the linked folders to download these are either broken or wrong.
> >
> > The driver code homann_modio.c is also missing LCD support so that needs to 
> > be finished.
> >
> > Since I have a ModIO, an MPG Encoder wheel and a cheap 4x20 line display 
> > somewhere on route from China I'd like to take a stab at making it work on 
> > LinuxCNC.
> >
> > Clearly the make files also need to be edited to fix path and filenames 
> > like:
> >  emc/usr_intf/axis emc/usr_intf/touchy emc/usr_intf/stepconf 
> > emc/usr_intf/pncconf \
> >
> > Or has this all been done already by someone?
> >
> > Thanks
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[Les Newell]

The MB2HAL module should be able to talk to it 
. I/O should be no 
problem but the display may be a bit awkward.


Les

On 06/02/2020 07:43, John Dammeyer wrote:

The wiki for this is out of date.  
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ModIO

First of course the folder linkages should now read linuxcnc rather than EMC2.

Also the document states:

Both Driver Directories Need
 modbus.c
 modbus.h
 findbindir
 find-libdir
 find-modinc

But the linked folders to download these are either broken or wrong.

The driver code homann_modio.c is also missing LCD support so that needs to be 
finished.

Since I have a ModIO, an MPG Encoder wheel and a cheap 4x20 line display 
somewhere on route from China I'd like to take a stab at making it work on 
LinuxCNC.

Clearly the make files also need to be edited to fix path and filenames like:
 emc/usr_intf/axis emc/usr_intf/touchy emc/usr_intf/stepconf 
emc/usr_intf/pncconf \

Or has this all been done already by someone?

Thanks
John




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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[Kirk Wallace]

This might help but it may be out of date as well:

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/drivers/mb2hal.html


basically, at the time, a working modbus vfd driver was edited to use 
modio registers instead of the vfd registers. There has been other 
independent work done on linuxcnc so searching the linuxcnc wiki might 
pull up more information.


On 2/5/20 11:43 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

The wiki for this is out of date.  
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ModIO

First of course the folder linkages should now read linuxcnc rather than EMC2.

Also the document states:

Both Driver Directories Need
 modbus.c
 modbus.h
 findbindir
 find-libdir
 find-modinc

But the linked folders to download these are either broken or wrong.


These used to be on Michael Haberler's git repository, but it looks like 
he doesn't work on cnc software anymore.




The driver code homann_modio.c is also missing LCD support so that needs to be 
finished.

Since I have a ModIO, an MPG Encoder wheel and a cheap 4x20 line display 
somewhere on route from China I'd like to take a stab at making it work on 
LinuxCNC.

Clearly the make files also need to be edited to fix path and filenames like:
 emc/usr_intf/axis emc/usr_intf/touchy emc/usr_intf/stepconf 
emc/usr_intf/pncconf \

Or has this all been done already by someone?

Thanks
John




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Re: [Emc-users] Homann Designs ModIO

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 07:46, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> But the linked folders to download these are either broken or wrong.

The link is to Michael Haberler's private git, it looks like that no
longer exists. But the vfs-11 driver that it seems to be linking to is
now part of LinuxCNC and references headers that may be built-in:
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/0f91c553a238c3f5e8a52285044761c2dcfd7de5/src/hal/user_comps/vfs11_vfd/vfs11_vfd.c

> Clearly the make files also need to be edited to fix path and filenames like:
> emc/usr_intf/axis emc/usr_intf/touchy emc/usr_intf/stepconf 
> emc/usr_intf/pncconf \

No, the source paths still use emc:
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/tree/0f91c553a238c3f5e8a52285044761c2dcfd7de5/src/emc/usr_intf/axis
For example.

(emc is OK, emc2 was the problem)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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