[EVDL] EVLN: £26k VW e-Golf ubiquitous with a difference

2014-09-17 Thread brucedp5 via EV


This nippy little number is just the thing for city living

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/road-tests/vw-egolf-motoring-review-this-nippy-little-number-is-just-the-thing-for-city-living-9724981.html
VW e-Golf, motoring review: This nippy little number is just the thing for
city living 
 Jamie Merrill  10 September 2014  

[image  
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9724955.ece/alternates/w620/pg-40-wheels.jpg
]

The VW Golf may be ubiquitous, but this is a Golf with a difference: it's
the first ever model to do away completely with the internal combustion
engine. That's right, VW has dived headfirst into the booming electric car
market.

This isn't just any electric car, though. It offers up 113bhp to the front
wheels, making it a nippy number, which, aside from a reduced travelling
range, is practically identical to a normal Golf in every regard. It will
set you back £25,845 (including a £5,000 Government subsidy) and will manage
to hit 87mph flat out if you absolutely need to take it to a German Autobahn
for speed testing. 

Of course, with a claimed range of 118 miles (I got nearer 100 miles),
getting to the continent could be tricky, and hitting the top speed will
batter the range, but that misses the point. As a city runaround, this car
is just as practical as a supermini.

For the sake of fairness I should confess to a fondness for electric cars.
In London, where I live and am lucky enough (unlike many) to have a spot at
my flat to charge one, they make some sense. For example, I can park it in
the car park near my office at a reduced fee, and don't pay the daily
congestion charge. I also feel smug that I'm not fouling the capital's
already disgusting air like other drivers. 

The problem is that I'm not sure how many people there are in my position
with a desire to buy one – when not testing electric cars, I happily take
the Tube or cycle to work. Then there's the price, which is £5k more than
the standard (fairly clean) petrol model.

Still, something about the e-Golf suggests that it will find a market.
Driving across south London on a cat-ferrying mission (the e-Golf ride is
smooth, but not smooth enough to prevent feline vomiting), I was hailed down
at some traffic lights by a young chap in a tracksuit. He was driving a
rude boy Golf with alloys and go-faster stripes. He gesticulated wildly
for me to bring my window down, pointed at the subtle e-Golf badge and
breathlessly asked me what will it do.

I replied that it would, if driven carefully, do about 100 miles from an
overnight charge. He seemed impressed. Normally, speed-lovers only flag me
down if I'm driving something fast. Something with a spoiler, not a charging
socket. It looks like that's changing.
[© independent.co.uk]




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+
EVLN: 6 Reasons Why 500e EV Beats The Abarth ice


{brucedp.150m.com}



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[EVDL] Take advantage of sweet EV deals Automakers seek credits to sell ice

2014-09-17 Thread brucedp5 via EV


Automakers sell or lease at a discount to meet their carbon quota 

[I am posting this at a historical point on the EV timeline]

Previously I had seen one of the well made Fiat 500e TV ads with a trailer
that stated a SF area local dealer was offering 500e EV purchase or lease at
quite a low cost.

I contacted them visa their website's emailing method to gather more
information.

Wow, it only took a month for them to get back to me about the 500e
(meanwhile, I had been put on their ad-spam distribution list lots-o-ice
ads via email). Obviously, using email to contact some dealerships
specifically about their plugin does not work if they are telephone
(quick-sale) based.

Below is their response, and yes it is clearly some self-promotion
(advertising). But notice all the links to aid in swaying the potential
buyer to go Electric. Wonder why they did not include  plugshare.com  ?  

Perhaps the sales types selling their EVs are regular EV drivers?
Then again, maybe this person is, because I am finding more and more local
plugin drivers have never heard of plugshare nor its app. Those that haven't
usually only use the EVSE network's website / app.

Note, their wording below that they want to 'see' me. Not hear from me
(email or telephone). They want to be able to sway me in person (to make the
sale).

Fiat isn't the only brand that has discounted pricing on EVs (and I am not
saying this dealer is the one to buy from - shop around for the best deal).
But below is an example I am posting to document for the evdl archive to
note this point in time.

If you know of 'good-deal' price that is happening right-now, I ask that you
post what you know (how-much and where). Researcher looking back through
time, will see the large difference between before when the media was (is)
paid to kill EVs, to today when they and dealers are pushing for EV sales.
It will be also interesting to see what changes will occur over time after
the up-n-coming national election (possible change in EV policies, same as
with previous administration changes, etc.). 


{brucedp.150m.com}





-
Fiat 500e Available In Stock - Hendrik / Fiat of Burlingame
Saturday, September 13, 2014 11:08 AM

Thank you for your interest in the FIAT 500e.
I do have the vehicle available and is ready to be delivered.

NO WAITING LIST!

And if you are flexible with the exterior color, interior color and options
(special color: electric orange and pearl white, steam interior color, sport
package and sun roof).
You can drive this vehicle home today for as little as $99/mo, $1999 down
(tax, title and license extra) for a 24 months lease or $199/mo, $999 down
(tax, title and license extra) for a 36 months lease (on approved credit, in
stock vehicle only).

Plus $2500 California State rebate is eligible for lease or purchase and
$7500 Federal tax rebate is eligible for purchase only:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml

https://energycenter.org/ 

Plus HOV sticker is also eligible for Fiat 500e:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/decal.htm 

Plus special rate from PGE:

http://www.pge.com/pev/

Plus more charging station all over the San Francisco and Bay area:

http://www.sfenvironment.org/sites/default/files/fliers/files/sfe_tr_public_evses_in_san_francisco.pdf
 

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/locator/stations/ 

For more information about our inventory, please visit our website at:

http://www.fiatusaofburlingame.com/index.htm 

If you want to schedule a test drive, please contact me at 415.350.0321 or
650.373.4362 or email me at hend...@fiatofburlingame.com.

Thank you so much and looking forward to seeing you,

Hendrik Nursalim
Fiat Specialist
Cell/text - 415.350.0321
Office - 650.373.4362
Fax - 650.340.6938
Parts  Service - 650.558.5656 
hendrik @fiatofburlingame.com
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Re: [EVDL] 4 to 12 Cell Lithium BMS

2014-09-17 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV
Maybe I'm missing something here, but for the golf cars, doesn't the vehicle 
have some kind of master on-off ignition switch?  It would be pretty 
unusual not to.  Couldn't you connect that to a relay with its NO contacts 
in series with the contactor coil, so the contactor would always be open 
when the ignition or key switch is off, even if the BMS wanted it on? 

The problem seems different for a portable battery supply.  There I guess 
I'd probably look for a different BMS, one that doesn't insist on 
controlling the main contactor.  But I am not a lithium expert.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: £26k VW e-Golf ubiquitous with a difference

2014-09-17 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV
On 17 Sep 2014 at 0:18, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

 I also feel smug that I'm not fouling the capital's already disgusting
 air like other drivers. 

Anyone else here feel smug about this?

With every article like this that I read, I lose more respect for today's  
journalists.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] 4 to 12 Cell Lithium BMS

2014-09-17 Thread Willie2 via EV

On 09/16/2014 09:24 PM, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote:

I have a Mini BMS system also.  I suspect the contractor might be for charging 
circuitry.  I have the same issues with an SSR in my system.

The Mini BMS is set up to terminate charging if necessary when a cell is over 
voltage and the ignition system is off.  It does this by turning off the SSR or 
contactor on the AC line to the charger when it detects a cell alert with the 
ignition off.

When you turn on the ignition system, it re-arms the contactor back to on, to 
prepare for the next charge cycle.  The problem is that the contactor stays on 
all the time the vehicle is parked.  On my car, it takes about 2 weeks to drain 
the auxiliary battery.

I solve this by pulling the fuse to the EV control circuits which includes 
power to the SSR.  I've wondered if there is a better way too.

My Hyundai has been using an EVPower BMS controller all it's life. 
EVPower cell modules have been replaced witn miniBMS modules.  The 
EVPower controller is a complete ready to use unit while the miniBMS 
head board is just a starting point.  The EVPower controller contains 
a pack to 12v DC-DC which supplies a 20 amp SCR to switch charger input 
current.  To reduce demand on your starting battery, you might consider 
a similar set up.  The universal voltage wall warts are VERY 
versatile.  They operate on something like 85-250 volts, both AC and 
DC.  You can control your SCR off of the pack with the wall wart 
between.  The wall wart vampire load is much less significant to your 
traction pack than to your starting battery.


I found some ~13.5v wall warts that I use to trickle charge starting 
batteries from traction packs.  As a backup to my regular DC-DCs.


Perhaps also of interest:
About three years ago I was dealing with how to control AC current to my 
10kw charger (EMW).  The 20amp SCR mentioned above wouldn't handle that 
current.  I tried a 40 amp SCR but it was getting too hot.  AND SCRs 
apparently fail on.  Certainly a potential disaster.  I first had 
Steve add in a heavy duty 240vac relay with a 120vac coil.  That worked 
well as long as I charged only at 240vac and not through a J1772.  This 
was discussed at length here at that time.  I messed around a lot with 
Lee Hart's idea of using a light bulb to get about the right voltage to 
the coil but I never found the right light bulb.  I finally used the SCR 
(in the EVPower BMS controller) to switch AC current, either 120 or 240, 
to some 12v wall warts.  The wall warts now supply heavy duty relays 
with 12vdc coils.  That setup has worked well for about three years 
switching about 12kw of charging.

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Re: [EVDL] 4 to 12 Cell Lithium BMS

2014-09-17 Thread Pestka, Dennis J via EV
Yes I would agree.
At our plant sites, we use electric golf carts for all of our construction 
projects.
They all had a key switch to power up, and a rocker switch for forward and 
reverse.

Thanks;
Dennis 
Elsberry, MO   
http://www.evalbum.com/1366 
http://evalbum.com/3715  



-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EVDL Administrator via 
EV
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 3:36 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4 to 12 Cell Lithium BMS

Maybe I'm missing something here, but for the golf cars, doesn't the vehicle 
have some kind of master on-off ignition switch?  It would be pretty unusual 
not to.  Couldn't you connect that to a relay with its NO contacts in series 
with the contactor coil, so the contactor would always be open when the 
ignition or key switch is off, even if the BMS wanted it on? 

The problem seems different for a portable battery supply.  There I guess I'd 
probably look for a different BMS, one that doesn't insist on controlling the 
main contactor.  But I am not a lithium expert.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] 4 to 12 Cell Lithium BMS

2014-09-17 Thread Roland via EV
.  AND SCRs 
  apparently fail on.  Certainly a potential disaster.  I first had 
  Steve add in a heavy duty 240vac relay with a 120vac coil.  That worked 
  well as long as I charged only at 240vac and not through a J1772.  This 
  was discussed at length here at that time.  I messed around a lot with 
  Lee Hart's idea of using a light bulb to get about the right voltage to 
  the coil but I never found the right light bulb.  I finally used the SCR

  (in the EVPower BMS controller) to switch AC current, either 120 or 240,

  to some 12v wall warts.  The wall warts now supply heavy duty relays 
  with 12vdc coils.  That setup has worked well for about three years 
  switching about 12kw of charging.
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Re: [EVDL] 4 to 12 Cell Lithium BMS

2014-09-17 Thread Steve Clunn via EV
One of my problems with the setup that I have is that the Contactor is for
both driving and Battery Charging, so, the Contactor ends up being ON
almost all of the time.
The Mini BMS Modules that are on these batteries, work by breaking a loop
circuit.  Any time the voltage is above 3.6V or below 2.75V they will open
their control circuit and all the BMS' control loops are in one big series
string, so that any cell not being happy will cause the contactor to turn
OFF, which will turn off the charger or the load.
As you can see with this set up, when charging or driving, we have the same
contactor sipping power.

One solution of course, would be to have the charging circuit separate from
the Load Circuit and I could even have the foot peddle engage and disengage
the main contactor, but I still have to deal with charging and since the
chargers are not on board, I have to deal with switching the DC input
current.
I have some transistors ( fets) that I may play with as Cor van de Water
suggested for the charger.
The head board that comes with this set up seems to be changing with each
new revision. I have not had a lot of luck figureing out from the web site,
all the little details and how to make a contactor for charging and a
contactor for driving be powered from the same board.  thanks for all your
input.

-- 
Steve Clunn
Merging the best of the past with
the best of the future.
www.Greenshedconversions.com
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Re: [EVDL] 4 to 12 Cell Lithium BMS

2014-09-17 Thread Lee Hart via EV

Steve Clunn via EV wrote:

One of my problems with the setup that I have is that the Contactor is for
both driving and Battery Charging, so, the Contactor ends up being ON
almost all of the time.

One solution of course, would be to have the charging circuit separate from
the Load Circuit and I could even have the foot peddle engage and disengage
the main contactor


That's a good general case solution for problems while driving. This 
will also be a big high-current contactor. It will have a relatively 
high coil current; but it's only on for a relatively short time, and its 
power is a tiny fraction of the load compared to driving the EV traction 
motor.



but I still have to deal with charging


The contactor needed to break the DC charging circuit is far smaller, 
since your charging current is likely to be much lower. That means its 
coil current will be far smaller. It's easy to find a relay with 30-amp 
contacts whose coil draws less than a watt. That's 12v at 83ma, or 36v 
at 27ma. Maybe that's low enough not to worry about?


You can also depend on the relay being held on with only 1/4th its rated 
coil voltage and current. Once pulled in, a 12v relay will stay on at 
3v. So put an RC slugger in series with the coil. It gets full voltage 
at turn-on, when the capacitor is discharged. Then the capacitor 
charges, and the resistor limits the current to 14th of its normal value 
to hold it in. For a 1 watt coil, that's 21ma at 12v, or 7ma at 36v. Is 
that low enough?



since the chargers are not on board, I have to deal with switching
the DC input current.


That's not really so bad. The charger almost certainly won't have filter 
capacitors, so the charging current isn't DC, it's pulsating AC. Relays 
with AC-rated contacts are fine, because the current goes to zero 120 
times a second, just like on AC.


What kind of charger are you using? Will it care if you open a contactor 
to disconnect its DC output while charging? Most chargers won't care, 
but a few (like the Manzanita PFC chargers) can be damaged if you open 
their DC output while they are operating.


Some chargers will even shut themselves down if there is no connection 
to their output. This is good with an offboard charger, since it 
automatically turns off the AC without you needing a separate connection 
to break AC power into the charger.


Do you always charge from a GFCI-protected outlet? If so, one way to 
shut down AC to the charger without a direct connection is to have your 
BMS generate a 5ma ground fault to shut it down. A *really* tiny relay 
or optocoupler is sufficient to do this. The relay could be held on by 
just 1ma from the batteries. When the BMS turns it off, the relay drops 
out, so its normally-closed contact closes. This connects a resistor 
from pack to chassis that draws 5-10ma. The GFCI sees the ground fault, 
and shuts off AC to the charger. :-)



I have some transistors ( fets) that I may play with as Cor van de Water
suggested for the charger.


You could indeed build a solid state relay with series MOSFETs. But that 
might be more of an engineering challenge than you'd like. There are a 
lot of subtleties to get it right, so it's not killed by static or AC 
line transients.


--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do these great deeds, worth repeating.
-- Ben Franklin, from Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
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Re: [EVDL] Dissimilar metals on Headyways?

2014-09-17 Thread George Tyler via EV
Are you sure the ends are aluminium? Without the screw terminals they are 
connected by nickel strips spot welded to the ends, not sure you can spot weld 
nickel to aluminium. I think they are plated steel.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of via EV
Sent: Wednesday, 17 September 2014 3:34 p.m.
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] Dissimilar metals on Headyways?



I'm building up some headway packs.
 
My understanding is they have aluminum end caps in the bare state, but when you 
get them with screw terminals the screw terminals are steel and sit on the 
aluminum.
 
Might this make it better to wire them together with Aluminum plates rather 
than Copper plates? Does solder dipping the plate help? Thanks for the advice.
 
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[EVDL] Reduced range with Heater on.

2014-09-17 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV
Next time I hear someone blasting the reduced range of an EV with the heat
on, I want to come back with something like this:



“What? The heater in your gas guzzler is reducing your gasoline range by
over 70%.  And not only that, you can’t even turn all that wasted heat
off!  All you can select to do is either vent the heat into the cabin in
the winter, or blow it under the car all the rest of the time throwing away
70% of the energy you bought at the pump.  At least an EV can turn off
heater energy when not needed.”



Is there a better way to say it?



Bob, WB4APR
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Re: [EVDL] Reduced range with Heater on.

2014-09-17 Thread Lee Hart via EV

Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

“What? The heater in your gas guzzler is reducing your gasoline range by
over 70%.  And not only that, you can’t even turn all that wasted heat
off!  All you can select to do is either vent the heat into the cabin in
the winter, or blow it under the car all the rest of the time throwing away
70% of the energy you bought at the pump.  At least an EV can turn off
heater energy when not needed.”


Oohh, I like it! That's a great way to put it. (evil grin)

--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do these great deeds, worth repeating.
-- Ben Franklin, from Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
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Re: [EVDL] Dissimilar metals on Headyways?

2014-09-17 Thread Michael Ross via EV
How about a photo or spec sheet to look at?  You say Headway, do they only
make on sized and form of cell?

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 11:34 PM, via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:



 I'm building up some headway packs.

 My understanding is they have aluminum end caps in the bare state, but
 when you get them with screw terminals the screw terminals are steel and
 sit on the aluminum.

 Might this make it better to wire them together with Aluminum plates
 rather than Copper plates? Does solder dipping the plate help? Thanks for
 the advice.

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-- 
Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
*Dalai Lama *

Tell me what it is you plan to do
With your one wild and precious life?
Mary Oliver, The summer day.

To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 550-2430 Land
(919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell
(919) 513-0418 Desk

michael.e.r...@gmail.com
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[EVDL] Thanks

2014-09-17 Thread Sam Shepherd via EV
Many thanks to those of who offered help with my problem, the loose
connections seems to have cleared up the problem!
Again thank you all.
Sam
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Re: [EVDL] Dissimilar metals on Headyways?

2014-09-17 Thread George Tyler via EV
I have both types, just checked them,  no sign of aluminium anywhere


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Michael Ross via EV
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 11:43 a.m.
To: evdragra...@email.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Dissimilar metals on Headyways?

How about a photo or spec sheet to look at?  You say Headway, do they only
make on sized and form of cell?

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 11:34 PM, via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:



 I'm building up some headway packs.

 My understanding is they have aluminum end caps in the bare state, but 
 when you get them with screw terminals the screw terminals are steel 
 and sit on the aluminum.

 Might this make it better to wire them together with Aluminum plates 
 rather than Copper plates? Does solder dipping the plate help? Thanks 
 for the advice.

 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)




--
Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
*Dalai Lama *

Tell me what it is you plan to do
With your one wild and precious life?
Mary Oliver, The summer day.

To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 550-2430 Land
(919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell
(919) 513-0418 Desk

michael.e.r...@gmail.com
michael.e.r...@gmail.com
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