[EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
Blaming EVs 4clogging hov/carpool lanes toll$ will ri$e
http://www.mercurynews.com/mr-roadshow/ci_26822022/roadshow-california-test-fees-number-miles-driven
Roadshow: California to test mileage-based fees
By Gary Richards 11/02/2014
[image
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site568/2014/1101/20141101__teslaxc~1.JPG
John Glenney, 62, of Lexington, Ky., drove his Tesla Model S across the
United States using only the company's Supercharging stations. (Bay Area
News Group)
]
Q Will you please explain how the new law Gov. Jerry Brown just signed that
will charge drivers in California for every mile a car drives will work?
When will this go into effect?
Betty Weldon
A Don't panic, for nothing is going to happen overnight. A few weeks ago
Brown signed into law the first test of a proposal to charge drivers by the
number of miles driven. The bill creates a panel to oversee a pilot project
that could be in place by 2018. California now becomes the largest state to
consider charging VMT fees (for vehicle miles traveled).
Details have yet to be worked out, but Oregon will soon be testing a VMT fee
beginning July 1. Details on that program:
It applies only to vehicles that get 55 mpg (electric and select plug-in
hybrids) and are model 2015 or newer.
Oregon drivers would pay 1.5 cents for every mile they travel in the state.
The 5,000 drivers are all volunteers.
This will not replace Oregon's state gas tax, but will be another way to
collect road fees.
Officials in other states are also looking at VMT fees and they'll all be
watching California, where 17 percent of the nation's car sales take place.
Why the push to another way to pay? Gas use has declined steadily since 2005
as fuel-efficient and alternative energy cars have flourished. A decade ago,
Californians consumed nearly 16 billion gallons of gas annually. That figure
dropped to 14.5 billion last year. And the state gas tax has not been raised
in 21 years.
Q Why are only gas-type vehicles being taxed and not electric or hybrids?
All of us use the same roads, and it seems only right that all should
participate equally in their upkeep. Am I missing something here?
Barbara Smith
Fremont
A You make a good point, and that is what a VMT fee would rectify. The idea
is that since hybrids and electric cars pay less in taxes, a tax based on
the number of miles driven would make them pay their fair share.
Q How about doing a report on how electric vehicles are clogging up carpool
lanes? Before, a carpool lane was used for two or more plus motorcycles and
transit buses. But now it is also for electric vehicles with carpool
stickers, which defeats the purpose of a carpool lane because it has almost
become a regular lane. Do electric vehicle owners need a lane specifically
for them?
Alexis Pedroza
Patterson
A They'll have it until 2019, when this perk will end, unless the
Legislature again extends it, as it has three times. As of Sept. 23, the DMV
has issued the 55,000-maximum green decals allowed by law, and 15,000 more
will be available Jan. 1. Applications for green stickers will continue to
be accepted at this time, but new ones cannot be issued until after Jan. 1.
And 57,914 white decals have been given out. There is no maximum for them.
Over the past four years California drivers have purchased more than 100,000
plug-in electrical vehicles. Bottom line: Carpool lanes will continue to jam
up. And when solo drivers can buy their way into more diamond lanes, tolls
will rise to keep traffic in those lanes moving.
[© mercurynews.com]
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http://www.citizen-times.com/story/opinion/2014/11/03/reasons-drive-electric/18386219/
5 reasons to drive electric
http://www.theautofuture.com/2014/11/01/nissan-testing-v2h-technology-leaf-home-charging-units/
Nissan Begins Testing V2H Technology with Leaf-to-Home Charging Units
http://insideevs.com/usage-charging-stations-british-columbia-doubles-august-2013-august-2014/
Public British Columbian EVSE Usage Doubles From Aug 2013 To Aug 2014
+
EVLN: SR-Auto bling-tuning of BMW i3 EV
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[EVDL] EVLN: SR-Auto bling-tuning of BMW i3 EV
http://www.worldcarfans.com/114102983491/sr-auto-group-presents-tuning-for-bmw-i3
SR Auto Group presents tuning for BMW i3
[2014/10/29] SR Auto Group
[images
http://content.worldcarfans.co/2014/10/29/big/3592364201778740742.jpg
SR Auto Group BMW i3
http://www.worldcarfans.com/114102983491/sr-auto-group-presents-tuning-for-bmw-i3/lowphotos#1
]
A stylish EV from Canada
Canadian tuners SR Auto Group have revealed their latest tuning project
based on the BMW i3.
At the beginning of this month, EVO previewed its radically restyled version
of the vehicle and now their Canadian colleagues from SR are ready with
their “electrically charged and environmentally friendly” version.
What they actually have done is just replacing the stock wheels of the model
with a set of new PUR LG04 rims with a custom flat lip. The company explains
that “normally this would be an easy task”, but “since the vehicle rolled
off the lot just a few months ago, there was little to no information to be
found”. So, after performing a research and development work, the tuners
“were able to engineer a set of wheels for the car”.
[© worldcarfans.com]
http://www.srautogroup.com/2014/10/28/its-electrified/
It’s Electrified
October 28, 2014
Electrically charged and environmentally friendly are just some of the ways
to describe the BMW I3. Turning the page back a few months ago, we were
presented with the task of fitting this I3 with a set of wheels. Normally
that would be a easy task but since the vehicle rolled off the lot just a
few months ago, there was little to no information to be found. After
performing our own rd, we were able to engineer a set of wheels for the
car. Fast forward to today, and we have the BMW I3 sitting on a set of PUR
LG04's with a custom flat lip.
[images] [© srautogroup.com]
http://www.inautonews.com/bmw-i3-gets-tuned-by-sr-auto-group
BMW i3 gets tuned by SR Auto Group
by Cristian Gnaticov October 30th, 2014
The Canadian based tuning company called SR Auto Group has recently created
a project based on the popular BMW i3.
BMW i3 fans have probably found their new desktop background images as the
guys from SR Auto Group have just revealed their newest tuning project,
bringing the model in question into this category for the second time, after
Japanese tuners from Eve Ryn have presented a radical body kit for the model
in question, which has been called the EVO and it has added some interesting
features to the model in question, helping it become even hotter.
The BMW i3 signed by SR Auto Group has received some new wheels, which are
replacing the old ones, being called the PUR LG04 with a custom flat lip. No
pricing details for this action have been announced yet but you can check it
out closer in the small photo gallery posted below. The BMW i3 has a 170 HP
(125 kW) and 250 Nm (184 lb-ft) of torque electric motor which is backed up
by a two-cylinder 650cc petrol burner, acting as a range extender and
providing an extra 34 HP.
[© inautonews.com]
http://motoringcrunch.com/news/bmw-i3-ev-finished-with-blings/1003616/
BMW i3 EV Finished With Blings!
by Allison Blackburn · November 1, 2014
The BMW i3 is one of the finest looking EV in the world and it things just
got better for the vehicle. SR Auto Group simply changed the rims to and the
i3 automatically looks meaner and ready for a race.
The Canadian company equipped the i3 with PUR LG04 alloy wheels that comes
with nice clean-cut lips which supports the needles running that are
attached all-over the place.
The striking part is the shiny blue accessories glued to where each needles
is planted that looks like diamonds when running at night. Even on the day,
the blue accents become the centre of attraction among the street dwellers.
While SR Auto Group might not admit it, the images it shared revealed that
the i3 EV also comes with new suspensions that gave it a lowered stance.
Regardless, that won’t matter as long as the hatchback has the blings to
brag about.
[© motoringcrunch.com]
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http://www.citizen-times.com/story/opinion/2014/11/03/reasons-drive-electric/18386219/
5 reasons to drive electric
http://www.theautofuture.com/2014/11/01/nissan-testing-v2h-technology-leaf-home-charging-units/
Nissan Begins Testing V2H Technology with Leaf-to-Home Charging Units
http://insideevs.com/usage-charging-stations-british-columbia-doubles-august-2013-august-2014/
Public British Columbian EVSE Usage Doubles From Aug 2013 To Aug 2014
+
EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
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[EVDL] EVent: e-Motor Conference Coming To Motor-City MI 11/11-13 ($)
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/11/06/electric-motor-conference-coming-to-motor-city/
Electric Motor Conference Coming To Motor City
November 6, 2014 By Edward Cardenas
[image
http://cbsdetroit.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/107210655_8.jpg
FILE PHOTO A battery pack for the Chevy Volt awaits installation into the
vehicle on the assembly line after General Motors celebrated the official
launch of the Chevrolet Volt hybrid electric vehicle at GM’s
Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly November 30, 2010 in Detroit, Michigan. The Volt
is an extended-range electric vehicle. (Credit: Bill Pugliano/Getty Images)
]
DEARBORN (CBS Detroit) – A three-day electric vehicle machine design course
for experienced professionals, and college students, is coming to the Motor
City for the first time in nearly a decade.
J-H Workshop and Infolytica Corporation, are presenting a three-day electric
vehicle machine design course and workshop Nov. 11-13 at the Courtyard
Marroitt Detroit in Dearborn.
The conference is geared toward professionals, and aspiring engineers, to
study the design process for three electric machine types: AC Induction, PM
– AC Synchronous and Switched Reluctance Synchronous.
Battery technology is growing field for both automotive and other uses, said
Jim Hendershot, who is organizing the conference. He said electric motors
can be found in vehicles, power plants, wind turbines and even washing
machines.
“There is a big shortage around the world, particularly in the United
States, for experienced electric motor designers,” said Hendershot, who
added that the University of Wisconsin in Madison is among the only college
in the country teaching electric motor design. “You have a revolution going
on these days.”
Workshop topics provide a technical overview of each of the three engine
types, examples of each type presented, and results of each type using a
fast and accurate simulation tool, followed by actual supervised hands-on
design class time using each attendee’s personal laptop computer, according
to organizers.
Hendershot has held similar classes around the world in Istanbul, Korea,
Singapore, France and Detroit for the first time in nearly a decade.
[© detroit.cbslocal.com]
...
https://www.jh-workshop.com/product/ev-traction-motor-promo/
Home / EV TRACTION MOTOR DESIGN WORKSHOP PROMO
dearborn-product
EV TRACTION MOTOR DESIGN WORKSHOP PROMO
$999.99
November 11-13, 2014
SKU: JHMI2014P.
Product Description
Three day event in Dearborn, MI.
Including in the registration fees: workshop manual (printed copy), morning
refreshments, mid-morning coffee break, lunch and afternoon coffee break.
If you are coming by car, you will receive a parking voucher for each day as
well.
We will start each day at 8am sharp and conclude at 5pm.
We will also all attendees a trial of MotorSolve for use during the workshop
(optional)
-
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[EVDL] EVrecord: 0-100kph:1.785s Grimsel.ch e-racer Out-Accelerate Formula1
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2820842/The-fastest-little-car-world-Electric-car-smashes-world-record-accelerating-0-100km-h-just-1-8-seconds.html
The fastest little car in the world: Electric car smashes world record by
accelerating from 0-100km/h in under 1.8 seconds
By Mark Prigg 4 November 2014
[images / ETH Zurich
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/04/1415128821993_wps_5_MUST_CREDIT_ETH_Zurich_AN.jpg
The mini-motor went from from 0 to 100 km/h in 1.785 seconds in under 30
metres
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/04/1415129836077_wps_6_MUST_CREDIT_ETH_Zurich_AN.jpg
The new record was set at the military airfield in Dübendorf, where the
vehicle reached a speed of 100 km per hour in less than 30 metres.
videos flash
]
Called Grimsel and developed by Swiss researchers
Went from from 0 to 100 km/h in 1.785 seconds in under 30 metres
It may look rather more like a toy car than a hi-tech racing machine, but
this mini-racer has become the world's fastest electric car.
Called the Grimsel, and developed by Swiss researchers, it broke the
previous world record for acceleration by going from 0 to 100 km/h in 1.785
seconds in under 30 metres.
The carbon fibre construction has a total weight of 168 kg and produces
about 200 hp (147 kW).
The new record was set at the military airfield in Dübendorf, where the
vehicle reached a speed of 100 km per hour in less than 30 metres.
THE GRIMSEL
Total weight of only 168kg
Powered by four AMZ M4 wheel hub motors.
Produce 37kW each at a weight of 3.4kg.
The planetary gearbox which is integrated into the upright transmits the
torque to accumulated 1630Nm at the wheels.
The chassis is a one piece carbon fibre monocoque
Aerodynamics package produces enough downforce to drive at the ceiling at
110km/h.
Raced by the the Formula Student team at the Academic Motorsports Club
Zurich (AMZ), it beat the previous record of 2.134 seconds, which was held
by an electric car built by Delft University of Technology.
The new record was set at the military airfield in Dübendorf, where the
vehicle reached a speed of 100 km per hour in less than 30 metres.
The new record-breaking vehicle is a Formula Student electric car that was
developed and built in less than a year by 30 students at ETH Zurich and
Lucerne University of Applied Sciences and Arts. The ‘grimsel’ is the fifth
AMZ electric car and the result of continuous development.
The carbon fibre construction has a total weight of 168 kg and produces
about 200 hp (147 kW).
A four-wheel drive is implemented with four specially designed wheel hub
motors, which generate a total torque of 1630 Nm at the wheels.
Electric car breaks record by accelerating to 100km/h in 1.8secs
By means of traction control, torque distribution is controlled individually
for each wheel to maximise vehicle acceleration.
No other production vehicle in the world has reached a similarly strong
acceleration.
The ‘grimsel’ celebrated numerous successes at the Formula Student
international competition this summer.
With more than 500 teams, Formula Student is the world’s biggest competition
for engineers and is held annually at various locations around the globe.
With three overall wins and an average of 920 points out of a possible
1,000, the ‘grimsel’ is AMZ’s most successful car.
And with its victories in Austria and Spain, it achieved the two highest
scores in the European history of Formula Student.
These further strengthened AMZ’s standing at the top of the Formula Student
world rankings and demonstrated the potential in electric drive concepts.
[© Associated Newspapers]
...
https://transportevolved.com/2014/11/05/meet-grimsel-crazy-swiss-electric-car-can-accelerate-formula-one-car/
Meet Grimsel, a Crazy Swiss Electric Car That Can Out-Accelerate an Formula
One Car
November 5, 2014 By Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
...
https://www.ethz.ch/en/news-and-events/eth-news/news/2014/11/Grimsel_bricht_Weltrekord.html
‘grimsel’ breaks world record
03.11.2014 ... set by students from ETH Zurich and Lucerne University of
Applied Sciences and Arts, who also designed and built the vehicle ...
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimsel_Pass#History
Grimsel-Pass.ch
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Re: [EVDL] Crusin Batteries
Hi Guys Audrey Clunn here... Just got my shipment of LEAF Batteries from Crusin... they look incredible !!! It was suppose to be a SURPRISE gift for Steve... but I had to ask Steve about them... sooo he knows when he gets home from working on that SMITH CAB OVER conversion..that they are waiting for him. ! Crusin was real nice and helpful and made the whole purchase easy and they look terrific !!! Does anybody have any thoughts on what the charge and discharge voltages should be? Speaking of SMITH Cab over.. we already have an AC Propulsion 150 up for sale on our web page... BUT ... we will also have the AC system out of this Cab Over up for sale soon sooo watch my web page... Anyone out there ever work with these SMITH CAB OVERS ??? WHOA they sure are big !! AUDREY CLUNN -- Steve Clunn Merging the best of the past with the best of the future. www.Greenshedconversions.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVrecord: 0-100kph:1.785s Grimsel.ch e-racer Out-Accelerate Formula1
at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141107/7ecbcebd/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Last EBEAA meeting of the year next Sat 11/15/2014
This Month's Meeting:Chapter Elections/End of Year Party Saturday, Nov 15, 2014 (3rd Saturday) 11 am to 1 pm. Meeting Location: La Val's Pizza, 891 Island Dr, Alameda, CA Visitors welcome, open to the public. As this year winds down, our last meeting of the 2014 will be over pizza and salad and soda at La Val's. We met at 11am because that when La Val's opens, but you are welcome to come earlier to meet in the parking lot. Come join us as we review the EV highlights of the year, share stories and informally show of our EVs in the parking lot. We also hope to plan meeting topics for next year and encourage other members to participate in our chapter's leadership and activities. EVs in parking lot after meeting. www.ebeaa.org -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141107/9f81fce8/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Crusin Batteries
Charge them at 1C to 4.2V don't discharge past 2.5V they are 3.75 volts nominal. From: Steve Clunn via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Crusin Batteries Hi Guys Audrey Clunn here... Just got my shipment of LEAF Batteries from Crusin... they look incredible !!! It was suppose to be a SURPRISE gift for Steve... but I had to ask Steve about them... sooo he knows when he gets home from working on that SMITH CAB OVER conversion..that they are waiting for him. ! Crusin was real nice and helpful and made the whole purchase easy and they look terrific !!! Does anybody have any thoughts on what the charge and discharge voltages should be? Speaking of SMITH Cab over.. we already have an AC Propulsion 150 up for sale on our web page... BUT ... we will also have the AC system out of this Cab Over up for sale soon sooo watch my web page... Anyone out there ever work with these SMITH CAB OVERS ??? WHOA they sure are big !! AUDREY CLUNN -- Steve Clunn Merging the best of the past with the best of the future. www.Greenshedconversions.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141107/05694086/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
On 7 Nov 2014 at 2:07, brucedp5 via EV wrote: Why the push to another way to pay? Gas use has declined steadily since 2005 as fuel-efficient and alternative energy cars have flourished. Right, so let's discourage that. Great. I see this sort of notion and have to conclude that the US has the world's most (literally) backward governments. In most countries, they ENCOURAGE use of EVs and high-MPG ICEVs. Here, we're discouraging them by making them pay an extra tax. These state legislators seem to have forgotten that by taking better care of the environment, EV drivers are SAVING them tax dollars. (As the old saw says, no good deed goes unpunished.) I suppose one reason for the legal difference is that most (all?) European nations have laws requiring them to reduce carbon emissions, though how fully they're enforced I don't know. I'm preaching to the choir, I suppose. Over the past four years California drivers have purchased more than 100,000 plug-in electrical vehicles. Bottom line: Carpool lanes will continue to jam up. From the standpoint of encouraging EV adoption, it appears to me that carpool lane access for EVs has been a huge success in CA. The problem is that it's a self-limiting perquisite. The more vehicles you let in, the less desirable the carpool lanes are. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
Not really! The government must collect taxes to pay for roads. Previously it was done by taxing fuel. You can tax electricity to pay for roads because how would you know which part went into the vehicle. So they have to devise another way Sent from my iPhone On Nov 7, 2014, at 9:36 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On 7 Nov 2014 at 2:07, brucedp5 via EV wrote: Why the push to another way to pay? Gas use has declined steadily since 2005 as fuel-efficient and alternative energy cars have flourished. Right, so let's discourage that. Great. I see this sort of notion and have to conclude that the US has the world's most (literally) backward governments. In most countries, they ENCOURAGE use of EVs and high-MPG ICEVs. Here, we're discouraging them by making them pay an extra tax. These state legislators seem to have forgotten that by taking better care of the environment, EV drivers are SAVING them tax dollars. (As the old saw says, no good deed goes unpunished.) I suppose one reason for the legal difference is that most (all?) European nations have laws requiring them to reduce carbon emissions, though how fully they're enforced I don't know. I'm preaching to the choir, I suppose. Over the past four years California drivers have purchased more than 100,000 plug-in electrical vehicles. Bottom line: Carpool lanes will continue to jam up. From the standpoint of encouraging EV adoption, it appears to me that carpool lane access for EVs has been a huge success in CA. The problem is that it's a self-limiting perquisite. The more vehicles you let in, the less desirable the carpool lanes are. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV-spirits: Use a Halloween Costume for the EV-cause
On 11/06/2014 09:57 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote: On Nov 6, 2014, at 9:54 AM, Alan Brinkman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: How about a used Volt? Or a used Leaf and a low cost beater ICE as a backup? Or a used Smart electric car with a used ICE beater? All suggestions I made. I have a Ford C-Max plug-in hybrid that I like a lot. Less EV range than the Volt--about 25 miles--but it's generally enough for me. It's considerably less expensive than the Volt and carries a lot more. --Rick ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
. And the state gas tax has not been
raised
in 21 years.
Q Why are only gas-type vehicles being taxed and not electric or hybrids?
All of us use the same roads, and it seems only right that all should
participate equally in their upkeep. Am I missing something here?
Barbara Smith
Fremont
A You make a good point, and that is what a VMT fee would rectify. The
idea
is that since hybrids and electric cars pay less in taxes, a tax based on
the number of miles driven would make them pay their fair share.
Q How about doing a report on how electric vehicles are clogging up
carpool
lanes? Before, a carpool lane was used for two or more plus
motorcycles and
transit buses. But now it is also for electric vehicles with carpool
stickers, which defeats the purpose of a carpool lane because it has
almost
become a regular lane. Do electric vehicle owners need a lane specifically
for them?
Alexis Pedroza
Patterson
A They'll have it until 2019, when this perk will end, unless the
Legislature again extends it, as it has three times. As of Sept. 23,
the DMV
has issued the 55,000-maximum green decals allowed by law, and 15,000 more
will be available Jan. 1. Applications for green stickers will continue to
be accepted at this time, but new ones cannot be issued until after
Jan. 1.
And 57,914 white decals have been given out. There is no maximum for them.
Over the past four years California drivers have purchased more than
100,000
plug-in electrical vehicles. Bottom line: Carpool lanes will continue
to jam
up. And when solo drivers can buy their way into more diamond lanes, tolls
will rise to keep traffic in those lanes moving.
[© mercurynews.com]
For EVLN posts use:
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5 reasons to drive electric
http://www.theautofuture.com/2014/11/01/nissan-testing-v2h-technology-leaf-home-charging-units/
Nissan Begins Testing V2H Technology with Leaf-to-Home Charging Units
http://insideevs.com/usage-charging-stations-british-columbia-doubles-august-2013-august-2014/
Public British Columbian EVSE Usage Doubles From Aug 2013 To Aug 2014
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
On 11/07/2014 10:50 AM, Paul Dove via EV wrote: Not really! The government must collect taxes to pay for roads. Previously it was done by taxing fuel. You can tax electricity to pay for roads because how would you know which part went into the vehicle. So they have to devise another way The problem is they keep throwing fair into the equation and that will just make it complicated and expensive. I bet it costs more to collect these devised taxes than they gain. Fair says people using the roads should pay for their upkeep whether they live here or not. Gas tax works in general because if you're from out-of-state but here for any length of time you'll have to buy gas here. And if you're a resident traveling elsewhere you'll be buying your gas elsewhere to pay for road upkeep there. I believe you meant to say can't tax electricity. They could do it by requiring separate metering for EVSEs. Complicated and expensive and doesn't account for out-of-staters. Oregon says they're going to charge 1.5cents per mile for miles traveled within the state for vehicles that get 55mpg or greater. Complicated and expensive to track. I say let's redefine fair a bit to say if you live in the state the roads are your responsibility. Virtually every state has some sort of semi-regular inspection or registration program. Report the current mileage on your car and pay the tax on that (over time would be nice). Do away with the gas tax and make EVERYONE pay this way. Quick and easy to collect and reasonably fair. Perhaps we make it apply to vehicles under 6000 pounds and keep the gas tax for big trucks. They're the ones that cause the most road damage anyway. Of course tax dodgers would register their vehicles in another state but we have that problem now with people trying to avoid property tax. One reason they won't want to do this is because it would suddenly make the tax visible. In my state a 25mpg car will take about 600 gallons to drive 15,000 miles and I'll pay $150 in fuel tax (and about $135 in sales tax). If they charged me a penny a mile, that same 15,000 miles would cost me the same $150 but I would actually see a bill for it. And I wouldn't be paying it a couple dollars at a time like I do now. Legislators know voters hate that kind of thing. --Rick ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Q about using an electronic load.
Roger has some excellent advice here. It reflects a lot of what I do myself. :-) Roger Stockton via EV wrote: Thought I'd mention that while a programmable load is an *excellent* way to discharge when testing batteries, it can be pricey... Indeed. Programmable loads get very expensive if you are dealing with high power (high voltages and/or high currents). They are also effective room heaters. Good in Minnesota winters; but bad in Arizona in the summer when you're already paying to air condition. If you already have a data logger or other means of measuring/controlling a load and charger, then perhaps consider using a passive load in parallel with a smaller electronic load, so that you can save money on the electronic load purchase. A simple QBasic program on an old laptop controlled the relay for the load and another for the charger via the parallel port. This is the approach I use. I have a couple of $50 DAQ118 analog/digital I/O modules that plug into my PC. They have several 12-bit analog inputs (to read voltages, currents, and temperatures), outputs (to throttle the charger, and digital output channels (operate relays to select various loads). They are run by a PC with software written in QuickBASIC. I have an old PC that is too slow for anything modern; but has a parallel port and is rock-solid-reliable and can run tests for days. These modules were bought in 2002. I'm not sure if they are available today, but there are lots of equivalents. I also have a Keithley 576 Measurement and Control system. This is a stand-alone data acquisition controller. Rather tedious to set up, but lots of channels, high precision, and very versatile. I use these with a commercial battery charger for charging, and a custom made load box that basically consists of a bunch of big power resistors, in a box, with a fan, and relays to select the load resistance in a stepwise 1-2-4-8 sequence. I started out with a battery cycler setup consisting of a bank of 12VDC Edison-base (household screw-type) light bulbs Light bulbs are a good *and* cheap load resistor. :-) As Roger says, they have the useful feature of drawing a roughly constant current despite changes in voltage. This is a simple way to get an approximately constant load current despite the sagging voltage as the battery discharges. I've used car headlights (about 4 amps each) and taillights (about 1 amp each) as load resistors for 12v battery testing. A simple QBasic program on an old laptop controlled the relay for the load and another for the charger via the parallel port. An E-meter with the RS232 comms option provided voltage, current, etc. measurements to the QBasic program. This describes the most common load tester I use. I have a few E-Meters / Link 10 / ProLink meters (all the same meter, but sold respectively by Cruising Equipment / Heart Interface / and now Xantrex). These measure volts/amps/watts/amphours/watthours/time/temperature and send the data to a PC via an RS-232 serial port. I have a QuickBASIC program that logs, plots, and prints the data. The controller is an old Manzanita Micro Rudman Regulator. It has an output that switches a relay to select between charge and discharge, and trimpots to select the max and min voltage at which to switch between charge and discharge. This setup has been documented in the EVDL archives. I also built my own stand-alone battery tester/cycler, which includes the charger, constant-current load, and metering for volts, amps, amphours, temperature, etc. It is documented at http://www3.telus.net/nook/balancerland/cycler/index.htm This stuff is not exactly hard to build yourself, either from scratch or cobbled together using whatever you have on hand. But it does take a fair amount of time and effort to sort it all out and figure out how to use it. -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
Paul Dove via EV wrote: Not really! The government must collect taxes to pay for roads. Previously it was done by taxing fuel. I don't think any reasonable person objects to paying taxes to support our highway infrastructure. But the *way* it's being done with ICEs vs. EVs violates people's sense of fair play. ICEs: Unlike everything else, the taxes on gasoline are hidden. You don't get an itemized receipt that shows the amount for fuel, and the amount for taxes. They sneak it in so most people are unaware that they are paying it. Doing it this way encourages consumption. EVs: They make the tax a huge in your face lump sum payment. That alarms people, and discourages them from buying an EV. An additional issue is that many states use fuel taxes as a cash cow that goes into the general fund for all sorts of non-highway-related uses. People are much less likely to support a tax when they don't know how the money will be spent. You can tax electricity to pay for roads because how would you know which part went into the vehicle. I assume you meant to say you *can't* tax the electricity used for EVs separately? But you CAN. When I lived in Michigan, they required that I pay a sales and USE tax on motor vehicle fuel. So I had a separate meter in the garage, that showed what I used for EV charging. (It also counted the garage lights, but that was trivial in comparison). At first, I had to send a form to the state quarterly to pay the use tax. It was tiny; a couple dollars every 3 months. Then they changed me to annual filing. Then they said don't' bother -- annual totals under $50 don't need to be paid. -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Q about using an electronic load.
, which includes the charger, constant-current load, and metering for volts, amps, amphours, temperature, etc. It is documented at http://www3.telus.net/nook/balancerland/cycler/index.htm This stuff is not exactly hard to build yourself, either from scratch or cobbled together using whatever you have on hand. But it does take a fair amount of time and effort to sort it all out and figure out how to use it. -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141107/65c7de7c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
The fair answer is simple. Currently EV's get a free ride on the roads but
gas cars get a free ride on the environmental damage they cause. This
disparity should be eliminated ON BOTH SIDES. That is, for every dollar of
road tax you add to the EV, add the same Dollar to the gas tax for the
environment.
Done, Fair, move on.
Bob, WB4APR
-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 5:08 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@
plugins
Blaming EVs 4clogging hov/carpool lanes toll$ will ri$e
http://www.mercurynews.com/mr-roadshow/ci_26822022/roadshow-california-test-fees-number-miles-driven
Roadshow: California to test mileage-based fees By Gary Richards 11/02/2014
[image
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site568/2014/1101/20141101__teslaxc~1.JPG
John Glenney, 62, of Lexington, Ky., drove his Tesla Model S across the
United States using only the company's Supercharging stations. (Bay Area
News Group) ]
Q Will you please explain how the new law Gov. Jerry Brown just signed that
will charge drivers in California for every mile a car drives will work?
When will this go into effect?
Betty Weldon
A Don't panic, for nothing is going to happen overnight. A few weeks ago
Brown signed into law the first test of a proposal to charge drivers by the
number of miles driven. The bill creates a panel to oversee a pilot project
that could be in place by 2018. California now becomes the largest state to
consider charging VMT fees (for vehicle miles traveled).
Details have yet to be worked out, but Oregon will soon be testing a VMT fee
beginning July 1. Details on that program:
It applies only to vehicles that get 55 mpg (electric and select plug-in
hybrids) and are model 2015 or newer.
Oregon drivers would pay 1.5 cents for every mile they travel in the state.
The 5,000 drivers are all volunteers.
This will not replace Oregon's state gas tax, but will be another way to
collect road fees.
Officials in other states are also looking at VMT fees and they'll all be
watching California, where 17 percent of the nation's car sales take place.
Why the push to another way to pay? Gas use has declined steadily since 2005
as fuel-efficient and alternative energy cars have flourished. A decade ago,
Californians consumed nearly 16 billion gallons of gas annually. That figure
dropped to 14.5 billion last year. And the state gas tax has not been raised
in 21 years.
Q Why are only gas-type vehicles being taxed and not electric or hybrids?
All of us use the same roads, and it seems only right that all should
participate equally in their upkeep. Am I missing something here?
Barbara Smith
Fremont
A You make a good point, and that is what a VMT fee would rectify. The idea
is that since hybrids and electric cars pay less in taxes, a tax based on
the number of miles driven would make them pay their fair share.
Q How about doing a report on how electric vehicles are clogging up carpool
lanes? Before, a carpool lane was used for two or more plus motorcycles and
transit buses. But now it is also for electric vehicles with carpool
stickers, which defeats the purpose of a carpool lane because it has almost
become a regular lane. Do electric vehicle owners need a lane specifically
for them?
Alexis Pedroza
Patterson
A They'll have it until 2019, when this perk will end, unless the
Legislature again extends it, as it has three times. As of Sept. 23, the DMV
has issued the 55,000-maximum green decals allowed by law, and 15,000 more
will be available Jan. 1. Applications for green stickers will continue to
be accepted at this time, but new ones cannot be issued until after Jan. 1.
And 57,914 white decals have been given out. There is no maximum for them.
Over the past four years California drivers have purchased more than 100,000
plug-in electrical vehicles. Bottom line: Carpool lanes will continue to jam
up. And when solo drivers can buy their way into more diamond lanes, tolls
will rise to keep traffic in those lanes moving.
[© mercurynews.com]
For EVLN posts use:
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble+template%2FNamlServlet.jtp%3Fmacro%3Dsearch_page%26node%3D413529%26query%3Devln+-re%26sort%3Ddate
http://www.citizen-times.com/story/opinion/2014/11/03/reasons-drive-electric/18386219/
5 reasons to drive electric
http://www.theautofuture.com/2014/11/01/nissan-testing-v2h-technology-leaf-home-charging-units/
Nissan Begins Testing V2H Technology with Leaf-to-Home Charging Units
http://insideevs.com/usage-charging-stations-british-columbia-doubles-august-2013-august-2014/
Public British Columbian EVSE Usage Doubles From Aug 2013 To Aug 2014
+
EVLN: SR-Auto bling-tuning of BMW i3 EV
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
Re: [EVDL] Q about using an electronic load.
Equipment / Heart Interface / and now Xantrex). These measure volts/amps/watts/amphours/watthours/time/temperature and send the data to a PC via an RS-232 serial port. I have a QuickBASIC program that logs, plots, and prints the data. The controller is an old Manzanita Micro Rudman Regulator. It has an output that switches a relay to select between charge and discharge, and trimpots to select the max and min voltage at which to switch between charge and discharge. This setup has been documented in the EVDL archives. I also built my own stand-alone battery tester/cycler, which includes the charger, constant-current load, and metering for volts, amps, amphours, temperature, etc. It is documented at http://www3.telus.net/nook/balancerland/cycler/index.htm This stuff is not exactly hard to build yourself, either from scratch or cobbled together using whatever you have on hand. But it does take a fair amount of time and effort to sort it all out and figure out how to use it. -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141107/65c7de7c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- www.electric-lemon.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141107/3f4259ad/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
On 7 Nov 2014 at 13:15, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: Currently EV's get a free ride on the roads but gas cars get a free ride on the environmental damage they cause. This is the point I was trying to make when I said by taking better care of the environment, EV drivers are SAVING [the states] tax dollars. You said it more succinctly. Today there's an undercurrent of anti-environmentalism in the US, a backlash if you will. This extends into government in many areas. Lee's assessment that they make the tax a huge 'in your face' lump sum payment [to discourage people] from buying an EV is right on. I wonder if at least some of the diminution in fuel tax revenue isn't just a product of a weak economy and increased unemployment. I don't have any numbers, but I'd think that's a more significant contributor than the relatively small number of people with EVs and more-efficient ICEVs. Thus I suspect that revenue loss is only part of the reason for this proposal, and in some cases maybe not even the primary one. Another major reason for it might well be to deliberately punish and discourage greenies. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
Coming soon. More stuff we need to discourage, because in some way it reduces tax revenues * high recycle households. * healthy people. * gardeners * wells and septic tanks * solar panels * bicyclers * joggers * people who don't consume alcohol and tobacco It's obvious these people aren't paying their fair share and refuse to join the lowest common denominator. Now, these tax avoiders, might claim that their actions actually benefit society and as such don't need to be taxed, but these sorts of win-win arguments are self-serving and therefore wrong. No one must be allowed to win. If we all work together we can create new intrusive technologies for tax collection...creating new jobs in state goverment in the process...which will further require new taxes to pay for, in a never ending spiral of job creation. As an added benefit, these new intrusive technologies will benefit global marketing divisions with all sorts of new consumer data, and help our good friends at the NSA stop the non-taxpaying-terrorists. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141107/30e01078/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Q about using an electronic load.
Peter Gabrielsson via EV wrote: One relatively cheap way of doing high power cycle testing is to cycle power between a large battery bank and the test battery using a bidirectional DCDC converter. The DCDC is simple since it's just a switching pole with an inductor and some controls. A DC motor controller with regen capability can be used as the DCDC converter, the controls should have a constant torque (current) mode for it to be useful. I've tried this. A motor controller has a significant amount of input ripple current, and a *huge* amount of output ripple current. You have to add inductors on the input and output to approximate DC. Since motor controllers handle high currents and switch at relatively low frequencies, these inductors are *big*. What I used instead were Vicor modules. They switch at high frequencies, so the input and output filters are far smaller. Their internal filters are already adequate for battery testing. The output voltage and current can be adjusted with their TRIM pin. The output voltage can be higher or lower than the input voltage; important if you're ping-ponging power between two same-voltage batteries. For example, a VI-202 has a nominal 12vdc input (10-20v), nominal 15v output (adjustable 7.5-16.5v), and 6.7 amp max current. When I got mine, the VI-202 was $158 direct from Vicor. Vicors are built to operate in parallel, so you can use as many as needed for high power. PS: I just checked eBay and see that someone has VI-202 modules for $99 each or 15 for $479 if anyone is interested. I have no connection with the seller. The DC/DC doesn't have to be bidirectional; it's much easier to simply include a reversing relay that swaps input and output. -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Crusin Batteries
Thanks for the kind words Audrey. I recommend using a BMS that will start shunting at 4.1vdc and limit over discharge to 3.0vdc. Some prefer to stop charging at 4.0, thinking they may last longer, probably not loosing much by doing that. Enjoy. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Crusin-Batteries-tp4672428p4672449.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
Lawrence Winiarski via EV wrote: Coming soon. More stuff we need to discourage, because in some way it reduces tax revenues Thanks for my laugh of the day, Lawrence! :-) It reminds me of A Christmas Car, a parody of Dickens' A Christmas Carol I wrote years ago. http://www.evdl.org/pages/xmascar.html -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVrecord: 0-100kph:1.785s Grimsel.ch e-racer Out-Accelerate Formula1
On Nov 7, 2014, at 6:47 AM, Chris Tromley via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: With all due respect to the Swiss researchers, I believe Plasma Boy was faster than that a few years ago in his White Zombie - a door-slammer Datsun 1200 conversion. Not just Plasma Boy, but several others, as well. There's been a lot of discussion on the NEDRA list over this very article, with many pointing out both how many NEDRA members have this particular record well and truly beat as well as the general confusion regarding records and records bodies in the first place. A lot of it has to do with Guinness, and the fact that their standard is basically, nobody else has told us about this particular record before. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141107/02101f92/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Crusin Batteries
Hi Crusin and All, When are the Leaf batteries you promised me going to come? Jerry Dycus From: Cruisin via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Crusin Batteries Thanks for the kind words Audrey. I recommend using a BMS that will start shunting at 4.1vdc and limit over discharge to 3.0vdc. Some prefer to stop charging at 4.0, thinking they may last longer, probably not loosing much by doing that. Enjoy. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Crusin-Batteries-tp4672428p4672449.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141107/cb7d4a81/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Range vs Speed
Nope, it is still only SPEED that has the impact on air drag. Yes, how you accelerate gets you to speed faster, but it is still only speed that causes air drag. And the below advice is just plain wrong. Getting on the regen”hard” means remaining at the highest speed for the longest possible time before slamming to a stop. No, far better to coast as long as possible to that next stop. Thus reducing the speed sooner. Bob *From:* Michael Ross [mailto:michael.e.r...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 1:54 PM *To:* Robert Bruninga; Electric Vehicle Discussion List *Subject:* Re: [EVDL] Range vs Speed Yep, It is the speed. However, if you always accelerate hard you will spend more time cubing your higher speed as drag losses, than if you take it easy and go easy cubing a lower speed for a longer time. So, take it easy speeding up, and get on the regen hard to slow down (reduce that cubed high speed as much as possible). On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Slower acceleration leads to lower average speed. Which leads to lower wind losses. Not at tall. You can take all the time y ou want to get to 70 PMH, but it is not acceleration that is causing the wind loss, it is *speed*. The wind losses are proportional to the cube of *speed* period. You can accelerate to a high speed or you can coast down a hill, in either case, it is *speed* that is the only variable we are talking about there. The fact that acceleration causes speed is a second-order effect. And just confuses the layman Bob -Original Message- From: Willie2 [mailto:wmckem...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 9:51 AM To: Robert Bruninga; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range vs Speed Generally, correct. On 11/06/2014 07:49 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: Energy used in driving is simple physics: Everything you put into acceleration you get back in Momentum. Everything you put into a hill, you get back as potential energy. Everything you put into braking is LOST (regen gains some back). Wind resistance goes up as the cube of speed. True, but I believe, per unit distance traveled, energy lost to wind friction goes up with the square of the speed. That is, in a given amount of time, you cover more distance at high speed than at lower. You experience the higher wind resistance for a shorter period of time. So the only real control you have over energy is keeping the speed (wind resistance) down. Gas cars are actually MORE efficient at high acceleration when the throttle plate is wide open and the pumping losses are minimized. So creeping away from a traffic light does not really gain anything. BUT, if it is a typical gas car and the engine then keeps running during the coast phase, that too is 100% waste (engine running but doing nothing). When people say go light on the accelerator they are not talking about the rate of acceleration at all. They are talking about DON'T OVER ACCELERATE beyond what it takes to coast to the next stop without having to use the brakes. Slower acceleration leads leads to lower average speed. Which leads to lower wind losses. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama* Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. *Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html* A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141107/69c637fc/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Fast charging in The Netherlands
... a new company website who claim to bring fast charging throughout The Netherlands: http://www.fastned.nl/en -- It might be a good investment now, while all the suckers are piling on, but I'd plan on getting my money out soon, before the EV motoring public learns that it is far more convenient to just plug in at home and pay a modest price for electicity and the ultimate in convenience rather than only charge from highway fast chargers 40 km away at PREMIUM rates. Their stated philosophy is that charging at home is like buying an oil tank and putting it in the garage and putting in a liter of gas every day. They could not be more wrong. Though of course they are raking in the dough from investors still stuck in a gas-tank/gas-station/fill-up-while-waiting legacy thinking. Bob, Wb4APR ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Q about using an electronic load.
Michael Ross wrote: I think I need to be a notch or two above garage testing. To provide results worth referencing. I do have to be frugal and not spend where good things can be fabricated. We want to be cost effective for clients that aren't at the million$ a year in sales level. Thanks for clarifying that this is NOT a personal project, but a commercial one. I think you will find that if you are doing testing for hire, that there is significant value in the credibility that comes with using professional grade commercial equipment versus explaining to the client that the coat hanger in that garbage can full of water really is a sensible piece of equipment for the test they are paying you to execute ;^ The cost effectiveness for smaller clients comes from *you* bearing the multi-$1000 investment in a proper active load and data acquisition and control equipment and possibly power supplies (for charging), and then recovering the cost over multiple clients and over time so that they have access to this level of test capability, when needed, for a much smaller up-front or per-instance expenditure. If you are able to consider sufficiently large electronic loads, then ones that can push the energy back into the grid rather than dissipating it as heat become an option. This capability doesn’t really become available until you are looking at loads of at least 6kW, and you should check with your local utility to see what sort of barriers will face you in trying to connect such a load before buying. I have a pretty comprehensive data acquisition system, National Instruments cRIO controller, 32, 5V biderectional DIO channels, 8 channels of high speed 5V bidirectional DIO, 16 channels of 24V DO, 8 channels of analog input. I have a couple 6 1/2 digit DMMs and 3 20 channel cards to use in them (slow but accurate). All that can be programmed with some sophistication using LabVIEW. Great! For battery testing you generally don't need particularly fast scan speeds. I'm not sure just what your 6.5-digit DMMs are, but they sound similar to the Agilent units I use for battery testing. It is particularly nice that they can directly measure pack and cell voltages as well as shunts and thermocouples for monitoring temperature. As long as the number of channels you are scanning isn't too great, it is possible to get at least a few readings per second in the uncommon event that your test requires it. More typically, recording data at 1-10 second intervals is plenty fast for battery cycle testing. I won't need PLCs. Also great, though I referred to use of a *PC*, same as you will use to run your LabVIEW application to control things ;^ For cell testing I have an EMS 7.5V 300A 1700W supply. I have not really used it, so I don't know exactly how to control it automatically. It could do cell modules, but not packs. Then I have a couple of transformers in Lestronic II PbSO4 chargers 24V 25Amp, and 36V 30A. And I have a 480V:120V 7.5KVA transformer that ought to be useful somehow. The power supply sounds like it could be useful, especially if equipped with IEEE-488 and if a LabVIEW driver is available for it. The transformers sound less promising, at least for this purpose. Really, it comes down to the sort of clientele you will serve and what sort of testing they require. They may want you to test specific cells/modules, either recharging them using a provided charger or using your programmable supply to implement some specified charge regimen. You may need to consider investing in water baths to maintain consistent temperatures throughout the test pack, and/or an environmental chamber to allow testing at elevated or reduced temperatures. If you are going to test Li chemistries, especially at high rates and/or elevated temperatures, investigate the safety requirements for appropriate fire suppression and ventilation, etc. If you will be testing flooded lead acid, investigate the spill containment and personal safety requirements (eye wash, emergency shower, etc.), as well as hydrogen sensing equipment and ventilation requirements. A properly equipped (inert gas purge, explosion proof locking door, suitable pressure relief fearture, possibly reinforced to handle the weight of larger (especially lead-acid) packs, etc.) environmental chamber runs about $60K, so once again part of the value provided for smaller clients is the ability for them to avoid the need to make this sort of investment in test equipment. I think I also want some reference standards. But, I might make them, or settle for the calibrated DMMs. The route you choose may depend on what you already do for other equipment in your lab, however, the approach we've taken is to maintain the calibration on the DMM/data acquisition units and rely on them to control the loads and power supplies so that the loads and power supplies themselves don't need to be kept calibrated.
Re: [EVDL] Q about using an electronic load.
On Fri Nov 07 16:07:19 PST 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said: If you are able to consider sufficiently large electronic loads, then ones that can push the energy back into the grid rather than dissipating it as heat become an option. This capability doesn?t really become available until you are looking at loads of at least 6kW, and you should check with your local utility to see what sort of barriers will face you in trying to connect such a load before buying. Well, there are grid-tie inverters down as small as 200W or so readily available, often down to 12v input. -- Try my Sensible Email package! https://sourceforge.net/projects/sensibleemail/ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Q about using an electronic load.
John Lussmyer wrote: If you are able to consider sufficiently large electronic loads, then ones that can push the energy back into the grid rather than dissipating it as heat become an option. This capability doesn?t really become available until you are looking at loads of at least 6kW, and you should check with your local utility to see what sort of barriers will face you in trying to connect such a load before buying. Well, there are grid-tie inverters down as small as 200W or so readily available, often down to 12v input. And these can certainly be a viable option, IF the batteries you are testing are compatible with the (typically) narrow input range of such inverters. If you need to be able to test battery packs of arbitrary voltage and perhaps discharge to unusual (at least for typical lead-acid packs) end-of-discharge voltages, then off-the-shelf inverters may not be viable. Cheers, Roger. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Crusin Batteries
I have no Leaf in stock, with back orders for full packs. You only wanted 12 modules, suggest you use the Volt, much better. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Crusin-Batteries-tp4672428p4672459.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
Ben wrote - Put simply, the government has no business knowing how much I drive where and when. So I guess you take the battery out of your cellphone when you're driving... Rush Tucson AZ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Q about using an electronic load.
will serve and what sort of testing they require. They may want you to test specific cells/modules, either recharging them using a provided charger or using your programmable supply to implement some specified charge regimen. You may need to consider investing in water baths to maintain consistent temperatures throughout the test pack, and/or an environmental chamber to allow testing at elevated or reduced temperatures. If you are going to test Li chemistries, especially at high rates and/or elevated temperatures, investigate the safety requirements for appropriate fire suppression and ventilation, etc. If you will be testing flooded lead acid, investigate the spill containment and personal safety requirements (eye wash, emergency shower, etc.), as well as hydrogen sensing equipment and ventilation requirements. A properly equipped (inert gas purge, explosion proof locking door, suitable pressure relief fearture, possibly reinforced to handle the weight of larger (especially lead-acid) packs, etc.) environmental chamber runs about $60K, so once again part of the value provided for smaller clients is the ability for them to avoid the need to make this sort of investment in test equipment. I think I also want some reference standards. But, I might make them, or settle for the calibrated DMMs. The route you choose may depend on what you already do for other equipment in your lab, however, the approach we've taken is to maintain the calibration on the DMM/data acquisition units and rely on them to control the loads and power supplies so that the loads and power supplies themselves don't need to be kept calibrated. Cheers and good luck! Roger. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141107/145c7c37/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins
And don't forget plug-in Hybrids. They can go on out of state or in state, use gasoline (and pay gas tax), use electricity (and potentially be taxed via odometer also, resulting in doubly taxed, no taxed or any combination therein. Not really! The government must collect taxes to pay for roads. Previously it was done by taxing fuel. You can tax electricity to pay for roads because how would you know which part went into the vehicle. So they have to devise another way Not previously. It's STILL done that way. There isn't a damn thing wrong with the current system.If they want more money, just raise the gas tax. If they are too chicken to do that, then they can just accept the consequences. Adding some stupid tax on cars that get more than 55 mpg or EV's is a damn drop in the bucket as far as revenue goes. This isn't about revenue. It's about something else. I want to stress that the whole thing is ridiculous. Even if you doubly taxed every single EV it would be a drop in the ocean for actual tax revenues. The whole fairness thing is a giant red herring devised by a dozen people in the dept of Transportation in Oregon, (As if the public was ever clammoring for taxing electric cars ) This group originally formed about 13 years ago, to get a 2 million dollar Bush-era grant to try and tax people for driving during rush hour...so rich people could drive unimpeded without the riff raff clogging up their freeways.The did a pilot study with GPS installed and they did their stupid study and used the money. then instead of just disbanding, they need to keep the funding so they tried to get it expanded and the public overwhelmingly said NO to GPS. Now their cushy jobs were at risk so they dusted off the same study to do try and foist the same thing on electric cars and got more tax money. But nobody wants a GPS in their car. And the shennanigans at the NSA have made this even more politically difficult. So now they are desperately lobbying to keep the funding coming and using the crumbling infrastructure arguments and trying to get the public mad about EV cars...yeah right. I'd guess 90% of the public doesn't even realize there is a tax on gasolineand probably only 1% have a clue about the amounts. Because they never actually pay a bill. So this whole thing is about job security of a few select people who have already spent millions of dollars of tax payer money to collect a few thousand dollars in tax. They bombard state governments all over the nation with fear mongering studies indicating drastically falling revenues over the next 10 years..and our elected representatives are wetting themselves with math and chart anxiety that they don't even understand. The Oregon group keeps pounding into their ears that EV drivers will destroy our nations infrastructureSo they create task forces that they can blame if anything bad happens. Also because there is no such thing as math at our nations law schools, these same geniuses will spend billions of dollars to figure out how to generate millions in EV-taxes. No joke. It's not about revenue in 2012 their pilot program cost the taxpayer $1,515,467. It brought in a whopping $2,840 in tax Their NEW 5000 volunteer program allows 1500 gas vehicle which get LESS than 17 mpg to pay a tax equivalent to 19 mpg. In other words it creates a SUBSIDY FOR GAS GUZZLERS SO THEY PAY LESS TAX And here we are.. Source http://www.nascio.org/awards/nominations2014/2014/2014OR4-Oregon-ODOT%20-%202014%20Road%20Usage%20Charge%20Program.pdf and http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/RUFPP/docs/SB_810_Enrolled_Road_User_Charges_%282013%29.pdf -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141107/04f1d65e/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVI Power Pack (older AVCON charger) not working
I need some help, before I dig into the circuit board inside the EVI Power Pack that I wired to 240V AC but got no response, even after pushing the test button to simulate an EV had connected to the AVCON pilot signal. I checked that the unit received the proper 120+120V (because the internal transformer to power the logic board is wired to receive 120V, which is odd since it has two 120V windings that are in parallel, instead of putting them in series for 240V, but oh well. I checked the output from its internal power supply and saw that the transformer delivers about +/- 16V AC that gets rectified and regulated by a simple LDO to 12V, so it appears that the circuit receives power, but the many chips on the board I did not check yet, hoping to find someone who either has a schematic or who has experience trouble-shooting those old units. Regards, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info http://www.cvandewater.infom Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141107/03ed15f8/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
