Re: [EVDL] Insurance Woes
Hi Peri, Either you are very lucky or you have built up about maximum good-driver discount, which can reduce premium by around 70% compared to having someone who is relatively new insured (like my son who started driving recently) Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: Peri Hartman [mailto:pe...@kotatko.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2015 9:47 PM To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re[2]: [EVDL] Insurance Woes You made me look up my figures. I think I'll disagree: my 2011 Leaf cost about $400 for collision comprehensive for the first year. Now it's about $500 a year (not sure why it's gone up). Regardless, for the first few years I've spent about $2000. Not unreasonable for a car that cost about $30K. In a few more years, as the Leaf's value decreases, I think I'll agree with you. At some point, it's cheaper to buy an equivalent car than pay that part of the insurance. On the other hand, I'm paying about $300/year for collision comprehensive for my 15 year old honda. It's probably worth about $3K. So, that's 10 years of insurance. Maybe it is worth paying :) Peri -- Original Message -- From: Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 11-Mar-15 9:30:25 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Insurance Woes The only moment that you want full coverage is either - you have so much money in the car that you can't afford to lose it - if you have financed the car, because then it is not yours. Any time you own it and can survive its loss (financially) then it often makes no sense to do full coverage. YMMV. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Roland via EV Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2015 7:23 PM To: ieriotjre3p; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Insurance Woes The Hartford is the one that I have all my vehicles insure as liability only. If one car is worth over 100k and the other is a 1955 shop pickup worth $500, they are both insure at the same liability cost. You can use the same liability card to cover other people vehicles or a rental car you drive too. I never insure my vehicles with collision coverage, because the cost of the collision insurance for the past 60 years could buy many vehicles. I have one vehicle in storage which is a 1973 Manta Mirage that only has 53 miles on it, I just insure that one for comprehension and glass damage with The Hartford. Roland - Original Message - From: ieriotjre3p via EVmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.orgmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2015 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Insurance Woes The Hartford will insure your EV, conversions and OEM -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Insurance- Woes-tp4674179p4674210.htmlhttp://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413 529.n4.nabble.com/Insurance-Woes-tp4674179p4674210.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usubhttp://www.evdl.org/help/index .html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.orghttp://lists.evdl.org/li stinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRAhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDR A) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150311/71a a7f93/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-S drivers crying foul, 'Grousing is ludicrous'
, said Brown, 28, who is now considering
trading in a car with just 300 miles on the odometer. The company is
moving
in the right direction -- they just upset some of their customers with the
time frame on the release of the D.
To be sure, not all Tesla loyalists or Model S owners are upset, noting
that
the speed of innovation at the company is something that should be
applauded.
If you want a car that changes only once every year, go buy something
besides a Tesla and stop telling Elon how to run his business, one poster
wrote on Tesla's blog.
A counter petition -- asking Tesla Motors to disregard the retrofit
petition
-- has been launched on Change.org as well.
This is ludicrous, wrote Brian Sherin of Santa Cruz. It's like saying
Apple has to give original iPhone owners a new iPhone every time the model
is upgraded.
Some analysts say the complaining is not a big deal.
Grousing about AWD is a non-starter. The X (an SUV expected next year) is
AWD and this D model is just a way to test the AWD platform before it goes
into production in the X, said Theo O'Neill, an analyst with Ascendiant
Capital Markets. On the other hand, this is the kind of grousing you hear
in the service department at your BMW dealer. These customers are picky,
and
it just means that Tesla is now a real car company.
Mihail Mihaylov, 36, of Chicago, spent roughly $140,000 for a fully loaded
Model S Performance model and got his car Sept. 29. When he learned that
Musk had announced autopilot features, he drove to the Villa Park,
Illinois,
service center to see if his car was autopilot-enabled, but was told his
car
does not have the hardware required. A Tesla salesperson offered him a
trade-in for about $110,000 -- something Mihaylov finds unacceptable.
The Model S now has these new features, but mine doesn't have it,
Mihaylov
said. So some people got lucky, and I am not so lucky. I've had the car
for
two weeks, and it has less than 1,000 miles on it, and it is already
devalued. We are talking here a lot of money.
[© Monterey County Herald]
For EVLN posts use:
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http://business.scoop.co.nz/2015/03/05/bridges-pushes-nz-as-most-ready-for-electric-cars/
Bridges pushes NZ as 'most ready' for EVs
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3objectid=11412263
http://www.kelownanow.com/watercooler/news/news/Kelowna/15/03/04/Kelowna_s_Getting_the_Job_Done_on_Electric_Bikes
City of kelowna.ca Electric Bike Fleet Cruising around save money
http://ecomento.com/2015/03/04/tesla-2000-superchargers-worldwide/
Tesla celebrates 2,000 Superchargers worldwide (w/infographic)
+
EVLN: $33.5k or $229mo Cheaper VW e-Golf Limited Edition Trim r:83mi
+
EVLN: BBC-TG-Clarkson suspended mislead the public about Tesla EVs
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[EVDL] EVLN: Renault Twizy Kangoo EVs to be sold in Canada
http://www.insidercarnews.com/the-french-are-invading-with-the-twizy-electric-car/
The French Are Invading With The Twizy Electric Car
by Steven Symes Mar 6, 2015
[image / Renault
http://www.insidercarnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Renault_32296_global_en_cropped.jpg
Renault Twizy
]
Long ago Americans had the freedom to buy French cars, but then Renault and
PSA Peugeot Citroen left and never returned. Now that Italian brands Fiat
and Alfa Romeo have stormed back on the scene, it seems that Renault is
thinking that North Americans want to give it another whirl.
The French invasion will be staged from the most logical location: French
Canada. The Renault Twizy will be front-and-center during the 2015 Quebec
City International Auto Show. Usually the show isn’t on most people’s radar,
but it’s not every day that a European mass market car company begins
staging a comeback in the region.
The story about the possible return of Renault and the introduction of the
Twizy to the North American automotive market was broken by Le Soleil, a
publication from Quebec. Emmanuelle Desbrosse, who is Renault’s lead for
electric vehicles, sent an email to Le Soleil and indicated that many people
had asked for the Twizy to be sold in Canada. As a result, Renault is
apparently in the process of getting government approval.
Considering that the U.S. has a dynamic electric vehicle market, it could
only be a matter of time before the Twizy hits New York, Boston, San
Francisco, and other crowded cities. While the car admittedly looks a little
ridiculous, especially when shown near the likes of a Ram 3500 or Chevy
Suburban, in cramped urban areas it could prove to be quite useful. One
version has two seats, one in front of the other, while another has just one
seat and a cargo area, making for a runabout delivery vehicle certain
businesses could find useful.
Even more compelling is the fact that Renault could be testing the waters
for its Kangoo SE van, which reportedly was created to pass safety standards
in Canada and the United States ...
[© insidercarnews]
http://www.lapresse.ca/le-soleil/affaires/automobile/201502/06/01-4842050-une-renault-au-34e-salon-de-lauto-de-quebec.php
[Frenchtranslate.googleEnglish]
Renault in 34th Auto Show in Quebec City
Publié le 06 février 2015 Paul-Robert Raymond
[image / Renault
http://images.lpcdn.ca/641x427/201502/06/966621-renault-twizy-vehicule-biplace-decline.jpg
The Renault Twizy is a two-seater, available in two versions, one limited to
45 km / h and the other at 80 km / h.
]
(Quebec) A copy of all electric neighborhood vehicle Renault Twizy will be
exhibited at the 34th International Motor Show in Quebec (SIAQ), thus
constituting a North American first for the French manufacturer.
The presence of Renault car manufacturer could mean a return on and off
Quebec roads. According to information recently obtained by The Sun,
Renault seek a Quebec distributor to first sell the Twizy. If the
experiment proves successful, other all-electric models could be added to
the distributed line this side of the ocean.
The details of this Renault can return could be disclosed to the day SIAQ
the media Monday, March 2nd.
The Twizy (photo) is a two-seater, available in two versions. The first,
whose maximum speed is 45 km / h would be part of the low-speed vehicles,
which can be registered but restricted to public roads with speed limits of
50 km / h. The second version of the Twizy reaches a top speed of 80 km /
h, allowing it to access the complete road network.
In addition to the premiere, the SIAQ also focusing on the coming of the
hypervoiture Porsche 918 Spyder, worth more than $ 2 million. This hybrid
sports car can do 0 to 100 km / h in 2.6 seconds. The SIAQ take place from
March 3 to 8, at ExpoCité fairgrounds.
[© BLOOMBERG]
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[EVDL] Flow cell concept car has 1,000 km range
Flow cell concept car has 1,000 km range www.ecnmag.com/news/2015/03/flow-cell-concept-car-has-1000-km-range A concept car using the first low-voltage flow cell engine in the world was unveiled at the Geneva International Motor Show on March 3. The Quantino, one of two new models introduced by nanoFlowcell at the show, is powered by a two-sided flow cell. It’s roughly the same technology behind the other new offering from nanoFlowcell, the sporty Quant F, except with a lower voltage. Len Moskowitz ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
Dave, It sounds like you haven't seen the video of EM demonstrating the Tesla battery swap. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_XEv2f_Uhw On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 8:44 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: As I see it, the model for successful battery exchange in EVs is the lowly flashlight (torch). The cells come in 4 basic sizes, with two of these most commonly used (AA and D). Effectively, you have 2 or maybe 4 tiers of energy content and power capacity; then, within each tier, you use more cells to get more of both. To make battery exchange work with EVs, you'd have to get all the EV manufacturers to agree on one or two standard module sizes. They'd need standardized connections that mate as the battery is installed, just as flashlight battery connections do. You'd have different capacities (through different chemistries) in a given module size, and also vary the capacity by the number of modules the EV used. For affordability and convenience, you'd have to fully automate the exchange process. The driver would pull into the exchange bay, pay the operator, wait a couple of minutes, and drive out with a freshly charged battery. Most likely the modules would have to attach from the bottom, with hydraulic lifts and conveyors doing the work. You could have one pit to remove the spent battery, and another to raise a fresh one into place. The EV would be moved from one pit to the next on tracks. You should be able to exchange an EV's battery even faster than a gas pump can fill an ICEV's tank. This model might have worked IF all the EV manufacturers could have agreed on it from the start. But making that happen would have been a huge challenge, and now it's just about impossible. Then, building all the exchange stations would require a stupendous investment. All this is pretty daunting. Just ask Shai Agassi. So, I wouldn't say that battery exchange is a stupid idea, but I'm afraid it's not a very practical one. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150313/eccb2cba/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] Re: Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
I suspect that Tesla also designed the battery swap capability into their cars because it makes a very effective service strategy. They can quickly take a pack out, run diagnostics, swap a bad module, and install it back into the car without investing much time and effort. It also makes it easy for them to offer a pack upgrade to current customers when the pack technology advances enough. Another source of revenue. Mike On March 12, 2015 3:36:20 PM MDT, Ed Blackmond via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Mar 12, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Larry Gales via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Actually, I have thought that battery swapping might make sense if you simply lease the use of a battery, rather than own it. I completely agree. Consider the life of a battery pack. It might start out with a guaranteed capacity of 60KWH (~200 to 250 miles). After some period of time (maybe several years) it will no longer have this capacity, but can be leased with a guaranteed capacity of 45KWH. After some period of time it will no longer have this capacity, but can be leased with a guaranteed capacity of 30KWH. This also gives drivers the option of leasing a lower capacity pack for normal daily usage. When a larger pack is needed, simply swap to a larger pack and lease it while needed. Eventually it will no longer be useful for mobile application, but still adequate for stationary applications (e.g. grid stability for alternate energy generation systems). When it is no longer useful for these applications, it can be recycled into a new pack. The electronics and the interconnects can be used directly, while the cells cells can be recycled for their constituent materials. I think such a battery leasing model will be a good business opportunity in the near future. Ed As long as the batteries owned by a company remain within spec, say 90%, then it does not matter what battery you have. You simply can forget about the battery, and on those occasions where you need 2 minute full recharge, you can have it. This would be particularity useful for long haul truck that can't afford 30 minute stops every 100 miles On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 12:42 PM, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: That feature was designed in by foresight, because it could be. I don't think EM ever had it in mind as a broadly useful function. I have heard him pooh pooh it before. The CA legislature forced the issue. If they had done right they would have simply made Tesla eligible since they were going to offer the credits anyway. OR maybe they were hoping no one would actually take them up on it except maybe the H2 folks? On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 12:38 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I always wondered why someone as smart as Tesla would stoop to the stupidest idea ever (battery swapping) for highway EV’s. Surely they understood EV’s enough to know that EV’s generally charge while parked, not while in use. But then Superchargers make it possible for distant convenient travel… So how could Tesla be so dumb to invest in “battery swap”… The answer, is smarter than we thought… http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097214_tesla-battery-swapping-useful-service-or-minimal-effort-for-extra-income It looks like all they had to do was demonstrate ONE working battery-swap station and then they got full extra credit for the California State requirement for full-range-replenishment in under 10 minutes. They met that goal (one station) and then collected $66,000,000 in EV credits! Not a bad return on investment in a side-show demo of stupid (but committee mandated) technology. Now if the public would just forget about “battery swap” as a crib for gas=pump dependency for anything more than Forkllifts and other unique 24/7 daily operations, we can get on with EVs and fast charging.We don’t need any more investor money spent down this rat hole.. Bob, WB4APR -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150312/3612f53c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150312
Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
That feature was designed in by foresight, because it could be. I don't think EM ever had it in mind as a broadly useful function. I have heard him pooh pooh it before. The CA legislature forced the issue. If they had done right they would have simply made Tesla eligible since they were going to offer the credits anyway. OR maybe they were hoping no one would actually take them up on it except maybe the H2 folks? On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 12:38 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I always wondered why someone as smart as Tesla would stoop to the stupidest idea ever (battery swapping) for highway EV’s. Surely they understood EV’s enough to know that EV’s generally charge while parked, not while in use. But then Superchargers make it possible for distant convenient travel… So how could Tesla be so dumb to invest in “battery swap”… The answer, is smarter than we thought… http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097214_tesla-battery-swapping-useful-service-or-minimal-effort-for-extra-income It looks like all they had to do was demonstrate ONE working battery-swap station and then they got full extra credit for the California State requirement for full-range-replenishment in under 10 minutes. They met that goal (one station) and then collected $66,000,000 in EV credits! Not a bad return on investment in a side-show demo of stupid (but committee mandated) technology. Now if the public would just forget about “battery swap” as a crib for gas=pump dependency for anything more than Forkllifts and other unique 24/7 daily operations, we can get on with EVs and fast charging.We don’t need any more investor money spent down this rat hole.. Bob, WB4APR -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150312/3612f53c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150312/2cf7e87b/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
Actually, I have thought that battery swapping might make sense if you simply lease the use of a battery, rather than own it. As long as the batteries owned by a company remain within spec, say 90%, then it does not matter what battery you have. You simply can forget about the battery, and on those occasions where you need 2 minute full recharge, you can have it. This would be particularity useful for long haul truck that can't afford 30 minute stops every 100 miles On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 12:42 PM, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: That feature was designed in by foresight, because it could be. I don't think EM ever had it in mind as a broadly useful function. I have heard him pooh pooh it before. The CA legislature forced the issue. If they had done right they would have simply made Tesla eligible since they were going to offer the credits anyway. OR maybe they were hoping no one would actually take them up on it except maybe the H2 folks? On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 12:38 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I always wondered why someone as smart as Tesla would stoop to the stupidest idea ever (battery swapping) for highway EV’s. Surely they understood EV’s enough to know that EV’s generally charge while parked, not while in use. But then Superchargers make it possible for distant convenient travel… So how could Tesla be so dumb to invest in “battery swap”… The answer, is smarter than we thought… http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097214_tesla-battery-swapping-useful-service-or-minimal-effort-for-extra-income It looks like all they had to do was demonstrate ONE working battery-swap station and then they got full extra credit for the California State requirement for full-range-replenishment in under 10 minutes. They met that goal (one station) and then collected $66,000,000 in EV credits! Not a bad return on investment in a side-show demo of stupid (but committee mandated) technology. Now if the public would just forget about “battery swap” as a crib for gas=pump dependency for anything more than Forkllifts and other unique 24/7 daily operations, we can get on with EVs and fast charging.We don’t need any more investor money spent down this rat hole.. Bob, WB4APR -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150312/3612f53c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150312/2cf7e87b/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Larry Gales -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150312/ff2fe420/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
I always wondered why someone as smart as Tesla would stoop to the stupidest idea ever (battery swapping) for highway EV’s. Surely they understood EV’s enough to know that EV’s generally charge while parked, not while in use. But then Superchargers make it possible for distant convenient travel… So how could Tesla be so dumb to invest in “battery swap”… The answer, is smarter than we thought… http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097214_tesla-battery-swapping-useful-service-or-minimal-effort-for-extra-income It looks like all they had to do was demonstrate ONE working battery-swap station and then they got full extra credit for the California State requirement for full-range-replenishment in under 10 minutes. They met that goal (one station) and then collected $66,000,000 in EV credits! Not a bad return on investment in a side-show demo of stupid (but committee mandated) technology. Now if the public would just forget about “battery swap” as a crib for gas=pump dependency for anything more than Forkllifts and other unique 24/7 daily operations, we can get on with EVs and fast charging.We don’t need any more investor money spent down this rat hole.. Bob, WB4APR -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150312/3612f53c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
As I see it, the model for successful battery exchange in EVs is the lowly flashlight (torch). The cells come in 4 basic sizes, with two of these most commonly used (AA and D). Effectively, you have 2 or maybe 4 tiers of energy content and power capacity; then, within each tier, you use more cells to get more of both. To make battery exchange work with EVs, you'd have to get all the EV manufacturers to agree on one or two standard module sizes. They'd need standardized connections that mate as the battery is installed, just as flashlight battery connections do. You'd have different capacities (through different chemistries) in a given module size, and also vary the capacity by the number of modules the EV used. For affordability and convenience, you'd have to fully automate the exchange process. The driver would pull into the exchange bay, pay the operator, wait a couple of minutes, and drive out with a freshly charged battery. Most likely the modules would have to attach from the bottom, with hydraulic lifts and conveyors doing the work. You could have one pit to remove the spent battery, and another to raise a fresh one into place. The EV would be moved from one pit to the next on tracks. You should be able to exchange an EV's battery even faster than a gas pump can fill an ICEV's tank. This model might have worked IF all the EV manufacturers could have agreed on it from the start. But making that happen would have been a huge challenge, and now it's just about impossible. Then, building all the exchange stations would require a stupendous investment. All this is pretty daunting. Just ask Shai Agassi. So, I wouldn't say that battery exchange is a stupid idea, but I'm afraid it's not a very practical one. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-S drivers crying foul, 'Grousing is ludicrous'
If Tesla really did assure these customers that the changes they wanted weren't imminent, then I have to agree that they're in the wrong. That said, IMO, this situation - buyers asking whether an upgrade is imminent - requires a very careful response from Tesla (or any tech oriented manufacturer or dealer, really). It's easy for a potential buyer to hear what he wants to hear at that moment, and re-interpret it later. At the very least, they should have been noncommittal when asked. Tesla says, in essence, that it's impractical to retrofit earlier cars for either upgrade. I suspect that many if not most of the complainers are angling for a free upgrade, which probably isn't going to happen. But maybe it would quiet some of the gripes if Tesla offered to do the job at actual cost. That cost would no doubt be substantial, but I'd guess that for at least some Tesla owners, the focus on having the latest and greatest transcends cost concerns. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-S drivers crying foul, 'Grousing is ludicrous'
Aside from the grousing problem any manufacturer has offering newer models... Part of the trouble for Tesla is their long backlog (a lot of development goes on while you wait). And the other is the high entry cost. Apple or another tech manufacturer can roll out upgrade after upgrade, but there is no wait (or nothing like a Tesla wait anyway), the customer goes in the store and walks out with what they want. They know, given the pace of consumer electronics, that the widget will soon enough be a lesser model. You can sell it off or trade it in on a new one for a few hundred bucks. None of that works with a $70K+ auto. You pay like that, you don't want someone else soon having a bigger one to swing. It is unreasonable to expect that your new thing stays new. Then there is the mine is better than your cache that has grown around Tesla vis a vis lesser autos. You think you are going to be a bad ass, but someone who simply waited longer has a better car. Waaah-waah. I think this is a minor detail for Tesla. You don't want unhappy customers who have the credit to buy, but I don't see a way around this problem. Can you really go back to an ICE after? On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 5:40 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: If Tesla really did assure these customers that the changes they wanted weren't imminent, then I have to agree that they're in the wrong. That said, IMO, this situation - buyers asking whether an upgrade is imminent - requires a very careful response from Tesla (or any tech oriented manufacturer or dealer, really). It's easy for a potential buyer to hear what he wants to hear at that moment, and re-interpret it later. At the very least, they should have been noncommittal when asked. Snip -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150312/59993162/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
