Re: [EVDL] Seattle EV Enthusiast HONORED by his High School Alumni Association

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

 Congratulations on your well-deserved honor.
- Mark Abramowitz 
President, Community Environmental Services

Senior Advisor and Immediate Past Chairman, California Hydrogen Business Council

Board Consultant to Dr. Joseph K. Lyou, Governor's Appointee to the South Coast 
Air Quality Management District Governing Board

Sent from AltaMail


 From: Steven Lough via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: [EVDL] Seattle EV Enthusiast HONORED by his 
High School Alumni Association Date: 5/29/16, 1:32 PM

 
For our 36 years of education, demonstration, and proliferation of  
electric transportation.  I was inducted into the Franklin High School  
Alumni HALL OF FAME.  The other folks inducted for 2016 included world  
renowned surgeon, a famous Chinese movie star, well known sound  
engineer,  and yes,  one used car salesman turned environmentalist and  
EV GuruME !   My acceptance speech can be seen by going to Youtube,  
and type in "Franklin Hall of Fame"  or visit my facebook page.  It was  
a great honor to be added to the Hall of Fame, and an honor to address  
the crowd on behalf of Electric Cars. 
 
 
--  
Steven S Lough 
PRESIDENT EMERITUS 
Seattle EV Association 
Web:  www.seattleeva.org 
206 524 1351 
 
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Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out the grid, +more

[Peri Hartman via EV]

 
With
incentives, the price offered for these used batteries would be 
higher,
helping to lift the value of used EVs and increasing the demand 
for new

EVs while at the same time helping to build our wind and solar
infrastructure.

In other words, right now, the need for utility level battery 
storage is

low. But, gradually, as we retire coal & other plants, we can be
building utility battery storage and boosting EV production and 
sales.


The sooner, the better, in my opinion.

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "David Nelson via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: "brucedp5" <bruce...@operamail.com>; "Electric Vehicle 
Discussion

List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: 29-May-16 12:43:01 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help
smooth out the grid, +more

>On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:46 AM, brucedp5 via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>

>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Why aren't they installing these power-walls at well used L3 
EVSE

>>stations?
>> Is there a major utility complaint that highly used L3 EVSE 
puts a

>>high
>> demand on the grid?
>> That the EV's power demand during peak HVAC power periods are 
counter

>> productive?
>>
>> I think that a prime candidate is this L3 station at Arlington 
City

>>Hall,
>OR (http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/47270). It is in a 
"desert"

>of
>charging stations along I-84 and looking at the comments it is 
the

>power
>company that is charging too much. Too bad the owner just doesn't 
put

>the
>cost to charge to what it would cost for the power, at least 
initially.

>
>Even a battery unit that didn't have enough to fully charge a car 
could

>be
>used in combination with the grid where the grid is used to just 
below

>the
>demand charge threshold and the battery supplying the rest. When 
the

>car
>stops charging the battery unit would charge back up in 
anticipation of

>the
>next vehicle.
>-- next part --
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>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

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Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out the grid, +more

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

 powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help 
smooth out the grid, +more
  The limited ability of batteries to store energy for long periods of time.
- Mark Abramowitz (speaking for myself)
President, Community Environmental Services

Senior Advisor and Immediate Past Chairman, California Hydrogen Business Council

Board Consultant to Dr. Joseph K. Lyou, Governor's Appointee to the South Coast 
Air Quality Management District Governing Board

Sent from AltaMail


 From: "Peri Hartman" <pe...@kotatko.com> To: ma...@enviropolicy.com, "Electric 
Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> CC: "David Nelson" 
<gizm...@gmail.com>, brucedp5 <bruce...@operamail.com>, "Electric Vehicle 
Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re[2]: [EVDL] Old packs as 
powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out the grid, +more Date: 5/29/16, 
2:10 PM


Why do you say "over long periods of time, not so much?"  I would agree it's 
hard to say whether we can attain enough used batteries for grid scale - 
depends on how many EVs are produced and how fast we ramp down mined-resource 
energy generation.

Peri
 
-- Original Message -- 
From: "Mark Abramowitz" <ma...@enviropolicy.com> 
To: "Peri Hartman" <pe...@kotatko.com>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
<ev@lists.evdl.org> 
Cc: "David Nelson" <gizm...@gmail.com>; "brucedp5" <bruce...@operamail.com>; 
"Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
Sent: 29-May-16 2:06:52 PM 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out 
the grid, +more
   I agree with you on this...to a point.
For small scale and short time periods, batteries are great. For grid scale 
over long periods of time... not so much.

- Mark Abramowitz (speaking for myself)
President, Community Environmental Services

Senior Advisor and Immediate Past Chairman, California Hydrogen Business Council

Board Consultant to Dr. Joseph K. Lyou, Governor's Appointee to the South Coast 
Air Quality Management District Governing Board

Sent from AltaMail


 From: Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "David Nelson" 
<gizm...@gmail.com>, brucedp5 <bruce...@operamail.com>,   "Electric Vehicle 
Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Old packs as 
powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out the grid, +more Date: 5/29/16, 
12:52 PM

 
I definitely would like to see incentives for installing "depleted" 
batteries as solar and wind backup. 
 
We're at a point in time where we can promote both wind and solar while 
winding down coal and gas power generation.  Clearly, before we can 
retire all mined-resource power generation (primarily coal, gas, 
nuclear), we need ways to store power for times when wind and solar 
don't generate enough. 
 
Soon, we will begin to see a flood of depleted batteries from EVs.  With 
incentives, the price offered for these used batteries would be higher, 
helping to lift the value of used EVs and increasing the demand for new 
EVs while at the same time helping to build our wind and solar 
infrastructure. 
 
In other words, right now, the need for utility level battery storage is 
low.  But, gradually, as we retire coal & other plants, we can be 
building utility battery storage and boosting EV production and sales. 
 
The sooner, the better, in my opinion. 
 
Peri 
 
-- Original Message -- 
From: "David Nelson via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
To: "brucedp5" <bruce...@operamail.com>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
Sent: 29-May-16 12:43:01 PM 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help 
smooth out the grid, +more 
 
>On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:46 AM, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
>wrote: 
> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Why aren't they installing these power-walls at well used L3 EVSE 
>>stations? 
>>  Is there a major utility complaint that highly used L3 EVSE puts a 
>>high 
>>  demand on the grid? 
>>  That the EV's power demand during peak HVAC power periods are counter 
>>  productive? 
>> 
>>  I think that a prime candidate is this L3 station at Arlington City 
>>Hall, 
>OR (http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/47270). It is in a "desert" 
>of 
>charging stations along I-84 and looking at the comments it is the 
>power 
>company that is charging too much. Too bad the owner just doesn't put 
>the 
>cost to charge to what it would cost for the power, at least initially. 
> 
>Even a battery unit that didn't have enough to fully charge a car could 
>be 
>used in combination with the grid where the grid is used to just below 
>the 
>demand charge threshold and the battery suppl

Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out the grid, +more

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

diate Past Chairman, California Hydrogen Business Council

Board Consultant to Dr. Joseph K. Lyou, Governor's Appointee to the South Coast 
Air Quality Management District Governing Board

Sent from AltaMail


 From: Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "David Nelson" 
<gizm...@gmail.com>, brucedp5 <bruce...@operamail.com>,   "Electric Vehicle 
Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Old packs as 
powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out the grid, +more Date: 5/29/16, 
12:52 PM

 
I definitely would like to see incentives for installing "depleted" 
batteries as solar and wind backup. 
 
We're at a point in time where we can promote both wind and solar while 
winding down coal and gas power generation.  Clearly, before we can 
retire all mined-resource power generation (primarily coal, gas, 
nuclear), we need ways to store power for times when wind and solar 
don't generate enough. 
 
Soon, we will begin to see a flood of depleted batteries from EVs.  With 
incentives, the price offered for these used batteries would be higher, 
helping to lift the value of used EVs and increasing the demand for new 
EVs while at the same time helping to build our wind and solar 
infrastructure. 
 
In other words, right now, the need for utility level battery storage is 
low.  But, gradually, as we retire coal & other plants, we can be 
building utility battery storage and boosting EV production and sales. 
 
The sooner, the better, in my opinion. 
 
Peri 
 
-- Original Message -- 
From: "David Nelson via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
To: "brucedp5" <bruce...@operamail.com>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
Sent: 29-May-16 12:43:01 PM 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help 
smooth out the grid, +more 
 
>On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:46 AM, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
>wrote: 
> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Why aren't they installing these power-walls at well used L3 EVSE 
>>stations? 
>>  Is there a major utility complaint that highly used L3 EVSE puts a 
>>high 
>>  demand on the grid? 
>>  That the EV's power demand during peak HVAC power periods are counter 
>>  productive? 
>> 
>>  I think that a prime candidate is this L3 station at Arlington City 
>>Hall, 
>OR (http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/47270). It is in a "desert" 
>of 
>charging stations along I-84 and looking at the comments it is the 
>power 
>company that is charging too much. Too bad the owner just doesn't put 
>the 
>cost to charge to what it would cost for the power, at least initially. 
> 
>Even a battery unit that didn't have enough to fully charge a car could 
>be 
>used in combination with the grid where the grid is used to just below 
>the 
>demand charge threshold and the battery supplying the rest. When the 
>car 
>stops charging the battery unit would charge back up in anticipation of 
>the 
>next vehicle. 
>-- next part -- 
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 
>URL: 
><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160529/fc767a42/attachment.htm>
> 
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>Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ 
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA 
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) 
> 
> 
 
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Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out the grid, +more

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

 I agree with you on this...to a point.
For small scale and short time periods, batteries are great. For grid scale 
over long periods of time... not so much.

- Mark Abramowitz (speaking for myself)
President, Community Environmental Services

Senior Advisor and Immediate Past Chairman, California Hydrogen Business Council

Board Consultant to Dr. Joseph K. Lyou, Governor's Appointee to the South Coast 
Air Quality Management District Governing Board

Sent from AltaMail


 From: Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "David Nelson" 
<gizm...@gmail.com>, brucedp5 <bruce...@operamail.com>,   "Electric Vehicle 
Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Old packs as 
powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out the grid, +more Date: 5/29/16, 
12:52 PM

 
I definitely would like to see incentives for installing "depleted"  
batteries as solar and wind backup. 
 
We're at a point in time where we can promote both wind and solar while  
winding down coal and gas power generation.  Clearly, before we can  
retire all mined-resource power generation (primarily coal, gas,  
nuclear), we need ways to store power for times when wind and solar  
don't generate enough. 
 
Soon, we will begin to see a flood of depleted batteries from EVs.  With  
incentives, the price offered for these used batteries would be higher,  
helping to lift the value of used EVs and increasing the demand for new  
EVs while at the same time helping to build our wind and solar  
infrastructure. 
 
In other words, right now, the need for utility level battery storage is  
low.  But, gradually, as we retire coal & other plants, we can be  
building utility battery storage and boosting EV production and sales. 
 
The sooner, the better, in my opinion. 
 
Peri 
 
-- Original Message -- 
From: "David Nelson via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
To: "brucedp5" <bruce...@operamail.com>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion  
List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
Sent: 29-May-16 12:43:01 PM 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help  
smooth out the grid, +more 
 
>On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:46 AM, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>  
>wrote: 
> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Why aren't they installing these power-walls at well used L3 EVSE  
>>stations? 
>>  Is there a major utility complaint that highly used L3 EVSE puts a  
>>high 
>>  demand on the grid? 
>>  That the EV's power demand during peak HVAC power periods are counter 
>>  productive? 
>> 
>>  I think that a prime candidate is this L3 station at Arlington City  
>>Hall, 
>OR (http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/47270). It is in a "desert"  
>of 
>charging stations along I-84 and looking at the comments it is the  
>power 
>company that is charging too much. Too bad the owner just doesn't put  
>the 
>cost to charge to what it would cost for the power, at least initially. 
> 
>Even a battery unit that didn't have enough to fully charge a car could  
>be 
>used in combination with the grid where the grid is used to just below  
>the 
>demand charge threshold and the battery supplying the rest. When the  
>car 
>stops charging the battery unit would charge back up in anticipation of  
>the 
>next vehicle. 
>-- next part -- 
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 
>URL:  
><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160529/fc767a42/attachment.htm>
> 
>___ 
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub 
>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org 
>Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ 
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA  
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) 
> 
> 
 
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Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out the grid, +more

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Why do you say "over long periods of time, not so much?"  I would agree 
it's hard to say whether we can attain enough used batteries for grid 
scale - depends on how many EVs are produced and how fast we ramp down 
mined-resource energy generation.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Abramowitz" <ma...@enviropolicy.com>
To: "Peri Hartman" <pe...@kotatko.com>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Cc: "David Nelson" <gizm...@gmail.com>; "brucedp5" 
<bruce...@operamail.com>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>

Sent: 29-May-16 2:06:52 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help 
smooth out the grid, +more



I agree with you on this...to a point.

For small scale and short time periods, batteries are great. For grid 
scale over long periods of time... not so much.



- Mark Abramowitz (speaking for myself)
President, Community Environmental Services

Senior Advisor and Immediate Past Chairman, California Hydrogen 
Business Council


Board Consultant to Dr. Joseph K. Lyou, Governor's Appointee to the 
South Coast Air Quality Management District Governing Board


Sent from AltaMail



From: Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>To: "David Nelson" 
<gizm...@gmail.com>, brucedp5 <bruce...@operamail.com>,	"Electric 
Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Old 
packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out the grid, 
+moreDate: 5/29/16, 12:52 PM


I definitely would like to see incentives for installing "depleted"
batteries as solar and wind backup.

We're at a point in time where we can promote both wind and solar 
while

winding down coal and gas power generation. Clearly, before we can
retire all mined-resource power generation (primarily coal, gas,
nuclear), we need ways to store power for times when wind and solar
don't generate enough.

Soon, we will begin to see a flood of depleted batteries from EVs. 
With
incentives, the price offered for these used batteries would be 
higher,
helping to lift the value of used EVs and increasing the demand for 
new

EVs while at the same time helping to build our wind and solar
infrastructure.

In other words, right now, the need for utility level battery storage 
is

low. But, gradually, as we retire coal & other plants, we can be
building utility battery storage and boosting EV production and sales.

The sooner, the better, in my opinion.

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "David Nelson via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: "brucedp5" <bruce...@operamail.com>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: 29-May-16 12:43:01 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help
smooth out the grid, +more

>On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:46 AM, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Why aren't they installing these power-walls at well used L3 EVSE
>>stations?
>> Is there a major utility complaint that highly used L3 EVSE puts a
>>high
>> demand on the grid?
>> That the EV's power demand during peak HVAC power periods are 
counter

>> productive?
>>
>> I think that a prime candidate is this L3 station at Arlington City
>>Hall,
>OR (http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/47270). It is in a 
"desert"

>of
>charging stations along I-84 and looking at the comments it is the
>power
>company that is charging too much. Too bad the owner just doesn't put
>the
>cost to charge to what it would cost for the power, at least 
initially.

>
>Even a battery unit that didn't have enough to fully charge a car 
could

>be
>used in combination with the grid where the grid is used to just 
below

>the
>demand charge threshold and the battery supplying the rest. When the
>car
>stops charging the battery unit would charge back up in anticipation 
of

>the
>next vehicle.
>-- next part --
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>URL:
><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160529/fc767a42/attachment.htm>
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>Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

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Re: [EVDL] 2011 Leaf pack disassembly

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Seth,
The pack was carted out to me just before 11 AM and I took off at 3 PM
with the cells in the back of the Prius (again bolted together in the
original end plates to avoid having cells shift around in my car and
short-circus as Bob Rice would say)
I was prepared with a lot of tools, so I did not have to search or buy
things like the security Torx, I had it ready to use in my car next to
the pack. Mostly I used the 10mm and 1/2" socket with a short extension
and my small ratchet. I had brought my 3/8" drive ratchet and 3 ft
handle extension (steel pipe) which I did not need, but I used the large
ratchet and a 16mm socket for undoing a reinforcement bar that goes
across the pack between the front 4 stacks of 4 cells and the middle
stacks of 2 cells.
I needed the 2 crow bars that I also brought to lift the rear single
stack of 24 cells to undo the bolts that were slightly hidden inside the
bottom shell as I forgot to bring an open ended 10mm wrench, so I only
had the socket which needs to have clear space in front in order to
work.

I will soon know the difference as I am also planning to buy a 2015 Leaf
for the pack and part out the rest of the car, since I want tocombine 2
Leaf packs in my S10.

Thermal management: there is nothing to regulate the temp in a 2011
pack, it simply has a high voltage connector and a control connector,
the pack is sealed beyond that. I have heard that later packs have a
battery heater so I presume that the pack is still sealed but the
control interface can enable a heater that is attached to the internal
DC bus. The BMS does measure the temp of several spread-out cells, I
believe I removed 4 temp sensors (and retained them to be used on my S10
when I re-install this pack and BMS) which looked like simple pt1000
metal tubes held in place with a plastic clip.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Seth Rothenberg
via EV
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 11:52 AM
To: Jay Summet; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2011 Leaf pack disassembly

Cor,
Thank you for the pics!   How long did that take you?

Do you know what the difference is between the 2011/12
vs 2013-2015 packs?

Also, is there some kind of thermal management?

Thanks
Seth
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Re: [EVDL] 2011 Leaf pack disassembly

[Haudy Kazemi via EV]

ibited.
>>
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Jay Summet
>via
>>EV
>>Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 1:45 AM
>>To: ev@lists.evdl.org
>>Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2011 Leaf pack disassembly
>>
>>Phew! That's a full days work! At least that cart put it up at a nice
>>working height so you didn't have to stoop over all day
>>
>>Jay
>>
>>On 05/29/2016 03:18 AM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
>>>  Today I bought a 2011 Leaf battery pack and completely
>dis-assembled
>>it,
>>>  to take it home in my Prius,
>>>  the shell was too wide to fit in the car.
>>>  Also I was by myself and had no help lifting, each module is over 8
>>lbs
>>>  and there are 48 in a pack
>>>  so about 400 lbs in cells alone, besides the compression plates,
>>>  contactors, service disconnect,
>>>  bus bars and hundreds of bolts. And of course the steel shell
>halves.
>>>  So, I disassembled the pack in the parking lot of the recycler and
>>took
>>>  several pics of the process.
>>>  You can enjoy them here:
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/33178064@N05/
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>>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [EVDL] 2011 Leaf pack disassembly

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Fascinating, Cor.

I wonder if Nissan designed the car to take advantage of the structural 
properties of the battery case.  It seems that one could design a 
chassis that *is* the battery case and put a body on top of it.  Let 
your imagination run, here.  I assume they did that to some extent but I 
bet there's room for quite a bit of weight optimization.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Cor van de Water via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: 29-May-16 4:32:42 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2011 Leaf pack disassembly


Jay,
You hit it on the head, I was afraid that the wrecker guys would just
drop the pack on the ground in the parking lot or even chase me off
their property and dump it in the street on the hot asphalt, but they
were really cool with it, parking this cart in a corner of their lot
under a tree so I did not get the full brunt of the 93 deg weather 
while

slaving through the hot hours of the day, it was almost 3 hours drive
away (near Sacramento) so even though I left early in the morning, the
holiday weekend traffic caused me to arrive around 10:30 and they 
needed

some time to pull the Leaf from storage and find the pack.
Funny story: I had paid for and was waiting for them to bring the pack
out, then the workshop guy comes to the front desk: Where *is* the
battery on the Leaf? So I explained: under the car. I actually walked
back with him, he raised the forklift tines enough that we could peek
under the car and I pointed to the area between the 4 wheels and said:
there it is.
He also was a little hesitant for dealing with the high voltage, so I
asked him: did you pull the 12V battery out (I could see that it was
gone from under the also missing hood) and explained that the high
voltage can only come out when 12V power is applied to the relays that
disconnect when the car is not in use.
After that he was happy to unbolt the pack, disconnect the plugs and
cart it out for me to work on.
At the end of the lunchtime he dropped by again to look at the contents
of the pack with the words "you learn something every day" and I like
that attitude.

Bruce,
Indeed the shell is quite heavy. The top is single layer of sheet steel
and probably around 40 lbs because I could carry it with some effort,
the bottom I did not handle more than shifting it a bit on the cart, 
but

seeing that it is double walled with some reinforcements, it must be at
least double the top shell so likely around 80-100 lbs.
This means that the entire battery pack in its enclosure is likely
40-50%
heavier than the weight of the modules, which in itself are 4 cells in 
a

metal jacket.

BTW, I did put a short description with every pic so you have an idea
what they are about, unfortunately the upload feature of Flickr put 
them

in the wrong order, you see them from end to start.
I don't have a blog to give the story with the pics but I did post them
as public to be able to share the innards of a Leaf pack. Looks very
well done.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential 
and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you 
received

this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Jay Summet via
EV
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 1:45 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2011 Leaf pack disassembly

Phew! That's a full days work! At least that cart put it up at a nice
working height so you didn't have to stoop over all day

Jay

On 05/29/2016 03:18 AM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

 Today I bought a 2011 Leaf battery pack and completely dis-assembled

it,

 to take it home in my Prius,
 the shell was too wide to fit in the car.
 Also I was by myself and had no help lifting, each module is over 8

lbs

 and there are 48 in a pack
 so about 400 lbs in cells alone, besides the compression plates,
 contactors, service disconnect,
 bus bars and hundreds of bolts. And of course the steel shell halves.
 So, I disassembled the pack in the parking lot of the recycler and

took

 several pics of the process.
 You can enjoy them here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/33178064@N05/

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Re: [EVDL] 2011 Leaf pack disassembly

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Jay,
You hit it on the head, I was afraid that the wrecker guys would just
drop the pack on the ground in the parking lot or even chase me off
their property and dump it in the street on the hot asphalt, but they
were really cool with it, parking this cart in a corner of their lot
under a tree so I did not get the full brunt of the 93 deg weather while
slaving through the hot hours of the day, it was almost 3 hours drive
away (near Sacramento) so even though I left early in the morning, the
holiday weekend traffic caused me to arrive around 10:30 and they needed
some time to pull the Leaf from storage and find the pack.
Funny story: I had paid for and was waiting for them to bring the pack
out, then the workshop guy comes to the front desk: Where *is* the
battery on the Leaf? So I explained: under the car. I actually walked
back with him, he raised the forklift tines enough that we could peek
under the car and I pointed to the area between the 4 wheels and said:
there it is.
He also was a little hesitant for dealing with the high voltage, so I
asked him: did you pull the 12V battery out (I could see that it was
gone from under the also missing hood) and explained that the high
voltage can only come out when 12V power is applied to the relays that
disconnect when the car is not in use.
After that he was happy to unbolt the pack, disconnect the plugs and
cart it out for me to work on.
At the end of the lunchtime he dropped by again to look at the contents
of the pack with the words "you learn something every day" and I like
that attitude.

Bruce,
Indeed the shell is quite heavy. The top is single layer of sheet steel
and probably around 40 lbs because I could carry it with some effort,
the bottom I did not handle more than shifting it a bit on the cart, but
seeing that it is double walled with some reinforcements, it must be at
least double the top shell so likely around 80-100 lbs.
This means that the entire battery pack in its enclosure is likely
40-50%
heavier than the weight of the modules, which in itself are 4 cells in a
metal jacket.

BTW, I did put a short description with every pic so you have an idea
what they are about, unfortunately the upload feature of Flickr put them
in the wrong order, you see them from end to start.
I don't have a blog to give the story with the pics but I did post them
as public to be able to share the innards of a Leaf pack. Looks very
well done.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Jay Summet via
EV
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 1:45 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2011 Leaf pack disassembly

Phew! That's a full days work! At least that cart put it up at a nice 
working height so you didn't have to stoop over all day

Jay

On 05/29/2016 03:18 AM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
> Today I bought a 2011 Leaf battery pack and completely dis-assembled
it,
> to take it home in my Prius,
> the shell was too wide to fit in the car.
> Also I was by myself and had no help lifting, each module is over 8
lbs
> and there are 48 in a pack
> so about 400 lbs in cells alone, besides the compression plates,
> contactors, service disconnect,
> bus bars and hundreds of bolts. And of course the steel shell halves.
> So, I disassembled the pack in the parking lot of the recycler and
took
> several pics of the process.
> You can enjoy them here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/33178064@N05/
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Re: [EVDL] Faraday Future: a Billionare.cn funded .com trolling for Tesla-wannabe investment$

[Jorg Brown via EV]

On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 4:46 PM, Gail Lucas via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:

> As many on this list are all over the world or know what is happening
> everywhere I thought someone might have actually touched a prototype, maybe
> seen one move or done a test drive. I would like to not have NV residents
> pay for a company that is not going to materialize. When Tesla arrived they
> were quite well established, had many vehicles for show and tell. So far,
> no one that I know of has seen anything built by Faraday, except a lot of
> PR releases.
>
> Still anxious for any reports to the contrary.
>

Yours was the first story I've seen that mentioned LeEco, the Chinese
company behind Faraday Future.  I see that they're also marketing a
self-driving sedan.

Are they selling cars into the Chinese market yet?
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[EVDL] Seattle EV Enthusiast HONORED by his High School Alumni Association

[Steven Lough via EV]

For our 36 years of education, demonstration, and proliferation of 
electric transportation.  I was inducted into the Franklin High School 
Alumni HALL OF FAME.  The other folks inducted for 2016 included world 
renowned surgeon, a famous Chinese movie star, well known sound 
engineer,  and yes,  one used car salesman turned environmentalist and 
EV GuruME !   My acceptance speech can be seen by going to Youtube, 
and type in "Franklin Hall of Fame"  or visit my facebook page.  It was 
a great honor to be added to the Hall of Fame, and an honor to address 
the crowd on behalf of Electric Cars.



--
Steven S Lough
PRESIDENT EMERITUS
Seattle EV Association
Web:  www.seattleeva.org
206 524 1351

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Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out the grid, +more

[Peri Hartman via EV]

I definitely would like to see incentives for installing "depleted" 
batteries as solar and wind backup.


We're at a point in time where we can promote both wind and solar while 
winding down coal and gas power generation.  Clearly, before we can 
retire all mined-resource power generation (primarily coal, gas, 
nuclear), we need ways to store power for times when wind and solar 
don't generate enough.


Soon, we will begin to see a flood of depleted batteries from EVs.  With 
incentives, the price offered for these used batteries would be higher, 
helping to lift the value of used EVs and increasing the demand for new 
EVs while at the same time helping to build our wind and solar 
infrastructure.


In other words, right now, the need for utility level battery storage is 
low.  But, gradually, as we retire coal & other plants, we can be 
building utility battery storage and boosting EV production and sales.


The sooner, the better, in my opinion.

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "David Nelson via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: "brucedp5" <bruce...@operamail.com>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>

Sent: 29-May-16 12:43:01 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help 
smooth out the grid, +more


On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:46 AM, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
wrote:





 Why aren't they installing these power-walls at well used L3 EVSE 
stations?
 Is there a major utility complaint that highly used L3 EVSE puts a 
high

 demand on the grid?
 That the EV's power demand during peak HVAC power periods are counter
 productive?

 I think that a prime candidate is this L3 station at Arlington City 
Hall,
OR (http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/47270). It is in a "desert" 
of
charging stations along I-84 and looking at the comments it is the 
power
company that is charging too much. Too bad the owner just doesn't put 
the

cost to charge to what it would cost for the power, at least initially.

Even a battery unit that didn't have enough to fully charge a car could 
be
used in combination with the grid where the grid is used to just below 
the
demand charge threshold and the battery supplying the rest. When the 
car
stops charging the battery unit would charge back up in anticipation of 
the

next vehicle.
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Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out the grid, +more

[David Nelson via EV]

On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:46 AM, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

>
>
> Why aren't they installing these power-walls at well used L3 EVSE stations?
> Is there a major utility complaint that highly used L3 EVSE puts a high
> demand on the grid?
> That the EV's power demand during peak HVAC power periods are counter
> productive?
>
> I think that a prime candidate is this L3 station at Arlington City Hall,
OR (http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/47270). It is in a "desert" of
charging stations along I-84 and looking at the comments it is the power
company that is charging too much. Too bad the owner just doesn't put the
cost to charge to what it would cost for the power, at least initially.

Even a battery unit that didn't have enough to fully charge a car could be
used in combination with the grid where the grid is used to just below the
demand charge threshold and the battery supplying the rest. When the car
stops charging the battery unit would charge back up in anticipation of the
next vehicle.
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Re: [EVDL] 2011 Leaf pack disassembly

[Jay Summet via EV]

Phew! That's a full days work! At least that cart put it up at a nice 
working height so you didn't have to stoop over all day


Jay

On 05/29/2016 03:18 AM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

Today I bought a 2011 Leaf battery pack and completely dis-assembled it,
to take it home in my Prius,
the shell was too wide to fit in the car.
Also I was by myself and had no help lifting, each module is over 8 lbs
and there are 48 in a pack
so about 400 lbs in cells alone, besides the compression plates,
contactors, service disconnect,
bus bars and hundreds of bolts. And of course the steel shell halves.
So, I disassembled the pack in the parking lot of the recycler and took
several pics of the process.
You can enjoy them here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/33178064@N05/

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[EVDL] EVent: roborace.com> Everyman’s autonomous Electric racing series

[brucedp5 via EV]

'Track days are focused on engineering and data gathering rather than speed'

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lianeyvkoff/2016/05/28/an-autonomous-racing-series-kicks-off-in-california/#4aaf4b32537f
An Autonomous Racing Series Kicks Off In California
May 28, 2016  Liane Yvkoff

[images  
http://blogs-images.forbes.com/lianeyvkoff/files/2016/05/IMG_8394-1200x900.jpg
An engineer calibrating the sensors of PolySync's autonomous vehicle.
(credit: PolySync with permission to Forbes.com)

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/lianeyvkoff/files/2016/05/Screen-Shot-2016-05-28-at-11.58.15-AM.png
Screen Shot 2016-05-28 at 11.58.15 AM
(e-Go-Kart)
]

If Roborace will be the Formula 1 of autonomous electric car racing, then
“Self Racing Cars” is the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA). At least,
that’s the plan for the new driverless car series holding its first “ track
days” this weekend.

Self Racing Cars is a new race series started by technology entrepreneur
Joshua Schachter as a way for companies and hobbyists to test their
autonomous vehicles and learn from each other. There are no rules, and there
is no qualifying–anyone with a autonomous car or autonomous vehicle
technology can apply to participate at the events currently being held at
Thunderhill Raceway in Willows, Calif. That means that even if it’s just a
Go-Kart, as long as it doesn’t have a driver you can race it on the track.

In other words, it’s the everyman’s autonomous racing series.

However, more than entertainment or bragging rights, this series is a way
for companies and people to learn from each other and further the field of
autonomous vehicle technology. The barrier to obtain a permit to test
autonomous vehicles on public roads in California is high, requiring among
other things a $5 million insurance policy. To date there are only a 13
companies–all with valuations in the millions or billions–holding one. But
Self Racing Cars gives smaller companies and inventors a legal, safe, and
controlled environment to test and refine their technology while learning
from the data that others gather and share.

In addition to some of the bigger names in advanced driver assisted safety
and technology, such as Denso , Velodyne and Nvidia, are lesser known
players, such as PolySync, an autonomous vehicle software platform.

For now, the track days are focused on engineering and data gathering rather
than speed, but eventually Schachter wants to expand the series to include
time trials and vehicle classes.
[© forbes.com]




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
http://evdl.org/evln/


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Re: [EVDL] 2011 Leaf pack disassembly

[brucedp5 via EV]

Thank you for sharing. I found it interesting to see the inside cells of he
pack, and the empty shell case.

How much do you think the empty case weighs, and what percentage of the
total pack weight would that be?

It looks like the case is heavy, and converters have an advantage over the
automakers in that converters can save on that case weight, and install the
li-ion cells without it.

If possible please consider grouping those images, and titling them. I am
thinking that effort will be found by the search engines and potential
converters around the world can see, learn, and improve on what you have
done.




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.150m.com}

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[EVDL] EVLN: ZOE Electric vehicle with a low supermini price tag

[brucedp5 via EV]

'What it's like to drive Renault's Electric Zoe'

http://www.theguardian.com/renault-on-road-revolution/2016/may/19/renault-zoe-the-all-electric-vehicle-at-a-supermini-price-tag
Renault ZOE: the all-electric vehicle at a supermini price tag
19 May 2016  

[image  
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/dc674633961ecc58e996013a93b15bd90369e219/0_333_4500_2699/master/4500.jpg?w=700=55=format=12=max=581290900e6261b738559fa8104e3ae4
RENAULT ZOE (B10) - PHASE 1ON LOCATION  ZOE brings the electric dream to the
mass market. Photograph: CG Eyedream
]

Sales of electric cars continue to rise apace, and it’s the everyday
electrics such as the Renault ZOE that are driving this booming market

Within every class of vehicle the sales battle is fought under a distinctive
set of rules. Some fight purely on price, others over fuel efficiency. It
might be spaciousness, or luxury, or power for others – frequently it’s a
combination of the above and more. Electric cars must compete on all of the
same points, while offering zero emissions at the exhaust pipe and lower
running costs – offering customers everything they enjoy about their car
now, and more.

Renault’s contender, the ZOE, offers safety, space, and everyday usability,
as well as a driving experience matching or exceeding that of vehicles in
the conventional supermini class, along with super-low running and
maintenance costs.

That electric cars are more expensive than internal combustion is a matter
of industrial history: carmakers have spent a century cost-cutting
conventional car parts. Electric cars, conversely, are built from a range of
new technologies: from battery packs to power electronics, everything is
still in its infancy, and performance, rather than price, drives design. 

For Renault, offering the ZOE with a four-year warranty and at a price-point
equivalent to a diesel competitor is impressive. More impressive still is
the offering of a truly impressive range and several world-first
technologies.

About that range. Ignore it. The New European Driving Cycle is a good tool
for comparison tests, but the standardised simulation carried out under lab
conditions is frequently criticised for bearing little similarity to
real-world driving. Renault suggests a rather more realistic estimated
range* of 106-miles in summer, dropping to 71 miles in deep winter, although
there’s also an “eco” button that allows the ZOE to eke-out a little more
range by limiting acceleration, decreasing top speed and turning down the
air-con. 

For most motorists, however, vehicle range shouldn’t be a major issue. The
most recent census by the Office of National Statistics informs us most
regular trips fall well within ZOE’s range: the daily repeat business of the
commute to work (averaging nine miles in 2011); the school run; and shopping
trips are where electric cars excel. It makes sense to carry 45kg of
sloshing petrol because a daily trip to the filling station would be
annoying; it doesn’t make sense to add on another slab of batteries when
recharging is a simple matter of remembering to plug in when you get home.

ZOE can be charged directly from a standard three-pin socket – but that can
take quite a while. The preferred option is the home wall box, supplied and
fitted by Chargemaster for Renault’s retail customers, which brings the full
charge time down to three-to-four hours. Out on the road, you could opt for
one of Britain’s 9,000 charging points suitable for the ZOE, more than 200
of which are higher-powered chargers that drop charge times further, with an
80% charge completed in 30-60 minutes.

Inside the ZOE, an embedded built-in R-Link tablet offers a TomTom satnav,
which allows drivers to plot the most energy-efficient routes and locates
nearby charging points. It’s also capable of carrying out a range of tablet
functions including access to email and Twitter. It can even give you
feedback on your driving style after each journey, if you’re the sort of
person who appreciates that kind of thing.

There are now more than 4,200 ZOEs registered in the UK. The ZOE and cars
like it are gaining in popularity. Data from the Society of Motor
Manufacturers and Traders show sales of pure electric cars rose by 40% in
2015, as the market for new cars grew by 6% in the same year. The remaining
question for an electric future is the issue of longevity. Conventional cars
target lifecycles of 15 years or 150,000 miles but, as everyone with a phone
or a laptop knows, lithium-ion batteries have a tendency to degrade. This is
where Renault changed the conventional car offering. Anyone worried about
being stuck with an electric vehicle 100,000 miles hence can take the option
of buying the car but hiring the battery pack. For a monthly fee, based on
expected mileage, Renault will simply rent you the battery pack and replace
it should its capacity fall below 75% of the original figure.

For all the undoubted innovation, perhaps Renault’s real technological
achievement is this: managing to 

[EVDL] 2011 Leaf pack disassembly

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Today I bought a 2011 Leaf battery pack and completely dis-assembled it,
to take it home in my Prius,
the shell was too wide to fit in the car.
Also I was by myself and had no help lifting, each module is over 8 lbs
and there are 48 in a pack
so about 400 lbs in cells alone, besides the compression plates,
contactors, service disconnect,
bus bars and hundreds of bolts. And of course the steel shell halves.
So, I disassembled the pack in the parking lot of the recycler and took
several pics of the process.
You can enjoy them here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/33178064@N05/

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

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