Re: [EVDL] Blew my Curtis 1231C Controller - repair procedures?

[brucedp5 via EV]

On the topic of repairing a Curtis 1221x controller ...

When I received my S-10 Blazer conversion EV from the converter (no, I did
not make my own. I had no garage, she got the house. But I did have an
income, but no time, I was always working), it arrived as a 120VDC T125
system using a Curtis 1221x controller to power the 9" ADC dual-shaft
e-motor.

After the first curtis had died, I paid to have that converter replace it.
Later, (way back when Otmar resided in Palo Alto, CA), Otmar gave some
pointers when we looked under my hood. He noticed the way the converter had
secured the power cabled to and from the controller needed more support.

The reason was the cheap potting material the curtis controller used. Any
vibrations of those cables would eventually cause openings to occur in that
potting material. Otmar explained, that it was when outside air could breath
through the controller (instead of it being sealed, air tight) that was one
of the major causes of premature failure. As the controller would heat up
with use, and then cool when not in use, outside air would breath in
moisture. That moisture with the heating cooling of the components would
cause corrosion, which would lead to eventual internal component failure.

*So, anyone doing a curtis repair, ensure the controller is back in a
sealed, air tight environment again (make sure the unit has no way for
moisture to get in). 

Also, another item causing failures was having proper cooling. Typically,
the controller was mounted on a heat sink for low power use. But in the
higher (144V) use, the best cooling even on hot days, was to have the
controller mounted on a large heat sink, with 12V fans mounted on the top
and bottom (like a sandwich) to ensure the controller had enough cooling.




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Blew-my-Curtis-1231C-Controller-repair-procedures-tp4685180p4685205.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Blew my Curtis 1231C Controller - repair procedures?

[Lee Hart via EV]

Hoegberg via EV wrote:

I have an 1221 that I want to use for a new car, but this one has not been
used and have been outdoors for 20 years.. in bad climate, so it probably need 
some internal drying..


After that length of time, I would assume the electrolytic capacitors 
are bad. I'd replace them.


Once you're inside the case, check the screw heads for rust. If they're 
rusty, then for sure water has been inside the case as well. That can be 
very bad; corrosion can open traces, and cause shorts between pads.



if I remember correct it is 72-120V 400 Motoramps. (dont have the 1khz at low 
pwm/speeds)
Anyone on this list that have a service manual?
or just the circuit schematics with component values and so for me?


That sounds right. I have manuals and schematics. The final 4 digits 
after the model number identify the voltage, current, and other options.


1221B-48xx  24-36v, 600a
1221B-57xx  36-48v, 550a
1221B-66xx  48-72v, 500a
1221B-74xx  72-120v, 400a

The model 1221B does not have the fix to lower the switching frequency 
when starting a big low-resistance motor (like the ADC 9"). The 1221C 
*does* have this fix.


Without this fix, the current limit does not work for a low-resistance 
motor from a dead stop. You get a strong starting "jerk", and the high 
current can damage and eventually break the controller. But if you're 
using a smaller, higher-resistance motor and starting it is smooth and 
jerk-free, the B model is fine.


I'll email you a schematic directly. I don't have an electronic copy of 
the manual; just the printed version.


--
Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
implement, test, and execute!
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Blew my Curtis 1231C Controller - repair procedures?

[Hoegberg via EV]

> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2017 13:56:04 -0500
> Subject: [EVDL] Blew my Curtis 1231C Controller - repair procedures?
> From: ev@lists.evdl.org
>
> For those of you following the drama:
>
> A few days ago my main HV fuse blew.
>
> I used a lightbulb to test the Curtis 1231C controller and it was able


I have an 1221 that I want to use for a new car, but this one has not been 
used and have been outdoors for 20 years.. in bad climate, so it probably need 
some internal drying..
 
It might still work, but capacitors and stuff might gone bad over time (?)
, I assume it is the model before 1231c ,

if I remember correct it is 72-120V 400 Motoramps. (dont have the 1khz at low 
pwm/speeds)
Anyone on this list that have a service manual?
 or just the circuit schematics with component values and so for me?

I would be very happy to be able to repair it, IF it blows up..   

If you have, please send me "off list", ..or link, if it is not already in the 
public domain

// John
  
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Blew my Curtis 1231C Controller - repair procedures?

[Thos True via EV]

Jay,

I too would steer clear from the Kelly controller. We tested a couple of
these when they first started selling in the states (they were looking for
distributors). We found that the specs were overstated (possibly peak level
at best). Smoked both units well before expectations.
I would go with either a Zilla or the Cafe unit that Roland cited.
(My 2 watts worth)

-Tom

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 6:29 PM, Lee Hart via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> Jay Summet via EV wrote:
>
>> I have sent a message to the seller of the used Kelly controller on
>> EVTrading post as that appears to be the best option available right
>> now...
>>
>> The Zilla 1K would be my choice for a new build, as I've heard nothing
>> but good things about the Zillas...
>>
>> A drop in replacement 1231C would be ideal for getting back on the road
>> quickly, but if I'm paying new prices I may decide to go with something
>> else (as the 1232C blew up ;>)
>>
>> I'd seen the ZEVA controller listed online, and the 600 A one is nicely
>> priced, so it's good to hear from Matt that it works well for him.
>>
>
> Random comments:
>
> Kelly controllers seem to be of lower quality than the others.
>
> Don't try to use regen on the ADC FB4001 motor. Arc! Zap! Bang!
>
> The Zilla controllers are great. I've had two.
>
> It ain't easy to fix the Curtis 1231C, but it is possible (I've done it).
> A lot depends on just how much damage was done when it failed. It might be
> worse opening it up to take a look. If not too badly damaged, get it fixed.
>
> I don't have any experience with the ZEVA controllers, good or bad.
>
> --
> Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
> Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
> implement, test, and execute!
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> /NEDRA)
>
>


-- 
Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20170101/39741006/attachment.htm>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Blew my Curtis 1231C Controller - repair procedures?

[Lee Hart via EV]

Jay Summet via EV wrote:

I have sent a message to the seller of the used Kelly controller on
EVTrading post as that appears to be the best option available right
now...

The Zilla 1K would be my choice for a new build, as I've heard nothing
but good things about the Zillas...

A drop in replacement 1231C would be ideal for getting back on the road
quickly, but if I'm paying new prices I may decide to go with something
else (as the 1232C blew up ;>)

I'd seen the ZEVA controller listed online, and the 600 A one is nicely
priced, so it's good to hear from Matt that it works well for him.


Random comments:

Kelly controllers seem to be of lower quality than the others.

Don't try to use regen on the ADC FB4001 motor. Arc! Zap! Bang!

The Zilla controllers are great. I've had two.

It ain't easy to fix the Curtis 1231C, but it is possible (I've done 
it). A lot depends on just how much damage was done when it failed. It 
might be worse opening it up to take a look. If not too badly damaged, 
get it fixed.


I don't have any experience with the ZEVA controllers, good or bad.

--
Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
implement, test, and execute!
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Blew my Curtis 1231C Controller - repair procedures?

[via EV]

They use MOSFET's in the 1231, if you want to experitment I can give you some 
free of charge, I get lot's of samples for free and would like to see them used 
for an EV project. 

On Sunday, January 1, 2017 8:56 PM, paul dove via EV  
wrote:
 

 It's called an IGBT 
Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor 

However a Curtis 1231C has MOSFETS bony IGBTs as far as I know. 

Repairing them is not for the novice. They are packed in there tight.

I have one I'm not using I would sell.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 1, 2017, at 12:56 PM, Jay Summet via EV  wrote:
> 
> For those of you following the drama:
> 
> A few days ago my main HV fuse blew.
> 
> I used a lightbulb to test the Curtis 1231C controller and it was able to 
> control the bulb when I pressed on the throttle, so I thought it might be a 
> problem with my motor or wires. After I checked out the motor and wires and 
> everything appeared OK, I put a new fuse in and gave the truck a test drive 
> after I was able to spin the motor in neutral just fine.
> 
> Everything was fine at low speeds and current (100A or less) but as soon as I 
> tried to accelerate to 25-35 mph speeds I noticed that my motor was only 
> getting 300 amps max. In the past I've had it peg my 500 amp meter under 
> heavy acceleration.
> 
> (This is the point I probably should have let up on the throttle ;>)
> 
> After holding the throttle down for about 5 seconds longer than I should 
> have, the controller failed completely and I was no longer able to get any 
> current to the motor. (But I had built up enough speed to coast back home)
> 
> My guess:
> When my HV fuse blew the first time, it was because one or more of the IBGT's 
> in the controller had fried (shorted I assume, blowing the fuse).
> 
> At some point later, they became "un-shorted" and the remaining controllers 
> were able to drive the lightbulb and even my motor at low current draws, but 
> when I tried to use the vehicle at street speeds they became overwhelmed and 
> then also blew. (At least they did not take out my replacement fuse this 
> time)
> 
> I assume it may be possible to repair the controller by replacing just the 
> IGBT's if nothing else was fried?
> 
> Any pointers on repair procedures?
> 
> (I'm also in the market for a replacement controller, see my other 
> email...I'm thinking of attempting the repair mostly to have a spare and for 
> the experience...)
> 
> Thanks,
> Jay
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



   
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Blew my Curtis 1231C Controller - repair procedures?

[Jay Summet via EV]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I have sent a message to the seller of the used Kelly controller on 
EVTrading post as that appears to be the best option available right 
now. I like the fact that it is smaller than the current controller 
(will fit in the same place) and also offers regen as an option. And 
aside from changing the precharge/contractor setup the wiring is almost 
the same.



The Zilla 1K would be my choice for a new build, as I've heard nothing 
but good things about the Zillasbut, I don't want to have to rig up 
a water cooling solution, and the hairball would add a bit of wiring to 
my current system.



A drop in replacement 1231C would be ideal for getting back on the road 
quickly, but if I'm paying new prices I may decide to go with something 
else (as the 1232C blew up ;>)


I'd seen the ZEVA controller listed online, and the 600 A one is nicely 
priced, so it's good to hear from Matt that it works well for him.


Jay

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] Update: Singer-actor.kr Son sues Tesla after X crashes @full power on its own into his living room

[brucedp5 via EV]

[This update will be added to the original post
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Son-sues-Tesla-after-X-crashes-full-power-on-its-own-into-his-living-room-tp4685157.html
]
South Korean singer sues Tesla after he says Model X SUV sped up ...
Dec 31, 2016  Ji Chang Son, 46, a well-known singer and actor in South
Korea, said he was ... when the white electric SUV Model X he was driving
suddenly sped up and ... make a financial payment and acknowledge that the
vehicle accelerated on its own ...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4079060/South-Korean-singer-sues-Tesla-says-Model-X-SUV-sped-crashed-garage.html
South Korean singer sues Tesla after he says Model X SUV sped up on its own
and crashed through his garage 
31 December 2016  Kiri Blakeley

[images  / Facebook
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/12/31/22/3BBEC4EB0578-0-image-a-64_1483222827257.jpg
Ji Chang Son, a South Korean celebrity, says his Tesla Model X sped up and
drove straight through his garage in California 

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/12/31/22/3BBECE7B0578-0-image-a-67_1483223219049.jpg
Tesla owner Son posted pictured of his wrecked SUV to Facebook, saying the
car suddenly accelerated in his garage
]

-Ji Chang Son filed a class action suit against Tesla, claiming his white
Model X drove through his garage as he was slowly pulling in

-The company says its investigation shows the crash was solely due to Son
pressing down on the accelerator '100 percent'

-Tesla says the singer/actor gave the company an 'ultimatum' to pay up or he
would 'use his celebrity status to hurt Tesla' 

A South Korean celebrity residing in California is suing Tesla for what he
says is a sudden acceleration that his car had in his garage, driving
through his home's wall.

Ji Chang Son, 46, a well-known singer and actor in South Korea, said he was
driving into his garage in September, when the white electric SUV Model X he
was driving suddenly sped up and crashed through his house. He posted
pictures of it to Facebook.

He filed suit in US District Court in the Central District of California
seeking class action status based on other reports of the same issue,
reports Electrek, which has also been documenting alleged cases of sudden
Tesla accelerations.

The lawsuit cites seven other complaints registered in a database compiled
by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), according to
Reuters.
Son alleges product liability, negligence and breaches of warranty, and
seeks unspecified damages.

Tesla, however, is strongly fighting back, not only saying the accident was
solely Son's fault, but saying he threatened the company if it didn't pay
up.
'We take the safety of our customers very seriously and conducted a thorough
investigation following Mr. Son’s claims. The evidence, including data from
the car, conclusively shows that the crash was the result of Mr. Son
pressing the accelerator pedal all the way to 100 percent,' said Tesla,
according to a statement given to Electrek.

It further went on to say that Son tried to use his celebrity status to
shoehorn a payout.
'Before filing his class action lawsuit against Tesla, Mr. Son had
threatened to use his celebrity status in Korea to hurt Tesla unless we
agreed to make a financial payment and acknowledge that the vehicle
accelerated on its own. However, the evidence clearly shows the vehicle was
not at fault. Our policy is to stand by the evidence and not to give in to
ultimatums,' said the defiant company.

Electrek notes that the issue may be driver fault after all, but that the
vehicle is 'insanely fast' for an SUV and therefore 'a lot less forgiving if
someone was to press the wrong pedal.'
Son is a member of the musical duo The Blue as well an actor who has starred
in various television series.  
Tesla has claimed the the Model X is the safest SUV in history. 
[© Associated Newspapers Ltd]
...
http://english.donga.com/List/3/08/26/816198/1
Son Ji-chang in action against Tesla for SUA in U.S.
January. 02, 2017 ... The 47-year-old 90s popular singer and actor Son
Ji-chang (photo) raised suspicions of a sudden unexpected acceleration (SUA)
of Tesla Model X. Son is ...

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Son-sues-Tesla-after-X-crashes-full-power-on-its-own-into-his-living-room-tp4685157p4685194.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Blew my Curtis 1231C Controller - repair procedures?

[Roland via EV]

Hello Jay,

I have been using a 1000 amp at 300 volt rating motor controller from Café 
Electric for over 15 years.  You can purchase them Directly from Café 
Electric.com who also makes them.  Can be interface with any BMS.


Back in year 2000, my EV weigh 7050 lbs with ninety 300 ah two volt cells.  
Drove two miles uphill every day to work at 55 to 65 mph drawing up to 800 amps 
holding the voltage drop to 12 volts from a no load battery voltage of 192 
volts.


Doing this drive for 10 years, I cook the motor enamel to a dark brown.  No 
problem with the controller and had the 11 inch GE motor which is the same 
frame as a Net Gain Warp 11 motor re-enamel,  Still using this controller today 
on 226 volt 200 ah Li-Poly battery packs with the same EV that now weighs 5500 
lbs.


My motor amps is now about 200 amps and the battery amps normally between 50 
and 100 amps.


This controller also have a motor ampere output  call AMPS ON TACK.  Just use a 
tachometer to read the motor ampere which I think is important.   The motor 
ampere is always higher then the battery amp.


Roland



From: EV  on behalf of Jay Summet via EV 

Sent: Sunday, January 1, 2017 11:56 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Blew my Curtis 1231C Controller - repair procedures?

For those of you following the drama:

A few days ago my main HV fuse blew.

I used a lightbulb to test the Curtis 1231C controller and it was able
to control the bulb when I pressed on the throttle, so I thought it
might be a problem with my motor or wires. After I checked out the motor
and wires and everything appeared OK, I put a new fuse in and gave the
truck a test drive after I was able to spin the motor in neutral just fine.

Everything was fine at low speeds and current (100A or less) but as soon
as I tried to accelerate to 25-35 mph speeds I noticed that my motor was
only getting 300 amps max. In the past I've had it peg my 500 amp meter
under heavy acceleration.

  (This is the point I probably should have let up on the throttle ;>)

After holding the throttle down for about 5 seconds longer than I should
have, the controller failed completely and I was no longer able to get
any current to the motor. (But I had built up enough speed to coast back
home)

My guess:
When my HV fuse blew the first time, it was because one or more of the
IBGT's in the controller had fried (shorted I assume, blowing the fuse).

At some point later, they became "un-shorted" and the remaining
controllers were able to drive the lightbulb and even my motor at low
current draws, but when I tried to use the vehicle at street speeds they
became overwhelmed and then also blew. (At least they did not take out
my replacement fuse this time)

I assume it may be possible to repair the controller by replacing just
the IGBT's if nothing else was fried?

Any pointers on repair procedures?

(I'm also in the market for a replacement controller, see my other
email...I'm thinking of attempting the repair mostly to have a spare and
for the experience...)

Thanks,
Jay
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub

[http://www.evdl.org/images/evdl.jpg]

EVDL Subscription Information and Help
www.evdl.org
About the EVDL: The Electric Vehicle Discussion List, founded in 1991 by EV 
enthusiast Clyde Visser, is an active and vital source of information and help 
for people ...



http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org

EV -- Electric Vehicle Discussion List - lists.evdl.org 
...
lists.evdl.org
The Electric Vehicle Discussion List is a forum for discussing the current 
state of the art and future direction of electric vehicles (EVs). We define an 
EV as a ...



Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/

EVDL EV News Archive - Electric Vehicle Discussion List
evdl.org
EVLN - EV News Archive Edited by Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter: EVLN: home | help | 
archive | news | privacy policy | terms of service



Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101

[Lee Hart via EV]

EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

And, [the Citicar] was the cheapest car in America!


That may have been true for the very earliest ones, but the Citicar that
Consumer Reports tested in 1975 cost them $2946. That included $90 for a
heater (!) and $36 for a spare tire (!).  MSRP for a basic 1975 Toyota
Corolla 2-door was $2711, heater and spare tire standard.


That's one data point. But the price for cars is always "negotiable", so 
it's hard to know what the average selling price was.


My CitiCar suggested price list (dated Dec 1, 1975) says $2690 for the 
car, $20 dealer prep, and $85 freight for a total of $2795. This was for 
the 48v version (the 36v model was cheaper). That was to my dealer in 
Rochester NY from Sebring FL. Sales tax, license, and registration would 
have made it about what Consumer Reports paid.


I suspect the 1975 Toyota price did not include all the mandatory fees. 
So as far as I know, the CitiCar *was* the cheapest car in America at 
the time. Later, the ComutaCar was still being advertised as the 
cheapest car.



The problem is that it was such a tiny company that they couldn't
afford to put the quality into it. Great idea; poor implementation.



Unfortunately, potential buyers don't care about such details.  They see
only the prices they pay, and what they get for their money.

The "EV Bobs" were great guys, and had a fair bit of practical experience,
but they seem to have been out of touch with modern (1970s) vehicle design.


I think it was simply that they didn't have the money, resources, or 
time to get it right. They did amazingly well with what little they had 
to work with. Bob himself always called it the "ShittyCar".



For all their failings, the EV Bobs had a vision and a real dedication to
it.  If they could have sold more EVs, ramped up production, and stayed in
business for a decade or so longer, I think that eventually economy of scale
would have kicked in and made it possible for them to solve at least some of
the problems.

But they didn't get that kind of time.  Fuel prices plummeted in the early
1980s, syphoning off what little demand existed for EVs in the mid to late
1970s.


Exactly right!

I see the situation as a lot like the early microcomputer business. The 
early ones were terrible! Expensive, low performance, hard to use, 
unreliable; because they were built by tiny companies with almost no 
experience or resources.


But there were no "big guys" in the market, so the little guys had time 
to learn and improve. They had a good 5-10 years before the likes of IBM 
etc. jumped in, and basically crowded out everyone but the few that had 
grown enough to compete.


Not so with the car business. If a start-up can't make a great car right 
from the start, they will be run out of business by the Big Guys before 
they have a chance to learn or improve.


--
Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
implement, test, and execute!
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Controller hunt: In the market for a Curtis 1231C-860 replacement

[Matt Lacey via EV]

A ZEVA 1000A controller is around USD$1300 if you get a display as well:
http://www.zeva.com.au/index.php?product=121

That's the one I use on my conversion, after my 1231C died

The 600A controller is cheaper, I just prefer the additional power

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of John Lussmyer via
EV
Sent: Monday,02 January, 2017 7:29 AM
To: brucedp5; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Controller hunt: In the market for a Curtis 1231C-860
replacement

On Sun Jan 01 15:01:31 PST 2017 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>Any EV parts company I mention, I am not recommending, just using their 
>site as an example.
>
>New Curtis controller will be in the $2000 price range.
>The evwest site shows a Soliton Jr controller $1900
>http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_id=48

And a Z1K from Manzanita is $2000.
http://manzanitamicro.com/products?page=shop.browse_id=33=1


--

Bobcats and Cougars, oh my!  http://john.casadelgato.com/Pets
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag
racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] Controller hunt: In the market for a Curtis 1231C-860 replacement

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Sun Jan 01 15:01:31 PST 2017 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>Any EV parts company I mention, I am not recommending, just using their site
>as an example.
>
>New Curtis controller will be in the $2000 price range.
>The evwest site shows a Soliton Jr controller $1900
>http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_id=48

And a Z1K from Manzanita is $2000.
http://manzanitamicro.com/products?page=shop.browse_id=33=1


--

Bobcats and Cougars, oh my!  http://john.casadelgato.com/Pets
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] Controller hunt: In the market for a Curtis 1231C-860 replacement

[brucedp5 via EV]

Jay's conversion
http://www.evalbum.com/3693
 is about the same weight as my former S-10 Blazer EV. Over time I blew two
Curtis (1221x vintage) controllers. I wanted a more robust controller, one
that would not burn up, and catch fire (Curtis controllers had a nickname of
cursit because of their nasty habit of dying).

Any EV parts company I mention, I am not recommending, just using their site
as an example.

New Curtis controller will be in the $2000 price range.
The evwest site shows a Soliton Jr controller $1900
http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_id=48

Here is the company's spec page:
http://www.evnetics.com/evnetics-products/soliton-jr/


Usually it is our sys admin that recommends that people look at:
evtradinpost.com
 specifically their controller section:
http://www.evtradinpost.com/list/30

 which shows:
Kelly KDH14801E -- price reduced$ 600.00
Kelly KDH14801E motor controller w/regenerative braking. Designed for
permanent magnet DC motor, nominally 144 V, but due to regen can handle up
to 180 V on the battery side. Essentially new, briefly wired in to my car
but never permanently mounted. Didn't physically fit well, and my motor then
failed. Accepts separate 0-5 V input signals for throttle and regen control.
I can supply one or two Hall-effect throttle units for additional cost.
Includes connectors, precharge resistor. See Kelly site for specs.


The owner was using it on a permanent magnet motor. So a search
https://www.google.com/search?q=Kelly+KDH14801E

I found a page that states the same controller will work on Jay's 9" ADC
motor:
http://kellycontroller.com/high-efficient-kdh14801e24-144v800a-pm-with-regen-p-746.html




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/In-the-market-for-a-Curtis-1231C-860-replacement-tp4685179p4685189.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 1 Jan 2017 at 14:54, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

> The ABS plastic [used in C-cars] actually held up pretty well,
> considering its age. The main problem was UV damage from the sun.
> Painting it goes a long way towards protecting it. 

Jim Tervort, who took over C-car support for a while in the late 1980s and 
early 1990s, told me that the factory used catalyzed acrylic enamel.  He 
claimed that it provided good UV protection, and that aftermarket paints 
might not protect as well.

All that said, if you're in the market for a used C-car, it's probably best 
to look for one which has been garaged as much as possible.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] Crisitello's replacement Citicar(Sebring) parts: EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101

[brucedp5 via EV]

Those seeking to contact Peter Crisitello for replacement Sebring-Vanguard
parts, and did not figure out the email address Gail provided, his email
address is also listed at the bottom of the .pdf URLs that she posted, and I
confirmed it is the same as on his EValbum page:
http://www.evalbum.com/2015

To keep spa mmers at bay, here is an image that shows his email address:
http://www.evalbum.com/mailimg.php?1055


For those that want to know more about this 1970's EV:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citicar
The CitiCar was produced between 1974 and 1977 by a U.S. company called
Sebring-Vanguard, Inc., based in Sebring, Florida. The CitiCar and variants
were ...
...
[videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVcXgzWEODc
Sep 6, 2009 - Uploaded by RaleighSenior  Sebring-Vanguard CitiCar 5:45
A tour of the 1975 CitiCar Be sure to check out: 
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/C-Car/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS0mJ1UL8Jg
Sep 2, 2014 - Uploaded by Jack R  1975 Sebring Vanguard Citicar Orng
Lakeland090114  1:42
This car was made at a facility at the Sebring Florida airport. That airport
had been an airbase during WWII, but ...
]
...
[links
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/C-Car/info

(you must log into your facebook account to access these pages)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/VanguardCitiCarRegistry/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/375351485825419/
]




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVLN-EV-newswire-posts-for-20170101-tp4685177p4685187.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101

[Lee Hart via EV]

If only the CCars had been made with more durable plastic. If only
someone would make replacement bodies out of more durable material.



Gail Lucas via EV wrote:

As of July of 2016 Peter has replacement parts but I don't know if they
are also ABS.


Good info, Gail!

The ABS plastic actually held up pretty well, considering its age. The 
main problem was UV damage from the sun. Painting it goes a long way 
towards protecting it.


I had a ComutaVan. It had been painted on the outside, so the plastic 
was in fairly good shape. But it was *not* painted inside; so that is 
where the UV damage occurred. The plastic yellowed and became brittle 
wherever the sun hit it.


It's also pretty easy to make replacement panels. The original panels 
were vacuum-formed over a wooden mold. When I trailered my ComutaVan to 
Minnesota, the "hood" body panel blew off! I went to a plastics shop, 
and bought a sheet of ABS plastic. I made a wooden form (the panels were 
almost flat, with bends at the edges. I used a hot air gun to form the 
bends. I then used a hot air plastic "welder" to attach it, and patch up 
the cracks and missing pieces where it had broken off. It didn't turn 
out too bad for a first effort.



'peter crisitel' crisi...@rci.rutgers.edu

So, you own an electric Citicar, Comuta-Car, or C-Car Postal Van, and
need body panels for your restoration?
There is precisely ONE person on the planet that has a large NOS stock
of panels, and he is standing by to help you!

Here are links to two pages of parts and prices. When you are done
pondering these lists, write Peter Crisitello and let him know what you
need.

LIST OF CITICAR AND COMUTA-CAR BODY PANELS

http://rci.rutgers.edu/~crisitel/EV/Inventory%20C-Car%20Parts%20w-Price.pdf

LIST OF C-CAR POSTAL VAN BODY PANELS

http://rci.rutgers.edu/~crisitel/EV/Inventory%20Postal%20Parts%20w-Price.pdf


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)





--
Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
implement, test, and execute!
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 1 Jan 2017 at 12:26, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

> And, [the Citicar] was the cheapest car in America! 

That may have been true for the very earliest ones, but the Citicar that 
Consumer Reports tested in 1975 cost them $2946.  That included $90 for a 
heater (!) and $36 for a spare tire (!).  MSRP for a basic 1975 Toyota 
Corolla 2-door was $2711, heater and spare tire standard.

Even neglecting the C-car's optional heater and spare tire, there was just 
no comparison on basic utility, comfort, and safety.  The Toyota was even 
quieter than the Citicar, except maybe when they were standing at a 
stoplight.

You could argue that it's not entirely fair to compare the cars' prices.  
The Corolla was a mass produced car with most of its design costs amortized 
and/or shared with other cars in the Toyota range.  The Citicar was hand-
built in very small numbers.  

Unfortunately, potential buyers don't care about such details.  They see 
only the prices they pay, and what they get for their money.

> The problem is that it was such a tiny company that they couldn't
> afford to put the quality into it. Great idea; poor implementation. 

The "EV Bobs" were great guys, and had a fair bit of practical experience, 
but they seem to have been out of touch with modern (1970s) vehicle design.  
Their cars didn't have the basic design principles of even 1940s cars.  GM 
and Chrysler had introduced independent front suspension in 1934; the 
Citicar and all its descendants had a 1920s-style solid front axle with leaf 
springs.  The earliest Citicars didn't even have shock absorbers!

Sebring-Vanguard did fit seat belts, but they ignored most other standard 
safety factors such as a collapsing steering column (introduced on other 
cars in 1967), safe interior design, and side intrusion door reinforcement.  
The bumpers were 2x4s dunked in foam, for goodness sake!

The brakes, aircraft disc or later Bendix drum, were barely adequate for the 
speeds the car could reach.  The earliest cars didn't have a dual master 
cylinder, so a hydraulic leak anywhere would result in a complete loss of 
braking ability.

For all their failings, the EV Bobs had a vision and a real dedication to 
it.  If they could have sold more EVs, ramped up production, and stayed in 
business for a decade or so longer, I think that eventually economy of scale 
would have kicked in and made it possible for them to solve at least some of 
the problems.  

But they didn't get that kind of time.  Fuel prices plummeted in the early 
1980s, syphoning off what little demand existed for EVs in the mid to late 
1970s.

To their credit, Sebring-Vanguard, and later Commuter Vehicles Inc, did 
start to address some of the problems in the later Comuta-Cars and 
especially in the Comuta-van / Postal Van  But there were just too many 
problems, and with those falling gasoline prices, they ran out of customers 
and money.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101

[Lee Hart via EV]

Willie via EV wrote:

On 01/01/2017 12:26 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

I think that is what Bob Beaumont and Bob Rice were after with the
CitiCar. Simple as dirt, fun to drive, and so ugly it's cute. And, it


A year or so ago, I read Beaumont's book titled The Lost Cord.
Fascinating! Bob Rice was only briefly mentioned in it. While Bob Rice
was with us, I wish I had known enough to interrogate him about his
experiences. The book deals only with the CitiCar, not the CommuCar or
Tropica.

If only the CCars had been made with more durable plastic. If only
someone would make replacement bodies out of more durable material.


Bob Beaumont was the car dealer and money man -- he knew marketing and 
sales. Bob Rice was the engineer that actually designed and built them 
-- he had already been building and selling EV prototypes for years.


There's more about Bob Rice, and a picture of his 1964 "Electroliner" EV 
at .


The Electroliner was a great DIY car. Imagine a CitiCar, but with:

- a welded steel frame (instead of aluminum pipe)
- a marine plywood body (instead of plastic)
- two golf cart motors (instead of one)
- no differential; each motor drove its wheel independently
with a 5:1 gear reduction
- contactor controller with both series/parallel battery *and*
series/parallel motor switching (this gave it two "gears"
for good hill-climbing and faster acceleration).
- simple! Bob said he built it for $500 in his driveway in a few weeks

--
Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
implement, test, and execute!
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101

[Gail Lucas via EV]

On 1/1/2017 11:15 AM, Willie via EV wrote:

> A year or so ago, I read Beaumont's book titled The Lost Cord.
> Fascinating!  Bob Rice was only briefly mentioned in it.  While Bob Rice
> was with us, I wish I had known enough to interrogate him about his
> experiences.  The book deals only with the CitiCar, not the CommuCar or
> Tropica.
>
> If only the CCars had been made with more durable plastic.  If only
> someone would make replacement bodies out of more durable material.

Willie,

As of July of 2016 Peter has replacement parts but I don't know if they 
are also ABS. If you have an urge to restore a Citicar I have at least 
one I would make available for the project.


Info regarding body parts in stock:

'peter crisitel' crisi...@rci.rutgers.edu

So, you own an electric Citicar, Comuta-Car, or C-Car Postal Van, and 
need body panels for your restoration?
There is precisely ONE person on the planet that has a large NOS stock 
of panels, and he is standing by to help you!


Here are links to two pages of parts and prices. When you are done 
pondering these lists, write Peter Crisitello and let him know what you 
need.


LIST OF CITICAR AND COMUTA-CAR BODY PANELS

http://rci.rutgers.edu/~crisitel/EV/Inventory%20C-Car%20Parts%20w-Price.pdf

LIST OF C-CAR POSTAL VAN BODY PANELS

http://rci.rutgers.edu/~crisitel/EV/Inventory%20Postal%20Parts%20w-Price.pdf

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Back then the Citicar was competing with ICE cars like the Pinto and the Vega. 
Either could be had for about $3,600 in 1976. The Citicar was about $1,000 
higher at about $4,600. 

Tom Keenan

> On Jan 1, 2017, at 10:26 AM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
> 
> EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
>>> The result is a vehicle that closely resembles the Isetta of old, just
>>> a bit bigger and rounder...
> 
>> This is a pretty good start... The problem is the price... Make it cute,
>> make it fun... and make it cheap.
> 
> I think that is what Bob Beaumont and Bob Rice were after with the CitiCar. 
> Simple as dirt, fun to drive, and so ugly it's cute. And, it was the cheapest 
> car in America! This is why they sold thousands of the little buggers.
> 
> The problem is that it was such a tiny company that they couldn't afford to 
> put the quality into it. Great idea; poor implementation.
> 
> -- 
> Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
> Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
> implement, test, and execute!
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101

[Willie via EV]

On 01/01/2017 12:26 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:


I think that is what Bob Beaumont and Bob Rice were after with the
CitiCar. Simple as dirt, fun to drive, and so ugly it's cute. And, it


A year or so ago, I read Beaumont's book titled The Lost Cord. 
Fascinating!  Bob Rice was only briefly mentioned in it.  While Bob Rice 
was with us, I wish I had known enough to interrogate him about his 
experiences.  The book deals only with the CitiCar, not the CommuCar or 
Tropica.


If only the CCars had been made with more durable plastic.  If only 
someone would make replacement bodies out of more durable material.

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] Blew my Curtis 1231C Controller - repair procedures?

[Jay Summet via EV]

For those of you following the drama:

A few days ago my main HV fuse blew.

I used a lightbulb to test the Curtis 1231C controller and it was able 
to control the bulb when I pressed on the throttle, so I thought it 
might be a problem with my motor or wires. After I checked out the motor 
and wires and everything appeared OK, I put a new fuse in and gave the 
truck a test drive after I was able to spin the motor in neutral just fine.


Everything was fine at low speeds and current (100A or less) but as soon 
as I tried to accelerate to 25-35 mph speeds I noticed that my motor was 
only getting 300 amps max. In the past I've had it peg my 500 amp meter 
under heavy acceleration.


 (This is the point I probably should have let up on the throttle ;>)

After holding the throttle down for about 5 seconds longer than I should 
have, the controller failed completely and I was no longer able to get 
any current to the motor. (But I had built up enough speed to coast back 
home)


My guess:
When my HV fuse blew the first time, it was because one or more of the 
IBGT's in the controller had fried (shorted I assume, blowing the fuse).


At some point later, they became "un-shorted" and the remaining 
controllers were able to drive the lightbulb and even my motor at low 
current draws, but when I tried to use the vehicle at street speeds they 
became overwhelmed and then also blew. (At least they did not take out 
my replacement fuse this time)


I assume it may be possible to repair the controller by replacing just 
the IGBT's if nothing else was fried?


Any pointers on repair procedures?

(I'm also in the market for a replacement controller, see my other 
email...I'm thinking of attempting the repair mostly to have a spare and 
for the experience...)


Thanks,
Jay
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] In the market for a Curtis 1231C-860 replacement

[Jay Summet via EV]

I'm in the market for a DC motor controller, 144V system (133 v max 
LiIon), 400+ amps.


A Curtis 1231C would be a drop in replacement, but since that's the one 
that blew I'm also willing to replace it with something else.


Will consider new or used.

Jay
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101

[Lee Hart via EV]

EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

The result is a vehicle that closely resembles the Isetta of old, just
a bit bigger and rounder...



This is a pretty good start... The problem is the price... Make it cute,
make it fun... and make it cheap.


I think that is what Bob Beaumont and Bob Rice were after with the 
CitiCar. Simple as dirt, fun to drive, and so ugly it's cute. And, it 
was the cheapest car in America! This is why they sold thousands of the 
little buggers.


The problem is that it was such a tiny company that they couldn't afford 
to put the quality into it. Great idea; poor implementation.


--
Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
implement, test, and execute!
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

> The result is a vehicle that closely resembles the Isetta of old, just
> a bit bigger and rounder ... 15-kilowatt electric motor ... The
> Microlino tops out at 62 mph, goes 60 to 75 miles on a charge, and
> weighs just 880 pounds ... It will cost somewhere between $9,000 and
> $13,500 ... 

This is a pretty good start.  They're in the same general league as the 
Renault Twizy, which has had a moderate if variable success in the EU.  I 
bet this EV will have more visual appeal and nostalgia factor.  It might 
even be more comfortable.

The problem is the price.  A Twizy costs way less -- around $7500 last time 
I looked, though that doesn't include the battery, which Renault wants to 
lease to you.

As far as practicality goes, forget it.  A Suzuki Celerio ICE costs UK£7k 
(~US$8600) and has WAY more utility than this little guy.  Add another £1k 
or ~$1k, and you can have a Hyundai i10 or Nissan Micra.  

A price far enough below the cheapest ICEV can drop an EV like this into -- 
forgive me for putting it this way -- big-kid-toy territory.  Make it cute, 
make it fun (meaning brisk acceleration and tight handling), and make it 
cheap.  Youi'll sell it to the wealthy (and those who think they are) as a 
3rd or 4th vehicle for weekend gadabouts.  

The the key is CHEAP.  I could be wrong, but I don't think even $9k is going 
to cut it in that neighborhood.  This is a great idea, but IMO they're going 
to have to try harder on the price.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Wexler-s-Solar-Cycle-3whl-EV-r-175mi-60mph-sun-ts-95mph-0-65mph-10s-td4685175.html
EVLN: Wexler's Solar Cycle 3whl EV r:175mi@60mph+sun ts:95mph 0-65mph:10s
New solar car in Florida
A new one hundred percent solar powered car is an official contender for the
XPRIZE …

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-The-Microlino-lsEV-is-the-Electric-reincarnation-of-the-Isetta-ice-td4685174.html
EVLN: The Microlino lsEV is the Electric reincarnation of the Isetta ice
Years ago we wrote about how tiny cars were “almost cheaper than walking”,
and praising the virtues of BMW's postwar Isetta ...

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Street-straddling-Transit-Elevated-e-Bus-gt-abandoned-media-cn-killed-it-td4685173.html
EVLN: Street-straddling Transit Elevated e-Bus> (abandoned, media.cn killed
it)
Bumpy road ahead for China's 'straddling bus'
By virtue of being an electric vehicle, the bus was seen to espouse the
cause of the environment ... ignited global interest ... each straddling bus
would replace some 40 conventional buses ...

+
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Solar-storage-off-grid-Superchargers-gt-another-fun-Elon-tweetstorm-td4685172.html
Solar + storage = off-grid Superchargers> (another fun Elon tweetstorm)
Solar-Powered Tesla Superchargers With Extreme Power ...
how many Tesla Superchargers currently include solar panels ... you'd be
hard pressed to find a solar-powered Supercharger ... acquisition of
SolarCity ... seems to be ideal for a solar Supercharging update ...




http://evdl.org/evln/
For all EVLN EV-newswire posts


{brucedp.neocities.org}

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EV-newswire-posts-for-20170101-tp4685176.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)