[EVDL] EVtheft: tablet reads entry fob> easier than unplugging (v)

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/22/tesla-model-s-theft-keyfob-hack/
Thieves steal a Tesla Model S by hacking the entry fob
Breaking in to the EV was easier than unplugging it.
2018-10-22  Steve Dent

[videos
https://www.youtube.com/embed/odG2GX4_cUQ
Tesla Model S Being Stolen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joqjs0SXN0k
]

A Tesla owner who recorded thieves stealing his Model S by hacking the
passive entry system has published the video on YouTube so we can all watch
(and learn). It shows the crooks using a tablet to apparently capture the
passive signal from his keyfob, then using the data to open the vehicle.
Amusingly, the pair didn't drive off as quickly as they could have simply
because they couldn't figure out how to detach the charging cable (hint:
there's a button).

Tesla has recently implemented features to deter passive entry theft, but
the owner sheepishly admitted he didn't use them. Namely, he failed to
activate the "PIN to drive" feature that requires a further code before you
can drive off. He also left passive entry -- which opens the car when you
walk up to it with the fob -- enabled, even though it was parked outside. He
also didn't use a "Faraday pouch" to store the fob, which would have
prevented the thieves from nabbing the signals.

Tesla vehicles are rarely stolen compared to other models, but a rash of
recent UK thefts may have been pulled off in a similar fashion. As such, if
you're leaving your Tesla outside, it's highly advisable to enable PIN to
drive and to disable passive entry. In any event, as Kennedy points out,
"that doesn't negate the fact that I'm a victim of theft and these two
should be caught." So if you recognize them, feel free to call the cops, er,
bobbies.

Video
Presenter: Terrence O'Brien
Script: Terrence O'Brien
Script Editor: Dana Wollman
Camera: Taylor Ligay
Editor: Liviu Oprescu
Producer: Michael Morris
Via: Electrek
Source: Antony Kennedy (YouTube)
[© engadget.com]
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=steal+tesla+fob
search  steal+tesla+fob
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=steal+car+fob
search  steal+car+fob


https://finance.yahoo.com/m/f81b3865-aaef-30ec-9edf-e7fca7739a1f/thieves-steal-a-tesla-model-s.html
Thieves steal a Tesla Model S by hacking the entry fob
October 22, 2018  Steve Dent

image  
https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/CcPPWbAvehqgq2oGreCfSg--~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/homerun/engadget_479/075e5a791ca24d6a77bd28d41de16fd8
Thieves steal a Tesla Model S by hacking the entry fob
]

A Tesla owner who recorded thieves stealing his Model S by hacking the
passive entry system has published the video on YouTube so we can all watch
(and learn). Tesla has recently implemented features to deter passive entry
theft, but the owner sheepishly admitted he didn't use them. Tesla vehicles
are rarely stolen compared to other models, but a rash of recent UK thefts
may have been pulled off in a similar fashion ...
[© finance.yahoo.com]




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 http://evdl.org/archive/


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[EVDL] Lithium EV battery in colder weather

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

I know that Lithium batteries perform worse at lower temps.  But what does
that mean?

Charging, or using? which is worse.

For example, in the winter,  is it better to charge in the evening when I
come home and battery is warmer or to put it into charge-by-7AM mode and
have it charge the battry when much colder, but the result is a warmer
battery when I start to use it at 7 AM?

So does cold prevent the battery from accepting a given capacity, or does
cold prevent one from using a given capacity that is already in the battery?

Bob
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-3 drive unit gear pictures after testing

[robert winfield via EV]

 when did Tesla haters take over the EVDL?

On Monday, October 22, 2018, 10:18:27 PM EDT, EVDL Administrator via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 On 22 Oct 2018 at 19:36, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

> Tesla says that the Model 3 drive system is designed and validated for over
> one million miles of range.

Hey, Fred Lambert, that word that you used, "range" -- at least in an EV, it 
doesn't mean what you think it means.  :-\

I take it this was a lab simulation, not a real world road test?

If what I read is right, and indeed I might be misunderstanding, the big-
battery 3 has a claimed range of 310 miles. If you charge it to 80% at a 
supercharger, that takes 40 minutes, and then you get about 250 miles before 
you have to stop again to charge.  (If you'd told me 30 years agao that I'd 
be writing something like that about an EV, I never would have believed 
you.)

Anyway, at 60mph (neglecting acceleration time), you can drive 4h 10m, then 
you charge for 40 min again.  Thus you can make 250 miles per 4h 50m, or 
about 1250mi per day.  (Something else I never expected to write.)

You'd need 800 days (2 years 2 months 9 days) to cover a million miles.  And 
that's assuming that you have at least 2 and maybe 3 drivers taking turns at 
the wheel, and sleeping in the car.  Or maybe they could use a chase vehicle 
with more comfortable sleeping quarters.

I guess it's possible that this was a genuine road test, but does the 2 year 
plus time line make sense?.

If it's true, it's certainly good to hear that the transaxle should last 
that long.  Now what about all the other parts in the car?  

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-3 drive unit gear pictures after testing

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 22 Oct 2018 at 19:36, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

> Tesla says that the Model 3 drive system is designed and validated for over
> one million miles of range.

Hey, Fred Lambert, that word that you used, "range" -- at least in an EV, it 
doesn't mean what you think it means.  :-\

I take it this was a lab simulation, not a real world road test?

If what I read is right, and indeed I might be misunderstanding, the big-
battery 3 has a claimed range of 310 miles. If you charge it to 80% at a 
supercharger, that takes 40 minutes, and then you get about 250 miles before 
you have to stop again to charge.  (If you'd told me 30 years agao that I'd 
be writing something like that about an EV, I never would have believed 
you.)

Anyway, at 60mph (neglecting acceleration time), you can drive 4h 10m, then 
you charge for 40 min again.  Thus you can make 250 miles per 4h 50m, or 
about 1250mi per day.  (Something else I never expected to write.)

You'd need 800 days (2 years 2 months 9 days) to cover a million miles.  And 
that's assuming that you have at least 2 and maybe 3 drivers taking turns at 
the wheel, and sleeping in the car.  Or maybe they could use a chase vehicle 
with more comfortable sleeping quarters.

I guess it's possible that this was a genuine road test, but does the 2 year 
plus time line make sense?.

If it's true, it's certainly good to hear that the transaxle should last 
that long.  Now what about all the other parts in the car?  

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


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Re: [EVDL] unfurling panels [was: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars]

[Hoegberg via EV]

 to give its vehicle a 30-km boost out of a 250-km
>> >> (155-mile) battery range. Meanwhile, Dutch startup behind
>> >> LightyearOne claims its electric car will “charge itself.” Although
>> >> it has yet to unveil a vehicle, potential customers can put down
>> >> deposits for a €119.000 ($157,000) car promising to travel 10,000
>>to
>> >> 20,000 km per year (6,200 to 12,400 miles) on its solar panels
>>alone.
>> >>
>> >> The Sono Motors Car
>> >>
>> >> Will it work? Don’t bet on it, says Jeremy Michalek, a professor of
>> >> mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University and director
>>of
>> >> its Vehicle Electrification Group.
>> >>
>> >> Quartz asked Michalek to estimate how far the best solar panels
>>could
>> >> propel a typical electric car on the market. He broke down the math
>> >> for us.
>> >>
>> >> Michalek says about 1 kilowatt (kW) of solar energy falls on a
>>square
>> >> meter of the Earth’s surface on a clear day. That’s all the solar
>> >> energy available to collect. For a company like Sono, which says it
>> >> can convert about a quarter of that energy into electricity
>>(although
>> >> that’s very optimistic), a full site of panels might generate
>>roughly
>> >> 8 kilowatt hours of energy per day (a best-case scenario with four
>> >> square meters of solar panels).
>> >>
>> >> Michalek says that’s enough to drive a car like the comparable
>>Nissan
>> >> Leaf about 25 miles. But there are many reasons (clouds, poor panel
>> >> positioning, dirt), this number will rarely be reached. As for
>> >> LightyearOne and its claims that you’ll never need to charge your
>>car
>> >> in the future? The odds are tough. The maximum conversion rate for
>> >> cheap silicon cells to turn sunlight into electricity is just under
>> >> 33%, and more exotic materials that achieve 44% efficiency are far
>> >> too expensive for mass production. Without a revolutionary
>> >> breakthough in solar panel technology, cars that can recharge
>> >> themselves with the sun alone remain fantastical.
>> >>
>> >> Does that mean putting solar panels on cars is always a bad idea?
>> >> Maybe not.
>> >> A sunny day can tack on enough miles to cover the average US
>>commute.
>> >> But Michalek says that’s an expensive way to extend the car’s
>>range.
>> >> Anyone with a charging outlet can get renewable energy from the
>>wall
>> >> for a lot less.
>> >> Sign up for the Quartz Daily Brief email Stay updated about Quartz
>> >> products and events.
>> >> [© qz.com]
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> +
>> >>
>> >>
>>https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/driverless-car-hype-gives-way-
>> >> e-scooter-mania-among-technorati-n919706
>> >> Driverless car hype gives way to e-scooter mania among technorati
>> >> Oct. 13, 2018  Driverless car hype gives way to e-scooter mania
>>among
>> >> technorati ... In a matter of months, electric scooter startups
>>have
>> >> gone from tech oddity to global ... Millions of dollars in funding
>> >> and billions of dollars in valuations have made scooters the next
>>big
>> >> thing since the last big thing ...
>> >>
>> >>
>>https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2018_28/2491731/180709-bird-sc
>> >>
>>ooter-san-francisco-njs-1541_0d7cd3431408077aac647d098c7ba8a7.fit-124
>> >> 0w.jpg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>> >>   http://evdl.org/archive/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Sent from:
>> >> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>> >> ___
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>> >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> >>
>> >>
>>
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>>
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[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20181023

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2019-Kona-EV-Keen-to-one-up-a-worthy-quail-s-egg-tp4691595.html
EVLN: 2019 Kona EV> Keen to one-up – a worthy quail’s-egg
2019 Hyundai Kona Electric First Drive – Worthy Competition
October 15, 2018  Until recently, anyone wanting a purely electric vehicle
capable of driving beyond the confines of a daily commute was stuck shelling
out the big bucks ...
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/20181009_100135-e1539586786681-610x421.jpg


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Tesla-3-drive-unit-gear-pictures-after-testing-tp4691596.html
EVLN: Tesla-3 drive unit gear pictures after testing
Tesla releases impressive pictures of Model 3 drive unit after test, Musk
says they drove 1M miles
Oct. 15th 2018  The electric truck is using Model 3 drive units and it's
putting them to the test through ... If that ever becomes a reality, a Model
3 vehicle on the network could ...
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1051917544301285376


+
https://www.insidehook.com/nation/toylander-1948-land-rover-electric-car
You Can Now Buy a 1948 Series 1 Land Rover … for Your Toddler
05 October 2018 … the Series 1 is fully electric, handmade-to-order and
includes a pair of motors, two batteries, a charger, a spare wheel ...
...
https://9to5toys.com/2018/10/05/toylander-1948-series-1-land-rover/
Toylander 1948 Series 1 Land Rover
2018/10/05  It began as a company called ‘Real Life Toys’ with a focus on
creating scaled-down versions of popular classic vehicles ...


http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/10/20181016-byd.html
BYD unveils new electric airport GSE tow tractor models
16 October 2018  The world’s largest manufacturer of electric vehicles and
batteries, BYD provides the chassis, battery, and charger ...
https://bioage.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c4fbe53ef022ad3993d12200d-550wi


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Apple-Converter-ensures-EV-comforts-don-t-suffer-load-transients-tp4691558.html
Apple Converter ensures EV comforts don't suffer load-transients
Apple invents a Battery System Designed to keep Electric or Hybrid Vehicle
Creature Comforts working at all times
Back in May Patently Apple posted a report titled "Apple's Autonomous
Shuttle Service will use Volkswagen Vans." ...
https://media.idownloadblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/apple-patent-dc-power.jpg




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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[EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-3 drive unit gear pictures after testing

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://electrek.co/2018/10/15/tesla-drive-after-million-miles-test/
Tesla releases impressive pictures of Model 3 drive unit after test, Musk
says they drove 1M miles
Oct. 15th 2018  Fred Lambert

[images  
https://i1.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/10/Tesla-Model-3-drive-unit-header.jpg?resize=1500%2C0=82=all=1

https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/10/Tesla-Model-3-drive-unit-2.jpeg?w=496=372=82=all=1
Tesla Model 3 drive unit 2

https://i2.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/10/Tesla-Model-3-drive-unit-1.jpeg?w=496=372=82=all=1
Tesla Model 3 drive unit 1


share
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1051917544301285376
Elon Musk  @elonmusk
Model 3 motor & gearbox still in good condition after driving 1M miles.
Designed for ultra high endurance.

Tesla @Tesla
The Model 3 drive system is designed and validated for over 1 million miles
– this is what the gears look like after testing
2:27 PM - Oct 15, 2018 
]

Tesla says that the Model 3 drive system is designed and validated for over
one million miles of range.

Today, the automaker released impressive pictures of Model 3 drive units
after testing, which Elon Musk says “drove 1M miles”.

We reported just last week that the Tesla Semi is clearing a path for the
company’s goal of a one million-mile electric drivetrain.

The electric truck is using Model 3 drive units and it’s putting them to the
test through long distance driving and pulling of heavy loads.

In 2015, Musk said that they “want drive units that just never wear out”,
resulting in Tesla changing their aim to one million miles in their
endurance tests.

“We are very happy with the quality of the drive unit. We changed the
goal of the drive unit endurance from being approximately 200,000 miles to
being a million miles – just basically we want drive units that just never
wear out. That’s our goal. I think we made really good progress in that
direction. the drive unit that are going out now and for the last several
months have been excellent.”

Now, Tesla released pictures of some Model 3 drive unit gears after testing:

Here is Musk’s initial tweet on the units, including Tesla’s official one
million mile claim:

Tesla is producing the Model 3 drive units at the Gigafactory 1 in Nevada.

Electrek’s Take

That’s good news for the long-term value of Model 3.

One thing that I have always suspected about Model 3 is that Tesla designed
it for its upcoming self-driving ride-hailing service ‘Tesla network’.

The phone-based access, the cabin-facing camera, and other features like
those point to the vehicle being designed around the service.

If that ever becomes a reality, a Model 3 vehicle on the network could
become really profitable and more so the longer it can run.

A one million mile drive unit could certainly be helpful on that front.
[© electrek.co]


+
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/10/20181016-byd.html
BYD unveils new electric airport GSE tow tractor models
16 October 2018  The world’s largest manufacturer of electric vehicles and
batteries, BYD provides the chassis, battery, and charger ...
https://bioage.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c4fbe53ef022ad3993d12200d-550wi




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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[EVDL] EVLN: 2019 Kona EV> Keen to one-up – a worthy quail’s-egg

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/10/2019-hyundai-kona-electric-first-drive-worthy-competition/
2019 Hyundai Kona Electric First Drive – Worthy Competition
October 15, 2018  Matt Posky

[images  Hyundai; © 2018 Matt Posky/TTAC
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Hyundai-Kona-EV-867-e1539588661399-610x407.jpg

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Hyundai-Kona-EV-888-e1539588893301-610x414.jpg

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Hyundai-Kona-EV-1208-610x407.jpg

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Hyundai-Kona-EV-1217-610x407.jpg

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Hyundai-Kona-EV-780-610x407.jpg

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Hyundai-Kona-EV-803-610x407.jpg

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/20181009_095401-e1539586821891-610x445.jpg

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/B84I4064-Edit-610x406.jpg

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Hyundai-Kona-EV-1057-610x407.jpg

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/B84I4046-Edit-610x407.jpg

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Hyundai-Kona-EV-parked-1-610x407.jpeg

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/20181009_100135-e1539586786681-610x421.jpg
]

Until recently, anyone wanting a purely electric vehicle capable of driving
beyond the confines of a daily commute was stuck shelling out the big bucks.
Then Chevrolet introduced the Bolt in 2016, proving that 200+ miles of range
wasn’t out of the question. With most EV competitors achieving just over
half that, it seemed like it might be awhile before we saw another
mainstream nameplate surpass that achievement.

Keen to one-up the Americans (even though the Bolt was developed by GM
Korea), Hyundai has come forward with the 2019 Kona Electric. This
subcompact crossover replaces its standard four-cylinder and fuel tank for
an electric motor and 64-kWh battery pack. The end result is a familiar
platform with an unfamiliar powertrain that’s capable of 258 all-electric
miles, according to the manufacturer. It also happens to be quite enjoyable
to drive. The Kona even hums like an an angel at low speeds, something I
found wildly entertaining as I wheeled it around Los Angeles.

If I had to be run over by a car, I would love for that noise to be the last
thing I heard before the world went dark. 


Full Disclosure: Hyundai flew me out to California and put me up in the
Sunset Marquis hotel in order to test both the Kona EV and ... They also
provided meals for the duration of the drive event and ...


During our pitstop, I popped the hood to see if I could find the source of
this magical sound. This was the press equivalent of shaking a bag of dog
food, as every journalist immediately flocked to my teal Kona to take photos
of the “engine bay.” But it also provided an opportunity to compare notes. I
mentioned that the Bolt’s pedestrian alert sounds like a dial-up modem
compared to the Hyundai, whose warning noise makes you feel like you’re
being abducted by benevolent aliens. They unanimously agreed.

The Kona EV resembles its gasoline-powered sibling to a large degree.
However, the grille has been replaced with an interestingly textured bit of
plastic that also houses the vehicle’s charging port. In Electric guise,
Hyundai’s smallest crossover gets a little bit quirkier without falling off
a cliff. I don’t expect everyone to love the styling, but it’s not so wild
that most will find it off-putting, either. It’s busy, not asinine.

Things are a bit more normal on the inside without getting dull. Hyundai
took great pains to give the interior some of the exterior’s personality,
going so far as to do some trim-to-paint color matching. Unfortunately,
while almost everything appears to have been pieced together meticulously,
much of the hardware feels as if it won’t stand up to routine abuse. The
steering wheel is exceptionally disappointing in this regard. While it felt
good in the hand, wrapped in a grippy, rubberized skin, it also felt as if
it might dissolve into mush after a few years of direct sunlight. I don’t
know if it will, and I’m not certain if it’s due to Hyundai’s obsession with
soy-based materials on its green cars or simply because it’s not a quality
item, but I have to mention it.

The cubby in the center console felt particularly flimsy and refused to
close without a carefully planned push. Too hard or soft and the magnet
wouldn’t snag the proper component and the lightweight door would spring
back open. While highly obnoxious, you’ll either eventually get the hang of
it or begin using the massive cubby located beneath the “floating” center
console.

However, there will still be random reminders that you’re sitting in a
budget automobile. Soft touch materials are located where you’d normally
place your arms, but, 

[EVDL] % Just try an Enterprise rental office that has a EV %

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.fleetpoint.org/leasing-2/enterprise-doubles-hybrid-and-electric-vehicles-in-a-year/
Enterprise Doubles Hybrid and Electric Vehicles in a Year
October 18, 2018  Mark Salisbury

[image  
https://www.fleetpoint.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/ECC-Greenwich-01.jpg
]

Enterprise Rent-A-Car has more than doubled the number of alternatively
powered vehicles in its fleet in 2018. So far this year, it has bought more
than 2,000 hybrid and plug-in vehicles, which is twice the number acquired
in all of 2017. The vehicles represent around 40% of the hybrid and plug-in
electric cars made available by manufacturers to all rental fleets this
year.

Enterprise has the country’s largest rental fleet of alternatively powered
vehicles, which it expects to increase rapidly as demand from UK motorists
for hybrid and electric technologies continues to grow.

“Rental businesses such as Enterprise have a central role to play in
improving the sustainability of motoring in the UK,” said Ben Lawson, Vice
President of Strategy for the UK & Ireland at Enterprise Rent-A-Car. “We can
now take advantage of the fact that many more manufacturers are producing
hybrid and electric vehicles in volume and making them available to the
rental sector.

“The composition of our fleet reflects customer demand. We are especially
excited by the growth in hybrids as they make more sustainable motoring
easy. Some of this demand is down to the growth of clean air zones, but
there’s also a wider consumer acceptance of the technologies in
alternatively powered vehicles.”

Enterprise is also one of the first rental companies to introduce electric
vans to commercial vehicle operators looking for more eco-friendly solutions
for inner city use and to support local authority goals on reducing
emissions.

The company is additionally working in partnership with many local
authorities across the country to increase access to hybrid and plug-in
electric technology through car clubs. Enterprise Car Club launched its
first dedicated electric vehicle car club with the Royal Borough of
Greenwich during the summer to provide residents with access to more
environmentally friendly motoring.

The purchase of more than 2,000 hybrid and electric vehicles by Enterprise
so far this year comes from 10 different vehicle manufacturers, including
Tesla, Toyota and Hyundai. This hybrid and electric fleet is now available
across the country to both business and leisure customers at more than 470
Enterprise Rent-A-Car branches and on street at many Enterprise Car Club
locations in more than 30 towns and cities.

Lawson added: “This year, anyone renting from Enterprise is more likely than
ever before to drive away in one of many different hybrid or electric models
from a number of manufacturers. As many people have not tried one before, it
means we can offer a useful ‘test drive’ facility that may influence people
to choose a hybrid or electric when they look to buy their next car.

“Rental is increasingly relevant as a mobility solution as more people turn
to shared or ‘mobility as a service’ options, which integrate various forms
of transport services, including shared and public transit, into a single
mobility service that’s accessible on demand.

“We want to ensure people choosing Enterprise for all or part of their
journey are travelling in vehicles that use the most sustainable and tried
and tested technologies and that can be relied on to get them where they
need to go every time.”
[© fleetpoint.org]
...
https://www.enterprise.com/en/car-rental/vehicles/us/cars/intermediate-electric.html
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=enterprise+electric+car+rental=rent+electric+Enterprise
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=rent+electric+Enterprise
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page=413529=Enterprise+rent=0
search evdl archive on  Enterprise rent


https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/fleet-industry-news/2018/10/18/enterprise-doubles-hybrid-and-electric-vehicles-on-fleet
Enterprise doubles hybrid and electric vehicles on fleet
18/10/2018  “We can now take advantage of the fact that many more
manufacturers are producing hybrid and electric vehicles in volume and
making them available to the ...
https://cdn.fleetnews.co.uk/web/1/root/enterprise-branch.jpg




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars (charging while parked)

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

>> ]
>>>>
>>>> The nuclear furnace at the center of solar system powers almost
>>>> everything on earth. Photosynthesis, wind, and even fossil fuels
>>>> (once decomposed living matter) all derive in some way from the star we
>>>> call the Sun.
>>>>
>>>> So why isn’t it enough to power our cars?
>>>>
>>>> It’s all about energy density: how much energy falls on a surface
>>>> relative to how much is consumed. We can have solar powered e-bikes
>>>> that cover thousands of miles, sailboat drones that cross oceans,
>>>> even ultra-light aircraft that circumnavigate the globe. What do they
>>>> have in common?
>>>> They’re
>>>> all very light, slow, and consume a trickle of electrons. Solar
>>>> panels generate just enough electricity to keep them moving.
>>>>
>>>> For anything weighing thousands of pounds, like a car, the energy
>>>> equation is daunting. A few intrepid carmakers are slapping solar
>>>> panels on their vehicles anyway. Few have gotten very far. The German
>>>> startup Sono Motors is adding 330 integrated solar cells on the roof,
>>>> sides, and rear to give its vehicle a 30-km boost out of a 250-km
>>>> (155-mile) battery range. Meanwhile, Dutch startup behind
>>>> LightyearOne claims its electric car will “charge itself.” Although
>>>> it has yet to unveil a vehicle, potential customers can put down
>>>> deposits for a €119.000 ($157,000) car promising to travel 10,000 to
>>>> 20,000 km per year (6,200 to 12,400 miles) on its solar panels alone.
>>>>
>>>> The Sono Motors Car
>>>>
>>>> Will it work? Don’t bet on it, says Jeremy Michalek, a professor of
>>>> mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University and director of
>>>> its Vehicle Electrification Group.
>>>>
>>>> Quartz asked Michalek to estimate how far the best solar panels could
>>>> propel a typical electric car on the market. He broke down the math
>>>> for us.
>>>>
>>>> Michalek says about 1 kilowatt (kW) of solar energy falls on a square
>>>> meter of the Earth’s surface on a clear day. That’s all the solar
>>>> energy available to collect. For a company like Sono, which says it
>>>> can convert about a quarter of that energy into electricity (although
>>>> that’s very optimistic), a full site of panels might generate roughly
>>>> 8 kilowatt hours of energy per day (a best-case scenario with four
>>>> square meters of solar panels).
>>>>
>>>> Michalek says that’s enough to drive a car like the comparable Nissan
>>>> Leaf about 25 miles. But there are many reasons (clouds, poor panel
>>>> positioning, dirt), this number will rarely be reached. As for
>>>> LightyearOne and its claims that you’ll never need to charge your car
>>>> in the future? The odds are tough. The maximum conversion rate for
>>>> cheap silicon cells to turn sunlight into electricity is just under
>>>> 33%, and more exotic materials that achieve 44% efficiency are far
>>>> too expensive for mass production. Without a revolutionary
>>>> breakthough in solar panel technology, cars that can recharge
>>>> themselves with the sun alone remain fantastical.
>>>>
>>>> Does that mean putting solar panels on cars is always a bad idea?
>>>> Maybe not.
>>>> A sunny day can tack on enough miles to cover the average US commute.
>>>> But Michalek says that’s an expensive way to extend the car’s range.
>>>> Anyone with a charging outlet can get renewable energy from the wall
>>>> for a lot less.
>>>> Sign up for the Quartz Daily Brief email Stay updated about Quartz
>>>> products and events.
>>>> [© qz.com]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +
>>>>
>>>> https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/driverless-car-hype-gives-way-
>>>> e-scooter-mania-among-technorati-n919706
>>>> Driverless car hype gives way to e-scooter mania among technorati
>>>> Oct. 13, 2018  Driverless car hype gives way to e-scooter mania among
>>>> technorati ... In a matter of months, electric scooter startups have
>>>> gone from tech oddity to global ... Millions of dollars in funding
>>>> and billions of dollars in valuations have made scooters the next big
>>>> thing since the last big thing ...
>&g

Re: [EVDL] unfurling panels [was: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars]

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

How about PV paint?

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Oct 22, 2018, at 12:01 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
> 
> Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>> I think what would be interesting, perhaps not so practical, would be to
>> design an EV for aerodynamcis. But, when parked, it would "unfurl" a
>> large collection of solar panels which could be more-or-less aimed.
> 
> Various people have done this as a "one off" experiment. I guess it works, 
> but is a bit bulky and a nuisance to set up and take down.
> 
> There was a guy who added a small wind geneerator to it as well. When parked, 
> he set it up to generate power from the wind even if there was no sun. That 
> works even at night. :-)
> 
> I think it might be easier to integrate the PV cells into the body of the 
> vehicle itself. That's what the solar raycers do. They achieve a highly 
> aerodynamic shape by bonding the individual PV cells directly to the body. 
> This is very time-consuming on an one-off basis. But in a mass production 
> situation, I imagine it wouldn't be much different than binding the cells to 
> any other basically flat surface. You could have a solar hood, or trunk lid, 
> or roof.
> 
> -- 
> Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple,
> reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and
> affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy.
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> ___
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> 

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Re: [EVDL] unfurling panels [was: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars]

[Lee Hart via EV]

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

I think what would be interesting, perhaps not so practical, would be to
design an EV for aerodynamcis. But, when parked, it would "unfurl" a
large collection of solar panels which could be more-or-less aimed.


Various people have done this as a "one off" experiment. I guess it 
works, but is a bit bulky and a nuisance to set up and take down.


There was a guy who added a small wind geneerator to it as well. When 
parked, he set it up to generate power from the wind even if there was 
no sun. That works even at night. :-)


I think it might be easier to integrate the PV cells into the body of 
the vehicle itself. That's what the solar raycers do. They achieve a 
highly aerodynamic shape by bonding the individual PV cells directly to 
the body. This is very time-consuming on an one-off basis. But in a mass 
production situation, I imagine it wouldn't be much different than 
binding the cells to any other basically flat surface. You could have a 
solar hood, or trunk lid, or roof.


--
Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple,
reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and
affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy.
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars (charging while parked)

[paul dove via EV]

rgy density: how much energy falls on a surface
>>>> relative to how much is consumed. We can have solar powered e-bikes
>>>> that cover thousands of miles, sailboat drones that cross oceans,
>>>> even ultra-light aircraft that circumnavigate the globe. What do they
>>>> have in common?
>>>> They’re
>>>> all very light, slow, and consume a trickle of electrons. Solar
>>>> panels generate just enough electricity to keep them moving.
>>>> 
>>>> For anything weighing thousands of pounds, like a car, the energy
>>>> equation is daunting. A few intrepid carmakers are slapping solar
>>>> panels on their vehicles anyway. Few have gotten very far. The German
>>>> startup Sono Motors is adding 330 integrated solar cells on the roof,
>>>> sides, and rear to give its vehicle a 30-km boost out of a 250-km
>>>> (155-mile) battery range. Meanwhile, Dutch startup behind
>>>> LightyearOne claims its electric car will “charge itself.” Although
>>>> it has yet to unveil a vehicle, potential customers can put down
>>>> deposits for a €119.000 ($157,000) car promising to travel 10,000 to
>>>> 20,000 km per year (6,200 to 12,400 miles) on its solar panels alone.
>>>> 
>>>> The Sono Motors Car
>>>> 
>>>> Will it work? Don’t bet on it, says Jeremy Michalek, a professor of
>>>> mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University and director of
>>>> its Vehicle Electrification Group.
>>>> 
>>>> Quartz asked Michalek to estimate how far the best solar panels could
>>>> propel a typical electric car on the market. He broke down the math
>>>> for us.
>>>> 
>>>> Michalek says about 1 kilowatt (kW) of solar energy falls on a square
>>>> meter of the Earth’s surface on a clear day. That’s all the solar
>>>> energy available to collect. For a company like Sono, which says it
>>>> can convert about a quarter of that energy into electricity (although
>>>> that’s very optimistic), a full site of panels might generate roughly
>>>> 8 kilowatt hours of energy per day (a best-case scenario with four
>>>> square meters of solar panels).
>>>> 
>>>> Michalek says that’s enough to drive a car like the comparable Nissan
>>>> Leaf about 25 miles. But there are many reasons (clouds, poor panel
>>>> positioning, dirt), this number will rarely be reached. As for
>>>> LightyearOne and its claims that you’ll never need to charge your car
>>>> in the future? The odds are tough. The maximum conversion rate for
>>>> cheap silicon cells to turn sunlight into electricity is just under
>>>> 33%, and more exotic materials that achieve 44% efficiency are far
>>>> too expensive for mass production. Without a revolutionary
>>>> breakthough in solar panel technology, cars that can recharge
>>>> themselves with the sun alone remain fantastical.
>>>> 
>>>> Does that mean putting solar panels on cars is always a bad idea?
>>>> Maybe not.
>>>> A sunny day can tack on enough miles to cover the average US commute.
>>>> But Michalek says that’s an expensive way to extend the car’s range.
>>>> Anyone with a charging outlet can get renewable energy from the wall
>>>> for a lot less.
>>>> Sign up for the Quartz Daily Brief email Stay updated about Quartz
>>>> products and events.
>>>> [© qz.com]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> +
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/driverless-car-hype-gives-way-
>>>> e-scooter-mania-among-technorati-n919706
>>>> Driverless car hype gives way to e-scooter mania among technorati
>>>> Oct. 13, 2018  Driverless car hype gives way to e-scooter mania among
>>>> technorati ... In a matter of months, electric scooter startups have
>>>> gone from tech oddity to global ... Millions of dollars in funding
>>>> and billions of dollars in valuations have made scooters the next big
>>>> thing since the last big thing ...
>>>> 
>>>> https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2018_28/2491731/180709-bird-sc
>>>> ooter-san-francisco-njs-1541_0d7cd3431408077aac647d098c7ba8a7.fit-124
>>>> 0w.jpg
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>>>>  http://evdl.org/archive/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from:
>>>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>>>> ___
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>>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Slapping solar panels on an RV

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

in the future? The odds are tough. The maximum conversion
>>>> rate for cheap silicon cells to turn sunlight into electricity is
>>>> just under 33%, and more exotic materials that achieve 44%
>>>> efficiency are far too expensive for mass production. Without a
>>>> revolutionary breakthough in solar panel technology, cars that can
>>>> recharge themselves with the sun alone remain fantastical.
>>>>
>>>> Does that mean putting solar panels on cars is always a bad idea?
>>>> Maybe not.
>>>> A sunny day can tack on enough miles to cover the average US commute.
>>>> But Michalek says that’s an expensive way to extend the car’s range.
>>>> Anyone with a charging outlet can get renewable energy from the
>>>> wall for a lot less.
>>>> Sign up for the Quartz Daily Brief email Stay updated about Quartz
>>>> products and events.
>>>> [© qz.com]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +
>>>>
>>>> https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/driverless-car-hype-gives-wa
>>>> y-
>>>> e-scooter-mania-among-technorati-n919706
>>>> Driverless car hype gives way to e-scooter mania among technorati
>>>> Oct. 13, 2018  Driverless car hype gives way to e-scooter mania
>>>> among technorati ... In a matter of months, electric scooter
>>>> startups have gone from tech oddity to global ... Millions of
>>>> dollars in funding and billions of dollars in valuations have made
>>>> scooters the next big thing since the last big thing ...
>>>>
>>>> https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2018_28/2491731/180709-bird-
>>>> sc
>>>> ooter-san-francisco-njs-1541_0d7cd3431408077aac647d098c7ba8a7.fit-1
>>>> 24
>>>> 0w.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>>>>http://evdl.org/archive/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from:
>>>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>>>> ___
>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>>>
>>>>
>

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars (charging while parked)

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

ling 200 miles on accumulated solar
>>> energy, after, say, a week of 40 miles/day travel.  And given that 5
>>> months/year we average over 60% of the July values we can travel about
>>> 60 miles/day just on stored sunlight from the car.  And the 5
>>> passenger Stella Vie is just as efficient.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:09 AM brucedp5 via EV 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://qz.com/1423288/why-dont-we-have-solar-powered-cars-physics/
>>>> The physics of why we don’t have solar-powered cars October 15, 2018
>>>> Michael J. Coren
>>>>
>>>> [image
>>>> https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/image1-e1539387897807.p
>>>> ng
>>>> The Sono Motors Car
>>>> ]
>>>>
>>>> The nuclear furnace at the center of solar system powers almost
>>>> everything on earth. Photosynthesis, wind, and even fossil fuels
>>>> (once decomposed living matter) all derive in some way from the star we
>>>> call the Sun.
>>>>
>>>> So why isn’t it enough to power our cars?
>>>>
>>>> It’s all about energy density: how much energy falls on a surface
>>>> relative to how much is consumed. We can have solar powered e-bikes
>>>> that cover thousands of miles, sailboat drones that cross oceans,
>>>> even ultra-light aircraft that circumnavigate the globe. What do they
>>>> have in common?
>>>> They’re
>>>> all very light, slow, and consume a trickle of electrons. Solar
>>>> panels generate just enough electricity to keep them moving.
>>>>
>>>> For anything weighing thousands of pounds, like a car, the energy
>>>> equation is daunting. A few intrepid carmakers are slapping solar
>>>> panels on their vehicles anyway. Few have gotten very far. The German
>>>> startup Sono Motors is adding 330 integrated solar cells on the roof,
>>>> sides, and rear to give its vehicle a 30-km boost out of a 250-km
>>>> (155-mile) battery range. Meanwhile, Dutch startup behind
>>>> LightyearOne claims its electric car will “charge itself.” Although
>>>> it has yet to unveil a vehicle, potential customers can put down
>>>> deposits for a €119.000 ($157,000) car promising to travel 10,000 to
>>>> 20,000 km per year (6,200 to 12,400 miles) on its solar panels alone.
>>>>
>>>> The Sono Motors Car
>>>>
>>>> Will it work? Don’t bet on it, says Jeremy Michalek, a professor of
>>>> mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University and director of
>>>> its Vehicle Electrification Group.
>>>>
>>>> Quartz asked Michalek to estimate how far the best solar panels could
>>>> propel a typical electric car on the market. He broke down the math
>>>> for us.
>>>>
>>>> Michalek says about 1 kilowatt (kW) of solar energy falls on a square
>>>> meter of the Earth’s surface on a clear day. That’s all the solar
>>>> energy available to collect. For a company like Sono, which says it
>>>> can convert about a quarter of that energy into electricity (although
>>>> that’s very optimistic), a full site of panels might generate roughly
>>>> 8 kilowatt hours of energy per day (a best-case scenario with four
>>>> square meters of solar panels).
>>>>
>>>> Michalek says that’s enough to drive a car like the comparable Nissan
>>>> Leaf about 25 miles. But there are many reasons (clouds, poor panel
>>>> positioning, dirt), this number will rarely be reached. As for
>>>> LightyearOne and its claims that you’ll never need to charge your car
>>>> in the future? The odds are tough. The maximum conversion rate for
>>>> cheap silicon cells to turn sunlight into electricity is just under
>>>> 33%, and more exotic materials that achieve 44% efficiency are far
>>>> too expensive for mass production. Without a revolutionary
>>>> breakthough in solar panel technology, cars that can recharge
>>>> themselves with the sun alone remain fantastical.
>>>>
>>>> Does that mean putting solar panels on cars is always a bad idea?
>>>> Maybe not.
>>>> A sunny day can tack on enough miles to cover the average US commute.
>>>> But Michalek says that’s an expensive way to extend the car’s range.
>>>> Anyone with a charging outlet can get renewable energy from the wall
>>>> for a lot less.

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars (charging while parked)

[Peter C. Thompson via EV]

This actually makes sense - especially if you have lots of batteries in 
the RV as well. I think it would also be possible to use the EV as the 
Large Battery for your RV, but Tesla may not allow such a modification.


Cheers, Peter

On 10/22/18 6:47 AM, Bobby Keeland via EV wrote:

My wife and I are on the waiting list for a 220 mile range Model 3. We
don't need the 310 mile range or the high performance.

When we travel it is usually by motorhome. I've thought about towing the EV
on a trailer that is covered with solar panels. A recharge while boon
docking would be no problem.
BobK

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 8:41 AM Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:


ALL EV's are predominantly charged while parked.  Solar panels on EV's are
not for propulsion power but for battery charging during the 8 to 16 hour
solar day while parked in the sun, not just the 30 minutes the car is in
use.  This is for those without a dedicated charger at home.

Bob


-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Alan Arrison via EV
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 7:26 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Alan Arrison 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars

The numbers don't add up for solar panels on automobiles, never have, never
will.

This has been proven time and time again.

There is no way it gets even 20 miles per kWh under anything but perfect
conditions and slow speeds.

And the energy from the panels again is under perfect conditions.

It is so light because it has almost no crash protection.

Al



On 10/21/2018 3:09 PM, Larry Gales via EV wrote:

When I look at the Stella Lux and Stella Vie, I get very different
results from the negative views of solar powered cars.  I start with
the assumption that the Dutch students who have won most of the solar
car records are not actually lying.  So, the specs for the 4 passenger
Stella Lux include these:



Length

178 inches

Width

69 inches

Height

44 inches

Weight

826 pounds

Battery Capacity

15 kWh

Motor Efficiency

97 percent

Range on sunny day (Netherlands)

621 miles

Range on sunny day (Australia)

683 miles

Range at night (on battery)

403 miles

Top Speed

77 mph



So, if the range at night is 403 miles and the battery is 15 kWh, that
translates to 26.8 miles/kWh.  Let us suppose that is under ideal
conditions, and that a more realistic value is 20 miles/kWh.  The
solar PV array is 1.5 kW, so a more realistic value under real world
conditions is
0.75 kW.  In Seattle, where I live, which has about the worst solar
potential in the USA, the average solar intensity in July is 6.3 sun
hours.
So, (0.75 * 6.3 * 20) = 94.5 miles.  If we usually travel only 40
miles/day, I could easily see traveling 200 miles on accumulated solar
energy, after, say, a week of 40 miles/day travel.  And given that 5
months/year we average over 60% of the July values we can travel about
60 miles/day just on stored sunlight from the car.  And the 5
passenger Stella Vie is just as efficient.

On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:09 AM brucedp5 via EV 
wrote:


https://qz.com/1423288/why-dont-we-have-solar-powered-cars-physics/
The physics of why we don’t have solar-powered cars October 15, 2018
Michael J. Coren

[image
https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/image1-e1539387897807.p
ng
The Sono Motors Car
]

The nuclear furnace at the center of solar system powers almost
everything on earth. Photosynthesis, wind, and even fossil fuels
(once decomposed living matter) all derive in some way from the star we
call the Sun.

So why isn’t it enough to power our cars?

It’s all about energy density: how much energy falls on a surface
relative to how much is consumed. We can have solar powered e-bikes
that cover thousands of miles, sailboat drones that cross oceans,
even ultra-light aircraft that circumnavigate the globe. What do they
have in common?
They’re
all very light, slow, and consume a trickle of electrons. Solar
panels generate just enough electricity to keep them moving.

For anything weighing thousands of pounds, like a car, the energy
equation is daunting. A few intrepid carmakers are slapping solar
panels on their vehicles anyway. Few have gotten very far. The German
startup Sono Motors is adding 330 integrated solar cells on the roof,
sides, and rear to give its vehicle a 30-km boost out of a 250-km
(155-mile) battery range. Meanwhile, Dutch startup behind
LightyearOne claims its electric car will “charge itself.” Although
it has yet to unveil a vehicle, potential customers can put down
deposits for a €119.000 ($157,000) car promising to travel 10,000 to
20,000 km per year (6,200 to 12,400 miles) on its solar panels alone.

The Sono Motors Car

Will it work? Don’t bet on it, says Jeremy Michalek, a professor of
mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University and director of
its Vehicle Electrification Group.

Quartz asked Michalek to estimate how far the best solar panels could
propel a typical electric car on the market. He broke down the math
for us.

Michalek says 

[EVDL] unfurling panels [was: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars]

[Peri Hartman via EV]

ey’re
>> all very light, slow, and consume a trickle of electrons. Solar
>> panels generate just enough electricity to keep them moving.
>>
>> For anything weighing thousands of pounds, like a car, the energy
>> equation is daunting. A few intrepid carmakers are slapping solar
>> panels on their vehicles anyway. Few have gotten very far. The 
German
>> startup Sono Motors is adding 330 integrated solar cells on the 
roof,

>> sides, and rear to give its vehicle a 30-km boost out of a 250-km
>> (155-mile) battery range. Meanwhile, Dutch startup behind
>> LightyearOne claims its electric car will “charge itself.” Although
>> it has yet to unveil a vehicle, potential customers can put down
>> deposits for a €119.000 ($157,000) car promising to travel 10,000 
to
>> 20,000 km per year (6,200 to 12,400 miles) on its solar panels 
alone.

>>
>> The Sono Motors Car
>>
>> Will it work? Don’t bet on it, says Jeremy Michalek, a professor of
>> mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University and director 
of

>> its Vehicle Electrification Group.
>>
>> Quartz asked Michalek to estimate how far the best solar panels 
could

>> propel a typical electric car on the market. He broke down the math
>> for us.
>>
>> Michalek says about 1 kilowatt (kW) of solar energy falls on a 
square

>> meter of the Earth’s surface on a clear day. That’s all the solar
>> energy available to collect. For a company like Sono, which says it
>> can convert about a quarter of that energy into electricity 
(although
>> that’s very optimistic), a full site of panels might generate 
roughly

>> 8 kilowatt hours of energy per day (a best-case scenario with four
>> square meters of solar panels).
>>
>> Michalek says that’s enough to drive a car like the comparable 
Nissan

>> Leaf about 25 miles. But there are many reasons (clouds, poor panel
>> positioning, dirt), this number will rarely be reached. As for
>> LightyearOne and its claims that you’ll never need to charge your 
car

>> in the future? The odds are tough. The maximum conversion rate for
>> cheap silicon cells to turn sunlight into electricity is just under
>> 33%, and more exotic materials that achieve 44% efficiency are far
>> too expensive for mass production. Without a revolutionary
>> breakthough in solar panel technology, cars that can recharge
>> themselves with the sun alone remain fantastical.
>>
>> Does that mean putting solar panels on cars is always a bad idea?
>> Maybe not.
>> A sunny day can tack on enough miles to cover the average US 
commute.
>> But Michalek says that’s an expensive way to extend the car’s 
range.
>> Anyone with a charging outlet can get renewable energy from the 
wall

>> for a lot less.
>> Sign up for the Quartz Daily Brief email Stay updated about Quartz
>> products and events.
>> [© qz.com]
>>
>>
>> +
>>
>> 
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/driverless-car-hype-gives-way-

>> e-scooter-mania-among-technorati-n919706
>> Driverless car hype gives way to e-scooter mania among technorati
>> Oct. 13, 2018  Driverless car hype gives way to e-scooter mania 
among
>> technorati ... In a matter of months, electric scooter startups 
have

>> gone from tech oddity to global ... Millions of dollars in funding
>> and billions of dollars in valuations have made scooters the next 
big

>> thing since the last big thing ...
>>
>> 
https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2018_28/2491731/180709-bird-sc
>> 
ooter-san-francisco-njs-1541_0d7cd3431408077aac647d098c7ba8a7.fit-124

>> 0w.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>>   http://evdl.org/archive/
>>
>>
>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>>
>> --
>> Sent from:
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars (charging while parked)

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

kers are slapping solar
> >> panels on their vehicles anyway. Few have gotten very far. The German
> >> startup Sono Motors is adding 330 integrated solar cells on the roof,
> >> sides, and rear to give its vehicle a 30-km boost out of a 250-km
> >> (155-mile) battery range. Meanwhile, Dutch startup behind
> >> LightyearOne claims its electric car will “charge itself.” Although
> >> it has yet to unveil a vehicle, potential customers can put down
> >> deposits for a €119.000 ($157,000) car promising to travel 10,000 to
> >> 20,000 km per year (6,200 to 12,400 miles) on its solar panels alone.
> >>
> >> The Sono Motors Car
> >>
> >> Will it work? Don’t bet on it, says Jeremy Michalek, a professor of
> >> mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University and director of
> >> its Vehicle Electrification Group.
> >>
> >> Quartz asked Michalek to estimate how far the best solar panels could
> >> propel a typical electric car on the market. He broke down the math
> >> for us.
> >>
> >> Michalek says about 1 kilowatt (kW) of solar energy falls on a square
> >> meter of the Earth’s surface on a clear day. That’s all the solar
> >> energy available to collect. For a company like Sono, which says it
> >> can convert about a quarter of that energy into electricity (although
> >> that’s very optimistic), a full site of panels might generate roughly
> >> 8 kilowatt hours of energy per day (a best-case scenario with four
> >> square meters of solar panels).
> >>
> >> Michalek says that’s enough to drive a car like the comparable Nissan
> >> Leaf about 25 miles. But there are many reasons (clouds, poor panel
> >> positioning, dirt), this number will rarely be reached. As for
> >> LightyearOne and its claims that you’ll never need to charge your car
> >> in the future? The odds are tough. The maximum conversion rate for
> >> cheap silicon cells to turn sunlight into electricity is just under
> >> 33%, and more exotic materials that achieve 44% efficiency are far
> >> too expensive for mass production. Without a revolutionary
> >> breakthough in solar panel technology, cars that can recharge
> >> themselves with the sun alone remain fantastical.
> >>
> >> Does that mean putting solar panels on cars is always a bad idea?
> >> Maybe not.
> >> A sunny day can tack on enough miles to cover the average US commute.
> >> But Michalek says that’s an expensive way to extend the car’s range.
> >> Anyone with a charging outlet can get renewable energy from the wall
> >> for a lot less.
> >> Sign up for the Quartz Daily Brief email Stay updated about Quartz
> >> products and events.
> >> [© qz.com]
> >>
> >>
> >> +
> >>
> >> https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/driverless-car-hype-gives-way-
> >> e-scooter-mania-among-technorati-n919706
> >> Driverless car hype gives way to e-scooter mania among technorati
> >> Oct. 13, 2018  Driverless car hype gives way to e-scooter mania among
> >> technorati ... In a matter of months, electric scooter startups have
> >> gone from tech oddity to global ... Millions of dollars in funding
> >> and billions of dollars in valuations have made scooters the next big
> >> thing since the last big thing ...
> >>
> >> https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2018_28/2491731/180709-bird-sc
> >> ooter-san-francisco-njs-1541_0d7cd3431408077aac647d098c7ba8a7.fit-124
> >> 0w.jpg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> >>   http://evdl.org/archive/
> >>
> >>
> >> {brucedp.neocities.org}
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sent from:
> >> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
> >> ___
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >>
> >>
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars (charging while parked)

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

ALL EV's are predominantly charged while parked.  Solar panels on EV's are
not for propulsion power but for battery charging during the 8 to 16 hour
solar day while parked in the sun, not just the 30 minutes the car is in
use.  This is for those without a dedicated charger at home.

Bob


-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Alan Arrison via EV
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 7:26 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Alan Arrison 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars

The numbers don't add up for solar panels on automobiles, never have, never
will.

This has been proven time and time again.

There is no way it gets even 20 miles per kWh under anything but perfect
conditions and slow speeds.

And the energy from the panels again is under perfect conditions.

It is so light because it has almost no crash protection.

Al



On 10/21/2018 3:09 PM, Larry Gales via EV wrote:
> When I look at the Stella Lux and Stella Vie, I get very different
> results from the negative views of solar powered cars.  I start with
> the assumption that the Dutch students who have won most of the solar
> car records are not actually lying.  So, the specs for the 4 passenger
> Stella Lux include these:
>
>
>
> Length
>
> 178 inches
>
> Width
>
> 69 inches
>
> Height
>
> 44 inches
>
> Weight
>
> 826 pounds
>
> Battery Capacity
>
> 15 kWh
>
> Motor Efficiency
>
> 97 percent
>
> Range on sunny day (Netherlands)
>
> 621 miles
>
> Range on sunny day (Australia)
>
> 683 miles
>
> Range at night (on battery)
>
> 403 miles
>
> Top Speed
>
> 77 mph
>
>
>
> So, if the range at night is 403 miles and the battery is 15 kWh, that
> translates to 26.8 miles/kWh.  Let us suppose that is under ideal
> conditions, and that a more realistic value is 20 miles/kWh.  The
> solar PV array is 1.5 kW, so a more realistic value under real world
> conditions is
> 0.75 kW.  In Seattle, where I live, which has about the worst solar
> potential in the USA, the average solar intensity in July is 6.3 sun
> hours.
> So, (0.75 * 6.3 * 20) = 94.5 miles.  If we usually travel only 40
> miles/day, I could easily see traveling 200 miles on accumulated solar
> energy, after, say, a week of 40 miles/day travel.  And given that 5
> months/year we average over 60% of the July values we can travel about
> 60 miles/day just on stored sunlight from the car.  And the 5
> passenger Stella Vie is just as efficient.
>
> On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:09 AM brucedp5 via EV 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://qz.com/1423288/why-dont-we-have-solar-powered-cars-physics/
>> The physics of why we don’t have solar-powered cars October 15, 2018
>> Michael J. Coren
>>
>> [image
>> https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/image1-e1539387897807.p
>> ng
>> The Sono Motors Car
>> ]
>>
>> The nuclear furnace at the center of solar system powers almost
>> everything on earth. Photosynthesis, wind, and even fossil fuels
>> (once decomposed living matter) all derive in some way from the star we
>> call the Sun.
>>
>> So why isn’t it enough to power our cars?
>>
>> It’s all about energy density: how much energy falls on a surface
>> relative to how much is consumed. We can have solar powered e-bikes
>> that cover thousands of miles, sailboat drones that cross oceans,
>> even ultra-light aircraft that circumnavigate the globe. What do they
>> have in common?
>> They’re
>> all very light, slow, and consume a trickle of electrons. Solar
>> panels generate just enough electricity to keep them moving.
>>
>> For anything weighing thousands of pounds, like a car, the energy
>> equation is daunting. A few intrepid carmakers are slapping solar
>> panels on their vehicles anyway. Few have gotten very far. The German
>> startup Sono Motors is adding 330 integrated solar cells on the roof,
>> sides, and rear to give its vehicle a 30-km boost out of a 250-km
>> (155-mile) battery range. Meanwhile, Dutch startup behind
>> LightyearOne claims its electric car will “charge itself.” Although
>> it has yet to unveil a vehicle, potential customers can put down
>> deposits for a €119.000 ($157,000) car promising to travel 10,000 to
>> 20,000 km per year (6,200 to 12,400 miles) on its solar panels alone.
>>
>> The Sono Motors Car
>>
>> Will it work? Don’t bet on it, says Jeremy Michalek, a professor of
>> mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University and director of
>> its Vehicle Electrification Group.
>>
>> Quartz asked Michalek to estimate how far the best solar panels could
>> propel a typical electric car on the market. He broke down the math
>> for us.
>>
>> Michalek says about 1 kilowatt (kW) of solar energy falls on a square
>> meter of the Earth’s surface on a clear day. That’s all the solar
>> energy available to collect. For a company like Sono, which says it
>> can convert about a quarter of that energy into electricity (although
>> that’s very optimistic), a full site of panels might generate roughly
>> 8 kilowatt hours of energy per day (a best-case scenario with four