Re: [EVDL] A couple of Leaf observations. With more added on.

[Roland via EV]

   
According to my Nissan data sheet I received when Nissan ship the modules to 
me, A maximum cell voltage of 4.2 volts require a charger voltage set to 4.5 
volts.  It was recommended to set the charge voltage to 4.16 volts for a cell 
voltage of 4.00 volts.  This will give a very long battery life for my type of 
driving of 2 to 4 miles a day.   

 

It was also recommended to not discharge the cells below 3.65 volts which is 
one half of the ampere hour capacity and watt hour energy. 

 

According to my Orion MSN Manual,  the electrolyte starts to degrade above 4.0 
volts.  

 

It also best to install more cells in parallel to reduce the discharge and 
charge rate per cell.   I connect six 33.3 ah cells in parallel and than series 
the cell groups for 200 ah.

 

Charging with a Manzanito Micro 50 amp charger set for Li Poly cells which is 
on a 60 amp service circuit breaker, it charges the battery pack at 48 amps or 
48 A/6 cells = 8 amps maximum per cell.  

 

The discharge rate is also low.  My Café Electric motor controller provides a 
constant 200 motor ampere while the battery pack provides a 3 to 1 factor or 
about  66.6 battery amperes.   Each cell load is 66.6/6 = 11.1 amps.

 

Driving two miles for 1.5 miles up hill and .5 mile down hill using battery 
power, because the hills are very rough, the charger only takes less than 10 
seconds to get to the maximum set voltage, it takes about 30 minutes to charge 
at this lower rate of 11.1 ampere per cell or 48 battery amperes using about 
5.0 ampere hour. 

 

Roland  

 

  

 

 


- Original Message - 

From: Lee Hart via EV<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 

To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 

Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2016 11:50 AM

Subject: Re: [EVDL] A couple of Leaf observations. With more added on.



Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>> I noticed Lee Hart saying he doesn't charge to 100%.  Why.

Simple. I don't need the range. So there's no need to charge it to 100% 
or run it dead.

And, there are reasons *not* to do it. My experience (with all types of 
batteries) has been that they last longer if they are not overcharged, 
and not deeply discharged.

There is no sudden "cliff", where 99% is fine and 101% is destroyed. 
It's a gradual thing. The higher the state of charge, the shorter the 
life. Likewise on the discharge side. The deeper the discharge, the 
shorter the life. The exact relationship varies between batteries, and 
is unknown for new unproven designs.

Thos True via EV wrote:
> ...a Nissan engineer told me that the BMS on board the Leaf was
> designed to limit both charging and discharging to protect the
> integrity of the battery pack...

I'm sure that Nissan has included a safety factor in what their 
instrumentation says is 100% and 0% state of charge. I also think Nissan 
believes what they are saying and doing is "right".

But, I also believe that the auto companies have very little real-world 
experience with EVs and batteries. Nissan's customers already got burned 
by shortened battery life and range due in hot climates on the earlier 
Leafs. I know that their instrumentation is poor, and their idea of a 
"battery heater" is woefully inadequate for Minnesota weather.

So, I will take the auto companies' advice with a grain of salt. After 
all, who will have to pay if their advice turns out to be wrong?  Not them!
-- 
Knowledge is better than belief. Belief is when someone else does
your thinking. -- anonymous
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] A couple of Leaf observations. With more added on.

[Lee Hart via EV]

Lawrence Rhodes wrote:

I noticed Lee Hart saying he doesn't charge to 100%.  Why.


Simple. I don't need the range. So there's no need to charge it to 100% 
or run it dead.


And, there are reasons *not* to do it. My experience (with all types of 
batteries) has been that they last longer if they are not overcharged, 
and not deeply discharged.


There is no sudden "cliff", where 99% is fine and 101% is destroyed. 
It's a gradual thing. The higher the state of charge, the shorter the 
life. Likewise on the discharge side. The deeper the discharge, the 
shorter the life. The exact relationship varies between batteries, and 
is unknown for new unproven designs.


Thos True via EV wrote:

...a Nissan engineer told me that the BMS on board the Leaf was
designed to limit both charging and discharging to protect the
integrity of the battery pack...


I'm sure that Nissan has included a safety factor in what their 
instrumentation says is 100% and 0% state of charge. I also think Nissan 
believes what they are saying and doing is "right".


But, I also believe that the auto companies have very little real-world 
experience with EVs and batteries. Nissan's customers already got burned 
by shortened battery life and range due in hot climates on the earlier 
Leafs. I know that their instrumentation is poor, and their idea of a 
"battery heater" is woefully inadequate for Minnesota weather.


So, I will take the auto companies' advice with a grain of salt. After 
all, who will have to pay if their advice turns out to be wrong?  Not them!

--
Knowledge is better than belief. Belief is when someone else does
your thinking.  -- anonymous
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] A couple of Leaf observations. With more added on.

[Cruisin via EV]

Buy a Tesla and you can control the % of charge as well as Amperage. Used
from Tesla with a 5 year warranty for as little as $50k. That's a real EV.

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View this message in context: 
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Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
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Re: [EVDL] A couple of Leaf observations.

[Lee Hart via EV]

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

Lawrence, you get amazing range. I wish I could get range like that.
Although I have to admit it's rare that I take it further than about 10
miles on the freeway. The majority is on hilly, stop & go city streets
where I get closer to 2.5 to 3.5 miles / kwh. Out of curiosity, what
metrics do you get in stop & go?


I have a 2013 Leaf, and routinely get 4-5 miles/kwh on the dashboard 
'guess gauge'. In the summer, it's been as high as 5.2 miles/kwh for a 
charge cycle (40-50 miles total before recharging). In winter, it drops 
to around 4 miles/kwh. I normally charge on 120vac, and only to 80%.


But, we live in a small town (Sartell MN). There are no expressways, 
mountains or even significant hills, so this is all low speed driving. 
I've been driving EVs for years, and so instinctively "feather-foot" it. 
No hard acceleration, drive at or below the posted speed limit, coast 
rather than brake, etc. (No, I'm not giving EVs a bad name by driving 
this way, because in a small town there isn't anyone behind me).


We've never pushed it to the limits of its range. The worst "stress 
test" was once when my son drove it to work (40 miles round trip), and 
got low battery warnings coming back home. But, he didn't charge it to 
100% before leaving, took the expressway to the next town (probably at 
10mph over the limit), and it was -10 deg.F so he ran the heater full 
blast. He didn't look at the state of charge before charging.


--
Knowledge is better than belief. Belief is when someone else does
your thinking.  -- anonymous
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] A couple of Leaf observations. With more added on.

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

I noticed Lee Hart saying he doesn't charge to 100%.  Why.  Nissan in their 
wisdom doesn't allow us to charge to 100%.  So if you don't you are more like 
at 70%.  I now have Leaf Spy and even on slow level two charge can't get more 
than 97.3%.  A fast charge in 45 minutes might get as high as 93%.  It seems 
you can't get 100% charge in any case.  So I top off without worry. I try to 
avoid low charge as much as possible.    Lawrence Rhodes
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