Re: Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible.
I think no one in their right minds would dispute the existence of computer *intelligence*. Even in the 1950s, computers could do some things that required the exercise of intelligence, and they've only got better. Maybe I should have said even in the 1890s, or whenever the Analytical Engine was proposed, because that WOULD have shown intelligence had it been built. Surely the real argument is about consciousness? (Assuming it isn't some form of "user interface" or illusion, as per Dennett etc). On 27 November 2013 18:01, John Clark wrote: > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Gabriel Bodeen > wrote: > > > So in the event that somebody actually does make AI, please recall this >> and consider your [ Roger B Clough's] philosophical system to have been >> falsified. >> > > It's already been falsified. At one time everybody on the planet agreed > that solving equations, playing a great game of chess, being a superb > research librarian, or winning at Jeopardy required intelligence; but when > computers got better at those tasks than humans suddenly they didn't > require intelligence anymore. It seems that the definition of > "intelligence" is whatever computers still aren't good at, and thus the > number of tasks that require "intelligence" shrinks rather dramatically > every year. Right now image recognition still requires intelligence and is > a key to our humanity, but in 10 years, possibly 5, that will all change > and Roger B Clough will be saying that image recognition has absolutely > nothing to do with intelligence. > > John K Clark > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible.
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Gabriel Bodeen wrote: > So in the event that somebody actually does make AI, please recall this > and consider your [ Roger B Clough's] philosophical system to have been > falsified. > It's already been falsified. At one time everybody on the planet agreed that solving equations, playing a great game of chess, being a superb research librarian, or winning at Jeopardy required intelligence; but when computers got better at those tasks than humans suddenly they didn't require intelligence anymore. It seems that the definition of "intelligence" is whatever computers still aren't good at, and thus the number of tasks that require "intelligence" shrinks rather dramatically every year. Right now image recognition still requires intelligence and is a key to our humanity, but in 10 years, possibly 5, that will all change and Roger B Clough will be saying that image recognition has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible.
On 27 November 2013 06:38, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 7:17 AM, Roger Clough wrote: > > > Computers cannot simulate human activities or experiences or >> consciousness because they have to deal in code, which consists of >> instructions or descriptions. Computers cannot deal in knowledge by >> experience, so they cannot experience, >> > produce experiences, or understand experiences. >> > > Biological brains cannot simulate computer activities or experiences or > consciousness because they have to deal in code which does NOT even > consists of instructions or descriptions but are just signals sent by one > neuron that change the activity of another neuron. Biological brains cannot > deal in knowledge by experience, so they cannot experience, produce > experiences, or understand experiences. > > Put these together and you have the conclusion of comp and the MGA - that conciousness is generated elsewhere, specifically within arithmetic. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible.
So in the event that somebody actually does make AI, please recall this and consider your philosophical system to have been falsified. -Gabe On Monday, November 25, 2013 6:17:15 AM UTC-6, Roger Clough wrote: > > Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible. > > Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] > See my Leibniz site at > http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible.
On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 7:17 AM, Roger Clough wrote: > computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible. > I believe that maintaining that computers can't be conscious is wrong but I can't prove it. But maintaining that a computer can't be intelligent is utterly ridiculous and I can prove it. > Example: Computer code. Artificial intelligence. Third person singular. > Example: Neural signals. Biological intelligence. Third person singular. > Example: Human perception. Human intelligence. First person singular. > Example: Computer perception. Computer intelligence. First person singular. > Computers cannot simulate human activities or experiences or > consciousness because they have to deal in code, which consists of > instructions or descriptions. Computers cannot deal in knowledge by > experience, so they cannot experience, > produce experiences, or understand experiences. > Biological brains cannot simulate computer activities or experiences or consciousness because they have to deal in code which does NOT even consists of instructions or descriptions but are just signals sent by one neuron that change the activity of another neuron. Biological brains cannot deal in knowledge by experience, so they cannot experience, produce experiences, or understand experiences. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible.
On 26 November 2013 01:17, Roger Clough wrote: > Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible. > > Acccording to Bertrand Russell, there are two types of knowledge: > > a) Knowledge by description. It is common knowledge that Obama is president. > > Example: Computer code. Artificial intelligence. Third person singular. > > b) Knowledge by experience. You have met Obama. > Example: Human perception. Human intelligence. First person singular. > > Computers cannot simulate human activities or experiences > or consciousness because they have to deal in code, which > consists of instructions or descriptions. Computers cannot > deal in knowledge by experience, so they cannot experience, > produce experiences, or understand experiences. > > Thus computer intelligence and artificial intelligence are impossible. > > Computers deal in code (third person singular). Only people and other > living entities can deal in experiences or be conscious (first person > singular.) > > So only humans and other living entities can be conscious or be truly > intelligent. > > Thus artificial intelligence is impossible > > This is the "Chinese Room argument", thinly disguised. It basically says there is / are some special properties that organisms have that computers can't have. Or to put it another way, it says that consciousness is not a form of computation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible.
On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Roger Clough wrote: > Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible. > > Acccording to Bertrand Russell, there are two types of knowledge: > > a) Knowledge by description. It is common knowledge that Obama is president. > Example: Computer code. Artificial intelligence. Third person singular. > > b) Knowledge by experience. You have met Obama. > Example: Human perception. Human intelligence. First person singular. > > Computers cannot simulate human activities or experiences > or consciousness because they have to deal in code, which > consists of instructions or descriptions. Consider this: Humans cannot simulate human activities or experiences or consciousness because they have to deal in DNA, which consists of instructions or descriptions. Why can't the machine running the code have an inner experience, the same way that we, the DNA-code-running-machines do? Telmo. > Computers cannot > deal in knowledge by experience, so they cannot experience, > produce experiences, or understand experiences. > > Thus computer intelligence and artificial intelligence are impossible. > > Computers deal in code (third person singular). Only people and other > living entities can deal in experiences or be conscious (first person > singular.) > So only humans and other living entities can be conscious or be truly > intelligent. > Thus artificial intelligence is impossible > > > > Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] > See my Leibniz site at > http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible.
Why computer consciousness and artificial intelligence are impossible. Acccording to Bertrand Russell, there are two types of knowledge: a) Knowledge by description. It is common knowledge that Obama is president. Example: Computer code. Artificial intelligence. Third person singular. b) Knowledge by experience. You have met Obama. Example: Human perception. Human intelligence. First person singular. Computers cannot simulate human activities or experiences or consciousness because they have to deal in code, which consists of instructions or descriptions. Computers cannot deal in knowledge by experience, so they cannot experience, produce experiences, or understand experiences. Thus computer intelligence and artificial intelligence are impossible. Computers deal in code (third person singular). Only people and other living entities can deal in experiences or be conscious (first person singular.) So only humans and other living entities can be conscious or be truly intelligent. Thus artificial intelligence is impossible Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] See my Leibniz site at http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
