[FairfieldLife] Monkeys vs Meat (Re: Mantras, Religion and finally a statement . . .)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: Ha-Ha-- i figured someone was going to say that! all the emphasis with the TMers on hovering and flying around through the air is the attempt by the ego to hold onto something while it dissolves. that is all. i did the TMSP until i didn't feel like it anymore. just lost interest-- i found the techniques very powerful and hugely useful, and i enjoyed lots of success, but not for me anymore. What kind of success? Sex change. The TMO doesn't like her (formerly him) to talk about it much. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: Enlightenment is not what you think. Hey, Pete, mind if I rephrase your one-liner? Enlightenment just is. What you think *about* it is not what you think. I'm more than open to the possibility of altered states of consciousness that many people in the past have experienced and described as enlight- enment. I have no problem with the altered states having been real, for the people doing the describing. It's just that I think that the descriptions were fanciful imaginings based on a combination of what they had been told about enlightenment and the subjective effects of the altered states themselves on the describers' mental state and thinking processes. What I suspect is that they were having real subjective experiences, experiences that don't quite map to everyday reality as most people experience it. But then they try to describe these altered states and fail, relying on either old descriptions from the past of what the altered states mean, or equally invalid new descriptions, based on solipsism. In other words, the experiences are real, if only in a subjective sense. But anything that the person says *about* the experiences and what they mean is bullshit. I'm not just being contrary or argumentative here. This is actually what I believe. Today, anyway. :-) --- On Tue, 1/27/09, ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:10 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: enlightenment is that state of consciousness in which a person no longer identifies with, and gets lost in, the objects of perception. This sounds like the I don't care anymore definition of enlightenment. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: Phonology for Fairy Field Flyers: minimal pair
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote: Minimal pair From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In phonology, minimal pairs are pairs of words or phrases in a particular language, which differ in only one phonological element, such as a phone, phoneme, toneme or chroneme and have a distinct meaning. They are used to demonstrate that two phones constitute two separate phonemes in the language. Chroneme is IMO an important phonemic feature also in Sanskrit, for instance in the minimal pair sama (same) saama (possession; song, etc.), as in 'saama-veda'. Don't read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroneme
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: bravo monkey! chatter, chatter, chatter. are you done playing with your banana, and have decided to begin chattering again? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: ED, I have noticed that you tend to snip arguments that you have no idea how to deal with, as you did above, and limit yourself to just what you consider a brilliant putdown. You also tend to get carried away with (and dare I say it, identified with) these putdowns, to the point of fouling out on posts. That reminds me of another poster in FFL's past. :-) But I've decided to let the question of who you posted as in the past drop and deal with you just as who you are posting as now. So here's a question for enlightened_dawn11, whoever that might be: One cannot help but notice that you make assertions about the nature of enlightenment as if those asser- tions were fact. You almost never present any reasons for the assertions; it's as if you believe that the fact that you write them is enough, and that the fact *that* you wrote them should pretty much end the discussion. You often seem befuddled that your assertions do NOT end the discussion, as you clearly intended them to do. There is almost an anti-intellectual quality to these declarations of certainty, as if anyone who challenges what you say about enlightenment is guilty of some failing for not believing what you say as if it were Truth Incarnate. Having seen this phenomenon before, on this forum and in the broader spiritual smorgasbord, I guess my question to you is: Are you claiming to be enlightened? My followup question, if the answer is Yes, is: Why should anyone believe you? I'm phrasing this question in personal terms, as it relates to you, ED11, whoever you are. But naturally it has broader implications. Why should we believe *anyone* who claims to be enlightened? What are some of the reasons you can think of for doing so?
[FairfieldLife] The World according to Monsant
Description This Friday Evening, Jan. 30th at 8pm in Dalby Hall the Sustainable Club Presents: The World According to Monsanto! Monsanto is the world leader in genetically modified organisms (GMOs), as well as one of the most controversial corporations in industrial history. This century-old empire has created some of the most toxic products ever sold, including polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) and the herbicide Agent Orange. Based on a painstaking investigation, The World According to Monsanto puts together the pieces of the company's history, calling on hitherto unpublished documents and numerous first-hand accounts. Check out the trailer at http://www.videosift.com/video/The-World-According-to-Monsanto-Documenta\ ry-Trailer http://www.videosift.com/video/The-World-According-to-Monsanto-Document\ ary-Trailer See you in Dalby!http://www.facebook.com/ads/adboard/
[FairfieldLife] UFO-star, Costa Rica 3. January 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LrOkAmNLwMfeature=related
[FairfieldLife] Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
Consider this an Edg-like rap, in the tradition of determining whether anyone here on FFL is interested in the odd things I am, and wants to swap stories. It's also a rap addressing ED's complaint that nobody ever talks about their spiritual experiences. I recently posted a rap about Lucid Dreaming. It is pasted in at the bottom of this post. What I'm inter- ested in is whether anyone on FFL has had experiences of this sort, and wants to rap about them. No experts, no dogma, just rappin'...trying to figure things out. The Rama fellow I studied with for many years taught Lucid Dreaming. He taught it in the context of Tibetan Dream Yoga, but the techniques were the same as those I've later found in Native American shamanism and other disciplines. The Tibetan connection is that in that tradition Lucid Dreaming is seen as analogous to (or synonymous with) the Bardo state between death and rebirth, and thus developing a facility with waking up in the dream, and being able to manipulate the dream state is seen as valuable to a culture in which the teachings of The Tibetan Book Of The Dead are assumed as a given. If you can wake up in a normal dream, and use your intention there in the astral, then it is assumed that you might also be able to do the same thing in the Bardo, and thus have a shot at a cooler rebirth. Basically, the definition of Lucid Dreaming I am using for this rap, and calling for stories about, has to do with the *interactive* nature of Lucid Dreaming. It is *not* the same as witnessing dreams, because that phenomenon is usually described as passive. Depending on the spiritual culture, the witness in witnessing dreams may be considered to be the self, or the Self. For the purposes of this rap, that distinction doesn't matter. All that matters is when that self or Self decides to wake up and take an interactive, *intentional* role in the dream. For example, if you wake up in the dream and find yourself in a room that has purple wallpaper, and you don't like the color purple, you can change the color of it in an instant. Just *intend* the color blue, and zap!, you're in a blue-colored room. If you find yourself in a location that doesn't quite do it for you, you can switch locations equally quickly and easily. That sorta thing. In the Rama trip, he first taught all of his students the basics of Dream Yoga or Lucid Dreaming, and had us prac- tice on our own for some time. Then, after enough students reported gaining a facility with it, he started having dream seminars. They were fun. What he'd do is announce that on a certain night he was open for business as a spiritual teacher, but in the dream plane. He wouldn't tell us where, or how to get there. That was our challenge, or task. To accomplish it, you'd have to first wake up in the dream, and then focus on his vibe or energy, and see if you could find the group. If you did, there was often a talk going on, or a demonstration of some abilities or siddhis, or just a party. Interestingly, many times students would see other students that they recognized in the dream seminars, say something to them, and then ask them later in the waking state to repeat it back to them. They were often able to do so. Go figure. Anyway, I always thought that Lucid Dreaming was FUN, and so I continued practicing it after I left the Rama trip, first from books on the subject, but later with a group that my girlfriend at the time (a Native American who was interested in such things) stumbled onto in Santa Fe. Again, the same sorts of scenarios took place. It was fun, but I lost interest in the group about the same time the girlfriend lost interest in me. She was 24 years younger than I was, so this did not exactly take me by surprise or devastate my world. :-) I guess the coolest Lucid Dreaming story I could tell is the funniest (from my point of view, anyway). For whatever reason, I just don't DO nightmares. I can count the number of nightmares or bad dreams I've had in my life on one hand. But in one of these rare bad dreams, I had awakened in the dream and found myself being pursued by astral bad- asses who clearly intended to do me harm. I ran from them, and astral teleported to other locations to try to get away from them, but nothing worked. They kept following me, and kept threatening me. So I decided, in the dream, to wake up *from* the dream. Voila. I found myself in my own bed at home. The rare bad dream had been bad enough that I was still feeling some uneasiness from it, so on impulse I reached over and grabbed the katana (Japanese samurai sword) that I keep by my bed. (Old habit from my martial arts days...don't ask.) Anyway, I brought the sword back into bed with me and closed my eyes and tried to go back to sleep, since it was still the middle of the night and I had to work the next morning. Voila. I'm back in the same dream, with the same having woken up in the dream mindstate, and faced with the same badasses. But there's a
[FairfieldLife] Memories grow sweeter with time?
In Finnish we say Aika kultaa muistot. (Time guilds memories.)[1]
Just checked that out, the corresponding English expression
seems to be Memories grow sweeter with time.
My memories seem to grow more bitter and depressing.
Almost everything I can recall from my past life
during this incarnation (provided reincarnation is true...) seems to
have some kind of negative emotional connotation.
I don't claim to be a vivekii or yogii by any standard, but
perhaps that negativity is a part of what Patañjali
means when he says:
...duHkham eva sarvaM vivekinaH (everything is duHkha[2] for
a vivekii[3]).
1. ~ eye-kah gool-taah muy-stott
2. duHkha adj: uneasy, unpleasant; noun: uneasiness, pain, sorrow
3. vivekin [nominative singular: vivekii -- card] mfn. discriminating
, distinguishing Ra1jat. ; separated , kept asunder (in %{a-viv-})
Kuval. ; examining , investigating Cat. ; discriminative , judicious ,
prudent , discreet , wise
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A reply to Vaj about Mantras, Religion, etc.
On Jan 27, 2009, at 10:17 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: So, what specifically did MMY say concerning the vibration of the mantras? that they were life supporting is about all i recall. that by repeating the mantra silently like any other thought, the mind trasnscends until it reaches its ground state, no thought, absolute being. i am sure an intro lecture could do this far better justice than i can. experience is the key vs. collecting information endlessly. Wow! That sounds just like the brochure! In fact, not at all different. You should do a TV ad.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Monkeys vs Meat (Re: Mantras, Religion and finally a statement . . .)
On Jan 27, 2009, at 10:20 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: Ha-Ha-- i figured someone was going to say that! all the emphasis with the TMers on hovering and flying around through the air is the attempt by the ego to hold onto something while it dissolves. that is all. i did the TMSP until i didn't feel like it anymore. just lost interest-- i found the techniques very powerful and hugely useful, and i enjoyed lots of success, but not for me anymore. What kind of success? various manifestations of the sidhis themselves. they produced results for me as taught. Wow! Just like the brochure said! You should do a TV ad.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Monkeys vs Meat (Re: Mantras, Religion and finally a statement . . .)
On Jan 28, 2009, at 3:35 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: Ha-Ha-- i figured someone was going to say that! all the emphasis with the TMers on hovering and flying around through the air is the attempt by the ego to hold onto something while it dissolves. that is all. i did the TMSP until i didn't feel like it anymore. just lost interest-- i found the techniques very powerful and hugely useful, and i enjoyed lots of success, but not for me anymore. What kind of success? Sex change. The TMO doesn't like her (formerly him) to talk about it much. That would explain the obsession with bananas.
Re: [FairfieldLife] OffWorld annhilates Vaj and Cardemeister---------was/// TM puja is religious
On Jan 27, 2009, at 11:01 PM, off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: The word 'puja' either means 'preparing for purifying', or 'the birth (begining) of the purifying life' . That is its ACTUAL meaning. OffWorld Sorry Off, but I think that's a bit like claiming, for instance, that 'purpose' is equivalent to 'poor pose' You need to check your sanskrit. 'Pu' is 'purifying'; cleansing. 'Ja' is 'born' or 'beginning'. OffWorld ROTFLMFFLOFFOLLOWMAOi! ;D Cardemeister you just tie yourself in knots with your misunderstanding of Sanskrit and Indo-European. You are all still working with outdated 19th century etymology. What a joke ! You and Vaj are completely boxed in and cannot get around it. *pu- clean VMPSIE pu:-to clean Sanskrit pu:rus pure Latin pu:ta cleaned Sanskrit pu:ti cleaning Sanskrit pûtih whiteMalay putih whiteJavanese futsi, futchi whiteMadagascar maputi whiteTagalog ma-pute whiteBuginese UEL 23, 24, 25: *pewH- clean, purifyProto- IndoEuropean + nominalising *-eno- *pewH-eno- Proto-IndoEuopean pávana (n.) sieveSanskrit (n., m.) cleaning (by threshing) Sanskrit pavana id. Pali pona: (m.) perforated iron ladle for skimming or strainingHindi loaned into *pe(w)s^enVProto-Permian puz^, púz^ sieveVotyak puz^ni_ sift Votyak poz^sieveZyryan po,z^ sieveZyryan (SE-dial.) puz^sieveZyryan (East Permian) poz^n-al- sift Zyryan o-grade + causative suffix *-eye/o- *owH-eye/o-Proto- IndoEuropean *fauja Proto-Germanic fewen (fouwen) sift (cereal), clean Old High German vöuwen id. Middle High German fe.ibm, veben sift German dial. (Tyrol.) fäensift finely (cereal), winnow German dial. (Styrian) payávaticleans, purifies Sanskrit loaned into *pows^e- Early Proto- Finnic + causative suffix *-ta- *pows^ta *pos^taProto-Finnic pohta (inf. pohtoa) winnow Finnish pohti- consider Finnish puohtua (inf.) winnow Carelian pohtta (inf.) id. Vepsian pohta: (inf.) id. Votic ma-inf. pohetama, puhetama id. Estonian dial. *pu-ne-H-, *pu-n-H- (v.) Proto- IndoEuropean *pu-ne-H-ti punáti he cleans, winnows Sanskrit *pu-n-H-mes puni:máh. we clean, winnow Sanskrit *pu-n-H-enti punánti they clean, winnow Sanskrit puna:ti cleans, siftsPa:li pun.aï cleans, winnows Pra:krit loaned into *pons^e- BalticFinnic- Mordvin + Mordvin causative suffix -vt(o)- (Ersa) ponz^avto- winnow (cereal) Mordvin (Ersa) + Mordvin causative suffix -ft(^)- (Moks^a) pon´dz^aft^- winnow (cereal) Mordvin (Moks^a) zero-grade + participal *-to- *puH-to-s Proto- IndoEuropean pu:tá-h.cleaned, purifiedSanskrit loaned into *pus^tas Proto-Finnic common Baltic Finnic, eg. puhdas, puhtaan (gen.) clean, pure Finnish puhas, puhta (gen.) id. Estonian HSED 2008: *puk- winnow *fVk- winnow, peel (corn) Berber fukk-t- id.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: What I'm inter- ested in is whether anyone on FFL has had experiences of this sort, and wants to rap about them. No experts, no dogma, just rappin'...trying to figure things out. The Rama fellow I studied with for many years taught Lucid Dreaming. He taught it in the context of Tibetan Dream Yoga, but the techniques were the same as those I've later found in Native American shamanism and other disciplines. The Tibetan connection is that in that tradition Lucid Dreaming is seen as analogous to (or synonymous with) the Bardo state between death and rebirth, and thus developing a facility with waking up in the dream, and being able to manipulate the dream state is seen as valuable to a culture in which the teachings of The Tibetan Book Of The Dead are assumed as a given. If you can wake up in a normal dream, and use your intention there in the astral, then it is assumed that you might also be able to do the same thing in the Bardo, and thus have a shot at a cooler rebirth. Hi Turq, Yeah, there is at least one Satsang in FF that works with this as technique or method for cultivating clarity of experience with immortal soul. Is a type of meditation for them along with TM. Spiritual practice, not spiritism. Some people quite adept at it. JGD, -D in FF
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: What I'm inter- ested in is whether anyone on FFL has had experiences of this sort, and wants to rap about them. No experts, no dogma, just rappin'...trying to figure things out. The Rama fellow I studied with for many years taught Lucid Dreaming. He taught it in the context of Tibetan Dream Yoga, but the techniques were the same as those I've later found in Native American shamanism and other disciplines. The Tibetan connection is that in that tradition Lucid Dreaming is seen as analogous to (or synonymous with) the Bardo state between death and rebirth, and thus developing a facility with waking up in the dream, and being able to manipulate the dream state is seen as valuable to a culture in which the teachings of The Tibetan Book Of The Dead are assumed as a given. If you can wake up in a normal dream, and use your intention there in the astral, then it is assumed that you might also be able to do the same thing in the Bardo, and thus have a shot at a cooler rebirth. Hi Turq, Yeah, there is at least one Satsang in FF that works with this as technique or method for cultivating clarity of experience with immortal soul. Is a type of meditation for them along with TM. Spiritual practice, not spiritism. Some people quite adept at it. Cool. I had to ask because, of course, no such studies were present in the TMO, at least not during my time with it, or as reported here or on a.m.t. in the years afterwards. I found it a rewarding study, if on no other level than fun. ( Which for me is a valid reason for doing almost anything. :-) Its practical application ( other than general self knowledge ) might be limited to its relationship with pho-wa, the Tibetan study of what takes places after death, and making the transition between death and rebirth as conscious a process, and as productive as possible, but it sure was fun. Come to think of it, though, some people who, unlike me, tended to have nightmares or bad dreams were able to use Lucid Dreaming to address and neutralize or dissolve their fears. They just woke up in the dream and faced down the bogeymen who were threat- ening them. Do this enough times in the dream plane, and it starts to roll over into one's waking state as well. The parallels between the experience of the astral plane in dreaming and the experience of possibly the same astral plane in the Bardo are many. Of course, you won't know whether these parallels are anything other than idle speculation until you Bite The Big One and die. :-) But if there *is* some connection, it seems to me that having developed a facility with intentionally directing the movie in dreams might be handy when placed in a similar movie in the Bardo. Better IMO than finding yourself a powerless actor in Someone Else's Movie. Other than that, for which I like everyone else will have to play wait and see to determine the truth of, all I can say is that it's great fun. Once a group of four of us decided to get together in the dream plane to play poker. It was hilarious! Everyone kept changing not only the rules (a la Calvinball in Calvin and Hobbes), but the pictures on the cards. They'd never be the same from hand to hand, so the dealer would have to make up new rules to go with the new cards. I'm laughing out loud just remembering it. :-) :-) :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
I've had a number of bizarre dreams over the years, but of course they typically don't seem strange while dreaming, it's only in the waking state that they seem strange. One odd dream was with my root teacher, who's a master of dream yoga and sleep. We were on retreat and I had brought a rare rasayana for him as a gift. The night after I gave it to him, he appears in a lucid dream in which we are in a particular situation where I'm standing directly next to his teaching throne and he tilts it to show me the opened jar and how he'd used a spoon to scoop out the rasayana in a certain pattern, so it's scraped out like a little bowl. The day after I gave it to him I was waiting to see him in line. As soon as the person in front of me walks away, he leans over picks up the jar, tilts the jar and holds the spoon just like in the dream. As I look inside it's exactly like the dream. The instant he sees my startle, he breaks out into a huge smile and a sense of unified spaciousness and warmth covers everything. The question I had, is gone. With nothing to say and everything I needed gained. I just smile, bow and walk away. He continues on as if nothing happened. One of the stranger series of dreams I've had surrounds UFO sitings I had with a group of family and friends when I was a young teenager. They developed over the course of my life. At the point they began to have stronger significance, I had dreams over several nights, each dream in sequence, picking up where the other one left off. The odd thing was, in recollecting them after the sequence had completed, I could ONLY remember them as one continuous whole, as if they had arisen out of something more unified, that had no break in continuity. Very strange. When I was first learning to do a form of nondual contemplation called the shattering of tensions, I would often find myself in dreams where I was challenged to perform this style of practice in the dream. The dynamic was usually where some set of repeating karmic patterns presented themselves in the dream; this might mean being in a room where certain phenomenon would repeat to the point of being very annoying. I eventually learned that if I applied the technique at the precise moment the annoyance crescendoed, the dream elements would freeze in time and I could then transform the dream or allow the individual karmic constructs which made up the dream, dissolve back into the void, liberating the patterns that held them in place. That's one of the ways I was taught nondual contemplation. On waking I just immediately understood how to do the practice in waking state, a point that had alluded me before. In the dream state you're not a hampered by time, you can even play dreams in reverse or examine individual dream elements. Once one could shatter the constructs of the dreams, you could reduce it to a bare presence, even less than a 'witness', just a permeating clear presence. Those are some of the tamer examples. Some are simply too bizarre to share on a public list.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: In the dream state you're not a hampered by time, you can even play dreams in reverse or examine individual dream elements. Once one could shatter the constructs of the dreams, you could reduce it to a bare presence, even less than a 'witness', just a permeating clear presence. Those are some of the tamer examples. Some are simply too bizarre to share on a public list. Thanks for sharing your stories, Vaj. I figured you'd have had a few, given your studies. The story with your teacher is interesting because it so clearly maps from dream state to waking state. You can remember the incident and find some way of expressing it in the waking state because it uses waking state images and metaphors. But did you ever encounter teachings in the dream plane that just don't map to the waking state at all? I've had that experience many times, and it's always fascinating. The teaching itself was always clear as a bell *in* the dream plane. Whatever was being discussed or whatever ability was being taught was no problem to follow or learn. But upon waking, any attempt to remember it clearly or to put it into words or to even describe it in terms of everyday reality failed miserably because the teaching took place in a separate reality, as Castaneda would put it. Some things just don't map from astral to waking. There is no *counterpart* for them in everyday wak- ing reality. They cannot be expressed here or even conceived of here. That is one reason why the Rama guy and at least one Tibetan teacher I've worked with preferred to do some of their teaching in the dream plane. They could get into things there in a way that they just can't in the waking state.
Re: [FairfieldLife] My first MM's!
Hahaahahha - Original Message - From: cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 1:38 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] My first MM's! Just bought my first package of MM's ever. They been available here in East-of-Sweden, quite near the Russian border, only a couple of months now. :0
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
Excellent, Peter. It's exactly the map of the territory Maharishi has been telling grasshopper, identifying for years with the weeds he's been smokin'. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: Enlightenment is not what you think because: You can not get enlightened. A thought is necessarily bound by time and space and therefore has nothing to do with enlightenment. You can not model enlightenment. So with those caveats. In ignorance you are somebody. A psychological private self that relates to the world. Then you get 1st stage enlightenment and you are nobody. Actually, no you to be or not to be. Consciousness becomes conscious of its own consciousness and withdraws identity with any space/time experience. No-Self. No localization of consciousness. Weird as shit for the mind. You no longer exist, only consciousness within which everything occurs. Then you get 2nd stage enlightenment Grasshopper. Now you are everybody. Consciousness awakens to its bound value of space and time as simply consciousness. All moving within itself. From here to here through there according to Maharishi. Those are good words. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: From: Peter drpetersutp...@... Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 8:18 PM Enlightenment is not what you think. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:10 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: enlightenment is that state of consciousness in which a person no longer identifies with, and gets lost in, the objects of perception. This sounds like the I don't care anymore definition of enlightenment. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
On Jan 28, 2009, at 8:44 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: But did you ever encounter teachings in the dream plane that just don't map to the waking state at all? I've had that experience many times, and it's always fascinating. The teaching itself was always clear as a bell *in* the dream plane. Whatever was being discussed or whatever ability was being taught was no problem to follow or learn. But upon waking, any attempt to remember it clearly or to put it into words or to even describe it in terms of everyday reality failed miserably because the teaching took place in a separate reality, as Castaneda would put it. Some things just don't map from astral to waking. There is no *counterpart* for them in everyday wak- ing reality. They cannot be expressed here or even conceived of here. That is one reason why the Rama guy and at least one Tibetan teacher I've worked with preferred to do some of their teaching in the dream plane. They could get into things there in a way that they just can't in the waking state. A number of the things I'd previously described simply cannot be done (as they were done in the dream) in the waking state, but they almost always will have some waking or meditative state counterpart that I had to realize or flash to. Occasionally I would tap into strata that I was not ready to integrate across states, despite being elaborate teachings which were clearly relevant, taught important practical lessons, meditative states etc. and the being that revealed them would simply collapse them to a point and reintroduce them into my (subconscious) mindstream. As linear events unfold, I can sense that enfolded mandala providing datum that teaches along a sequence of unfolding waking time (if that makes sense). Another thing I realized was that sometimes the teaching may not have any value outside the dream or trance state other than to introduce to the mind the possibility that a certain thing, state of consciousness, type of practice is possible. Not only does it have the advantage of expanding the realm of possibilities of what the mind can conceive, but also expanding the possibility of what it can believe. Once it establishes the possibility of belief, the possibility of that thing actually occurring, it automatically removes an impediment to those things occurring. In yet other cases a certain bizarre experience may simply form a passage which creates a samskara or mind-imprint which will create a foothold or seed-form, usually along with other seed forms to allow other experiences and states of consciousness to develop--but an and of themselves they possess no real meaning, they're just necessary ordeals.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Memories grow sweeter with time?
No, it is from ones own imperfect intentions. If you perfect your good intentions you will come to expect nothing but good things. In time, you will look back and see only good. Be proactive and shape your destiny. This of course sounds easier than it is. So take some time to get used to repetition of positives, or better yet, smoke a joint and then meditate and get out of that negative mind set. It doesn't help anything. Make love. Remember, it's not what you did as you get older that you regret, it's what you didn't do. Yogis mostly are very much in love with life. Overwhelmingly so. - Original Message - From: cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 5:56 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Memories grow sweeter with time? In Finnish we say Aika kultaa muistot. (Time guilds memories.)[1] Just checked that out, the corresponding English expression seems to be Memories grow sweeter with time. My memories seem to grow more bitter and depressing. Almost everything I can recall from my past life during this incarnation (provided reincarnation is true...) seems to have some kind of negative emotional connotation.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
I was fascinated with lucid dreaming and read the classic book when I was about ten years old. I tried to do it a few times. I have had many intermeditation dreams which were very much awake at the same time. I have never and do not now practice any sort of dream meditation or structure as I see no reason to learn to control phantoms. However, I have dreams of the future if I dream. For instance I had a dream one night about driving really far and trying to get gas and someone at the pump spilling it out all over my feet, and then waking up and hearing about the huge oil spill in Russia. I am not certain if I am not just able somehow to maybe hear very clearly while asleep and picking up on television from someone nearby, or whatever, but if I let them dreams will show me everything before the next days events to look out for people should probably understand however that this probably comes from a lifetime of reading Tarot cards as a confidant and friend and counselor. There was a time a couple years back where I went yajna crazy and all the energy from priests on me every night in India kept me from sleeping for months on end. In the end I had to cut out all yajnas as even 'bogus' ones I find powerful as its ones intention which has the basic power. During that time, I slept fitfully for about an hour or two a night, and my dreams were filled with the occult knowledge of all ages. I was transformed into Hermes or Melchezidek. It was pretty intense, and I am glad it has passed. That was enough outright tampering with destiny for one lifetime. Probably the most lucid dream I ever had was again a meditation dream, that is, dreaming in a sitting position, and I watched my mind fall asleep and then it was empty of object and then images started going as if I were driving some place and then I saw a marina and the yachts and it was pretty. That was all. But startlingly clear. Nothing very meaningful to it however.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: A number of the things I'd previously described simply cannot be done (as they were done in the dream) in the waking state, but they almost always will have some waking or meditative state counterpart that I had to realize or flash to. Occasionally I would tap into strata that I was not ready to integrate across states, despite being elaborate teachings which were clearly relevant, taught important practical lessons, meditative states etc. and the being that revealed them would simply collapse them to a point and reintroduce them into my (subconscious) mindstream. As linear events unfold, I can sense that enfolded mandala providing datum that teaches along a sequence of unfolding waking time (if that makes sense). It does make sense, because I once tried to write a story about one of these doesn't map dreams. In the dream, I showed up at one of Rama's dream seminars mentioned earlier. However, this happened during a period of time when I was no longer one of his students, so I found it interesting, to say the least. What reminded me of it was your image of collapsing the knowledge into a point and storing it somewhere in your mind, conscious or subconscious. Here's the story, written as I saw it at the time, with all of the emotionality of the time. I doubt that I would express it the same way now. http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm21.html Another thing I realized was that sometimes the teaching may not have any value outside the dream or trance state other than to introduce to the mind the possibility that a certain thing, state of consciousness, type of practice is possible. I fully agree. Not only does it have the advantage of expanding the realm of possibilities of what the mind can conceive, but also expanding the possibility of what it can believe. Exactly. This applies to experience of witnessing the siddhis being performed as well. Once it establishes the possibility of belief, the possibility of that thing actually occurring, it automatically removes an impediment to those things occurring. Yup.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
I don't know if this qualifies as Lucid Dreaming or not - but about 1-2 times per month I will find myself in a frustrating dream. I attempt to salvage the dream by removing the frustration, but eventually just decide to end it and wake up. Example: Just last night I dreamt I was on a jet flight and was stuck with this super annoying passenger. He was bugging the crap out of me - and everyone else on the plane. At some point I got fed up with everything and I step in and decided to have the plane land far short of the runway on a city street just so I could get off the plane and away from this guy. I remember looking out the passenger window and 'flying' the plane down thru this city street, the wings get knocked off by the buildings. I remember the potholes and even a stretch of cobblestone. Beautiful landing. The plane comes to a stop - I get off and away from this guy, then it's back to dream mode - in other words, back to more frustration. Cuz this guy reappears and tells me he going to go to O'Hare with me but first he's got to take a leak . . . Anyways, sorry about the boring details, but the nuts and bolts are the following: 1) frustration in a dream 2) I 'step in', put the dream on hold, and attempt to remove the frustration 3) if I am successful, dream will continue 4) either way, eventually the 'frustration stack' will get to me and I decide to wake up and end it 5) my first thought upon waking is always regret - I should have given the dream one more chance. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: Consider this an Edg-like rap, in the tradition of determining whether anyone here on FFL is interested in the odd things I am, and wants to swap stories. It's also a rap addressing ED's complaint that nobody ever talks about their spiritual experiences. I recently posted a rap about Lucid Dreaming. It is pasted in at the bottom of this post. What I'm inter- ested in is whether anyone on FFL has had experiences of this sort, and wants to rap about them. No experts, no dogma, just rappin'...trying to figure things out. The Rama fellow I studied with for many years taught Lucid Dreaming. He taught it in the context of Tibetan Dream Yoga, but the techniques were the same as those I've later found in Native American shamanism and other disciplines. The Tibetan connection is that in that tradition Lucid Dreaming is seen as analogous to (or synonymous with) the Bardo state between death and rebirth, and thus developing a facility with waking up in the dream, and being able to manipulate the dream state is seen as valuable to a culture in which the teachings of The Tibetan Book Of The Dead are assumed as a given. If you can wake up in a normal dream, and use your intention there in the astral, then it is assumed that you might also be able to do the same thing in the Bardo, and thus have a shot at a cooler rebirth. Basically, the definition of Lucid Dreaming I am using for this rap, and calling for stories about, has to do with the *interactive* nature of Lucid Dreaming. It is *not* the same as witnessing dreams, because that phenomenon is usually described as passive. Depending on the spiritual culture, the witness in witnessing dreams may be considered to be the self, or the Self. For the purposes of this rap, that distinction doesn't matter. All that matters is when that self or Self decides to wake up and take an interactive, *intentional* role in the dream. For example, if you wake up in the dream and find yourself in a room that has purple wallpaper, and you don't like the color purple, you can change the color of it in an instant. Just *intend* the color blue, and zap!, you're in a blue-colored room. If you find yourself in a location that doesn't quite do it for you, you can switch locations equally quickly and easily. That sorta thing. In the Rama trip, he first taught all of his students the basics of Dream Yoga or Lucid Dreaming, and had us prac- tice on our own for some time. Then, after enough students reported gaining a facility with it, he started having dream seminars. They were fun. What he'd do is announce that on a certain night he was open for business as a spiritual teacher, but in the dream plane. He wouldn't tell us where, or how to get there. That was our challenge, or task. To accomplish it, you'd have to first wake up in the dream, and then focus on his vibe or energy, and see if you could find the group. If you did, there was often a talk going on, or a demonstration of some abilities or siddhis, or just a party. Interestingly, many times students would see other students that they recognized in the dream seminars, say something to them, and then ask them later in the waking state to repeat it back to them. They were often able to do so. Go figure. Anyway, I always thought that Lucid Dreaming was FUN, and so I continued practicing it after I left
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifux...@... wrote: --you say, to paraphrase: (according to MMY, those are good words). But You can not get enlightened are your words, not his. He didn't often use the E word (if ever) in the context of a progression from CC - BC - UC; but he might have said something like: You can reach Unity Consciousness. That being the case, MMY's teachings would conflict with your Neo-Advaitin nonsense. Who you calling a knuckle dragging Neo-Advaitin, Buster? Them's fighten' words. Peter is obviously Advaitin, there's not an ounce of Neo in him. Just to clarify the splitting of hairs, here's an excellent description of Traditional Advaita versus Neo-Advaita: http://tinyurl.com/c8b4yw In support of Peter the Great: The range of creative intelligence is from here to here. So obviously there's no place to go. If I could go, I'd hop a bus to there. So here it is: the clown bus, the crazy passengers and the fun ride (knowledge, knower and the process of knowing) beautifully woven together as one. Innocently pull one tread in one amazing moment of just be and the mistake of intellect instantly unravels. MMY wasn't jiving us when he said the concept of a path is for the ignorant. So leave or stay on the bus, whatever, I'm just glad MMY provided [keys to the bus (TM) and] such a glorious map [SCI] to just be nowhere. raunchydog post #203856
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
On Jan 28, 2009, at 9:52 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Not only does it have the advantage of expanding the realm of possibilities of what the mind can conceive, but also expanding the possibility of what it can believe. Exactly. This applies to experience of witnessing the siddhis being performed as well. Well even in the case of siddhis you have not experienced in waking state. For example some of my teachers have spontaneously displayed various siddhis while I was present, others when I wasn't around to witness. My degree of trust is so established, when I hear of other phenomenon by the same teacher, I have a base of practical understanding to accommodate experiences I have not experienced first hand myself. For example, my one teacher was handed a tiny yellow scroll with minute dakini-script writing on it in a dream. He later awoke with his fists still clenched around it. He literally pries open his fists and there, in waking state, is the yellow scroll from the dream. I did not experience this first hand, but the level of trust, along with my own first hand experiences, tells me that as strange as it sounds, this actually did happen, as described. It also jives with my growing perception of the super-seamlessness of so-call different states of consciousness. :-) Conversely, hearing stories of MMY walking thru walls from a concrete salesman theosophist are more likely to have me chuckling rather than even considering them as valid. There's just no credibility or integrity there to support it. Quite the opposite really. There's that sleazy feeling you're being set up. It is interesting to me that some people are willing to go to such extremes to sell their product or to get people to buy into their belief system that they'll just make stuff up becasue they no some people will buy it hook-line-and- sinker.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
I am far from an expert on all this myself, and thus can't say whether this is a legitimate example of Lucid Dreaming or not. Sounds like it, if you intentionally changed the direction of the dream, even if you didn't have the sensation of waking up in the dream. On the other hand, if I'm ever on a plane with you sometime, you'll have to forgive me if I sit in another row, just in case. :-) :-) :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Larry inmadi...@... wrote: I don't know if this qualifies as Lucid Dreaming or not - but about 1-2 times per month I will find myself in a frustrating dream. I attempt to salvage the dream by removing the frustration, but eventually just decide to end it and wake up. Example: Just last night I dreamt I was on a jet flight and was stuck with this super annoying passenger. He was bugging the crap out of me - and everyone else on the plane. At some point I got fed up with everything and I step in and decided to have the plane land far short of the runway on a city street just so I could get off the plane and away from this guy. I remember looking out the passenger window and 'flying' the plane down thru this city street, the wings get knocked off by the buildings. I remember the potholes and even a stretch of cobblestone. Beautiful landing. The plane comes to a stop - I get off and away from this guy, then it's back to dream mode - in other words, back to more frustration. Cuz this guy reappears and tells me he going to go to O'Hare with me but first he's got to take a leak . . . Anyways, sorry about the boring details, but the nuts and bolts are the following: 1) frustration in a dream 2) I 'step in', put the dream on hold, and attempt to remove the frustration 3) if I am successful, dream will continue 4) either way, eventually the 'frustration stack' will get to me and I decide to wake up and end it 5) my first thought upon waking is always regret - I should have given the dream one more chance.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
Turq, I find it strange that you are being somewhat pro lucid dreaming when I compare that to your POV about oogabooganess in general. I've but dabbled with lucid dreaming, so I can't go toe to toe with you, but I can ask questions of you that should clarify some things for me if you honestly answer. If you truly believe that you and others were meeting in the astral or were in the same dream . . . whatever, then there's easy and scientific experiments you could conduct that would prove if such an experience is real or merely imagination. So, here's an experiment: All you have to do is come out of a lucid dream and tell what you saw in another physical location and then check to see if that is true. I have four statues on my desk, so presumably an adept at lucid dreaming should be able to hover over my desk and wake up with information about the statues. I'm betting you'll say you personally cannot do this, but it seems you'll also say that IT CAN BE DONE. I'm saying that if someone cannot pony up the correct information about my statues (or meet other such testing challenges) then astral traveling remains unproved. But you seem to be a cheerleader for the validity of the concept, and that seems at odds with your other POVs. I'm shocked that you are being such a pushover about the reports about lucid dreaming, and I'm at the same time fascinated and wanting to know how that all works inside your logic systems. Your statement about actually doing lucid dreaming that is, to you, valid, and that you are saying that almost anyone can gain this skill, makes it astounding that science hasn't nailed this phenomenon down pat by now. In fact, I would challenge ANY lucid dreamer to pass The Great Randi's test and collect his cash reward -- surely, also, the NSA and other black-op governmental wogs would be all over this ability as a threat to national security -- some terrorist should be able to dream about, what?, passwords, account numbers, conversations the President is having with top militarists, spy on any operation, etc. The whole thing stinks of scam when real world concerns would have discovered and used the ability to astral travel for many many many reasons. Where's the beef? All that said, how's 'bout this: If someone can guide their dreams, then why not simply have the intention to be enlightened, or, say, meet Krishna, or, hey, my favorite, have the dream character meditate and see what happens, cuz, in the astral, why, you're right next door to ritam levels, and the siddhis surely must be far more intense and productive etc. when one can mindfully be at that lesser state of excitation that, by definition, the astral state must be. So??? Got beef? But these things are not commonly attempted by lucid dreamers, and in fact, a brief survey of lucid dreamers' accounts of their experiences will yield a vast profusion of the most ordinary kind of dreaming material -- there is almost no clamoring in the lucid dreaming community for having their best dreamers be tested as The Great Randi might suggest. I do agree that witnessing dreams is possible, but I think it's a skill that only the most adept yogi-types can be expected to have much skill in doing. I'm convinced that it is a case of what happens in meat, only happens in meat. Imagination is incredibly powerful, and the willingness to be fooled is commonplace. A good lucid dreamer should be able to completely convince any scientist in short order -- but it simply has not happened, right? Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: Consider this an Edg-like rap, in the tradition of determining whether anyone here on FFL is interested in the odd things I am, and wants to swap stories. It's also a rap addressing ED's complaint that nobody ever talks about their spiritual experiences. I recently posted a rap about Lucid Dreaming. It is pasted in at the bottom of this post. What I'm inter- ested in is whether anyone on FFL has had experiences of this sort, and wants to rap about them. No experts, no dogma, just rappin'...trying to figure things out. The Rama fellow I studied with for many years taught Lucid Dreaming. He taught it in the context of Tibetan Dream Yoga, but the techniques were the same as those I've later found in Native American shamanism and other disciplines. The Tibetan connection is that in that tradition Lucid Dreaming is seen as analogous to (or synonymous with) the Bardo state between death and rebirth, and thus developing a facility with waking up in the dream, and being able to manipulate the dream state is seen as valuable to a culture in which the teachings of The Tibetan Book Of The Dead are assumed as a given. If you can wake up in a normal dream, and use your intention there in the astral, then it is assumed that you might also be able to do the same thing in the Bardo, and thus have a shot at a cooler rebirth. Basically, the
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
agreed-- really well said dr. pete. enlightenment is real, viable and experienced-- just not by -thinking- raunchydog, i don't get your comments at all- care to clarify please? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: Excellent, Peter. It's exactly the map of the territory Maharishi has been telling grasshopper, identifying for years with the weeds he's been smokin'. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Enlightenment is not what you think because: You can not get enlightened. A thought is necessarily bound by time and space and therefore has nothing to do with enlightenment. You can not model enlightenment. So with those caveats. In ignorance you are somebody. A psychological private self that relates to the world. Then you get 1st stage enlightenment and you are nobody. Actually, no you to be or not to be. Consciousness becomes conscious of its own consciousness and withdraws identity with any space/time experience. No-Self. No localization of consciousness. Weird as shit for the mind. You no longer exist, only consciousness within which everything occurs. Then you get 2nd stage enlightenment Grasshopper. Now you are everybody. Consciousness awakens to its bound value of space and time as simply consciousness. All moving within itself. From here to here through there according to Maharishi. Those are good words. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: From: Peter drpetersutphen@ Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 8:18 PM Enlightenment is not what you think. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:10 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: enlightenment is that state of consciousness in which a person no longer identifies with, and gets lost in, the objects of perception. This sounds like the I don't care anymore definition of enlightenment. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: My first MM's!
surely you were able to buy Smarties previously? (similar candy made in the UK, only with as i recall, a matte finish shell vs. MMs gloss shell) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote: Just bought my first package of MM's ever. They been available here in East-of-Sweden, quite near the Russian border, only a couple of months now. :0 Perhaps I shouldn't've done that...they feel rather addictive! http://www.maa.org/mathland/mathland_3_10.html http://www.gypsii.com/place.cgi?op=viewid=353881
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
Jumping in. I've never had any instruction on how to control lucid dreams, have no intention intention to do so, but find that I can if I want to. If lucid dreaming spontaneously occurs, it sometimes happens in the dome during rest after program. If I had a particularly blissful program, during rest, maybe it's kundalini, I don't really know, but it feels like my crown chakra is plugged into a light socket. Here's the re-occurring sequence: I'm resting, my eyes are closed but I see everything and everyone in the dome. I start to fly above everyone and can control where I go and what I see. As I rise higher above everyone I can fly anywhere, over roof tops, into the clouds, to the moon, the stars, the sun, wherever. The longer I fly the move intense the feeling of electricity flooding my brain. Sometimes I hear choirs of angels and I can direct the music. Sometimes, I see Maharishi or Guru Dev or a bright light that looks like me looking back at me or a third eye right in front of my third eye, but more like an elephant eye, like Ganesha and I can decide to observe it. I don't know what it means and I don't care. I take a neutral attitude toward it and I just enjoy it when it happens. Some might call my experience astral travel but on this subject I do remember Maharishi cautioning We don't leave the house if it isn't clean. If I am astral traveling hopefully, my house is clean enough that I can leave it for a few minutes without having uninvited guests showing up. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: Consider this an Edg-like rap, in the tradition of determining whether anyone here on FFL is interested in the odd things I am, and wants to swap stories. It's also a rap addressing ED's complaint that nobody ever talks about their spiritual experiences. I recently posted a rap about Lucid Dreaming. It is pasted in at the bottom of this post. What I'm inter- ested in is whether anyone on FFL has had experiences of this sort, and wants to rap about them. No experts, no dogma, just rappin'...trying to figure things out. The Rama fellow I studied with for many years taught Lucid Dreaming. He taught it in the context of Tibetan Dream Yoga, but the techniques were the same as those I've later found in Native American shamanism and other disciplines. The Tibetan connection is that in that tradition Lucid Dreaming is seen as analogous to (or synonymous with) the Bardo state between death and rebirth, and thus developing a facility with waking up in the dream, and being able to manipulate the dream state is seen as valuable to a culture in which the teachings of The Tibetan Book Of The Dead are assumed as a given. If you can wake up in a normal dream, and use your intention there in the astral, then it is assumed that you might also be able to do the same thing in the Bardo, and thus have a shot at a cooler rebirth. Basically, the definition of Lucid Dreaming I am using for this rap, and calling for stories about, has to do with the *interactive* nature of Lucid Dreaming. It is *not* the same as witnessing dreams, because that phenomenon is usually described as passive. Depending on the spiritual culture, the witness in witnessing dreams may be considered to be the self, or the Self. For the purposes of this rap, that distinction doesn't matter. All that matters is when that self or Self decides to wake up and take an interactive, *intentional* role in the dream. For example, if you wake up in the dream and find yourself in a room that has purple wallpaper, and you don't like the color purple, you can change the color of it in an instant. Just *intend* the color blue, and zap!, you're in a blue-colored room. If you find yourself in a location that doesn't quite do it for you, you can switch locations equally quickly and easily. That sorta thing. In the Rama trip, he first taught all of his students the basics of Dream Yoga or Lucid Dreaming, and had us prac- tice on our own for some time. Then, after enough students reported gaining a facility with it, he started having dream seminars. They were fun. What he'd do is announce that on a certain night he was open for business as a spiritual teacher, but in the dream plane. He wouldn't tell us where, or how to get there. That was our challenge, or task. To accomplish it, you'd have to first wake up in the dream, and then focus on his vibe or energy, and see if you could find the group. If you did, there was often a talk going on, or a demonstration of some abilities or siddhis, or just a party. Interestingly, many times students would see other students that they recognized in the dream seminars, say something to them, and then ask them later in the waking state to repeat it back to them. They were often able to do so. Go figure. Anyway, I always thought that Lucid Dreaming was FUN, and so I continued practicing it after I left the Rama trip, first
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: agreed-- really well said dr. pete. enlightenment is real, viable and experienced-- just not by -thinking- raunchydog, i don't get your comments at all- care to clarify please? Just jiving Peter. It's an analogy that obviously failed. It's a stretch but my point was, the grasshopper identifies with the weeds in which he lives so much so that he smokes the weed and hallucinates his existence to be something real. Sorry, I can't wrap my brain around it any further than that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: Excellent, Peter. It's exactly the map of the territory Maharishi has been telling grasshopper, identifying for years with the weeds he's been smokin'. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Enlightenment is not what you think because: You can not get enlightened. A thought is necessarily bound by time and space and therefore has nothing to do with enlightenment. You can not model enlightenment. So with those caveats. In ignorance you are somebody. A psychological private self that relates to the world. Then you get 1st stage enlightenment and you are nobody. Actually, no you to be or not to be. Consciousness becomes conscious of its own consciousness and withdraws identity with any space/time experience. No-Self. No localization of consciousness. Weird as shit for the mind. You no longer exist, only consciousness within which everything occurs. Then you get 2nd stage enlightenment Grasshopper. Now you are everybody. Consciousness awakens to its bound value of space and time as simply consciousness. All moving within itself. From here to here through there according to Maharishi. Those are good words. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: From: Peter drpetersutphen@ Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 8:18 PM Enlightenment is not what you think. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:10 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: enlightenment is that state of consciousness in which a person no longer identifies with, and gets lost in, the objects of perception. This sounds like the I don't care anymore definition of enlightenment. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: Turq, I find it strange that you are being somewhat pro lucid dreaming when I compare that to your POV about oogabooganess in general. Edg, I have *no problem* with oogabooganess. I have a problem with *unexamined* oogabooganess. :-) That is, I have respect for those who accept their out-of-the-ordinary experiences as valid experiences. But I have little for those who buy into someone else's ego-stroking explanation of what those experiences mean. To quote Blade Runner, I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. But I don't claim to know what those things meant. And I don't claim that having seen them makes me special, or highly evolved, only lucky. I've but dabbled with lucid dreaming, so I can't go toe to toe with you, but I can ask questions of you that should clarify some things for me if you honestly answer. If you truly believe that you and others were meeting in the astral or were in the same dream . . . whatever, then there's easy and scientific experiments you could conduct that would prove if such an experience is real or merely imagination. Yup. I suggest you get in touch with some group that practices Lucid Dreaming and propose your experiment to them. I'm not involved with such a group. So, here's an experiment: All you have to do is come out of a lucid dream and tell what you saw in another physical location and then check to see if that is true. Been there, done that many times. But for me to say so now means as little as for me to say that I've seen real levitation. Both are true, from my subjec- tive experience, but I can't prove it to you. I don't even care to try. I'm merely reporting my experiences; you can make of them what you want. But I agree with you that some of the Lucid Dreaming experiences could be objectively verified. I hope you get in touch with some group that is interested in putting them to the test. I'm not in touch with any such group at this time, so I can't help you. I have four statues on my desk, so presumably an adept at lucid dreaming should be able to hover over my desk and wake up with information about the statues. I'm betting you'll say you personally cannot do this... I wouldn't want to. Besides, in my experience I was usually only able to dream teleport to the *astral counterpart* of places I'd been to in real life, for the most part. It was rarer for me to be able to go to somewhere I'd never been before. As for astral counterpart, I'm saying that sometimes the quality of the place was different in dreaming than in waking state. Lighting could be different, doors could be present in dreaming that aren't there in real life, that sorta thing. Again, I'm not trying to explain this stuff or make excuses for it; I'm merely reporting what my experiences were. ...but it seems you'll also say that IT CAN BE DONE. I have no idea whether it can be done or not. I think yours is an unrealistic test. If you find someone who cares enough about proving things to take you up on your challenge, based on my experience I'd suggest giving them the option of going somewhere they have been able to go before. You can control what appears in that location you want, as part of the test, but picking an arbitrary location they've never been before seems like a bad test to me, based on my experiences. I'm saying that if someone cannot pony up the correct information about my statues (or meet other such testing challenges) then astral traveling remains unproved. And I'm saying that yours is an unrealistic test. See above. But you seem to be a cheerleader for the validity of the concept, and that seems at odds with your other POVs. Not at all. I am merely at odds with accepting one and only one interpretation of one's experiences as the correct one. I continually examine and reexamine my experiences, and am open to many ways of seeing them. It's only when someone declares *This* is what my experience 'means' that I give them a tough time. I'm shocked that you are being such a pushover about the reports about lucid dreaming... I'm shocked that you can't read. I have said *nothing* about reports about lucid dreaming. I have merely reported my own subjective experiences. ...and I'm at the same time fascinated and wanting to know how that all works inside your logic systems. Your statement about actually doing lucid dreaming that is, to you, valid, and that you are saying that almost anyone can gain this skill, makes it astounding that science hasn't nailed this phenomenon down pat by now. Makes sense to me. But it is not my interest to do so. Never has been, never will be. If it's yours, by all means pursue it. I only dabbled in lucid dreaming for fun. In fact, I would challenge ANY lucid dreamer to pass The Great Randi's test and collect his cash reward -- surely, also, the NSA and other black-op governmental wogs would be all over
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
Hey Edg, I'll have to check again tonight, but when I floated thru your office the other night, I thot for sure one of those stautues was a bust. Speaking of busts, those old Playboys you've got stashed away are a hoot. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: Turq, I find it strange that you are being somewhat pro lucid dreaming when I compare that to your POV about oogabooganess in general. I've but dabbled with lucid dreaming, so I can't go toe to toe with you, but I can ask questions of you that should clarify some things for me if you honestly answer. If you truly believe that you and others were meeting in the astral or were in the same dream . . . whatever, then there's easy and scientific experiments you could conduct that would prove if such an experience is real or merely imagination. So, here's an experiment: All you have to do is come out of a lucid dream and tell what you saw in another physical location and then check to see if that is true. I have four statues on my desk, so presumably an adept at lucid dreaming should be able to hover over my desk and wake up with information about the statues. I'm betting you'll say you personally cannot do this, but it seems you'll also say that IT CAN BE DONE. I'm saying that if someone cannot pony up the correct information about my statues (or meet other such testing challenges) then astral traveling remains unproved. But you seem to be a cheerleader for the validity of the concept, and that seems at odds with your other POVs. I'm shocked that you are being such a pushover about the reports about lucid dreaming, and I'm at the same time fascinated and wanting to know how that all works inside your logic systems. Your statement about actually doing lucid dreaming that is, to you, valid, and that you are saying that almost anyone can gain this skill, makes it astounding that science hasn't nailed this phenomenon down pat by now. In fact, I would challenge ANY lucid dreamer to pass The Great Randi's test and collect his cash reward -- surely, also, the NSA and other black-op governmental wogs would be all over this ability as a threat to national security -- some terrorist should be able to dream about, what?, passwords, account numbers, conversations the President is having with top militarists, spy on any operation, etc. The whole thing stinks of scam when real world concerns would have discovered and used the ability to astral travel for many many many reasons. Where's the beef? All that said, how's 'bout this: If someone can guide their dreams, then why not simply have the intention to be enlightened, or, say, meet Krishna, or, hey, my favorite, have the dream character meditate and see what happens, cuz, in the astral, why, you're right next door to ritam levels, and the siddhis surely must be far more intense and productive etc. when one can mindfully be at that lesser state of excitation that, by definition, the astral state must be. So??? Got beef? But these things are not commonly attempted by lucid dreamers, and in fact, a brief survey of lucid dreamers' accounts of their experiences will yield a vast profusion of the most ordinary kind of dreaming material -- there is almost no clamoring in the lucid dreaming community for having their best dreamers be tested as The Great Randi might suggest. I do agree that witnessing dreams is possible, but I think it's a skill that only the most adept yogi-types can be expected to have much skill in doing. I'm convinced that it is a case of what happens in meat, only happens in meat. Imagination is incredibly powerful, and the willingness to be fooled is commonplace. A good lucid dreamer should be able to completely convince any scientist in short order -- but it simply has not happened, right? Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Consider this an Edg-like rap, in the tradition of determining whether anyone here on FFL is interested in the odd things I am, and wants to swap stories. It's also a rap addressing ED's complaint that nobody ever talks about their spiritual experiences. I recently posted a rap about Lucid Dreaming. It is pasted in at the bottom of this post. What I'm inter- ested in is whether anyone on FFL has had experiences of this sort, and wants to rap about them. No experts, no dogma, just rappin'...trying to figure things out. The Rama fellow I studied with for many years taught Lucid Dreaming. He taught it in the context of Tibetan Dream Yoga, but the techniques were the same as those I've later found in Native American shamanism and other disciplines. The Tibetan connection is that in that tradition Lucid Dreaming is seen as analogous to (or synonymous with) the Bardo state between death and rebirth, and thus developing a facility with waking up in the dream,
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifuxero@ wrote: --you say, to paraphrase: (according to MMY, those are good words). But You can not get enlightened are your words, not his. He didn't often use the E word (if ever) in the context of a progression from CC - BC - UC; but he might have said something like: You can reach Unity Consciousness. That being the case, MMY's teachings would conflict with your Neo-Advaitin nonsense. Who you calling a knuckle dragging Neo-Advaitin, Buster? Them's fighten' words. Peter is obviously Advaitin, there's not an ounce of Neo in him. Just to clarify the splitting of hairs, here's an excellent description of Traditional Advaita versus Neo-Advaita: http://tinyurl.com/c8b4yw In support of Peter the Great: The range of creative intelligence is from here to here. So obviously there's no place to go. If I could go, I'd hop a bus to there. So here it is: the clown bus, the crazy passengers and the fun ride (knowledge, knower and the process of knowing) beautifully woven together as one. Innocently pull one tread in one amazing moment of just be and the mistake of intellect instantly unravels. MMY wasn't jiving us when he said the concept of a path is for the ignorant. So leave or stay on the bus, whatever, I'm just glad MMY provided [keys to the bus (TM) and] such a glorious map [SCI] to just be nowhere. raunchydog post #203856 MMY spent 99% of his time talking about, aggressively marketing, obsessing over, developing world govts to rule over, and trying to black list anything that wasn't: HIS keys to the bus and HIS roadmap, and 1% doing from here to here talk. If you look at tmo culture, how people in the tmo actually think and live, it's all keys and bus, or to be more precise, Maharishi's Supreme Vedic Golden Keys and Maharishi's Most Glorious Unified Global Enlightened Sat Yuga (with a pure gold hemi-powered) Bus, please show your paid up in full officially approved dome badge to get on. MMY is worse than the Bible; you can support anything with maharishi says talk. I don't get picking out some phrases he might have said in the 70s to disprove what he and the tmo obviously are today. That a (shocking small) percentage of long term sidhas have had from here to here advaita experiences doesn't prove anything about what MMY really taught and nurtured in his followers. Reality is from here to here, people in every spiritual movt and probably more not in any movt have these natural advaita experiences, and so naturally some MMY devotees have too. But I'd say right now there are more sidhas in ffld being blocked from that natural experience by the keys that MMY/tmo have provided.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
You can not get enlightened. This is very true. In waking state there is an experience of an individuality; a private psychological self. In waking state there is a mistaken notion that this individuality will get enlightened; that it will have some sort of enlightened experience. But the only reason a you exists is because consciousness is identified with and projected into some relative vehicle of mind and consciousness has become the object it identifies with. When consciousness becomes conscious of its own consciousness this identification is withdrawn and there is no longer a bound identity to consciousness. A you no longer exists. There is the mind, emotions and everything else, but there is no longer an identity with these vehicles. They just happen within a context of pure consciousness. They always were functioning like this, but a delusion of a you was present. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, yifuxero yifux...@yahoo.com wrote: From: yifuxero yifux...@yahoo.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 11:00 PM --you say, to paraphrase: (according to MMY, those are good words). But You can not get enlightened are your words, not his. He didn't often use the E word (if ever) in the context of a progression from CC - BC - UC; but he might have said something like: You can reach Unity Consciousness. That being the case, MMY's teachings would conflict with your Neo-Advaitin nonsense. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: Enlightenment is not what you think because: You can not get enlightened. A thought is necessarily bound by time and space and therefore has nothing to do with enlightenment. You can not model enlightenment. So with those caveats. In ignorance you are somebody. A psychological private self that relates to the world. Then you get 1st stage enlightenment and you are nobody. Actually, no you to be or not to be. Consciousness becomes conscious of its own consciousness and withdraws identity with any space/time experience. No-Self. No localization of consciousness. Weird as shit for the mind. You no longer exist, only consciousness within which everything occurs. Then you get 2nd stage enlightenment Grasshopper. Now you are everybody. Consciousness awakens to its bound value of space and time as simply consciousness. All moving within itself. From here to here through there according to Maharishi. Those are good words. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: From: Peter drpetersutp...@... Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 8:18 PM Enlightenment is not what you think. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:10 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: enlightenment is that state of consciousness in which a person no longer identifies with, and gets lost in, the objects of perception. This sounds like the I don't care anymore definition of enlightenment. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
No busts over here. Wanna try another guess? Playboys? Here? As if. Real sex is how I roll. What I do think you DO know is why you posted this. And, if you could expound on that, hey, we'd all be agog if it were done with clarity. I'm an easy target here for this kind of teasing, but far harder to see is the mechanics of how my presentation triggers responses in others. I don't mind the elbow in the ribs, but I do wonder about the motivation to have done so. Maybe I'm reading you wrongly, Larry, er, what was your intent with the post? Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Larry inmadi...@... wrote: Hey Edg, I'll have to check again tonight, but when I floated thru your office the other night, I thot for sure one of those stautues was a bust. Speaking of busts, those old Playboys you've got stashed away are a hoot. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Turq, I find it strange that you are being somewhat pro lucid dreaming when I compare that to your POV about oogabooganess in general. I've but dabbled with lucid dreaming, so I can't go toe to toe with you, but I can ask questions of you that should clarify some things for me if you honestly answer. If you truly believe that you and others were meeting in the astral or were in the same dream . . . whatever, then there's easy and scientific experiments you could conduct that would prove if such an experience is real or merely imagination. So, here's an experiment: All you have to do is come out of a lucid dream and tell what you saw in another physical location and then check to see if that is true. I have four statues on my desk, so presumably an adept at lucid dreaming should be able to hover over my desk and wake up with information about the statues. I'm betting you'll say you personally cannot do this, but it seems you'll also say that IT CAN BE DONE. I'm saying that if someone cannot pony up the correct information about my statues (or meet other such testing challenges) then astral traveling remains unproved. But you seem to be a cheerleader for the validity of the concept, and that seems at odds with your other POVs. I'm shocked that you are being such a pushover about the reports about lucid dreaming, and I'm at the same time fascinated and wanting to know how that all works inside your logic systems. Your statement about actually doing lucid dreaming that is, to you, valid, and that you are saying that almost anyone can gain this skill, makes it astounding that science hasn't nailed this phenomenon down pat by now. In fact, I would challenge ANY lucid dreamer to pass The Great Randi's test and collect his cash reward -- surely, also, the NSA and other black-op governmental wogs would be all over this ability as a threat to national security -- some terrorist should be able to dream about, what?, passwords, account numbers, conversations the President is having with top militarists, spy on any operation, etc. The whole thing stinks of scam when real world concerns would have discovered and used the ability to astral travel for many many many reasons. Where's the beef? All that said, how's 'bout this: If someone can guide their dreams, then why not simply have the intention to be enlightened, or, say, meet Krishna, or, hey, my favorite, have the dream character meditate and see what happens, cuz, in the astral, why, you're right next door to ritam levels, and the siddhis surely must be far more intense and productive etc. when one can mindfully be at that lesser state of excitation that, by definition, the astral state must be. So??? Got beef? But these things are not commonly attempted by lucid dreamers, and in fact, a brief survey of lucid dreamers' accounts of their experiences will yield a vast profusion of the most ordinary kind of dreaming material -- there is almost no clamoring in the lucid dreaming community for having their best dreamers be tested as The Great Randi might suggest. I do agree that witnessing dreams is possible, but I think it's a skill that only the most adept yogi-types can be expected to have much skill in doing. I'm convinced that it is a case of what happens in meat, only happens in meat. Imagination is incredibly powerful, and the willingness to be fooled is commonplace. A good lucid dreamer should be able to completely convince any scientist in short order -- but it simply has not happened, right? Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Consider this an Edg-like rap, in the tradition of determining whether anyone here on FFL is interested in the odd things I am, and wants to swap stories. It's also a rap addressing ED's complaint that nobody ever talks about their spiritual experiences. I recently posted a
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
lol-- i got as far as the grasshopper living among the weeds and then got lost... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: agreed-- really well said dr. pete. enlightenment is real, viable and experienced-- just not by -thinking- raunchydog, i don't get your comments at all- care to clarify please? Just jiving Peter. It's an analogy that obviously failed. It's a stretch but my point was, the grasshopper identifies with the weeds in which he lives so much so that he smokes the weed and hallucinates his existence to be something real. Sorry, I can't wrap my brain around it any further than that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: Excellent, Peter. It's exactly the map of the territory Maharishi has been telling grasshopper, identifying for years with the weeds he's been smokin'. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Enlightenment is not what you think because: You can not get enlightened. A thought is necessarily bound by time and space and therefore has nothing to do with enlightenment. You can not model enlightenment. So with those caveats. In ignorance you are somebody. A psychological private self that relates to the world. Then you get 1st stage enlightenment and you are nobody. Actually, no you to be or not to be. Consciousness becomes conscious of its own consciousness and withdraws identity with any space/time experience. No-Self. No localization of consciousness. Weird as shit for the mind. You no longer exist, only consciousness within which everything occurs. Then you get 2nd stage enlightenment Grasshopper. Now you are everybody. Consciousness awakens to its bound value of space and time as simply consciousness. All moving within itself. From here to here through there according to Maharishi. Those are good words. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: From: Peter drpetersutphen@ Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 8:18 PM Enlightenment is not what you think. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:10 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: enlightenment is that state of consciousness in which a person no longer identifies with, and gets lost in, the objects of perception. This sounds like the I don't care anymore definition of enlightenment. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
--- On Wed, 1/28/09, boo_lives boo_li...@yahoo.com wrote: From: boo_lives boo_li...@yahoo.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 12:27 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifuxero@ wrote: --you say, to paraphrase: (according to MMY, those are good words). But You can not get enlightened are your words, not his. He didn't often use the E word (if ever) in the context of a progression from CC - BC - UC; but he might have said something like: You can reach Unity Consciousness. That being the case, MMY's teachings would conflict with your Neo-Advaitin nonsense. Who you calling a knuckle dragging Neo-Advaitin, Buster? Them's fighten' words. Peter is obviously Advaitin, there's not an ounce of Neo in him. Just to clarify the splitting of hairs, here's an excellent description of Traditional Advaita versus Neo-Advaita: http://tinyurl.com/c8b4yw In support of Peter the Great: The range of creative intelligence is from here to here. So obviously there's no place to go. If I could go, I'd hop a bus to there. So here it is: the clown bus, the crazy passengers and the fun ride (knowledge, knower and the process of knowing) beautifully woven together as one. Innocently pull one tread in one amazing moment of just be and the mistake of intellect instantly unravels. MMY wasn't jiving us when he said the concept of a path is for the ignorant. So leave or stay on the bus, whatever, I'm just glad MMY provided [keys to the bus (TM) and] such a glorious map [SCI] to just be nowhere. raunchydog post #203856 MMY spent 99% of his time talking about, aggressively marketing, obsessing over, developing world govts to rule over, and trying to black list anything that wasn't: HIS keys to the bus and HIS roadmap, and 1% doing from here to here talk. If you look at tmo culture, how people in the tmo actually think and live, it's all keys and bus, or to be more precise, Maharishi's Supreme Vedic Golden Keys and Maharishi's Most Glorious Unified Global Enlightened Sat Yuga (with a pure gold hemi-powered) Bus, please show your paid up in full officially approved dome badge to get on. MMY is worse than the Bible; you can support anything with maharishi says talk. I don't get picking out some phrases he might have said in the 70s to disprove what he and the tmo obviously are today. That a (shocking small) percentage of long term sidhas have had from here to here advaita experiences doesn't prove anything about what MMY really taught and nurtured in his followers. Reality is from here to here, people in every spiritual movt and probably more not in any movt have these natural advaita experiences, and so naturally some MMY devotees have too. But I'd say right now there are more sidhas in ffld being blocked from that natural experience by the keys that MMY/tmo have provided. It is amazing that more people are not Realized in the TMO. One reason, as you imply, is that Maharishi was way too successful in creating a waking state model that explained enlightenment. People have become trapped in the model. How this happens I don't know. But about Maharishi, make no mistake about it, he was a profoundly realized being. All that other bullshit was there too. I won't deny that, but his Realization was huge. If you experienced him directly, I don't see how you could miss this infinity walking around in a human body with a pretty curious Indian businessman personality. Maharishi's presence functioned as a profound catalyst for altering the foundations of my consciousness. I don't think there ever was an encounter with him that didn't blast me into some profound state of altered consciousness. I'd be a fool to reduce my conceptual understanding of him to some sort of un-enlightened con artist. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 10:13 PM, grate. swan no_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: Yes but if you really really feel it in your gut, its true. That's how I roll. And if God talks to you, its slam dunk true. I'm sorry. I was looking over another planet. Did you summon me? Incidently, quite a number of the FFL members and I need to have a serious talk. How about let's all meet at my house before the game on Sunday? Bring the kids. Oh. And none of this puja stuff. Remember my first commandment? Oh one more thing. Keep using my name in vain and I'll make rush hour longer.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
Me, EnlightenDawn and Raunch sit around, smoking grasshopper weed and engage in mental tantric practices between the domes. Oh, by the way, many years ago I walked between the domes when everybody was flying. Oh my God! I almost got electrocuted! The energy exchange between the domes was mind blowing. One big yoni, one big lingam. Stand back! --- On Wed, 1/28/09, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 12:40 PM lol-- i got as far as the grasshopper living among the weeds and then got lost... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: agreed-- really well said dr. pete. enlightenment is real, viable and experienced-- just not by -thinking- raunchydog, i don't get your comments at all- care to clarify please? Just jiving Peter. It's an analogy that obviously failed. It's a stretch but my point was, the grasshopper identifies with the weeds in which he lives so much so that he smokes the weed and hallucinates his existence to be something real. Sorry, I can't wrap my brain around it any further than that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: Excellent, Peter. It's exactly the map of the territory Maharishi has been telling grasshopper, identifying for years with the weeds he's been smokin'. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Enlightenment is not what you think because: You can not get enlightened. A thought is necessarily bound by time and space and therefore has nothing to do with enlightenment. You can not model enlightenment. So with those caveats. In ignorance you are somebody. A psychological private self that relates to the world. Then you get 1st stage enlightenment and you are nobody. Actually, no you to be or not to be. Consciousness becomes conscious of its own consciousness and withdraws identity with any space/time experience. No-Self. No localization of consciousness. Weird as shit for the mind. You no longer exist, only consciousness within which everything occurs. Then you get 2nd stage enlightenment Grasshopper. Now you are everybody. Consciousness awakens to its bound value of space and time as simply consciousness. All moving within itself. From here to here through there according to Maharishi. Those are good words. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: From: Peter drpetersutphen@ Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 8:18 PM Enlightenment is not what you think. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:10 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: enlightenment is that state of consciousness in which a person no longer identifies with, and gets lost in, the objects of perception. This sounds like the I don't care anymore definition of enlightenment. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
On the long-shot that I was correct about the bust(s), then I could finally tell my Mom my one year at MIU paid off because it expanding my 'hunch power' If I was way off, I fall back on gentle ribbing. Since you caught me on both accounts, I apologize and won't do it again. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: No busts over here. Wanna try another guess? Playboys? Here? As if. Real sex is how I roll. What I do think you DO know is why you posted this. And, if you could expound on that, hey, we'd all be agog if it were done with clarity. I'm an easy target here for this kind of teasing, but far harder to see is the mechanics of how my presentation triggers responses in others. I don't mind the elbow in the ribs, but I do wonder about the motivation to have done so. Maybe I'm reading you wrongly, Larry, er, what was your intent with the post? Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Larry inmadison@ wrote: Hey Edg, I'll have to check again tonight, but when I floated thru your office the other night, I thot for sure one of those stautues was a bust. Speaking of busts, those old Playboys you've got stashed away are a hoot. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Turq, I find it strange that you are being somewhat pro lucid dreaming when I compare that to your POV about oogabooganess in general. I've but dabbled with lucid dreaming, so I can't go toe to toe with you, but I can ask questions of you that should clarify some things for me if you honestly answer. If you truly believe that you and others were meeting in the astral or were in the same dream . . . whatever, then there's easy and scientific experiments you could conduct that would prove if such an experience is real or merely imagination. So, here's an experiment: All you have to do is come out of a lucid dream and tell what you saw in another physical location and then check to see if that is true. I have four statues on my desk, so presumably an adept at lucid dreaming should be able to hover over my desk and wake up with information about the statues. I'm betting you'll say you personally cannot do this, but it seems you'll also say that IT CAN BE DONE. I'm saying that if someone cannot pony up the correct information about my statues (or meet other such testing challenges) then astral traveling remains unproved. But you seem to be a cheerleader for the validity of the concept, and that seems at odds with your other POVs. I'm shocked that you are being such a pushover about the reports about lucid dreaming, and I'm at the same time fascinated and wanting to know how that all works inside your logic systems. Your statement about actually doing lucid dreaming that is, to you, valid, and that you are saying that almost anyone can gain this skill, makes it astounding that science hasn't nailed this phenomenon down pat by now. In fact, I would challenge ANY lucid dreamer to pass The Great Randi's test and collect his cash reward -- surely, also, the NSA and other black-op governmental wogs would be all over this ability as a threat to national security -- some terrorist should be able to dream about, what?, passwords, account numbers, conversations the President is having with top militarists, spy on any operation, etc. The whole thing stinks of scam when real world concerns would have discovered and used the ability to astral travel for many many many reasons. Where's the beef? All that said, how's 'bout this: If someone can guide their dreams, then why not simply have the intention to be enlightened, or, say, meet Krishna, or, hey, my favorite, have the dream character meditate and see what happens, cuz, in the astral, why, you're right next door to ritam levels, and the siddhis surely must be far more intense and productive etc. when one can mindfully be at that lesser state of excitation that, by definition, the astral state must be. So??? Got beef? But these things are not commonly attempted by lucid dreamers, and in fact, a brief survey of lucid dreamers' accounts of their experiences will yield a vast profusion of the most ordinary kind of dreaming material -- there is almost no clamoring in the lucid dreaming community for having their best dreamers be tested as The Great Randi might suggest. I do agree that witnessing dreams is possible, but I think it's a skill that only the most adept yogi-types can be expected to have much skill in doing. I'm convinced that it is a case of what happens in meat, only happens in meat. Imagination is incredibly powerful, and the willingness to be fooled is commonplace. A good lucid dreamer should be able to completely convince any scientist in short order
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
On Jan 28, 2009, at 12:27 PM, boo_lives wrote: That a (shocking small) percentage of long term sidhas have had from here to here advaita experiences doesn't prove anything about what MMY really taught and nurtured in his followers. Reality is from here to here, people in every spiritual movt and probably more not in any movt have these natural advaita experiences, and so naturally some MMY devotees have too. But I'd say right now there are more sidhas in ffld being blocked from that natural experience by the keys that MMY/tmo have provided. Of course you nailed that one right on the head--and let's not forget that these are now coached advaita experiences ever since MMY presided over the course dredging for moods. People are being encouraged to moodmake their own projected feeling-tones into advaita experiences. It's the in thing I hear. Without exception, they never vary from the pre-programmed script. 'They're all actors and the Dome is their stage.'
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
Don't worry, we've set the blade extra low on the akashic landmower. On Jan 28, 2009, at 12:40 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: lol-- i got as far as the grasshopper living among the weeds and then got lost...
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: You can not get enlightened. This is very true. In waking state there is an experience of an individuality; a private psychological self. In waking state there is a mistaken notion that this individuality will get enlightened; that it will have some sort of enlightened experience. lol- yeah, one description of the way it goes down is as if you are riding an elevator upwards in waking state, convinced that the higher you get, the closer to enlightenment you are-- 27th floor, yeah! --52nd floor, wow, i am SO CLOSE! I had a witnessing experience! --93rd floor, uh-HUH!! This is almost IT! and then without warning, the floor in the elevator vanishes, and before you have a chance to even think about grabbing onto something, you are falling, and falling and falling, and falling, and falling. falling away into nothingness, falling away into freedom, and lest i say it? unboundedness... But the only reason a you exists is because consciousness is identified with and projected into some relative vehicle of mind and consciousness has become the object it identifies with. When consciousness becomes conscious of its own consciousness this identification is withdrawn and there is no longer a bound identity to consciousness. A you no longer exists. There is the mind, emotions and everything else, but there is no longer an identity with these vehicles. They just happen within a context of pure consciousness. They always were functioning like this, but a delusion of a you was present. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, yifuxero yifux...@... wrote: From: yifuxero yifux...@... Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 11:00 PM --you say, to paraphrase: (according to MMY, those are good words). But You can not get enlightened are your words, not his. He didn't often use the E word (if ever) in the context of a progression from CC - BC - UC; but he might have said something like: You can reach Unity Consciousness. That being the case, MMY's teachings would conflict with your Neo-Advaitin nonsense. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Enlightenment is not what you think because: You can not get enlightened. A thought is necessarily bound by time and space and therefore has nothing to do with enlightenment. You can not model enlightenment. So with those caveats. In ignorance you are somebody. A psychological private self that relates to the world. Then you get 1st stage enlightenment and you are nobody. Actually, no you to be or not to be. Consciousness becomes conscious of its own consciousness and withdraws identity with any space/time experience. No-Self. No localization of consciousness. Weird as shit for the mind. You no longer exist, only consciousness within which everything occurs. Then you get 2nd stage enlightenment Grasshopper. Now you are everybody. Consciousness awakens to its bound value of space and time as simply consciousness. All moving within itself. From here to here through there according to Maharishi. Those are good words. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: From: Peter drpetersutphen@ Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 8:18 PM Enlightenment is not what you think. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:10 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: enlightenment is that state of consciousness in which a person no longer identifies with, and gets lost in, the objects of perception. This sounds like the I don't care anymore definition of enlightenment. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe,
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
and you know this, monkey, from your VAST EXPERIENCE with TM, right??? lets see, 4 years worth according to you, several decades ago...yup, qualifies for a banana... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jan 28, 2009, at 12:27 PM, boo_lives wrote: That a (shocking small) percentage of long term sidhas have had from here to here advaita experiences doesn't prove anything about what MMY really taught and nurtured in his followers. Reality is from here to here, people in every spiritual movt and probably more not in any movt have these natural advaita experiences, and so naturally some MMY devotees have too. But I'd say right now there are more sidhas in ffld being blocked from that natural experience by the keys that MMY/tmo have provided. Of course you nailed that one right on the head--and let's not forget that these are now coached advaita experiences ever since MMY presided over the course dredging for moods. People are being encouraged to moodmake their own projected feeling-tones into advaita experiences. It's the in thing I hear. Without exception, they never vary from the pre-programmed script. 'They're all actors and the Dome is their stage.'
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: It is amazing that more people are not Realized in the TMO. One reason, as you imply, is that Maharishi was way too successful in creating a waking state model that explained enlightenment. People have become trapped in the model. How this happens I don't know. But about Maharishi, make no mistake about it, he was a profoundly realized being. All that other bullshit was there too. I won't deny that, but his Realization was huge. If you experienced him directly, I don't see how you could miss this infinity walking around in a human body with a pretty curious Indian businessman personality. Maharishi's presence functioned as a profound catalyst for altering the foundations of my consciousness. I don't think there ever was an encounter with him that didn't blast me into some profound state of altered consciousness. I'd be a fool to reduce my conceptual understanding of him to some sort of un-enlightened con artist. i think you have something there, that in his attempts to wake people up to the allure of enlightened life, MMY brought out so much knowledge that seekers burrow into it as a comfy cocoon, or get lost in argument over the myriad details of it all, rather than use it as a chrysalis for enlightenment.
[FairfieldLife] [FairfieldLife] Re: More defications of enlightenment
The general public cares 'shit' about enlightenment compared to love and 'economic survival'. Interesting to see the excitement over this word here! Rare is it to see any group, especially Christian, evolved enough to inquire about this 'type of salvation'. Seems Christians would like to hear about this phenomenon while in Heaven. Do 'enlightened people' watch football? What proportion of women are enlightened relative to men, and in whose opinion? Arhata --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Peter drpetersutphen@ ... wrote: You can not get enlightened. This is very true. In waking state there is an experience of an individuality; a private psychological self. In waking state there is a mistaken notion that this individuality will get enlightened; that it will have some sort of enlightened experience. lol- yeah, one description of the way it goes down is as if you are riding an elevator upwards in waking state, convinced that the higher you get, the closer to enlightenment you are-- 27th floor, yeah! --52nd floor, wow, i am SO CLOSE! I had a witnessing experience! --93rd floor, uh-HUH!! This is almost IT! and then without warning, the floor in the elevator vanishes, and before you have a chance to even think about grabbing onto something, you are falling, and falling and falling, and falling, and falling. falling away into nothingness, falling away into freedom, and lest i say it? unboundedness. .. But the only reason a you exists is because consciousness is identified with and projected into some relative vehicle of mind and consciousness has become the object it identifies with. When consciousness becomes conscious of its own consciousness this identification is withdrawn and there is no longer a bound identity to consciousness. A you no longer exists. There is the mind, emotions and everything else, but there is no longer an identity with these vehicles. They just happen within a context of pure consciousness. They always were functioning like this, but a delusion of a you was present. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, yifuxero yifux...@.. . wrote: From: yifuxero yifux...@.. . Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 11:00 PM --you say, to paraphrase: (according to MMY, those are good words). But You can not get enlightened are your words, not his. He didn't often use the E word (if ever) in the context of a progression from CC - BC - UC; but he might have said something like: You can reach Unity Consciousness . That being the case, MMY's teachings would conflict with your Neo-Advaitin nonsense. - In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Enlightenment is not what you think because: You can not get enlightened. A thought is necessarily bound by time and space and therefore has nothing to do with enlightenment. You can not model enlightenment. So with those caveats. In ignorance you are somebody. A psychological private self that relates to the world. Then you get 1st stage enlightenment and you are nobody. Actually, no you to be or not to be. Consciousness becomes conscious of its own consciousness and withdraws identity with any space/time experience. No-Self. No localization of consciousness. Weird as shit for the mind. You no longer exist, only consciousness within which everything occurs. Then you get 2nd stage enlightenment Grasshopper. Now you are everybody. Consciousness awakens to its bound value of space and time as simply consciousness. All moving within itself. From here to here through there according to Maharishi. Those are good words. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: From: Peter drpetersutphen@ Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 8:18 PM Enlightenment is not what you think. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroup s.com wrote: From: ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroup s.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:10 PM --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, enlightened_ dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: enlightenment is that state of consciousness in which a person no longer identifies with, and gets lost in, the objects of perception. This sounds like the I don't care anymore definition of enlightenment.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: If you played poker in the astral with your buddies, and they all said the next day that they had had the same experience and considered it true to say we were actually in each other's presense, actually had really experiences, actually could map point for point our get-together, then I say, you're making a statement about laws of physics of the real world, and it's simply too powerful a statement to go unchallenged, since it represents a siddhi of immense worth to the real world. What's the worth? We were in a DREAM, dude? :-) It was DREAM poker. Yes, we all laughed about it IN the dream, and the next day, OUT of the dream, comparing notes, but that has no worth. You can challenge it all you want. I can laugh at your challenge -- and at you -- all I want. Now THAT is real world. :-) I suspect you'd back off saying that the poker playing was an actual event and that all of the participants were merely imagining up the scenario with a high degree of synchronicity like that. If you are going to contend that the event really happened, then extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. *Of course* it really happened. For *all* of us. In a DREAM. Prove to me that the things that happened in *your* dreams last night really happened. I'll wait. :-) To me, the big tell about your report is that you feign an indifference to the truth that might be easily revealed by experimentation. Sure sounds like the TMO research attitude to me. It's like you're saying, Yeah, I astral travel for real, but the obvious advantages of such an ability don't interest me. First, Edg, you *really* need to learn the difference between astral travel and going to different places in dreams. What happens in dreams *happens in dreams*. What I've heard about astral travel is usually initiated from the waking state and claims to have gone to these place *in the waking state* and being able to describe what's going on there in the waking state, in real time. I made no such claims. I went to places IN DREAMS and described what happened there IN THE DREAMS. Apples and oranges. Don't be so fuckin' ignorant. As for my indifference, you DAMN BETCHA I am indif- ferent. They were DREAMS, dude. The nature of dreams is *subjective*. I don't CARE about your seemingly psychotic need for proof about my DREAMS. Get a life. If I were involved in trying to sell courses in lucid dreaming, or if I were involved in trying to convince you of anything or change your mind about anything, you might have a reason to be so demanding of proof. I'm not. You're just going a little crazy, that's all. We've all seen you do it before, and we'll see you do it again. As for your attitude of being indignant about my post... I am NOT indignant at your post. I am LAUGHING at you, and trying to get you to laugh at yourself. ...well at least you're consistent and take everything I write about you in the worst possible way. I find some interest in how well you're able to find yourself being wronged by me; it's a study of your denial and meanness skills. But I tire of it, dude, honest. I notice you have not admitted that pretty much everything you wronged me with was *made up*. You don't seem all that tired to me. :-) You are being LAUGHABLE, Edg. You're cuckoo, over the top, several cans short of a six-pack. I'm just trying to point that out so you'll lighten up and learn to *notice* when you go crazy like this. In this day of Obamaficational good intentions, maybe your can mood make yourself to a higher intention to speak the sweet truth. The sweet truth is that your outrage exists only in your own head. You know, like the outrage you spouted for months about me being a predator existed only in your own head. YOU MAKE SHIT UP, EDG. And then you get *outraged* about the shit you make up. I'm just trying to help you realize this, so you won't come off as so much of a buffoon. I'm trying over here, honest. Not that this post is a good example of such, since you did prong me enough to get negative on your ass. Edg, the ONLY thing I did to prong you was to write honestly about my personal experiences. Your decision to go negative was based entirely on your own overreaction to hearing those exper- iences. I wasn't trying to sell you anything; I wasn't trying to convince you of anything. You decided to go crazy ALL ON YOUR OWN. So fuck your attitude and fuck you for bashing me gratuitously when I'm trying to make nice here and simply have an exchange of some worth with you. Poor, poor, victimized Edg. You bash the shit out of me, over stuff that EXISTS ONLY IN YOUR HEAD, and you portray that as making nice. You're not only a little crazy, Edg, you are hypocritically crazy. Learn to laugh at yourself, dude. Everyone else is. You'll feel better if you join in with the laughter. Seems you're still smarting from my many
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jan 28, 2009, at 12:27 PM, boo_lives wrote: That a (shocking small) percentage of long term sidhas have had from here to here advaita experiences doesn't prove anything about what MMY really taught and nurtured in his followers. Reality is from here to here, people in every spiritual movt and probably more not in any movt have these natural advaita experiences, and so naturally some MMY devotees have too. But I'd say right now there are more sidhas in ffld being blocked from that natural experience by the keys that MMY/tmo have provided. Of course you nailed that one right on the head--and let's not forget that these are now coached advaita experiences ever since MMY presided over the course dredging for moods. People are being encouraged to moodmake their own projected feeling-tones into advaita experiences. It's the in thing I hear. Without exception, they never vary from the pre-programmed script. 'They're all actors and the Dome is their stage.' Could you say more about the script - I'm curious what flavor of enlightenment experience has gotten the approval. Is it still going on now that mmy is gone? Who listens to the experience? Are they using typical tmo buzzwords or are there new buzzwords? I'd heard quite a while ago that thmds were giving experiences to mmy most every day and it was a big thing - to come up with an experience that gets the ok from mmy is big currency on thmd (though not as big as real currency) and it seemed women were really working on and fretting over the wording of their experience flavors hoping it would get a positive response. I'm curious about the buzzwords because I believe there is a high percentage of deflected kundalini shakti risings on thmd and I wonder if mmy, most likely another deflected, likes those type of experiences or some other?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
On Jan 28, 2009, at 1:02 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: and you know this, monkey, from your VAST EXPERIENCE with TM, right??? lets see, 4 years worth according to you, several decades ago...yup, qualifies for a banana... Four years? Not according to me!
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
--Thx raunch. I like you. Short of defining them, it's easier to say that Neo-Advaitins focus solely on Being or whatever term they use (perhaps the Self); but without giving an account of their transition through the relative layers of existence and diminishing the importance of everything relative. MMY was clearly a 200%-er, not a 100%-er. Definitions would be less productive now that simply listing some of the chronic/acute Neo- Advaitins: Eckart Tolle, Wayne Liquorman, Ramesh Balsekar, Nisargadatta Maharaj...the list goes on and on. A quick google search will uncover about 100 of them. The Neo-Advaitins say you are already Enlightened. (nonsense!) They spend a lot of time in Satsangs saying Yet are Enlightened!; and criticize others whose opinions differ by saying their opponents are monkey minds. MMY presented a package deal of progressive evolution, the focus being CC, GC, and UC. To Neo-Advaitins, progressivism is out of the picture and irrelevant. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifuxero@ wrote: --you say, to paraphrase: (according to MMY, those are good words). But You can not get enlightened are your words, not his. He didn't often use the E word (if ever) in the context of a progression from CC - BC - UC; but he might have said something like: You can reach Unity Consciousness. That being the case, MMY's teachings would conflict with your Neo-Advaitin nonsense. Who you calling a knuckle dragging Neo-Advaitin, Buster? Them's fighten' words. Peter is obviously Advaitin, there's not an ounce of Neo in him. Just to clarify the splitting of hairs, here's an excellent description of Traditional Advaita versus Neo-Advaita: http://tinyurl.com/c8b4yw In support of Peter the Great: The range of creative intelligence is from here to here. So obviously there's no place to go. If I could go, I'd hop a bus to there. So here it is: the clown bus, the crazy passengers and the fun ride (knowledge, knower and the process of knowing) beautifully woven together as one. Innocently pull one tread in one amazing moment of just be and the mistake of intellect instantly unravels. MMY wasn't jiving us when he said the concept of a path is for the ignorant. So leave or stay on the bus, whatever, I'm just glad MMY provided [keys to the bus (TM) and] such a glorious map [SCI] to just be nowhere. raunchydog post #203856
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
Men who extol 'enlightenment talk' are rarely not on 'hallucinogenics' and never
have adequate personal love experience worth talking about.
Arhata
http://www.freedomofspeech.netfirms.com/
--- On Wed, 1/28/09, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
From: enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 4:56 PM
agreed-- really well said dr. pete. enlightenment is real, viable
and experienced- - just not by -thinking-
raunchydog, i don't get your comments at all- care to clarify please?
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, raunchydog raunchydog@ ...
wrote:
Excellent, Peter. It's exactly the map of the territory Maharishi
has
been telling grasshopper, identifying for years with the weeds he's
been smokin'.
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Peter drpetersutphen@
wrote:
Enlightenment is not what you think because:
You can not get enlightened.
A thought is necessarily bound by time and space and therefore
has
nothing to do with enlightenment.
You can not model enlightenment.
So with those caveats.
In ignorance you are somebody. A psychological private self that
relates to the world.
Then you get 1st stage enlightenment and you are nobody.
Actually,
no you to be or not to be. Consciousness becomes conscious of its
own consciousness and withdraws identity with any space/time
experience. No-Self. No localization of consciousness. Weird as
shit
for the mind. You no longer exist, only consciousness within
which
everything occurs.
Then you get 2nd stage enlightenment Grasshopper. Now you are
everybody. Consciousness awakens to its bound value of space and
time
as simply consciousness. All moving within itself. From here to
here
through there according to Maharishi. Those are good words.
--- On Tue, 1/27/09, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote:
From: Peter drpetersutphen@
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of
enlightenment
To: FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 8:18 PM
Enlightenment is not what you think.
--- On Tue, 1/27/09, ruthsimplicity
no_re...@yahoogroup s.com wrote:
From: ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroup s.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of
enlightenment
To: FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:10 PM
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com,
enlightened_ dawn11
no_reply@ wrote:
enlightenment is that state of consciousness in
which
a person no
longer identifies with, and gets lost in, the
objects
of perception.
This sounds like the I don't care
anymore
definition of enlightenment.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: A reply to Vaj about Mantras, Religion, etc.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: So, what specifically did MMY say concerning the vibration of the mantras? that they were life supporting is about all i recall. that by repeating the mantra silently like any other thought, the mind trasnscends until it reaches its ground state, no thought, absolute being. i am sure an intro lecture could do this far better justice than i can. experience is the key vs. collecting information endlessly. I was looking for something more specific referring to vibrations. Wondering what he meant, if he said it at all, by vibration.
[FairfieldLife] Monkeys vs Meat (Re: Mantras, Religion and finally a statement . . .)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: various manifestations of the sidhis themselves. they produced results for me as taught. Such as?
[FairfieldLife] US Civil Engineers rate the US infrastructure a D
I was hoping that The One would get us to bite the bullet and replace and build out our crumbling infrastructure but he's going to do very little, most of it tax cuts ,which are a very good idea because they act quickly, and symbols. What little his stimulus bill will do beyond tax cuts is aimed at his misguided idea that if we just insulate here and there and build cars that get hundreds of miles to the gallon (yeah, right), we'll all be in great shape. That's not exactly the way Brazil, which is energy independent, did it. But why look to other countries for examples? http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/28/news/economy/infrastructure_report_card/index.htm?postversion=2009012811 http://tinyurl.com/c7p2f7
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jan 28, 2009, at 1:02 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: and you know this, monkey, from your VAST EXPERIENCE with TM, right??? lets see, 4 years worth according to you, several decades ago...yup, qualifies for a banana... Four years? Not according to me! your post 205746 Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: PAUL MCCARTNEY CONCERT and Consciousness-based Education ... are they may be the future of school based meditation, esp. since good, solid research backs them up. I too did TM throughout college and I'd have to say it's primary benefit was 20 min. of rest, two times a day...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:18 PM, TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: So we never leave the dream world. We lived a dream world in the TMO and we left to live in an even dreamier world? I'm going back to the Self.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: Consider this an Edg-like rap, in the tradition of determining whether anyone here on FFL is interested in the odd things I am, and wants to swap stories. It's also a rap addressing ED's complaint that nobody ever talks about their spiritual experiences. Only fools and inexperienced souls like The Turq would consider dreams and astral travel spiritual experiences. Yet he does, thus demonstrating his spiritual naivite. It's not spiritual, these are harmless experiences for many, many people, often born from lack of mind-body coordination and often due to the over-use of drugs. For some Buddhists like Vaj and The Turq a simple out outofthebody- experience will be spiritual. For TM-er's this is a field of astral tricks long ago transcended.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
On Jan 28, 2009, at 1:23 PM, boo_lives wrote: Of course you nailed that one right on the head--and let's not forget that these are now coached advaita experiences ever since MMY presided over the course dredging for moods. People are being encouraged to moodmake their own projected feeling-tones into advaita experiences. It's the in thing I hear. Without exception, they never vary from the pre-programmed script. 'They're all actors and the Dome is their stage.' Could you say more about the script - I'm curious what flavor of enlightenment experience has gotten the approval. Is it still going on now that mmy is gone? Who listens to the experience? Are they using typical tmo buzzwords or are there new buzzwords? It used to be when MMY would listen in at the dome, people spoke at the microphone and gave experiences. He praised some experiences and so that was what people learned to provide. I'd heard quite a while ago that thmds were giving experiences to mmy most every day and it was a big thing - to come up with an experience that gets the ok from mmy is big currency on thmd (though not as big as real currency) and it seemed women were really working on and fretting over the wording of their experience flavors hoping it would get a positive response. I'm curious about the buzzwords because I believe there is a high percentage of deflected kundalini shakti risings on thmd and I wonder if mmy, most likely another deflected, likes those type of experiences or some other? 'I am the Eternal' could probably tell you more, I think they were calling it 'the one' experience or something like that. He's shared some humorous examples. I think there are a lot of deflected risings in long term sidhas period. In deflected arisings my limited insight (not being on IAC) seems to indicate you're right, it's normal to have some kinds of experience like advaitic glimpses or even bipolar type manifestations and these are what MMY was coaching. But cultivation of siddhis does naturally favor that style of rising anyway. Sidhi practice seems to directly stimulate the cerebral cortex in some way that it follows an unusual path neurologically. Such deflected risings are of great benefit as these type of people stick around forever and even if they do leave the overall group are programmed parroters, like out of a TM brochure or an SCI tape.
[FairfieldLife] Monkeys vs Meat (Re: Mantras, Religion and finally a statement . . .)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: various manifestations of the sidhis themselves. they produced results for me as taught. Such as? you'll just have to try them and see. each formula is targeted at a specific result.
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
c'mon monkey, you're just making shit up to fit your prejudices-- the reason no one tells you anything except the crumbs you can find scampering under the table is that you're too full of yourself to even hear it. have a banana and stfu. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jan 28, 2009, at 1:23 PM, boo_lives wrote: Of course you nailed that one right on the head--and let's not forget that these are now coached advaita experiences ever since MMY presided over the course dredging for moods. People are being encouraged to moodmake their own projected feeling-tones into advaita experiences. It's the in thing I hear. Without exception, they never vary from the pre-programmed script. 'They're all actors and the Dome is their stage.' Could you say more about the script - I'm curious what flavor of enlightenment experience has gotten the approval. Is it still going on now that mmy is gone? Who listens to the experience? Are they using typical tmo buzzwords or are there new buzzwords? It used to be when MMY would listen in at the dome, people spoke at the microphone and gave experiences. He praised some experiences and so that was what people learned to provide. I'd heard quite a while ago that thmds were giving experiences to mmy most every day and it was a big thing - to come up with an experience that gets the ok from mmy is big currency on thmd (though not as big as real currency) and it seemed women were really working on and fretting over the wording of their experience flavors hoping it would get a positive response. I'm curious about the buzzwords because I believe there is a high percentage of deflected kundalini shakti risings on thmd and I wonder if mmy, most likely another deflected, likes those type of experiences or some other? 'I am the Eternal' could probably tell you more, I think they were calling it 'the one' experience or something like that. He's shared some humorous examples. I think there are a lot of deflected risings in long term sidhas period. In deflected arisings my limited insight (not being on IAC) seems to indicate you're right, it's normal to have some kinds of experience like advaitic glimpses or even bipolar type manifestations and these are what MMY was coaching. But cultivation of siddhis does naturally favor that style of rising anyway. Sidhi practice seems to directly stimulate the cerebral cortex in some way that it follows an unusual path neurologically. Such deflected risings are of great benefit as these type of people stick around forever and even if they do leave the overall group are programmed parroters, like out of a TM brochure or an SCI tape.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Memories grow sweeter with time?
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:56 AM, cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: In Finnish we say Aika kultaa muistot. (Time guilds memories.)[1] Just checked that out, the corresponding English expression seems to be Memories grow sweeter with time. My memories seem to grow more bitter and depressing. Almost everything I can recall from my past life during this incarnation (provided reincarnation is true...) seems to have some kind of negative emotional connotation. I suspect the better English expression you seek is time heals all wounds. There is much power in Maharishi's saying that what you place your attention on will grow and in Maharishi's term mood making. I have picked myself up from being testy, grumpy, angry and feeling robbed in life to having people in shops, restaurants, wherever be attracted to me because I radiate love, joy, bliss and optimism. Life is exciting and wonderful and it gets better each day. What am I doing? I am following Rhonda Byrne's advice to write down, in a thankful and grateful mood 100 things that you are thankful and grateful for each day. I have found that the time I spend doing this each day has become a more and more powerful drug to me. I look forward to the time in which I'll sit down to write. And each day I'm filled with more and more bliss and joy as I write. Also, I'm noticing that more wonderful things happen in my life and fewer and that there are fewer unhappy things. The brain isn't just about sensations, motor and facts. It's about emotions. We have state dependent learning, state dependent recall. There are states of intoxication but even more there is the state of happiness. We can decide what we'll recall but even more than that we can decide what new happy things will come to us to store away in memory.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A reply to Vaj about Mantras, Religion, etc.
On Jan 28, 2009, at 12:34 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: So, what specifically did MMY say concerning the vibration of the mantras? that they were life supporting is about all i recall. that by repeating the mantra silently like any other thought, the mind trasnscends until it reaches its ground state, no thought, absolute being. i am sure an intro lecture could do this far better justice than i can. experience is the key vs. collecting information endlessly. I was looking for something more specific referring to vibrations. Wondering what he meant, if he said it at all, by vibration. I think he meant Good Vibrations, Ruth. He was a closet Beachboys fan. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: Jumping in. I've never had any instruction on how to control lucid dreams, have no intention intention to do so, but find that I can if I want to. If lucid dreaming spontaneously occurs, it sometimes happens in the dome during rest after program. If I had a particularly blissful program, during rest, maybe it's kundalini, I don't really know, but it feels like my crown chakra is plugged into a light socket. Here's the re-occurring sequence: I'm resting, my eyes are closed but I see everything and everyone in the dome. I start to fly above everyone and can control where I go and what I see. As I rise higher above everyone I can fly anywhere, over roof tops, into the clouds, to the moon, the stars, the sun, wherever. The longer I fly the move intense the feeling of electricity flooding my brain. Sometimes I hear choirs of angels and I can direct the music. Sometimes, I see Maharishi or Guru Dev or a bright light that looks like me looking back at me or a third eye right in front of my third eye, but more like an elephant eye, like Ganesha and I can decide to observe it. I don't know what it means and I don't care. I take a neutral attitude toward it and I just enjoy it when it happens. Some might call my experience astral travel but on this subject I do remember Maharishi cautioning We don't leave the house if it isn't clean. If I am astral traveling hopefully, my house is clean enough that I can leave it for a few minutes without having uninvited guests showing up. I like that you say I don't care because these experiences belong to the gap between the relative and the absolute, they are as such not interesting but for the personality to enjoy temporarily. They are a an amusing by-product of what you just experienced in Programme. Whereas for people like the Turq or Vaj (who never did TMSP in the first place) these little things are paramount and very interesting. I was present when someone presented a similar story as yours, in Seelisberg. Maharishi did not caution the fellow but rather said that since you already are the universe he could roam wherever he wanted without fear. You are certainly clean. Have no fears. Enjoy ! Jai Guru Dev
Re: [FairfieldLife] Monkeys vs Meat (Re: Mantras, Religion and finally a statement . . .)
On Jan 28, 2009, at 12:35 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: various manifestations of the sidhis themselves. they produced results for me as taught. Such as? Clarity of thought, sincerity, honesty, friendliness, compassion...you know, all the qualities ED demonstrates so well here. :) Sal
[FairfieldLife] The Ramayana
To All: In this book, we find a story of a race of monkeys who helped Rama defeat Ravana and his ilk. Since this story is supposedly millions of years old, is it possible that these monkies were the Neanderthals that existed eons of years ago? Or, from the level of symbolism, do these monkies actually represent certain humans who have not learned to develop their consciousness, or those who have not reached the true human potential? JR
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Consider this an Edg-like rap, in the tradition of determining whether anyone here on FFL is interested in the odd things I am, and wants to swap stories. It's also a rap addressing ED's complaint that nobody ever talks about their spiritual experiences. Only fools and inexperienced souls like The Turq would consider dreams and astral travel spiritual experiences. Yet he does, thus demonstrating his spiritual naivite. It's not spiritual, these are harmless experiences for many, many people, often born from lack of mind-body coordination and often due to the over-use of drugs. For some Buddhists like Vaj and The Turq a simple out outofthebody- experience will be spiritual. For TM-er's this is a field of astral tricks long ago transcended. Just to add; for some souls these experiences goes on for many, many years and they are real and not tricks. In my experience, and that of many others they will wane, being overtaken by a situation of Heaven on Earth where both realities are expeienced simultaneously.
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: You can not get enlightened. This is very true. In waking state there is an experience of an individuality; a private psychological self. In waking state there is a mistaken notion that this individuality will get enlightened; that it will have some sort of enlightened experience. lol- yeah, one description of the way it goes down is as if you are riding an elevator upwards in waking state, convinced that the higher you get, the closer to enlightenment you are-- 27th floor, yeah! --52nd floor, wow, i am SO CLOSE! I had a witnessing experience! --93rd floor, uh-HUH!! This is almost IT! and then without warning, the floor in the elevator vanishes, and before you have a chance to even think about grabbing onto something, you are falling, and falling and falling, and falling, and falling. falling away into nothingness, falling away into freedom, and lest i say it? unboundedness... Sounds awful. What's desirable about that?
[FairfieldLife] With no job and 5 kids, 'better to end our lives,' man wrote
Sorry to butt in on y'all's lucid dreaming, but... http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/01/28/family.dead.california/index.html http://tinyurl.com/d8javj
[FairfieldLife] Monkeys vs Meat (Re: Mantras, Religion and finally a statement . . .)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: On Jan 28, 2009, at 12:35 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: various manifestations of the sidhis themselves. they produced results for me as taught. Such as? Clarity of thought, sincerity, honesty, friendliness, compassion...you know, all the qualities ED demonstrates so well here. :) Sal wow-- monkey see, monkey do, eh Sal? here, have a banana! in all clarity, sincerity, and honesty, i made a point about not spewing crap, as monkeys do, when you have no, or very dated, experience regarding the subject discussed, which was at the time the practice of TM. and for that, you and others in your troupe are chattering away, flinging poo, and hopping from branch to branch. and that is supposed to set the standard for behavior here on FFL? dream on, my darling little monkey, dream on.
[FairfieldLife] Monkeys vs Meat (Re: Mantras, Religion and finally a statement . . .)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: On Jan 28, 2009, at 12:35 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: various manifestations of the sidhis themselves. they produced results for me as taught. Such as? Clarity of thought, sincerity, honesty, friendliness, compassion...you know, all the qualities ED demonstrates so well here. :) Sal Guffaw!
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ramayana
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: To All: In this book, we find a story of a race of monkeys who helped Rama defeat Ravana and his ilk. Since this story is supposedly millions of years old, is it possible that these monkies were the Neanderthals that existed eons of years ago? Or, from the level of symbolism, do these monkies actually represent certain humans who have not learned to develop their consciousness, or those who have not reached the true human potential? enlightened_dawn should pay attention to this. According to John, this million-year-old book portrays monkeys as willing partners in genocide. They fought alongside Rama for eighteen months, until every member of the clan they decided had to be wiped from the face of the planet was dead. Some commentaries on the Ramayana say that this clan numbered over 100,000 people (the entire population of modern-day Sri Lanka), before Rama decided in his Infinite Wisdom that they needed to be exterminated. I understand that you've been saying that in your view monkeys are warm and fuzzy and cuddly, and thus that's what you have in mind when you call people on this forum monkeys. But now you know the Truth, as revealed by this Holy Million-Year- Old Book. And as John has told us many, many times, this work is part of the Vedic Literature that is synonymous with Eternal Truth. Thus, according to this book of Eternal Truth, modern-day monkeys are most likely descended from their counterparts in the Ramayana, who were practitioners of genocide. Maybe you'd do better by calling the people who don't accept what *you* are saying as Eternal Truth koala bears instead. They're warm and fuzzy and cuddly, too, and they don't have a history of genocide. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ramayana
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: To All: In this book, we find a story of a race of monkeys who helped Rama defeat Ravana and his ilk. Since this story is supposedly millions of years old, is it possible that these monkies were the Neanderthals that existed eons of years ago? Or, from the level of symbolism, do these monkies actually represent certain humans who have not learned to develop their consciousness, or those who have not reached the true human potential? JR You sound like a Christian fundamentalist trying to legitimize the Noah's Ark story.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Monkeys vs Meat (Re: Mantras, Religion and finally a statement . . .)
On Jan 28, 2009, at 1:51 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rf...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Jan 28, 2009, at 12:35 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: various manifestations of the sidhis themselves. they produced results for me as taught. Such as? Clarity of thought, sincerity, honesty, friendliness, compassion...you know, all the qualities ED demonstrates so well here. :) Guffaw! Now, now, do. Those same qualities were the same as the ones that Jim Flanegin (Sandy Ego) demonstrated, and we all know that *he* was enlightened. Right? Right? Maybe ED is similarly enlightened. I notice that there has been no reply to the post in which I asked. I think she's still trying to recover from that horrendous elevator fall. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Monkeys vs Meat (Re: Mantras, Religion and finally a statement . . .)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rf...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Jan 28, 2009, at 12:35 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: various manifestations of the sidhis themselves. they produced results for me as taught. Such as? Clarity of thought, sincerity, honesty, friendliness, compassion...you know, all the qualities ED demonstrates so well here. :) Guffaw! Now, now, do. Those same qualities were the same as the ones that Jim Flanegin (Sandy Ego) demonstrated, and we all know that *he* was enlightened. Right? Right? Maybe ED is similarly enlightened. I notice that there has been no reply to the post in which I asked.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net wrote: Of course you nailed that one right on the head--and let's not forget that these are now *coached* advaita experiences ever since MMY presided over the course dredging for moods. People are being encouraged to moodmake their own projected feeling-tones into advaita experiences. It's the in thing I hear. Without exception, they never vary from the pre-programmed script. 'They're all actors and the Dome is their stage.' This definitely goes on in with the THP and THMD, whose experiences, incidently, are not read by the person having them. It is considerably less so (I re-read my own experiences every so often) in the two domes on campus. There there is an amazing amount of heart and none of this let's use as many of the words Maharishi taught us in his final year in every sentence in the experiences.
[FairfieldLife] WILL OBAMA EXECUTIVE ORDER TRIP UP ROVE?*
When Conyers subpoenaed Rove last year, Bush lawyers invoked executive immunity to stop Rove from testifying. But now Bush is no longer president. = Hi Team! *? 2 ALL: WILL OBAMA EXECUTIVE ORDER TRIP UP ROVE?* The Attorney General and the Counsel to the President, Obama said in an executive order Jan. 21, in the exercise of their discretion and after appropriate review and consultation under subsection (a) of this section, may jointly determine that invocation of executive privilege is not justified, The Archivist shall be notified promptly of any such determination. Do you think this Obama executive order will trip up Rove? Why or why not? Greg Dempsey http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/SECULARHUM ANIST Obama - A New Beginning = Obama order could present problems for Rove John Byrne Published: Tuesday January 27, 2009 A little-noticed twist in an order issued by President Barack Obama the day after his inauguration may present problems for former White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove and other Bush Administration officials that have been targeted for their alleged role in various scandals. Rove was subpoenaed Monday afternoon by House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers (D-MI). Determination of executive privilege must now also be examined by President Obama's lawyers. In fact, Rove's lawyer made direct reference to Obama's role in any future decision to enjoin Rove's appearance on the congressional witness stand Monday night. It's generally agreed that former presidents retain executive privilege as to matters occurring during their term, Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, told The Washington Post. We'll solicit the views of the new White House counsel and, if there is a disagreement, assume that the matter will be resolved among the courts, the president and the former president. Luskin doesn't concede that Rove isn't covered by Bush's blanket immunity, but appears to acknowledge that the question of keeping Rove off the witness stand has become more complex. In addition, a White House counsel to President Bill Clinton told The Washington Post late Monday that a recent executive order issued by President Obama directing the National Archives to consult with Justice Department and White House lawyers concerning the Archivist's determination as to whether to honor the former president's claim of privilege or instead to disclose the presidential records notwithstanding the claim of privilege, could open the door to the release of more information relating to controversies under the Bush Administration. The language, the Post wrote, according to W. Neil Eggleston, a White House associate counsel during the Clinton administration, leaves open the possibility that more information could emerge in some long-running controversies. Whether Rove can stay off the witness stand indefinitely is an open question. He could certainly plead the Fifth -- invoking his constitutional right to avoid self-incrimination -- and refuse to answer questions. But Obama's order opened the door to the release of presidential records the Bush Administration fought aggressively to keep out of the public eye. On the flip side, Vice President Dick Cheney recently won a court case seeking his vice presidential records; the court said that the Vice President alone gets to make the determination as to which records are personal and which records should become public. The Presidential Records Act, which requires Administrations to surrender their files to the National Archives upon leaving office, provides an exemption for records of a personal nature. Obama might also effectively protect Rove and President Bush by retaining a broad interpretation of executive privilege. Such an interpretation wouldn't be designed to save Rove from congressional investigators -- instead, it would allow Obama to protect himself and his team upon his own departure from the Oval Office.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:23 PM, boo_lives boo_li...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: Could you say more about the script - I'm curious what flavor of enlightenment experience has gotten the approval. Is it still going on now that mmy is gone? Who listens to the experience? Are they using typical tmo buzzwords or are there new buzzwords? I'd heard quite a while ago that thmds were giving experiences to mmy most every day and it was a big thing - to come up with an experience that gets the ok from mmy is big currency on thmd (though not as big as real currency) and it seemed women were really working on and fretting over the wording of their experience flavors hoping it would get a positive response. I'm curious about the buzzwords because I believe there is a high percentage of deflected kundalini shakti risings on thmd and I wonder if mmy, most likely another deflected, likes those type of experiences or some other? Been there, done that, plan to go back and do it again. There is no script given to the IA CPs. There is no script. However TMO people will be TMO people. What's expected is that you'll relate a #1 (Unity or beyond) experience. In the two domes, these experiences take the form of describing, with lots of heart, experiences that have to do with loss of self, with experiencing The Self, with experiences of infinity, bliss in every direction and in every thing. Each experience in the two domes is quite unique, stated in the idiom of the experiencer. The sidhi administrators read the experiences and make SUGGESTIONS about what to leave in, what to leave out before the experience is read. The off campus experiences seem to be pages out of the same book. Some THMD will go on and on about experiencing the primal sounds, for example, and throw in as many of Maharishi's words used during his last year of teaching to us, just to let us know that these words have validity. One could be cynical here, but let's just let it be that what you place your attention on will grow and since Maharishi placed out attention there, that area will grow into #1 experiences. I have no idea what the THMD/THP feel about the experiences in the domes. In the domes the reaction to the THMD/THP experiences is bullshit. Why does it take all of these special buzz words to describe an experience? Why further is it necessary to seemingly continue on with one of Maharishi's last lectures with show and tell or a lab demonstration? Bevin and Hagelin give first preference to THMD/THP experiences and if there are none then experiences in the domes can be read.
[FairfieldLife] Monkeys vs Meat (Re: Mantras, Religion and finally a statement . . .)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: various manifestations of the sidhis themselves. they produced results for me as taught. Such as? you'll just have to try them and see. each formula is targeted at a specific result. I know that. I am asking what results were produced in you.
[FairfieldLife] Monkeys vs Meat (Re: Mantras, Religion and finally a statement . . .)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Jan 28, 2009, at 12:35 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: various manifestations of the sidhis themselves. they produced results for me as taught. Such as? Clarity of thought, sincerity, honesty, friendliness, compassion...you know, all the qualities ED demonstrates so well here. :) Guffaw! Now, now, do. Those same qualities were the same as the ones that Jim Flanegin (Sandy Ego) demonstrated, and we all know that *he* was enlightened. Right? Right? Maybe ED is similarly enlightened. I notice that there has been no reply to the post in which I asked. She embarrasses herself. Her cringe inducing commentary has all the intellectual depth of an obnoxious know-it-all Jr High school Madonna fan sharing her 'expert knowledge' about how Madonna's music has influenced her social life ...and what it means for the world.
[FairfieldLife] Fairfield 1st Fridays Art Walk 5th Annual Film Expo
http://www.fairfieldartwalk.org . http://www.fairfieldartwalk.org/components/com_acajoom/templates/default/tpl0_underban.jpg 1 http://www.fairfieldartwalk.org/components/com_acajoom/templates/default/tpl0_spacer.gif Rick February 2009 Fairfield 1st Fridays Art Walk 5th Annual Film Expo - February 6th 7th, 2009 Plan to attend the Fairfield 1st Fridays Art Walk 5th Annual Film Expo February 6th 7th. Bring your family and friends and join the film-loving crowds at this weekend’s festivities. The Fairfield Public Library will be hosting the Young People's Film Project workshop for 5th - 8th graders where kids can create a short 3-5 minute film and put it on YouTube! Be a Hollywood hotshot and create your own 5-10 minute short film to enter in the do-it-yourself Art Walk Short Film Contest. Or learn about the wonderful world of creating high-end film animation. Discover your hidden talent at this year's 5th Annual Film Expo! http://www.fairfieldartwalk.org/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=74Itemid=106 Read more Questions? Call (641) 233-8883 or email i...@fairfieldartwalk.org http://www.fairfieldartwalk.org www.fairfieldartwalk.org Your Subscription: http://www.fairfieldartwalk.org/index.php?option=com_acajoomItemid=99act=changesubscriber=51cle=49cf3ef8e65987982e924d92401db41flistid=1 Change your subscription http://www.fairfieldartwalk.org/index.php?option=com_acajoomItemid=99act=unsubscribesubscriber=51cle=49cf3ef8e65987982e924d92401db41flistid=1 Unsubscribe http://www.joobisoft.com http://www.joobisoft.com Powered by Joobi 1 http://www.fairfieldartwalk.org/components/com_acajoom/templates/default/tpl0_spacer.gif . http://www.fairfieldartwalk.org/components/com_acajoom/templates/default/tpl0_abovefooter.jpg http://www.joobisoft.com Powered By Joobi http://www.fairfieldartwalk.org/index.php?option=com_acajoomItemid=99act=loglistid=1mailingid=17subscriber=51
Re: [FairfieldLife] Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
TurquoiseB wrote: The Rama fellow I studied with for many years taught Lucid Dreaming. He taught it in the context of Tibetan Dream Yoga, but the techniques were the same as those I've later found in Native American shamanism and other disciplines. The Tibetan connection is that in that tradition Lucid Dreaming is seen as analogous to (or synonymous with) the Bardo state between death and rebirth, and thus developing a facility with waking up in the dream, and being able to manipulate the dream state is seen as valuable to a culture in which the teachings of The Tibetan Book Of The Dead are assumed as a given. If you can wake up in a normal dream, and use your intention there in the astral, then it is assumed that you might also be able to do the same thing in the Bardo, and thus have a shot at a cooler rebirth. Boy Art Bell's cousin sure had an effect on you. :-D I've mentioned one lucid dream I've had several times on FFL and that was the one with Jesus who looked more like Naveen Andrews than the way that Christianity portrays him. He told me he wanted to tell me something and I had to walk over to talk to him and there were fundamentalist Christians who seemed to be stuck in the ground telling me I had no right to talk to him. He just nodded at them in disgust and said pay no attention to them. He essentially warned me that things were going to get really bad in the world (and it did happen). The experience makes it a little difficult for me as I really didn't think there actually was such an individual as Roman history makes no mention of him (and they were good historians) and might actually may be a work of fiction derived possibly from some activist's activities (which would have been so minor the Romans wouldn't have bothered with a mention) and a mystic at the time. Some theologians seem to buy into this idea.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ramayana
Or, from the level of symbolism, do these monkies actually represent certain humans who have not learned to develop their consciousness, or those who have not reached the true human potential? JR It's a fairy story, grow up.
[FairfieldLife] unpopular names crime: (cause and effect?)
from Yahoo news: Boys With Unpopular Names More Likely to Break Law Buzz Up Send livescience.com 2 hrs 25 mins agoBoys in the United States with common names like Michael and David are less likely to commit crimes than those named Ernest or Ivan. David E. Kalist and Daniel Y. Lee of Shippensburg University in Pennsylvania compared the first names of male juvenile delinquents to the first names of male juveniles in the population. The researchers constructed a popularity-name index (PNI) for each name. For example, the PNI for Michael is 100, the most frequently given name during the period. The PNI for David is 50, a name given half as frequently as Michael. The PNI is approximately 1 for names such as Alec, Ernest, Ivan, Kareem, and Malcolm. Results show that, regardless of race, juveniles with unpopular names are more likely to engage in criminal activity. The least popular names were associated with juvenile delinquency among both blacks and whites. The findings, announced today, are detailed in the journal Social Science Quarterly. While the names are likely not the cause of crime, the researchers argue that they are connected to factors that increase the tendency to commit crime, such as a disadvantaged home environment, residence in a county with low socioeconomic status, and households run by one parent. Also, adolescents with unpopular names may be more prone to crime because they are treated differently by their peers, making it more difficult for them to form relationships, according to a statement released by the journal's publisher. Juveniles with unpopular names may also act out because they consciously or unconsciously dislike their names. The findings could help officials identify individuals at high risk of committing or recommitting crime, leading to more effective and targeted intervention programs, the authors conclude. Crime News and Information Girls Gone Bad: Statistics Distort the Truth Graffiti Triggers Crime and Littering Original Story: Boys With Unpopular Names More Likely to Break Law LiveScience.com chronicles the daily advances and innovations made in science and technology. We take on the misconceptions that often pop up around scientific discoveries and deliver short, provocative explanations with a certain wit and style. Check out our science videos, Trivia Quizzes and Top 10s. Join our community to debate hot-button issues like stem cells, climate change and evolution. You can also sign up for free newsletters, register for RSS feeds and get cool gadgets at the LiveScience Store. Read Full Article
[FairfieldLife] Paul Mc Cartney, the TMO
TMO issues aside, I would love to hear Paul McCartney Mike Love duet on 'Back in the USSR' - also to hear Paul Horn blow some airy flute what about Ringo Paul working together again, that would be nice. Someone compared the Paul concert to George's concert in England. If it is a fraction as good, then it will be really very good. I attended George's concert it was rivetting - Ringo turned up for the encore and it was a real pleasure to hear them play!!! With regards to the TMO hopefully the TMO will collapse, very quickly, and if it does, I predict this would put meditation back at the grass roots level, where it belongs, out of the clutches of the Lords and Ladies of the New Raj. Why I reckon there would be a lot more interest in meditation if there weren't this queer organisation lurking about, giving people the willies!
Re: [FairfieldLife] US Civil Engineers rate the US infrastructure a D
I am the eternal wrote: I was hoping that The One would get us to bite the bullet and replace and build out our crumbling infrastructure but he's going to do very little, most of it tax cuts ,which are a very good idea because they act quickly, and symbols. What little his stimulus bill will do beyond tax cuts is aimed at his misguided idea that if we just insulate here and there and build cars that get hundreds of miles to the gallon (yeah, right), we'll all be in great shape. That's not exactly the way Brazil, which is energy independent, did it. But why look to other countries for examples? http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/28/news/economy/infrastructure_report_card/index.htm?postversion=2009012811 http://tinyurl.com/c7p2f7 Obama is not a magician. He still has to deal with the bureaucracy in Washington. It will take time if he can do anything at all. I'm not that optimistic. I think that the Republicans have managed to trash this country beyond repair. We might as well call the place New India in a reference to how Indians when the Brits left just let so much of the infrastructure the Brits created go to hell. It's not that we want our infrastructure to go to hell it's that we can't afford to do anything about it. All that money we wasted in Iraq put to work on the infrastructure would have done wonders. And as for jobs? Do we actually need them? Technology is doing away with many jobs that are so boring that humans shouldn't even be doing them. Instead just pay everyone a stipend and those who want to work or create a business can do so for extra money. It probably won't cost us anymore than the problems we have now. Our thinking is still stuck in old ruts. On Monday California will be bankrupt unless they pass a budget at the last minute (very unlikely) and personally I believe there is a faction that wants California government to completely collapse. We'll see next week. It may become the wild west again.
[FairfieldLife] You´re in the Movies
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote: Fairfield 1st Fridays Art Walk 5th Annual Film Expo - February 6th 7th, 2009 Plan to attend the Fairfield 1st Fridays Art Walk 5th Annual Film Expo February 6th 7th. Bring your family and friends and join the film-loving crowds at this weekendâs festivities. The Fairfield Public Library will be hosting the Young People's Film Project workshop for 5th - 8th graders where kids can create a short 3-5 minute film and put it on YouTube! Be a Hollywood hotshot and create your own 5-10 minute short film to enter in the do-it-yourself Art Walk Short Film Contest. Or learn about the wonderful world of creating high-end film animation. Discover your hidden talent at this year's 5th Annual Film Expo! This sounds like fun, Rick, and if I were in the area I´d definitely go. But it was the wording of the blurb and the invitation to ¨discover your hidden talent¨ and ¨be a Hollywood hotshot¨ that reminded me of something I wanted to post to FFL. In the latest issue of one of my French film magazines is a full-page ad for an XBOX game called ¨You´re in the Movies.¨ It shows an extremely cheezy (and, let´s face it, no one can be as cheezy as him) Burt Reynolds smiling and saying, ¨You´re in the Movies, c´est le meilleur jeu video sur le cinema que j´aie jamais vu.¨ ( YITM is the best video game on movies that I´ve ever seen. ) The quote is attributed to ¨Burt Reynolds, Acteur Charis- matique,¨ which requires no translation. :-) It´s very funny. At the bottom of the ad it says, ¨Camera included. Burt Reynolds sold separately.¨ Anyway, I looked it up, and it really does come with a video camera, and you really do shoot footage of yourself and your friends, and then put them in the canned ¨movies¨ that come with the game. Yeah, it´s cheezy, but it also sounds like a shitload of fun to me. If I had an XBOX, I´d buy one. Check out the YouTube link below, and you´ll see why I´m describing Burt´s presentation as ¨cheezy.¨ It´s intentionally cheezy. http://youtube.com/watch?v=3gSxrQvlZVs http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/y/yitm/ http://reviews.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/1626/Youre-in-the-Movies/p1/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
ruthsimplicity wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: enlightenment is that state of consciousness in which a person no longer identifies with, and gets lost in, the objects of perception. This sounds like the I don't care anymore definition of enlightenment. I usually ignore these threads because they really show how ignorant many people are on FFL about enlightenment. The best model is just the simple models that Indian adhere too. MMY complicated it to extract more money out of his followers. Keep raising the carrot. What we have he is a lot of anxiety over enlightenment. Enlightenment is simply moksha but one can intellectually masturbate all over that subject. As I've said many times one is on the road to enlightenment one once they no longer are anxious about it. To dissect the state is not going to get anyone there any faster.
Re: [FairfieldLife] You´re in the Movies
On Jan 28, 2009, at 2:40 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: It´s very funny. At the bottom of the ad it says, ¨Camera included. Burt Reynolds sold separately.¨ I love it! Sal
[FairfieldLife] Monkeys vs Meat (Re: Mantras, Religion and finally a statement . . .)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: various manifestations of the sidhis themselves. they produced results for me as taught. Such as? you'll just have to try them and see. each formula is targeted at a specific result. I know that. I am asking what results were produced in you. ok- long hops during the flying sutra-- stuff that i couldn't have accomplished athletically, seeing inside my body-- tendons, ligaments, muscles, blood flowing through arteries, visions, hearing and touch of celestial beings, traveling through outer space and between planets. that's all i recall...stuff i've lost interest in pursuing further.
[FairfieldLife] Monkeys vs Meat (Re: Mantras, Religion and finally a statement . . .)
your posts in that regard are hilarious to me (and boring)! i don't know anyone by either of the names you mentioned-- let's see: i am a blonde female with an indian sounding name, who may be a man, who doesn't meditate, but pretends to in order to argue with you, who posts in chat rooms, who claims they are enlightened. did i get all that? wow. you claim to do lucid dreaming, though i think you have to work on lucid waking state- lol. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Jan 28, 2009, at 12:35 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: various manifestations of the sidhis themselves. they produced results for me as taught. Such as? Clarity of thought, sincerity, honesty, friendliness, compassion...you know, all the qualities ED demonstrates so well here. :) Guffaw! Now, now, do. Those same qualities were the same as the ones that Jim Flanegin (Sandy Ego) demonstrated, and we all know that *he* was enlightened. Right? Right? Maybe ED is similarly enlightened. I notice that there has been no reply to the post in which I asked.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ramayana
nope, i refer to you as a monkey king because monkeys chatter, chatter, chatter about subjects they know nothing about, like you do. i don't personally care if you, (or anyone else here), agrees, disagrees with, believes or even concerns themselves with what i post. you are the one with issues, monkey, not me. here, have a banana! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: To All: In this book, we find a story of a race of monkeys who helped Rama defeat Ravana and his ilk. Since this story is supposedly millions of years old, is it possible that these monkies were the Neanderthals that existed eons of years ago? Or, from the level of symbolism, do these monkies actually represent certain humans who have not learned to develop their consciousness, or those who have not reached the true human potential? enlightened_dawn should pay attention to this. According to John, this million-year-old book portrays monkeys as willing partners in genocide. They fought alongside Rama for eighteen months, until every member of the clan they decided had to be wiped from the face of the planet was dead. Some commentaries on the Ramayana say that this clan numbered over 100,000 people (the entire population of modern-day Sri Lanka), before Rama decided in his Infinite Wisdom that they needed to be exterminated. I understand that you've been saying that in your view monkeys are warm and fuzzy and cuddly, and thus that's what you have in mind when you call people on this forum monkeys. But now you know the Truth, as revealed by this Holy Million-Year- Old Book. And as John has told us many, many times, this work is part of the Vedic Literature that is synonymous with Eternal Truth. Thus, according to this book of Eternal Truth, modern-day monkeys are most likely descended from their counterparts in the Ramayana, who were practitioners of genocide. Maybe you'd do better by calling the people who don't accept what *you* are saying as Eternal Truth koala bears instead. They're warm and fuzzy and cuddly, too, and they don't have a history of genocide. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: I recently posted a rap about Lucid Dreaming. It is pasted in at the bottom of this post. What I'm inter- ested in is whether anyone on FFL has had experiences of this sort, and wants to rap about them. No experts, no dogma, just rappin'...trying to figure things out. I have long been able to be conscious of my dreams as dreams and control their outcome. When I was a child, like many, I had terrible nightmares. My mother said think about looking for signs for knowing something is a dream. That suggestion was an effective way of teaching me to lucid dream. Also, we did a lot of dream talk at home which encouraged the remembering of dreams. Reviewing your dreams after they occur help you remember them plus helps you get some measure of control. When thinking about this thread I went to the wikipedia entry on lucid dreaming. The article gives some suggestions on how to lucid dream. What I thought was interesting was the section where it talks about going to sleep while maintaining some awareness, which will then allow you to lucid dream. The description which I quote below sounds like something a meditator would describe: During the actual transition into the dream state, one is likely to experience sleep paralysis, including rapid vibrations,[15] a sequence of loud sounds and a feeling of twirling into another state of body awareness, to drift off into another dimension, or the feeling like passing the interface between water into air face-front body first, or images or sceneries they are thinking of and trying to visualize gradually sharpen and become real, which they can actually see, instead of the fuzzy indefinable sensations one feels when trying to imagine something when wide awake.
[FairfieldLife] Monkeys vs Meat (Re: Mantras, Religion and finally a statement . . .)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: your posts in that regard are hilarious to me (and boring)! i don't know anyone by either of the names you mentioned-- let's see: i am a blonde female with an indian sounding name, who may be a man, who doesn't meditate, but pretends to in order to argue with you, who posts in chat rooms, who claims they are enlightened. did i get all that? wow. you claim to do lucid dreaming, though i think you have to work on lucid waking state- lol. Funny recap! I am afraid my last question might have been lost in the snark. I really am interested in what specific results you experienced from the siddhis. I have over the years heard too many vague statements about results without specificity. I would like someone to say something specific. E
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
Thanks for taking the time to openly respond to this question. Your openness is appreciated. On Jan 28, 2009, at 3:12 PM, I am the eternal wrote: Been there, done that, plan to go back and do it again. There is no script given to the IA CPs. There is no script. However TMO people will be TMO people. What's expected is that you'll relate a #1 (Unity or beyond) experience. In the two domes, these experiences take the form of describing, with lots of heart, experiences that have to do with loss of self, with experiencing The Self, with experiences of infinity, bliss in every direction and in every thing. Each experience in the two domes is quite unique, stated in the idiom of the experiencer. The sidhi administrators read the experiences and make SUGGESTIONS about what to leave in, what to leave out before the experience is read. So they make editorial suggestions? Why? I'm sorry, but that seems odd. Edited experiences, movement approved? This doesn't mean there is a script (of acceptable or not acceptable)? If the experiences are turned down, one would have to be on the (unspoken) script to get a mention wouldn't they? Perhaps I'm missing something. The off campus experiences seem to be pages out of the same book. Some THMD will go on and on about experiencing the primal sounds, for example, and throw in as many of Maharishi's words used during his last year of teaching to us, just to let us know that these words have validity. One could be cynical here, but let's just let it be that what you place your attention on will grow and since Maharishi placed out attention there, that area will grow into #1 experiences. I have no idea what the THMD/THP feel about the experiences in the domes. In the domes the reaction to the THMD/THP experiences is bullshit. Why does it take all of these special buzz words to describe an experience? Why further is it necessary to seemingly continue on with one of Maharishi's last lectures with show and tell or a lab demonstration? Good question. You're closer to the source so I'll have to defer to your impressions! Bevin and Hagelin give first preference to THMD/THP experiences and if there are none then experiences in the domes can be read. Oh that's just too funny. It's not easy being king.
[FairfieldLife] Monkeys vs Meat (Re: Mantras, Religion and finally a statement . . .)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: I know that. I am asking what results were produced in you. ok- long hops during the flying sutra-- stuff that i couldn't have accomplished athletically, seeing inside my body-- tendons, ligaments, muscles, blood flowing through arteries, visions, hearing and touch of celestial beings, traveling through outer space and between planets. that's all i recall...stuff i've lost interest in pursuing further. Thank you.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Call for Lucid Dreaming stories
Here is an interesting article on lucid dreaming and the blurred lines between awake and sleep: http://www.lucidity.com/SleepAndCognition.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] unpopular names crime: (cause and effect?
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 2:33 PM, yifuxero yifux...@yahoo.com wrote: from Yahoo news: Boys With Unpopular Names More Likely to Break Law Buzz Up Send livescience.com – 2 hrs 25 mins agoBoys in the United States with common names like Michael and David are less likely to commit crimes than those named Ernest or Ivan. And I'm sure it's no coincidence that black guys and black women in the US all have to have their own cult names. So not only can you spot someone on the phone with the black variant of the southern accident, you can spot 'em by their name as well. If only black mothers gave as much consideration to how they will rear a child they've just spawned as they give to coming up with a unique name for the child.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Paul Mc Cartney, the TM
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Paul Mason premanandp...@yahoo.co.ukwrote: TMO issues aside, I would love to hear Paul McCartney Mike Love duet on 'Back in the USSR' - also to hear Paul Horn blow some airy flute what about Ringo Paul working together again, that would be nice. Someone compared the Paul concert to George's concert in England. If it is a fraction as good, then it will be really very good. I attended George's concert it was rivetting - Ringo turned up for the encore and it was a real pleasure to hear them play!!! With regards to the TMO hopefully the TMO will collapse, very quickly, and if it does, I predict this would put meditation back at the grass roots level, where it belongs, out of the clutches of the Lords and Ladies of the New Raj. Why I reckon there would be a lot more interest in meditation if there weren't this queer organisation lurking about, giving people the willies! Hmm. I didn't realize it, but I belong to a dead society. Very few people know it exists. 'Twould be interesting if it just faded away. Maybe then some former teachers would go around teaching meditation.
[FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: lol-- i got as far as the grasshopper living among the weeds and then got lost... So did the grasshopper. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: agreed-- really well said dr. pete. enlightenment is real, viable and experienced-- just not by -thinking- raunchydog, i don't get your comments at all- care to clarify please? Just jiving Peter. It's an analogy that obviously failed. It's a stretch but my point was, the grasshopper identifies with the weeds in which he lives so much so that he smokes the weed and hallucinates his existence to be something real. Sorry, I can't wrap my brain around it any further than that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: Excellent, Peter. It's exactly the map of the territory Maharishi has been telling grasshopper, identifying for years with the weeds he's been smokin'. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Enlightenment is not what you think because: You can not get enlightened. A thought is necessarily bound by time and space and therefore has nothing to do with enlightenment. You can not model enlightenment. So with those caveats. In ignorance you are somebody. A psychological private self that relates to the world. Then you get 1st stage enlightenment and you are nobody. Actually, no you to be or not to be. Consciousness becomes conscious of its own consciousness and withdraws identity with any space/time experience. No-Self. No localization of consciousness. Weird as shit for the mind. You no longer exist, only consciousness within which everything occurs. Then you get 2nd stage enlightenment Grasshopper. Now you are everybody. Consciousness awakens to its bound value of space and time as simply consciousness. All moving within itself. From here to here through there according to Maharishi. Those are good words. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: From: Peter drpetersutphen@ Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 8:18 PM Enlightenment is not what you think. --- On Tue, 1/27/09, ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More definitions of enlightenment To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:10 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: enlightenment is that state of consciousness in which a person no longer identifies with, and gets lost in, the objects of perception. This sounds like the I don't care anymore definition of enlightenment. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
