[FairfieldLife] Speculating about CC instead of doing the work[was Re:Two...questions from Turq]

[Ravi Yogi]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
 wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Yogi" raviyogi@ wrote:
> >
> > Oh hi Curtis, sorry didn't mean to outshout you, don't be modest,
you
> > yourself are really doing a helluva job here on this thread with
your
> > shout-outs. I'm hoping MMY is resurrected and implicated soon enough
so
> > normalcy returns and you, Rick and Judith can go back to your lives
and
> > daily routine. It's been a helluva of a threads oops week and I feel
for
> > you. I pray that justice be done.
>
> Sometimes I get confused if your are misinterpreting an American idiom
or are cleverly playing with the word in its other meanings.
>
> I guess you do understand and are being clever with the term shout out
here.
>
Yep, you got it.
> This tread IS normal for me.  We are all just having fun here right? 
And we are ALL bozos on this bus!
Indeed !!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma

[Ravi Yogi]

Thanks for your comments Kevin !! You have put it aptly - you
experienced the love in you. A Satguru just acts as the perfect mirror
reflecting the divine, the love in us. In India Guru is equated with
God, as in symbolic of God. Many who meet Amma fall in love with her,
her love, compassion, unconditional acceptance and then in their
exuberance would love to worship her. Not that she asks for it, they
would love to copy her, but slowly with maturity it should dawn upon us
that this love is not outside of us, that it is intrinsic to us, that
existence doesn't create copycats. With awareness comes the knowledge
that we are perfect as we are, that we are authentic, unique expressions
of the divine.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shanti2218411"  wrote:
>
> Ravi very well put.My experience with Amma has been much more limited
but like you while I have not felt ANY need to think of her as GOD
> I have been in awe of the love I have experienced in her presence and
when I and my wife and daughter received her hug.
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Yogi" raviyogi@ wrote:
> >
> > Steve - regardless of how my messages come across, I am not
reacting. I
> > really don't care for praise or criticism, for me the content
doesn't
> > matter, the consciousness that the other and I bring to it. Though
my
> > messages definitely reflect my samskaras and vasanas (mental
tendencies
> > and inclination), i.e. they are harsh, they have no bearing on my
> > consciousness. I'm not a diplomat nor I am a politician, I'm not
here to
> > please anyone or make fans.
> > In fact I'm in no hurry to respond to anything. Similar to Rick I
> > thought Denise's message was sincere and honest and since Rick did a
> > really good job responding to her I didn't really feel like adding
> > anything much even though I spent quite a bit of time of
contemplating
> > how I could answer her best. Since you have put me on the spot :-),
I
> > will add in my 2 cents.
> > Denise, I'm not sure what your exposure to Eastern spirituality is
but I
> > will comment on the outer paraphernalia that you witnessed around
Amma.
> > Its very symbolic, the temples in India have a lot of activity and
buzz
> > around them, the temple is decorated with pornographic images and
demons
> > representing the various desires and negative tendencies; but once
you
> > get inside the temple it is just dark and silent - which is in
perfect
> > contrast to the outer chaos.
> > Similar is the situation around Amma, there's lot of buzz, activity,
> > drama around Amma and then there is the silence, the pure awareness
that
> > is the Satguru like Amma - providing a perfect contrast between the
> > outer and inner. So I have over the years seen lots of craziness
around
> > her - power, control, ego, jealousy - it definitely mirrors the
outer
> > world - however there is that amazing contrast of inner silence that
> > grows around you. Then you realize slowly that it was never about
the
> > outer, that outer will always be outer but the inner is the one that
> > changes, that you are rooted in your inner silence while being
> > surrounded by dazzling dizzying outer.
> > I had similar feelings when I met Amma in '95 in Rhode Island, the
> > situation around was just too crazy for me, a bunch of weird white
> > people dressed in white chanting Hindu mantras and bhajans. But
somehow
> > I kept coming back, it was because of her love and my ability to as
I
> > say, cut through crap or the outer, intuition as some may call it -
that
> > I have articulated in the above paragraphs.
> > Someone also seemed to have perfectly setup you up for
disappointment.
> > My inner journey with Amma has been long and arduous. Most of the
others
> > are as well.
> > The mind is always in a hurry to accept or reject which clearly
comes
> > out in your story - you accepted and then rejected - there was no
> > middle. It's natural mind always seeks the extremes whereas with the
> > heart it's not the case. There's no hurry, the fact that you could
come
> > back home, destroy all the material and post it to this website
shows
> > there's nothing to worry about, there's no mind control, there's no
need
> > to even go back to her again.
> > The energy, the emotional upheaval that you felt is also a common
sign.
> > I felt is as well, it is the gross energy trying to process the
subtle
> > energy - like you it was very uncomfortable for me as well.
> > But you should go back and check her out again and watch, feel,
intuit,
> > don't let your mind rush to accept or reject - there's no hurry.
Then go
> > back home and then you can pick and choose what feels right for you,
> > this is a slow process since what you is think right for you changes
> > with time, it certainly has for me for the last 16 years with Amma.
> > Also it's easy to get deceived that there's a party line around
Amma,
> > that there's a set of rituals, ten commandments associated with Amma
-
> > nothing could be farther from

[FairfieldLife] Re: Confirmation bias [was:Speculating about CC instead of doing the work]

[curtisdeltablues]

-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
>
> Curtis, I am making the point that AT LEAST no one here on FFL came anywhere 
> near any direct evidence of what is being alleged, book or not.> 

Like any topic discussed, other than ourdirect experience.  And of course due 
to the private nature of this experience, that is not a reasonable expectation 
for this topic.  




ME:
I am interested in opinions from people who have read the book.  I really 
couldn't care less who reads it and doesn't find it credible for their 
standards.  I have been discussing apriori opinions of the book without reading 
it.  That falls below my own criteria for reasonable opinions about a book.

The bigger issues about Maharishi for me are not that he, like most men in 
power, took some nookie license, although the abuse of power gives me pause, 
but that I sincerely believe he is wrong about human consciousness and its 
possibilities.  I have yet to hear anything convincing about the connection 
between what we experience in our heads and the home of all the laws of nature. 
 Of course YMMV and if it works for you more power to ya.



> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Funny that the anti-Maharishi, anti-TMO, anti-"enlightenmentudeness"  
> > > clique here continuously claims that those who make positive claims about 
> > > Maharishi, the TMO and enlightenment are doing so to garner attention and 
> > > feel special and elevated above others. The same could easily be said 
> > > about those claiming to have had sex with Maharishi. After all, what 
> > > would be more special than that? "Look at me, I boinked Maharishi...". 
> > > Yeah, look at you, center stage... 
> > 
> > That might have worked better when she was actually in the movement.  But 
> > she took decades to process the experience it all and her account doesn't 
> > come off that way.  It is hard to discuss the book if you haven't read it.  
> > But talking about it this way without reading it does reveal some stuff 
> > about your perspective.
> > 
> > The problem with the enlightenment claim is that it IS a claim of intrinsic 
> > superiority on whatever you are knowing.  This is just a specific 
> > experience and only applies to it.  And it was a special relationship she 
> > had with Maharishi with or without the undercover activities. But that 
> > doesn't give her the right to tell me she has discovered the purpose of 
> > life itself.  And thankfully she hasn't tried.
> > 
> > > 
> > > There is also a propensity among this anti-everything-Maharishi crowd to 
> > > question any experience had in the presence of Maharishi. Why not 
> > > seriously question these claims of sex? After all, this could be some 
> > > kind of fantasy fulfillment for the women involved, after rounding for 
> > > years and becoming progressively more and more unstable (as we are always 
> > > told by the TM detractors here regarding the results of TM and TMSP). It 
> > > sounds like confirmation bias to me.
> > 
> > No, it reveals yours if you haven't read the book.
> > 
> >  
> > > 
> > > Regardless of our opinions, there is zero evidence of Maharishi  having 
> > > had sex with anyone. Lots of hearsay, accusations, rumors and beliefs- an 
> > > airtight case within airtight minds- however the only things missing are 
> > > *facts* and *evidence*.
> > 
> > So if a person witnesses something or is a participant, their description 
> > of it is not credible once it leaves their lips? We are only confident 
> > about things that happen to us but shouldn't be fooled by book learning 
> > accounts of history? That sounds a bit limited to me.
> > 
> >  
> > > 
> > > Seems that going after this sacred cow of MMY having sex isn't in the 
> > > best interests of those with an agenda against Maharishi, doesn't support 
> > > their story, their version of reality that they cling to so dearly.
> > 
> > 
> > And agenda against Maharishi.  Hate to break it to ya Jim but the guy is 
> > totally dead.  We are just discussion different views of history here.  And 
> > by not reading the book I'm pretty sure it isn't us who are trying to cling 
> > to some version of reality.  Your attempts to discredit the book ahead of 
> > time is very revealing about your own bias.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > [Rick wrote:] 
> > > > > > > There were numerous witnesses, in the person of 
> > > > > > > multiple women. Each had their own "events". 
> > > > > > > Only one has had the guts to write a book.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Well, so you now have several people claiming that 
> > > > > > several different events happened, apparent

[FairfieldLife] Re: Confirmation bias [was:Speculating about CC instead of doing the work]

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71"  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Funny that the anti-Maharishi, anti-TMO, anti-"enlightenmentudeness"  
> > > > clique here continuously claims that those who make positive claims 
> > > > about Maharishi, the TMO and enlightenment are doing so to garner 
> > > > attention and feel special and elevated above others. The same could 
> > > > easily be said about those claiming to have had sex with Maharishi. 
> > > > After all, what would be more special than that? "Look at me, I boinked 
> > > > Maharishi...". Yeah, look at you, center stage... 
> > > 
> > > That might have worked better when she was actually in the movement.  But 
> > > she took decades to process the experience it all and her account doesn't 
> > > come off that way.  It is hard to discuss the book if you haven't read 
> > > it.  But talking about it this way without reading it does reveal some 
> > > stuff about your perspective.
> > > 
> > > The problem with the enlightenment claim is that it IS a claim of 
> > > intrinsic superiority on whatever you are knowing.  This is just a 
> > > specific experience and only applies to it.  And it was a special 
> > > relationship she had with Maharishi with or without the undercover 
> > > activities. But that doesn't give her the right to tell me she has 
> > > discovered the purpose of life itself.  And thankfully she hasn't tried.
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > There is also a propensity among this anti-everything-Maharishi crowd 
> > > > to question any experience had in the presence of Maharishi. Why not 
> > > > seriously question these claims of sex? After all, this could be some 
> > > > kind of fantasy fulfillment for the women involved, after rounding for 
> > > > years and becoming progressively more and more unstable (as we are 
> > > > always told by the TM detractors here regarding the results of TM and 
> > > > TMSP). It sounds like confirmation bias to me.
> > 
> > You need to read the book if you want to talk about it.  A few people knew 
> > of this going on back in the 70's and everyone, everyone kept it quiet.  No 
> > one wanted it to come out even if true.  One, a very smart and devoted 
> > person I know, spent about 2 years years and their own money investigating 
> > the sex rumors because they had to know before they could go on giving 
> > their LIVES to MMY and his organization.  
> 
> I was aware of a similar person. Perhaps it was the same one. When he quietly 
> dropped out, it gave more weight to it -- along with other data points here 
> and there. Not a Confirmational Bias (CB) thing (which is humorous if we are 
> talking about the same person) because I was inclined not to believe such 
> things. Back then, around 77, I was open to both sides, and I was surprised a 
> bit at my reaction, and that of a close friend who revealed the information, 
> that it did not seem to make a huge difference to me. To her it was a much 
> bigger deal. 
> 
> >Judith refused to discuss it with  back then, but there were other women to 
> >talk to.  Generally they did not want to talk about the sex, altho they were 
> >clear it had happened.   But when he found out the information and what he 
> >thought to be the truth, he quietly left TM, very quietly.  Would not say a 
> >word, just left. I believe several other people left, quietly, for similar 
> >reasons.
> 
> Some long term, early india course teachers seemed to drop out around then. 
> Seemed odd at the time. Its only (idle) speculation, but knowledge of such 
> events may have been a factor. Others, it appears, who did know, stayed in 
> TMO or at least its outer trappings, for decades 
> > 
> 
> > I heard of this back in the mid-70's and decided tWhat better way to 
> > imagine that your guru finds you special.  And so I had to be careful about 
> > believing the rumors.  But there is too much smoke around this issue for 
> > there not to be some sort of fire. Too many different accounts. 
> 
> 
> Yes. That is why the "he said, she said" views appear so simplistic. Its 
> ignoring the perponderance of information. Some people would only believe if 
> there were video tapes. And even then they would yell "photoshop" (or the 
> video equivalent).  For me its in the 98% probability range. Not certain, and 
> not something that matters much to me or affects my vies on things TMO and 
> MMY.

Exactly. Agreed.  
> >
> > I have no doubt it occurred, none. And I still do TM, and think MMY was 
> > pretty great in many ways.  He made some mistakes.
> > > 
> > > No, it reveals yours if you haven't read the book.
> > > 
> > >  
> > > > 
> > > > Regardless of our opinions, there is zero evidence of Maharishi  having 
> > > > had sex with anyone. Lots of hearsay, accusatio

[FairfieldLife] Re: News blackout about flooding at Nebraska nuke plant?

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:

> And the local TV station news stories in the videos?  I don't know 
> having a nuke plant that hemmed in by water can't be good.

Surely not. But if the water doesn't get inside the
barriers, it won't be bad either (for the plant, at
least).

> BTW, I would suggest others take a look for yourselves
> and not let Judy do your thinking for you. :-D

Translation: Let *Bhairitu* do your thinking for you.
Don't let yourself be distracted by facts (especially
if it happens to be Judy who reports them).

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: News blackout about flooding at Nebraska nuke plant?

[Bhairitu]

On 06/18/2011 06:16 PM, authfriend wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>> I would suggest watching the video because it contains
>> local TV news reports.
> I did watch it. Were you figuring that would make this
> scare story *more* credible?
>
> He's recommending the site Godlike Productions, for pete's
> sake, which has a lengthy disclaimer that includes the
> following:
>
> "Not all posts on this website are intended as truthful or factual assertion 
> by their authors. Some users of this website are participating in internet 
> role playing, with or without the use of an avatar. NO post on this website 
> should be considered factual information on face value aloneSome events 
> depicted in certain posting and threads on this website may be fictitious and 
> any similarity to any person living or dead is merely coincidental. Some 
> other articles may be based on actual events but which in certain cases 
> incidents, characters and timelines have been changed for
> dramatic purposes. Certain characters may be composites, or entirely 
> fictitious.
>
> "We do not discriminate against the mentally ill!"
>
> And he's all upset because Alex Jones isn't flogging
> the story. That cracked me up.
>
>
>
>The article I put up for face value in case people wanted to
>> dig further.  Yup, Sorcha Faal is a known spinner of tales (and not
>> identified in the Pakistani article nor the Salem reprint)  but the
>> no-fly zone and the water way ban that the TV news reporter mentions are
>> curious.  Also there has been some funny stuff going on about Fukushima
>> and radiation reports in the US.  I'm sure the guvmint doesn't want the
>> sheeple to freak out and neither does big energy who smells money in
>> nukes.  But we like to know what the Fukushima is happening. ;-)

And the local TV station news stories in the videos?  I don't know 
having a nuke plant that hemmed in by water can't be good.

BTW, I would suggest others take a look for yourselves and not let Judy 
do your thinking for you. :-D

And paleeez notice the question mark at the end of my post.  I was not 
making any claim any way! :-D :-D :-D

[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma

[Ravi Yogi]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius"
 wrote:
>
> I too thought Ravi's response was thoughtful, and good advice.
Spiritual movements, any movement really, channels experience in certain
directions. Not all of this directiveness is conscious, but it functions
like brainwashing. Having the ability to navigate these impulses that
can wall us in takes a certain maturity, which Ravi expresses in his
post, but if one is a novice in this business, one can be trapped. In
the TM movement there is the talk of 'self-sufficiency', yet one meets
so many there that seem to have none whatsoever.
>
> So having a healthy dose of caution is a really good thing to have. In
some cases it might slow down progress if one is over critical, but if
you are not critical enough, you can get lost. Take a break, research,
read things from various traditions, and locate experiences of people in
these traditions on the Internet if you can find them, if that is of
interest to you, and see if you find something that resonates with you
without sending up red flags that feel excessively uncomfortable.
>
> But avoiding discomfort entirely in a spiritual setting gets one
nowhere. What one needs to learn to distinguish is whether the
discomfort is a danger from without as opposed to some kind of
purification from inside one's own mind.
Thanks Xeno - this is beautifully put - "avoiding discomfort entirely in
a spiritual setting gets one nowhere". Also with respect to your comment
"Having the ability to navigate these impulses that can wall us in takes
a certain maturity" - maturity is indeed the part of the process and
cannot really be a requirement, very few have it, I certainly didn't
when I met her. So most of the times it's like a love affair with the
master, it was and is one for me, we stick in-spite of all the outer
distractions.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma

[Ravi Yogi]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans 
wrote:
>
> This is very thoughtful. Â I think I was disappointed in that I had
expectations of "feeling" some kind of overwhelming love and compassion
as she is the "saint" supposedly dispensing this and no, it was not
outwardly apparent. Â I did receive a mantra to pray to the divine
mother and was put off by the instruction to chant it all the time with
"blind faith." The mantra itself is also an outer construct in the way I
choose to interpret it. Â
Thanks Denise. I have found that the love and compassion can only be
felt inside of us, it's very natural when we first come to spirituality
to externalize these values on to the other. There are a lot who project
these values on to the other, though it's very helpful for some who need
this acknowledgement the circle isn't complete until we feel it in
ourselves. I am not an expert on mantra, I got one from Amma in 1995 and
but soon stopped chanting it because it was not my path, however there
should be plenty of material on mantras online. Like you say mantra is
just a tool, a bridge to the divine.
> The hours of meditation and energy experienced were powerful and yes,
leaving the outer religious construct behind and my overactive brain
with it, in the end, I am left with an experience that has spurred a lot
of thought internally and a desire to be a more conscious and
compassionate person, letting go of so many patterns that are no longer
working for me as a human in the last third of her life on this planet.
Â
That's good to know. I guess this is all that matters, that you are
aware of the need for a deeper connection and have started the journey.
>
> --- On Fri, 6/17/11, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote:
>
> From: Ravi Yogi raviyogi@...
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 6:40 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Denise - and as they say you have to pass though hell to get to
heaven, so nothing is going to change around Amma because it's a perfect
contrast, a metaphor or pun of the play of the opposites, the play of
the outer and the inner. There's many who are stuck in the outer, spend
their entire lives analyzing and discussing it, some completely close it
and project happiness, joy and wonder. The doors of bliss are not opened
until you open the door to misery, the Self is not revealed unless you
acknowledge the shadow, good luck in your spiritual journey.
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Yogi" raviyogi@ wrote:
> >
> > Denise, I'm not sure what your exposure to Eastern spirituality is
but I
> > will comment on the outer paraphernalia that you witnessed around
Amma.
> > Its very symbolic, the temples in India have a lot of activity and
buzz
> > around them, the temple is decorated with pornographic images and
demons
> > representing the various desires and negative tendencies; but once
you
> > get inside the temple it is just dark and silent - which is in
perfect
> > contrast to the outer chaos.>
> > Similar is the situation around Amma, there's lot of buzz, activity,
> > drama around Amma and then there is the silence, the pure awareness
that
> > is the Satguru like Amma - providing a perfect contrast between the
> > outer and inner. So I have over the years seen lots of craziness
around
> > her - power, control, ego, jealousy - it definitely mirrors the
outer
> > world - however there is that amazing contrast of inner silence that
> > grows around you. Then you realize slowly that it was never about
the
> > outer, that outer will always be outer but the inner is the one that
> > changes, that you are rooted in your inner silence while being
> > surrounded by dazzling dizzying outer.>
> > I had similar feelings when I met Amma in '95 in Rhode Island, the
> > situation around was just too crazy for me, a bunch of weird white
> > people dressed in white chanting Hindu mantras and bhajans. But
somehow
> > I kept coming back, it was because of her love and my ability to as
I
> > say, cut through crap or the outer, intuition as some may call it -
that
> > I have articulated in the above paragraphs.>
> > Someone also seemed to have perfectly setup you up for
disappointment.
> > My inner journey with Amma has been long and arduous. Most of the
others
> > are as well.>
> > The mind is always in a hurry to accept or reject which clearly
comes
> > out in your story - you accepted and then rejected - there was no
> > middle. It's natural mind always seeks the extremes whereas with the
> > heart it's not the case. There's no hurry, the fact that you could
come
> > back home, destroy all the material and post it to this website
shows
> > there's nothing to worry about, there's no mind control, there's no
need
> > to even go back to her again.>
> > The energy, the emotional upheaval that you felt is also a common
sign.
> > I felt is as well, it is the gross energy trying to process the
subtle
> > en

[FairfieldLife] Re: News blackout about flooding at Nebraska nuke plant?

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> I would suggest watching the video because it contains
> local TV news reports.

I did watch it. Were you figuring that would make this
scare story *more* credible?

He's recommending the site Godlike Productions, for pete's
sake, which has a lengthy disclaimer that includes the
following:

"Not all posts on this website are intended as truthful or factual assertion by 
their authors. Some users of this website are participating in internet role 
playing, with or without the use of an avatar. NO post on this website should 
be considered factual information on face value aloneSome events depicted 
in certain posting and threads on this website may be fictitious and any 
similarity to any person living or dead is merely coincidental. Some other 
articles may be based on actual events but which in certain cases incidents, 
characters and timelines have been changed for
dramatic purposes. Certain characters may be composites, or entirely fictitious.

"We do not discriminate against the mentally ill!"

And he's all upset because Alex Jones isn't flogging
the story. That cracked me up.



  The article I put up for face value in case people wanted to 
> dig further.  Yup, Sorcha Faal is a known spinner of tales (and not 
> identified in the Pakistani article nor the Salem reprint)  but the 
> no-fly zone and the water way ban that the TV news reporter mentions are 
> curious.  Also there has been some funny stuff going on about Fukushima 
> and radiation reports in the US.  I'm sure the guvmint doesn't want the 
> sheeple to freak out and neither does big energy who smells money in 
> nukes.  But we like to know what the Fukushima is happening. ;-)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The death of the 52 y/o, contaminated herbs, bloods tests required?

[Tom Pall]

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 12:19 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote:

>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall  wrote:
> >
> > I know the vague details, but not yet precisely what's going on.
>
>
>
> An oldish fellow dies of a heart-attack and thomas pall rush in to make a
> scandal.
>
> What is wrong with you ? When did you have a checking last ?
>
>
>
Nabby?  Have you had your blood levels of heavy metals checked yet?  Are you
delirious from Hg poisoning?   I posted something based on little
information.  I said as much.  I am asking for more information, from my
sources the Dome and here on FFL.  Sorry, never thought of tying the herbal
contamination with a guy dropping dead of a heart attack at age 52.What
needs to be checked is your comprehension of the American language.

Re: [FairfieldLife] *** Urgent - please read news regarding our supplements ***

[Tom Pall]

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Rick Archer  wrote:

>
>
>
> 1. Drink 1 cup of warm/hot milk that has 1 - 2 teaspoons ghee added, in the
> morning and evening.  
>
>  
>
> 2. Take 3 grams of Amala powder after each meal. This is available at
> Indian groceries or from the inter net. Blend in a blender w/ a little
> water. Also a MAPI Amala product named ReGen Vitality is good and available
> at the address below:
>
>  
>
>
> http://www.mapi.com/maharishi_ayurveda/products/ayurveda_herbal_remedies/regenvitality.html
> 
>
>  
>
> 3. Blend 2 tablespoons fresh cilantro and a little water with ½ to 1 tab of
> Shodhana Vati. Take before all meals (can reduce the normal evening dose of
> shodhana by 2-3 tabs to make up for the extra doses, according to your
> elimination). 
>
>  
>
>  
>
> MAPI.   Wasn't that company founded by the guy people claim poisoned the
dude he worked as a clerk for?

[FairfieldLife] Re: News blackout about flooding at Nebraska nuke plant?

[authfriend]

Couple additional points:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:

> I couldn't quickly find anything about whether no-fly
> zones over a nuclear plant when it's refueling are
> standard, but it seems like it would be a reasonable
> precaution in case of an accidental radiation release
> when the spent fuel rods are removed and new ones
> installed.

Heh. Apparently ever since 9/11, there have been no-fly
zones around all nuclear power plants, all the time.

> The All Things Nuclear site (run by the Union of
> Concerned Scientists) has nothing on the Fort Calhoun
> situation, which suggests to me that it's nothing to
> be concerned about.

Should say, "yet."

The power company has a "Flood Rumor Control" section:

http://www.oppd.com/AboutUs/22_007105

[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma

[shanti2218411]

Ravi very well put.My experience with Amma has been much more limited but like 
you while I have not felt ANY need to think of her as GOD
I have been in awe of the love I have experienced in her presence and when I 
and my wife and daughter received her hug.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Yogi"  wrote:
>
> Steve - regardless of how my messages come across, I am not reacting. I
> really don't care for praise or criticism, for me the content doesn't
> matter, the consciousness that the other and I bring to it. Though my
> messages definitely reflect my samskaras and vasanas (mental tendencies
> and inclination), i.e. they are harsh, they have no bearing on my
> consciousness. I'm not a diplomat nor I am a politician, I'm not here to
> please anyone or make fans.
> In fact I'm in no hurry to respond to anything. Similar to Rick I
> thought Denise's message was sincere and honest and since Rick did a
> really good job responding to her I didn't really feel like adding
> anything much even though I spent quite a bit of time of contemplating
> how I could answer her best. Since you have put me on the spot :-), I
> will add in my 2 cents.
> Denise, I'm not sure what your exposure to Eastern spirituality is but I
> will comment on the outer paraphernalia that you witnessed around Amma.
> Its very symbolic, the temples in India have a lot of activity and buzz
> around them, the temple is decorated with pornographic images and demons
> representing the various desires and negative tendencies; but once you
> get inside the temple it is just dark and silent - which is in perfect
> contrast to the outer chaos.
> Similar is the situation around Amma, there's lot of buzz, activity,
> drama around Amma and then there is the silence, the pure awareness that
> is the Satguru like Amma - providing a perfect contrast between the
> outer and inner. So I have over the years seen lots of craziness around
> her - power, control, ego, jealousy - it definitely mirrors the outer
> world - however there is that amazing contrast of inner silence that
> grows around you. Then you realize slowly that it was never about the
> outer, that outer will always be outer but the inner is the one that
> changes, that you are rooted in your inner silence while being
> surrounded by dazzling dizzying outer.
> I had similar feelings when I met Amma in '95 in Rhode Island, the
> situation around was just too crazy for me, a bunch of weird white
> people dressed in white chanting Hindu mantras and bhajans. But somehow
> I kept coming back, it was because of her love and my ability to as I
> say, cut through crap or the outer, intuition as some may call it - that
> I have articulated in the above paragraphs.
> Someone also seemed to have perfectly setup you up for disappointment.
> My inner journey with Amma has been long and arduous. Most of the others
> are as well.
> The mind is always in a hurry to accept or reject which clearly comes
> out in your story - you accepted and then rejected - there was no
> middle. It's natural mind always seeks the extremes whereas with the
> heart it's not the case. There's no hurry, the fact that you could come
> back home, destroy all the material and post it to this website shows
> there's nothing to worry about, there's no mind control, there's no need
> to even go back to her again.
> The energy, the emotional upheaval that you felt is also a common sign.
> I felt is as well, it is the gross energy trying to process the subtle
> energy - like you it was very uncomfortable for me as well.
> But you should go back and check her out again and watch, feel, intuit,
> don't let your mind rush to accept or reject - there's no hurry. Then go
> back home and then you can pick and choose what feels right for you,
> this is a slow process since what you is think right for you changes
> with time, it certainly has for me for the last 16 years with Amma.
> Also it's easy to get deceived that there's a party line around Amma,
> that there's a set of rituals, ten commandments associated with Amma -
> nothing could be farther from truth. In fact I don't follow the party
> line at all, I don't consider Amma as a God or Devi or some incarnation
> - in fact I don't consider anything outside of me. I was not interested
> in chanting, mantras or rituals, in fact, though born as a Hindu, I
> considered myself more as an atheist growing up. But Amma supported me
> in my journey, in my ability to be an individual, to follow my own inner
> path to the divine. It never meant giving up my ideas, opinions and
> intellect, in fact my intellect has never been sharper, my heart has
> never been more loving.
> In fact that's what the Guru is - he or she really makes you an
> individual, lets you establish your own personal intimate connection
> with the divine, the divine that springs forth from your inner silence.
> The Guru really shows that everything is inside of us by being a perfect
> mirror allowing ourselves to acknowled

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: News blackout about flooding at Nebraska nuke plant?

[Bhairitu]

I would suggest watching the video because it contains local TV news 
reports.  The article I put up for face value in case people wanted to 
dig further.  Yup, Sorcha Faal is a known spinner of tales (and not 
identified in the Pakistani article nor the Salem reprint)  but the 
no-fly zone and the water way ban that the TV news reporter mentions are 
curious.  Also there has been some funny stuff going on about Fukushima 
and radiation reports in the US.  I'm sure the guvmint doesn't want the 
sheeple to freak out and neither does big energy who smells money in 
nukes.  But we like to know what the Fukushima is happening. ;-)


On 06/18/2011 04:21 PM, whynotnow7 wrote:
> I didn't read the referenced articles or watch the Youtube that Bhairitu 
> posted. Just googled "Ft. Calhoun nuclear plant". The Reuters article and 
> another one were what I was referring to. Smells fishy.
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>>
>>
>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>>> Here's a YouTube video that has pictures of the rising waters
>>> around the Fort Calhoun plant and other plants plus local area
>>> TV reports. Apparently the Obama administration has ordered a
>>> news blackout?
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvDbB3HqNcA
>>>
>>> Article about the news blackout first report by Pakistan's
>>> "The Nation":
>>>
>>> http://www.salem-news.com/articles/june172011/nebraska-nuclear.php
>>>
>>> (Note the editor disputes that the report of a news blackout
>>> is a hoax but does think the Pakistani article may contain
>>> inaccuracies).
>> Here's the relevant comment calling it a hoax:
>>
>> -
>> Laughing June 17, 2011 3:55 pm (Pacific time)
>>
>> This article is by well-known disinfo artist "Sorcha Faal," whose name is, 
>> as usual, omitted from the unreliable EUTimes web site, and is also not from 
>> Moscow: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread304918/pg1
>> Note that the web site this "news" story comes from includes this 
>> disclaimer: "Some events depicted in certain articles on this website are 
>> fictitious and any similarity to any person living or dead is merely 
>> coincidental. Some other articles may be based on actual events but which in 
>> certain cases incidents, characters and timelines have been changed for 
>> dramatic purposes. Certain characters may be composites, or entirely 
>> fictitious." http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index677.htm
>> A clever mix of fact, fiction, and hysteria ("dramatic purposes") does not 
>> make the fiction part factual. You have been duped.
>> -
>>
>> Google the name "Sorcha Faal." "She" is notorious for
>> plastering hoaxes all over the Internet. "She" appears
>> to be the alter ego of a computer programmer named
>> David Booth.
>>
>
>

[FairfieldLife] Post Count

[FFL PostCount]

Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
Start Date (UTC): Sat Jun 18 00:00:00 2011
End Date (UTC): Sat Jun 25 00:00:00 2011
132 messages as of (UTC) Sun Jun 19 00:14:08 2011

23 authfriend 
15 whynotnow7 
 9 curtisdeltablues 
 8 nablusoss1008 
 7 Ravi Yogi 
 7 Denise Evans 
 7 Buck 
 7 Bhairitu 
 5 cardemaister 
 5 Yifu 
 5 Rick Archer 
 4 tartbrain 
 4 Sal Sunshine 
 4 Alex Stanley 
 3 Xenophaneros Anartaxius 
 2 wayback71 
 2 sittingduck165203 
 2 maskedzebra 
 2 Tom Pall 
 1 yifuxero 
 1 shukra69 
 1 seventhray1 
 1 seekliberation 
 1 merudanda 
 1 merlin 
 1 m 13 
 1 johnt 
 1 haa...@fastmail.fm
 1 Yifu Xero 
 1 Vaj 

Posters: 30
Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times
=
Daylight Saving Time (Summer):
US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM
Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM
Standard Time (Winter):
US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM
Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM
For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Confirmation bias [was:Speculating about CC instead of doing the work]

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
> >
> > "If the mind does not need transcendence, is it not a good thing for the 
> > body ?" Each is a product of the other. Yes, transcendence is always a good 
> > thing.
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I enjoy that expression attributed to the Buddha, "Believe nothing that 
> > > > you hear and only half of what you see". Books fall into the first 
> > > > category. Entertaining perhaps and definitely distracting, but at BEST 
> > > > a rough pointer to truth, after crawling somewhat laboriously through 
> > > > the viewpoint of the writer. Living in the moment is infinitely more 
> > > > informative than scribblings on paper.
> > > > 
> > > > As mentioned before I have a definite opinion regarding Maharishi 
> > > > Mahesh Yogi and his girlfriends. I cannot point to any evidence except 
> > > > my gut. PS I really can't say I do TM anymore, as of about February of 
> > > > this year, 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Why is that Jim, something particular happened ? If the mind does not 
> > > need transcendence, is it not a good thing for the body ?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > though I do think Maharishi lives up to his name big time (aka great 
> > > seer).
> > > 
> > > 
> > > So do I. Once at Buddha Yayanti we were on a boatride with Maharishi on 
> > > the river Rhine. Looking at the beautiful full moon Maharishi was in a 
> > > quiet mood, saying simply; "It is said that the Lord Buddha made 500 
> > > people enlightened. I think we will do better"
> > > 
> > > I know it's not possible, for a number of reasons, to know how many has 
> > > been enlightened by the grace of Maharishi and Guru Dev in the world 
> > > today. But if you can and want to fill in on this, please do !
> 
> 
> Seems you have set your mind at some other goals. Do not hesitate to share.

!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Confirmation bias [was:Speculating about CC instead of doing the work]

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
>
> "If the mind does not need transcendence, is it not a good thing for the body 
> ?" Each is a product of the other. Yes, transcendence is always a good thing.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
> > >
> > > I enjoy that expression attributed to the Buddha, "Believe nothing that 
> > > you hear and only half of what you see". Books fall into the first 
> > > category. Entertaining perhaps and definitely distracting, but at BEST a 
> > > rough pointer to truth, after crawling somewhat laboriously through the 
> > > viewpoint of the writer. Living in the moment is infinitely more 
> > > informative than scribblings on paper.
> > > 
> > > As mentioned before I have a definite opinion regarding Maharishi Mahesh 
> > > Yogi and his girlfriends. I cannot point to any evidence except my gut. 
> > > PS I really can't say I do TM anymore, as of about February of this year, 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Why is that Jim, something particular happened ? If the mind does not need 
> > transcendence, is it not a good thing for the body ?
> > 
> > 
> > though I do think Maharishi lives up to his name big time (aka great seer).
> > 
> > 
> > So do I. Once at Buddha Yayanti we were on a boatride with Maharishi on the 
> > river Rhine. Looking at the beautiful full moon Maharishi was in a quiet 
> > mood, saying simply; "It is said that the Lord Buddha made 500 people 
> > enlightened. I think we will do better"
> > 
> > I know it's not possible, for a number of reasons, to know how many has 
> > been enlightened by the grace of Maharishi and Guru Dev in the world today. 
> > But if you can and want to fill in on this, please do !


Seems you have set your mind at some other goals. Do not hesitate to share.

[FairfieldLife] Re: News blackout about flooding at Nebraska nuke plant?

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
>
> I didn't read the referenced articles or watch the Youtube
> that Bhairitu posted. Just googled "Ft. Calhoun nuclear
> plant". The Reuters article and another one were what I
> was referring to. Smells fishy.

So much for the government-ordered "news blackout," eh?

(I was actually commenting on Bhairitu's post, not your
response.)

A "flooded donut berm" or "aqua berm" seems to be a
big, flexible rubber tube that you place around a site
that you want to protect and then inflate with water,
sort of a portable instant berm.

I couldn't quickly find anything about whether no-fly
zones over a nuclear plant when it's refueling are
standard, but it seems like it would be a reasonable
precaution in case of an accidental radiation release
when the spent fuel rods are removed and new ones
installed.

The All Things Nuclear site (run by the Union of
Concerned Scientists) has nothing on the Fort Calhoun
situation, which suggests to me that it's nothing to
be concerned about. They were posting updates like mad
during the Japan crisis (and are deeply skeptical of
the nuclear industry and governments generally). I'll
keep monitoring it in case they feel like debunking
the scare stories.



 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> > >
> > > Here's a YouTube video that has pictures of the rising waters
> > > around the Fort Calhoun plant and other plants plus local area
> > > TV reports. Apparently the Obama administration has ordered a
> > > news blackout?
> > > 
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvDbB3HqNcA
> > > 
> > > Article about the news blackout first report by Pakistan's
> > > "The Nation":
> > > 
> > > http://www.salem-news.com/articles/june172011/nebraska-nuclear.php
> > > 
> > > (Note the editor disputes that the report of a news blackout
> > > is a hoax but does think the Pakistani article may contain 
> > > inaccuracies).
> > 
> > Here's the relevant comment calling it a hoax:
> > 
> > -
> > Laughing June 17, 2011 3:55 pm (Pacific time)
> > 
> > This article is by well-known disinfo artist "Sorcha Faal," whose name is, 
> > as usual, omitted from the unreliable EUTimes web site, and is also not 
> > from Moscow: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread304918/pg1
> > Note that the web site this "news" story comes from includes this 
> > disclaimer: "Some events depicted in certain articles on this website are 
> > fictitious and any similarity to any person living or dead is merely 
> > coincidental. Some other articles may be based on actual events but which 
> > in certain cases incidents, characters and timelines have been changed for 
> > dramatic purposes. Certain characters may be composites, or entirely 
> > fictitious." http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index677.htm
> > A clever mix of fact, fiction, and hysteria ("dramatic purposes") does not 
> > make the fiction part factual. You have been duped.
> > -
> > 
> > Google the name "Sorcha Faal." "She" is notorious for
> > plastering hoaxes all over the Internet. "She" appears
> > to be the alter ego of a computer programmer named 
> > David Booth.
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: News blackout about flooding at Nebraska nuke plant?

[whynotnow7]

I didn't read the referenced articles or watch the Youtube that Bhairitu 
posted. Just googled "Ft. Calhoun nuclear plant". The Reuters article and 
another one were what I was referring to. Smells fishy.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> >
> > Here's a YouTube video that has pictures of the rising waters
> > around the Fort Calhoun plant and other plants plus local area
> > TV reports. Apparently the Obama administration has ordered a
> > news blackout?
> > 
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvDbB3HqNcA
> > 
> > Article about the news blackout first report by Pakistan's
> > "The Nation":
> > 
> > http://www.salem-news.com/articles/june172011/nebraska-nuclear.php
> > 
> > (Note the editor disputes that the report of a news blackout
> > is a hoax but does think the Pakistani article may contain 
> > inaccuracies).
> 
> Here's the relevant comment calling it a hoax:
> 
> -
> Laughing June 17, 2011 3:55 pm (Pacific time)
> 
> This article is by well-known disinfo artist "Sorcha Faal," whose name is, as 
> usual, omitted from the unreliable EUTimes web site, and is also not from 
> Moscow: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread304918/pg1
> Note that the web site this "news" story comes from includes this disclaimer: 
> "Some events depicted in certain articles on this website are fictitious and 
> any similarity to any person living or dead is merely coincidental. Some 
> other articles may be based on actual events but which in certain cases 
> incidents, characters and timelines have been changed for dramatic purposes. 
> Certain characters may be composites, or entirely fictitious." 
> http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index677.htm
> A clever mix of fact, fiction, and hysteria ("dramatic purposes") does not 
> make the fiction part factual. You have been duped.
> -
> 
> Google the name "Sorcha Faal." "She" is notorious for
> plastering hoaxes all over the Internet. "She" appears
> to be the alter ego of a computer programmer named 
> David Booth.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: News blackout about flooding at Nebraska nuke plant?

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> Here's a YouTube video that has pictures of the rising waters
> around the Fort Calhoun plant and other plants plus local area
> TV reports. Apparently the Obama administration has ordered a
> news blackout?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvDbB3HqNcA
> 
> Article about the news blackout first report by Pakistan's
> "The Nation":
> 
> http://www.salem-news.com/articles/june172011/nebraska-nuclear.php
> 
> (Note the editor disputes that the report of a news blackout
> is a hoax but does think the Pakistani article may contain 
> inaccuracies).

Here's the relevant comment calling it a hoax:

-
Laughing June 17, 2011 3:55 pm (Pacific time)

This article is by well-known disinfo artist "Sorcha Faal," whose name is, as 
usual, omitted from the unreliable EUTimes web site, and is also not from 
Moscow: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread304918/pg1
Note that the web site this "news" story comes from includes this disclaimer: 
"Some events depicted in certain articles on this website are fictitious and 
any similarity to any person living or dead is merely coincidental. Some other 
articles may be based on actual events but which in certain cases incidents, 
characters and timelines have been changed for dramatic purposes. Certain 
characters may be composites, or entirely fictitious." 
http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index677.htm
A clever mix of fact, fiction, and hysteria ("dramatic purposes") does not make 
the fiction part factual. You have been duped.
-

Google the name "Sorcha Faal." "She" is notorious for
plastering hoaxes all over the Internet. "She" appears
to be the alter ego of a computer programmer named 
David Booth.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma

[Denise Evans]

Reality is subjective - which is why "getting on the same reality page" with 
any discussion is usually not attainable...although I find the discussion 
itself worthwhile.

--- On Sat, 6/18/11, seventhray1  wrote:

From: seventhray1 
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 18, 2011, 1:06 PM















 
 



  



  
  
  
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra  wrote:
 It is just a tragedy how many minds are being weakened and invaded by a 
spiritual context which does not bear a one to one relationship with reality.

And then there are ones own experiences which may be apart from the 
association with any teacher or system of belief which correlate with the 
experiences that have been noted in different traditions, and by poets and 
philosophers as indicative of a diffferent, call it a more refined, style 
of functioning.  And of course, that experience does not care if there is any 
verification of it, or if it gets some fancy name.  
And I don't really follow your initial premise that if this experience was 
"real" or a possibility then it would be confirmed by "reality".  Not getting 
that.  Not sure where the rule book for reality is written, except by maybe the 
laws of physics.



 





 



  

[FairfieldLife] Re: News blackout about flooding at Nebraska nuke plant?

[whynotnow7]

I just read some news reports about this, and a couple of things don't make 
sense: First, the govt. is saying it has created a "flooded donut berm" around 
the plant to prevent flooding. Why flood the moat intentionally? Second, they 
declared a no-fly zone around the plant in April due to routine refueling. Why 
does routine refueling call for such a thing? Not that I am cynical about govt. 
cover stories (lol), but there is a lot of missing info and so far the official 
story is not making much sense. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> Here's a YouTube video that has pictures of the rising waters around the 
> Fort Calhoun plant and other plants plus local area TV reports.  
> Apparently the Obama administration has ordered a news blackout?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvDbB3HqNcA
> 
> Article about the news blackout first report by Pakistan's "The Nation":
> 
> http://www.salem-news.com/articles/june172011/nebraska-nuclear.php
> 
> (Note the editor disputes that the report of a news blackout is a hoax 
> but does think the Pakistani article may contain inaccuracies).
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: *** Urgent - please read news regarding our supplements ***

[whynotnow7]

Live and learn, or suffer the alternative and learn nonetheless...

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
>
> On Jun 18, 2011, at 3:10 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
> 
> > For those interested in the ayurvedic approach to restoring the blood 
> > values to normal, below are the recommendations to help flush toxins out of 
> > the system as quickly as possible.
> >  1. Drink 1 cup of warm/hot milk that has 1 - 2 teaspoons ghee added, in 
> > the morning and evening.  
> >  2. Take 3 grams of Amala powder after each meal. This is available at 
> > Indian groceries or from the inter net. Blend in a blender w/ a little 
> > water. Also a MAPI Amala product named ReGen Vitality is good and available 
> > at the address below
> 
> > These guys are textbook studies in denial.
> Possible lead poisoning?  No prob~~take 2 aspirin
> and call me in the morning. They create the problem,
> then, as a "remedy," the recommend more of their
> own crap.  And, on top of all that:
> 
> Notice that there is no offer of refunds for the contaminated herbal remedy 
> sold by this clinic.
> 
> Sal
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Confirmation bias [was:Speculating about CC instead of doing the work]

[whynotnow7]

"If the mind does not need transcendence, is it not a good thing for the body 
?" Each is a product of the other. Yes, transcendence is always a good thing.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
> >
> > I enjoy that expression attributed to the Buddha, "Believe nothing that you 
> > hear and only half of what you see". Books fall into the first category. 
> > Entertaining perhaps and definitely distracting, but at BEST a rough 
> > pointer to truth, after crawling somewhat laboriously through the viewpoint 
> > of the writer. Living in the moment is infinitely more informative than 
> > scribblings on paper.
> > 
> > As mentioned before I have a definite opinion regarding Maharishi Mahesh 
> > Yogi and his girlfriends. I cannot point to any evidence except my gut. PS 
> > I really can't say I do TM anymore, as of about February of this year, 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is that Jim, something particular happened ? If the mind does not need 
> transcendence, is it not a good thing for the body ?
> 
> 
> though I do think Maharishi lives up to his name big time (aka great seer).
> 
> 
> So do I. Once at Buddha Yayanti we were on a boatride with Maharishi on the 
> river Rhine. Looking at the beautiful full moon Maharishi was in a quiet 
> mood, saying simply; "It is said that the Lord Buddha made 500 people 
> enlightened. I think we will do better"
> 
> I know it's not possible, for a number of reasons, to know how many has been 
> enlightened by the grace of Maharishi and Guru Dev in the world today. But if 
> you can and want to fill in on this, please do !
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: *** Urgent - please read news regarding our supplements ***

[Bhairitu]

On 06/18/2011 02:47 PM, Buck wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
>  wrote:
>>
>>
>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Rick,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There is some discussions now beginning about this and Alex is
>>> already getting it wrong. This is from the Ragu Family Clinic
>>> in Hyperadad run by Dr. Raju younger brother Krishna, not from
>>> the movement's clinic in Delhi.
>> My apologies. I was not aware that there were two different clinics run by 
>> different members of the same family. Aside from that, my information was 
>> correct.
>>
> Yep, word on the street is that five people from Fairfield are with heavy 
> metal poisoning from getting ayurvedic panchakarma treatments in India.  
> Including some TM-Raja.  Problems with Indian 'quality controls'.These 
> people were finding neurological dis-orders afterwards.  The victims are 
> getting chelated as treatment hoping to get the heavy metals out of their 
> systems.

I've talked to people who run companies selling ayurvedic products.  
Like the rest of the supplement industry they would like some regulation 
especially to be sure of the quality and safety of the raw materials.  
Who's the fly in the ointment?  Big pharma, who wants to steal the 
supplement market for themselves.  What big pharma does is lobby for 
regulations that would require testing and equipment too expensive for 
small supplement companies and that big pharma already has instituted 
and on hand.  That's what is known as "pull the ladder up" regulation 
and not fair.

[FairfieldLife] News blackout about flooding at Nebraska nuke plant?

[Bhairitu]

Here's a YouTube video that has pictures of the rising waters around the 
Fort Calhoun plant and other plants plus local area TV reports.  
Apparently the Obama administration has ordered a news blackout?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvDbB3HqNcA

Article about the news blackout first report by Pakistan's "The Nation":

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/june172011/nebraska-nuclear.php

(Note the editor disputes that the report of a news blackout is a hoax 
but does think the Pakistani article may contain inaccuracies).

[FairfieldLife] Re: Raja Luis and Schools in Columbia

[whynotnow7]

Same one. There's one of a little boy just above it, both packed with silence.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
> >
> > Are you referring to the two of kids meditating?
> 
> I was referring to the one of the little girl reproduced
> in merlin's post that I was responding to.
> 
> 
> > YES - definitely can feel the silence. Sheesh, kids these days, popping 
> > into higher states effortlessly, unlike our travails... Actually it is 
> > completely wonderful and glorious. I know so many of them who are in CC at 
> > least - little tiny kids running around as clear as a bell. Very uplifting!
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Oh, my goodness, what a *knockout* photo! They should make
> > > a big poster out of it, but put the lettering underneath.
> > > I'd buy one. Just looking at it gives me the feeling of
> > > transcending.
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merlin  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Raja Luis presented a trailer and an excerpt from the documentary about 
> > > > Father Mejia’s work in Colombia
> > > > http://www.maharishichannel.in/econtact_mailing/MAILING_OUT/2011_06/2011_06_14_raja_luis.html
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: *** Urgent - please read news regarding our supplements ***

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
>
> On Jun 18, 2011, at 3:10 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
> 
> > For those interested in the ayurvedic approach to restoring the blood 
> > values to normal, below are the recommendations to help flush toxins out of 
> > the system as quickly as possible.
> >  1. Drink 1 cup of warm/hot milk that has 1 - 2 teaspoons ghee added, in 
> > the morning and evening.  
> >  2. Take 3 grams of Amala powder after each meal. This is available at 
> > Indian groceries or from the inter net. Blend in a blender w/ a little 
> > water. Also a MAPI Amala product named ReGen Vitality is good and available 
> > at the address below
> 
> These guys are textbook studies in denial.
> Possible lead poisoning?  No prob~~take 2 aspirin
> and call me in the morning. They create the problem,
> then, as a "remedy," the recommend more of their
> own crap.

I guess the strain of saying something sensible about
the MMY interview on Larry King was just too much for
Sal's poor brain. She's concluded that milk, ghee,
and amala powder are available only from the folks
whose herbal products may be causing problems (even
though Indian groceries and the Internet are cited
first as sources for amala powder, and even though
this is not a MAPI clinic).

Therefore, she is sure, the clinic must have
deliberately contaminated its products so people
would get dangerously ill and have to pay big money
to MAPI for milk, ghee, and amala powder.

Oh, yes, and even though the clinic insists that one
go see one's doctor for blood tests immediately.

> And, on top of all that:
> 
> Notice that there is no offer of refunds for the contaminated herbal remedy 
> sold by this clinic.

This is an example of the kind of confirmation bias I
wrote about earlier today, which Sal shares with the
person who forwarded the email to Rick:

Despite every indication in the email that the clinic
is horrified at the problem and is standing on its
head to track it down and to warn those who've been
using the product, the only possible reason this urgent,
almost frantic email doesn't offer refunds is because
the clinic is greedy and unethical.

Couldn't be because the person writing the email was
more concerned about the immediate threat to customers'
health and just wasn't thinking about refunds. No
possibility of an update offering refunds once the
situation is more under control. Nope nope nope.

They're "in denial." The problem doesn't exist, and
even if it did, they wouldn't do anything about it,
as far as Sal is concerned. The email Rick reproduced
doesn't exist either, in Sal's mind, and even if it
did, it wouldn't say what it does.

*Who* is in denial, now??

[FairfieldLife] Re: Raja Luis and Schools in Columbia

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
>
> Are you referring to the two of kids meditating?

I was referring to the one of the little girl reproduced
in merlin's post that I was responding to.


> YES - definitely can feel the silence. Sheesh, kids these days, popping into 
> higher states effortlessly, unlike our travails... Actually it is completely 
> wonderful and glorious. I know so many of them who are in CC at least - 
> little tiny kids running around as clear as a bell. Very uplifting!
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > Oh, my goodness, what a *knockout* photo! They should make
> > a big poster out of it, but put the lettering underneath.
> > I'd buy one. Just looking at it gives me the feeling of
> > transcending.
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merlin  wrote:
> > > 
> > > Raja Luis presented a trailer and an excerpt from the documentary about 
> > > Father Mejia’s work in Colombia
> > > http://www.maharishichannel.in/econtact_mailing/MAILING_OUT/2011_06/2011_06_14_raja_luis.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: Raja Luis and Schools in Columbia

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
>
> Are you referring to the two of kids meditating? YES - definitely can feel 
> the silence. Sheesh, kids these days, popping into higher states 
> effortlessly, unlike our travails... Actually it is completely wonderful and 
> glorious. I know so many of them who are in CC at least - little tiny kids 
> running around as clear as a bell. Very uplifting!


I forgot the exacte date but believe it was the day before Guru Purnimah 1977 
when Maharishi came down to the lecture hall and said; "From this morning the 
channels for higher evolved beings to born on earth have been opened"

That's all, he gave no details and said no more on the subject. Only two years 
before he had inaugurated "The Age of Enlightenment", things were moving fast 
indeed !

Some years later he said "As usual, nature gives insights during Brahma 
Muhurtha"

Now we see the result of that proclamation in the "little tiny kids running 
around as clear as a bell".

[FairfieldLife] Re: *** Urgent - please read news regarding our supplements ***

[Buck]

Om, you would know that ordinary meditators get kick out of the domes for 
consulting and using non-TM-movement joytish and yagya programs.  What about 
these TM-Raja who would be going off over to that non-TM Dr. Raja's clinic for 
non-TM ayurvedic remedies at considerably less than TM prices?  These people 
obviously went off the program and wrecked up their meditating physiology to 
boot.  Should they get to still stay in the domes trying to meditate?  Money 
speaks evidently.  


>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"  
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > Hi Rick,
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > There is some discussions now beginning about this and Alex is
> > > already getting it wrong. This is from the Ragu Family Clinic
> > > in Hyperadad run by Dr. Raju younger brother Krishna, not from
> > > the movement's clinic in Delhi.
> > 
> > My apologies. I was not aware that there were two different clinics run by 
> > different members of the same family. Aside from that, my information was 
> > correct.
> >
> 
> Yep, word on the street is that five people from Fairfield are with heavy 
> metal poisoning from getting ayurvedic panchakarma treatments in India.  
> Including some TM-Raja.  Problems with Indian 'quality controls'.These 
> people were finding neurological dis-orders afterwards.  The victims are 
> getting chelated as treatment hoping to get the heavy metals out of their 
> systems.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: *** Urgent - please read news regarding our supplements ***

[Buck]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"  
wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Hi Rick,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > There is some discussions now beginning about this and Alex is
> > already getting it wrong. This is from the Ragu Family Clinic
> > in Hyperadad run by Dr. Raju younger brother Krishna, not from
> > the movement's clinic in Delhi.
> 
> My apologies. I was not aware that there were two different clinics run by 
> different members of the same family. Aside from that, my information was 
> correct.
>

Yep, word on the street is that five people from Fairfield are with heavy metal 
poisoning from getting ayurvedic panchakarma treatments in India.  Including 
some TM-Raja.  Problems with Indian 'quality controls'.These people were 
finding neurological dis-orders afterwards.  The victims are getting chelated 
as treatment hoping to get the heavy metals out of their systems.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Confirmation bias [was:Speculating about CC instead of doing the work]

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
>
> I enjoy that expression attributed to the Buddha, "Believe nothing that you 
> hear and only half of what you see". Books fall into the first category. 
> Entertaining perhaps and definitely distracting, but at BEST a rough pointer 
> to truth, after crawling somewhat laboriously through the viewpoint of the 
> writer. Living in the moment is infinitely more informative than scribblings 
> on paper.
> 
> As mentioned before I have a definite opinion regarding Maharishi Mahesh Yogi 
> and his girlfriends. I cannot point to any evidence except my gut. PS I 
> really can't say I do TM anymore, as of about February of this year, 



Why is that Jim, something particular happened ? If the mind does not need 
transcendence, is it not a good thing for the body ?


though I do think Maharishi lives up to his name big time (aka great seer).


So do I. Once at Buddha Yayanti we were on a boatride with Maharishi on the 
river Rhine. Looking at the beautiful full moon Maharishi was in a quiet mood, 
saying simply; "It is said that the Lord Buddha made 500 people enlightened. I 
think we will do better"

I know it's not possible, for a number of reasons, to know how many has been 
enlightened by the grace of Maharishi and Guru Dev in the world today. But if 
you can and want to fill in on this, please do !

[FairfieldLife] Re: *** Urgent - please read news regarding our supplements ***

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
>
> 
> Hi Rick,
> 
>  
> 
> There is some discussions now beginning about this and Alex is
> already getting it wrong. This is from the Ragu Family Clinic
> in Hyperadad run by Dr. Raju younger brother Krishna, not from
> the movement's clinic in Delhi.

My apologies. I was not aware that there were two different clinics run by 
different members of the same family. Aside from that, my information was 
correct.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Android Security?

[Bhairitu]

On 06/18/2011 01:53 PM, cardemaister wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> the
>> iPhone charging $20 t $25 for 1 film.  What a rip off!   All these are
>> is a thin plastic film with adhesive on them.
>>
> Got five of those for my ZTE Blade:
>
> *5x Anti Glare Screen Protector* Guard for ZTE Blade  1   $5.49 USD   
> $5.49 USD

Oops.  I meant iPad.  The A500 is also a 10" tablet.  And what I wanted 
to do at Fry's was check the weight of the iPad to compare with the 
A500.  Supposedly the iPad is lighter but that's all relative.  However 
they really don't have iPads on display like they have the Android and 
even Windows tablets.  Too paranoid about people stealing them I guess 
but some of the other tablet cost as much as the iPad and they're on 
display to play with.  Go figure.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Android Security?

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
the 
> iPhone charging $20 t $25 for 1 film.  What a rip off!   All these are 
> is a thin plastic film with adhesive on them.
>

Got five of those for my ZTE Blade:

*5x Anti Glare Screen Protector* Guard for ZTE Blade1   $5.49 USD   
$5.49 USD

Re: [FairfieldLife] *** Urgent - please read news regarding our supplements ***

[Sal Sunshine]

On Jun 18, 2011, at 3:10 PM, Rick Archer wrote:

> For those interested in the ayurvedic approach to restoring the blood values 
> to normal, below are the recommendations to help flush toxins out of the 
> system as quickly as possible.
>  1. Drink 1 cup of warm/hot milk that has 1 - 2 teaspoons ghee added, in the 
> morning and evening.  
>  2. Take 3 grams of Amala powder after each meal. This is available at Indian 
> groceries or from the inter net. Blend in a blender w/ a little water. Also a 
> MAPI Amala product named ReGen Vitality is good and available at the address 
> below

> These guys are textbook studies in denial.
Possible lead poisoning?  No prob~~take 2 aspirin
and call me in the morning. They create the problem,
then, as a "remedy," the recommend more of their
own crap.  And, on top of all that:

Notice that there is no offer of refunds for the contaminated herbal remedy 
sold by this clinic.

Sal

[FairfieldLife] *** Urgent - please read news regarding our supplements ***

[Rick Archer]

Hi Rick,

 

There is some discussions now beginning about this and Alex is already getting 
it wrong. This is from the Ragu Family Clinic in Hyperadad run by Dr. Raju 
younger brother Krishna, not from the movement's clinic in Delhi. There was 
also a followup email just received today which I will forward to you following 
this one. Notice that there is no offer of refunds for the contaminated herbal 
remedy sold by this clinic. Please don't use my name if you post this to FFL. 
Thanks.

 

Dear Patients,

I have been instructed to do a mailing so everyone is aware that there is an 
urgent concern with one or more of our supplements. To date, only one problem 
herb has been identified by lab tests from the University of Iowa but more test 
results will be available soon (details below).

 

Please be aware that the family is doing everything within their power to 
locate the problem’s source and we will keep you informed of our progress. For 
safety’s sake, until more test results are received, we ask that everyone stop 
taking all our herbs except for Smriti and Shodhana. (Note: Smriti has just 
been tested safe in a US lab and tests in India have also shown both to be 
safe). Please notify any friends you are aware of that are taking our herbs and 
may not be on our mailing list.

 

Most of you know the Raju family descends from many generations of vaidyas who 
have dedicated their lives to helping others. You can imagine how distraught 
they feel at even the thought of harming someone in their efforts to help them. 
Everything possible is being done to rectify the situation as soon as possible.

 

Below are the facts regarding the herb problem as it stands now:

 

A special Bhasma for stroke and cancer patients (made with some components from 
an outside supplier) has tested positive for lead. Patients using this herb 
have been notified to stop taking it and to see a doctor for testing and 
treatment. If you are taking a bhasma supplement and have not been notified, 
please stop taking it and see your doctor to have your blood tested immediately.

 

(Note: To help with identification - the bhasma in question is a white or 
gray-colored powder and a 3-month supply would cost a few hundred US dollars. 
If there are any questions about this herb, please be sure to let us know 
(contact info below).

 

In addition, we have reports that a few additional patients NOT taking the 
bhasma have had blood test results that show elevated levels of lead and 2 of 
those patients also have borderline elevated mercury levels.

 

In light of these developments, all herbs in the Hyderabad clinic were given 
for testing in India. A number of patients in the USA have given their herbs 
for testing over the last few days to the University of Iowa. These test 
results should all be available by the last week of June, some perhaps sooner. 

 

Free herbs testing is available at the University of Iowa for a limited time to 
Iowa residents – call: 319-335-9819. 

 

It is recommend that people be conscientious and careful about other possible 
sources of toxins. There is no required testing of supplements in the USA. 
Calcium supplements in particular can be a problem for lead. Also large sized 
fish, including tuna, can be a source of mercury and could be a factor in the 
elevated levels of mercury reported above. If you work in an environment where 
industrial chemicals are used, this can also be a source of metals in the 
blood. So if you do test positive and your herbs are found not to be the 
source, please check other possibilities.

 

It is encouraging to know that independent testing of Raju Family herbs in 
years past at USA hospitals has shown them to be safe and well within normal 
limits for purity. The family feels confident that the herb tests will show any 
problem herbs to be isolated and few. Blood tests have also just been done for 
a young woman who has taken many clinic herbs over a several year period—test 
results show she is completely free of lead and mercury.

 

For your protection, and until the problem is clarified and resolved and a 
system in place to insure the purity of the family’s products, we will not be 
shipping any herbs. Also, beginning immediately, the clinic will lab-test every 
batch of herbs before sale or use in the clinic, including oils, and will 
assist any individuals wishing to further test their own personal orders before 
shipment.

 

For those patients who are scheduled to have panchakarma at our clinic in the 
near future, we feel that the testing will be completed very soon. Please be 
assured that no herbs will be used at the clinic that have not been tested and 
verified to be pure. We will also be implementing a system of blood tests for 
panchakarma patients both before and after treatments to screen for problems 
and demonstrate patient progress. Your safety and confidence in our family, our 
treatments, and our herbs is of paramount importance.

 

 

It is

[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma

[seventhray1]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra  wrote:
  It is just a tragedy how many minds are being weakened and invaded by a
spiritual context which does not bear a one to one relationship with
reality.


And then there are ones own experiences which may be apart from the
association with any teacher or system of belief which correlate with
the experiences that have been noted in different traditions, and by
poets and philosophers as indicative of a diffferent, call it a more
refined, style of functioning.  And of course, that experience does not
care if there is any verification of it, or if it gets some fancy name.

And I don't really follow your initial premise that if this experience
was "real" or a possibility then it would be confirmed by "reality". 
Not getting that.  Not sure where the rule book for reality is written,
except by maybe the laws of physics.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Raja Luis and Schools in Columbia

[whynotnow7]

Are you referring to the two of kids meditating? YES - definitely can feel the 
silence. Sheesh, kids these days, popping into higher states effortlessly, 
unlike our travails... Actually it is completely wonderful and glorious. I know 
so many of them who are in CC at least - little tiny kids running around as 
clear as a bell. Very uplifting!

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> Oh, my goodness, what a *knockout* photo! They should make
> a big poster out of it, but put the lettering underneath.
> I'd buy one. Just looking at it gives me the feeling of
> transcending.
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merlin  wrote:
> > 
> > Raja Luis presented a trailer and an excerpt from the documentary about 
> > Father Mejia’s work in Colombia
> > http://www.maharishichannel.in/econtact_mailing/MAILING_OUT/2011_06/2011_06_14_raja_luis.html
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Raja Luis and Schools in Columbia

[authfriend]

Oh, my goodness, what a *knockout* photo! They should make
a big poster out of it, but put the lettering underneath.
I'd buy one. Just looking at it gives me the feeling of
transcending.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merlin  wrote:
> 
> Raja Luis presented a trailer and an excerpt from the documentary about 
> Father Mejia’s work in Colombia
> http://www.maharishichannel.in/econtact_mailing/MAILING_OUT/2011_06/2011_06_14_raja_luis.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: ***Update on Herbs - Indukantam is problem***

[whynotnow7]

Maybe this will convince people to use some judgment and common sense wrt what 
they ingest.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
>
>  
> 
> 
> Dear Patients,
> 
> This is an update concerning the herbs test results at the University of 
> Iowa. Today we became aware that the herb named INDUKANTAM VATI has tested 
> with very high levels of lead. 
> 
>  
> 
> If you have not already stopped taking this herb, then stop immediately. It 
> is strongly recommended that you have your blood tested for lead if you have 
> been taking INDUKANTAM VATI.
> 
>  
> 
> If there is any confusion identifying this herb, please note they are small 
> round hand-rolled black balls, not flat machine-pressed tablets. The surface 
> is a dull black color, not shiny.
> 
>  
> 
> There are 2 herbs with similar names that should not be confused with 
> INDUKANTAM VATI. These are INDUKAANTHAM KASHAYAM (a green capsule) and 
> INDUKANT KASHAYA GHAN VATI (is a brown machine-pressed tablet). These are 
> different herbs altogether and are not the concern of this mail.
> 
>  
> 
> We will update you as more information becomes available regarding this and 
> other herbs currently being tested.
> 
>  
> 
> Email me if there are any questions regarding the INDUKANTAM VATI.
> 
>  
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Ananda Wat
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> IMPORTANT: Please note that gmail’s spammer policy limits the number of 
> mails that can be sent daily from each account. Because of the timely nature 
> on this information regarding the herbs, additional gmail accounts have been 
> opened so we can mail everyone on our list quickly rather than days.
> 
>  
> 
> These temporary accounts should not be used to reply to the above or future 
> messages. If you wish to reply to this message or send other correspondence 
> regarding the Raju Family Clinic, then always use  
>  DrRajuPK@...
> 
>  
> 
> For those that are not inter net savvy, it means if you want to reply to this 
> mail, then click the reply button as usual and copy and paste into the to box 
> this email address:  
>  DrRajuPK@... and 
> then send after you have finished with your message.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> PS If you are in the USA, then you can contact the Doctor below who will 
> assist you in arranging a blood test:
> 
>  
> 
> Laurence Fuortes MD,
> 
> Professor of Occupational and Environmental Health and Internal Medicine
> 
> University of Iowa
> 
> College of Public Health
> 
> 2207 Westlawn Bldg.
> 
> Iowa City, IA 52242-1009
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Confirmation bias [was:Speculating about CC instead of doing the work]

[whynotnow7]

I enjoy that expression attributed to the Buddha, "Believe nothing that you 
hear and only half of what you see". Books fall into the first category. 
Entertaining perhaps and definitely distracting, but at BEST a rough pointer to 
truth, after crawling somewhat laboriously through the viewpoint of the writer. 
Living in the moment is infinitely more informative than scribblings on paper.

As mentioned before I have a definite opinion regarding Maharishi Mahesh Yogi 
and his girlfriends. I cannot point to any evidence except my gut. PS I really 
can't say I do TM anymore, as of about February of this year, though I do think 
Maharishi lives up to his name big time (aka great seer).

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71"  wrote:
"> > You need to read the book if you want to talk about it.  A few people knew 
of this going on back in the 70's and everyone, everyone kept it quiet.  No one 
wanted it to come out even if true.  One, a very smart and devoted person I 
know, spent about 2 years years and their own money investigating the sex 
rumors because they had to know before they could go on giving their LIVES to 
MMY and his organization.  Judith refused to discuss it with  back then, but 
there were other women to talk to.  Generally they did not want to talk about 
the sex, altho they were clear it had happened.   But when he found out the 
information and what he thought to be the truth, he quietly left TM, very 
quietly.  Would not say a word, just left. I believe several other people left, 
quietly, for similar reasons.
> > 
> > I heard of this back in the mid-70's and decided tWhat better way to 
> > imagine that your guru finds you special.  And so I had to be careful about 
> > believing the rumors.  But there is too much smoke around this issue for 
> > there not to be some sort of fire. Too many different accounts. I have no 
> > doubt it occurred, none. And I still do TM, and think MMY was pretty great 
> > in many ways.  He made some mistakes.
> 
> One more thing, whynot.  You don't need to read the book or even think about 
> this or come to any conclusion.  You can ignore it all and that is fine.  And 
> works well for some people. Might even be better for many.  But if you really 
> are interested in getting  to your truth about it all, I think you need more 
> info.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius]

I too thought Ravi's response was thoughtful, and good advice. Spiritual 
movements, any movement really, channels experience in certain directions. Not 
all of this directiveness is conscious, but it functions like brainwashing. 
Having the ability to navigate these impulses that can wall us in takes a 
certain maturity, which Ravi expresses in his post, but if one is a novice in 
this business, one can be trapped. In the TM movement there is the talk of 
'self-sufficiency', yet one meets so many there that seem to have none 
whatsoever. 

So having a healthy dose of caution is a really good thing to have. In some 
cases it might slow down progress if one is over critical, but if you are not 
critical enough, you can get lost. Take a break, research, read things from 
various traditions, and locate experiences of people in these traditions on the 
Internet if you can find them, if that is of interest to you, and see if you 
find something that resonates with you without sending up red flags that feel 
excessively uncomfortable. 

But avoiding discomfort entirely in a spiritual setting gets one nowhere. What 
one needs to learn to distinguish is whether the discomfort is a danger from 
without as opposed to some kind of purification from inside one's own mind. The 
latter is fine, the former is not. I you consider yourself a person with low 
self-esteem, I would be more careful, as low self-esteem makes one more 
impressionable.

You also need to determine if your 'path', if you choose to call it that, is 
devotional, or something else, say, intellectual, as an example. Most movements 
that revolve around a living teacher tend to gravitate to devotion because of 
the character of the followers. Buddhist traditions, especially Zen, tend to be 
more intellectual. But I am not an encyclopeadic source in this regard, and 
this simplistic characterisation is probably not very useful except as a 
starting point.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans  wrote:
>
> This is very thoughtful.  I think I was disappointed in that I had 
> expectations of "feeling" some kind of overwhelming love and compassion as 
> she is the "saint" supposedly dispensing this and no, it was not outwardly 
> apparent.  I did receive a mantra to pray to the divine mother and was put 
> off by the instruction to chant it all the time with "blind faith." The 
> mantra itself is also an outer construct in the way I choose to interpret it. 
>  
> The hours of meditation and energy experienced were powerful and yes, leaving 
> the outer religious construct behind and my overactive brain with it, in the 
> end, I am left with an experience that has spurred a lot of thought 
> internally and a desire to be a more conscious and compassionate person, 
> letting go of so many patterns that are no longer working for me as a human 
> in the last third of her life on this planet.  
> 
> --- On Fri, 6/17/11, Ravi Yogi  wrote:
> 
> From: Ravi Yogi 
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 6:40 PM

> Denise - and as they say you have to pass though hell to get to heaven, so 
> nothing is going to change around Amma because it's a perfect contrast, a 
> metaphor or pun of the play of the opposites, the play of the outer and the 
> inner. There's many who are stuck in the outer, spend their entire lives 
> analyzing and discussing it, some completely close it and project happiness, 
> joy and wonder. The doors of bliss are not opened until you open the door to 
> misery, the Self is not revealed unless you acknowledge the shadow, good luck 
> in your spiritual journey.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Yogi"  wrote:
> >
> > Denise, I'm not sure what your exposure to Eastern spirituality is but I
> > will comment on the outer paraphernalia that you witnessed around Amma.
> > Its very symbolic, the temples in India have a lot of activity and buzz
> > around them, the temple is decorated with pornographic images and demons
> > representing the various desires and negative tendencies; but once you
> > get inside the temple it is just dark and silent - which is in perfect
> > contrast to the outer chaos.>
> > Similar is the situation around Amma, there's lot of buzz, activity,
> > drama around Amma and then there is the silence, the pure awareness that
> > is the Satguru like Amma - providing a perfect contrast between the
> > outer and inner. So I have over the years seen lots of craziness around
> > her - power, control, ego, jealousy - it definitely mirrors the outer
> > world - however there is that amazing contrast of inner silence that
> > grows around you. Then you realize slowly that it was never about the
> > outer, that outer will always be outer but the inner is the one that
> > changes, that you are rooted in your inner silence while being
> > surrounded by dazzling dizzying outer.>
> > I had similar feelings when I met Amma in '95 in Rhode Isla

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The death of the 52 y/o, contaminated herbs, bloods tests required?

[Bhairitu]

On 06/18/2011 11:21 AM, Vaj wrote:
> On Jun 18, 2011, at 12:25 PM, Alex Stanley wrote:
>
>>
>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall  wrote:
>>> Men have taken herbs and now are going to India for PK, have all
>>> been urged to get blood tests, stat.  From what I hear these are
>>> not MAPI herbs that were contaminated, but other herbs imported
>>> from India.
>>
>>  From what I've heard, people are getting the heavy metal contaminated herbs 
>> from Dr. Raju's clinic in India, when they go there for PK. Apparently, just 
>> this spring, there have been five cases of lead poisoning. Lately, MAPI 
>> advertisements have made a point of disclosing that their herbs are tested 
>> for heavy metals.
>
> Since many Ayurvedic meds, esp. siddha meds, contain various poisons and 
> heavy metals as part of their formulas, these do not represent 
> "contamination" but the actual contents of the formulas!
>
> Poisoning from Ayurvedic compounds has been on the rise for years.

Probably from cheap knock-offs or Indians are actually immune to the 
metals and westerners are not.  That ayurvedic documentary on Netflix I 
linked too a while about has a section on that and the physician 
explained how they have to be prepared correctly and even demonstrated 
with his wife by ingesting some.  And I also visited an ayurvedic 
physician just outside of Varanasi who was playing with a prepared ball 
of mercury in his hand.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Android Security?

[Bhairitu]

On 06/18/2011 05:02 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister  wrote:
>>
>>
>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister  wrote:
>>>
>>> Android Security might be one of the ultimatest oxymorons!
>>>
>>> Those two words seem to go together as "well" as meat balls
>>> and Eau de Golgone! LoL!
>>>
>> The most secure mobile phone OS's might well be Blackberry(?)
>> and Symbian, in that order!
> It's easy to be secure when app availability is severely limited. Android 
> allows apps to be installed from anywhere, with no corporate overlords saying 
> what can or can't be installed. The downside to that openness is malware.

There's no such thing as a secure OS.  Hackers will always figure a way 
to hack them.

Android users can install AVG antivirus free either from the market or 
from AVG's website.The other anti-virus firms are jumping into the 
act too.  I don't like having to run an anti-virus and it might not be 
necessary if Google would just check the apps with an anti-virus as they 
are submitted.  It would amount to a short delay for the app to be 
posted.  My bet is Google doesn't want to pay the license those 
companies want so are rolling their own.  This might take a while and 
actually cost more than a license but then they'll own it.

I prefer an open source environment and being able to develop on any 
computer.  With the iPhone you have to have a Mac to develop though 
there are a couple development programs that will do it on Windows but 
either signing or the final build has to be done on a Mac usually by 
submitting the source to their web site.

I've been having fun with my latest Android device an Acer A500 tablet.  
It's very nice.  One thing I wanted for the tablet was a film cover for 
the screen much like the ones I got for my Android phone.  This keeps 
the screen from getting scratched and easier to clean off.  Verizon 
threw in a pack of 3 with the phone.  When I went to Fry's to see how 
much they were for tablets the only ones available so far are for the 
iPhone charging $20 t $25 for 1 film.  What a rip off!   All these are 
is a thin plastic film with adhesive on them.

[FairfieldLife] ***Update on Herbs - Indukantam is problem***

[Rick Archer]

 


Dear Patients,

This is an update concerning the herbs test results at the University of Iowa. 
Today we became aware that the herb named INDUKANTAM VATI has tested with very 
high levels of lead. 

 

If you have not already stopped taking this herb, then stop immediately. It is 
strongly recommended that you have your blood tested for lead if you have been 
taking INDUKANTAM VATI.

 

If there is any confusion identifying this herb, please note they are small 
round hand-rolled black balls, not flat machine-pressed tablets. The surface is 
a dull black color, not shiny.

 

There are 2 herbs with similar names that should not be confused with 
INDUKANTAM VATI. These are INDUKAANTHAM KASHAYAM (a green capsule) and INDUKANT 
KASHAYA GHAN VATI (is a brown machine-pressed tablet). These are different 
herbs altogether and are not the concern of this mail.

 

We will update you as more information becomes available regarding this and 
other herbs currently being tested.

 

Email me if there are any questions regarding the INDUKANTAM VATI.

 

Sincerely,

Ananda Wat

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please note that gmail’s spammer policy limits the number of mails 
that can be sent daily from each account. Because of the timely nature on this 
information regarding the herbs, additional gmail accounts have been opened so 
we can mail everyone on our list quickly rather than days.

 

These temporary accounts should not be used to reply to the above or future 
messages. If you wish to reply to this message or send other correspondence 
regarding the Raju Family Clinic, then always use  
 
drraj...@gmail.com

 

For those that are not inter net savvy, it means if you want to reply to this 
mail, then click the reply button as usual and copy and paste into the to box 
this email address:  
 
drraj...@gmail.com and then send after you have finished with your message.

 

 

PS If you are in the USA, then you can contact the Doctor below who will assist 
you in arranging a blood test:

 

Laurence Fuortes MD,

Professor of Occupational and Environmental Health and Internal Medicine

University of Iowa

College of Public Health

2207 Westlawn Bldg.

Iowa City, IA 52242-1009

 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra  wrote:
>
> Of course it's "anthropomorphism". I take it that the
> unstated premise of people who write on this blog is that
> the universe expresses a providential design and a
> providential execution. The existence of individual
> beings inside a metaphysical context of perfect
> meaningfulness.
> 
> It is of course quite possible there is no such intrinsic
> purposefulness built into the universe. For the sake of
> argument I am assuming the ontological truth of this
> unproven assumption.
> 
> If you start without this a priori given, then there is
> nothing to say about Amma but: This is BS—because I and
> you are cosmic accidents.

("Accidents" is an anthropomorphic concept.)

See, I don't buy the notion of a universe that would be
concerned about humans knowing specific things at
specific times, but I don't buy the materialistic concept
either. Seems to me those aren't the only two alternatives.
I suspect the Reality is just too abstract for our
terminology and conceptual vocabulary to be useful.

But that doesn't necessarily stop us from experiencing
that Reality on an intuitive, nonverbal level.


 And Amma cannot, because of this, represent ANY kind of coherent philosophy 
that has some intrinsic relationship to reality.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra  wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Denise Evans,
> > > 
> > > If Amma were a good thing, the universe would, unequivocally,
> > > be determined to demonstrate this.
> > 
> > I have no dog in the Amma fight, but I'm wondering what
> > evidence *you* have that "determination" in this sense
> > is a quality of the universe. Sounds like anthropomorphism
> > to me.

[FairfieldLife] Linda McCartney's Intimate Photos of the Beatles, Hendrix, and Twiggy

[Rick Archer]

http://flavorwire.com/187793/linda-mccartneys-intimate-photos-of-the-beatles
-hendrix-and-twiggy 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of the 52 y/o, contaminated herbs, bloods tests required?

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> On Jun 18, 2011, at 12:25 PM, Alex Stanley wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall  wrote:
> >> 
> >> Men have taken herbs and now are going to India for PK, have all
> >> been urged to get blood tests, stat.  From what I hear these are
> >> not MAPI herbs that were contaminated, but other herbs imported
> >> from India.
> > 
> > 
> > From what I've heard, people are getting the heavy metal contaminated herbs 
> > from Dr. Raju's clinic in India, when they go there for PK. Apparently, 
> > just this spring, there have been five cases of lead poisoning. Lately, 
> > MAPI advertisements have made a point of disclosing that their herbs are 
> > tested for heavy metals.
> 
> 
> Since many Ayurvedic meds, esp. siddha meds, contain various poisons and 
> heavy metals as part of their formulas, these do not represent 
> "contamination" but the actual contents of the formulas!
> 
> Poisoning from Ayurvedic compounds has been on the rise for years.
>


So, the poisoning is a feature, not a bug.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Confirmation bias [was:Speculating about CC instead of doing the work]

[whynotnow7]

Curtis, I am making the point that AT LEAST no one here on FFL came anywhere 
near any direct evidence of what is being alleged, book or not. I have an 
opinion on all of this, though I didn't want to lead with it, because that is 
all it is, just like everyone else's, an opinion (damn I sound like the turq 
dude, huh?...). However I am surprised at what others are assuming my opinion 
is. Well you know what they say about assumptions...:-)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
> >
> > Funny that the anti-Maharishi, anti-TMO, anti-"enlightenmentudeness"  
> > clique here continuously claims that those who make positive claims about 
> > Maharishi, the TMO and enlightenment are doing so to garner attention and 
> > feel special and elevated above others. The same could easily be said about 
> > those claiming to have had sex with Maharishi. After all, what would be 
> > more special than that? "Look at me, I boinked Maharishi...". Yeah, look at 
> > you, center stage... 
> 
> That might have worked better when she was actually in the movement.  But she 
> took decades to process the experience it all and her account doesn't come 
> off that way.  It is hard to discuss the book if you haven't read it.  But 
> talking about it this way without reading it does reveal some stuff about 
> your perspective.
> 
> The problem with the enlightenment claim is that it IS a claim of intrinsic 
> superiority on whatever you are knowing.  This is just a specific experience 
> and only applies to it.  And it was a special relationship she had with 
> Maharishi with or without the undercover activities. But that doesn't give 
> her the right to tell me she has discovered the purpose of life itself.  And 
> thankfully she hasn't tried.
> 
> > 
> > There is also a propensity among this anti-everything-Maharishi crowd to 
> > question any experience had in the presence of Maharishi. Why not seriously 
> > question these claims of sex? After all, this could be some kind of fantasy 
> > fulfillment for the women involved, after rounding for years and becoming 
> > progressively more and more unstable (as we are always told by the TM 
> > detractors here regarding the results of TM and TMSP). It sounds like 
> > confirmation bias to me.
> 
> No, it reveals yours if you haven't read the book.
> 
>  
> > 
> > Regardless of our opinions, there is zero evidence of Maharishi  having had 
> > sex with anyone. Lots of hearsay, accusations, rumors and beliefs- an 
> > airtight case within airtight minds- however the only things missing are 
> > *facts* and *evidence*.
> 
> So if a person witnesses something or is a participant, their description of 
> it is not credible once it leaves their lips? We are only confident about 
> things that happen to us but shouldn't be fooled by book learning accounts of 
> history? That sounds a bit limited to me.
> 
>  
> > 
> > Seems that going after this sacred cow of MMY having sex isn't in the best 
> > interests of those with an agenda against Maharishi, doesn't support their 
> > story, their version of reality that they cling to so dearly.
> 
> 
> And agenda against Maharishi.  Hate to break it to ya Jim but the guy is 
> totally dead.  We are just discussion different views of history here.  And 
> by not reading the book I'm pretty sure it isn't us who are trying to cling 
> to some version of reality.  Your attempts to discredit the book ahead of 
> time is very revealing about your own bias.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > [Rick wrote:] 
> > > > > > There were numerous witnesses, in the person of 
> > > > > > multiple women. Each had their own "events". 
> > > > > > Only one has had the guts to write a book.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Well, so you now have several people claiming that 
> > > > > several different events happened, apparently 
> > > > > always in private. Still not anything more than 
> > > > > he-said, she-said.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > > But your attempts to make it seem as if you can 
> > > > write it off without reading it because of he said 
> > > > she said is nonsense.  You just don't want to read 
> > > > it.  Fair enough. Your choice.  But assessing 
> > > > credibility ahead of time just reveals how our minds 
> > > > protect cherished beliefs from counter evidence.  
> > > > You are not upholding some principle of not taking 
> > > > he said she said stories seriously.
> > > 
> > > Look, I'm completely convinced the story is true.
> > > But I'm also in total agreement with what Lawson
> > > is saying. You're overinterpreting the point he's
> > > making and attributing it to a belief on his part
> > > that the account is false, but you aren't doing
> > > that on the ba

[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
>
> On Jun 18, 2011, at 11:57 AM, authfriend wrote:
> 
> > He went on to ask about MMY's age and his diet and his
> > health, and then MMY, knowing the interview was almost
> > over, segued neatly into his closing pitch, which King
> > let him finish without interruption.
> 
> > The complete transcript--the Michael Dean Goodman version--
> > is here:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/1455
> 
> And for those who want the YouTube version, it
> begins here: http://bit.ly/clYKWJ

Great, didn't realize it was on YouTube.

> It might give a different feeling than just reading the transcript
> does. It's definitely fascinating.
> I'm pretty sure when MMY started going on, using terms
> not in the common parlance, so to speak~~that LK didn't
> quite know what to say.

Yes, as I recall he got that slightly crosseyed
expression a few times. He asked some good, relevant
questions, though.

> He's definitely going out of his
> way to be respectful and to give MMY the benefit
> of the doubt, no matter what he might be thinking.

That's what I thought. King was never really into
being confrontational, but he wasn't nearly as casual
with MMY as he usually was with celebrities and such.

[FairfieldLife] Raja Luis and Schools in Columbia

[merlin]

Raja Luis presented a trailer and an excerpt from the documentary about Father 
Mejia’s work in Colombia
 
 

 
 
http://www.maharishichannel.in/econtact_mailing/MAILING_OUT/2011_06/2011_06_14_raja_luis.html
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge

[Sal Sunshine]

On Jun 18, 2011, at 11:57 AM, authfriend wrote:

> He went on to ask about MMY's age and his diet and his
> health, and then MMY, knowing the interview was almost
> over, segued neatly into his closing pitch, which King
> let him finish without interruption.

> The complete transcript--the Michael Dean Goodman version--
> is here:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/1455

And for those who want the YouTube version, it
begins here: http://bit.ly/clYKWJ
It might give a different feeling than just reading the transcript
does. It's definitely fascinating.
I'm pretty sure when MMY started going on, using terms
not in the common parlance, so to speak~~that LK didn't
quite know what to say.  He's definitely going out of his
way to be respectful and to give MMY the benefit
of the doubt, no matter what he might be thinking.

Sal

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The death of the 52 y/o, contaminated herbs, bloods tests required?

[Vaj]

On Jun 18, 2011, at 12:25 PM, Alex Stanley wrote:

> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall  wrote:
>> 
>> Men have taken herbs and now are going to India for PK, have all
>> been urged to get blood tests, stat.  From what I hear these are
>> not MAPI herbs that were contaminated, but other herbs imported
>> from India.
> 
> 
> From what I've heard, people are getting the heavy metal contaminated herbs 
> from Dr. Raju's clinic in India, when they go there for PK. Apparently, just 
> this spring, there have been five cases of lead poisoning. Lately, MAPI 
> advertisements have made a point of disclosing that their herbs are tested 
> for heavy metals.


Since many Ayurvedic meds, esp. siddha meds, contain various poisons and heavy 
metals as part of their formulas, these do not represent "contamination" but 
the actual contents of the formulas!

Poisoning from Ayurvedic compounds has been on the rise for years.

[FairfieldLife] Speculating about CC instead of doing the work[was Re:Two...questions from Turq]

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:

> > > > > > Look, I'm completely convinced the story is true.
> > > > > > But I'm also in total agreement with what Lawson
> > > > > > is saying. You're overinterpreting the point he's
> > > > > > making and attributing it to a belief on his part
> > > > > > that the account is false, but you aren't doing
> > > > > > that on the basis of anything he's actually
> > > > > > *said*.
> > > > > 
> > > > > You are right.  In fact he has stated outright that he has
> > > > > not come to a conclusion.  
> > > > > 
> > > > > But my point was that that shaping tells another story.
> > > > > We both know and respect Lawson's intellect.  So why would
> > > > > he call it a he said she said when everyone knows that he
> > > > > said nothing?
> > > > 
> > > > Figure of speech. In this case the "he said" aspect is
> > > > the folks who are denying it.
> > > 
> > > He said she said is more technical than that and does not
> > > include people who where not there in the room of the
> > > alleged event.  It is a statement of parity.  It isn't he
> > > said and later some other people said who were interested
> > > in what happened.
> > 
> > From Mr. Dictionary:
> > 
> > "figure of speech--a form of expression (as a simile or
> > metaphor) used to convey meaning or heighten effect often
> > by comparing or identifying one thing with another that
> > has a meaning or connotation familiar to the reader or
> > listener"
> > 
> > He used the term loosely, not in the legal/technical
> > sense, to mean something that is alleged that can't be
> > verified. You know that, I know that.
> 
> And I believe it was used improperly in this case.

As I said, he didn't use it in the legal/technical sense.
But we all knew what he meant: impossible to verify. You're
trying to make a federal case out of a semantic quibble
because you don't have much else to work with.

> There is a sense of parity in he said she said that is
> critical to the concept.  But if we are going with the
> idea that any concept used as a figure of speech can mean
> anything no matter what the meaning of the concept is,
> then quantum mechanics is mathematically calculated as
> blibity blam, don't ya think?  (just using mathematically 
> calculated as a figure of speech you understand)

Reductio ad absurdum can be a useful tactic in some
cases. In others, it can be a sign of desperation.

> > > > > He is making excuses why it is reasonable that he NOT
> > > > > read the account.  But they are not really reasonable are
> > > > > they?
> > > > 
> > > > He made no such excuses that I saw, Curtis. He simply
> > > > said he didn't intend to read it. Again you're making
> > > > assumptions for which there's no basis in what he
> > > > actually said.
> > > 
> > > No, he also gave reasons why he wasn't going to.  Reasons
> > > that involved shaping.
> > 
> > Please cite them. I couldn't find any. I think you're
> > misremembering.
> 
> I made my case, you didn't buy it.

Nuh-unh. You made a claim of fact. I challenged it. You
couldn't back it up. No case to be bought.

> I'm cool with that and am certainly not going to pour over
> old posts to make my point again.

("Pore over," not "pour over.")

I *did* go back over the posts (easy enough to do with 
Advanced Search if you want to make sure you aren't
inadvertently engaging in misrepresentation). I could
find no reasons given by Lawson for not reading the
book. That's why I challenged you to produce one.

> (this concept will become useful later)

In this case it was more damaging than useful. We'll 
see whether that applies later as well.


> > > But who really cares if Lawson reads anything?  I was just
> > > pointing out that the reasons he gave why it sounded less
> > > than credible seemed bogus to me.
> > 
> > What he said was that it isn't *verifiable*. There's a
> > difference between that and *credible*. He doesn't have
> > to have read the book to point out that it isn't
> > verifiable; and he can't say whether it's credible
> > without having read it. He said explicitly that he
> > didn't dismiss its credibility.
> 
> Funny how clear you were on this very concept with Ravi,
> but are blind to it with Lawson.  I suspect "shaping".

How's that again? I made *precisely* the same case with
Ravi that I did with regard to Lawson.

Did you get enough sleep last night? Because you really
seem to be floundering here.


> > > I think you and I have some pretty high level corroboration
> > > of Maharishi's personal life.
> > 
> > Not that can be *verified*.
> 
> Given the nature of the events this is not a reasonable
> standard IMO.

"Reasonable" isn't the issue. "Possible" is the issue.

> You don't get that in histories and personal accounts.
> What you get is the account and your best guess of how
> credible it is.  You know what assists in this process?
> Reading the book.

Exactly. But Lawso

[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra  wrote:
 
> Of course it's "anthropomorphism". I take it that the unstated premise of 
> people who write on this blog is that the universe expresses a providential 
> design and a providential execution. The existence of individual beings 
> inside a metaphysical context of perfect meaningfulness.
> 
> It is of course quite possible there is no such intrinsic purposefulness 
> built into the universe. For the sake of argument I am assuming the 
> ontological truth of this unproven assumption.
> 
> If you start without this a priori given, then there is nothing to say about 
> Amma but: This is BS--because I and you are cosmic accidents. And Amma 
> cannot, because of this, represent ANY kind of coherent philosophy that has 
> some intrinsic relationship to reality.

By saying that a premise is unstated, you cannot be sure that is the premise 
behind posters' statements. It is not my premise that the universe expresses a 
providential design. But by stating that anthropomorphism is the premise you 
made these posts under, I cannot take issue with that. And they are very 
interesting posts. 

I think metaphysics *is* meaningless, that metaphysics is a poetical way of 
expressing inexpressible experience, just not in any way factual; but that 
meaning is derived nonetheless because we manufacture it in our minds; even if 
the universe is totally deterministic, this process occurs. When this creative 
intelligence of meaning (because this is what makes the world seem as it is - 
this is creation) is added in our experience and we become bamboozled by it, 
this is what I would call falling from the manufactured metaphysical idea of 
grace.

The only way to create a coherent philosophy that has some relation to reality 
is with facts (science). And yet this leaves us only with what a meta-physician 
would call the material world; we can only have ideas about particulars of a 
world fragmented by ideas, beliefs, and try to match up those ideas with the 
particular experiences using observation and logic. When we get to the whole of 
experience, we are at a loss for words, there is no way to experience it or 
talk about it factually, so we revert to poetry as it were, metaphysics. But 
because there are no facts, there is no proof. There is only the experience, 
which is private. To talk about it we need to create a web of surrogate facts - 
fictions - and hope that somehow it will click in the mind of another, that 
they will get the experience without falling under the spell of the story thus 
created.

Meditation is a tool that hopefully will eventually allow the experience of 
seeing through the mirage of metaphysical story telling, and to see the 
relationship of the ideas in our heads to the pieces of the universe that we 
think of as facts, or *real events*, that is, material happenings, and also the 
relationship of those ideas we attach to experiences that seem to transcend 
these material happenings.

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra  wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Denise Evans,
> > > 
> > > If Amma were a good thing, the universe would, unequivocally,
> > > be determined to demonstrate this.
> > 
> > I have no dog in the Amma fight, but I'm wondering what
> > evidence *you* have that "determination" in this sense
> > is a quality of the universe. Sounds like anthropomorphism
> > to me.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma

[Denise Evans]

This is very thoughtful.  I think I was disappointed in that I had expectations 
of "feeling" some kind of overwhelming love and compassion as she is the 
"saint" supposedly dispensing this and no, it was not outwardly apparent.  I 
did receive a mantra to pray to the divine mother and was put off by the 
instruction to chant it all the time with "blind faith." The mantra itself is 
also an outer construct in the way I choose to interpret it.  
The hours of meditation and energy experienced were powerful and yes, leaving 
the outer religious construct behind and my overactive brain with it, in the 
end, I am left with an experience that has spurred a lot of thought internally 
and a desire to be a more conscious and compassionate person, letting go of so 
many patterns that are no longer working for me as a human in the last third of 
her life on this planet.  

--- On Fri, 6/17/11, Ravi Yogi  wrote:

From: Ravi Yogi 
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 6:40 PM















 
 



  



  
  
  


Denise - and as they say you have to pass though hell to get to heaven, so 
nothing is going to change around Amma because it's a perfect contrast, a 
metaphor or pun of the play of the opposites, the play of the outer and the 
inner. There's many who are stuck in the outer, spend their entire lives 
analyzing and discussing it, some completely close it and project happiness, 
joy and wonder. The doors of bliss are not opened until you open the door to 
misery, the Self is not revealed unless you acknowledge the shadow, good luck 
in your spiritual journey.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Yogi"  wrote:
>
> Denise, I'm not sure what your exposure to Eastern spirituality is but I
> will comment on the outer paraphernalia that you witnessed around Amma.
> Its very symbolic, the temples in India have a lot of activity and buzz
> around them, the temple is decorated with pornographic images and demons
> representing the various desires and negative tendencies; but once you
> get inside the temple it is just dark and silent - which is in perfect
> contrast to the outer chaos.>
> Similar is the situation around Amma, there's lot of buzz, activity,
> drama around Amma and then there is the silence, the pure awareness that
> is the Satguru like Amma - providing a perfect contrast between the
> outer and inner. So I have over the years seen lots of craziness around
> her - power, control, ego, jealousy - it definitely mirrors the outer
> world - however there is that amazing contrast of inner silence that
> grows around you. Then you realize slowly that it was never about the
> outer, that outer will always be outer but the inner is the one that
> changes, that you are rooted in your inner silence while being
> surrounded by dazzling dizzying outer.>
> I had similar feelings when I met Amma in '95 in Rhode Island, the
> situation around was just too crazy for me, a bunch of weird white
> people dressed in white chanting Hindu mantras and bhajans. But somehow
> I kept coming back, it was because of her love and my ability to as I
> say, cut through crap or the outer, intuition as some may call it - that
> I have articulated in the above paragraphs.>
> Someone also seemed to have perfectly setup you up for disappointment.
> My inner journey with Amma has been long and arduous. Most of the others
> are as well.>
> The mind is always in a hurry to accept or reject which clearly comes
> out in your story - you accepted and then rejected - there was no
> middle. It's natural mind always seeks the extremes whereas with the
> heart it's not the case. There's no hurry, the fact that you could come
> back home, destroy all the material and post it to this website shows
> there's nothing to worry about, there's no mind control, there's no need
> to even go back to her again.>
> The energy, the emotional upheaval that you felt is also a common sign.
> I felt is as well, it is the gross energy trying to process the subtle
> energy - like you it was very uncomfortable for me as well.>
> But you should go back and check her out again and watch, feel, intuit,
> don't let your mind rush to accept or reject - there's no hurry. Then go
> back home and then you can pick and choose what feels right for you,
> this is a slow process since what you is think right for you changes
> with time, it certainly has for me for the last 16 years with Amma.>
> Also it's easy to get deceived that there's a party line around Amma,
> that there's a set of rituals, ten commandments associated with Amma -
> nothing could be farther from truth. In fact I don't follow the party
> line at all, I don't consider Amma as a God or Devi or some incarnation
> - in fact I don't consider anything outside of me. I was not interested
> in chanting, mantras or rituals, in fact, though born as a Hindu, I
> considered myself more as an atheist growing up. But Amma supported 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma

[Denise Evans]

WOW.  InterestingI should have read this first.case closedwe are 
all enlightened to the degree that we are...Tee Hee.

--- On Sat, 6/18/11, maskedzebra  wrote:

From: maskedzebra 
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 18, 2011, 8:08 AM















 
 



  



  
  
  Dear Denise Evans,



If Amma were a good thing, the universe would, unequivocally, be determined to 
demonstrate this. In fact the universe, reality, has never gone out of its way 
to validate ANY claim of spiritual perfection. So my conclusion is: this 
supposed 'higher state of consciousness' does not exist. Or, if it exists, it 
exists through mystical deceit, and is, therefore, at bottom, an hallucination. 
Assume there really is such a thing as Enlightenment: why, if such a sublime 
and extraordinary possibility is the potential of every human being, there 
remains no convincing and empirical proof of this? I contend because it is a 
much more absolute truth that SUCH AN ONTOLOGICAL STATE OF AFFAIRS IS NOT 
POSSIBLE FOR A CREATED BEING. Reality (what is really the case) knows this; 
therefore the consensus in the West is, either explicitly or implicitly, THERE 
IS NO SUCH THING. This is a lie.



Now let us assume for the sake of argument that I am right. Then what this must 
mean is, that ANYONE who professes to be in a higher state of consciousness 
(like Amma) is not only deceived about this, but necessarily is deceiving 
others. Pray tell: WHY HAS NO ONE BEEN ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE THE TRUTH OF 
ENLIGHTENMENT? Or rather: why has not nature, reality, God, the universe 
decided (out of compassion and love and truthfulness) to make it known that 1. 
such a state does in fact exist, and it is contained within the DNA potential 
of every human being 2. that there are criteria you can objectively apply to 
determine whether someone is enlightened or not, and here they are.



Supposing my thesis is correct (coincides with reality), then this must mean 
that to attribute this metaphysical status or power to another human being 
(who, according to my argument, cannot, based on the nature of what it means to 
be a human being, achieve such a state of consciousness) necessarily means that 
a profound form of deception—in the case of Amma I am sure unintentional and 
unwitting—is entailed in projecting this enlightened idea upon her. Because, 
you see, Denise, IT MEANS THAT ONE IS BEING TAKEN FOR A RIDE INTO PURE FANTASY. 
And this ultimately is destabilizing, dislocating, debilitating—because one is 
experiencing something that does not in fact exist.



Your account of the Amma Retreat bears all of this out. Here is a normal, 
intelligent, skeptical but discerning and sincere person, opening themselves to 
all that Amma has to offer. And what is the result? It is as you have described 
it—and I note this: I COULD NOT DETECT A SINGLE BIT OF EVIDENCE THAT YOU 
YOURSELF WERE PREJUDICED—or that there was anything within you which would 
preclude you from forming a reasonably objective and normal judgment of what 
you witnessed at this Amma Retreat. And THAT is the most critical and 
confronting truth in your account: as in: IS THIS PERSON'S OWN BIASES 
PREVENTING HER FROM HAVING THE KIND OF EXPERIENCE SHE WOULD HAVE HAD HAD SHE 
NOT BEEN CLOSED TO REALITY?



Not a chance. How you come off both in your original account and then in your 
response to the commentary that others on this blog have offered is as a 
normal, thoughtful, and reasonable human being. The strain and effort to 
somehow pick apart your story is greater than whatever went into your simple 
and straightforward narration of your experience. You are grounded in the truth 
of what I have argued is the case. Those who would try to persuade you—however 
elegantly, gracefully (e.g. the very honest Rick Archer)—that you missed 
something, overlooked something, were oblivious to other aspects of the 
retreat—or misinterpreted what you saw—they bear the burden of proof—AND IT 
SHOWS in the innocent trauma and anxiety (however faint) embedded in their 
responses.



If you somehow got it all wrong, Denise—or even partly wrong—then somehow the 
arguments marshalled by these Amma devotees would act as a countervailing force 
of innocent intelligence against the impression you had formed and the judgment 
you have reached about Amma. Or, you would find yourself attempting to resist 
the dissonance created in your heart by these arguments. I have read your 
responses, and there is strong evidence of just the opposite: you have acquired 
a sense of peace and resolution on this matter, and in encountering the 
perspective of those who would try to persuade you you have not really seen who 
Amma is, or what she is all about, your own position is only strengthened. And 
this is, in my reading of the situation, the most profound proof that: YOU ARE 
FUNDAMENTALLY RIGHT.



Your experience of that retreat re

RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma

[Denise Evans]

This is the larger point.  Having done some rudimentary education for 
myself..we subjected ourselves to 3 days of the Hindu belief system and its 
ritual.  Amma is a Hindu and her message is delivered within this religious 
construct as "truth."  I recently attended a funeral with a Baptist preacher 
who informed the attendees that if we did not accept Jesus prior to death, 
"heaven" would be denied to us.  "Religions" are all used ultimately to explain 
our existence and control the masses.  I am not raising my children to follow 
any religion - we have no crosses in the house and will have no Amma dolls or 
pictures of Jesus or Amma either.  I will encourage my children to take a 
"comparative religion" class in college, however, to understand the different 
constructs - if one stays big picture enough...they all recognize a "higher 
energy" and as such"we are part of the whole."  :)

--- On Sat, 6/18/11, haa...@fastmail.fm  wrote:

From: haa...@fastmail.fm 
Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 18, 2011, 10:29 AM















 
 



  



  
  
  

Rick,

I can appreciate that *you* are able to winnow out that which serves 
you from what doesn't.

But...consider Denise's situation.

A mother introducing two daughters to the Amma circus.

Including one who is particularly impressionable.

Who is likely not well protected by critical acumen.



Of course...

We regularly expose children to our family religions.

Without exercising special concern about irrational imprinting that may 
 occur.

But perhaps this commonplace practice should be looked into as well.

Harvey

 



On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:47 -0500, "Rick Archer" 
 wrote:


 




 


From: 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups">FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups";>FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Denise Evans

Sent: 
Friday, June 17, 2011 7:05 PM

To: 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups">FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com


Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma

 

 














I like the point about the 
caliber of followers - I did meet many interesting and intelligent and kind 
folks.  And, given the size of her following, all personalities will be 
represented.  Overall, my main and only problem was with the message to pray to 
Amma as God, but that is also possibly a reflective response to my bias and of 
my experience.  Years ago, I almost joined an evangelistic Christian church 
because I was so overwhelmed by the love I received from the church members as 
a new prospective member.  But, I couldn't get over the idea that Jesus wasn't 
God and later noted a number of hypocritical behaviors.  Now that I'm older and 
also can be judgemental, etc., I see some of these as the "human condition."  
It doesn't appear that anyone's reality is exactly like another's.  I do agree 
that there are many teachers of many faiths that remind us of the principles of 
love, co

[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of the 52 y/o, contaminated herbs, bloods tests required?

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"  
wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
> From what I've heard, 


Doesn't matter how true it is, Alex have "heard" someting !

Perhaps he is hoping for some kind of pat on the back from the king of 
anti-vedas; the Prolly Lama.

[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of the 52 y/o, contaminated herbs, bloods tests required?

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall  wrote:
> >
> > I know the vague details, but not yet precisely what's going on.
 
> An oldish fellow dies of a heart-attack and thomas pall rush in to make a 
> scandal.
> 
> What is wrong with you ? When did you have a checking last ?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"  
wrote:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall  wrote:
> >
> > Men have taken herbs and now are going to India for PK, have all
> > been urged to get blood tests, stat.  From what I hear these are
> > not MAPI herbs that were contaminated, but other herbs imported
> > from India.
> 
> From what I've heard, people are getting the heavy metal contaminated herbs 
> from Dr. Raju's clinic in India, when they go there for PK. Apparently, just 
> this spring, there have been five cases of lead poisoning. Lately, MAPI 
> advertisements have made a point of disclosing that their herbs are tested 
> for heavy metals.


If this is breaking news, or new information about some slightly older news, 
why not post it with caveat that the outcome is not yet known, as long as you 
mention the outcome is not yet completely known?

What does posting a message have to do with checking? It is known that many 
herbal preparation from India are contaminated with heavy metals. The important 
thing is to find out which ones, and if you are taking any of these things, to 
avoid those that pose a danger. Alt Med is not without its dangers.

I think nablusoss, you are overreacting. Somebody died, there is a suspicion 
perhaps, that heavy metal poisoning might be related to this death. Heavy metal 
contamination of *some* Indian preps is a fact. Not everyone even in the 
movement uses just MMY preps. The outcome of an investigation is not yet known. 
Wait. But think of what the implications are if the suspicions pan out.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma

[haarvi]

Rick,
I can appreciate that *you* are able to winnow out that which
serves you from what doesn't.
But...consider Denise's situation.
A mother introducing two daughters to the Amma circus.
Including one who is particularly impressionable.
Who is likely not well protected by critical acumen.

Of course...
We regularly expose children to our family religions.
Without exercising special concern about irrational imprinting
that may  occur.
But perhaps this commonplace practice should be looked into as
well.
Harvey

On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:47 -0500, "Rick Archer"
 wrote:



From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups">FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups";>FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Denise Evans
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 7:05 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups">FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma



I like the point about the caliber of followers - I did meet many
interesting and intelligent and kind folks.  And, given the size
of her following, all personalities will be represented.
Overall, my main and only problem was with the message to pray to
Amma as God, but that is also possibly a reflective response to
my bias and of my experience.  Years ago, I almost joined an
evangelistic Christian church because I was so overwhelmed by the
love I received from the church members as a new prospective
member.  But, I couldn't get over the idea that Jesus wasn't God
and later noted a number of hypocritical behaviors.  Now that I'm
older and also can be judgemental, etc., I see some of these as
the "human condition."  It doesn't appear that anyone's reality
is exactly like another's.  I do agree that there are many
teachers of many faiths that remind us of the principles of love,
compassion, service, and respect for the environment and that is
all a good thing.


In my dozen years of involvement with Amma, I can only vaguely
recall any mention of “praying to Amma as God”. There is a point
in the prayer Big Swami does after every group meditation where
he refers to Amma as “Mother of the Universe”. I seem to recall
that during the meditation instruction, Amma is suggested as one
of several options one might choose as an object of devotion, if
one wishes to have an object of devotion. Is that it or was it
more specific? Maybe the reason I’m so vague on this is that the
way I’m wired, things that don’t much resonate with me go in one
ear and out the other. I really do take what I need and leave the
rest.





References

1. 
mailto:r...@searchsummit.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BFairfieldLife%5D%20Visit%20with%20Amma
2. 
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BFairfieldLife%5D%20Visit%20with%20Amma
3. 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJydHZiMXQxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5MjAxOTYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDc3MDc2BG1zZ0lkAzI3OTg1OQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzMDg0MTIwMTM-?act=reply&messageNum=279859
4. 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcGUzZ29jBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5MjAxOTYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDc3MDc2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMwODQxMjAxMw--
5. 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/279669;_ylc=X3oDMTM4ODhhcDYyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5MjAxOTYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDc3MDc2BG1zZ0lkAzI3OTg1OQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMDg0MTIwMTMEdHBjSWQDMjc5NjY5
6. 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdWZvZzFhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5MjAxOTYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDc3MDc2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMDg0MTIwMTM-?o=6
7. 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYTQwa3Z1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5MjAxOTYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDc3MDc2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEzMDg0MTIwMTM-
8. 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlaHBnaGU3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5MjAxOTYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDc3MDc2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMwODQxMjAxMw--
9. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
  10. 
http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZGJ2amUwBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzM5MjAxOTYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDc3MDc2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMzA4NDEyMDEz
  11. 
mailto:fairfieldlife-traditio...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional
  12. 
mailto:fairfieldlife-dig...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Digest
  13. mailto:fairfieldlife-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe
  14. http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma

[Denise Evans]

With this takethen devotees have "assigned" divine qualities to Amma and 
hence the "anthropomorphism" label.  It is perhaps splitting hairs to say that 
another perspective is that devotees haven't "assigned" divine qualities - she 
simply IS the divine.  Of course, either way...these thoughts come out of a 
human brain.
I don't profess to know for sure whether there is any intrinsic purpose to the 
Universe or our existence in it - but our human brains sure have been puzzling 
over this for eons - simply that evidence may be an argument one way or the 
other.  

--- On Sat, 6/18/11, maskedzebra  wrote:

From: maskedzebra 
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 18, 2011, 9:59 AM















 
 



  



  
  
  

Of course it's "anthropomorphism". I take it that the unstated premise of 
people who write on this blog is that the universe expresses a providential 
design and a providential execution. The existence of individual beings inside 
a metaphysical context of perfect meaningfulness.



It is of course quite possible there is no such intrinsic purposefulness built 
into the universe. For the sake of argument I am assuming the ontological truth 
of this unproven assumption.



If you start without this a priori given, then there is nothing to say about 
Amma but: This is BS—because I and you are cosmic accidents. And Amma cannot, 
because of this, represent ANY kind of coherent philosophy that has some 
intrinsic relationship to reality.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:

>

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra  wrote:

> >

> > Dear Denise Evans,

> > 

> > If Amma were a good thing, the universe would, unequivocally,

> > be determined to demonstrate this.

> 

> I have no dog in the Amma fight, but I'm wondering what

> evidence *you* have that "determination" in this sense

> is a quality of the universe. Sounds like anthropomorphism

> to me.

>






 





 



  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma

[Denise Evans]

Hmmm.Had to look it up.
"From the perspective of adherents to religions in which humans were created in 
the form of the divine, the phenomenon (of anthropomorphism) may be 
considered theomorphism, or the giving of divine qualities to humans 
(Wikipedia)."
I don't think this concept applies exactly if one believes that, after many 
years of praying to Krishna (which is Amma's story), she had a vision where she 
was essentially enveloped on all levels by Kali and ultimately now...projects 
Devi (a less controversial divine mother to us westerners).
There is "evidence" (first-account stories) and passionate opinion on both 
sides of the question as to whether Amma's org has evolved to a point where 
it's original ideals are suffering from human ego and all that comes with it.  
Time will tell. 

--- On Sat, 6/18/11, authfriend  wrote:

From: authfriend 
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 18, 2011, 8:34 AM















 
 



  



  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra  wrote:

>

> Dear Denise Evans,

> 

> If Amma were a good thing, the universe would, unequivocally,

> be determined to demonstrate this.



I have no dog in the Amma fight, but I'm wondering what

evidence *you* have that "determination" in this sense

is a quality of the universe. Sounds like anthropomorphism

to me.






 





 



  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> I was talking about Dick's show interview that I mistakenly
> thought had the part about Maharishi confirming his single
> but not dating status.  Larry was less provocative but was
> clearly not buying in to the holy routine. He was viewing
> Maharishi as a celebrity which was refreshing contrasted
> with Merv's fawning.

You might want to refresh your memory by reading the
complete transcript, here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/1455

As I said in my other post, King bordered on reverence
with MMY, much more respectful than he was with celebrities.
And he came awfully close to fawning several times.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma

[maskedzebra]

Of course it's "anthropomorphism". I take it that the unstated premise of 
people who write on this blog is that the universe expresses a providential 
design and a providential execution. The existence of individual beings inside 
a metaphysical context of perfect meaningfulness.

It is of course quite possible there is no such intrinsic purposefulness built 
into the universe. For the sake of argument I am assuming the ontological truth 
of this unproven assumption.

If you start without this a priori given, then there is nothing to say about 
Amma but: This is BS—because I and you are cosmic accidents. And Amma cannot, 
because of this, represent ANY kind of coherent philosophy that has some 
intrinsic relationship to reality.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra  wrote:
> >
> > Dear Denise Evans,
> > 
> > If Amma were a good thing, the universe would, unequivocally,
> > be determined to demonstrate this.
> 
> I have no dog in the Amma fight, but I'm wondering what
> evidence *you* have that "determination" in this sense
> is a quality of the universe. Sounds like anthropomorphism
> to me.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
>
> On Jun 18, 2011, at 9:04 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> >> 
> >>> But I "knew" it was Dick Cavett's show.  Till I didn't. 
> >>> So that is what I was googling.  And stupid Google
> >>> searched what I asked for instead of what meant.  Stupid
> >>> Google!
> >> 
> >> Curtis, I remember that show~~clearly.  And it was totally 
> >> fascinating...2 old guys who had seen it all, from almost 
> >> completely opposite sides of life (outwardly, at least) 
> >> rapping.  I also remember that question clearly and how 
> >> uncomfortable I thought MMY looked.  
> >> Sal
> > 
> > Dick was clearly trying to provoke Maharishi into
> > dropping the giggling holy man persona. But you had
> > to be more of an insider to see that switch.  And it
> > happened from inside, not outside.  He too much of a
> > PR pro to let that happen on screen. 
> 
> Larry, not Dick.  And he really wasn't giggling that I can
> remember, at all.  I just thought the question was kind of
> tacky.  I had heard Larry ask things like that of other people~~
> personal questions that seemed more designed for gossip than
> anything else~~and figured his bosses backstage put him up
> to it for the sake of the audience, because Larry himself didn't
> seem all that comfortable with it either.

Total agreement with Sal here. I worked with Michael Dean
Goodman to produce a better transcript than the sloppy one
CNN put up, so I had to listen closely to it several times,
over earphones (which often reveals vocal nuances you don't
really get otherwise), while also watching the videotape.

MMY was very definitely not in giggle mode, he was in
Distinguished Holy Man mode, and that's how Larry King
treated him until that last segment when he began asking
personal questions. That's part of what made it so
discordant, because the rest of the interview had been so
ultra-respectful, bordering on reverent.

Whether it was King or his producers who decided to get
into the personal stuff, it seemed to me King left it
until last because he thought all the other stuff was a
lot more interesting and didn't want to distract from it;
he also pretty clearly sensed the question about children
was intrusive and, as Sal says, tacky. He was aiming to
get MMY to say explicitly that he was celibate, but he
backed off and changed the subject when he saw MMY wasn't
going to do that.

He went on to ask about MMY's age and his diet and his
health, and then MMY, knowing the interview was almost
over, segued neatly into his closing pitch, which King
let him finish without interruption.

The complete transcript--the Michael Dean Goodman version--
is here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/1455

RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma

[Denise Evans]

Could be that your filters are filtering it out - the message to pray to Amma 
and her lotus feet was reinforced on many levels over the weekend.  Of course, 
like I mentioned, I was completely new to Hinduism and I jumped in to 3 days of 
immersion.  I did read an interesting dissertation of late, that speaks to the 
way that Amma is changing hinduism, in part, simply because she is a female 
guru in what has been a male dominated tradition.  
Of course, I wonder if the message is tailored depending on the audience.  Re: 
the IAM meditation that we all had to sign confidentiality agreements 
on...Amma's teachers indicated it was being taught in prisons and to corporate 
america.  I thought it humorous, having spent many years working in a corporate 
environment that one would attend a "meditation" class and be given the visual 
of Amma's feet to bow down to.  I can't even imagine all those suits...too 
funny.  
I bought a book called I AM by Howard Falco before the retreat - have just 
started it.  Originally, I thought it might relate to the philosophy we were 
going to learn, and the cover is great.  I like the first two statements..
"You are an infinite essence revealed in a finite expression, destined to 
experience the truth of all forms.  Continually prodded and nudged into a 
restless sense of movement, forced to evolve by the winds of endless change.  
To humanity, know thyself."
And.
"The journey of self-awareness and self-creation is the very intent of life.  
The capability to understand your true nature, expand your consciousness, and 
"know thyself" is a birthright.  You will not be denied in your search..."  
If there is one thing I currently acknowledge about the visit to Amma - the 
experience overall created a desire in me to understand more of my relationship 
to the Universe and myself as I am simply too deeply exhausted to continue in 
the way that I have lived until now.  


--- On Sat, 6/18/11, Rick Archer  wrote:

From: Rick Archer 
Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 18, 2011, 8:47 AM















 
 



  



  
  
  From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Evans
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 7:05 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma    I like the point about the 
caliber of followers - I did meet many interesting and intelligent and kind 
folks.  And, given the size of her following, all personalities will be 
represented.  Overall, my main and only problem was with the message to pray to 
Amma as God, but that is also possibly a reflective response to my bias and of 
my experience.  Years ago, I almost joined an evangelistic Christian church 
because I was so overwhelmed by the love I received from the church members as 
a new prospective member.  But, I couldn't get over the idea that Jesus wasn't 
God and later noted a number of hypocritical behaviors.  Now that I'm older and 
also can be judgemental, etc., I see some of these as the "human condition."  
It doesn't appear that anyone's reality is exactly like another's.  I do agree 
that there are many teachers of many faiths that remind us of the principles of 
love, compassion, service,
 and respect for the environment and that is all a good thing.    In my dozen 
years of involvement with Amma, I can only vaguely recall any mention of 
“praying to Amma as God”. There is a point in the prayer Big Swami does after 
every group meditation where he refers to Amma as “Mother of the Universe”. I 
seem to recall that during the meditation instruction, Amma is suggested as one 
of several options one might choose as an object of devotion, if one wishes to 
have an object of devotion. Is that it or was it more specific? Maybe the 
reason I’m so vague on this is that the way I’m wired, things that don’t much 
resonate with me go in one ear and out the other. I really do take what I need 
and leave the rest.   


 





 



  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Confirmation bias [was:Speculating about CC instead of doing the work]

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Funny that the anti-Maharishi, anti-TMO, anti-"enlightenmentudeness"  
> > > clique here continuously claims that those who make positive claims about 
> > > Maharishi, the TMO and enlightenment are doing so to garner attention and 
> > > feel special and elevated above others. The same could easily be said 
> > > about those claiming to have had sex with Maharishi. After all, what 
> > > would be more special than that? "Look at me, I boinked Maharishi...". 
> > > Yeah, look at you, center stage... 
> > 
> > That might have worked better when she was actually in the movement.  But 
> > she took decades to process the experience it all and her account doesn't 
> > come off that way.  It is hard to discuss the book if you haven't read it.  
> > But talking about it this way without reading it does reveal some stuff 
> > about your perspective.
> > 
> > The problem with the enlightenment claim is that it IS a claim of intrinsic 
> > superiority on whatever you are knowing.  This is just a specific 
> > experience and only applies to it.  And it was a special relationship she 
> > had with Maharishi with or without the undercover activities. But that 
> > doesn't give her the right to tell me she has discovered the purpose of 
> > life itself.  And thankfully she hasn't tried.
> > 
> > > 
> > > There is also a propensity among this anti-everything-Maharishi crowd to 
> > > question any experience had in the presence of Maharishi. Why not 
> > > seriously question these claims of sex? After all, this could be some 
> > > kind of fantasy fulfillment for the women involved, after rounding for 
> > > years and becoming progressively more and more unstable (as we are always 
> > > told by the TM detractors here regarding the results of TM and TMSP). It 
> > > sounds like confirmation bias to me.
> 
> You need to read the book if you want to talk about it.  A few people knew of 
> this going on back in the 70's and everyone, everyone kept it quiet.  No one 
> wanted it to come out even if true.  One, a very smart and devoted person I 
> know, spent about 2 years years and their own money investigating the sex 
> rumors because they had to know before they could go on giving their LIVES to 
> MMY and his organization.  

I was aware of a similar person. Perhaps it was the same one. When he quietly 
dropped out, it gave more weight to it -- along with other data points here and 
there. Not a Confirmational Bias (CB) thing (which is humorous if we are 
talking about the same person) because I was inclined not to believe such 
things. Back then, around 77, I was open to both sides, and I was surprised a 
bit at my reaction, and that of a close friend who revealed the information, 
that it did not seem to make a huge difference to me. To her it was a much 
bigger deal. 

>Judith refused to discuss it with  back then, but there were other women to 
>talk to.  Generally they did not want to talk about the sex, altho they were 
>clear it had happened.   But when he found out the information and what he 
>thought to be the truth, he quietly left TM, very quietly.  Would not say a 
>word, just left. I believe several other people left, quietly, for similar 
>reasons.

Some long term, early india course teachers seemed to drop out around then. 
Seemed odd at the time. Its only (idle) speculation, but knowledge of such 
events may have been a factor. Others, it appears, who did know, stayed in TMO 
or at least its outer trappings, for decades 
> 

> I heard of this back in the mid-70's and decided tWhat better way to imagine 
> that your guru finds you special.  And so I had to be careful about believing 
> the rumors.  But there is too much smoke around this issue for there not to 
> be some sort of fire. Too many different accounts. 


Yes. That is why the "he said, she said" views appear so simplistic. Its 
ignoring the perponderance of information. Some people would only believe if 
there were video tapes. And even then they would yell "photoshop" (or the video 
equivalent).  For me its in the 98% probability range. Not certain, and not 
something that matters much to me or affects my vies on things TMO and MMY.  
>
> I have no doubt it occurred, none. And I still do TM, and think MMY was 
> pretty great in many ways.  He made some mistakes.
> > 
> > No, it reveals yours if you haven't read the book.
> > 
> >  
> > > 
> > > Regardless of our opinions, there is zero evidence of Maharishi  having 
> > > had sex with anyone. Lots of hearsay, accusations, rumors and beliefs- an 
> > > airtight case within airtight minds- however the only things missing are 
> > > *facts* and *evidence*.
> > 
> > So if a person witnesses something or is a participant, their description 
> > of it is not credible once it leaves 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Confirmation bias [was:Speculating about CC instead of doing the work]

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Funny that the anti-Maharishi, anti-TMO, anti-"enlightenmentudeness"  
> > > clique here continuously claims that those who make positive claims about 
> > > Maharishi, the TMO and enlightenment are doing so to garner attention and 
> > > feel special and elevated above others. The same could easily be said 
> > > about those claiming to have had sex with Maharishi. After all, what 
> > > would be more special than that? "Look at me, I boinked Maharishi...". 
> > > Yeah, look at you, center stage... 
> > 
> > That might have worked better when she was actually in the movement.  But 
> > she took decades to process the experience it all and her account doesn't 
> > come off that way.  It is hard to discuss the book if you haven't read it.  
> > But talking about it this way without reading it does reveal some stuff 
> > about your perspective.
> > 
> > The problem with the enlightenment claim is that it IS a claim of intrinsic 
> > superiority on whatever you are knowing.  This is just a specific 
> > experience and only applies to it.  And it was a special relationship she 
> > had with Maharishi with or without the undercover activities. But that 
> > doesn't give her the right to tell me she has discovered the purpose of 
> > life itself.  And thankfully she hasn't tried.
> > 
> > > 
> > > There is also a propensity among this anti-everything-Maharishi crowd to 
> > > question any experience had in the presence of Maharishi. Why not 
> > > seriously question these claims of sex? After all, this could be some 
> > > kind of fantasy fulfillment for the women involved, after rounding for 
> > > years and becoming progressively more and more unstable (as we are always 
> > > told by the TM detractors here regarding the results of TM and TMSP). It 
> > > sounds like confirmation bias to me.
> 
> You need to read the book if you want to talk about it.  A few people knew of 
> this going on back in the 70's and everyone, everyone kept it quiet.  No one 
> wanted it to come out even if true.  One, a very smart and devoted person I 
> know, spent about 2 years years and their own money investigating the sex 
> rumors because they had to know before they could go on giving their LIVES to 
> MMY and his organization.  Judith refused to discuss it with  back then, but 
> there were other women to talk to.  Generally they did not want to talk about 
> the sex, altho they were clear it had happened.   But when he found out the 
> information and what he thought to be the truth, he quietly left TM, very 
> quietly.  Would not say a word, just left. I believe several other people 
> left, quietly, for similar reasons.
> 
> I heard of this back in the mid-70's and decided tWhat better way to imagine 
> that your guru finds you special.  And so I had to be careful about believing 
> the rumors.  But there is too much smoke around this issue for there not to 
> be some sort of fire. Too many different accounts. I have no doubt it 
> occurred, none. And I still do TM, and think MMY was pretty great in many 
> ways.  He made some mistakes.

One more thing, whynot.  You don't need to read the book or even think about 
this or come to any conclusion.  You can ignore it all and that is fine.  And 
works well for some people. Might even be better for many.  But if you really 
are interested in getting  to your truth about it all, I think you need more 
info.
> > 
> > No, it reveals yours if you haven't read the book.
> > 
> >  
> > > 
> > > Regardless of our opinions, there is zero evidence of Maharishi  having 
> > > had sex with anyone. Lots of hearsay, accusations, rumors and beliefs- an 
> > > airtight case within airtight minds- however the only things missing are 
> > > *facts* and *evidence*.
> > 
> > So if a person witnesses something or is a participant, their description 
> > of it is not credible once it leaves their lips? We are only confident 
> > about things that happen to us but shouldn't be fooled by book learning 
> > accounts of history? That sounds a bit limited to me.
> > 
> >  
> > > 
> > > Seems that going after this sacred cow of MMY having sex isn't in the 
> > > best interests of those with an agenda against Maharishi, doesn't support 
> > > their story, their version of reality that they cling to so dearly.
> > 
> > 
> > And agenda against Maharishi.  Hate to break it to ya Jim but the guy is 
> > totally dead.  We are just discussion different views of history here.  And 
> > by not reading the book I'm pretty sure it isn't us who are trying to cling 
> > to some version of reality.  Your attempts to discredit the book ahead of 
> > time is very revealing about your own bias.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 

Re: [FairfieldLife] My thanks to Paligap...

[Bhairitu]

On 06/17/2011 03:00 PM, turquoiseb wrote:
> ...for turning me on to the UK television series
> "The Shadow Line." Magnificent television, which
> proves my thesis that a great movie is the counter-
> part of a great short story. But a great TV series?
> The counterpart of a great novel.
>
> You who live in the US will have to wait until it
> appears on your TV outlets to understand this.

I haven't tried it but there are proxy plugins for Firefox that will 
spoof a UK IP address which might make the series watchable in the US 
from the BBC web site.  However maybe the BBC can figure out it's a 
proxy and block the video.  As it is you get some message that the video 
is not available in your area.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Prepare Ye the Iowa Nuke Emergency Evac

[Buck]

Yep, I Needs some barns in perfect vastu also for horses.  Would need to move 
right in, on short notice when the time comes.  No fix-er-uppers.  Would prefer 
to be in neighborhood
with meditators.

-Buck


>
> In developing my emergency nuke evac from Iowa plan,
> I am looking for perfect vastu sheep pasture somewhere
> south of the Ohia River or even South of the Mason Dixon line generally.
> 
> Those areas would be out of the way of prevailing jet streams across the 
> northern States. Those vats of spent-fuel rods are both above and below 
> Omaha. The jet stream would proly take the vent radioactivity diagonally 
> towards Wisconsin or northern Illinois and thence to New York City area.  The 
> local winds would spread it eastwards generally across Iowa.  Fairfield might 
> be enough south that only the southern vats of radio-activity would get 
> Fairfield more directly.
> 
> -Buck in FF
> 
> >
> > Jeesus, think of the scale of food contamination of USA poultry, egg, beef 
> > and pork production here just in the prevailing downwind within Iowa.
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > > Time to stock up on iodine?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >
> > > > flooded nuclear plants near Omaha
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Although mostly ignored by the corporate media, and downplayed by the
> > > > Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the historic flooding on the Missouri
> > > > River has partially submerged two nuclear power stations near Omaha,
> > > > NE. One of them, the Ft. Calhoun Nuclear Facility, experienced an
> > > > electrical fire, briefly shutting down spent fuel rod coolant on 7
> > > > June. It is now classified as a "Level 4 Event", the most serious,
> > > > and the FAA has issued no-fly zone around both plants. Readers may
> > > > know that ongoing danger at the Fukushima nuclear disaster comes from
> > > > fuel rod coolant evaporation releasing airborne radiation.
> > > > 
> > > > Flooded Ft. Calhoun power plant image
> > > > 
> > > > Flooding of the Missouri River has been projected to be possibly worse
> > > > than that of 1951 and 1993. Flood levels are expected to continue to
> > > > rise by five feet near Omaha. Some analysts are warning that if an
> > > > upstream Missouri River dam should break, the nukes could then suffer
> > > > a "tsunami type" of flooding. It is becoming understood that the U.S.
> > > > nuclear plants are becoming threatened far more than emergency plans
> > > > anticipated, because of climate change triggered extreme weather such
> > > > as floods and tornadoes.
> > > > 
> > > > To learn the latest on this emergency, click on the following web sites:
> > > > Nebraska Nuclear Plant at Level 4 Emergency (includes Arnie Gunderson
> > > > analysis, and many other links)
> > > > Fire Knocks Out Spent Fuel Cooling at Nebraska Nuke Plant
> > > > America's Nuclear Spent-Fuel Time Bombs
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Prepare Ye the Iowa Nuke Emergency Evac

[Buck]

In developing my emergency nuke evac from Iowa plan,
I am looking for perfect vastu sheep pasture somewhere
south of the Ohia River or even South of the Mason Dixon line generally.

Those areas would be out of the way of prevailing jet streams across the 
northern States. Those vats of spent-fuel rods are both above and below Omaha. 
The jet stream would proly take the vent radioactivity diagonally towards 
Wisconsin or northern Illinois and thence to New York City area.  The local 
winds would spread it eastwards generally across Iowa.  Fairfield might be 
enough south that only the southern vats of radio-activity would get Fairfield 
more directly.

-Buck in FF

>
> Jeesus, think of the scale of food contamination of USA poultry, egg, beef 
> and pork production here just in the prevailing downwind within Iowa.
> 
> 
> >
> > Time to stock up on iodine?
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > > flooded nuclear plants near Omaha
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Although mostly ignored by the corporate media, and downplayed by the
> > > Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the historic flooding on the Missouri
> > > River has partially submerged two nuclear power stations near Omaha,
> > > NE. One of them, the Ft. Calhoun Nuclear Facility, experienced an
> > > electrical fire, briefly shutting down spent fuel rod coolant on 7
> > > June. It is now classified as a "Level 4 Event", the most serious,
> > > and the FAA has issued no-fly zone around both plants. Readers may
> > > know that ongoing danger at the Fukushima nuclear disaster comes from
> > > fuel rod coolant evaporation releasing airborne radiation.
> > > 
> > > Flooded Ft. Calhoun power plant image
> > > 
> > > Flooding of the Missouri River has been projected to be possibly worse
> > > than that of 1951 and 1993. Flood levels are expected to continue to
> > > rise by five feet near Omaha. Some analysts are warning that if an
> > > upstream Missouri River dam should break, the nukes could then suffer
> > > a "tsunami type" of flooding. It is becoming understood that the U.S.
> > > nuclear plants are becoming threatened far more than emergency plans
> > > anticipated, because of climate change triggered extreme weather such
> > > as floods and tornadoes.
> > > 
> > > To learn the latest on this emergency, click on the following web sites:
> > > Nebraska Nuclear Plant at Level 4 Emergency (includes Arnie Gunderson
> > > analysis, and many other links)
> > > Fire Knocks Out Spent Fuel Cooling at Nebraska Nuke Plant
> > > America's Nuclear Spent-Fuel Time Bombs
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Confirmation bias [was:Speculating about CC instead of doing the work]

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
> > >
> > >Using logic and reason to "confirm" an inner feeling. 
> > 
> > Confirmation bias (CB) may include this but in itself much broader -
> 
> > A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people
> > are biased towards confirming their existing beliefs.
> > Later work explained these results in terms of a tendency
> > to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one
> > possibility and ignoring alternatives.
> 
> In many if not most cases here, the TM critics are
> unwilling to acknowledge that their idea-testing is
> biased in this way, but they very often scream
> "Confirmation bias!" when TM supporters suggest
> alternative, more positive possibilities to explain
> something.
> 
> Interestingly, the critics also exhibit a kind of 
> meta-confirmation bias: For someone to merely
> suggest an alternative possibility, without
> insisting that it's the "correct" one, tends to
> "confirm" to the critics that the person making the
> suggestion is biased. They ignore the alternative
> possibility that a party who is neutral on the issue
> in question could also see more than the negative
> possibility proposed by the critics.
>

Some thoughts, not agreeing or countering your points, simply exploring some 
ideas that your post invoked.

In general, and simplistically, there appear to be at least three camps: strong 
belief system or hypothesis of A vs B, and those (C) exploring the issue, 
perhaps in some cases exploring their own biases and questioning their prior 
assumptions. 

Built on this is CB about peoples orientation per the above three camps. That 
is, it appears some assume an explorer, a C, to be either A or B and confirm 
that by looking only at whatever angle the C is exploring on a particular day. 
Which tends to bog down the exploratory process. I agree (if I understood your 
point) that responses that assume one has a firm position, when one is merely 
exploratorally suggesting alternatives tends to bog down discussion.  

And a C may assume everyone is a C -- exploring ideas, assumptions, belief 
frameworks. This too can lead to some interesting, if not also bogged down 
discussions. One is out exploring, assuming others are also, and BAM, out of 
nowhere,one is intellectually mugged. My sense is that back 8 or so years ago, 
FFL had mostly Cs and over time the pattern has shifted towards the polarities 
or A or B.  

Questioning ones assumptions and "fact database" are always healthy IMO. I am 
not sure why there is such apparent resistance to doing so at times (for all of 
us).  I think its a discomfort thing. Its far more comfortable to hear a voice 
or see a factoid (by itself) that confirms our views, conclusions, beliefs and 
inner frameworks. It can be unsettling (and perhaps later exhilarating) to have 
the foundations of ones belief system messed with. It can be existentially 
threatening. 

The degree of threat may be correlated to the firmness of ones beliefs. If one 
holds a belief to be 100% certain, or 99.999%, then the more unsettling and 
threatened on is when that belief is challenged. It perhaps is seen as a this 
or that discrete choice. I tend to (I think I do at least -- an assumption to 
be challenged) readjust probabilities when new evidence is presented. Say from 
belief that something has a 80% probability of being valid, down to 75%. And 
over time, incrementally, an 80% belief may morph to a 20% belief.

There is something however about a (near) 100% belief that appears to be very 
sticky, adhesive, gravitational and inertic. Its hard to move even a few % off 
of it.  
 
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of the 52 y/o, contaminated herbs, bloods tests required?

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall  wrote:
>
> Men have taken herbs and now are going to India for PK, have all
> been urged to get blood tests, stat.  From what I hear these are
> not MAPI herbs that were contaminated, but other herbs imported
> from India.


>From what I've heard, people are getting the heavy metal contaminated herbs 
>from Dr. Raju's clinic in India, when they go there for PK. Apparently, just 
>this spring, there have been five cases of lead poisoning. Lately, MAPI 
>advertisements have made a point of disclosing that their herbs are tested for 
>heavy metals.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Confirmation bias [was:Speculating about CC instead of doing the work]

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
> >
> > Funny that the anti-Maharishi, anti-TMO, anti-"enlightenmentudeness"  
> > clique here continuously claims that those who make positive claims about 
> > Maharishi, the TMO and enlightenment are doing so to garner attention and 
> > feel special and elevated above others. The same could easily be said about 
> > those claiming to have had sex with Maharishi. After all, what would be 
> > more special than that? "Look at me, I boinked Maharishi...". Yeah, look at 
> > you, center stage... 
> 
> That might have worked better when she was actually in the movement.  But she 
> took decades to process the experience it all and her account doesn't come 
> off that way.  It is hard to discuss the book if you haven't read it.  But 
> talking about it this way without reading it does reveal some stuff about 
> your perspective.
> 
> The problem with the enlightenment claim is that it IS a claim of intrinsic 
> superiority on whatever you are knowing.  This is just a specific experience 
> and only applies to it.  And it was a special relationship she had with 
> Maharishi with or without the undercover activities. But that doesn't give 
> her the right to tell me she has discovered the purpose of life itself.  And 
> thankfully she hasn't tried.
> 
> > 
> > There is also a propensity among this anti-everything-Maharishi crowd to 
> > question any experience had in the presence of Maharishi. Why not seriously 
> > question these claims of sex? After all, this could be some kind of fantasy 
> > fulfillment for the women involved, after rounding for years and becoming 
> > progressively more and more unstable (as we are always told by the TM 
> > detractors here regarding the results of TM and TMSP). It sounds like 
> > confirmation bias to me.

You need to read the book if you want to talk about it.  A few people knew of 
this going on back in the 70's and everyone, everyone kept it quiet.  No one 
wanted it to come out even if true.  One, a very smart and devoted person I 
know, spent about 2 years years and their own money investigating the sex 
rumors because they had to know before they could go on giving their LIVES to 
MMY and his organization.  Judith refused to discuss it with  back then, but 
there were other women to talk to.  Generally they did not want to talk about 
the sex, altho they were clear it had happened.   But when he found out the 
information and what he thought to be the truth, he quietly left TM, very 
quietly.  Would not say a word, just left. I believe several other people left, 
quietly, for similar reasons.

I heard of this back in the mid-70's and decided tWhat better way to imagine 
that your guru finds you special.  And so I had to be careful about believing 
the rumors.  But there is too much smoke around this issue for there not to be 
some sort of fire. Too many different accounts. I have no doubt it occurred, 
none. And I still do TM, and think MMY was pretty great in many ways.  He made 
some mistakes.
> 
> No, it reveals yours if you haven't read the book.
> 
>  
> > 
> > Regardless of our opinions, there is zero evidence of Maharishi  having had 
> > sex with anyone. Lots of hearsay, accusations, rumors and beliefs- an 
> > airtight case within airtight minds- however the only things missing are 
> > *facts* and *evidence*.
> 
> So if a person witnesses something or is a participant, their description of 
> it is not credible once it leaves their lips? We are only confident about 
> things that happen to us but shouldn't be fooled by book learning accounts of 
> history? That sounds a bit limited to me.
> 
>  
> > 
> > Seems that going after this sacred cow of MMY having sex isn't in the best 
> > interests of those with an agenda against Maharishi, doesn't support their 
> > story, their version of reality that they cling to so dearly.
> 
> 
> And agenda against Maharishi.  Hate to break it to ya Jim but the guy is 
> totally dead.  We are just discussion different views of history here.  And 
> by not reading the book I'm pretty sure it isn't us who are trying to cling 
> to some version of reality.  Your attempts to discredit the book ahead of 
> time is very revealing about your own bias.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > [Rick wrote:] 
> > > > > > There were numerous witnesses, in the person of 
> > > > > > multiple women. Each had their own "events". 
> > > > > > Only one has had the guts to write a book.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Well, so you now have several people claiming that 
> > > > > several different events happened, apparently 
> > > > > always in private. Still not anything more than 
> > > > > he-said, she-said.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Trying to get to that Weiner level of media exposure this month!

[Bhairitu]

On 06/18/2011 08:34 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> Here is a news piece on a cigar box guitar project in a middle school I was 
> involved in that aired yesterday.  This was one of the most moving 
> educational projects I have been been in.
>
> http://www.wusa9.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=1000247818001

Cool!  Maybe the "Treme" folks will see it and roll you into an episode 
next season. ;-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of the 52 y/o, contaminated herbs, bloods tests required?

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall  wrote:
>
> I know the vague details, but not yet precisely what's going on.



An oldish fellow dies of a heart-attack and thomas pall rush in to make a 
scandal.

What is wrong with you ? When did you have a checking last ?

[FairfieldLife] new yahoo group for lovers of Maharishi knowledge

[shukra69]

please post information of interest to lovers of Maharishi's knowledge

http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/jaigurudeva

RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Denise Evans
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 7:05 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma

 

  


I like the point about the caliber of followers - I did meet many interesting 
and intelligent and kind folks.  And, given the size of her following, all 
personalities will be represented.  Overall, my main and only problem was with 
the message to pray to Amma as God, but that is also possibly a reflective 
response to my bias and of my experience.  Years ago, I almost joined an 
evangelistic Christian church because I was so overwhelmed by the love I 
received from the church members as a new prospective member.  But, I couldn't 
get over the idea that Jesus wasn't God and later noted a number of 
hypocritical behaviors.  Now that I'm older and also can be judgemental, etc., 
I see some of these as the "human condition."  It doesn't appear that anyone's 
reality is exactly like another's.  I do agree that there are many teachers of 
many faiths that remind us of the principles of love, compassion, service, and 
respect for the environment and that is all a good thing.  

 

In my dozen years of involvement with Amma, I can only vaguely recall any 
mention of “praying to Amma as God”. There is a point in the prayer Big Swami 
does after every group meditation where he refers to Amma as “Mother of the 
Universe”. I seem to recall that during the meditation instruction, Amma is 
suggested as one of several options one might choose as an object of devotion, 
if one wishes to have an object of devotion. Is that it or was it more 
specific? Maybe the reason I’m so vague on this is that the way I’m wired, 
things that don’t much resonate with me go in one ear and out the other. I 
really do take what I need and leave the rest.

 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Hal Jordan's Latern Oath

[merudanda]

love it your combination
now Yifu
and Xero again--lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfO5S1Iu_VU&NR=1

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "yifuxero"  wrote:
>
> http://vbonnaire.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/tara.gif
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu Xero yifuxero@ wrote:
> >
> >
http://www.majorspoilers.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10a/hal_greenlanter\
n.jpg
> >
> > Subject: Hal Jordan's Latern Oath:
> >
> > In Brightest Day, In Darkest Night
> > No evil shall escape my sight
> > Let those who worship evil's might
> > Beware my power - Green Lantern's light
> >
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] The death of the 52 y/o, contaminated herbs, bloods tests required?

[Tom Pall]

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Rick Archer  wrote:

>
>
> *From:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
> FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom Pall
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 18, 2011 10:23 AM
> *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] The death of the 52 y/o, contaminated herbs,
> bloods tests required?
>
> ** **
>
>   
>
> I know the vague details, but not yet precisely what's going on.
>
> A man fell over in the Mens Dome, just died.  His body was left there for
> hours, awaiting the medical examiner.
>
> Men have taken herbs and now are going to India for PK, have all been urged
> to get blood tests, stat.   From what I hear these are not MAPI herbs that
> were contaminated, but other herbs imported from India.  I assume the blood
> tests are for some kind of heavy metal poisoning.
>
> This comes from a very reliable source, from within the Mens Dome, from
> within IA.
>
> Oh yeah, it's being hushed up by Dome Security, DEVCO and MUM.
>
> I'll get all the details eventually but right now if anyone happens to have
> the details, post them here, huh?
>
> Is this a recent incident, or is this Harry Pavelka, who died of a heart
> attack in the dome some months ago? (Had a known heart condition.)
>
>
>
I don't know when this happened.That's why I'm asking.  It'll take a
while for me to draw the details out.

The requirement for a blood test is recent.  Happening right now.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge

[curtisdeltablues]

I was talking about Dick's show interview that I mistakenly thought had the 
part about Maharishi confirming his single but not dating status.  Larry was 
less provocative but was clearly not buying in to the holy routine.  He was 
viewing Maharishi as a celebrity which was refreshing contrasted with Merv's 
fawning. 

Another good interview was with Malcolm Muggeridge which they played on 
courses. He has a Monte Python worthy British accent and is obvously skeptical.


  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
>
> On Jun 18, 2011, at 9:04 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> But I "knew" it was Dick Cavett's show.  Till I didn't.  So that is what 
> >>> I was googling.  And stupid Google searched what I asked for instead of 
> >>> what meant.  Stupid Google!
> >> 
> >> Curtis, I remember that show~~clearly.  And it was totally fascinating...
> >> 2 old guys who had seen it all, from almost completely opposite 
> >> sides of life (outwardly, at least) rapping.  I also remember that
> >> question clearly and how uncomfortable I thought MMY looked.  
> >> Sal
> > 
> > Dick was clearly trying to provoke Maharishi into dropping the giggling 
> > holy man persona. But you had to be more of an insider to see that switch.  
> > And it happened from inside, not outside.  He too much of a PR pro to let 
> > that happen on screen. 
> 
> Larry, not Dick.  And he really wasn't giggling that I can
> remember, at all.  I just thought the question was kind of
> tacky.  I had heard Larry ask things like that of other people~~
> personal questions that seemed more designed for gossip than
> anything else~~and figured his bosses backstage put him up
> to it for the sake of the audience, because Larry himself didn't
> seem all that comfortable with it either.
> 
> Sal
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra  wrote:
>
> Dear Denise Evans,
> 
> If Amma were a good thing, the universe would, unequivocally,
> be determined to demonstrate this.

I have no dog in the Amma fight, but I'm wondering what
evidence *you* have that "determination" in this sense
is a quality of the universe. Sounds like anthropomorphism
to me.

[FairfieldLife] Trying to get to that Weiner level of media exposure this month!

[curtisdeltablues]

Here is a news piece on a cigar box guitar project in a middle school I was 
involved in that aired yesterday.  This was one of the most moving educational 
projects I have been been in.

http://www.wusa9.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=1000247818001

RE: [FairfieldLife] The death of the 52 y/o, contaminated herbs, bloods tests required?

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Tom Pall
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 10:23 AM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] The death of the 52 y/o, contaminated herbs, bloods
tests required?

 

  

I know the vague details, but not yet precisely what's going on.

A man fell over in the Mens Dome, just died.  His body was left there for
hours, awaiting the medical examiner.

Men have taken herbs and now are going to India for PK, have all been urged
to get blood tests, stat.   From what I hear these are not MAPI herbs that
were contaminated, but other herbs imported from India.  I assume the blood
tests are for some kind of heavy metal poisoning.

This comes from a very reliable source, from within the Mens Dome, from
within IA.

Oh yeah, it's being hushed up by Dome Security, DEVCO and MUM.

I'll get all the details eventually but right now if anyone happens to have
the details, post them here, huh?

Is this a recent incident, or is this Harry Pavelka, who died of a heart
attack in the dome some months ago? (Had a known heart condition.)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Help a Saint - Lose Your Badge

[Sal Sunshine]

On Jun 18, 2011, at 9:04 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:

>> 
>> 
>>> But I "knew" it was Dick Cavett's show.  Till I didn't.  So that is what I 
>>> was googling.  And stupid Google searched what I asked for instead of what 
>>> meant.  Stupid Google!
>> 
>> Curtis, I remember that show~~clearly.  And it was totally fascinating...
>> 2 old guys who had seen it all, from almost completely opposite 
>> sides of life (outwardly, at least) rapping.  I also remember that
>> question clearly and how uncomfortable I thought MMY looked.  
>> Sal
> 
> Dick was clearly trying to provoke Maharishi into dropping the giggling holy 
> man persona. But you had to be more of an insider to see that switch.  And it 
> happened from inside, not outside.  He too much of a PR pro to let that 
> happen on screen. 

Larry, not Dick.  And he really wasn't giggling that I can
remember, at all.  I just thought the question was kind of
tacky.  I had heard Larry ask things like that of other people~~
personal questions that seemed more designed for gossip than
anything else~~and figured his bosses backstage put him up
to it for the sake of the audience, because Larry himself didn't
seem all that comfortable with it either.

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Confirmation bias [was:Speculating about CC instead of doing the work]

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
> >
> >Using logic and reason to "confirm" an inner feeling. 
> 
> Confirmation bias (CB) may include this but in itself much broader -

> A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people
> are biased towards confirming their existing beliefs.
> Later work explained these results in terms of a tendency
> to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one
> possibility and ignoring alternatives.

In many if not most cases here, the TM critics are
unwilling to acknowledge that their idea-testing is
biased in this way, but they very often scream
"Confirmation bias!" when TM supporters suggest
alternative, more positive possibilities to explain
something.

Interestingly, the critics also exhibit a kind of 
meta-confirmation bias: For someone to merely
suggest an alternative possibility, without
insisting that it's the "correct" one, tends to
"confirm" to the critics that the person making the
suggestion is biased. They ignore the alternative
possibility that a party who is neutral on the issue
in question could also see more than the negative
possibility proposed by the critics.

[FairfieldLife] Speculating about CC instead of doing the work[was Re:Two...questions from Turq]

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> > > > > >
> > > > > [Rick wrote:] 
> > > > > > > > There were numerous witnesses, in the person of 
> > > > > > > > multiple women. Each had their own "events". 
> > > > > > > > Only one has had the guts to write a book.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Well, so you now have several people claiming that 
> > > > > > > several different events happened, apparently 
> > > > > > > always in private. Still not anything more than 
> > > > > > > he-said, she-said.
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > > But your attempts to make it seem as if you can 
> > > > > > write it off without reading it because of he said 
> > > > > > she said is nonsense.  You just don't want to read 
> > > > > > it.  Fair enough. Your choice.  But assessing 
> > > > > > credibility ahead of time just reveals how our minds 
> > > > > > protect cherished beliefs from counter evidence.  
> > > > > > You are not upholding some principle of not taking 
> > > > > > he said she said stories seriously.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Look, I'm completely convinced the story is true.
> > > > > But I'm also in total agreement with what Lawson
> > > > > is saying. You're overinterpreting the point he's
> > > > > making and attributing it to a belief on his part
> > > > > that the account is false, but you aren't doing
> > > > > that on the basis of anything he's actually
> > > > > *said*.
> > > > 
> > > > You are right.  In fact he has stated outright that he has
> > > > not come to a conclusion.  
> > > > 
> > > > But my point was that that shaping tells another story.
> > > > We both know and respect Lawson's intellect.  So why would
> > > > he call it a he said she said when everyone knows that he
> > > > said nothing?
> > > 
> > > Figure of speech. In this case the "he said" aspect is
> > > the folks who are denying it.
> > 
> > He said she said is more technical than that and does not
> > include people who where not there in the room of the
> > alleged event.  It is a statement of parity.  It isn't he
> > said and later some other people said who were interested
> > in what happened.
> 
> From Mr. Dictionary:
> 
> "figure of speech--a form of expression (as a simile or
> metaphor) used to convey meaning or heighten effect often
> by comparing or identifying one thing with another that
> has a meaning or connotation familiar to the reader or
> listener"
> 
> He used the term loosely, not in the legal/technical
> sense, to mean something that is alleged that can't be
> verified. You know that, I know that.

And I believe it was used improperly in this case.  There is a sense of parity 
in he said she said that is critical to the concept.  But if we are going with 
the idea that any concept used as a figure of speech can mean anything no 
matter what the meaning of the concept is, then quantum mechanics is 
mathematically calculated as blibity blam, don't ya think?  (just using 
mathematically calculated as a figure of speech you understand)

> 
> > > > He is making excuses why it is reasonable that he NOT
> > > > read the account.  But they are not really reasonable are
> > > > they?
> > > 
> > > He made no such excuses that I saw, Curtis. He simply
> > > said he didn't intend to read it. Again you're making
> > > assumptions for which there's no basis in what he
> > > actually said.
> > 
> > No, he also gave reasons why he wasn't going to.  Reasons
> > that involved shaping.
> 
> Please cite them. I couldn't find any. I think you're
> misremembering.

I made my case, you didn't buy it.  I'm cool with that and am certainly not 
going to pour over old posts to make my point again.  (this concept will become 
useful later)

> 
> > > > I mean we all have more than a little at stake with
> > > > Maharishi.
> > > 
> > > Speak for yourself. Lawson's never seemed to have much
> > > of a stake in MMY's personal behavior either way, which
> > > could well be why he's not interested in reading it.
> > 
> > As I said, words one way, shaping tells another story.
> 
> Unless you're imagining the "shaping," of course.

I made my case, you didn't buy it.  

> 
> > But who really cares if Lawson reads anything?  I was just
> > pointing out that the reasons he gave why it sounded less
> > than credible seemed bogus to me.
> 
> What he said was that it isn't *verifiable*. There's a
> difference between that and *credible*. He doesn't have
> to have read the book to point out that it isn't
> verifiable; and he can't say whether it's credible
> without having read it. He said explicitly that he
> didn't dismiss its credibility.

Funny how clear you were on this very concept with Ravi, but are blind to it 
with Lawson.  I suspect "shaping".

> 
> > We all came into the book with some standards of what
> > makes an account credible.  Then we read it and applied
> > them.
> > 
> > > But he's always ready to poke holes in folks' reasoning.
> > > I think he's right to point out that we're taking it all
> > > as established f

[FairfieldLife] The death of the 52 y/o, contaminated herbs, bloods tests required?

[Tom Pall]

I know the vague details, but not yet precisely what's going on.

A man fell over in the Mens Dome, just died.  His body was left there for
hours, awaiting the medical examiner.

Men have taken herbs and now are going to India for PK, have all been urged
to get blood tests, stat.   From what I hear these are not MAPI herbs that
were contaminated, but other herbs imported from India.  I assume the blood
tests are for some kind of heavy metal poisoning.

This comes from a very reliable source, from within the Mens Dome, from
within IA.

Oh yeah, it's being hushed up by Dome Security, DEVCO and MUM.

I'll get all the details eventually but right now if anyone happens to have
the details, post them here, huh?

[FairfieldLife] Confirmation Bias -- Discomfort with New Information and Different Views

[tartbrain]

* added for emphais

By: Christopher C. Duke, PhD

Even if you are not a psychologist, you have probably heard of confirmation 
bias. Whether you have heard of it or not, you have most certainly seen it and 
engaged in it. Confirmation bias is the very human tendency to seek out 
information that confirms our existing world views rather than challenges them. 

* Likewise, we tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting our views 
(Balcetis & Dunning, 2006). 

We all know people who have strong political views on particular topics. Are 
they likely to read and watch material that supports their views, or opposes 
their views? What about ourselves? 

*We tend to think of ourselves as rational and logical judges of the world 
around us, but this is often not the case. Confirmation bias is well 
illustrated in the following quote (courtesy of You Are Not So Smart) from 
Terry Pratchett's The Truth.

"Be careful. People like to be told what they already know. Remember that." 

*"They get uncomfortable when you tell them new things. New things…well, new 
things aren't what they expect. 

"They like to know that, say, a dog will bite a man. That is what dogs do. They 
don't want to know that man bites a dog, because the world is not supposed to 
happen like that. 

*"In short, what people think they want is news, but what they really crave is 
olds…Not news but olds, telling people that what they think they already know 
is true."

Confirmation bias is a long established phenomenon in social psychology, but 
more recent research applies confirmation bias to satire. Satire is interesting 
in that it supports one type of argument through making the opposing argument, 
allowing a huge potential for confirmation bias to influence our 
interpretation. As a result, satire is often misunderstood, such as in the case 
of Archie Bunker from All in the Family. Bunker was written as an ignorant and 
racist character, intended by creator Norman Lear to satirize bigotry and be 
disliked by the audience. 

*Surprisingly to Lear, a segment of the audience saw Bunker not as satire, but 
as a role model (Vidmar & Rokeach, 1974).

More recent research has turned its eye to how people interpret The Colbert 
Report. Stephen Colbert, in his own words, plays a parody of certain types of 
conservative pundits. Prior evidence suggests that some of the people intended 
to be Colbert's satirical targets actually believe Colbert supports them, such 
as when Colbert was invited to host the 2006 White House Press Correspondents 
Dinner, or when presidential candidate Mike Huckabee thanked Colbert for his 
endorsement. In the study by LaMarre, Landreville, and Beam (2009) participants 
provided a range of survey data, including their political orientation and 
beliefs about The Colbert Report. More liberal participants believed Colbert 
was liberal and that the show was satirical. More conservative participants 
believed Colbert was conservative and genuinely believed his "satirical" 
arguments. 

*Essentially, viewers of liberal and conservative orientations tended to 
perceive Colbert as supporting whatever views they personally held. Some might 
interpret these findings as unfavorable towards conservatives. 

*However, everyone can be prone to these types of biases, 

**and believing you are immune may make you more vulnerable. Without a doubt, 
political orientation is no inoculation against cognitive and social biases.

Here is one tip for overcoming confirmation bias within yourself: When most 
people do "reality testing" they seek information that confirms their existing 
views are correct. 

*Instead, try to do the opposite. Try to find evidence that argues against your 
existing views. It may be uncomfortable, but it can be more likely to lead to 
information that is accurate rather than just comforting.

[FairfieldLife] Question for cardemaister

[johnt]

What is the literal translation of "Sat Naam" ? Would it be "the Name of Truth" 
Just "Truth Name" or what? thanks for your help

[FairfieldLife] Re: Prepare Ye the Iowa Nuke Emergency Evac

[Buck]

Jeesus, think of the scale of food contamination of USA poultry, egg, beef and 
pork production here just in the prevailing downwind within Iowa.


>
> Time to stock up on iodine?
> 
> 
> >
> > flooded nuclear plants near Omaha
> > 
> > 
> > Although mostly ignored by the corporate media, and downplayed by the
> > Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the historic flooding on the Missouri
> > River has partially submerged two nuclear power stations near Omaha,
> > NE. One of them, the Ft. Calhoun Nuclear Facility, experienced an
> > electrical fire, briefly shutting down spent fuel rod coolant on 7
> > June. It is now classified as a "Level 4 Event", the most serious,
> > and the FAA has issued no-fly zone around both plants. Readers may
> > know that ongoing danger at the Fukushima nuclear disaster comes from
> > fuel rod coolant evaporation releasing airborne radiation.
> > 
> > Flooded Ft. Calhoun power plant image
> > 
> > Flooding of the Missouri River has been projected to be possibly worse
> > than that of 1951 and 1993. Flood levels are expected to continue to
> > rise by five feet near Omaha. Some analysts are warning that if an
> > upstream Missouri River dam should break, the nukes could then suffer
> > a "tsunami type" of flooding. It is becoming understood that the U.S.
> > nuclear plants are becoming threatened far more than emergency plans
> > anticipated, because of climate change triggered extreme weather such
> > as floods and tornadoes.
> > 
> > To learn the latest on this emergency, click on the following web sites:
> > Nebraska Nuclear Plant at Level 4 Emergency (includes Arnie Gunderson
> > analysis, and many other links)
> > Fire Knocks Out Spent Fuel Cooling at Nebraska Nuke Plant
> > America's Nuclear Spent-Fuel Time Bombs
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma

[maskedzebra]

Dear Denise Evans,

If Amma were a good thing, the universe would, unequivocally, be determined to 
demonstrate this. In fact the universe, reality, has never gone out of its way 
to validate ANY claim of spiritual perfection. So my conclusion is: this 
supposed 'higher state of consciousness' does not exist. Or, if it exists, it 
exists through mystical deceit, and is, therefore, at bottom, an hallucination. 
Assume there really is such a thing as Enlightenment: why, if such a sublime 
and extraordinary possibility is the potential of every human being, there 
remains no convincing and empirical proof of this? I contend because it is a 
much more absolute truth that SUCH AN ONTOLOGICAL STATE OF AFFAIRS IS NOT 
POSSIBLE FOR A CREATED BEING. Reality (what is really the case) knows this; 
therefore the consensus in the West is, either explicitly or implicitly, THERE 
IS NO SUCH THING. This is a lie.

Now let us assume for the sake of argument that I am right. Then what this must 
mean is, that ANYONE who professes to be in a higher state of consciousness 
(like Amma) is not only deceived about this, but necessarily is deceiving 
others. Pray tell: WHY HAS NO ONE BEEN ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE THE TRUTH OF 
ENLIGHTENMENT? Or rather: why has not nature, reality, God, the universe 
decided (out of compassion and love and truthfulness) to make it known that 1. 
such a state does in fact exist, and it is contained within the DNA potential 
of every human being 2. that there are criteria you can objectively apply to 
determine whether someone is enlightened or not, and here they are.

Supposing my thesis is correct (coincides with reality), then this must mean 
that to attribute this metaphysical status or power to another human being 
(who, according to my argument, cannot, based on the nature of what it means to 
be a human being, achieve such a state of consciousness) necessarily means that 
a profound form of deception—in the case of Amma I am sure unintentional and 
unwitting—is entailed in projecting this enlightened idea upon her. Because, 
you see, Denise, IT MEANS THAT ONE IS BEING TAKEN FOR A RIDE INTO PURE FANTASY. 
And this ultimately is destabilizing, dislocating, debilitating—because one is 
experiencing something that does not in fact exist.

Your account of the Amma Retreat bears all of this out. Here is a normal, 
intelligent, skeptical but discerning and sincere person, opening themselves to 
all that Amma has to offer. And what is the result? It is as you have described 
it—and I note this: I COULD NOT DETECT A SINGLE BIT OF EVIDENCE THAT YOU 
YOURSELF WERE PREJUDICED—or that there was anything within you which would 
preclude you from forming a reasonably objective and normal judgment of what 
you witnessed at this Amma Retreat. And THAT is the most critical and 
confronting truth in your account: as in: IS THIS PERSON'S OWN BIASES 
PREVENTING HER FROM HAVING THE KIND OF EXPERIENCE SHE WOULD HAVE HAD HAD SHE 
NOT BEEN CLOSED TO REALITY?

Not a chance. How you come off both in your original account and then in your 
response to the commentary that others on this blog have offered is as a 
normal, thoughtful, and reasonable human being. The strain and effort to 
somehow pick apart your story is greater than whatever went into your simple 
and straightforward narration of your experience. You are grounded in the truth 
of what I have argued is the case. Those who would try to persuade you—however 
elegantly, gracefully (e.g. the very honest Rick Archer)—that you missed 
something, overlooked something, were oblivious to other aspects of the 
retreat—or misinterpreted what you saw—they bear the burden of proof—AND IT 
SHOWS in the innocent trauma and anxiety (however faint) embedded in their 
responses.

If you somehow got it all wrong, Denise—or even partly wrong—then somehow the 
arguments marshalled by these Amma devotees would act as a countervailing force 
of innocent intelligence against the impression you had formed and the judgment 
you have reached about Amma. Or, you would find yourself attempting to resist 
the dissonance created in your heart by these arguments. I have read your 
responses, and there is strong evidence of just the opposite: you have acquired 
a sense of peace and resolution on this matter, and in encountering the 
perspective of those who would try to persuade you you have not really seen who 
Amma is, or what she is all about, your own position is only strengthened. And 
this is, in my reading of the situation, the most profound proof that: YOU ARE 
FUNDAMENTALLY RIGHT.

Your experience of that retreat represents the most accurate and meaningful 
take that someone could have—who is being supported by what is NORMAL and true 
and right.

So, for me, Denise: cased closed. Where you went to inside yourself to get your 
experience, well, I contend that that is a place which very favourably compares 
to the place where all these other persons (who revere Amma) get their 
experien

[FairfieldLife] Re: Prepare Ye the Iowa Nuke Emergency Evac

[Buck]

Time to stock up on iodine?


>
> flooded nuclear plants near Omaha
> 
> 
> Although mostly ignored by the corporate media, and downplayed by the
> Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the historic flooding on the Missouri
> River has partially submerged two nuclear power stations near Omaha,
> NE. One of them, the Ft. Calhoun Nuclear Facility, experienced an
> electrical fire, briefly shutting down spent fuel rod coolant on 7
> June. It is now classified as a "Level 4 Event", the most serious,
> and the FAA has issued no-fly zone around both plants. Readers may
> know that ongoing danger at the Fukushima nuclear disaster comes from
> fuel rod coolant evaporation releasing airborne radiation.
> 
> Flooded Ft. Calhoun power plant image
> 
> Flooding of the Missouri River has been projected to be possibly worse
> than that of 1951 and 1993. Flood levels are expected to continue to
> rise by five feet near Omaha. Some analysts are warning that if an
> upstream Missouri River dam should break, the nukes could then suffer
> a "tsunami type" of flooding. It is becoming understood that the U.S.
> nuclear plants are becoming threatened far more than emergency plans
> anticipated, because of climate change triggered extreme weather such
> as floods and tornadoes.
> 
> To learn the latest on this emergency, click on the following web sites:
> Nebraska Nuclear Plant at Level 4 Emergency (includes Arnie Gunderson
> analysis, and many other links)
> Fire Knocks Out Spent Fuel Cooling at Nebraska Nuke Plant
> America's Nuclear Spent-Fuel Time Bombs
>

[FairfieldLife] Prepare Ye the Iowa Nuke Emergency Evac

[Buck]

flooded nuclear plants near Omaha


Although mostly ignored by the corporate media, and downplayed by the
Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the historic flooding on the Missouri
River has partially submerged two nuclear power stations near Omaha,
NE. One of them, the Ft. Calhoun Nuclear Facility, experienced an
electrical fire, briefly shutting down spent fuel rod coolant on 7
June. It is now classified as a "Level 4 Event", the most serious,
and the FAA has issued no-fly zone around both plants. Readers may
know that ongoing danger at the Fukushima nuclear disaster comes from
fuel rod coolant evaporation releasing airborne radiation.

Flooded Ft. Calhoun power plant image

Flooding of the Missouri River has been projected to be possibly worse
than that of 1951 and 1993. Flood levels are expected to continue to
rise by five feet near Omaha. Some analysts are warning that if an
upstream Missouri River dam should break, the nukes could then suffer
a "tsunami type" of flooding. It is becoming understood that the U.S.
nuclear plants are becoming threatened far more than emergency plans
anticipated, because of climate change triggered extreme weather such
as floods and tornadoes.

To learn the latest on this emergency, click on the following web sites:
Nebraska Nuclear Plant at Level 4 Emergency (includes Arnie Gunderson
analysis, and many other links)
Fire Knocks Out Spent Fuel Cooling at Nebraska Nuke Plant
America's Nuclear Spent-Fuel Time Bombs

[FairfieldLife] Speculating about CC instead of doing the work[was Re:Two...questions from Turq]

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > [Rick wrote:] 
> > > > > > > There were numerous witnesses, in the person of 
> > > > > > > multiple women. Each had their own "events". 
> > > > > > > Only one has had the guts to write a book.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Well, so you now have several people claiming that 
> > > > > > several different events happened, apparently 
> > > > > > always in private. Still not anything more than 
> > > > > > he-said, she-said.
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > > But your attempts to make it seem as if you can 
> > > > > write it off without reading it because of he said 
> > > > > she said is nonsense.  You just don't want to read 
> > > > > it.  Fair enough. Your choice.  But assessing 
> > > > > credibility ahead of time just reveals how our minds 
> > > > > protect cherished beliefs from counter evidence.  
> > > > > You are not upholding some principle of not taking 
> > > > > he said she said stories seriously.
> > > > 
> > > > Look, I'm completely convinced the story is true.
> > > > But I'm also in total agreement with what Lawson
> > > > is saying. You're overinterpreting the point he's
> > > > making and attributing it to a belief on his part
> > > > that the account is false, but you aren't doing
> > > > that on the basis of anything he's actually
> > > > *said*.
> > > 
> > > You are right.  In fact he has stated outright that he has
> > > not come to a conclusion.  
> > > 
> > > But my point was that that shaping tells another story.
> > > We both know and respect Lawson's intellect.  So why would
> > > he call it a he said she said when everyone knows that he
> > > said nothing?
> > 
> > Figure of speech. In this case the "he said" aspect is
> > the folks who are denying it.
> 
> He said she said is more technical than that and does not
> include people who where not there in the room of the
> alleged event.  It is a statement of parity.  It isn't he
> said and later some other people said who were interested
> in what happened.

>From Mr. Dictionary:

"figure of speech--a form of expression (as a simile or
metaphor) used to convey meaning or heighten effect often
by comparing or identifying one thing with another that
has a meaning or connotation familiar to the reader or
listener"

He used the term loosely, not in the legal/technical
sense, to mean something that is alleged that can't be
verified. You know that, I know that.

> > > He is making excuses why it is reasonable that he NOT
> > > read the account.  But they are not really reasonable are
> > > they?
> > 
> > He made no such excuses that I saw, Curtis. He simply
> > said he didn't intend to read it. Again you're making
> > assumptions for which there's no basis in what he
> > actually said.
> 
> No, he also gave reasons why he wasn't going to.  Reasons
> that involved shaping.

Please cite them. I couldn't find any. I think you're
misremembering.

> > > I mean we all have more than a little at stake with
> > > Maharishi.
> > 
> > Speak for yourself. Lawson's never seemed to have much
> > of a stake in MMY's personal behavior either way, which
> > could well be why he's not interested in reading it.
> 
> As I said, words one way, shaping tells another story.

Unless you're imagining the "shaping," of course.

> But who really cares if Lawson reads anything?  I was just
> pointing out that the reasons he gave why it sounded less
> than credible seemed bogus to me.

What he said was that it isn't *verifiable*. There's a
difference between that and *credible*. He doesn't have
to have read the book to point out that it isn't
verifiable; and he can't say whether it's credible
without having read it. He said explicitly that he
didn't dismiss its credibility.

> We all came into the book with some standards of what
> makes an account credible.  Then we read it and applied
> them.
> 
> > But he's always ready to poke holes in folks' reasoning.
> > I think he's right to point out that we're taking it all
> > as established fact when there's no way that it could be;
> > no matter how convincing one may find the book, it's 
> > still basically hearsay.
> 
> I think you and I have some pretty high level corroboration
> of Maharishi's personal life.

Not that can be *verified*.

> Is the account of Lincoln's assassination merely hearsay? I
> mean I never got a statement from Lincoln afterwards.

Curtis, you're crashing and burning on this one.


> > Now I want to give you another chance to respond to a
> > question I asked you last week in a post you chose not
> > to respond to:
> > 
> > > > Nobody has ever

[FairfieldLife] Speculating about CC instead of doing the work[was Re:Two...questions from Turq]

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Yogi"  wrote:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Yogi" raviyogi@ wrote:
> >
> > > Would you care to give a brief summary of why you think
> > > it's credible?
> >
> > I read it, and I found it credible. It's hard to say why
> > something like this book has the ring of authenticity;
> > it's more a matter of whether it has any signs of
> > *in*authenticity. And it didn't, as far as I could tell.
> >
> > Part of it is that it's so amateurishly written.
> > Typically, folks who write sensational false exposes do
> > so with a great deal of care because they know what
> > they write is going to be closely scrutinized, and they
> > want to make sure it's as convincing as they can
> > possibly make it. I didn't get any sense of that sort of
> > calculation from Judith's book, but rather of an
> > unskilled, awkward, artless innocence. That's really,
> > really hard to fake.
> >
> > Another aspect--probably even more significant--is that
> > the tone isn't vindictive but instead sad and regretful,
> > almost wistful. That isn't typical of a false expose
> > either. She spends quite a bit of time expressing her
> > great admiration for MMY; she doesn't try to make him
> > into a villain or a fraud as some of the critics here do.
> >
> > So those are two specific points. The rest is mostly
> > intuition: it just *sounds true*.
> >
> Sorry that just doesn't cut it.

Look, you asked me why *I* found it credible, remember?
And I obliged. What I told you cuts it for *me*. If
you'd asked me to tell you why the book should cut it
for *you*, I wouldn't even have tried.

It's ridiculous to argue about whether it's credible
with someone who hasn't even read it.




> > > If you are going to lose any commission on this book
> > > by doing so please forgive me and feel free to ignore.
> >
> > Oh, give me a *break*, Ravi! You sound like Nabby at
> > his absolute worst. Why do you even care about any of
> > this anyway?
> >
> 
> I have a Nabby, a Judy, a Jim, a Rick, a Curtis, a Trickster Turqster, a
> rest of the other posters in me, I always accept everything. And why do
> I care? Why do I care? Goddammit !!! I have an equal right as the other
> posters to indulge in insipid insinuating innuendos.
> I have really a good credible witness that has pointed to the
> involvement of Rick and Curtis here - let's call this credible witness
> Credible Witness "R", I have yet another credible witness, referred for
> simplicity as Credible Witness "A" that has backed up the claims of
> Credible Witness "R".
> There are also two other credible witnesses - for convenience sake here
> referred to as Credible Witness "V" and Credible Witness "I" who have
> graciously agreed to be on standby should the accounts of Credible
> Witness "R" and Credible Witness "A" be ever doubted.
> I, personally have no doubt about the veracity of the statements of all
> these credible witnesses. YMMV.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Confirmation bias [was:Speculating about CC instead of doing the work]

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
>
> Funny that the anti-Maharishi, anti-TMO, anti-"enlightenmentudeness"  clique 
> here continuously claims that those who make positive claims about Maharishi, 
> the TMO and enlightenment are doing so to garner attention and feel special 
> and elevated above others. The same could easily be said about those claiming 
> to have had sex with Maharishi. After all, what would be more special than 
> that? "Look at me, I boinked Maharishi...". Yeah, look at you, center 
> stage... 

That might have worked better when she was actually in the movement.  But she 
took decades to process the experience it all and her account doesn't come off 
that way.  It is hard to discuss the book if you haven't read it.  But talking 
about it this way without reading it does reveal some stuff about your 
perspective.

The problem with the enlightenment claim is that it IS a claim of intrinsic 
superiority on whatever you are knowing.  This is just a specific experience 
and only applies to it.  And it was a special relationship she had with 
Maharishi with or without the undercover activities. But that doesn't give her 
the right to tell me she has discovered the purpose of life itself.  And 
thankfully she hasn't tried.

> 
> There is also a propensity among this anti-everything-Maharishi crowd to 
> question any experience had in the presence of Maharishi. Why not seriously 
> question these claims of sex? After all, this could be some kind of fantasy 
> fulfillment for the women involved, after rounding for years and becoming 
> progressively more and more unstable (as we are always told by the TM 
> detractors here regarding the results of TM and TMSP). It sounds like 
> confirmation bias to me.

No, it reveals yours if you haven't read the book.

 
> 
> Regardless of our opinions, there is zero evidence of Maharishi  having had 
> sex with anyone. Lots of hearsay, accusations, rumors and beliefs- an 
> airtight case within airtight minds- however the only things missing are 
> *facts* and *evidence*.

So if a person witnesses something or is a participant, their description of it 
is not credible once it leaves their lips? We are only confident about things 
that happen to us but shouldn't be fooled by book learning accounts of history? 
That sounds a bit limited to me.

 
> 
> Seems that going after this sacred cow of MMY having sex isn't in the best 
> interests of those with an agenda against Maharishi, doesn't support their 
> story, their version of reality that they cling to so dearly.


And agenda against Maharishi.  Hate to break it to ya Jim but the guy is 
totally dead.  We are just discussion different views of history here.  And by 
not reading the book I'm pretty sure it isn't us who are trying to cling to 
some version of reality.  Your attempts to discredit the book ahead of time is 
very revealing about your own bias.




 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > >
> > [Rick wrote:] 
> > > > > There were numerous witnesses, in the person of 
> > > > > multiple women. Each had their own "events". 
> > > > > Only one has had the guts to write a book.
> > > > 
> > > > Well, so you now have several people claiming that 
> > > > several different events happened, apparently 
> > > > always in private. Still not anything more than 
> > > > he-said, she-said.
> > >
> > 
> > > But your attempts to make it seem as if you can 
> > > write it off without reading it because of he said 
> > > she said is nonsense.  You just don't want to read 
> > > it.  Fair enough. Your choice.  But assessing 
> > > credibility ahead of time just reveals how our minds 
> > > protect cherished beliefs from counter evidence.  
> > > You are not upholding some principle of not taking 
> > > he said she said stories seriously.
> > 
> > Look, I'm completely convinced the story is true.
> > But I'm also in total agreement with what Lawson
> > is saying. You're overinterpreting the point he's
> > making and attributing it to a belief on his part
> > that the account is false, but you aren't doing
> > that on the basis of anything he's actually
> > *said*.
> > 
> > (Actually I don't agree with what he says about
> > "preponderance of evidence" in a civil case. That
> > standard is looser than he thinks. But there's a 
> > distinction between "de jure" (as a matter of law)
> > and "de facto" (as a matter of fact). It's 
> > entirely possible for a person to be a child
> > molester, to use your example, *de jure* but not
> > *de facto*. Or vice-versa.)
> >
>