[FairfieldLife] vivekin?
How would you guys define a vivekin, as used by Patañjali?
In Western psychiatry, someone for whom everything is misery
(duHkham eva sarvaM vivekinaH), would be diagnosed as
a severely depressed human bean??
From Bhojadeva's comment on that suutra (II 15):
yathA \-\-\-
akShipAtramUrNAtantusparshamAtreNaiva mahatIM pIDAmanubhavati
netaradaN^gaM tathA vivekI svalpaduHkhAnubandhenApyudvijate .
yathA
akShi-pAtram-UrNAtantu-sparsha-mAtreNa+eva mahatIM pIDAm anubhavati
na+itaradaN^gaM(?) tathA vivekI svalpa-duHkha+anubandhena+api+udvijate .
That seems to mean something like:
As the eyeball, but not any other part of a human body,
experiences great pain when touched by a mere string(?) of wool,
so even a small pain/misery (svalpa-duHkha) causes a vivekin to udvij
udvij A1. %{-vijate} (raely %{-vejate} in MBh.) P. %{-vijati}
(rarely) , to gush or spring upwards AV. iv , 15 , 3 ; to be agitated , grieved
or afflicted ; to shudder , tremble , start ; to fear , be afraid of (with gen.
abl. or instr.) MBh. BhP. Pan5cat. c. ; to shrink from , recede , leave off
S3atr. Bhat2t2. ; to frighten
As I've told before, that reminds me my TM-teacher telling us that
TM won't make you cool as cucumber; it might even make you
more sensitive than before...
[FairfieldLife] Hypercane!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercane
[FairfieldLife] Great progress in Nepal
Great progress in Nepal, Israel, Ukraine, South Korea and Georgia reported by Raja Kingsley Maharishi’s Global Family Chat May 18, 2013 This report by Raja Kingsley was so wide-ranging and contained news of so very many significant projects, presentations, meetings and breakthroughs that we can only offer a small selection to give a flavour from one country – Nepal. Dr Bevan Morris spoke with former Prime Minister Chand, at a celebration honouring Maharishi. Raja Dr John Hagelin addressed leading thinkers, academics and intelligentsia at the Nepal Academy for Science and Technology. Fours schools, including the Military Academy High School, have started Transcendental Meditation and are implementing Consciousness-Based Education, and there is a rising tide of interest from many more. Twenty-two schoolteachers travelled to Thailand to attend the Transcendental Meditation Teacher Training Course, after which they will return to implement Consciousness-Based Education in their schools. *** © 2013 Global Country of World Peace
[FairfieldLife] Transcendental Meditation Clip
Transcendental Meditation Clip ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pA_rHZZTgENR=1feature=endscreen _.__ Introduccion a la Meditacion Trascendental subt español
[FairfieldLife] Transcendental Meditation (TM) Helps Access Creativity
Transcendental Meditation (TM) Helps Access Creativity __. http://tmhome.com/news/transcendental-meditation-in-world-press/tm-helps-access-creativity-for-guitarist/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Thank God, Obama no match for Hitler Germany.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u no_reply@... wrote: He may have the ministry of propaganda (the liberal state run press), he may have the IRS, he may have the Justice department, but he'll never have the approval of the American people. CNN Poll released yesterday: Fifty-three percent of Americans said they approve of the job the president is doing.
[FairfieldLife] BatGap Panel Discussion – John Hagelin, Ph.D., Igor Kufayev, and Mark McCooey. Moderated by Rick Archer
New post on Buddha at the Gas Pump http://s.wordpress.com/i/emails/blavatar-default.png http://batgap.com/?author=1 http://batgap.com/sand-panel-discussion/ 175. Panel Discussion – John Hagelin, Ph.D., Igor Kufayev, and Mark McCooey. Moderated by Rick Archer by http://batgap.com/?author=1 Rick PANEL: The Three Simultaneously True Levels of Nondual Reality; Don't Mistake Understanding for Realization, Don't Mistake Realization for Liberation. John Hagelin, Ph.D., is a world-renowned quantum physicist, educator, public policy expert, and leading proponent of peace. Dr. Hagelin received his A.B. summa cum laude from Dartmouth College and his M.A. and Ph.D. from Harvard University, […] http://batgap.com/sand-panel-discussion/ Read more of this post http://batgap.com/?author=1 Rick | May 20, 2013 at 7:06 am | Categories: http://batgap.com/?taxonomy=categoryterm=guests Guests | URL: http://wp.me/p1q1S0-IB http://wp.me/p1q1S0-IB http://batgap.com/sand-panel-discussion/#respond Comment http://batgap.com/sand-panel-discussion/#comments See all comments Trouble clicking? Copy and paste this URL into your browser: http://batgap.com/sand-panel-discussion/ http://batgap.com/sand-panel-discussion/ http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=jetpack.wordpress.comblog=20980056post=2765subd=batgap.comref=email=1email_o=jetpack
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
Hey John I was thinking about jyotish, etc. this morning. Remembering times I read the Farmer's Almanac and how they suggested best days to plant according to the phase of the moon. And of course we know that the moon affects the tides. And we know that we're 70% water. So it makes sense to me that we're also affected by the moon's phases. For example, I think violence increases around the full moon. Anyway, what if we're affected in similar ways by the other planets, but not on the level of water. Just speculation, but it could be put to experimentation: maybe Mars has an effect on iron levels in the body, in Earth; maybe Saturn has an effect on calcium levels; maybe Venus has an effect on the levels of the pleasure hormones. What do you think? From: John jr_...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 10:24 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit Share, I don't have any credible source as to the natal chart of Red China. I would assume it would be the date and time when the People's Republic of China officially became the ruler of the country. I haven't researched this point yet. I'm sure it's available in the record books. JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: John, thank you for explaining this. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. Any jyotish chart for China? Wonder how it compares to US. Good compatibility? From: John jr_esq@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:44 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit  Share, Red China obviously wants to trade with the USA since we are a heavy consumer of goods that they manufacture. So, in that sense, they would prefer for the USA to stay afloat as a nation. They have also lent the US money to the tune of about one trillion dollars. So, they have a heavy investment in our country thinking that we can pay the interest for the loaned amount. If they didn't think we can pay for the loans, they could sell the bonds they're holding in the open market at any time. Most of the US national debt are actually owed to Americans themselves, such as the Social Security Fund, Medicare Funds, Private Investment Funds, State Funds, Union Funds and others. JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: What I've heard is that they think that if the US economy tanks, they tank. So it's in their self interest to help the US. You know, by not calling in all those markers of ours they hold. Is there anything to this idea? From: John jr_esq@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 5:56 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit  Share, From what I understand they are still a communist nation which forbids any religion other than the state itself. Will they continue to practice the self interest of the state, a communist and atheistic one, may not be too good for the rest of the world. JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: John, I don't think their agenda is much of a secret any longer. But it will be interesting to see how connected they feel to the rest of the world. Meaning will they practice wise self interest or unwise? From: John jr_esq@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 3:21 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 05/14/2013 10:25 AM, John wrote: With the city on the verge of bankruptcy, the participation of Chinese auto industry in the area may be a welcome development. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinese-creating-auto-niche-within-012304652.html They US is already a wholly owned subsidiary of China. How's your Mandarin? I hear Chinese are starting to buy up houses in the US. Capitalism stinks. It's puzzling how a supposedly communist country of Red China can do so well with capitalism here in the USA and elsewhere in the world. Do they have a secret agenda of defeating capitalism at its own game? It would be interesting to see what Red China will develop into in the future.
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
Thoughts and consciousness are not the same thing. Consciousness or awareness is fundamental, with thoughts secondary. So for thoughts, yes, you need a brain. But for consciousness, the brain structure isn't necessary. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: (snip) Yup, and it's perfectly natural to find something complex and assume that it must have been created by something more complex. This was Darwins genius as he showed it isn't the case where biology is concerned. But not where human consciousness is concerned. That's a belief. And a strange one. It's also just a belief that biology is responsible for human consciousness. ? Which words did you not understand? I guess it's just a belief that biology is responsible for my heartbeat. Non sequitur. LOL! The heartbeat is a biological thing. And I guess the brain isn't.. You seem to be losing track of the conversation. The brain is biological, like the heartbeat; consciousness may well not be. That's why the notion that consciousness is biological is just a belief, like the notion that it isnT. That's really anything funny you know. To give you a clue: Just try thinking that without a brain. Brains create consciousness, they also create the ability for brains to create and hold models that entirely contradict how brains themselves behave. The Greeks thought that brains were for cooling blood as it went round the body! You can't rely solely on people to work things out philosophically, they believe sorts of weird stuff. You mystical types start from the wrong place. I'm not doing mysticism here. There are very significant thinkers in philosophy and science who are not mystics or believers in God who make the points I'm making. So? So it's possible to think evolution doesn't explain consciousness without being a mystic, which means you can't blame my views on consciousness on my being a mystical type (if I even am). And where they start from is the fact that the biology of evolution doesn't account for human consciousness. You claim to understand evolution but have you considered how an alternative might fit in? An alternative to evolution? Why would that be necessary? Nothing wrong with evolution as it is. Other than that it can't account for human consciousness? Nothing wrong with that. It just means we have to look elsewhere for an understanding of consciousness. Why would we even expect evolution to provide the answers to all questions? That it doesn't isn't a flaw in evolution, it's a flaw in our expectations. PS I know what the hard problem is. I'm sorry to hear that. If you didn't know, there'd be some excuse for your inability to contribute anything thoughtful to this discussion (not necessarily agreement, but at least thoughtful disagreement). You want to win without having to do any work. Win what? You're more than welcome to withdraw from the conversation if it doesn't interest you. I'm withdrawing because you haven't offered anything new yet. We just go back to where we start. You won't get anywhere without evidence that brains aren't capable of creating consciousness and as every step in brain imaging and understanding gets us closer to thoughts, how to measure them and where they come from, some might say the mystics are in for a bit of a disappointment. Which shouldn't be the case as learning stuff is worth it for its own sake but a majority still believe in gods and afterlives so it's going to be tricky to convince them and it's probably the sort of thing that people will think they can take or leave and it won't matter, and they'd be right in every practical way.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
Doc, do you think ANY structure is necessary for consciousness? From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:23 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S Thoughts and consciousness are not the same thing. Consciousness or awareness is fundamental, with thoughts secondary. So for thoughts, yes, you need a brain. But for consciousness, the brain structure isn't necessary. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: (snip) Yup, and it's perfectly natural to find something complex and assume that it must have been created by something more complex. This was Darwins genius as he showed it isn't the case where biology is concerned. But not where human consciousness is concerned. That's a belief. And a strange one. It's also just a belief that biology is responsible for human consciousness. ? Which words did you not understand? I guess it's just a belief that biology is responsible for my heartbeat. Non sequitur. LOL! The heartbeat is a biological thing. And I guess the brain isn't.. You seem to be losing track of the conversation. The brain is biological, like the heartbeat; consciousness may well not be. That's why the notion that consciousness is biological is just a belief, like the notion that it isnT. That's really anything funny you know. To give you a clue: Just try thinking that without a brain. Brains create consciousness, they also create the ability for brains to create and hold models that entirely contradict how brains themselves behave. The Greeks thought that brains were for cooling blood as it went round the body! You can't rely solely on people to work things out philosophically, they believe sorts of weird stuff. You mystical types start from the wrong place. I'm not doing mysticism here. There are very significant thinkers in philosophy and science who are not mystics or believers in God who make the points I'm making. So? So it's possible to think evolution doesn't explain consciousness without being a mystic, which means you can't blame my views on consciousness on my being a mystical type (if I even am). And where they start from is the fact that the biology of evolution doesn't account for human consciousness. You claim to understand evolution but have you considered how an alternative might fit in? An alternative to evolution? Why would that be necessary? Nothing wrong with evolution as it is. Other than that it can't account for human consciousness? Nothing wrong with that. It just means we have to look elsewhere for an understanding of consciousness. Why would we even expect evolution to provide the answers to all questions? That it doesn't isn't a flaw in evolution, it's a flaw in our expectations. PS I know what the hard problem is. I'm sorry to hear that. If you didn't know, there'd be some excuse for your inability to contribute anything thoughtful to this discussion (not necessarily agreement, but at least thoughtful disagreement). You want to win without having to do any work. Win what? You're more than welcome to withdraw from the conversation if it doesn't interest you. I'm withdrawing because you haven't offered anything new yet. We just go back to where we start. You won't get anywhere without evidence that brains aren't capable of creating consciousness and as every step in brain imaging and understanding gets us closer to thoughts, how to measure them and where they come from, some might say the mystics are in for a bit of a disappointment. Which shouldn't be the case as learning stuff is worth it for its own sake but a majority still believe in gods and afterlives so it's going to be tricky to convince them and it's probably the sort of thing that people will think they can take or leave and it won't matter, and they'd be right in every practical way.
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
I was wondering the same thing. Probably not, but the paradox to finding the answer to that question, is that, in order for me to assess such a thing, in the moment, I must have a structure in mind, even if it is only a cloud, or an atom. So, I can answer it in practical terms, and the answer is no. But I will probably never know the answer, absolutely. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Doc, do you think ANY structure is necessary for consciousness? From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:23 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S  Thoughts and consciousness are not the same thing. Consciousness or awareness is fundamental, with thoughts secondary. So for thoughts, yes, you need a brain. But for consciousness, the brain structure isn't necessary. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: (snip) Yup, and it's perfectly natural to find something complex and assume that it must have been created by something more complex. This was Darwins genius as he showed it isn't the case where biology is concerned. But not where human consciousness is concerned. That's a belief. And a strange one. It's also just a belief that biology is responsible for human consciousness. ? Which words did you not understand? I guess it's just a belief that biology is responsible for my heartbeat. Non sequitur. LOL! The heartbeat is a biological thing. And I guess the brain isn't.. You seem to be losing track of the conversation. The brain is biological, like the heartbeat; consciousness may well not be. That's why the notion that consciousness is biological is just a belief, like the notion that it isnT. That's really anything funny you know. To give you a clue: Just try thinking that without a brain. Brains create consciousness, they also create the ability for brains to create and hold models that entirely contradict how brains themselves behave. The Greeks thought that brains were for cooling blood as it went round the body! You can't rely solely on people to work things out philosophically, they believe sorts of weird stuff. You mystical types start from the wrong place. I'm not doing mysticism here. There are very significant thinkers in philosophy and science who are not mystics or believers in God who make the points I'm making. So? So it's possible to think evolution doesn't explain consciousness without being a mystic, which means you can't blame my views on consciousness on my being a mystical type (if I even am). And where they start from is the fact that the biology of evolution doesn't account for human consciousness. You claim to understand evolution but have you considered how an alternative might fit in? An alternative to evolution? Why would that be necessary? Nothing wrong with evolution as it is. Other than that it can't account for human consciousness? Nothing wrong with that. It just means we have to look elsewhere for an understanding of consciousness. Why would we even expect evolution to provide the answers to all questions? That it doesn't isn't a flaw in evolution, it's a flaw in our expectations. PS I know what the hard problem is. I'm sorry to hear that. If you didn't know, there'd be some excuse for your inability to contribute anything thoughtful to this discussion (not necessarily agreement, but at least thoughtful disagreement). You want to win without having to do any work. Win what? You're more than welcome to withdraw from the conversation if it doesn't interest you. I'm withdrawing because you haven't offered anything new yet. We just go back to where we start. You won't get anywhere without evidence that brains aren't capable of creating consciousness and as every step in brain imaging and understanding gets us closer to thoughts, how to measure them and where they come from, some might say the mystics are in for a bit of a disappointment. Which shouldn't
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
Doc, I keep coming back to this. It seems to be the most basic truth, the only one we can know absolutely: awareness exists. From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:42 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S I was wondering the same thing. Probably not, but the paradox to finding the answer to that question, is that, in order for me to assess such a thing, in the moment, I must have a structure in mind, even if it is only a cloud, or an atom. So, I can answer it in practical terms, and the answer is no. But I will probably never know the answer, absolutely. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Doc, do you think ANY structure is necessary for consciousness? From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:23 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S  Thoughts and consciousness are not the same thing. Consciousness or awareness is fundamental, with thoughts secondary. So for thoughts, yes, you need a brain. But for consciousness, the brain structure isn't necessary. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: (snip) Yup, and it's perfectly natural to find something complex and assume that it must have been created by something more complex. This was Darwins genius as he showed it isn't the case where biology is concerned. But not where human consciousness is concerned. That's a belief. And a strange one. It's also just a belief that biology is responsible for human consciousness. ? Which words did you not understand? I guess it's just a belief that biology is responsible for my heartbeat. Non sequitur. LOL! The heartbeat is a biological thing. And I guess the brain isn't.. You seem to be losing track of the conversation. The brain is biological, like the heartbeat; consciousness may well not be. That's why the notion that consciousness is biological is just a belief, like the notion that it isnT. That's really anything funny you know. To give you a clue: Just try thinking that without a brain. Brains create consciousness, they also create the ability for brains to create and hold models that entirely contradict how brains themselves behave. The Greeks thought that brains were for cooling blood as it went round the body! You can't rely solely on people to work things out philosophically, they believe sorts of weird stuff. You mystical types start from the wrong place. I'm not doing mysticism here. There are very significant thinkers in philosophy and science who are not mystics or believers in God who make the points I'm making. So? So it's possible to think evolution doesn't explain consciousness without being a mystic, which means you can't blame my views on consciousness on my being a mystical type (if I even am). And where they start from is the fact that the biology of evolution doesn't account for human consciousness. You claim to understand evolution but have you considered how an alternative might fit in? An alternative to evolution? Why would that be necessary? Nothing wrong with evolution as it is. Other than that it can't account for human consciousness? Nothing wrong with that. It just means we have to look elsewhere for an understanding of consciousness. Why would we even expect evolution to provide the answers to all questions? That it doesn't isn't a flaw in evolution, it's a flaw in our expectations. PS I know what the hard problem is. I'm sorry to hear that. If you didn't know, there'd be some excuse for your inability to contribute anything thoughtful to this discussion (not necessarily agreement, but at least thoughtful disagreement). You want to win without having to do any work. Win what? You're more than welcome to withdraw from the conversation if it doesn't interest
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Doc, I keep coming back to this. It seems to be the most basic truth, the only one we can know absolutely: awareness exists. I think a general anaesthetic is a damn fine way of demonstrating the biological nature of consciousness. Just a little bit of ether and things shut down, taking awareness with it. From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:42 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S  I was wondering the same thing. Probably not, but the paradox to finding the answer to that question, is that, in order for me to assess such a thing, in the moment, I must have a structure in mind, even if it is only a cloud, or an atom. So, I can answer it in practical terms, and the answer is no. But I will probably never know the answer, absolutely. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, do you think ANY structure is necessary for consciousness?àFrom: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:23 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S àThoughts and consciousness are not the same thing. Consciousness or awareness is fundamental, with thoughts secondary. So for thoughts, yes, you need a brain. But for consciousness, the brain structure isn't necessary. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: (snip) Yup, and it's perfectly natural to find something complex and assume that it must have been created by something more complex. This was Darwins genius as he showed it isn't the case where biology is concerned. But not where human consciousness is concerned. That's a belief. And a strange one. It's also just a belief that biology is responsible for human consciousness. ? Which words did you not understand? I guess it's just a belief that biology is responsible for my heartbeat. Non sequitur. LOL! The heartbeat is a biological thing. And I guess the brain isn't.. You seem to be losing track of the conversation. The brain is biological, like the heartbeat; consciousness may well not be. That's why the notion that consciousness is biological is just a belief, like the notion that it isnT. That's really anything funny you know. To give you a clue: Just try thinking that without a brain. Brains create consciousness, they also create the ability for brains to create and hold models that entirely contradict how brains themselves behave. The Greeks thought that brains were for cooling blood as it went round the body! You can't rely solely on people to work things out philosophically, they believe sorts of weird stuff. You mystical types start from the wrong place. I'm not doing mysticism here. There are very significant thinkers in philosophy and science who are not mystics or believers in God who make the points I'm making. So? So it's possible to think evolution doesn't explain consciousness without being a mystic, which means you can't blame my views on consciousness on my being a mystical type (if I even am). And where they start from is the fact that the biology of evolution doesn't account for human consciousness. You claim to understand evolution but have you considered how an alternative might fit in? An alternative to evolution? Why would that be necessary? Nothing wrong with evolution as it is. Other than that it can't account for human consciousness? Nothing wrong with that. It just means we have to look elsewhere for an understanding of consciousness. Why would we even expect evolution to provide the answers to all questions? That it doesn't isn't a flaw in evolution, it's a flaw in our expectations. PS I know what
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
Salyavin, I've been rereading your exchanges with Judy and others and attempting to follow the ideas with mixed success. I even read Chalmers! So I'm really glad you commented here because I am struggling with the whole thing despite my TM background. Anyway, I'm not even sure what to ask. Ok, you say an injection of ether takes awareness with it. Does this mean that ether or its lack is the fundamental truth of existence? Again, I'm not even sure what to ask so any feedback along those lines is also appreciated. It sounds like you're saying that consciousness cannot exist without a functioning structure. Am I understanding that correctly? From: salyavin808 fintlewoodle...@mail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:56 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Doc, I keep coming back to this. It seems to be the most basic truth, the only one we can know absolutely: awareness exists. I think a general anaesthetic is a damn fine way of demonstrating the biological nature of consciousness. Just a little bit of ether and things shut down, taking awareness with it. From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:42 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S  I was wondering the same thing. Probably not, but the paradox to finding the answer to that question, is that, in order for me to assess such a thing, in the moment, I must have a structure in mind, even if it is only a cloud, or an atom. So, I can answer it in practical terms, and the answer is no. But I will probably never know the answer, absolutely. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, do you think ANY structure is necessary for consciousness? From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:23 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S  Thoughts and consciousness are not the same thing. Consciousness or awareness is fundamental, with thoughts secondary. So for thoughts, yes, you need a brain. But for consciousness, the brain structure isn't necessary. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: (snip) Yup, and it's perfectly natural to find something complex and assume that it must have been created by something more complex. This was Darwins genius as he showed it isn't the case where biology is concerned. But not where human consciousness is concerned. That's a belief. And a strange one. It's also just a belief that biology is responsible for human consciousness. ? Which words did you not understand? I guess it's just a belief that biology is responsible for my heartbeat. Non sequitur. LOL! The heartbeat is a biological thing. And I guess the brain isn't.. You seem to be losing track of the conversation. The brain is biological, like the heartbeat; consciousness may well not be. That's why the notion that consciousness is biological is just a belief, like the notion that it isnT. That's really anything funny you know. To give you a clue: Just try thinking that without a brain. Brains create consciousness, they also create the ability for brains to create and hold models that entirely contradict how brains themselves behave. The Greeks thought that brains were for cooling blood as it went round the body! You can't rely solely on people to work things out philosophically, they believe sorts of weird stuff. You mystical types start from the wrong place. I'm not doing mysticism here. There are very significant thinkers in philosophy and science who are not mystics or believers in God who make the points I'm making. So?
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: We see other people, animals, and by their behaviour we deem them to be conscious. Yet if the brain of these beings is damaged in certain ways, that conscious behaviour departs. Injection of certain drugs, such as Propofol (the one that killed the singer Michael Jackson) causes consciousness to slip away, even when death does not occur. On this basis a scientist will conclude that the physical world, and the brain in particular, by virtue of its organisation, causes consciousness. Otherwise consciousness would not depart if the brain were destroyed. I would hope that a scientist would NOT on this basis conclude that the brain causes consciousness. Or, as Salyavin808 would have it, creates consciousness (using a similar form of reasoning). You both seem to be saying that because damage to X results in damage to Y, and the destruction of X results in the destruction of Y, *therefore* X creates Y or X causes Y. This appears to me to be an obviously flawed line of reasoning (Judy has made this point previously). For example, take a statue made from marble. If you chip the marble, you damage the statue. If you destroy the marble you destroy the statue. On this basis is a scientist to conclude that the marble causes or creates the statue? And it gets worse. Even Supposing that we took your reasoning to be valid after all and accepted as a consequence that the brain causes consciousness. That does not mean (in itself) that consciousness is nothing but the brain and can be reduced to that particular material object. For example, when I flick a switch, that causes my light to come on. But that doesn't mean the light is nothing but the light switch. Perhaps it's the word cause that is creating difficulties here. What you and Salyavin808 are saying might make more sense within an Aristotelian understanding: The brain is the material cause of the mind. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_causes) But what that gains in plausibility it sacrifices in significance I would have thought. And in any case, scientistic types would hardly wish to resurrect a primitive ancient like Aristotle to bolster their scientific reductionism, would they? To add to the gaity, perhape we mysterians could lob a few of our own ordnance into the fray. If you belive that mind is reducible to brain, what would you predict would be the result of the amputation of a full half of a person's brain? Well, such hemispherectomies do happen (though mostly with children). And the results? Studies have found no significant long-term effects on memory, personality, or humor after the procedure, and minimal changes in cognitive function overall. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemispherectomy And what are we to make of a case such as the 44 year-old French civil servant with a huge pocket of fluid where most of his brain ought to be - as reported in the Lancet and Nature: http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/07/20/us-brain-tiny- idUSN1930510020070720 http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070716/full/news070716-15.html Or again, what about when the direction of causality is reversed? That is to say, if the influence of the brain on the mind is put forward as evidence for reductionism, what are we to conclude when the tables are reversed and the mind causes the death of the brain? As in pointing the bone: The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual loading of the kundela creates a spear of thought which pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is certain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdaitcha Finally, if, following Descartes (and now David Chalmers in the video Judy posted) we conclude that the one indubitable fact (for me) is my being me, my existence. How, as reductive materialists, can we account for the fact that my existence has remained constant throughout my life, whereas every part of my body and brain has changed? There is very little sense in which the brain I have now is the same as the one I had at age five. But there is plenty of sense in saying that I am the same individual now as my self when I was five. In fact the entire emotional, social, intellectual, ethical, judicial and religious fabric of our lives is based on this simple idea of individuals - their concerns, their histories, their rights, their duties and so forth. Brains don't have such attributes. Ergo, individuals are not brains.
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Salyavin, I've been rereading your exchanges with Judy and others and attempting to follow the ideas with mixed success. I even read Chalmers! So I'm really glad you commented here because I am struggling with the whole thing despite my TM background. Anyway, I'm not even sure what to ask. Ok, you say an injection of ether takes awareness with it. Does this mean that ether or its lack is the fundamental truth of existence? Again, I'm not even sure what to ask so any feedback along those lines is also appreciated.   It sounds like you're saying that consciousness cannot exist without a functioning structure. Am I understanding that correctly? Yep, a functioning brain is the seat of consciousness but groups like the TMO will attempt to weaken that idea for their own agenda. Anaesthetic is marvellous, it knocks out the higher brain and consciousness but too much will take out the lower level stuff you need to remain alive. Consciouness is generally thought of as an emergent phenomena meaning it needs a certain amount of brain cells to be there at all, this means it is irreducible to the level of neurons which is, I guess, why people have such a hard time with it. No one has ever demonstrated that it can live independently of us or that it is fundamental to us. These are all beliefs about it that aren't scientific as they weren't designed to fill a gap in knowledge and have proved untestable. I see them as the typically human we don't understand, blame it on god reaction that stood mankind in good stead until someone thought of a way of testing ideas. Quantum consciousness is an interesting idea but rather spoilt by the fact that there isn't anything in the brain small enough to allow quantum information to stack up (by some margin) and the brain is too hot. Strange quantum effects (such as the ones they'll need for the theory to work) only happen when at a very low temperature, at other times they leap around in a most incoherent fashion. For some reason these embarrassing facts don't stop people holding conferences about it. And the quantum solution doesn't answer the question of the hard problem anyway, it just pushes it to another level. In the case of the TM mythos, it pushes it to the level of some infinite godhead which seems an unnecessary step to me and certainly not born out by the evidence of experience which always seem explainable in a more mundane way and people mostly thinking along the lines of: If it feels like infinity then it must be stretching outside of my head. I've been there and I'm not convinced. Because I don't believe the mystic mythos it just seems staggeringly obvious to me that it's all in the brain and totally dependent on it. Consciousness evolved just like everything else, everything else is your own problem! Which isn't to say I'm not struck dumb by how amazing it all is, I'm the original psychic adventurer - of my generation anyway. Of course, you may think I'm talking complete blinkered crap and good luck to you! I will convert for evidence. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:56 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, I keep coming back to this.àIt seems to be the most basic truth, the only one we can know absolutely:àawareness exists.àI think a general anaesthetic is a damn fine way of demonstrating the biological nature of consciousness. Just a little bit of ether and things shut down, taking awareness with it. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:42 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S àI was wondering the same thing. Probably not, but the paradox to finding the answer to that question, is that, in order for me to assess such a thing, in the moment, I must have a structure in mind, even if it is only a cloud, or an atom. So, I can answer it in practical terms, and the answer is no. But I will probably never know the answer, absolutely. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, do you think ANY structure is necessary for consciousness?ÃâàFrom: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:23 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S ÃâàThoughts and consciousness are not the
[FairfieldLife] David Gersten, M.D.: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 05/19/2013
blog updates from Buddha at the Gas Pump http://gallery.mailchimp.com/e709a491029b04e745834d34d/images/star.gif published 05/19/2013 174. David Gersten, M.D. http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=31667fdd8ce=16e07f16fe May 18, 2013 07:48 am | Rick Dr. Gersten practices integrative psychiatry and nutritional medicine out of his office in Encinitas, California. In this interview we discuss his book Are You Getting Enlightened Or Losing Your Mind? A Psychiatrist’s Guide for Mastering Paranormal and Spiritual Experience. Dr. … Continue reading http://batgap.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=44acfb15b9e=16e07f16fe → The post 174. David Gersten, M.D. http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=4da53d514ae=16e07f16fe appeared first on Buddha at the Gas Pump http://batgap.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=09c7ca1750e=16e07f16fe . http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/images/mime-type/mp3.png 174_david_gersten.mp3 http://batgap.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=678b6033cee=16e07f16fe 58 MB comments http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=07b779ff9fe=16e07f16fe | read more http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=e2bccc9e11e=16e07f16fe http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=91923f07f7e=16e07f16fe http://batgap.us2.list-manage2.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=dfca994088e=16e07f16fe http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=5f22055358e=16e07f16fe http://gallery.mailchimp.com/e709a491029b04e745834d34d/images/frond.gif Elsewhere * http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=2a915ec756e=16e07f16fe Visit My Blog * http://us2.forward-to-friend.com/forward?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=0d1b0d60fbe=16e07f16fe Share This with a friend * http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=ebac921fc9e=16e07f16fe Follow me on Twitter * http://batgap.us2.list-manage2.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=3927583585e=16e07f16fe RSS feed http://gallery.mailchimp.com/e709a491029b04e745834d34d/images/shim.gif view email in a browser http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=0d1b0d60fbe=16e07f16fe | Regular announcement of new interviews posted at http://batgap.com. Add us to your address book http://batgap.us2.list-manage1.com/vcard?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=b0e5d0d53a Copyright (C) 2013 Buddha at the Gas Pump All rights reserved. http://www.mailchimp.com/monkey-rewards/?utm_source=freemium_newsletterutm_medium=emailutm_campaign=monkey_rewardsaid=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5afl=1 http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/open.php?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=0d1b0d60fbe=16e07f16fe
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: We see other people, animals, and by their behaviour we deem them to be conscious. Yet if the brain of these beings is damaged in certain ways, that conscious behaviour departs. Injection of certain drugs, such as Propofol (the one that killed the singer Michael Jackson) causes consciousness to slip away, even when death does not occur. On this basis a scientist will conclude that the physical world, and the brain in particular, by virtue of its organisation, causes consciousness. Otherwise consciousness would not depart if the brain were destroyed. I would hope that a scientist would NOT on this basis conclude that the brain causes consciousness. Or, as Salyavin808 would have it, creates consciousness (using a similar form of reasoning). Hardly *just* that basis. You both seem to be saying that because damage to X results in damage to Y, and the destruction of X results in the destruction of Y, *therefore* X creates Y or X causes Y. This appears to me to be an obviously flawed line of reasoning (Judy has made this point previously). For example, take a statue made from marble. If you chip the marble, you damage the statue. If you destroy the marble you destroy the statue. On this basis is a scientist to conclude that the marble causes or creates the statue? That's an astoundingly weak argument. And it gets worse. Even Supposing that we took your reasoning to be valid after all and accepted as a consequence that the brain causes consciousness. That does not mean (in itself) that consciousness is nothing but the brain and can be reduced to that particular material object. For example, when I flick a switch, that causes my light to come on. But that doesn't mean the light is nothing but the light switch. Whoever said it was? Perhaps it's the word cause that is creating difficulties here. What you and Salyavin808 are saying might make more sense within an Aristotelian understanding: The brain is the material cause of the mind. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_causes) But what that gains in plausibility it sacrifices in significance I would have thought. And in any case, scientistic types would hardly wish to resurrect a primitive ancient like Aristotle to bolster their scientific reductionism, would they? To add to the gaity, perhape we mysterians could lob a few of our own ordnance into the fray. If you belive that mind is reducible to brain, what would you predict would be the result of the amputation of a full half of a person's brain? Well, such hemispherectomies do happen (though mostly with children). And the results? Studies have found no significant long-term effects on memory, personality, or humor after the procedure, and minimal changes in cognitive function overall. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemispherectomy Whoever said the brain was wired so that everything was on one side? And there is more to this than meets the eye. If I cut your corpus calosum your right hand stops knowing what the left hand is doing. Cover one eye and you'll know what you are looking at even though you can't see it. These and many other experiments have been done to show how one side of the brain controls the other half of the body and the sufferer can go through life without noticing, mostly. It doesn't contradict anything I've said about consciousness anyway. Placing of brain structures is well understood, it can be predicted what functions people will lose or have difficulty with after a damage to the brain. And what are we to make of a case such as the 44 year-old French civil servant with a huge pocket of fluid where most of his brain ought to be - as reported in the Lancet and Nature: Surprising how much of the brain you don't need. Or how much you can lose. You seem to be posting things as though you think it's evidence that mind and brain are seperate and you can lose one without changing the other. I can assume then that you've never known anyone with serious brain damage? it's amazing how they come back to being themselves, even after losing large bits of the most recently evolved areas known to be associated with our higher functions, but never totally. Damage changes how people are and it's all well documented if you haven't personally had the misfortune of knowing someone who's been in a coma and seen the horror of their destroyed mind as they come out. And then been astounded as bits of them start coming back online and after a few years they can be almost themselves. But, as I say, not quite. It's sad how people are affected. Lose from the back of the brain and you lose motor functions. Lose from the front and you lose what makes you what we all think we are. It generally takes a few years for the
[FairfieldLife] Life in Mumbai (from VICE Ep 5)
Here is a clip from HBO's VICE episode 5 about workers in Mumbai. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc9vOnAPrr4 What the full episode shows is the trophy skyscraper mansions that billionaires there are building. Talk about income disparity. BTW, I've been to Mumbai and can confirm it is the most polluted place on earth and a good place to send climate change deniers for a couple weeks.
[FairfieldLife] JLo digs Windoze Phoney?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BofL1AaiTjo
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: (snip) Yep, a functioning brain is the seat of consciousness but groups like the TMO will attempt to weaken that idea for their own agenda. Salyavin, why don't you see if you can make your case without leaving a trail of slain straw men? Just to reiterate: Chalmers and Nagel and a number of other non-TM, nonmystical, nonreligious philosophers and scientists of excellent repute take the view that consciousness is not adequately explained by biology (and without invoking quantum mechanics or the paranormal, either). (snip) Because I don't believe the mystic mythos it just seems staggeringly obvious to me that it's all in the brain and totally dependent on it. What if you didn't have the mystic mythos to beat up on, would it be any less staggeringly obvious to you? Could you then take a good look at the hard problem and apply reductive principles to make the most basic fact of human experience--what it is like to be oneself--go away?
Re: [FairfieldLife] LifeMumbai (from VICE Ep 5)NOT most polluted,Calcutta,Bejing
Also Mexico City on occasion are all worse then Mumbia In a message dated 5/20/2013 12:52:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, noozg...@sbcglobal.net writes: Here is a clip from HBO's VICE episode 5 about workers in Mumbai. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc9vOnAPrr4 What the full episode shows is the trophy skyscraper mansions that billionaires there are building. Talk about income disparity. BTW, I've been to Mumbai and can confirm it is the most polluted place on earth and a good place to send climate change deniers for a couple weeks. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: We see other people, animals, and by their behaviour we deem them to be conscious. Yet if the brain of these beings is damaged in certain ways, that conscious behaviour departs. Injection of certain drugs, such as Propofol (the one that killed the singer Michael Jackson) causes consciousness to slip away, even when death does not occur. On this basis a scientist will conclude that the physical world, and the brain in particular, by virtue of its organisation, causes consciousness. Otherwise consciousness would not depart if the brain were destroyed. I would hope that a scientist would NOT on this basis conclude that the brain causes consciousness. Or, as Salyavin808 would have it, creates consciousness (using a similar form of reasoning). Hardly *just* that basis. You both seem to be saying that because damage to X results in damage to Y, and the destruction of X results in the destruction of Y, *therefore* X creates Y or X causes Y. This appears to me to be an obviously flawed line of reasoning (Judy has made this point previously). For example, take a statue made from marble. If you chip the marble, you damage the statue. If you destroy the marble you destroy the statue. On this basis is a scientist to conclude that the marble causes or creates the statue? That's an astoundingly weak argument. Quite so. As evinced by e.g. this: As it's brains that cause consciousness (get someone to hit you on the head with a heavy object if you don't believe me) salyavin808 Apart from statements such as this, I don't feel I have seen any OTHER reasoning hereabouts to the effect that brains cause consciousness. Plenty of assertions though. As an aside I would say that in these discussions we may be muddling up some quite separate ideas too: 1. Awareness as consciousness. The kind that we lose when hit on the head. 2. Consciousness as in deep sleep is a form of consciousness 3. Consciousness as a privileged perspective (as in what it is like to be Dexter, my cat). 4. Consciousness as being-in-the-world as in Heidegger's dasein a form of being that is aware of and must confront such issues as personhood, mortality and the dilemma or paradox of living in relationship with other humans while being ultimately alone with oneself (I'm not well up on Heidegger!). This may be the same, or similar, to (3) above. But for me, it is the idea of not just Nagel's being a bat, but also being-a-bat-through- time. Ie. Being an Individual (or a soul if you prefer).
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: It doesn't contradict anything I've said about consciousness anyway. Placing of brain structures is well understood, it can be predicted what functions people will lose or have difficulty with after a damage to the brain. I'm not convinced by your bravado here. On the contrary, it seems to me that our expectations have been confounded, not confirmed. I am not a brain scientist (and I take it neither are you). But here we have Scientific American: Neurosurgeons have performed the operation on children as young as three months old. Astonishingly, memory and personality develop normally. Why do they say astonishingly? Or: Remarkably, few other impacts are seen. If the left side of the brain is taken out, most people have problems with their speech, but it used to be thought that if you took that side out after age two, you'd never talk again, and we've proven that untrue, Freeman says. The younger a person is when they undergo hemispherectomy, the less disability you have in talking. Where on the right side of the brain speech is transferred to and what it displaces is something nobody has really worked out. Why do they say Remarkably?
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual loading of the kundela creates a spear of thought which pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is certain. Anxiety is a powerful thing. So it seems. The cause of the anxiety was of course a purely mental thing (or a thing in the realm of meaning), and NOT a physical thing. And the anxiety was the effect, not the cause. Why do you think this proves something pertinent to the argument here? It's like you've just googled odd stuff about the brain and drawn some whoppingly unnecessary argument out of it. It's about the world of the mental and the world of meaning (the latter I think I'd prefer), and about how those worlds can, sometimes, extinguish the world of the merely physical. Because they are equally (or maybe more) real.
Re: [FairfieldLife] LifeMumbai (from VICE Ep 5)NOT most polluted,Calcutta,Bejing
Have you ever been to Mumbai? I have. Nothing more wonderful than the smell of open sewers in the evening. When I was there I could see that the scooter taxis needed catalytic converters. Of course the owners couldn't afford them and if they were installed they would probably get stolen for the metals. They even steal them off cars around here. On 05/20/2013 10:03 AM, wle...@aol.com wrote: Also Mexico City on occasion are all worse then Mumbia In a message dated 5/20/2013 12:52:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, noozg...@sbcglobal.net writes: Here is a clip from HBO's VICE episode 5 about workers in Mumbai. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc9vOnAPrr4 What the full episode shows is the trophy skyscraper mansions that billionaires there are building. Talk about income disparity. BTW, I've been to Mumbai and can confirm it is the most polluted place on earth and a good place to send climate change deniers for a couple weeks. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
Share, Jyotish is an ancient science and covers all of the concerns that you've been thinking. Yes, you're correct in assuming that the full Moon days have special qualities, but not necessarily violent. Specifically, during the Full Moon in the summer, the Vedic culture, including the TMO, celebrates this day in honor of Guru Deva. There are also special qualities of the Moon as it transits from the natal Moon sign. The same principle applies to all of the planets as they transit from the natal Moon nakshatra and the lagna or ascendant. For accurate predictions, all of these information would have to be synthesized by the jyotishi. JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Hey John I was thinking about jyotish, etc. this morning. Remembering times I read the Farmer's Almanac and how they suggested best days to plant according to the phase of the moon. And of course we know that the moon affects the tides. And we know that we're 70% water. So it makes sense to me that we're also affected by the moon's phases. For example, I think violence increases around the full moon. Anyway, what if we're affected in similar ways by the other planets, but not on the level of water. Just speculation, but it could be put to experimentation: maybe Mars has an effect on iron levels in the body, in Earth; maybe Saturn has an effect on calcium levels; maybe Venus has an effect on the levels of the pleasure hormones. What do you think? From: John jr_esq@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 10:24 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit  Share, I don't have any credible source as to the natal chart of Red China. I would assume it would be the date and time when the People's Republic of China officially became the ruler of the country. I haven't researched this point yet. I'm sure it's available in the record books. JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: John, thank you for explaining this.àIt'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.àAny jyotish chart for China?àWonder how it compares to US.àGood compatibility? From: John jr_esq@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:44 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit àShare, Red China obviously wants to trade with the USA since we are a heavy consumer of goods that they manufacture. So, in that sense, they would prefer for the USA to stay afloat as a nation. They have also lent the US money to the tune of about one trillion dollars. So, they have a heavy investment in our country thinking that we can pay the interest for the loaned amount. If they didn't think we can pay for the loans, they could sell the bonds they're holding in the open market at any time. Most of the US national debt are actually owed to Americans themselves, such as the Social Security Fund, Medicare Funds, Private Investment Funds, State Funds, Union Funds and others. JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: What I've heard is that they think that if the US economy tanks, they tank.ÃâàSo it's in their self interest to help the US.ÃâàYou know, by not calling in all those markers of ours they hold.ÃâàIs there anything to this idea? From: John jr_esq@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 5:56 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit ÃâàShare, From what I understand they are still a communist nation which forbids any religion other than the state itself. Will they continue to practice the self interest of the state, a communist and atheistic one, may not be too good for the rest of the world. JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: John, I don't think their agenda is much of a secret any longer.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàBut it will be interesting to see how connected they feel to the rest of the world.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàMeaning will they practice wise self interest or unwise? From: John jr_esq@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 3:21 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 05/14/2013 10:25 AM, John wrote: With the city on the verge of bankruptcy, the participation of Chinese auto industry in the area may be a
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: It doesn't contradict anything I've said about consciousness anyway. Placing of brain structures is well understood, it can be predicted what functions people will lose or have difficulty with after a damage to the brain. I'm not convinced by your bravado here. On the contrary, it seems to me that our expectations have been confounded, not confirmed. Yours perhaps, I didn't have expectations. I am not a brain scientist (and I take it neither are you). But here we have Scientific American: Neurosurgeons have performed the operation on children as young as three months old. Astonishingly, memory and personality develop normally. Why do they say astonishingly? Ask them. I would expect that both halves of the brain share memory building and personality. And maybe as they are so young the personality traits that are usually covered by one side get shifted to the other before they've started to be used thus making them as developmentally strong they would have been without the operation. What happens in accident victims; if one bit of the brain is lost a period of crazy unpredictability occurs until the functions are shared out with other parts. But it doesn't do the job fully, in the case of the person I know it left them more prone to anger, mood swings and impulsiveness. And that was predicted by the surgeon who operated, in fact it's all anyone says when they see the x-rays. Or: Remarkably, few other impacts are seen. If the left side of the brain is taken out, most people have problems with their speech, but it used to be thought that if you took that side out after age two, you'd never talk again, and we've proven that untrue, Freeman says. The younger a person is when they undergo hemispherectomy, the less disability you have in talking. Where on the right side of the brain speech is transferred to and what it displaces is something nobody has really worked out. Why do they say Remarkably? Why do you think this is so important to your argument? I've told you, cutting the brain in half crossways has a radically different effect than lengthways. It's just the way it's wired to begin with, opposite hemispheres control the opposite side of the body with functions copied. This isn't a mystery to anyone. And it doesn't have anything to do with consciousness. And how come I've known there are two speech centres in the brain for years. Where did I get that info from? Ah yes, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes. Now *there's* a book students of consciousness should read. Not that it's the whole story (or even true perhaps) but there are enough factoids about brain wiring and function to keep you busy for a month.
[FairfieldLife] Important change in the Invincible America Assembly
--- On Mon, 5/20/13, Dr. Bevan Morris developm...@mum.edu mailto:developm...@mum.edu wrote: From: Dr. Bevan Morris developm...@mum.edu mailto:developm...@mum.edu Subject: Important change in the Invincible America Assembly Date: Monday, May 20, 2013, 1:01 PM Dear Friend of Maharishi University of Management, The Settle Foundation is facing financial challenges due to difficulties that have arisen in the past five months in the business that underlies the foundation's giving. Word of this has reached the Invincible America Assembly grant recipients, so Raja John Hagelin asked me to explain the situation to everyone on the Assembly, which I did on Thursday. I explained that the Settle grants would be coming to an end over the next months. I said everyone should quickly make plans to be self-sufficient through cashing in in the afternoon (i.e., working at a job in the afternoon) as Maharishi described it, or any other approach, including, at least for some, personal funds. I also said Raja John Hagelin, Raja Wynne and Maureen, Raja Bob Lopinto, Raja Harris and myself are trying to come up with a plan for new sources of income that will allow the program to continue as much as possible, and we are talking to our Indian leaders about this. Of course, supporting the 600 Vedic Pandits we have here now is extremely important, and if we are successful in raising new funds, bringing the 400 Maharishi Vedic Pandits who are in India waiting to come, to create a much higher level of national coherence. I emphasized that in the future the grant, when available, would probably be for a smaller number of Yogic Flyers, especially the most active flyers, who do really long flying and make a long-term commitment to the Invincible America Assembly program. Maharishi said this from the beginning and Dr. Doug and Dr. Linda Birx have been working on this throughout. This will reduce the numbers, but we will have a more powerful group. I pointed out the present situation means that we have been depending on the generosity of Howard and Alice too much. We need to take responsibility afresh to engage all the Sidhas of America in national invincibility. The response was extremely beautiful. Speaker after speaker sent their infinite love and gratitude to the Settles, saying they understand how they must be feeling, and want them only to feel the depth of their gratitude and love. The common feeling was that the Invincible America Assembly will continue even without the grant. The Assembly Maharishi created even before there was a grant, and it will continue even now that the grant is not possible for some time. Some also said they would apply to become Maharishi University of Management students so they could use financial aid to continue. They suggested we fly at the same time as the 8,000 Yogic Flyers in Oaxaca, Mexico, that we adjust lift-off for flying time to accommodate people with jobs in Fairfield, and other positive ideas. They reminded us that Maharishi said, I am—India and America for a bright future for the world and we have to fulfill Maharishi's direction, all of us together. It was a very moving and even blissful occasion. We will continue in the Invincible America Assembly experience session with more thinking from everyone. A new campaign is also starting for all Sidhas in Fairfield, Maharishi Vedic City, and nationally to participate in the Invincible America Assembly to create a better fortune for the nation. We are all so grateful to Howard and Alice for giving nearly $100 million over the past seven years—it is really just phenomenal and historic—and we know that they will continue to do everything to support national invincibility. With Best Wishes, Jai Guru Dev Bevan
[FairfieldLife] Important change in the Invincible America Assembly
Begin forwarded message: From: Dr. Bevan Morris developm...@mum.edu Date: May 20, 2013 12:56:41 PM CDT Dear Friend of Maharishi University of Management, The Settle Foundation is facing financial challenges due to difficulties that have arisen in the past five months in the business that underlies the foundation's giving. Word of this has reached the Invincible America Assembly grant recipients, so Raja John Hagelin asked me to explain the situation to everyone on the Assembly, which I did on Thursday. I explained that the Settle grants would be coming to an end over the next months. I said everyone should quickly make plans to be self-sufficient through cashing in in the afternoon (i.e., working at a job in the afternoon) as Maharishi described it, or any other approach, including, at least for some, personal funds. I also said Raja John Hagelin, Raja Wynne and Maureen, Raja Bob Lopinto, Raja Harris and myself are trying to come up with a plan for new sources of income that will allow the program to continue as much as possible, and we are talking to our Indian leaders about this. Of course, supporting the 600 Vedic Pandits we have here now is extremely important, and if we are successful in raising new funds, bringing the 400 Maharishi Vedic Pandits who are in India waiting to come, to create a much higher level of national coherence. I emphasized that in the future the grant, when available, would probably be for a smaller number of Yogic Flyers, especially the most active flyers, who do really long flying and make a long-term commitment to the Invincible America Assembly program. Maharishi said this from the beginning and Dr. Doug and Dr. Linda Birx have been working on this throughout. This will reduce the numbers, but we will have a more powerful group. I pointed out the present situation means that we have been depending on the generosity of Howard and Alice too much. We need to take responsibility afresh to engage all the Sidhas of America in national invincibility. The response was extremely beautiful. Speaker after speaker sent their infinite love and gratitude to the Settles, saying they understand how they must be feeling, and want them only to feel the depth of their gratitude and love. The common feeling was that the Invincible America Assembly will continue even without the grant. The Assembly Maharishi created even before there was a grant, and it will continue even now that the grant is not possible for some time. Some also said they would apply to become Maharishi University of Management students so they could use financial aid to continue. They suggested we fly at the same time as the 8,000 Yogic Flyers in Oaxaca, Mexico, that we adjust lift-off for flying time to accommodate people with jobs in Fairfield, and other positive ideas. They reminded us that Maharishi said, I am—India and America for a bright future for the world and we have to fulfill Maharishi's direction, all of us together. It was a very moving and even blissful occasion. We will continue in the Invincible America Assembly experience session with more thinking from everyone. A new campaign is also starting for all Sidhas in Fairfield, Maharishi Vedic City, and nationally to participate in the Invincible America Assembly to create a better fortune for the nation. We are all so grateful to Howard and Alice for giving nearly $100 million over the past seven years—it is really just phenomenal and historic—and we know that they will continue to do everything to support national invincibility. With Best Wishes, Jai Guru Dev Bevan
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual loading of the kundela creates a spear of thought which pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is certain. Anxiety is a powerful thing. So it seems. The cause of the anxiety was of course a purely mental thing (or a thing in the realm of meaning), and NOT a physical thing. And the anxiety was the effect, not the cause. When I think anxiety I think adrenalin which is physical. The idea of what is frightening is held as a memory or instinct, which is an obvious evolutionary advantage. what to be scared of can also be learned, did you know it only takes two events of any sort before the brain makes a neural link to alert the rest of the system how to behave next time the stimulus is encountered. For instance, if you get nearly run over once the adrenalin dies away and the typical brain will put it down to experience. Twice and you will start to get anxious going near a road. Simple as that, and the funny thing about adrenalin is that when you are pumped up it changes the way you perceive the world, it heightens sound and movement, it changes the way blood flows in the brain so you can't think logically but can only think of running away or fighting. To enable this it drags sugars out of the liver and into the blood and draws blood from the stomach into the muscles. Best of all, any experience you have when in an aroused state gets tagged by the brain as being threatening and will cause a similar reaction if you keep having the same stimulus. This is how neuroses develop, like agoraphobia or social shyness. Anxiety can and does pollute the whole brain, mind system. Your voodoo cult member is primed from childhood to die on command. The point I'm making is, I don't see it as mind and matter, it's all the same thing to me, you can't seperate them, they don't work without each other. This is what I'm saying about consciousness, it's a function. Once you have enough brain cells you have consciousness. Emergent phenomena and it can no more be understood in terms of individual brain cells than wetness can be understood in terms of individual water molecules. Why do you think this proves something pertinent to the argument here? It's like you've just googled odd stuff about the brain and drawn some whoppingly unnecessary argument out of it. It's about the world of the mental and the world of meaning (the latter I think I'd prefer), and about how those worlds can, sometimes, extinguish the world of the merely physical. Because they are equally (or maybe more) real.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: Ann, Please, read my response to Share on this same thread. I'm surprised there's such interest in the chart of Red China. JR I have to be honest with you JR, I was kind of making a joke about it all (but you knew that). I mean, of all the countries, China is one of the most ancient and determining its actual moment of inception would be pretty hard to figure out. I do admire you, however, for two reasons: you seem to be a particularly nice fellow and your knowledge of Jyotish is extensive. However, I do find it comical (and it may well be because I am ignorant of the subject) but determining the astrological chart of anything other than a human being seems fairly absurd. However, I am prepared to be enlightened on why this is not necessarily so if this is not the case. Ann, The birth of a nation, a political system, an organization, and even a thought or idea is similar to the birth of an individual. In jyotish, the birth time is the point in time when the lagna occurs, meaning that this is the time the planets grasp the person or entity with its karmic quality. This can be interpreted by casting the horoscope of that specific time which shows the placement of the planets in the zodiac. IMO, in using the concepts in modern day quantum physics, the ascendant determines the special combination of wave functions from the various planets which interacts with the wave function of the person or entity in question. We can also say the ascendant is the superposition of all the wave functions of the planets as they relate to the individual's unique wave function or signature. This superposition of waves can be understood in human terms by using the ancient methods outlined in jyotish. In short, everything in the universe is related to each other. I hope this helps. JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: John, thank you for explaining this. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. Any jyotish chart for China? When was China born?  Wonder how it compares to US. Good compatibility? From: John jr_esq@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:44 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit  Share, Red China obviously wants to trade with the USA since we are a heavy consumer of goods that they manufacture. So, in that sense, they would prefer for the USA to stay afloat as a nation. They have also lent the US money to the tune of about one trillion dollars. So, they have a heavy investment in our country thinking that we can pay the interest for the loaned amount. If they didn't think we can pay for the loans, they could sell the bonds they're holding in the open market at any time. Most of the US national debt are actually owed to Americans themselves, such as the Social Security Fund, Medicare Funds, Private Investment Funds, State Funds, Union Funds and others. JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: What I've heard is that they think that if the US economy tanks, they tank.àSo it's in their self interest to help the US.àYou know, by not calling in all those markers of ours they hold.àIs there anything to this idea? From: John jr_esq@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 5:56 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit àShare, From what I understand they are still a communist nation which forbids any religion other than the state itself. Will they continue to practice the self interest of the state, a communist and atheistic one, may not be too good for the rest of the world. JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: John, I don't think their agenda is much of a secret any longer.ÃâàBut it will be interesting to see how connected they feel to the rest of the world.ÃâàMeaning will they practice wise self interest or unwise? From: John jr_esq@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 3:21 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit Ãâà--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
On 05/20/2013 11:33 AM, John wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: Ann, Please, read my response to Share on this same thread. I'm surprised there's such interest in the chart of Red China. JR I have to be honest with you JR, I was kind of making a joke about it all (but you knew that). I mean, of all the countries, China is one of the most ancient and determining its actual moment of inception would be pretty hard to figure out. I do admire you, however, for two reasons: you seem to be a particularly nice fellow and your knowledge of Jyotish is extensive. However, I do find it comical (and it may well be because I am ignorant of the subject) but determining the astrological chart of anything other than a human being seems fairly absurd. However, I am prepared to be enlightened on why this is not necessarily so if this is not the case. Ann, The birth of a nation, a political system, an organization, and even a thought or idea is similar to the birth of an individual. In jyotish, the birth time is the point in time when the lagna occurs, meaning that this is the time the planets grasp the person or entity with its karmic quality. This can be interpreted by casting the horoscope of that specific time which shows the placement of the planets in the zodiac. IMO, in using the concepts in modern day quantum physics, the ascendant determines the special combination of wave functions from the various planets which interacts with the wave function of the person or entity in question. We can also say the ascendant is the superposition of all the wave functions of the planets as they relate to the individual's unique wave function or signature. This superposition of waves can be understood in human terms by using the ancient methods outlined in jyotish. In short, everything in the universe is related to each other. I hope this helps. JR Most astrologers would use the birth chart for the People's Republic of China: Beijing October 1st, 1949 3:01 PM AWST (-8:00) 116E25 39N55 (Time may have been rectified)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
Salyavin wrote: Once you have enough brain cells you have consciousness. Share asks: I've been reading all of today's posts, again with mixed success. Anyway, I'm guessing that I have the same amount of brain cells right now that I had during last night when I was dreaming and also when I was sleeping without dreams. I was pretty conscious during the dreams. I feel very conscious at this moment. But I'm pretty sure I was not conscious during the whole night. So it would seem that even though the number of brain cells remains constant, consciousness, as an experience, does not. PS I realize I'm taking little baby steps. It's the best I can do with this topic. Thanks for your patience. BTW, speaking of the hot human brain, scientists have recently theorized that one of the functions of yawning is to cool the brain. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodle...@mail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual loading of the kundela creates a spear of thought which pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is certain. Anxiety is a powerful thing. So it seems. The cause of the anxiety was of course a purely mental thing (or a thing in the realm of meaning), and NOT a physical thing. And the anxiety was the effect, not the cause. When I think anxiety I think adrenalin which is physical. The idea of what is frightening is held as a memory or instinct, which is an obvious evolutionary advantage. what to be scared of can also be learned, did you know it only takes two events of any sort before the brain makes a neural link to alert the rest of the system how to behave next time the stimulus is encountered. For instance, if you get nearly run over once the adrenalin dies away and the typical brain will put it down to experience. Twice and you will start to get anxious going near a road. Simple as that, and the funny thing about adrenalin is that when you are pumped up it changes the way you perceive the world, it heightens sound and movement, it changes the way blood flows in the brain so you can't think logically but can only think of running away or fighting. To enable this it drags sugars out of the liver and into the blood and draws blood from the stomach into the muscles. Best of all, any experience you have when in an aroused state gets tagged by the brain as being threatening and will cause a similar reaction if you keep having the same stimulus. This is how neuroses develop, like agoraphobia or social shyness. Anxiety can and does pollute the whole brain, mind system. Your voodoo cult member is primed from childhood to die on command. The point I'm making is, I don't see it as mind and matter, it's all the same thing to me, you can't seperate them, they don't work without each other. This is what I'm saying about consciousness, it's a function. Once you have enough brain cells you have consciousness. Emergent phenomena and it can no more be understood in terms of individual brain cells than wetness can be understood in terms of individual water molecules. Why do you think this proves something pertinent to the argument here? It's like you've just googled odd stuff about the brain and drawn some whoppingly unnecessary argument out of it. It's about the world of the mental and the world of meaning (the latter I think I'd prefer), and about how those worlds can, sometimes, extinguish the world of the merely physical. Because they are equally (or maybe more) real.
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Salyavin wrote: Once you have enough brain cells you have consciousness. Share asks: I've been reading all of today's posts, again with mixed success. Anyway, I'm guessing that I have the same amount of brain cells right now that I had during last night when I was dreaming and also when I was sleeping without dreams. I was pretty conscious during the dreams. I feel very conscious at this moment. But I'm pretty sure I was not conscious during the whole night. So it would seem that even though the number of brain cells remains constant, consciousness, as an experience, does not.    I meant that you need a certain amount to generate consciousness anyway. They stay amount stays the same overnight. But the fact that it gets switched off at night is another interesting evolutionary adaptation. Must take up a lot of energy generating all that bright inner awareness. The brain needs a bit of down time to assimilate the days events and reset itself or we go mad. Really. And then there's keeping us out of trouble in the dark where our primary sense isn't any use. Amazing thing really. I got knocked out and lost my memory once, that was interesting. I'll do a post about it tomorrow as it had a lot of fascinating features for a philosophical chap like me. PS I realize I'm taking little baby steps. It's the best I can do with this topic. Thanks for your patience. BTW, speaking of the hot human brain, scientists have recently theorized that one of the functions of yawning is to cool the brain. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual loading of the kundela creates a spear of thought which pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is certain. Anxiety is a powerful thing. So it seems. The cause of the anxiety was of course a purely mental thing (or a thing in the realm of meaning), and NOT a physical thing. And the anxiety was the effect, not the cause. When I think anxiety I think adrenalin which is physical. The idea of what is frightening is held as a memory or instinct, which is an obvious evolutionary advantage. what to be scared of can also be learned, did you know it only takes two events of any sort before the brain makes a neural link to alert the rest of the system how to behave next time the stimulus is encountered. For instance, if you get nearly run over once the adrenalin dies away and the typical brain will put it down to experience. Twice and you will start to get anxious going near a road. Simple as that, and the funny thing about adrenalin is that when you are pumped up it changes the way you perceive the world, it heightens sound and movement, it changes the way blood flows in the brain so you can't think logically but can only think of running away or fighting. To enable this it drags sugars out of the liver and into the blood and draws blood from the stomach into the muscles. Best of all, any experience you have when in an aroused state gets tagged by the brain as being threatening and will cause a similar reaction if you keep having the same stimulus. This is how neuroses develop, like agoraphobia or social shyness. Anxiety can and does pollute the whole brain, mind system. Your voodoo cult member is primed from childhood to die on command. The point I'm making is, I don't see it as mind and matter, it's all the same thing to me, you can't seperate them, they don't work without each other. This is what I'm saying about consciousness, it's a function. Once you have enough brain cells you have consciousness. Emergent phenomena and it can no more be understood in terms of individual brain cells than wetness can be understood in terms of individual water molecules. Why do you think this proves something pertinent to the argument here? It's like you've just googled odd stuff about the brain and drawn some whoppingly unnecessary argument out of it. It's about the world of the mental and the world of meaning (the latter I think I'd prefer), and about how those worlds can, sometimes, extinguish the world of the merely physical. Because they are equally (or maybe more) real.
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
Salya, FWIW, I bet you've never had flying dreams, at least not very lucid ones, or, Lawd have mercy, an OBE! :D --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Salyavin wrote: Once you have enough brain cells you have consciousness. Share asks: I've been reading all of today's posts, again with mixed success. Anyway, I'm guessing that I have the same amount of brain cells right now that I had during last night when I was dreaming and also when I was sleeping without dreams. I was pretty conscious during the dreams. I feel very conscious at this moment. But I'm pretty sure I was not conscious during the whole night. So it would seem that even though the number of brain cells remains constant, consciousness, as an experience, does not.    I meant that you need a certain amount to generate consciousness anyway. They stay amount stays the same overnight. But the fact that it gets switched off at night is another interesting evolutionary adaptation. Must take up a lot of energy generating all that bright inner awareness. The brain needs a bit of down time to assimilate the days events and reset itself or we go mad. Really. And then there's keeping us out of trouble in the dark where our primary sense isn't any use. Amazing thing really. I got knocked out and lost my memory once, that was interesting. I'll do a post about it tomorrow as it had a lot of fascinating features for a philosophical chap like me. PS I realize I'm taking little baby steps. It's the best I can do with this topic. Thanks for your patience. BTW, speaking of the hot human brain, scientists have recently theorized that one of the functions of yawning is to cool the brain. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual loading of the kundela creates a spear of thought which pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is certain. Anxiety is a powerful thing. So it seems. The cause of the anxiety was of course a purely mental thing (or a thing in the realm of meaning), and NOT a physical thing. And the anxiety was the effect, not the cause. When I think anxiety I think adrenalin which is physical. The idea of what is frightening is held as a memory or instinct, which is an obvious evolutionary advantage. what to be scared of can also be learned, did you know it only takes two events of any sort before the brain makes a neural link to alert the rest of the system how to behave next time the stimulus is encountered. For instance, if you get nearly run over once the adrenalin dies away and the typical brain will put it down to experience. Twice and you will start to get anxious going near a road. Simple as that, and the funny thing about adrenalin is that when you are pumped up it changes the way you perceive the world, it heightens sound and movement, it changes the way blood flows in the brain so you can't think logically but can only think of running away or fighting. To enable this it drags sugars out of the liver and into the blood and draws blood from the stomach into the muscles. Best of all, any experience you have when in an aroused state gets tagged by the brain as being threatening and will cause a similar reaction if you keep having the same stimulus. This is how neuroses develop, like agoraphobia or social shyness. Anxiety can and does pollute the whole brain, mind system. Your voodoo cult member is primed from childhood to die on command. The point I'm making is, I don't see it as mind and matter, it's all the same thing to me, you can't seperate them, they don't work without each other. This is what I'm saying about consciousness, it's a function. Once you have enough brain cells you have consciousness. Emergent phenomena and it can no more be understood in terms of individual brain cells than wetness can be understood in terms of individual water molecules. Why do you think this proves something pertinent to the argument here? It's like you've just googled odd stuff about the brain and drawn some whoppingly unnecessary argument out
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: Yep, a functioning brain is the seat of consciousness but groups like the TMO will attempt to weaken that idea for their own agenda. Exactly. While I appreciate your tenacity and infinite patience in trying to have a rational conversation with irrational people, I'll stay out of it. You're having the discussion with religious fanatics who are not even defending a position they came to on their own, but one that was told to them by some guy wearing a white sheet, who they chose to believe and onto whom they project unwarranted wisdom. My bet is that if Maharishi had said that consciousness was the result of little green fairies dancing to the sounds of a heavenly orchestra led by Lawrence Welk, they'd be here arguing the quantum physics of the accordion, using slides prepared by John Hagelin. :-) I honestly don't know which current conversation is more ludicrous -- the people clinging to a belief in astrology/ Jyotish because they want to believe that life is predict- able, or the people clinging to a belief in consciousness not requiring a body because they want to believe that their individual consciousness survives death. I'm going to wait for more meaningful philosophical conversations, such as the reasons TBs will come up with for why the guy who threw 100 million dollars at perpet- uating the myth that the Maharishi Effect actually *does* something is suffering from financial difficulties. Seems to me that if the so-called and often-praised Laws Of Nature actually existed, if anyone deserved a little reach-around from them, it'd be him. :-) In the meantime, I'll just amuse myself by reading suck it up and work in the afternoons speeches from people who have been sucking up cushy salaries from the TMO for the last few decades, and still are. After all, it's not as if *they* are concerned about where their rent money will come from. And for that matter, it's not as if *they* have ever been seen in the domes themselves (someone may correct me if I'm wrong about this...I'm basing it on things said here in the past). One thing you've got to say about the TM movement -- it never fails to amuse... :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: It doesn't contradict anything I've said about consciousness anyway. Placing of brain structures is well understood, it can be predicted what functions people will lose or have difficulty with after a damage to the brain. I'm not convinced by your bravado here. On the contrary, it seems to me that our expectations have been confounded, not confirmed. I am not a brain scientist (and I take it neither are you). But here we have Scientific American: Neurosurgeons have performed the operation on children as young as three months old. Astonishingly, memory and personality develop normally. Why do they say astonishingly? Or: Remarkably, few other impacts are seen. If the left side of the brain is taken out, most people have problems with their speech, but it used to be thought that if you took that side out after age two, you'd never talk again, and we've proven that untrue, Freeman says. The younger a person is when they undergo hemispherectomy, the less disability you have in talking. Where on the right side of the brain speech is transferred to and what it displaces is something nobody has really worked out. Why do they say Remarkably? My wild guess is the astral (suukSma-shariira) counterpart of the left side is to blame... ;-)
[FairfieldLife] What a Yahoo bug reveals about FFL
Merely an observation, occasioned by the fact that the Yahoo Web reader seems to have developed a bug today that causes it to hide the names of the poster when you read posts by clicking Next to view them in posting order. You can still see the posters' names in Message View, but when reading the individual messages, the name field is blank. The observation is that I never needed to see the names to know who made the posts. The styles and beliefs of posters have become so recognizable and predictable over the years that there was never any question whose posts I was reading. Try it. See if I'm wrong...
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: Yep, a functioning brain is the seat of consciousness but groups like the TMO will attempt to weaken that idea for their own agenda. Exactly. While I appreciate your tenacity and infinite patience in trying to have a rational conversation with irrational people, I'll stay out of it. You're having the discussion with religious fanatics who are not even defending a position they came to on their own, but one that was told to them by some guy wearing a white sheet, who they chose to believe and onto whom they project unwarranted wisdom. Wow, Barry's wrong *again*. He hasn't actually read the posts, so he isn't aware there's a nonreligious case to be made for consciousness not being explainable on the basis of biology. But then, salyavin's been making the same mistake, and he *has* been reading the posts. Makes you wonder who the Fundamentalists are, don't it?
[FairfieldLife] Re: What a Yahoo bug reveals about FFL
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Merely an observation, occasioned by the fact that the Yahoo Web reader seems to have developed a bug today that causes it to hide the names of the poster when you read posts by clicking Next to view them in posting order. You can still see the posters' names in Message View, but when reading the individual messages, the name field is blank. The observation is that I never needed to see the names to know who made the posts. How come you're not using Message View to go through the posts as you claim you always do? The styles and beliefs of posters have become so recognizable and predictable over the years that there was never any question whose posts I was reading. Try it. See if I'm wrong... One would have to be pretty dense not to be able to recognize the posters by their writing styles alone, or even simply by the way they format their posts. And goodness knows there's never any question of who is writing *Barry's* posts, regardless of writing style and formatting.
[FairfieldLife] FW: CNN Breaking News
From: CNN Breaking News [mailto:breakingn...@mail.cnn.com] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 3:04 PM To: textbreakingn...@ema3lsv06.turner.com Subject: CNN Breaking News A new CNN/ORC International poll shows that President Barack Obama remains popular and a majority of Americans continue to think he is honest and has managed the government effectively, while the tea party movement got a boost after being targeted by the IRS. The survey was taken last week after the IRS, Benghazi and Associated Press controversies marked one of the worst weeks for the White House. It asked if Obama is a strong leader, with 58% saying he is, a level he last reached just after the death of Osama bin Laden in 2011. The tea party movement's overall favorable rating is up nine points to 37% since March; 45% hold an unfavorable view of the tea party, the poll shows. Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, a favorite for the Democratic presidential nomination if she runs in 2016, continues to hold a favorable rating over 60%. The survey, conducted May 17-18, has a sampling error of +/- 3 percentage po ints. Follow complete coverage of breaking news on CNN TV, http://cnn.com and CNN Mobile.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What a Yahoo bug reveals about FFL
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: One would have to be pretty dense not to be able to recognize the posters by their writing styles alone, or even simply by the way they format their posts. Says the person who staked her reputation as a professional editor on the belief that the person posting as enlightened_dawn11 was not Jim Flanegin. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: What a Yahoo bug reveals about FFL
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: One would have to be pretty dense not to be able to recognize the posters by their writing styles alone, or even simply by the way they format their posts. Says the person who staked her reputation as a professional editor on the belief that the person posting as enlightened_dawn11 was not Jim Flanegin. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) Just a TENY bit different there, but you knew that.
Re: [FairfieldLife] FW: CNN Breaking News
On 05/20/2013 01:29 PM, Rick Archer wrote: From: CNN Breaking News [mailto:breakingn...@mail.cnn.com] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 3:04 PM To: textbreakingn...@ema3lsv06.turner.com Subject: CNN Breaking News A new CNN/ORC International poll shows that President Barack Obama remains popular and a majority of Americans continue to think he is honest and has managed the government effectively, while the tea party movement got a boost after being targeted by the IRS. The survey was taken last week after the IRS, Benghazi and Associated Press controversies marked one of the worst weeks for the White House. It asked if Obama is a strong leader, with 58% saying he is, a level he last reached just after the death of Osama bin Laden in 2011. The tea party movement's overall favorable rating is up nine points to 37% since March; 45% hold an unfavorable view of the tea party, the poll shows. Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, a favorite for the Democratic presidential nomination if she runs in 2016, continues to hold a favorable rating over 60%. The survey, conducted May 17-18, has a sampling error of +/- 3 percentage po ints. Follow complete coverage of breaking news on CNN TV, http://cnn.com and CNN Mobile. Rah, rah, rah for Wall Street? I'm very disappointed with this administration. Dumbed down Americans are probably not worth polling anyway. They're mostly a pile of know nothings though they can probably tell you all about Lindsay Lohan. And a CNN poll would even be worse. American politics, both right and left, are a sham. We know the IRS and tax system needs an overhaul. It is an insult to ALL Americans.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What a Yahoo bug reveals about FFL
and you think you are some kind of ENIGMA, on here, Bud? ...Oh, who was that, just posted that last post in FFL endlessly bitching about something in his past that SHOULD BE FIXED, but isn't? Think it was Barry?? ...Talk about a signature. It would be unprecedented to see you go a whole week, without getting your panties in a twist about SOMETHING. Standing bet: I'll give you a quarter if you ever do it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Merely an observation, occasioned by the fact that the Yahoo Web reader seems to have developed a bug today that causes it to hide the names of the poster when you read posts by clicking Next to view them in posting order. You can still see the posters' names in Message View, but when reading the individual messages, the name field is blank. The observation is that I never needed to see the names to know who made the posts. The styles and beliefs of posters have become so recognizable and predictable over the years that there was never any question whose posts I was reading. Try it. See if I'm wrong...
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card cardemaister@... wrote: Salya, FWIW, I bet you've never had flying dreams, at least not very lucid ones, or, Lawd have mercy, an OBE! :D I'm intrigued as to why you'd bet that Card. I used to get them a lot, really amazing feeling and when I woke up I couldn't believe it wasn't possible not to just jump in the sky and go wherever I wanted. Convinced? I'd love an OBE and have met a few who have had them but as convinced as they are that they were out of their bodies, I remain unconvinced that it's anything other than a shift of perception. But some doctors in UK hospitals are interested enough by anecdote to have put some unusual objects on shelves in operating theatres that it would be impossible for anyone brought in on a trolley to know what they are. So if anyone has an OBE the first question that will get asked is: what was on the shelf? I always say I convert for evidence, some consistent hits like that would be a good start at paradigm shifting! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Salyavin wrote: Once you have enough brain cells you have consciousness. Share asks: I've been reading all of today's posts, again with mixed success. Anyway, I'm guessing that I have the same amount of brain cells right now that I had during last night when I was dreaming and also when I was sleeping without dreams. I was pretty conscious during the dreams. I feel very conscious at this moment. But I'm pretty sure I was not conscious during the whole night. So it would seem that even though the number of brain cells remains constant, consciousness, as an experience, does not.    I meant that you need a certain amount to generate consciousness anyway. They stay amount stays the same overnight. But the fact that it gets switched off at night is another interesting evolutionary adaptation. Must take up a lot of energy generating all that bright inner awareness. The brain needs a bit of down time to assimilate the days events and reset itself or we go mad. Really. And then there's keeping us out of trouble in the dark where our primary sense isn't any use. Amazing thing really. I got knocked out and lost my memory once, that was interesting. I'll do a post about it tomorrow as it had a lot of fascinating features for a philosophical chap like me. PS I realize I'm taking little baby steps. It's the best I can do with this topic. Thanks for your patience. BTW, speaking of the hot human brain, scientists have recently theorized that one of the functions of yawning is to cool the brain. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual loading of the kundela creates a spear of thought which pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is certain. Anxiety is a powerful thing. So it seems. The cause of the anxiety was of course a purely mental thing (or a thing in the realm of meaning), and NOT a physical thing. And the anxiety was the effect, not the cause. When I think anxiety I think adrenalin which is physical. The idea of what is frightening is held as a memory or instinct, which is an obvious evolutionary advantage. what to be scared of can also be learned, did you know it only takes two events of any sort before the brain makes a neural link to alert the rest of the system how to behave next time the stimulus is encountered. For instance, if you get nearly run over once the adrenalin dies away and the typical brain will put it down to experience. Twice and you will start to get anxious going near a road. Simple as that, and the funny thing about adrenalin is that when you are pumped up it changes the way you perceive the world, it heightens sound and movement, it changes the way blood flows in the brain so you can't think logically but can only think of running away or fighting. To enable this it drags sugars out of the liver and into the blood and draws blood from the stomach into the muscles. Best of all, any experience you
[FairfieldLife] Monsanto Suffers Key Court Loss on Brazil
Monsanto Suffers Key Court Loss on Brazil RR1 Royalties Brazil's top appeals court Thursday reiterated its ruling that Monsanto's patent on first-generation RoundUp Ready soybeans expired in September 2010 and the U.S. biotech giant had been charging royalties illegally for over two years. The unanimous decision puts another dent in Monsanto's claim that it has the right to charge royalties in Brazil until 2014, in line with the rest of the world. Monsanto will appeal the ruling at Brazil's appeals court and also at the Supreme Court, the St. Louis-based company said in a statement, adding that it remained 'confident in its rights and the validity of its RR1 soybean patent until 2014.' But farmer representatives said the appeals court justices' decision leaves Monsanto's position in tatters. The Supreme Appeals Court put a full stop to Monsanto's decision to insist in not following the law, said Ricardo Tomczyk, vice-president of the Mato Grosso Soybean and Corn Producers Association (APROSOJA-MT). Farmers and Monsanto have been fighting over the expiry of the RR1 patent for a number of years. Following a series of legal reverses, in February Monsanto suspended royalties on RR1 until a final legal decision was reached. APROSOJA is seeking that Monsanto repay royalty payments made between 2010 and 2013 at double the initial value. RoundUp Ready dominates the Brazilian soybean market with the gene present in approximately 85% of locally produced beans. Up until today, Monsanto charged RoundUp royalties at 2% on seeds or at $3.60 to $4.80 per acre on planted land. Monsanto is keen to close this case before it launches Intacta RR2 Pro soybeans in Brazil. In January, it signed a general agreement with Brazil's National Agricultural Confederation (CNA) and 10 state farm federations under which it offered to waive future royalties on RR1, if farmers waived the right to sue for past royalties. The deal caused controversy as farm groups objected to the contracts drawn up by Monsanto, based on the agreement, under which farmers not only agreed to waive rights to sue on RR1 royalties but also had to agree to respect patent rights on RR2, including the right to collect royalties post production. Monsanto subsequently dropped the RR2 clauses, but the latest decision makes the RR1 accord look less and less attractive. Monsanto sees huge potential for its new insect-resistant RR2 seeds. It hopes to launch them in Brazil for next season, which starts in September. But it agreed to roll out the seeds commercially only after China, Brazil's main soy client, approves the technology, which it has failed to do so far. Monsanto wants to charge five times more in royalties for RR2 compared with RR1, arguing that it offers much greater gains in yields and cost reductions. Earlier this year, a Monsanto representative announced at a farm show in southern Brazil that it would charge R$115 per hectare ($23.28 per acre) for the new seed. (AG) © Copyright 2013 DTN/The Progressive Farmer. All rights reserved. Monsanto Suffers Key Court Loss on Brazil RR1 Royalties Brazil's top appeals court Thursday reiterated its ruling that Monsanto's patent on first-generation RoundUp Ready soybeans expired in September 2010 and the U.S. biotech giant had been charging royalties illegally for over two years. The unanimous decision puts another dent in Monsanto's claim that it has the right to charge royalties in Brazil until 2014, in line with the rest of the world. Monsanto will appeal the ruling at Brazil's appeals court and also at the Supreme Court, the St. Louis-based company said in a statement, adding that it remained 'confident in its rights and the validity of its RR1 soybean patent until 2014.' But farmer representatives said the appeals court justices' decision leaves Monsanto's position in tatters. The Supreme Appeals Court put a full stop to Monsanto's decision to insist in not following the law, said Ricardo Tomczyk, vice-president of the Mato Grosso Soybean and Corn Producers Association (APROSOJA-MT). Farmers and Monsanto have been fighting over the expiry of the RR1 patent for a number of years. Following a series of legal reverses, in February Monsanto suspended royalties on RR1 until a final legal decision was reached. APROSOJA is seeking that Monsanto repay royalty payments made between 2010 and 2013 at double the initial value. RoundUp Ready dominates the Brazilian soybean market with the gene present in approximately 85% of locally produced beans. Up until today, Monsanto charged RoundUp royalties at 2% on seeds or at $3.60 to $4.80 per acre on planted land. Monsanto is keen to close this case before it launches Intacta RR2 Pro soybeans in Brazil. In January, it signed a general agreement with Brazil's National Agricultural Confederation (CNA) and 10 state farm federations under which it offered to waive future royalties on RR1, if farmers waived the right to sue for past royalties. The deal caused
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: (snip) The point I'm making is, I don't see it as mind and matter, it's all the same thing to me, you can't seperate them, they don't work without each other. This is what I'm saying about consciousness, it's a function. Once you have enough brain cells you have consciousness. Emergent phenomena and it can no more be understood in terms of individual brain cells than wetness can be understood in terms of individual water molecules. This is at least a reasonable outlook. But you realize it's not what you were telling me earlier, right? It also doesn't have anything to do with the hard problem I've been trying to get you to grapple with.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 05/20/2013 11:33 AM, John wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: Ann, Please, read my response to Share on this same thread. I'm surprised there's such interest in the chart of Red China. JR I have to be honest with you JR, I was kind of making a joke about it all (but you knew that). I mean, of all the countries, China is one of the most ancient and determining its actual moment of inception would be pretty hard to figure out. I do admire you, however, for two reasons: you seem to be a particularly nice fellow and your knowledge of Jyotish is extensive. However, I do find it comical (and it may well be because I am ignorant of the subject) but determining the astrological chart of anything other than a human being seems fairly absurd. However, I am prepared to be enlightened on why this is not necessarily so if this is not the case. Ann, The birth of a nation, a political system, an organization, and even a thought or idea is similar to the birth of an individual. In jyotish, the birth time is the point in time when the lagna occurs, meaning that this is the time the planets grasp the person or entity with its karmic quality. This can be interpreted by casting the horoscope of that specific time which shows the placement of the planets in the zodiac. IMO, in using the concepts in modern day quantum physics, the ascendant determines the special combination of wave functions from the various planets which interacts with the wave function of the person or entity in question. We can also say the ascendant is the superposition of all the wave functions of the planets as they relate to the individual's unique wave function or signature. This superposition of waves can be understood in human terms by using the ancient methods outlined in jyotish. In short, everything in the universe is related to each other. I hope this helps. JR Most astrologers would use the birth chart for the People's Republic of China: Beijing October 1st, 1949 3:01 PM AWST (-8:00) 116E25 39N55 (Time may have been rectified) Bhairitu, Share, and Ann, I'm not sure how this date and time was derived and if it is authentic. Nonetheless, in using this data, the ascendant of the People's Republic of China would be Capricorn with the Moon in the nakshatra of Uttara Shaddah. In making a cursory review of the charts of the USA and China, both nations have Kujadosha which facilitates in the cooperation and partnership between them. Since the Mars of China is in conjunction with the Venus of the USA in the 7th house, there is a very strong bond between the nations, almost bordering to a sexual orgy or attraction. Perhaps, this is the reason why both nations are in close trade agreement. A surprising feature of the China chart is the placement of Venus in Libra in the 10th house. This means that China will be very good in creativity, the fine arts, women's rights, female products, clothing, cars and international politics. JR
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: One thing you've got to say about the TM movement -- it never fails to amuse... :-) And, given the amount of posts and energy the Turq devotes in posting about the TMO, it certainly has made a deep impression on this poor soul - 40 years after he realized he was only in it for the broads and consequently jumped ship he still goes on and on about it. Remarkable !
[FairfieldLife] March Against Monsanto T-Shirts
Tuesday, May 14, 2013 March Against Monsanto T-Shirts http://www.march-against-monsanto.com/2013/05/march-against-monsanto-t-\ shirts.htmlUPDATE: May 15 was the last day to order to receive these t-shirts in time for the May 25 March Against Monsanto. However, these GMO FREE organic cotton t-shirts are still available for purchase through the month of May to commemorate the movement. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Egv_15nNh6o/UZKRucFanSI/AAQ/UU6FFrDO5\ sw/s1600/969716_10151480010838505_898507768_n.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SBMt-D_K1So/UZKSDBtoPfI/AAY/uHvRg4eLD\ uY/s1600/weaddup.png Order your shirt(s) now! Order here: https://www.weaddup.com/product.php?productid=138 https://www.weaddup.com/product.php?productid=138 These shirts are sold through We Add Up. From the We Add Up website: We Add Up is an organic t-shirt campaign that counts you in for your positive impact in the world. Each t-shirt is custom printed with a unique number. YOUR number is your position in our global count of people adding up to make change. Each shirt is one of a kind. When you purchase a WE ADD UP tee and get your number, you help our count grow. Our goal is to show that small changes make a big difference and We Add Up! Twenty percent of the proceeds are donated from We Add Up to go towards helping local events get the resources they need, and towards building the March Against Monsanto into a permanent activist network! For more info on how our fundraising partnership with We Add Up works, check this out: https://www.weaddup.com/fundraiser https://www.weaddup.com/fundraiser
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
On 05/20/2013 03:07 PM, John wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 05/20/2013 11:33 AM, John wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: Ann, Please, read my response to Share on this same thread. I'm surprised there's such interest in the chart of Red China. JR I have to be honest with you JR, I was kind of making a joke about it all (but you knew that). I mean, of all the countries, China is one of the most ancient and determining its actual moment of inception would be pretty hard to figure out. I do admire you, however, for two reasons: you seem to be a particularly nice fellow and your knowledge of Jyotish is extensive. However, I do find it comical (and it may well be because I am ignorant of the subject) but determining the astrological chart of anything other than a human being seems fairly absurd. However, I am prepared to be enlightened on why this is not necessarily so if this is not the case. Ann, The birth of a nation, a political system, an organization, and even a thought or idea is similar to the birth of an individual. In jyotish, the birth time is the point in time when the lagna occurs, meaning that this is the time the planets grasp the person or entity with its karmic quality. This can be interpreted by casting the horoscope of that specific time which shows the placement of the planets in the zodiac. IMO, in using the concepts in modern day quantum physics, the ascendant determines the special combination of wave functions from the various planets which interacts with the wave function of the person or entity in question. We can also say the ascendant is the superposition of all the wave functions of the planets as they relate to the individual's unique wave function or signature. This superposition of waves can be understood in human terms by using the ancient methods outlined in jyotish. In short, everything in the universe is related to each other. I hope this helps. JR Most astrologers would use the birth chart for the People's Republic of China: Beijing October 1st, 1949 3:01 PM AWST (-8:00) 116E25 39N55 (Time may have been rectified) Bhairitu, Share, and Ann, I'm not sure how this date and time was derived and if it is authentic. Nonetheless, in using this data, the ascendant of the People's Republic of China would be Capricorn with the Moon in the nakshatra of Uttara Shaddah. Did you even bother to look it up on the Internet? Standard Wikipedia stuff. The time may have been rectified by astrologers as I took it from a chart but many other sites used that.
[FairfieldLife] Manzarek Bails
Was Manzarek just a TM'er or also a teacher? Anyway he's bailed from the planet: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-207_162-57585387/ray-manzarek-founding-member-of-the-doors-dies-at-74/ When my band opened for the Doors he was the only one who could carry on a conversation.
[FairfieldLife] The Super Storms have arrived
Mile wide tornado hits Oklahoma. But righties will say, don't worry, Jeezuss is coming. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/20/oklahoma-city-tornado-2013_n_3308384.html
[FairfieldLife] Consciousness
Following, rather superficially, the recent subject of the brain's relationship to consciousness I have had a couple of thoughts which are not based on scientific evidence or objective proof of any kind. Consciousness is a characteristic of being alive, having a functioning brain and having a perceiver to perceive what is generated by certain activity of the brain. Consciousness is also present in all forms of life that possess a nervous system. I think it is also much more than this. I think consciousness is also very much a disembodied phenomenon which can exist outside of a physical body. I believe some consciousness can be generated by a brain but that this consciousness is energy,that also finds its way outside of the physical that comprises a nervous system and is set loose into the surrounding environment, consciousness continues b
RE: [FairfieldLife] Manzarek Bails
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bhairitu Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 5:39 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Manzarek Bails Was Manzarek just a TM'er or also a teacher? Anyway he's bailed from the planet: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-207_162-57585387/ray-manzarek-founding-member-of -the-doors-dies-at-74/ When my band opened for the Doors he was the only one who could carry on a conversation. I think all but Morrison were regular meditators. They may all have been initiated. Some songs had TM lyrics: Take it easy baby. Take it as it comes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Consciousness
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: Following, rather superficially, the recent subject of the brain's relationship to consciousness I have had a couple of thoughts which are not based on scientific evidence or objective proof of any kind. Consciousness is a characteristic of being alive, having a functioning brain and having a perceiver to perceive what is generated by certain activity of the brain. Consciousness is also present in all forms of life that possess a nervous system. I think it is also much more than this. I think consciousness is also very much a disembodied phenomenon which can exist outside of a physical body. I believe some consciousness can be generated by a brain but that this consciousness is energy,that also finds its way outside of the physical that comprises a nervous system and is set loose into the surrounding environment, consciousness continues b (Shit, I just hit 'send' with my baby finger by mistake and off this little missive flew; just like what I was talking about above when I was so rudely interrupted by my last finger on my right hand. What just happened is a perfect example of a human exhibiting some aspect of consciousness and then, due to an errant pinky, off the message/post/result of consciousness flys these words into cyberspace as a new kind of energy that re-manifests as a post in somebody's inbox.) Anyway, what was I saying? Something about consciousness continuing on in the environment/atmosphere as a manifestation of energy. In this disembodied form consciousness no longer needs a brain to exist or effect. And I believe it could keep existing forever in this brainless/bodyless form. I certainly can not prove this but I feel it to be right. Consciousness is everywhere, it envelopes us all the time. I believe it to be an integral part of what allows the universe to function - it is intelligence. I think we are cocooned in it. We do not create it, it passes through us. We have the receptor to know it is present (a brain) but it pre-dates us, it is already, before we were and well after the current body is gone. Consciousness possesses structure but not physical structure that we can always perceive. But I do think the physical world is built by consciousness so there are concrete things all around us that possess the building blocks of consciousness. (I'm just working this out as I write, I never really thought about this like this before so go boil some potatoes or make the bed because I am most likely blathering here.) Still, this is an interesting topic and if I wasn't pecking away at this on my iPad I might want to come back to it later. I'll just sit and let a bit more consciousness wash over me and get back to you if I figure anything else out.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Super Storms have arrived
Bhairitu: Mile wide tornado hits Oklahoma. But righties will say, don't worry, Jeezuss is coming. This a sick way of sharing news - you suck as a spiritual teacher. Is this the best you can do? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/20/oklahoma-city-tornado-2013_n_3308384.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Super Storms have arrived
On 05/20/2013 04:31 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: Bhairitu: Mile wide tornado hits Oklahoma. But righties will say, don't worry, Jeezuss is coming. This a sick way of sharing news - you suck as a spiritual teacher. Is this the best you can do? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/20/oklahoma-city-tornado-2013_n_3308384.html You fail at getting the nuance, don't you? Must be the Texas air. So let me help you. Why would I say that about righties? Because they are climate change deniers and I think this may be the shape of storms to come. I may be wrong but then I would suspect that won't change the right wing's climate change denier's thinking. Got it? Spiritual teaching can take many forms.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
Thanks noozguru and John, very fascinating chart of China, very fascinating compatibility chart between China and USA. From: John jr_...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 5:07 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 05/20/2013 11:33 AM, John wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: Ann, Please, read my response to Share on this same thread. I'm surprised there's such interest in the chart of Red China. JR I have to be honest with you JR, I was kind of making a joke about it all (but you knew that). I mean, of all the countries, China is one of the most ancient and determining its actual moment of inception would be pretty hard to figure out. I do admire you, however, for two reasons: you seem to be a particularly nice fellow and your knowledge of Jyotish is extensive. However, I do find it comical (and it may well be because I am ignorant of the subject) but determining the astrological chart of anything other than a human being seems fairly absurd. However, I am prepared to be enlightened on why this is not necessarily so if this is not the case. Ann, The birth of a nation, a political system, an organization, and even a thought or idea is similar to the birth of an individual. In jyotish, the birth time is the point in time when the lagna occurs, meaning that this is the time the planets grasp the person or entity with its karmic quality. This can be interpreted by casting the horoscope of that specific time which shows the placement of the planets in the zodiac. IMO, in using the concepts in modern day quantum physics, the ascendant determines the special combination of wave functions from the various planets which interacts with the wave function of the person or entity in question. We can also say the ascendant is the superposition of all the wave functions of the planets as they relate to the individual's unique wave function or signature. This superposition of waves can be understood in human terms by using the ancient methods outlined in jyotish. In short, everything in the universe is related to each other. I hope this helps. JR Most astrologers would use the birth chart for the People's Republic of China: Beijing October 1st, 1949 3:01 PM AWST (-8:00) 116E25 39N55 (Time may have been rectified) Bhairitu, Share, and Ann, I'm not sure how this date and time was derived and if it is authentic. Nonetheless, in using this data, the ascendant of the People's Republic of China would be Capricorn with the Moon in the nakshatra of Uttara Shaddah. In making a cursory review of the charts of the USA and China, both nations have Kujadosha which facilitates in the cooperation and partnership between them. Since the Mars of China is in conjunction with the Venus of the USA in the 7th house, there is a very strong bond between the nations, almost bordering to a sexual orgy or attraction. Perhaps, this is the reason why both nations are in close trade agreement. A surprising feature of the China chart is the placement of Venus in Libra in the 10th house. This means that China will be very good in creativity, the fine arts, women's rights, female products, clothing, cars and international politics. JR
[FairfieldLife] Post Count Tue 21-May-13 00:15:03 UTC
Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): 05/18/13 00:00:00 End Date (UTC): 05/25/13 00:00:00 247 messages as of (UTC) 05/21/13 00:14:33 24 doctordumbass 20 Share Long 19 Ravi Chivukula 18 Ann 17 Bhairitu 16 salyavin808 16 authfriend 15 card 13 seventhray27 10 nablusoss1008 9 turquoiseb 7 Xenophaneros Anartaxius 7 John 6 wgm4u 5 merlin 5 Rick Archer 4 sparaig 4 merudanda 4 feste37 4 Richard J. Williams 4 PaliGap 4 Alex Stanley 3 Jason 2 raunchydog 2 Susan 2 Buck 1 srijau 1 martyboi 1 azgrey 1 WLeed3 1 Mike Dixon 1 Dick Mays 1 Carol Posters: 33 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit
Share, Bhairitu, and Ann The date and time of the proclamation of Mao Tse Tung to start the People's Republic of China is correct. See link below: http://gochina.about.com/od/eventsfestivals/a/NationalDay.htm JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Thanks noozguru and John, very fascinating chart of China, very fascinating compatibility chart between China and USA. From: John jr_esq@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 5:07 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Chinese Taking Root in Detroit  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 05/20/2013 11:33 AM, John wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: Ann, Please, read my response to Share on this same thread. I'm surprised there's such interest in the chart of Red China. JR I have to be honest with you JR, I was kind of making a joke about it all (but you knew that). I mean, of all the countries, China is one of the most ancient and determining its actual moment of inception would be pretty hard to figure out. I do admire you, however, for two reasons: you seem to be a particularly nice fellow and your knowledge of Jyotish is extensive. However, I do find it comical (and it may well be because I am ignorant of the subject) but determining the astrological chart of anything other than a human being seems fairly absurd. However, I am prepared to be enlightened on why this is not necessarily so if this is not the case. Ann, The birth of a nation, a political system, an organization, and even a thought or idea is similar to the birth of an individual. In jyotish, the birth time is the point in time when the lagna occurs, meaning that this is the time the planets grasp the person or entity with its karmic quality. This can be interpreted by casting the horoscope of that specific time which shows the placement of the planets in the zodiac. IMO, in using the concepts in modern day quantum physics, the ascendant determines the special combination of wave functions from the various planets which interacts with the wave function of the person or entity in question. We can also say the ascendant is the superposition of all the wave functions of the planets as they relate to the individual's unique wave function or signature. This superposition of waves can be understood in human terms by using the ancient methods outlined in jyotish. In short, everything in the universe is related to each other. I hope this helps. JR Most astrologers would use the birth chart for the People's Republic of China: Beijing October 1st, 1949 3:01 PM AWST (-8:00) 116E25 39N55 (Time may have been rectified) Bhairitu, Share, and Ann, I'm not sure how this date and time was derived and if it is authentic. Nonetheless, in using this data, the ascendant of the People's Republic of China would be Capricorn with the Moon in the nakshatra of Uttara Shaddah. In making a cursory review of the charts of the USA and China, both nations have Kujadosha which facilitates in the cooperation and partnership between them. Since the Mars of China is in conjunction with the Venus of the USA in the 7th house, there is a very strong bond between the nations, almost bordering to a sexual orgy or attraction. Perhaps, this is the reason why both nations are in close trade agreement. A surprising feature of the China chart is the placement of Venus in Libra in the 10th house. This means that China will be very good in creativity, the fine arts, women's rights, female products, clothing, cars and international politics. JR
Re: [FairfieldLife] The Super Storms have arrived
Ah yes, but we here, on FairfieldLife, know that if only a few more would meditate and do yogic flying, stop eating beef,driving pick-ups, turn in their guns and pay more taxes, dat ebry ting gonna be alright maan. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 3:41 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Super Storms have arrived Mile wide tornado hits Oklahoma. But righties will say, don't worry, Jeezuss is coming. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/20/oklahoma-city-tornado-2013_n_3308384.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Super Storms have arrived
Mile wide tornado hits Oklahoma. But righties will say, don't worry, Jeezuss is coming. This a sick way of sharing news - you suck as a spiritual teacher. Is this the best you can do? Bhairitu: You fail at getting the nuance, don't you? Must be the Texas air. So let me help you. Who said I was in Texas? Why would I say that about righties? Because they are climate change deniers and I think this may be the shape of storms to come. I may be wrong but then I would suspect that won't change the right wing's climate change denier's thinking. Got it? So, the climate change deniers are to blame for the OK tornado? Go figure. Spiritual teaching can take many forms. Hey! You're the guy that's to the 'right' of Mother Kali - why didn't you chant a spell, or did you? LoL!
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Super Storms have arrived
Mike Dixon: Ah yes, but we here, on FairfieldLife, know that if only a few more would meditate and do yogic flying, stop eating beef,driving pick-ups, turn in their guns and pay more taxes, And chant mantras. dat ebry ting gonna be alright maan. So, how many centuries have they had tornados up in Tornado Alley? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_Alley
[FairfieldLife] Construction of the Temple in Jerusalem
Jean Fouquet, 15-th century: http://www.museumsyndicate.com/images/3/21051.jpg
[FairfieldLife] Re: Consciousness
Ann: Following, rather superficially, the recent subject of the brain's relationship to consciousness I have had a couple of thoughts which are not based on scientific evidence or objective proof of any kind. It is a real challenge to refute or argue against the 'consciousness only' or the idealistic point-of-view. Even Barry gets confused on this, thinking that 'free will' is something other than idealism. Go figure. In the West, you'd have to argue against Immanuel Kant, George Hegel and Arthur Schopenhauer. Not an easy task. In the Upanishads, there are Shankara and his guru Gaudapada to refute and the whole host of Advaitins up to and including Ramana Maharshi. The Kashmiri Swami Laksmanjoo supported the 'Trika' system which takes 'Pure Consciousness' as the Ultimate Reality. Similarly, almost the whole of Zen Buddhism supports the consciousness only metaphysics. Not to mention Naga Arjuna's Madhyamika and the Vijnanavada Tradition of Asanga and Vasabandhu. Consciousness is a characteristic of being alive, having a functioning brain and having a perceiver to perceive what is generated by certain activity of the brain. Consciousness is also present in all forms of life that possess a nervous system. I think it is also much more than this. Excerpt from Mandukya Karika IV by Gaudapada: Duality is only an appearance; non-duality is the real truth. The object exists as an object for the knowing subject; but it does not exist outside of consciousness because the distinction of subject and object is within consciousness. (IV 25-27) Sharma, p. 245-246. I think consciousness is also very much a disembodied phenomenon which can exist outside of a physical body. I believe some consciousness can be generated by a brain but that this consciousness is energy,that also finds its way outside of the physical that comprises a nervous system and is set loose into the surrounding environment, consciousness continues b Excerpt from Mahayana Sutra Lankara by Asanga: Pure consciousness is the only Reality. By its nature, it is Self-luminous. (XIII, 13). Thus shaking off duality, he directly perceives the Absolute which is the unity underlying phenomena (dharmadatu). (VI, 7) Sharma, p. 112-113
[FairfieldLife] Re: FW: CNN Breaking News
The tea party movement's overall favorable rating is up nine points to 37% since March Bhairitu: I'm very disappointed with this administration... Let's see, the Dems have Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. The GOP has Marco Rubio, Chris Christie, Paul Ryan, Nikki Haley, Ted Cruz, Rick Perry, Bobby Jindal, Nikki Haley, Rick Perry and Rand Paul. LoL!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Consciousness
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams richard@... wrote: Ann: Following, rather superficially, the recent subject of the brain's relationship to consciousness I have had a couple of thoughts which are not based on scientific evidence or objective proof of any kind. It is a real challenge to refute or argue against the 'consciousness only' or the idealistic point-of-view. Even Barry gets confused on this, thinking that 'free will' is something other than idealism. Go figure. FWIW, Idealism in this context doesn't mean having high ideals. It's the philosophical theory that matter is emergent from consciousness rather than the reverse (Materialism).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Consciousness
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams richard@... wrote: Ann: Following, rather superficially, the recent subject of the brain's relationship to consciousness I have had a couple of thoughts which are not based on scientific evidence or objective proof of any kind. It is a real challenge to refute or argue against the 'consciousness only' or the idealistic point-of-view. Suppose that 'consciousness only' and 'materialism only' (consciousness as an emergent property) are both wrong, and that metaphysics and science also are both wrong, and that imagination nor logic can illuminate the problem. Then what? Even Barry gets confused on this, thinking that 'free will' is something other than idealism. Go figure. In the West, you'd have to argue against Immanuel Kant, George Hegel and Arthur Schopenhauer. Not an easy task. In the Upanishads, there are Shankara and his guru Gaudapada to refute and the whole host of Advaitins up to and including Ramana Maharshi. The Kashmiri Swami Laksmanjoo supported the 'Trika' system which takes 'Pure Consciousness' as the Ultimate Reality. Similarly, almost the whole of Zen Buddhism supports the consciousness only metaphysics. Not to mention Naga Arjuna's Madhyamika and the Vijnanavada Tradition of Asanga and Vasabandhu. Consciousness is a characteristic of being alive, having a functioning brain and having a perceiver to perceive what is generated by certain activity of the brain. Consciousness is also present in all forms of life that possess a nervous system. I think it is also much more than this. Excerpt from Mandukya Karika IV by Gaudapada: Duality is only an appearance; non-duality is the real truth. The object exists as an object for the knowing subject; but it does not exist outside of consciousness because the distinction of subject and object is within consciousness. (IV 25-27) Sharma, p. 245-246. I think consciousness is also very much a disembodied phenomenon which can exist outside of a physical body. I believe some consciousness can be generated by a brain but that this consciousness is energy,that also finds its way outside of the physical that comprises a nervous system and is set loose into the surrounding environment, consciousness continues b Excerpt from Mahayana Sutra Lankara by Asanga: Pure consciousness is the only Reality. By its nature, it is Self-luminous. (XIII, 13). Thus shaking off duality, he directly perceives the Absolute which is the unity underlying phenomena (dharmadatu). (VI, 7) Sharma, p. 112-113
[FairfieldLife] Re: Consciousness
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams richard@ wrote: Ann: Following, rather superficially, the recent subject of the brain's relationship to consciousness I have had a couple of thoughts which are not based on scientific evidence or objective proof of any kind. It is a real challenge to refute or argue against the 'consciousness only' or the idealistic point-of-view. Suppose that 'consciousness only' and 'materialism only' (consciousness as an emergent property) are both wrong, and that metaphysics and science also are both wrong, and that imagination nor logic can illuminate the problem. Then what? Well, the then what is exactly where we are now. I am not sure I am ever going to know which comes first - consciousness or the brain but my vote is for consciousness. But it can make for some mind bending exercise to try and experience what is the truth; I mean, no one is ever just going to figure it out by thinking about it all. Even Barry gets confused on this, thinking that 'free will' is something other than idealism. Go figure. In the West, you'd have to argue against Immanuel Kant, George Hegel and Arthur Schopenhauer. Not an easy task. In the Upanishads, there are Shankara and his guru Gaudapada to refute and the whole host of Advaitins up to and including Ramana Maharshi. The Kashmiri Swami Laksmanjoo supported the 'Trika' system which takes 'Pure Consciousness' as the Ultimate Reality. Similarly, almost the whole of Zen Buddhism supports the consciousness only metaphysics. Not to mention Naga Arjuna's Madhyamika and the Vijnanavada Tradition of Asanga and Vasabandhu. Consciousness is a characteristic of being alive, having a functioning brain and having a perceiver to perceive what is generated by certain activity of the brain. Consciousness is also present in all forms of life that possess a nervous system. I think it is also much more than this. Excerpt from Mandukya Karika IV by Gaudapada: Duality is only an appearance; non-duality is the real truth. The object exists as an object for the knowing subject; but it does not exist outside of consciousness because the distinction of subject and object is within consciousness. (IV 25-27) Sharma, p. 245-246. I think consciousness is also very much a disembodied phenomenon which can exist outside of a physical body. I believe some consciousness can be generated by a brain but that this consciousness is energy,that also finds its way outside of the physical that comprises a nervous system and is set loose into the surrounding environment, consciousness continues b Excerpt from Mahayana Sutra Lankara by Asanga: Pure consciousness is the only Reality. By its nature, it is Self-luminous. (XIII, 13). Thus shaking off duality, he directly perceives the Absolute which is the unity underlying phenomena (dharmadatu). (VI, 7) Sharma, p. 112-113
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: One thing you've got to say about the TM movement -- it never fails to amuse... :-) And, given the amount of posts and energy the Turq devotes in posting about the TMO, it certainly has made a deep impression on this poor soul - 40 years after he realized he was only in it for the broads and consequently jumped ship he still goes on and on about it. Remarkable ! Suppose, like me, Turq has no soul, is not a soul, but has a certain twisted compassion in that he wants to save idiots from themselves. I say twisted because dealing with spiritual people involves a certain degree of masochism in an unhealthy environment where people are dreaming that by having become spiritual, they now are closer to truth than they were before they started. Or, maybe he is quite fulfilled, and this posting here of his is just a hobby, you know, like having pet mice, putting little rotating wheels in their cages, given them things to chew on etc.
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: One thing you've got to say about the TM movement -- it never fails to amuse... :-) And, given the amount of posts and energy the Turq devotes in posting about the TMO, it certainly has made a deep impression on this poor soul - 40 years after he realized he was only in it for the broads and consequently jumped ship he still goes on and on about it. Remarkable ! Suppose, like me, Turq has no soul, is not a soul, but has a certain twisted compassion in that he wants to save idiots from themselves. I say twisted because dealing with spiritual people involves a certain degree of masochism in an unhealthy environment where people are dreaming that by having become spiritual, they now are closer to truth than they were before they started. Or, maybe he is quite fulfilled, and this posting here of his is just a hobby, you know, like having pet mice, putting little rotating wheels in their cages, given them things to chew on etc. He sure has you trained.
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
Rishi-devata-chhandas... Anything that shows that relationship is consciousness on some level. BTW, Tononi's Integrated Information Theory has exactly the same structure for consciousness, but he calls it different things. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: I was wondering the same thing. Probably not, but the paradox to finding the answer to that question, is that, in order for me to assess such a thing, in the moment, I must have a structure in mind, even if it is only a cloud, or an atom. So, I can answer it in practical terms, and the answer is no. But I will probably never know the answer, absolutely. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, do you think ANY structure is necessary for consciousness? From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:23 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S  Thoughts and consciousness are not the same thing. Consciousness or awareness is fundamental, with thoughts secondary. So for thoughts, yes, you need a brain. But for consciousness, the brain structure isn't necessary. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: (snip) Yup, and it's perfectly natural to find something complex and assume that it must have been created by something more complex. This was Darwins genius as he showed it isn't the case where biology is concerned. But not where human consciousness is concerned. That's a belief. And a strange one. It's also just a belief that biology is responsible for human consciousness. ? Which words did you not understand? I guess it's just a belief that biology is responsible for my heartbeat. Non sequitur. LOL! The heartbeat is a biological thing. And I guess the brain isn't.. You seem to be losing track of the conversation. The brain is biological, like the heartbeat; consciousness may well not be. That's why the notion that consciousness is biological is just a belief, like the notion that it isnT. That's really anything funny you know. To give you a clue: Just try thinking that without a brain. Brains create consciousness, they also create the ability for brains to create and hold models that entirely contradict how brains themselves behave. The Greeks thought that brains were for cooling blood as it went round the body! You can't rely solely on people to work things out philosophically, they believe sorts of weird stuff. You mystical types start from the wrong place. I'm not doing mysticism here. There are very significant thinkers in philosophy and science who are not mystics or believers in God who make the points I'm making. So? So it's possible to think evolution doesn't explain consciousness without being a mystic, which means you can't blame my views on consciousness on my being a mystical type (if I even am). And where they start from is the fact that the biology of evolution doesn't account for human consciousness. You claim to understand evolution but have you considered how an alternative might fit in? An alternative to evolution? Why would that be necessary? Nothing wrong with evolution as it is. Other than that it can't account for human consciousness? Nothing wrong with that. It just means we have to look elsewhere for an understanding of consciousness. Why would we even expect evolution to provide the answers to all questions? That it doesn't isn't a flaw in evolution, it's a flaw in our expectations. PS I know what the hard problem is. I'm sorry to hear that. If you didn't know, there'd be some excuse for your inability to contribute anything thoughtful to this discussion (not necessarily agreement, but at least thoughtful disagreement). You want to win without having to do any work. Win what? You're more than welcome to withdraw
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
Interesting thing I learned recently: some of the people reporting CC also report that ether doesn't shut things down completely -- pure consciousness still remains. And having some level of consciousness during anesthesia isn't all that unusual in non-enlightened people either. Unfortunately, it is waking state that is preserved and horrible, horrible, horrible cases of PTSD can result from being awake during an operation while being unable to scream as the bone saw cuts off your leg. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, I keep coming back to this. It seems to be the most basic truth, the only one we can know absolutely: awareness exists. I think a general anaesthetic is a damn fine way of demonstrating the biological nature of consciousness. Just a little bit of ether and things shut down, taking awareness with it. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:42 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S  I was wondering the same thing. Probably not, but the paradox to finding the answer to that question, is that, in order for me to assess such a thing, in the moment, I must have a structure in mind, even if it is only a cloud, or an atom. So, I can answer it in practical terms, and the answer is no. But I will probably never know the answer, absolutely. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, do you think ANY structure is necessary for consciousness?àFrom: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:23 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S àThoughts and consciousness are not the same thing. Consciousness or awareness is fundamental, with thoughts secondary. So for thoughts, yes, you need a brain. But for consciousness, the brain structure isn't necessary. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: (snip) Yup, and it's perfectly natural to find something complex and assume that it must have been created by something more complex. This was Darwins genius as he showed it isn't the case where biology is concerned. But not where human consciousness is concerned. That's a belief. And a strange one. It's also just a belief that biology is responsible for human consciousness. ? Which words did you not understand? I guess it's just a belief that biology is responsible for my heartbeat. Non sequitur. LOL! The heartbeat is a biological thing. And I guess the brain isn't.. You seem to be losing track of the conversation. The brain is biological, like the heartbeat; consciousness may well not be. That's why the notion that consciousness is biological is just a belief, like the notion that it isnT. That's really anything funny you know. To give you a clue: Just try thinking that without a brain. Brains create consciousness, they also create the ability for brains to create and hold models that entirely contradict how brains themselves behave. The Greeks thought that brains were for cooling blood as it went round the body! You can't rely solely on people to work things out philosophically, they believe sorts of weird stuff. You mystical types start from the wrong place. I'm not doing mysticism here. There are very significant thinkers in philosophy and science who are not mystics or believers in God who make the points I'm making. So? So it's possible to think evolution doesn't explain consciousness without being a mystic, which means you can't blame my views on consciousness on my being a mystical type (if I even am).
[FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S
Actually, the DEfault Mode Network stays more active during periods of relaxed wakefulness than during periods of active wakefulness, and the active wakefulness only requires 5% more metabolic activity than the relaxed consciousness. Sleep likely uses a bit less, but not all that much less. What distinguishes normal sleep is the kind of communication going on in the brain, not how much of it there is. Sleep in non-enlighened people involves very local connections, thought to be a period where the brain cells are resetting themselves. I've been trying to convince Tononi to consider doing his sleep experiments on enlightened folk, as he's written about TM's pure consciousness in at least one of his books, but that hasn't happened yet. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Salyavin wrote: Once you have enough brain cells you have consciousness. Share asks: I've been reading all of today's posts, again with mixed success. Anyway, I'm guessing that I have the same amount of brain cells right now that I had during last night when I was dreaming and also when I was sleeping without dreams. I was pretty conscious during the dreams. I feel very conscious at this moment. But I'm pretty sure I was not conscious during the whole night. So it would seem that even though the number of brain cells remains constant, consciousness, as an experience, does not.    I meant that you need a certain amount to generate consciousness anyway. They stay amount stays the same overnight. But the fact that it gets switched off at night is another interesting evolutionary adaptation. Must take up a lot of energy generating all that bright inner awareness. The brain needs a bit of down time to assimilate the days events and reset itself or we go mad. Really. And then there's keeping us out of trouble in the dark where our primary sense isn't any use. Amazing thing really. I got knocked out and lost my memory once, that was interesting. I'll do a post about it tomorrow as it had a lot of fascinating features for a philosophical chap like me. PS I realize I'm taking little baby steps. It's the best I can do with this topic. Thanks for your patience. BTW, speaking of the hot human brain, scientists have recently theorized that one of the functions of yawning is to cool the brain. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual loading of the kundela creates a spear of thought which pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is certain. Anxiety is a powerful thing. So it seems. The cause of the anxiety was of course a purely mental thing (or a thing in the realm of meaning), and NOT a physical thing. And the anxiety was the effect, not the cause. When I think anxiety I think adrenalin which is physical. The idea of what is frightening is held as a memory or instinct, which is an obvious evolutionary advantage. what to be scared of can also be learned, did you know it only takes two events of any sort before the brain makes a neural link to alert the rest of the system how to behave next time the stimulus is encountered. For instance, if you get nearly run over once the adrenalin dies away and the typical brain will put it down to experience. Twice and you will start to get anxious going near a road. Simple as that, and the funny thing about adrenalin is that when you are pumped up it changes the way you perceive the world, it heightens sound and movement, it changes the way blood flows in the brain so you can't think logically but can only think of running away or fighting. To enable this it drags sugars out of the liver and into the blood and draws blood from the stomach into the muscles. Best of all, any experience you have when in an aroused state gets tagged by the brain as being threatening and will cause a similar reaction if you keep having the same stimulus. This is how neuroses develop, like agoraphobia or social shyness. Anxiety can and does pollute the whole brain, mind system. Your voodoo cult member is primed from childhood to die on command.
