Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
Respond intelligently to what, your comments on the LINK I posted about Soma? You didn't make any, you went on a meaningless ramble about TM translations as though they are different somehow from the ones everyone else reads. Look at the wiki article. Soma is drink made from a plant. Why the hell would Marshy give us a book supporting that if thought something else anyway? You aren't making any sense. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Bit of a problem responding intelligently, eh, Salyavin? Are you for real? You mean, anyone who has read the Ninth Mandala in the translation TM uses will know that's how the Ninth Mandala in that translation describes soma. But they won't necessarily know to what degree that description is symbolic/poetic/metaphorical rather than literal, or even whether the original has been translated accurately (from the ancient Sanskrit to German, then from German to English). Indeed, and why bother? Anyone who has read the 9th Mandala of the Rig Veda will know it's a drink made from plant extracts. Soma (Sanskrit सोम sóma), or Haoma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haoma (Avestan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avestan), from Proto-Indo-Iranian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Iranian *sauma-, was a Vedic ritual drink[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma#cite_note-1 of importance among the early Indo-Iranians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranians, and the subsequent Vedic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_civilization and greater Persian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Iran cultures. It is frequently mentioned in the Rigveda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda, whose Soma Mandala http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma_Mandala contains 114 hymns, many praising its energizing qualities. In the Avesta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avesta, Haoma has the entire Yašt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya%C5%A1t 20 and Yasna http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasna 9-11 dedicated to it. It is described as being prepared by extracting juice from the stalks of a certain plant. In both Vedic and Zoroastrian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrian tradition, the name of the drink and the plant are the same, and also personified as a divinity, the three forming a religious or mythological unity. There has been much speculation concerning what is most likely to have been the identity of the original plant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botanical_identity_of_Soma-Haoma. There is no solid consensus on the question, although some Western experts outside the Vedic and Avestan religious traditions now seem to favour a species of Ephedra http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra_(genus), perhaps Ephedra sinica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra_sinica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma Sounds speedy!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
Nice editing. You are conveniently dishonest when it suits you. I don't get why you find communicating so difficult, as soon as you get on the losing side of an argument you start railing and twisting against irrelevant points that are all perfectly valid in an argument against the ME by claiming you wouldn't have thought that in the first place. It makes no sense unless you just like arguing and attempting to feel superior and/or wounded and long suffering over other peoples perceived stupidity. Sure haven't seen much behaviour like that from you If you're a sceptic too why bother? Try these instead: I've probably read it before anyway but even if I haven't everything I say about it stands: why only 20%? Why can't you see the amazing results when you look at at the actual figures? How does it work? Have we really got to rewrite physics, psychology, sociology and biology just to because of a bit of statistical jiggery-pokery? So why would any crime agency choose yogic flying over something that works better? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Have a go at answering the rest of the points I raised?? You mean, the ones where you put words in my mouth? OK... I can only assume you think I'm not objective because I don't agree with you about it. Wrong. You made that up. As I told you, I'm skeptical myself. But I have excellent reason to think you aren't objective: because you assume, entirely without evidence and entirely mistakenly, that I'm a True Believer in the Maharishi Effect even after I've told you otherwise. If all you can say is that the results would have been better if some nutjob hadn't gone postal with an AK47 then it isn't a great demonstration of Heaven on Earth is it? But I didn't and wouldn't say that or even think it. You made that up. If you want to fall back on the old TM standby of 'It was a bit of unstressing' then you have to accept that the rapes and murders that did happen wouldn't have happened if the TMO weren't there. But I didn't and wouldn't fall back on that old TM standby. You made that up. Since I'm not trying to defend the Maharishi Effect or the DC study, obviously there's no reason for me to respond to your challenges to them (except with regard to your lack of understanding of how the study was designed). The question is, why on earth would you think I should? You're doing a wonderful job of making my points about skeptics' blind spots for me. Thank you. Likewise, your notion that if there was anything to the Maharishi Effect, it should have immediately resulted in a huge decrease in the crime rate is absurd. Why? If it works for some why not everyone. Why does the unified field pick out one rapist to convert and not another? If the meditation intervention did result in only a 20 percent reduction over eight weeks, would it therefore not be worth doing at all? That's just not a sensible objection. But it didn't. Not that I saw looking at the actual crime rates. If it had it might be useful but as I have pointed out quite a lot lately, the crime rate didn't go down anywhere near as much as it did the year later with changes in policing methods etc. So why would any crime agency choose yogic flying over something that works better. Unless you want to go along the standard TM excuse that the effects of the ME are accumulative which the good people of Skelmersdale and Fairfield will tell you isn't actually the case. Have a go at answering the rest of the points I raised. Get objective. As you accuse me of being unobjective I'm not going to bother reading the link you posted. I've thought long and hard about this stuff for years, read all the research (even had a set of the collective papers). I've probably read it before anyway but even if I haven't everything I say about it stands: why only 20%? Why can't you see the amazing results when you look at at the actual figures? How does it work? Have we really got to rewrite physics, psychology, sociology and biology just to because of a bit of statistical jiggery-pokery? I can only assume you think I'm not objective because I don't agree with you about it. I also don't think much of your analysis of Lawson here. If he was objective I doubt he would say that an instance of mass murder skewed the results. They are part of the results, like it or not. And so what if one sceptic doesn't approach it the way I do? You might be forgetting that what we are talking about is an obviously ambiguous set of statistics that supposedly means the world could be made peaceful on the basis of people jumping up and down on bits of foam. Who isn't going to laugh at that? If all you can say is that the results would have been better if some nutjob hadn't gone postal with an AK47 then it isn't a great demonstration of Heaven on Earth is it? You are
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
That's the guy. He did some good thinking on it and offered an explanation of why the rest of the scientific world doesn't take it seriously. The onus is very much on the TMO to prove it or at least explain it so others can get an idea of how it might .work - the feasibility of how it might work even. I think you can always spot a bad theory when it raises more questions than it answers. For every explanation I've heard for the ME I can think of many more things that it throws into confusion and the closer you get to physics the harder it gets to explain. If all this coherence is being passed through some field into other peoples minds, why not everyones? How does the field differentiate between happy thoughts and negative ones? What does human society mean to the fundamental structure of the universe? How come no one has found the unified field? It goes on and on. Everything has to go or be completely rewritten. No one minds doing that if it's incontravertible, think Darwin and Einstein. If I remember correctly it was Markovsky who suggested putting a meditator in a Faraday cage - which is a room isolated from all electromagnetic impulses as well as everything else - and getting people to meditate (or not) outside to see what changes there were (or not). The purpose of this approach is to make sure we aren't affecting each others meditation with pheromones or changes in breathing or even the power of suggestion causing the claimed deeper experiences people have in group meditation. Once you've done that and isolated the effect you can move onto the wider population and see what effect it's having on non-meditators nearby. Then all you've got to do is explain it, but with paranormal research it's data first and lots of it. To stop the TMO accidentally kidding itself and producing flawed research they should hand the whole thing over to James Randi, he offers a million bucks to anyone who can demonstrate paranormal powers. With a force as strong as the unified field it ought to be a breeze! Could get some mighty fine yagya's with that sort of money. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : It was Barry Markovsky! He is now ha ha! at the University of South Carolina! Whoo hoo! Barry Markovsky of the University of Iowa examined the Maharishi Effect theory and commented, “The theory receives low marks for meaningfulness. Key terms are undefined or only roughly characterized using other complex, undefined terms or metaphors.”22 They concluded that the theory’s claims “do not merit being taken seriously by the scientific community. The theory motivating the research is ill-constructed and not compelling in view of prior knowledge; the evidence offered is not impressive and mundane alternative hypotheses offer plausible explanations for the findings.”23 On Thu, 4/3/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 10:05 PM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/3/2014 10:08 AM, Share Long wrote: Theoretically they could even find soma in the blood. Maybe, but after all, the ancient Vedic rishis used to drink the soma but the recipe was lost thousands of years ago and the plant does not grow in India. But, I think the point is that you only have to get high only once - alter your consciousness a single time, and then you KNOW that things are not just as they appear. That, in itself, is a revelation worthy of any religion! Well put. Try some magic mushrooms. Not hard to see how religions got started after a handful of those little chaps. I was laid out in a field for an afternoon watching giant gods made out of clouds drift elegantly over my head, while the ground was alive with life, I could focus in on a single ant or see the whole matrix of complexity in it's entirety. True unfiltered perception. see the world as it is. Maybe, anyway... This is enough to get you going: http://www.noeticscience.co.uk/make-with-the-magic-memory-mushrooms-man/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 8:21 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates Nice editing. You are conveniently dishonest when it suits you. I don't get why you find communicating so difficult, as soon as you get on the losing side of an argument you start railing and twisting against irrelevant points that are all perfectly valid in an argument against the ME by claiming you wouldn't have thought that in the first place. It makes no sense unless you just like arguing and attempting to feel superior and/or wounded and long suffering over other peoples perceived stupidity. Sure haven't seen much behaviour like that from you If you're a sceptic too why bother? 1. Because the point of arguing is simply to argue, not to win. She's going to declare victory anyway. 2. Because she wants to be seen as doing something to defend the idea of the ME while simultaneously claiming not to believe in it. She believes this exempts her from being a cult apologist, even though she consistently takes positions that place her in the position of doing just that -- apologizing for the cult. 3. Because the *real* point of any argument is to find something -- anything -- in what the other person said that she can nitpick about and then use to claim that they are STOOOPID or a LIAR or both. The way she thinks, if she can find even one thing that allows her to do that, she's won. (And interestingly, this actually seems to actually work for the one or two people who still support her, because they're too dumb to notice that she's completely ignored most of the other points or questions raised by the person she's out to demean.) 4. Because she has no choice. She's an argumentation vampire, and has to suck attention almost every day in the form of an argument or she'll burst into flames like those vampires on True Blood who get exposed to the sun. 5. Because someone out there is still WRONG, and it's her holy dharma to get them to admit it and apologize. Try these instead: I've probably read it before anyway but even if I haven't everything I say about it stands: why only 20%? Why can't you see the amazing results when you look at at the actual figures? How does it work? Have we really got to rewrite physics, psychology, sociology and biology just to because of a bit of statistical jiggery-pokery? So why would any crime agency choose yogic flying over something that works better? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Have a go at answering the rest of the points I raised?? You mean, the ones where you put words in my mouth? OK... I can only assume you think I'm not objective because I don't agree with you about it. Wrong. You made that up. As I told you, I'm skeptical myself. But I have excellent reason to think you aren't objective: because you assume, entirely without evidence and entirely mistakenly, that I'm a True Believer in the Maharishi Effect even after I've told you otherwise. If all you can say is that the results would have been better if some nutjob hadn't gone postal with an AK47 then it isn't a great demonstration of Heaven on Earth is it? But I didn't and wouldn't say that or even think it. You made that up. If you want to fall back on the old TM standby of 'It was a bit of unstressing' then you have to accept that the rapes and murders that did happen wouldn't have happened if the TMO weren't there. But I didn't and wouldn't fall back on that old TM standby. You made that up. Since I'm not trying to defend the Maharishi Effect or the DC study, obviously there's no reason for me to respond to your challenges to them (except with regard to your lack of understanding of how the study was designed). The question is, why on earth would you think I should? You're doing a wonderful job of making my points about skeptics' blind spots for me. Thank you. Likewise, your notion that if there was anything to the Maharishi Effect, it should have immediately resulted in a huge decrease in the crime rate is absurd. Why? If it works for some why not everyone. Why does the unified field pick out one rapist to convert and not another? If the meditation intervention did result in only a 20 percent reduction over eight weeks, would it therefore not be worth doing at all? That's just not a sensible objection. But it didn't. Not that I saw looking at the actual crime rates. If it had it might be useful but as I have pointed out quite a lot lately, the crime rate didn't go down anywhere near as much as it did the year later with changes in policing methods etc. So why would any crime agency choose yogic flying over something that works better. Unless you want to go along the standard TM excuse that the effects of the ME are accumulative which the good people of Skelmersdale and
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
That's likely true of all b ut the most clearcut examples of new research programmes. The problem is that the TM organization abandoned attempting to conduct new research on the topic, so we're left with stale research. Any theory can be rescued however, if proponents care to put enough time and energy into reconciling observed data with modifications too the theory, but the TMO never bothred. Shrug. I think that the EEG microstates research, should it show what I suspect it will show, will potentially give new life to the ME theory. We'll see. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : It was Barry Markovsky! He is now ha ha! at the University of South Carolina! Whoo hoo! Barry Markovsky of the University of Iowa examined the Maharishi Effect theory and commented, “The theory receives low marks for meaningfulness. Key terms are undefined or only roughly characterized using other complex, undefined terms or metaphors.”22 They concluded that the theory’s claims “do not merit being taken seriously by the scientific community. The theory motivating the research is ill-constructed and not compelling in view of prior knowledge; the evidence offered is not impressive and mundane alternative hypotheses offer plausible explanations for the findings.”23 On Thu, 4/3/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 10:05 PM ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Who says that the Maharishi Effect converts anyone? Not me, what are you talking about? Oh, I see I convert for evidence that means that you have to prove it before I take it seriously. I haven't seen any worth chucking out my perfectly good world view for. Here is MY understanding of the Maharishi Effect: TM, by its very nature, has a beneficial effect on the practitioners AND on their surroundings. Group TM, by the nature of synergy, has a greater effect than TM practiced outside of groups. Why does something that you also think is a function of brain waves travelling through the thalamus (or whatever the idea was) have something to do with the environment? They don't leave your head you know. Since all of reality is consciousness at its basis, WTF? Prove it. This is wild speculation that no one outside of the new age lecture circuit actually believes. I recommend Stephen Hwkings new book The Grand Design for an accessible intro to current cosmological thinking. Save yourself some time by looking up consciousness in the index. In fact do that in any physics book. all of reality should benefit in some way from TM practice, whether group or non-group. The people who benefit the most, of course, are the participants in the group. Since people in general manifest a more sophisticated level of consciousness than a rock, the rest of Society near the meditation group, being made up of people, should show more of this beneficial effect of group meditation than rocks. Erm... But rocks have to change in some way right? Unified fields and all that...How about dogs they should be easier to test. Serious question: The ME should work on animals too, given their simpler lives they should be easier to study. Since people tend to wander about doing things, one way to measure the beneficial effect from group meditation is to measure what people are doing before, during and after the group meditation period. Since the effect is so slight (they're not participating in the group meditation after all), the effects will only be noticed by doing careful statistical analysis of the behavior of a large group of people. How convenient! And so... the Maharishi Effect research programme proceeds. By my understanding, everyone benefits a tiny little bit. Due to random differences between individuals, some people show this benefit a tiny bit more in their behavior than other people do, just as different meditators take different times to become enlightened. Other than the assumption that there's some effect to measure in the first place, there's no mystery for why the effect supposedly manifests the way it does... how could it manifest any other way? LOL With the caveats you just put on that determinedly hamper all study, how will we ever know? But people have tried. Open minded researchers have suggested studies that would show a relationship between one mind and another at a spooky distance but they were never attempted at MUM. Can't remember the guys name (Barry Markovsky?) from Iowa university. He made a lot of good points about why no one takes the TMO
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
I don't know if Barry ever suggested that (he never mentioned it to me that I remember) but I've been suggestiing variations on that idea for decades. The problem has been that Fred Travis' original research along that line (his PhD thesis actually) used 40 seconds average EEG and that's too coarse a measurement to use when the average EEG starts to approach the maximum anyway. That's where EEG microstate research comes in. If they can establish a pattern found most often during PC,than they can look for statistical variations in that pattern along the lines of what you describe below. Of course, I'd start without the farady cage, and then with, if an effect were found in hte most liberal of circumstances. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : That's the guy. He did some good thinking on it and offered an explanation of why the rest of the scientific world doesn't take it seriously. The onus is very much on the TMO to prove it or at least explain it so others can get an idea of how it might .work - the feasibility of how it might work even. I think you can always spot a bad theory when it raises more questions than it answers. For every explanation I've heard for the ME I can think of many more things that it throws into confusion and the closer you get to physics the harder it gets to explain. If all this coherence is being passed through some field into other peoples minds, why not everyones? How does the field differentiate between happy thoughts and negative ones? What does human society mean to the fundamental structure of the universe? How come no one has found the unified field? It goes on and on. Everything has to go or be completely rewritten. No one minds doing that if it's incontravertible, think Darwin and Einstein. If I remember correctly it was Markovsky who suggested putting a meditator in a Faraday cage - which is a room isolated from all electromagnetic impulses as well as everything else - and getting people to meditate (or not) outside to see what changes there were (or not). The purpose of this approach is to make sure we aren't affecting each others meditation with pheromones or changes in breathing or even the power of suggestion causing the claimed deeper experiences people have in group meditation. Once you've done that and isolated the effect you can move onto the wider population and see what effect it's having on non-meditators nearby. Then all you've got to do is explain it, but with paranormal research it's data first and lots of it. To stop the TMO accidentally kidding itself and producing flawed research they should hand the whole thing over to James Randi, he offers a million bucks to anyone who can demonstrate paranormal powers. With a force as strong as the unified field it ought to be a breeze! Could get some mighty fine yagya's with that sort of money. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : It was Barry Markovsky! He is now ha ha! at the University of South Carolina! Whoo hoo! Barry Markovsky of the University of Iowa examined the Maharishi Effect theory and commented, “The theory receives low marks for meaningfulness. Key terms are undefined or only roughly characterized using other complex, undefined terms or metaphors.”22 They concluded that the theory’s claims “do not merit being taken seriously by the scientific community. The theory motivating the research is ill-constructed and not compelling in view of prior knowledge; the evidence offered is not impressive and mundane alternative hypotheses offer plausible explanations for the findings.”23 On Thu, 4/3/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 10:05 PM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
The point I don't understand, Lawson, is WHY anyone would want to do research to validate or prove something as ludicrous as We can affect other people and the world by bouncing around on our butts on slabs of foam. Please explain to me HOW anyone could develop enough of an attachment to such a dumbfuck idea as to want to prove it. From: lengli...@cox.net lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates I don't know if Barry ever suggested that (he never mentioned it to me that I remember) but I've been suggestiing variations on that idea for decades. The problem has been that Fred Travis' original research along that line (his PhD thesis actually) used 40 seconds average EEG and that's too coarse a measurement to use when the average EEG starts to approach the maximum anyway. That's where EEG microstate research comes in. If they can establish a pattern found most often during PC,than they can look for statistical variations in that pattern along the lines of what you describe below. Of course, I'd start without the farady cage, and then with, if an effect were found in hte most liberal of circumstances. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : That's the guy. He did some good thinking on it and offered an explanation of why the rest of the scientific world doesn't take it seriously. The onus is very much on the TMO to prove it or at least explain it so others can get an idea of how it might .work - the feasibility of how it might work even. I think you can always spot a bad theory when it raises more questions than it answers. For every explanation I've heard for the ME I can think of many more things that it throws into confusion and the closer you get to physics the harder it gets to explain. If all this coherence is being passed through some field into other peoples minds, why not everyones? How does the field differentiate between happy thoughts and negative ones? What does human society mean to the fundamental structure of the universe? How come no one has found the unified field? It goes on and on. Everything has to go or be completely rewritten. No one minds doing that if it's incontravertible, think Darwin and Einstein. If I remember correctly it was Markovsky who suggested putting a meditator in a Faraday cage - which is a room isolated from all electromagnetic impulses as well as everything else - and getting people to meditate (or not) outside to see what changes there were (or not). The purpose of this approach is to make sure we aren't affecting each others meditation with pheromones or changes in breathing or even the power of suggestion causing the claimed deeper experiences people have in group meditation. Once you've done that and isolated the effect you can move onto the wider population and see what effect it's having on non-meditators nearby. Then all you've got to do is explain it, but with paranormal research it's data first and lots of it. To stop the TMO accidentally kidding itself and producing flawed research they should hand the whole thing over to James Randi, he offers a million bucks to anyone who can demonstrate paranormal powers. With a force as strong as the unified field it ought to be a breeze! Could get some mighty fine yagya's with that sort of money. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : It was Barry Markovsky! He is now ha ha! at the University of South Carolina! Whoo hoo! Barry Markovsky of the University of Iowa examined the Maharishi Effect theory and commented, “The theory receives low marks for meaningfulness. Key terms are undefined or only roughly characterized using other complex, undefined terms or metaphors.”22 They concluded that the theory’s claims “do not merit being taken seriously by the scientific community. The theory motivating the research is ill-constructed and not compelling in view of prior knowledge; the evidence offered is not impressive and mundane alternative hypotheses offer plausible explanations for the findings.”23 On Thu, 4/3/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 10:05 PM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : That's likely true of all but the most clearcut examples of new research programmes. The problem is that the TM organization abandoned attempting to conduct new research on the topic, so we're left with stale research That makes me highly suspicious of their own opinion of the quality of the research. Any theory can be rescued however, if proponents care to put enough time and energy into reconciling observed data with modifications too the theory, but the TMO never bothered. You'd think the promise of a new field in physics and the concept that it fundamentally connects with conscious life is something physicists would be flocking to hear. Apparently not, something must be putting them off, whether it's poor research, lack of a supporting theoretical structure or the association of woo-woo yagya's etc. The TMO has got to pull its finger out if it wants to be taken seriously. A case in point: I got a hopeless email this week from them - after yagya donations of course - that had a paragraph about supersymmetry and the connection between the formation of particles at the start of the universe and positivity in human consciousness. Hotmail deleted it permanently otherwise I'd post it here, but they've got to do better than that. Really, it's an abuse of science and John Hagelin knows it, unless he's right and everyone else is wrong about everything and the universe is here solely for us and for our benefit only. Either way someone has a lot of explaining to do. As usual the onus is on the one making wild claims to show that it might even be possible, let alone the practicalities. I think they've given up being taken seriously and keep all this stuff in-house as an advertising ploy. The alternative - that the TM mythos about vedic physiology and quantum consciousness - is too ridiculous to contemplate in light of what we'd have to lose and pretend isn't true scientifically to accommodate it. I'll stick with what actual working physicists and cosmologists come up with as a model until the TMO gets some better ME research together. Shrug. I think that the EEG microstates research, should it show what I suspect it will show, will potentially give new life to the ME theory. Make it so. I'm always on the side of the optimists. Do you mind if I don't hold my breath? We'll see. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : It was Barry Markovsky! He is now ha ha! at the University of South Carolina! Whoo hoo! Barry Markovsky of the University of Iowa examined the Maharishi Effect theory and commented, “The theory receives low marks for meaningfulness. Key terms are undefined or only roughly characterized using other complex, undefined terms or metaphors.”22 They concluded that the theory’s claims “do not merit being taken seriously by the scientific community. The theory motivating the research is ill-constructed and not compelling in view of prior knowledge; the evidence offered is not impressive and mundane alternative hypotheses offer plausible explanations for the findings.”23 On Thu, 4/3/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 10:05 PM
[FairfieldLife] The Path of Ascent
by the Master —, through Benjamin Creme, 4 February 2014 Within each man and woman sits a God, potential as yet but everlasting. As they go through the experiences of what we call life, they make a journey, which in the end turns out to have been a step towards oneness with that God, realizing the fact of its divinity, realizing that it is the Soul, our higher Self. Thus, in time, they turn to meditation and through this practice a great discovery is theirs. Their efforts, they will find, have not been in vain. Whole message here: http://www.share-international.org/magazine/old_issues/2014/2014-03.htm http://www.share-international.org/magazine/old_issues/2014/2014-03.htm
[FairfieldLife] Yoga with Walpurgis 2 - at Anamay Vedic Resort in the Himalaya
Nice pictures and music from Anamay Ashram in the Himalayas run by Purushas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hksO7Nu995s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hksO7Nu995s
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates The point I don't understand, Lawson, is WHY anyone would want to do research to validate or prove something as ludicrous as We can affect other people and the world by bouncing around on our butts on slabs of foam. Please explain to me HOW anyone could develop enough of an attachment to such a dumbfuck idea as to want to prove it. It occurs to me that someone should provide a little history about the TM Sidhis for those who weren't around when they first came out. That is, in the beginning there was NONE of this Maharishi Effect crap or even the *concept* that we were doing it for the world or anything like that. The TMSP was marketed to us True Believers at the time as: 1) a way to master superpowers like levitation, and 2) a way to (supposedly) progress more quickly towards one's *own* enlightenment. In the beginning, during the early courses, reason #1 was the one emphasized in any sales spiels. As the courses progressed and NO ONE ever manifested any siddhis, then they shifted their sales pitch to emphasize #2. By this time I'd given up on the whole thing and bailed from the whole TM movement, and *at no point had anything ever been mentioned about the TMSP benefiting anyone other than the person practicing it*. The whole Maharishi Effect nonsense was invented later, after they had realized that not only the original reason #1 for practicing it was never going to happen, but that #2 wasn't going to ever happen, either. People had spent literally thousands of dollars learning to fly without flying, and had spent similar amounts learning to become enlightened without that ever happening, either. Many people were beginning to quit TM and walk away from the TM movement, *including* many who had learned the TMSP. So what they did was to invent two mechanisms to keep people hanging on, still chasing carrots at the end of the stick. The first was that the TMSP didn't work properly unless you were in a big roomful of people doing it with you. This was supposed to create a herd mentality and cause people to identify with the group, and of course it worked. The second was to invent the made-up Maharishi Effect and pretend that doing the TMSP was somehow benefiting other people, and the world. This worked, too, because it gave people a reason to keep practicing it, plus it made them feel self-important, because they were saving the world. I just thought it was important to remind people of this, because some here like to pretend that the way the TMSP is currently marketed is how it always was. And they like to pretend that the idea of the ME was always present, and always part of the sales pitch. Neither is true.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
Anticipating comments from cult apologist masters disputing this, and claiming that the idea of the Maharishi Effect has been present since 1960, I challenge you to come up with a mention of the Maharishi Effect *per se* in *any* publication before 1978 (the years covered by my account below), and applying to the TMSP *per se*, not just to total numbers of people practicing TM, or the old 1% of the population idea. The earliest mention of any group effect I could find after a few rounds with Google's Advanced News Search page was this article from 1984, and that only mentioned the buzzword in effect at the time, super-radiance effect -- The Maharishi Wants Everybody to Levitate for Peace, but Some Iowans Are Hopping Mad Unless you can find a publication before 1978 with a verifiable date (meaning *not* revised later in an attempt at revisionist history as many of the current TM publications have been) talking about a mass effect caused by the TM-Sidhi program, and in particular using the term Maharishi Effect, I think my point has been made. Which is that the ME is a made-up term that was late to the party, invented *long* after the TMSP had been invented and had already been marketed for other reasons for years. My broader point is that some TM apologists have been so trained to perform revisionist history in their own brains that they'll claim it was present at the beginning of the TMSP program, *even though they themselves weren't*. Besides, the old 1984 People article is pretty funny, given the current state of Fairfield and the fact that the TMO can't find people to bounce around in the domes even when they PAY them to do so... :-) From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates The point I don't understand, Lawson, is WHY anyone would want to do research to validate or prove something as ludicrous as We can affect other people and the world by bouncing around on our butts on slabs of foam. Please explain to me HOW anyone could develop enough of an attachment to such a dumbfuck idea as to want to prove it. It occurs to me that someone should provide a little history about the TM Sidhis for those who weren't around when they first came out. That is, in the beginning there was NONE of this Maharishi Effect crap or even the *concept* that we were doing it for the world or anything like that. The TMSP was marketed to us True Believers at the time as: 1) a way to master superpowers like levitation, and 2) a way to (supposedly) progress more quickly towards one's *own* enlightenment. In the beginning, during the early courses, reason #1 was the one emphasized in any sales spiels. As the courses progressed and NO ONE ever manifested any siddhis, then they shifted their sales pitch to emphasize #2. By this time I'd given up on the whole thing and bailed from the whole TM movement, and *at no point had anything ever been mentioned about the TMSP benefiting anyone other than the person practicing it*. The whole Maharishi Effect nonsense was invented later, after they had realized that not only the original reason #1 for practicing it was never going to happen, but that #2 wasn't going to ever happen, either. People had spent literally thousands of dollars learning to fly without flying, and had spent similar amounts learning to become enlightened without that ever happening, either. Many people were beginning to quit TM and walk away from the TM movement, *including* many who had learned the TMSP. So what they did was to invent two mechanisms to keep people hanging on, still chasing carrots at the end of the stick. The first was that the TMSP didn't work properly unless you were in a big roomful of people doing it with you. This was supposed to create a herd mentality and cause people to identify with the group, and of course it worked. The second was to invent the made-up Maharishi Effect and pretend that doing the TMSP was somehow benefiting other people, and the world. This worked, too, because it gave people a reason to keep practicing it, plus it made them feel self-important, because they were saving the world. I just thought it was important to remind people of this, because some here like to pretend that the way the TMSP is currently marketed is how it always was. And they like to pretend that the idea of the ME was always present, and always part of the sales pitch. Neither is true.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
turq, I think it's part of human nature to want to share with others whatever we have found that enriches life, increases happiness, etc. I think doing research is part of that aspect of human nature. And also an expression of innate human curiosity to better understand ourselves and the world around us. On Friday, April 4, 2014 3:48 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: The point I don't understand, Lawson, is WHY anyone would want to do research to validate or prove something as ludicrous as We can affect other people and the world by bouncing around on our butts on slabs of foam. Please explain to me HOW anyone could develop enough of an attachment to such a dumbfuck idea as to want to prove it. From: lengli...@cox.net lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates I don't know if Barry ever suggested that (he never mentioned it to me that I remember) but I've been suggestiing variations on that idea for decades. The problem has been that Fred Travis' original research along that line (his PhD thesis actually) used 40 seconds average EEG and that's too coarse a measurement to use when the average EEG starts to approach the maximum anyway. That's where EEG microstate research comes in. If they can establish a pattern found most often during PC,than they can look for statistical variations in that pattern along the lines of what you describe below. Of course, I'd start without the farady cage, and then with, if an effect were found in hte most liberal of circumstances. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : That's the guy. He did some good thinking on it and offered an explanation of why the rest of the scientific world doesn't take it seriously. The onus is very much on the TMO to prove it or at least explain it so others can get an idea of how it might .work - the feasibility of how it might work even. I think you can always spot a bad theory when it raises more questions than it answers. For every explanation I've heard for the ME I can think of many more things that it throws into confusion and the closer you get to physics the harder it gets to explain. If all this coherence is being passed through some field into other peoples minds, why not everyones? How does the field differentiate between happy thoughts and negative ones? What does human society mean to the fundamental structure of the universe? How come no one has found the unified field? It goes on and on. Everything has to go or be completely rewritten. No one minds doing that if it's incontravertible, think Darwin and Einstein. If I remember correctly it was Markovsky who suggested putting a meditator in a Faraday cage - which is a room isolated from all electromagnetic impulses as well as everything else - and getting people to meditate (or not) outside to see what changes there were (or not). The purpose of this approach is to make sure we aren't affecting each others meditation with pheromones or changes in breathing or even the power of suggestion causing the claimed deeper experiences people have in group meditation. Once you've done that and isolated the effect you can move onto the wider population and see what effect it's having on non-meditators nearby. Then all you've got to do is explain it, but with paranormal research it's data first and lots of it. To stop the TMO accidentally kidding itself and producing flawed research they should hand the whole thing over to James Randi, he offers a million bucks to anyone who can demonstrate paranormal powers. With a force as strong as the unified field it ought to be a breeze! Could get some mighty fine yagya's with that sort of money. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : It was Barry Markovsky! He is now ha ha! at the University of South Carolina! Whoo hoo! Barry Markovsky of the University of Iowa examined the Maharishi Effect theory and commented, “The theory receives low marks for meaningfulness. Key terms are undefined or only roughly characterized using other complex, undefined terms or metaphors.”22 They concluded that the theory’s claims “do not merit being taken seriously by the scientific community. The theory motivating the research is ill-constructed and not compelling in view of prior knowledge; the evidence offered is not impressive and mundane alternative hypotheses offer plausible explanations for the findings.”23 On Thu, 4/3/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 10:05 PM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
salyavin, is it possible that soma is both? Both something found in plants and in the gut of long term spiritual practitioners? On Friday, April 4, 2014 1:10 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Respond intelligently to what, your comments on the LINK I posted about Soma? You didn't make any, you went on a meaningless ramble about TM translations as though they are different somehow from the ones everyone else reads. Look at the wiki article. Soma is drink made from a plant. Why the hell would Marshy give us a book supporting that if thought something else anyway? You aren't making any sense. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Bit of a problem responding intelligently, eh, Salyavin? Are you for real? You mean, anyone who has read the Ninth Mandala in the translation TM uses will know that's how the Ninth Mandala in that translation describes soma. But they won't necessarily know to what degree that description is symbolic/poetic/metaphorical rather than literal, or even whether the original has been translated accurately (from the ancient Sanskrit to German, then from German to English). Indeed, and why bother? Anyone who has read the 9th Mandala of the Rig Veda will know it's a drink made from plant extracts. Soma (Sanskrit सोम sóma), or Haoma (Avestan), from Proto-Indo-Iranian *sauma-, was a Vedic ritual drink[1] of importance among the early Indo-Iranians, and the subsequent Vedic and greater Persian cultures. It is frequently mentioned in the Rigveda, whose Soma Mandala contains 114 hymns, many praising its energizing qualities. In the Avesta, Haoma has the entire Yašt 20 and Yasna 9-11 dedicated to it. It is described as being prepared by extracting juice from the stalks of a certain plant. In both Vedic and Zoroastrian tradition, the name of the drink and the plant are the same, and also personified as a divinity, the three forming a religious or mythological unity. There has been much speculation concerning what is most likely to have been the identity of the original plant. There is no solid consensus on the question, although some Western experts outside the Vedic and Avestan religious traditions now seem to favour a species of Ephedra, perhaps Ephedra sinica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma Sounds speedy!
Re: [FairfieldLife] The Path of Ascent
Thank you, Nablusoss, I find the tone of this very beautiful, very nourishing for my soul. I think we're all fortunate to be living in such amazing times. OTOH, maybe all humans in all ages think that (-: On Friday, April 4, 2014 4:09 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: by the Master —, through Benjamin Creme,4 February 2014 Within each man and woman sits a God, potential as yet but everlasting. As they go through the experiences of what we call life, they make a journey, which in the end turns out to have been a step towards oneness with that God, realizing the fact of its divinity, realizing that it is the Soul, our higher Self. Thus, in time, they turn to meditation and through this practice a great discovery is theirs. Their efforts, they will find, have not been in vain. Whole message here: http://www.share-international.org/magazine/old_issues/2014/2014-03.htm
Re: [FairfieldLife] Yoga with Walpurgis 2 - at Anamay Vedic Resort in the Himalaya
how can it be run by purushas if there are woman there? Oh, I forgot, they are following in Marshy's footsteps, claiming celibacy but then...? On Fri, 4/4/14, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Yoga with Walpurgis 2 - at Anamay Vedic Resort in the Himalaya To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 9:24 AM Nice pictures and music from Anamay Ashram in the Himalayas run by Purushas.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hksO7Nu995s
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
I think I'll go over the the university and shake Professor Markovsky's hand for his mighty fine erudite analysis of the Marshy Effect. On Fri, 4/4/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 6:41 AM That's the guy. He did some good thinking on it and offered an explanation of why the rest of the scientific world doesn't take it seriously. The onus is very much on the TMO to prove it or at least explain it so others can get an idea of how it might .work - the feasibility of how it might work even. I think you can always spot a bad theory when it raises more questions than it answers. For every explanation I've heard for the ME I can think of many more things that it throws into confusion and the closer you get to physics the harder it gets to explain. If all this coherence is being passed through some field into other peoples minds, why not everyones? How does the field differentiate between happy thoughts and negative ones? What does human society mean to the fundamental structure of the universe? How come no one has found the unified field? It goes on and on. Everything has to go or be completely rewritten. No one minds doing that if it's incontravertible, think Darwin and Einstein. If I remember correctly it was Markovsky who suggested putting a meditator in a Faraday cage - which is a room isolated from all electromagnetic impulses as well as everything else - and getting people to meditate (or not) outside to see what changes there were (or not). The purpose of this approach is to make sure we aren't affecting each others meditation with pheromones or changes in breathing or even the power of suggestion causing the claimed deeper experiences people have in group meditation. Once you've done that and isolated the effect you can move onto the wider population and see what effect it's having on non-meditators nearby. Then all you've got to do is explain it, but with paranormal research it's data first and lots of it. To stop the TMO accidentally kidding itself and producing flawed research they should hand the whole thing over to James Randi, he offers a million bucks to anyone who can demonstrate paranormal powers. With a force as strong as the unified field it ought to be a breeze! Could get some mighty fine yagya's with that sort of money. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : It was Barry Markovsky! He is now ha ha! at the University of South Carolina! Whoo hoo! Barry Markovsky of the University of Iowa examined the Maharishi Effect theory and commented, “The theory receives low marks for meaningfulness. Key terms are undefined or only roughly characterized using other complex, undefined terms or metaphors.”22 They concluded that the theory’s claims “do not merit being taken seriously by the scientific community. The theory motivating the research is ill-constructed and not compelling in view of prior knowledge; the evidence offered is not impressive and mundane alternative hypotheses offer plausible explanations for the findings.”23 On Thu, 4/3/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 10:05 PM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
Steve, I didn't know that about Communion, that some people think of it as cannabalism. I can see how they might think that. As for me, I've never been comfortable having some of the wine, which is allegedly become the blood of Christ. Maybe the early Christians morphed what Jesus did at the Last Supper to something more similar to what the pagans were doing. Similar to how they stole some of the pagan holidays. What I look forward to is when the huge field of neuroscience, psychoneuroendocrinology, etc. can provide some plausible explanations for some of our so called spiritual experiences. I mean, is the love of a mother for her newborn simply a chemical event precipitated by a huge increase in oxytocin?! On Thursday, April 3, 2014 4:39 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote: You know Share, some people compare it to cannibalism. I don't. I don't see anything wrong with it. As rituals go, it seems as good a one as any. I don't know if it was corrupted along the way somehow. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, but supposedly that's the way it played out at that Passover Supper. Not that it matters, but I think the new Pope is quite a breath of fresh air. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, one of the meta issues that fascinates me about all this is how in Catholicism we supposedly ingest the body and blood of Christ. What it suggests to me is something that the mythologist Joseph Campbell might notice, that in all cultures around the world, there's some notion of ingesting the other when it comes to humans and divinities. Must be something physically in the human brain about that. Does that sound far out? On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 10:50 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas, about the Vedic Gods. But I don't. There are some who think it is all a bunch of jibberish. I think Barry may be in this camp, and I hope I am not misrepresenting him. But I do generally have respect for ancient traditions. And I think most traditions have a more superficial aspect and a deeper, hidden aspect. I think the teachings of Jesus show this as well. What you relate about Maharishi's comments about Soma being produced in the gut, and God's feasting on it, doesn't really strike me as that strange. I think it's probably standard stuff in some schools of Hinduism. But do you really think they needed this to try to make a case of Hindu roots for TM? I mean the Puja could probably make that case. And that is hardly hidden. And I guess you could parse whether the Mantras have meaning or meaningless, but for whatever reason, and in some way, the technique has worked for many people, and still works for people who are just now learning it. And I believe at some point early in the movement it was discussed whether to bring it out as a religious practice, or a scientific one. Obviously the scientific approach won out. But of course the Hindu, or religious overtones are there. On the other hand, so what. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Somehow in my looking at TM, I have always missed this - any of you guys ever see this tape? If so what did you think of it? Soma and the Gods On the next Web page begins the transcription of Soma and the Gods taken from testimony in the Kropinski trial. This videotape is one of a handful that have become infamous in the TM movement because of their secrecy: It is only shown to TM teachers on the heavily regimented Teacher Training Course (TTC). For many years copies of this tape were not even allowed to enter the continental US. For good reason! Much like the Church of Scientology's OT materials, Soma and the Gods lays out the Maharishi's freakish theology in a way that the public is not deemed ready for by the Maharishi and the movement. According to participants in the Kropinski trial, this tape -- along with the entire TTC catalog -- appeared mysteriously on someone's doorstep one day. Since then the tape has been used by plaintiffs in court cases to prove that the TM movement had a religious, specifically Hindu, agenda -- largely because it's one of the few times the Maharishi was captured on tape talking about worshipping the Vedic Gods. (Of course today, the TM movement sells Hindu sacrifices, yagyas or yajnas, to Ganesh, Lakshmi, and other Gods for thousands of dollars without batting an eye!) But the true significance of Soma and the Gods is much larger. And the theology that the Maharishi espouses is not Hinduism. It is much more idiosyncratic -- and frankly bizarre. In a nutshell, the Maharishi describes a sort of parasitic relationship between TMers and the Vedic Gods. TMers produce the magical chemical Soma in their gut -- but it isn't something they can use directly. The Vedic Gods, principally Indra, descend from Heaven and feed
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates turq, I think it's part of human nature to want to share with others whatever we have found that enriches life, increases happiness, etc. I think doing research is part of that aspect of human nature. And also an expression of innate human curiosity to better understand ourselves and the world around us. While sharing *can* be a motivation, I think that with many people who have turned evangelizing TM into almost a full-time occupation that there may be other factors at work as well. Such as trying to maintain one's *own* will to believe by convincing others to believe the same thing they do. Or such as trying to prove oneself superior to others because of course youknow how things really work and the ones you're preaching to don't. In the case of the TM researchers themselves -- almost ALL of whom are or were Maharishi devotees -- I think a factor that needs to be considered is that doing research on TM and getting it published was one of the ONLY ways they could get the personal attention of the guy they considered their master, Maharishi himself. The only other way you could do that was by being rich and giving him a lot of money, or by being famous and allowing him to use your name to make more money. I had a couple of these TM researchers back in the late 1960s and early 1970s admit to me that they changed their majors *so that* they could do exactly this and get closer to Maharishi. One said, I'm in it for the darshan. This strikes me as an attitude that might tempt them to skew or fake results, because only good findings would result in a pat on the back from Maharishi. I notice, however, that you completely missed the real point of my original comment. The very IDEA that bouncing around on one's butt can affect world peace, the weather, and crime rates is *INSANE*. It's laughable. If you hadn't already been indoctrinated by so many years of having accepted so many other absurd ideas when you first heard this, you would have laughed at it, too. On Friday, April 4, 2014 3:48 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: The point I don't understand, Lawson, is WHY anyone would want to do research to validate or prove something as ludicrous as We can affect other people and the world by bouncing around on our butts on slabs of foam. Please explain to me HOW anyone could develop enough of an attachment to such a dumbfuck idea as to want to prove it. From: lengli...@cox.net lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates I don't know if Barry ever suggested that (he never mentioned it to me that I remember) but I've been suggestiing variations on that idea for decades. The problem has been that Fred Travis' original research along that line (his PhD thesis actually) used 40 seconds average EEG and that's too coarse a measurement to use when the average EEG starts to approach the maximum anyway. That's where EEG microstate research comes in. If they can establish a pattern found most often during PC,than they can look for statistical variations in that pattern along the lines of what you describe below. Of course, I'd start without the farady cage, and then with, if an effect were found in hte most liberal of circumstances. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : That's the guy. He did some good thinking on it and offered an explanation of why the rest of the scientific world doesn't take it seriously. The onus is very much on the TMO to prove it or at least explain it so others can get an idea of how it might .work - the feasibility of how it might work even. I think you can always spot a bad theory when it raises more questions than it answers. For every explanation I've heard for the ME I can think of many more things that it throws into confusion and the closer you get to physics the harder it gets to explain. If all this coherence is being passed through some field into other peoples minds, why not everyones? How does the field differentiate between happy thoughts and negative ones? What does human society mean to the fundamental structure of the universe? How come no one has found the unified field? It goes on and on. Everything has to go or be completely rewritten. No one minds doing that if it's incontravertible, think Darwin and Einstein. If I remember correctly it was Markovsky who suggested putting a meditator in a Faraday cage - which is a room isolated from all electromagnetic impulses as well as everything else - and getting people to meditate (or not) outside to see what changes there
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
Those are excellent points. The ME is the reason behind the yagya program as well, as supposedly the effect of yagya enhances or is similar to ME so that world peace can be achieved by yagya (ignoring that fact that India itself is a rather rough place to live for most of its population even tho one can supposedly give a few rupees to a priest to do yagya for you and get you all the stuff you want from the gods) - So create the non-existent ME and it proves to be useful to create other money generating enterprises as well. It occurs to me that someone should provide a little history about the TM Sidhis for those who weren't around when they first came out. That is, in the beginning there was NONE of this Maharishi Effect crap or even the *concept* that we were doing it for the world or anything like that. The TMSP was marketed to us True Believers at the time as: 1) a way to master superpowers like levitation, and 2) a way to (supposedly) progress more quickly towards one's *own* enlightenment. In the beginning, during the early courses, reason #1 was the one emphasized in any sales spiels. As the courses progressed and NO ONE ever manifested any siddhis, then they shifted their sales pitch to emphasize #2. By this time I'd given up on the whole thing and bailed from the whole TM movement, and *at no point had anything ever been mentioned about the TMSP benefiting anyone other than the person practicing it*. The whole Maharishi Effect nonsense was invented later, after they had realized that not only the original reason #1 for practicing it was never going to happen, but that #2 wasn't going to ever happen, either. People had spent literally thousands of dollars learning to fly without flying, and had spent similar amounts learning to become enlightened without that ever happening, either. Many people were beginning to quit TM and walk away from the TM movement, *including* many who had learned the TMSP. So what they did was to invent two mechanisms to keep people hanging on, still chasing carrots at the end of the stick. The first was that the TMSP didn't work properly unless you were in a big roomful of people doing it with you. This was supposed to create a herd mentality and cause people to identify with the group, and of course it worked. The second was to invent the made-up Maharishi Effect and pretend that doing the TMSP was somehow benefiting other people, and the world. This worked, too, because it gave people a reason to keep practicing it, plus it made them feel self-important, because they were saving the world. I just thought it was important to remind people of this, because some here like to pretend that the way the TMSP is currently marketed is how it always was. And they like to pretend that the idea of the ME was always present, and always part of the sales pitch. Neither is true.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
turq, the physics of it makes sense to me. That's all. And even this morning I received a newsletter from a non TM group explaining how changing 1% of a system improved the whole kit and caboodle. On Friday, April 4, 2014 7:08 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates turq, I think it's part of human nature to want to share with others whatever we have found that enriches life, increases happiness, etc. I think doing research is part of that aspect of human nature. And also an expression of innate human curiosity to better understand ourselves and the world around us. While sharing *can* be a motivation, I think that with many people who have turned evangelizing TM into almost a full-time occupation that there may be other factors at work as well. Such as trying to maintain one's *own* will to believe by convincing others to believe the same thing they do. Or such as trying to prove oneself superior to others because of course youknow how things really work and the ones you're preaching to don't. In the case of the TM researchers themselves -- almost ALL of whom are or were Maharishi devotees -- I think a factor that needs to be considered is that doing research on TM and getting it published was one of the ONLY ways they could get the personal attention of the guy they considered their master, Maharishi himself. The only other way you could do that was by being rich and giving him a lot of money, or by being famous and allowing him to use your name to make more money. I had a couple of these TM researchers back in the late 1960s and early 1970s admit to me that they changed their majors *so that* they could do exactly this and get closer to Maharishi. One said, I'm in it for the darshan. This strikes me as an attitude that might tempt them to skew or fake results, because only good findings would result in a pat on the back from Maharishi. I notice, however, that you completely missed the real point of my original comment. The very IDEA that bouncing around on one's butt can affect world peace, the weather, and crime rates is *INSANE*. It's laughable. If you hadn't already been indoctrinated by so many years of having accepted so many other absurd ideas when you first heard this, you would have laughed at it, too. On Friday, April 4, 2014 3:48 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: The point I don't understand, Lawson, is WHY anyone would want to do research to validate or prove something as ludicrous as We can affect other people and the world by bouncing around on our butts on slabs of foam. Please explain to me HOW anyone could develop enough of an attachment to such a dumbfuck idea as to want to prove it. From: lengli...@cox.net lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates I don't know if Barry ever suggested that (he never mentioned it to me that I remember) but I've been suggestiing variations on that idea for decades. The problem has been that Fred Travis' original research along that line (his PhD thesis actually) used 40 seconds average EEG and that's too coarse a measurement to use when the average EEG starts to approach the maximum anyway. That's where EEG microstate research comes in. If they can establish a pattern found most often during PC,than they can look for statistical variations in that pattern along the lines of what you describe below. Of course, I'd start without the farady cage, and then with, if an effect were found in hte most liberal of circumstances. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : That's the guy. He did some good thinking on it and offered an explanation of why the rest of the scientific world doesn't take it seriously. The onus is very much on the TMO to prove it or at least explain it so others can get an idea of how it might .work - the feasibility of how it might work even. I think you can always spot a bad theory when it raises more questions than it answers. For every explanation I've heard for the ME I can think of many more things that it throws into confusion and the closer you get to physics the harder it gets to explain. If all this coherence is being passed through some field into other peoples minds, why not everyones? How does the field differentiate between happy thoughts and negative ones? What does human society mean to the fundamental structure of the universe? How come no one has found the unified field? It goes on and on. Everything has to go or be completely rewritten. No one minds doing that if it's incontravertible, think
Re: [FairfieldLife] [Fairfield] Logically Preparing
No, they just want to winter down there, away from the cold. Rory has quite a passion for the fossilized shark teeth that can be found there. They're keeping the house in Fairfield. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote : Rory is quitting, Fairfield?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
I couldn't begin to calculate the chances of a coincidence like that Share! The 9th mandala is about a drink made from plants, and it must have been a good one considering how much they go on about it. The idea of good digestion giving you good spiritual experiences is a given though, just not sure about the gods eating it. Gives me the creeps that bitno wonder they banned the video. But the same thing? You'd have to find both and see. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, is it possible that soma is both? Both something found in plants and in the gut of long term spiritual practitioners? On Friday, April 4, 2014 1:10 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Respond intelligently to what, your comments on the LINK I posted about Soma? You didn't make any, you went on a meaningless ramble about TM translations as though they are different somehow from the ones everyone else reads. Look at the wiki article. Soma is drink made from a plant. Why the hell would Marshy give us a book supporting that if thought something else anyway? You aren't making any sense. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Bit of a problem responding intelligently, eh, Salyavin? Are you for real? You mean, anyone who has read the Ninth Mandala in the translation TM uses will know that's how the Ninth Mandala in that translation describes soma. But they won't necessarily know to what degree that description is symbolic/poetic/metaphorical rather than literal, or even whether the original has been translated accurately (from the ancient Sanskrit to German, then from German to English). Indeed, and why bother? Anyone who has read the 9th Mandala of the Rig Veda will know it's a drink made from plant extracts. Soma (Sanskrit सोम sóma), or Haoma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haoma (Avestan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avestan), from Proto-Indo-Iranian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Iranian; title=Proto-Indo-Iranian style=color:rgb(11, 0, 128); *sauma-, was a Vedic ritual drink[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma#cite_note-1 of importance among the early Indo-Iranians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranians, and the subsequent Vedic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_civilization; title=Vedic civilization style=color:rgb(11, 0, 128); and greater Persian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Iran cultures. It is frequently mentioned in the Rigveda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda, whose Soma Mandala http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma_Mandala contains 114 hymns, many praising its energizing qualities. In the Avesta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avesta, Haoma has the entire Yašt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya%C5%A1t 20 and Yasna http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasna 9-11 dedicated to it. It is described as being prepared by extracting juice from the stalks of a certain plant. In both Vedic and Zoroastrian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrian tradition, the name of the drink and the plant are the same, and also personified as a divinity, the three forming a religious or mythological unity. There has been much speculation concerning what is most likely to have been the identity of the original plant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botanical_identity_of_Soma-Haoma. There is no solid consensus on the question, although some Western experts outside the Vedic and Avestan religious traditions now seem to favour a species of Ephedra http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra_(genus), perhaps Ephedra sinica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra_sinica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma Sounds speedy!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
Share, I think you can find all manner of opinions about communion. I just mentioned that as one comment I once heard. As rituals go,it seems okay to me. Is it hurting anyone? Not that I can see. Does it bring people some measure of comfort, or spiritual upliftment? It seems to. There was a theoophist, C.W. Leadbetter, (yes, the same one MJ regularly castigates), who said that the whole ritual leading up to the communion involves angels creating a sort of celestial altar culminating in the actual communion. So, there's a comment on the other end of the spectrum. My wife and kids regularly get communion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, I didn't know that about Communion, that some people think of it as cannabalism. I can see how they might think that. As for me, I've never been comfortable having some of the wine, which is allegedly become the blood of Christ. Maybe the early Christians morphed what Jesus did at the Last Supper to something more similar to what the pagans were doing. Similar to how they stole some of the pagan holidays. What I look forward to is when the huge field of neuroscience, psychoneuroendocrinology, etc. can provide some plausible explanations for some of our so called spiritual experiences. I mean, is the love of a mother for her newborn simply a chemical event precipitated by a huge increase in oxytocin?! On Thursday, April 3, 2014 4:39 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Share, some people compare it to cannibalism. I don't. I don't see anything wrong with it. As rituals go, it seems as good a one as any. I don't know if it was corrupted along the way somehow. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, but supposedly that's the way it played out at that Passover Supper. Not that it matters, but I think the new Pope is quite a breath of fresh air. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, one of the meta issues that fascinates me about all this is how in Catholicism we supposedly ingest the body and blood of Christ. What it suggests to me is something that the mythologist Joseph Campbell might notice, that in all cultures around the world, there's some notion of ingesting the other when it comes to humans and divinities. Must be something physically in the human brain about that. Does that sound far out? On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 10:50 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas, about the Vedic Gods. But I don't. There are some who think it is all a bunch of jibberish. I think Barry may be in this camp, and I hope I am not misrepresenting him. But I do generally have respect for ancient traditions. And I think most traditions have a more superficial aspect and a deeper, hidden aspect. I think the teachings of Jesus show this as well. What you relate about Maharishi's comments about Soma being produced in the gut, and God's feasting on it, doesn't really strike me as that strange. I think it's probably standard stuff in some schools of Hinduism. But do you really think they needed this to try to make a case of Hindu roots for TM? I mean the Puja could probably make that case. And that is hardly hidden. And I guess you could parse whether the Mantras have meaning or meaningless, but for whatever reason, and in some way, the technique has worked for many people, and still works for people who are just now learning it. And I believe at some point early in the movement it was discussed whether to bring it out as a religious practice, or a scientific one. Obviously the scientific approach won out. But of course the Hindu, or religious overtones are there. On the other hand, so what. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Somehow in my looking at TM, I have always missed this - any of you guys ever see this tape? If so what did you think of it? Soma and the Gods On the next Web page begins the transcription of Soma and the Gods taken from testimony in the Kropinski trial. This videotape is one of a handful that have become infamous in the TM movement because of their secrecy: It is only shown to TM teachers on the heavily regimented Teacher Training Course (TTC). For many years copies of this tape were not even allowed to enter the continental US. For good reason! Much like the Church of Scientology's OT materials, Soma and the Gods lays out the Maharishi's freakish theology in a way that the public is not deemed ready for by the Maharishi and the movement. According to participants in the Kropinski trial, this tape -- along with the entire TTC catalog -- appeared mysteriously on someone's doorstep one day. Since then the tape has been used by plaintiffs in court cases to prove that the TM movement had a religious, specifically Hindu, agenda -- largely because
Re: [FairfieldLife] [Fairfield] Logically Preparing
From: j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] [Fairfield] Logically Preparing No, they just want to winter down there, away from the cold. Rory has quite a passion for the fossilized shark teeth that can be found there. They're keeping the house in Fairfield. OMG, I can see it now. Fossilized Shark Tooth Necklaces will become the next Big Thing around Fairfield, replacing rudraksha beads. :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote : Rory is quitting, Fairfield?
Re: [FairfieldLife] [Fairfield] Logically Preparing
“We are a group of people who have come together and created a community for a transcendentally important common purpose, which of course is to practice the Transcendental Meditation program and the TM-Sidhi program together as a group, for the sake of bringing coherence to national and world consciousness based on balancing labor and leisure to meditate while working together for the benefit of the community. Our Super-Radiance meditating community includes families of all the TM-Meditators and TM-Sidhas in the Fairfield, Vedic City and Jefferson County area.” 7thRay writes: Buck, I think you should have received a standing ovation on that glorious day when you were readmitted to the Dome. I know I felt a sense of pride. It was as if one of our own was readmitted. (-: Rory is quitting, Fairfield? That is a shame, that he is leaving and to lose him. Meditators; it's been a long time, it's been a sacrifice at times to have been here. You've came bravely, proudly. You're a special group. You've found in one another a bond that exists possibly only in banana-gram, among brothers. You've shared community, held each other in dire moments. You've seen friends in their death here and we have all suffered together at times to be here. I'm proud to have meditated with each and every one of you. You all who came and joined the Fairfield, Iowa group meditation deserve long and happy lives in peace. -Buck in the Dome nablusoss1008 writes: Rory is leaving Fairfield to live in Florida, and perhaps also the Pundits are leaving. The Americans better start going to the Domes asap to avert the danger that has not yet come. noozguru writes: Yeah, welcome to the mid-west, home of killer tornadoes. Trade one disaster for another. Chances of survival with an earthquake are much higher than those of surviving a tornado. I certainly feel that as meditators you should all move to Fairfield, Iowa forthwith. Avert the danger before it comes. The Domes being geodesic structures are some of the best to withstand global changes of the scale evidently lining up. Maharishi consulted a lot with none other than Buckminister Fuller before building the Fairfield Domes. I thank the Unified Field that Bevan and everyone settled on these timber framed Golden Domes when they went looking for some domes for us “to meditate under”, as Maharishi sent them looking. Jai Guru Dev, -Buck in the Dome noozguru asserts: Major quakes tend to occur by frequency. http://www.earthquakesafety.com/earthquake-history.html http://www.earthquakesafety.com/earthquake-history.html jr_esq mailto:jr_esq@... writes: Little shakers may be a relative term. When the Loma Prieta earthquake happened in October 1989, my dad saw the walls of the house shake for about a minute or so. Luckily, he was safe and the house was not damaged. At that time, I was still living in Seattle and was watching the World Series when the programming was interrupted due to the shaker. But I was in Seattle during the big earthquake over there in 2001 (I think that was the year, as I recall). I remember our office building was swaying back and forth and we were at the 32nd floor. I hid underneath my desk. Thankfully, our building did not sustain any damages, except for a few streaks if cracked paint in the emergency stair well. However, an old red brick building at the Pioneer Square sustained some damages. noozguru mailto:noozguru@... writes: I've been sayin' it might be another 20-25 years before a big one here as the faults have settled for awhile. So all we will get is a few little shakers. On 04/02/2014 12:22 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... wrote: The seismologists over have been predicting for the next BIG ONE, for several years now, here in San Francisco, CA. But it hasn't happened yet. Now, I'm thinking of buying a piece of land near Austin, Nevada as a hedge just in case this prediction comes true, sooner or later. I was thinking that earlier in the week with all the quakes and mudslides going on. My sister lives near Frisco, she hates earthquakes, I point out that it's a stupid place to live in that case, she says she likes the vineyards and beaches too much to move.. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote : noozguru mailto:noozguru@...: Okay then, is the Ring of Fire becoming active? There was an 8.2 quake off Chile and Yellowstone is beginning to have swarms (all bets are off if that turns into a volcano). Better be practicing asanas so you can kiss your ass good-bye. Pundit Sir wrote: I guess you don't have a video camera or we'd have seen videos from you. Addressing the important issues! I guess you don't have a video camera or we'd have seen videos from you. My channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/CaptBebops
Re: [FairfieldLife] The Path of Ascent
Very nice Share, you caught the essence of the message. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Thank you, Nablusoss, I find the tone of this very beautiful, very nourishing for my soul. I think we're all fortunate to be living in such amazing times. OTOH, maybe all humans in all ages think that (-: On Friday, April 4, 2014 4:09 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: by the Master —, through Benjamin Creme, 4 February 2014 Within each man and woman sits a God, potential as yet but everlasting. As they go through the experiences of what we call life, they make a journey, which in the end turns out to have been a step towards oneness with that God, realizing the fact of its divinity, realizing that it is the Soul, our higher Self. Thus, in time, they turn to meditation and through this practice a great discovery is theirs. Their efforts, they will find, have not been in vain. Whole message here: http://www.share-international.org/magazine/old_issues/2014/2014-03.htm http://www.share-international.org/magazine/old_issues/2014/2014-03.htm
Re: [FairfieldLife] [Fairfield] Logically Preparing
Probably more Giant Gellyfish there as well ! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, j_alexander_stanley@... wrote : No, they just want to winter down there, away from the cold. Rory has quite a passion for the fossilized shark teeth that can be found there. They're keeping the house in Fairfield. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Rory is quitting, Fairfield?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
I have never seen that article before - give great historical perspective - especially the comment that they expected several thousand sidha permanently in Fairfield - guess they got that one wrong - also love the comment about Marshy's stretch limo. On Fri, 4/4/14, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 10:25 AM Anticipating comments from cult apologist masters disputing this, and claiming that the idea of the Maharishi Effect has been present since 1960, I challenge you to come up with a mention of the Maharishi Effect *per se* in *any* publication before 1978 (the years covered by my account below), and applying to the TMSP *per se*, not just to total numbers of people practicing TM, or the old 1% of the population idea. The earliest mention of any group effect I could find after a few rounds with Google's Advanced News Search page was this article from 1984, and that only mentioned the buzzword in effect at the time, super-radiance effect -- The Maharishi Wants Everybody to Levitate for Peace, but Some Iowans Are Hopping Mad Unless you can find a publication before 1978 with a verifiable date (meaning *not* revised later in an attempt at revisionist history as many of the current TM publications have been) talking about a mass effect caused by the TM-Sidhi program, and in particular using the term Maharishi Effect, I think my point has been made. Which is that the ME is a made-up term that was late to the party, invented *long* after the TMSP had been invented and had already been marketed for other reasons for years. My broader point is that some TM apologists have been so trained to perform revisionist history in their own brains that they'll claim it was present at the beginning of the TMSP program, *even though they themselves weren't*. Besides, the old 1984 People article is pretty funny, given the current state of Fairfield and the fact that the TMO can't find people to bounce around in the domes even when they PAY them to do so... :-) From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates The point I don't understand, Lawson, is WHY anyone would want to do research to validate or prove something as ludicrous as We can affect other people and the world by bouncing around on our butts on slabs of foam. Please explain to me HOW anyone could develop enough of an attachment to such a dumbfuck idea as to want to prove it. It occurs to me that someone should provide a little history about the TM Sidhis for those who weren't around when they first came out. That is, in the beginning there was NONE of this Maharishi Effect crap or even the *concept* that we were doing it for the world or anything like that. The TMSP was marketed to us True Believers at the time as: 1) a way to master superpowers like levitation, and 2) a way to (supposedly) progress more quickly towards one's *own* enlightenment. In the beginning, during the early courses, reason #1 was the one emphasized in any sales spiels. As the courses progressed and NO ONE ever manifested any siddhis, then they shifted their sales pitch to emphasize #2. By this time I'd given up on the whole thing and bailed from the whole TM movement, and *at no point had anything ever been mentioned about the TMSP benefiting anyone other than the person practicing it*. The whole Maharishi Effect nonsense was invented later, after they had realized that not only the original reason #1 for practicing it was never going to happen, but that #2 wasn't going to ever happen, either. People had spent literally thousands of dollars learning to fly without flying, and had spent similar amounts learning to become enlightened without that ever happening, either. Many people were beginning to quit TM and walk away from the TM movement, *including* many who had learned the TMSP. So what they did was to invent two mechanisms to keep people hanging on, still chasing carrots at the end of the stick. The first was that the TMSP didn't work properly unless you were in a big roomful of people doing it with you. This was supposed
[FairfieldLife] Re: Yoga with Walpurgis 2 - at Anamay Vedic Resort in the Himalaya
The Purushas at Anamay Ashram are no longer part of the official programme and are free to do what they want. Urs Stroebel, the founder, simply followed Maharishi's onetime wish to have a Pundit Programme at that spot called the Switzerland of India and started the school and now: The Anamay Vedic Resort. He is now an Indian national BTW. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Nice pictures and music from Anamay Ashram in the Himalayas run by Purushas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hksO7Nu995s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hksO7Nu995s
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
I don't nor have I ever castigated CW Leadbeater - I merely reported what has been written about him - by all accounts he had a fondness for sexual encounters with teenage boys, an activity that he indulged in and made into some sort of spiritual mumbo jumbo. As a result he was kicked out of the original Theosophical Society, later being re-instated by Alice Bailey I think after Blavatsky was dead - a snippit of info here on good ol' CW since you seem to be fond of him: At the height of Leadbeater’s renown, however, serious moral charges were brought against him. As Nevill Drury and Gregory Tillett explain in their authoritative study of the occult in Australia, “the police undertook an investigation into Leadbeater and his relationships with his pupils, although Leadbeater himself would not be interviewed. The official conclusions of the enquiry were that there was no evidence to sustain any charge, however the officers undertaking the investigation were satisfied Leadbeater did have a sexual relationship with at least some of his young male pupils, although he denied this. He did not deny habitually sleeping with his pupils, or sharing his bath with them. The precise details of Leadbeater’s sexual relationship with his pupils, and his occult teachings of these matters remain one of the mysteries in his life.3 Many of Leadbeater’s public pronouncements were igniting no less heated controversy, both inside and outside the Society. He stated that mankind originated on the Moon, eventually came to Earth several hundred thousand years ago, and is destined to some day leave this world, resettling on the planet Mercury. Mars, he said, was a pleasant place inhabited by human beings not much unlike ourselves, though more spiritually and intellectually elevated, and go around like Buddhist monks, bare-footed and dressed in common robes. On Fri, 4/4/14, steve.sun...@yahoo.com steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 12:25 PM Share, I think you can find all manner of opinions about communion. I just mentioned that as one comment I once heard. As rituals go,it seems okay to me. Is it hurting anyone? Not that I can see. Does it bring people some measure of comfort, or spiritual upliftment? It seems to. There was a theoophist, C.W. Leadbetter, (yes, the same one MJ regularly castigates), who said that the whole ritual leading up to the communion involves angels creating a sort of celestial altar culminating in the actual communion. So, there's a comment on the other end of the spectrum. My wife and kids regularly get communion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, I didn't know that about Communion, that some people think of it as cannabalism. I can see how they might think that. As for me, I've never been comfortable having some of the wine, which is allegedly become the blood of Christ. Maybe the early Christians morphed what Jesus did at the Last Supper to something more similar to what the pagans were doing. Similar to how they stole some of the pagan holidays. What I look forward to is when the huge field of neuroscience, psychoneuroendocrinology, etc. can provide some plausible explanations for some of our so called spiritual experiences. I mean, is the love of a mother for her newborn simply a chemical event precipitated by a huge increase in oxytocin?! On Thursday, April 3, 2014 4:39 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Share, some people compare it to cannibalism. I don't. I don't see anything wrong with it. As rituals go, it seems as good a one as any. I don't know if it was corrupted along the way somehow. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, but supposedly that's the way it played out at that Passover Supper. Not that it matters, but I think the new Pope is quite a breath of fresh air. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, one of the meta issues that fascinates me about all this is how in Catholicism we supposedly ingest the body and blood of Christ. What it suggests to me is something that the mythologist Joseph Campbell might notice, that in all cultures around the world, there's some notion of ingesting the other when it comes to humans and divinities. Must be something physically in the human brain about that. Does that sound far out? On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 10:50 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas, about the Vedic Gods. But I don't. There are some who think it is all a bunch of jibberish. I think Barry may be in this camp, and I hope I am not misrepresenting him. But I do
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yoga with Walpurgis 2 - at Anamay Vedic Resort in the Himalaya
then they can't be purusha - purusha means being singular, being celibate, doesn't it? Purusha as Marshy did it anyway. On Fri, 4/4/14, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yoga with Walpurgis 2 - at Anamay Vedic Resort in the Himalaya To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 12:49 PM The Purushas at Anamay Ashram are no longer part of the official programme and are free to do what they want. Urs Stroebel, the founder, simply followed Maharishi's onetime wish to have a Pundit Programme at that spot called the Switzerland of India and started the school and now: The Anamay Vedic Resort. He is now an Indian national BTW. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Nice pictures and music from Anamay Ashram in the Himalayas run by Purushas.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hksO7Nu995s
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
No, the question of whether it's literal or symbolic/metaphorical/poetic applies to any translation, not just the one TM uses. I was unclear on that point, sorry. As to why Maharishi had us read it in translation, if you'll recall we were instructed not to pay any attention to the semantic meaning but just let the expressions wash over us. At the time, tapes of the mandalas being recited in Sanskrit weren't yet available. Once they had been recorded, listening to them replaced reading the translation (which Maharishi had said gave only a taste of the effect compared to that of the Sanskrit sounds). IOW, the literal semantic meaning was never the point as far as Maharishi was concerned. The issue I was highlighting is whether it makes any sense to assume that the literal meaning of this very ancient, highly esoteric poetry (even in Sanskrit, but especially in translation) is the only one to be considered, or in fact whether it should be considered at all. I don't think we're in a position to know. And I don't think the fact that Wikipedia assumes Soma was a drink made from a plant in and of itself refutes Maharishi's notions that it's a substance made in the human stomach. Respond intelligently to what, your comments on the LINK I posted about Soma? You didn't make any, you went on a meaningless ramble about TM translations as though they are different somehow from the ones everyone else reads. Look at the wiki article. Soma is drink made from a plant. Why the hell would Marshy give us a book supporting that if thought something else anyway? You aren't making any sense. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Bit of a problem responding intelligently, eh, Salyavin? Are you for real? You mean, anyone who has read the Ninth Mandala in the translation TM uses will know that's how the Ninth Mandala in that translation describes soma. But they won't necessarily know to what degree that description is symbolic/poetic/metaphorical rather than literal, or even whether the original has been translated accurately (from the ancient Sanskrit to German, then from German to English). Indeed, and why bother? Anyone who has read the 9th Mandala of the Rig Veda will know it's a drink made from plant extracts. Soma (Sanskrit सोम sóma), or Haoma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haoma (Avestan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avestan), from Proto-Indo-Iranian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Iranian *sauma-, was a Vedic ritual drink[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma#cite_note-1 of importance among the early Indo-Iranians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranians, and the subsequent Vedic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_civilization and greater Persian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Iran cultures. It is frequently mentioned in the Rigveda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda, whose Soma Mandala http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma_Mandala contains 114 hymns, many praising its energizing qualities. In the Avesta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avesta, Haoma has the entire Yašt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya%C5%A1t 20 and Yasna http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasna 9-11 dedicated to it. It is described as being prepared by extracting juice from the stalks of a certain plant. In both Vedic and Zoroastrian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrian tradition, the name of the drink and the plant are the same, and also personified as a divinity, the three forming a religious or mythological unity. There has been much speculation concerning what is most likely to have been the identity of the original plant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botanical_identity_of_Soma-Haoma. There is no solid consensus on the question, although some Western experts outside the Vedic and Avestan religious traditions now seem to favour a species of Ephedra http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra_(genus), perhaps Ephedra sinica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra_sinica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma Sounds speedy!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Chupacabra Captured in Texas
It looks like he needs to find a job. It looks like somebody gave the vato some money. [image: Inline image 1] On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 9:59 PM, jr_...@yahoo.com wrote: It looks like he needs to find a job.
[FairfieldLife] Re: A Little House on the Prairie
We also looked at this little house on the prairie and it needs a little fixing up. The nice thing about this place is it's on the prairie with a nice view. And, there are lots of prairie dogs. [image: Inline image 1] On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 6:16 PM, Pundit Sir pundits...@gmail.com wrote: We looked at this place today - it needs a little fixing up. [image: Inline image 1]
[FairfieldLife] 1968!!
This article on Marshy just pretty much nails it! From 1968http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2010/04/the_maharishi_m.php
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yoga with Walpurgis 2 - at Anamay Vedic Resort in the Himalaya
so this would also mean the TMO doesn't recognize and sanction what these guys are doing there, eh? On Fri, 4/4/14, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yoga with Walpurgis 2 - at Anamay Vedic Resort in the Himalaya To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 12:49 PM The Purushas at Anamay Ashram are no longer part of the official programme and are free to do what they want. Urs Stroebel, the founder, simply followed Maharishi's onetime wish to have a Pundit Programme at that spot called the Switzerland of India and started the school and now: The Anamay Vedic Resort. He is now an Indian national BTW. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Nice pictures and music from Anamay Ashram in the Himalayas run by Purushas.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hksO7Nu995s
[FairfieldLife] Re: A Little House on the Prairie
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : We also looked at this little house on the prairie and it needs a little fixing up. The nice thing about this place is it's on the prairie with a nice view. And, there are lots of prairie dogs. And look, you already have the landscaping done with that grand old shade tree. Plus, no front door to have to paint. Just wondering what those longer boards sticking up above the front doorway and window are for. Perhaps they are indicative of some advanced Vastu installatation. On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 6:16 PM, Pundit Sir punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote: We looked at this place today - it needs a little fixing up.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
On 4/4/2014 1:09 AM, salyavin808 wrote: Soma is drink made from a plant. In fact, the Vedic soma was a decoction made from a combination of ingredients, one of which was an alkaloid substance - the amanita muscaria. Apparently the recipe for Vedic soma was lost due to the long lapse of time. So, substitutes were used instead, such as the native cannabis Indica. We read about soma in the Rig Veda, which was composed sometime around 1500 BC. So, we know that Aryan speakers made use of soma when they were in Iran. It should be noted, that the amanita fungus does not grow in the land of the Vedas. Soma use is a charateristic of the Sanskrit speakers who came into India, not to be confused with the indigenous tradition based on asceticism and the use of alkaloids in yogic enstasis. The latter is the esoteric yoga tradition not detailed in the Rig Veda. The use of alkaloids in India has a long tradition previous to the arrival of the Aryans.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn. The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on courses and conferences as the early 1970's research was being published in a sequence. You guys obviously were not there. -Buck mjackson74 writes: I have never seen that article before - give great historical perspective - especially the comment that they expected several thousand sidha permanently in Fairfield - guess they got that one wrong - also love the comment about Marshy's stretch limo. On Fri, 4/4/14, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com; FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 10:25 AM Anticipating comments from cult apologist masters disputing this, and claiming that the idea of the Maharishi Effect has been present since 1960, I challenge you to come up with a mention of the Maharishi Effect *per se* in *any* publication before 1978 (the years covered by my account below), and applying to the TMSP *per se*, not just to total numbers of people practicing TM, or the old 1% of the population idea. The earliest mention of any group effect I could find after a few rounds with Google's Advanced News Search page was this article from 1984, and that only mentioned the buzzword in effect at the time, super-radiance effect -- The Maharishi Wants Everybody to Levitate for Peace, but Some Iowans Are Hopping Mad Unless you can find a publication before 1978 with a verifiable date (meaning *not* revised later in an attempt at revisionist history as many of the current TM publications have been) talking about a mass effect caused by the TM-Sidhi program, and in particular using the term Maharishi Effect, I think my point has been made. Which is that the ME is a made-up term that was late to the party, invented *long* after the TMSP had been invented and had already been marketed for other reasons for years. My broader point is that some TM apologists have been so trained to perform revisionist history in their own brains that they'll claim it was present at the beginning of the TMSP program, *even though they themselves weren't*. Besides, the old 1984 People article is pretty funny, given the current state of Fairfield and the fact that the TMO can't find people to bounce around in the domes even when they PAY them to do so... :-) From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com; FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com; FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates The point I don't understand, Lawson, is WHY anyone would want to do research to validate or prove something as ludicrous as We can affect other people and the world by bouncing around on our butts on slabs of foam. Please explain to me HOW anyone could develop enough of an attachment to such a dumbfuck idea as to want to prove it. It occurs to me that someone should provide a little history about the TM Sidhis for those who weren't around when they first came out. That is, in the beginning there was NONE of this Maharishi Effect crap or even the *concept* that we were doing it for the world or anything like that. The TMSP was marketed to us True Believers at the time as: 1) a way to master superpowers like levitation, and 2) a way to (supposedly) progress more quickly towards one's *own* enlightenment. In the beginning, during the early courses, reason #1 was the one emphasized in any sales spiels. As the courses progressed and NO ONE ever manifested any siddhis, then they shifted their sales pitch to emphasize #2. By this time I'd given up on the whole thing and bailed from the whole TM movement, and *at no point had anything ever been mentioned about the TMSP benefiting anyone other than the person practicing it*.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
On 4/4/2014 2:07 AM, salyavin808 wrote: Try some magic mushrooms. The use of substances is a ritual practice that is abundantly attested in the shamanic world as well as among some yogins, and in the Aryana Vedas. We know that Patanjali himself puts simples (ausadhi), together with samadhi, among the means of obtaining the siddhis. Simples means ecstasy-inducing herbs or plants, from which the elixir of longevity was extracted in Ayerveda. In any case, simples produce ecstasy - and NOT the yogic samadhi. According to Eliade, these mystical means, properly belong to the phenomenology of ecstasy and they were only reluctantly admitted into the sphere of classic Yoga. Psychic and spiritual powers (siddhi) may be inborn, or they may be gained by the use of simples, or by mantra, or by striving, or by meditation. - Patanjali, Y.S. IV, 1 (translation by Barbara Stoler Miller)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : That's the guy. He did some good thinking on it and offered an explanation of why the rest of the scientific world doesn't take it seriously. The onus is very much on the TMO to prove it or at least explain it so others can get an idea of how it might .work - the feasibility of how it might work even. I think you can always spot a bad theory when it raises more questions than it answers. For every explanation I've heard for the ME I can think of many more things that it throws into confusion and the closer you get to physics the harder it gets to explain. If all this coherence is being passed through some field into other peoples minds, why not everyones? How does the field differentiate between happy thoughts and negative ones? What does human society mean to the fundamental structure of the universe? How come no one has found the unified field? It goes on and on. Everything has to go or be completely rewritten. No one minds doing that if it's incontravertible, think Darwin and Einstein. If I remember correctly it was Markovsky who suggested putting a meditator in a Faraday cage - which is a room isolated from all electromagnetic impulses as well as everything else - and getting people to meditate (or not) outside to see what changes there were (or not). The purpose of this approach is to make sure we aren't affecting each others meditation with pheromones or changes in breathing or even the power of suggestion causing the claimed deeper experiences people have in group meditation. Once you've done that and isolated the effect you can move onto the wider population and see what effect it's having on non-meditators nearby. Then all you've got to do is explain it, but with paranormal research it's data first and lots of it. To stop the TMO accidentally kidding itself and producing flawed research they should hand the whole thing over to James Randi, he offers a million bucks to anyone who can demonstrate paranormal powers. With a force as strong as the unified field it ought to be a breeze! Could get some mighty fine yagya's with that sort of money. So, apparently there is an ME but not the E that he (and the Movement) claims there is. The ME is all sorts of people running around believing their collective meditations are creating world peace and that one day they will fly or, indeed, are flying already. Maharishi had lots of effects but as far as I can tell none of them have anything to do with greater world consciousness as a result of meditating. On the other hand, the ME can be witnessed in a few people here who still seem to display his influence in their lives, and not only for the positive. I think it is a simple matter of re-defining what the ME is and it seems different for everyone (or almost everyone). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : It was Barry Markovsky! He is now ha ha! at the University of South Carolina! Whoo hoo! Barry Markovsky of the University of Iowa examined the Maharishi Effect theory and commented, “The theory receives low marks for meaningfulness. Key terms are undefined or only roughly characterized using other complex, undefined terms or metaphors.”22 They concluded that the theory’s claims “do not merit being taken seriously by the scientific community. The theory motivating the research is ill-constructed and not compelling in view of prior knowledge; the evidence offered is not impressive and mundane alternative hypotheses offer plausible explanations for the findings.”23 On Thu, 4/3/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 3, 2014, 10:05 PM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 8:21 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates Nice editing. You are conveniently dishonest when it suits you. I don't get why you find communicating so difficult, as soon as you get on the losing side of an argument you start railing and twisting against irrelevant points that are all perfectly valid in an argument against the ME by claiming you wouldn't have thought that in the first place. It makes no sense unless you just like arguing and attempting to feel superior and/or wounded and long suffering over other peoples perceived stupidity. Sure haven't seen much behaviour like that from you If you're a sceptic too why bother? 1. Because the point of arguing is simply to argue, not to win. She's going to declare victory anyway. 2. Because she wants to be seen as doing something to defend the idea of the ME while simultaneously claiming not to believe in it. She believes this exempts her from being a cult apologist, even though she consistently takes positions that place her in the position of doing just that -- apologizing for the cult. 3. Because the *real* point of any argument is to find something -- anything -- in what the other person said that she can nitpick about and then use to claim that they are STOOOPID or a LIAR or both. The way she thinks, if she can find even one thing that allows her to do that, she's won. (And interestingly, this actually seems to actually work for the one or two people who still support her, because they're too dumb to notice that she's completely ignored most of the other points or questions raised by the person she's out to demean.) 4. Because she has no choice. She's an argumentation vampire, and has to suck attention almost every day in the form of an argument or she'll burst into flames like those vampires on True Blood who get exposed to the sun. 5. Because someone out there is still WRONG, and it's her holy dharma to get them to admit it and apologize. Bawwy appears to have done a virtually life-long study on Judy. This would be admirable except for the fact that he professes to despise her and thinks she is some cunt too stupid to live (his words, not mine) which now makes it appear to be some disease on his part. Imagine focusing and writing about and responding to someone who you think is crazy, bitter, a cultist, a cunt and otherwise the scum of the Earth for so many years. Could this be the Judy Effect? Bawwy certainly appears to be unable to let her go, to ignore her, to stay unaffected and unmoved. This is actually quite hilarious given Bawwy's claims to all those things he, er, claims about himself which is a list too long to include here.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : The point I don't understand, Lawson, is WHY anyone would want to do research to validate or prove something as ludicrous as We can affect other people and the world by bouncing around on our butts on slabs of foam. Please explain to me HOW anyone could develop enough of an attachment to such a dumbfuck idea as to want to prove it. Well, you've certainly proven, without a doubt, the existence of the Judy Effect and you don't even have to move a muscle off the couch for it to be in full effect. I will, from this time forward, refer to this interesting phenomena as the JE and you appear to be most susceptible to it. You might want to reevaluate some dumbfuck idea to figure out why you are so vulnerable to her.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
On 4/4/2014 6:36 AM, Share Long wrote: Both something found in plants and in the gut of long term spiritual practitioners? Good question, Share. The primary ingredient in TM's bio-chemical laboratory is probably seratonin. The substance has been shown, in scientific studies, to be connected with alterations of mood in the human brain. For example, seratonin factors in the condition called miagrain syndrome, that is, acute or chronic headache. Since seratonin occurs naturally in the brain, it has been difficult to regulate. With TM, we may able to alter, at will, physiological functions in the human body, maybe at the level of cell-salt production. This would be a simple process, much less complex than mere levitation.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Share, I think you can find all manner of opinions about communion. I just mentioned that as one comment I once heard. As rituals go,it seems okay to me. Is it hurting anyone? Not that I can see. Does it bring people some measure of comfort, or spiritual upliftment? It seems to. There was a theoophist, C.W. Leadbetter, (yes, the same one MJ regularly castigates), who said that the whole ritual leading up to the communion involves angels creating a sort of celestial altar culminating in the actual communion. So, there's a comment on the other end of the spectrum. My wife and kids regularly get communion. Communion is an apt word. There are lots of ways of coming into contact or communion with a thing and many of them physical. Eating something or making love to someone places those entities, the subject, as close as you can get to really being inside yourself. This is a really good example of a willingness to hold that person or that thing as close to you as physically possible (being actually inside). So, it is a powerful image and a powerful show of willingness to be in total communion with a thing. Eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ is rather symbolic and not the same (for me) as eating the arm of my husband so I have no problem with the concept or actual practice of Holy Communion in the context of the Catholic Church (I am Catholic, although not practicing). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, I didn't know that about Communion, that some people think of it as cannabalism. I can see how they might think that. As for me, I've never been comfortable having some of the wine, which is allegedly become the blood of Christ. Maybe the early Christians morphed what Jesus did at the Last Supper to something more similar to what the pagans were doing. Similar to how they stole some of the pagan holidays. What I look forward to is when the huge field of neuroscience, psychoneuroendocrinology, etc. can provide some plausible explanations for some of our so called spiritual experiences. I mean, is the love of a mother for her newborn simply a chemical event precipitated by a huge increase in oxytocin?! On Thursday, April 3, 2014 4:39 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Share, some people compare it to cannibalism. I don't. I don't see anything wrong with it. As rituals go, it seems as good a one as any. I don't know if it was corrupted along the way somehow. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, but supposedly that's the way it played out at that Passover Supper. Not that it matters, but I think the new Pope is quite a breath of fresh air. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, one of the meta issues that fascinates me about all this is how in Catholicism we supposedly ingest the body and blood of Christ. What it suggests to me is something that the mythologist Joseph Campbell might notice, that in all cultures around the world, there's some notion of ingesting the other when it comes to humans and divinities. Must be something physically in the human brain about that. Does that sound far out? On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 10:50 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas, about the Vedic Gods. But I don't. There are some who think it is all a bunch of jibberish. I think Barry may be in this camp, and I hope I am not misrepresenting him. But I do generally have respect for ancient traditions. And I think most traditions have a more superficial aspect and a deeper, hidden aspect. I think the teachings of Jesus show this as well. What you relate about Maharishi's comments about Soma being produced in the gut, and God's feasting on it, doesn't really strike me as that strange. I think it's probably standard stuff in some schools of Hinduism. But do you really think they needed this to try to make a case of Hindu roots for TM? I mean the Puja could probably make that case. And that is hardly hidden. And I guess you could parse whether the Mantras have meaning or meaningless, but for whatever reason, and in some way, the technique has worked for many people, and still works for people who are just now learning it. And I believe at some point early in the movement it was discussed whether to bring it out as a religious practice, or a scientific one. Obviously the scientific approach won out. But of course the Hindu, or religious overtones are there. On the other hand, so what. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Somehow in my looking at TM, I have always missed this - any of you guys ever see this tape? If so what did you think of it? Soma and the Gods On the next Web page begins the transcription of Soma and the
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. I am not. I was there, and was on one of the first TM Sidhi courses, *while working at the TM National Center*, so I am pretty aware of how these courses were marketed and what was said about them at that time. There was NO MENTION of any group effect from the TM Sidhis before I left the TM movement in 1978. Any mention of the Maharishi Effect in the original 1976 Collected Papers was added later, in editions that had been subjected to revisionist history. The term hadn't even been *invented* in 1976. If you think differently, prove it. Otherwise I have the right to consider you as delusional as I often do anyway. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn.The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on courses and conferences as the early 1970's research was being published in a sequence. You guys obviously were not there. -Buck mjackson74 writes: I have never seen that article before - give great historical perspective - especially the comment that they expected several thousand sidha permanently in Fairfield - guess they got that one wrong - also love the comment about Marshy's stretch limo. On Fri, 4/4/14, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 10:25 AM Anticipating comments from cult apologist masters disputing this, and claiming that the idea of the Maharishi Effect has been present since 1960, I challenge you to come up with a mention of the Maharishi Effect *per se* in *any* publication before 1978 (the years covered by my account below), and applying to the TMSP *per se*, not just to total numbers of people practicing TM, or the old 1% of the population idea. The earliest mention of any group effect I could find after a few rounds with Google's Advanced News Search page was this article from 1984, and that only mentioned the buzzword in effect at the time, super-radiance effect -- The Maharishi Wants Everybody to Levitate for Peace, but Some Iowans Are Hopping Mad Unless you can find a publication before 1978 with a verifiable date (meaning *not* revised later in an attempt at revisionist history as many of the current TM publications have been) talking about a mass effect caused by the TM-Sidhi program, and in particular using the term Maharishi Effect, I think my point has been made. Which is that the ME is a made-up term that was late to the party, invented *long* after the TMSP had been invented and had already been marketed for other reasons for years. My broader point is that some TM apologists have been so trained to perform revisionist history in their own brains that they'll claim it was present at the beginning of the TMSP program, *even though they themselves weren't*. Besides, the old 1984 People article is pretty funny, given the current state of Fairfield and the fact that the TMO can't find people to bounce around in the domes even when they PAY them to do so... :-) From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates The point I don't understand, Lawson, is WHY anyone would want to do research to validate or prove something as ludicrous as We can affect other people and the world by bouncing around on our butts on slabs of foam. Please explain to me HOW anyone could develop enough of an attachment to such a dumbfuck idea as to want to prove it. It occurs to me that someone should provide a little history about the TM Sidhis for those who weren't around when they first came out. That is, in the beginning there was NONE of this Maharishi Effect crap or even the *concept* that we were doing it for the world or anything like that. The TMSP was marketed to us True Believers at the time as: 1) a way to master superpowers like levitation, and 2) a way to (supposedly) progress more quickly towards one's *own*
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
On 4/4/2014 7:04 AM, Share Long wrote: Maybe the early Christians morphed what Jesus did at the Last Supper to something more similar to what the pagans were doing. It's all about the sacrifice, bth pagan and later Semitic, then Christian. The greatest principle of Vedic thinkers was the principle of sacrifice, yajna in Sanksrit. The sacrifice was the hallmark of ardent Indo-Aryan civilization. The origin of the ritual sacrifice as an offering to the gods is in the yajna. The sacrifices of the Indo-Aryans were the main tradition in the Brahmanical philosophy of pre-Buddhist India, which is based on shamanism and the ascetic tradition. Hinduism is a synthesis of Brahmanism and Buddhism. According Pande, the chiefest idea which the priests repeatedly stress is the majesty of sacrifice. Sacrifice is indeed identified with Visnu, and with Prajapati and through its help the sacrificer was assured not only a celestial after-life, but safety, longevity, progeny, prosperity and fame in this life.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Little House on the Prairie
On 4/4/2014 8:36 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: Just wondering what those longer boards sticking up above the front doorway and window are for. Perhaps they are indicative of some advanced Vastu installatation. Well, I think that what you are seeing with the high boards on top is the result of having some boards to use for the remodeling, but you have no saw - but you do have a hammer and nails. My theory is that the previous owners got this little place before it was finished by the original builder, and wanted to turn it into a general store. So, the long boards may have been meant to hold up a sign above the building such as a sign that read: Joe's Place, or something like that. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
Richard, thank you for all the wonderful knowledge you're posting this morning. And I admit that I cringe at the word sacrifice. Can we substitute the word surrender? BTW, this morning my yogic flying had a wonderful devotional quality. That happens once in a while and I'm always grateful when it does. On Friday, April 4, 2014 9:13 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/4/2014 7:04 AM, Share Long wrote: Maybe the early Christians morphed what Jesus did at the Last Supper to something more similar to what the pagans were doing. It's all about the sacrifice, bth pagan and later Semitic, then Christian. The greatest principle of Vedic thinkers was the principle of sacrifice, yajna in Sanksrit. The sacrifice was the hallmark of ardent Indo-Aryan civilization. The origin of the ritual sacrifice as an offering to the gods is in the yajna. The sacrifices of the Indo-Aryans were the main tradition in the Brahmanical philosophy of pre-Buddhist India, which is based on shamanism and the ascetic tradition. Hinduism is a synthesis of Brahmanism and Buddhism. According Pande, the chiefest idea which the priests repeatedly stress is the majesty of sacrifice. Sacrifice is indeed identified with Visnu, and with Prajapati and through its help the sacrificer was assured not only a celestial after-life, but safety, longevity, progeny, prosperity and fame in this life.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
Thank you for these beautiful points, Ann. Now I'll do the Libra thing and mention how ancient people would eat various body parts of slain enemies to ingest their courage, etc. Go figure! On Friday, April 4, 2014 9:05 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Share, I think you can find all manner of opinions about communion. I just mentioned that as one comment I once heard. As rituals go,it seems okay to me. Is it hurting anyone? Not that I can see. Does it bring people some measure of comfort, or spiritual upliftment? It seems to. There was a theoophist, C.W. Leadbetter, (yes, the same one MJ regularly castigates), who said that the whole ritual leading up to the communion involves angels creating a sort of celestial altar culminating in the actual communion. So, there's a comment on the other end of the spectrum. My wife and kids regularly get communion. Communion is an apt word. There are lots of ways of coming into contact or communion with a thing and many of them physical. Eating something or making love to someone places those entities, the subject, as close as you can get to really being inside yourself. This is a really good example of a willingness to hold that person or that thing as close to you as physically possible (being actually inside). So, it is a powerful image and a powerful show of willingness to be in total communion with a thing. Eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ is rather symbolic and not the same (for me) as eating the arm of my husband so I have no problem with the concept or actual practice of Holy Communion in the context of the Catholic Church (I am Catholic, although not practicing). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, I didn't know that about Communion, that some people think of it as cannabalism. I can see how they might think that. As for me, I've never been comfortable having some of the wine, which is allegedly become the blood of Christ. Maybe the early Christians morphed what Jesus did at the Last Supper to something more similar to what the pagans were doing. Similar to how they stole some of the pagan holidays. What I look forward to is when the huge field of neuroscience, psychoneuroendocrinology, etc. can provide some plausible explanations for some of our so called spiritual experiences. I mean, is the love of a mother for her newborn simply a chemical event precipitated by a huge increase in oxytocin?! On Thursday, April 3, 2014 4:39 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Share, some people compare it to cannibalism. I don't. I don't see anything wrong with it. As rituals go, it seems as good a one as any. I don't know if it was corrupted along the way somehow. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, but supposedly that's the way it played out at that Passover Supper. Not that it matters, but I think the new Pope is quite a breath of fresh air. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, one of the meta issues that fascinates me about all this is how in Catholicism we supposedly ingest the body and blood of Christ. What it suggests to me is something that the mythologist Joseph Campbell might notice, that in all cultures around the world, there's some notion of ingesting the other when it comes to humans and divinities. Must be something physically in the human brain about that. Does that sound far out? On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 10:50 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas, about the Vedic Gods. But I don't. There are some who think it is all a bunch of jibberish. I think Barry may be in this camp, and I hope I am not misrepresenting him. But I do generally have respect for ancient traditions. And I think most traditions have a more superficial aspect and a deeper, hidden aspect. I think the teachings of Jesus show this as well. What you relate about Maharishi's comments about Soma being produced in the gut, and God's feasting on it, doesn't really strike me as that strange. I think it's probably standard stuff in some schools of Hinduism. But do you really think they needed this to try to make a case of Hindu roots for TM? I mean the Puja could probably make that case. And that is hardly hidden. And I guess you could parse whether the Mantras have meaning or meaningless, but for whatever reason, and in some way, the technique has worked for many people, and still works for people who are just now learning it. And I believe at some point early in the movement it was discussed whether to bring it out as a religious practice, or a scientific one. Obviously the scientific approach won out. But of course the Hindu, or religious overtones are there. On the other hand, so what. ---In
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
salyavin, I think it'll be fascinating when science can give us an indication of what might be meant by gods in this context and also by eating. BTW, I think soma has something to do with immortality so no wonder they sing its praises. On Friday, April 4, 2014 8:05 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: I couldn't begin to calculate the chances of a coincidence like that Share! The 9th mandala is about a drink made from plants, and it must have been a good one considering how much they go on about it. The idea of good digestion giving you good spiritual experiences is a given though, just not sure about the gods eating it. Gives me the creeps that bitno wonder they banned the video. But the same thing? You'd have to find both and see. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, is it possible that soma is both? Both something found in plants and in the gut of long term spiritual practitioners? On Friday, April 4, 2014 1:10 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Respond intelligently to what, your comments on the LINK I posted about Soma? You didn't make any, you went on a meaningless ramble about TM translations as though they are different somehow from the ones everyone else reads. Look at the wiki article. Soma is drink made from a plant. Why the hell would Marshy give us a book supporting that if thought something else anyway? You aren't making any sense. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Bit of a problem responding intelligently, eh, Salyavin? Are you for real? You mean, anyone who has read the Ninth Mandala in the translation TM uses will know that's how the Ninth Mandala in that translation describes soma. But they won't necessarily know to what degree that description is symbolic/poetic/metaphorical rather than literal, or even whether the original has been translated accurately (from the ancient Sanskrit to German, then from German to English). Indeed, and why bother? Anyone who has read the 9th Mandala of the Rig Veda will know it's a drink made from plant extracts. Soma (Sanskrit सोम sóma), or Haoma (Avestan), from Proto-Indo-Iranian *sauma-, was a Vedic ritual drink[1] of importance among the early Indo-Iranians, and the subsequent Vedic and greater Persian cultures. It is frequently mentioned in the Rigveda, whose Soma Mandala contains 114 hymns, many praising its energizing qualities. In the Avesta, Haoma has the entire Yašt 20 and Yasna 9-11 dedicated to it. It is described as being prepared by extracting juice from the stalks of a certain plant. In both Vedic and Zoroastrian tradition, the name of the drink and the plant are the same, and also personified as a divinity, the three forming a religious or mythological unity. There has been much speculation concerning what is most likely to have been the identity of the original plant. There is no solid consensus on the question, although some Western experts outside the Vedic and Avestan religious traditions now seem to favour a species of Ephedra, perhaps Ephedra sinica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma Sounds speedy!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
And yet, the word sacrifice bothers you. Share, in all your posts to Ann, you try to find a way to try and show that you are one upping her or, mostly, you work to throw dirty dish water or treat the essence of what she says with contempt (even if you acknowledge them, as you did here). But, but, but...it is one of the reasons you can't hold a real conversation; one must be able to hold someone else's perspective and deal with it respectfully. You aren't doing the Libra thing here. Stop trying to figure - that might help. I have to leave for the day, so won't be able to reply to you. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Thank you for these beautiful points, Ann. Now I'll do the Libra thing and mention how ancient people would eat various body parts of slain enemies to ingest their courage, etc. Go figure! On Friday, April 4, 2014 9:05 AM, awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@... wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Share, I think you can find all manner of opinions about communion. I just mentioned that as one comment I once heard. As rituals go,it seems okay to me. Is it hurting anyone? Not that I can see. Does it bring people some measure of comfort, or spiritual upliftment? It seems to. There was a theoophist, C.W. Leadbetter, (yes, the same one MJ regularly castigates), who said that the whole ritual leading up to the communion involves angels creating a sort of celestial altar culminating in the actual communion. So, there's a comment on the other end of the spectrum. My wife and kids regularly get communion. Communion is an apt word. There are lots of ways of coming into contact or communion with a thing and many of them physical. Eating something or making love to someone places those entities, the subject, as close as you can get to really being inside yourself. This is a really good example of a willingness to hold that person or that thing as close to you as physically possible (being actually inside). So, it is a powerful image and a powerful show of willingness to be in total communion with a thing. Eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ is rather symbolic and not the same (for me) as eating the arm of my husband so I have no problem with the concept or actual practice of Holy Communion in the context of the Catholic Church (I am Catholic, although not practicing). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, I didn't know that about Communion, that some people think of it as cannabalism. I can see how they might think that. As for me, I've never been comfortable having some of the wine, which is allegedly become the blood of Christ. Maybe the early Christians morphed what Jesus did at the Last Supper to something more similar to what the pagans were doing. Similar to how they stole some of the pagan holidays. What I look forward to is when the huge field of neuroscience, psychoneuroendocrinology, etc. can provide some plausible explanations for some of our so called spiritual experiences. I mean, is the love of a mother for her newborn simply a chemical event precipitated by a huge increase in oxytocin?! On Thursday, April 3, 2014 4:39 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Share, some people compare it to cannibalism. I don't. I don't see anything wrong with it. As rituals go, it seems as good a one as any. I don't know if it was corrupted along the way somehow. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, but supposedly that's the way it played out at that Passover Supper. Not that it matters, but I think the new Pope is quite a breath of fresh air. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, one of the meta issues that fascinates me about all this is how in Catholicism we supposedly ingest the body and blood of Christ. What it suggests to me is something that the mythologist Joseph Campbell might notice, that in all cultures around the world, there's some notion of ingesting the other when it comes to humans and divinities. Must be something physically in the human brain about that. Does that sound far out? On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 10:50 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas, about the Vedic Gods. But I don't. There are some who think it is all a bunch of jibberish. I think Barry may be in this camp, and I hope I am not misrepresenting him. But I do generally have respect for ancient traditions. And I think most traditions have a more superficial aspect and a deeper, hidden aspect. I think the teachings of Jesus show this as well. What you relate about Maharishi's comments about Soma being produced in the gut, and God's feasting on it, doesn't really strike me as that strange. I think it's probably standard stuff in some schools of
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
Emily, I am adding another point to what I think is a multi faceted and therefore fascinating topic. You completely misinterpret me here as I think you often do. On Friday, April 4, 2014 10:25 AM, emilymae...@yahoo.com emilymae...@yahoo.com wrote: And yet, the word sacrifice bothers you. Share, in all your posts to Ann, you try to find a way to try and show that you are one upping her or, mostly, you work to throw dirty dish water or treat the essence of what she says with contempt (even if you acknowledge them, as you did here). But, but, but...it is one of the reasons you can't hold a real conversation; one must be able to hold someone else's perspective and deal with it respectfully. You aren't doing the Libra thing here. Stop trying to figure - that might help. I have to leave for the day, so won't be able to reply to you. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Thank you for these beautiful points, Ann. Now I'll do the Libra thing and mention how ancient people would eat various body parts of slain enemies to ingest their courage, etc. Go figure! On Friday, April 4, 2014 9:05 AM, awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@... wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Share, I think you can find all manner of opinions about communion. I just mentioned that as one comment I once heard. As rituals go,it seems okay to me. Is it hurting anyone? Not that I can see. Does it bring people some measure of comfort, or spiritual upliftment? It seems to. There was a theoophist, C.W. Leadbetter, (yes, the same one MJ regularly castigates), who said that the whole ritual leading up to the communion involves angels creating a sort of celestial altar culminating in the actual communion. So, there's a comment on the other end of the spectrum. My wife and kids regularly get communion. Communion is an apt word. There are lots of ways of coming into contact or communion with a thing and many of them physical. Eating something or making love to someone places those entities, the subject, as close as you can get to really being inside yourself. This is a really good example of a willingness to hold that person or that thing as close to you as physically possible (being actually inside). So, it is a powerful image and a powerful show of willingness to be in total communion with a thing. Eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ is rather symbolic and not the same (for me) as eating the arm of my husband so I have no problem with the concept or actual practice of Holy Communion in the context of the Catholic Church (I am Catholic, although not practicing). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, I didn't know that about Communion, that some people think of it as cannabalism. I can see how they might think that. As for me, I've never been comfortable having some of the wine, which is allegedly become the blood of Christ. Maybe the early Christians morphed what Jesus did at the Last Supper to something more similar to what the pagans were doing. Similar to how they stole some of the pagan holidays. What I look forward to is when the huge field of neuroscience, psychoneuroendocrinology, etc. can provide some plausible explanations for some of our so called spiritual experiences. I mean, is the love of a mother for her newborn simply a chemical event precipitated by a huge increase in oxytocin?! On Thursday, April 3, 2014 4:39 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Share, some people compare it to cannibalism. I don't. I don't see anything wrong with it. As rituals go, it seems as good a one as any. I don't know if it was corrupted along the way somehow. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, but supposedly that's the way it played out at that Passover Supper. Not that it matters, but I think the new Pope is quite a breath of fresh air. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, one of the meta issues that fascinates me about all this is how in Catholicism we supposedly ingest the body and blood of Christ. What it suggests to me is something that the mythologist Joseph Campbell might notice, that in all cultures around the world, there's some notion of ingesting the other when it comes to humans and divinities. Must be something physically in the human brain about that. Does that sound far out? On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 10:50 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas, about the Vedic Gods. But I don't. There are some who think it is all a bunch of jibberish. I think Barry may be in this camp, and I hope I am not misrepresenting him. But I do generally have respect for ancient traditions. And I think most traditions have a more superficial aspect and a deeper, hidden aspect. I think the teachings of Jesus show this as
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
Just doing the Libra thing here, Share. Smile. You can't see yourself objectively; you don't know yourself as well as you think you do, imho. Have a good day. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Emily, I am adding another point to what I think is a multi faceted and therefore fascinating topic. You completely misinterpret me here as I think you often do. On Friday, April 4, 2014 10:25 AM, emilymaenot@... emilymaenot@... wrote: And yet, the word sacrifice bothers you. Share, in all your posts to Ann, you try to find a way to try and show that you are one upping her or, mostly, you work to throw dirty dish water or treat the essence of what she says with contempt (even if you acknowledge them, as you did here). But, but, but...it is one of the reasons you can't hold a real conversation; one must be able to hold someone else's perspective and deal with it respectfully. You aren't doing the Libra thing here. Stop trying to figure - that might help. I have to leave for the day, so won't be able to reply to you. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Thank you for these beautiful points, Ann. Now I'll do the Libra thing and mention how ancient people would eat various body parts of slain enemies to ingest their courage, etc. Go figure! On Friday, April 4, 2014 9:05 AM, awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@... wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Share, I think you can find all manner of opinions about communion. I just mentioned that as one comment I once heard. As rituals go,it seems okay to me. Is it hurting anyone? Not that I can see. Does it bring people some measure of comfort, or spiritual upliftment? It seems to. There was a theoophist, C.W. Leadbetter, (yes, the same one MJ regularly castigates), who said that the whole ritual leading up to the communion involves angels creating a sort of celestial altar culminating in the actual communion. So, there's a comment on the other end of the spectrum. My wife and kids regularly get communion. Communion is an apt word. There are lots of ways of coming into contact or communion with a thing and many of them physical. Eating something or making love to someone places those entities, the subject, as close as you can get to really being inside yourself. This is a really good example of a willingness to hold that person or that thing as close to you as physically possible (being actually inside). So, it is a powerful image and a powerful show of willingness to be in total communion with a thing. Eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ is rather symbolic and not the same (for me) as eating the arm of my husband so I have no problem with the concept or actual practice of Holy Communion in the context of the Catholic Church (I am Catholic, although not practicing). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, I didn't know that about Communion, that some people think of it as cannabalism. I can see how they might think that. As for me, I've never been comfortable having some of the wine, which is allegedly become the blood of Christ. Maybe the early Christians morphed what Jesus did at the Last Supper to something more similar to what the pagans were doing. Similar to how they stole some of the pagan holidays. What I look forward to is when the huge field of neuroscience, psychoneuroendocrinology, etc. can provide some plausible explanations for some of our so called spiritual experiences. I mean, is the love of a mother for her newborn simply a chemical event precipitated by a huge increase in oxytocin?! On Thursday, April 3, 2014 4:39 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Share, some people compare it to cannibalism. I don't. I don't see anything wrong with it. As rituals go, it seems as good a one as any. I don't know if it was corrupted along the way somehow. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, but supposedly that's the way it played out at that Passover Supper. Not that it matters, but I think the new Pope is quite a breath of fresh air. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, one of the meta issues that fascinates me about all this is how in Catholicism we supposedly ingest the body and blood of Christ. What it suggests to me is something that the mythologist Joseph Campbell might notice, that in all cultures around the world, there's some notion of ingesting the other when it comes to humans and divinities. Must be something physically in the human brain about that. Does that sound far out? On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 10:50 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas, about the Vedic Gods. But I don't. There are some who think it is all a bunch of jibberish. I think
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Thank you for these beautiful points, Ann. Now I'll do the Libra thing and mention how ancient people would eat various body parts of slain enemies to ingest their courage, etc. Go figure! Exactly my point. No one would ingest something they either didn't love or want to embody an aspect of. Actually eating something is a pretty potent indication or symbol of just that. (Of course I am not talking about food here.)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
Corrected... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote : And yet, the word sacrifice bothers you. Share, in all your posts to Ann, you try to find a way to try and show that you are one upping her or, mostly, you work to throw dirty dish water on her points or treat the essence of what she says with contempt (even if you acknowledge her thoughts, as you did here). But, but, but...it is one of the reasons you can't hold a real conversation; one must be able to hold someone else's perspective and deal with it respectfully. You aren't doing the Libra thing here. Stop trying to figure - that might help. I have to leave for the day, so won't be able to reply to you. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Thank you for these beautiful points, Ann. Now I'll do the Libra thing and mention how ancient people would eat various body parts of slain enemies to ingest their courage, etc. Go figure! On Friday, April 4, 2014 9:05 AM, awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@... wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Share, I think you can find all manner of opinions about communion. I just mentioned that as one comment I once heard. As rituals go,it seems okay to me. Is it hurting anyone? Not that I can see. Does it bring people some measure of comfort, or spiritual upliftment? It seems to. There was a theoophist, C.W. Leadbetter, (yes, the same one MJ regularly castigates), who said that the whole ritual leading up to the communion involves angels creating a sort of celestial altar culminating in the actual communion. So, there's a comment on the other end of the spectrum. My wife and kids regularly get communion. Communion is an apt word. There are lots of ways of coming into contact or communion with a thing and many of them physical. Eating something or making love to someone places those entities, the subject, as close as you can get to really being inside yourself. This is a really good example of a willingness to hold that person or that thing as close to you as physically possible (being actually inside). So, it is a powerful image and a powerful show of willingness to be in total communion with a thing. Eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ is rather symbolic and not the same (for me) as eating the arm of my husband so I have no problem with the concept or actual practice of Holy Communion in the context of the Catholic Church (I am Catholic, although not practicing). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, I didn't know that about Communion, that some people think of it as cannabalism. I can see how they might think that. As for me, I've never been comfortable having some of the wine, which is allegedly become the blood of Christ. Maybe the early Christians morphed what Jesus did at the Last Supper to something more similar to what the pagans were doing. Similar to how they stole some of the pagan holidays. What I look forward to is when the huge field of neuroscience, psychoneuroendocrinology, etc. can provide some plausible explanations for some of our so called spiritual experiences. I mean, is the love of a mother for her newborn simply a chemical event precipitated by a huge increase in oxytocin?! On Thursday, April 3, 2014 4:39 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Share, some people compare it to cannibalism. I don't. I don't see anything wrong with it. As rituals go, it seems as good a one as any. I don't know if it was corrupted along the way somehow. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, but supposedly that's the way it played out at that Passover Supper. Not that it matters, but I think the new Pope is quite a breath of fresh air. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, one of the meta issues that fascinates me about all this is how in Catholicism we supposedly ingest the body and blood of Christ. What it suggests to me is something that the mythologist Joseph Campbell might notice, that in all cultures around the world, there's some notion of ingesting the other when it comes to humans and divinities. Must be something physically in the human brain about that. Does that sound far out? On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 10:50 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Michael, I wish I knew more about Soma, about the Vedas, about the Vedic Gods. But I don't. There are some who think it is all a bunch of jibberish. I think Barry may be in this camp, and I hope I am not misrepresenting him. But I do generally have respect for ancient traditions. And I think most traditions have a more superficial aspect and a deeper, hidden aspect. I think the teachings of Jesus show this as well. What you relate about Maharishi's comments about Soma being produced in the gut, and God's feasting on it,
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
I recall the marketing for the TM-Sidhi programme and it was pretty much as Barry has said. I found the following on the MUM website (*emphasis added*): The World Peace Project *Immediately following the discovery of the Super-Radiance effect in the Fall off 1978*, Maharishi decided to apply it to resolve conflicts in the international arena. More than 1400 experts in the Transcendental Meditation and TM-Sidhi program were sent for approximately two months (November and December, 1978) to several trouble spots of the world, including Central America (Nicaragua), the Middle East (Lebanon), Southern Africa (Rhodesia-Zimbabwe) and Zambia), and to Southeast Asia (Cambodia) as well as to surrounding countries. (the portion I quoted is about halfway down the page) Therefore it seems extremely unlikely that the Sidhi programme was marketed as a group phenomenon prior to this time. I knew several of the governors who went off on those excursions from New York. The marketing before that was all super powers and faster evolution. I was told the movement wanted to get rights to use the Superman comic book character to advertise, but was refused. From a scientific view, 'discovery' is premature, for from a scientific point of view, the jury on this concept has not even yet been convened, as the science has not been confirmed outside movement sources, and is thus ignored outside the meditator community except as a news item from time to time. This brings up an interesting question for me. I have observed that most people who enter into spiritual circles tend to bring with them a number of supersitions, and spiritual movements tend to be a hot bed of superstitious ideas. People within the TM fold seem to hold all sorts of ideas about reality that are not part of the TM canon. What was Maharishi like when he entered into his spiritual circle, what sort of ideas did he have, how did he understand the world prior and during and after his time with Saraswati? Most people seem to change ideas rather slowly except during religious conversion, or sometimes in the face of overwhelming evidence. My hypothesis is the tendency to be superstitious persists while meditating or even doing hard science. So my question is how much nonsense did Maharishi inherit and eventually pass on to us? In addition there are other behavioural features of belief systems. In the classic study 'When Prophesy Fails' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails) believers that expected certain events to occur had those hopes dashed, but interestingly, before the failure they were very secretive about their beliefs, but after the failure they went into proselytising mode, trying to get many more into their mode of belief. This is a bizarre conclusion considering the evidence that the ideas simply totally failed, but human nature is not strictly rational. This seems to be the mental characteristic of spiritual movements whose predictions did not come to pass, that it does not matter if what was said is not true. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. I am not. I was there, and was on one of the first TM Sidhi courses, *while working at the TM National Center*, so I am pretty aware of how these courses were marketed and what was said about them at that time. There was NO MENTION of any group effect from the TM Sidhis before I left the TM movement in 1978. Any mention of the Maharishi Effect in the original 1976 Collected Papers was added later, in editions that had been subjected to revisionist history. The term hadn't even been *invented* in 1976. If you think differently, prove it. Otherwise I have the right to consider you as delusional as I often do anyway. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn. The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on courses and conferences as the early 1970's research was being published in a sequence. You guys obviously were not there. -Buck mjackson74 writes: I have never seen that article before - give great historical perspective - especially the comment that they expected several thousand sidha permanently in Fairfield - guess they got that one wrong - also love the comment about Marshy's stretch limo.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Harvesting the Moon
On 04/03/2014 08:33 PM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : On 04/03/2014 06:53 PM, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote : We need to send billionaires to Mars and leave them there. I don't think we could afford to. Why? Because we, who are presumably not rich. couldn't afford the spaceship and fuel. I wasn't talking about the other kind of afford as in we couldn't do without them. Nah, they can afford their own ship and will go there after we tell them about the amazing investment opportunities on Mars where quintillions are to be made in minerals. On 04/03/2014 04:21 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... wrote: An entrepreneur wants to send a robot ship to the Moon to bring back valuable materials, like gold, palladium, and others to Earth. But, if Srila Prabhupada is right, the Moon's inhabitants may not approve this venture. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/billionaire-wants-harvest-moon-11312.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
Once the Heidelberg color presses were purchased [early 1970's] Maharishi published in cycle through the decades major volumes that he edited that show the progression of the science, thought, and programs. It was all for linking modern science research in spirituality. He was remarkably progressive, visionary and revolutionary all at once. I feel you guys should respect him more as the rishi, teacher, and scientist he was. -Buck Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. I am not. I was there, and was on one of the first TM Sidhi courses, *while working at the TM National Center*, so I am pretty aware of how these courses were marketed and what was said about them at that time. There was NO MENTION of any group effect from the TM Sidhis before I left the TM movement in 1978. Any mention of the Maharishi Effect in the original 1976 Collected Papers was added later, in editions that had been subjected to revisionist history. The term hadn't even been *invented* in 1976. If you think differently, prove it. Otherwise I have the right to consider you as delusional as I often do anyway. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn. The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on courses and conferences as the early 1970's research was being published in a sequence. You guys obviously were not there. -Buck mjackson74 writes: I have never seen that article before - give great historical perspective - especially the comment that they expected several thousand sidha permanently in Fairfield - guess they got that one wrong - also love the comment about Marshy's stretch limo. On Fri, 4/4/14, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com; FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 10:25 AM Anticipating comments from cult apologist masters disputing this, and claiming that the idea of the Maharishi Effect has been present since 1960, I challenge you to come up with a mention of the Maharishi Effect *per se* in *any* publication before 1978 (the years covered by my account below), and applying to the TMSP *per se*, not just to total numbers of people practicing TM, or the old 1% of the population idea. The earliest mention of any group effect I could find after a few rounds with Google's Advanced News Search page was this article from 1984, and that only mentioned the buzzword in effect at the time, super-radiance effect -- The Maharishi Wants Everybody to Levitate for Peace, but Some Iowans Are Hopping Mad Unless you can find a publication before 1978 with a verifiable date (meaning *not* revised later in an attempt at revisionist history as many of the current TM publications have been) talking about a mass effect caused by the TM-Sidhi program, and in particular using the term Maharishi Effect, I think my point has been made. Which is that the ME is a made-up term that was late to the party, invented *long* after the TMSP had been invented and had already been marketed for other reasons for years. My broader point is that some TM apologists have been so trained to perform revisionist history in their own brains that they'll claim it was present at the beginning of the TMSP program, *even though they themselves weren't*. Besides, the old 1984 People article is pretty funny, given the current state of Fairfield and the fact that the TMO can't find people to bounce around in the domes even when they PAY them to do so... :-) From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com; FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com; FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates The point I don't understand, Lawson, is WHY anyone would want to do research to validate or prove something as ludicrous as We can affect other people and the world by bouncing around on our butts on slabs of
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
Buck, Maharishi did a lot of interesting things. In the world of science, however, it is data and confirmation of hypotheses that drive forward. A scientist that has a successful career is basically working to extend knowledge, and does so by superseding, by surpassing his mentors, and in science that means showing what your mentors did was in some way wrong, and that the newer knowledge is less wrong (still might not be right though). The question here is does TM and its related things accomplish what it is said to do? Does it work uniformly or non-uniformly on those who practise it? What percentage of practitioners truly reach the stated goals? How good is the data? Was the data processed properly? I think the results, which were eventually good for me, are nonetheless very uneven, and essentially, because movement science is largely ignored by the wider community, unproved. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Once the Heidelberg color presses were purchased [early 1970's] Maharishi published in cycle through the decades major volumes that he edited that show the progression of the science, thought, and programs. It was all for linking modern science research in spirituality. He was remarkably progressive, visionary and revolutionary all at once. I feel you guys should respect him more as the rishi, teacher, and scientist he was. -Buck Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. I am not. I was there, and was on one of the first TM Sidhi courses, *while working at the TM National Center*, so I am pretty aware of how these courses were marketed and what was said about them at that time. There was NO MENTION of any group effect from the TM Sidhis before I left the TM movement in 1978. Any mention of the Maharishi Effect in the original 1976 Collected Papers was added later, in editions that had been subjected to revisionist history. The term hadn't even been *invented* in 1976. If you think differently, prove it. Otherwise I have the right to consider you as delusional as I often do anyway. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn. The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on courses and conferences as the early 1970's research was being published in a sequence. You guys obviously were not there. -Buck mjackson74 writes: I have never seen that article before - give great historical perspective - especially the comment that they expected several thousand sidha permanently in Fairfield - guess they got that one wrong - also love the comment about Marshy's stretch limo. On Fri, 4/4/14, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com; FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 10:25 AM Anticipating comments from cult apologist masters disputing this, and claiming that the idea of the Maharishi Effect has been present since 1960, I challenge you to come up with a mention of the Maharishi Effect *per se* in *any* publication before 1978 (the years covered by my account below), and applying to the TMSP *per se*, not just to total numbers of people practicing TM, or the old 1% of the population idea. The earliest mention of any group effect I could find after a few rounds with Google's Advanced News Search page was this article from 1984, and that only mentioned the buzzword in effect at the time, super-radiance effect -- The Maharishi Wants Everybody to Levitate for Peace, but Some Iowans Are Hopping Mad Unless you can find a publication before 1978 with a verifiable date (meaning *not* revised later in an attempt at revisionist history as many of the current TM publications have been) talking about a mass effect caused by the TM-Sidhi program, and in particular using the term Maharishi Effect, I think my point has been made. Which is that the ME is a made-up term that was late to the party, invented *long* after the TMSP had been invented and had already been marketed for other reasons for years. My broader point is that some TM apologists have been so trained to perform revisionist history in their own brains that they'll claim it was present at the beginning of the TMSP program, *even though they themselves weren't*. Besides, the old 1984 People article is pretty funny, given the current state of Fairfield and the fact that the TMO can't find people to
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
Correction: Neo dropped out the link to the quote from MUM.edu below http://www.mum.edu/default.aspx?RelId=622793 http://www.mum.edu/default.aspx?RelId=622793 -- ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : I recall the marketing for the TM-Sidhi programme and it was pretty much as Barry has said. I found the following on the MUM website (*emphasis added*): The World Peace Project *Immediately following the discovery of the Super-Radiance effect in the Fall off 1978*, Maharishi decided to apply it to resolve conflicts in the international arena. More than 1400 experts in the Transcendental Meditation and TM-Sidhi program were sent for approximately two months (November and December, 1978) to several trouble spots of the world, including Central America (Nicaragua), the Middle East (Lebanon), Southern Africa (Rhodesia-Zimbabwe) and Zambia), and to Southeast Asia (Cambodia) as well as to surrounding countries. (the portion I quoted is about halfway down the page) Therefore it seems extremely unlikely that the Sidhi programme was marketed as a group phenomenon prior to this time. I knew several of the governors who went off on those excursions from New York. The marketing before that was all super powers and faster evolution. I was told the movement wanted to get rights to use the Superman comic book character to advertise, but was refused. From a scientific view, 'discovery' is premature, for from a scientific point of view, the jury on this concept has not even yet been convened, as the science has not been confirmed outside movement sources, and is thus ignored outside the meditator community except as a news item from time to time. This brings up an interesting question for me. I have observed that most people who enter into spiritual circles tend to bring with them a number of supersitions, and spiritual movements tend to be a hot bed of superstitious ideas. People within the TM fold seem to hold all sorts of ideas about reality that are not part of the TM canon. What was Maharishi like when he entered into his spiritual circle, what sort of ideas did he have, how did he understand the world prior and during and after his time with Saraswati? Most people seem to change ideas rather slowly except during religious conversion, or sometimes in the face of overwhelming evidence. My hypothesis is the tendency to be superstitious persists while meditating or even doing hard science. So my question is how much nonsense did Maharishi inherit and eventually pass on to us? In addition there are other behavioural features of belief systems. In the classic study 'When Prophesy Fails' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails) believers that expected certain events to occur had those hopes dashed, but interestingly, before the failure they were very secretive about their beliefs, but after the failure they went into proselytising mode, trying to get many more into their mode of belief. This is a bizarre conclusion considering the evidence that the ideas simply totally failed, but human nature is not strictly rational. This seems to be the mental characteristic of spiritual movements whose predictions did not come to pass, that it does not matter if what was said is not true. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. I am not. I was there, and was on one of the first TM Sidhi courses, *while working at the TM National Center*, so I am pretty aware of how these courses were marketed and what was said about them at that time. There was NO MENTION of any group effect from the TM Sidhis before I left the TM movement in 1978. Any mention of the Maharishi Effect in the original 1976 Collected Papers was added later, in editions that had been subjected to revisionist history. The term hadn't even been *invented* in 1976. If you think differently, prove it. Otherwise I have the right to consider you as delusional as I often do anyway. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn. The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on courses and conferences as the early 1970's research was being published in a sequence. You guys obviously were not there. -Buck
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
Correction, Neo dropped the link to the MUM web page quoted below: http://www.mum.edu/default.aspx?RelId=622793 http://www.mum.edu/default.aspx?RelId=622793 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : I recall the marketing for the TM-Sidhi programme and it was pretty much as Barry has said. I found the following on the MUM website (*emphasis added*): The World Peace Project *Immediately following the discovery of the Super-Radiance effect in the Fall off 1978*, Maharishi decided to apply it to resolve conflicts in the international arena. More than 1400 experts in the Transcendental Meditation and TM-Sidhi program were sent for approximately two months (November and December, 1978) to several trouble spots of the world, including Central America (Nicaragua), the Middle East (Lebanon), Southern Africa (Rhodesia-Zimbabwe) and Zambia), and to Southeast Asia (Cambodia) as well as to surrounding countries. (the portion I quoted is about halfway down the page) Therefore it seems extremely unlikely that the Sidhi programme was marketed as a group phenomenon prior to this time. I knew several of the governors who went off on those excursions from New York. The marketing before that was all super powers and faster evolution. I was told the movement wanted to get rights to use the Superman comic book character to advertise, but was refused. From a scientific view, 'discovery' is premature, for from a scientific point of view, the jury on this concept has not even yet been convened, as the science has not been confirmed outside movement sources, and is thus ignored outside the meditator community except as a news item from time to time. This brings up an interesting question for me. I have observed that most people who enter into spiritual circles tend to bring with them a number of supersitions, and spiritual movements tend to be a hot bed of superstitious ideas. People within the TM fold seem to hold all sorts of ideas about reality that are not part of the TM canon. What was Maharishi like when he entered into his spiritual circle, what sort of ideas did he have, how did he understand the world prior and during and after his time with Saraswati? Most people seem to change ideas rather slowly except during religious conversion, or sometimes in the face of overwhelming evidence. My hypothesis is the tendency to be superstitious persists while meditating or even doing hard science. So my question is how much nonsense did Maharishi inherit and eventually pass on to us? In addition there are other behavioural features of belief systems. In the classic study 'When Prophesy Fails' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails) believers that expected certain events to occur had those hopes dashed, but interestingly, before the failure they were very secretive about their beliefs, but after the failure they went into proselytising mode, trying to get many more into their mode of belief. This is a bizarre conclusion considering the evidence that the ideas simply totally failed, but human nature is not strictly rational. This seems to be the mental characteristic of spiritual movements whose predictions did not come to pass, that it does not matter if what was said is not true. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. I am not. I was there, and was on one of the first TM Sidhi courses, *while working at the TM National Center*, so I am pretty aware of how these courses were marketed and what was said about them at that time. There was NO MENTION of any group effect from the TM Sidhis before I left the TM movement in 1978. Any mention of the Maharishi Effect in the original 1976 Collected Papers was added later, in editions that had been subjected to revisionist history. The term hadn't even been *invented* in 1976. If you think differently, prove it. Otherwise I have the right to consider you as delusional as I often do anyway. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn. The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on courses and conferences as the early 1970's research was being published in a sequence. You guys obviously were not there. -Buck mjackson74 writes: I have never seen that article before - give great historical
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
My apologies Share. I was just checking to see if my conscience was working. It is! I will refrain from posting to you. How was what you posted a Libra thang - did you mean that you were operating to balance? Was there a need for that? Rather, it was consistent with the overall theme of ingesting. I was balancing, by providing you with an alternative perspective on your unconscious MO. WAIT! Maybe this is it...I found this on the internet...Inside, the Libra is very insecure, they suffer from a lack of self confidence, they are always searching for something to complete them. Keep ingesting, Share. Love, Emily. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote : Corrected... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote : And yet, the word sacrifice bothers you. Share, in all your posts to Ann, you try to find a way to try and show that you are one upping her or, mostly, you work to throw dirty dish water on her points or treat the essence of what she says with contempt (even if you acknowledge her thoughts, as you did here). But, but, but...it is one of the reasons you can't hold a real conversation; one must be able to hold someone else's perspective and deal with it respectfully. You aren't doing the Libra thing here. Stop trying to figure - that might help. I have to leave for the day, so won't be able to reply to you. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Thank you for these beautiful points, Ann. Now I'll do the Libra thing and mention how ancient people would eat various body parts of slain enemies to ingest their courage, etc. Go figure! On Friday, April 4, 2014 9:05 AM, awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@... wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Share, I think you can find all manner of opinions about communion. I just mentioned that as one comment I once heard. As rituals go,it seems okay to me. Is it hurting anyone? Not that I can see. Does it bring people some measure of comfort, or spiritual upliftment? It seems to. There was a theoophist, C.W. Leadbetter, (yes, the same one MJ regularly castigates), who said that the whole ritual leading up to the communion involves angels creating a sort of celestial altar culminating in the actual communion. So, there's a comment on the other end of the spectrum. My wife and kids regularly get communion. Communion is an apt word. There are lots of ways of coming into contact or communion with a thing and many of them physical. Eating something or making love to someone places those entities, the subject, as close as you can get to really being inside yourself. This is a really good example of a willingness to hold that person or that thing as close to you as physically possible (being actually inside). So, it is a powerful image and a powerful show of willingness to be in total communion with a thing. Eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ is rather symbolic and not the same (for me) as eating the arm of my husband so I have no problem with the concept or actual practice of Holy Communion in the context of the Catholic Church (I am Catholic, although not practicing). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, I didn't know that about Communion, that some people think of it as cannabalism. I can see how they might think that. As for me, I've never been comfortable having some of the wine, which is allegedly become the blood of Christ. Maybe the early Christians morphed what Jesus did at the Last Supper to something more similar to what the pagans were doing. Similar to how they stole some of the pagan holidays. What I look forward to is when the huge field of neuroscience, psychoneuroendocrinology, etc. can provide some plausible explanations for some of our so called spiritual experiences. I mean, is the love of a mother for her newborn simply a chemical event precipitated by a huge increase in oxytocin?! On Thursday, April 3, 2014 4:39 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Share, some people compare it to cannibalism. I don't. I don't see anything wrong with it. As rituals go, it seems as good a one as any. I don't know if it was corrupted along the way somehow. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, but supposedly that's the way it played out at that Passover Supper. Not that it matters, but I think the new Pope is quite a breath of fresh air. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, one of the meta issues that fascinates me about all this is how in Catholicism we supposedly ingest the body and blood of Christ. What it suggests to me is something that the mythologist Joseph Campbell might notice, that in all cultures around the world, there's some notion of ingesting the other when it comes to humans and divinities. Must be something
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
As much as people want to dump on Maharishi as being some secreted ultra-traditional nationalistic hindoo-ist, the record shows they guy to be quite a modern and spiritual human. He was incredibly consistent looking at the whole progression as science, spirituality in consciousness, and policy as the larger spiritual movement built through a span of time and developed to what we see. -Buck Anartaxius writes: Buck, Maharishi did a lot of interesting things. In the world of science, however, it is data and confirmation of hypotheses that drive forward. A scientist that has a successful career is basically working to extend knowledge, and does so by superseding, by surpassing his mentors, and in science that means showing what your mentors did was in some way wrong, and that the newer knowledge is less wrong (still might not be right though). The question here is does TM and its related things accomplish what it is said to do? Does it work uniformly or non-uniformly on those who practise it? What percentage of practitioners truly reach the stated goals? How good is the data? Was the data processed properly? I think the results, which were eventually good for me, are nonetheless very uneven, and essentially, because movement science is largely ignored by the wider community, unproved. Once the Heidelberg color presses were purchased [early 1970's] Maharishi published in cycle through the decades major volumes that he edited that show the progression of the science, thought, and programs. It was all for linking modern science research in spirituality. He was remarkably progressive, visionary and revolutionary all at once. I feel you guys should respect him more as the rishi, teacher, and scientist he was. -Buck Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. I am not. I was there, and was on one of the first TM Sidhi courses, *while working at the TM National Center*, so I am pretty aware of how these courses were marketed and what was said about them at that time. There was NO MENTION of any group effect from the TM Sidhis before I left the TM movement in 1978. Any mention of the Maharishi Effect in the original 1976 Collected Papers was added later, in editions that had been subjected to revisionist history. The term hadn't even been *invented* in 1976. If you think differently, prove it. Otherwise I have the right to consider you as delusional as I often do anyway. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn. The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on courses and conferences as the early 1970's research was being published in a sequence. You guys obviously were not there. -Buck mjackson74 writes: I have never seen that article before - give great historical perspective - especially the comment that they expected several thousand sidha permanently in Fairfield - guess they got that one wrong - also love the comment about Marshy's stretch limo. On Fri, 4/4/14, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com; FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 10:25 AM Anticipating comments from cult apologist masters disputing this, and claiming that the idea of the Maharishi Effect has been present since 1960, I challenge you to come up with a mention of the Maharishi Effect *per se* in *any* publication before 1978 (the years covered by my account below), and applying to the TMSP *per se*, not just to total numbers of people practicing TM, or the old 1% of the population idea. The earliest mention of any group effect I could find after a few rounds with Google's Advanced News Search page was this article from 1984, and that only mentioned the buzzword in effect at the time, super-radiance effect -- The Maharishi Wants Everybody to Levitate for Peace, but Some Iowans Are Hopping Mad Unless you can find a publication before 1978 with a verifiable date (meaning *not* revised later in an attempt at revisionist history as many of the current TM publications have been) talking about a mass effect caused by the TM-Sidhi program, and in particular using the term Maharishi Effect, I think my point has been made. Which is that the ME is a made-up term that was late to the party, invented *long* after the TMSP had been invented and had already been marketed for other reasons for years. My broader point is
[FairfieldLife] Send the Koch brothers to Mars
They are a aligned with Monsanto to get a bill passed in Congress to make it illegal for states to mandate GMO labeling. We don't need these stinkin' landed gentry. Let's send them to Mars. http://rt.com/usa/gmo-labeling-koch-monsanto-249/ PS: Nabby should note the crop circle at the top of the news story.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
Maharishi was more modern than those 50 years younger, always moving forward, showing infinite flexibility. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : As much as people want to dump on Maharishi as being some secreted ultra-traditional nationalistic hindoo-ist, the record shows they guy to be quite a modern and spiritual human. He was incredibly consistent looking at the whole progression as science, spirituality in consciousness, and policy as the larger spiritual movement built through a span of time and developed to what we see. -Buck Anartaxius writes: Buck, Maharishi did a lot of interesting things. In the world of science, however, it is data and confirmation of hypotheses that drive forward. A scientist that has a successful career is basically working to extend knowledge, and does so by superseding, by surpassing his mentors, and in science that means showing what your mentors did was in some way wrong, and that the newer knowledge is less wrong (still might not be right though). The question here is does TM and its related things accomplish what it is said to do? Does it work uniformly or non-uniformly on those who practise it? What percentage of practitioners truly reach the stated goals? How good is the data? Was the data processed properly? I think the results, which were eventually good for me, are nonetheless very uneven, and essentially, because movement science is largely ignored by the wider community, unproved. Once the Heidelberg color presses were purchased [early 1970's] Maharishi published in cycle through the decades major volumes that he edited that show the progression of the science, thought, and programs. It was all for linking modern science research in spirituality. He was remarkably progressive, visionary and revolutionary all at once. I feel you guys should respect him more as the rishi, teacher, and scientist he was. -Buck Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. I am not. I was there, and was on one of the first TM Sidhi courses, *while working at the TM National Center*, so I am pretty aware of how these courses were marketed and what was said about them at that time. There was NO MENTION of any group effect from the TM Sidhis before I left the TM movement in 1978. Any mention of the Maharishi Effect in the original 1976 Collected Papers was added later, in editions that had been subjected to revisionist history. The term hadn't even been *invented* in 1976. If you think differently, prove it. Otherwise I have the right to consider you as delusional as I often do anyway. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn. The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on courses and conferences as the early 1970's research was being published in a sequence. You guys obviously were not there. -Buck mjackson74 writes: I have never seen that article before - give great historical perspective - especially the comment that they expected several thousand sidha permanently in Fairfield - guess they got that one wrong - also love the comment about Marshy's stretch limo. On Fri, 4/4/14, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com; FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 10:25 AM Anticipating comments from cult apologist masters disputing this, and claiming that the idea of the Maharishi Effect has been present since 1960, I challenge you to come up with a mention of the Maharishi Effect *per se* in *any* publication before 1978 (the years covered by my account below), and applying to the TMSP *per se*, not just to total numbers of people practicing TM, or the old 1% of the population idea. The earliest mention of any group effect I could find after a few rounds with Google's Advanced News Search page was this article from 1984, and that only mentioned the buzzword in effect at the time, super-radiance effect -- The Maharishi Wants Everybody to Levitate for Peace, but Some Iowans Are Hopping Mad Unless you can find a publication before 1978 with a verifiable date (meaning *not* revised later in an attempt at revisionist history as many of the current TM publications have been) talking about a mass effect caused by the TM-Sidhi program, and in particular using the term Maharishi Effect, I think my point has been made. Which is that the
[FairfieldLife] Marshy
Nice write up: Maharishi inspired Beatles but died leaving £2b and rape rumours The Mirror, UK/February 7, 2008 By Nick Webster He inspired the Beatles and promised world peace but died leaving £2 billion amid rumours of rape and murder He was the Sixth Beatle, a spiritual force with the potential to create world peace and end famine. Or he was an avaricious old man with a penchant for young girls who ruined the greatest pop group in history. It rather depends on your point of view, but one thing is certain about the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who died this week aged somewhere between 91 and 97 - he was one of the richest religious leaders in history. The 'giggling guru' - so called because of his high-pitched laugh - lived in an opulent 200-room mansion, with helicopters and dozens of cars at his disposal, and was worth an estimated £2billion. He was the head of a movement with five million followers worldwide, all seeking a higher consciousness through transcendental meditation. But while the Maharishi promised world peace, and cynics laughed at his wacky teachings and yogic flying, sinister stories of sex, debauchery, and even murder cast dark shadows over his life. All but one of the Beatles cut their ties with their apparently celibate guru after it emerged he'd made a pass at Mia Farrow. The Maharishi's people, on the other hand, insist they simply fell out when he discovered the band were using LSD. Later another British disciple, Linda Pearce claimed the Maharishi had seduced her when he was in his 60s. He was a brilliant manipulator, said Mrs Pearce. I just couldn't see that he was a dirty old man. We made love regularly. At one stage I even thought I was pregnant by him. And I don't think I was the only girl. There was a lot of talk that he'd tried to rape Mia Farrow. And there was worse scandal to come. In 1987, when the Maharishi was living in a high security complex on the outskirts of Delhi, India, the Telegraph newspaper of Calcutta alleged five boys had died after being used as guinea pigs in the ashram's medical institute searching for cures for cancer, heart ailments and Aids. Nothing was ever proved. At the same time the fabulously wealthy guru's employees went on strike to increase their £10-a-month wages. The Maharishi simply moved into a five-star hotel in New Delhi until it was over. Mahesh Prasad Varma (or Mahesh Srivastava, depending on your source) was born in the Indian state of Madhya Pradesh, sometime between 1911 and 1918. The son of a government tax inspector, he initially studied physics but then trained with a Vedic spiritual mentor, undertaking two years of silence in the Himalayas where he developed his ideas on transcendental meditation. The movement the Maharishi leaves behind, after his death at his luxurious retreat in Vlodrop in the Netherlands, has been called the world's richest cult. Yet when he began his first world tour as a spiritual leader in Burma in 1958, the Maharishi was praised for his austerity. One commentator wrote: He asks for nothing. His worldly possessions can be carried in one hand. Meeting the Beatles a decade later changed all that. The band had been encouraged to attend a lecture by George Harrison's wife Patti, and were impressed enough by what they heard to accompany him to a weekend retreat in to North Wales. Along with Mick Jagger and Marianne Faithfull, they took the train to Bangor - where the Maharishi assumed the mob of screaming fans were there for him. Only a day into the retreat the news broke that the Beatles influential manager Brian Epstein had died from a suspected drugs overdose. Rather than let them grieve for their friend and first mentor, the Maharishi told them their tears would cause vibrations which could trap Epstein's spirit on this spiritual plane rather than let it travel to the next. And he instructed them to be joyful and laugh. Months later all four Beatles, their partners and 60s stars Donovan, Mike Love of the Beach Boys, and Mia Farrow and her sister Prudence headed off for a three-month retreat to the Maharishi's centre on the banks of the Ganges. Funded by a tithe of one week's wages from each of its students, the bank balance of the ashram received a massive boost from the world's biggest pop stars. They expected to find spiritual enlightenment, but what they actually found was what Ringo called a bit like Butlins. He and his then wife Maureen left after a fortnight, desperate for egg and chips. Paul McCartney and his girlfriend Jane Asher quit too. Then came the stories of the Maharishi's attempt to have sex with Mia Farrow. John Lennon said later: There was a hullabaloo about him trying to rape Mia and a few other women. The whole gang charged down to his hut and I said: 'We're leaving!' He asked why and I said: 'If you're so cosmic, you'll know why.' The Maharishi gave me a look that said: 'I'll kill you, you bastard!' But none of this
[FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy
Ah, yes, so objective, so accurate, so balanced. Right, Michael? Nice write up: Maharishi inspired Beatles but died leaving £2b and rape rumours The Mirror, UK/February 7, 2008 By Nick Webster He inspired the Beatles and promised world peace but died leaving £2 billion amid rumours of rape and murder He was the Sixth Beatle, a spiritual force with the potential to create world peace and end famine. Or he was an avaricious old man with a penchant for young girls who ruined the greatest pop group in history. It rather depends on your point of view, but one thing is certain about the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who died this week aged somewhere between 91 and 97 - he was one of the richest religious leaders in history. The 'giggling guru' - so called because of his high-pitched laugh - lived in an opulent 200-room mansion, with helicopters and dozens of cars at his disposal, and was worth an estimated £2billion. He was the head of a movement with five million followers worldwide, all seeking a higher consciousness through transcendental meditation. But while the Maharishi promised world peace, and cynics laughed at his wacky teachings and yogic flying, sinister stories of sex, debauchery, and even murder cast dark shadows over his life. All but one of the Beatles cut their ties with their apparently celibate guru after it emerged he'd made a pass at Mia Farrow. The Maharishi's people, on the other hand, insist they simply fell out when he discovered the band were using LSD. Later another British disciple, Linda Pearce claimed the Maharishi had seduced her when he was in his 60s. He was a brilliant manipulator, said Mrs Pearce. I just couldn't see that he was a dirty old man. We made love regularly. At one stage I even thought I was pregnant by him. And I don't think I was the only girl. There was a lot of talk that he'd tried to rape Mia Farrow. And there was worse scandal to come. In 1987, when the Maharishi was living in a high security complex on the outskirts of Delhi, India, the Telegraph newspaper of Calcutta alleged five boys had died after being used as guinea pigs in the ashram's medical institute searching for cures for cancer, heart ailments and Aids. Nothing was ever proved. At the same time the fabulously wealthy guru's employees went on strike to increase their £10-a-month wages. The Maharishi simply moved into a five-star hotel in New Delhi until it was over. Mahesh Prasad Varma (or Mahesh Srivastava, depending on your source) was born in the Indian state of Madhya Pradesh, sometime between 1911 and 1918. The son of a government tax inspector, he initially studied physics but then trained with a Vedic spiritual mentor, undertaking two years of silence in the Himalayas where he developed his ideas on transcendental meditation. The movement the Maharishi leaves behind, after his death at his luxurious retreat in Vlodrop in the Netherlands, has been called the world's richest cult. Yet when he began his first world tour as a spiritual leader in Burma in 1958, the Maharishi was praised for his austerity. One commentator wrote: He asks for nothing. His worldly possessions can be carried in one hand. Meeting the Beatles a decade later changed all that. The band had been encouraged to attend a lecture by George Harrison's wife Patti, and were impressed enough by what they heard to accompany him to a weekend retreat in to North Wales. Along with Mick Jagger and Marianne Faithfull, they took the train to Bangor - where the Maharishi assumed the mob of screaming fans were there for him. Only a day into the retreat the news broke that the Beatles influential manager Brian Epstein had died from a suspected drugs overdose. Rather than let them grieve for their friend and first mentor, the Maharishi told them their tears would cause vibrations which could trap Epstein's spirit on this spiritual plane rather than let it travel to the next. And he instructed them to be joyful and laugh. Months later all four Beatles, their partners and 60s stars Donovan, Mike Love of the Beach Boys, and Mia Farrow and her sister Prudence headed off for a three-month retreat to the Maharishi's centre on the banks of the Ganges. Funded by a tithe of one week's wages from each of its students, the bank balance of the ashram received a massive boost from the world's biggest pop stars. They expected to find spiritual enlightenment, but what they actually found was what Ringo called a bit like Butlins. He and his then wife Maureen left after a fortnight, desperate for egg and chips. Paul McCartney and his girlfriend Jane Asher quit too. Then came the stories of the Maharishi's attempt to have sex with Mia Farrow. John Lennon said later: There was a hullabaloo about him trying to rape Mia and a few other women. The whole gang charged down to his hut and I said: 'We're leaving!' He asked why and I said: 'If
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
Maharishi showed a lot of creativity in marketing TM. I recall reading an article by a sociologist (I think) in the 'Skeptical Inquirer' about TM mentioning how he completely changed the image of the movement from your basic Hindu/Vedic base virtually over night by introducing new language, science. I think he was fearless in trying things and also dropping things that did not work. He did not succeed in erasing the Hindu connexions, and I suspect many followers did not like the change to the new terminology (Charles Lutes for example), and that might be a reason why it has acted more as a drag on the movement than it could have, however the Hindu core of teaching, the puja etc., makes it difficult to cover that up. This is what is called isomorphism, translating concepts from one set of intellectual symbols to another. Maharishi was particularly good at that. Translating spiritual concepts to science is a dangerous game because science requires a higher standard of belief, and the lax approach to evidence in religion and spirituality in general is a great handicap. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Maharishi was more modern than those 50 years younger, always moving forward, showing infinite flexibility. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : As much as people want to dump on Maharishi as being some secreted ultra-traditional nationalistic hindoo-ist, the record shows they guy to be quite a modern and spiritual human. He was incredibly consistent looking at the whole progression as science, spirituality in consciousness, and policy as the larger spiritual movement built through a span of time and developed to what we see. -Buck Anartaxius writes: Buck, Maharishi did a lot of interesting things. In the world of science, however, it is data and confirmation of hypotheses that drive forward. A scientist that has a successful career is basically working to extend knowledge, and does so by superseding, by surpassing his mentors, and in science that means showing what your mentors did was in some way wrong, and that the newer knowledge is less wrong (still might not be right though). The question here is does TM and its related things accomplish what it is said to do? Does it work uniformly or non-uniformly on those who practise it? What percentage of practitioners truly reach the stated goals? How good is the data? Was the data processed properly? I think the results, which were eventually good for me, are nonetheless very uneven, and essentially, because movement science is largely ignored by the wider community, unproved. Once the Heidelberg color presses were purchased [early 1970's] Maharishi published in cycle through the decades major volumes that he edited that show the progression of the science, thought, and programs. It was all for linking modern science research in spirituality. He was remarkably progressive, visionary and revolutionary all at once. I feel you guys should respect him more as the rishi, teacher, and scientist he was. -Buck Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. I am not. I was there, and was on one of the first TM Sidhi courses, *while working at the TM National Center*, so I am pretty aware of how these courses were marketed and what was said about them at that time. There was NO MENTION of any group effect from the TM Sidhis before I left the TM movement in 1978. Any mention of the Maharishi Effect in the original 1976 Collected Papers was added later, in editions that had been subjected to revisionist history. The term hadn't even been *invented* in 1976. If you think differently, prove it. Otherwise I have the right to consider you as delusional as I often do anyway. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn. The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on courses and conferences as the early 1970's research was being published in a sequence. You guys obviously were not there. -Buck mjackson74 writes: I have never seen that article before - give great historical perspective - especially the comment that they expected several thousand sidha permanently in Fairfield - guess they got that one wrong - also love the comment about Marshy's stretch limo. On Fri, 4/4/14, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com; FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
you only say that cause you never went to the Deep South and encountered any dirt eaters (also known as clay eaters) On Fri, 4/4/14, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 3:42 PM ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Thank you for these beautiful points, Ann. Now I'll do the Libra thing and mention how ancient people would eat various body parts of slain enemies to ingest their courage, etc. Go figure! Exactly my point. No one would ingest something they either didn't love or want to embody an aspect of. Actually eating something is a pretty potent indication or symbol of just that. (Of course I am not talking about food here.)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
Umm, forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by his time with Saraswati? this is the first I have heard of it. On Fri, 4/4/14, anartax...@yahoo.com anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 3:49 PM I recall the marketing for the TM-Sidhi programme and it was pretty much as Barry has said. I found the following on the MUM website (*emphasis added*): The World Peace Project *Immediately following the discovery of the Super-Radiance effect in the Fall off 1978*, Maharishi decided to apply it to resolve conflicts in the international arena. More than 1400 experts in the Transcendental Meditation and TM-Sidhi program were sent for approximately two months (November and December, 1978) to several trouble spots of the world, including Central America (Nicaragua), the Middle East (Lebanon), Southern Africa (Rhodesia-Zimbabwe) and Zambia), and to Southeast Asia (Cambodia) as well as to surrounding countries. (the portion I quoted is about halfway down the page) Therefore it seems extremely unlikely that the Sidhi programme was marketed as a group phenomenon prior to this time. I knew several of the governors who went off on those excursions from New York. The marketing before that was all super powers and faster evolution. I was told the movement wanted to get rights to use the Superman comic book character to advertise, but was refused. From a scientific view, 'discovery' is premature, for from a scientific point of view, the jury on this concept has not even yet been convened, as the science has not been confirmed outside movement sources, and is thus ignored outside the meditator community except as a news item from time to time. This brings up an interesting question for me. I have observed that most people who enter into spiritual circles tend to bring with them a number of supersitions, and spiritual movements tend to be a hot bed of superstitious ideas. People within the TM fold seem to hold all sorts of ideas about reality that are not part of the TM canon. What was Maharishi like when he entered into his spiritual circle, what sort of ideas did he have, how did he understand the world prior and during and after his time with Saraswati? Most people seem to change ideas rather slowly except during religious conversion, or sometimes in the face of overwhelming evidence. My hypothesis is the tendency to be superstitious persists while meditating or even doing hard science. So my question is how much nonsense did Maharishi inherit and eventually pass on to us? In addition there are other behavioural features of belief systems. In the classic study 'When Prophesy Fails' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails) believers that expected certain events to occur had those hopes dashed, but interestingly, before the failure they were very secretive about their beliefs, but after the failure they went into proselytising mode, trying to get many more into their mode of belief. This is a bizarre conclusion considering the evidence that the ideas simply totally failed, but human nature is not strictly rational. This seems to be the mental characteristic of spiritual movements whose predictions did not come to pass, that it does not matter if what was said is not true. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. I am not. I was there, and was on one of the first TM Sidhi courses, *while working at the TM National Center*, so I am pretty aware of how these courses were marketed and what was said about them at that time. There was NO MENTION of any group effect from the TM Sidhis before I left the TM movement in 1978. Any mention of the Maharishi Effect in the original 1976 Collected Papers was added later, in editions that had been subjected to revisionist history. The term hadn't even been *invented* in 1976. If you think differently, prove it. Otherwise I have the right to consider you as delusional as I often do anyway. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn.The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on
Re: [FairfieldLife] Send the Koch brothers to Mars
noozguru, I guess the Koch brothers are worried that if GMO labeling becomes mandatory, their fortune will decrease from 100 billion to 99 billion! Poor babies )-: On Friday, April 4, 2014 11:30 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: They are a aligned with Monsanto to get a bill passed in Congress to make it illegal for states to mandate GMO labeling. We don't need these stinkin' landed gentry. Let's send them to Mars. http://rt.com/usa/gmo-labeling-koch-monsanto-249/ PS: Nabby should note the crop circle at the top of the news story.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
Actually, the term Maharishi Effect was invented in 1974, to refer to the 1 percent effect in the cities studied by Borland and Landrith (that's paper 98 in Volume 1 of the Collected Papers--the first edition--that Buck refers to below). Maharishi had predicted it a decade previously. For awhile Super-Radiance Effect was used to refer to the parallel effect with the TMSP to distinguish it from the 1 percent effect, but eventually Maharishi Effect began to be used for both. Also, I seriously doubt that it was ever said that the TMSP didn't work properly unless done in a group. I certainly never heard that. It was said that it worked better in a group, even a very small group (e.g., of two or three people), but it was still very much worth doing solo. Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. I am not. I was there, and was on one of the first TM Sidhi courses, *while working at the TM National Center*, so I am pretty aware of how these courses were marketed and what was said about them at that time. There was NO MENTION of any group effect from the TM Sidhis before I left the TM movement in 1978. Any mention of the Maharishi Effect in the original 1976 Collected Papers was added later, in editions that had been subjected to revisionist history. The term hadn't even been *invented* in 1976. If you think differently, prove it. Otherwise I have the right to consider you as delusional as I often do anyway. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn. The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on courses and conferences as the early 1970's research was being published in a sequence. You guys obviously were not there. -Buck mjackson74 writes: I have never seen that article before - give great historical perspective - especially the comment that they expected several thousand sidha permanently in Fairfield - guess they got that one wrong - also love the comment about Marshy's stretch limo. On Fri, 4/4/14, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com; FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 10:25 AM Anticipating comments from cult apologist masters disputing this, and claiming that the idea of the Maharishi Effect has been present since 1960, I challenge you to come up with a mention of the Maharishi Effect *per se* in *any* publication before 1978 (the years covered by my account below), and applying to the TMSP *per se*, not just to total numbers of people practicing TM, or the old 1% of the population idea. The earliest mention of any group effect I could find after a few rounds with Google's Advanced News Search page was this article from 1984, and that only mentioned the buzzword in effect at the time, super-radiance effect -- The Maharishi Wants Everybody to Levitate for Peace, but Some Iowans Are Hopping Mad Unless you can find a publication before 1978 with a verifiable date (meaning *not* revised later in an attempt at revisionist history as many of the current TM publications have been) talking about a mass effect caused by the TM-Sidhi program, and in particular using the term Maharishi Effect, I think my point has been made. Which is that the ME is a made-up term that was late to the party, invented *long* after the TMSP had been invented and had already been marketed for other reasons for years. My broader point is that some TM apologists have been so trained to perform revisionist history in their own brains that they'll claim it was present at the beginning of the TMSP program, *even though they themselves weren't*. Besides, the old 1984 People article is pretty funny, given the current state of Fairfield and the fact that the TMO can't find people to bounce around in the domes even when they PAY them to do so... :-) From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com; FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com; FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
Bucky, I do give the Old Goat ALL the respect he actually deserves and that's a fact. On Fri, 4/4/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 3:57 PM Once the Heidelberg color presses were purchased [early 1970's] Maharishi published in cycle through the decades major volumes that he edited that show the progression of the science, thought, and programs. It was all for linking modern science research in spirituality. He was remarkably progressive, visionary and revolutionary all at once. I feel you guys should respect him more as the rishi, teacher, and scientist he was. -Buck Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. I am not. I was there, and was on one of the first TM Sidhi courses, *while working at the TM National Center*, so I am pretty aware of how these courses were marketed and what was said about them at that time. There was NO MENTION of any group effect from the TM Sidhis before I left the TM movement in 1978. Any mention of the Maharishi Effect in the original 1976 Collected Papers was added later, in editions that had been subjected to revisionist history. The term hadn't even been *invented* in 1976. If you think differently, prove it. Otherwise I have the right to consider you as delusional as I often do anyway. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn.The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on courses and conferences as the early 1970's research was being published in a sequence. You guys obviously were not there.-Buck mjackson74 writes: I have never seen that article before - give great historical perspective - especially the comment that they expected several thousand sidha permanently in Fairfield - guess they got that one wrong - also love the comment about Marshy's stretch limo. On Fri, 4/4/14, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 10:25 AM Anticipating comments from cult apologist masters disputing this, and claiming that the idea of the Maharishi Effect has been present since 1960, I challenge you to come up with a mention of the Maharishi Effect *per se* in *any* publication before 1978 (the years covered by my account below), and applying to the TMSP *per se*, not just to total numbers of people practicing TM, or the old 1% of the population idea. The earliest mention of any group effect I could find after a few rounds with Google's Advanced News Search page was this article from 1984, and that only mentioned the buzzword in effect at the time, super-radiance effect -- The Maharishi Wants Everybody to Levitate for Peace, but Some Iowans Are Hopping Mad Unless you can find a publication before 1978 with a verifiable date (meaning *not* revised later in an attempt at revisionist history as many of the current TM publications have been) talking about a mass effect caused by the TM-Sidhi program, and in particular using the term Maharishi Effect, I think my point has been made. Which is that the ME is a made-up term that was late to the party, invented *long* after the TMSP had been invented and had already been marketed for other reasons for years. My broader point is that some TM apologists have been so trained to perform revisionist history in their own brains that they'll claim it was present at the beginning of the TMSP program, *even though they themselves weren't*. Besides, the old 1984 People article is pretty funny, given the current state of Fairfield and the fact that the TMO can't find people to bounce around in the domes even when they PAY them to do so... :-) From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
God Amighty! He wasn't even a regular Hindu! Show me anywhere in the Hindu religion where it is taught that soma is a substance created in the human digestive system that is eaten by the Hindu gods in exchange for favors!?! He was a Hindu fanatic, and a very superstitious one at that. Plus I bet that box of do not watch tapes Sal once had his hands on had a copy of some of those tapes of M praising Hitler - wheee! On Fri, 4/4/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 4:26 PM As much as people want to dump on Maharishi as being some secreted ultra-traditional nationalistic hindoo-ist, the record shows they guy to be quite a modern and spiritual human. He was incredibly consistent looking at the whole progression as science, spirituality in consciousness, and policy as the larger spiritual movement built through a span of time and developed to what we see.-Buck Anartaxius writes: Buck, Maharishi did a lot of interesting things. In the world of science, however, it is data and confirmation of hypotheses that drive forward. A scientist that has a successful career is basically working to extend knowledge, and does so by superseding, by surpassing his mentors, and in science that means showing what your mentors did was in some way wrong, and that the newer knowledge is less wrong (still might not be right though). The question here is does TM and its related things accomplish what it is said to do? Does it work uniformly or non-uniformly on those who practise it? What percentage of practitioners truly reach the stated goals? How good is the data? Was the data processed properly? I think the results, which were eventually good for me, are nonetheless very uneven, and essentially, because movement science is largely ignored by the wider community, unproved. Once the Heidelberg color presses were purchased [early 1970's] Maharishi published in cycle through the decades major volumes that he edited that show the progression of the science, thought, and programs. It was all for linking modern science research in spirituality. He was remarkably progressive, visionary and revolutionary all at once. I feel you guys should respect him more as the rishi, teacher, and scientist he was.-Buck Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. I am not. I was there, and was on one of the first TM Sidhi courses, *while working at the TM National Center*, so I am pretty aware of how these courses were marketed and what was said about them at that time. There was NO MENTION of any group effect from the TM Sidhis before I left the TM movement in 1978. Any mention of the Maharishi Effect in the original 1976 Collected Papers was added later, in editions that had been subjected to revisionist history. The term hadn't even been *invented* in 1976. If you think differently, prove it. Otherwise I have the right to consider you as delusional as I often do anyway. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn.The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on courses and conferences as the early 1970's research was being published in a sequence. You guys obviously were not there.-Buck mjackson74 writes: I have never seen that article before - give great historical perspective - especially the comment that they expected several thousand sidha permanently in Fairfield - guess they got that one wrong - also love the comment about Marshy's stretch limo. On Fri, 4/4/14, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 10:25 AM Anticipating comments from cult apologist masters disputing this, and claiming that the idea of the Maharishi Effect has been present since 1960, I challenge you to come up with a mention of the Maharishi Effect *per se* in *any* publication before 1978 (the years covered by my account below), and applying to the TMSP *per se*, not just to total numbers of people practicing TM, or the old 1% of the population idea. The earliest mention of any group effect I could find after a few rounds with Google's Advanced News
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy
its not a suck up to the movement if that's what you mean - fairly objective from a non-TM journalists point of view, yes. You need to remember that those who have never done TM and have no reason to do so are not going to be wowed by all the bull crap claims, especially if they have any common sense, which this writer certainly seems to have. On Fri, 4/4/14, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 4:54 PM Ah, yes, so objective, so accurate, so balanced. Right, Michael? Nice write up: Maharishi inspired Beatles but died leaving £2b and rape rumours The Mirror, UK/February 7, 2008 By Nick Webster He inspired the Beatles and promised world peace but died leaving £2 billion amid rumours of rape and murder He was the Sixth Beatle, a spiritual force with the potential to create world peace and end famine. Or he was an avaricious old man with a penchant for young girls who ruined the greatest pop group in history. It rather depends on your point of view, but one thing is certain about the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who died this week aged somewhere between 91 and 97 - he was one of the richest religious leaders in history. The 'giggling guru' - so called because of his high-pitched laugh - lived in an opulent 200-room mansion, with helicopters and dozens of cars at his disposal, and was worth an estimated £2billion. He was the head of a movement with five million followers worldwide, all seeking a higher consciousness through transcendental meditation. But while the Maharishi promised world peace, and cynics laughed at his wacky teachings and yogic flying, sinister stories of sex, debauchery, and even murder cast dark shadows over his life. All but one of the Beatles cut their ties with their apparently celibate guru after it emerged he'd made a pass at Mia Farrow. The Maharishi's people, on the other hand, insist they simply fell out when he discovered the band were using LSD. Later another British disciple, Linda Pearce claimed the Maharishi had seduced her when he was in his 60s. He was a brilliant manipulator, said Mrs Pearce. I just couldn't see that he was a dirty old man. We made love regularly. At one stage I even thought I was pregnant by him. And I don't think I was the only girl. There was a lot of talk that he'd tried to rape Mia Farrow. And there was worse scandal to come. In 1987, when the Maharishi was living in a high security complex on the outskirts of Delhi, India, the Telegraph newspaper of Calcutta alleged five boys had died after being used as guinea pigs in the ashram's medical institute searching for cures for cancer, heart ailments and Aids. Nothing was ever proved. At the same time the fabulously wealthy guru's employees went on strike to increase their £10-a-month wages. The Maharishi simply moved into a five-star hotel in New Delhi until it was over. Mahesh Prasad Varma (or Mahesh Srivastava, depending on your source) was born in the Indian state of Madhya Pradesh, sometime between 1911 and 1918. The son of a government tax inspector, he initially studied physics but then trained with a Vedic spiritual mentor, undertaking two years of silence in the Himalayas where he developed his ideas on transcendental meditation. The movement the Maharishi leaves behind, after his death at his luxurious retreat in Vlodrop in the Netherlands, has been called the world's richest cult. Yet when he began his first world tour as a spiritual leader in Burma in 1958, the Maharishi was praised for his austerity. One commentator wrote: He asks for nothing. His worldly possessions can be carried in one hand. Meeting the Beatles a decade later changed all that. The band had been encouraged to attend a lecture by George Harrison's wife Patti, and were impressed enough by what they heard to accompany him to a weekend retreat in to North Wales. Along with Mick Jagger and Marianne Faithfull, they took the train to Bangor - where the Maharishi assumed the mob of screaming fans were there for him. Only a day into the retreat the news broke that the Beatles influential manager Brian Epstein had died from a suspected drugs overdose. Rather than let them grieve for their friend and first mentor, the Maharishi told them their tears would cause vibrations which could trap Epstein's spirit on this spiritual plane rather than let it travel to the next. And he instructed them to be joyful and laugh. Months later all four Beatles, their partners and 60s stars Donovan, Mike Love of the Beach Boys, and Mia Farrow and her sister Prudence headed off for a three-month retreat to
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
The woman who got TM kicked out of her son's high school is a practicing Hindu, tho she is not Indian. She told me the other day that Marshy's superstitious crap he taught like the humans as a buffet line for soma eating Hindu gods really rubs Hindus the wrong way. And her Hindu friends who were born in India feel the same way she says. On Fri, 4/4/14, anartax...@yahoo.com anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 4:59 PM Maharishi showed a lot of creativity in marketing TM. I recall reading an article by a sociologist (I think) in the 'Skeptical Inquirer' about TM mentioning how he completely changed the image of the movement from your basic Hindu/Vedic base virtually over night by introducing new language, science. I think he was fearless in trying things and also dropping things that did not work. He did not succeed in erasing the Hindu connexions, and I suspect many followers did not like the change to the new terminology (Charles Lutes for example), and that might be a reason why it has acted more as a drag on the movement than it could have, however the Hindu core of teaching, the puja etc., makes it difficult to cover that up. This is what is called isomorphism, translating concepts from one set of intellectual symbols to another. Maharishi was particularly good at that. Translating spiritual concepts to science is a dangerous game because science requires a higher standard of belief, and the lax approach to evidence in religion and spirituality in general is a great handicap. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Maharishi was more modern than those 50 years younger, always moving forward, showing infinite flexibility. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : As much as people want to dump on Maharishi as being some secreted ultra-traditional nationalistic hindoo-ist, the record shows they guy to be quite a modern and spiritual human. He was incredibly consistent looking at the whole progression as science, spirituality in consciousness, and policy as the larger spiritual movement built through a span of time and developed to what we see.-Buck Anartaxius writes: Buck, Maharishi did a lot of interesting things. In the world of science, however, it is data and confirmation of hypotheses that drive forward. A scientist that has a successful career is basically working to extend knowledge, and does so by superseding, by surpassing his mentors, and in science that means showing what your mentors did was in some way wrong, and that the newer knowledge is less wrong (still might not be right though). The question here is does TM and its related things accomplish what it is said to do? Does it work uniformly or non-uniformly on those who practise it? What percentage of practitioners truly reach the stated goals? How good is the data? Was the data processed properly? I think the results, which were eventually good for me, are nonetheless very uneven, and essentially, because movement science is largely ignored by the wider community, unproved. Once the Heidelberg color presses were purchased [early 1970's] Maharishi published in cycle through the decades major volumes that he edited that show the progression of the science, thought, and programs. It was all for linking modern science research in spirituality. He was remarkably progressive, visionary and revolutionary all at once. I feel you guys should respect him more as the rishi, teacher, and scientist he was.-Buck Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. I am not. I was there, and was on one of the first TM Sidhi courses, *while working at the TM National Center*, so I am pretty aware of how these courses were marketed and what was said about them at that time. There was NO MENTION of any group effect from the TM Sidhis before I left the TM movement in 1978. Any mention of the Maharishi Effect in the original 1976 Collected Papers was added later, in editions that had been subjected to revisionist history. The term hadn't even been *invented* in 1976. If you think differently, prove it. Otherwise I have the right to consider you as delusional as I often do anyway. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn.The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on courses
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy
I wasn't referring to any of the TMO's claims, Michael. its not a suck up to the movement if that's what you mean - fairly objective from a non-TM journalists point of view, yes. You need to remember that those who have never done TM and have no reason to do so are not going to be wowed by all the bull crap claims, especially if they have any common sense, which this writer certainly seems to have. On Fri, 4/4/14, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 4:54 PM Ah, yes, so objective, so accurate, so balanced. Right, Michael? Nice write up: Maharishi inspired Beatles but died leaving £2b and rape rumours The Mirror, UK/February 7, 2008 By Nick Webster He inspired the Beatles and promised world peace but died leaving £2 billion amid rumours of rape and murder He was the Sixth Beatle, a spiritual force with the potential to create world peace and end famine. Or he was an avaricious old man with a penchant for young girls who ruined the greatest pop group in history. It rather depends on your point of view, but one thing is certain about the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who died this week aged somewhere between 91 and 97 - he was one of the richest religious leaders in history. The 'giggling guru' - so called because of his high-pitched laugh - lived in an opulent 200-room mansion, with helicopters and dozens of cars at his disposal, and was worth an estimated £2billion. He was the head of a movement with five million followers worldwide, all seeking a higher consciousness through transcendental meditation. But while the Maharishi promised world peace, and cynics laughed at his wacky teachings and yogic flying, sinister stories of sex, debauchery, and even murder cast dark shadows over his life. All but one of the Beatles cut their ties with their apparently celibate guru after it emerged he'd made a pass at Mia Farrow. The Maharishi's people, on the other hand, insist they simply fell out when he discovered the band were using LSD. Later another British disciple, Linda Pearce claimed the Maharishi had seduced her when he was in his 60s. He was a brilliant manipulator, said Mrs Pearce. I just couldn't see that he was a dirty old man. We made love regularly. At one stage I even thought I was pregnant by him. And I don't think I was the only girl. There was a lot of talk that he'd tried to rape Mia Farrow. And there was worse scandal to come. In 1987, when the Maharishi was living in a high security complex on the outskirts of Delhi, India, the Telegraph newspaper of Calcutta alleged five boys had died after being used as guinea pigs in the ashram's medical institute searching for cures for cancer, heart ailments and Aids. Nothing was ever proved. At the same time the fabulously wealthy guru's employees went on strike to increase their £10-a-month wages. The Maharishi simply moved into a five-star hotel in New Delhi until it was over. Mahesh Prasad Varma (or Mahesh Srivastava, depending on your source) was born in the Indian state of Madhya Pradesh, sometime between 1911 and 1918. The son of a government tax inspector, he initially studied physics but then trained with a Vedic spiritual mentor, undertaking two years of silence in the Himalayas where he developed his ideas on transcendental meditation. The movement the Maharishi leaves behind, after his death at his luxurious retreat in Vlodrop in the Netherlands, has been called the world's richest cult. Yet when he began his first world tour as a spiritual leader in Burma in 1958, the Maharishi was praised for his austerity. One commentator wrote: He asks for nothing. His worldly possessions can be carried in one hand. Meeting the Beatles a decade later changed all that. The band had been encouraged to attend a lecture by George Harrison's wife Patti, and were impressed enough by what they heard to accompany him to a weekend retreat in to North Wales. Along with Mick Jagger and Marianne Faithfull, they took the train to Bangor - where the Maharishi assumed the mob of screaming fans were there for him. Only a day into the retreat the news broke that the Beatles influential manager Brian Epstein had died from a suspected drugs overdose. Rather than let them grieve for their friend and first mentor, the Maharishi told them their tears would cause vibrations which could trap Epstein's spirit on this spiritual plane rather than let it travel to the next. And he instructed them to be joyful and laugh. Months later all four Beatles, their partners and 60s stars Donovan, Mike Love of the Beach Boys, and Mia Farrow and her
Re: [FairfieldLife] Send the Koch brothers to Mars
Send the Koch brothers to Mars Addressing the important issues! On 4/4/2014 11:30 AM, Bhairitu wrote: They are a aligned with Monsanto to get a bill passed in Congress to make it illegal for states to mandate GMO labeling. We don't need these stinkin' landed gentry. Let's send them to Mars. http://rt.com/usa/gmo-labeling-koch-monsanto-249/ PS: Nabby should note the crop circle at the top of the news story. Let's see, this must be the about sum total of what the Barry2 knows about the Koch brothers. LoL!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
Did any of her Hindu friends read the actual transcript or see the tape, or are they relying on Trancenet's unforgettable image of ravening Gods jostling each other to feed at the stomachs of TMers around the world to get their share of the mythical Soma or your humans as a buffet line for soma eating Hindu gods image? Or some other revolting image of her own devising? The woman who got TM kicked out of her son's high school is a practicing Hindu, tho she is not Indian. She told me the other day that Marshy's superstitious crap he taught like the humans as a buffet line for soma eating Hindu gods really rubs Hindus the wrong way. And her Hindu friends who were born in India feel the same way she says.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
Emily, I've heard that Libras like to show at least two opposite sides of an issue. And though I'm merely a Libra ascendent, I have that quality. As I said, the topic of humans and divinities ingesting one another is fascinating to me. Ingesting and tapping here (-: On Friday, April 4, 2014 11:17 AM, emilymae...@yahoo.com emilymae...@yahoo.com wrote: My apologies Share. I was just checking to see if my conscience was working. It is! I will refrain from posting to you. How was what you posted a Libra thang - did you mean that you were operating to balance? Was there a need for that? Rather, it was consistent with the overall theme of ingesting. I was balancing, by providing you with an alternative perspective on your unconscious MO. WAIT! Maybe this is it...I found this on the internet...Inside, the Libra is very insecure, they suffer from a lack of self confidence, they are always searching for something to complete them. Keep ingesting, Share. Love, Emily. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote : Corrected... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote : And yet, the word sacrifice bothers you. Share, in all your posts to Ann, you try to find a way to try and show that you are one upping her or, mostly, you work to throw dirty dish water on her points or treat the essence of what she says with contempt (even if you acknowledge her thoughts, as you did here). But, but, but...it is one of the reasons you can't hold a real conversation; one must be able to hold someone else's perspective and deal with it respectfully. You aren't doing the Libra thing here. Stop trying to figure - that might help. I have to leave for the day, so won't be able to reply to you. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Thank you for these beautiful points, Ann. Now I'll do the Libra thing and mention how ancient people would eat various body parts of slain enemies to ingest their courage, etc. Go figure! On Friday, April 4, 2014 9:05 AM, awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@... wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Share, I think you can find all manner of opinions about communion. I just mentioned that as one comment I once heard. As rituals go,it seems okay to me. Is it hurting anyone? Not that I can see. Does it bring people some measure of comfort, or spiritual upliftment? It seems to. There was a theoophist, C.W. Leadbetter, (yes, the same one MJ regularly castigates), who said that the whole ritual leading up to the communion involves angels creating a sort of celestial altar culminating in the actual communion. So, there's a comment on the other end of the spectrum. My wife and kids regularly get communion. Communion is an apt word. There are lots of ways of coming into contact or communion with a thing and many of them physical. Eating something or making love to someone places those entities, the subject, as close as you can get to really being inside yourself. This is a really good example of a willingness to hold that person or that thing as close to you as physically possible (being actually inside). So, it is a powerful image and a powerful show of willingness to be in total communion with a thing. Eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ is rather symbolic and not the same (for me) as eating the arm of my husband so I have no problem with the concept or actual practice of Holy Communion in the context of the Catholic Church (I am Catholic, although not practicing). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, I didn't know that about Communion, that some people think of it as cannabalism. I can see how they might think that. As for me, I've never been comfortable having some of the wine, which is allegedly become the blood of Christ. Maybe the early Christians morphed what Jesus did at the Last Supper to something more similar to what the pagans were doing. Similar to how they stole some of the pagan holidays. What I look forward to is when the huge field of neuroscience, psychoneuroendocrinology, etc. can provide some plausible explanations for some of our so called spiritual experiences. I mean, is the love of a mother for her newborn simply a chemical event precipitated by a huge increase in oxytocin?! On Thursday, April 3, 2014 4:39 PM, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: You know Share, some people compare it to cannibalism. I don't. I don't see anything wrong with it. As rituals go, it seems as good a one as any. I don't know if it was corrupted along the way somehow. It's been a while since I've read the Bible, but supposedly that's the way it played out at that Passover Supper. Not that it matters, but I think the new Pope is quite a breath of fresh air. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, one of the meta issues that
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy
From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy its not a suck up to the movement if that's what you mean - fairly objective from a non-TM journalists point of view, yes. You need to remember that those who have never done TM and have no reason to do so are not going to be wowed by all the bull crap claims, especially if they have any common sense, which this writer certainly seems to have. Pick *anyone* off the street and tell them that he taught that bouncing around on one's butt would create world peace, and they'd assume they were dealing with a lunatic. It's only people who got brainwashed over the years by accepting one small ludicrous idea after another who could be presented with such an obviously deranged idea and take it seriously.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
And, Nablusoss, Maharishi was always the visionary. IMHO it was genius on his part to have MUM establish exchange programs with universities in China. Wonderful to see so many young Chinese women in the Dome. On Friday, April 4, 2014 11:38 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Maharishi was more modern than those 50 years younger, always moving forward, showing infinite flexibility. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : As much as people want to dump on Maharishi as being some secreted ultra-traditional nationalistic hindoo-ist, the record shows they guy to be quite a modern and spiritual human. He was incredibly consistent looking at the whole progression as science, spirituality in consciousness, and policy as the larger spiritual movement built through a span of time and developed to what we see. -Buck Anartaxius writes: Buck, Maharishi did a lot of interesting things. In the world of science, however, it is data and confirmation of hypotheses that drive forward. A scientist that has a successful career is basically working to extend knowledge, and does so by superseding, by surpassing his mentors, and in science that means showing what your mentors did was in some way wrong, and that the newer knowledge is less wrong (still might not be right though). The question here is does TM and its related things accomplish what it is said to do? Does it work uniformly or non-uniformly on those who practise it? What percentage of practitioners truly reach the stated goals? How good is the data? Was the data processed properly? I think the results, which were eventually good for me, are nonetheless very uneven, and essentially, because movement science is largely ignored by the wider community, unproved. Once the Heidelberg color presses were purchased [early 1970's] Maharishi published in cycle through the decades major volumes that he edited that show the progression of the science, thought, and programs. It was all for linking modern science research in spirituality. He was remarkably progressive, visionary and revolutionary all at once. I feel you guys should respect him more as the rishi, teacher, and scientist he was. -Buck Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. I am not. I was there, and was on one of the first TM Sidhi courses, *while working at the TM National Center*, so I am pretty aware of how these courses were marketed and what was said about them at that time. There was NO MENTION of any group effect from the TM Sidhis before I left the TM movement in 1978. Any mention of the Maharishi Effect in the original 1976 Collected Papers was added later, in editions that had been subjected to revisionist history. The term hadn't even been *invented* in 1976. If you think differently, prove it. Otherwise I have the right to consider you as delusional as I often do anyway. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn.The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on courses and conferences as the early 1970's research was being published in a sequence. You guys obviously were not there. -Buck mjackson74 writes: I have never seen that article before - give great historical perspective - especially the comment that they expected several thousand sidha permanently in Fairfield - guess they got that one wrong - also love the comment about Marshy's stretch limo. On Fri, 4/4/14, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 10:25 AM Anticipating comments from cult apologist masters disputing this, and claiming that the idea of the Maharishi Effect has been present since 1960, I challenge you to come up with a mention of the Maharishi Effect *per se* in *any* publication before 1978 (the years covered by my account below), and applying to the TMSP *per se*, not just to total numbers of people practicing TM, or the old 1% of the population idea. The earliest mention of any group effect I could find after a few rounds with Google's Advanced News Search page was this article from 1984, and that only mentioned the buzzword in effect at the time, super-radiance effect -- The Maharishi Wants Everybody to Levitate for Peace, but Some Iowans Are Hopping Mad Unless you can find a publication before 1978 with a verifiable date (meaning *not* revised later in an attempt at revisionist history as many of the current TM publications have been) talking about a mass
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
Xeno, personally I'm glad that the TMO is now putting its resources into relieving suffering, such as with the street children in South America and combat stressed veterans rather than adding to the huge and existing body research on TM. On Friday, April 4, 2014 12:04 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: Maharishi showed a lot of creativity in marketing TM. I recall reading an article by a sociologist (I think) in the 'Skeptical Inquirer' about TM mentioning how he completely changed the image of the movement from your basic Hindu/Vedic base virtually over night by introducing new language, science. I think he was fearless in trying things and also dropping things that did not work. He did not succeed in erasing the Hindu connexions, and I suspect many followers did not like the change to the new terminology (Charles Lutes for example), and that might be a reason why it has acted more as a drag on the movement than it could have, however the Hindu core of teaching, the puja etc., makes it difficult to cover that up. This is what is called isomorphism, translating concepts from one set of intellectual symbols to another. Maharishi was particularly good at that. Translating spiritual concepts to science is a dangerous game because science requires a higher standard of belief, and the lax approach to evidence in religion and spirituality in general is a great handicap. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Maharishi was more modern than those 50 years younger, always moving forward, showing infinite flexibility. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : As much as people want to dump on Maharishi as being some secreted ultra-traditional nationalistic hindoo-ist, the record shows they guy to be quite a modern and spiritual human. He was incredibly consistent looking at the whole progression as science, spirituality in consciousness, and policy as the larger spiritual movement built through a span of time and developed to what we see. -Buck Anartaxius writes: Buck, Maharishi did a lot of interesting things. In the world of science, however, it is data and confirmation of hypotheses that drive forward. A scientist that has a successful career is basically working to extend knowledge, and does so by superseding, by surpassing his mentors, and in science that means showing what your mentors did was in some way wrong, and that the newer knowledge is less wrong (still might not be right though). The question here is does TM and its related things accomplish what it is said to do? Does it work uniformly or non-uniformly on those who practise it? What percentage of practitioners truly reach the stated goals? How good is the data? Was the data processed properly? I think the results, which were eventually good for me, are nonetheless very uneven, and essentially, because movement science is largely ignored by the wider community, unproved. Once the Heidelberg color presses were purchased [early 1970's] Maharishi published in cycle through the decades major volumes that he edited that show the progression of the science, thought, and programs. It was all for linking modern science research in spirituality. He was remarkably progressive, visionary and revolutionary all at once. I feel you guys should respect him more as the rishi, teacher, and scientist he was. -Buck Nope. Well, Turquoiseb is in error about his 1978 assertion and you are wrong for thinking he is right. I am not. I was there, and was on one of the first TM Sidhi courses, *while working at the TM National Center*, so I am pretty aware of how these courses were marketed and what was said about them at that time. There was NO MENTION of any group effect from the TM Sidhis before I left the TM movement in 1978. Any mention of the Maharishi Effect in the original 1976 Collected Papers was added later, in editions that had been subjected to revisionist history. The term hadn't even been *invented* in 1976. If you think differently, prove it. Otherwise I have the right to consider you as delusional as I often do anyway. You guys just want to hate on Maharishi at every turn.The Meissner-Like Effect of consciousness coherence in the “Maharishi Effect” in publication goes back to at least [ 1976 ] with the publishing of paper 98 in The Scientific Research on Transcendental Meditation, Collected Papers, Vol 1 and its introduction and preface in such. It was known and talked around before that on courses and conferences as the early 1970's research was being published in a sequence. You guys obviously were not there. -Buck mjackson74 writes: I have never seen that article before - give great historical perspective - especially the comment that they expected several thousand sidha permanently in Fairfield - guess they got that one wrong - also love the comment about Marshy's stretch limo.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
On 4/4/2014 3:45 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: The point I don't understand, Lawson, is WHY anyone would want to do research to validate or prove So, you don't have all the answers. Apparently Rama levitating was actually just a series of point-instants that appear and disappear instantly - so fast that you don't even see anything until there he was - Rama levitating up in front of the crowd with golden light all around. There was no butt bouncing at all. There he was - suddenly levitating. In contrast, if a monkey were to come flying out of my butt, slinging crap all over, anyone could see the shit flying all over the place, and in some cases, they could duck - others might get ht in the face. something as ludicrous as We can affect other people and the world by bouncing around on our butts on slabs of foam. Apparently Rama didn't use foam as cushion when he demonstrated levitation, at least I've never heard of foam being mentioned. From what I've read, Rama simply appeared *suddenly* to be hovering in a cloud of smoke up on the stage. There was no 1st stage of yogic flying with the Rama guy. In this kind of demonstration there is no flying up, or hovering, it's just instant. Go figure. Please explain to me HOW anyone could develop enough of an attachment to such a dumbfuck idea as to want to prove it. One way is to join an online discussion group and post information about being an insider in a cult. That way, you can make people think that you had the inside track on spiritual knowledge and were wisest of men for all the time and money spent. The important question isn't HOW, but WHY would anyone want to do such as dumbfuck thing, just to prove that they are somebody who was still attached to ideas. It's complicated.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
Guru Dev. Umm, forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by his time with Saraswati? this is the first I have heard of it. On Fri, 4/4/14, anartaxius@... mailto:anartaxius@... anartaxius@... mailto:anartaxius@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 3:49 PM I recall the marketing for the TM-Sidhi programme and it was pretty much as Barry has said. I found the following on the MUM website (*emphasis added*): The World Peace Project *Immediately following the discovery of the Super-Radiance effect in the Fall off 1978*, Maharishi decided to apply it to resolve conflicts in the international arena. More than 1400 experts in the Transcendental Meditation and TM-Sidhi program were sent for approximately two months (November and December, 1978) to several trouble spots of the world, including Central America (Nicaragua), the Middle East (Lebanon), Southern Africa (Rhodesia-Zimbabwe) and Zambia), and to Southeast Asia (Cambodia) as well as to surrounding countries. (the portion I quoted is about halfway down the page) Therefore it seems extremely unlikely that the Sidhi programme was marketed as a group phenomenon prior to this time. I knew several of the governors who went off on those excursions from New York. The marketing before that was all super powers and faster evolution. I was told the movement wanted to get rights to use the Superman comic book character to advertise, but was refused. From a scientific view, 'discovery' is premature, for from a scientific point of view, the jury on this concept has not even yet been convened, as the science has not been confirmed outside movement sources, and is thus ignored outside the meditator community except as a news item from time to time. This brings up an interesting question for me. I have observed that most people who enter into spiritual circles tend to bring with them a number of supersitions, and spiritual movements tend to be a hot bed of superstitious ideas. People within the TM fold seem to hold all sorts of ideas about reality that are not part of the TM canon. What was Maharishi like when he entered into his spiritual circle, what sort of ideas did he have, how did he understand the world prior and during and after his time with Saraswati? Most people seem to change ideas rather slowly except during religious conversion, or sometimes in the face of overwhelming evidence. My hypothesis is the tendency to be superstitious persists while meditating or even doing hard science. So my question is how much nonsense did Maharishi inherit and eventually pass on to us? In addition there are other behavioural features of belief systems. In the classic study 'When Prophesy Fails' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails) believers that expected certain events to occur had those hopes dashed, but interestingly, before the failure they were very secretive about their beliefs, but after the failure they went into proselytising mode, trying to get many more into their mode of belief. This is a bizarre conclusion considering the evidence that the ideas simply totally failed, but human nature is not strictly rational. This seems to be the mental characteristic of spiritual movements whose predictions did not come to pass, that it does not matter if what was said is not true.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
From: authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 7:32 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates Did any of her Hindu friends read the actual transcript or see the tape, or are they relying on Trancenet's unforgettable image of ravening Gods jostling each other to feed at the stomachs of TMers around the world to get their share of the mythical Soma or your humans as a buffet line for soma eating Hindu gods image? Or some other revolting image of her own devising? I don't understand how you can consider either of these descriptions revolting, Judy. I mean, you who are so skeptical and all. They're just alternative (and completely justifiable) descriptions of a bunch of FICTION about gods who don't exist, and a mysterious substance (soma) created in the stomachs of meditators, that likewise doesn't exist, right? You reacting to how other people see such an *obviously* fictional story strikes me as kinda weird, the kinda reaction a religious fanatic might have to some piece of cherished dogma being challenged.
Re: [FairfieldLife] SuperDooperStition
On 4/3/2014 8:00 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Suffice it to say the whole thing turns into an epic battle between the heretics and the gods that puts the battle scenes in the Bhagavad-Gita righteously in the shade. Does it bother anyone else that the mime is talking? Almost everything mentioned in this post has already been done - I wonder if Barry has ever bothered to read any books on Hindu mythology? Go figure. 'Myths and Symbols in India Art and Civilization' by Heinrich Zimmer Edited by Joseph Campbell Bolingen Series, Princeton.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
On 4/4/2014 9:32 AM, Share Long wrote: And I admit that I cringe at the word sacrifice. Can we substitute the word surrender? The Vedic Aryans that came into India around 1500 BC were very fond of the caste system, the *sacrifice*, the rituals, and the secret mantras found in the Rig Veda. They loved to offer up to the Gods the smoke from the sacred fire. They remembered a lot, but they also forgot some things too. By the time they got to Northern India their tradition was already so old they didn't even know where they had come from. However, we do know they were very fond of cattle and cook-outs down by the river. It's not complicated. When the Aryans, or Sanskrit speakers got to India they found another very old, maybe even older tradition already in place - the native shramanic, yogic tradition. That's where the first yogins in India come in - the historical Buddha and the yogins who composed the Upanishads in 563 BC. The Buddha blew to bits the whole caste and social order based on the sacrifice. And, the yogins who composed the Upanishads formulated the idea of the *inner sacrifice* based on the yoga praxis, turning the whole Brahman thingy topsy-turvy. It's a little complicated. Hinduism is a synthesis of Brahmanism and Buddhism. Go figure. BTW, this morning my yogic flying had a wonderful devotional quality. That happens once in a while and I'm always grateful when it does. All you have to do is meditate - and sacrifice your own thoughts to Ishvara. You are only going to get as much enlightenment as you are going to get. It's that simple.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Marshy
On 4/4/2014 11:44 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: All but one of the Beatles cut their ties with their apparently celibate guru after it emerged he'd made a pass at Mia Farrow. Just to add to this outdated thread, isn't it interesting that Mia's sister, Prudence (from the Dear Prudence fame) is (or was back when I did my Siddhis in '85) living and well in Fairfield, Iowa? Would she continue to be a part of the madness were it not for the fallacy of the rumours? - Rango Keshavan http://tinyurl.com/pobpdqw
Re: [FairfieldLife] Send the Koch brothers to Mars
Thanks. I try to do that. After all you DO want to know which foods have glyphosates in them don't you? On 04/04/2014 10:28 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: Send the Koch brothers to Mars Addressing the important issues! On 4/4/2014 11:30 AM, Bhairitu wrote: They are a aligned with Monsanto to get a bill passed in Congress to make it illegal for states to mandate GMO labeling. We don't need these stinkin' landed gentry. Let's send them to Mars. http://rt.com/usa/gmo-labeling-koch-monsanto-249/ PS: Nabby should note the crop circle at the top of the news story. Let's see, this must be the about sum total of what the Barry2 knows about the Koch brothers. LoL!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Soma and the Gods
Wonderful history, Richard and I love that: you're only gonna get as much enlightenment as you're going to get. It's extremely relaxing. And it's fascinating to me that the practice of outer sacrifice is somehow connected to the caste system. Probably a practical issue. Meaning that only the wealthy would have money for wood and incense and matches (-: On Friday, April 4, 2014 1:15 PM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/4/2014 9:32 AM, Share Long wrote: And I admit that I cringe at the word sacrifice. Can we substitute the word surrender? The Vedic Aryans that came into India around 1500 BC were very fond of the caste system, the *sacrifice*, the rituals, and the secret mantras found in the Rig Veda. They loved to offer up to the Gods the smoke from the sacred fire. They remembered a lot, but they also forgot some things too. By the time they got to Northern India their tradition was already so old they didn't even know where they had come from. However, we do know they were very fond of cattle and cook-outs down by the river. It's not complicated. When the Aryans, or Sanskrit speakers got to India they found another very old, maybe even older tradition already in place - the native shramanic, yogic tradition. That's where the first yogins in India come in - the historical Buddha and the yogins who composed the Upanishads in 563 BC. The Buddha blew to bits the whole caste and social order based on the sacrifice. And, the yogins who composed the Upanishads formulated the idea of the *inner sacrifice* based on the yoga praxis, turning the whole Brahman thingy topsy-turvy. It's a little complicated. Hinduism is a synthesis of Brahmanism and Buddhism. Go figure. BTW, this morning my yogic flying had a wonderful devotional quality. That happens once in a while and I'm always grateful when it does. All you have to do is meditate - and sacrifice your own thoughts to Ishvara. You are only going to get as much enlightenment as you are going to get. It's that simple.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Send the Koch brothers to Mars
Lord Charles and Lord David don't like the way we make fun of them. Here is Lord Charles op-ed from this week: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303978304579475860515021286 I think I'll do a sequel to my popular Republican Cry Babies video on YouTube with Charles and David crying with Boner and issa. On 04/04/2014 10:14 AM, Share Long wrote: noozguru, I guess the Koch brothers are worried that if GMO labeling becomes mandatory, their fortune will decrease from 100 billion to 99 billion! Poor babies )-: On Friday, April 4, 2014 11:30 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: They are a aligned with Monsanto to get a bill passed in Congress to make it illegal for states to mandate GMO labeling. We don't need these stinkin' landed gentry. Let's send them to Mars. http://rt.com/usa/gmo-labeling-koch-monsanto-249/ PS: Nabby should note the crop circle at the top of the news story.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
You know exactly what my point is here, Barry, and you also know it has nothing to do with belief in any of this on my part. If the transcript of the tape is accurate, neither of those descriptions are justifiable in terms of what Maharishi actually said. Apparently the ideas Maharishi was trying to convey weren't sufficiently shocking, so they had to be beefed up with descriptions designed to be especially repugnant. It's actually similar to your disingenuous claim that Maharishi taught that bouncing around on one's butt would create world peace. As you know, hopping is a side effect of the mental technique, which is what is said to do the work of creating world peace. The idea that world peace could be created by large numbers of people meditating together isn't sufficiently weird, so you have to pretend that it's the bouncing around on one's butt that is said to do it. If it were all as wildly outlandish as you maintain, you wouldn't have to distort and lie to convince people of it. You're afraid it's not really outlandish enough to put people off, so you have to exaggerate it. Plus which, you don't dare allow anyone to think that correcting disingenuities and inaccuracies and exaggerations so that people get the straight story could possibly be anything but cultist apologetics. That's simply not true, and you know it. It's just another tactic designed to protect your attempts to paint TM in the blackest possible light, regardless of the facts. Some people, Barry, have the integrity to defend even something they don't support or believe in from unfairness and inaccuracy. Others (like yourself) think it's perfectly OK to misrepresent something you don't think is valid so as to convince others to agree with you. It's not just TM, either. You do this with anything you don't like. Did any of her Hindu friends read the actual transcript or see the tape, or are they relying on Trancenet's unforgettable image of ravening Gods jostling each other to feed at the stomachs of TMers around the world to get their share of the mythical Soma or your humans as a buffet line for soma eating Hindu gods image? Or some other revolting image of her own devising? I don't understand how you can consider either of these descriptions revolting, Judy. I mean, you who are so skeptical and all. They're just alternative (and completely justifiable) descriptions of a bunch of FICTION about gods who don't exist, and a mysterious substance (soma) created in the stomachs of meditators, that likewise doesn't exist, right? You reacting to how other people see such an *obviously* fictional story strikes me as kinda weird, the kinda reaction a religious fanatic might have to some piece of cherished dogma being challenged.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
His Holiness Brahmananda Saraswati http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmananda_Saraswati http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmananda_Saraswati ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Umm, forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by his time with Saraswati? this is the first I have heard of it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy
neither was I On Fri, 4/4/14, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 5:26 PM I wasn't referring to any of the TMO's claims, Michael. its not a suck up to the movement if that's what you mean - fairly objective from a non-TM journalists point of view, yes. You need to remember that those who have never done TM and have no reason to do so are not going to be wowed by all the bull crap claims, especially if they have any common sense, which this writer certainly seems to have. On Fri, 4/4/14, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 4:54 PM Ah, yes, so objective, so accurate, so balanced. Right, Michael? Nice write up: Maharishi inspired Beatles but died leaving £2b and rape rumours The Mirror, UK/February 7, 2008 By Nick Webster He inspired the Beatles and promised world peace but died leaving £2 billion amid rumours of rape and murder He was the Sixth Beatle, a spiritual force with the potential to create world peace and end famine. Or he was an avaricious old man with a penchant for young girls who ruined the greatest pop group in history. It rather depends on your point of view, but one thing is certain about the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who died this week aged somewhere between 91 and 97 - he was one of the richest religious leaders in history. The 'giggling guru' - so called because of his high-pitched laugh - lived in an opulent 200-room mansion, with helicopters and dozens of cars at his disposal, and was worth an estimated £2billion. He was the head of a movement with five million followers worldwide, all seeking a higher consciousness through transcendental meditation. But while the Maharishi promised world peace, and cynics laughed at his wacky teachings and yogic flying, sinister stories of sex, debauchery, and even murder cast dark shadows over his life. All but one of the Beatles cut their ties with their apparently celibate guru after it emerged he'd made a pass at Mia Farrow. The Maharishi's people, on the other hand, insist they simply fell out when he discovered the band were using LSD. Later another British disciple, Linda Pearce claimed the Maharishi had seduced her when he was in his 60s. He was a brilliant manipulator, said Mrs Pearce. I just couldn't see that he was a dirty old man. We made love regularly. At one stage I even thought I was pregnant by him. And I don't think I was the only girl. There was a lot of talk that he'd tried to rape Mia Farrow. And there was worse scandal to come. In 1987, when the Maharishi was living in a high security complex on the outskirts of Delhi, India, the Telegraph newspaper of Calcutta alleged five boys had died after being used as guinea pigs in the ashram's medical institute searching for cures for cancer, heart ailments and Aids. Nothing was ever proved. At the same time the fabulously wealthy guru's employees went on strike to increase their £10-a-month wages. The Maharishi simply moved into a five-star hotel in New Delhi until it was over. Mahesh Prasad Varma (or Mahesh Srivastava, depending on your source) was born in the Indian state of Madhya Pradesh, sometime between 1911 and 1918. The son of a government tax inspector, he initially studied physics but then trained with a Vedic spiritual mentor, undertaking two years of silence in the Himalayas where he developed his ideas on transcendental meditation. The movement the Maharishi leaves behind, after his death at his luxurious retreat in Vlodrop in the Netherlands, has been called the world's richest cult. Yet when he began his first world tour as a spiritual leader in Burma in 1958, the Maharishi was praised for his austerity. One commentator wrote: He asks for nothing. His worldly possessions can be carried in one hand. Meeting the Beatles a decade later changed all that. The band had been encouraged to attend a lecture by George Harrison's wife Patti, and were impressed enough by what they heard to accompany him to a weekend retreat in to North Wales. Along with Mick Jagger and Marianne Faithfull, they took the train to Bangor - where the Maharishi assumed the mob of screaming fans were there for him. Only a
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
contact her and ask her if you want to know - she was actually referring to other aspects of his teaching as well, tho she did not say specifically what. I sent her both links so she may have read both pages. I read, as you call it, the actual transcript and tho the author of the piece on it did describe it in somewhat scoffing terms, he didn't make anything up. The fact that M, a Hindu, can straightfaced claim that soma is a substance produced by the human digestive system and that Hindu gods drink that refined product is food itself for derision. He was either superstitious or a monumental liar. I vote for both. On Fri, 4/4/14, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 5:32 PM Did any of her Hindu friends read the actual transcript or see the tape, or are they relying on Trancenet's unforgettable image of ravening Gods jostling each other to feed at the stomachs of TMers around the world to get their share of the mythical Soma or your humans as a buffet line for soma eating Hindu gods image? Or some other revolting image of her own devising? The woman who got TM kicked out of her son's high school is a practicing Hindu, tho she is not Indian. She told me the other day that Marshy's superstitious crap he taught like the humans as a buffet line for soma eating Hindu gods really rubs Hindus the wrong way. And her Hindu friends who were born in India feel the same way she says.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates
oh that Saraswati - I thought you meant the goddess of knowledge On Fri, 4/4/14, anartax...@yahoo.com anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Research Shows Group Meditation Can Reduce Crime Rates To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, April 4, 2014, 6:54 PM His Holiness Brahmananda Saraswatihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmananda_Saraswati ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Umm, forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by his time with Saraswati? this is the first I have heard of it.
