date:20140414



Yep, we've seen it all before. 

 Come on Judy, the ball is in your court. We want an explanation and not more 
of this "you're stupid for not having read what I don't understand either but 
someone else told me is good" argument which does you no credit whatsoever and 
actually makes you look rather ridiculous.
 

 But I'm guessing you don't care about that as your prime motivation is being 
able to sneer down your high and mighty nose at people. Given your 
unwillingness to even try and articulate what you claim to understand, it must 
be a rather hollow victory.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 This is the same number she's tried to run any number of times before: "I 
won't discuss this weighty matter with you unless you do your homework and read 
all the ideas I (supposedly) have read about this (idiotic) concept first." 

It's "intellectual McCarthyism." Sorta like "I have in my hand a list of all of 
the Communists in the State Department," she claims "I have in my mind a list 
of all of the arguments of classical theism that prove you're an idiot and I'm 
smarter than you." The trick of this tactic, of course, is to never reveal the 
list. :-)

She's done it with astrology/Jyotish and with other dumbfuck ideas, always 
trying to put the onus on the person she's trying to convince of the validity 
of the dumbfuck idea. 

NEWS FLASH TO JUDY: We don't believe in the dumbfuck idea. We're pretty 
convinced that the dumbfuck idea is SO dumb that we don't care to invest any 
time in reading treatises about the dumbfuck idea written by so-called experts 
or "philosophers." If you want to argue for the dumbfuck idea you're 
championing, you've got to EXPLAIN IT YOURSELF.
 

 Which, of course, is the reason she doesn't ever explain. She can't. She's 
never been a teacher, and doesn't have either the thinking or the writing 
skills to adequately explain her position to someone who doesn't already share 
it. She has that lazy TM mindset in which one can only explain dumbfuck ideas 
to people who have already been conditioned to believe them. So she runs this 
number over and over and over again, to try to make those who don't buy the 
dumbfuck idea in the first place look STOOOPID for not having read volumes of 
purple prose defending the dumbfuck idea. 

 

 Salyavin nails it. Until Judy can make her *own* case for the dumbfuck idea 
she wishes to promote, no one needs to pay any attention to it whatsoever.
 

 But she'll never do that, because then she'd have to reveal that she actually 
*believes* in the dumbfuck idea, and thus she'd lose her "Get Out Of Jail Free" 
card, the one that allows her to pretend she's only arguing on principle, not 
because she's a fanatical believer in the dumbfuck idea.  :-)

 

 From: salyavin808 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 7:45 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
 
 
   Either tell us where the laws of physics are inadequate compared to theism 
or shut the fuck up.
 

 We're waiting.
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yet another atheist wannabe who simply cannot lower himself to reading enough 
philosophy to realize the incoherence of one of his fundamental premises, or 
that the purported evidentiary problems of theism as confronted by science that 
he blabs on about so pompously are in fact nonexistent. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Hell if I know what a divinity is. I just copied the definition of 'numinous' 
from the Google search results for 'define:numinous'. I was discussing the 
nature of informed belief, that is belief based on evidence rather than simply 
an idea one has in the mind. I was not discussing anything about atheism. 
Without evidence, there is no case to be made, so arguments for and against are 
empty. One can argue that Sherlock Holmes smoked a Meerschaum pipe, but the 
evidence in the illustrations of the stories as originally published indicate 
he did not, but Sherlock Holmes never existed in reality as a real person, so 
what one is really arguing about here is not about Sherlock Holmes and his 
pipe, but the content of the text and illustrations in the stories about a 
fictional character called 'Sherlock Holmes'. So the argument concerning Mr 
Holmes is not about a reality but an illusion purporting to be a reality, the 
actual reality in this case being printed text and illustrations in The Strand 
Magazine (1891–1950, United Kingdom). 

 The definition of 'divinity' (noun) from the same Google source is 'the state 
or quality of being divine', and 'a divinity' would then be 'something that has 
the state or quality of being divine', which seems to imply there could be more 
than one something that has those characteristics. A saint might be considered 
divine. Zeus could be considered divine and therefore a divinity. So could 
Apollo, or Jehovah. Maybe I could be divine. Maybe you could be divine, though 
there seems to be a p

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

2014-04-14 Thread LEnglish5

IN some ways,MEG is teh klukiest looking of them all. It's super-conducting 
magnets next the  scalp (like EEG but with magnets instead of electrodes). 

 The crazy looking thing on top is the liquid-nitrogen refrigerator that keeps 
the magnets cold. Machines like that are super expensive, but can detect tiny 
magnetic fluctuations of the brain that last about 1/1000 of a second. In some 
ways they're more accurate than EEG, but they can only deal with magnetic 
fields towards the surface of the brain, so you can't even get a fuzzy idea of 
what is going on further in, like you can sorta get with the electric currents 
that EEG detects.
 

 I'd love to see MUM get one, but the initial cost is about $3 million, plus 
another $100K/year upkeep, at least, and you need a specialized magnetically 
shielded room + extremely stable power source. In other words, you'd need to 
spend as much as the entire MUM Student Center cost to install one.
 

 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/NIMH_MEG.jpg 
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/NIMH_MEG.jpg
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 thanks for the info, Lawson. I've never heard of MEG before. And I admit, all 
these machines seem kind of clunky but if they help us see the brain better, 
great.

How best can the knower know itself?
 

 On Monday, April 14, 2014 4:13 AM, "LEnglish5@..."  wrote:
 
   Ny money is on sophisticated analysis of high resolution EEG and MEG. fMRI 
is pretty low-resolution, time-wise, and the interesting stuff can happen in 
way under a second, which is the ilmitation of all the popular direct brain 
imaging stuff.
 

 

 Lawson

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Thanks, Lawson. I think it'll be so much fun when we can see all these 
abstract states, such as absolute faith, right there in the fMRI.
 

 On Saturday, April 12, 2014 4:07 PM, "LEnglish5@..."  wrote:
 
   

 IF you have absolute faith in samadhi, that is, if your samadhi is unshakable, 
regardless of circumstances, then the ability to float might manifest.
 

 And placebo might be related to that in some way as there are overlaps in 
which brain circuits are activated during placebo effects and during the 
practice of the TM-Sidhis..
 

 

 There are also overlaps in the brain circuits that activate during pure 
consciousness and during mind-wandering, so placebo being related to siddhis 
practice is like saying that pure consciousness is related to  mind wandering.
 

 

 

 Or something.
 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Lawson, thanks for the additional definitions of shraddha. Could you say more 
about your last two sentences? I'm missing your main point somehow.

 On Saturday, April 12, 2014 5:12 AM, "LEnglish5@..."  wrote:
 
   "If you had the faith of a mustard seed, you could move mountains."
 

 shraddhaa is translated as "Faith" which can mean trust, or belief without 
proof. The Hebrew word translated as "faith" means something along the lines of 
"strong [in God]" and the Greed word means something like "intuitive knowledge."
 

 "Grok" in the original sense of the Martian word for "drink" seems to contain 
a bit of the same feel.
 

 

 In the context of the siddhis, how about "absolute stability" of samadhi?
 

 The placebo effect might be related to that, in the same way that 
mind-wandering is related to pure consciousness.
 

 

 

 L
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 They might be called to be based on placebo, because, IMU, faith (shraddhaa) 
is the conditio
sine qua non of  samaadhi.

As an analogy, I'll try to explain in English, how I seem to recall to have 
learned to bike (at about 7 years of age).
It might have been the very first time I ever tried to ride a bike. It was a 
women's bike,
the one of the mother of a friend of mine. I just started to ride and kept on, 
believing,
that a couple of other boys were keeping the bike upright. As a stopped, I 
noticed
they were about 30 yards behind me! So I learned to bike because I, falsely,
believed  I couldn't fall (because I believed the other boys were running behind
me keeping the bike upright)! 

So, in a sense my belief was the placebo that instantaneosly
helped me to learn to ride a bike??

Wikipedia:

 Placebo effect and the brain Functional imaging 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_imaging upon placebo analgesia 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analgesia shows that it links to the activation, 
and increased functional correlation between this activation, in the anterior 
cingulate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_cingulate, prefrontal 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefrontal_cortex, orbitofrontal 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbitofrontal_cortex and insular 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_cortex cortices, nucleus accumbens 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleus_accumbens, amygdala 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdala, the brainstem periaqueductal gray matter 
http://en.wikipedi

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

This is the same number she's tried to run any number of times before: "I won't 
discuss this weighty matter with you unless you do your homework and read all 
the ideas I (supposedly) have read about this (idiotic) concept first." 

It's "intellectual McCarthyism." Sorta like "I have in my hand a list of all of 
the Communists in the State Department," she claims "I have in my mind a list 
of all of the arguments of classical theism that prove you're an idiot and I'm 
smarter than you." The trick of this tactic, of course, is to never reveal the 
list. :-)

She's done it with astrology/Jyotish and with other dumbfuck ideas, always 
trying to put the onus on the person she's trying to convince of the validity 
of the dumbfuck idea. 

NEWS FLASH TO JUDY: We don't believe in the dumbfuck idea. We're pretty 
convinced that the dumbfuck idea is SO dumb that we don't care to invest any 
time in reading treatises about the dumbfuck idea written by so-called experts 
or "philosophers." If you want to argue for the dumbfuck idea you're 
championing, you've got to EXPLAIN IT YOURSELF.


Which, of course, is the reason she doesn't ever explain. She can't. She's 
never been a teacher, and doesn't have either the thinking or the writing 
skills to adequately explain her position to someone who doesn't already share 
it. She has that lazy TM mindset in which one can only explain dumbfuck ideas 
to people who have already been conditioned to believe them. So she runs this 
number over and over and over again, to try to make those who don't buy the 
dumbfuck idea in the first place look STOOOPID for not having read volumes of 
purple prose defending the dumbfuck idea. 


Salyavin nails it. Until Judy can make her *own* case for the dumbfuck idea she 
wishes to promote, no one needs to pay any attention to it whatsoever.

But she'll never do that, because then she'd have to reveal that she actually 
*believes* in the dumbfuck idea, and thus she'd lose her "Get Out Of Jail Free" 
card, the one that allows her to pretend she's only arguing on principle, not 
because she's a fanatical believer in the dumbfuck idea.  :-)




 From: salyavin808 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 7:45 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
 


  
Either tell us where the laws of physics are inadequate compared to theism or 
shut the fuck up.

We're waiting.






---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Yet another atheist wannabe who simply cannot lower himself to reading enough 
philosophy to realize the incoherence of one of his fundamental premises, or 
that the purported evidentiary problems of theism as confronted by science that 
he blabs on about so pompously are in fact nonexistent.


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Hell if I know what a divinity is. I just copied the definition of 'numinous' 
from the Google search results for 'define:numinous'. I was discussing the 
nature of informed belief, that is belief based on evidence rather than simply 
an idea one has in the mind. I was not discussing anything about atheism. 
Without evidence, there is no case to be made, so arguments for and against are 
empty. One can argue that Sherlock Holmes smoked a Meerschaum pipe, but the 
evidence in the illustrations of the stories as originally published indicate 
he did not, but Sherlock Holmes never existed in reality as a real person, so 
what one is really arguing about here is not about Sherlock Holmes and his 
pipe, but the content of the text and illustrations in the stories about a 
fictional character called 'Sherlock Holmes'. So the argument concerning Mr 
Holmes is not about a reality but an illusion purporting to be a reality, the 
actual reality in this case being printed text
 and illustrations in The Strand Magazine (1891–1950, United Kingdom).

The definition of 'divinity' (noun) from the same Google source is 'the state 
or quality of being divine', and 'a divinity' would then be 'something that has 
the state or quality of being divine', which seems to imply there could be more 
than one something that has those characteristics. A saint might be considered 
divine. Zeus could be considered divine and therefore a divinity. So could 
Apollo, or Jehovah. Maybe I could be divine. Maybe you could be divine, though 
there seems to be a preponderance of opinion here that would not likely be the 
case. It is not incoherent to say 'I just believe in one less divinity than you 
do'. That is just a statement, a proposition. Some people believe in many 
divinities, some in just one, some in none. A proposition by itself is not an 
argument, just a statement that may or may not have truth value, which cannot 
be affirmed or denied on the basis of the proposition itself. Coherence depends 
on how a particular
 proposition aligns logically with other propositions, and aligns with what the 
proposition(s) point to, if in fact they point to someth

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Either tell us where the laws of physics are inadequate compared to theism or 
shut the fuck up. 

 We're waiting.
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yet another atheist wannabe who simply cannot lower himself to reading enough 
philosophy to realize the incoherence of one of his fundamental premises, or 
that the purported evidentiary problems of theism as confronted by science that 
he blabs on about so pompously are in fact nonexistent. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Hell if I know what a divinity is. I just copied the definition of 'numinous' 
from the Google search results for 'define:numinous'. I was discussing the 
nature of informed belief, that is belief based on evidence rather than simply 
an idea one has in the mind. I was not discussing anything about atheism. 
Without evidence, there is no case to be made, so arguments for and against are 
empty. One can argue that Sherlock Holmes smoked a Meerschaum pipe, but the 
evidence in the illustrations of the stories as originally published indicate 
he did not, but Sherlock Holmes never existed in reality as a real person, so 
what one is really arguing about here is not about Sherlock Holmes and his 
pipe, but the content of the text and illustrations in the stories about a 
fictional character called 'Sherlock Holmes'. So the argument concerning Mr 
Holmes is not about a reality but an illusion purporting to be a reality, the 
actual reality in this case being printed text and illustrations in The Strand 
Magazine (1891–1950, United Kingdom). 

 The definition of 'divinity' (noun) from the same Google source is 'the state 
or quality of being divine', and 'a divinity' would then be 'something that has 
the state or quality of being divine', which seems to imply there could be more 
than one something that has those characteristics. A saint might be considered 
divine. Zeus could be considered divine and therefore a divinity. So could 
Apollo, or Jehovah. Maybe I could be divine. Maybe you could be divine, though 
there seems to be a preponderance of opinion here that would not likely be the 
case. It is not incoherent to say 'I just believe in one less divinity than you 
do'. That is just a statement, a proposition. Some people believe in many 
divinities, some in just one, some in none. A proposition by itself is not an 
argument, just a statement that may or may not have truth value, which cannot 
be affirmed or denied on the basis of the proposition itself. Coherence depends 
on how a particular proposition aligns logically with other propositions, and 
aligns with what the proposition(s) point to, if in fact they point to 
something outside themselves, for if they do not, it is an empty argument, much 
ado about nothing.
 

 In mentioning enlightenment, that particular discipline investigates 
subjectively the nature of sensory experience and its relationship to thought, 
and the interpretation by thought of the nature of experience, whether in fact 
thought can represent 'truth' or is simply a distortion of 'truth', or even 
whether there really is anything or state that could be thought of as 'truth', 
that is, whether the word 'truth' has any meaningful correlate that is real.
 

 A friend of mine was recently sued for delinquent payment of rent. This was 
not true, as my friend brought evidence of the fact to court, but the person 
bringing the suit came to court without any evidence whatsoever, but managed to 
convince the court — the judge and the person suing being white and my friend, 
black, to a 90 day stay, so that evidence could be brought — the argument: 'I 
did not think (the defendant) would show up'. The case was thrown out by a 
higher judge on the basis that no evidence was brought, and the lower judge 
showed prejudice in not dismissing the case.
 

 This is the situation between non-believers and believers of the religious 
kind, there are arguments but evidence is unconvincing or absent in spite of 
the sophistication of the pleading or polemic of the claims being made.
 

 Science takes a practical tack in such instances, no evidence, no case. This 
gets rid of the nutters, so one can focus on actual stuff, but occasionally 
there are examples of the baby being thrown out with the bath water, but in 
time the mistake may be rectified. 
 

 'Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that 
may never be questioned.' — source unknown
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Exactly what is "a divinity"? 

 This is where atheists, especially those with pretensions to scientific 
understanding but who are deficient in philosophy, tend to get all tangled up 
and become incoherent, saying things like "I just believe in one less divinity 
than you do."
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 nu·mi·nous = having a strong religious or spiritual quality; indicating or 
suggesting the presence of a divinity.
 Exactly what is a strong religio

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Yet another atheist wannabe who simply cannot lower himself to reading enough 
philosophy to realize the incoherence of one of his fundamental premises, or 
that the purported evidentiary problems of theism as confronted by science that 
he blabs on about so pompously are in fact nonexistent. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Hell if I know what a divinity is. I just copied the definition of 'numinous' 
from the Google search results for 'define:numinous'. I was discussing the 
nature of informed belief, that is belief based on evidence rather than simply 
an idea one has in the mind. I was not discussing anything about atheism. 
Without evidence, there is no case to be made, so arguments for and against are 
empty. One can argue that Sherlock Holmes smoked a Meerschaum pipe, but the 
evidence in the illustrations of the stories as originally published indicate 
he did not, but Sherlock Holmes never existed in reality as a real person, so 
what one is really arguing about here is not about Sherlock Holmes and his 
pipe, but the content of the text and illustrations in the stories about a 
fictional character called 'Sherlock Holmes'. So the argument concerning Mr 
Holmes is not about a reality but an illusion purporting to be a reality, the 
actual reality in this case being printed text and illustrations in The Strand 
Magazine (1891–1950, United Kingdom). 

 The definition of 'divinity' (noun) from the same Google source is 'the state 
or quality of being divine', and 'a divinity' would then be 'something that has 
the state or quality of being divine', which seems to imply there could be more 
than one something that has those characteristics. A saint might be considered 
divine. Zeus could be considered divine and therefore a divinity. So could 
Apollo, or Jehovah. Maybe I could be divine. Maybe you could be divine, though 
there seems to be a preponderance of opinion here that would not likely be the 
case. It is not incoherent to say 'I just believe in one less divinity than you 
do'. That is just a statement, a proposition. Some people believe in many 
divinities, some in just one, some in none. A proposition by itself is not an 
argument, just a statement that may or may not have truth value, which cannot 
be affirmed or denied on the basis of the proposition itself. Coherence depends 
on how a particular proposition aligns logically with other propositions, and 
aligns with what the proposition(s) point to, if in fact they point to 
something outside themselves, for if they do not, it is an empty argument, much 
ado about nothing.
 

 In mentioning enlightenment, that particular discipline investigates 
subjectively the nature of sensory experience and its relationship to thought, 
and the interpretation by thought of the nature of experience, whether in fact 
thought can represent 'truth' or is simply a distortion of 'truth', or even 
whether there really is anything or state that could be thought of as 'truth', 
that is, whether the word 'truth' has any meaningful correlate that is real.
 

 A friend of mine was recently sued for delinquent payment of rent. This was 
not true, as my friend brought evidence of the fact to court, but the person 
bringing the suit came to court without any evidence whatsoever, but managed to 
convince the court — the judge and the person suing being white and my friend, 
black, to a 90 day stay, so that evidence could be brought — the argument: 'I 
did not think (the defendant) would show up'. The case was thrown out by a 
higher judge on the basis that no evidence was brought, and the lower judge 
showed prejudice in not dismissing the case.
 

 This is the situation between non-believers and believers of the religious 
kind, there are arguments but evidence is unconvincing or absent in spite of 
the sophistication of the pleading or polemic of the claims being made.
 

 Science takes a practical tack in such instances, no evidence, no case. This 
gets rid of the nutters, so one can focus on actual stuff, but occasionally 
there are examples of the baby being thrown out with the bath water, but in 
time the mistake may be rectified. 
 

 'Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that 
may never be questioned.' — source unknown
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Exactly what is "a divinity"? 

 This is where atheists, especially those with pretensions to scientific 
understanding but who are deficient in philosophy, tend to get all tangled up 
and become incoherent, saying things like "I just believe in one less divinity 
than you do."
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 nu·mi·nous = having a strong religious or spiritual quality; indicating or 
suggesting the presence of a divinity.
 Exactly what is a strong religious quality? Exactly what is a spiritual 
quality? How do these two qualities indicate or suggest the presence of a 
divinity? If something is indicated or suggested, is th

[FairfieldLife] Re: Ending the Use of Dirty Fuels, Years of Living Dangerously...global warming

To really mediate this, we need much better public school education using and 
teaching all that is scientific towards a more invincible future. Like taking 
more quiet time employing effective transcending meditation into the 
educational design of our schools, employing quiet time meditation in to our 
workplaces, and taking meditation in to our homes and home-life. -Buck
 

 We need a revolution in the spiritual outlook of humanity right now. This is 
about public education.
 

 An Entrenched Materialism of our vast human race is the problem at core. The 
problem is fundamentally spiritual.
 

 We Must, 
 End the Use of Dirty Fuels, 
 Now. ..
 http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27008352 
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27008352
 

 

 The problem is way too beyond just sustainability.

 
 We are talking survival.  As a species.
 It is quite time for a change. Radical change.
 -Buck in the Dome
 

 The World Simply Must
 

 End the Use of Dirty Fuels,
 Rampant Materialism, Hyper-Industrial Production and the Over-consumption of 
the consumer economies of the world at too high a level by too many people to 
be sustainable is the problem.
 

 

 sharelong60 writes: What does the Syrian war, destruction of Indonesian parks 
and Texas have in common?
 The premiere of a new Showtime series, Years of Living Dangerously, 
unexpectedly on global warming. 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ
 
 Its 1 hour. 
 .
 Om Shant
 .
 

 .

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Hell if I know what a divinity is. I just copied the definition of 'numinous' 
from the Google search results for 'define:numinous'. I was discussing the 
nature of informed belief, that is belief based on evidence rather than simply 
an idea one has in the mind. I was not discussing anything about atheism. 
Without evidence, there is no case to be made, so arguments for and against are 
empty. One can argue that Sherlock Holmes smoked a Meerschaum pipe, but the 
evidence in the illustrations of the stories as originally published indicate 
he did not, but Sherlock Holmes never existed in reality as a real person, so 
what one is really arguing about here is not about Sherlock Holmes and his 
pipe, but the content of the text and illustrations in the stories about a 
fictional character called 'Sherlock Holmes'. So the argument concerning Mr 
Holmes is not about a reality but an illusion purporting to be a reality, the 
actual reality in this case being printed text and illustrations in The Strand 
Magazine (1891–1950, United Kingdom). 

 The definition of 'divinity' (noun) from the same Google source is 'the state 
or quality of being divine', and 'a divinity' would then be 'something that has 
the state or quality of being divine', which seems to imply there could be more 
than one something that has those characteristics. A saint might be considered 
divine. Zeus could be considered divine and therefore a divinity. So could 
Apollo, or Jehovah. Maybe I could be divine. Maybe you could be divine, though 
there seems to be a preponderance of opinion here that would not likely be the 
case. It is not incoherent to say 'I just believe in one less divinity than you 
do'. That is just a statement, a proposition. Some people believe in many 
divinities, some in just one, some in none. A proposition by itself is not an 
argument, just a statement that may or may not have truth value, which cannot 
be affirmed or denied on the basis of the proposition itself. Coherence depends 
on how a particular proposition aligns logically with other propositions, and 
aligns with what the proposition(s) point to, if in fact they point to 
something outside themselves, for if they do not, it is an empty argument, much 
ado about nothing.
 

 In mentioning enlightenment, that particular discipline investigates 
subjectively the nature of sensory experience and its relationship to thought, 
and the interpretation by thought of the nature of experience, whether in fact 
thought can represent 'truth' or is simply a distortion of 'truth', or even 
whether there really is anything or state that could be thought of as 'truth', 
that is, whether the word 'truth' has any meaningful correlate that is real.
 

 A friend of mine was recently sued for delinquent payment of rent. This was 
not true, as my friend brought evidence of the fact to court, but the person 
bringing the suit came to court without any evidence whatsoever, but managed to 
convince the court — the judge and the person suing being white and my friend, 
black, to a 90 day stay, so that evidence could be brought — the argument: 'I 
did not think (the defendant) would show up'. The case was thrown out by a 
higher judge on the basis that no evidence was brought, and the lower judge 
showed prejudice in not dismissing the case.
 

 This is the situation between non-believers and believers of the religious 
kind, there are arguments but evidence is unconvincing or absent in spite of 
the sophistication of the pleading or polemic of the claims being made.
 

 Science takes a practical tack in such instances, no evidence, no case. This 
gets rid of the nutters, so one can focus on actual stuff, but occasionally 
there are examples of the baby being thrown out with the bath water, but in 
time the mistake may be rectified. 
 

 'Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that 
may never be questioned.' — source unknown
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Exactly what is "a divinity"? 

 This is where atheists, especially those with pretensions to scientific 
understanding but who are deficient in philosophy, tend to get all tangled up 
and become incoherent, saying things like "I just believe in one less divinity 
than you do."
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 nu·mi·nous = having a strong religious or spiritual quality; indicating or 
suggesting the presence of a divinity.
 Exactly what is a strong religious quality? Exactly what is a spiritual 
quality? How do these two qualities indicate or suggest the presence of a 
divinity? If something is indicated or suggested, is that any reason to assume 
that something is actually there if it has not been directly seen, directly 
experienced.
 

 All that has to be done is demonstrate, unequivocally, what it is that one 
wants others to see, then you have a reason to define and investigate what that 
is. It is not necessary to investigate or define what does not exist

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Hell if I know what a divinity is. I just copied the definition of 'numinous' 
from the Google search results for 'define:numinous'. I was discussing the 
nature of informed belief, that is belief based on evidence rather than simply 
an idea one has in the mind. I was not discussing anything about atheism. 
Without evidence, there is no case to be made, so arguments for and against are 
empty. One can argue that Sherlock Holmes smoked a Meerschaum pipe, but the 
evidence in the illustrations of the stories as originally published indicate 
he did not, but Sherlock Holmes never existed in reality as a real person, so 
what one is really arguing about here is not about Sherlock Holmes and his 
pipe, but the content of the text and illustrations in the stories about a 
fictional character called 'Sherlock Holmes'. So the argument concerning Mr 
Holmes is not about a reality but an illusion purporting to be a reality, the 
actual reality in this case being printed text and illustrations in The Strand 
Magazine (1891–1950, United Kingdom). 

 The definition of 'divinity' (noun) from the same Google source is 'the state 
or quality of being divine', and 'a divinity' would then be 'something that has 
the state or quality of being divine', which seems to imply there could be more 
than one something that has those characteristics. A saint might be considered 
divine. Zeus could be considered divine and therefore a divinity. So could 
Apollo, or Jehovah. Maybe I could be divine. Maybe you could be divine, though 
there seems to be a preponderance of opinion here that would not likely be the 
case. It is not incoherent to say 'I just believe in one less divinity than you 
do'. That is just a statement, a proposition. Some people believe in many 
divinities, some in just one, some in none. A proposition by itself is not an 
argument, just a statement that may or may not have truth value, which cannot 
be affirmed or denied on the basis of the proposition itself. Coherence depends 
on how a particular proposition aligns logically with other propositions, and 
aligns with what the proposition(s) point to, if in fact they point to 
something outside themselves, for if they do not, it is an empty argument, much 
ado about nothing.
 

 In mentioning enlightenment, that particular discipline investigates 
subjectively the nature of sensory experience and its relationship to thought, 
and the interpretation by thought of the nature of experience, whether in fact 
thought can represent 'truth' or is simply a distortion of 'truth', or even 
whether there really is anything or state that could be thought of as 'truth', 
that is, whether the world 'truth' has any meaningful correlate that is real.
 

 A friend of mine was recently sued for delinquent payment of rent. This was 
not true, as my friend brought evidence of the fact to court, but the person 
bringing the suit came to court without any evidence whatsoever, but managed to 
convince the court — the judge and the person suing being white and my friend, 
black, to a 90 day stay, so that evidence could be brought — the argument: 'I 
did not think (the defendant) would show up'. The case was thrown out by a 
higher judge on the basis that no evidence was brought, and the lower judge 
showed prejudice in not dismissing the case.
 

 This is the situation between non-believers and believers of the religious 
kind, there are arguments but evidence is unconvincing or absent in spite of 
the sophistication of the pleading or polemic of the claims being made.
 

 Science takes a practical tack in such instances, no evidence, no case. This 
gets rid of the nutters, so one can focus on actual stuff, but occasionally 
there are examples of the baby being thrown out with the bath water, but in 
time the mistake may be rectified. 
 

 'Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that 
may never be questioned.' — source unknown
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Exactly what is "a divinity"? 

 This is where atheists, especially those with pretensions to scientific 
understanding but who are deficient in philosophy, tend to get all tangled up 
and become incoherent, saying things like "I just believe in one less divinity 
than you do."
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 nu·mi·nous = having a strong religious or spiritual quality; indicating or 
suggesting the presence of a divinity.
 Exactly what is a strong religious quality? Exactly what is a spiritual 
quality? How do these two qualities indicate or suggest the presence of a 
divinity? If something is indicated or suggested, is that any reason to assume 
that something is actually there if it has not been directly seen, directly 
experienced.
 

 All that has to be done is demonstrate, unequivocally, what it is that one 
wants others to see, then you have a reason to define and investigate what that 
is. It is not necessary to investigate or define what does not exis

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: We Went There

Beautiful pictures, Richard, thanks for posting...

On Monday, April 14, 2014 8:49 PM, Pundit Sir  wrote:

Today we went to this place: The San Antonio Botanical Garden

http://www.sabot.org/

On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Pundit Sir  wrote:

They also have hats at Sheplers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 7:09 AM, Pundit Sir  wrote:
>
>Yesterday we went to this place to look at boots and stuff:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] For TMers Only

On 4/14/2014 6:32 PM, Michael Jackson wrote:
> A beautiful montage of two frauds.
 >
Now this is funny - coming from"Michael Jackson". LoL!

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
http://www.avast.com

Re: [FairfieldLife] Fwd: Tonight! CITY COUNCIL considers proposed grain processing site

On 4/14/2014 6:36 PM, Michael Jackson wrote:
> Looks like half the city council are TM'ers - how come you cant the 
> the council to vote to block it, or is MUM on board with the project?
 >
It looks like everyone is on board with the project.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
http://www.avast.com

[FairfieldLife] Re: We Went There

2014-04-14 Thread Pundit Sir

Today we went to this place: The San Antonio Botanical Garden

http://www.sabot.org/

[image: Inline image 2]

[image: Inline image 1]

[image: Inline image 3]




On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Pundit Sir  wrote:

> They also have hats at Sheplers.
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 7:09 AM, Pundit Sir  wrote:
>
>> Yesterday we went to this place to look at boots and stuff:
>>
>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>
>
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!

The attribution of the term “Vedic” is now used to legitimate all sorts of 
knowledge 
 and practices. Thus, we hear of “Vedic architecture”, “Vedic astrology”, 
“Vedic 
 ecology”, “Vedic mathematics”, “Ayur-Veda” (Vedic medicine), “Vedic 
 socialism and communism”, and even “Vedic management”. The visibility of 
 these phenomena increased with recent attempts by Hindu nationalists, when 
 they were in power, to introduce these new fields into school and university 
 systems, both in India and abroad. This political operation raised significant 
 ideological issues and led to a huge controversy about the legitimacy of these 
 different fields. 
 
Despite their visibility, both in India and Anglo-Saxon countries, and despite

 the controversies that they generated, these discourses and practices have 
 received only marginal attention from the social sciences, and have moreover 
 never been the topic of a study where they are considered jointly.
 

 This international conference aims to bridge this gap by bringing together

 ethnologists who have observed the birth and dissemination of these
 phenomena in their field studies.
 

 The participation of historians and Sanskrit
 scholars will help us to put the historical dimension of these events into
 perspective, while specialists of other cultural arenas, who face similar
 phenomena of appeal to texts, will shed light on the regional specificity of
 these observed social facts.
 

 During the conference, the primary task will be to understand the scope of
 these phenomena, by examining the social identity of the actors involved:
 which groups or individuals contribute to the production of these new forms of
 knowledge? To whom are they addressed? Who are the intermediaries
 involved in the propagation of these ideas? Which groups contest the
 legitimacy of these discourses? In particular, we shall attempt to understand
 how these groups organize themselves institutionally (sects, associations,
 university); their political, religious and associative networks; as well as 
their
 relationship with figures in the Hindu nationalist movement. The sociological
 investigation of these figures shall necessarily take into consideration the 
role
 of Indian diaspora and its transnational networks.
 

 Central to our investigation is a focus on the content of these “new” forms of
 knowledge, and the legitimation strategies that go along with them. Although it
 takes particular forms in the modern world, referencing the Vedas is actually
 an ancient way to affirm the validity of knowledge . How are contemporary
 ways of referring to the Vedas as a legitimating authority different from 
ancient
 ways? In what ways does the attribution “Vedic” help to legitimate particular
 ways of knowing?
 

 This will lead us to question the role of textual authority in
 contemporary Hinduism and its uses as a way of forging new religious 
 identities. If modern science as epistemological authority was amply used by 
 Hindu reformers during colonial times to prove the universal value of 
 Hinduism, how are the “Vedic” and the “scientific” articulated in contemporary 
 discourses and practices?
 
 Participants will also be asked to investigate
 whether the attribution “Vedic” is always used in a “Hindu” context or whether 
it can be a purely commercial term used to sell the “exotic” and the “ancient”
 within India— as in the case of the Vedic City under construction by the Shri
 Infratech group in Greater Noida.
 

 Similarly, the conference will deal with the economy that is generated as these

 ideas spread. Besides the ideological dimension, commercial concerns seem
 to be at the heart of these new phenomena.
 
 “The attribution “Vedic” has
 important commercial implications that should be attentively examined. The
 Vedas are nowadays sold as a commercial item, in the form of printed texts,
 recorded mantras (CD, DVD), or as a packaged tourist destination (Vedic
 schools, Vedic meditations centres). “Vedic” forms of knowledge are also
 extensively commercialized: countless services (consultations, courses,
 stages) and products (Vedic horoscopes, Vedic remedies, Vedic ritual items,
 etc.) are sold through the web. Participants will then be asked to explore the
 social networks, the marketing strategies and the material supports used in
 this “Vedic economy”.
 
 A Lifestyle inspired by the Golden age of the Indian Civilization. 
Chandragupta Maurya ! Ashoka ! Reminiscent of the Golden Age is now a realty. 
Vedic City will be an Epic beginning to a new life.
 
 An Epic beginning to a new life, today we invite you to become a part of that 
mystical grandeur in a Vedic City near you.
 .
 .
 Om S
 .
 

 .

[FairfieldLife] Post Count Tue 15-Apr-14 00:15:03 UTC

2014-04-14 Thread FFL PostCount

Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
Start Date (UTC): 04/12/14 00:00:00
End Date (UTC): 04/19/14 00:00:00
342 messages as of (UTC) 04/14/14 23:50:20

 46 authfriend
 45 Richard J. Williams 
 35 nablusoss1008 
 30 salyavin808 
 28 dhamiltony2k5
 27 Bhairitu 
 26 Share Long 
 22 Michael Jackson 
 17 TurquoiseBee 
 14 Pundit Sir 
 10 awoelflebater
  9 emilymaenot
  6 LEnglish5
  4 steve.sundur
  4 srijau
  4 cardemaister
  4 anartaxius
  3 jr_esq
  2 Mike Dixon 
  1 j_alexander_stanley
  1 Turquoise 
  1 Toby Walker 
  1 Rick Archer 
  1 Duveyoung 
  1 Dick Mays 
Posters: 25
Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times
=
Daylight Saving Time (Summer):
US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM
Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM
Standard Time (Winter):
US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM
Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM
For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com

Re: [FairfieldLife] Fwd: Tonight! CITY COUNCIL considers proposed grain processing site

2014-04-14 Thread j_alexander_stanley

If anyone wants to watch the meeting, it's broadcast live over the Internet:

 

 http://new.livestream.com/FairfieldMediaCenter/events/2921122 
http://new.livestream.com/FairfieldMediaCenter/events/2921122

[FairfieldLife] Re: We Went There

2014-04-14 Thread Pundit Sir

They also have hats at Sheplers.

[image: Inline image 1]


On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 7:09 AM, Pundit Sir  wrote:

> Yesterday we went to this place to look at boots and stuff:
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Fwd: Tonight! CITY COUNCIL considers proposed grain processing site

Looks like half the city council are TM'ers - how come you cant the the council 
to vote to block it, or is MUM on board with the project?

On Mon, 4/14/14, Dick Mays  wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Fwd: Tonight!  CITY COUNCIL considers proposed grain 
processing site
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, April 14, 2014, 9:14 PM

   Forwarded from:
 "Tim
 Bowker"  

 Tonight! 
 CITY COUNCIL considers proposed grain processing 
 site

 FAIRFIELD CITY COUNCIL
 AGENDA
 CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
 April 14, 2014 7:00 P.M.
 118 S Main 
 St

 Blue Zone concerns regarding
 proposed Heartland 
 Co-Op:

 http://ia-fairfield.civicplus.com/DocumentCenter/View/1718

 Listen to the following 60-minute
 KRUU interview Friday afternoon of 
 the currently planned grain elevator and chemical fertilizer
 plant 
 http://www.kruufm.com/node/17758

 --
 Forwarded message --
 From:
 xyz2041 

 Hi, 
   Fairfield Community Member...

 Here are some
 things we found out just in 
   the pastfew days:

 * Heartland
 Co-op has completed the purchase of 
   160  acres as of April
 2nd.

 * A top-view
 drawing shows that 
   they want to have the  exit directly across from
 Jerry and Marge 
   Leahy's  house.  If built, this
 would make living  
   intolerable for them.  Imagine
 grain dryers 
   running  24 hours a day, trucks and
 trains with their 
   diesel 
 exhaust and noise at all hours.  Here is 
   that  drawing:

     http://A7H.com/TopViewDrawing.gif

 * Heartland is 
   moving quickly and has not publicly  disclosed all the features
 and 
   plans--perhaps in  fear of the backlash it
 would cost if the true 
   size  and scope were
 revealed.

 * The proposed
 project is even 
   bigger than we feared.  In fact, there isn't an
 existing Heartland 
   project  in the same league. 
 They want to build a 
   220-foot  tall and 2-block-long
 structure.  This would be 
   the  tallest structure outside of
 Des Moines or Cedar  
   Rapids!  Here is a "to scale" graphic
 comparing it  to the 
   courthouse:

   http://A7H.com/ComparisonGraphic.gif

 * The Leahy 
   family's 4 homes are directly adjacent
 to  this proposed behemoth, 
   and their quality of life  would be severely affected
 if it is 
   allowed to be  constructed.  Much of
 the community will 
   be  negatively affected, which
 includes people  
   living/working in the eastern half of town.

 * The indirect
 word is that 
   this industrial complex  would be only "Phase
 1" of their 
   plans.  They won't  reveal the rest, but
 possibilities include: 
   ethanol  processing, fertilizer
 processing and storage, and  
   who knows what else!

 We need your
 help!

 We have been
 informed 
   that Section 414.23 of the IowaCode grants the City of Fairfield a

   two-mile"extraterritorial
 jurisdiction" over this 
   project:

   http://TinyURL.com/Iowa-414-23

 This means that
 the 
   Fairfield City Council has thepower to enact ordinances that
 would stop 
   thisproject.

 However, the
 council members and the mayor--just 
   likethe county supervisors--are
 situated between a rockand a hard 
   place.  They want to do what's best
 forFairfield and Jefferson 
   County, but they are unsurewhich direction the majority of
 citizens are 
   leaning.

 We need to show
 them the strength of the oppositionand the 
   determination to preserve the
 environmentallyfriendly way of life and our 
   city's green reputation.This means we absolutely need you
 to 
   help!

 1. The first
 favor we need to ask is very easy.Please sign 
   our online petition asking for
 completestudies on how this proposed 
   industrial plant wouldaffect our quality of 
   life:

   http://TinyURL.com/m4da4v8

 We plan to
 present this to 
   the county supervisorsMonday morning and the city council
 Monday 
   evening.Would you please take 30 seconds to
 sign this rightnow?  
   Thank you!

 2. Thanks to
 everyone who attended the 
   countysupervisors' meetings during
 the past few weeks!  Wehave 
   made an impression.

 As you can see,
 the supervisors would like to 
   avoiddiscussion of the Heartland debacle
 for this 
   week:

   http://www.JeffersonCountyIowa.com/docs/agenda14-04-14.pdf

 A 
   few of us plan to be there just to make
 certainnothing untoward 
   occurs.  So, it's not necessary
 fora large group to 
   attend.

 However, we are
 on the agenda for the city councilmeeting 
   later Monday night at 7 PM:

   http://CityOfFairfieldIowa.com/DocumentCenter/View/1460

 So, 
   we would really need you to come to this
 meeting(Monday, April 14th, 7 PM) 
   and show the council andmayor that we stand for high
 quality living 
   standardsand don't want to have a 220
 ft. industrial complexmarring 
   our beautiful eastern

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: For TMers Only

On 4/14/2014 5:42 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote:

"i never like him he not a good person i think" - manish"
I like the bluntness of this fellow. Often the gut feeling gives more
than enough information to determine who is a real teacher.

>
It is quite refreshing to read these critical comments about MMY and
SSRS - in contrast to the boring posts on this list. Why do you suppose
the informants keep holding back on FFL? This swami has this really
figured out - why fly in the lotus seat when you can keep your feet on
the ground? Go figure.

"I just and only want to recommend everyone to stand with both feet on
the ground of this earth. Why do you want to fly? god gave this job to
the birds, let them fly around while you use your legs! work on peace in
your own heart and you will do a much better contribution to world peace
than by jumping in the Lotus seat, waiting to actually levitate
someday." - Swami Balendu

Shree Bindu Ashram:
http://www.jaisiyaram.com/blog/guru/8266-maharishi-mahesh-yogi-transcendental-meditation-and-yogic-flying-17-jun-11.html

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

MMY and Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, the first pundit boy

Inline image 1

"well said, as SRi Sri Ravi shankar never said who is his Guru but
many people from our movment they know Maharishi Mahesh yogi is his
Guru. and he is using all his knowledge tell to people by him. he is
using all the world of maharishi ji like his holliness maharishi
mahesh mahesh yogi and now he is writing by him self his hollines sri
sri ravi shankar maharishi never said it is his knowledge he always
said it is from his master Gurudev but he is telling to people it is
from him. i never like him he not a good person i think" - manish

http://www.jaisiyaram.com/blog/guru/8266-maharishi-mahesh-yogi-transcendental-meditation-and-yogic-flying-17-jun-11.html

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection
is active.
http://www.avast.com

Re: [FairfieldLife] For TMers Only

A beautiful montage of two frauds.

On Mon, 4/14/14, Pundit Sir  wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] For TMers Only
 To: "Richard J. Williams" 
 Date: Monday, April 14, 2014, 9:25 PM

   MMY and Sri Sri Ravi Shankar,
 the first pundit boy

 "well said, as SRi Sri Ravi shankar never
 said who is his Guru but many people from our movment they
 know Maharishi Mahesh yogi is his Guru. and he is using all
 his knowledge tell to people by him. he is using all the
 world of maharishi ji like his holliness maharishi mahesh
 mahesh yogi and now he is writing by him self his hollines
 sri sri ravi shankar maharishi never said it is his
 knowledge he always said it is from his master Gurudev but
 he is telling to people it is from him. i never like him he
 not a good person i think" - manish

http://www.jaisiyaram.com/blog/guru/8266-maharishi-mahesh-yogi-transcendental-meditation-and-yogic-flying-17-jun-11.html

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Blood Moon is A Comin'

The TM Illuminati are already is their vastu perfect bunkers - what more could 
we want?

On Mon, 4/14/14, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com  wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Blood Moon is A Comin'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, April 14, 2014, 6:43 PM

   Let's have a heyday and
 proclaim the end of the world is nigh and watch all those
 superstitious types dive for their bunkers. Are there any
 bunkers in 
FF?http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/14/blood-moon-lunar-eclipse-john-hagee-end-of-world/7694331/

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

My baby is nearly 14 now and has gauges in her ears, tho from the way she 
buries her nose in all her electronic devices that send texts, I could use 
something to help me communicate w her!

On Mon, 4/14/14, salyavin808  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, April 14, 2014, 8:14 PM

 That's the
 fella. 
 http://www.derekogilvie.com/uk/tbw/tv.htm
 Strange how the TV part of his site doesn't
 mention his trip to Randi's or even that the documentary
 that showed him a good light at the end.
 Are going to go and see him MJ? ;-)

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 wrote :

 Derek Ogilvie ?

  On Mon, 4/14/14, salyavin808 
 wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but
 Placebo Effect?

 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com

 Date: Monday, April 14, 2014, 11:34 AM

 More below..

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,

 wrote :

 From: salyavin808

 To:

 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com

 Sent: Monday,

 April 14, 2014 8:48 AM

 Subject: Re:

 [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo

 Effect?

  Some of the people Randi have had to put up with!

 He had a guy who could turn pages of a book with his mind.

 He'd sit with a book in front of him and the pages turn

 without him touching them! I saw the film

 even. 

 Randi asked

 if him he could do it with a sheet of glass between him and

 the book and he said of course he could. He couldn't

 obviously, how anyone could be so deluded they weren't

 aware they were just breathing on the pages is beyond me.

 The human capacity for self-delusion must be near infinite.

 Which is why believers can't be trusted to examine

 themselves properly.

 He's had harder subjects

 than that though, telepaths and mind readers that turned
 out

 not to be are common as muck, cold readers even if they

 aren't aware that is what they are doing. Loads of them

 still make a living even after they failed in the test
 Randi

 set. "It was set up to fail" they claim

 afterwards. Whereas before they were keen to demonstrate

 their powers under conditions they themselves agreed to. To

 keep their belief in their powers intact they scapegoat

 Randi as unfair. Go figure.

 It's the "When Prophecy Fails" syndrome

 all over again. A prophecy fail makes the TBs believe in it

 even more. Go figure. There is simply no accounting for

 self-importance and an inability to say, "I was

 wrong."

 People

 are willing to come up with so many twisted theories to

 explain *their* mystical experience. And as far as I can

 tell, all of this is driven by self-importance. They're

 declaring "My experience was SPECIAL" (and of

 course, silently saying "And so am I"), and

 they're desperate for any way to "prove" it.

 What such people are unable to cope with is someone hearing

 about "their experience" and saying, "No,

 it's not special at all, and neither are

 you."  

 One of

 the most interesting people that took on the Randi
 challenge

 was a guy who thought he could talk to babies

 telepathically. 

 UK's Channel 5 made a doc about him in their

 "Extraordinary People" strand. The most

 extraordinary thing to me was that anyone thought it was

 possible in the first place, I mean babies don't have

 thoughts and conceptualised desires, they don't even

 have a language at that age!

 None

 of this has stopped the guy making a fortune out of his

 "powers" he still fills halls up and down the

 country with dopey women and their bawling kids where he

 rather obviously cold-reads irrelevant crap about their

 family lives and charges them a fortune to tell them things

 they already know. It's no different than mediums

 preying on the bereaved really. And credit where it's

 due, he was very good at it.

 Anyway, this guy took up James Randi on his offer and

 went to claim his money. Randi interviewed him and they
 came

 up with a test that would showcase his skills. Boy, was
 he

 confident and he really

 thought the money was his. 

 The look on his face when he came out of the

 soundproof room to see how well he'd done and found out

 he'd drawn a complete blank was priceless and he
 accused

 Randi of cheating and setting him up to fail, but we all
 saw

 it. There was no doubt without the parents to talk to he

 couldn't do it.

 So why was it called Extraordinary People and not

 Extraordinary Failures? After his disappointment with Randi

 the documentary makers took him to a

  psychologist rather

 more sympathetic t

Re: [FairfieldLife] An article on the Co$ for those who are interested in cult topics


On 4/14/2014 5:25 PM, Toby Walker wrote:

it's really hard not to troll on FFL

>
You're not even making any sense, Toby. Share is correct, his choice of 
quotes doesn't seem to have anything to do with practicing basic TM. 
It's not complicated.





On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 10:42 AM, Share Long > wrote:




Finally turq, in case you're still here, regardless of your
caveats, I find your choice of quotes from the Scientology article
to be very misleading wrt the TMO.





---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
http://www.avast.com

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Exactly what is "a divinity"? 

 This is where atheists, especially those with pretensions to scientific 
understanding but who are deficient in philosophy, tend to get all tangled up 
and become incoherent, saying things like "I just believe in one less divinity 
than you do."
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 nu·mi·nous = having a strong religious or spiritual quality; indicating or 
suggesting the presence of a divinity.
 Exactly what is a strong religious quality? Exactly what is a spiritual 
quality? How do these two qualities indicate or suggest the presence of a 
divinity? If something is indicated or suggested, is that any reason to assume 
that something is actually there if it has not been directly seen, directly 
experienced.
 

 All that has to be done is demonstrate, unequivocally, what it is that one 
wants others to see, then you have a reason to define and investigate what that 
is. It is not necessary to investigate or define what does not exist, since one 
will never come across a concrete demonstration. One can imagine all sorts of 
things mentally, but never be able to show that those things exist, and as 
such, all such ideas are equivalent in that there is no proof, and no 
possibility of proof that such things have an existence independent of thought. 
There is reason to believe that what we call an elephant exists, even if we do 
not know what it is or have a name for it, it can be experienced through the 
senses, at some point it can be defined, observed, argued about. 
 

 There is a problem when the subject matter at hand is empty, but is presumed 
to be real, such as invisible formless gods, or enlightenment. With gods, we 
have to presume they exist, and are somehow different from us. With 
enlightenment, there is the problem that it really does not exist, but we think 
it does. In this case the spiritual path shows us that the idea of 
enlightenment was an illusion, that what we were seeking was in fact just what 
we always were, not some new thing we have never experienced before. But it 
cannot be proved by argument, one just has to be crazy enough to attempt to 
resolve the issue. In the rarefied atmosphere of abstract theology, if we think 
that union with the god of one's imagination is the equivalent of 
enlightenment, then I suspect there will be a real disappointment because at 
the end of the road, the thing you have to give up is your idea of what that 
god is.

[FairfieldLife] Re: For TMers Only

2014-04-14 Thread nablusoss1008


 "i never like him he not a good person i think" - manish"
 I like the bluntness of this fellow. Often the gut feeling gives more than 
enough information to determine who is a real teacher.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


 MMY and Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, the first pundit boy
 

 

 

 "well said, as SRi Sri Ravi shankar never said who is his Guru but many people 
from our movment they know Maharishi Mahesh yogi is his Guru. and he is using 
all his knowledge tell to people by him. he is using all the world of maharishi 
ji like his holliness maharishi mahesh mahesh yogi and now he is writing by him 
self his hollines sri sri ravi shankar maharishi never said it is his knowledge 
he always said it is from his master Gurudev but he is telling to people it is 
from him. i never like him he not a good person i think" - manish
 

 
http://www.jaisiyaram.com/blog/guru/8266-maharishi-mahesh-yogi-transcendental-meditation-and-yogic-flying-17-jun-11.html
 
http://www.jaisiyaram.com/blog/guru/8266-maharishi-mahesh-yogi-transcendental-meditation-and-yogic-flying-17-jun-11.html

Re: [FairfieldLife] An article on the Co$ for those who are interested in cult topics

2014-04-14 Thread Toby Walker

it's really hard not to troll on FFL


On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 10:42 AM, Share Long  wrote:

>
>
> turq, just to address a few of these points hopefully without shooting the
> messenger:
>
> I've already addressed the point about TMers supposedly being surrounded
> by family. Here I'll just say that any shunning is done by individuals and
> is not an officially suggested behavior, in my experience.
>
> The only words I ever heard Maharishi say that makes TM sound unique was
> in the SCI course when he explained that TM is the system that transcends
> its own activity. That got my attention even though I knew very little
> about spiritual paths. I grokked that it meant that TM would liberate, even
> from itself. I have found this to be true.
>
> People have been and are free to choose that staff lifestyle. I daresay
> many people chose it so that their children could attend the Maharishi
> School. But that was also their choice. As was whether or not they had
> contact with "the outside world." In this case, worldly Fairfield, IA!
>
> No one pressured me to start TM. Plus I never felt pressured to attend any
> course.
>
> Cut off from current events?! Like Jeffrey Smith who's a world renowned
> champion battling GMOs?!
> Plus I find most long term TMers very interested and often engaged in
> current events, like politics. And if the students are so cut off from
> troubles within the org, how come they asked for a meeting about the pandit
> riot?! And got it, I might add.
>
> Again, any lamenting about "bad karma" is done by individuals, probably
> about their friends. I've never known such to be said by TMO leaders and or
> officials.
>
> Finally turq, in case you're still here, regardless of your caveats, I
> find your choice of quotes from the Scientology article to be very
> misleading wrt the TMO.
>
>
>
> Just to anticipate the backlash, certainly not *everything* about the Co$
> reminds me of my time in the TMO. Here are a few quotes from the article
> that did. YMMV.
>
> "Her parents were Scientologists, as were her friends—basically everyone
> she knew. If she left, they’d disown her." [I've seen the "shunning"
> process many times when a former TMer -- especially if they're a famous one
> -- leaves the fold.]
>
> "Founded in 1954, it [the Co$] is a highly insular faith rooted in ideas
> of American self-help and psychotherapy as well as Eastern mysticism. It
> maintains, as many religions do, that society needs healing, and also
> purports to be the only group with a cure." [The funny thing is, I'd have
> little problem with it if either of these groups said 'We have A cure'.
> It's the claiming that they have THE cure, the one and only that is odd.
> That's insular to the max.]
>
> "Sea Org members live deeply controlled lives, working seven days a week
> year-round, with few, if any, days off. They earn between $8 and $50 a
> week, sleep in dormitory housing and have virtually no contact with the
> outside world." [This is pretty much what many people working for "course
> credit" told me life was like in Europe, except that they didn't get $8 a
> week.]
>
> "Scientology’s essential pitch: that society is sick, full of dangers, and
> only the church can offer relief." [There's that "only" again.]
>
> "'They pressure you a lot to join,' she says. 'They’ll tell you how bad
> everything is in the world, and that they really need your help.'" [Anyone
> remember the many "You must go to this course or the world will end"
> speeches from MMY trying to get people to come to the butt-bouncing
> courses?]
>
> "Sea Org members are cut off entirely from current events, in part to
> prevent them from reading negative information about Scientology.
> Schlesinger had no idea Remini had departed, and now she was floored. She’d
> met the Reminis before and thought they were kind people. As she flipped
> through the pages, what she saw was a revelation: They’d broken away
> without fear, and remained intact. Schlesinger thought, Perhaps I can
> leave, too." [Haven't we heard stories here that MUM actively discourages
> student reading of Fairfield Life? Where such stories are told?]
>
> "For those in the Sea Org, there is the inculcated belief that, should
> they go, they’ll live for the rest of eternity as an unhappy spec in the
> universe." [How many times have you heard some long-term TMer lament
> about someone who's left, concerned about the "bad karma" they accrued by
> leaving?]
>   On Friday, April 11, 2014 4:23 AM, TurquoiseBee 
> wrote:
>
>  *From:* TurquoiseBee 
>  *To:* "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" 
> *Sent:* Friday, April 11, 2014 9:56 AM
> *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] An article on the Co$ for those who are
> interested in cult topics
>
>
>  I know that at least a couple of lurkers are interested, because they've
> told me offline that they follow $cientology forums looking for story
> leads. For the TMers here, the story is worth a read to see the
> similarities -- the ways that one cult (the Co$)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

nu·mi·nous = having a strong religious or spiritual quality; indicating or 
suggesting the presence of a divinity.
 Exactly what is a strong religious quality? Exactly what is a spiritual 
quality? How do these two qualities indicate or suggest the presence of a 
divinity? If something is indicated or suggested, is that any reason to assume 
that something is actually there if it has not been directly seen, directly 
experienced.
 

 All that has to be done is demonstrate, unequivocally, what it is that one 
wants others to see, then you have a reason to define and investigate what that 
is. It is not necessary to investigate or define what does not exist, since one 
will never come across a concrete demonstration. One can imagine all sorts of 
things mentally, but never be able to show that those things exist, and as 
such, all such ideas are equivalent in that there is no proof, and no 
possibility of proof that such things have an existence independent of thought. 
There is reason to believe that what we call an elephant exists, even if we do 
not know what it is or have a name for it, it can be experienced through the 
senses, at some point it can be defined, observed, argued about. 
 

 There is a problem when the subject matter at hand is empty, but is presumed 
to be real, such as invisible formless gods, or enlightenment. With gods, we 
have to presume they exist, and are somehow different from us. With 
enlightenment, there is the problem that it really does not exist, but we think 
it does. In this case the spiritual path shows us that the idea of 
enlightenment was an illusion, that what we were seeking was in fact just what 
we always were, not some new thing we have never experienced before. But it 
cannot be proved by argument, one just has to be crazy enough to attempt to 
resolve the issue. In the rarefied atmosphere of abstract theology, if we think 
that union with the god of one's imagination is the equivalent of 
enlightenment, then I suspect there will be a real disappointment because at 
the end of the road, the thing you have to give up is your idea of what that 
god is.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!

This international conference aims to bridge this gap by bringing together 
 ethnologists who have observed the birth and dissemination of these 
 phenomena in their field studies.
 

 The participation of historians and Sanskrit
 scholars will help us to put the historical dimension of these events into
 perspective, while specialists of other cultural arenas, who face similar
 phenomena of appeal to texts, will shed light on the regional specificity of
 these observed social facts.
 

 During the conference, the primary task will be to understand the scope of
 these phenomena, by examining the social identity of the actors involved:
 which groups or individuals contribute to the production of these new forms of
 knowledge? To whom are they addressed? Who are the intermediaries
 involved in the propagation of these ideas? Which groups contest the
 legitimacy of these discourses? In particular, we shall attempt to understand
 how these groups organize themselves institutionally (sects, associations,
 university); their political, religious and associative networks; as well as 
their
 relationship with figures in the Hindu nationalist movement. The sociological
 investigation of these figures shall necessarily take into consideration the 
role
 of Indian diaspora and its transnational networks.
 

 Central to our investigation is a focus on the content of these “new” forms of
 knowledge, and the legitimation strategies that go along with them. Although it
 takes particular forms in the modern world, referencing the Vedas is actually
 an ancient way to affirm the validity of knowledge . How are contemporary
 ways of referring to the Vedas as a legitimating authority different from 
ancient
 ways? In what ways does the attribution “Vedic” help to legitimate particular
 ways of knowing?
 

 This will lead us to question the role of textual authority in
 contemporary Hinduism and its uses as a way of forging new religious 
 identities. If modern science as epistemological authority was amply used by 
 Hindu reformers during colonial times to prove the universal value of 
 Hinduism, how are the “Vedic” and the “scientific” articulated in contemporary 
 discourses and practices?
 
 Participants will also be asked to investigate
 whether the attribution “Vedic” is always used in a “Hindu” context or whether 
it can be a purely commercial term used to sell the “exotic” and the “ancient”
 within India— as in the case of the Vedic City under construction by the Shri
 Infratech group in Greater Noida.
 

 Similarly, the conference will deal with the economy that is generated as these

 ideas spread. Besides the ideological dimension, commercial concerns seem
 to be at the heart of these new phenomena.
 
 “The attribution “Vedic” has
 important commercial implications that should be attentively examined. The
 Vedas are nowadays sold as a commercial item, in the form of printed texts,
 recorded mantras (CD, DVD), or as a packaged tourist destination (Vedic
 schools, Vedic meditations centres). “Vedic” forms of knowledge are also
 extensively commercialized: countless services (consultations, courses,
 stages) and products (Vedic horoscopes, Vedic remedies, Vedic ritual items,
 etc.) are sold through the web. Participants will then be asked to explore the
 social networks, the marketing strategies and the material supports used in
 this “Vedic economy”.
 
 A Lifestyle inspired by the Golden age of the Indian Civilization. 
Chandragupta Maurya ! Ashoka ! Reminiscent of the Golden Age is now a realty. 
Vedic City will be an Epic beginning to a new life.
 
 An Epic beginning to a new life, today we invite you to become a part of that 
mystical grandeur in a Vedic City near you.
 .
 .
 Om S
 

 .

[FairfieldLife] For TMers Only

2014-04-14 Thread Pundit Sir

MMY and Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, the first pundit boy

[image: Inline image 1]

"well said, as SRi Sri Ravi shankar never said who is his Guru but many
people from our movment they know Maharishi Mahesh yogi is his Guru. and he
is using all his knowledge tell to people by him. he is using all the world
of maharishi ji like his holliness maharishi mahesh mahesh yogi and now he
is writing by him self his hollines sri sri ravi shankar maharishi never
said it is his knowledge he always said it is from his master Gurudev but
he is telling to people it is from him. i never like him he not a good
person i think" - manish

http://www.jaisiyaram.com/blog/guru/8266-maharishi-mahesh-yogi-transcendental-meditation-and-yogic-flying-17-jun-11.html

[FairfieldLife] 2019

2014-04-14 Thread srijau

its not the start of something, it should be the midst of it, a very concrete 
loss of either life or a way of life. Look to the great astrologers like VK 
Choudhry to get more understanding. Im not him and I wish to remain anonymous.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous


On 4/14/2014 1:46 PM, TurquoiseBee wrote:
You don't get it, Salyavin. The whole POINT is that people like Fess 
and Judy can complain that other people don't know as much about 
_LEVITATION_  as they do.  :-)

>
"god gave this job to the birds, let them fly around while you use your 
legs! work on peace in your own heart and you will do a much better 
contribution to world peace than by jumping in the Lotus seat, waiting 
to actually levitate someday." - Swami Balendu



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
http://www.avast.com

[FairfieldLife] Re: Ending the Use of Dirty Fuels, Years of Living Dangerously...global warming

We need a revolution in the spiritual outlook of humanity right now. This is 
about public education.
 

 An Entrenched Materialism of our vast human race is the problem at core. The 
problem is fundamentally spiritual.
 

 We Must, End the Use of Dirty Fuels, Now. ..
 http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27008352 
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27008352
 

 The problem is way too beyond just sustainability.

 
 We are talking survival.  As a species.
 It is quite time for a change. Radical change.
 -Buck in the Dome
 

 The World Simply Must
 

 End the Use of Dirty Fuels,
 Rampant Materialism, Hyper-Industrial Production and the Over-consumption of 
the consumer economies of the world at too high a level by too many people to 
be sustainable is the problem.
 

 

 sharelong60 writes: What does the Syrian war, destruction of Indonesian parks 
and Texas have in common?
 The premiere of a new Showtime series, Years of Living Dangerously, 
unexpectedly on global warming. 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ
 
 Its 1 hour. 
 .
 Om Shan
 

 .

[FairfieldLife] Fwd: Tonight! CITY COUNCIL considers proposed grain processing site

2014-04-14 Thread Dick Mays

Forwarded from: "Tim Bowker"  
 
Tonight!  CITY COUNCIL considers proposed grain processing site
 
FAIRFIELD CITY COUNCIL AGENDA
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
April 14, 2014 7:00 P.M.
118 S Main St

 
Blue Zone concerns regarding proposed Heartland Co-Op:
 
http://ia-fairfield.civicplus.com/DocumentCenter/View/1718
 
 
Listen to the following 60-minute KRUU interview Friday afternoon of the 
currently planned grain elevator and chemical fertilizer plant 
http://www.kruufm.com/node/17758
 
 
-- Forwarded message --
From: xyz2041 

Hi, Fairfield Community Member...

Here are some things we found out just in the pastfew days:

* Heartland Co-op has completed the purchase of 160  acres as of April 2nd.

* A top-view drawing shows that they want to have the  exit directly across 
from Jerry and Marge Leahy's  house.  If built, this would make living  
intolerable for them.  Imagine grain dryers running  24 hours a day, trucks and 
trains with their diesel  exhaust and noise at all hours.  Here is that  
drawing:

  http://A7H.com/TopViewDrawing.gif

* Heartland is moving quickly and has not publicly  disclosed all the features 
and plans--perhaps in  fear of the backlash it would cost if the true size  and 
scope were revealed.

* The proposed project is even bigger than we feared.  In fact, there isn't an 
existing Heartland project  in the same league.  They want to build a 220-foot  
tall and 2-block-long structure.  This would be the  tallest structure outside 
of Des Moines or Cedar  Rapids!  Here is a "to scale" graphic comparing it  to 
the courthouse:

http://A7H.com/ComparisonGraphic.gif

* The Leahy family's 4 homes are directly adjacent to  this proposed behemoth, 
and their quality of life  would be severely affected if it is allowed to be  
constructed.  Much of the community will be  negatively affected, which 
includes people  living/working in the eastern half of town.

* The indirect word is that this industrial complex  would be only "Phase 1" of 
their plans.  They won't  reveal the rest, but possibilities include: ethanol  
processing, fertilizer processing and storage, and  who knows what else!

We need your help!

We have been informed that Section 414.23 of the IowaCode grants the City of 
Fairfield a two-mile"extraterritorial jurisdiction" over this project:

http://TinyURL.com/Iowa-414-23

This means that the Fairfield City Council has thepower to enact ordinances 
that would stop thisproject.

However, the council members and the mayor--just likethe county 
supervisors--are situated between a rockand a hard place.  They want to do 
what's best forFairfield and Jefferson County, but they are unsurewhich 
direction the majority of citizens are leaning.

We need to show them the strength of the oppositionand the determination to 
preserve the environmentallyfriendly way of life and our city's green 
reputation.This means we absolutely need you to help!

1. The first favor we need to ask is very easy.Please sign our online petition 
asking for completestudies on how this proposed industrial plant wouldaffect 
our quality oflife:

http://TinyURL.com/m4da4v8

We plan to present this to the county supervisorsMonday morning and the city 
council Monday evening.Would you please take 30 seconds to sign this rightnow?  
Thank you!

2. Thanks to everyone who attended the countysupervisors' meetings during the 
past few weeks!  Wehave made an impression.

As you can see, the supervisors would like to avoiddiscussion of the Heartland 
debacle for this week:

http://www.JeffersonCountyIowa.com/docs/agenda14-04-14.pdf

A few of us plan to be there just to make certainnothing untoward occurs.  So, 
it's not necessary fora large group to attend.

However, we are on the agenda for the city councilmeeting later Monday night at 
7 PM:

http://CityOfFairfieldIowa.com/DocumentCenter/View/1460

So, we would really need you to come to this meeting(Monday, April 14th, 7 PM) 
and show the council andmayor that we stand for high quality living 
standardsand don't want to have a 220 ft. industrial complexmarring our 
beautiful eastern entrance.  The cityshould act to prevent this.

3. Personal contact.  We really appreciate yoursigning the online petition.  
Something that would addto that effect would be to reach out to your 
councilmember, mayor, and county supervisors.  By making apersonal 
contact--either personal visits, letters,email, or phone calls--it will let 
them know thatthere are a great number of people who want them toact to oppose 
this project.  Please be polite,respectful, and appreciative of these public 
servantswho work on behalf of everyone in the city/county.

Would you please pledge to contact at least 3 ofthese people this coming week?

Here are contact details:

Supervisors:

  Lee Dimmitt  1300 W. Jackson Ave.  Fairfield, IA  52556-4251  641-919-9547  
lee.dimm...@jeffersoncountyia.com

 Dick Reed  709 S. Maple St.  Fairfield, IA  52556-3746  641-9

[FairfieldLife] Re: Ending the Use of Dirty Fuels, Years of Living Dangerously...global warming

An Entrenched Materialism of our vast human race is the problem at core. The 
problem is fundamentally spiritual.
 

 End the Use of Dirty Fuels, Now. ..
 http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27008352 
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27008352
 

 The problem is way too beyond just sustainability.

 
 We are talking survival.  As a species.
 It is quite time for a change. Radical change.
 -Buck in the Dome
 

 The World Simply Must
 

 End the Use of Dirty Fuels,
 Rampant Materialism, Hyper-Industrial Production and the Over-consumption of 
the consumer economies of the world at too high a level by too many people to 
be sustainable is the problem.
 

 

 sharelong60 writes: What does the Syrian war, destruction of Indonesian parks 
and Texas have in common?
 The premiere of a new Showtime series, Years of Living Dangerously, 
unexpectedly on global warming. 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ
 
 Its 1 hour. 
 .
 Om Sha
 .

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

BTW, I didn't start this discussion with Salyavin; he did. (There you go, 
Barry, I just saved you an Oopsie.) 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Like Curtis, Salyavin tends to become intellectually dishonest when he 
encounters any kind of conflict. 

 If anyone wants to see why this post of Salyavin's is intellectually 
dishonest, here's the post of mine he was responding to:
 

 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/380512 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/380512

 

 Among other things, I told him explicitly that it was OK if he chose to stick 
with his ignorance. IOW, there was nothing dragging him into continuing the 
discussion. He's made it clear he doesn't want to be bothered informing himself 
about the strongest arguments for theism. That's fine; he's welcome to just 
piddle along striking down straw men left and right and giving himself medals 
for doing so.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 I can't be bothered to get dragged into another yet another tedious groundhog 
day with you.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Er, no. Look, I know it's difficult for you to have your ignorance exposed 
like this 
 

 Yawn.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!

The participation of historians and Sanskrit 
 scholars will help us to put the historical dimension of these events into 
 perspective, while specialists of other cultural arenas, who face similar 
 phenomena of appeal to texts, will shed light on the regional specificity of 
 these observed social facts.
 

 During the conference, the primary task will be to understand the scope of
 these phenomena, by examining the social identity of the actors involved:
 which groups or individuals contribute to the production of these new forms of
 knowledge? To whom are they addressed? Who are the intermediaries
 involved in the propagation of these ideas? Which groups contest the
 legitimacy of these discourses? In particular, we shall attempt to understand
 how these groups organize themselves institutionally (sects, associations,
 university); their political, religious and associative networks; as well as 
their
 relationship with figures in the Hindu nationalist movement. The sociological
 investigation of these figures shall necessarily take into consideration the 
role
 of Indian diaspora and its transnational networks.
 

 Central to our investigation is a focus on the content of these “new” forms of
 knowledge, and the legitimation strategies that go along with them. Although it
 takes particular forms in the modern world, referencing the Vedas is actually
 an ancient way to affirm the validity of knowledge . How are contemporary
 ways of referring to the Vedas as a legitimating authority different from 
ancient
 ways? In what ways does the attribution “Vedic” help to legitimate particular
 ways of knowing?
 

 This will lead us to question the role of textual authority in
 contemporary Hinduism and its uses as a way of forging new religious 
 identities. If modern science as epistemological authority was amply used by 
 Hindu reformers during colonial times to prove the universal value of 
 Hinduism, how are the “Vedic” and the “scientific” articulated in contemporary 
 discourses and practices?
 
 Participants will also be asked to investigate
 whether the attribution “Vedic” is always used in a “Hindu” context or whether 
it can be a purely commercial term used to sell the “exotic” and the “ancient”
 within India— as in the case of the Vedic City under construction by the Shri
 Infratech group in Greater Noida.
 

 Similarly, the conference will deal with the economy that is generated as these

 ideas spread. Besides the ideological dimension, commercial concerns seem
 to be at the heart of these new phenomena.
 
 “The attribution “Vedic” has
 important commercial implications that should be attentively examined. The
 Vedas are nowadays sold as a commercial item, in the form of printed texts,
 recorded mantras (CD, DVD), or as a packaged tourist destination (Vedic
 schools, Vedic meditations centres). “Vedic” forms of knowledge are also
 extensively commercialized: countless services (consultations, courses,
 stages) and products (Vedic horoscopes, Vedic remedies, Vedic ritual items,
 etc.) are sold through the web. Participants will then be asked to explore the
 social networks, the marketing strategies and the material supports used in
 this “Vedic economy”.
 
 A Lifestyle inspired by the Golden age of the Indian Civilization. 
Chandragupta Maurya ! Ashoka ! Reminiscent of the Golden Age is now a realty. 
Vedic City will be an Epic beginning to a new life.
 
 An Epic beginning to a new life, today we invite you to become a part of that 
mystical grandeur in a Vedic City near you.
 .
 .
 Om
 .

[FairfieldLife] Re: Ending the Use of Dirty Fuels, Years of Living Dangerously...global warming

End the Use of Dirty Fuels, Now. .. 
 http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27008352 
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27008352
 

 The problem is way too beyond just sustainability.

 
 We are talking survival.  As a species.
 It is quite time for a change. Radical change.
 -Buck in the Dome
 

 The World Simply Must
 

 End the Use of Dirty Fuels,
 Rampant Materialism, Hyper-Industrial Production and the Over-consumption of 
the consumer economies of the world at too high a level by too many people to 
be sustainable is the problem.
 

 

 sharelong60 writes: What does the Syrian war, destruction of Indonesian parks 
and Texas have in common?
 The premiere of a new Showtime series, Years of Living Dangerously, 
unexpectedly on global warming. 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ
 
 Its 1 hour. 
 .
 Om Sh

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Like Curtis, Salyavin tends to become intellectually dishonest when he 
encounters any kind of conflict. 

 If anyone wants to see why this post of Salyavin's is intellectually 
dishonest, here's the post of mine he was responding to:
 

 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/380512 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/380512

 

 Among other things, I told him explicitly that it was OK if he chose to stick 
with his ignorance. IOW, there was nothing dragging him into continuing the 
discussion. He's made it clear he doesn't want to be bothered informing himself 
about the strongest arguments for theism. That's fine; he's welcome to just 
piddle along striking down straw men left and right and giving himself medals 
for doing so.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 I can't be bothered to get dragged into another yet another tedious groundhog 
day with you.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Er, no. Look, I know it's difficult for you to have your ignorance exposed 
like this 
 

 Yawn.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Uh, what?? You're waiting on a treatise from me on why scientific methods are 
inadequate compared to classical theism? 

 That's sort of like waiting for a treatise on why a pregnancy test is 
inadequate compared to the Pythagorean Theorem.
 

 
 

 I'm going to stay optimistic and wait for a treatise on how modern scientific 
methods are inadequate compared to classical theism. We might have a long wait 
but I'm sure she can do something other than scoff. Maybe.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

salyavin, ok, here's a comment and question for you: you mention that there's 
all these addictive chemicals in our brain. Fascinating! Do they have survival 
value?  And if they increase with certain experiences, why? More survival 
value? 

Previously you mentioned something about several brain areas coming on line to 
produce an experience. And in your case, it felt profound and wise, etc. You 
remembered it. So again I ask why and theorize that the reason is simple: it 
has survival value.

Yikes! I hope it's not just the bacteria and or DNA for which it has survival 
value!


On Monday, April 14, 2014 11:55 AM, salyavin808  
wrote:
 
  




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


salyavin, yes, I like your last paragraph about depth recognition getting 
crossed with reward center for pleasure. Now here's the next important step I 
think: does that have lasting value for life? Because if it does, then for me 
it doesn't matter how it came about, as long as it didn't involve hurting other 
life. Nor does it matter if we call it "God" or silly putty or brain upper 
right quadrant firing. If it has lasting value for life (and yes, how would we 
operationally define that?) let's go for it!

I thought that's what we were doing with whatever we do. No it doesn't matter 
what you call it, pleasure is pleasure. I mentioned before about a TM inspired 
flash of enlightenment that I'm not sure if it's a good long term proposition. 
Does it ever get boring? I know that taking hallucinogens does, maybe 
enlightenment is a drag after a while.

But the hunger for it is addictive, we have all sorts of addictive chemicals in 
our brains you know, they usually get regulated but in mystical states maybe we 
get a higher dose. 

Judy was right, I meant to ask you: how do you now assess your early mystical 
experience.  


Ah, I still get that stunned feeling that hits you in your gut and that sense 
of wonder about just...how? How there can be two worlds when I only usually see 
one, and what I always get with mystical stuff - meditation or drug inspired - 
why is it so profound. Why the god feeling or sense of impending ultimate 
wisdom?

I think I've already explained it, kind of, the general idea anyway. But it's 
still cool to be in possession of a head that does stuff like that even though 
I'd bet money on it being a mental synapse dysfunction of some sort.

Either that or I'm the new messiah. 

On Monday, April 14, 2014 10:02 AM, salyavin808  
wrote:

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: salyavin808 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 8:31 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

   LOL. So lets get this straight, I've got to have an argument against every 
ancient Greek or philosopher you can think of or you'll claim I've "wimped 
out". 

 But you aren't ever going to explain what you mean! That's funny!

 Sounds like you've got a perfect "I win every argument" clause, just what you 
always wanted!

 Exactly.

The last refuge of the feeble-minded. Claim to know more than other people, and 
refuse to ever explain what you "know." 

The fascinating thing is that some people actually fall for this turd in the 
punchbowl.  :-)

 I'm going to stay optimistic and wait for a treatise on how modern scientific 
methods are inadequate compared to classical theism. We might have a long wait 
but I'm sure she can do something other than scoff. Maybe.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous


 I can't be bothered to get dragged into another yet another tedious groundhog 
day with you.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Er, no. Look, I know it's difficult for you to have your ignorance exposed 
like this 
 

 Yawn.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?


 That's the fella. 
 

 http://www.derekogilvie.com/uk/tbw/tv.htm 
http://www.derekogilvie.com/uk/tbw/tv.htm
 

 Strange how the TV part of his site doesn't mention his trip to Randi's or 
even that the documentary that showed him a good light at the end.
 

 Are going to go and see him MJ? ;-)

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Derek Ogilvie ?
 
 On Mon, 4/14/14, salyavin808 mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, April 14, 2014, 11:34 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 More below..
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 

 wrote :
 
 From: salyavin808
 mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
 To:
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday,
 April 14, 2014 8:48 AM
 Subject: Re:
 [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo
 Effect?
 
 
  Some of the people Randi have had to put up with!
 He had a guy who could turn pages of a book with his mind.
 He'd sit with a book in front of him and the pages turn
 without him touching them! I saw the film
 even. 
 Randi asked
 if him he could do it with a sheet of glass between him and
 the book and he said of course he could. He couldn't
 obviously, how anyone could be so deluded they weren't
 aware they were just breathing on the pages is beyond me.
 The human capacity for self-delusion must be near infinite.
 Which is why believers can't be trusted to examine
 themselves properly.
 He's had harder subjects
 than that though, telepaths and mind readers that turned out
 not to be are common as muck, cold readers even if they
 aren't aware that is what they are doing. Loads of them
 still make a living even after they failed in the test Randi
 set. "It was set up to fail" they claim
 afterwards. Whereas before they were keen to demonstrate
 their powers under conditions they themselves agreed to. To
 keep their belief in their powers intact they scapegoat
 Randi as unfair. Go figure.
 
 It's the "When Prophecy Fails" syndrome
 all over again. A prophecy fail makes the TBs believe in it
 even more. Go figure. There is simply no accounting for
 self-importance and an inability to say, "I was
 wrong."
 
 People
 are willing to come up with so many twisted theories to
 explain *their* mystical experience. And as far as I can
 tell, all of this is driven by self-importance. They're
 declaring "My experience was SPECIAL" (and of
 course, silently saying "And so am I"), and
 they're desperate for any way to "prove" it.
 What such people are unable to cope with is someone hearing
 about "their experience" and saying, "No,
 it's not special at all, and neither are
 you."  
 
 
 One of
 the most interesting people that took on the Randi challenge
 was a guy who thought he could talk to babies
 telepathically. 
 UK's Channel 5 made a doc about him in their
 "Extraordinary People" strand. The most
 extraordinary thing to me was that anyone thought it was
 possible in the first place, I mean babies don't have
 thoughts and conceptualised desires, they don't even
 have a language at that age!
 None
 of this has stopped the guy making a fortune out of his
 "powers" he still fills halls up and down the
 country with dopey women and their bawling kids where he
 rather obviously cold-reads irrelevant crap about their
 family lives and charges them a fortune to tell them things
 they already know. It's no different than mediums
 preying on the bereaved really. And credit where it's
 due, he was very good at it.
 Anyway, this guy took up James Randi on his offer and
 went to claim his money. Randi interviewed him and they came
 up with a test that would showcase his skills. Boy, was he
 confident and he really
 thought the money was his. 
 The look on his face when he came out of the
 soundproof room to see how well he'd done and found out
 he'd drawn a complete blank was priceless and he accused
 Randi of cheating and setting him up to fail, but we all saw
 it. There was no doubt without the parents to talk to he
 couldn't do it.
 So why was it called Extraordinary People and not
 Extraordinary Failures? After his disappointment with Randi
 the documentary makers took him to a
  psychologist rather
 more sympathetic to claims of this kind (you
 can see the problem there) who did an EGG of him when he was
 in his cold-reading trancey state and declared that he was
 using his brain in a way that he'd never seen before.
 And it was interesting but looked like he'd simply
 started using another brain section for his trick, maybe one
 that gets used in altered states? 
 Anyway, this was taken as confirmation that he really
 did have a special supernatural skill even though it
 completely ignored all the other evidence of cold-reading
 and his failure at Randi's

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

Derek Ogilvie ?

On Mon, 4/14/14, salyavin808  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, April 14, 2014, 11:34 AM

 More below..

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 wrote :

 From: salyavin808

  To:
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday,
 April 14, 2014 8:48 AM
  Subject: Re:
 [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo
 Effect?

  Some of the people Randi have had to put up with!
 He had a guy who could turn pages of a book with his mind.
 He'd sit with a book in front of him and the pages turn
 without him touching them! I saw the film
 even. 
 Randi asked
 if him he could do it with a sheet of glass between him and
 the book and he said of course he could. He couldn't
 obviously, how anyone could be so deluded they weren't
 aware they were just breathing on the pages is beyond me.
 The human capacity for self-delusion must be near infinite.
 Which is why believers can't be trusted to examine
 themselves properly.
 He's had harder subjects
 than that though, telepaths and mind readers that turned out
 not to be are common as muck, cold readers even if they
 aren't aware that is what they are doing. Loads of them
 still make a living even after they failed in the test Randi
 set. "It was set up to fail" they claim
 afterwards. Whereas before they were keen to demonstrate
 their powers under conditions they themselves agreed to. To
 keep their belief in their powers intact they scapegoat
 Randi as unfair. Go figure.

 It's the "When Prophecy Fails" syndrome
 all over again. A prophecy fail makes the TBs believe in it
 even more. Go figure. There is simply no accounting for
 self-importance and an inability to say, "I was
 wrong."

 People
 are willing to come up with so many twisted theories to
 explain *their* mystical experience. And as far as I can
 tell, all of this is driven by self-importance. They're
 declaring "My experience was SPECIAL" (and of
 course, silently saying "And so am I"), and
 they're desperate for any way to "prove" it.
 What such people are unable to cope with is someone hearing
 about "their experience" and saying, "No,
 it's not special at all, and neither are
 you."  

 One of
 the most interesting people that took on the Randi challenge
 was a guy who thought he could talk to babies
 telepathically. 
 UK's Channel 5 made a doc about him in their
 "Extraordinary People" strand. The most
 extraordinary thing to me was that anyone thought it was
 possible in the first place, I mean babies don't have
 thoughts and conceptualised desires, they don't even
 have a language at that age!
 None
 of this has stopped the guy making a fortune out of his
 "powers" he still fills halls up and down the
 country with dopey women and their bawling kids where he
 rather obviously cold-reads irrelevant crap about their
 family lives and charges them a fortune to tell them things
 they already know. It's no different than mediums
 preying on the bereaved really. And credit where it's
 due, he was very good at it.
 Anyway, this guy took up James Randi on his offer and
 went to claim his money. Randi interviewed him and they came
 up with a test that would showcase his skills. Boy, was he
 confident and he really
 thought the money was his. 
 The look on his face when he came out of the
 soundproof room to see how well he'd done and found out
 he'd drawn a complete blank was priceless and he accused
 Randi of cheating and setting him up to fail, but we all saw
 it. There was no doubt without the parents to talk to he
 couldn't do it.
 So why was it called Extraordinary People and not
 Extraordinary Failures? After his disappointment with Randi
 the documentary makers took him to a
  psychologist rather
 more sympathetic to claims of this kind (you
 can see the problem there) who did an EGG of him when he was
 in his cold-reading trancey state and declared that he was
 using his brain in a way that he'd never seen before.
 And it was interesting but looked like he'd simply
 started using another brain section for his trick, maybe one
 that gets used in altered states? 
 Anyway, this was taken as confirmation that he really
 did have a special supernatural skill even though it
 completely ignored all the other evidence of cold-reading
 and his failure at Randi's lab. To me it was a fine
 cautionary tale about trusting sympathetic scientists* and
 the willingness to believe.
 The
 guy still makes a living conning money out of gullible young
 mothers and James Randi held on to his $ million.

 *And
 clueless documentary makers.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Third Opsie! for Barry today. He seems to have missed the fact that I've 
referred Salyavin to sources that do explain what I mean, but that Salyavin has 
refused to read. Which one of us is feeble-minded, again?
 

 Pretty funny charge coming from a person who lacks the intellect to understand 
those sources even if he were to read them.
 

 

 

 The last refuge of the feeble-minded. Claim to know more than other people, 
and refuse to ever explain what you "know." 

The fascinating thing is that some people actually fall for this turd in the 
punchbowl.  :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

(Feser, not Fess.) Yes, if you want a really comprehensive understanding of 
classical theism, you have to do a whole lot of reading (and pondering). But 
you could have gotten a general idea of why the "one god less" gambit is 
incoherent with regard to the God of classical theism by reading the first 
couple of posts on that page. 

 This isn't about physics or Steven Hawking, so any mistakes he may have made 
about those are irrelevant to this discussion. And he has no problem with 
evolutionary theory, so that's irrelevant too.
 

 I'd be interested if you could cite the points of Aquinas that are out of 
date. You made one big blooper in our argument awhile back about an assumption 
you attributed to Aquinas that he didn't make; I can't remember what it was 
now. But I doubt that any of his assumptions that were out of date, if any, 
would have any negative impact on his argument for theism.
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Oh god, not Ed Fess again. No, that isn't a good place to start. I read his 
blog once and had a laugh at a few errors about physics and Steven Hawking but 
most of it seems based on other things you have to read, like there's some vast 
esoteric store of knowledge that you have to adopt. Why bother when we have 
easier ways, unless he thinks them inadequate? 
 Most of what he has to say about Thomas Aquinas (I think it was) is 
interesting but hopelessly out of date, I'm sure TA would have been the first 
to admit it and would love the new developments in cosmology, I imagine any 
philosopher would be happy to have the most advanced knowledge. They didn't 
have any data gathering methods in those days, so they had to rely on what they 
thought about things, without scientific method they had no way of testing what 
they thought - if you even can. And if you can't what use is it? 

 

 Maybe if you can provide a link to a critique by Ed Fess of physics or 
evolutionary theory showing why they are inadequate, instead of him merely 
complaining that atheists don't know as much about Greek philosophy as he does?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 P.S.: Here's a good place to start: 
 http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/search?q=%22one+god+less%22 
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/search?q=%22one+god+less%22

 

 Note: Feser does not use the male pronoun to refer to God because he believes 
God has a gender; he does not. IMHO, his arguments would be clearer to the 
uninitiated if he used "It" instead of "He."
 


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I believe I've already explained why "one god less" is incoherent, in the 
process exposing all kinds of ideas you had about what God is said to be that 
are refuted by classical theism (the strongest argument for theism). As I 
recall, you wimped out of that discussion when it got tough, as you often do 
(see our exchange about Susan Blackmore for another instance). 

 Classical theism is a complex and demanding argument, both to explain and to 
understand. I wouldn't attempt it on a forum like this. But I can (already 
have, I think) pointed you to online sources and at least one book where you 
could begin to educate yourself as to what you're really up against.
 

 I predict you won't bother, though. You prefer to remain ignorant because that 
allows you to believe you've done the job by refuting the weaker arguments.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yawn. Wake me up when you've actually posted a strong argument for "that" idea.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 It really is astounding, Salyavin, how willing--almost eager--you are to 
flaunt your ignorance. 

 See, here's the thing: If you want to make a credible argument against an idea 
(any idea), you need to address the strongest argument for that idea. That's 
just common sense. Now, if you don't even know what the strongest argument for 
the idea is, you are, to say the least, at a significant disadvantage in 
arguing against it.
 

 That's why philosophers of religion (many if not most of whom are a whole lot 
smarter and better educated than either you or I, or Curtis, for that matter) 
just laugh at Dawkins and the other ignorant New Atheists. If they can't be 
bothered even to inform themselves about the strongest arguments for theism, 
let alone address those arguments, there's really no reason to take them 
seriously.
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 You may want to massage this thesis a bit, Salyavin, because it doesn't make a 
lot of sense as you've written it. 

 Although Curtis was a philosophy major at MIU (as I recall), he seemed to be 
missing a whole chunk of philosophical theology, as Dawkins is. Anybody who 
would use the "I just believe in one god less" gambit thinking it was a 
coherent defense of atheism did not have a complete philosophical education.
 
Thanks for the tip. I'll file it under belief in fai

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Er, no. Look, I know it's difficult for you to have your ignorance exposed like 
this (and obviously even more difficult for Barry to watch), but lame smart 
cracks really don't help you out, they just make you look more desperate. (Is 
Susan Blackmore an ancient Greek philosopher?) 

 Clearly I can't claim to have "won the argument" when you haven't made one for 
me to win. I pointed you to where you could learn something on which to base an 
argument, but you are, as I said, content with your ignorance. That's OK; you 
get to make that choice. But you can't claim to have won the antitheism 
argument if you not only haven't engaged with the strongest argument for theism 
but don't even know what it is (nor can Curtis nor can Dawkins and his crew).
 

 I already pointed out that I'd made a good start on showing that the "one god 
less" argument was incoherent, basically a straw-man argument because it 
demolishes assumptions about what God is said to be that classical theism does 
not propose in the first place (indeed, in most cases it makes the opposite 
assumptions). But again, you aren't even willing to look at the classical 
theist argument to see what kind of God it's arguing for. The God of classical 
theism is not a being, as the "one god less" argument assumes; it is Being 
Itself. That's really where you need to start, with the reasoning for the Being 
Itself assumption: what it means, what it implies.
 

 I've also already explained that classical theism is a complex and demanding 
argument both to make and to understand, and that I wasn't going to attempt it 
on a Web forum because I couldn't possibly do it justice. That's a perfectly 
reasonable position when there are plenty of sources on the Web that do do it 
justice. So even that smart crack just makes you look silly.
 
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 LOL. So lets get this straight, I've got to have an argument against every 
ancient Greek or philosopher you can think of or you'll claim I've "wimped 
out". 
 

 But you aren't ever going to explain what you mean! That's funny!
 

 Sounds like you've got a perfect "I win every argument" clause, just what you 
always wanted!
 

 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I believe I've already explained why "one god less" is incoherent, in the 
process exposing all kinds of ideas you had about what God is said to be that 
are refuted by classical theism (the strongest argument for theism). As I 
recall, you wimped out of that discussion when it got tough, as you often do 
(see our exchange about Susan Blackmore for another instance). 

 Classical theism is a complex and demanding argument, both to explain and to 
understand. I wouldn't attempt it on a forum like this. But I can (already 
have, I think) pointed you to online sources and at least one book where you 
could begin to educate yourself as to what you're really up against.
 

 I predict you won't bother, though. You prefer to remain ignorant because that 
allows you to believe you've done the job by refuting the weaker arguments.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yawn. Wake me up when you've actually posted a strong argument for "that" idea.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 It really is astounding, Salyavin, how willing--almost eager--you are to 
flaunt your ignorance. 

 See, here's the thing: If you want to make a credible argument against an idea 
(any idea), you need to address the strongest argument for that idea. That's 
just common sense. Now, if you don't even know what the strongest argument for 
the idea is, you are, to say the least, at a significant disadvantage in 
arguing against it.
 

 That's why philosophers of religion (many if not most of whom are a whole lot 
smarter and better educated than either you or I, or Curtis, for that matter) 
just laugh at Dawkins and the other ignorant New Atheists. If they can't be 
bothered even to inform themselves about the strongest arguments for theism, 
let alone address those arguments, there's really no reason to take them 
seriously.
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 You may want to massage this thesis a bit, Salyavin, because it doesn't make a 
lot of sense as you've written it. 

 Although Curtis was a philosophy major at MIU (as I recall), he seemed to be 
missing a whole chunk of philosophical theology, as Dawkins is. Anybody who 
would use the "I just believe in one god less" gambit thinking it was a 
coherent defense of atheism did not have a complete philosophical education.
 
Thanks for the tip. I'll file it under belief in fairies. Some people get 
intensely philosophical about those too.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Shoe Thrown at Hillary


On 4/14/2014 1:12 PM, Mike Dixon wrote:
I know. Had it hit her, it would have made her a more sympathetic 
figure. As it is, it's just funny.

>
If it had hit her, she would have blamed it on a YouTube video.

On Sunday, April 13, 2014 9:55 PM, "jr_...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:
It's a good thing the thrower missed.  Hillary didn't even know it was 
coming.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16T6UJW5oWY




---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
http://www.avast.com

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous


On 4/14/2014 12:47 PM, salyavin808 wrote:


Wouldn't it be funny if TM researchers undermined the whole 
philosophical fabric of their own beliefs. That's be true science!

>
That's sort of what has become of the internet. The goal was to have 
everything connected, networked, so we could all share information on 
the highway. Now, we've got a network where they know everything and 
every connection you make. We are so connected that we will soon be just 
another data point on the network - the connectivity becomes a highway 
straight into their data bank.



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
http://www.avast.com

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

From: salyavin808 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 8:31 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

LOL. So lets get this straight, I've got to have an argument against every 
ancient Greek or philosopher you can think of or you'll claim I've "wimped 
out". 

But you aren't ever going to explain what you mean! That's funny!

Sounds like you've got a perfect "I win every argument" clause, just what you 
always wanted!

Exactly.

The last refuge of the feeble-minded. Claim to know more than other people, and 
refuse to ever explain what you "know." 

The fascinating thing is that some people actually fall for this turd in the 
punchbowl.  :-)

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

I believe I've already explained why "one god less" is incoherent, in the 
process exposing all kinds of ideas you had about what God is said to be that 
are refuted by classical theism (the strongest argument for theism). As I 
recall, you wimped out of that discussion when it got tough, as you often do 
(see our exchange about Susan Blackmore for another instance).

Classical theism is a complex and demanding argument, both to explain and to 
understand. I wouldn't attempt it on a forum like this. But I can (already 
have, I think) pointed you to online sources and at least one book where you 
could begin to educate yourself as to what you're really up against.

I predict you won't bother, though. You prefer to remain ignorant because that 
allows you to believe you've done the job by refuting the weaker arguments.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Yawn. Wake me up when you've actually posted a strong argument for "that" idea.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

It really is astounding, Salyavin, how willing--almost eager--you are to flaunt 
your ignorance.

See, here's the thing: If you want to make a credible argument against an idea 
(any idea), you need to address the strongest argument for that idea. That's 
just common sense. Now, if you don't even know what the strongest argument for 
the idea is, you are, to say the least, at a significant disadvantage in 
arguing against it.

That's why philosophers of religion (many if not most of whom are a whole lot 
smarter and better educated than either you or I, or Curtis, for that matter) 
just laugh at Dawkins and the other ignorant New Atheists. If they can't be 
bothered even to inform themselves about the strongest arguments for theism, 
let alone address those arguments, there's really no reason to take them 
seriously.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

You may want to massage this thesis a bit, Salyavin, because it doesn't make a 
lot of sense as you've written it.

Although Curtis was a philosophy major at MIU (as I recall), he seemed to be 
missing a whole chunk of philosophical theology, as Dawkins is. Anybody who 
would use the "I just believe in one god less" gambit thinking it was a 
coherent defense of atheism did not have a complete philosophical education.

Thanks for the tip. I'll file it under belief in fairies. Some people get 
intensely philosophical about those too.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

From: salyavin808 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 8:06 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Oh god, not Ed Fess again. No, that isn't a good place to start. I read his 
blog once and had a laugh at a few errors about physics and Steven Hawking but 
most of it seems based on other things you have to read, like there's some vast 
esoteric store of knowledge that you have to adopt. Why bother when we have 
easier ways, unless he thinks them inadequate?

Most of what he has to say about Thomas Aquinas (I think it was) is interesting 
but hopelessly out of date, I'm sure TA would have been the first to admit it 
and would love the new developments in cosmology, I imagine any philosopher 
would be happy to have the most advanced knowledge. They didn't have any data 
gathering methods in those days, so they had to rely on what they thought about 
things, without scientific method they had no way of testing what they thought 
- if you even can. And if you can't what use is it? 

Maybe if you can provide a link to a critique by Ed Fess of physics or 
evolutionary theory showing why they are inadequate, instead of him merely 
complaining that atheists don't know as much about Greek philosophy as he does?

You don't get it, Salyavin. The whole POINT is that people like Fess and Judy 
can complain that other people don't know as much about   as they do.  :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Ending the Use of Dirty Fuels, Years of Living Dangerously...global warming

The problem is way too beyond just sustainability.
 
 We are talking survival.  As a species.
 It is quite time for a change. Radical change.
 -Buck in the Dome
 

 The World Simply Must
 

 End the Use of Dirty Fuels,
 Rampant Materialism, Hyper-Industrial Production and the Over-consumption of 
the consumer economies of the world at too high a level by too many people to 
be sustainable is the problem.
 

 

 sharelong60 writes: What does the Syrian war, destruction of Indonesian parks 
and Texas have in common?
 The premiere of a new Showtime series, Years of Living Dangerously, 
unexpectedly on global warming. 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ
 
 Its 1 hour. 
 .
 Om S

[FairfieldLife] The Blood Moon is A Comin'

2014-04-14 Thread awoelflebater

Let's have a heyday and proclaim the end of the world is nigh and watch all 
those superstitious types dive for their bunkers. Are there any bunkers in FF? 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/14/blood-moon-lunar-eclipse-john-hagee-end-of-world/7694331/
 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/14/blood-moon-lunar-eclipse-john-hagee-end-of-world/7694331/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!

During the conference, the primary task will be to understand the scope of 
 these phenomena, by examining the social identity of the actors involved: 
 which groups or individuals contribute to the production of these new forms of 
 knowledge? To whom are they addressed? Who are the intermediaries 
 involved in the propagation of these ideas? Which groups contest the 
 legitimacy of these discourses? In particular, we shall attempt to understand 
 how these groups organize themselves institutionally (sects, associations, 
 university); their political, religious and associative networks; as well as 
their 
 relationship with figures in the Hindu nationalist movement. The sociological 
 investigation of these figures shall necessarily take into consideration the 
role 
 of Indian diaspora and its transnational networks.
 

 Central to our investigation is a focus on the content of these “new” forms of
 knowledge, and the legitimation strategies that go along with them. Although it
 takes particular forms in the modern world, referencing the Vedas is actually
 an ancient way to affirm the validity of knowledge . How are contemporary
 ways of referring to the Vedas as a legitimating authority different from 
ancient
 ways? In what ways does the attribution “Vedic” help to legitimate particular
 ways of knowing?
 

 This will lead us to question the role of textual authority in
 contemporary Hinduism and its uses as a way of forging new religious 
 identities. If modern science as epistemological authority was amply used by 
 Hindu reformers during colonial times to prove the universal value of 
 Hinduism, how are the “Vedic” and the “scientific” articulated in contemporary 
 discourses and practices?
 
 Participants will also be asked to investigate
 whether the attribution “Vedic” is always used in a “Hindu” context or whether 
it can be a purely commercial term used to sell the “exotic” and the “ancient”
 within India— as in the case of the Vedic City under construction by the Shri
 Infratech group in Greater Noida.
 

 Similarly, the conference will deal with the economy that is generated as these

 ideas spread. Besides the ideological dimension, commercial concerns seem
 to be at the heart of these new phenomena.
 
 “The attribution “Vedic” has
 important commercial implications that should be attentively examined. The
 Vedas are nowadays sold as a commercial item, in the form of printed texts,
 recorded mantras (CD, DVD), or as a packaged tourist destination (Vedic
 schools, Vedic meditations centres). “Vedic” forms of knowledge are also
 extensively commercialized: countless services (consultations, courses,
 stages) and products (Vedic horoscopes, Vedic remedies, Vedic ritual items,
 etc.) are sold through the web. Participants will then be asked to explore the
 social networks, the marketing strategies and the material supports used in
 this “Vedic economy”.
 
 A Lifestyle inspired by the Golden age of the Indian Civilization. 
Chandragupta Maurya ! Ashoka ! Reminiscent of the Golden Age is now a realty. 
Vedic City will be an Epic beginning to a new life.
 
 An Epic beginning to a new life, today we invite you to become a part of that 
mystical grandeur in a Vedic City near you.
 .
 .
 Om

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous


 LOL. So lets get this straight, I've got to have an argument against every 
ancient Greek or philosopher you can think of or you'll claim I've "wimped 
out". 
 

 But you aren't ever going to explain what you mean! That's funny!
 

 Sounds like you've got a perfect "I win every argument" clause, just what you 
always wanted!
 

 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I believe I've already explained why "one god less" is incoherent, in the 
process exposing all kinds of ideas you had about what God is said to be that 
are refuted by classical theism (the strongest argument for theism). As I 
recall, you wimped out of that discussion when it got tough, as you often do 
(see our exchange about Susan Blackmore for another instance). 

 Classical theism is a complex and demanding argument, both to explain and to 
understand. I wouldn't attempt it on a forum like this. But I can (already 
have, I think) pointed you to online sources and at least one book where you 
could begin to educate yourself as to what you're really up against.
 

 I predict you won't bother, though. You prefer to remain ignorant because that 
allows you to believe you've done the job by refuting the weaker arguments.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yawn. Wake me up when you've actually posted a strong argument for "that" idea.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 It really is astounding, Salyavin, how willing--almost eager--you are to 
flaunt your ignorance. 

 See, here's the thing: If you want to make a credible argument against an idea 
(any idea), you need to address the strongest argument for that idea. That's 
just common sense. Now, if you don't even know what the strongest argument for 
the idea is, you are, to say the least, at a significant disadvantage in 
arguing against it.
 

 That's why philosophers of religion (many if not most of whom are a whole lot 
smarter and better educated than either you or I, or Curtis, for that matter) 
just laugh at Dawkins and the other ignorant New Atheists. If they can't be 
bothered even to inform themselves about the strongest arguments for theism, 
let alone address those arguments, there's really no reason to take them 
seriously.
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 You may want to massage this thesis a bit, Salyavin, because it doesn't make a 
lot of sense as you've written it. 

 Although Curtis was a philosophy major at MIU (as I recall), he seemed to be 
missing a whole chunk of philosophical theology, as Dawkins is. Anybody who 
would use the "I just believe in one god less" gambit thinking it was a 
coherent defense of atheism did not have a complete philosophical education.
 
Thanks for the tip. I'll file it under belief in fairies. Some people get 
intensely philosophical about those too.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ending the Use of Dirty Fuels, Years of Living Dangerously...global warming

Mike, as soon as I get the Cliff notes, I'll bung 'em along (-:


On Monday, April 14, 2014 1:20 PM, Mike Dixon  wrote:
 
  
C'mon Share, give us a break. I don't want to watch a full hour to see what  
the Syrian war, Indonesian parks and Texas have in common. Please give us the 
Cliff notes for dummies.
On Monday, April 14, 2014 10:59 AM, "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:
 
  
It is quite time for a change.  Radical change.
-Buck in the Dome


The World Simply Must


End the Use of Dirty Fuels,
Rampant Materialism, Hyper-Industrial Production and the
Over-consumption of the consumer economies of the world at too high a
level by too many people to be sustainable is the problem.

sharelong60 writes: What does the Syrian war, destruction of
Indonesian parks and Texas have in common?
The premiere of a new Showtime series, Years of Living
Dangerously, unexpectedly on global warming. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ

Its 1 hour. 
.
O

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ending the Use of Dirty Fuels, Years of Living Dangerously...global warming

2014-04-14 Thread Mike Dixon

C'mon Share, give us a break. I don't want to watch a full hour to see what  
the Syrian war, Indonesian parks and Texas have in common. Please give us the 
Cliff notes for dummies.
On Monday, April 14, 2014 10:59 AM, "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com" 
 wrote:
  
  
It is quite time for a change.  Radical change.
-Buck in the Dome


The World Simply Must


End the Use of Dirty Fuels,
Rampant Materialism, Hyper-Industrial Production and the
Over-consumption of the consumer economies of the world at too high a
level by too many people to be sustainable is the problem.

sharelong60 writes: What does the Syrian war, destruction of
Indonesian parks and Texas have in common?
The premiere of a new Showtime series, Years of Living
Dangerously, unexpectedly on global warming. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ

Its 1 hour. 
.
O

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ending the Use of Dirty Fuels, Years of Living Dangerously...global warming

2014-04-14 Thread Bhairitu

Not hard to do if you get rid of the control freaks such as the 
oligarchs and plutocrats.  The earth belongs to the masses not the 
privileged few.



On 04/14/2014 10:45 AM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote:


We are talking survival.

It is quite time for a change. Radical change.

-Buck in the Dome


The World Simply Must


*End the Use of Dirty Fuels,*

*Rampant Materialism, Hyper-Industrial Production and the 
Over-consumption of the consumer economies of the world at too high a 
level by too many people to be sustainable is the problem.*



sharelong60 writes: What does the Syrian war, destruction of 
Indonesian parks and Texas have in common?


The premiere of a new Showtime series, Years of Living Dangerously, 
unexpectedly on global warming.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ

Its 1 hour.
.
Om

Re: [FairfieldLife] Shoe Thrown at Hillary

2014-04-14 Thread Mike Dixon

I know. Had it hit her, it would have made her a more sympathetic figure. As it 
is, it's just funny.
On Sunday, April 13, 2014 9:55 PM, "jr_...@yahoo.com"  wrote:
  
  
It's a good thing the thrower missed.  Hillary didn't even know it was coming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16T6UJW5oWY

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous



 

I explained that as well. Pay attention at the back!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 You're explaining why there can't be two worlds when what I suggested is that 
there is only one world, but we see only part of it. ??? 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 In a way that's what everyone does, the world we see is in our heads but our 
senses are only capable of revealing a small part of the electromagnetic 
spectrum and our ears only a small part of the auditory. 

 

 In order to perform the clever trick of us thinking there is a theatre in our 
heads where all this stuff is united as a convincing picture is a bit of a 
clever trick. But we never see X-rays or hear ultrasonic so in what way could 
it be another world? There's no extra meaningful knowledge to be gained from 
our senses at all. 
 

 I think what we have is a breakdown in explaining mystical states, they don't 
mean anything really, they don't teach you anything you don't already know, you 
just get a feeling that they might if they become fully realised. For all his 
bluster Marshy never told us what the cosmological constant was or how the 
alleged unified field fits in with the standard model of particle physics. 
There was nothing new other than the promise that we could have these riches 
too. In fact, he only ever impressed me a few times with his day-to-day wisdom. 
His supreme wisdom is just rehashed Hindooism, hardly cognised as claimed, if 
it ever was.
 

 But his description of enlightenment is inspiring as that's how it feels to 
experience it, but there is no layered structure to consciousness like you see 
on TM posters or inside the brain. It's all a metaphor, a clever way of 
explaining how a breakdown (or up) of our usual deceptive model of how the 
world looks when you jigger about with it. 
 

 Why you get the duality of the silent and the active at the same time seems 
rather likely to be due to Lawson's hypothalamus feedback idea, that gives us 
the fourth state of consciousness - characterised by stillness, becoming 
temporarily crosswired to the normal waking state apparatus of manufacturing 
consciousness. If that is indeed how transcendence is explained, and it will be 
something like that. There isn't anywhere else for another world to be as far 
as anyone knows, or anyway we could get information about it, as far as anyone 
knows.
 

 Wouldn't it be funny if TM researchers undermined the whole philosophical 
fabric of their own beliefs. That's be true science!
 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Maybe there's only one world and you usually see only part of it?
 

 Ah, I still get that stunned feeling that hits you in your gut and that sense 
of wonder about just...how? How there can be two worlds when I only usually see 
one...?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Oh god, not Ed Fess again. No, that isn't a good place to start. I read his 
blog once and had a laugh at a few errors about physics and Steven Hawking but 
most of it seems based on other things you have to read, like there's some vast 
esoteric store of knowledge that you have to adopt. Why bother when we have 
easier ways, unless he thinks them inadequate? 
 Most of what he has to say about Thomas Aquinas (I think it was) is 
interesting but hopelessly out of date, I'm sure TA would have been the first 
to admit it and would love the new developments in cosmology, I imagine any 
philosopher would be happy to have the most advanced knowledge. They didn't 
have any data gathering methods in those days, so they had to rely on what they 
thought about things, without scientific method they had no way of testing what 
they thought - if you even can. And if you can't what use is it? 

 

 Maybe if you can provide a link to a critique by Ed Fess of physics or 
evolutionary theory showing why they are inadequate, instead of him merely 
complaining that atheists don't know as much about Greek philosophy as he does?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 P.S.: Here's a good place to start: 
 http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/search?q=%22one+god+less%22 
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/search?q=%22one+god+less%22

 

 Note: Feser does not use the male pronoun to refer to God because he believes 
God has a gender; he does not. IMHO, his arguments would be clearer to the 
uninitiated if he used "It" instead of "He."
 


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I believe I've already explained why "one god less" is incoherent, in the 
process exposing all kinds of ideas you had about what God is said to be that 
are refuted by classical theism (the strongest argument for theism). As I 
recall, you wimped out of that discussion when it got tough, as you often do 
(see our exchange about Susan Blackmore for another instance). 

 Classical theism is a complex and demanding argument, both to explain and to 
understand. I wouldn't attempt it on a forum like this. But I can (already 
have, I think) pointed you to online sources and at least one book where you 
could begin to educate yourself as to what you're really up against.
 

 I predict you won't bother, though. You prefer to remain ignorant because that 
allows you to believe you've done the job by refuting the weaker arguments.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yawn. Wake me up when you've actually posted a strong argument for "that" idea.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 It really is astounding, Salyavin, how willing--almost eager--you are to 
flaunt your ignorance. 

 See, here's the thing: If you want to make a credible argument against an idea 
(any idea), you need to address the strongest argument for that idea. That's 
just common sense. Now, if you don't even know what the strongest argument for 
the idea is, you are, to say the least, at a significant disadvantage in 
arguing against it.
 

 That's why philosophers of religion (many if not most of whom are a whole lot 
smarter and better educated than either you or I, or Curtis, for that matter) 
just laugh at Dawkins and the other ignorant New Atheists. If they can't be 
bothered even to inform themselves about the strongest arguments for theism, 
let alone address those arguments, there's really no reason to take them 
seriously.
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 You may want to massage this thesis a bit, Salyavin, because it doesn't make a 
lot of sense as you've written it. 

 Although Curtis was a philosophy major at MIU (as I recall), he seemed to be 
missing a whole chunk of philosophical theology, as Dawkins is. Anybody who 
would use the "I just believe in one god less" gambit thinking it was a 
coherent defense of atheism did not have a complete philosophical education.
 
Thanks for the tip. I'll file it under belief in fairies. Some people get 
intensely philosophical about those too.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous


On 4/14/2014 12:47 PM, salyavin808 wrote:
In a way that's what everyone does, the world we see is in our heads 
but our senses are only capable of revealing a small part of the 
electromagnetic spectrum and our ears only a small part of the auditory.

>
Translation: Everyone thinks, therefore since TM is based on thinking, 
hence everyone meditates.



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
http://www.avast.com

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

You're explaining why there can't be two worlds when what I suggested is that 
there is only one world, but we see only part of it. ??? 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 In a way that's what everyone does, the world we see is in our heads but our 
senses are only capable of revealing a small part of the electromagnetic 
spectrum and our ears only a small part of the auditory. 

 

 In order to perform the clever trick of us thinking there is a theatre in our 
heads where all this stuff is united as a convincing picture is a bit of a 
clever trick. But we never see X-rays or hear ultrasonic so in what way could 
it be another world? There's no extra meaningful knowledge to be gained from 
our senses at all. 
 

 I think what we have is a breakdown in explaining mystical states, they don't 
mean anything really, they don't teach you anything you don't already know, you 
just get a feeling that they might if they become fully realised. For all his 
bluster Marshy never told us what the cosmological constant was or how the 
alleged unified field fits in with the standard model of particle physics. 
There was nothing new other than the promise that we could have these riches 
too. In fact, he only ever impressed me a few times with his day-to-day wisdom. 
His supreme wisdom is just rehashed Hindooism, hardly cognised as claimed, if 
it ever was.
 

 But his description of enlightenment is inspiring as that's how it feels to 
experience it, but there is no layered structure to consciousness like you see 
on TM posters or inside the brain. It's all a metaphor, a clever way of 
explaining how a breakdown (or up) of our usual deceptive model of how the 
world looks when you jigger about with it. 
 

 Why you get the duality of the silent and the active at the same time seems 
rather likely to be due to Lawson's hypothalamus feedback idea, that gives us 
the fourth state of consciousness - characterised by stillness, becoming 
temporarily crosswired to the normal waking state apparatus of manufacturing 
consciousness. If that is indeed how transcendence is explained, and it will be 
something like that. There isn't anywhere else for another world to be as far 
as anyone knows, or anyway we could get information about it, as far as anyone 
knows.
 

 Wouldn't it be funny if TM researchers undermined the whole philosophical 
fabric of their own beliefs. That's be true science!
 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Maybe there's only one world and you usually see only part of it?
 

 Ah, I still get that stunned feeling that hits you in your gut and that sense 
of wonder about just...how? How there can be two worlds when I only usually see 
one...?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous


On 4/14/2014 10:58 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:

How can one "inform oneself" about that which does not exist?  :-)

>
There are several ways a person can "inform oneself" about that which 
does not exist. First, you need to understand the basic laws of gravity. 
Then, you need to understand the effects of gravity on the human body. 
And, third you need to understand that a human body cannot float in mid 
air with no visible means of physical support. When you put these all 
together you get the impression that ALL THINGS FALL DOWN. When this 
happens, you become informed.



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
http://www.avast.com

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous



 In a way that's what everyone does, the world we see is in our heads but our 
senses are only capable of revealing a small part of the electromagnetic 
spectrum and our ears only a small part of the auditory. 

 

 In order to perform the clever trick of us thinking there is a theatre in our 
heads where all this stuff is united as a convincing picture is a bit of a 
clever trick. But we never see X-rays or hear ultrasonic so in what way could 
it be another world? There's no extra meaningful knowledge to be gained from 
our senses at all. 
 

 I think what we have is a breakdown in explaining mystical states, they don't 
mean anything really, they don't teach you anything you don't already know, you 
just get a feeling that they might if they become fully realised. For all his 
bluster Marshy never told us what the cosmological constant was or how the 
alleged unified field fits in with the standard model of particle physics. 
There was nothing new other than the promise that we could have these riches 
too. In fact, he only ever impressed me a few times with his day-to-day wisdom. 
His supreme wisdom is just rehashed Hindooism, hardly cognised as claimed, if 
it ever was.
 

 But his description of enlightenment is inspiring as that's how it feels to 
experience it, but there is no layered structure to consciousness like you see 
on TM posters or inside the brain. It's all a metaphor, a clever way of 
explaining how a breakdown (or up) of our usual deceptive model of how the 
world looks when you jigger about with it. 
 

 Why you get the duality of the silent and the active at the same time seems 
rather likely to be due to Lawson's hypothalamus feedback idea, that gives us 
the fourth state of consciousness - characterised by stillness, becoming 
temporarily crosswired to the normal waking state apparatus of manufacturing 
consciousness. If that is indeed how transcendence is explained, and it will be 
something like that. There isn't anywhere else for another world to be as far 
as anyone knows, or anyway we could get information about it, as far as anyone 
knows.
 

 Wouldn't it be funny if TM researchers undermined the whole philosophical 
fabric of their own beliefs. That's be true science!
 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Maybe there's only one world and you usually see only part of it?
 

 Ah, I still get that stunned feeling that hits you in your gut and that sense 
of wonder about just...how? How there can be two worlds when I only usually see 
one...?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Ending the Use of Dirty Fuels, Years of Living Dangerously...global warming

We are talking survival.
 It is quite time for a change. Radical change.
 -Buck in the Dome
 

 The World Simply Must
 

 End the Use of Dirty Fuels,
 Rampant Materialism, Hyper-Industrial Production and the Over-consumption of 
the consumer economies of the world at too high a level by too many people to 
be sustainable is the problem.
 

 sharelong60 writes: What does the Syrian war, destruction of Indonesian parks 
and Texas have in common?
 The premiere of a new Showtime series, Years of Living Dangerously, 
unexpectedly on global warming. 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ
 
 Its 1 hour. 
 .
 Om

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

2014-04-14 Thread nablusoss1008


 Drunks, rapists and the Lame Dolly. And on FFL we have our own beloved 
specimen. One understands why they are so eager to learn TM at Thai 
monasteries. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 4/14/2014 9:12 AM, nablusoss1008 wrote:

 5 lives as a Buddhist Master and ending up drowning himself while wearing a 
dog-collar ? Lets hope he was fantasizing about his previous lives, or Buddhism 
is in deeper trouble than even I imagined.

 >
 We should probably spread the blame for Buddhism being in trouble in the West 
- don't forget the Trungpa Tulku and Osel Tenzin.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:punditster@... wrote :
 
 On 4/14/2014 7:08 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:

 You may be onto something here, Share, because I have strong past life 
memories of those times. >
 There are a few people who have claimed strong past life reincarnations. I was 
wondering, do you have any past life memories about Judy - you two seem to have 
a very strong connection. According to Rama, he remembered several of his 
SPECIAL past lives:
 
 1531 - 1575, Zen Master, Japan
 1602 - 1771, Head of Zen Order, Japan
 1725 - 1804, Master of Monastery, Tibet
 1834 - 1905, Jnana Yoga Master, India
 1912 - 1945, Tibetan Lama and Head of Monastic Order, Tibet
 1950 - Self Realized Spiritual Teacher and Director of Spiritual Communities, 
United States.
 
 http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/09.chap-15-16 
http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/09.chap-15-16

 
 

 
 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
http://www.avast.com/ protection is active.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!


On 4/14/2014 9:43 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:
"The Golden Age of Indian Civilization" is, after all, about on a par 
with modern-day life in the Congo, except that the Congo has toilets. 

>
It's just amazing how low some people will go just to win a religious 
debate, up to and including, the disparagement of a whole class of 
people based on their birth circumstances. In fact, the Congo is today a 
third world state with numerous human rights violations. "there are more 
than 30 armed militias in eastern DR Congo still making a living from 
the region's minerals - trafficking, poaching, taxing and pillaging."


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-26946982

In contrast, the "Golden Age" of Indian civilization was during the 
Gupta period - a period in India which supported the peaceful existence 
of large peaceful, meditating communities. It was the age of 
enlightenment in India.


The history of South Asia indicates that almost all of the present 
social problems were imported from the West, including the caste system. 
If you read any history you would know that the civilization along the 
ancient Indus River predates most Western civilizations, and they had a 
toilet system over 2,000 years before Rome was even built.


The Gupta Empire period in South Asia is the so-called 'Golden' or 
'Classical' age of India', (320 to 550 CE), which was an age of 
extensive achievements in science, technology, engineering, art, 
dialectic, literature, logic, mathematics, astronomy, religion and 
philosophy that crystallized the elements of what is generally known as 
Hindu culture. These people probably had more talent in one of their 
little pinky fingers that Barry has in his entire brain. Go figure.



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
http://www.avast.com

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

P.S.: Here's a good place to start: 
 http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/search?q=%22one+god+less%22 
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/search?q=%22one+god+less%22

 

 Note: Feser does not use the male pronoun to refer to God because he believes 
God has a gender; he does not. IMHO, his arguments would be clearer to the 
uninitiated if he used "It" instead of "He."
 


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I believe I've already explained why "one god less" is incoherent, in the 
process exposing all kinds of ideas you had about what God is said to be that 
are refuted by classical theism (the strongest argument for theism). As I 
recall, you wimped out of that discussion when it got tough, as you often do 
(see our exchange about Susan Blackmore for another instance). 

 Classical theism is a complex and demanding argument, both to explain and to 
understand. I wouldn't attempt it on a forum like this. But I can (already 
have, I think) pointed you to online sources and at least one book where you 
could begin to educate yourself as to what you're really up against.
 

 I predict you won't bother, though. You prefer to remain ignorant because that 
allows you to believe you've done the job by refuting the weaker arguments.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yawn. Wake me up when you've actually posted a strong argument for "that" idea.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 It really is astounding, Salyavin, how willing--almost eager--you are to 
flaunt your ignorance. 

 See, here's the thing: If you want to make a credible argument against an idea 
(any idea), you need to address the strongest argument for that idea. That's 
just common sense. Now, if you don't even know what the strongest argument for 
the idea is, you are, to say the least, at a significant disadvantage in 
arguing against it.
 

 That's why philosophers of religion (many if not most of whom are a whole lot 
smarter and better educated than either you or I, or Curtis, for that matter) 
just laugh at Dawkins and the other ignorant New Atheists. If they can't be 
bothered even to inform themselves about the strongest arguments for theism, 
let alone address those arguments, there's really no reason to take them 
seriously.
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 You may want to massage this thesis a bit, Salyavin, because it doesn't make a 
lot of sense as you've written it. 

 Although Curtis was a philosophy major at MIU (as I recall), he seemed to be 
missing a whole chunk of philosophical theology, as Dawkins is. Anybody who 
would use the "I just believe in one god less" gambit thinking it was a 
coherent defense of atheism did not have a complete philosophical education.
 
Thanks for the tip. I'll file it under belief in fairies. Some people get 
intensely philosophical about those too.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

I believe I've already explained why "one god less" is incoherent, in the 
process exposing all kinds of ideas you had about what God is said to be that 
are refuted by classical theism (the strongest argument for theism). As I 
recall, you wimped out of that discussion when it got tough, as you often do 
(see our exchange about Susan Blackmore for another instance). 

 Classical theism is a complex and demanding argument, both to explain and to 
understand. I wouldn't attempt it on a forum like this. But I can (already 
have, I think) pointed you to online sources and at least one book where you 
could begin to educate yourself as to what you're really up against.
 

 I predict you won't bother, though. You prefer to remain ignorant because that 
allows you to believe you've done the job by refuting the weaker arguments.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yawn. Wake me up when you've actually posted a strong argument for "that" idea.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 It really is astounding, Salyavin, how willing--almost eager--you are to 
flaunt your ignorance. 

 See, here's the thing: If you want to make a credible argument against an idea 
(any idea), you need to address the strongest argument for that idea. That's 
just common sense. Now, if you don't even know what the strongest argument for 
the idea is, you are, to say the least, at a significant disadvantage in 
arguing against it.
 

 That's why philosophers of religion (many if not most of whom are a whole lot 
smarter and better educated than either you or I, or Curtis, for that matter) 
just laugh at Dawkins and the other ignorant New Atheists. If they can't be 
bothered even to inform themselves about the strongest arguments for theism, 
let alone address those arguments, there's really no reason to take them 
seriously.
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 You may want to massage this thesis a bit, Salyavin, because it doesn't make a 
lot of sense as you've written it. 

 Although Curtis was a philosophy major at MIU (as I recall), he seemed to be 
missing a whole chunk of philosophical theology, as Dawkins is. Anybody who 
would use the "I just believe in one god less" gambit thinking it was a 
coherent defense of atheism did not have a complete philosophical education.
 
Thanks for the tip. I'll file it under belief in fairies. Some people get 
intensely philosophical about those too.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!


On 4/14/2014 10:53 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:
"Buck," if all of this is supposed to be an exercise in trying to 
guess whether you're drunk on really cheap tequila or soma, I'm gonna 
go with tequila.

>
My guess would be it's beer, not tequila - I don't think they have very 
many Hispanics up there in Iowa. If I were to guess whether or not 
you're drunk on vodka or high on cannabis, I'm gonna go with all of the 
above.



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
http://www.avast.com

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Maybe there's only one world and you usually see only part of it?
 

 Ah, I still get that stunned feeling that hits you in your gut and that sense 
of wonder about just...how? How there can be two worlds when I only usually see 
one...?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?


On 4/14/2014 9:12 AM, nablusoss1008 wrote:


5 lives as a Buddhist Master and ending up drowning himself while 
wearing a dog-collar ? Lets hope he was fantasizing about his previous 
lives, or Buddhism is in deeper trouble than even I imagined.



>
We should probably spread the blame for Buddhism being in trouble in the 
West - don't forget the Trungpa Tulku and Osel Tenzin.



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

On 4/14/2014 7:08 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:

You may be onto something here, Share, because I have strong past
life memories of those times.

>
There are a few people who have claimed strong past life 
reincarnations. I was wondering, do you have any past life memories 
about Judy - you two seem to have a very strong connection. According 
to Rama, he remembered several of his /*SPECIAL*/ past lives:


1531 - 1575, Zen Master, Japan
1602 - 1771, Head of Zen Order, Japan
1725 - 1804, Master of Monastery, Tibet
1834 - 1905, Jnana Yoga Master, India
1912 - 1945, Tibetan Lama and Head of Monastic Order, Tibet
1950 - Self Realized Spiritual Teacher and Director of Spiritual 
Communities, United States.


http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/09.chap-15-16




---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
http://www.avast.com

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Yawn. Wake me up when you've actually posted a strong argument for "that" idea.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 It really is astounding, Salyavin, how willing--almost eager--you are to 
flaunt your ignorance. 

 See, here's the thing: If you want to make a credible argument against an idea 
(any idea), you need to address the strongest argument for that idea. That's 
just common sense. Now, if you don't even know what the strongest argument for 
the idea is, you are, to say the least, at a significant disadvantage in 
arguing against it.
 

 That's why philosophers of religion (many if not most of whom are a whole lot 
smarter and better educated than either you or I, or Curtis, for that matter) 
just laugh at Dawkins and the other ignorant New Atheists. If they can't be 
bothered even to inform themselves about the strongest arguments for theism, 
let alone address those arguments, there's really no reason to take them 
seriously.
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 You may want to massage this thesis a bit, Salyavin, because it doesn't make a 
lot of sense as you've written it. 

 Although Curtis was a philosophy major at MIU (as I recall), he seemed to be 
missing a whole chunk of philosophical theology, as Dawkins is. Anybody who 
would use the "I just believe in one god less" gambit thinking it was a 
coherent defense of atheism did not have a complete philosophical education.
 
Thanks for the tip. I'll file it under belief in fairies. Some people get 
intensely philosophical about those too.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 salyavin, yes, I like your last paragraph about depth recognition getting 
crossed with reward center for pleasure. Now here's the next important step I 
think: does that have lasting value for life? Because if it does, then for me 
it doesn't matter how it came about, as long as it didn't involve hurting other 
life. Nor does it matter if we call it "God" or silly putty or brain upper 
right quadrant firing. If it has lasting value for life (and yes, how would we 
operationally define that?) let's go for it!
 

 I thought that's what we were doing with whatever we do. No it doesn't matter 
what you call it, pleasure is pleasure. I mentioned before about a TM inspired 
flash of enlightenment that I'm not sure if it's a good long term proposition. 
Does it ever get boring? I know that taking hallucinogens does, maybe 
enlightenment is a drag after a while.
 

 But the hunger for it is addictive, we have all sorts of addictive chemicals 
in our brains you know, they usually get regulated but in mystical states maybe 
we get a higher dose. 
 

 Judy was right, I meant to ask you: how do you now assess your early mystical 
experience.  

 

 Ah, I still get that stunned feeling that hits you in your gut and that sense 
of wonder about just...how? How there can be two worlds when I only usually see 
one, and what I always get with mystical stuff - meditation or drug inspired - 
why is it so profound. Why the god feeling or sense of impending ultimate 
wisdom?
 

 I think I've already explained it, kind of, the general idea anyway. But it's 
still cool to be in possession of a head that does stuff like that even though 
I'd bet money on it being a mental synapse dysfunction of some sort.
 

 Either that or I'm the new messiah. 
 

 On Monday, April 14, 2014 10:02 AM, salyavin808  
wrote:

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!

2014-04-14 Thread Bhairitu

Perhaps Buck ought to pull out a geetar and sing a few rounds (as a 
waltz) of "Come Back, Come Back to the Domes.  The place where the 
flying folks roam.  Yes, Come Back, Come Back to the Domes.  Where the 
Vedas are bringing you home." :-D


On 04/14/2014 08:53 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:
"Buck," if all of this is supposed to be an exercise in trying to 
guess whether you're drunk on really cheap tequila or soma, I'm gonna 
go with tequila.


I mean, the "Come back to the domes" bit is lame enough, but "Forward 
into the Vedic past" is really pushing it, even for an amateur Colbert 
clone.



*From:* "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com" 
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Monday, April 14, 2014 5:48 PM
*Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!

This will lead us to question the role of textual authority in
contemporary Hinduism and its uses as a way of forging new religious
identities. If modern science as epistemological authority was amply 
used by

Hindu reformers during colonial times to prove the universal value of
Hinduism, how are the “Vedic” and the “scientific” articulated in 
contemporary

discourses and practices?

Participants will also be asked to investigate
whether the attribution “Vedic” is always used in a “Hindu” context or 
whether it can be a purely commercial term used to sell the “exotic” 
and the “ancient”
within India— as in the case of the Vedic City under construction by 
the Shri

Infratech group in Greater Noida.

Similarly, the conference will deal with the economy that is generated 
as these

ideas spread. Besides the ideological dimension, commercial concerns seem
to be at the heart of these new phenomena.

“The attribution “Vedic” has
important commercial implications that should be attentively examined. The
Vedas are nowadays sold as a commercial item, in the form of printed 
texts,

recorded mantras (CD, DVD), or as a packaged tourist destination (Vedic
schools, Vedic meditations centres). “Vedic” forms of knowledge are also
extensively commercialized: countless services (consultations, courses,
stages) and products (Vedic horoscopes, Vedic remedies, Vedic ritual 
items,
etc.) are sold through the web. Participants will then be asked to 
explore the
social networks, the marketing strategies and the material supports 
used in

this “Vedic economy”.

A Lifestyle inspired by the Golden age of the Indian Civilization. 
Chandragupta Maurya ! Ashoka ! Reminiscent of the Golden Age is now a 
realty. Vedic City will be an Epic beginning to a new life.


An Epic beginning to a new life, today we invite you to become a part 
of that mystical grandeur in a Vedic City near you.

.
.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!

Central to our investigation is a focus on the content of these “new” forms of 
 knowledge, and the legitimation strategies that go along with them. Although 
it 
 takes particular forms in the modern world, referencing the Vedas is actually 
 an ancient way to affirm the validity of knowledge . How are contemporary 
 ways of referring to the Vedas as a legitimating authority different from 
ancient 
 ways? In what ways does the attribution “Vedic” help to legitimate particular 
 ways of knowing?
 

 This will lead us to question the role of textual authority in
 contemporary Hinduism and its uses as a way of forging new religious 
 identities. If modern science as epistemological authority was amply used by 
 Hindu reformers during colonial times to prove the universal value of 
 Hinduism, how are the “Vedic” and the “scientific” articulated in contemporary 
 discourses and practices?
 
 Participants will also be asked to investigate
 whether the attribution “Vedic” is always used in a “Hindu” context or whether 
it can be a purely commercial term used to sell the “exotic” and the “ancient”
 within India— as in the case of the Vedic City under construction by the Shri
 Infratech group in Greater Noida.
 

 Similarly, the conference will deal with the economy that is generated as these

 ideas spread. Besides the ideological dimension, commercial concerns seem
 to be at the heart of these new phenomena.
 
 “The attribution “Vedic” has
 important commercial implications that should be attentively examined. The
 Vedas are nowadays sold as a commercial item, in the form of printed texts,
 recorded mantras (CD, DVD), or as a packaged tourist destination (Vedic
 schools, Vedic meditations centres). “Vedic” forms of knowledge are also
 extensively commercialized: countless services (consultations, courses,
 stages) and products (Vedic horoscopes, Vedic remedies, Vedic ritual items,
 etc.) are sold through the web. Participants will then be asked to explore the
 social networks, the marketing strategies and the material supports used in
 this “Vedic economy”.
 
 A Lifestyle inspired by the Golden age of the Indian Civilization. 
Chandragupta Maurya ! Ashoka ! Reminiscent of the Golden Age is now a realty. 
Vedic City will be an Epic beginning to a new life.
 
 An Epic beginning to a new life, today we invite you to become a part of that 
mystical grandeur in a Vedic City near you.
 .
 .
 O

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Oh, and Curtis too, apparently. Not to mention the Dawkins crowd. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Ooopsie. You forgot to add "that we (Salyavin and I) know of." 


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Judy, I think Salyavin is trying to state the obvious, that there ARE no 
"strongest arguments" for Theism. There aren't even any "strong" ones. 

How can one "inform oneself" about that which does not exist?  :-)
 

 From: "authfriend@..." 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 5:53 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
 
 
   It really is astounding, Salyavin, how willing--almost eager--you are to 
flaunt your ignorance.
 

 See, here's the thing: If you want to make a credible argument against an idea 
(any idea), you need to address the strongest argument for that idea. That's 
just common sense. Now, if you don't even know what the strongest argument for 
the idea is, you are, to say the least, at a significant disadvantage in 
arguing against it.
 

 That's why philosophers of religion (many if not most of whom are a whole lot 
smarter and better educated than either you or I, or Curtis, for that matter) 
just laugh at Dawkins and the other ignorant New Atheists. If they can't be 
bothered even to inform themselves about the strongest arguments for theism, 
let alone address those arguments, there's really no reason to take them 
seriously.
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 You may want to massage this thesis a bit, Salyavin, because it doesn't make a 
lot of sense as you've written it. 

 Although Curtis was a philosophy major at MIU (as I recall), he seemed to be 
missing a whole chunk of philosophical theology, as Dawkins is. Anybody who 
would use the "I just believe in one god less" gambit thinking it was a 
coherent defense of atheism did not have a complete philosophical education.
 
Thanks for the tip. I'll file it under belief in fairies. Some people get 
intensely philosophical about those too.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

salyavin, yes, I like your last paragraph about depth recognition getting 
crossed with reward center for pleasure. Now here's the next important step I 
think: does that have lasting value for life? Because if it does, then for me 
it doesn't matter how it came about, as long as it didn't involve hurting other 
life. Nor does it matter if we call it "God" or silly putty or brain upper 
right quadrant firing. If it has lasting value for life (and yes, how would we 
operationally define that?) let's go for it!

Judy was right, I meant to ask you: how do you now assess your early mystical 
experience.  

On Monday, April 14, 2014 10:02 AM, salyavin808  
wrote:
 
  




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


salyavin, your mystical experience sounds quite wonderful and you say it stayed 
with you. In light of your scientific leanings, how do you access it now? 
Hormonal changes as you say?

I don't access it now, it happened when I was young but the memory stayed with 
me. It was a cool trip. I think we remember stuff like this with clarity 
because they are so outside the normal run of mental activity.

Also I find it interesting that the continuum you suggest has mental illness at 
one end and mystical experience at the other. Are you saying that mystical 
experience is an indication of excellent mental health?

I wouldn't say they were at opposite ends as they share a lot of common motifs 
like expansiveness and intense bliss or feeling in the presence of deep wisdom 
of holy beings. This veers into feelings of deep evil and paranoia in 
schizophrenia. But it's all in the mind and therefore brain wiring and 
communication. I think spiritual techniques can slowly introduce normal 
awareness to altered states that are the same as seen in my early trip out and 
mental illness. And drug experiences come to think of it.

Maybe a sudden experience like mine is just a temporary bolt but serious mental 
illness can linger, and often has deep roots in the mind and childhood 
experiences

As for the quote, some day we may find that "mental and spiritual discipline" 
is required to know "God" because without them, such an experience would blow 
our circuits!

I would say that "god" is the experience, we just like giving flashy conceptual 
names to profound seeming things.
remember, everything we perceive is a construct including emotions, thoughts, 
insights and all the feelings we get about life, god and nature are part of an 
ancient reward circuit of pleasure or satisfaction. Our multi-shaded feelings 
are made up of loads of chemicals governed by different parts of the brain. 

Suppose in a sudden mystical state, the bit that controls our sense of internal 
depth recognition gets cross-wired with the reward centre for pleasure. Instant 
religious experience? Probably a bit more complex than that but that is the 
gist of it. It's all in the mind.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Ooopsie. You forgot to add "that we (Salyavin and I) know of." 


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Judy, I think Salyavin is trying to state the obvious, that there ARE no 
"strongest arguments" for Theism. There aren't even any "strong" ones. 

How can one "inform oneself" about that which does not exist?  :-)
 

 From: "authfriend@..." 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 5:53 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous
 
 
   It really is astounding, Salyavin, how willing--almost eager--you are to 
flaunt your ignorance.
 

 See, here's the thing: If you want to make a credible argument against an idea 
(any idea), you need to address the strongest argument for that idea. That's 
just common sense. Now, if you don't even know what the strongest argument for 
the idea is, you are, to say the least, at a significant disadvantage in 
arguing against it.
 

 That's why philosophers of religion (many if not most of whom are a whole lot 
smarter and better educated than either you or I, or Curtis, for that matter) 
just laugh at Dawkins and the other ignorant New Atheists. If they can't be 
bothered even to inform themselves about the strongest arguments for theism, 
let alone address those arguments, there's really no reason to take them 
seriously.
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 You may want to massage this thesis a bit, Salyavin, because it doesn't make a 
lot of sense as you've written it. 

 Although Curtis was a philosophy major at MIU (as I recall), he seemed to be 
missing a whole chunk of philosophical theology, as Dawkins is. Anybody who 
would use the "I just believe in one god less" gambit thinking it was a 
coherent defense of atheism did not have a complete philosophical education.
 
Thanks for the tip. I'll file it under belief in fairies. Some people get 
intensely philosophical about those too.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Movie review: Only Lovers Left Alive

2014-04-14 Thread Bhairitu

You may or may not like the pulp movie I watched last night "Nurse."  
Definitely not for Buck because of lots of skin.  But it s a dark comedy 
and horror movie starring Paz La Heurta as a serial killer nurse.


On 04/13/2014 03:46 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:
So what would it be like if that master of quirk Jim Jarmusch made a 
vampire movie? As one person on IMDB put it, it would be a movie with 
vampires in it, not a vampire movie. It would also not have a lot of 
action in it; as the IMDB trivia section tells us, there was 
originally some in the film, but when Jarmusch was asked to add more, 
instead he removed all of it.


And, of course, as you might expect from someone who has worked with 
Johnny Depp and Forrest Whitaker in the past, there would be actors 
just as quirky as their director. In this case, that would include the 
so-ethereal-she's-almost-translucent Tilda Swinton as a 2,000-year-old 
babe, and and Tom Hiddleston as her 5,600-year-old husband. Their 
names are, natch, Eve and Adam. John Hurt plays Christopher Marlowe. 
Yes, that one...the guy who really wrote Shakespeare's plays.


The film -- or long treatise in boredom, depending on how you feel 
about Jim Jarmusch -- is set in the ruins of Detroit and in Tangier, 
two cities that I happen to know a little bit about and have explored, 
so for me there is a touch of "at home-ness" about it all.


Adam and Eve live apart in this dystopian Eden -- him in Detroit, her 
in Tangier. But as we see when they sip their blood from crystal 
goblets 4,000 miles apart, they are never really separated. Time and 
quantum entanglement has rendered them so close that they can almost 
touch while video Skyping -- she via an iPhone, him via a computer 
played through an old vintage television. They talk, they lament the 
state of the world, and they collect antique treasures from the 
various eras they've lived through.


Eve decides to visit Adam in Detroit (taking night flights, natch), 
and things get weirder, if not more action-filled. The music is spooky 
and perfect, and a minor plot point in itself, because Adam collects 
rare antique instruments to record his music with, and has photos (or 
paintings) of the many musicians he's influenced over the centuries, 
from Bo Diddley to Gram Parsons to Schubert.


David Lynch would probably like it because of all the spooky shots of 
Detroit. Bhairitu might like it because the vamps refer to humans as 
"the zombies." On the other hand, Bhairitu might not like it because 
pretty much the only blood is served up in wine glasses. :-) Others 
probably won't like it because...uh...nothing really happens. To tell 
the truth, I found myself at about the halfway point wishing it would 
end soon. But it was a weird ride, and very moody, and it was cool to 
see Tangier again.


Only Lovers Left Alive (2014) Official Trailer 






image 


Only Lovers Left Alive (2014) Official Trailer 



View on www.youtube.com 

Preview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

Judy, I think Salyavin is trying to state the obvious, that there ARE no 
"strongest arguments" for Theism. There aren't even any "strong" ones. 

How can one "inform oneself" about that which does not exist?  :-)

 From: "authfri...@yahoo.com" 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 5:53 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

It really is astounding, Salyavin, how willing--almost eager--you are to flaunt 
your ignorance.

See, here's the thing: If you want to make a credible argument against an idea 
(any idea), you need to address the strongest argument for that idea. That's 
just common sense. Now, if you don't even know what the strongest argument for 
the idea is, you are, to say the least, at a significant disadvantage in 
arguing against it.

That's why philosophers of religion (many if not most of whom are a whole lot 
smarter and better educated than either you or I, or Curtis, for that matter) 
just laugh at Dawkins and the other ignorant New Atheists. If they can't be 
bothered even to inform themselves about the strongest arguments for theism, 
let alone address those arguments, there's really no reason to take them 
seriously.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

You may want to massage this thesis a bit, Salyavin, because it doesn't make a 
lot of sense as you've written it.

Although Curtis was a philosophy major at MIU (as I recall), he seemed to be 
missing a whole chunk of philosophical theology, as Dawkins is. Anybody who 
would use the "I just believe in one god less" gambit thinking it was a 
coherent defense of atheism did not have a complete philosophical education.

Thanks for the tip. I'll file it under belief in fairies. Some people get 
intensely philosophical about those too.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!

"Buck," if all of this is supposed to be an exercise in trying to guess whether 
you're drunk on really cheap tequila or soma, I'm gonna go with tequila.


I mean, the "Come back to the domes" bit is lame enough, but "Forward into the 
Vedic past" is really pushing it, even for an amateur Colbert clone. 




 From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com" 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 5:48 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!
 


  
This will lead us to question the role of textual authority in 
contemporary Hinduism and its uses as a way of forging new
religious 
identities. If modern science as epistemological authority was
amply used by 
Hindu reformers during colonial times to prove the universal value
of 
Hinduism, how are the “Vedic” and the “scientific”
articulated in contemporary 
discourses and practices?


Participants will also be asked to investigate
whether the attribution “Vedic” is always used in a “Hindu”
context or whether it can be a purely commercial term used to sell
the “exotic” and the “ancient”
within India— as in the case of the Vedic City under
construction by the Shri
Infratech group in Greater Noida.

Similarly, the conference will deal with the economy that is
generated as these

ideas spread. Besides the ideological dimension, commercial
concerns seem
to be at the heart of these new phenomena.


“The attribution “Vedic” has
important commercial implications that should be attentively
examined. The
Vedas are nowadays sold as a commercial item, in the form of
printed texts,
recorded mantras (CD, DVD), or as a packaged tourist destination
(Vedic
schools, Vedic meditations centres). “Vedic” forms of
knowledge are also
extensively commercialized: countless services (consultations,
courses,
stages) and products (Vedic horoscopes, Vedic remedies, Vedic
ritual items,
etc.) are sold through the web. Participants will then be asked to
explore the
social networks, the marketing strategies and the material
supports used in
this “Vedic economy”.


A Lifestyle inspired by the Golden age of the Indian Civilization.
Chandragupta Maurya ! Ashoka ! Reminiscent of the Golden Age is now a
realty. Vedic City will be an Epic beginning to a new life.


An Epic beginning to a new life, today we invite you to become a
part of that mystical grandeur in a Vedic City near you.
.
.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

It really is astounding, Salyavin, how willing--almost eager--you are to flaunt 
your ignorance. 

 See, here's the thing: If you want to make a credible argument against an idea 
(any idea), you need to address the strongest argument for that idea. That's 
just common sense. Now, if you don't even know what the strongest argument for 
the idea is, you are, to say the least, at a significant disadvantage in 
arguing against it.
 

 That's why philosophers of religion (many if not most of whom are a whole lot 
smarter and better educated than either you or I, or Curtis, for that matter) 
just laugh at Dawkins and the other ignorant New Atheists. If they can't be 
bothered even to inform themselves about the strongest arguments for theism, 
let alone address those arguments, there's really no reason to take them 
seriously.
 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 You may want to massage this thesis a bit, Salyavin, because it doesn't make a 
lot of sense as you've written it. 

 Although Curtis was a philosophy major at MIU (as I recall), he seemed to be 
missing a whole chunk of philosophical theology, as Dawkins is. Anybody who 
would use the "I just believe in one god less" gambit thinking it was a 
coherent defense of atheism did not have a complete philosophical education.
 
Thanks for the tip. I'll file it under belief in fairies. Some people get 
intensely philosophical about those too.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

I'm guessing she meant "assess," not "access." 

 salyavin, your mystical experience sounds quite wonderful and you say it 
stayed with you. In light of your scientific leanings, how do you access it 
now? Hormonal changes as you say? 

 I don't access it now, it happened when I was young but the memory stayed with 
me. It was a cool trip. I think we remember stuff like this with clarity 
because they are so outside the normal run of mental activity.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!

This will lead us to question the role of textual authority in 
 contemporary Hinduism and its uses as a way of forging new religious 
 identities. If modern science as epistemological authority was amply used by 
 Hindu reformers during colonial times to prove the universal value of 
 Hinduism, how are the “Vedic” and the “scientific” articulated in contemporary 
 discourses and practices?
 
 Participants will also be asked to investigate
 whether the attribution “Vedic” is always used in a “Hindu” context or whether 
it can be a purely commercial term used to sell the “exotic” and the “ancient”
 within India— as in the case of the Vedic City under construction by the Shri
 Infratech group in Greater Noida.
 

 Similarly, the conference will deal with the economy that is generated as these

 ideas spread. Besides the ideological dimension, commercial concerns seem
 to be at the heart of these new phenomena.
 
 “The attribution “Vedic” has
 important commercial implications that should be attentively examined. The
 Vedas are nowadays sold as a commercial item, in the form of printed texts,
 recorded mantras (CD, DVD), or as a packaged tourist destination (Vedic
 schools, Vedic meditations centres). “Vedic” forms of knowledge are also
 extensively commercialized: countless services (consultations, courses,
 stages) and products (Vedic horoscopes, Vedic remedies, Vedic ritual items,
 etc.) are sold through the web. Participants will then be asked to explore the
 social networks, the marketing strategies and the material supports used in
 this “Vedic economy”.
 
 A Lifestyle inspired by the Golden age of the Indian Civilization. 
Chandragupta Maurya ! Ashoka ! Reminiscent of the Golden Age is now a realty. 
Vedic City will be an Epic beginning to a new life.
 
 An Epic beginning to a new life, today we invite you to become a part of that 
mystical grandeur in a Vedic City near you.
 .
 .

[FairfieldLife] Re: Ending the Use of Dirty Fuels, Years of Living Dangerously...global warming

It is quite time for a change. Radical change.
 -Buck in the Dome
 

 The World Simply Must
 

 End the Use of Dirty Fuels,
 Rampant Materialism, Hyper-Industrial Production and the Over-consumption of 
the consumer economies of the world at too high a level by too many people to 
be sustainable is the problem.
 

 sharelong60 writes: What does the Syrian war, destruction of Indonesian parks 
and Texas have in common?
 The premiere of a new Showtime series, Years of Living Dangerously, 
unexpectedly on global warming. 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ
 
 Its 1 hour. 
 .
 O

[FairfieldLife] Ending the Use of Dirty Fuels, Years of Living Dangerously...global warming

The World Simply Must 
 

 
 End the Use of Dirty Fuels,
 Rampant Materialism, Hyper-Industrial Production and the Over-consumption of 
the consumer economies of the world at too high a level by too many people to 
be sustainable is the problem.
 

 sharelong60 writes: What does the Syrian war, destruction of Indonesian parks 
and Texas have in common?
 The premiere of a new Showtime series, Years of Living Dangerously, 
unexpectedly on global warming. 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ
 
 Its 1 hour. 
 .

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!

Participants will also be asked to investigate 
 whether the attribution “Vedic” is always used in a “Hindu” context or whether 
it can be a purely commercial term used to sell the “exotic” and the “ancient” 
 within India— as in the case of the Vedic City under construction by the Shri 
 Infratech group in Greater Noida.
 

 Similarly, the conference will deal with the economy that is generated as these

 ideas spread. Besides the ideological dimension, commercial concerns seem
 to be at the heart of these new phenomena.
 
 “The attribution “Vedic” has
 important commercial implications that should be attentively examined. The
 Vedas are nowadays sold as a commercial item, in the form of printed texts,
 recorded mantras (CD, DVD), or as a packaged tourist destination (Vedic
 schools, Vedic meditations centres). “Vedic” forms of knowledge are also
 extensively commercialized: countless services (consultations, courses,
 stages) and products (Vedic horoscopes, Vedic remedies, Vedic ritual items,
 etc.) are sold through the web. Participants will then be asked to explore the
 social networks, the marketing strategies and the material supports used in
 this “Vedic economy”.
 
 A Lifestyle inspired by the Golden age of the Indian Civilization. 
Chandragupta Maurya ! Ashoka ! Reminiscent of the Golden Age is now a realty. 
Vedic City will be an Epic beginning to a new life.
 
 An Epic beginning to a new life, today we invite you to become a part of that 
mystical grandeur in a Vedic City near you.
 .

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are the TM-Sidhis nothing but Placebo Effect?

thanks for the info, Lawson. I've never heard of MEG before. And I admit, all 
these machines seem kind of clunky but if they help us see the brain better, 
great.

How best can the knower know itself?


On Monday, April 14, 2014 4:13 AM, "lengli...@cox.net"  
wrote:
 
  
Ny money is on sophisticated analysis of high resolution EEG and MEG. fMRI is 
pretty low-resolution, time-wise, and the interesting stuff can happen in way 
under a second, which is the ilmitation of all the popular direct brain imaging 
stuff.


Lawson

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Thanks, Lawson. I think it'll be so much fun when we can see all these abstract 
states, such as absolute faith, right there in the fMRI.


On Saturday, April 12, 2014 4:07 PM, "LEnglish5@..."  wrote:

 


IF you have absolute faith in samadhi, that is, if your samadhi is unshakable, 
regardless of circumstances, then the ability to float might manifest.

And placebo might be related to that in some way as there are overlaps in which 
brain circuits are activated during placebo effects and during the practice of 
the TM-Sidhis..


There are also overlaps in the brain circuits that activate during pure 
consciousness and during mind-wandering, so placebo being related to siddhis 
practice is like saying that pure consciousness is related to  mind wandering.



Or something.


L


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Lawson, thanks for the additional definitions of shraddha. Could you say more 
about your last two sentences? I'm missing your main point somehow.

On Saturday, April 12, 2014 5:12 AM, "LEnglish5@..."  wrote:

 
"If you had the faith of a mustard seed, you could move mountains."

shraddhaa is translated as "Faith" which can mean trust, or belief without 
proof. The Hebrew word translated as "faith" means something along the lines of 
"strong [in God]" and the Greed word means something like "intuitive knowledge."

"Grok" in the original sense of the Martian word for "drink" seems to contain a 
bit of the same feel.


In the context of the siddhis, how about "absolute stability" of samadhi?

The placebo effect might be related to that, in the same way that 
mind-wandering is related to pure consciousness.



L





---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


They might be called to be based on placebo, because, IMU, faith (shraddhaa) is 
theconditio
sine qua non of  samaadhi.

As an analogy, I'll try to explain in English, how I seem to recall to have 
learned to bike (at about 7 years of age).    
It might have been the very first time I ever tried to ride a bike. It was a 
women's bike,
the one of the mother of a friend
of mine. I just started to ride and kept on, believing,
that a couple of other boys were keeping the bike upright. As a stopped, I 
noticed
they were about 30 yards behind me! So I learned to bike because I, falsely,
believed  I couldn't fall (because I believed the other boys were running behind
me keeping the bike upright)! 

So, in a sense my belief was the placebo that instantaneosly
helped me to learn to ride a bike??

Wikipedia:


Placebo effect and the brain
Functional imaging upon placebo analgesia shows that it links to the 
activation, and increased functional correlation between this activation, in 
the anterior cingulate, prefrontal, orbitofrontal and insular cortices, nucleus 
accumbens, amygdala, the brainstem periaqueductal gray matter,[84][85][86] and 
the spinal cord.[87][88][89][90]

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!

Similarly, the conference will deal with the economy that is generated as these 
 ideas spread. Besides the ideological dimension, commercial concerns seem 
 to be at the heart of these new phenomena.
 
 “The attribution “Vedic” has
 important commercial implications that should be attentively examined. The
 Vedas are nowadays sold as a commercial item, in the form of printed texts,
 recorded mantras (CD, DVD), or as a packaged tourist destination (Vedic
 schools, Vedic meditations centres). “Vedic” forms of knowledge are also
 extensively commercialized: countless services (consultations, courses,
 stages) and products (Vedic horoscopes, Vedic remedies, Vedic ritual items,
 etc.) are sold through the web. Participants will then be asked to explore the
 social networks, the marketing strategies and the material supports used in
 this “Vedic economy”.
 
 A Lifestyle inspired by the Golden age of the Indian Civilization. 
Chandragupta Maurya ! Ashoka ! Reminiscent of the Golden Age is now a realty. 
Vedic City will be an Epic beginning to a new life.
 
 An Epic beginning to a new life, today we invite you to become a part of that 
mystical grandeur in a Vedic City near you.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 salyavin, your mystical experience sounds quite wonderful and you say it 
stayed with you. In light of your scientific leanings, how do you access it 
now? Hormonal changes as you say?
 

 I don't access it now, it happened when I was young but the memory stayed with 
me. It was a cool trip. I think we remember stuff like this with clarity 
because they are so outside the normal run of mental activity.

Also I find it interesting that the continuum you suggest has mental illness at 
one end and mystical experience at the other. Are you saying that mystical 
experience is an indication of excellent mental health?
 

 I wouldn't say they were at opposite ends as they share a lot of common motifs 
like expansiveness and intense bliss or feeling in the presence of deep wisdom 
of holy beings. This veers into feelings of deep evil and paranoia in 
schizophrenia. But it's all in the mind and therefore brain wiring and 
communication. I think spiritual techniques can slowly introduce normal 
awareness to altered states that are the same as seen in my early trip out and 
mental illness. And drug experiences come to think of it.
 

 Maybe a sudden experience like mine is just a temporary bolt but serious 
mental illness can linger, and often has deep roots in the mind and childhood 
experiences

As for the quote, some day we may find that "mental and spiritual discipline" 
is required to know "God" because without them, such an experience would blow 
our circuits!
 

 I would say that "god" is the experience, we just like giving flashy 
conceptual names to profound seeming things.
 remember, everything we perceive is a construct including emotions, thoughts, 
insights and all the feelings we get about life, god and nature are part of an 
ancient reward circuit of pleasure or satisfaction. Our multi-shaded feelings 
are made up of loads of chemicals governed by different parts of the brain. 
 

 Suppose in a sudden mystical state, the bit that controls our sense of 
internal depth recognition gets cross-wired with the reward centre for 
pleasure. Instant religious experience? Probably a bit more complex than that 
but that is the gist of it. It's all in the mind.

[FairfieldLife] Years of Living Dangerously...global warming

What does the Syrian war, destruction of Indonesian parks and Texas have in 
common?
The premiere of a new Showtime series, Years of Living
  Dangerously, unexpectedly on global warming. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ

Its 1 hour.

[FairfieldLife] Fw: The Daily Routines of Geniuses

The Daily Routines of Geniuses, by Sarah Green

 
   The Daily Routines of Geniuses, by Sarah Green
In his book Daily Rituals: How Artists Work, author Mason Curry examines the 
schedules of 161 painters, writers, and composers, as well as philosoph...  
View on www.dailygood.org Preview by Yahoo  
 
On Monday, April 14, 2014 6:56 AM, DailyGood.org  wrote:
 
DailyGood.org 
You're receiving this email because you are a DailyGood subscriber.
Trouble Viewing?  On a mobile? Just click here. Not interested anymore? 
Unsubscribe. 
 
April 14, 2014 a project of ServiceSpace  
  The secret of your future is hidden in your daily routine.

- Mike Murdock -   
The Daily Routines of Geniuses
In his book Daily Rituals: How Artists Work, author Mason Curry examines the 
schedules of 161 painters, writers, and composers, as well as philosophers, 
scientists, and other exceptional thinkers. Drawing from the examples Curry 
provides, Sarah Green of the Harvard Business Review picks out for us a set of 
compelling commonalities shared by some of history's most brilliant people. { 
read more }
Be The Change
Take a look at your daily schedule and ask yourself what you can change based 
on this article :)  


COMMENT | RATE     


  Related Good News 
The One Thing They Carried With Them Barbara Kingsolver On How to Be Hopeful 
The College Course That's Changing Lives The Beautiful Fragility of Language
 
The Science of Love Building A Regret Free Life On Navigating Stuckness 18 
Things Highly Creative People Do Differently   


DailyGood is a volunteer-run initiative that delivers "good news" to 144,944 
subscribers.  There are many ways to help. To unsubscribe, click here.


Other ServiceSpace projects include:
KindSpring  //  KarmaTube  //  Conversations  //  Awakin  //  More

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!

From: "anartax...@yahoo.com" 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 4:37 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!

Does this mean the average life span 
will also be the same as it was
thousands of years ago:  approx. 25 years?
Dirt roads? No electricity, etc.? 
Travel by Ox cart? No supermarkets? 

A good point. "The Golden Age of Indian Civilization" is, after all, 
about on a par with modern-day life in the Congo, except that the Congo 
has toilets. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

A Lifestyle inspired by the Golden age of the Indian Civilization.
Chandragupta Maurya ! Ashoka ! Reminiscent of the Golden Age is now a
realty. Vedic City will be an Epic beginning to a new life.

An Epic beginning to a new life, today we invite you to become a
part of that mystical grandeur in a Vedic City near you.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous

salyavin, your mystical experience sounds quite wonderful and you say it stayed 
with you. In light of your scientific leanings, how do you access it now? 
Hormonal changes as you say?

Also I find it interesting that the continuum you suggest has mental illness at 
one end and mystical experience at the other. Are you saying that mystical 
experience is an indication of excellent mental health?

As for the quote, some day we may find that "mental and spiritual discipline" 
is required to know "God" because without them, such an experience would blow 
our circuits!


On Monday, April 14, 2014 1:33 AM, salyavin808  wrote:
 
  
This bit made me laugh:

 "In my experience, those who make the most theatrical display of demanding 
“proof” of God are also those least willing to undertake the specific kinds of 
mental and spiritual discipline that all the great religious traditions say are 
required to find God."

The experience she had is quite interesting though, and proof that we have an 
inner world that can go a bit screwy occasionally. But where does the feeling 
of wisdom that we designate god come from? We know that consciousness is a 
group experience of many parts of the brain pitching in, perhaps there's a bit 
confirms to us when we are on the right track about something and reward us 
with some chemical that feels profoundly wise (mescalin?) when other bits that 
help self-regulation step offline for a minute we can be overwhelmed by unified 
wisdom. An unbalancing of what we think of as "ordinary" experience.

Let's not forget these experiences are part of the continuum reported by 
schizophrenics, who are understood to have a fracturing of their normal 
day-to-day reality. My best guess is that our inner picture takes so much 
energy and complicated processing to keep going that it's bound to get in a 
muddle every now and again. Mostly it will be bad (mental illness) but 
sometimes good (mystical experience).

I'm sure everyone gets things like this, especially when they are younger and 
in the grip of hormonal changes, I certainly did. My first mystical experience 
was while walking through a meadow aged 10 (ish) . Suddenly the world revealed 
a hidden depth, a silent vastness behind reality that was also part of it. Very 
profound vision and stayed with me also.


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


A fascinating exchange of views...

Opinion piece in the NYTimes by Barbara Ehrenreich, rationalist author and 
political activist (and atheist), about the change in her perspective on life 
wrought gradually over many years by a mystical experience she had as an 
adolescent (note: at age 73, she's still an atheist):

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/06/opinion/sunday/a-rationalists-mystical-moment.html


Response by NYTimes columnist Ross Douthat (not an atheist) pointing out that 
her call for science to investigate mystical experiences in depth is premature 
because science doesn't yet understand ordinary experience well enough:

http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/04/09/how-to-study-the-numinous/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!

Does this mean the average life span  will also be the same as it was 
 thousands of years ago:  approx. 25 years?
 Dirt roads? No electricity, etc.? 
 Travel by Ox cart? No supermarkets? 
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 A Lifestyle inspired by the Golden age of the Indian Civilization. 
Chandragupta Maurya ! Ashoka ! Reminiscent of the Golden Age is now a realty. 
Vedic City will be an Epic beginning to a new life.
 
 An Epic beginning to a new life, today we invite you to become a part of that 
mystical grandeur in a Vedic City near you.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Studying the numinous


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 You may want to massage this thesis a bit, Salyavin, because it doesn't make a 
lot of sense as you've written it. 

 Although Curtis was a philosophy major at MIU (as I recall), he seemed to be 
missing a whole chunk of philosophical theology, as Dawkins is. Anybody who 
would use the "I just believe in one god less" gambit thinking it was a 
coherent defense of atheism did not have a complete philosophical education.
 
Thanks for the tip. I'll file it under belief in fairies. Some people get 
intensely philosophical about those too.
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I don't think you know what you're talking about, Buck, if you're saying 
philosophy is sophistry. And the idea of Curtis helping us "sort this out" is 
laughable. Might as well appeal to Richard Dawkins for assistance.
 

 I think Dawkins would be a fine person to get in on the debate. He could tell 
you all about brain evolution and which parts came about when and are common to 
which animals. This might give us an idea about which cognitive elements are 
responsible for mystical states and to find out what cognitive threshold is 
required.
 

 For instance, does a dog have mystical experiences? A fish, spider? I suspect 
our that temporary confusion in the extra complexity in our cerebral cortex - 
missing in most other animals - is responsible for these "higher" states. If, 
say, dogs get them too I would think it's our metaphorical ability and 
willingness to attach "god" labels that blows them out of proportion in a way 
other animals obviously can't. It's the suddenness and the unusual nature of 
mystic states that make them stick in the mind, LSD, meditation, it doesn't 
matter where it cam from. Lawson's post give us a good indication that altering 
brain functioning in some way is how to get them.
 

 I think there's a continuum of potential but normal consciousness, from mental 
illness to things we consider godly, otherwise we are left with the possibility 
that we have our constructed inner world that we take for granted plus a 
different type of consciousness that pops into our heads at certain times but 
is perceived internally in the same way as our normal reality is! I'm no 
dualist but surely there can't be both types, a mind inseperable from our 
brains but also a mystical world made of something else?
 

 I also think Curtis was a very clear thinker. Maybe you just disliked his 
conclusions?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!

“The attribution “Vedic” has 
 important commercial implications that should be attentively examined. The 
 Vedas are nowadays sold as a commercial item, in the form of printed texts, 
 recorded mantras (CD, DVD), or as a packaged tourist destination (Vedic 
 schools, Vedic meditations centres). “Vedic” forms of knowledge are also 
 extensively commercialized: countless services (consultations, courses, 
 stages) and products (Vedic horoscopes, Vedic remedies, Vedic ritual items, 
 etc.) are sold through the web. Participants will then be asked to explore the 
 social networks, the marketing strategies and the material supports used in 
 this “Vedic economy”.
 
 A Lifestyle inspired by the Golden age of the Indian Civilization. 
Chandragupta Maurya ! Ashoka ! Reminiscent of the Golden Age is now a realty. 
Vedic City will be an Epic beginning to a new life.
 
 An Epic beginning to a new life, today we invite you to become a part of that 
mystical grandeur in a Vedic City near you.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vedic Cities.. . ..Live the Golden Age!