[FairfieldLife] Re: A Ducky Morning in France

[lurkernomore20002000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

Perfect!

lurk

 I woke up without an alarm and meditated, then made
 some coffee and wandered out to the terrace overlooking
 the river with my computer. It's a beautiful morning, 
 very Springlike, and down below on the river a guy duck 
 -- obviously from another clan and equally obviously 
 inspired by the Springlike morning -- leaped upon one 
 of the babe ducks and attempted to have...uh...congress 
 with her.
 
 Whereupon five other guy ducks flew over and started
 beating the shit out of the one who had been so bold as
 to want to...uh...infringe upon their territory. They
 pecked at him and kicked him with their little webbed
 feet and finally sent him flying off, hopefully out
 of their lives so that he no longer posed a threat to
 their all-important pecking order and illusion of
 control. The babe duck actually looked a little sad,
 as if she were saying, We were having a good moment
 there, and you guys had to go and mess it up!
 
 The whole scene brought a lump to my throat and made
 me think fondly of Fairfield Life, so I just thought 
 I'd drop in and ask Judy, Sparaig, Peter Klutz, 
 Nablusos and Jim how *you're* doing this fine morning. 
 Chased off any anti-TM ducks today?

[FairfieldLife] Re: A Ducky Morning in France

[nablusos108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I'd drop in and ask Judy, Sparaig, Peter Klutz, 
  Nablusos and Jim how *you're* doing this fine morning. 
  Chased off any anti-TM ducks today?

Thanks for your concern. All is well here, thank you, it's snowing and 
very peaceful.

You might not have gotten this point, but I never ever try to chase off 
anyone. What I object to is this neverending campaign by certain 
energies to try to pull serious meditators off their choosen path. They 
want to sow doubt in seekers, doubt in the practice and doubt in 
Maharishi. And it seems to be a coordinated effort. All the hate they 
project must have a source. I will not speculate on from where this 
hate comes.
I brought in carma once because I think they are doing serious damage 
to their own evolution by doing this. They should just let the 
meditators alone and continue on their own choosen path, it being 
Buddhism or whatever.

[FairfieldLife] Re: A Ducky Morning in France

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusos108 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 
 steve.sundur@ wrote:
   I'd drop in and ask Judy, Sparaig, Peter Klutz, 
   Nablusos and Jim how *you're* doing this fine morning. 
   Chased off any anti-TM ducks today?
 
 Thanks for your concern. All is well here, thank you, it's snowing 
and 
 very peaceful.
 
 You might not have gotten this point, but I never ever try to 
chase off 
 anyone. What I object to is this neverending campaign by certain 
 energies to try to pull serious meditators off their choosen path. 
They 
 want to sow doubt in seekers, doubt in the practice and doubt in 
 Maharishi. And it seems to be a coordinated effort. All the hate 
they 
 project must have a source. I will not speculate on from where 
this 
 hate comes.
 I brought in carma once because I think they are doing serious 
damage 
 to their own evolution by doing this. They should just let the 
 meditators alone and continue on their own choosen path, it being 
 Buddhism or whatever.

I share the same reaction as you do with similar motives. 

However I don't think there is anything bonding for example Vaj and 
Barry save for the fact that they couldn't hack TM and rather than 
deal with that, have taken it upon themselves to point the finger at 
those they see as not doubting their experiences, as if this is a 
sign of naivete, as if not being lost in a spiritual hodge-podge is 
a bad thing, or a sign of immaturity. I don't think there is any 
central conspiracy from which this emanates, except their own fears 
and insecurities.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Ducky Morning in France

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of nablusos108
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 7:50 AM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Ducky Morning in France

 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , lurkernomore20002000 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I'd drop in and ask Judy, Sparaig, Peter Klutz, 
  Nablusos and Jim how *you're* doing this fine morning. 
  Chased off any anti-TM ducks today?

Thanks for your concern. All is well here, thank you, it's snowing and 
very peaceful.

You might not have gotten this point, but I never ever try to chase off 
anyone. What I object to is this neverending campaign by certain 
energies to try to pull serious meditators off their choosen path. They 
want to sow doubt in seekers, doubt in the practice and doubt in 
Maharishi. And it seems to be a coordinated effort. All the hate they 
project must have a source. I will not speculate on from where this 
hate comes.

I don't think Barry, myself, and most others feel hate or are trying to pull
meditators off their chosen path. I still meditate regularly. Our attitude,
at least mine, is that people will be stronger in their spiritual path if
they can learn to look at things honestly without hiding behind unexamined
concepts and beliefs. If people don't want to do that, they shouldn't hang
out on FFL. If this group appeals to them, then they're probably ready to do
that. I say things here that I wouldn't dream of saying to my sister, who
lives on campus and whose husband is on faculty. I believe chicks should
peck their way out of their shells, not have them opened from the outside.
The TMO is an incubator. When you're ready to hatch, you'll know what to do.

[FairfieldLife] Re: A Ducky Morning in France

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Behalf Of nablusos108
 Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 7:50 AM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Ducky Morning in France
 
  
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , lurkernomore20002000 
 steve.sundur@ wrote:
   I'd drop in and ask Judy, Sparaig, Peter Klutz, 
   Nablusos and Jim how *you're* doing this fine morning. 
   Chased off any anti-TM ducks today?
 
 Thanks for your concern. All is well here, thank you, it's snowing 
and 
 very peaceful.
 
 You might not have gotten this point, but I never ever try to 
chase off 
 anyone. What I object to is this neverending campaign by certain 
 energies to try to pull serious meditators off their choosen path. 
They 
 want to sow doubt in seekers, doubt in the practice and doubt in 
 Maharishi. And it seems to be a coordinated effort. All the hate 
they 
 project must have a source. I will not speculate on from where 
this 
 hate comes.
 
 I don't think Barry, myself, and most others feel hate or are 
trying to pull
 meditators off their chosen path. I still meditate regularly. Our 
attitude,
 at least mine, is that people will be stronger in their spiritual 
path if
 they can learn to look at things honestly without hiding behind 
unexamined
 concepts and beliefs. If people don't want to do that, they 
shouldn't hang
 out on FFL. If this group appeals to them, then they're probably 
ready to do
 that. I say things here that I wouldn't dream of saying to my 
sister, who
 lives on campus and whose husband is on faculty. I believe chicks 
should
 peck their way out of their shells, not have them opened from the 
outside.
 The TMO is an incubator. When you're ready to hatch, you'll know 
what to do.

I agree with most of the above, adding one small caveat, that hiding 
behind unexamined concepts and beliefs is not at all limited to 
TMers, as some here apparently see it (though I haven't seen that 
from you Rick). Let's root out any double standards, shall we?

[FairfieldLife] Re: A Ducky Morning in France

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I don't think Barry, myself, and most others feel hate or 
 are trying to pull meditators off their chosen path. I still 
 meditate regularly. Our attitude, at least mine, is that people 
 will be stronger in their spiritual path if they can learn to 
 look at things honestly without hiding behind unexamined
 concepts and beliefs. If people don't want to do that, they 
 shouldn't hang out on FFL. 

Bingo.

Rick COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN CLEARER
about the focus and credo of this discussion group
than he was on its Home page.

There is a concerted effort by a few (and *very*
few) individuals here to portray those who think
critically about TM, Maharishi, the TMO and its
dogma, and other related subjects as being somehow
interlopers here, intruding into their world
and subjecting them to ideas they don't want to
hear.

BUT READ THE HOME PAGE!!!

It says things like What is wanted is not the will 
to believe, but the wish to find out, which is the 
exact opposite. It goes on to say, The healthy 
mind challenges its own assumptions, and Believe 
nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not 
believe what your teacher tells you merely out of 
respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due 
examination and analysis, you find to be kind, 
conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of 
all beings -- that doctrine believe and cling to, 
and take it as your guide.

It does NOT say things like the things that were 
said here today by Nablusos and by Jim, indicating
that they believe that they're under some kind of 
concerted attack here because people discuss the 
very things THAT ARE RIGHT THERE IN THE FORUM'S 
CHARTER.

So WHO are the interlopers? 

Are they the people who come to this forum attracted
by its free-thinking guidelines, so clearly stated
on its Home page, or could it possibly be the people
who actively try to SUPPRESS the free discussion of
information, the wish to find out, and who devote
a great deal of time and energy to demonizing and
practicing character assassination on those FFL
members WHO ARE FOLLOWING ITS CHARTER, while
they are NOT?

 If this group appeals to them, then they're probably ready 
 to do that. I say things here that I wouldn't dream of 
 saying to my sister, who lives on campus and whose husband 
 is on faculty. 

Exactly. If I were on one of the strongly pro-TM forums
on Yahoo, it would be inappropriate for me to discuss
some of the criticisms of TM, the TMO, and Maharishi 
that I freely discuss here. But I'm NOT on one of those
forums. I'm on Fairfield Life, the charter of which is
right there on display on its Home page, and which 
INVITES free discussion and yes, even criticism, of 
TM, the TMO, and Maharishi.

 I believe chicks should peck their way out of their shells, 
 not have them opened from the outside. The TMO is an 
 incubator. When you're ready to hatch, you'll know what to do.

And in the meantime, if you don't like others pecking
at the shell you've erected around yourself to protect
that self from challenging thought, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.
There are forums on Yahoo and other places that are 
DESIGNED for you. Nothing will rock your world or
cause you to think there. And *I*, for one, will not
be there to bother you or intrude into your bliss.

But if you're gonna stay here, on a forum dedicated 
to free thought, try not to whine so much when others
around you actually think, OK?

[FairfieldLife] Re: A Ducky Morning in France

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 But if you're gonna stay here, on a forum dedicated 
 to free thought, try not to whine so much when others
 around you actually think, OK?

double-edged sword, whiner.

[FairfieldLife] Re: A Ducky Morning in France

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  I don't think Barry, myself, and most others feel hate or 
  are trying to pull meditators off their chosen path. I still 
  meditate regularly. Our attitude, at least mine, is that people 
  will be stronger in their spiritual path if they can learn to 
  look at things honestly without hiding behind unexamined
  concepts and beliefs. If people don't want to do that, they 
  shouldn't hang out on FFL. 
 
 Bingo.
 
 Rick COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN CLEARER
 about the focus and credo of this discussion group
 than he was on its Home page.
 
 There is a concerted effort by a few (and *very*
 few) individuals here to portray those who think
 critically about TM, Maharishi, the TMO and its
 dogma, and other related subjects as being somehow
 interlopers here, intruding into their world
 and subjecting them to ideas they don't want to
 hear.

That would be pretty silly, given that the majority
of posters here are critical of TM, MMY, and the
TMO.

More often than not, it appears that TM supporters
are the ones treated as interlopers intruding into
the world of the TM critics and subjecting *them*
to ideas they don't want to hear.

snip
 So WHO are the interlopers? 
 
 Are they the people who come to this forum attracted
 by its free-thinking guidelines, so clearly stated
 on its Home page, or could it possibly be the people
 who actively try to SUPPRESS the free discussion of
 information, the wish to find out, and who devote
 a great deal of time and energy to demonizing and
 practicing character assassination on those FFL
 members WHO ARE FOLLOWING ITS CHARTER, while
 they are NOT?

You, Barry, are absolutely the *last* person who
should be complaining about demonization and
character assassination.  That is your *stock in
trade*, and it's the substance of far more of
your postings than considered, thoughtful
criticism of the TMO and MMY.  Indeed, that's
exactly what you're doing in the paragraph quoted
immediately above.

snip
  I believe chicks should peck their way out of their shells, 
  not have them opened from the outside. The TMO is an 
  incubator. When you're ready to hatch, you'll know what to do.
 
 And in the meantime, if you don't like others pecking
 at the shell you've erected around yourself to protect
 that self from challenging thought, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

No, see, Barry, Jim is saying that it isn't up to you
to peck anybody else's shell.  If they're going to break
out, they'll do it on their own, from the inside.

Voicing your own criticisms of MMY and the TMO is fine.
But you appear to believe that the free discussion
charter means not only freedom for you to criticize but
also freedom from any challenge to that criticism.

That ain't the way it works.  If you don't like it, YOU
go somewhere else.

[FairfieldLife] Re: A Ducky Morning in France

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 No, see, Barry, Jim is saying that it isn't up to you
 to peck anybody else's shell.  If they're going to break
 out, they'll do it on their own, from the inside.
 
 Voicing your own criticisms of MMY and the TMO is fine.
 But you appear to believe that the free discussion
 charter means not only freedom for you to criticize but
 also freedom from any challenge to that criticism.
 
Yep- Many times the ones who appear unbalanced and self-righteous to 
me are those who are trying to challenge the teaching of TM and 
break boundaries supposedly, without examining their own values. Its 
a knee-jerk reaction, and an immature and thoughtless approach. 

I would not categorize any of the posters here on FFL as mindless 
clones of the TMO. Such thinking wouldn't last two minutes here. And 
personally whatever anyone chooses to believe here I am totally OK 
with, as long as they allow me the same freedom. 

What is galling is this fundamentalist thinking that some here have 
where even the merest acknowledgement of TM's unvarnished benefits 
or a mention of Maharishi's exalted state of conciousness sends them 
into tirades, completely obliterating any consideration of the 
writer's decades of research and reflection on these subjects.

A thoughtful challenge is one thing, but a lack of respect knee-jerk 
reaction will just generate more of the same. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: A Ducky Morning in France

[peterklutz]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  I don't think Barry, myself, and most others feel hate or 
  are trying to pull meditators off their chosen path. I still 
  meditate regularly. Our attitude, at least mine, is that people 
  will be stronger in their spiritual path if they can learn to 
  look at things honestly without hiding behind unexamined
  concepts and beliefs. If people don't want to do that, they 
  shouldn't hang out on FFL. 
 
[mercy snip 1] 
 And in the meantime, if you don't like others pecking
 at the shell you've erected around yourself to protect
 that self from challenging thought, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.
 There are forums on Yahoo and other places that are 
 DESIGNED for you. Nothing will rock your world or
 cause you to think there. And *I*, for one, will not
 be there to bother you or intrude into your bliss.
[mercy snip 2]

You analogy fails in many respects, most importantly when overlooking
the facts on the ground when with Vaj and his likes. 

You see Vaj is not remotely interested in hacking open anyone's shell.
He wants to infect our discussions with a virus that ensures we will
molt and rot where we are and never break free from Maya.

The big reason he wants to do this is that he doesn't understand the
fundamental truth of TM.

Thus, what should people who do understand this do - remain forever
silent as a sixth-grader in an organized fashion disrupts discussions
or do we allow ourselves the liberty to say: okay, Mr Sixth-grader
(Vaj) - this is how it really is.

Whatever you chose, I think is well within the charter of this forum.

[FairfieldLife] Re: A Ducky Morning in France

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ 
wrote:
  
   I don't think Barry, myself, and most others feel hate or 
   are trying to pull meditators off their chosen path. I still 
   meditate regularly. Our attitude, at least mine, is that 
people 
   will be stronger in their spiritual path if they can learn to 
   look at things honestly without hiding behind unexamined
   concepts and beliefs. If people don't want to do that, they 
   shouldn't hang out on FFL. 
  
 [mercy snip 1] 
  And in the meantime, if you don't like others pecking
  at the shell you've erected around yourself to protect
  that self from challenging thought, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.
  There are forums on Yahoo and other places that are 
  DESIGNED for you. Nothing will rock your world or
  cause you to think there. And *I*, for one, will not
  be there to bother you or intrude into your bliss.
 [mercy snip 2]
 
 You analogy fails in many respects, most importantly when 
overlooking
 the facts on the ground when with Vaj and his likes. 
 
 You see Vaj is not remotely interested in hacking open anyone's 
shell.
 He wants to infect our discussions with a virus that ensures we 
will
 molt and rot where we are and never break free from Maya.
 
 The big reason he wants to do this is that he doesn't understand 
the
 fundamental truth of TM.
 
 Thus, what should people who do understand this do - remain forever
 silent as a sixth-grader in an organized fashion disrupts 
discussions
 or do we allow ourselves the liberty to say: okay, Mr Sixth-grader
 (Vaj) - this is how it really is.
 
 Whatever you chose, I think is well within the charter of this 
forum.

Or possibility three, laugh at his pompous ass!

[FairfieldLife] Re: A Ducky Morning in France

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I woke up without an alarm and meditated, then made
 some coffee and wandered out to the terrace overlooking
 the river with my computer. It's a beautiful morning, 
 very Springlike, and down below on the river a guy duck 
 -- obviously from another clan and equally obviously 
 inspired by the Springlike morning -- leaped upon one 
 of the babe ducks and attempted to have...uh...congress 
 with her.
 
 Whereupon five other guy ducks flew over and started
 beating the shit out of the one who had been so bold as
 to want to...uh...infringe upon their territory. They
 pecked at him and kicked him with their little webbed
 feet and finally sent him flying off, hopefully out
 of their lives so that he no longer posed a threat to
 their all-important pecking order and illusion of
 control. The babe duck actually looked a little sad,
 as if she were saying, We were having a good moment
 there, and you guys had to go and mess it up!
 
 The whole scene brought a lump to my throat and made
 me think fondly of Fairfield Life, so I just thought 
 I'd drop in and ask Judy, Sparaig, Peter Klutz, 
 Nablusos and Jim how *you're* doing this fine morning. 
 Chased off any anti-TM ducks today?

'cept in your case it is more of an anti-TM vulture rather than a 
duck. Vultures are fair game 'round here

OffWorld