subject:"\[FairfieldLife\] Re\: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's"

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
I'll leave that topic for the diehard M. fans to chew on.
   
   
   Hmmm, so you won't answer the question...
  
  He's like Bush.  He doesn't need to explain himself.
  Didn't you know?
  
 
 Well, maybe he heard it from God.


Well, like Bush, Vaj's base are those elites and near-elites 
fortunate enough to have access to the spiritual resources necessary 
to recognize how superior they are to everyone else...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness seem to miss.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
 IMO, no he does not touch on the full criteria and experience of  
 turiyatita (Cosmic Consciousness),

At least you agree its your opinion...

 let alone the full path to  
 attain it--although he does admit that 1) samkhya is the structure 
of  
 CC and 2) Patanjali the means. If it's obvious to you that you were  
 never taught Patanjali fully, then there's your answer. If you think  
 you already were taught Patanjali, then you already have it.


In your opinion?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Nov 3, 2005, at 10:39 PM, sparaig wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  [...]
 
  told. It's funny where the experience stops is almost always 
there--
  sometimes with the occasional embellishment or addition. That's 
very
  telling, esp. if you have experience yourself...
 
 
  Why share such info in the first place?
 
 Presumably to teach, the impetus being compassion, not ego.


I have a hard time presuming that in this context...







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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  On Nov 4, 2005, at 6:31 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
  
   on 11/4/05 8:04 AM, Paula Youmans at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  
   I get this and find it just as boring a lot of the time and 
would  
   like
   to avoid it if I could.
  
   
   I had the same problem with sleep. I don't think sleeping less 
is  
   a huge sign of enlightenment, so I'm not claiming anything, 
but  
   there was a good year of my life (and it still happens off and 
on)  
   that I was lucky to get 4 hours of sleep. After four to five  
   hours, I was completely awake. Normally I don't think it would 
be  
   so bad, but when you are walking around a house (and a city) 
where  
   everyone else is asleep, the cat and dog are even asleepoh my 
god  
   it can start getting to you. For a couple of months I did a 
lot of  
   writing and art and cleaning and..there are really a LOT of 
hours  
   in a day.
   I just had to retrain myself to sleepwhether I needed it or 
not.
   Now, I can finally lie down and just systematically shut down  
   (thank god) .but I feel bad for people that report these 
types of  
   problems. It can get really disturbing in western society when 
you  
   don't sleep a lot.
   I'm a doltseriously. If I can train myself to sleep normal 
again,  
   then anyone can.
   Good luck to you guysthat bites (I know).
   ~Paula
  
   I enjoy sleeping but I would love to be able to get by on a 
few  
   hours. There are so many things I would rather be doing.  
   Meditating, reading, walking in the woods, etc.
  
  That's the way I feel as well. There's nothing nicer than good 
yogic  
  sleep--as you awake feeling much fresher than even the best 
regular  
  sleep--and then awakening several hours before dawn to do a nice 
long  
  practice in the quiet before sunrise is wonderful.
 
 
 Desires so deep, they even have to do with sleep. :)
 
 Not exactly, nothing can be added to this state, and nothing can be
 taken away.


So true. How about spontaneous right sleep?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's

2005-11-05 Thread Irmeli Mattsson

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Tom T writes:
 It is my experience that one can have complete awareness of
 surroundings during sleep. The only problemo is that of complete and
 utter boredom. It is like watching the old Test Pattern on TV which
 used to be on most of the night. After so many nights of the same
 bedroom and the same bed it is all the same, all the same. After a
 while one just shuts it down. Deep sleep is preferable to total
 boredom. Spend weeks, months and years being aware of your intimate
 surroundings and see how long before you shut it down. TOm


The boredom can be avoided by starting actively in the deep restful
meditative state to pay attention to one's energies. You just observe
if a tiny little feeling of anxiety or some tension can be recognized
somewhere in the body.

Almost always it is the case at least for me. Then I let my attention
just rest on the felt anxiety or tension. Often gradually the
sensation starts to change its character, and finally fear or some
other heavy emotion emerges. At that point it is important to draw the
attention away from the object of one's fear and instead focus on
feeling the fear itself and where it could be located in the body.
This way not a minute is boring.
The only problem is that sometimes the hullabaloo can get too intense.
Deep breathing can be helpful then. If even that doesn't help, I have
gradually figured out some other means to control and work through the
situation.

I need maybe 4 hours deep sleep a night; the rest of the time goes on
like this mostly. I spend in bed about 9 hours. Only occasionally I
sleep normally the whole night. I feel equally good on the daytime
both ways, but I very much prefer the processing because a lot of
healing happens that way.
When I do this processing during the nights I may feel I'm fully
awake, but that's not actually the case. If I go in between the
processing to the loo, often only the other eye opens up. The other
half feels to be calmly sleeping during the whole loo visit.

Irmeli






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness



On Nov 3, 2005, at 10:39 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  [...] told. It's funny where the experience stops is almost always there--  sometimes with the occasional embellishment or addition. That's very   telling, esp. if you have experience yourself...  Why share such info in the first place? Presumably to teach, the impetus being compassion, not ego.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness seem to miss.

On Nov 3, 2005, at 10:39 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 3, 2005, at 8:11 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:On Nov 3, 2005, at 7:46 PM, authfriend wrote: It's mildly interesting to know that different systems put their labels at different stages of the enlightenment process, but it says nothing whatsoever about the relative effectiveness of the systems. That's just it, it's the same label: Mahesh calls it turiyatita also--it's just that he also translates as "Cosmic Consciousness" into English. He has also indicated the traditional synonyms, so it is talking of the same state--although he has only ever given the basic features of someone approaching the state (that I've heard).Whatis your background with MMY's discussions? I've only had the SCI tape course and the busy-work lectures from the TM centers and the busywork lectures from the TM-Sidhis (8-week in residence) course. It seems to me that MMY has touched upon all the criteria that you mentioned earlier at one point or another... I'll leave that topic for the diehard M. fans to chew on. Hmmm, so you won't answer the question... IMO, no he does not touch on the full criteria and experience of turiyatita ("Cosmic Consciousness"), let alone the full path to attain it--although he does admit that 1) samkhya is the structure of CC and 2) Patanjali the means. If it's obvious to you that you were never taught Patanjali fully, then there's your answer. If you think you already were taught Patanjali, then you already have it.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness seem to m



On Nov 4, 2005, at 12:09 AM, akasha_108 wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  I'll leave that topic for the diehard M. fans to chew on.   Hmmm, so you won't answer the question...  He's like Bush.  He doesn't need to explain himself. Didn't you know?   Well, maybe he heard it from God.  Maybe because I know Judy and Lawson possess weapons of mass spiritual destruction (WMSD).I'm sorry, I cannot release my source.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness seem to miss.

On Nov 3, 2005, at 8:33 PM, off_world_beings wrote: You still have to perfect "nirodha", total cessation (of breath and "mind")This is the early stages of TM. Really? In the early stages of TM people cease breathing for hours or day at a time? Are Buddhists still on the slow boat to Never Never Land.Maybe you should ask a Buddhist. and integrate the "rain of virtues", then, maybe, you'll be ready for CC."Rain of Virtues" = Moodmaking (a common Buddhist technique).Rain of Virtues = pada four of Patanjali... retain such knowledge, a species of "photographic memory" is necessary--so much so that volumes of pure knowledge can be seamlessly retained and repeated without flaw (or very minimal error). No. Access through the higher Self to the Akashic realm is all that is needed. It is like the internet. I have a computer, but not all the knowledge of the internet is stored on it, yet I have access to a vast database through the connection. There is no need to remember anythingexcept your higher Self (the transcendent)What higher Self; what "Akashic realm"? --Sleep. In the state of turiyatita, Cosmic Consciousness, sleep become an epiphenomenon rather than the basic phenomenon important for "rest" of the physical body. One of the important qualities of CC is the total integration of the senses with the void.Call a spade a spade. Your 'Void' is called the Transcendent by Maharishi.Well no not really--the "transcendent" is merely the calm state. Whether you ascertain the void or not ( : -) ) is another question.

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RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's












I
get this and find it just as boring a lot of the time and would like
to avoid it
if I could.



I had the same
problem with sleep. I dont think sleeping less is a huge sign of
enlightenment, so Im not claiming anything, but there was a good year of
my life (and it still happens off and on) that I was lucky to get 4 hours of
sleep. After four to five hours, I was completely awake. Normally I dont
think it would be so bad, but when you are walking around a house (and a city)
where everyone else is asleep, the cat and dog are even asleepoh my god
it can start getting to you. For a couple of months I did a lot of writing and
art and cleaning and..there are really a LOT of hours in a day. 

I just had to
retrain myself to sleepwhether I needed it or not. 

Now, I can
finally lie down and just systematically shut down (thank god) .but I
feel bad for people that report these types of problems. It can get really
disturbing in western society when you dont sleep a lot. 

Im a
doltseriously. If I can train myself to sleep normal again, then anyone
can.

Good luck to
you guysthat bites (I know).

~Paula












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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness seem to m

2005-11-04 Thread akasha_108

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Nov 4, 2005, at 12:09 AM, akasha_108 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
  wrote:
 
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I'll leave that topic for the diehard M. fans to chew on.
 
  Hmmm, so you won't answer the question...
 
 
  He's like Bush.  He doesn't need to explain himself.
  Didn't you know?
 
 
  Well, maybe he heard it from God.
 
 Maybe because I know Judy and Lawson possess weapons of mass  
 spiritual destruction (WMSD).
 
 I'm sorry, I cannot release my source.

Um, Tim Russert ?







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness seem to m



On Nov 4, 2005, at 10:25 AM, akasha_108 wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   On Nov 4, 2005, at 12:09 AM, akasha_108 wrote:  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" [EMAIL PROTECTED]   wrote:   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  I'll leave that topic for the diehard M. fans to chew on.  Hmmm, so you won't answer the question...   He's like Bush.  He doesn't need to explain himself. Didn't you know?   Well, maybe he heard it from God.  Maybe because I know Judy and Lawson possess weapons of mass   spiritual destruction (WMSD).  I'm sorry, I cannot release my source.  Um, Tim Russert ? Although we retain the right to leak it at anytime





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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness seem to miss.

2005-11-04 Thread cardemaister

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Nov 3, 2005, at 8:33 PM, off_world_beings wrote:
 
   You still have to perfect nirodha, total cessation (of 
breath
  and mind) 
 
 
  This is the early stages of TM.
 
 Really? In the early stages of TM people cease breathing for hours 
or  
 day at a time?
 
  Are Buddhists still on the slow boat to Never Never Land.
 
 Maybe you should ask a Buddhist.
 
 
 
  and integrate the rain of virtues, then, maybe, you'll be 
ready
  for CC. 
 
 
  Rain of Virtues = Moodmaking (a common Buddhist technique).
 
 Rain of Virtues = pada four of Patanjali...

Well, yeah! And according to Taimni, dharma-megha-
samaadhi is the highest degree of (nirbiija-)samaadhi!

prasaMkhyaane 'py akusiidasya sarvathaa
*viveka-khyaater* dharma-meghaH samaadhiH (IV 29)








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's

on 11/4/05 8:04 AM, Paula Youmans at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I get this and find it just as boring a lot of the time and would like
to avoid it if I could.

I had the same problem with sleep. I dont think sleeping less is a huge sign of enlightenment, so Im not claiming anything, but there was a good year of my life (and it still happens off and on) that I was lucky to get 4 hours of sleep. After four to five hours, I was completely awake. Normally I dont think it would be so bad, but when you are walking around a house (and a city) where everyone else is asleep, the cat and dog are even asleepoh my god it can start getting to you. For a couple of months I did a lot of writing and art and cleaning and..there are really a LOT of hours in a day.
I just had to retrain myself to sleepwhether I needed it or not.
Now, I can finally lie down and just systematically shut down (thank god) .but I feel bad for people that report these types of problems. It can get really disturbing in western society when you dont sleep a lot.
Im a doltseriously. If I can train myself to sleep normal again, then anyone can.
Good luck to you guysthat bites (I know).
~Paula

I enjoy sleeping but I would love to be able to get by on a few hours. There are so many things I would rather be doing. Meditating, reading, walking in the woods, etc.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's


On Nov 4, 2005, at 6:31 PM, Rick Archer wrote:

 on 11/4/05 8:04 AM, Paula Youmans at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 I get this and find it just as boring a lot of the time and would  
 like
 to avoid it if I could.

 
 I had the same problem with sleep. I don’t think sleeping less is  
 a huge sign of enlightenment, so I’m not claiming anything, but  
 there was a good year of my life (and it still happens off and on)  
 that I was lucky to get 4 hours of sleep. After four to five  
 hours, I was completely awake. Normally I don’t think it would be  
 so bad, but when you are walking around a house (and a city) where  
 everyone else is asleep, the cat and dog are even asleep…oh my god  
 it can start getting to you. For a couple of months I did a lot of  
 writing and art and cleaning and…..there are really a LOT of hours  
 in a day.
 I just had to retrain myself to sleep…whether I needed it or not.
 Now, I can finally lie down and just systematically shut down  
 (thank god) ….but I feel bad for people that report these types of  
 problems. It can get really disturbing in western society when you  
 don’t sleep a lot.
 I’m a dolt…seriously. If I can train myself to sleep normal again,  
 then anyone can.
 Good luck to you guys…that bites (I know).
 ~Paula

 I enjoy sleeping but I would love to be able to get by on a few  
 hours. There are so many things I would rather be doing.  
 Meditating, reading, walking in the woods, etc.

That's the way I feel as well. There's nothing nicer than good yogic  
sleep--as you awake feeling much fresher than even the best regular  
sleep--and then awakening several hours before dawn to do a nice long  
practice in the quiet before sunrise is wonderful.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's

on 11/4/05 5:35 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 That's the way I feel as well. There's nothing nicer than good yogic
 sleep--as you awake feeling much fresher than even the best regular
 sleep--and then awakening several hours before dawn to do a nice long
 practice in the quiet before sunrise is wonderful.

Is that what you do, or is that what you would like to do? You may have
posted this already, but is there anything one can do to trigger yogic
sleep. I went through a phase when I was in Mürren, Switzerland with
Maharishi when I was meditating about 4 hours a day and going to bed early.
I'd leave my window open, sometimes with snow blowing in, but slept under a
big Swiss quilt, so I was warm. I'd sleep flat on my back and not feel the
need to roll over all night. I'd go very deep and wake up refreshed after
fewer hours than I usually needed.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's

2005-11-04 Thread akasha_108

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Nov 4, 2005, at 6:31 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
 
  on 11/4/05 8:04 AM, Paula Youmans at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  I get this and find it just as boring a lot of the time and would  
  like
  to avoid it if I could.
 
  
  I had the same problem with sleep. I don't think sleeping less is  
  a huge sign of enlightenment, so I'm not claiming anything, but  
  there was a good year of my life (and it still happens off and on)  
  that I was lucky to get 4 hours of sleep. After four to five  
  hours, I was completely awake. Normally I don't think it would be  
  so bad, but when you are walking around a house (and a city) where  
  everyone else is asleep, the cat and dog are even asleepoh my god  
  it can start getting to you. For a couple of months I did a lot of  
  writing and art and cleaning and..there are really a LOT of hours  
  in a day.
  I just had to retrain myself to sleepwhether I needed it or not.
  Now, I can finally lie down and just systematically shut down  
  (thank god) .but I feel bad for people that report these types of  
  problems. It can get really disturbing in western society when you  
  don't sleep a lot.
  I'm a doltseriously. If I can train myself to sleep normal again,  
  then anyone can.
  Good luck to you guysthat bites (I know).
  ~Paula
 
  I enjoy sleeping but I would love to be able to get by on a few  
  hours. There are so many things I would rather be doing.  
  Meditating, reading, walking in the woods, etc.
 
 That's the way I feel as well. There's nothing nicer than good yogic  
 sleep--as you awake feeling much fresher than even the best regular  
 sleep--and then awakening several hours before dawn to do a nice long  
 practice in the quiet before sunrise is wonderful.


Desires so deep, they even have to do with sleep. :)

Not exactly, nothing can be added to this state, and nothing can be
taken away.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's

2005-11-04 Thread shempmcgurk

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 11/4/05 5:35 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  That's the way I feel as well. There's nothing nicer than good 
yogic
  sleep--as you awake feeling much fresher than even the best 
regular
  sleep--and then awakening several hours before dawn to do a nice 
long
  practice in the quiet before sunrise is wonderful.
 
 Is that what you do, or is that what you would like to do? You may 
have
 posted this already, but is there anything one can do to trigger 
yogic
 sleep. I went through a phase when I was in Mürren, Switzerland 
with
 Maharishi when I was meditating about 4 hours a day and going to 
bed early.
 I'd leave my window open, sometimes with snow blowing in, but 
slept under a
 big Swiss quilt, so I was warm. I'd sleep flat on my back and not 
feel the
 need to roll over all night. I'd go very deep and wake up 
refreshed after
 fewer hours than I usually needed.


When were you in Murren, Rick, and for how long?

I suspect it was in April-May of 1974?  Because that is where I did 
my TTC, starting in early May of 1974.

Murren is one of the most beautiful spots I've ever been in...one 
can only get there by cablecar or tram...no automobiles allowed!






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's

on 11/4/05 6:23 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 When were you in Murren, Rick, and for how long?
 
 I suspect it was in April-May of 1974?  Because that is where I did
 my TTC, starting in early May of 1974.

We were there with Maharishi for a month that Spring. I think the TTC came
in when we left for Lake Lucerne.
 
 Murren is one of the most beautiful spots I've ever been in...one
 can only get there by cablecar or tram...no automobiles allowed!

No cars possible. It's perched on a ledge with a 3,000 foot drop off to the
valley below. The Eiger is across the valley. Incredible place. A James Bond
film was filmed there.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's

2005-11-04 Thread shempmcgurk

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 11/4/05 6:23 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  When were you in Murren, Rick, and for how long?
  
  I suspect it was in April-May of 1974?  Because that is where I 
did
  my TTC, starting in early May of 1974.
 
 We were there with Maharishi for a month that Spring. I think the 
TTC came
 in when we left for Lake Lucerne.


Yes, that was our course that came in...it was a staff course, 
very small, about 40 people...after three months we went for the 
final 6 weeks to Seelisberg.



  
  Murren is one of the most beautiful spots I've ever been in...one
  can only get there by cablecar or tram...no automobiles allowed!
 
 No cars possible. It's perched on a ledge with a 3,000 foot drop 
off to the
 valley below. The Eiger is across the valley.


Actually, in order, there are the Eiger (where Clint Eastwood 
filmed The Eiger Sanction a year later), Munch, and the Yungfrau.


 Incredible place. A James Bond
 film was filmed there.


Yes, it was On Her Majesty's Secret Service starring George 
Lazenby which filmed at the Shilthorn which was the next stop up the 
mountain from Murren.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's

2005-11-04 Thread gullible fool


 Meditating, reading, walking in
 the woods, etc.

You have woods there, now?

--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 on 11/4/05 8:04 AM, Paula Youmans at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  I get this and find it just as boring a lot of the
 time and would like
  to avoid it if I could.
  
  
  I had the same problem with sleep. I don¹t think
 sleeping less is a huge sign
  of enlightenment, so I¹m not claiming anything,
 but there was a good year of
  my life (and it still happens off and on) that I
 was lucky to get 4 hours of
  sleep. After four to five hours, I was completely
 awake. Normally I don¹t
  think it would be so bad, but when you are walking
 around a house (and a city)
  where everyone else is asleep, the cat and dog are
 even asleepoh my god it
  can start getting to you. For a couple of months I
 did a lot of writing and
  art and cleaning and..there are really a LOT of
 hours in a day.
  I just had to retrain myself to sleepwhether I
 needed it or not.
  Now, I can finally lie down and just
 systematically shut down (thank god)
  .but I feel bad for people that report these
 types of problems. It can get
  really disturbing in western society when you
 don¹t sleep a lot.
  I¹m a doltseriously. If I can train myself to
 sleep normal again, then anyone
  can.
  Good luck to you guysthat bites (I know).
  ~Paula
  
 I enjoy sleeping but I would love to be able to get
 by on a few hours. There
 are so many things I would rather be doing.
 Meditating, reading, walking in
 the woods, etc.
 





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's

on 11/4/05 8:35 PM, gullible fool at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 Meditating, reading, walking in
 the woods, etc.

Plenty of them. Jefferson County Park for starters. About 5 miles of trails
through the woods there. Lansom woods just down the street from me. Lots of
other woods with trails in them within a 20 minute drive. In fact, speaking
of trails, a 17-mile trail encircling Fairfield is about half completed.
Much of it goes through wooded areas.




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RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's

   
I enjoy sleeping but I would love to be able to get by on a few  
hours. There are so many things I would rather be doing.  
Meditating, reading, walking in the woods, etc.

That's the way I feel as well. There's nothing nicer than good yogic  
sleep--as you awake feeling much fresher than even the best regular  
sleep--and then awakening several hours before dawn to do a nice long  
practice in the quiet before sunrise is wonderful.

 
You guys are ever the optimist :). I should be so productive! 
After everything else got old I started talking to people in parts of the
world that are the perfect time offset for the middle of the night/early
morning for us lol. Even that gets old after a couple of months (even though
I learned a lot). 
The thing I don't like is that feeling of always being...present. Sleep to
me is like a vacation.  A little break from...having to function.  
Sleep...just average, everyday; totally out of it sleep was like the hope
diamond to me. 
I hope those days are behind me for goodI really do. 

~Paula




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RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's











Desires so deep, they even have to do with sleep. :)

Not exactly, nothing can be added to this
state, and nothing can be
taken away.











Heyyou try sleeping for 4 hours a
night for a year or so and tell me what weird ass hobbies youve picked
up lol. 

I think people *seriously* underestimate the amount of time in a day



Maybe a more developed person would handle
it betterbut me, oooh it was getting maddening!












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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's





on 11/4/05 11:57 PM, Paula Youmans at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Desires so deep, they even have to do with sleep. :)

Not exactly, nothing can be added to this state, and nothing can be
taken away.

 
Heyyou try sleeping for 4 hours a night for a year or so and tell me what weird ass hobbies youve picked up lol. 
I think people *seriously* underestimate the amount of time in a day

Maybe a more developed person would handle it betterbut me, oooh it was getting maddening!

You have kids dont you? Dont you cherish some quiet hours to yourself?






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's

on 11/4/05 11:53 PM, Paula Youmans at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 I enjoy sleeping but I would love to be able to get by on a few
 hours. There are so many things I would rather be doing.
 Meditating, reading, walking in the woods, etc.
 
 That's the way I feel as well. There's nothing nicer than good yogic
 sleep--as you awake feeling much fresher than even the best regular
 sleep--and then awakening several hours before dawn to do a nice long
 practice in the quiet before sunrise is wonderful.
 
  
 You guys are ever the optimist :). I should be so productive!
 After everything else got old I started talking to people in parts of the
 world that are the perfect time offset for the middle of the night/early
 morning for us lol. Even that gets old after a couple of months (even though
 I learned a lot).
 The thing I don't like is that feeling of always being...present. Sleep to
 me is like a vacation.  A little break from...having to function.
 Sleep...just average, everyday; totally out of it sleep was like the hope
 diamond to me. 
 I hope those days are behind me for goodI really do.

Aside from the fact that you had too much time on your hands and you were
always conscious, how did you feel? Did you feel good, or strung out, tired,
and wired?




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RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's











Aside from the fact that you had too much time on your
hands and you were
always conscious, how did you feel? Did you feel
good, or strung out, tired,
and wired?



I felt goodgenerally. Not tired at
all or I could have slept I am assuming. 

It felt like being very awake. Kind of how
you would feel after exercise (mentally speaking). Well, I guess I shouldnt
say that.Ive got no freaking idea how other people feel after
they exercise. Have you ever had someone clap loud in front of your face? Its
a very present feeling. 



 You have
kids dont you? Dont you cherish some quiet hours to yourself?



I have a daughter that just turned one
(dang shes cute too). Hmm, yes I like some time to myself but I dont
need that much time lol. 

I mean even think about that walk; I
love to walk but a 7+hour walk is kind of crazy on a daily basis. So I take my
walk, Then meditate and read.then look at the clock and go [EMAIL PROTECTED] its
like 4:30 am. Then after becoming firm in the decision that I cant
just wake her up to play with me at that hour, I decide to go see who can chat
in Bangalore,
etc. etc.

I mean, this isnt one nightor
a month or even two..know what I mean? This went on for a long
long long long time. 

At first its great and you get a
lot done, then wowI just ended up dinking around a lot really.
Learned some stuff. 

If it ever happens again for a long
stretch I will seriously think about just taking another job. 

I wonder if thats how retired
people feel? 












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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness seem to miss.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Sometimes it's weird knowing the Enlightened Emperor is wearing no  
 clothes.
 
 A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness  
 seem to miss. Funny how you only get as enlightened as you were
 told to...

Vaj, you'd be a lot less confused if you just
considered MMY's system on its own terms and
didn't keep trying to compare it with other
systems that may use similar terms to mean
very different things with different criteria.

Also, of course, that MMY defines CC in a certain
way doesn't mean no TMer progresses to states
beyond what MMY defines as CC.  You only get as
enlightened as you were told to sounds like you
think MMY says what he defines as CC is the
ultimate state of consciousness, but that isn't
the case.

 
 --Viveka-khyati, grokking the distinction between buddhi and 
purusha  
 ain't final realization, it's just another beginning. You still 
have  
 to perfect nirodha, total cessation (of breath and mind) and  
 integrate the rain of virtues, then, maybe, you'll be ready for 
CC.  
 Maybe. There's more to it than you might have been told or are  
 capable of believing. If you already know, then please tell me.
 
 --People who are perfecting nirodha, when they are merely resting,  
 that is not moving about here and there, go spontaneously into a 
very  
 refined breath. They might only breathe once or twice a minute. 
This  
 is often a very difficult process to go through. Can you tell us 
what  
 that is like?
 
 In meditation one will be able to easily cease all signs of 
external  
 breathing for extended periods of time.
 
 --Superknowledge. When consciousness rests naturally next to the 
all- 
 ground, the place where all of manifest creation emerges, it's  
 natural to experience superknowledge, knowledge above and beyond  
 what is normally available, even if you spent your entire waking 
life  
 in devoted book-study. For example, you might gain the entire  
 knowledge of an Ayurvedic physician through extraordinary means. 
To  
 retain such knowledge, a species of photographic memory is  
 necessary--so much so that volumes of pure knowledge can be  
 seamlessly retained and repeated without flaw (or very minimal 
error).
 
 --Sleep. In the state of turiyatita, Cosmic Consciousness, sleep  
 become an epiphenomenon rather than the basic phenomenon important  
 for rest of the physical body. One of the important qualities of 
CC  
 is the total integration of the senses with the void. Because of 
this  
 it is a unique style--one of the few or only styles--of sleep 
where  
 where the unconscious part of the mind actually rests. Because 
of  
 this unique quality only a couple of hours of sleep a night are  
 required. In advanced yogis they may not even need to leave their  
 meditative posture.
 
 Since integration of the senses with pure consciousness is 
complete  
 in CC, one retains complete awareness of surroundings during 
sleep.  
 That is, one would continue to hear sounds and feel sensations, etc.
 
 --Siddhi and mahasiddhi: before one attains full realization  
 (mahasiddhi), one will often experience siddhis. In the state of  
 realization, mahasiddhi, when can perform siddhis at will.
 
 etc.
 
 
 
 
 
 ---
 The Sun is bound by the sound of the Sun
 And the Moon by the Sound of the Moon.
 He who knows this can can capture the three worlds
 in an instant. - shiva-svarodaya







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness seem to miss.

2005-11-03 Thread Vaj


On Nov 3, 2005, at 6:49 PM, authfriend wrote:

 Vaj, you'd be a lot less confused if you just
 considered MMY's system on its own terms and
 didn't keep trying to compare it with other
 systems that may use similar terms to mean
 very different things with different criteria.

No confusion here. I've been very fortunate. There will always be  
people who just believe what they're told and then defend that.

And there will be seekers who don't believe something because someone  
tells them. They seek the truth.

Big picture, little picture--take your pick!





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness seem to miss.

2005-11-03 Thread Vaj


On Nov 3, 2005, at 7:46 PM, authfriend wrote:

 It's mildly interesting to know that different
 systems put their labels at different stages of the
 enlightenment process, but it says nothing
 whatsoever about the relative effectiveness of the
 systems.

That's just it, it's the same label: Mahesh calls it turiyatita also-- 
it's just that he also translates as Cosmic Consciousness into  
English. He has also indicated the traditional synonyms, so it is  
talking of the same state--although he has only ever given the basic  
features of someone approaching the state (that I've heard).



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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness seem to miss.

2005-11-03 Thread sparaig

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Nov 3, 2005, at 7:46 PM, authfriend wrote:
 
  It's mildly interesting to know that different
  systems put their labels at different stages of the
  enlightenment process, but it says nothing
  whatsoever about the relative effectiveness of the
  systems.
 
 That's just it, it's the same label: Mahesh calls it turiyatita also--
 
 it's just that he also translates as Cosmic Consciousness into  
 English. He has also indicated the traditional synonyms, so it is  
 talking of the same state--although he has only ever given the basic  
 features of someone approaching the state (that I've heard).


Whatis your background with MMY's discussions? I've only had the SCI 
tape course and the busy-work lectures from the TM centers and the 
busywork lectures from the TM-Sidhis (8-week in residence) course.

It seems to me that MMY has touched upon all the criteria that you 
mentioned earlier at one point or another...







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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness seem to miss.

2005-11-03 Thread off_world_beings

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Sometimes it's weird knowing the Enlightened Emperor is wearing 
no  
 clothes.
 
 A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic 
Consciousness  
 seem to miss. Funny how you only get as enlightened as you were 
told  to...


Judge not, for with what measure you judge so shall you be judged.


 --Viveka-khyati, grokking the distinction between buddhi and 
purusha ain't final realization, it's just another beginning.


Lol, Buddhi and Purusha within the field of Anatman. 


 You still have to perfect nirodha, total cessation (of breath 
and mind) 


This is the early stages of TM. 
Are Buddhists still on the slow boat to Never Never Land.


and integrate the rain of virtues, then, maybe, you'll be ready 
for CC. 


Rain of Virtues = Moodmaking (a common Buddhist technique).
 

There's more to it than you mightare capable of believing. 


How arrogant. 


If you already know, then please tell me.


Ask a question, and someone can answer. How can someone answer a 
question you do not ask.


  They might only breathe once or twice a minute. This  
 is often a very difficult process to go through. Can you tell us 
what  that is like?


Common experience for me, profound and irrefutable empirical 
knowledge.


 In meditation one will be able to easily cease all signs of 
external  breathing for extended periods of time.


Why bother trying, just be. It is not something to try for, merely a 
nice side effect of exiting in the right state.


 --Superknowledge. When consciousness rests naturally next to the 
all- ground, the place where all of manifest creation emerges, it's  
 natural to experience superknowledge, knowledge above and 
beyond  what is normally available, even if you spent your entire 
waking life  in devoted book-study. For example, you might gain the 
entire  knowledge of an Ayurvedic physician through extraordinary 
means. 


True, but you also might fool yourself into thinking that you gained 
the entire  knowledge of an Ayurvedic physician through 
extraordinary means. 

  
 retain such knowledge, a species of photographic memory is  
 necessary--so much so that volumes of pure knowledge can be  
 seamlessly retained and repeated without flaw (or very minimal 
error).


No. Access through the higher Self to the Akashic realm is all that 
is needed. It is like the internet. I have a computer, but not all 
the knowledge of the internet is stored on it, yet I have access to 
a vast database through the connection. There is no need to remember 
anythingexcept your higher Self (the transcendent)


--Sleep. In the state of turiyatita, Cosmic Consciousness, sleep  
 become an epiphenomenon rather than the basic phenomenon 
important  for rest of the physical body. One of the important 
qualities of CC   is the total integration of the senses with the 
void. 


Call a spade a spade. Your 'Void' is called the Transcendent by 
Maharishi.


Because of this  
 it is a unique style--one of the few or only styles--of sleep 
where   where the unconscious part of the mind actually rests. 
Because of  this unique quality only a couple of hours of sleep a 
night are  required. In advanced yogis they may not even need to 
leave their  meditative posture.


True.


 
 Since integration of the senses with pure consciousness is 
complete   in CC, one retains complete awareness of surroundings 
during sleep.  That is, one would continue to hear sounds and feel 
sensations, etc.


Probably not, because one doesn't want to. It is what one wants that 
occurs.


 --Siddhi and mahasiddhi: before one attains full realization  
 (mahasiddhi), one will often experience siddhis. In the state of  
 realization, mahasiddhi, when can perform siddhis at will.


Probly right


OffWorld






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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
snip
 One point I took away, with endless descriptions of deep experience,
 with MMY commenting, night after night, month after month,  was
 labeling was not very important. People had good experience and he
 would say, very good .. keep rounding. And that  enlightenment was
 never self-proclaimed. Therefore, at least to me, lots of 
proclaiming,
 lots of labeling, lots of prouncments that THIS is the enlightenment
 experience, NOT that, all seem very non-MMY to me. It is people out
 doing their own thing, not part of what MMY taught.

That's been my impression, although I haven't been
around him personally.

snip
 For example, vaj's point,  Siddhi and mahasiddhi: before one 
attains
 full realization  (mahasiddhi), one will often experience siddhis. 
In
 the state of  realization, mahasiddhi, when can perform siddhis at
 will., to me seems close to what MMY told us when he first gave out
 the siddhis. That performance of the siddhi's was the acid-test of 
cc.
 (I know now some say he said UC, but I heard cc on the first sidhi's
 course, maybe he changed it later, maybe some didn't hear it 
directly
 at all, but the exaggeration/rumor mill version of it evolved to 
uc.)

FWIW, it was definitely UC when I took the TM-Sidhis
in 1984.  And I'm virtually positive in an issue I have
of Modern Science and Vedic Science, in a long article
on the TM-Sidhis, he is quoted as saying exactly that.
Unfortunately the issue is in storage.

snip
 think enlightenment is.  The point being, I and others are not hung
 up on expectations, personally having abandoned such, but simply
 pointing out what MMY said. Thus one can claim Fred's 
Enlightenment
 and describe it anyway one likes, but you can't claim MMY's CC 
without
 having the criteria he set out for it.

Exactly.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness seem to miss.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Nov 3, 2005, at 7:46 PM, authfriend wrote:
 
  It's mildly interesting to know that different
  systems put their labels at different stages of the
  enlightenment process, but it says nothing
  whatsoever about the relative effectiveness of the
  systems.
 
 That's just it, it's the same label: Mahesh calls it turiyatita 
also-- 
 it's just that he also translates as Cosmic Consciousness into  
 English. He has also indicated the traditional synonyms, so it is  
 talking of the same state--although he has only ever given the 
basic  
 features of someone approaching the state (that I've heard).

Remember that the vast majority of the people he's
teaching are householders, not professional seekers.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's

2005-11-03 Thread jyouells2000

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- Vaj wrote: 
  Since integration of the senses with pure consciousness is complete  
  in CC, one retains complete awareness of surroundings during sleep.  
  That is, one would continue to hear sounds and feel sensations, etc.
 
 Peter of the No I writes:
 Lots of good stuff in your post, Vaj, but I have
 serious questions regarding the above. Awareness of
 surroundings, but not through the senses. The buddhi
 doesn't function on a gross level during sleep.
 
 Tom T writes:
 It is my experience that one can have complete awareness of
 surroundings during sleep. The only problemo is that of complete and
 utter boredom. It is like watching the old Test Pattern on TV which
 used to be on most of the night. After so many nights of the same
 bedroom and the same bed it is all the same, all the same. After a
 while one just shuts it down. Deep sleep is preferable to total
 boredom. Spend weeks, months and years being aware of your intimate
 surroundings and see how long before you shut it down. TOm

Or you can project and fly around a bit ;-) 
Less boring, but make sure you only go East ;-) 









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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness

2005-11-03 Thread sparaig

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 snip
  One point I took away, with endless descriptions of deep 
experience,
  with MMY commenting, night after night, month after month,  was
  labeling was not very important. People had good experience and he
  would say, very good .. keep rounding. And that  enlightenment 
was
  never self-proclaimed. Therefore, at least to me, lots of 
 proclaiming,
  lots of labeling, lots of prouncments that THIS is the 
enlightenment
  experience, NOT that, all seem very non-MMY to me. It is people 
out
  doing their own thing, not part of what MMY taught.
 
 That's been my impression, although I haven't been
 around him personally.
 
 snip
  For example, vaj's point,  Siddhi and mahasiddhi: before one 
 attains
  full realization  (mahasiddhi), one will often experience 
siddhis. 
 In
  the state of  realization, mahasiddhi, when can perform siddhis at
  will., to me seems close to what MMY told us when he first gave 
out
  the siddhis. That performance of the siddhi's was the acid-test 
of 
 cc.
  (I know now some say he said UC, but I heard cc on the first 
sidhi's
  course, maybe he changed it later, maybe some didn't hear it 
 directly
  at all, but the exaggeration/rumor mill version of it evolved to 
 uc.)
 
 FWIW, it was definitely UC when I took the TM-Sidhis
 in 1984.  And I'm virtually positive in an issue I have
 of Modern Science and Vedic Science, in a long article
 on the TM-Sidhis, he is quoted as saying exactly that.
 Unfortunately the issue is in storage.

I think the Sidhis manifest due to CC transitioning, however briefly, 
to UC.

 
 snip
  think enlightenment is.  The point being, I and others are not 
hung
  up on expectations, personally having abandoned such, but simply
  pointing out what MMY said. Thus one can claim Fred's 
 Enlightenment
  and describe it anyway one likes, but you can't claim MMY's CC 
 without
  having the criteria he set out for it.
 
 Exactly.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: A Short List of Items People Claiming MMY's Cosmic Consciousness seem to miss.