[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rory: How do you know this is impossible, Judy, if you haven't tried it? Judy: Oh, for heaven's sake, of course I've tried it. Rory: Yes? With whom? I hope you had company. Most people find it far easier and more effective the first few times if they are accompanied by a guide, rebirther or the like: one who has traversed and integrated the ignorance themselves. The ignorance can indeed be pretty damned scary to go into alone at first. Oh, so now I have to have a guide. Have to? No, not at all. Some don't. It can just make it easier, particularly if one feels (as you seem to) that it is actually undoable, that you have tried it and failed. Who is going to make or allow that slight but crucial adjustment if not you? Judy: What you are you talking about? Rory: Just you. Judy: And what on earth leads you to think that it's something you *make*? Rory: If not you, then who? Emphasis on make, Rory. Try again. I am intentionally putting the emphasis on you rather than on *make*, as angle lies somewhere in between or inclusive of both *make* and *allow* :-) When (if ever) do you plan to make or allow it? Judy: I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Rory: How will you know when it is ready to happen? I won't know until it happens. How are you going to let it happen if you won't know until it happens? Who do you think is going to do this for you? Time? :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
Judy: I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Rory: How will you know when it is ready to happen? I won't know until it happens. How are you going to let it happen if you won't know until it happens? Who do you think is going to do this for you? Time? Scotty. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Judy: And what on earth leads you to think that it's something you *make*? Rory: If not you, then who? Emphasis on make, Rory. Try again. I am intentionally putting the emphasis on you rather than on *make*, as angle lies somewhere in between or inclusive of both *make* and *allow* :-) What on earth leads you to think that it has anything to do with make? When (if ever) do you plan to make or allow it? Judy: I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Rory: How will you know when it is ready to happen? I won't know until it happens. How are you going to let it happen if you won't know until it happens? Huh? Why do I have to know in advance? Who do you think is going to do this for you? Time? Transcending regularly, then acting. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Judy: And what on earth leads you to think that it's something you *make*? Rory: If not you, then who? Emphasis on make, Rory. Try again. I am intentionally putting the emphasis on you rather than on *make*, as angle lies somewhere in between or inclusive of both *make* and *allow* :-) What on earth leads you to think that it has anything to do with make? What on earth leads you to think that it doesn't? When (if ever) do you plan to make or allow it? Judy: I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Rory: How will you know when it is ready to happen? I won't know until it happens. How are you going to let it happen if you won't know until it happens? Huh? Why do I have to know in advance? Yeah, exactly. Who do you think is going to do this for you? Time? Transcending regularly, then acting. OK, good luck with that... *end transmission* :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Judy: And what on earth leads you to think that it's something you *make*? Rory: If not you, then who? Emphasis on make, Rory. Try again. I am intentionally putting the emphasis on you rather than on *make*, as angle lies somewhere in between or inclusive of both *make* and *allow* :-) What on earth leads you to think that it has anything to do with make? When (if ever) do you plan to make or allow it? Judy: I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Rory: How will you know when it is ready to happen? I won't know until it happens. How are you going to let it happen if you won't know until it happens? Huh? Why do I have to know in advance? Who do you think is going to do this for you? Time? Transcending regularly, then acting. Except that, with TM, there's no guarantee of EVER transcending until you're enlightened. So at least within the TM context, the process isn't quite what you said. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Judy: And what on earth leads you to think that it's something you *make*? Rory: If not you, then who? Emphasis on make, Rory. Try again. I am intentionally putting the emphasis on you rather than on *make*, as angle lies somewhere in between or inclusive of both *make* and *allow* :-) What on earth leads you to think that it has anything to do with make? When (if ever) do you plan to make or allow it? Judy: I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Rory: How will you know when it is ready to happen? I won't know until it happens. How are you going to let it happen if you won't know until it happens? Huh? Why do I have to know in advance? Who do you think is going to do this for you? Time? Transcending regularly, then acting. Except that, with TM, there's no guarantee of EVER transcending until you're enlightened. So at least within the TM context, the process isn't quite what you said. Transcending = practicing TM, i.e., experiencing subtler levels of thought and getting deep rest. What there's no guarantee of until you're enlightened is experiencing transcendental consciousness by itself. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Judy: And what on earth leads you to think that it's something you *make*? Rory: If not you, then who? Emphasis on make, Rory. Try again. I am intentionally putting the emphasis on you rather than on *make*, as angle lies somewhere in between or inclusive of both *make* and *allow* :-) What on earth leads you to think that it has anything to do with make? When (if ever) do you plan to make or allow it? Judy: I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Rory: How will you know when it is ready to happen? I won't know until it happens. How are you going to let it happen if you won't know until it happens? Huh? Why do I have to know in advance? Who do you think is going to do this for you? Time? Transcending regularly, then acting. Except that, with TM, there's no guarantee of EVER transcending until you're enlightened. So at least within the TM context, the process isn't quite what you said. Transcending = practicing TM, i.e., experiencing subtler levels of thought and getting deep rest. What there's no guarantee of until you're enlightened is experiencing transcendental consciousness by itself. The ole Big-T vs little-t transcending thing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rory: How do you know this is impossible, Judy, if you haven't tried it? Judy: Oh, for heaven's sake, of course I've tried it. Rory: Yes? With whom? I hope you had company. Most people find it far easier and more effective the first few times if they are accompanied by a guide, rebirther or the like: one who has traversed and integrated the ignorance themselves. The ignorance can indeed be pretty damned scary to go into alone at first. Oh, so now I have to have a guide. Have to? No, not at all. Some don't. It can just make it easier, particularly if one feels (as you seem to) that it is actually undoable, that you have tried it and failed. Who is going to make or allow that slight but crucial adjustment if not you? Judy: What you are you talking about? Rory: Just you. Judy: And what on earth leads you to think that it's something you *make*? Rory: If not you, then who? Emphasis on make, Rory. Try again. I am intentionally putting the emphasis on you rather than on *make*, as angle lies somewhere in between or inclusive of both *make* and *allow* :-) When (if ever) do you plan to make or allow it? Judy: I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Rory: How will you know when it is ready to happen? I won't know until it happens. How are you going to let it happen if you won't know until it happens? Who do you think is going to do this for you? Time? :-) This exchange reminds me of a title of a thread on here about Maharishi refusing to levitate... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rory: How do you know this is impossible, Judy, if you haven't tried it? Judy: Oh, for heaven's sake, of course I've tried it. Rory: Yes? With whom? I hope you had company. Most people find it far easier and more effective the first few times if they are accompanied by a guide, rebirther or the like: one who has traversed and integrated the ignorance themselves. The ignorance can indeed be pretty damned scary to go into alone at first. Oh, so now I have to have a guide. Have to? No, not at all. Some don't. It can just make it easier, particularly if one feels (as you seem to) that it is actually undoable, that you have tried it and failed. Who is going to make or allow that slight but crucial adjustment if not you? Judy: What you are you talking about? Rory: Just you. Judy: And what on earth leads you to think that it's something you *make*? Rory: If not you, then who? Emphasis on make, Rory. Try again. I am intentionally putting the emphasis on you rather than on *make*, as angle lies somewhere in between or inclusive of both *make* and *allow* :-) When (if ever) do you plan to make or allow it? Judy: I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Rory: How will you know when it is ready to happen? I won't know until it happens. How are you going to let it happen if you won't know until it happens? Who do you think is going to do this for you? Time? :-) This exchange reminds me of a title of a thread on here about Maharishi refusing to levitate... How very peculiar. Did you actually *read* the exchange? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] My only criterion, for instance, is not to be overshadowed. Thinking about that thought, paraphrasing, I just don't want to be oveshadowed gets funnier and funnier the more it is contemplated and considered. Its like a perfect jeweled Russian egg, that cracks perfectly in four places to reveal itself. Might I suggest you're wildly overinterpreting it? (Like Rory.) Though I suspect this may be a huh moment for some. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom T writes: No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be able to hold all that in the awake mind. akasha_108 wrote: Then it must be possible to be able to hold all that in the unawake mind too. All Possibilities. Rory wrote: Right; no real difference between ignorance and enlightenment, or between being asleep and being awake snip Akasha108 wrote: then why bring it up? You tell me; you're the one who brought it up; I was just agreeing with you :-) Rory wrote: -- though oddly enough, as we have seen, Akasha108 wrote: We have seen? I missed that paper, in what journal was that study published? Rory: The Journal of Irreproducible Results, vol. 1008, no. 108 IIRC. No, seriously -- we have seen here on FFL, the only journal really worth reading at this moment IMNSHO :-) Rory wrote: only the experientially awake appear generally able to appreciate this to any visceral extent, Akasha108 wrote: How many times do I have to tell you??!! Its an Understanding, not an Experience!! :) Rory writes: *lol* Yes; visceral appreciation is part of the full-bodied flavor of Understanding; it is not an experience, something enshrined in space and time as a memory or a desire, but we might certainly say that Understanding includes Experience, the two married together as ever-present apperception a la Jean Kline :-) Rory: while the self- diagnosed unawake or not yet awake often would appear Akasha108: appear to whom? Rory: Yes, appear to whom? Who is (t)here? Who is questioning, and who is answering? Who is writing, and who is reading? How many of Us are there, anyhow? rather strenuously engaged in denying their (seemingly) self- evident Akasha: straining is a bummer Rory: leads (or can lead) to hemorrhoids, I am told awake presence in favor of some not-present (not-here-now) idealized criteria. Akasha: Or maybe lots of other alternatives. (Tom doesn't like your black and white views, it appears.) No, Tom generally likes mine, because we speak the truth; we just don't like anyone else's, because if they pretend they are someone else, they are lying :-) This self-denial would thus appear Akasha: appear to whom? Rory: You tell me, Mr. A; appear to whom? Akasha: appearance as in apparition? Rory: appear as in appear? :-) always to be itself a self- referent mistake of the intellect: Akasha: God made faulty machinery? Has he issued a recall? Rory: *lol* Who says it was faulty? And who is he? attributing some imaginary (not- here-now) properties Akasha: What else is here other than the here and now? Are you imagining things again? :) Rory: Yes! :-) :-) (or shoulds) Akasha: and who is your imaginary attributor? Rory: Yes, Who? It would appear there is only one of us :-) to what is without properties Akasha: guess they won't hurt when the real estate / properties bubble burts Rory: There you go with those hemorrhoids again :-) or only truly simply and nakedly what is in this moment, here- now, Akasha: what else is there? Only one drawn to or absorbed to the other will be aware of it. Rory: What other? You are confusing me :-) and then bewailing the absence of these same imaginary properties (or the presence of other less-desired imaginary properties) here- now, and thus invoking an overlay of space-time-desire etc. Akasha: Again, only one who imagines such can be aware of such, absorbed into such. Rory: Yes, of course. Only one. And yet somehow the intellect is eventually able to see through this same not-here-now overlay and abandon it Akasha: I thought the intellect was broken. Did it get fixed? Rory: Who said it was broken? Presumably that's the same one who who could conceive of its being fixed...? :-) into what always is, has always been, and always will be, the (non)radiant emptifulness of (not)self itself... Akasha: Ah, you took that Simuladvaita class. Was it good? Rory: It takes one to know one; you tell me; is it good? :-) How can that which is and has always been and will always be self- sufficient, self-evident and self-effulgent, ever hide itself from itself? Akasha: I don't know. The question never arises where duality is absent. Rory: Never? But what about All Possibilities? That was our whole point, wasn't it? :-) Akasha: But, have patience, in time such duality disolves and such silly thoughts cease to arise. Rory: Are we sure? How do we know this is true if we are not experiencing it in this moment? My guess is that we get attached to those very descriptors (or ones
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Let's say we don't get attached. Let's say we've never *been* attached. Let's say human beans have always been realized. How far back would that apply, do you think, given that human beans--Homo sapiens--didn't emerge full- blown from the head of Zeus but evolved gradually from earlier humanoid species? Judy: Don't you believe in creative design? Huh? Creationism...you know, Adam, Eve, the Snake, the whole damn thing... Uh, no, I don't believe in creationism. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rory wrote: Right; no real difference between ignorance and enlightenment, or between being asleep and being awake -- though oddly enough, as we have seen, only the experientially awake appear generally able to appreciate this to any visceral extent, while the self- diagnosed unawake or not yet awake often would appear rather strenuously engaged in denying their (seemingly) self- evident awake presence in favor of some not-present (not-here- now) idealized criteria. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or not. My only criterion, for instance, is not to be overshadowed. Judy, if that is a criterion that is not evidently present here- now, then I would respectfully suggest it is idealized, conceptual, and *obscuring* the perfect grace of the simple reality which is your birthright from yourself to yourself in this moment. In other words, I can pretty much guarantee you that as long as you are looking to be not overshadowed, that desire *itself* is going to overshadow you. You are bigger than the goal you are imagining; you can't shoehorn yourself with integrity into something that small. You can't deny any of it; you contain *all of it* :-) Never mind. snip How can that which is and has always been and will always be self- sufficient, self-evident and self-effulgent, ever hide itself from itself? My guess is that we get attached to those very descriptors (or ones like them) as ideas or ideals and use them to *obscure* the reality they are intended to *describe* (which can of course appear quite horrible, gnarly, and so on as well as stunningly beautiful, etc.), and so the projection is underway, and don't we all love a good movie! Judy wrote: Take a minute for a little thought experiment, Rory. Let's say we don't get attached. Let's say we've never *been* attached. Let's say human beans have always been realized. How far back would that apply, do you think, given that human beans--Homo sapiens--didn't emerge full- blown from the head of Zeus but evolved gradually from earlier humanoid species? Such is not precisely my understanding or experience, so far as self- aware consciousness goes. That evidently exists a priori. Yes, we apparently incarnate or have incarnated earlier forms of primate (as well as countless other forms, of course), but as far as I can see, that self-realization or self-awareness has always been present, before dropping into those forms, while in those forms, and after leaving those forms. And then I've got another question or two. As always, I am at your service, O She-who-is-wide-awake-even-in- sleep :-) Never mind. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom T writes: It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same time. Tom Judy writes: Or none of the above... Tom T: Which part of all possibilities isn't clear? Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna. As if he knew better than anyone else? :-) Sorry, just always amused by the authority thang. What's amusing is the idea that the citation of a particular person's thoughts is always a manifestation of the authority thing, as if it could only be an attempt to trump other thoughts. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
On 9/27/05 12:51 AM, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: into what always is, has always been, and always will be, the (non)radiant emptifulness of (not)self itself... Ah, you took that Simuladvaita class. Was it good? ROFLOL! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
What's amusing is the idea that the citation of a particular person's thoughts is always a manifestation of the authority thing, as if it could only be an attempt to trump other thoughts. The real amusement is that you are saying this. I recall you to be one of the core quoting parrots of A.M.T. What a hoot... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy: Well, that could be the last experience you need to have to wake up, no? Depends on what you mean by wake up. In general one gains the View, the living, breathing experience and certainty as to what the state of Unity *is*. Doubt falls away and one gains confidence of the View. But really it is just a new beginning, preceding towards total enlightenment. One must continue in the View. Especially when Barbara Walters is on. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, eptfnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's amusing is the idea that the citation of a particular person's thoughts is always a manifestation of the authority thing, as if it could only be an attempt to trump other thoughts. The real amusement is that you are saying this. I recall you to be one of the core quoting parrots of A.M.T. What a hoot... What you appear to have missed is that when I quote or cite somebody, I usually do it in the context of, This is what so-and-so says, not Because so-and-so says this, therefore it is true. Barry consistently gets these two mixed up as well, just as he did with regard to my citation of Nagarjuna. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] My only criterion, for instance, is not to be overshadowed. Thinking about that thought, paraphrasing, I just don't want to be oveshadowed gets funnier and funnier the more it is contemplated and considered. Its like a perfect jeweled Russian egg, that cracks perfectly in four places to reveal itself. Might I suggest you're wildly overinterpreting it? (Like Rory.) You are truly free to suggest. May I suggest, that while you brought up the phrase in your post, that the phrase can also transcend your own particular situation. And in a more universal application of the phrase, (as I intended it, though perhaps not clearly expressed) it is funny to me. No interpretation involved. Its an authentic reaction to the phrase. OK. I think you're suggesting that it's something of an infinite regress, that one can be overshadowed by the desire not to be overshadowed. But that's the nature of the beast, part of why ignorance is so sticky. The point I was making to Rory, though, is that with me it's not a matter of having some set of idealized criteria for realization, i.e., what I expect realization to be like; rather, my single criterion for realization is *not* having the fundamental criterion for ignorance. I don't know what it's like to be realized; I do know what it's like to be ignorant, in other words. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: May I suggest, that while you brought up the phrase in your post, that the phrase can also transcend your own particular situation. And in a more universal application of the phrase, (as I intended it, though perhaps not clearly expressed) it is funny to me. No interpretation involved. Its an authentic reaction to the phrase. OK. I think you're suggesting that it's something of an infinite regress, that one can be overshadowed by the desire not to be overshadowed. No, thats not quite the angle that struck me as so funny. The deliciousness of the phrase is more a mu experience, a la whats wrong with this picture. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: May I suggest, that while you brought up the phrase in your post, that the phrase can also transcend your own particular situation. And in a more universal application of the phrase, (as I intended it, though perhaps not clearly expressed) it is funny to me. No interpretation involved. Its an authentic reaction to the phrase. OK. I think you're suggesting that it's something of an infinite regress, that one can be overshadowed by the desire not to be overshadowed. No, thats not quite the angle that struck me as so funny. The deliciousness of the phrase is more a mu experience, a la whats wrong with this picture. What's wrong with the picture of somebody not wanting to be overshadowed? You've got me curious--can you articulate it? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: May I suggest, that while you brought up the phrase in your post, that the phrase can also transcend your own particular situation. And in a more universal application of the phrase, (as I intended it, though perhaps not clearly expressed) it is funny to me. No interpretation involved. Its an authentic reaction to the phrase. OK. I think you're suggesting that it's something of an infinite regress, that one can be overshadowed by the desire not to be overshadowed. No, thats not quite the angle that struck me as so funny. The deliciousness of the phrase is more a mu experience, a la whats wrong with this picture. What's wrong with the picture of somebody not wanting to be overshadowed? You've got me curious--can you articulate it? Perhaps. But not nearly as well as getting the joke, not as well as laughter articulates it. Independent of your use of the phrase, just consider and contemplate for 5-10 minutes the phrase I just don't want to be overshadowed. Without looking for it, see if within that time period, you have a background/foreground optical illusion type moment. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] My only criterion, for instance, is not to be overshadowed. Akasha108 writes: Thinking about that thought, paraphrasing, I just don't want to be oveshadowed gets funnier and funnier the more it is contemplated and considered. Its like a perfect jeweled Russian egg, that cracks perfectly in four places to reveal itself. Though I suspect this may be a huh moment for some. Tom T: YES YES You got it. HA ha ha ha What ever it takes You will have every experience/understanding you need to have! Tom PS watch out! the next step is appreciating this all on many and all levels. The appreciation is first known as laughter and then deepens into the understanding that finishes the job. That is where the phrase from Patajali finest discriminative knowledge comes from see chapter 3 vs's 52 to 55 Shearer translation. Have some more fun. Laughter is good. Yes? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
Judy writes: I don't know what it's like to be realized; I do know what it's like to be ignorant, in other words. Tom T: no difference Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: May I suggest, that while you brought up the phrase in your post, that the phrase can also transcend your own particular situation. And in a more universal application of the phrase, (as I intended it, though perhaps not clearly expressed) it is funny to me. No interpretation involved. Its an authentic reaction to the phrase. OK. I think you're suggesting that it's something of an infinite regress, that one can be overshadowed by the desire not to be overshadowed. No, thats not quite the angle that struck me as so funny. The deliciousness of the phrase is more a mu experience, a la whats wrong with this picture. What's wrong with the picture of somebody not wanting to be overshadowed? You've got me curious--can you articulate it? Perhaps. But not nearly as well as getting the joke, not as well as laughter articulates it. Independent of your use of the phrase, just consider and contemplate for 5-10 minutes the phrase I just don't want to be overshadowed. Without looking for it, see if within that time period, you have a background/foreground optical illusion type moment. If that isn't the infinite-regress aspect I suggested, I suspect I'd have to not be overshadowed to get it, at least without more clues. When it's in words, without looking for it is inoperative for me, like Don't think of an elephant. My intellect can *sometimes* translate a linear expression into something mu-like, though, or at least get me close enough to the mu-level that I can make the leap. It happens just often enough that I'm inclined to press for intellectual clues when there's a mu-thing I'm not getting on its own level. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. What's wrong with this picture? is a good clue, but it isn't quite enough. Don't want to spoil it for you, though, so... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK. I think you're suggesting that it's something of an infinite regress, that one can be overshadowed by the desire not to be overshadowed. But that's the nature of the beast, part of why ignorance is so sticky. The point I was making to Rory, though, is that with me it's not a matter of having some set of idealized criteria for realization, i.e., what I expect realization to be like; rather, my single criterion for realization is *not* having the fundamental criterion for ignorance. Yes, that alone is sufficient to overshadow realization -- denying the validity (perfection, is-ness, ever-presence, whatever) of your fundamental criterion for ignorance -- trying *not* to embody the fundamental criterion for ignorance. In denying ignorance (tamas), we cling to clarity (sattva), and get (as if) stuck inside the gunas, rather than remembering they are all merely ideas *in us* :-) I don't know what it's like to be realized; I do know what it's like to be ignorant, in other words. Being realized isn't like anything -- other than (say, in that moment) Judy writing she doesn't know what it's like to be realized, but knows what it's like to be ignorant. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/27/05 9:38 AM, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/26/05 10:52 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The koan that does the job. You will have every experience you need to have till you finally wake up a quote from a friend. I wouldn't consider that a koan. Also it says, in effect, the awakened state (brahmavidya or rigpa) is conditioned by relative conditions--a gradual path, not a sudden path. Awakening can happening at any moment, esp. if one is being given a pointing out instruction through direct introduction. Well, that could be the last experience you need to have to wake up, no? Depends on what you mean by wake up. Actually I meant whatever Tom had in mind. In general one gains the View, the living, breathing experience and certainty as to what the state of Unity *is*. Doubt falls away and one gains confidence of the View. But really it is just a new beginning, preceding towards total enlightenment. One must continue in the View. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Akasha: I rather look directly into the projector from 3 away. Rory: That explains a lot :-) When you are the screen, you can drink life from a firehose. Akasha Sutras VI:23:07 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy writes: I don't know what it's like to be realized; I do know what it's like to be ignorant, in other words. Tom T: no difference You've forgotten what it's like to be in ignorance. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
On 9/27/05 2:15 PM, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy writes: I don't know what it's like to be realized; I do know what it's like to be ignorant, in other words. Tom T: no difference You've forgotten what it's like to be in ignorance. It's called retirement. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
Judy writes: I don't know what it's like to be realized; I do know what it's like to be ignorant, in other words. Tom T: no difference Judy writes; You've forgotten what it's like to be in ignorance. Tom T: Actually I have not forgotten but I can no longer ignore what is really going on. That is why we call it ignorance. I am not try be cute. Just stating what seems to be self evident. Everything feels the same except for that surety of being. Or as Vaj puts it the POV or view. The POV has shifted and every thing is the same and nothing is the same. Damndest thing. I feel just as I did before except for that surety of being. It will have you also otherwise we wouldn't be having this exchange and you wouldn't be hanging out here. Let it find you and see what happens. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy writes: I don't know what it's like to be realized; I do know what it's like to be ignorant, in other words. Tom T: no difference Judy writes; You've forgotten what it's like to be in ignorance. Tom T: Actually I have not forgotten but I can no longer ignore what is really going on. That is why we call it ignorance. I am not try be cute. I'm sure you're not, but you are incorrect; to be ignorant does *not* mean to ignore, it means to lack knowledge--in this case, of what is really going on. Just stating what seems to be self evident. I don't have any quarrel with your stating what is self-evident *to you*, only that it is somehow self-evident *to me* and I'm just willfully ignoring it or denying it. Everything feels the same except for that surety of being. And it's that EXCEPT FOR that's the key, Tom. What you've forgotten is what it's like to be *without* that surety of being. Now that you have it, there's no way you could remember what it's like to be without it, any more than I am able to know, now, what it's like to *have* it. Or as Vaj puts it the POV or view. The POV has shifted and every thing is the same and nothing is the same. Damndest thing. It *is* the damndest thing. It's as if realization isn't backwards-compatible. I feel just as I did before except for that surety of being. It will have you also otherwise we wouldn't be having this exchange and you wouldn't be hanging out here. Let it find you and see what happens. I'm right here. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy writes: I don't know what it's like to be realized; I do know what it's like to be ignorant, in other words. Tom T: no difference You've forgotten what it's like to be ignorant. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom T writes: No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be able to hold all that in the awake mind. akasha_108 wrote: Then it must be possible to be able to hold all that in the unawake mind too. All Possibilities. Rory wrote: Right; no real difference between ignorance and enlightenment, or between being asleep and being awake snip Akasha108 wrote: then why bring it up? You tell me; you're the one who brought it up; I was just agreeing with you :-) Rory wrote: -- though oddly enough, as we have seen, Akasha108 wrote: We have seen? I missed that paper, in what journal was that study published? Rory: The Journal of Irreproducible Results, vol. 1008, no. 108 IIRC. No, seriously -- we have seen here on FFL, the only journal really worth reading at this moment IMNSHO :-) Rory wrote: only the experientially awake appear generally able to appreciate this to any visceral extent, Akasha108 wrote: How many times do I have to tell you??!! Its an Understanding, not an Experience!! :) Rory writes: *lol* Yes; visceral appreciation is part of the full-bodied flavor of Understanding; it is not an experience, something enshrined in space and time as a memory or a desire, but we might certainly say that Understanding includes Experience, the two married together as ever-present apperception a la Jean Kline :-) Rory: while the self- diagnosed unawake or not yet awake often would appear Akasha108: appear to whom? Rory: Yes, appear to whom? Who is (t)here? Who is questioning, and who is answering? Who is writing, and who is reading? How many of Us are there, anyhow? rather strenuously engaged in denying their (seemingly) self- evident Akasha: straining is a bummer Rory: leads (or can lead) to hemorrhoids, I am told awake presence in favor of some not-present (not-here-now) idealized criteria. Akasha: Or maybe lots of other alternatives. (Tom doesn't like your black and white views, it appears.) No, Tom generally likes mine, because we speak the truth; we just don't like anyone else's, because if they pretend they are someone else, they are lying :-) This self-denial would thus appear Akasha: appear to whom? Rory: You tell me, Mr. A; appear to whom? Akasha: appearance as in apparition? Rory: appear as in appear? :-) always to be itself a self- referent mistake of the intellect: Akasha: God made faulty machinery? Has he issued a recall? Rory: *lol* Who says it was faulty? And who is he? attributing some imaginary (not- here-now) properties Akasha: What else is here other than the here and now? Are you imagining things again? :) Rory: Yes! :-) :-) (or shoulds) Akasha: and who is your imaginary attributor? Rory: Yes, Who? It would appear there is only one of us :-) to what is without properties Akasha: guess they won't hurt when the real estate / properties bubble burts Rory: There you go with those hemorrhoids again :-) or only truly simply and nakedly what is in this moment, here- now, Akasha: what else is there? Only one drawn to or absorbed to the other will be aware of it. Rory: What other? You are confusing me :-) and then bewailing the absence of these same imaginary properties (or the presence of other less-desired imaginary properties) here- now, and thus invoking an overlay of space-time-desire etc. Akasha: Again, only one who imagines such can be aware of such, absorbed into such. Rory: Yes, of course. Only one. And yet somehow the intellect is eventually able to see through this same not-here-now overlay and abandon it Akasha: I thought the intellect was broken. Did it get fixed? Rory: Who said it was broken? Presumably that's the same one who who could conceive of its being fixed...? :-) into what always is, has always been, and always will be, the (non)radiant emptifulness of (not)self itself... Akasha: Ah, you took that Simuladvaita class. Was it good? Rory: It takes one to know one; you tell me; is it good? :-) How can that which is and has always been and will always be self- sufficient, self-evident and self-effulgent, ever hide itself from itself? Akasha: I don't know. The question never arises where duality is absent. Rory: Never? But what about All Possibilities? That was our whole point, wasn't
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Let's say we don't get attached. Let's say we've never *been* attached. Let's say human beans have always been realized. How far back would that apply, do you think, given that human beans--Homo sapiens--didn't emerge full- blown from the head of Zeus but evolved gradually from earlier humanoid species? Judy: Don't you believe in creative design? Huh? Creationism...you know, Adam, Eve, the Snake, the whole damn thing... Uh, no, I don't believe in creationism. You mean you don't believe that all of creation came out of the belly of Brahma who came out of a lotus leaf? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy writes: I don't know what it's like to be realized; I do know what it's like to be ignorant, in other words. Tom T: no difference You've forgotten what it's like to be in ignorance. And if you did that, you wouldn't be saying all this silly stuff about being ignorant. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/27/05 2:15 PM, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy writes: I don't know what it's like to be realized; I do know what it's like to be ignorant, in other words. Tom T: no difference You've forgotten what it's like to be in ignorance. It's called retirement. I thought that's what you did with replicants. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: May I suggest, that while you brought up the phrase in your post, that the phrase can also transcend your own particular situation. And in a more universal application of the phrase, (as I intended it, though perhaps not clearly expressed) it is funny to me. No interpretation involved. Its an authentic reaction to the phrase. OK. I think you're suggesting that it's something of an infinite regress, that one can be overshadowed by the desire not to be overshadowed. No, thats not quite the angle that struck me as so funny. The deliciousness of the phrase is more a mu experience, a la whats wrong with this picture. What's wrong with the picture of somebody not wanting to be overshadowed? You've got me curious--can you articulate it? I'd love to hear akasha's answer, but mine would be, It's a marvelous way of clinging to the notion of unenlightenment. To want to not be overshadowed, you have to believe you are. And the funny thing is, the moment you drop that belief, you aren't. Yeah, that answer would be bull. And yours would be more clinging. You don't want to be enlightened. You want to understand enlightenment. Not gonna happen. :-) Especially from somebody who admits he isn't enlightened. But I lie. Don't you remember? :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, yes! it must be enlightenment - I-I understand all [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;-) Amazing Yup. But at the same time, it's not the kinda conversation you necessarily want to add your name to in the list of credits. :-) Its that just some are not attached to not looking silly. :) And I find logical conversations with Rory to be pretty useless. But he can be fun to play with. Sometimes. :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy writes: I don't know what it's like to be realized; I do know what it's like to be ignorant, in other words. Tom T: no difference You've forgotten what it's like to be in ignorance. And if you did that, you wouldn't be saying all this silly stuff about being ignorant. (Silly to whom? To you? Now, *that's* silly.) Forgetting isn't something one can do intentionally, so it's an inappropriate term. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: May I suggest, that while you brought up the phrase in your post, that the phrase can also transcend your own particular situation. And in a more universal application of the phrase, (as I intended it, though perhaps not clearly expressed) it is funny to me. No interpretation involved. Its an authentic reaction to the phrase. OK. I think you're suggesting that it's something of an infinite regress, that one can be overshadowed by the desire not to be overshadowed. No, thats not quite the angle that struck me as so funny. The deliciousness of the phrase is more a mu experience, a la whats wrong with this picture. What's wrong with the picture of somebody not wanting to be overshadowed? You've got me curious--can you articulate it? I'd love to hear akasha's answer, but mine would be, It's a marvelous way of clinging to the notion of unenlightenment. To want to not be overshadowed, you have to believe you are. And the funny thing is, the moment you drop that belief, you aren't. Yeah, that answer would be bull. And yours would be more clinging. It would be authentic. You don't want to be enlightened. You want to understand enlightenment. Um, no. Just don't want to be overshadowed, as I said. Not gonna happen. :-) Especially from somebody who admits he isn't enlightened. But I lie. Don't you remember? :-) Yup. You said I had lied when I said you tried to give the impression you were enlightened. Funny how you're always complaining about the ethics of the TMO. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Especially from somebody who admits he isn't enlightened. But I lie. Don't you remember? :-) Yup. You said I had lied when I said you tried to give the impression you were enlightened. Judy, you haven't been paying attention to the posts here. If you had, you would have noticed that I got over the not enlightened thing some time ago, as a result of conver- sations here and the realizations they triggered. You could, too, if you weren't such a tightass. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, yes! it must be enlightenment - I-I understand all [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;-) Amazing Yup. But at the same time, it's not the kinda conversation you necessarily want to add your name to in the list of credits. :-) Its that just some are not attached to not looking silly. :) Which is pretty darned silly in itself. :-) And I find logical conversations with Rory to be pretty useless. But he can be fun to play with. Sometimes. :) Absolutely. Truth is, I was in an all-day meeting and missed out on joining in. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: May I suggest, that while you brought up the phrase in your post, that the phrase can also transcend your own particular situation. And in a more universal application of the phrase, (as I intended it, though perhaps not clearly expressed) it is funny to me. No interpretation involved. Its an authentic reaction to the phrase. OK. I think you're suggesting that it's something of an infinite regress, that one can be overshadowed by the desire not to be overshadowed. No, thats not quite the angle that struck me as so funny. The deliciousness of the phrase is more a mu experience, a la whats wrong with this picture. What's wrong with the picture of somebody not wanting to be overshadowed? You've got me curious--can you articulate it? I'd love to hear akasha's answer, but mine would be, It's a marvelous way of clinging to the notion of unenlightenment. To want to not be overshadowed, you have to believe you are. And the funny thing is, the moment you drop that belief, you aren't. Yeah, that answer would be bull. And yours would be more clinging. You don't want to be enlightened. You want to understand enlightenment. Not gonna happen. :-) Especially from somebody who admits he isn't enlightened. But I lie. Don't you remember? :-) Don't take this all so seriously, Judy. I don't know about these other guys, but I'm just majorly amused tonight at you pretending not to be enlightened, and striving so hard to keep up the pretense. I think it was Akasha who suggested something for you to actually *do* to experience enlightenment. You blew it off. You will never actually try it. And a few weeks from now you'll be back complaining that you're still in ignorance. If that's not funny, what is? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Especially from somebody who admits he isn't enlightened. But I lie. Don't you remember? :-) Yup. You said I had lied when I said you tried to give the impression you were enlightened. Judy, you haven't been paying attention to the posts here. If you had, you would have noticed that I got over the not enlightened thing some time ago, as a result of conver- sations here and the realizations they triggered. So you were lying when you said *I* was lying. I see. You could, too, if you weren't such a tightass. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Don't take this all so seriously, Judy. I don't know about these other guys, but I'm just majorly amused tonight at you pretending not to be enlightened, and striving so hard to keep up the pretense. You keep getting the words wrong, Barry. And you a writer... To pretend something, you have to know it isn't true. I think it was Akasha who suggested something for you to actually *do* to experience enlightenment. Gosh, I could have sworn it was you who keeps saying there *isn't* anything you can do to experience enlightenment. You blew it off. I did? You will never actually try it. I won't? I haven't? And a few weeks from now you'll be back complaining that you're still in ignorance. I've never complained about being in ignorance. If that's not funny, what is? Your inability to deal with reality. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Don't take this all so seriously, Judy. I don't know about these other guys, but I'm just majorly amused tonight at you pretending not to be enlightened, and striving so hard to keep up the pretense. You keep getting the words wrong, Barry. And you a writer... To pretend something, you have to know it isn't true. Exactly. You know that it isn't true that you are not enlightened. I think it was Akasha who suggested something for you to actually *do* to experience enlightenment. Gosh, I could have sworn it was you who keeps saying there *isn't* anything you can do to experience enlightenment. There isn't. But you still didn't do it. Truly foolish. You blew it off. I did? You will never actually try it. I won't? I haven't? You did. You won't. You haven't. And a few weeks from now you'll be back complaining that you're still in ignorance. I've never complained about being in ignorance. You've never BEEN ignorant. But you complain about it anyway. Go figure. If that's not funny, what is? Your inability to deal with reality. Says the woman who is pretending to be unenlightened. You'll never get any of this until you do, Judy. And then it'll seem very funny... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK. I think you're suggesting that it's something of an infinite regress, that one can be overshadowed by the desire not to be overshadowed. But that's the nature of the beast, part of why ignorance is so sticky. The point I was making to Rory, though, is that with me it's not a matter of having some set of idealized criteria for realization, i.e., what I expect realization to be like; rather, my single criterion for realization is *not* having the fundamental criterion for ignorance. Yes, that alone is sufficient to overshadow realization -- denying the validity I'm not denying anything. I'm describing what is the case for me. That's my reality. (perfection, is-ness, ever-presence, whatever) of your fundamental criterion for ignorance -- trying *not* to embody the fundamental criterion for ignorance. I'm not trying to do anything. I'm describing what is the case for me. That's my reality. In denying ignorance (tamas), we cling to clarity (sattva), and get (as if) stuck inside the gunas, rather than remembering they are all merely ideas *in us* :-) I don't know what it's like to be realized; I do know what it's like to be ignorant, in other words. Being realized isn't like anything Yes, it is. It's like being realized. It's *not* like being in ignorance. -- other than (say, in that moment) Judy writing she doesn't know what it's like to be realized, but knows what it's like to be ignorant. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Don't take this all so seriously, Judy. I don't know about these other guys, but I'm just majorly amused tonight at you pretending not to be enlightened, and striving so hard to keep up the pretense. You keep getting the words wrong, Barry. And you a writer... To pretend something, you have to know it isn't true. Exactly. You know that it isn't true that you are not enlightened. Au contraire, mon vieux. I think it was Akasha who suggested something for you to actually *do* to experience enlightenment. Gosh, I could have sworn it was you who keeps saying there *isn't* anything you can do to experience enlightenment. There isn't. But you still didn't do it. Truly foolish. Well, it wouldn't be foolish not to do it if it wouldn't do the trick. You blew it off. I did? You will never actually try it. I won't? I haven't? You did. You won't. You haven't. Au contraire, mon vieux. Bad guess on your part. And a few weeks from now you'll be back complaining that you're still in ignorance. I've never complained about being in ignorance. You've never BEEN ignorant. But you complain about it anyway. Go figure. Let me say it another way: I've never complained about being in ignorance. Are there any words in that sentence you don't understand? If that's not funny, what is? Your inability to deal with reality. Says the woman who is pretending to be unenlightened. To pretend something, you have to know it isn't true. I believe I already pointed this out. Were there some words you didn't understand? You'll never get any of this until you do, Judy. And then it'll seem very funny... I think what bothers you so much is that you need to legitimize your pretension to enlightenment, and my honesty about not being enlightened makes that more difficult. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK. I think you're suggesting that it's something of an infinite regress, that one can be overshadowed by the desire not to be overshadowed. But that's the nature of the beast, part of why ignorance is so sticky. The point I was making to Rory, though, is that with me it's not a matter of having some set of idealized criteria for realization, i.e., what I expect realization to be like; rather, my single criterion for realization is *not* having the fundamental criterion for ignorance. Rory: Yes, that alone is sufficient to overshadow realization -- denying the validity snip Judy: I'm not denying anything. I'm describing what is the case for me. That's my reality. Rory: Right, and nicely so. Yet it appears you are saying that *this* -- whatever it is -- *isn't* It. That's all I meant by denying -- denying the presence of It in this moment, by virtue of comparing this not-It moment with some other moment, not-now, elsewhen/elsewhere -- some other moment that apparently had more clarity, more Presence. I am suggesting that that longed-for clarity and Presence is nothing other than a side-effect of our unconditional attention and appreciation of whatever we are undergoing in this moment. So long as we do *not* appreciate *this* moment as a god-given gift we have not yet fully unwrapped and understood -- that long do we find it to be shrouded in darkness, ignorance, fear, suffering, and so on: the darkness and ignorance of our own lack of attention and unconditional appreciation. When we simply be with it, breathe with it, allow ourselves to feel it in the body non-judgmentally (this too is good -- or ...God or ...bliss --), relaxing into it while appreciating it, then it lightens up. It becomes integrated into our larger Whole, ceasing to be a (minor or major) demon plaguing us (actually, painfully demanding our attention and love), and now becoming a part of our angelic choir :-) (perfection, is-ness, ever-presence, whatever) of your fundamental criterion for ignorance -- trying *not* to embody the fundamental criterion for ignorance. Judy: I'm not trying to do anything. I'm describing what is the case for me. That's my reality. Rory: Yes, I believe I get that, and I get that you feel powerless to do anything about it, other than meditate and wait. So be it. I am perfectly OK with that reality if you are; if you are not, then I am suggesting an alternate POV and some methods that may shortcut the process, and even collapse it into this moment, that's all. For example: Where in the body do we feel stuck and/or powerless? What happens if we simply attend to it, appreciate it, breathe with it, let it fully feel, allow it to be unconditionally OK in that feeling? In denying ignorance (tamas), we cling to clarity (sattva), and get (as if) stuck inside the gunas, rather than remembering they are all merely ideas *in us* :-) Judy: I don't know what it's like to be realized; I do know what it's like to be ignorant, in other words. Rory: Being realized isn't like anything snip Judy: Yes, it is. It's like being realized. It's *not* like being in ignorance. Rory: How do you know this, if you don't know what being realized is? In my experience/understanding anyhow, it is *precisely* like being in ignorance -- with the slight but crucial adjustment that one has just for this moment stopped unfavorably (or favorably for that matter) comparing this moment to some other more (or less) ideal one. One has stepped off the merry-go-round of infinite progress (or regress). That's all, that's it. Simple :-) -- other than (say, in that moment) Judy writing she doesn't know what it's like to be realized, but knows what it's like to be ignorant. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip So long as we do *not* appreciate *this* moment as a god-given gift we have not yet fully unwrapped and understood -- that long do we find it to be shrouded in darkness, ignorance, fear, suffering, and so on: the darkness and ignorance of our own lack of attention and unconditional appreciation. Yes, that's being overshadowed. When we simply be with it, breathe with it, allow ourselves to feel it in the body non-judgmentally (this too is good -- or ...God or ...bliss --), relaxing into it while appreciating it, then it lightens up. Yes, that's what being overshadowed makes it impossible to do. snip Judy: I don't know what it's like to be realized; I do know what it's like to be ignorant, in other words. Rory: Being realized isn't like anything snip Judy: Yes, it is. It's like being realized. It's *not* like being in ignorance. Rory: How do you know this, if you don't know what being realized is? In my experience/understanding anyhow, it is *precisely* like being in ignorance -- with the slight but crucial adjustment Right. Lacking that slight but crucial adjustment is what being in ignorance is like. Not like being realized, in other words. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip So long as we do *not* appreciate *this* moment as a god-given gift we have not yet fully unwrapped and understood -- that long do we find it to be shrouded in darkness, ignorance, fear, suffering, and so on: the darkness and ignorance of our own lack of attention and unconditional appreciation. Yes, that's being overshadowed. When we simply be with it, breathe with it, allow ourselves to feel it in the body non-judgmentally (this too is good -- or ...God or ...bliss --), relaxing into it while appreciating it, then it lightens up. Yes, that's what being overshadowed makes it impossible to do. How do you know this is impossible, Judy, if you haven't tried it? Over the past 20 years I have never yet seen *anyone* -- enlightened or not, meditator or not -- who didn't experience this lightening-up from breathing and attending nonjudgmentally to one's bodily ignorance. But then, I have never seen anyone before who actually pre-decided attending to ignorance was impossible *because* s/he was in ignorance; that's a new one on me. You're quite right; I bow to your invincible ignorance! :-) snip Judy: I don't know what it's like to be realized; I do know what it's like to be ignorant, in other words. Rory: Being realized isn't like anything snip Judy: Yes, it is. It's like being realized. It's *not* like being in ignorance. Rory: How do you know this, if you don't know what being realized is? In my experience/understanding anyhow, it is *precisely* like being in ignorance -- with the slight but crucial adjustment snip Right. Lacking that slight but crucial adjustment is what being in ignorance is like. Not like being realized, in other words. Who is going to make or allow that slight but crucial adjustment if not you? When (if ever) do you plan to make or allow it? Is there a Judy in the near or distant future who has made it or allowed it? If so, what does she feel like? If Enlightenment is outside of time and space, does that mean it is equally available now as it is twenty lifetimes from now? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip So long as we do *not* appreciate *this* moment as a god-given gift we have not yet fully unwrapped and understood -- that long do we find it to be shrouded in darkness, ignorance, fear, suffering, and so on: the darkness and ignorance of our own lack of attention and unconditional appreciation. Yes, that's being overshadowed. When we simply be with it, breathe with it, allow ourselves to feel it in the body non-judgmentally (this too is good -- or ...God or ...bliss --), relaxing into it while appreciating it, then it lightens up. Yes, that's what being overshadowed makes it impossible to do. How do you know this is impossible, Judy, if you haven't tried it? Oh, for heaven's sake, of course I've tried it. snip Judy: Yes, it is. It's like being realized. It's *not* like being in ignorance. Rory: How do you know this, if you don't know what being realized is? In my experience/understanding anyhow, it is *precisely* like being in ignorance -- with the slight but crucial adjustment snip Right. Lacking that slight but crucial adjustment is what being in ignorance is like. Not like being realized, in other words. Who is going to make or allow that slight but crucial adjustment if not you? What you are you talking about? And what on earth leads you to think that it's something you *make*? When (if ever) do you plan to make or allow it? I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Is there a Judy in the near or distant future who has made it or allowed it? If so, what does she feel like? If Enlightenment is outside of time and space, does that mean it is equally available now as it is twenty lifetimes from now? This is gobbledygook, sorry. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
Rory: How do you know this is impossible, Judy, if you haven't tried it? Judy: Oh, for heaven's sake, of course I've tried it. Rory: Yes? With whom? I hope you had company. Most people find it far easier and more effective the first few times if they are accompanied by a guide, rebirther or the like: one who has traversed and integrated the ignorance themselves. The ignorance can indeed be pretty damned scary to go into alone at first. Who is going to make or allow that slight but crucial adjustment if not you? Judy: What you are you talking about? Rory: Just you. Judy: And what on earth leads you to think that it's something you *make*? Rory: If not you, then who? When (if ever) do you plan to make or allow it? Judy: I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Rory: How will you know when it is ready to happen? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars in Aid for...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And, by the way, all those wonderful works that you cite above? Your local Catholic Church has been doing that in your very own neighbourhood for the past several hundred years...and without the hugging and the fanfare... The catholic church runs a lot of private for-profit schools (I have 14 yrs experience) and some for-profit hospitals. Many orders of nuns and a few, very few, priestly orders are involved in charitable works. In the US, the parishes sometimes raise funds for catholic operations in the 3rd world which are partly charitable, mainly to expand operations and convert - when I was child you sometimes had to bring a quarter to school to help convert the pagan babies. Even the poorest of nations are net givers of money to the Vatican. Not to knock the Church on charity, as individual catholics tend to be charitable and the Church does encourages that behavior more so than many religions. But the parishes themselves are not known as the place to go if you're in need. No fanfare in Catholicism?? What a joke, more fanfare than a barrel of crowned rajs. No hugging?? Have you been to Mass recently? (though you may go to the Mel Gibsom sect which still does Mass in latin and instead of the hug prior to communion does a flogging.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars in Aid for...
On 9/26/05 9:40 AM, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And, by the way, all those wonderful works that you cite above? Your local Catholic Church has been doing that in your very own neighbourhood for the past several hundred years...and without the hugging and the fanfare... The catholic church runs a lot of private for-profit schools (I have 14 yrs experience) and some for-profit hospitals. Many orders of nuns and a few, very few, priestly orders are involved in charitable works. In the US, the parishes sometimes raise funds for catholic operations in the 3rd world which are partly charitable, mainly to expand operations and convert - when I was child you sometimes had to bring a quarter to school to help convert the pagan babies. Even the poorest of nations are net givers of money to the Vatican. Not to knock the Church on charity, as individual catholics tend to be charitable and the Church does encourages that behavior more so than many religions. But the parishes themselves are not known as the place to go if you're in need. No fanfare in Catholicism?? What a joke, more fanfare than a barrel of crowned rajs. No hugging?? Have you been to Mass recently? (though you may go to the Mel Gibsom sect which still does Mass in latin and instead of the hug prior to communion does a flogging.) My grandfather, despite being a protestant, was the founder of a Catholic hospital and for a period of my career I was involved with a large Catholic hospital here in New England. The nuns would begin the day by gathering in the hospital chapel and praying for the safety and healing of all those in the hospital, city and region. I'd seen them on numerous occasions head out on the coldest nights of the year and bring street people into the hospital for treatment--actually what they were saving them from was freezing to death or certain frostbite. They would often give free medical care, including surgery and other live-saving interventions. There was never such a thing as someone too poor to receive treatment and often we received the poorest of the poor. These nuns were like tireless angels. Despite all the bad press the Catholic church has received in recent years, they still carry on an important charity mission worldwide. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars in Aid for...
on 9/25/05 11:34 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 9/25/05 12:55 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doesn't Amma's org have financial statements? Probably does. I don't know anything about them. ...then I don't think it appropriate for you to have said: ...on the whole, Amma's group has a very good track record in terms of administering and using funds ethically and efficiently. In other words, accomplishing a lot with funds raised. She is becoming very well known and respected for this in India. Familiarize yourself with her finances, then come back to us and make that claim... It's not necessary for me to go over her books in order to see that a lot gets accomplished. OTOH, where is the evidence of what the TMO has accomplished? Much less, as far as I can see, with a much larger influx of money. Also, I've seen fairly close up how Amma operates. Very frugal and self sacrificing. Nobody, including she, is living like a king. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars in Aid for...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And, by the way, all those wonderful works that you cite above? Your local Catholic Church has been doing that in your very own neighbourhood for the past several hundred years...and without the hugging and the fanfare... The catholic church runs a lot of private for-profit schools (I have 14 yrs experience) and some for-profit hospitals. Many orders of nuns and a few, very few, priestly orders are involved in charitable works. In the US, the parishes sometimes raise funds for catholic operations in the 3rd world which are partly charitable, mainly to expand operations and convert - when I was child you sometimes had to bring a quarter to school to help convert the pagan babies. Even the poorest of nations are net givers of money to the Vatican. Not to knock the Church on charity, as individual catholics tend to be charitable and the Church does encourages that behavior more so than many religions. But the parishes themselves are not known as the place to go if you're in need. No fanfare in Catholicism?? What a joke, more fanfare than a barrel of crowned rajs. No hugging?? Have you been to Mass recently? (though you may go to the Mel Gibsom sect which still does Mass in latin and instead of the hug prior to communion does a flogging.) Really? The flogging sounds like a lot more fun. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars in Aid for...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/26/05 9:40 AM, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And, by the way, all those wonderful works that you cite above? Your local Catholic Church has been doing that in your very own neighbourhood for the past several hundred years...and without the hugging and the fanfare... The catholic church runs a lot of private for-profit schools (I have 14 yrs experience) and some for-profit hospitals. Many orders of nuns and a few, very few, priestly orders are involved in charitable works. In the US, the parishes sometimes raise funds for catholic operations in the 3rd world which are partly charitable, mainly to expand operations and convert - when I was child you sometimes had to bring a quarter to school to help convert the pagan babies. Even the poorest of nations are net givers of money to the Vatican. Not to knock the Church on charity, as individual catholics tend to be charitable and the Church does encourages that behavior more so than many religions. But the parishes themselves are not known as the place to go if you're in need. No fanfare in Catholicism?? What a joke, more fanfare than a barrel of crowned rajs. No hugging?? Have you been to Mass recently? (though you may go to the Mel Gibsom sect which still does Mass in latin and instead of the hug prior to communion does a flogging.) My grandfather, despite being a protestant, was the founder of a Catholic hospital and for a period of my career I was involved with a large Catholic hospital here in New England. The nuns would begin the day by gathering in the hospital chapel and praying for the safety and healing of all those in the hospital, city and region. I'd seen them on numerous occasions head out on the coldest nights of the year and bring street people into the hospital for treatment--actually what they were saving them from was freezing to death or certain frostbite. They would often give free medical care, including surgery and other live-saving interventions. There was never such a thing as someone too poor to receive treatment and often we received the poorest of the poor. These nuns were like tireless angels. Despite all the bad press the Catholic church has received in recent years, they still carry on an important charity mission worldwide. Maybe Amma should give her million directly to the Catholic Church... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars in Aid for...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: These nuns were like tireless angels. Despite all the bad press the Catholic church has received in recent years, they still carry on an important charity mission worldwide. Maybe Amma should give her million directly to the Catholic Church... Not to imply I take the above comment seriously, but if someone wanted to support good works being done by an order of nuns, of which there are many, they should give money directly to that order. Each order is financially independent, and like the TMO, money flows towards the top, not the other way around. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars in Aid for...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: These nuns were like tireless angels. Despite all the bad press the Catholic church has received in recent years, they still carry on an important charity mission worldwide. Maybe Amma should give her million directly to the Catholic Church... Not to imply I take the above comment seriously, I wasn't joking, actually... but if someone wanted to support good works being done by an order of nuns, of which there are many, they should give money directly to that order. Each order is financially independent, and like the TMO, money flows towards the top, not the other way around. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars in Aid for...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 9/25/05 11:34 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 9/25/05 12:55 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doesn't Amma's org have financial statements? Probably does. I don't know anything about them. ...then I don't think it appropriate for you to have said: ...on the whole, Amma's group has a very good track record in terms of administering and using funds ethically and efficiently. In other words, accomplishing a lot with funds raised. She is becoming very well known and respected for this in India. Familiarize yourself with her finances, then come back to us and make that claim... It's not necessary for me to go over her books in order to see that a lot gets accomplished. OTOH, where is the evidence of what the TMO has accomplished? Much less, as far as I can see, with a much larger influx of money. Also, I've seen fairly close up how Amma operates. Very frugal and self sacrificing. Nobody, including she, is living like a king. Who in the TMO is REALLY living like a king? Have you ever been in Buckingham Palace or even the TMO's old HQ in the UK, Mentmore Towers? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
TorquoiseB writes: I think I picked it up in New York. It always seemed to capture the Zen of certain paradoxes for me, like the one you cite above. The coex- istence of seeming opposites, the irresolvability of the paradox, and all that. It's like how a Zen master from the Bronx should talk: Does a hot dog have Buddha nature? Go figure. Tom T: THe ability to hold that full paradox of on this hand and then on that hand is the awakening. That is the paradox of Brahman. No problemo. When the fullness of both hands is comprehended they merge into the bliss of being awake. That is the full range of the way it is. It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same time. Tom Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TorquoiseB writes: I think I picked it up in New York. It always seemed to capture the Zen of certain paradoxes for me, like the one you cite above. The coex- istence of seeming opposites, the irresolvability of the paradox, and all that. It's like how a Zen master from the Bronx should talk: Does a hot dog have Buddha nature? Go figure. Tom T: THe ability to hold that full paradox of on this hand and then on that hand is the awakening. That is the paradox of Brahman. No problemo. When the fullness of both hands is comprehended they merge into the bliss of being awake. That is the full range of the way it is. It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same time. Tom Or none of the above... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
Tom T writes: It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same time. Tom Judy writes: Or none of the above... Tom T: Which part of all possibilities isn't clear? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom T writes: It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same time. Tom Judy writes: Or none of the above... Tom T: Which part of all possibilities isn't clear? Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
Tom T writes: It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same time. Tom Judy writes: Or none of the above... Tom T: Which part of all possibilities isn't clear? Judy: Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna. TomT: OK explain please. What has that to do with all possibilities. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom T writes: It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same time. Tom Judy writes: Or none of the above... Tom T: Which part of all possibilities isn't clear? Judy: Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna. TomT: OK explain please. What has that to do with all possibilities. Nagarjuna's Four Negations: Brahman is not the relative. Brahman is not the Absolute. Brahman is not both the relative and the Absolute. Brahman is not neither the relative nor the Absolute. Nagarjuna was a medieval Buddhist Advaitin and logician. He made four logical arguments that ended with the four conclusions above. The bottom line being that there is nothing that can be said about Brahman, positive or negative, of which the opposite is not also the case, because Brahman is One without a second. All possibilities is one way of putting it, but it doesn't quite convey how radical the Advaita paradox is. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--How about Brahman is the Absolute AS the relative? - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom T writes: It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same time. Tom Judy writes: Or none of the above... Tom T: Which part of all possibilities isn't clear? Judy: Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna. TomT: OK explain please. What has that to do with all possibilities. Nagarjuna's Four Negations: Brahman is not the relative. Brahman is not the Absolute. Brahman is not both the relative and the Absolute. Brahman is not neither the relative nor the Absolute. Nagarjuna was a medieval Buddhist Advaitin and logician. He made four logical arguments that ended with the four conclusions above. The bottom line being that there is nothing that can be said about Brahman, positive or negative, of which the opposite is not also the case, because Brahman is One without a second. All possibilities is one way of putting it, but it doesn't quite convey how radical the Advaita paradox is. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
Judy responds: The bottom line being that there is nothing that can be said about Brahman, positive or negative, of which the opposite is not also the case, because Brahman is One without a second. All possibilities is one way of putting it, but it doesn't quite convey how radical the Advaita paradox is. Tom T writes: No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be able to hold all that in the awake mind. That is why it is the ultimate paradox. That is why it is written that way. It is not possible to actually write what it really is or isn't but it is possible to experience it. The koan that does the job. You will have every experience you need to have till you finally wake up a quote from a friend. Tom Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, qntmpkt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --How about Brahman is the Absolute AS the relative? You'd have to ask Nagarjuna. ;-) I suspect it would come under ...not both the relative and the Absolute, though. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom T writes: It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same time. Tom Judy writes: Or none of the above... Tom T: Which part of all possibilities isn't clear? Judy: Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna. TomT: OK explain please. What has that to do with all possibilities. Nagarjuna's Four Negations: Brahman is not the relative. Brahman is not the Absolute. Brahman is not both the relative and the Absolute. Brahman is not neither the relative nor the Absolute. Nagarjuna was a medieval Buddhist Advaitin and logician. He made four logical arguments that ended with the four conclusions above. The bottom line being that there is nothing that can be said about Brahman, positive or negative, of which the opposite is not also the case, because Brahman is One without a second. All possibilities is one way of putting it, but it doesn't quite convey how radical the Advaita paradox is. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy responds: The bottom line being that there is nothing that can be said about Brahman, positive or negative, of which the opposite is not also the case, because Brahman is One without a second. All possibilities is one way of putting it, but it doesn't quite convey how radical the Advaita paradox is. Tom T writes: No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be able to hold all that in the awake mind. That is why it is the ultimate paradox. That is why it is written that way. It is not possible to actually write what it really is or isn't but it is possible to experience it. That was pretty much Nagarjuna's point, yes. The koan that does the job. You will have every experience you need to have till you finally wake up a quote from a friend. Tom Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy responds: The bottom line being that there is nothing that can be said about Brahman, positive or negative, of which the opposite is not also the case, because Brahman is One without a second. All possibilities is one way of putting it, but it doesn't quite convey how radical the Advaita paradox is. Tom T writes: No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be able to hold all that in the awake mind. Then it must be possible to be able to hold all that in the unawake mind too. All Possibilities. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy responds: The bottom line being that there is nothing that can be said about Brahman, positive or negative, of which the opposite is not also the case, because Brahman is One without a second. All possibilities is one way of putting it, but it doesn't quite convey how radical the Advaita paradox is. Tom T writes: No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be able to hold all that in the awake mind. Then it must be possible to be able to hold all that in the unawake mind too. All Possibilities. Right; no real difference between ignorance and enlightenment, or between being asleep and being awake -- though oddly enough, as we have seen, only the experientially awake appear generally able to appreciate this to any visceral extent, while the self- diagnosed unawake or not yet awake often would appear rather strenuously engaged in denying their (seemingly) self- evident awake presence in favor of some not-present (not-here-now) idealized criteria. This self-denial would thus appear always to be itself a self- referent mistake of the intellect: attributing some imaginary (not- here-now) properties (or shoulds) to what is without properties, or only truly simply and nakedly what is in this moment, here-now, and then bewailing the absence of these same imaginary properties (or the presence of other less-desired imaginary properties) here- now, and thus invoking an overlay of space-time-desire etc. And yet somehow the intellect is eventually able to see through this same not-here-now overlay and abandon it into what always is, has always been, and always will be, the (non)radiant emptifulness of (not)self itself... How can that which is and has always been and will always be self- sufficient, self-evident and self-effulgent, ever hide itself from itself? My guess is that we get attached to those very descriptors (or ones like them) as ideas or ideals and use them to *obscure* the reality they are intended to *describe* (which can of course appear quite horrible, gnarly, and so on as well as stunningly beautiful, etc.), and so the projection is underway, and don't we all love a good movie! Odd indeed, but as you say, All Possibilities...! :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip [Akasha108 wrote:] Tom T writes: No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be able to hold all that in the awake mind. Then it must be possible to be able to hold all that in the unawake mind too. All Possibilities. Right; no real difference between ignorance and enlightenment, or between being asleep and being awake -- though oddly enough, as we have seen, only the experientially awake appear generally able to appreciate this to any visceral extent, while the self- diagnosed unawake or not yet awake often would appear rather strenuously engaged in denying their (seemingly) self- evident awake presence in favor of some not-present (not-here- now) idealized criteria. Or not. My only criterion, for instance, is not to be overshadowed. snip How can that which is and has always been and will always be self- sufficient, self-evident and self-effulgent, ever hide itself from itself? My guess is that we get attached to those very descriptors (or ones like them) as ideas or ideals and use them to *obscure* the reality they are intended to *describe* (which can of course appear quite horrible, gnarly, and so on as well as stunningly beautiful, etc.), and so the projection is underway, and don't we all love a good movie! Take a minute for a little thought experiment, Rory. Let's say we don't get attached. Let's say we've never *been* attached. Let's say human beans have always been realized. How far back would that apply, do you think, given that human beans--Homo sapiens--didn't emerge full- blown from the head of Zeus but evolved gradually from earlier humanoid species? And then I've got another question or two. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tom T writes: No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be able to hold all that in the awake mind. Then it must be possible to be able to hold all that in the unawake mind too. All Possibilities. Right; no real difference between ignorance and enlightenment, or between being asleep and being awake then why bring it up? -- though oddly enough, as we have seen, We have seen? I missed that paper, in what journal was that study published? only the experientially awake appear generally able to appreciate this to any visceral extent, How many times do I have to tell you??!! Its an Understanding, not an Experience!! :) while the self- diagnosed unawake or not yet awake often would appear appear to whom? rather strenuously engaged in denying their (seemingly) self- evident straining is a bummer awake presence in favor of some not-present (not-here-now) idealized criteria. Or maybe lots of other alternatives. (Tom doesn't like your black and white views, it appears.) This self-denial would thus appear appear to whom? appearance as in apparition? always to be itself a self- referent mistake of the intellect: God made faulty machinery? Has he issued a recall? attributing some imaginary (not- here-now) properties What else is here other than the here and now? Are you imagining things again? :) (or shoulds) and who is your imaginary attributor? to what is without properties guess they won't hurt when the real estate / properties bubble burts or only truly simply and nakedly what is in this moment, here-now, what else is there? Only one drawn to or absorbed to the other will be aware of it. and then bewailing the absence of these same imaginary properties (or the presence of other less-desired imaginary properties) here- now, and thus invoking an overlay of space-time-desire etc. Again, only one who imagines such can be aware of such, absorbed into such. And yet somehow the intellect is eventually able to see through this same not-here-now overlay and abandon it I thought the intellect was broken. Did it get fixed? into what always is, has always been, and always will be, the (non)radiant emptifulness of (not)self itself... Ah, you took that Simuladvaita class. Was it good? How can that which is and has always been and will always be self- sufficient, self-evident and self-effulgent, ever hide itself from itself? I don't know. The question never arises where duality is absent. But, have patience, in time such duality disolves and such silly thoughts cease to arise. My guess is that we get attached to those very descriptors (or ones like them) as ideas or ideals What do you mean we, kimosabe? and use them to *obscure* the reality Like etching glass? Etched glass can be gorgeous, no? they are intended to *describe* Excuse my saying, but you seem obsessed with describing. (which can of course appear quite horrible, gnarly, and so on as well as stunningly beautiful, etc.), and so the projection is underway, and don't we all love a good movie! I rather look directly into the projector from 3 away. Odd indeed, but as you say, All Possibilities...! :-) Yes, all posibilities. So All, that some may not fit into your frameworks, which by definition, are limited. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom T writes: It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same time. Tom Judy writes: Or none of the above... Tom T: Which part of all possibilities isn't clear? Huh? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom T writes: It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same time. Tom Judy writes: Or none of the above... Tom T: Which part of all possibilities isn't clear? Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna. Who? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom T writes: It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same time. Tom Judy writes: Or none of the above... Tom T: Which part of all possibilities isn't clear? Judy: Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna. TomT: OK explain please. What has that to do with all possibilities. Darn, you beat me to the what question. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip [Akasha108 wrote:] Tom T writes: No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be able to hold all that in the awake mind. Then it must be possible to be able to hold all that in the unawake mind too. All Possibilities. Right; no real difference between ignorance and enlightenment, or between being asleep and being awake -- though oddly enough, as we have seen, only the experientially awake appear generally able to appreciate this to any visceral extent, while the self- diagnosed unawake or not yet awake often would appear rather strenuously engaged in denying their (seemingly) self- evident awake presence in favor of some not-present (not-here- now) idealized criteria. Or not. My only criterion, for instance, is not to be overshadowed. snip How can that which is and has always been and will always be self- sufficient, self-evident and self-effulgent, ever hide itself from itself? My guess is that we get attached to those very descriptors (or ones like them) as ideas or ideals and use them to *obscure* the reality they are intended to *describe* (which can of course appear quite horrible, gnarly, and so on as well as stunningly beautiful, etc.), and so the projection is underway, and don't we all love a good movie! Take a minute for a little thought experiment, Rory. Let's say we don't get attached. Let's say we've never *been* attached. Let's say human beans have always been realized. How far back would that apply, do you think, given that human beans--Homo sapiens--didn't emerge full- blown from the head of Zeus but evolved gradually from earlier humanoid species? Judy: Don't you believe in creative design? And then I've got another question or two. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Let's say we don't get attached. Let's say we've never *been* attached. Let's say human beans have always been realized. How far back would that apply, do you think, given that human beans--Homo sapiens--didn't emerge full- blown from the head of Zeus but evolved gradually from earlier humanoid species? Judy: Don't you believe in creative design? Huh? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
Rory wrote: Right; no real difference between ignorance and enlightenment, or between being asleep and being awake -- though oddly enough, as we have seen, only the experientially awake appear generally able to appreciate this to any visceral extent, while the self- diagnosed unawake or not yet awake often would appear rather strenuously engaged in denying their (seemingly) self- evident awake presence in favor of some not-present (not-here- now) idealized criteria. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or not. My only criterion, for instance, is not to be overshadowed. Judy, if that is a criterion that is not evidently present here-now, then I would respectfully suggest it is idealized, conceptual, and *obscuring* the perfect grace of the simple reality which is your birthright from yourself to yourself in this moment. In other words, I can pretty much guarantee you that as long as you are looking to be not overshadowed, that desire *itself* is going to overshadow you. You are bigger than the goal you are imagining; you can't shoehorn yourself with integrity into something that small. You can't deny any of it; you contain *all of it* :-) snip How can that which is and has always been and will always be self- sufficient, self-evident and self-effulgent, ever hide itself from itself? My guess is that we get attached to those very descriptors (or ones like them) as ideas or ideals and use them to *obscure* the reality they are intended to *describe* (which can of course appear quite horrible, gnarly, and so on as well as stunningly beautiful, etc.), and so the projection is underway, and don't we all love a good movie! Judy wrote: Take a minute for a little thought experiment, Rory. Let's say we don't get attached. Let's say we've never *been* attached. Let's say human beans have always been realized. How far back would that apply, do you think, given that human beans--Homo sapiens--didn't emerge full- blown from the head of Zeus but evolved gradually from earlier humanoid species? Such is not precisely my understanding or experience, so far as self- aware consciousness goes. That evidently exists a priori. Yes, we apparently incarnate or have incarnated earlier forms of primate (as well as countless other forms, of course), but as far as I can see, that self-realization or self-awareness has always been present, before dropping into those forms, while in those forms, and after leaving those forms. And then I've got another question or two. As always, I am at your service, O She-who-is-wide-awake-even-in- sleep :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] My only criterion, for instance, is not to be overshadowed. Thinking about that thought, paraphrasing, I just don't want to be oveshadowed gets funnier and funnier the more it is contemplated and considered. Its like a perfect jeweled Russian egg, that cracks perfectly in four places to reveal itself. Though I suspect this may be a huh moment for some. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Let's say we don't get attached. Let's say we've never *been* attached. Let's say human beans have always been realized. How far back would that apply, do you think, given that human beans--Homo sapiens--didn't emerge full- blown from the head of Zeus but evolved gradually from earlier humanoid species? Judy: Don't you believe in creative design? Huh? Creationism...you know, Adam, Eve, the Snake, the whole damn thing... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
Tom T writes: No matter how radical that all sounds it is possible to be able to hold all that in the awake mind. akasha_108 wrote: Then it must be possible to be able to hold all that in the unawake mind too. All Possibilities. Rory wrote: Right; no real difference between ignorance and enlightenment, or between being asleep and being awake snip Akasha108 wrote: then why bring it up? You tell me; you're the one who brought it up; I was just agreeing with you :-) Rory wrote: -- though oddly enough, as we have seen, Akasha108 wrote: We have seen? I missed that paper, in what journal was that study published? Rory: The Journal of Irreproducible Results, vol. 1008, no. 108 IIRC. No, seriously -- we have seen here on FFL, the only journal really worth reading at this moment IMNSHO :-) Rory wrote: only the experientially awake appear generally able to appreciate this to any visceral extent, Akasha108 wrote: How many times do I have to tell you??!! Its an Understanding, not an Experience!! :) Rory writes: *lol* Yes; visceral appreciation is part of the full-bodied flavor of Understanding; it is not an experience, something enshrined in space and time as a memory or a desire, but we might certainly say that Understanding includes Experience, the two married together as ever-present apperception a la Jean Kline :-) Rory: while the self- diagnosed unawake or not yet awake often would appear Akasha108: appear to whom? Rory: Yes, appear to whom? Who is (t)here? Who is questioning, and who is answering? Who is writing, and who is reading? How many of Us are there, anyhow? rather strenuously engaged in denying their (seemingly) self- evident Akasha: straining is a bummer Rory: leads (or can lead) to hemorrhoids, I am told awake presence in favor of some not-present (not-here-now) idealized criteria. Akasha: Or maybe lots of other alternatives. (Tom doesn't like your black and white views, it appears.) No, Tom generally likes mine, because we speak the truth; we just don't like anyone else's, because if they pretend they are someone else, they are lying :-) This self-denial would thus appear Akasha: appear to whom? Rory: You tell me, Mr. A; appear to whom? Akasha: appearance as in apparition? Rory: appear as in appear? :-) always to be itself a self- referent mistake of the intellect: Akasha: God made faulty machinery? Has he issued a recall? Rory: *lol* Who says it was faulty? And who is he? attributing some imaginary (not- here-now) properties Akasha: What else is here other than the here and now? Are you imagining things again? :) Rory: Yes! :-) :-) (or shoulds) Akasha: and who is your imaginary attributor? Rory: Yes, Who? It would appear there is only one of us :-) to what is without properties Akasha: guess they won't hurt when the real estate / properties bubble burts Rory: There you go with those hemorrhoids again :-) or only truly simply and nakedly what is in this moment, here- now, Akasha: what else is there? Only one drawn to or absorbed to the other will be aware of it. Rory: What other? You are confusing me :-) and then bewailing the absence of these same imaginary properties (or the presence of other less-desired imaginary properties) here- now, and thus invoking an overlay of space-time-desire etc. Akasha: Again, only one who imagines such can be aware of such, absorbed into such. Rory: Yes, of course. Only one. And yet somehow the intellect is eventually able to see through this same not-here-now overlay and abandon it Akasha: I thought the intellect was broken. Did it get fixed? Rory: Who said it was broken? Presumably that's the same one who who could conceive of its being fixed...? :-) into what always is, has always been, and always will be, the (non)radiant emptifulness of (not)self itself... Akasha: Ah, you took that Simuladvaita class. Was it good? Rory: It takes one to know one; you tell me; is it good? :-) How can that which is and has always been and will always be self- sufficient, self-evident and self-effulgent, ever hide itself from itself? Akasha: I don't know. The question never arises where duality is absent. Rory: Never? But what about All Possibilities? That was our whole point, wasn't it? :-) Akasha: But, have patience, in time such duality disolves and such silly thoughts cease to arise. Rory: Are we sure? How do we know this is true if we are not experiencing it in this moment? My guess is that we get attached to those very descriptors (or ones like them) as ideas or ideals Akasha: What do you mean we, kimosabe? Rory: There is only we, tonto :-) and use them to *obscure* the reality Akasha: Like etching glass? Etched glass can be gorgeous, no? Rory: Surely. they are intended to *describe* Akasha: Excuse
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] My only criterion, for instance, is not to be overshadowed. Thinking about that thought, paraphrasing, I just don't want to be oveshadowed gets funnier and funnier the more it is contemplated and considered. Its like a perfect jeweled Russian egg, that cracks perfectly in four places to reveal itself. Hiranyagarbha omelette; 3 gunas and more :-) Though I suspect this may be a huh moment for some. Uh huh :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom T writes: It is both, it is either and it is neither all at the same time. Tom Judy writes: Or none of the above... Tom T: Which part of all possibilities isn't clear? Um, I was invoking Nagarjuna. As if he knew better than anyone else? :-) Sorry, just always amused by the authority thang. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
