[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: I'm still not clear as to whether you are judging how well the person is following his/her own internal ethics, or whether the person is following *your* own internal ethics. I understand. Life's a bitch sometimes, isn't it? :-) Intuition is one of those Been there, done that, got the T-shirt kinda things. You can't *explain* the T-shirt to someone else, and they can't wear your T-shirt. They've got to find their own, and the only way to do that is to go there and do that. If you wear the T-shirt and most (nigh unto 95%) of the decisions you make while wearing it seem to work out well -- both for you and for those you interact with -- then you come to trust it. You certainly trust it more than following guidelines and 'standards' that provide at best a 50% ROI. OF course, perhaps MMY is relying on his own trustworthy judgement that just doesn't seem that trustworthy to others... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: I'm still not clear as to whether you are judging how well the person is following his/her own internal ethics, or whether the person is following *your* own internal ethics. I understand. Life's a bitch sometimes, isn't it? :-) Intuition is one of those Been there, done that, got the T-shirt kinda things. You can't *explain* the T-shirt to someone else, and they can't wear your T-shirt. They've got to find their own, and the only way to do that is to go there and do that. If you wear the T-shirt and most (nigh unto 95%) of the decisions you make while wearing it seem to work out well -- both for you and for those you interact with -- then you come to trust it. You certainly trust it more than following guidelines and 'standards' that provide at best a 50% ROI. OF course, perhaps MMY is relying on his own trustworthy judgement that just doesn't seem that trustworthy to others... Do you honestly believe that Maharishi would say that 90 to 95% of the predictions he has made and pronouncements he has made and plans he has announced based on his trustworthy judgment have come to pass? *That* was the criterion in my post that I feel is most important. It's not the feeling of certainty about one's intuitions that is important (although that can be an indicator of something to pay attention to). It's *how many* of these intuitions turn out to be *correct* over time. If *most* of them turn out to be correct, one's intuition can pretty safely be trusted. If only 50% of them turn out to be correct, then you could achieve the same result by flipping a coin. And if very, very, very *few* of one's intuitive announcements, plans, and pronouncements ever turn out to be correct (as almost anyone sane has to admit is the case with Maharishi), then I suggest he could do *better* by flipping a coin than he does by relying on his trustworthy judgment. :-) The track record is just not there for anyone to trust his intuition or judgment. I would suggest that it doesn't seem to work very well. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: I'm still not clear as to whether you are judging how well the person is following his/her own internal ethics, or whether the person is following *your* own internal ethics. I understand. Life's a bitch sometimes, isn't it? :-) Intuition is one of those Been there, done that, got the T-shirt kinda things. You can't *explain* the T-shirt to someone else, and they can't wear your T-shirt. They've got to find their own, and the only way to do that is to go there and do that. If you wear the T-shirt and most (nigh unto 95%) of the decisions you make while wearing it seem to work out well -- both for you and for those you interact with -- then you come to trust it. You certainly trust it more than following guidelines and 'standards' that provide at best a 50% ROI. OF course, perhaps MMY is relying on his own trustworthy judgement that just doesn't seem that trustworthy to others... Do you honestly believe that Maharishi would say that 90 to 95% of the predictions he has made and pronouncements he has made and plans he has announced based on his trustworthy judgment have come to pass? *That* was the criterion in my post that I feel is most important. It's not the feeling of certainty about one's intuitions that is important (although that can be an indicator of something to pay attention to). It's *how many* of these intuitions turn out to be *correct* over time. If *most* of them turn out to be correct, one's intuition can pretty safely be trusted. If only 50% of them turn out to be correct, then you could achieve the same result by flipping a coin. And if very, very, very *few* of one's intuitive announcements, plans, and pronouncements ever turn out to be correct (as almost anyone sane has to admit is the case with Maharishi), then I suggest he could do *better* by flipping a coin than he does by relying on his trustworthy judgment. :-) The track record is just not there for anyone to trust his intuition or judgment. I would suggest that it doesn't seem to work very well. If I could predict the multi- million dollar lottery numbers with 50% accuracy I would be quite wealthy. If I could predict them with 5% accuracy I would be quite wealthy. If I could predict them with 0.005% accuracy I would still be quite wealthy. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
On Feb 6, 2006, at 7:36 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:If only 50% of them turn out to be correct, then you could achieve the same result by flipping a coin. And if very, very, very *few* of one's intuitive announcements, plans, and pronouncements ever turn out to be correct (as almost anyone sane has to admit is the case with Maharishi), then I suggest he could do *better* by flipping a coin than he does by relying on his "trustworthy judgment." :-) The "track record" is just not there for anyone to trust his intuition or judgment. I would suggest that it doesn't seem to work very well. gasp But he's a rishino a Maha-rishi...he sees all!Methinks the rishi needs new glasses or a better Ouija board.Heck, the guy's worshipping icicles on his windowsill, make that laser surgery. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: I'm still not clear as to whether you are judging how well the person is following his/her own internal ethics, or whether the person is following *your* own internal ethics. I understand. Life's a bitch sometimes, isn't it? :-) Intuition is one of those Been there, done that, got the T-shirt kinda things. You can't *explain* the T-shirt to someone else, and they can't wear your T-shirt. They've got to find their own, and the only way to do that is to go there and do that. If you wear the T-shirt and most (nigh unto 95%) of the decisions you make while wearing it seem to work out well -- both for you and for those you interact with -- then you come to trust it. You certainly trust it more than following guidelines and 'standards' that provide at best a 50% ROI. I'm not asking on what basis you trust your own internal sense of ethics. I'm asking on what basis you judge somebody else's actions: (a) by how well they're following their own internal sense of ethics, or (b) by how well their own internal ethics conforms to *your* internal sense of ethics. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: I'm still not clear as to whether you are judging how well the person is following his/her own internal ethics, or whether the person is following *your* own internal ethics. I understand. Life's a bitch sometimes, isn't it? :-) Intuition is one of those Been there, done that, got the T-shirt kinda things. You can't *explain* the T-shirt to someone else, and they can't wear your T-shirt. They've got to find their own, and the only way to do that is to go there and do that. If you wear the T-shirt and most (nigh unto 95%) of the decisions you make while wearing it seem to work out well -- both for you and for those you interact with -- then you come to trust it. You certainly trust it more than following guidelines and 'standards' that provide at best a 50% ROI. I'm not asking on what basis you trust your own internal sense of ethics. I'm asking on what basis you judge somebody else's actions: (a) by how well they're following their own internal sense of ethics, or (b) by how well their own internal ethics conforms to *your* internal sense of ethics. The fact that you are asking -- and KEEP asking, even when I've replied over and over with the best answer I can give you -- indicates that you have very little personal experience with intuition and how it works. I've been trying to tell you that I *can't* explain how it works, and you keep ignoring me and asking over again, as if I were just being stubborn or something. You will NEVER understand how intuition works. You will not understand it when it works for YOU, 100% of the time. It will be as much a mystery to you then as it is now. But it'll WORK for you. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: I'm still not clear as to whether you are judging how well the person is following his/her own internal ethics, or whether the person is following *your* own internal ethics. I understand. Life's a bitch sometimes, isn't it? :-) Intuition is one of those Been there, done that, got the T-shirt kinda things. You can't *explain* the T-shirt to someone else, and they can't wear your T-shirt. They've got to find their own, and the only way to do that is to go there and do that. If you wear the T-shirt and most (nigh unto 95%) of the decisions you make while wearing it seem to work out well -- both for you and for those you interact with -- then you come to trust it. You certainly trust it more than following guidelines and 'standards' that provide at best a 50% ROI. OF course, perhaps MMY is relying on his own trustworthy judgement that just doesn't seem that trustworthy to others... Do you honestly believe that Maharishi would say that 90 to 95% of the predictions he has made and pronouncements he has made and plans he has announced based on his trustworthy judgment have come to pass? But is has come to pass the appropriate criterion in this context? *That* was the criterion in my post that I feel is most important. It's not the feeling of certainty about one's intuitions that is important (although that can be an indicator of something to pay attention to). It's *how many* of these intuitions turn out to be *correct* over time. If *most* of them turn out to be correct, one's intuition can pretty safely be trusted. If only 50% of them turn out to be correct, then you could achieve the same result by flipping a coin. And if very, very, very *few* of one's intuitive announcements, plans, and pronouncements ever turn out to be correct (as almost anyone sane has to admit is the case with Maharishi), then I suggest he could do *better* by flipping a coin than he does by relying on his trustworthy judgment. :-) The track record is just not there for anyone to trust his intuition or judgment. I would suggest that it doesn't seem to work very well. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: I'm still not clear as to whether you are judging how well the person is following his/her own internal ethics, or whether the person is following *your* own internal ethics. I understand. Life's a bitch sometimes, isn't it? :-) Intuition is one of those Been there, done that, got the T-shirt kinda things. You can't *explain* the T-shirt to someone else, and they can't wear your T-shirt. They've got to find their own, and the only way to do that is to go there and do that. If you wear the T-shirt and most (nigh unto 95%) of the decisions you make while wearing it seem to work out well -- both for you and for those you interact with -- then you come to trust it. You certainly trust it more than following guidelines and 'standards' that provide at best a 50% ROI. I'm not asking on what basis you trust your own internal sense of ethics. I'm asking on what basis you judge somebody else's actions: (a) by how well they're following their own internal sense of ethics, or (b) by how well their own internal ethics conforms to *your* internal sense of ethics. The fact that you are asking -- and KEEP asking, even when I've replied over and over with the best answer I can give you -- indicates that you have very little personal experience with intuition and how it works. I've been trying to tell you that I *can't* explain how it works, and you keep ignoring me and asking over again, as if I were just being stubborn or something. That's because you're just being stubborn or something. I asked a *factual* question, I didn't ask you to explain how intuition works. And for the record, I have plenty of personal experience with intuition. You will NEVER understand how intuition works. You will not understand it when it works for YOU, 100% of the time. It will be as much a mystery to you then as it is now. But it'll WORK for you. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Your recollection is incorrect. I don't *know* that the experiences (of levitation, someone turning invisible, etc.) would have been captured on video or in a photograph. Most of us wouldn't find that to be real in the usual sense of hte word. Most of us can go suck eggs. What others believe or don't believe is real doesn't affect me in any way. :-) The question is, does Barry really saw X translate into X is real? Who ever claimed that it does? Who *cares* if it does? If it was real *for me* that is the *most* I can say. That's enough. I have no interest in convincing people that my reality should be theirs. You seem to. You seem obsessed with finding some objective definition of reality. Oh, Barry, Lawson's right. You really *are* stupid. Or you *get* stupid, or *play* stupid, at times, apparently because it gives you another opportunity for a putdown. What I was suggesting, of course, is exactly the opposite: that *all* reality is subjective. Then we are in agreement. And yet, you're acting all huffy. Go figure. :-) Some realities are more universally agreed upon than others. +++ That must make some realities more real than others. Reminds me of the great philosopher Flip Wilson who observed that everyone is created equal only some people are more equal than others. N. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Your recollection is incorrect. I don't *know* that the experiences (of levitation, someone turning invisible, etc.) would have been captured on video or in a photograph. Most of us wouldn't find that to be real in the usual sense of hte word. Most of us can go suck eggs. What others believe or don't believe is real doesn't affect me in any way. :-) The question is, does Barry really saw X translate into X is real? Who ever claimed that it does? Who *cares* if it does? If it was real *for me* that is the *most* I can say. That's enough. I have no interest in convincing people that my reality should be theirs. You seem to. You seem obsessed with finding some objective definition of reality. Oh, Barry, Lawson's right. You really *are* stupid. Or you *get* stupid, or *play* stupid, at times, apparently because it gives you another opportunity for a putdown. What I was suggesting, of course, is exactly the opposite: that *all* reality is subjective. Then we are in agreement. And yet, you're acting all huffy. Go figure. :-) Some realities are more universally agreed upon than others. +++ That must make some realities more real than others. Reminds me of the great philosopher Flip Wilson who observed that everyone is created equal only some people are more equal than others. N. Wot's in YOUR pocket? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: I think MMY's definition of mistakes in this context is that which prevents or slows further growth towards higher states of consciousness, not just that which overshadows the Self. That works too, just doesn't have anything to do with ethical or moral 'mistakes'. I mean no'thing' can or does overshadow the Self, you just don't know that until you know that ;-) Excellent point. The Self has *never* been overshadowed. There was never any 'progress' to be made 'towards' higher states of consciousness; they were always present, just unrealized. And behavior, both 'before' and 'after,' has always been either perfect or imperfect or both, depending purely on one's belief system. If you believe that the universe acts on its own and sentient beings are mere reflectors of that, it's always perfect. If you believe that the universe has no will and no direction of its own and any sense of 'direction' or will comes from the combined direction and will of its sentient beings, it's all a crapshoot and everything is and always has been and always will be imperfect. I'm perfectly commfortable with the latter philosophy; others prefer to believe in the eternal perfection of it all. But it's all just point of view. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: I think MMY's definition of mistakes in this context is that which prevents or slows further growth towards higher states of consciousness, not just that which overshadows the Self. That works too, just doesn't have anything to do with ethical or moral 'mistakes'. I mean no'thing' can or does overshadow the Self, you just don't know that until you know that ;-) Excellent point. The Self has *never* been overshadowed. There was never any 'progress' to be made 'towards' higher states of consciousness; they were always present, just unrealized. And behavior, both 'before' and 'after,' has always been either perfect or imperfect or both, depending purely on one's belief system. If you believe that the universe acts on its own and sentient beings are mere reflectors of that, it's always perfect. If you believe that the universe has no will and no direction of its own and any sense of 'direction' or will comes from the combined direction and will of its sentient beings, it's all a crapshoot and everything is and always has been and always will be imperfect. I'm perfectly commfortable with the latter philosophy; others prefer to believe in the eternal perfection of it all. But it's all just point of view. If you believe everything is and always has been and always will be imperfect, on what basis would you criticize another person's behavior? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
That works too, just doesn't have anything to do with ethical or moral 'mistakes'. I mean no'thing' can or does overshadow the Self, you just don't know that until you know that ;-) Excellent point. The Self has *never* been overshadowed. There was never any 'progress' to be made 'towards' higher states of consciousness; they were always present, just unrealized. And behavior, both 'before' and 'after,' has always been either perfect or imperfect or both, depending purely on one's belief system. If you believe that the universe acts on its own and sentient beings are mere reflectors of that, it's always perfect. If you believe that the universe has no will and no direction of its own and any sense of 'direction' or will comes from the combined direction and will of its sentient beings, it's all a crapshoot and everything is and always has been and always will be imperfect. I'm perfectly commfortable with the latter philosophy; others prefer to believe in the eternal perfection of it all. But it's all just point of view. If you believe everything is and always has been and always will be imperfect, on what basis would you criticize another person's behavior? Intuition, and the promptings of one's own internal ethical 'meter.' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That works too, just doesn't have anything to do with ethical or moral 'mistakes'. I mean no'thing' can or does overshadow the Self, you just don't know that until you know that ;-) Excellent point. The Self has *never* been overshadowed. There was never any 'progress' to be made 'towards' higher states of consciousness; they were always present, just unrealized. And behavior, both 'before' and 'after,' has always been either perfect or imperfect or both, depending purely on one's belief system. If you believe that the universe acts on its own and sentient beings are mere reflectors of that, it's always perfect. If you believe that the universe has no will and no direction of its own and any sense of 'direction' or will comes from the combined direction and will of its sentient beings, it's all a crapshoot and everything is and always has been and always will be imperfect. I'm perfectly commfortable with the latter philosophy; others prefer to believe in the eternal perfection of it all. But it's all just point of view. If you believe everything is and always has been and always will be imperfect, on what basis would you criticize another person's behavior? Intuition, and the promptings of one's own internal ethical 'meter.' I'm still not clear as to whether you are judging how well the person is following his/her own internal ethics, or whether the person is following *your* own internal ethics. And how can you depend on your judgment if you believe it's imperfect? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm still not clear as to whether you are judging how well the person is following his/her own internal ethics, or whether the person is following *your* own internal ethics. I understand. Life's a bitch sometimes, isn't it? :-) Intuition is one of those Been there, done that, got the T-shirt kinda things. You can't *explain* the T-shirt to someone else, and they can't wear your T-shirt. They've got to find their own, and the only way to do that is to go there and do that. If you wear the T-shirt and most (nigh unto 95%) of the decisions you make while wearing it seem to work out well -- both for you and for those you interact with -- then you come to trust it. You certainly trust it more than following guidelines and 'standards' that provide at best a 50% ROI. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lacking personal experience, if one has developed it, one could use one's intuition. And again: How do you know your intuition has developed sufficiently to be able to evaluate claims for a phenomenon that you haven't experienced? I've given you the best answer I can already, twice now. Here it is again: Intuition is one of those Been there, done that, got the T-shirt kinda things. You can't *explain* the T-shirt to someone else, and they can't wear your T-shirt. They've got to find their own, and the only way to do that is to go there and do that. You're trying to understand an experience you can only experience. +++ Great analogy the T-shirt is. Also,paraphrasing an old quote, what you have expierienced, you may say is but, what you have not, you may not say is not. Again, if you see ducks flying, there might be a good chance that chickens might also. N. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Lacking personal experience, if one has developed it, one could use one's intuition. And again: How do you know your intuition has developed sufficiently to be able to evaluate claims for a phenomenon that you haven't experienced? I've given you the best answer I can already, twice now. Here it is again: Intuition is one of those Been there, done that, got the T-shirt kinda things. You can't *explain* the T-shirt to someone else, and they can't wear your T-shirt. They've got to find their own, and the only way to do that is to go there and do that. You're trying to understand an experience you can only experience. +++ Great analogy the T-shirt is. Also,paraphrasing an old quote, what you have expierienced, you may say is but, what you have not, you may not say is not. Excellent, just what I was attempting to point out. Again, if you see ducks flying, there might be a good chance that chickens might also. N. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 2/4/06 10:32 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The latter sounds like Megalonmania 101. If you're a megalomaniac, you find a way to make *everything* about you. That's what he was doing; he wasn't really owning up to making any mistakes. Like the ice stalagmite that formed on his balcony. I thought that was a 'Shiva Lingum' :-) The Self is beyond the law (of Karma) but the consequences of action isn't. Ask Jesus Christ or Krishna. Or is aging, health problems, and death an illusion on their own level? If you define 'mistakes' as action which overshadows the Self, then maybe the definition of enlightenment holds up, but reaction in the field of karma still functions. JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 2/4/06 10:32 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The latter sounds like Megalonmania 101. If you're a megalomaniac, you find a way to make *everything* about you. That's what he was doing; he wasn't really owning up to making any mistakes. Like the ice stalagmite that formed on his balcony. I thought that was a 'Shiva Lingum' :-) The Self is beyond the law (of Karma) but the consequences of action isn't. Ask Jesus Christ or Krishna. Or is aging, health problems, and death an illusion on their own level? If you define 'mistakes' as action which overshadows the Self, then maybe the definition of enlightenment holds up, but reaction in the field of karma still functions. I think MMY's definition of mistakes in this context is that which prevents or slows further growth towards higher states of consciousness, not just that which overshadows the Self. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, ther
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 2/4/06 10:32 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The latter sounds like Megalonmania 101. If you're a megalomaniac, you find a way to make *everything* about you. That's what he was doing; he wasn't really owning up to making any mistakes. Like the ice stalagmite that formed on his balcony. I thought that was a 'Shiva Lingum' :-) The Self is beyond the law (of Karma) but the consequences of action isn't. Ask Jesus Christ or Krishna. Or is aging, health problems, and death an illusion on their own level? If you define 'mistakes' as action which overshadows the Self, then maybe the definition of enlightenment holds up, but reaction in the field of karma still functions. I think MMY's definition of mistakes in this context is that which prevents or slows further growth towards higher states of consciousness, not just that which overshadows the Self. That works too, just doesn't have anything to do with ethical or moral 'mistakes'. I mean no'thing' can or does overshadow the Self, you just don't know that until you know that ;-) JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
