[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
Jason Spock wrote: Tell us something about Tien Tai. Tian Tai is Buddhist Madyamika, which postulates that all things are void of true nature and that they are without an essential reality; that all things are real and unreal at the same time, according to Nagarjuna's Middle Way, similar to Shankaracharys's notion that Maya is unreal yet real - an appearance only.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jason Spock wrote: Tell us something about Tien Tai. Tian Tai is Buddhist Madyamika, which postulates that all things are void of true nature and that they are without an essential reality; that all things are real and unreal at the same time, according to Nagarjuna's Middle Way, similar to Shankaracharys's notion that Maya is unreal yet real - an appearance only. The Patriarch Chih-I (538-597) founded the T'ien T'ai school during the Sui dynasty in China. Like all other Buddhist lineages, the school maintained that enlightenment is achieved by realizing or seeing one's inherent Buddha nature. The school has a history closely tied to the Pure Land school and upholds the Lotus Sutra as its principle scripture. Chih-I founded this school in order to explain the various teachings of the Buddha. The Buddha taught different teachings in order to suit the different mental dispositions of sentient beings. Therefore, Chih-I clearly made the distinction between the absolute and relative truths in the Buddha's teachings. The school has three commentaries which include: The Profound Meaning of the Lotus Sutra, The Commentary of the Lotus Sutra and the Great Samatha/Vipasyana Commentary which describes the techniques to be used to recognize the Dharmakaya. Three views in which existence can described are: 1) All of existence depends on the existence of other factors, causes and conditions and therefore everything is insubstantial 2) Although phenomena and existence are merely temporary, it does have a real immediate existence that cannot be ignored 3) Middle Way: One must not fall into the extreme views of nihilism and eternalism. Therefore a Buddha recognizes the ultimate and relative truth simultaneously.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
Tell us something about Tien Tai. Yes, the body-mind is a bunch of 'components'. But the mind does NOT trans-migrate or reincarnate. It's your astral body which is a bundle of Vibrations and Latent tendencies which re-incarnate and which is what you call your soul. The Notion of 'Past lives' is something that is based upon the various bodies you choose to manifest yourself. Past lives is from the material, biological angle. From the Astral, Vibratory Plane, past-lives are aggregates of the relative self continually changing. Both are correct. So, I don't see much of a difference between the Hindu and Buddhist World-View regarding this aspect. qntmpkt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 19:23:41 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from? ---Comment below: ...that Hinduism is the only religion that reflects Nature to it's fullest possible extent. Actually, Buddhism is more consistent with the most up-to-date hypotheses concerning Cosmology - i.e. the origins of the universe itself; along with speculations on the major unanswered questions. Briefly, the universe appears to be holographic; and Buddhism had the rudiments of holography in the works of Tien Tai. Thus, Buddhist cosmology was about 1500 years ahead of modern hypotheses. In regard to the nature of the relative self; I regard Buddhism as being superior to Hinduism on the basis of my observations on the body/mind; namely, the body/mind is a bunch components rather than a reincarnating Soul. Thus, from one incarnation to the next, the relative self is continually changing and it would not be correct to say that one had past lives. (the past lives were simply aggregates of components, some of which carry over into the present.) The part of the mind/brain which records the latent memories is (in itself) just another component. In regard to ethics, Buddhism attempts to explain this by intially, fusing the concept with the Laws of Karma and Dharma. Co Jason Spock jedi_spock@ ... wrote: Sorry for the delayed response. I agree with you. MMY's version certainly has more depth. True religion should reflect Nature. Hinduism is the only religion that reflects Nature to it's fullest possible extent. The concept of Ethics is Universal. It does not change with time. Unfortunately the Indian Gov't does NOT give any importance or seriousness to the teaching of Ethics in Indian schools. Also no importance is given to Hygiene and sanitation. Both subjects should be taught in all schools all over the World. - Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
Sorry for the delayed response. I agree with you. MMY's version certainly has more depth. True religion should reflect Nature. Hinduism is the only religion that reflects Nature to it's fullest possible extent. The concept of Ethics is Universal. It does not change with time. Unfortunately the Indian Gov't does NOT give any importance or seriousness to the teaching of Ethics in Indian schools. Also no importance is given to Hygiene and sanitation. Both subjects should be taught in all schools all over the World. - Jonathan Chadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from? I've taught one version or another of a three-credit, college-level ethics course nineteen times during the past two decades, and at this point I am convinced I do not know what either 'ethics' or Ethics really is. One interesting comprehensive philosophical- ethical view that is making a comeback these days (mostly in Catholic circles, but not exclusively so) is natural law theory. Believe it or not, M.'s version is both deeper and better (or at least less intellectualistic) than all of that. In any event, we certainly do not teach ethics in K-12 here. - Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
---Comment below: ...that Hinduism is the only religion that reflects Nature to it's fullest possible extent. Actually, Buddhism is more consistent with the most up-to-date hypotheses concerning Cosmology - i.e. the origins of the universe itself; along with speculations on the major unanswered questions. Briefly, the universe appears to be holographic; and Buddhism had the rudiments of holography in the works of Tien Tai. Thus, Buddhist cosmology was about 1500 years ahead of modern hypotheses. In regard to the nature of the relative self; I regard Buddhism as being superior to Hinduism on the basis of my observations on the body/mind; namely, the body/mind is a bunch components rather than a reincarnating Soul. Thus, from one incarnation to the next, the relative self is continually changing and it would not be correct to say that one had past lives. (the past lives were simply aggregates of components, some of which carry over into the present.) The part of the mind/brain which records the latent memories is (in itself) just another component. In regard to ethics, Buddhism attempts to explain this by intially, fusing the concept with the Laws of Karma and Dharma. Co In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry for the delayed response. I agree with you. MMY's version certainly has more depth. True religion should reflect Nature. Hinduism is the only religion that reflects Nature to it's fullest possible extent. The concept of Ethics is Universal. It does not change with time. Unfortunately the Indian Gov't does NOT give any importance or seriousness to the teaching of Ethics in Indian schools. Also no importance is given to Hygiene and sanitation. Both subjects should be taught in all schools all over the World. - Jonathan Chadwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from? I've taught one version or another of a three-credit, college- level ethics course nineteen times during the past two decades, and at this point I am convinced I do not know what either 'ethics' or Ethics really is. One interesting comprehensive philosophical- ethical view that is making a comeback these days (mostly in Catholic circles, but not exclusively so) is natural law theory. Believe it or not, M.'s version is both deeper and better (or at least less intellectualistic) than all of that. In any event, we certainly do not teach ethics in K-12 here. - Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Ok, because I have some free time this afternoon, I'm going to take advantage of that fact and riff, Curtis-style or Edg-style, on my feelings about those of the Indian persuasion and why I feel that there is a *great deal* of racism in their culture. First, a necessary definition. When I use the word 'racism' in past posts or this one, I am *including* in that definition *any* support of or justification of the Hindu caste system. I *define* the caste sys- tem as a form of racism, which I further define as the systematic suppression of one social or racial or religious class by those who consider themselves better or more highly evolved or more privileged or more worthy than they are. The caste system just manages this racism without the luxury of being able to recognize those they wish to suppress visually, by their physical or racial characteristics. Second, unlike many of you here, I have never been to India, or wanted to go. The place just doesn't appeal to me. So my experience with Indians is limited to daily interactions with *expatriate* Indians -- in the United States and in Europe. That said, in those environments I have interacted on a pretty much daily basis with *hundreds* of Indian nationals of various religions and, if Hindu, of various castes. About the only thing these folks had in common was having come from India and being computer programmers. So that's the subset of Indians I am familiar with. snip So shoot me. Hang on, I'm reloading... Pardon me for saying, but you are so full of it in this case, it spills out your mouth. And if you repeat that quote of mine out of context where I responded to Curtis saying that I wasn't insulting him, you are mistaken this time. (For a writer you have such a poor understanding of context, it boggles the mind.) I *am* insulting you, or more precisely, I am insulting your racist attitude against Indians from India. First, there are nearly a billion people in India, and a far greater percentage of the population here in the Bay Area is Indian vs. in New York or France. To extrapolate your opinion of these billion people based on your racist views of a few hundred is unforgivable. I find Indians here in the Bay Area to be far from the churlish, spiteful and arrogant individuals you describe. They tend to be as well educated, personable and as well rounded as anyone else I know. And unfailingly polite. And this is true whether or not they have just arrived here, or been here for years. Same goes with the Indians I interact with in India, in business meetings. Are they *better* or worse as a class of people than anyone else? Can't say. Haven't met all one billion of them. A racist, like you, is someone who will extrapolate the worst about a group of people based on carefully selected experiences and observations. Hence those who call black people and Mexicans lazy. You are no better. Just another member of the KKK in my book. Nothing cool or spiritual about that. Just deeply ignorant. Your ignorance of the caste system makes me blanch, too, sounding to me most like a fat cat Republican who declares all unions to be bad because they have been associated with corruption. The caste system in India is a system whereby society is organized according to its dharma. Does it work perfectly today? No. Does any other social convention? No. Another example of your racism. Racism is a byproduct of ignorance, which you have displayed by having interacted with select groups of Indians, formed an opinion of the other billion, and now declare that you would not go to India because of your racist opinions. You are one Ugly American. But guess who here would be the first to raise an outcry if someone else had made unflattering remarks about the population of a country on the basis of knowing a few expatriates in a very highly specialized profession?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Turq, Nice writing, but that was definitely not an Edg-style piece -- ain't no one can do my thang -- As if anyone would want to. :-) And I think the caste system is a wonderful concept for social structure!! If only it worked! I think it sucks even on paper. We must agree to disagree on this. The caste system was invented to keep the currently ruling classes (and their kids after them) in power, and the rest of the people doing their bidding. End of story. Any religious or spiritual explanation for it came afterwards, as a justification. I started out as an elementary special education teacher 40 years ago, and I'll tell you this: the least endowed kid had as much emotional investment in life, had as many hopes and dreams and plans, had as big a passion to meet destiny -- as EVERYONE I'VE EVER MET. Yet, they needed a special educational structure to thrive and grow. I would say instead that the teachers needed more flexibility, and the ability to deal with kids one on one, to do whatever was necessary to reach them. Instead, what ususally happens is that those kids who don't respond to the shitty educational status quo they are fed are deemed challenged, and stuck with that epithet the rest of their lives, whereas in reality it's the teachers who are challenged for having so little imagination. When a higher caste person looks upon any lesser caste and does not recognize this heroism, then that person, in fact, is failing to rise up to the responsibilities of his caste and is sinning -- sinning egregiously. It's not the caste system. It's the caste system. When a higher caste person looks upon a person of lower caste and sees only a victim, they are using the system *as it was designed to be used*. Don't blame the caste system. I blame the caste system; it's an inhumane system designed by quasi-humans devoid of either seeing or compassion. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. Better to drop the subject right here...you aren't going to like the things I have to say about systematized forms of racism and oppression such as the Hindu caste system, much less the people who justify them...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Turq, Nice writing, but that was definitely not an Edg-style piece -- ain't no one can do my thang -- As if anyone would want to. :-) And I think the caste system is a wonderful concept for social structure!! If only it worked! I think it sucks even on paper. We must agree to disagree on this. The caste system was invented to keep the currently ruling classes (and their kids after them) in power, and the rest of the people doing their bidding. End of story. Any religious or spiritual explanation for it came afterwards, as a justification. I started out as an elementary special education teacher 40 years ago, and I'll tell you this: the least endowed kid had as much emotional investment in life, had as many hopes and dreams and plans, had as big a passion to meet destiny -- as EVERYONE I'VE EVER MET. Yet, they needed a special educational structure to thrive and grow. I would say instead that the teachers needed more flexibility, and the ability to deal with kids one on one, to do whatever was necessary to reach them. Instead, what ususally happens is that those kids who don't respond to the shitty educational status quo they are fed are deemed challenged, and stuck with that epithet the rest of their lives, whereas in reality it's the teachers who are challenged for having so little imagination. When a higher caste person looks upon any lesser caste and does not recognize this heroism, then that person, in fact, is failing to rise up to the responsibilities of his caste and is sinning -- sinning egregiously. It's not the caste system. It's the caste system. When a higher caste person looks upon a person of lower caste and sees only a victim, they are using the system *as it was designed to be used*. Don't blame the caste system. I blame the caste system; it's an inhumane system designed by quasi-humans devoid of either seeing or compassion. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. Better to drop the subject right here...you aren't going to like the things I have to say about systematized forms of racism and oppression such as the Hindu caste system, much less the people who justify them... How about this; the americans are fast becoming a pariacaste in international affairs !
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: snip And I think the caste system is a wonderful concept for social structure!! If only it worked! I think it sucks even on paper. We must agree to disagree on this. The caste system was invented to keep the currently ruling classes (and their kids after them) in power, and the rest of the people doing their bidding. End of story. Any religious or spiritual explanation for it came afterwards, as a justification. Given that there is no consensus among scholars as to how and why the caste system originated, should we assume your certainty on these points comes from a past-life recollection of being in attendance at its invention?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
Turq, Thanks for allowing us to disagree. It'd be silly for me to invest in wanting that you think what I think, cuz, hey, how could I possibly know what you really think such that I could have a certainty about that? Where's my diagnostic tools for that kind of work? Heck, inside my mind, only me being involved, if I had the same thought twice in a row, how could I even prove those two thoughts were identical except that, yep, yet a third thought must come in and confirm that that is the case, and now we've got this outsider thought who arrives after the fact claiming to know about the previous two thoughts, indeed, even to the extent of being an expert. Sigh.. Mantra, mantra, mantra, mantra -- all identical, right? Or, if you prefer, let's say that they're all slightly different, right? WELL WHAT MAKES ME SO DAMNED SURE? That's the area in which I love to play. What functionality of my mind can produce that certainty despite my ego being completely out of that decision loop, because the decision that identical thoughts occurred is done by the extraordinarily subtle intellect churning out core memes for which the cortex then fashions a verbal gift wrapping, and voila! a thought occurs to the ego. Something like that -- ask Patanjali, cuz, you know, that I don't know, not really, jack or even jack's excrement about this. Or, wait, how could you know that I don't know when I've just made the point that tools for such diagnosis are non-existent in the lives of most of us? Never mind! But I digress. The subject was caste system. Oh, it's being used for every manner of evil. Wives must burn themselves to death. Wives are returned-to-sender or killed when their dowries run out. Any group of men in a village can call a woman an adulterer and kill her on the spot, and no one will report anything to the authorities -- be as mum about what really happened as, well the MUM course office folks can be mummish. We don't know what happened, the sun was in our eyes. Yeah, evil. No doubt. And, gawd, these are the folks who namaste you every other nee-nee-na-na-no-nosecond. Go figure, no, wait, that'll make my head hurt. But Turq, Turq, Turq, can you really say that it's the caste system that CAUSES THIS? I mean, you and causality are not bosom buddies as far as I can tell -- where's traction for Maya? It's all the Absolute's fizz, right? Just synchrony not causality, right? Am I misinterpreting you on that issue? And Turq, do you really think that the small potentates of the various Soviet territories were LESS evil in their doings? Do you think that the Popes of the past haven't lifted the robes of nuns, that Sufi whirlers didn't swing some slave girl off into the bushes, that the witches drowned in New England were guilty? I cannot stratify these evils, cannot order them into a hierarchy. They're all on the same level. 50,000,000 million folks died in WWII -- Hitler's evil use of Germanic tribalism's DNA deep addiction to racial purity. Pol Pot used communism. Stalin killed 20 million of his own people. Red-blooded Americans killed the Native Americans for what? -- democracy -- we voted to kill the Indians, so it's okay. Every killer on this list thought he was doing a good thing!! And men kill polar bears who kill these lovable seals who kill loveable penguins who kill loveable, delicate, ever so silent fishys or gobble amazingly intelligent krill who slobber down miraculous microorganisms who absorb the loveliest of carbon based molecules who have commandeered the uses of devic quark forces that consume the Absolute's black hole mystic effervescences. The caste system is just another way to organize the mayhem. In theory, it's works pretty good during Sat Yugahee hee. Now, don't get me wrong here. The Vedic delineations of castes make the Nazis look childish with their notions of purity -- step aside Hitler, let a Brahmin class mind tell you about categorizing the milch kind. I mean, would Hitler ever had come up with If you step over a rope tied to a calf's neck, you have sinned. Talk about exactitude. Mosaic law, eat your heart out. In India, they've worked on this for 5 frickin thousand years and didn't have NASCAR or American Idol to distract them. Maybe they obsessively watch Amma Idolatry, but what do I know -- is that where Sanjaya got his start? Come on, Turq, can you overcome your upbringing when those code jockies spewed their racism? I've had Arab friends who sent shivers up my back with some of their righteous thoughts about smoking opium and wife swapping. I've seen cops abusing ordinary folks on the streets of Taipei with a ferocity that would have CNN doing a 24/7 coverage of if it had occurred in America. I've seen the look in a French cab driver's eyes when my first words to him were English. I've seen the dead-eyed stare of the zombies in the course office. I've seen my own father spanking me as a 10 year old. All these
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
Do you have any black friends? Ask them where they had lunch yesterday. If it is a place where you have ever eaten yourself, you will understand the difference between legally sanctioned prejudice (especially the version supported by religious beliefs) and people acting like dickheads to each other without the support of the social system. Getting rid of Jim Crow Laws in the South did a lot of good even though it wasn't the laws that caused prejudice, it was the people's ignorance. But the difference is that now black people have legal protection from those prejudices. It isn't perfect, but if you hang out with any black folks you will understand that it is way way better. People in the South had to integrate schools at the point of a gun. People are still prejudiced, but I can have lunch at the same table with black friends. Better. As far as India is concerned, you don't have to trust Turq, read some Gandhi. He knew a thing or two about how the caste system effects people's lives in India. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Turq, Thanks for allowing us to disagree. It'd be silly for me to invest in wanting that you think what I think, cuz, hey, how could I possibly know what you really think such that I could have a certainty about that? Where's my diagnostic tools for that kind of work? Heck, inside my mind, only me being involved, if I had the same thought twice in a row, how could I even prove those two thoughts were identical except that, yep, yet a third thought must come in and confirm that that is the case, and now we've got this outsider thought who arrives after the fact claiming to know about the previous two thoughts, indeed, even to the extent of being an expert. Sigh.. Mantra, mantra, mantra, mantra -- all identical, right? Or, if you prefer, let's say that they're all slightly different, right? WELL WHAT MAKES ME SO DAMNED SURE? That's the area in which I love to play. What functionality of my mind can produce that certainty despite my ego being completely out of that decision loop, because the decision that identical thoughts occurred is done by the extraordinarily subtle intellect churning out core memes for which the cortex then fashions a verbal gift wrapping, and voila! a thought occurs to the ego. Something like that -- ask Patanjali, cuz, you know, that I don't know, not really, jack or even jack's excrement about this. Or, wait, how could you know that I don't know when I've just made the point that tools for such diagnosis are non-existent in the lives of most of us? Never mind! But I digress. The subject was caste system. Oh, it's being used for every manner of evil. Wives must burn themselves to death. Wives are returned-to-sender or killed when their dowries run out. Any group of men in a village can call a woman an adulterer and kill her on the spot, and no one will report anything to the authorities -- be as mum about what really happened as, well the MUM course office folks can be mummish. We don't know what happened, the sun was in our eyes. Yeah, evil. No doubt. And, gawd, these are the folks who namaste you every other nee-nee-na-na-no-nosecond. Go figure, no, wait, that'll make my head hurt. But Turq, Turq, Turq, can you really say that it's the caste system that CAUSES THIS? I mean, you and causality are not bosom buddies as far as I can tell -- where's traction for Maya? It's all the Absolute's fizz, right? Just synchrony not causality, right? Am I misinterpreting you on that issue? And Turq, do you really think that the small potentates of the various Soviet territories were LESS evil in their doings? Do you think that the Popes of the past haven't lifted the robes of nuns, that Sufi whirlers didn't swing some slave girl off into the bushes, that the witches drowned in New England were guilty? I cannot stratify these evils, cannot order them into a hierarchy. They're all on the same level. 50,000,000 million folks died in WWII -- Hitler's evil use of Germanic tribalism's DNA deep addiction to racial purity. Pol Pot used communism. Stalin killed 20 million of his own people. Red-blooded Americans killed the Native Americans for what? -- democracy -- we voted to kill the Indians, so it's okay. Every killer on this list thought he was doing a good thing!! And men kill polar bears who kill these lovable seals who kill loveable penguins who kill loveable, delicate, ever so silent fishys or gobble amazingly intelligent krill who slobber down miraculous microorganisms who absorb the loveliest of carbon based molecules who have commandeered the uses of devic quark forces that consume the Absolute's black hole mystic effervescences. The caste system is just another way to organize the mayhem. In theory, it's works pretty good during Sat Yugahee hee. Now, don't get me wrong here. The Vedic
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Ok, because I have some free time this afternoon, I'm going to take advantage of that fact and riff, Curtis-style or Edg-style, on my feelings about those of the Indian persuasion and why I feel that there is a *great deal* of racism in their culture. First, a necessary definition. When I use the word 'racism' in past posts or this one, I am *including* in that definition *any* support of or justification of the Hindu caste system. I *define* the caste sys- tem as a form of racism, which I further define as the systematic suppression of one social or racial or religious class by those who consider themselves better or more highly evolved or more privileged or more worthy than they are. The caste system just manages this racism without the luxury of being able to recognize those they wish to suppress visually, by their physical or racial characteristics. Second, unlike many of you here, I have never been to India, or wanted to go. The place just doesn't appeal to me. So my experience with Indians is limited to daily interactions with *expatriate* Indians -- in the United States and in Europe. That said, in those environments I have interacted on a pretty much daily basis with *hundreds* of Indian nationals of various religions and, if Hindu, of various castes. About the only thing these folks had in common was having come from India and being computer programmers. So that's the subset of Indians I am familiar with. snip So shoot me. Hang on, I'm reloading... Pardon me for saying, but you are so full of it in this case, it spills out your mouth. And if you repeat that quote of mine out of context where I responded to Curtis saying that I wasn't insulting him, you are mistaken this time. (For a writer you have such a poor understanding of context, it boggles the mind.) I *am* insulting you, or more precisely, I am insulting your racist attitude against Indians from India. First, there are nearly a billion people in India, and a far greater percentage of the population here in the Bay Area is Indian vs. in New York or France. To extrapolate your opinion of these billion people based on your racist views of a few hundred is unforgivable. I find Indians here in the Bay Area to be far from the churlish, spiteful and arrogant individuals you describe. They tend to be as well educated, personable and as well rounded as anyone else I know. And unfailingly polite. And this is true whether or not they have just arrived here, or been here for years. Same goes with the Indians I interact with in India, in business meetings. Are they *better* or worse as a class of people than anyone else? Can't say. Haven't met all one billion of them. A racist, like you, is someone who will extrapolate the worst about a group of people based on carefully selected experiences and observations. Hence those who call black people and Mexicans lazy. You are no better. Just another member of the KKK in my book. Nothing cool or spiritual about that. Just deeply ignorant. Your ignorance of the caste system makes me blanch, too, sounding to me most like a fat cat Republican who declares all unions to be bad because they have been associated with corruption. The caste system in India is a system whereby society is organized according to its dharma. Does it work perfectly today? No. Does any other social convention? No. Another example of your racism. Racism is a byproduct of ignorance, which you have displayed by having interacted with select groups of Indians, formed an opinion of the other billion, and now declare that you would not go to India because of your racist opinions. You are one Ugly American. But guess who here would be the first to raise an outcry if someone else had made unflattering remarks about the population of a country on the basis of knowing a few expatriates in a very highly specialized profession? He Who Lives Under The Watchful Eye Of Ten Thousand Imaginary Demons? The Master Of Straw Men? Emperor Of The Passive-Agressive Remark? King Of The Out Of Context Rebuttal; Saviour Of The Facile Argument?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you have any black friends? Ask them where they had lunch yesterday. If it is a place where you have ever eaten yourself, you will understand the difference between legally sanctioned prejudice (especially the version supported by religious beliefs) and people acting like dickheads to each other without the support of the social system. Getting rid of Jim Crow Laws in the South did a lot of good even though it wasn't the laws that caused prejudice, it was the people's ignorance. But the difference is that now black people have legal protection from those prejudices. It isn't perfect, but if you hang out with any black folks you will understand that it is way way better. People in the South had to integrate schools at the point of a gun. People are still prejudiced, but I can have lunch at the same table with black friends. Better. As far as India is concerned, you don't have to trust Turq, read some Gandhi. He knew a thing or two about how the caste system effects people's lives in India. Ever heard the expression, throwing the baby out with the bath water? This is what I see with those who would condemn the caste system. The same mentality that ceaselessly goes after Maharishi and his efforts. The product of coarse intellects who can only see the black or white of any situation, who must pronounce something either 100% good or 100% bad. (Except themselves of course, who are oh so complex and multi-faceted...). What happened to striving for ideals? Again I call this criticism of the Indian caste system racist. Why? Because those who criticize it are doing so because it is Indian. If not, they would find greater fault with our US democracy, a system that allows the most incompetent, mean spirited dick-heads to run the most powerful country in the world. You see no problem with that? No, let's knock the caste system instead, something we barely understand, have never lived within, and are judging based on its worst excesses. Better yet, some on this board have even wholly imagined why the caste system was invented! Amazing! I am now waiting for this same source to enlighten us as to why the wind, sun and clouds were invented. Looks to me like a couple of fools on the hill need to get their feet on the ground.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip But guess who here would be the first to raise an outcry if someone else had made unflattering remarks about the population of a country on the basis of knowing a few expatriates in a very highly specialized profession? He Who Lives Under The Watchful Eye Of Ten Thousand Imaginary Demons? The Master Of Straw Men? Emperor Of The Passive-Agressive Remark? King Of The Out Of Context Rebuttal; Saviour Of The Facile Argument? LOL!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
Comment below: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: **snip** What happened to striving for ideals? Again I call this criticism of the Indian caste system racist. Why? Because those who criticize it are doing so because it is Indian. If not, they would find greater fault with our US democracy, a system that allows the most incompetent, mean spirited dick-heads to run the most powerful country in the world. You see no problem with that? No, let's knock the caste system instead, something we barely understand, have never lived within, and are judging based on its worst excesses. **end** The U.S. democratic republic only truly functions as a democracy at the level of local elections and becomes less and less a democracy as the scope of the elective office expands. As far as presidential contests are concerned there is a strong tendency to elect (or at least, promote) legacy candidates. The Adams, the Roosevelts, the Kennedys, the Clintons, and the Bushes all represent an expression of the public's trust in the value of a ruling class. That seems to be a natural inclination in people -- to invest in the perceived (or believed) dharma of a family, essentially a caste designation. And there may be some value to it, too, I don't know and couldn't say. Certainly you see it in India with the Gandhis and virtually every dictator or despot in whatever society or culture appoints, or attempts to, a son or family member as his successor. Maharishi has apparently done so with Girish and by extension the rest of the Srivastava clan even though Tony Nader and John Hagelin and the other non-Indians have some honorary status.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
Jonathan Chadwick wrote: One interesting comprehensive philosophical-ethical view that is making a comeback these days (mostly in Catholic circles, but not exclusively so) is natural law theory. Believe it or not, M.'s version is both deeper and better (or at least less intellectualistic) than all of that. In any event, we certainly do not teach ethics in K-12 here. Catholic Natural Law theory overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law#Contemporary_Catholic_Understan\ ding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law#Contemporary_Catholic_Understa\ nding
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, because I have some free time this afternoon, I'm going to take advantage of that fact and riff, Curtis-style or Edg-style, on my feelings about those of the Indian persuasion and why I feel that there is a *great deal* of racism in their culture. First, a necessary definition. When I use the word 'racism' in past posts or this one, I am *including* in that definition *any* support of or justification of the Hindu caste system. I *define* the caste sys- tem as a form of racism, which I further define as the systematic suppression of one social or racial or religious class by those who consider themselves better or more highly evolved or more privileged or more worthy than they are. The caste system just manages this racism without the luxury of being able to recognize those they wish to suppress visually, by their physical or racial characteristics. Second, unlike many of you here, I have never been to India, or wanted to go. The place just doesn't appeal to me. So my experience with Indians is limited to daily interactions with *expatriate* Indians -- in the United States and in Europe. That said, in those environments I have interacted on a pretty much daily basis with *hundreds* of Indian nationals of various religions and, if Hindu, of various castes. About the only thing these folks had in common was having come from India and being computer programmers. So that's the subset of Indians I am familiar with. snip So shoot me. Hang on, I'm reloading... Pardon me for saying, but you are so full of it in this case, it spills out your mouth. And if you repeat that quote of mine out of context where I responded to Curtis saying that I wasn't insulting him, you are mistaken this time. (For a writer you have such a poor understanding of context, it boggles the mind.) I *am* insulting you, or more precisely, I am insulting your racist attitude against Indians from India. First, there are nearly a billion people in India, and a far greater percentage of the population here in the Bay Area is Indian vs. in New York or France. To extrapolate your opinion of these billion people based on your racist views of a few hundred is unforgivable. I find Indians here in the Bay Area to be far from the churlish, spiteful and arrogant individuals you describe. They tend to be as well educated, personable and as well rounded as anyone else I know. And unfailingly polite. And this is true whether or not they have just arrived here, or been here for years. Same goes with the Indians I interact with in India, in business meetings. Are they *better* or worse as a class of people than anyone else? Can't say. Haven't met all one billion of them. A racist, like you, is someone who will extrapolate the worst about a group of people based on carefully selected experiences and observations. Hence those who call black people and Mexicans lazy. You are no better. Just another member of the KKK in my book. Nothing cool or spiritual about that. Just deeply ignorant. Your ignorance of the caste system makes me blanch, too, sounding to me most like a fat cat Republican who declares all unions to be bad because they have been associated with corruption. The caste system in India is a system whereby society is organized according to its dharma. Does it work perfectly today? No. Does any other social convention? No. Another example of your racism. Racism is a byproduct of ignorance, which you have displayed by having interacted with select groups of Indians, formed an opinion of the other billion, and now declare that you would not go to India because of your racist opinions. You are one Ugly American.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
The Catholic natural law view closest to M.'s version is expressed (believe it or not) in Karol Wojtyla's (JPII's) The Acting Person. I've taught the first english version of that book cover-to-cover three times, and I'm tellin' ya - that was one heavy pope. george_deforest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonathan Chadwick wrote: One interesting comprehensive philosophical-ethical view that is making a comeback these days (mostly in Catholic circles, but not exclusively so) is natural law theory. Believe it or not, M.'s version is both deeper and better (or at least less intellectualistic) than all of that. In any event, we certainly do not teach ethics in K-12 here. Catholic Natural Law theory overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law#Contemporary_Catholic_Understanding - Ahhh...imagining that irresistible new car smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. - Ahhh...imagining that irresistible new car smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 4/26/2007 1:56:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com) , curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here ya go. I agree with your point, but I also enjoy calling Richard Gere a dick. I'm pretty sure this wont help his cause. I don't think it would be pandering to lighten up on the old letch vibe a bit. It really wasn't fair to the chick. What I saw (couldn't hear any sound in this noisy cafe if there was sound) was the chick dragging an obviously reluctant Gere up on stage and not letting him go, all to help her career (she won a silly TV talent contest, ferchrissakes) and him playing along, and then giving her career a bit more of a boost than she expected. She'll ride this tempest in a pisspot all the way to the Bank Of Bollywood. Face it -- this furor is because of Hindu racism, pure and simple. They didn't like seeing a white guy kissing one of their own, especially one that they jack off to photos of every night before get- ting up the next morning and pretending to be pure little Brahmins. :-) Ever see Deepa Metha's Fire? There is a scene in the movie where a guy is doing that right in front of his grandmother. The BJP was not fond of Metha's movies and she was kicked out of India when trying to film Water. Her ex was on the Beatles course and published a book of photographs from that course. I hear you no-reply. We finally agree for a change. Thank you for your last reply in wishing me a fast healing with my present personal circumstances. Lsoma. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: India, that's where. Sometimes the sheer backasswards idiocy of India just blows my mind. my good parents solved this problem for me a long time ago when i was a child. they simply said: There are good and bad people among all groups. they survived the czarist regime, the communists, ww2( i was born in the midst of it, 1939 ), etc. immigrated to America in 1949. been to India three years ago; no problem! except for the mosquitoes. what's to judge? isn't the world a reflection of inner self? if you don't like it change yourself. god bless, amarnath
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Here ya go. I agree with your point, but I also enjoy calling Richard Gere a dick. I'm pretty sure this wont help his cause. I don't think it would be pandering to lighten up on the old letch vibe a bit. It really wasn't fair to the chick. What I saw (couldn't hear any sound in this noisy cafe if there was sound) was the chick dragging an obviously reluctant Gere up on stage I saw no reluctance on Gere's part in that clip. and not letting him go, all to help her career (she won a silly TV talent contest, ferchrissakes) and him playing along, and then giving her career a bit more of a boost than she expected. She'll ride this tempest in a pisspot all the way to the Bank Of Bollywood. If it does give her career a boost rather than ruin it, I guess the Indians can't be that prudish, eh? Oh, wait, no, it's racism, not prudishness: Face it -- this furor is because of Hindu racism, pure and simple. They didn't like seeing a white guy kissing one of their own, especially one that they jack off to photos of every night before get- ting up the next morning and pretending to be pure little Brahmins. :-) Right, it's *Hindus* who are racist. There are Hells Angels in Europe, so perhaps Barry could start a chapter of the KKK in France. Then all of the 'colored folk' could bend over and kiss his lily white ass. I am just observing what I see. If you find what I said insulting, I am at a loss for words. - Jim Flanegin, yesterday Do some reading, people...this non-event is being written up EVEN IN INDIA as the work of Hindu Supremicist groups, and the word racism as a reason for all this hubbub comes up in those accounts rather often. Not all Indians are this stupid and this elitist and this bigoted, but it appears that those who chose to make a big deal of this *are*. And those who defend their actions are, in my opinion, in agreement with their elitist tendencies and, if karma worked the way it should, would probably end up sharing the same shit sandwich in hell with them. I'm just fed up with idiots who defend Things Indian just because they're Indian. I've met and worked with and for a fairly large number of upper-caste Hindus in my life, and although I have met a few nice individuals among them, as a group i would have to class them as far more racist and elitist than rabid White Supremicists I've met in the U.S. My point is that there are idiots everywhere. In this case, in India. And, it would seem, on FFL.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Here ya go. I agree with your point, but I also enjoy calling Richard Gere a dick. I'm pretty sure this wont help his cause. I don't think it would be pandering to lighten up on the old letch vibe a bit. It really wasn't fair to the chick. What I saw (couldn't hear any sound in this noisy cafe if there was sound) was the chick dragging an obviously reluctant Gere up on stage I saw no reluctance on Gere's part in that clip. and not letting him go, all to help her career (she won a silly TV talent contest, ferchrissakes) and him playing along, and then giving her career a bit more of a boost than she expected. She'll ride this tempest in a pisspot all the way to the Bank Of Bollywood. If it does give her career a boost rather than ruin it, I guess the Indians can't be that prudish, eh? Oh, wait, no, it's racism, not prudishness: Face it -- this furor is because of Hindu racism, pure and simple. They didn't like seeing a white guy kissing one of their own, especially one that they jack off to photos of every night before get- ting up the next morning and pretending to be pure little Brahmins. :-) Right, it's *Hindus* who are racist. There are Hells Angels in Europe, so perhaps Barry could start a chapter of the KKK in France. Then all of the 'colored folk' could bend over and kiss his lily white ass. I am just observing what I see. If you find what I said insulting, I am at a loss for words. - Jim Flanegin, yesterday Do some reading, people...this non-event is being written up EVEN IN INDIA as the work of Hindu Supremicist groups, and the word racism as a reason for all this hubbub comes up in those accounts rather often. Not all Indians are this stupid and this elitist and this bigoted, but it appears that those who chose to make a big deal of this *are*. And those who defend their actions are, in my opinion, in agreement with their elitist tendencies and, if karma worked the way it should, would probably end up sharing the same shit sandwich in hell with them. Was anybody here defending those making the fuss? Or was it a matter of criticizing Gere for not having realized that what he did was likely to start a fuss? As well as noticing that some of the comments criticizing the fuss-makers were so broad and unpleasant as to themselves have a distinctly racist tinge? I'm just fed up with idiots who defend Things Indian just because they're Indian. Again: Was anyone here doing that? I've met and worked with and for a fairly large number of upper-caste Hindus in my life, and although I have met a few nice individuals among them, as a group i would have to class them as far more racist and elitist than rabid White Supremicists I've met in the U.S. My point is that there are idiots everywhere. In this case, in India. And, it would seem, on FFL.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
Ok, because I have some free time this afternoon, I'm going to take advantage of that fact and riff, Curtis-style or Edg-style, on my feelings about those of the Indian persuasion and why I feel that there is a *great deal* of racism in their culture. First, a necessary definition. When I use the word 'racism' in past posts or this one, I am *including* in that definition *any* support of or justification of the Hindu caste system. I *define* the caste sys- tem as a form of racism, which I further define as the systematic suppression of one social or racial or religious class by those who consider themselves better or more highly evolved or more privileged or more worthy than they are. The caste system just manages this racism without the luxury of being able to recognize those they wish to suppress visually, by their physical or racial characteristics. Second, unlike many of you here, I have never been to India, or wanted to go. The place just doesn't appeal to me. So my experience with Indians is limited to daily interactions with *expatriate* Indians -- in the United States and in Europe. That said, in those environments I have interacted on a pretty much daily basis with *hundreds* of Indian nationals of various religions and, if Hindu, of various castes. About the only thing these folks had in common was having come from India and being computer programmers. So that's the subset of Indians I am familiar with. My longest experience working with Indian programmers was on a nightmare three-year project for Pepsico. The company had been sold a bill of goods by a big, famous consulting company, which had convinced Pepsi that it had to move away from mainframe technology into the modern world of client-server by converting all of their existing systems at once. Really. So Pepsi hired something like 500 consultants to do all this for them. As it turned out, given the politics of contract pro- gramming in the New York/Westchester County area, about 350 of these contractors were Indian. They had been imported from India very much in the same way as the pundits have been imported to Fairfield, by a few power- ful Indian families, who hired their own cousins and relatives of cousins from India, put them up at the local YMCA, and paid them $10.00 an hour for their work. These families then billed Pepsico $100 an hour for the same rent-a-programmers. So I got to sit in boiler rooms full of primarily Indian programmers, primarily of either the Brahmin or Kshatriya caste, and listen to the things they talked about on a daily basis. For three years. And then the experience repeated itself in other programming envir- onments such as Citibank and Salomon Brothers and Ciby-Geigy and ING. What they talked about shocked the shit out of me, and forever disabused me of the notion that Indians were *in any way* more evolved than anyone else on this planet. The first thing that shocked me was the almost *instantaneous* way that the Indians I worked with bagged another Indian upon meeting him or her for the first time. All it took was hearing the name. From that everyone *instantly* knew what religion the person was, and if Hindu, what caste. And their attitude towards the person shifted equally instantly, based on that religion or caste. A newbie would join the group, and everyone would be friendly and outgoing, and then they'd hear his name. At that point about half of the room would move away from the newbie and go back to their seats, and never speak to the newbie again except in the necessary course of business. I got to sit in those rooms and hear how these guys, be they Muslim, Brahmin, Kshatriya or whatever talked about women, and the very *different* ways they talked about Western women (hos, the lot of them) and Indian women (either saints or hos, depending upon their religion or caste). Lemme tell you, *that* was a real education. I got to sit there and listen to the Brahmins brag about how a group of 10-15 of them had gotten together the night before and kicked the shit out of a Kshatriya guy who had dared to ask out the sister of one of the Brahmins. They joked about how long he'd spend in the hospital. This happened more than once. I got to sit there and listen to some of these guys talk about how they were being taken to the cleaners *by their own relatives*, and their sense of powerlessness about being able to do anything about it, because of these relatives' power and influence back in India. So when I say that (*besides* the things I've read about this Richard Gere thing in articles from India posted elsewhere) I suspect that racism/the caste system has a lot to do with it, it's based on the above experience with *Indians in the world*, NOT the Indians that people who are really into spiritual trips think of as Indians. OF COURSE racism/the caste system had something to do with it. The very group that started all the ruckus is a well- known Hindu supremicist group; the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Here ya go. I agree with your point, but I also enjoy calling Richard Gere a dick. I'm pretty sure this wont help his cause. I don't think it would be pandering to lighten up on the old letch vibe a bit. It really wasn't fair to the chick. What I saw (couldn't hear any sound in this noisy cafe if there was sound) was the chick dragging an obviously reluctant Gere up on stage I saw no reluctance on Gere's part in that clip. and not letting him go, all to help her career (she won a silly TV talent contest, ferchrissakes) and him playing along, and then giving her career a bit more of a boost than she expected. She'll ride this tempest in a pisspot all the way to the Bank Of Bollywood. If it does give her career a boost rather than ruin it, I guess the Indians can't be that prudish, eh? Oh, wait, no, it's racism, not prudishness: Face it -- this furor is because of Hindu racism, pure and simple. They didn't like seeing a white guy kissing one of their own, especially one that they jack off to photos of every night before get- ting up the next morning and pretending to be pure little Brahmins. :-) Right, it's *Hindus* who are racist. There are Hells Angels in Europe, so perhaps Barry could start a chapter of the KKK in France. Then all of the 'colored folk' could bend over and kiss his lily white ass. I am just observing what I see. If you find what I said insulting, I am at a loss for words. - Jim Flanegin, yesterday Do some reading, people...this non-event is being written up EVEN IN INDIA as the work of Hindu Supremicist groups, and the word racism as a reason for all this hubbub comes up in those accounts rather often. Not all Indians are this stupid and this elitist and this bigoted, but it appears that those who chose to make a big deal of this *are*. And those who defend their actions are, in my opinion, in agreement with their elitist tendencies and, if karma worked the way it should, would probably end up sharing the same shit sandwich in hell with them. I'm just fed up with idiots who defend Things Indian just because they're Indian. I've met and worked with and for a fairly large number of upper-caste Hindus in my life, and although I have met a few nice individuals among them, as a group i would have to class them as far more racist and elitist than rabid White Supremicists I've met in the U.S. My point is that there are idiots everywhere. In this case, in India. And, it would seem, on FFL. If I had to carry all assumptions you are making here, I'd break my back.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
Racism and Casteism in india is Socio-economic. The problem is both individual and collective. Personal Jealousy combined with Collective dogma becomes a potent Poison. Unfortunately, the educational system in India has not devoted enough time for the subject of 'ethics'. I believe the subject of Ethics should be taught right from Nursery School. TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:55:09 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from? Ok, because I have some free time this afternoon, I'm going to take advantage of that fact and riff, Curtis-style or Edg-style, on my feelings about those of the Indian persuasion and why I feel that there is a *great deal* of racism in their culture. First, a necessary definition. When I use the word 'racism' in past posts or this one, I am *including* in that definition *any* support of or justification of the Hindu caste system. I *define* the caste sys- tem as a form of racism, which I further define as the systematic suppression of one social or racial or religious class by those who consider themselves better or more highly evolved or more privileged or more worthy than they are. The caste system just manages this racism without the luxury of being able to recognize those they wish to suppress visually, by their physical or racial characteristics. Second, unlike many of you here, I have never been to India, or wanted to go. The place just doesn't appeal to me. So my experience with Indians is limited to daily interactions with *expatriate* Indians -- in the United States and in Europe. That said, in those environments I have interacted on a pretty much daily basis with *hundreds* of Indian nationals of various religions and, if Hindu, of various castes. About the only thing these folks had in common was having come from India and being computer programmers. So that's the subset of Indians I am familiar with. My longest experience working with Indian programmers was on a nightmare three-year project for Pepsico. The company had been sold a bill of goods by a big, famous consulting company, which had convinced Pepsi that it had to move away from mainframe technology into the modern world of client-server by converting all of their existing systems at once. Really. So Pepsi hired something like 500 consultants to do all this for them. As it turned out, given the politics of contract pro- gramming in the New York/Westchester County area, about 350 of these contractors were Indian. They had been imported from India very much in the same way as the pundits have been imported to Fairfield, by a few power- ful Indian families, who hired their own cousins and relatives of cousins from India, put them up at the local YMCA, and paid them $10.00 an hour for their work. These families then billed Pepsico $100 an hour for the same rent-a-programmers. So I got to sit in boiler rooms full of primarily Indian programmers, primarily of either the Brahmin or Kshatriya caste, and listen to the things they talked about on a daily basis. For three years. And then the experience repeated itself in other programming envir- onments such as Citibank and Salomon Brothers and Ciby-Geigy and ING. What they talked about shocked the shit out of me, and forever disabused me of the notion that Indians were *in any way* more evolved than anyone else on this planet. The first thing that shocked me was the almost *instantaneous* way that the Indians I worked with bagged another Indian upon meeting him or her for the first time. All it took was hearing the name. From that everyone *instantly* knew what religion the person was, and if Hindu, what caste. And their attitude towards the person shifted equally instantly, based on that religion or caste. A newbie would join the group, and everyone would be friendly and outgoing, and then they'd hear his name. At that point about half of the room would move away from the newbie and go back to their seats, and never speak to the newbie again except in the necessary course of business. I got to sit in those rooms and hear how these guys, be they Muslim, Brahmin, Kshatriya or whatever talked about women, and the very *different* ways they talked about Western women (hos, the lot of them) and Indian women (either saints or hos, depending upon their religion or caste). Lemme tell you, *that* was a real education. I got to sit there and listen to the Brahmins brag about how a group of 10-15 of them had gotten together the night before and kicked the shit out of a Kshatriya guy who had dared to ask out the sister of one of the Brahmins. They joked about how long he'd spend in the hospital. This happened more than once. I got to sit there and listen to some of these guys talk about how they were being taken to the cleaners *by their own relatives*, and their sense of powerlessness about being able to do anything about it, because
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
Turq, Nice writing, but that was definitely not an Edg-style piece -- ain't no one can do my thang -- watch my red silk baggy pants as I shuttle sideways -- can't touch this. http://youtube.com/watch?v=EMzoBkaFxh4 And I think the caste system is a wonderful concept for social structure!! If only it worked! It's like communism -- works only on paper, and in real life, humans tweak any system self-servingly. Same deal on capitalism or TM-ism. The Tang of life is mixed with swamp water. Got a system? -- just add humans and see if you can drink the fizz. The dogma goes like this: The caste concept is that God has one incarnate into a field of life wherein one is given a precisely tuned educational plan -- an evolutionary karmic process to maximize one's growth. The wisdom of God is assumed to know one's exact next lesson and to not involve the soul with advanced lessons that are scheduled for later. The higher castes should see the lower castes as children who need nurturing and need and deserve respect for their manifesting destines -- after all, God is authoring all of us, and whatever person He creates is a bombastic complexity of cosmic depth -- you know, that old infinite correlation thingy. Ain't no such thing as a lesser being -- just beings with lessons to learn. That's the dogma. Despite how it really turns out when used by egos, there's no proscriptive religious call for hating anyone -- especially since in the namaste greeting is universal in India. I started out as an elementary special education teacher 40 years ago, and I'll tell you this: the least endowed kid had as much emotional investment in life, had as many hopes and dreams and plans, had as big a passion to meet destiny -- as EVERYONE I'VE EVER MET. Yet, they needed a special educational structure to thrive and grow. There's a bravery to have taken on the karma of mental limitations -- it should be respected as a mythic journey that will culture a heart to have deep compassion for the blinders-on, locked-in, perspectives that such a fate entails. These kids were noble to me for the battles they fought; one is completely humbled in their presence. You there, reading these words, yeah you, would YOU volunteer to be eight years old, Latino, with a 45 IQ and then go out on the playground where all the other kids know you're in the short-bus class? Talk about an ego challenge!! Look at Simon Cowell's and Ryan Seacrest's slumped, broken spirits on American Idol the other day when they were in a refugee camp in Africa -- they could not gainsay the travail, could not bear to see these incredible feats of bravery -- bravery seen in as simple a format as an orphaned 12 year old child taking care of his little sister in a cardboard box hut located in a swamp of excrement and awash with thousands of stressed-out, next-door deviants of every sort. When a higher caste person looks upon any lesser caste and does not recognize this heroism, then that person, in fact, is failing to rise up to the responsibilities of his caste and is sinning -- sinning egregiously. It's not the caste system. It's a mother hugging with total love her children as she sweetly intones the litanies of hate for that child to accept and espouse. It's a father shouting wildly in glee when his kid fights a bully on the playground instead of trying to understand the bully and encouraging his kid to try to see his own participation in creating the drama. It's having a rebel flag on the roof top of The General. Hey, ask any Red-stater if they love Democracy. Then ask them what they think of the fact that the democratic process in the Palestinian Gulag voted in the terrorists! Same deal with the caste system. It's about the people. I'm reminded of Maharishi's supposed comment about the Arabs: First time on two feet. That was a racist statement, right? But, it was also a correlative noting that, despite the Bill of Rights, all men are born unequal, and society must deal with the vagaries of each person's abilities. The caste system is just one answer to this challenge, and the use of it, like the use of communism by the Russian Mafia, like the use of democracy by Hamas, is fraught with cognitive frictions as the actions of individuals fail to uphold the righteousness of the system. Don't blame the caste system. Blame Maharishi for teaching us all that Rajas are worth their weight in gold, but if anyone's been touched by Amma then they are unclean and unacceptable for the TM society. That's liquid racism injected straight into our cerebral cortex. It's about imperialism not im-pure-ism. Any system can ruined by those seeking power over others. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, because I have some free time this afternoon, I'm going to take advantage of that fact and riff, Curtis-style or Edg-style, on my feelings about those of the Indian persuasion and why I feel that
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
Turq, Nice writing, but that was definitely not an Edg-style piece -- ain't no one can do my thang -- watch my red silk baggy pants as I shuttle sideways -- can't touch this. http://youtube.com/watch?v=EMzoBkaFxh4 And I think the caste system is a wonderful concept for social structure!! If only it worked! It's like communism -- works only on paper, and in real life, humans tweak any system self-servingly. Same deal on capitalism or TM-ism. The Tang of life is mixed with swamp water. Got a system? -- just add humans and see if you can drink the fizz. The dogma goes like this: The caste concept is that God has one incarnate into a field of life wherein one is given a precisely tuned educational plan -- an evolutionary karmic process to maximize one's growth. The wisdom of God is assumed to know one's exact next lesson and to not involve the soul with advanced lessons that are scheduled for later. The higher castes should see the lower castes as children who need nurturing and need and deserve respect for their manifesting destines -- after all, God is authoring all of us, and whatever person He creates is a bombastic complexity of cosmic depth -- you know, that old infinite correlation thingy. Ain't no such thing as a lesser being -- just beings with lessons to learn. That's the dogma. Despite how it really turns out when used by egos, there's no proscriptive religious call for hating anyone -- especially since in the namaste greeting is universal in India. I started out as an elementary special education teacher 40 years ago, and I'll tell you this: the least endowed kid had as much emotional investment in life, had as many hopes and dreams and plans, had as big a passion to meet destiny -- as EVERYONE I'VE EVER MET. Yet, they needed a special educational structure to thrive and grow. There's a bravery to have taken on the karma of mental limitations -- it should be respected as a mythic journey that will culture a heart to have deep compassion for the blinders-on, locked-in, perspectives that such a fate entails. These kids were noble to me for the battles they fought; one is completely humbled in their presence. You there, reading these words, yeah you, would YOU volunteer to be eight years old, Latino, with a 45 IQ and then go out on the playground where all the other kids know you're in the short-bus class? Talk about an ego challenge!! Look at Simon Cowell's and Ryan Seacrest's slumped, broken spirits on American Idol the other day when they were in a refugee camp in Africa -- they could not gainsay the travail, could not bear to see these incredible feats of bravery -- bravery seen in as simple a format as an orphaned 12 year old child taking care of his little sister in a cardboard box hut located in a swamp of excrement and awash with thousands of stressed-out, next-door deviants of every sort. When a higher caste person looks upon any lesser caste and does not recognize this heroism, then that person, in fact, is failing to rise up to the responsibilities of his caste and is sinning -- sinning egregiously. It's not the caste system. It's a mother hugging with total love her children as she sweetly intones the litanies of hate for that child to accept and espouse. It's a father shouting wildly in glee when his kid fights a bully on the playground instead of trying to understand the bully and encouraging his kid to try to see his own participation in creating the drama. It's having a rebel flag on the roof top of The General. Hey, ask any Red-stater if they love Democracy. Then ask them what they think of the fact that the democratic process in the Palestinian Gulag voted in the terrorists! Same deal with the caste system. It's about the people. I'm reminded of Maharishi's supposed comment about the Arabs: First time on two feet. That was a racist statement, right? But, it was also a correlative noting that, despite the Bill of Rights, all men are born unequal, and society must deal with the vagaries of each person's abilities. The caste system is just one answer to this challenge, and the use of it, like the use of communism by the Russian Mafia, like the use of democracy by Hamas, is fraught with cognitive frictions as the actions of individuals fail to uphold the righteousness of the system. Don't blame the caste system. Blame Maharishi for teaching us all that Rajas are worth their weight in gold, but if anyone's been touched by Amma then they are unclean and unacceptable for the TM society. That's liquid racism injected straight into our cerebral cortex. It's about imperialism not im-pure-ism. Any system can ruined by those seeking power over others. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, because I have some free time this afternoon, I'm going to take advantage of that fact and riff, Curtis-style or Edg-style, on my feelings about those of the Indian persuasion and why I feel that
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
I've taught one version or another of a three-credit, college-level ethics course nineteen times during the past two decades, and at this point I am convinced I do not know what either 'ethics' or Ethics really is. One interesting comprehensive philosophical-ethical view that is making a comeback these days (mostly in Catholic circles, but not exclusively so) is natural law theory. Believe it or not, M.'s version is both deeper and better (or at least less intellectualistic) than all of that. In any event, we certainly do not teach ethics in K-12 here. Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Racism and Casteism in india is Socio-economic. The problem is both individual and collective. Personal Jealousy combined with Collective dogma becomes a potent Poison. Unfortunately, the educational system in India has not devoted enough time for the subject of 'ethics'. I believe the subject of Ethics should be taught right from Nursery School. Recent Activity 3 New Members 1 New Photos 1 New Files Visit Your Group Need traffic? Drive customers With search ads on Yahoo! Y! GeoCities Share Your Passion Join the web's lar- gest community. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. . - Ahhh...imagining that irresistible new car smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
No shortage of prudery in academe: http://chronicle.com/wiredcampus/index.php?id=2029
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: India, that's where. Sometimes the sheer backasswards idiocy of India just blows my mind.\ Although I agree with your point, I saw the tape and Gere was being a total dick. With his exposure to Indian culture, he has no excuse for bringing this on himself and to the chick he was mashing on. India court orders Richard Gere's arrest JAIPUR, India (Reuters) -- An Indian court ordered the arrest of Hollywood star Richard Gere on Thursday for kissing Bollywood actress Shilpa Shetty at an AIDS awareness event this month saying it was an obscene act committed in public. Gere's repeated kisses on Shetty's cheeks at an event to promote AIDS awareness in New Delhi sparked protests in some parts of India, mostly by Hindu vigilante groups, who saw it as an outrage against her modesty and an affront to Indian culture. The order by a court in the northern city of Jaipur came in response to a complaint by a local lawyer. The judge watched a video recording of Gere kissing Shetty and found him guilty of violating Indian laws against public obscenity, the lawyer, Poonam Chand Bhandari, said. The court also summoned Shilpa Shetty to appear on May 5, Bhandari said, adding that Gere was also ordered to be arrested. Gere can be sent to jail for up to three months or fined or both for the crime if he is arrested. He is not in India now but can be held if he visits the country again. The Hollywood star is a devout Buddhist and a vocal supporter of the Tibetan cause and visits India frequently to meet the Dalai Lama, who lives in exile in northern India. He is also involved with charities looking after HIV-infected people and orphans, as well as AIDS prevention groups in the country. Groups of men had burned and kicked straw effigies of Gere and Shetty in sporadic protests across the country after newspapers published the picture of the kiss on their front pages and TV channels aired visuals of the event. Shetty, the winner of the Celebrity Big Brother reality TV show in Britain this year had said the kiss may have gone a little overboard but it was not obscene and the protests made India look regressive. She said Gere was only re-enacting his moves from the film Shall We Dance to entertain the audience at the AIDS event and communicate in a Bollywood style as he did not speak Hindi. Many commentators had subsequently expressed their unhappiness at what they said were fringe groups making a mountain of a harmless peck on the cheek.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: India, that's where. Sometimes the sheer backasswards idiocy of India just blows my mind.\ Although I agree with your point, I saw the tape and Gere was being a total dick. With his exposure to Indian culture, he has no excuse for bringing this on himself and to the chick he was mashing on. Haven't seen any video. But what is he supposed to do, pander to a hypocritical culture that doesn't allow kissing in public but that has one of the fastest-growing AIDS rates on the planet because of uncontrolled prostitution?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: India, that's where. Sometimes the sheer backasswards idiocy of India just blows my mind.\ Although I agree with your point, I saw the tape and Gere was being a total dick. With his exposure to Indian culture, he has no excuse for bringing this on himself and to the chick he was mashing on. Haven't seen any video. But what is he supposed to do, pander to a hypocritical culture that doesn't allow kissing in public but that has one of the fastest-growing AIDS rates on the planet because of uncontrolled prostitution? Sure, why not? There's no reason a person can't pander to (i.e., respect) cultural norms in one context while working to counter them and their negative effects in another, especially when not doing the former may arouse resistance to one's efforts toward the latter. The perfect is the enemy of the good.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
Here ya go. I agree with your point, but I also enjoy calling Richard Gere a dick. I'm pretty sure this wont help his cause. I don't think it would be pandering to lighten up on the old letch vibe a bit. It really wasn't fair to the chick. http://youtube.com/watch?v=pt23lqF-nM8 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: India, that's where. Sometimes the sheer backasswards idiocy of India just blows my mind.\ Although I agree with your point, I saw the tape and Gere was being a total dick. With his exposure to Indian culture, he has no excuse for bringing this on himself and to the chick he was mashing on. Haven't seen any video. But what is he supposed to do, pander to a hypocritical culture that doesn't allow kissing in public but that has one of the fastest-growing AIDS rates on the planet because of uncontrolled prostitution?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here ya go. I agree with your point, but I also enjoy calling Richard Gere a dick. I'm pretty sure this wont help his cause. I don't think it would be pandering to lighten up on the old letch vibe a bit. It really wasn't fair to the chick. What I saw (couldn't hear any sound in this noisy cafe if there was sound) was the chick dragging an obviously reluctant Gere up on stage and not letting him go, all to help her career (she won a silly TV talent contest, ferchrissakes) and him playing along, and then giving her career a bit more of a boost than she expected. She'll ride this tempest in a pisspot all the way to the Bank Of Bollywood. Face it -- this furor is because of Hindu racism, pure and simple. They didn't like seeing a white guy kissing one of their own, especially one that they jack off to photos of every night before get- ting up the next morning and pretending to be pure little Brahmins. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
In a message dated 4/26/2007 1:56:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com) , curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here ya go. I agree with your point, but I also enjoy calling Richard Gere a dick. I'm pretty sure this wont help his cause. I don't think it would be pandering to lighten up on the old letch vibe a bit. It really wasn't fair to the chick. What I saw (couldn't hear any sound in this noisy cafe if there was sound) was the chick dragging an obviously reluctant Gere up on stage and not letting him go, all to help her career (she won a silly TV talent contest, ferchrissakes) and him playing along, and then giving her career a bit more of a boost than she expected. She'll ride this tempest in a pisspot all the way to the Bank Of Bollywood. Face it -- this furor is because of Hindu racism, pure and simple. They didn't like seeing a white guy kissing one of their own, especially one that they jack off to photos of every night before get- ting up the next morning and pretending to be pure little Brahmins. :-) I hear you no-reply. We finally agree for a change. Thank you for your last reply in wishing me a fast healing with my present personal circumstances. Lsoma. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
Heard of this old Joke in India.?? What's the difference between India and America.? In America, Kissing is allowed in public, but not Pissing, In India, Pissing is allowed in public, but not Kissing. TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:18:43 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from? India, that's where. Sometimes the sheer backasswards idiocy of India just blows my mind.\ Haven't seen any video. But what is he supposed to do, pander to a hypocritical culture that doesn't allow kissing in public but that has one of the fastest-growing AIDS rates on the planet because of uncontrolled prostitution? - Ahhh...imagining that irresistible new car smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
In a message dated 4/26/2007 1:31:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Here ya go. I agree with your point, but I also enjoy calling Richard Gere a dick. I'm pretty sure this wont help his cause. I don't think it would be pandering to lighten up on the old letch vibe a bit. It really wasn't fair to the chick. _http://youtube.http://youhttp://youhtt_ (http://youtube.com/watch?v=pt23lqF-nM8) --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com) , TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com) , curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com) , TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: India, that's where. Sometimes the sheer backasswards idiocy of India just blows my mind.\ Although I agree with your point, I saw the tape and Gere was being a total dick. With his exposure to Indian culture, he has no excuse for bringing this on himself and to the chick he was mashing on. Haven't seen any video. But what is he supposed to do, pander to a hypocritical culture that doesn't allow kissing in public but that has one of the fastest-growing AIDS rates on the planet because of uncontrolled prostitution? I agree. The AIDS and prostitution problem is worth talking about and just maybe Richard was trying to force the issue because no one is listening in India which hides sexuality as if no one is having sex in India. There are over 30,000 babies being born a day in India (Maybe more) .Somebody is having sex And now, issuing a warrant for his arrest. America is not perfect or any other country for that matter but India has been hiding out in the corner for so long it is time to open up to some ideas or ideologies that come from the West. I visit the Lakshmi Temple here in Ashland, MA and have great respect for their culture so I am speaking from some experience. When I first saw the clip with Richard Gere I was laughing so hard. Indians are making a lot of money in America and America has given a lot of its resources to India. India should be thankful and leave Richard Gere alone. Love and Light. Lsoma. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
At first glance I thought that Gere was unfortunate to be involved in this case of a criminal kiss. On second thought, I believe he fully knew the culture in India. He performed the kiss to make a statement in India, and in so doing to the world. He got the message through which is the awareness for AIDS. He has also raised the hypocrisy of the Indian laws which uphold puritanical mores, while ignoring the cause and suffering of AIDS. According to the latest news, he conveniently left India and is now on the lam from the Indian authorities. Regards, John R. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heard of this old Joke in India.?? What's the difference between India and America.? In America, Kissing is allowed in public, but not Pissing, In India, Pissing is allowed in public, but not Kissing. TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:18:43 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from? India, that's where. Sometimes the sheer backasswards idiocy of India just blows my mind.\ Haven't seen any video. But what is he supposed to do, pander to a hypocritical culture that doesn't allow kissing in public but that has one of the fastest-growing AIDS rates on the planet because of uncontrolled prostitution? - Ahhh...imagining that irresistible new car smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
You think Indian Chicks would be jacking off to Richard Gere's Photo.?? TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:51:40 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from? What I saw (couldn't hear any sound in this noisy cafe if there was sound) was the chick dragging an obviously reluctant Gere up on stage and not letting him go, all to help her career (she won a silly TV talent contest, ferchrissakes) and him playing along, and then giving her career a bit more of a boost than she expected. She'll ride this tempest in a pisspot all the way to the Bank Of Bollywood. Face it -- this furor is because of Hindu racism, pure and simple. They didn't like seeing a white guy kissing one of their own, especially one that they jack off to photos of every night before get- ting up the next morning and pretending to be pure little Brahmins. :-) - Ahhh...imagining that irresistible new car smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Here ya go. I agree with your point, but I also enjoy calling Richard Gere a dick. I'm pretty sure this wont help his cause. I don't think it would be pandering to lighten up on the old letch vibe a bit. It really wasn't fair to the chick. What I saw (couldn't hear any sound in this noisy cafe if there was sound) was the chick dragging an obviously reluctant Gere up on stage I saw no reluctance on Gere's part in that clip. and not letting him go, all to help her career (she won a silly TV talent contest, ferchrissakes) and him playing along, and then giving her career a bit more of a boost than she expected. She'll ride this tempest in a pisspot all the way to the Bank Of Bollywood. If it does give her career a boost rather than ruin it, I guess the Indians can't be that prudish, eh? Oh, wait, no, it's racism, not prudishness: Face it -- this furor is because of Hindu racism, pure and simple. They didn't like seeing a white guy kissing one of their own, especially one that they jack off to photos of every night before get- ting up the next morning and pretending to be pure little Brahmins. :-) Right, it's *Hindus* who are racist.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
TurquoiseB wrote: They didn't like seeing a white guy kissing one of their own, especially one that they jack off to photos of every night before get- ting up the next morning and pretending to be pure little Brahmins. :-) Maybe you're the racist - lots of Indian Brahmins are of Caucasian stock, the original Aryan speakers. What an idiot.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
TurquoiseB wrote: Face it -- this furor is because of Hindu racism, pure and simple. They didn't like seeing a white guy kissing one of their own, especially one that they jack off to photos of every night before get- ting up the next morning and pretending to be pure little Brahmins. :-) Judy wrote: Right, it's *Hindus* who are racist. Shilpa Shetty, one of the most popular actresses in India, hardly needs a career boost from Richard Gere. Shilpa is a four-time Filmfare Award-nominated Indian film actress, model, AIDS activist and PETA supporter. Maybe Uncle Barry needs to get out more - he seems to be totally unaware of the recent scandal involving racism and Ms Shetty. Maybe Barry spends too much time in bars and cafes instead of out in the real world. How embarrasing for Barry. During her time in Celebrity Big Brother, Shetty was allegedly a target of racism and bullying by other housemates. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shilpa_Shetty
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ever wonder where the prudery in the TMO came from?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Here ya go. I agree with your point, but I also enjoy calling Richard Gere a dick. I'm pretty sure this wont help his cause. I don't think it would be pandering to lighten up on the old letch vibe a bit. It really wasn't fair to the chick. What I saw (couldn't hear any sound in this noisy cafe if there was sound) was the chick dragging an obviously reluctant Gere up on stage I saw no reluctance on Gere's part in that clip. and not letting him go, all to help her career (she won a silly TV talent contest, ferchrissakes) and him playing along, and then giving her career a bit more of a boost than she expected. She'll ride this tempest in a pisspot all the way to the Bank Of Bollywood. If it does give her career a boost rather than ruin it, I guess the Indians can't be that prudish, eh? Oh, wait, no, it's racism, not prudishness: Face it -- this furor is because of Hindu racism, pure and simple. They didn't like seeing a white guy kissing one of their own, especially one that they jack off to photos of every night before get- ting up the next morning and pretending to be pure little Brahmins. :-) Right, it's *Hindus* who are racist. There are Hells Angels in Europe, so perhaps Barry could start a chapter of the KKK in France. Then all of the 'colored folk' could bend over and kiss his lily white ass.
