[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ 
 wrote: snip
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardatrwilliamsdotus 
   richard@ wrote: snip

 Do you prefer being awakened to not being having everything just happen is 
 relaxing, but sometimes I wonder how much creativity and inventiveness would 
 then occur. Or does the creativity just happen too?

The syntax of the above sentence is a bit confusing but:

As far as I can tell creativity remains the same. Everything is the same. That 
is what the term 'infinite correlation' means. Life is more relaxed, one does 
not incessantly dream on things to come, but there are always situation where 
one has to think ahead and do some planning. A clear awakening is really a 
beginning, life starts over because the ideas one thought about life and the 
world etc., are swept away, their reality was bogus, the connexion between 
thought and experience is seen from a different perspective. It is a 
paradoxical shift because life just goes on as it had. One has thoughts, but 
they are not intense, focused or controlling. I suppose this is what 'bliss' 
is, a sort of pervasive evenness, and not much sense of inner versus outer 
being essentially different. But if you bump your head on the corner of a 
cupboard door, it still hurts like hell. Immortality is not a personal feature 
of existence.

I do think that those driven by desires who are also creative may produce more 
because what they think is much more important to them than to someone whose 
personal sense of importance and worth dissolves into the ocean of being. One 
cannot get on a path of enlightenment without first not being enlightened, and 
that is the normal state most of us have coming into this life; its one of the 
things that makes life interesting, trying to figure out what is going on. 

Ideology blunts creativity because it restricts its flow along specific lines, 
creative people always have ideas that transcend those restrictions. Along that 
creative channel, they are free, but the rest of their life might be a total 
mess. 

Perhaps what we desire is that sense freedom for every aspect of our life. We 
will not all become like Mozart or Einstein, but will naturally find our 
strengths and play to those, but no longer be disturbed that we cannot do 
everything on the personal level to perfection. Perfection is seeing and 
intuitively understanding how the world of our experience, inner and outer, 
fits together, how everything is connected and is essentially the same.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[Susan]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius 
anartaxius@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius 
  anartaxius@ wrote: snip
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
   curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardatrwilliamsdotus 
richard@ wrote: snip
 
  Do you prefer being awakened to not being having everything just happen is 
  relaxing, but sometimes I wonder how much creativity and inventiveness 
  would then occur. Or does the creativity just happen too?
 
 The syntax of the above sentence is a bit confusing but:
 
 As far as I can tell creativity remains the same. Everything is the same. 
 That is what the term 'infinite correlation' means. Life is more relaxed, one 
 does not incessantly dream on things to come, but there are always situation 
 where one has to think ahead and do some planning. A clear awakening is 
 really a beginning, life starts over because the ideas one thought about life 
 and the world etc., are swept away, their reality was bogus, the connexion 
 between thought and experience is seen from a different perspective. It is a 
 paradoxical shift because life just goes on as it had. One has thoughts, but 
 they are not intense, focused or controlling. I suppose this is what 'bliss' 
 is, a sort of pervasive evenness, and not much sense of inner versus outer 
 being essentially different. But if you bump your head on the corner of a 
 cupboard door, it still hurts like hell. Immortality is not a personal 
 feature of existence.
 
 I do think that those driven by desires who are also creative may produce 
 more because what they think is much more important to them than to someone 
 whose personal sense of importance and worth dissolves into the ocean of 
 being. One cannot get on a path of enlightenment without first not being 
 enlightened, and that is the normal state most of us have coming into this 
 life; its one of the things that makes life interesting, trying to figure out 
 what is going on. 
 
 Ideology blunts creativity because it restricts its flow along specific 
 lines, creative people always have ideas that transcend those restrictions. 
 Along that creative channel, they are free, but the rest of their life might 
 be a total mess. 
 
 Perhaps what we desire is that sense freedom for every aspect of our life. We 
 will not all become like Mozart or Einstein, but will naturally find our 
 strengths and play to those, but no longer be disturbed that we cannot do 
 everything on the personal level to perfection. Perfection is seeing and 
 intuitively understanding how the world of our experience, inner and outer, 
 fits together, how everything is connected and is essentially the same.

Thanks for the reply.  You hit on exactly what has been of concern to me lately 
- that being awakened might lead to just being and a reduction in action and 
creativity and inventiveness because thoughts quiet down and the chatter about 
self and doing and accomplishing fades.  I guess I wondered where the impetus 
to act then comes from.  I assume it comes from the environment and from where 
it always came from anyway. The difference is that  the assumption of being the 
cause and the motivator of those thoughts and actions is gone, but everything 
continues on without that misconception of being the doer.

The thing that triggered this quesiton was seeing on YouTube and BatGap some 
interviews with apaprently awakened people who really seem not to plan much 
ahead  Instead, they saya that they answer questions as they come up, truly 
taking it as. it comes.  The being in control and wanting to manage things 
and learn about and discuss ideas part of me got annoyed with that.

Thanks, again.  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[richardatrwilliamsdotus]

sparaig:
 one of my favorite quotes from MMY:
 
 Spiritual and Material Values
 
 Every experience has its level of physiology, and 
 so unbounded awareness has its own level of physiology
 which can be measured. Every aspect of life is integrated 
 and connected with every other phase. When we talk of 
 scientific measurements, it does not take away from the 
 spiritual experience. We are not responsible for those 
 times when spiritual experience was thought of as 
 metaphysical. Everything is physical. Consciousness is 
 the product of the functioning of the brain. Talking of
 scientific measurements is no damage to that wholeness 
 of life which is present everywhere and which begins to 
 be lived when the physiology is taking on a particular 
 form. This is our understanding about spirituality: it 
 is not on the level of faith --it is on the level of 
 blood and bone and flesh and activity. It is measurable.
 
 -Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
 
There is an element of faith in accepting the premise that
there is such a spiritual state - enlightenment. The
enlightenment tradition in India was founded by Shakya the
Muni, the first historical yogin (circa 563 BCE). 

But, I'm not convinced that enlightenment has a set of 
physical corollaries that manifests itself in the body 
- an enlightened person might have the same physical 
attributes as an un-enlightened person. 

Enlightenment is a psycological experience - an awareness 
of being aware - it's just a mental outlook.

Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After 
enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. - Hsin Hsin Ming 
 
   It is a conditioning of the nervous system.
  
  Enlightenment doesn't have anything to do with the 
  human nervous system.  If it did, we could see it 
  and measure it and replicate it. 
  
  The enlightened state is a state of mind; a state 
  where we percieve reality as it really is. 
  
  Enlightenment is a mental state - there is no 
  change in the physical body. Enlightenment is a 
  metaphysical state.
  
  The historical buddha is said to have attained 
  enlightenment, but he had a bad back until the day 
  he passed away. 
  
  Enlightenment ...is the state of residing in such 
  great understanding and depth, that no matter what 
  life throws your way, you are at peace with it, you 
  are able to say, That's OK, no problem. 
  - Zen Buddhist Master Charlotte Joko Beck
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[curtisdeltablues]

Your response really makes me think Richard.  I am reading a book that explores 
this question from a slightly different angle.  It is called, The Mind and the 
Brain, neuroplasticity and the power of mental force. by Schwarty and Beggley.

It discusses a theory of how the mind influences the brain's functioning.  I'll 
just paste in the book description from Amazon which got me interested because 
I am not deep enough into it to speak about it.  But thanks for an deepening 
the question about this relationship in your response.

Here is a the key excerpt:

This major discovery is at the core of The Mind and the Brain: that through 
the power of thought, by focusing attention, human beings can use their own 
minds to change their brains. 

Here is the whole quote:

The greatest scientific advances are never the result of strict adherence to 
convention. Often it takes an innovative maverick, someone willing to see 
things differently while possessing the determination and intelligence to 
substantiate his challenges to conventional wisdom. Jeffrey M. Schwartz, M.D., 
a leading neuroscientist and Research Professor of Psychiatry at the UCLA 
School of Medicine, an international authority on brain diseases and author of 
the definitive work on obsessive compulsive disorder, Brain Lock, has defied 
convention again in his new book, The Mind and the Brain: Neuroplasticity and 
the Power of Mental Force. The Mind and the Brain, written with Sharon Begley, 
formerly Newsweek's senior science writer and now science columnist for The 
Wall Street Journal, is a work as profound as it is provocative: a book that 
gives substantial proof that - contrary to popular scientific belief - the 
entity we commonly call the mind has the power to change the makeup of the 
physical brain. For years, there has been a division between the assumptions of 
hard science 'which contended that the brain functioned essentially as a 
machine' and our daily human experience, which seems to suggest that the mind 
is something different from the physical brain, a force we are capable of 
harnessing for our benefit. This was a conflict that always bothered Jeffrey 
Schwartz, who was responsible for the revolutionary Four Steps therapy that has 
helped patients around the world battle the effects of obsessive-compulsive 
disorder (OCD). His therapy was grounded in cognitive-behavioural principles, 
which drew on a patient's own awareness of his state of mind, and involved the 
patient directly in his own therapy. Combining the revelations of more than two 
decades of research with a progressive approach influenced by the Buddhist 
principle of mindful awareness, Schwartz's therapy was wildly successful but 
it also opened a door into a much more significant revelation: while reviewing 
his patients' brain scans, Schwartz discovered that their self-directed therapy 
was actually changing the wiring of their brains. This major discovery is at 
the core of The Mind and the Brain: that through the power of thought, by 
focusing attention, human beings can use their own minds to change their 
brains. The scientific implications of this discovery are manifold: victims of 
stroke may be able to use the discovery to help reassume command of their 
bodies and lives, and psychiatrists treating patients with mental disorders may 
be able to decrease their patients' reliance on psychiatric drugs. As a 
therapeutic advance, then, The Mind and the Brain offers a paradigm shift that 
promises new treatments for conditions from dyslexia to depression. Schwartz's 
discovery may amount to the most conclusive scientific evidence to date of the 
existence of free will 'that is, the power of human beings to take an active 
role in the choices they make. In the book Schwartz points accusingly at the 
moral vacuum created by the old, materialistic worldview and raises questions 
of personal responsibility in a new light. Infused with the insatiable 
curiosity of a scientific trailblazer and the passion of a crusader, The Mind 
and the Brain is a daring and groundbreaking work of research and vision - one 
whose conclusions are sure to make waves within the scientific community, and 
to affect profoundly the human race's understanding of itself.




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardatrwilliamsdotus richard@... 
wrote:

 
 
 sparaig:
  one of my favorite quotes from MMY:
  
  Spiritual and Material Values
  
  Every experience has its level of physiology, and 
  so unbounded awareness has its own level of physiology
  which can be measured. Every aspect of life is integrated 
  and connected with every other phase. When we talk of 
  scientific measurements, it does not take away from the 
  spiritual experience. We are not responsible for those 
  times when spiritual experience was thought of as 
  metaphysical. Everything is physical. Consciousness is 
  the product of the functioning of the brain. Talking of
  scientific measurements is no damage 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[richardatrwilliamsdotus]

curtisdeltablues:
 Your response really makes me think Richard.  

 I am reading a book that explores this question 
 from a slightly different angle.  It is called, 
 The Mind and the Brain, neuroplasticity and the 
 power of mental force. by Schwarty and Beggley.
 
Thanks for the info.

Apparently, there's no difference between being 
'enlightened' and being un-enlightened, except for
one's POV. I first started thinking about this after 
reading some of the old Zen koans or riddles. Dogen, 
the founder of the Soto Zen sect in Japan, compiled 
many koans in the Shobogenzo. 

According to Shunryu Suzuki, a Soto master, the main 
practice of Zen is 'just sitting'. This just sitting 
IS enlightenment. That's it! 

You are not going to get any more enlightenment than 
you are going to get. So, just stop striving, just 
Be - be aware of being aware.

A monk told Joshu: 'I have just entered the monastery. 
Please teach me.' 

Joshu asked: 'Have you eaten your rice?' 

The monk replied: 'I have eaten.' 

Joshu said: 'Then you had better wash your bowl.' 

At that moment the monk was enlightened!  

Joshu Washes the Bowl:
http://www.ibiblio.org/zen/gateless-gate/7.html

Reccomended reading:

'The Zen Experience'
by Thomas Hoover
New American Library, 1980
http://tinyurl.com/d7allmz

The best history of Zen ever written. - Library Journal 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardatrwilliamsdotus richard@... 
wrote:

 
 
 curtisdeltablues:
  Your response really makes me think Richard.  
 
  I am reading a book that explores this question 
  from a slightly different angle.  It is called, 
  The Mind and the Brain, neuroplasticity and the 
  power of mental force. by Schwarty and Beggley.
  
 Thanks for the info.
 
 Apparently, there's no difference between being 
 'enlightened' and being un-enlightened, except for
 one's POV. I first started thinking about this after 
 reading some of the old Zen koans or riddles. Dogen, 
 the founder of the Soto Zen sect in Japan, compiled 
 many koans in the Shobogenzo. 
 
 According to Shunryu Suzuki, a Soto master, the main 
 practice of Zen is 'just sitting'. This just sitting 
 IS enlightenment. That's it! 

Very interesting.  I am not sure. I think the term enlightenment is one of 
those emotionally laden terms like God that actually covers many different 
states of mind.  If we just isolate the state of awareness itself from all the 
magical claims then I can see the case for it being a shift of attention.

But it also occurs to me that intense practice of meditation does shift your 
attention so that it can stay that way pretty persistently. And it wouldn't 
surprise me if it has a physical shift of how the brain is communicating with 
itself.  I suspect that long meditation practice can adjust how the brain 
functions between its parts, and this has profound implications for our sense 
of self which is created by this interaction. (I know reductionism again, but 
there it is.)

 
 You are not going to get any more enlightenment than 
 you are going to get. So, just stop striving, just 
 Be - be aware of being aware.

We have an odd agreement in this phrase Richard.  I like to say that I am as 
enlightened up as I need to be to enjoy my life.  I'm not hungry for more of an 
internal shift.  From moment to moment I might want to tweak it a bit and use 
meditation and exercise as one of the tools.  I can imagine how you might 
identify with this term as useful, even though it doesn't match my view of 
myself.

And there is a serious problem I see with the lack of distinction between 
heightened states of awareness and mental problems.  We are seeing that issue 
being played out on this board sometimes.  And it is no service to the person 
being tormented to egg their delusions on.

But the kind of quiet state of awareness shift you seem to be describing does 
have some real appeal for me as a POV.  I don't know how it grew into so much 
baggage and hype though.  What is with all of that sidhis nonsense?

 
 A monk told Joshu: 'I have just entered the monastery. 
 Please teach me.' 
 
 Joshu asked: 'Have you eaten your rice?' 
 
 The monk replied: 'I have eaten.' 
 
 Joshu said: 'Then you had better wash your bowl.' 
 
 At that moment the monk was enlightened! 

I had a friend who went to one of those Western Advaita guys to sit for a 
week.  Sam Harris is a fan of this.  In time his mind kind of wound down and he 
was aware of whatever state it was that this guy was guiding them all to, some 
version of ineffable wholeness blah de blah de blah.  When I am in the middle 
of a lake in my kayak I shift into something that might use these words.  Or 
right now if I notice it.  But to have it really dominate and push all the 
other activity out takes a bit of dedication and practice.  But is it really so 
freak'n great that it warrants that time?  It has been a long time since I 
defined my life in terms of internal states.  Now I am interested in focusing 
whatever state I have in creative expression. 

I was talking with a teacher the other day who is collaborating on a course for 
teachers with me about how I used to really notice having to get up early as we 
did for this meeting.  It used to affect my sense of who I was even, I just 
couldn't be as aware.  Now we both agreed that it makes almost no difference to 
our functioning to be tired.  We just show up and start chopping.  And it isn't 
that we were claiming some state of enlightenment, we looked at it in terms of 
one of the bennies of getting older. I was such a wimp as a young man, always 
fussing about my state of consciousness and my need to cultivate it with lots 
of whatever. But a lot of it is my shift of attention, I really don't care what 
awareness I have while I chop.

So I can relate to your quotes and POV.  I haven't integrated it with all the 
possible variations of what we are lumping into with the word enlightenment.  
But I think you are on to something important here and will read anything else 
you care to write about it. 





 
 
 Joshu Washes the Bowl:
 http://www.ibiblio.org/zen/gateless-gate/7.html
 
 Reccomended reading:
 
 'The Zen Experience'
 by Thomas Hoover
 New American Library, 1980
 http://tinyurl.com/d7allmz
 
 The best history of Zen ever written. - Library Journal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardatrwilliamsdotus richard@ 
 wrote:
 
  
  
  curtisdeltablues:
   Your response really makes me think Richard.  
  
   I am reading a book that explores this question 
   from a slightly different angle.  It is called, 
   The Mind and the Brain, neuroplasticity and the 
   power of mental force. by Schwarty and Beggley.
   
  Thanks for the info.
  
  Apparently, there's no difference between being 
  'enlightened' and being un-enlightened, except for
  one's POV. I first started thinking about this after 
  reading some of the old Zen koans or riddles. Dogen, 
  the founder of the Soto Zen sect in Japan, compiled 
  many koans in the Shobogenzo. 
  
  According to Shunryu Suzuki, a Soto master, the main 
  practice of Zen is 'just sitting'. This just sitting 
  IS enlightenment. That's it! 
 
 Very interesting.  I am not sure. I think the term enlightenment is one of 
 those emotionally laden terms like God that actually covers many different 
 states of mind.  If we just isolate the state of awareness itself from all 
 the magical claims then I can see the case for it being a shift of attention.
 
 But it also occurs to me that intense practice of meditation does shift your 
 attention so that it can stay that way pretty persistently. And it wouldn't 
 surprise me if it has a physical shift of how the brain is communicating with 
 itself.  I suspect that long meditation practice can adjust how the brain 
 functions between its parts, and this has profound implications for our sense 
 of self which is created by this interaction. (I know reductionism again, but 
 there it is.)

Enlightenment is a loaded term. There is a shift of experience. Everything 
remains the same. Nothing happens. Everything is like it was before, even 
before one started on a path. Seeking stops. What in hell is going to happen 
next? The seeking was an illusion. Except when we are seeking, we think there 
is some truth to what we are anticipating. Anticipation has nothing to do with 
being here and now. That is why we are not here and now. You cannot make a mood 
of this. It will be a surprise, unanticipated. Learning to live with this 
experience is a whole new world, because everything you thought it was going to 
be was not what it is. Realisation is just another passing moment, replaced by 
whatever is going on.

  You are not going to get any more enlightenment than 
  you are going to get. So, just stop striving, just 
  Be - be aware of being aware.
 
 We have an odd agreement in this phrase Richard.  I like to say that I am as 
 enlightened up as I need to be to enjoy my life.  I'm not hungry for more of 
 an internal shift.  From moment to moment I might want to tweak it a bit and 
 use meditation and exercise as one of the tools.  I can imagine how you might 
 identify with this term as useful, even though it doesn't match my view of 
 myself.
 
 And there is a serious problem I see with the lack of distinction between 
 heightened states of awareness and mental problems.  We are seeing that issue 
 being played out on this board sometimes.  And it is no service to the person 
 being tormented to egg their delusions on.
 
 But the kind of quiet state of awareness shift you seem to be describing does 
 have some real appeal for me as a POV.  I don't know how it grew into so much 
 baggage and hype though.  What is with all of that sidhis nonsense?
 
  
  A monk told Joshu: 'I have just entered the monastery. 
  Please teach me.' 
  
  Joshu asked: 'Have you eaten your rice?' 
  
  The monk replied: 'I have eaten.' 
  
  Joshu said: 'Then you had better wash your bowl.' 
  
  At that moment the monk was enlightened! 
 
 I had a friend who went to one of those Western Advaita guys to sit for a 
 week.  Sam Harris is a fan of this.  In time his mind kind of wound down and 
 he was aware of whatever state it was that this guy was guiding them all to, 
 some version of ineffable wholeness blah de blah de blah.  When I am in the 
 middle of a lake in my kayak I shift into something that might use these 
 words.  Or right now if I notice it.  But to have it really dominate and push 
 all the other activity out takes a bit of dedication and practice.  But is it 
 really so freak'n great that it warrants that time?  It has been a long time 
 since I defined my life in terms of internal states.  Now I am interested in 
 focusing whatever state I have in creative expression. 
 
 I was talking with a teacher the other day who is collaborating on a course 
 for teachers with me about how I used to really notice having to get up early 
 as we did for this meeting.  It used to affect my sense of who I was even, I 
 just couldn't be as aware.  Now we both agreed that it makes almost no 
 difference to our functioning to be tired.  We just show up and start 
 chopping.  And it isn't that we were claiming 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[richardatrwilliamsdotus]

zarzari:
 Maharishi came from one of the most conservative 
 traditions in India. He would never teach us the 
 Gayatri mantra, would he?

The recitation of the Gayatri isn't neccesary in the 
practice of TM. That's because the Gayatri isn't 
considered a bija mantra in the Tantric Tradition. 
Since MMY, via SBS, follows the Sri Vidya, only bijas 
are used in TM meditation.

Sri Vidya consists of 'indestructible seed' syllables 
rather than words, so the bijas transcend such mundane 
considerations as semantic meaning. Accordingly, a 
bija-only mantra meditation is not merely esoteric 
but inherently superior! 

Thus the Vedic Gayatri is a lower form of the Sri 
Vidya. According to Sri Vidya, the Gayatri gains its 
esoteric signigicance only when it is interpreted as 
Sri Vidya bija mantra. 

Seed-syllables (bijasaras) are the purest form of 
mantra. They do not make a request or praise a God.

According to Brooks, the Gayatri cannot match Sri 
Vidya bijas because it is still in common language; 
it is Veda and mantra, but when transformed into 
the Sri Vidya bijas its greatness increases. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[Susan]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius 
anartaxius@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardatrwilliamsdotus richard@ 
  wrote:
  
   
   
   curtisdeltablues:
Your response really makes me think Richard.  
   
I am reading a book that explores this question 
from a slightly different angle.  It is called, 
The Mind and the Brain, neuroplasticity and the 
power of mental force. by Schwarty and Beggley.

   Thanks for the info.
   
   Apparently, there's no difference between being 
   'enlightened' and being un-enlightened, except for
   one's POV. I first started thinking about this after 
   reading some of the old Zen koans or riddles. Dogen, 
   the founder of the Soto Zen sect in Japan, compiled 
   many koans in the Shobogenzo. 
   
   According to Shunryu Suzuki, a Soto master, the main 
   practice of Zen is 'just sitting'. This just sitting 
   IS enlightenment. That's it! 
  
  Very interesting.  I am not sure. I think the term enlightenment is one of 
  those emotionally laden terms like God that actually covers many 
  different states of mind.  If we just isolate the state of awareness itself 
  from all the magical claims then I can see the case for it being a shift of 
  attention.
  
  But it also occurs to me that intense practice of meditation does shift 
  your attention so that it can stay that way pretty persistently. And it 
  wouldn't surprise me if it has a physical shift of how the brain is 
  communicating with itself.  I suspect that long meditation practice can 
  adjust how the brain functions between its parts, and this has profound 
  implications for our sense of self which is created by this interaction. (I 
  know reductionism again, but there it is.)
 
 Enlightenment is a loaded term. There is a shift of experience. Everything 
 remains the same. Nothing happens. Everything is like it was before, even 
 before one started on a path. Seeking stops. What in hell is going to happen 
 next? The seeking was an illusion. Except when we are seeking, we think there 
 is some truth to what we are anticipating. Anticipation has nothing to do 
 with being here and now. That is why we are not here and now. You cannot make 
 a mood of this. It will be a surprise, unanticipated. Learning to live with 
 this experience is a whole new world, because everything you thought it was 
 going to be was not what it is. 

Do you prefer being awakened to not being having everything just happen is 
relaxing, but sometimes I wonder how much creativity and inventiveness would 
then occur. Or does the creativity just happen too?

Realisation is just another passing moment, replaced by whatever is going on.
 
   You are not going to get any more enlightenment than 
   you are going to get. So, just stop striving, just 
   Be - be aware of being aware.
  
  We have an odd agreement in this phrase Richard.  I like to say that I am 
  as enlightened up as I need to be to enjoy my life.  I'm not hungry for 
  more of an internal shift.  From moment to moment I might want to tweak it 
  a bit and use meditation and exercise as one of the tools.  I can imagine 
  how you might identify with this term as useful, even though it doesn't 
  match my view of myself.
  
  And there is a serious problem I see with the lack of distinction between 
  heightened states of awareness and mental problems.  We are seeing that 
  issue being played out on this board sometimes.  And it is no service to 
  the person being tormented to egg their delusions on.
  
  But the kind of quiet state of awareness shift you seem to be describing 
  does have some real appeal for me as a POV.  I don't know how it grew into 
  so much baggage and hype though.  What is with all of that sidhis nonsense?
  
   
   A monk told Joshu: 'I have just entered the monastery. 
   Please teach me.' 
   
   Joshu asked: 'Have you eaten your rice?' 
   
   The monk replied: 'I have eaten.' 
   
   Joshu said: 'Then you had better wash your bowl.' 
   
   At that moment the monk was enlightened! 
  
  I had a friend who went to one of those Western Advaita guys to sit for a 
  week.  Sam Harris is a fan of this.  In time his mind kind of wound down 
  and he was aware of whatever state it was that this guy was guiding them 
  all to, some version of ineffable wholeness blah de blah de blah.  When I 
  am in the middle of a lake in my kayak I shift into something that might 
  use these words.  Or right now if I notice it.  But to have it really 
  dominate and push all the other activity out takes a bit of dedication and 
  practice.  But is it really so freak'n great that it warrants that time?  
  It has been a long time since I defined my life in terms of internal 
  states.  Now I am interested in focusing whatever state I have in creative 
  expression. 
  
  I was talking with a teacher the 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[authfriend]

Curtis, are you aware that Schwartz is a proponent of
Intelligent Design? According to Wikipedia, Schwartz
has signed the Discovery Institute's A Scientific Dissent
from Darwinism. The Discovery Institute promotes
the idea of Intelligent Design as a means of having
creationism taught in public schools. Schwartz is most
likely not a creationist per se, but he's clearly not
sold on Darwin (and I wonder about his judgment getting
involved with anything related to the Discovery Institute).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_M._Schwartz

What you're getting into with him is mind/body dualism,
something you've previously seemed to hold at a distance.
Just saying.


This is 50 and out for me. Back in a few days.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... 
wrote:

 Your response really makes me think Richard.  I am reading a book that 
 explores this question from a slightly different angle.  It is called, The 
 Mind and the Brain, neuroplasticity and the power of mental force. by 
 Schwarty and Beggley.
 
 It discusses a theory of how the mind influences the brain's functioning.  
 I'll just paste in the book description from Amazon which got me interested 
 because I am not deep enough into it to speak about it.  But thanks for an 
 deepening the question about this relationship in your response.
 
 Here is a the key excerpt:
 
 This major discovery is at the core of The Mind and the Brain: that through 
 the power of thought, by focusing attention, human beings can use their own 
 minds to change their brains. 
 
 Here is the whole quote:
 
 The greatest scientific advances are never the result of strict adherence to 
 convention. Often it takes an innovative maverick, someone willing to see 
 things differently while possessing the determination and intelligence to 
 substantiate his challenges to conventional wisdom. Jeffrey M. Schwartz, 
 M.D., a leading neuroscientist and Research Professor of Psychiatry at the 
 UCLA School of Medicine, an international authority on brain diseases and 
 author of the definitive work on obsessive compulsive disorder, Brain Lock, 
 has defied convention again in his new book, The Mind and the Brain: 
 Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force. The Mind and the Brain, 
 written with Sharon Begley, formerly Newsweek's senior science writer and now 
 science columnist for The Wall Street Journal, is a work as profound as it is 
 provocative: a book that gives substantial proof that - contrary to popular 
 scientific belief - the entity we commonly call the mind has the power to 
 change the makeup of the physical brain. For years, there has been a division 
 between the assumptions of hard science 'which contended that the brain 
 functioned essentially as a machine' and our daily human experience, which 
 seems to suggest that the mind is something different from the physical 
 brain, a force we are capable of harnessing for our benefit. This was a 
 conflict that always bothered Jeffrey Schwartz, who was responsible for the 
 revolutionary Four Steps therapy that has helped patients around the world 
 battle the effects of obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). His therapy was 
 grounded in cognitive-behavioural principles, which drew on a patient's own 
 awareness of his state of mind, and involved the patient directly in his own 
 therapy. Combining the revelations of more than two decades of research with 
 a progressive approach influenced by the Buddhist principle of mindful 
 awareness, Schwartz's therapy was wildly successful but it also opened a 
 door into a much more significant revelation: while reviewing his patients' 
 brain scans, Schwartz discovered that their self-directed therapy was 
 actually changing the wiring of their brains. This major discovery is at the 
 core of The Mind and the Brain: that through the power of thought, by 
 focusing attention, human beings can use their own minds to change their 
 brains. The scientific implications of this discovery are manifold: victims 
 of stroke may be able to use the discovery to help reassume command of their 
 bodies and lives, and psychiatrists treating patients with mental disorders 
 may be able to decrease their patients' reliance on psychiatric drugs. As a 
 therapeutic advance, then, The Mind and the Brain offers a paradigm shift 
 that promises new treatments for conditions from dyslexia to depression. 
 Schwartz's discovery may amount to the most conclusive scientific evidence to 
 date of the existence of free will 'that is, the power of human beings to 
 take an active role in the choices they make. In the book Schwartz points 
 accusingly at the moral vacuum created by the old, materialistic worldview 
 and raises questions of personal responsibility in a new light. Infused with 
 the insatiable curiosity of a scientific trailblazer and the passion of a 
 crusader, The Mind and the Brain is a daring and groundbreaking work of 
 research and vision - one 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[curtisdeltablues]

Judy sometimes you really come through, big thanks.

I was unaware of this connection and greatly appreciate your pointing it out.  
I actually got the book because it seemed to push back on my POV, so it seems 
it will do so in spades, it is even more useful than I thought.  He is a 
specialist in OCD disorders was all I knew about him.  

I notice now that Brian Josephson our old TM nobel laureate wrote a positive 
review on the back.  Excellent!  This will show me some edges of the debate I 
am missing.

I am so bogged down in books I didn't properly research this one so thanks for 
helping me.

 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote:

 Curtis, are you aware that Schwartz is a proponent of
 Intelligent Design? According to Wikipedia, Schwartz
 has signed the Discovery Institute's A Scientific Dissent
 from Darwinism. The Discovery Institute promotes
 the idea of Intelligent Design as a means of having
 creationism taught in public schools. Schwartz is most
 likely not a creationist per se, but he's clearly not
 sold on Darwin (and I wonder about his judgment getting
 involved with anything related to the Discovery Institute).
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_M._Schwartz
 
 What you're getting into with him is mind/body dualism,
 something you've previously seemed to hold at a distance.
 Just saying.
 
 
 This is 50 and out for me. Back in a few days.
 
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ 
 wrote:
 
  Your response really makes me think Richard.  I am reading a book that 
  explores this question from a slightly different angle.  It is called, The 
  Mind and the Brain, neuroplasticity and the power of mental force. by 
  Schwarty and Beggley.
  
  It discusses a theory of how the mind influences the brain's functioning.  
  I'll just paste in the book description from Amazon which got me interested 
  because I am not deep enough into it to speak about it.  But thanks for an 
  deepening the question about this relationship in your response.
  
  Here is a the key excerpt:
  
  This major discovery is at the core of The Mind and the Brain: that 
  through the power of thought, by focusing attention, human beings can use 
  their own minds to change their brains. 
  
  Here is the whole quote:
  
  The greatest scientific advances are never the result of strict adherence 
  to convention. Often it takes an innovative maverick, someone willing to 
  see things differently while possessing the determination and intelligence 
  to substantiate his challenges to conventional wisdom. Jeffrey M. Schwartz, 
  M.D., a leading neuroscientist and Research Professor of Psychiatry at the 
  UCLA School of Medicine, an international authority on brain diseases and 
  author of the definitive work on obsessive compulsive disorder, Brain Lock, 
  has defied convention again in his new book, The Mind and the Brain: 
  Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force. The Mind and the Brain, 
  written with Sharon Begley, formerly Newsweek's senior science writer and 
  now science columnist for The Wall Street Journal, is a work as profound as 
  it is provocative: a book that gives substantial proof that - contrary to 
  popular scientific belief - the entity we commonly call the mind has the 
  power to change the makeup of the physical brain. For years, there has been 
  a division between the assumptions of hard science 'which contended that 
  the brain functioned essentially as a machine' and our daily human 
  experience, which seems to suggest that the mind is something different 
  from the physical brain, a force we are capable of harnessing for our 
  benefit. This was a conflict that always bothered Jeffrey Schwartz, who was 
  responsible for the revolutionary Four Steps therapy that has helped 
  patients around the world battle the effects of obsessive-compulsive 
  disorder (OCD). His therapy was grounded in cognitive-behavioural 
  principles, which drew on a patient's own awareness of his state of mind, 
  and involved the patient directly in his own therapy. Combining the 
  revelations of more than two decades of research with a progressive 
  approach influenced by the Buddhist principle of mindful awareness, 
  Schwartz's therapy was wildly successful but it also opened a door into a 
  much more significant revelation: while reviewing his patients' brain 
  scans, Schwartz discovered that their self-directed therapy was actually 
  changing the wiring of their brains. This major discovery is at the core of 
  The Mind and the Brain: that through the power of thought, by focusing 
  attention, human beings can use their own minds to change their brains. The 
  scientific implications of this discovery are manifold: victims of stroke 
  may be able to use the discovery to help reassume command of their bodies 
  and lives, and psychiatrists treating patients with mental disorders may be 
  able to decrease their patients' 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote:

 snip
 Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain.
 
  So are you saying that those talked about upper layers don't exist?  I ask 
 because I had some work done a few months ago to repair my spiritual grid - 
 ostensibly above me, but maybe not.
 


The original context was in discussing the merits of doing Western 
physiological studies on the effects of meditation.

My own belief is that regardless of how subtle the body is that you are 
talking about, it is STILL a physical body in some sense in that it isn't 
pure consciousness, so the basic point holds: if you can talk about a 
structure to consciousness beyond the most fundamental rishi-devatas-chhandas 
samhita, there needs to be SOME kind of physical structure associated with 
it, even if it is comprised entirely of consciousness-stuff.

And, as one deals with more and more elaborate structures, one gets closer and 
closer to what Western Science calls physical.

L.
 
 
 
 
  From: sparaig LEnglish5@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 8:12 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic 
 Physiology
  
 
   
 one of my favorite quotes from MMY:
 
 Spiritual and Material Values
 
 Every experience has its level of physiology, and so unbounded awareness 
 has its own level of physiology which can be measured. Every aspect of life 
 is integrated and connected with every other phase. When we talk of 
 scientific measurements, it does not take away from the spiritual 
 experience. We are not responsible for those times when spiritual experience 
 was thought of as metaphysical. Everything is physical. Consciousness is the 
 product of the functioning of the brain. Talking of scientific measurements 
 is no damage to that wholeness of life which is present everywhere and which 
 begins to be lived when the physiology is taking on a particular form. This 
 is our understanding about spirituality: it is not on the level of faith 
 --it is on the level of blood and bone and flesh and activity. It is 
 measurable.
 
 -Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardatrwilliamsdotus richard@ 
 wrote:
 
  
  
  Bhairitu:
   It is a conditioning of the nervous system.
  
  Enlightenment doesn't have anything to do with the 
  human nervous system.  If it did, we could see it 
  and measure it and replicate it. 
  
  The enlightened state is a state of mind; a state 
  where we percieve reality as it really is. 
  
  Enlightenment is a mental state - there is no 
  change in the physical body. Enlightenment is a 
  metaphysical state.
  
  The historical buddha is said to have attained 
  enlightenment, but he had a bad back until the day 
  he passed away. 
  
  Enlightenment ...is the state of residing in such 
  great understanding and depth, that no matter what 
  life throws your way, you are at peace with it, you 
  are able to say, That's OK, no problem. 
  - Zen Buddhist Master Charlotte Joko Beck
 
 
 
  
 
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[zarzari_786]

Thanks, Bhairatu, I have a friend who is (or was) heavy into Shiva puranas, I 
will ask him. I was especially interested in the cloth thing. I think, in the 
beginning Maharishi probably took more things from scripture, or 'translated' 
it into western terms, then maybe later.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote:

 The Shiva Purana has the water the root to enjoy the fruit thing (some 
 claim to have found it elsewhere too, not surprised).  The cloth analogy 
 may have been there too but that was in the late 1970s when I read it.  
 MMY didn't invent a lot of stuff, he just repeated things that were 
 found in many traditional texts and there is nothing wrong with that.  
 Just to westerners it was new.
 
 Somehow people here got sidetracked into the idea of the nervous system 
 adapting to the influence of mantras as a way to measure enlightenment.  
 I never said that.  I just said that the nervous system adapts to 
 stimuli (like duh!).  Science is just beginning to understand how the 
 brain and nervous system modifies itself given certain stimuli.  The 
 experience is important not the measurement of it.
 
 On 12/09/2011 03:52 PM, zarzari_786 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@  wrote:
  On 12/09/2011 09:52 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786no_reply@   wrote:
  Curtis, this is all very funny, hilarious. Regarding this 'DNA 
  resetting', just the thought came to me of something Vaj had mentioned 
  in another post (knowing a little bit of the Indian mindset): caste! For 
  Indians, its all in the blood. For Indians, being vegetarian is no much 
  good unless your father, grandfather has been, because then your 'blood' 
  (DNA) is pure, and you are more or less like a Brahmin. So DNA resetting 
  is something like aligning to your proper caste position, maybe you get 
  a better catse, maybe you advance from ST to SC with one reset, and with 
  another reset from SC to OBC 
  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Backward_Class). Maybe, with 8 
  resets, you could advance to somewhere in the middle of the Indian caste 
  system. At least you are already allowed to listen to the Vedas. To 
  become a Brahmin, you have to take a rebirth, there is no way around 
  that, but with a few more resets, your chances grow! But you should 
  consider how many resets you really want! Because as an SC (Scheduled 
  Caste = Dalits) or OBC you get quota for certain professions. So think 
  about it.
  Yes you are definitely on to something.  In India in 1980 Maharishi told 
  us in a discussion about the shakkas descended from the 7 original Rishis 
  who come out with creation (and hang out with dinosaurs for a really long 
  time presumably) that Americans are what he called the mix-ups and that 
  we would require more purification than Indians to get enlightened.  And 
  we just sat there and took it!  Reacting to his ethnocentric superiority 
  rap like a bunch of grinn'n skin heads at a we hate everyone else rally!
  Exactly Curtis! Maharishi came from one of the most conservative traditions 
  in India. He would never teach us the Gayatri mantra, would he? Look, there 
  are lots of Indian gurus teaching westerners and women the Gayatri, Sai 
  Baba included. But for him its Veda, we aren't Brahmins, so it's a no no. 
  And for him everything is just about the veda, so what we are left with? By 
  definition, can't do the real thingie. There are many less orthodox 
  movements in India, the naths, the sufis, the tantrics, many of the bhakti 
  movements.
 
 
  I recall when the Earl Kaplan letter came out and he mentioned that on
  his trip to India he found that enlightenment was not that uncommon and
  not so difficult to achieve.
  Incidentaly, just recently I found a post of him in one of the mailboxes I 
  survey, he was looking for a friend, so I forwarded it.
 
  After all it is just to experience of
  having pure consciousness co-exist throughout the day in your awareness
  along with activity.  It is a conditioning of the nervous system.
  To measure enlightenment is of course difficult. But, in rural areas, you 
  do find a lot of village (or town) saints, avadhutas. Maybe it was that 
  what he meant, among Hindus and Muslims.
 
 
  One
  analogy which is accurate is the dying the cloth one (you'll find a lot
  of these kinds of analogies in various books such as the Puranas).
  Interesting. Do you know in which Purana this analogy occurs, and also in 
  which exact context?
 
 
The
  nervous system finds pure consciousness pleasing and once experiencing
  it begins to rewire itself to have more and more of it.  It's a natural
  process aided by the sadhana.
 
  Just as there are plenty of westerners just as good at computer
  engineering as Indians so are many westerners just as good at achieving
  enlightenment.
  Exactly.
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[Bhairitu]

The cloth thing is a pretty obvious analogy for sadhana leading to 
moksha.  Anyone could have thought of it.

I didn't come to TM as a spiritual neophyte.  I learned some yoga asanas 
back in 1970 and a couple weeks later sat trying a mantra meditation 
out of a book.  In 1972 a girlfriend gave me Be Here Now for Christmas 
and a few weeks later she did TM (and then a few weeks later did a 
kundalini intensive which was either Muktananda or Yogi Bhagan).  I 
went on to study read things like books on Ramana Maharishi and tried 
TM in the fall of '73 because it was only $75.  I had a good experience 
the first time but then I was primed for it.  I signed up for a day 
time SCI course and enjoyed hanging out with the folks there.   There 
weren't that many TB'ers up until about 1978.  Back then TM was a fun 
social outlet.

The problem is that MMY probably over did the secularization and 
scholasticizing.  Again I don't look at the teaching as if MMY was some 
magical person that invented a bunch of stuff.  He just repackaged well 
known techniques (at least well known in India).  I recall when he made 
our TTC course teachers how his persona changed from being Mr. Holyman 
to being Mr. Businessman.  And that made me wonder.  It was a MMY you 
didn't see on tapes.

The Vedic Physiology was so dry it was hard to sit through.  Stuff 
like that in other paths would be the result of asking the guru about it 
and he might right then and there give out some techniques for free.

On 12/10/2011 02:04 AM, zarzari_786 wrote:
 Thanks, Bhairatu, I have a friend who is (or was) heavy into Shiva puranas, I 
 will ask him. I was especially interested in the cloth thing. I think, in the 
 beginning Maharishi probably took more things from scripture, or 'translated' 
 it into western terms, then maybe later.

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@...  wrote:
 The Shiva Purana has the water the root to enjoy the fruit thing (some
 claim to have found it elsewhere too, not surprised).  The cloth analogy
 may have been there too but that was in the late 1970s when I read it.
 MMY didn't invent a lot of stuff, he just repeated things that were
 found in many traditional texts and there is nothing wrong with that.
 Just to westerners it was new.

 Somehow people here got sidetracked into the idea of the nervous system
 adapting to the influence of mantras as a way to measure enlightenment.
 I never said that.  I just said that the nervous system adapts to
 stimuli (like duh!).  Science is just beginning to understand how the
 brain and nervous system modifies itself given certain stimuli.  The
 experience is important not the measurement of it.

 On 12/09/2011 03:52 PM, zarzari_786 wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@   wrote:
 On 12/09/2011 09:52 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786no_reply@wrote:
 Curtis, this is all very funny, hilarious. Regarding this 'DNA 
 resetting', just the thought came to me of something Vaj had mentioned 
 in another post (knowing a little bit of the Indian mindset): caste! For 
 Indians, its all in the blood. For Indians, being vegetarian is no much 
 good unless your father, grandfather has been, because then your 'blood' 
 (DNA) is pure, and you are more or less like a Brahmin. So DNA resetting 
 is something like aligning to your proper caste position, maybe you get 
 a better catse, maybe you advance from ST to SC with one reset, and with 
 another reset from SC to OBC 
 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Backward_Class). Maybe, with 8 
 resets, you could advance to somewhere in the middle of the Indian caste 
 system. At least you are already allowed to listen to the Vedas. To 
 become a Brahmin, you have to take a rebirth, there is no way around 
 that, but with a few more resets, your chances grow! But you should 
 consider how many resets you really want! Because as an SC (Scheduled 
 Caste = Dalits) or OBC you get quota for certain professions. So think 
 about it.
 Yes you are definitely on to something.  In India in 1980 Maharishi told 
 us in a discussion about the shakkas descended from the 7 original Rishis 
 who come out with creation (and hang out with dinosaurs for a really long 
 time presumably) that Americans are what he called the mix-ups and that 
 we would require more purification than Indians to get enlightened.  And 
 we just sat there and took it!  Reacting to his ethnocentric superiority 
 rap like a bunch of grinn'n skin heads at a we hate everyone else rally!
 Exactly Curtis! Maharishi came from one of the most conservative traditions 
 in India. He would never teach us the Gayatri mantra, would he? Look, there 
 are lots of Indian gurus teaching westerners and women the Gayatri, Sai 
 Baba included. But for him its Veda, we aren't Brahmins, so it's a no no. 
 And for him everything is just about the veda, so what we are left with? By 
 definition, can't do the real thingie. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[PaliGap]

 Bhairitu:
  Keep digging your hole and eventually you'll reach 
  China. 

You live in Chile?

http://map.talleye.com/bighole.php

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[turquoiseb]

Excellent comments, Curtis. You cut right through
the case-hardened-from-being-left-to-dry-in-the-
soma-green-cowpasture-of-enlightenment-too-long 
bullshit and get right to the heart of the matter. 

I simply can't wait for one of the professional 
TMO apologists who haunt this forum to try to 
take on your criticisms and defend what simply 
has no chance of being defended.

Me, I'm still getting over the shock of learning
that the person I reacted to during my first view
of the clip by thinking Who IS this old man who 
looks so lifelessly unhealthy that they got to read
the flashcards and chant Ved oh hum at the end
of his spiel as if that were supposed to mean some-
thing except 'Oh hum...can I get paid now?' Couldn't 
they have found someone who looks more *alive* to 
be their spokesmodel? was Alaric Arenander. I used 
to know and work with him back in 70's L.A. In this 
clip I literally didn't recognize him. If he is the 
product of what this new TMO product offering
produces, I'm not buyin'.

More below...

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... 
wrote:

 Quoted from claims:
 
  What you see you become
  Putting our attention on the Vedic sequence creates 
  brainwave coherence 
 
 Maybe this was tested, maybe not.  Does anyone know?  It 
 is quite a claim that would require evidence to be believed.  
 I suspect that the old Maharishi flying coherence move is 
 in play again.

Especially because any EEG samples would have to be 
taken with the eyes open looking at ever-changing
content. I don't see how they'd determine coherence
in such a situation, or even establish a baseline.

  and enlivens the genetic sequence of the DNA. When the 
  genes are reset,
 
 This is the most dubious claim.  

It's ludicrous. I'm waiting for the animated sales
blurb, in which tiny microscopic Devas run around
inside the practitioners resetting their genes by 
flipping tiny golden switches on the DNA molecules.

 I think they are using sciency sounding terms to lend 
 some credibility to outrageous speculation. In what 
 sense are the genes reset?  Do we have any other scientific 
 evidence for this kind of affect at this level of our cells?  
 Enlivens the genetic sequence of the DNA is practically 
 an Onion parody of flim flam medical claims.

This is the most unsettling aspect of this whole
new product. The people writing it up and trying
to promote it clearly *have no clue* that they are
creating an Onion parody, and of *themselves*.

 But I may be wrong, who knows what genetic resetting is 
 and how we know mental processes accomplish this.  I 
 don't even remember any TM research that approaches 
 this level of fantasy claim.

I'm waiting for them to introduce the E-meter, two
tin cans that the practitioner holds in each hand
while watching the LED Visible Man. This will enhance
the gene resetting tenfold because the practitioner
will be able to see at a glance the twitching needle
on the dial of the E-meter that shows conclusively
that something good is happening.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[zarzari_786]

Curtis, this is all very funny, hilarious. Regarding this 'DNA resetting', just 
the thought came to me of something Vaj had mentioned in another post (knowing 
a little bit of the Indian mindset): caste! For Indians, its all in the blood. 
For Indians, being vegetarian is no much good unless your father, grandfather 
has been, because then your 'blood' (DNA) is pure, and you are more or less 
like a Brahmin. So DNA resetting is something like aligning to your proper 
caste position, maybe you get a better catse, maybe you advance from ST to SC 
with one reset, and with another reset from SC to OBC 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Backward_Class). Maybe, with 8 resets, you 
could advance to somewhere in the middle of the Indian caste system. At least 
you are already allowed to listen to the Vedas. To become a Brahmin, you have 
to take a rebirth, there is no way around that, but with a few more resets, 
your chances grow! But you should consider how many resets you really want! 
Because as an SC (Scheduled Caste = Dalits) or OBC you get quota for certain 
professions. So think about it.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... 
wrote:

 -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote:
 
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
   
   But I may be wrong, who knows what genetic resetting is and how we know 
   mental processes accomplish this.  I don't even remember any TM research 
   that approaches this level of fantasy claim.
   
  
  Curtis, you just don't understand it because your intellect is 
  underdeveloped,
 
 Hey, I'm doing the best I can with my genes all akimbo like they are without 
 having been reset.  I needs ma genes reset man!
 
 
  but this can be rectified by attending the course, and it will be clear to 
 you beyond proof that every word said about it is not only true but 100% 
 scientific.
 
 Hey, they had me at better tummy.
 
 
  Only its future science, and your intellect has to be higher intellect, if 
 you know what I mean.
 
 Do I ever!  I got a PHD in what you mean in my misspent youth.
 
 
  Meanwhile I am pondering, who is seen left and right of the Purusha 
 mandala, in the cosmos at about minute 5:35 to 5:50 of the video, see here 
 (url with timecoding) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSMrAB4vV_c#t=5m50s My 
 guess is its Captain Kirk and Lieutenant Uhura.
 
 Thanks for the heads up on the apparitions, excellent catch!
 
 I had assumed that it was my late Uncle Merle and Aunt Kitty back from the 
 grave to let their favorite nephew know that there IS life after death and 
 its just like those big resorts in the Catskills with the wonderful pillow 
 soft Portuguese dinner rolls and a crab-stuffed flounder to die for covered 
 with capers and browned butter with a wedge of lemon in one of those cheese 
 cloths that keep the seeds out of your fish. (How thoughtful is that?)  Now 
 isn't that heaven?  Not yet?  Well perhaps when they bring out the baked 
 Alaska in a conga line of waiters all aflame with the lights turned off we'll 
 turn that frown upside down! 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[Bob Price]

 From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com
snip
 

  
Excellent comments, Curtis. You cut right through
bullshit and get right to the heart of the matter. 

I simply can't wait

Me, I'm still getting over the shock of learning...
Who IS this old man
 I used to know and work with him back in 70's L.A.

More below...


***You two realize, black belt co dependents that you are, when Bubbles dies, 
Maharishi's life will pass before her eyes, and when Curtis drops his mortal 
coil, Bubbles challenging Chuck Norris to a wrestling match, will pass before 
his eyes.



 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[Bhairitu]

Some of the Indian teachers who have migrated to the west consider 
westerners who are intellectuals to be Brahmins.  And tantrics don't 
restrict their teachings to Brahmins.  I've always considered the caste 
system just to be a way of helping people understand their dharma but 
not necessarily locking them in it.

On 12/09/2011 02:39 AM, zarzari_786 wrote:
 Curtis, this is all very funny, hilarious. Regarding this 'DNA resetting', 
 just the thought came to me of something Vaj had mentioned in another post 
 (knowing a little bit of the Indian mindset): caste! For Indians, its all in 
 the blood. For Indians, being vegetarian is no much good unless your father, 
 grandfather has been, because then your 'blood' (DNA) is pure, and you are 
 more or less like a Brahmin. So DNA resetting is something like aligning to 
 your proper caste position, maybe you get a better catse, maybe you advance 
 from ST to SC with one reset, and with another reset from SC to OBC 
 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Backward_Class). Maybe, with 8 resets, 
 you could advance to somewhere in the middle of the Indian caste system. At 
 least you are already allowed to listen to the Vedas. To become a Brahmin, 
 you have to take a rebirth, there is no way around that, but with a few more 
 resets, your chances grow! But you should consider how many resets you really 
 want! Because as an SC (Scheduled Caste = Dalits) or OBC you get quota for 
 certain professions. So think about it.

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 curtisdeltabluescurtisdeltablues@...  wrote:
 -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786no_reply@  wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltabluescurtisdeltablues@ 
  wrote:

 But I may be wrong, who knows what genetic resetting is and how we know 
 mental processes accomplish this.  I don't even remember any TM research 
 that approaches this level of fantasy claim.

 Curtis, you just don't understand it because your intellect is 
 underdeveloped,
 Hey, I'm doing the best I can with my genes all akimbo like they are without 
 having been reset.  I needs ma genes reset man!


   but this can be rectified by attending the course, and it will be clear 
 to you beyond proof that every word said about it is not only true but 100% 
 scientific.

 Hey, they had me at better tummy.


   Only its future science, and your intellect has to be higher intellect, 
 if you know what I mean.

 Do I ever!  I got a PHD in what you mean in my misspent youth.


   Meanwhile I am pondering, who is seen left and right of the Purusha 
 mandala, in the cosmos at about minute 5:35 to 5:50 of the video, see here 
 (url with timecoding) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSMrAB4vV_c#t=5m50s My 
 guess is its Captain Kirk and Lieutenant Uhura.

 Thanks for the heads up on the apparitions, excellent catch!

 I had assumed that it was my late Uncle Merle and Aunt Kitty back from the 
 grave to let their favorite nephew know that there IS life after death and 
 its just like those big resorts in the Catskills with the wonderful pillow 
 soft Portuguese dinner rolls and a crab-stuffed flounder to die for covered 
 with capers and browned butter with a wedge of lemon in one of those cheese 
 cloths that keep the seeds out of your fish. (How thoughtful is that?)  Now 
 isn't that heaven?  Not yet?  Well perhaps when they bring out the baked 
 Alaska in a conga line of waiters all aflame with the lights turned off 
 we'll turn that frown upside down!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@... wrote:

 Curtis, this is all very funny, hilarious. Regarding this 'DNA resetting', 
 just the thought came to me of something Vaj had mentioned in another post 
 (knowing a little bit of the Indian mindset): caste! For Indians, its all in 
 the blood. For Indians, being vegetarian is no much good unless your father, 
 grandfather has been, because then your 'blood' (DNA) is pure, and you are 
 more or less like a Brahmin. So DNA resetting is something like aligning to 
 your proper caste position, maybe you get a better catse, maybe you advance 
 from ST to SC with one reset, and with another reset from SC to OBC 
 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Backward_Class). Maybe, with 8 resets, 
 you could advance to somewhere in the middle of the Indian caste system. At 
 least you are already allowed to listen to the Vedas. To become a Brahmin, 
 you have to take a rebirth, there is no way around that, but with a few more 
 resets, your chances grow! But you should consider how many resets you really 
 want! Because as an SC (Scheduled Caste = Dalits) or OBC you get quota for 
 certain professions. So think about it.


Yes you are definitely on to something.  In India in 1980 Maharishi told us in 
a discussion about the shakkas descended from the 7 original Rishis who come 
out with creation (and hang out with dinosaurs for a really long time 
presumably) that Americans are what he called the mix-ups and that we would 
require more purification than Indians to get enlightened.  And we just sat 
there and took it!  Reacting to his ethnocentric superiority rap like a bunch 
of grinn'n skin heads at a we hate everyone else rally!   




 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ 
 wrote:
 
  -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@ wrote:
  
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
   curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
   

But I may be wrong, who knows what genetic resetting is and how we know 
mental processes accomplish this.  I don't even remember any TM 
research that approaches this level of fantasy claim.

   
   Curtis, you just don't understand it because your intellect is 
   underdeveloped,
  
  Hey, I'm doing the best I can with my genes all akimbo like they are 
  without having been reset.  I needs ma genes reset man!
  
  
   but this can be rectified by attending the course, and it will be clear 
  to you beyond proof that every word said about it is not only true but 100% 
  scientific.
  
  Hey, they had me at better tummy.
  
  
   Only its future science, and your intellect has to be higher intellect, 
  if you know what I mean.
  
  Do I ever!  I got a PHD in what you mean in my misspent youth.
  
  
   Meanwhile I am pondering, who is seen left and right of the Purusha 
  mandala, in the cosmos at about minute 5:35 to 5:50 of the video, see here 
  (url with timecoding) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSMrAB4vV_c#t=5m50s My 
  guess is its Captain Kirk and Lieutenant Uhura.
  
  Thanks for the heads up on the apparitions, excellent catch!
  
  I had assumed that it was my late Uncle Merle and Aunt Kitty back from the 
  grave to let their favorite nephew know that there IS life after death and 
  its just like those big resorts in the Catskills with the wonderful pillow 
  soft Portuguese dinner rolls and a crab-stuffed flounder to die for covered 
  with capers and browned butter with a wedge of lemon in one of those cheese 
  cloths that keep the seeds out of your fish. (How thoughtful is that?)  Now 
  isn't that heaven?  Not yet?  Well perhaps when they bring out the baked 
  Alaska in a conga line of waiters all aflame with the lights turned off 
  we'll turn that frown upside down! 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[Bhairitu]

On 12/09/2011 09:52 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786no_reply@...  wrote:
 Curtis, this is all very funny, hilarious. Regarding this 'DNA resetting', 
 just the thought came to me of something Vaj had mentioned in another post 
 (knowing a little bit of the Indian mindset): caste! For Indians, its all in 
 the blood. For Indians, being vegetarian is no much good unless your father, 
 grandfather has been, because then your 'blood' (DNA) is pure, and you are 
 more or less like a Brahmin. So DNA resetting is something like aligning to 
 your proper caste position, maybe you get a better catse, maybe you advance 
 from ST to SC with one reset, and with another reset from SC to OBC 
 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Backward_Class). Maybe, with 8 resets, 
 you could advance to somewhere in the middle of the Indian caste system. At 
 least you are already allowed to listen to the Vedas. To become a Brahmin, 
 you have to take a rebirth, there is no way around that, but with a few more 
 resets, your chances grow! But you should consider how many resets you 
 really want! Because as an SC (Scheduled Caste = Dalits) or OBC you get 
 quota for certain professions. So think about it.

 Yes you are definitely on to something.  In India in 1980 Maharishi told us 
 in a discussion about the shakkas descended from the 7 original Rishis who 
 come out with creation (and hang out with dinosaurs for a really long time 
 presumably) that Americans are what he called the mix-ups and that we would 
 require more purification than Indians to get enlightened.  And we just sat 
 there and took it!  Reacting to his ethnocentric superiority rap like a bunch 
 of grinn'n skin heads at a we hate everyone else rally!

I recall when the Earl Kaplan letter came out and he mentioned that on 
his trip to India he found that enlightenment was not that uncommon and 
not so difficult to achieve.  After all it is just to experience of 
having pure consciousness co-exist throughout the day in your awareness 
along with activity.  It is a conditioning of the nervous system.  One 
analogy which is accurate is the dying the cloth one (you'll find a lot 
of these kinds of analogies in various books such as the Puranas).  The 
nervous system finds pure consciousness pleasing and once experiencing 
it begins to rewire itself to have more and more of it.  It's a natural 
process aided by the sadhana.

Just as there are plenty of westerners just as good at computer 
engineering as Indians so are many westerners just as good at achieving 
enlightenment.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[Bob Price]

From: curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com

snip

Americans are what he called the mix-ups and that we would require more 
purification than Indians to get enlightened

***I can confirm the veracity of this statement. 





 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[richardatrwilliamsdotus]

zarzari:
 ...caste! For Indians, its all in the blood. 

The Indian 'caste' system is based on birth-curcumstances, 
'jati', not on skin color or blood type. Jati pertains to 
class - social and economic conditions in clans, tribes, 
communities and sub-communities and linguistics.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[zarzari_786]

Nobody spoke of blood type. Think of idioms like `its in the blood`
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?word=in+the+blood

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardatrwilliamsdotus richard@... 
wrote:

 
 
 zarzari:
  ...caste! For Indians, its all in the blood. 
 
 The Indian 'caste' system is based on birth-curcumstances, 
 'jati', not on skin color or blood type. Jati pertains to 
 class - social and economic conditions in clans, tribes, 
 communities and sub-communities and linguistics.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[Bhairitu]

On 12/09/2011 12:45 PM, richardatrwilliamsdotus wrote:

 Bhairitu:
 It is a conditioning of the nervous system.

 Enlightenment doesn't have anything to do with the
 human nervous system.  If it did, we could see it
 and measure it and replicate it.

 The enlightened state is a state of mind; a state
 where we percieve reality as it really is.

 Enlightenment is a mental state - there is no
 change in the physical body. Enlightenment is a
 metaphysical state.

 The historical buddha is said to have attained
 enlightenment, but he had a bad back until the day
 he passed away.

 Enlightenment ...is the state of residing in such
 great understanding and depth, that no matter what
 life throws your way, you are at peace with it, you
 are able to say, That's OK, no problem.
 - Zen Buddhist Master Charlotte Joko Beck

Keep digging your hole and eventually you'll reach China. :-D

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[richardatrwilliamsdotus]

   It is a conditioning of the nervous system.
  
  Enlightenment doesn't have anything to do with the
  human nervous system.  If it did, we could see it
  and measure it and replicate it.
 
  The enlightened state is a state of mind; a state
  where we percieve reality as it really is.
 
  Enlightenment is a mental state - there is no
  change in the physical body. Enlightenment is a
  metaphysical state.
 
  The historical buddha is said to have attained
  enlightenment, but he had a bad back until the day
  he passed away.
 
  Enlightenment ...is the state of residing in such
  great understanding and depth, that no matter what
  life throws your way, you are at peace with it, you
  are able to say, That's OK, no problem.
  - Zen Buddhist Master Charlotte Joko Beck
 
Bhairitu:
 Keep digging your hole and eventually you'll reach 
 China. 

Enlightenment doesn't have anything to do with digging
holes to China. 

Enlightenment is like a gate that you pass through.
But, enlightenment is more like a 'gate-less', gate.

Because once you pass through, you realize that there
is no gate; no path to the gate; no passing through, 
and no 'enlightenment' at all. You are still the same
person, only different in your outlook.

He made it so simple and clear,
It might take a long time to catch the point,
If one realizes that it's stupid to search for fire 
with a lantern light,
The rice would not take so long to be done. 
- Joshu

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[richardatrwilliamsdotus]

zarzari:
 Nobody spoke of blood type. Think of idioms 
 like `its in the blood`...

The 'caste system' in India is a foreign idea,
imported into South Asia with the arrival of
the Arya-speakers from the Caucasus area. The
native inhabitants did not have a social system
based on skin color or 'caste', which is a word
from Portugeuse meaning 'color'. 

So, the caste system is not apparently 'in their 
blood', but in the blood of the immigrants who 
supported class distinctions before their arrival 
in 1500 BC. 

The indigenous people of South Asia do not base 
their social system on race, since they are 
mostly made up of Dravidian clans and tribes
of mixed ethnicity with linguistic distinctions.

That was my point.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[Susan]

But no one really knows how to measure enlightenment in the brain, or where 
exactly to look in the nervous system yet.  They are getting closer to having 
the equipment and understanding to do this.  Having a change in the nervous 
system if one shifts in to enlightenment does not change anything  about the 
value of enlightenment, or even its metaphysical status.  Mental states appear 
to be due to the way the brain functions, or they cause changes in the way the 
brain functions. If enlightenment has nothing to do with any sort of mental 
state, I still would bet that something in the brain is different in the 
enlightened.  Either way, it seems pretty likely that the nervous system 
registers the difference due to enlightenment or causes it or allows it to 
happen.

And having a bad back while being enlightened (as was the Buddha) would not 
mean that the brain is not functioning differently due to the enlightenment.

I realize that all the folks who are enlightened say exactly what you have 
said.  I just don't see why you can't be enlightened and have a change in brain 
functioning as a result. But hey, I could be wrong.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardatrwilliamsdotus richard@... 
wrote:

 
 
 Bhairitu:
  It is a conditioning of the nervous system.
 
 Enlightenment doesn't have anything to do with the 
 human nervous system.  If it did, we could see it 
 and measure it and replicate it. 
 
 The enlightened state is a state of mind; a state 
 where we percieve reality as it really is. 
 
 Enlightenment is a mental state - there is no 
 change in the physical body. Enlightenment is a 
 metaphysical state.
 
 The historical buddha is said to have attained 
 enlightenment, but he had a bad back until the day 
 he passed away. 
 
 Enlightenment ...is the state of residing in such 
 great understanding and depth, that no matter what 
 life throws your way, you are at peace with it, you 
 are able to say, That's OK, no problem. 
 - Zen Buddhist Master Charlotte Joko Beck

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[zarzari_786]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote:

 On 12/09/2011 09:52 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786no_reply@  wrote:
  Curtis, this is all very funny, hilarious. Regarding this 'DNA resetting', 
  just the thought came to me of something Vaj had mentioned in another post 
  (knowing a little bit of the Indian mindset): caste! For Indians, its all 
  in the blood. For Indians, being vegetarian is no much good unless your 
  father, grandfather has been, because then your 'blood' (DNA) is pure, and 
  you are more or less like a Brahmin. So DNA resetting is something like 
  aligning to your proper caste position, maybe you get a better catse, 
  maybe you advance from ST to SC with one reset, and with another reset 
  from SC to OBC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Backward_Class). Maybe, 
  with 8 resets, you could advance to somewhere in the middle of the Indian 
  caste system. At least you are already allowed to listen to the Vedas. To 
  become a Brahmin, you have to take a rebirth, there is no way around that, 
  but with a few more resets, your chances grow! But you should consider how 
  many resets you really want! Because as an SC (Scheduled Caste = Dalits) 
  or OBC you get quota for certain professions. So think about it.
 
  Yes you are definitely on to something.  In India in 1980 Maharishi told us 
  in a discussion about the shakkas descended from the 7 original Rishis who 
  come out with creation (and hang out with dinosaurs for a really long time 
  presumably) that Americans are what he called the mix-ups and that we 
  would require more purification than Indians to get enlightened.  And we 
  just sat there and took it!  Reacting to his ethnocentric superiority rap 
  like a bunch of grinn'n skin heads at a we hate everyone else rally!

Exactly Curtis! Maharishi came from one of the most conservative traditions in 
India. He would never teach us the Gayatri mantra, would he? Look, there are 
lots of Indian gurus teaching westerners and women the Gayatri, Sai Baba 
included. But for him its Veda, we aren't Brahmins, so it's a no no. And for 
him everything is just about the veda, so what we are left with? By definition, 
can't do the real thingie. There are many less orthodox movements in India, the 
naths, the sufis, the tantrics, many of the bhakti movements.

 
 I recall when the Earl Kaplan letter came out and he mentioned that on 
 his trip to India he found that enlightenment was not that uncommon and 
 not so difficult to achieve.  

Incidentaly, just recently I found a post of him in one of the mailboxes I 
survey, he was looking for a friend, so I forwarded it.

 After all it is just to experience of 
 having pure consciousness co-exist throughout the day in your awareness 
 along with activity.  It is a conditioning of the nervous system.  

To measure enlightenment is of course difficult. But, in rural areas, you do 
find a lot of village (or town) saints, avadhutas. Maybe it was that what he 
meant, among Hindus and Muslims. 


One 
 analogy which is accurate is the dying the cloth one (you'll find a lot 
 of these kinds of analogies in various books such as the Puranas). 

Interesting. Do you know in which Purana this analogy occurs, and also in which 
exact context?


 The 
 nervous system finds pure consciousness pleasing and once experiencing 
 it begins to rewire itself to have more and more of it.  It's a natural 
 process aided by the sadhana.
 
 Just as there are plenty of westerners just as good at computer 
 engineering as Indians so are many westerners just as good at achieving 
 enlightenment.

Exactly.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[zarzari_786]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardatrwilliamsdotus richard@... 
wrote:

 
 
 zarzari:
  Nobody spoke of blood type. Think of idioms 
  like `its in the blood`...
 
 The 'caste system' in India is a foreign idea,
 imported into South Asia with the arrival of
 the Arya-speakers from the Caucasus area. The
 native inhabitants did not have a social system
 based on skin color or 'caste', which is a word
 from Portugeuse meaning 'color'. 
 
 So, the caste system is not apparently 'in their 
 blood', but in the blood of the immigrants who 
 supported class distinctions before their arrival 
 in 1500 BC. 
 
 The indigenous people of South Asia do not base 
 their social system on race, since they are 
 mostly made up of Dravidian clans and tribes
 of mixed ethnicity with linguistic distinctions.

The tribal people in India, are not Dravidian in origin, they predate the 
Dravidians. Those have been fully and totally integrated into the caste system 
that is mentioned in Rig Veda and the Bhagavad Gita. The Tribals (ST) 7% and 
Dalits (SC)15% are among the lowest of the low in Indian society, and it is an 
embarresment. 

The expression blood, in european languages, has been associated with here 
hereditary, like in the example I gave, and for example 'blue blood'. Genetics 
would be the more modern term, but it means the same. There is obviously the 
idea in India, that heredity can be influenced by behavioural patterns, and you 
could therefore have 'pure' genes. 

 
 That was my point.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[Bhairitu]

The Shiva Purana has the water the root to enjoy the fruit thing (some 
claim to have found it elsewhere too, not surprised).  The cloth analogy 
may have been there too but that was in the late 1970s when I read it.  
MMY didn't invent a lot of stuff, he just repeated things that were 
found in many traditional texts and there is nothing wrong with that.  
Just to westerners it was new.

Somehow people here got sidetracked into the idea of the nervous system 
adapting to the influence of mantras as a way to measure enlightenment.  
I never said that.  I just said that the nervous system adapts to 
stimuli (like duh!).  Science is just beginning to understand how the 
brain and nervous system modifies itself given certain stimuli.  The 
experience is important not the measurement of it.

On 12/09/2011 03:52 PM, zarzari_786 wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@...  wrote:
 On 12/09/2011 09:52 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786no_reply@   wrote:
 Curtis, this is all very funny, hilarious. Regarding this 'DNA resetting', 
 just the thought came to me of something Vaj had mentioned in another post 
 (knowing a little bit of the Indian mindset): caste! For Indians, its all 
 in the blood. For Indians, being vegetarian is no much good unless your 
 father, grandfather has been, because then your 'blood' (DNA) is pure, and 
 you are more or less like a Brahmin. So DNA resetting is something like 
 aligning to your proper caste position, maybe you get a better catse, 
 maybe you advance from ST to SC with one reset, and with another reset 
 from SC to OBC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Backward_Class). Maybe, 
 with 8 resets, you could advance to somewhere in the middle of the Indian 
 caste system. At least you are already allowed to listen to the Vedas. To 
 become a Brahmin, you have to take a rebirth, there is no way around that, 
 but with a few more resets, your chances grow! But you should consider how 
 many resets you really want! Because as an SC (Scheduled Caste = Dalits) 
 or OBC you get quota for certain professions. So think about it.
 Yes you are definitely on to something.  In India in 1980 Maharishi told us 
 in a discussion about the shakkas descended from the 7 original Rishis who 
 come out with creation (and hang out with dinosaurs for a really long time 
 presumably) that Americans are what he called the mix-ups and that we 
 would require more purification than Indians to get enlightened.  And we 
 just sat there and took it!  Reacting to his ethnocentric superiority rap 
 like a bunch of grinn'n skin heads at a we hate everyone else rally!
 Exactly Curtis! Maharishi came from one of the most conservative traditions 
 in India. He would never teach us the Gayatri mantra, would he? Look, there 
 are lots of Indian gurus teaching westerners and women the Gayatri, Sai Baba 
 included. But for him its Veda, we aren't Brahmins, so it's a no no. And for 
 him everything is just about the veda, so what we are left with? By 
 definition, can't do the real thingie. There are many less orthodox movements 
 in India, the naths, the sufis, the tantrics, many of the bhakti movements.


 I recall when the Earl Kaplan letter came out and he mentioned that on
 his trip to India he found that enlightenment was not that uncommon and
 not so difficult to achieve.
 Incidentaly, just recently I found a post of him in one of the mailboxes I 
 survey, he was looking for a friend, so I forwarded it.

 After all it is just to experience of
 having pure consciousness co-exist throughout the day in your awareness
 along with activity.  It is a conditioning of the nervous system.
 To measure enlightenment is of course difficult. But, in rural areas, you do 
 find a lot of village (or town) saints, avadhutas. Maybe it was that what he 
 meant, among Hindus and Muslims.


 One
 analogy which is accurate is the dying the cloth one (you'll find a lot
 of these kinds of analogies in various books such as the Puranas).
 Interesting. Do you know in which Purana this analogy occurs, and also in 
 which exact context?


   The
 nervous system finds pure consciousness pleasing and once experiencing
 it begins to rewire itself to have more and more of it.  It's a natural
 process aided by the sadhana.

 Just as there are plenty of westerners just as good at computer
 engineering as Indians so are many westerners just as good at achieving
 enlightenment.
 Exactly.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[richardatrwilliamsdotus]

Bhairitu:
 It is a conditioning of the nervous system.

Enlightenment doesn't have anything to do with the 
human nervous system.  If it did, we could see it 
and measure it and replicate it. 

The enlightened state is a state of mind; a state 
where we percieve reality as it really is. 

Enlightenment is a mental state - there is no 
change in the physical body. Enlightenment is a 
metaphysical state.

The historical buddha is said to have attained 
enlightenment, but he had a bad back until the day 
he passed away. 

Enlightenment ...is the state of residing in such 
great understanding and depth, that no matter what 
life throws your way, you are at peace with it, you 
are able to say, That's OK, no problem. 
- Zen Buddhist Master Charlotte Joko Beck

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[sparaig]

one of my favorite quotes from MMY:


Spiritual and Material Values

Every experience has its level of physiology, and so unbounded awareness has 
its own level of physiology which can be measured. Every aspect of life is 
integrated and connected with every other phase. When we talk of scientific 
measurements, it does not take away from the spiritual experience. We are not 
responsible for those times when spiritual experience was thought of as 
metaphysical. Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the 
functioning of the brain. Talking of scientific measurements is no damage to 
that wholeness of life which is present everywhere and which begins to be lived 
when the physiology is taking on a particular form. This is our understanding 
about spirituality: it is not on the level of faith --it is on the level of 
blood and bone and flesh and activity. It is measurable.

-Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardatrwilliamsdotus richard@... 
wrote:

 
 
 Bhairitu:
  It is a conditioning of the nervous system.
 
 Enlightenment doesn't have anything to do with the 
 human nervous system.  If it did, we could see it 
 and measure it and replicate it. 
 
 The enlightened state is a state of mind; a state 
 where we percieve reality as it really is. 
 
 Enlightenment is a mental state - there is no 
 change in the physical body. Enlightenment is a 
 metaphysical state.
 
 The historical buddha is said to have attained 
 enlightenment, but he had a bad back until the day 
 he passed away. 
 
 Enlightenment ...is the state of residing in such 
 great understanding and depth, that no matter what 
 life throws your way, you are at peace with it, you 
 are able to say, That's OK, no problem. 
 - Zen Buddhist Master Charlotte Joko Beck

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[Emily Reyn]

snip
Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain.

 So are you saying that those talked about upper layers don't exist?  I ask 
because I had some work done a few months ago to repair my spiritual grid - 
ostensibly above me, but maybe not.





 From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 8:12 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic 
Physiology
 

  
one of my favorite quotes from MMY:

Spiritual and Material Values

Every experience has its level of physiology, and so unbounded awareness has 
its own level of physiology which can be measured. Every aspect of life is 
integrated and connected with every other phase. When we talk of scientific 
measurements, it does not take away from the spiritual experience. We are not 
responsible for those times when spiritual experience was thought of as 
metaphysical. Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the 
functioning of the brain. Talking of scientific measurements is no damage to 
that wholeness of life which is present everywhere and which begins to be 
lived when the physiology is taking on a particular form. This is our 
understanding about spirituality: it is not on the level of faith --it is on 
the level of blood and bone and flesh and activity. It is measurable.

-Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardatrwilliamsdotus richard@... 
wrote:

 
 
 Bhairitu:
  It is a conditioning of the nervous system.
 
 Enlightenment doesn't have anything to do with the 
 human nervous system.  If it did, we could see it 
 and measure it and replicate it. 
 
 The enlightened state is a state of mind; a state 
 where we percieve reality as it really is. 
 
 Enlightenment is a mental state - there is no 
 change in the physical body. Enlightenment is a 
 metaphysical state.
 
 The historical buddha is said to have attained 
 enlightenment, but he had a bad back until the day 
 he passed away. 
 
 Enlightenment ...is the state of residing in such 
 great understanding and depth, that no matter what 
 life throws your way, you are at peace with it, you 
 are able to say, That's OK, no problem. 
 - Zen Buddhist Master Charlotte Joko Beck



 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[whynotnow7]

What a good idea - I like the price, and it appears it is open to non-TM 
practitioners too.  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:

 
 Maharishi's Global Family Chat Summary
 December 3, 2011
 
 
 Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology
 
 
 A course to align oneself with the Veda, Total Natural Law, has become
 an extraordinary success.
 
   [Dr Alarik] Early this year Dr. Morris suggested to Drs Alarik and
 Cynthia Arenander that they design a course based on Maharaja's
 discovery that the human physiology is the expression of Veda. The
 course they created is entitled `The Individual is Cosmic'. The
 central feature is an electronic model, which Maharishi designed and
 refined over many years, to demonstrate the correspondences between the
 verses of Rik Ved and aspects of the human physiology. The model,
 developed by the Ministry of Health of the Global Country of World
 Peace, shows the physiology, and the relevant part lights up and blinks
 when the corresponding verses of the Veda are recited.
 
   [Model]
 
 Extraordinary results
 The first course was offered in June, and participants had such
 unexpected and excellent results that more and more people have joined
 each course and now the 8th course is about to start. Many people just
 keep attending as many courses as they can, as the experience of healing
 and growth of consciousness just keep on improving.
 
 A course participant wrote, `I am amazed at how quickly my health
 disorders – just – poof – disappeared! I have worked on my
 health for years. Imagine, now having something that is so easy, quick,
 enjoyable and long lasting. What a great gift to humanity! It is the
 future in health care coming to us NOW! Thank you Maharishi, Maharaja
 and the Health Ministry.'
 
   [Group]
 
 How does it work?
 The course includes both intellectual understanding and experience of
 Vedic recitations. Dr Arenander gave a brilliant explanation of how the
 evolutionary, healing effects are generated. When awareness settles, it
 becomes Self-referral, and the innate intelligence of the body, which is
 Veda, is enlivened. All possibilities are enlivened in the memory of
 order in Veda, which is the internal structure of the Self. This is
 `self-repair mechanism'—the order does it itself.
 
 Veda, Total Natural Law, gives rise to the DNA as the perfect expression
 of Total Natural Law, which in turn gives rise to the physiology. When
 through daily living some `dust' collects—stress or disorder
 accumulates—and the physiology no longer functions according to the
 original design, then we can return to the Veda to reset it. Maharishi
 called this `Putting Atma to practice'. The Vedic recitation
 enlivens the perfect sequential expression of DNA and physiology.
 
 What you see you become
 Putting our attention on the Vedic sequence creates brainwave coherence
 and enlivens the genetic sequence of the DNA. When the genes are reset,
 they in turn reset the physiology to a more ideal and healthy
 functioning. This is the physiological reality of the Vedic saying
 `What you see you become'.
 
 Available in Europe this month
 At the end of December Drs Arenander will begin a tour of Europe:
 
 MERU, Holland – 27 to 31 December
 United Kingdom – 6 to 9 January
 Italy – 14 and 15 January
 Spain – 17 to 22 January
 Turkey – 23 to 29 January
 
 Everyone is welcome, including non-meditators.
 Apply early for the MERU course by email at: courses@...
 https://mail.google.com/mail/h/koodde1z53jk/?v=bcs=whto=courses@maha\
 rishi.net  or at
 http://www.globalcountrycourses.com/events/winter/index.php#assembly
 http://www.globalcountrycourses.com/events/winter/index.php#assembly
 For the national courses please book through your national office.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote:

 What a good idea - I like the price, and it appears it is open to non-TM 
 practitioners too.  


Jepp, you'll have no problems attending this Jim :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[curtisdeltablues]

Quoted from claims:

What you see you become
Putting our attention on the Vedic sequence creates brainwave coherence 

Maybe this was tested, maybe not.  Does anyone know?  It is quite a claim that 
would require evidence to be believed.  I suspect that the old Maharishi 
flying coherence move is in play again.


and enlivens the genetic sequence of the DNA. When the genes are reset,

This is the most dubious claim.  I think they are using sciency sounding terms 
to lend some credibility to outrageous speculation. In what sense are the genes 
reset?  Do we have any other scientific evidence for this kind of affect at 
this level of our cells?  Enlivens the genetic sequence of the DNA is 
practically an Onion parody of flim flam medical claims.

But I may be wrong, who knows what genetic resetting is and how we know mental 
processes accomplish this.  I don't even remember any TM research that 
approaches this level of fantasy claim.


 they in turn reset the physiology to a more ideal and healthy functioning. 
This is the physiological reality of the Vedic saying `What you see you 
become'.

And then your tummy feels better no doubt.  Nice choice of baby words in the 
video to assist the listener access that mother is at home zone of credulity.  

But I may be wrong, lets hear from someone who wants to explain what these 
beliefs are based on and why scientific terms are invoked rather than just 
using the Vedic terms which in my view is a more honest presentation of where 
these beliefs come from.  This is a matter of religious faith on the level of 
the spiritual value of the Eucharist.  






--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:

 
 Maharishi's Global Family Chat Summary
 December 3, 2011
 
 
 Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology
 
 
 A course to align oneself with the Veda, Total Natural Law, has become
 an extraordinary success.
 
   [Dr Alarik] Early this year Dr. Morris suggested to Drs Alarik and
 Cynthia Arenander that they design a course based on Maharaja's
 discovery that the human physiology is the expression of Veda. The
 course they created is entitled `The Individual is Cosmic'. The
 central feature is an electronic model, which Maharishi designed and
 refined over many years, to demonstrate the correspondences between the
 verses of Rik Ved and aspects of the human physiology. The model,
 developed by the Ministry of Health of the Global Country of World
 Peace, shows the physiology, and the relevant part lights up and blinks
 when the corresponding verses of the Veda are recited.
 
   [Model]
 
 Extraordinary results
 The first course was offered in June, and participants had such
 unexpected and excellent results that more and more people have joined
 each course and now the 8th course is about to start. Many people just
 keep attending as many courses as they can, as the experience of healing
 and growth of consciousness just keep on improving.
 
 A course participant wrote, `I am amazed at how quickly my health
 disorders – just – poof – disappeared! I have worked on my
 health for years. Imagine, now having something that is so easy, quick,
 enjoyable and long lasting. What a great gift to humanity! It is the
 future in health care coming to us NOW! Thank you Maharishi, Maharaja
 and the Health Ministry.'
 
   [Group]
 
 How does it work?
 The course includes both intellectual understanding and experience of
 Vedic recitations. Dr Arenander gave a brilliant explanation of how the
 evolutionary, healing effects are generated. When awareness settles, it
 becomes Self-referral, and the innate intelligence of the body, which is
 Veda, is enlivened. All possibilities are enlivened in the memory of
 order in Veda, which is the internal structure of the Self. This is
 `self-repair mechanism'—the order does it itself.
 
 Veda, Total Natural Law, gives rise to the DNA as the perfect expression
 of Total Natural Law, which in turn gives rise to the physiology. When
 through daily living some `dust' collects—stress or disorder
 accumulates—and the physiology no longer functions according to the
 original design, then we can return to the Veda to reset it. Maharishi
 called this `Putting Atma to practice'. The Vedic recitation
 enlivens the perfect sequential expression of DNA and physiology.
 
 What you see you become
 Putting our attention on the Vedic sequence creates brainwave coherence
 and enlivens the genetic sequence of the DNA. When the genes are reset,
 they in turn reset the physiology to a more ideal and healthy
 functioning. This is the physiological reality of the Vedic saying
 `What you see you become'.
 
 Available in Europe this month
 At the end of December Drs Arenander will begin a tour of Europe:
 
 MERU, Holland – 27 to 31 December
 United Kingdom – 6 to 9 January
 Italy – 14 and 15 January
 Spain – 17 to 22 January
 Turkey – 23 to 29 January
 
 Everyone is welcome, including non-meditators.
 Apply early for the MERU 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[whynotnow7]

I'll probably hack my own version together at some point. :-)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote:
 
  What a good idea - I like the price, and it appears it is open to non-TM 
  practitioners too.  
 
 
 Jepp, you'll have no problems attending this Jim :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[zarzari_786]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... 
wrote:

 
 But I may be wrong, who knows what genetic resetting is and how we know 
 mental processes accomplish this.  I don't even remember any TM research that 
 approaches this level of fantasy claim.
 

Curtis, you just don't understand it because your intellect is underdeveloped, 
but this can be rectified by attending the course, and it will be clear to you 
beyond proof that every word said about it is not only true but 100% 
scientific. Only its future science, and your intellect has to be higher 
intellect, if you know what I mean. Meanwhile I am pondering, who is seen left 
and right of the Purusha mandala, in the cosmos at about minute 5:35 to 5:50 of 
the video, see here (url with timecoding) 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSMrAB4vV_c#t=5m50s My guess is its Captain Kirk 
and Lieutenant Uhura. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Extraordinary Results from Course on Vedic Physiology

[curtisdeltablues]

-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, zarzari_786 no_reply@... wrote:

 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ 
 wrote:
 
  
  But I may be wrong, who knows what genetic resetting is and how we know 
  mental processes accomplish this.  I don't even remember any TM research 
  that approaches this level of fantasy claim.
  
 
 Curtis, you just don't understand it because your intellect is 
 underdeveloped,

Hey, I'm doing the best I can with my genes all akimbo like they are without 
having been reset.  I needs ma genes reset man!


 but this can be rectified by attending the course, and it will be clear to 
you beyond proof that every word said about it is not only true but 100% 
scientific.

Hey, they had me at better tummy.


 Only its future science, and your intellect has to be higher intellect, if 
you know what I mean.

Do I ever!  I got a PHD in what you mean in my misspent youth.


 Meanwhile I am pondering, who is seen left and right of the Purusha mandala, 
in the cosmos at about minute 5:35 to 5:50 of the video, see here (url with 
timecoding) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSMrAB4vV_c#t=5m50s My guess is its 
Captain Kirk and Lieutenant Uhura.

Thanks for the heads up on the apparitions, excellent catch!

I had assumed that it was my late Uncle Merle and Aunt Kitty back from the 
grave to let their favorite nephew know that there IS life after death and its 
just like those big resorts in the Catskills with the wonderful pillow soft 
Portuguese dinner rolls and a crab-stuffed flounder to die for covered with 
capers and browned butter with a wedge of lemon in one of those cheese cloths 
that keep the seeds out of your fish. (How thoughtful is that?)  Now isn't that 
heaven?  Not yet?  Well perhaps when they bring out the baked Alaska in a conga 
line of waiters all aflame with the lights turned off we'll turn that frown 
upside down!