Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
On 10/29/2014 3:11 PM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Well, Bhairitu, he went to university and then they expected him to get married. Seems pretty traditional to me. /Apparently the Maharishi was born into a a traditional Indian family; went to university and graduated; worked in a factory for awhile; and then became a beggar. It's not complicated./ *From:* Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2014 2:40 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness Share, ever been to India? Hard to imagine that Maharishi didn't have to avoid beggars growing up. So what *is* a traditional Indian family? On 10/29/2014 11:20 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com mailto:sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Nablusoss, all those good habits can definitely help, but if a person has experienced severe trauma in childhood, more than good habits will be needed, even if they're regular with TMSP. Because Maharishi came from a traditional and stable Indian family, he probably wasn't aware of ow dysfunctional families can be in less traditional countries.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
On 10/29/2014 3:40 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Try this on for size for what traditional Indian families are like: /Prejudice is a preconceived judgment toward people or a person because of religion, gender, political opinion, social class, age, disability, sexuality, race/ethnicity, language, nationality or other personal characteristics./ http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-29708612 *From:* Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2014 3:40 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness Share, ever been to India? Hard to imagine that Maharishi didn't have to avoid beggars growing up. So what *is* a traditional Indian family? On 10/29/2014 11:20 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com mailto:sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Nablusoss, all those good habits can definitely help, but if a person has experienced severe trauma in childhood, more than good habits will be needed, even if they're regular with TMSP. Because Maharishi came from a traditional and stable Indian family, he probably wasn't aware of ow dysfunctional families can be in less traditional countries.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
On 10/29/2014 8:51 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: You may not realize this, Michael, but this likely says more about your upbringing than anything else. /Obviously he is prejudiced. He was probably born into a traditional southern family that hated blacks and minorities of all kinds. Let's not forget that S.C. was the location of the first rebellion in the Civil War. He has a lot of baggage to work through. He appears to be almost retarded at times. He's so transparent - posting with the alias of a dead black entertainer tells you a lot about his present mind-set. Go figure./ I don't think this would have popped into anyone elses head as an illustration of a traditional family. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Try this on for size for what traditional Indian families are like: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-29708612 *From:* Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2014 3:40 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness Share, ever been to India? Hard to imagine that Maharishi didn't have to avoid beggars growing up. So what *is* a traditional Indian family? On 10/29/2014 11:20 AM, Share Long sharelong60@... mailto:sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Nablusoss, all those good habits can definitely help, but if a person has experienced severe trauma in childhood, more than good habits will be needed, even if they're regular with TMSP. Because Maharishi came from a traditional and stable Indian family, he probably wasn't aware of ow dysfunctional families can be in less traditional countries.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
Richard and everyone, my computer stopped working last night. I had 174 emails
when I got to the public library this morning! Will try to catch up at some
point. Have fun AND be good (-:
From: 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief
in God is a form of mental illness
On 10/29/2014 8:51 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
You may not realize this, Michael, but this likely says more about your
upbringing than anything else.
Obviously he is prejudiced. He was probably born into a traditional southern
family that hated blacks and minorities of all kinds. Let's not forget that
S.C. was the location of the first rebellion in the Civil War. He has a lot of
baggage to work through. He appears to be almost retarded at times. He's so
transparent - posting with the alias of a dead black entertainer tells you a
lot about his present mind-set. Go figure.
I don't think this would have popped into anyone elses head as an
illustration of a traditional family.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :
Try this on for size for what traditional Indian families are like:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-29708612
From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief
in God is a form of mental illness
Share, ever been to India? Hard to imagine that Maharishi didn't have
to avoid beggars growing up. So what is a traditional Indian family?
On 10/29/2014 11:20 AM, Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
Nablusoss, all those good habits can definitely help, but if a person has
experienced severe trauma in childhood, more than good habits will be needed,
even if they're regular with TMSP. Because Maharishi came from a traditional
and stable Indian family, he probably wasn't aware of ow dysfunctional
families can be in less traditional countries.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
salyavin, the definition of stress that I use: any structural or chemical imbalance in the physiology. Though science can't show us yet, I'd speculate that all personality traits and negative attitudes like arrogance, have a corresponding brain state. On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 1:37 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Salyavin, at a certain point I simply realized that the TMO is an imperfect organization full of imperfect people in an imperfect world. I also think that arrogance, etc. is one of the deepest stresses that a person can have and unstress. I don't like it, but that's how I understand it. Is arrogance a stress? It seems like an unrealistic belief of self-importance people grow up with, probably picked up from parents or schooling. I can't see how it can get into being your mode of operation by stressful means. And as a consequence I would say it's even less likely to get removed by stress reduction techniques. There's a lot of this erroneous thinking in the TMO and I think it's one of the major failings of Marshy's teaching that they can't accept that TM isn't always the answer, not everything bad or un-useful about the personality comes from stress and can therefore be removed by relieving stress. Which is probably one of the things you'll all have to accept in your new-look TMO. It's all for the best. On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 12:20 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : The FairfieldMental Health Alliance October5th Meeting Notes Youasked: What did you think about (the Oct 5 meeting) last night?Lookthis has been about creating change and that meeting was a timelyshowing of some progress of change. The meeting was not theconclusive meeting but it does show the movement has changed some andall the people on stage help show the integration this is taking. Onthe left hand of the stage as the audience viewed it were all thesedifferent practicing clinical professionals who also have integratedalternative modalities in to their practices as they are useful andhave basis, and then Pat on the right side clarifying and holding upthe movement's franchise. Pat did quite a deft job clarifying onbehalf of the movement and Maharishi. Afterall, it was a movementcommunity meeting. Pat is really quite controlled smart, homey,funny, and theatrical all at once. I enjoyed watching him. It was really quite brilliant. This is the second meeting wherehe has spoken for our collective practical concern as to compassionand our working to help people solve mental health issues beingessentially compassionate.. [very buddhistic? ] Itwill be very interesting to hear when that language of compassiongets picked up, adopted and used by spokespersons up the chain of TMcommand. That actually is extremely interesting that he is changingthe inside by leading with that idea. It has always been said that TMis without heart, well then if it is not a trick then we see thismovement of the movement from the upper level around this wholemental health thing is showing some heart, even though it took boxingthem in to a corner to help them show it. This is quite a change. Funny how it hasn't always been there though isn't it? Most spiritual groups take the development of compassion as a given, how can you have personal growth without it? But you are correct, there is precious little of it in the TMO. Far more arrogance, elitism and an almost scary lack of self awareness. Not everyone of course but enough of the teachers to put me off for life. These are the overriding impressions I left the movement with. It was them that undermined the ideal I thought they stood for. How can they change without abandoning the idea that TM is all you need to do? If compassion isn;t there then pretending it is is just mood making surely? You see what I'm getting at, it's a central tenet that you just meditate and act naturally. Maybe you guys are the reformation that changes all that. Questionof course now is the carry-through. There is more work to do tofigure out the practical delivery of policy. The clinic, type ofcredentialed staffing, and how they are going to administrate thosetrip-wire questions on their forms. That MUM student who spoke in the Q and A was veryeffective at holding their feet to the fire once again in public. They got to come up with more compassion to show on that one forpeople to believe them. Itis about showing change on their part. Compassion? Theiradministrative banishing of Tom Allen was not the timely example ofany change there. Opps. An long-time old meditator and yes withcriticisms of the organization which they were soliciting to hear,but an apostate? No, not then. Hurt now? yes. Notgreat timing for the handling of one of the poster persons of Fairfield
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Salyavin, the definition of stress that I use: any structural or chemical imbalance in the physiology. Though science can't show us yet, I'd speculate that all personality traits and negative attitudes like arrogance, have a corresponding brain state. I'm sure everything that happens mentally is a brain state but that doesn't mean it's caused by the brain state or that meditation can change it. Or did I miss something? I've met many arrogant or otherways dysfunctional people who've been doing TM for decades. I think they'll be doing it for lifetimes if they think it will change their personality type. On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 1:37 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Salyavin, at a certain point I simply realized that the TMO is an imperfect organization full of imperfect people in an imperfect world. I also think that arrogance, etc. is one of the deepest stresses that a person can have and unstress. I don't like it, but that's how I understand it. Is arrogance a stress? It seems like an unrealistic belief of self-importance people grow up with, probably picked up from parents or schooling. I can't see how it can get into being your mode of operation by stressful means. And as a consequence I would say it's even less likely to get removed by stress reduction techniques. There's a lot of this erroneous thinking in the TMO and I think it's one of the major failings of Marshy's teaching that they can't accept that TM isn't always the answer, not everything bad or un-useful about the personality comes from stress and can therefore be removed by relieving stress. Which is probably one of the things you'll all have to accept in your new-look TMO. It's all for the best. On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 12:20 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : The Fairfield Mental Health Alliance October 5th Meeting Notes You asked: What did you think about (the Oct 5 meeting) last night? Look this has been about creating change and that meeting was a timely showing of some progress of change. The meeting was not the conclusive meeting but it does show the movement has changed some and all the people on stage help show the integration this is taking. On the left hand of the stage as the audience viewed it were all these different practicing clinical professionals who also have integrated alternative modalities in to their practices as they are useful and have basis, and then Pat on the right side clarifying and holding up the movement's franchise. Pat did quite a deft job clarifying on behalf of the movement and Maharishi. Afterall, it was a movement community meeting. Pat is really quite controlled smart, homey, funny, and theatrical all at once. I enjoyed watching him. It was really quite brilliant. This is the second meeting where he has spoken for our collective practical concern as to compassion and our working to help people solve mental health issues being essentially compassionate.. [very buddhistic? ] It will be very interesting to hear when that language of compassion gets picked up, adopted and used by spokespersons up the chain of TM command. That actually is extremely interesting that he is changing the inside by leading with that idea. It has always been said that TM is without heart, well then if it is not a trick then we see this movement of the movement from the upper level around this whole mental health thing is showing some heart, even though it took boxing them in to a corner to help them show it. This is quite a change. Funny how it hasn't always been there though isn't it? Most spiritual groups take the development of compassion as a given, how can you have personal growth without it? But you are correct, there is precious little of it in the TMO. Far more arrogance, elitism and an almost scary lack of self awareness. Not everyone of course but enough of the teachers to put me off for life. These are the overriding impressions I left the movement with. It was them that undermined the ideal I thought they stood for. How can they change without abandoning the idea that TM is all you need to do? If compassion isn;t there then pretending it is is just mood making surely? You see what I'm getting at, it's a central tenet that you just meditate and act naturally. Maybe you guys are the reformation that changes all that. Question of course now is the carry-through. There is more work to do to figure out the practical delivery of policy. The clinic, type of credentialed staffing, and how they are going to administrate those trip-wire questions on their forms. That MUM student who spoke in the Q and A was very effective at holding their feet to
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
salyavin, for good emotional health, I think some people definitely need to do more than practice TM. That's one of the misunderstanding that the current mental health group is hoping to correct. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Salyavin, the definition of stress that I use: any structural or chemical imbalance in the physiology. Though science can't show us yet, I'd speculate that all personality traits and negative attitudes like arrogance, have a corresponding brain state. I'm sure everything that happens mentally is a brain state but that doesn't mean it's caused by the brain state or that meditation can change it. Or did I miss something? I've met many arrogant or otherways dysfunctional people who've been doing TM for decades. I think they'll be doing it for lifetimes if they think it will change their personality type. On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 1:37 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Salyavin, at a certain point I simply realized that the TMO is an imperfect organization full of imperfect people in an imperfect world. I also think that arrogance, etc. is one of the deepest stresses that a person can have and unstress. I don't like it, but that's how I understand it. Is arrogance a stress? It seems like an unrealistic belief of self-importance people grow up with, probably picked up from parents or schooling. I can't see how it can get into being your mode of operation by stressful means. And as a consequence I would say it's even less likely to get removed by stress reduction techniques. There's a lot of this erroneous thinking in the TMO and I think it's one of the major failings of Marshy's teaching that they can't accept that TM isn't always the answer, not everything bad or un-useful about the personality comes from stress and can therefore be removed by relieving stress. Which is probably one of the things you'll all have to accept in your new-look TMO. It's all for the best. On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 12:20 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : The FairfieldMental Health Alliance October5th Meeting Notes Youasked: What did you think about (the Oct 5 meeting) last night?Lookthis has been about creating change and that meeting was a timelyshowing of some progress of change. The meeting was not theconclusive meeting but it does show the movement has changed some andall the people on stage help show the integration this is taking. Onthe left hand of the stage as the audience viewed it were all thesedifferent practicing clinical professionals who also have integratedalternative modalities in to their practices as they are useful andhave basis, and then Pat on the right side clarifying and holding upthe movement's franchise. Pat did quite a deft job clarifying onbehalf of the movement and Maharishi. Afterall, it was a movementcommunity meeting. Pat is really quite controlled smart, homey,funny, and theatrical all at once. I enjoyed watching him. It was really quite brilliant. This is the second meeting wherehe has spoken for our collective practical concern as to compassionand our working to help people solve mental health issues beingessentially compassionate.. [very buddhistic? ] Itwill be very interesting to hear when that language of compassiongets picked up, adopted and used by spokespersons up the chain of TMcommand. That actually is extremely interesting that he is changingthe inside by leading with that idea. It has always been said that TMis without heart, well then if it is not a trick then we see thismovement of the movement from the upper level around this wholemental health thing is showing some heart, even though it took boxingthem in to a corner to help them show it. This is quite a change. Funny how it hasn't always been there though isn't it? Most spiritual groups take the development of compassion as a given, how can you have personal growth without it? But you are correct, there is precious little of it in the TMO. Far more arrogance, elitism and an almost scary lack of self awareness. Not everyone of course but enough of the teachers to put me off for life. These are the overriding impressions I left the movement with. It was them that undermined the ideal I thought they stood for. How can they change without abandoning the idea that TM is all you need to do? If compassion isn;t there then pretending it is is just mood making surely? You see what I'm getting at, it's a central tenet that you just meditate and act naturally. Maybe you guys are
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, for good emotional health, I think some people definitely need to do more than practice TM. That's one of the misunderstanding that the current mental health group is hoping to correct. Or more importantly; lead a regular life, early to bed, regular programme at set times and prefferably having a checking from time to time. Those few I've run into that developed developed problems all had two things in common; they had mental problems already in childhood AND they meditated more that they were told. Everyone should do what Maharishi asked them to do, not adding anything. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Salyavin, the definition of stress that I use: any structural or chemical imbalance in the physiology. Though science can't show us yet, I'd speculate that all personality traits and negative attitudes like arrogance, have a corresponding brain state. I'm sure everything that happens mentally is a brain state but that doesn't mean it's caused by the brain state or that meditation can change it. Or did I miss something? I've met many arrogant or otherways dysfunctional people who've been doing TM for decades. I think they'll be doing it for lifetimes if they think it will change their personality type. On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 1:37 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Salyavin, at a certain point I simply realized that the TMO is an imperfect organization full of imperfect people in an imperfect world. I also think that arrogance, etc. is one of the deepest stresses that a person can have and unstress. I don't like it, but that's how I understand it. Is arrogance a stress? It seems like an unrealistic belief of self-importance people grow up with, probably picked up from parents or schooling. I can't see how it can get into being your mode of operation by stressful means. And as a consequence I would say it's even less likely to get removed by stress reduction techniques. There's a lot of this erroneous thinking in the TMO and I think it's one of the major failings of Marshy's teaching that they can't accept that TM isn't always the answer, not everything bad or un-useful about the personality comes from stress and can therefore be removed by relieving stress. Which is probably one of the things you'll all have to accept in your new-look TMO. It's all for the best. On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 12:20 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : The Fairfield Mental Health Alliance October 5th Meeting Notes You asked: What did you think about (the Oct 5 meeting) last night? Look this has been about creating change and that meeting was a timely showing of some progress of change. The meeting was not the conclusive meeting but it does show the movement has changed some and all the people on stage help show the integration this is taking. On the left hand of the stage as the audience viewed it were all these different practicing clinical professionals who also have integrated alternative modalities in to their practices as they are useful and have basis, and then Pat on the right side clarifying and holding up the movement's franchise. Pat did quite a deft job clarifying on behalf of the movement and Maharishi. Afterall, it was a movement community meeting. Pat is really quite controlled smart, homey, funny, and theatrical all at once. I enjoyed watching him. It was really quite brilliant. This is the second meeting where he has spoken for our collective practical concern as to compassion and our working to help people solve mental health issues being essentially compassionate.. [very buddhistic? ] It will be very interesting to hear when that language of compassion gets picked up, adopted and used by spokespersons up the chain of TM command. That actually is extremely interesting that he is changing the inside by leading with that idea. It has always been said that TM is without heart, well then if it is not a trick then we see this movement of the movement from the upper level around this whole mental health thing is showing some heart, even though it took boxing them in to a corner to help them show it. This is quite a change. Funny how it hasn't always been there though isn't it? Most spiritual groups take the development of compassion as a given, how can you have personal growth without it? But you are correct, there is precious little of it in the TMO. Far more
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
Nablusoss, all those good habits can definitely help, but if a person has experienced severe trauma in childhood, more than good habits will be needed, even if they're regular with TMSP. Because Maharishi came from a traditional and stable Indian family, he probably wasn't aware of ow dysfunctional families can be in less traditional countries. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, for good emotional health, I think some people definitely need to do more than practice TM. That's one of the misunderstanding that the current mental health group is hoping to correct. Or more importantly; lead a regular life, early to bed, regular programme at set times and prefferably having a checking from time to time. Those few I've run into that developed developed problems all had two things in common; they had mental problems already in childhood AND they meditated more that they were told. Everyone should do what Maharishi asked them to do, not adding anything. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Salyavin, the definition of stress that I use: any structural or chemical imbalance in the physiology. Though science can't show us yet, I'd speculate that all personality traits and negative attitudes like arrogance, have a corresponding brain state. I'm sure everything that happens mentally is a brain state but that doesn't mean it's caused by the brain state or that meditation can change it. Or did I miss something? I've met many arrogant or otherways dysfunctional people who've been doing TM for decades. I think they'll be doing it for lifetimes if they think it will change their personality type. On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 1:37 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Salyavin, at a certain point I simply realized that the TMO is an imperfect organization full of imperfect people in an imperfect world. I also think that arrogance, etc. is one of the deepest stresses that a person can have and unstress. I don't like it, but that's how I understand it. Is arrogance a stress? It seems like an unrealistic belief of self-importance people grow up with, probably picked up from parents or schooling. I can't see how it can get into being your mode of operation by stressful means. And as a consequence I would say it's even less likely to get removed by stress reduction techniques. There's a lot of this erroneous thinking in the TMO and I think it's one of the major failings of Marshy's teaching that they can't accept that TM isn't always the answer, not everything bad or un-useful about the personality comes from stress and can therefore be removed by relieving stress. Which is probably one of the things you'll all have to accept in your new-look TMO. It's all for the best. On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 12:20 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : The FairfieldMental Health Alliance October5th Meeting Notes Youasked: What did you think about (the Oct 5 meeting) last night?Lookthis has been about creating change and that meeting was a timelyshowing of some progress of change. The meeting was not theconclusive meeting but it does show the movement has changed some andall the people on stage help show the integration this is taking. Onthe left hand of the stage as the audience viewed it were all thesedifferent practicing clinical professionals who also have integratedalternative modalities in to their practices as they are useful andhave basis, and then Pat on the right side clarifying and holding upthe movement's franchise. Pat did quite a deft job clarifying onbehalf of the movement and Maharishi. Afterall, it was a movementcommunity meeting. Pat is really quite controlled smart, homey,funny, and theatrical all at once. I enjoyed watching him. It was really quite brilliant. This is the second meeting wherehe has spoken for our collective practical concern as to compassionand our working to help people solve mental health issues beingessentially compassionate.. [very buddhistic? ] Itwill be very interesting to hear when that language of compassiongets picked up, adopted and used by spokespersons up the chain of TMcommand. That actually is extremely interesting that he is changingthe inside by leading with that idea. It has always
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
How in the name of God or anything else can you possibly know what Marshy's family was or was like? You are making up crap that fits your fantasy. As is Nappy who is by far one of the most if not the most pitiful denizens of FFL. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness Nablusoss, all those good habits can definitely help, but if a person has experienced severe trauma in childhood, more than good habits will be needed, even if they're regular with TMSP. Because Maharishi came from a traditional and stable Indian family, he probably wasn't aware of ow dysfunctional families can be in less traditional countries. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, for good emotional health, I think some people definitely need to do more than practice TM. That's one of the misunderstanding that the current mental health group is hoping to correct. Or more importantly; lead a regular life, early to bed, regular programme at set times and prefferably having a checking from time to time. Those few I've run into that developed developed problems all had two things in common; they had mental problems already in childhood AND they meditated more that they were told. Everyone should do what Maharishi asked them to do, not adding anything. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Salyavin, the definition of stress that I use: any structural or chemical imbalance in the physiology. Though science can't show us yet, I'd speculate that all personality traits and negative attitudes like arrogance, have a corresponding brain state. I'm sure everything that happens mentally is a brain state but that doesn't mean it's caused by the brain state or that meditation can change it. Or did I miss something? I've met many arrogant or otherways dysfunctional people who've been doing TM for decades. I think they'll be doing it for lifetimes if they think it will change their personality type. On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 1:37 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Salyavin, at a certain point I simply realized that the TMO is an imperfect organization full of imperfect people in an imperfect world. I also think that arrogance, etc. is one of the deepest stresses that a person can have and unstress. I don't like it, but that's how I understand it. Is arrogance a stress? It seems like an unrealistic belief of self-importance people grow up with, probably picked up from parents or schooling. I can't see how it can get into being your mode of operation by stressful means. And as a consequence I would say it's even less likely to get removed by stress reduction techniques. There's a lot of this erroneous thinking in the TMO and I think it's one of the major failings of Marshy's teaching that they can't accept that TM isn't always the answer, not everything bad or un-useful about the personality comes from stress and can therefore be removed by relieving stress. Which is probably one of the things you'll all have to accept in your new-look TMO. It's all for the best. On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 12:20 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : The Fairfield Mental Health Alliance October 5th Meeting Notes You asked: What did you think about (the Oct 5 meeting) last night? Look this has been about creating change and that meeting was a timely showing of some progress of change. The meeting was not the conclusive meeting but it does show the movement has changed some and all the people on stage help show the integration this is taking. On the left hand of the stage as the audience viewed it were all these different practicing clinical professionals who also have integrated alternative modalities in to their practices as they are useful and have basis, and then Pat on the right side clarifying and holding up the movement's franchise. Pat did quite a deft job clarifying on behalf of the movement and Maharishi. Afterall, it was a movement community meeting. Pat
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
Share, ever been to India? Hard to imagine that Maharishi didn't have to avoid beggars growing up. So what *is* a traditional Indian family? On 10/29/2014 11:20 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Nablusoss, all those good habits can definitely help, but if a person has experienced severe trauma in childhood, more than good habits will be needed, even if they're regular with TMSP. Because Maharishi came from a traditional and stable Indian family, he probably wasn't aware of ow dysfunctional families can be in less traditional countries.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
Well, Bhairitu, he went to university and then they expected him to get
married. Seems pretty traditional to me.
From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief
in God is a form of mental illness
Share, ever been to India? Hard to imagine that Maharishi didn't have to
avoid beggars growing up. So what is a traditional Indian family?
On 10/29/2014 11:20 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
Nablusoss, all those good habits can definitely help, but if a person has
experienced severe trauma in childhood, more than good habits will be needed,
even if they're regular with TMSP. Because Maharishi came from a traditional
and stable Indian family, he probably wasn't aware of ow dysfunctional
families can be in less traditional countries.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
Try this on for size for what traditional Indian families are like: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-29708612 From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness Share, ever been to India? Hard to imagine that Maharishi didn't have to avoid beggars growing up. So what is a traditional Indian family? On 10/29/2014 11:20 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Nablusoss, all those good habits can definitely help, but if a person has experienced severe trauma in childhood, more than good habits will be needed, even if they're regular with TMSP. Because Maharishi came from a traditional and stable Indian family, he probably wasn't aware of ow dysfunctional families can be in less traditional countries.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
On 10/29/2014 2:00 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: How in the name of God or anything else can you possibly know what Marshy's family was or was like? You are making up crap that fits your fantasy. As is Nappy who is by far one of the most if not the most pitiful denizens of FFL. You need to face reality and get a grip! You were kicked out of the TMO and you are out. You sucked s a baker and a dishwasher. You suck as an informant. YOU WILL NEVER BAKE COOKIES ON THE MUM CAMPUS AGAIN. *From:* Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2014 2:20 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness Nablusoss, all those good habits can definitely help, but if a person has experienced severe trauma in childhood, more than good habits will be needed, even if they're regular with TMSP. Because Maharishi came from a traditional and stable Indian family, he probably wasn't aware of ow dysfunctional families can be in less traditional countries. *From:* nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2014 12:59 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, for good emotional health, I think some people definitely need to do more than practice TM. That's one of the misunderstanding that the current mental health group is hoping to correct. Or more importantly; lead a regular life, early to bed, regular programme at set times and prefferably having a checking from time to time. Those few I've run into that developed developed problems all had two things in common; they had mental problems already in childhood AND they meditated more that they were told. Everyone should do what Maharishi asked them to do, not adding anything. *From:* salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2014 11:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Salyavin, the definition of stress that I use: any structural or chemical imbalance in the physiology. Though science can't show us yet, I'd speculate that all personality traits and negative attitudes like arrogance, have a corresponding brain state. I'm sure everything that happens mentally is a brain state but that doesn't mean it's caused by the brain state or that meditation can change it. Or did I miss something? I've met many arrogant or otherways dysfunctional people who've been doing TM for decades. I think they'll be doing it for lifetimes if they think it will change their personality type. On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 1:37 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Salyavin, at a certain point I simply realized that the TMO is an imperfect organization full of imperfect people in an imperfect world. I also think that arrogance, etc. is one of the deepest stresses that a person can have and unstress. I don't like it, but that's how I understand it. Is arrogance a stress? It seems like an unrealistic belief of self-importance people grow up with, probably picked up from parents or schooling. I can't see how it can get into being your mode of operation by stressful means. And as a consequence I would say it's even less likely to get removed by stress reduction techniques. There's a lot of this erroneous thinking in the TMO and I think it's one of the major failings of Marshy's teaching that they can't accept that TM isn't always the answer, not everything bad or un-useful about the personality comes from stress and can therefore be removed by relieving stress. Which is probably one of the things you'll all have to accept in your new-look TMO. It's all for the best. On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 12:20 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : The Fairfield Mental Health Alliance October 5^th Meeting Notes You asked: What did you think about (the Oct 5 meeting) last night? Look this has been about creating change and that meeting was a timely showing of some progress of change. The meeting was not the conclusive meeting but it does show the movement has changed some and all the people on stage help show the integration this is taking. On the left hand of the stage as the audience viewed it
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
On 10/29/2014 2:40 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] wrote: Share, ever been to India? /Non sequitur. / Hard to imagine that Maharishi didn't have to avoid beggars growing up. /Non sequitur. / So what *is* a traditional Indian family? /Like the one the Maharishi came from?/ On 10/29/2014 11:20 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Nablusoss, all those good habits can definitely help, but if a person has experienced severe trauma in childhood, more than good habits will be needed, even if they're regular with TMSP. Because Maharishi came from a traditional and stable Indian family, he probably wasn't aware of ow dysfunctional families can be in less traditional countries.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
You may not realize this, Michael, but this likely says more about your upbringing than anything else. I don't think this would have popped into anyone elses head as an illustration of a traditional family. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Try this on for size for what traditional Indian families are like: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-29708612 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-29708612 From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness Share, ever been to India? Hard to imagine that Maharishi didn't have to avoid beggars growing up. So what is a traditional Indian family? On 10/29/2014 11:20 AM, Share Long sharelong60@... mailto:sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Nablusoss, all those good habits can definitely help, but if a person has experienced severe trauma in childhood, more than good habits will be needed, even if they're regular with TMSP. Because Maharishi came from a traditional and stable Indian family, he probably wasn't aware of ow dysfunctional families can be in less traditional countries.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : The Fairfield Mental Health Alliance October 5th Meeting Notes You asked: What did you think about (the Oct 5 meeting) last night? Look this has been about creating change and that meeting was a timely showing of some progress of change. The meeting was not the conclusive meeting but it does show the movement has changed some and all the people on stage help show the integration this is taking. On the left hand of the stage as the audience viewed it were all these different practicing clinical professionals who also have integrated alternative modalities in to their practices as they are useful and have basis, and then Pat on the right side clarifying and holding up the movement's franchise. Pat did quite a deft job clarifying on behalf of the movement and Maharishi. Afterall, it was a movement community meeting. Pat is really quite controlled smart, homey, funny, and theatrical all at once. I enjoyed watching him. It was really quite brilliant. This is the second meeting where he has spoken for our collective practical concern as to compassion and our working to help people solve mental health issues being essentially compassionate.. [very buddhistic? ] It will be very interesting to hear when that language of compassion gets picked up, adopted and used by spokespersons up the chain of TM command. That actually is extremely interesting that he is changing the inside by leading with that idea. It has always been said that TM is without heart, well then if it is not a trick then we see this movement of the movement from the upper level around this whole mental health thing is showing some heart, even though it took boxing them in to a corner to help them show it. This is quite a change. Funny how it hasn't always been there though isn't it? Most spiritual groups take the development of compassion as a given, how can you have personal growth without it? But you are correct, there is precious little of it in the TMO. Far more arrogance, elitism and an almost scary lack of self awareness. Not everyone of course but enough of the teachers to put me off for life. These are the overriding impressions I left the movement with. It was them that undermined the ideal I thought they stood for. How can they change without abandoning the idea that TM is all you need to do? If compassion isn;t there then pretending it is is just mood making surely? You see what I'm getting at, it's a central tenet that you just meditate and act naturally. Maybe you guys are the reformation that changes all that. Question of course now is the carry-through. There is more work to do to figure out the practical delivery of policy. The clinic, type of credentialed staffing, and how they are going to administrate those trip-wire questions on their forms. That MUM student who spoke in the Q and A was very effective at holding their feet to the fire once again in public. They got to come up with more compassion to show on that one for people to believe them. It is about showing change on their part. Compassion? Their administrative banishing of Tom Allen was not the timely example of any change there. Opps. An long-time old meditator and yes with criticisms of the organization which they were soliciting to hear, but an apostate? No, not then. Hurt now? yes. Not great timing for the handling of one of the poster persons of Fairfield Cares. It always baffled me that so many people are banished from the movement, shouldn't it all be hunky dory and brotherly love? My question to a particularly arrogant TM teacher who boasted about how many people he'd had kicked out (completely unreasonably I might add) was: Where are you going to send people in the age of enlightenment? Is there some sort of island unaffected by coherence waves they can all sit and regret not conforming to Marshy's ideals? Maybe what you've started is a way for the TMO to look at itself and the effect TM has on people, and how the power structure fails to produce the sort of results you'd expect from a supposedly higher teaching. Maybe you'll end up with a realistic appraisal of benefits to offer people so they don't get all excited and carried away about the hyperbole and consequently get so fed up a few years later. Criticism can only be a good thing here, it seems to me there are a lot of sacred cows to be led off to the slaughterhouse but if they aren't real and serve only to a) make money, and b) lead people into thinking there is more to TM than you've got a reasonable right to claim, then it's a good thing because you won't be too embarrassed to mention it any more. No more hiding yagya's and raja's from Oprah when she comes round. But yes, TM will be just another moderately effective meditation technique in the market place. Is that so bad? Incrementally the meeting was an
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
My question to a particularly arrogant TM teacher who boasted about how many people he'd had kicked out (completely unreasonably I might add) was: Where are you going to send people in the age of enlightenment? Is there some sort of island unaffected by coherence waves they can all sit and regret not conforming to Marshy's ideals? What was his answer?? From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 1:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : The Fairfield Mental Health Alliance October 5th Meeting Notes You asked: What did you think about (the Oct 5 meeting) last night? Look this has been about creating change and that meeting was a timely showing of some progress of change. The meeting was not the conclusive meeting but it does show the movement has changed some and all the people on stage help show the integration this is taking. On the left hand of the stage as the audience viewed it were all these different practicing clinical professionals who also have integrated alternative modalities in to their practices as they are useful and have basis, and then Pat on the right side clarifying and holding up the movement's franchise. Pat did quite a deft job clarifying on behalf of the movement and Maharishi. Afterall, it was a movement community meeting. Pat is really quite controlled smart, homey, funny, and theatrical all at once. I enjoyed watching him. It was really quite brilliant. This is the second meeting where he has spoken for our collective practical concern as to compassion and our working to help people solve mental health issues being essentially compassionate.. [very buddhistic? ] It will be very interesting to hear when that language of compassion gets picked up, adopted and used by spokespersons up the chain of TM command. That actually is extremely interesting that he is changing the inside by leading with that idea. It has always been said that TM is without heart, well then if it is not a trick then we see this movement of the movement from the upper level around this whole mental health thing is showing some heart, even though it took boxing them in to a corner to help them show it. This is quite a change. Funny how it hasn't always been there though isn't it? Most spiritual groups take the development of compassion as a given, how can you have personal growth without it? But you are correct, there is precious little of it in the TMO. Far more arrogance, elitism and an almost scary lack of self awareness. Not everyone of course but enough of the teachers to put me off for life. These are the overriding impressions I left the movement with. It was them that undermined the ideal I thought they stood for. How can they change without abandoning the idea that TM is all you need to do? If compassion isn;t there then pretending it is is just mood making surely? You see what I'm getting at, it's a central tenet that you just meditate and act naturally. Maybe you guys are the reformation that changes all that. Question of course now is the carry-through. There is more work to do to figure out the practical delivery of policy. The clinic, type of credentialed staffing, and how they are going to administrate those trip-wire questions on their forms. That MUM student who spoke in the Q and A was very effective at holding their feet to the fire once again in public. They got to come up with more compassion to show on that one for people to believe them. It is about showing change on their part. Compassion? Their administrative banishing of Tom Allen was not the timely example of any change there. Opps. An long-time old meditator and yes with criticisms of the organization which they were soliciting to hear, but an apostate? No, not then. Hurt now? yes. Not great timing for the handling of one of the poster persons of Fairfield Cares. It always baffled me that so many people are banished from the movement, shouldn't it all be hunky dory and brotherly love? My question to a particularly arrogant TM teacher who boasted about how many people he'd had kicked out (completely unreasonably I might add) was: Where are you going to send people in the age of enlightenment? Is there some sort of island unaffected by coherence waves they can all sit and regret not conforming to Marshy's ideals? Maybe what you've started is a way for the TMO to look at itself and the effect TM has on people, and how the power structure fails to produce the sort of results you'd expect from a supposedly higher teaching. Maybe you'll end up with a realistic appraisal of benefits to offer people so they don't get all excited and carried away about the hyperbole and consequently get so fed up a few years later. Criticism
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
salyavin, at a certain point I simply realized that the TMO is an imperfect organization full of imperfect people in an imperfect world. I also think that arrogance, etc. is one of the deepest stresses that a person can have and unstress. I don't like it, but that's how I understand it. On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 12:20 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : The FairfieldMental Health Alliance October5th Meeting Notes Youasked: What did you think about (the Oct 5 meeting) last night?Lookthis has been about creating change and that meeting was a timelyshowing of some progress of change. The meeting was not theconclusive meeting but it does show the movement has changed some andall the people on stage help show the integration this is taking. Onthe left hand of the stage as the audience viewed it were all thesedifferent practicing clinical professionals who also have integratedalternative modalities in to their practices as they are useful andhave basis, and then Pat on the right side clarifying and holding upthe movement's franchise. Pat did quite a deft job clarifying onbehalf of the movement and Maharishi. Afterall, it was a movementcommunity meeting. Pat is really quite controlled smart, homey,funny, and theatrical all at once. I enjoyed watching him. It was really quite brilliant. This is the second meeting wherehe has spoken for our collective practical concern as to compassionand our working to help people solve mental health issues beingessentially compassionate.. [very buddhistic? ] Itwill be very interesting to hear when that language of compassiongets picked up, adopted and used by spokespersons up the chain of TMcommand. That actually is extremely interesting that he is changingthe inside by leading with that idea. It has always been said that TMis without heart, well then if it is not a trick then we see thismovement of the movement from the upper level around this wholemental health thing is showing some heart, even though it took boxingthem in to a corner to help them show it. This is quite a change. Funny how it hasn't always been there though isn't it? Most spiritual groups take the development of compassion as a given, how can you have personal growth without it? But you are correct, there is precious little of it in the TMO. Far more arrogance, elitism and an almost scary lack of self awareness. Not everyone of course but enough of the teachers to put me off for life. These are the overriding impressions I left the movement with. It was them that undermined the ideal I thought they stood for. How can they change without abandoning the idea that TM is all you need to do? If compassion isn;t there then pretending it is is just mood making surely? You see what I'm getting at, it's a central tenet that you just meditate and act naturally. Maybe you guys are the reformation that changes all that. Questionof course now is the carry-through. There is more work to do tofigure out the practical delivery of policy. The clinic, type ofcredentialed staffing, and how they are going to administrate thosetrip-wire questions on their forms. That MUM student who spoke in the Q and A was veryeffective at holding their feet to the fire once again in public. They got to come up with more compassion to show on that one forpeople to believe them. Itis about showing change on their part. Compassion? Theiradministrative banishing of Tom Allen was not the timely example ofany change there. Opps. An long-time old meditator and yes withcriticisms of the organization which they were soliciting to hear,but an apostate? No, not then. Hurt now? yes. Notgreat timing for the handling of one of the poster persons of Fairfield Cares. It always baffled me that so many people are banished from the movement, shouldn't it all be hunky dory and brotherly love? My question to a particularly arrogant TM teacher who boasted about how many people he'd had kicked out (completely unreasonably I might add) was: Where are you going to send people in the age of enlightenment? Is there some sort of island unaffected by coherence waves they can all sit and regret not conforming to Marshy's ideals? Maybe what you've started is a way for the TMO to look at itself and the effect TM has on people, and how the power structure fails to produce the sort of results you'd expect from a supposedly higher teaching. Maybe you'll end up with a realistic appraisal of benefits to offer people so they don't get all excited and carried away about the hyperbole and consequently get so fed up a few years later. Criticism can only be a good thing here, it seems to me there are a lot of sacred cows to be led off to the slaughterhouse but if they aren't real and serve only to a) make money, and b) lead people into thinking there is more to TM than you've got a reasonable right to claim,
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : My question to a particularly arrogant TM teacher who boasted about how many people he'd had kicked out (completely unreasonably I might add) was: Where are you going to send people in the age of enlightenment? Is there some sort of island unaffected by coherence waves they can all sit and regret not conforming to Marshy's ideals? What was his answer?? Quite a funny conversation actually, I really don't think he'd ever considered it before. If people transgressed what he saw as the highest ideals we should all strive for then they could find themselves out the door. He just assumed their lack of moral fibre was a symptom of lower consciousness and, come the glorious day, they will all have evolved to match us superior types who are already there (or not). It all struck me as a funny way to carry on but I had a lot of good chats with him, he declared that if anyone could prove that it was all a load of crap then he'd turn round and walk away without a second thought. I had a good go at convincing him but his faith was stronger than he thought. Or my arguments were less effective than I thought! From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 1:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : The Fairfield Mental Health Alliance October 5th Meeting Notes You asked: What did you think about (the Oct 5 meeting) last night? Look this has been about creating change and that meeting was a timely showing of some progress of change. The meeting was not the conclusive meeting but it does show the movement has changed some and all the people on stage help show the integration this is taking. On the left hand of the stage as the audience viewed it were all these different practicing clinical professionals who also have integrated alternative modalities in to their practices as they are useful and have basis, and then Pat on the right side clarifying and holding up the movement's franchise. Pat did quite a deft job clarifying on behalf of the movement and Maharishi. Afterall, it was a movement community meeting. Pat is really quite controlled smart, homey, funny, and theatrical all at once. I enjoyed watching him. It was really quite brilliant. This is the second meeting where he has spoken for our collective practical concern as to compassion and our working to help people solve mental health issues being essentially compassionate.. [very buddhistic? ] It will be very interesting to hear when that language of compassion gets picked up, adopted and used by spokespersons up the chain of TM command. That actually is extremely interesting that he is changing the inside by leading with that idea. It has always been said that TM is without heart, well then if it is not a trick then we see this movement of the movement from the upper level around this whole mental health thing is showing some heart, even though it took boxing them in to a corner to help them show it. This is quite a change. Funny how it hasn't always been there though isn't it? Most spiritual groups take the development of compassion as a given, how can you have personal growth without it? But you are correct, there is precious little of it in the TMO. Far more arrogance, elitism and an almost scary lack of self awareness. Not everyone of course but enough of the teachers to put me off for life. These are the overriding impressions I left the movement with. It was them that undermined the ideal I thought they stood for. How can they change without abandoning the idea that TM is all you need to do? If compassion isn;t there then pretending it is is just mood making surely? You see what I'm getting at, it's a central tenet that you just meditate and act naturally. Maybe you guys are the reformation that changes all that. Question of course now is the carry-through. There is more work to do to figure out the practical delivery of policy. The clinic, type of credentialed staffing, and how they are going to administrate those trip-wire questions on their forms. That MUM student who spoke in the Q and A was very effective at holding their feet to the fire once again in public. They got to come up with more compassion to show on that one for people to believe them. It is about showing change on their part. Compassion? Their administrative banishing of Tom Allen was not the timely example of any change there. Opps. An long-time old meditator and yes with criticisms of the organization which they were soliciting to hear, but an apostate? No, not then. Hurt now? yes. Not great timing for the handling of one of the poster persons of Fairfield Cares. It
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Salyavin, at a certain point I simply realized that the TMO is an imperfect organization full of imperfect people in an imperfect world. I also think that arrogance, etc. is one of the deepest stresses that a person can have and unstress. I don't like it, but that's how I understand it. Is arrogance a stress? It seems like an unrealistic belief of self-importance people grow up with, probably picked up from parents or schooling. I can't see how it can get into being your mode of operation by stressful means. And as a consequence I would say it's even less likely to get removed by stress reduction techniques. There's a lot of this erroneous thinking in the TMO and I think it's one of the major failings of Marshy's teaching that they can't accept that TM isn't always the answer, not everything bad or un-useful about the personality comes from stress and can therefore be removed by relieving stress. Which is probably one of the things you'll all have to accept in your new-look TMO. It's all for the best. On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 12:20 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : The Fairfield Mental Health Alliance October 5th Meeting Notes You asked: What did you think about (the Oct 5 meeting) last night? Look this has been about creating change and that meeting was a timely showing of some progress of change. The meeting was not the conclusive meeting but it does show the movement has changed some and all the people on stage help show the integration this is taking. On the left hand of the stage as the audience viewed it were all these different practicing clinical professionals who also have integrated alternative modalities in to their practices as they are useful and have basis, and then Pat on the right side clarifying and holding up the movement's franchise. Pat did quite a deft job clarifying on behalf of the movement and Maharishi. Afterall, it was a movement community meeting. Pat is really quite controlled smart, homey, funny, and theatrical all at once. I enjoyed watching him. It was really quite brilliant. This is the second meeting where he has spoken for our collective practical concern as to compassion and our working to help people solve mental health issues being essentially compassionate.. [very buddhistic? ] It will be very interesting to hear when that language of compassion gets picked up, adopted and used by spokespersons up the chain of TM command. That actually is extremely interesting that he is changing the inside by leading with that idea. It has always been said that TM is without heart, well then if it is not a trick then we see this movement of the movement from the upper level around this whole mental health thing is showing some heart, even though it took boxing them in to a corner to help them show it. This is quite a change. Funny how it hasn't always been there though isn't it? Most spiritual groups take the development of compassion as a given, how can you have personal growth without it? But you are correct, there is precious little of it in the TMO. Far more arrogance, elitism and an almost scary lack of self awareness. Not everyone of course but enough of the teachers to put me off for life. These are the overriding impressions I left the movement with. It was them that undermined the ideal I thought they stood for. How can they change without abandoning the idea that TM is all you need to do? If compassion isn;t there then pretending it is is just mood making surely? You see what I'm getting at, it's a central tenet that you just meditate and act naturally. Maybe you guys are the reformation that changes all that. Question of course now is the carry-through. There is more work to do to figure out the practical delivery of policy. The clinic, type of credentialed staffing, and how they are going to administrate those trip-wire questions on their forms. That MUM student who spoke in the Q and A was very effective at holding their feet to the fire once again in public. They got to come up with more compassion to show on that one for people to believe them. It is about showing change on their part. Compassion? Their administrative banishing of Tom Allen was not the timely example of any change there. Opps. An long-time old meditator and yes with criticisms of the organization which they were soliciting to hear, but an apostate? No, not then. Hurt now? yes. Not great timing for the handling of one of the poster persons of Fairfield Cares. It always baffled me that so many people are banished from the movement, shouldn't it all be hunky dory and brotherly love? My question to a particularly arrogant TM teacher who boasted about how many people he'd had kicked out (completely unreasonably I
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness
I'll go a round or two with him - tell him to look me up anytime. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : My question to a particularly arrogant TM teacher who boasted about how many people he'd had kicked out (completely unreasonably I might add) was: Where are you going to send people in the age of enlightenment? Is there some sort of island unaffected by coherence waves they can all sit and regret not conforming to Marshy's ideals? What was his answer?? Quite a funny conversation actually, I really don't think he'd ever considered it before. If people transgressed what he saw as the highest ideals we should all strive for then they could find themselves out the door. He just assumed their lack of moral fibre was a symptom of lower consciousness and, come the glorious day, they will all have evolved to match us superior types who are already there (or not). It all struck me as a funny way to carry on but I had a lot of good chats with him, he declared that if anyone could prove that it was all a load of crap then he'd turn round and walk away without a second thought. I had a good go at convincing him but his faith was stronger than he thought. Or my arguments were less effective than I thought! From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 1:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Mental Health, Hating, Turq, and Belief in God is a form of mental illness ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : The Fairfield Mental Health Alliance October 5th Meeting Notes You asked: What did you think about (the Oct 5 meeting) last night? Look this has been about creating change and that meeting was a timely showing of some progress of change. The meeting was not the conclusive meeting but it does show the movement has changed some and all the people on stage help show the integration this is taking. On the left hand of the stage as the audience viewed it were all these different practicing clinical professionals who also have integrated alternative modalities in to their practices as they are useful and have basis, and then Pat on the right side clarifying and holding up the movement's franchise. Pat did quite a deft job clarifying on behalf of the movement and Maharishi. Afterall, it was a movement community meeting. Pat is really quite controlled smart, homey, funny, and theatrical all at once. I enjoyed watching him. It was really quite brilliant. This is the second meeting where he has spoken for our collective practical concern as to compassion and our working to help people solve mental health issues being essentially compassionate.. [very buddhistic? ] It will be very interesting to hear when that language of compassion gets picked up, adopted and used by spokespersons up the chain of TM command. That actually is extremely interesting that he is changing the inside by leading with that idea. It has always been said that TM is without heart, well then if it is not a trick then we see this movement of the movement from the upper level around this whole mental health thing is showing some heart, even though it took boxing them in to a corner to help them show it. This is quite a change. Funny how it hasn't always been there though isn't it? Most spiritual groups take the development of compassion as a given, how can you have personal growth without it? But you are correct, there is precious little of it in the TMO. Far more arrogance, elitism and an almost scary lack of self awareness. Not everyone of course but enough of the teachers to put me off for life. These are the overriding impressions I left the movement with. It was them that undermined the ideal I thought they stood for. How can they change without abandoning the idea that TM is all you need to do? If compassion isn;t there then pretending it is is just mood making surely? You see what I'm getting at, it's a central tenet that you just meditate and act naturally. Maybe you guys are the reformation that changes all that. Question of course now is the carry-through. There is more work to do to figure out the practical delivery of policy. The clinic, type of credentialed staffing, and how they are going to administrate those trip-wire questions on their forms. That MUM student who spoke in the Q and A was very effective at holding their feet to the fire once again in public. They got to come up with more compassion to show on that one for people to believe them. It is about showing change on their part. Compassion? Their administrative banishing of Tom Allen was not the timely example of any change there.
