Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
On Jul 3, 2009, at 9:46 PM, Nelson wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: - Some of us have seen glimpses of them at work- doesn't take too much to verify that they must be possible. - After 32 years, still waiting for verification snip,, Hoping something turns up soon. From my observation,I would say it is there but often goes unnoticed. good luck. Herbert Benson verified that Tibetan yogis were in fact manifesting the siddhi of inner heat and more recently a major finding in deep meditation was verified when the EEG signature for samadhi was replicated. Samadhi is the basis for siddhis. Benson has also demonstrated yogis in deep forms of meditation that show a reduction in metabolic rate of over 60%. Such signatures have yet to be found in TMers or in "Sidhas". I wouldn't hold your breath, recent reviews of meditation research point out that commercial forms of meditation are too superficial to produce anything more than the preludes to samadhi.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > - Some of us have seen glimpses of them at work- doesn't > > > take too much to verify that they must be possible. > > > > > > - After 32 years, still waiting for verification > > > > Hoping something turns up soon. > > From my observation,I would say it is there but often > > goes unnoticed. > > Either that, or there is no verification possible > because nothing is happening or will ever happen, > and the seeker is wasting his life waiting for it > to happen. > > > good luck. > > Indeed. > > FWIW, the "energy signature" of what Maharishi > called the sidhis has nothing whatsoever to do > with the energy signature of actual siddhis being > performed in my experience. Not even apples and > oranges...more like apples (real siddhis) and > Tinkertoys. No relation whatsoever. > > I am not the only person who noticed this. There > were at least three dozen former TM sidhas in > Rama's study, and we'd often discuss the difference. > All felt the same way. One "phenomenon" involved > the mental repetition of some English-language > phrases from a $3.95 paperback translation of the > Yoga Sutras and the other involved no mantras, no > phrases, and no techniques, only the ability to > actually manifest the phenomena in question. And > the interesting thing is that the latter could > be taught to others without words, without the > use of mantras or phrases, and without the need > for techniques, using only transmission. > > YMMV. But unless you have actually experienced > siddhis being manifested externally (so that others > could witness them, not "internally," which can be > nothing more than moodmaking), your "mileage" has > no basis for comparison. Mine and the "mileage" of > the 30-40 former TM sidhas does. > > If you disagree, find and post a quote from someone > who represents a legitimate spiritual tradition > other than the TM movement who believes that what > Maharishi sold as the "sidhis" have any relationship > to actual siddhis, or what Patanjali was writing > about. I'd be interested in seeing such a quote, and > don't remember ever having seen one. don't know that > such quotes do not exist, but I suspect that they do > not. And if they don't, then it seems to me that > those who believe that TM sidhis are really siddhis > are basing their entire view of the subject on one > word -- "Maharishisez." > > Is that enough to constitute "truth" in your view? > > It's OK if it is, blind faith being unchallengable > and all that, but wouldn't it be more honest to > admit that faith in "Maharishisez" is your only > reason for believing that the TM sidhis are what > they were sold as being? > Don't care much for faith as I have "an ounce of expierience is worth a ton of faith" viewpoint. I see more of "one with the universe" type of things than particular sidhis like whenI need to see someone, they show up or the traffic lights will be green when I get there etc.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
---(*pssshhht!*) Here's your cup of tea- I made a pot; valerian&chamomile fresh mint outside the door if you want a snip In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > - Some of us have seen glimpses of them at work- doesn't > > > take too much to verify that they must be possible. > > > > > > - After 32 years, still waiting for verification > > > > Hoping something turns up soon. > > From my observation,I would say it is there but often > > goes unnoticed. > > Either that, or there is no verification possible > because nothing is happening or will ever happen, > and the seeker is wasting his life waiting for it > to happen. > > > good luck. > > Indeed. > > FWIW, the "energy signature" of what Maharishi > called the sidhis has nothing whatsoever to do > with the energy signature of actual siddhis being > performed in my experience. Not even apples and > oranges...more like apples (real siddhis) and > Tinkertoys. No relation whatsoever. > > I am not the only person who noticed this. There > were at least three dozen former TM sidhas in > Rama's study, and we'd often discuss the difference. > All felt the same way. One "phenomenon" involved > the mental repetition of some English-language > phrases from a $3.95 paperback translation of the > Yoga Sutras and the other involved no mantras, no > phrases, and no techniques, only the ability to > actually manifest the phenomena in question. And > the interesting thing is that the latter could > be taught to others without words, without the > use of mantras or phrases, and without the need > for techniques, using only transmission. > > YMMV. But unless you have actually experienced > siddhis being manifested externally (so that others > could witness them, not "internally," which can be > nothing more than moodmaking), your "mileage" has > no basis for comparison. Mine and the "mileage" of > the 30-40 former TM sidhas does. > > If you disagree, find and post a quote from someone > who represents a legitimate spiritual tradition > other than the TM movement who believes that what > Maharishi sold as the "sidhis" have any relationship > to actual siddhis, or what Patanjali was writing > about. I'd be interested in seeing such a quote, and > don't remember ever having seen one. don't know that > such quotes do not exist, but I suspect that they do > not. And if they don't, then it seems to me that > those who believe that TM sidhis are really siddhis > are basing their entire view of the subject on one > word -- "Maharishisez." > > Is that enough to constitute "truth" in your view? > > It's OK if it is, blind faith being unchallengable > and all that, but wouldn't it be more honest to > admit that faith in "Maharishisez" is your only > reason for believing that the TM sidhis are what > they were sold as being? >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > - Some of us have seen glimpses of them at work- doesn't > > take too much to verify that they must be possible. > > > > - After 32 years, still waiting for verification > > Hoping something turns up soon. > From my observation,I would say it is there but often > goes unnoticed. Either that, or there is no verification possible because nothing is happening or will ever happen, and the seeker is wasting his life waiting for it to happen. > good luck. Indeed. FWIW, the "energy signature" of what Maharishi called the sidhis has nothing whatsoever to do with the energy signature of actual siddhis being performed in my experience. Not even apples and oranges...more like apples (real siddhis) and Tinkertoys. No relation whatsoever. I am not the only person who noticed this. There were at least three dozen former TM sidhas in Rama's study, and we'd often discuss the difference. All felt the same way. One "phenomenon" involved the mental repetition of some English-language phrases from a $3.95 paperback translation of the Yoga Sutras and the other involved no mantras, no phrases, and no techniques, only the ability to actually manifest the phenomena in question. And the interesting thing is that the latter could be taught to others without words, without the use of mantras or phrases, and without the need for techniques, using only transmission. YMMV. But unless you have actually experienced siddhis being manifested externally (so that others could witness them, not "internally," which can be nothing more than moodmaking), your "mileage" has no basis for comparison. Mine and the "mileage" of the 30-40 former TM sidhas does. If you disagree, find and post a quote from someone who represents a legitimate spiritual tradition other than the TM movement who believes that what Maharishi sold as the "sidhis" have any relationship to actual siddhis, or what Patanjali was writing about. I'd be interested in seeing such a quote, and don't remember ever having seen one. don't know that such quotes do not exist, but I suspect that they do not. And if they don't, then it seems to me that those who believe that TM sidhis are really siddhis are basing their entire view of the subject on one word -- "Maharishisez." Is that enough to constitute "truth" in your view? It's OK if it is, blind faith being unchallengable and all that, but wouldn't it be more honest to admit that faith in "Maharishisez" is your only reason for believing that the TM sidhis are what they were sold as being?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > - Some of us have seen glimpses of them at work- doesn't take too much to > verify that they must be possible. > > > - After 32 years, still waiting for verification > snip,, Hoping something turns up soon. From my observation,I would say it is there but often goes unnoticed. good luck.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
do.rflex wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > >> do.rflex wrote: >> >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: >>> >>> Vaj wrote: > On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:21 PM, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > >> Well in my opinion I would have to say that death is >> >> a permanent cessation of all vital functions, basically the end of >> life. >> >> I'm pretty much conventional about your basic run of the mill >> maeaning of death. For instance in my opinion,Michael Jackson is dead. >> >> I'm sure many here would disagree with my opinion, but I'm holding >> to fast to this. >> >> >> > Consider this: one of the possible explanations given by Christian > theologians for the "resurrection" of Jesus of Nazareth is the so- > called "swoon theory". IOW, he wasn't dead and simply later revived a > couple days later. Occam's razor would have us take a more reasonable > answer, like this kid was merely passed out for whatever reason. > Traditional Hindus are often extraordinarily superstitious people, > they go the opposite direction from commonsense answers. > > Also, wasn't this bio written by the McRishi's uncle? How reliable of > a person was he? It seems clear he was a TB in Sw. Brahmananda, et al-- > not exactly a reliable witness most likely. > > Bringing a dead body to life would be a variation on one of the tantric siddhis or "tests" that takes place in the cremation ground. There the tantric sits on the dead body and through transmitting shakti brings it to life. Of course I've never done this but know people who claim to. But supposedly the body comes to life but also often tries to strangle the person sitting on it at which time there is a technique to put it back to its dead state. It isn't necessary a large jump to think that shakti might be able to bring a dead person (or animal) back to life but I would expect that with some much dead tissue they would probably react mindlessly like a zombie and hence why they might "appear" to strangle the tantric. It would be a "test" to show that one has achieved an ability to transmit an immense amount of shakti. I would also think that the boy would have been more like a zombie and not worth it to the parents to be in that state of life. I can't imagine that state of animation to last long either (another good reason to skip town). One of my Indian astrology teachers referred to this as a "trick" but didn't elaborate on how it was a trick or how it was performed. >>> >>> Your description sounds like a half-assed failure by an irresponsible, >>> inept huckster who really DOES have a serious lack of complete development. >>> I truly doubt that Guru Dev's master was such an incompetent dolt. If he >>> did restore the boy to life, I'm sure he restored him to his normal state. >>> >>> I'm really amazed at some of the people here, especially those who claim >>> such extensive learning in these areas, who can't seem to accept that such >>> things can indeed be done properly by fully developed God-realized beings. >>> It's as if you don't have a remote clue who and what God is, or of the >>> potential implications of -genuine- spiritual union with God. And you >>> certainly completely miss the concept of "The Whole Thing The Real Thing." >>> >>> I think, for the most part on this forum, that view is a reflection of the >>> standard TMO line that appeals to even hardcore atheists, that contact with >>> the attributeless Absolute -alone- is sufficient for complete spiritual >>> development. Paramatma [God] is either completely left out of the picture, >>> or is relegated to the status of unimportant superstitious hokum for the >>> ignorant. >>> >> I don't believe in "super-heroes." I do believe in accomplished yogis >> but am simply expressing logical limits to what may be accomplished >> within the realm of physics used in the process. I have transmitted >> shakti and seen the results and heard the results from the recipients. >> It is a real thing and as I've said here before totally possible for >> most long term meditators here to do it as well. It is (to overuse a >> term oft used here) a "simple technique." We know from medical >> anecdotes of people who presumed dead were revived but most likely not >> people who have been dead for more than a few hours at certainly not >> days. Too much deterioration would set in. The science of transmitting >> shakti to a dead person would be similar to applying electricity except >> that shakti is a more compatible energy and of course something that >> science
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > do.rflex wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > > >> Vaj wrote: > >> > >>> On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:21 PM, sgrayatlarge wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > Well in my opinion I would have to say that death is > > a permanent cessation of all vital functions, basically the end of > life. > > I'm pretty much conventional about your basic run of the mill > maeaning of death. For instance in my opinion,Michael Jackson is dead. > > I'm sure many here would disagree with my opinion, but I'm holding > to fast to this. > > > >>> Consider this: one of the possible explanations given by Christian > >>> theologians for the "resurrection" of Jesus of Nazareth is the so- > >>> called "swoon theory". IOW, he wasn't dead and simply later revived a > >>> couple days later. Occam's razor would have us take a more reasonable > >>> answer, like this kid was merely passed out for whatever reason. > >>> Traditional Hindus are often extraordinarily superstitious people, > >>> they go the opposite direction from commonsense answers. > >>> > >>> Also, wasn't this bio written by the McRishi's uncle? How reliable of > >>> a person was he? It seems clear he was a TB in Sw. Brahmananda, et al-- > >>> not exactly a reliable witness most likely. > >>> > >> Bringing a dead body to life would be a variation on one of the tantric > >> siddhis or "tests" that takes place in the cremation ground. There the > >> tantric sits on the dead body and through transmitting shakti brings it > >> to life. Of course I've never done this but know people who claim to. > >> But supposedly the body comes to life but also often tries to strangle > >> the person sitting on it at which time there is a technique to put it > >> back to its dead state. It isn't necessary a large jump to think that > >> shakti might be able to bring a dead person (or animal) back to life but > >> I would expect that with some much dead tissue they would probably > >> react mindlessly like a zombie and hence why they might "appear" to > >> strangle the tantric. It would be a "test" to show that one has > >> achieved an ability to transmit an immense amount of shakti. > >> > >> I would also think that the boy would have been more like a zombie and > >> not worth it to the parents to be in that state of life. I can't > >> imagine that state of animation to last long either (another good reason > >> to skip town). > >> > >> One of my Indian astrology teachers referred to this as a "trick" but > >> didn't elaborate on how it was a trick or how it was performed. > >> > >> > > > > > > > > Your description sounds like a half-assed failure by an irresponsible, > > inept huckster who really DOES have a serious lack of complete development. > > I truly doubt that Guru Dev's master was such an incompetent dolt. If he > > did restore the boy to life, I'm sure he restored him to his normal state. > > > > I'm really amazed at some of the people here, especially those who claim > > such extensive learning in these areas, who can't seem to accept that such > > things can indeed be done properly by fully developed God-realized beings. > > It's as if you don't have a remote clue who and what God is, or of the > > potential implications of -genuine- spiritual union with God. And you > > certainly completely miss the concept of "The Whole Thing The Real Thing." > > > > I think, for the most part on this forum, that view is a reflection of the > > standard TMO line that appeals to even hardcore atheists, that contact with > > the attributeless Absolute -alone- is sufficient for complete spiritual > > development. Paramatma [God] is either completely left out of the picture, > > or is relegated to the status of unimportant superstitious hokum for the > > ignorant. > I don't believe in "super-heroes." I do believe in accomplished yogis > but am simply expressing logical limits to what may be accomplished > within the realm of physics used in the process. I have transmitted > shakti and seen the results and heard the results from the recipients. > It is a real thing and as I've said here before totally possible for > most long term meditators here to do it as well. It is (to overuse a > term oft used here) a "simple technique." We know from medical > anecdotes of people who presumed dead were revived but most likely not > people who have been dead for more than a few hours at certainly not > days. Too much deterioration would set in. The science of transmitting > shakti to a dead person would be similar to applying electricity except > that shakti is a more compatible energy and of course something that > science has yet to delve into. Keep in mind that Indians also have a > bad habit of exaggerating and that if the tantric master actually > revi
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
do.rflex wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > >> Vaj wrote: >> >>> On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:21 PM, sgrayatlarge wrote: >>> >>> >>> Well in my opinion I would have to say that death is a permanent cessation of all vital functions, basically the end of life. I'm pretty much conventional about your basic run of the mill maeaning of death. For instance in my opinion,Michael Jackson is dead. I'm sure many here would disagree with my opinion, but I'm holding to fast to this. >>> Consider this: one of the possible explanations given by Christian >>> theologians for the "resurrection" of Jesus of Nazareth is the so- >>> called "swoon theory". IOW, he wasn't dead and simply later revived a >>> couple days later. Occam's razor would have us take a more reasonable >>> answer, like this kid was merely passed out for whatever reason. >>> Traditional Hindus are often extraordinarily superstitious people, >>> they go the opposite direction from commonsense answers. >>> >>> Also, wasn't this bio written by the McRishi's uncle? How reliable of >>> a person was he? It seems clear he was a TB in Sw. Brahmananda, et al-- >>> not exactly a reliable witness most likely. >>> >> Bringing a dead body to life would be a variation on one of the tantric >> siddhis or "tests" that takes place in the cremation ground. There the >> tantric sits on the dead body and through transmitting shakti brings it >> to life. Of course I've never done this but know people who claim to. >> But supposedly the body comes to life but also often tries to strangle >> the person sitting on it at which time there is a technique to put it >> back to its dead state. It isn't necessary a large jump to think that >> shakti might be able to bring a dead person (or animal) back to life but >> I would expect that with some much dead tissue they would probably >> react mindlessly like a zombie and hence why they might "appear" to >> strangle the tantric. It would be a "test" to show that one has >> achieved an ability to transmit an immense amount of shakti. >> >> I would also think that the boy would have been more like a zombie and >> not worth it to the parents to be in that state of life. I can't >> imagine that state of animation to last long either (another good reason >> to skip town). >> >> One of my Indian astrology teachers referred to this as a "trick" but >> didn't elaborate on how it was a trick or how it was performed. >> >> > > > > Your description sounds like a half-assed failure by an irresponsible, inept > huckster who really DOES have a serious lack of complete development. I truly > doubt that Guru Dev's master was such an incompetent dolt. If he did restore > the boy to life, I'm sure he restored him to his normal state. > > I'm really amazed at some of the people here, especially those who claim such > extensive learning in these areas, who can't seem to accept that such things > can indeed be done properly by fully developed God-realized beings. It's as > if you don't have a remote clue who and what God is, or of the potential > implications of -genuine- spiritual union with God. And you certainly > completely miss the concept of "The Whole Thing The Real Thing." > > I think, for the most part on this forum, that view is a reflection of the > standard TMO line that appeals to even hardcore atheists, that contact with > the attributeless Absolute -alone- is sufficient for complete spiritual > development. Paramatma [God] is either completely left out of the picture, or > is relegated to the status of unimportant superstitious hokum for the > ignorant. I don't believe in "super-heroes." I do believe in accomplished yogis but am simply expressing logical limits to what may be accomplished within the realm of physics used in the process. I have transmitted shakti and seen the results and heard the results from the recipients. It is a real thing and as I've said here before totally possible for most long term meditators here to do it as well. It is (to overuse a term oft used here) a "simple technique." We know from medical anecdotes of people who presumed dead were revived but most likely not people who have been dead for more than a few hours at certainly not days. Too much deterioration would set in. The science of transmitting shakti to a dead person would be similar to applying electricity except that shakti is a more compatible energy and of course something that science has yet to delve into. Keep in mind that Indians also have a bad habit of exaggerating and that if the tantric master actually revived the boy may have done so actually within minutes of his death but the story got out of hand over the years. Also keep in mind that someone using CPR in a remote village these days might also be taken as "miracle worker." I'll chec
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > Vaj wrote: > > On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:21 PM, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > >> Well in my opinion I would have to say that death is > >> > >> a permanent cessation of all vital functions, basically the end of > >> life. > >> > >> I'm pretty much conventional about your basic run of the mill > >> maeaning of death. For instance in my opinion,Michael Jackson is dead. > >> > >> I'm sure many here would disagree with my opinion, but I'm holding > >> to fast to this. > >> > > > > > > Consider this: one of the possible explanations given by Christian > > theologians for the "resurrection" of Jesus of Nazareth is the so- > > called "swoon theory". IOW, he wasn't dead and simply later revived a > > couple days later. Occam's razor would have us take a more reasonable > > answer, like this kid was merely passed out for whatever reason. > > Traditional Hindus are often extraordinarily superstitious people, > > they go the opposite direction from commonsense answers. > > > > Also, wasn't this bio written by the McRishi's uncle? How reliable of > > a person was he? It seems clear he was a TB in Sw. Brahmananda, et al-- > > not exactly a reliable witness most likely. > Bringing a dead body to life would be a variation on one of the tantric > siddhis or "tests" that takes place in the cremation ground. There the > tantric sits on the dead body and through transmitting shakti brings it > to life. Of course I've never done this but know people who claim to. > But supposedly the body comes to life but also often tries to strangle > the person sitting on it at which time there is a technique to put it > back to its dead state. It isn't necessary a large jump to think that > shakti might be able to bring a dead person (or animal) back to life but > I would expect that with some much dead tissue they would probably > react mindlessly like a zombie and hence why they might "appear" to > strangle the tantric. It would be a "test" to show that one has > achieved an ability to transmit an immense amount of shakti. > > I would also think that the boy would have been more like a zombie and > not worth it to the parents to be in that state of life. I can't > imagine that state of animation to last long either (another good reason > to skip town). > > One of my Indian astrology teachers referred to this as a "trick" but > didn't elaborate on how it was a trick or how it was performed. > Your description sounds like a half-assed failure by an irresponsible, inept huckster who really DOES have a serious lack of complete development. I truly doubt that Guru Dev's master was such an incompetent dolt. If he did restore the boy to life, I'm sure he restored him to his normal state. I'm really amazed at some of the people here, especially those who claim such extensive learning in these areas, who can't seem to accept that such things can indeed be done properly by fully developed God-realized beings. It's as if you don't have a remote clue who and what God is, or of the potential implications of -genuine- spiritual union with God. And you certainly completely miss the concept of "The Whole Thing The Real Thing." I think, for the most part on this forum, that view is a reflection of the standard TMO line that appeals to even hardcore atheists, that contact with the attributeless Absolute -alone- is sufficient for complete spiritual development. Paramatma [God] is either completely left out of the picture, or is relegated to the status of unimportant superstitious hokum for the ignorant.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
Vaj wrote: > On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:21 PM, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > >> Well in my opinion I would have to say that death is >> >> a permanent cessation of all vital functions, basically the end of >> life. >> >> I'm pretty much conventional about your basic run of the mill >> maeaning of death. For instance in my opinion,Michael Jackson is dead. >> >> I'm sure many here would disagree with my opinion, but I'm holding >> to fast to this. >> > > > Consider this: one of the possible explanations given by Christian > theologians for the "resurrection" of Jesus of Nazareth is the so- > called "swoon theory". IOW, he wasn't dead and simply later revived a > couple days later. Occam's razor would have us take a more reasonable > answer, like this kid was merely passed out for whatever reason. > Traditional Hindus are often extraordinarily superstitious people, > they go the opposite direction from commonsense answers. > > Also, wasn't this bio written by the McRishi's uncle? How reliable of > a person was he? It seems clear he was a TB in Sw. Brahmananda, et al-- > not exactly a reliable witness most likely. Bringing a dead body to life would be a variation on one of the tantric siddhis or "tests" that takes place in the cremation ground. There the tantric sits on the dead body and through transmitting shakti brings it to life. Of course I've never done this but know people who claim to. But supposedly the body comes to life but also often tries to strangle the person sitting on it at which time there is a technique to put it back to its dead state. It isn't necessary a large jump to think that shakti might be able to bring a dead person (or animal) back to life but I would expect that with some much dead tissue they would probably react mindlessly like a zombie and hence why they might "appear" to strangle the tantric. It would be a "test" to show that one has achieved an ability to transmit an immense amount of shakti. I would also think that the boy would have been more like a zombie and not worth it to the parents to be in that state of life. I can't imagine that state of animation to last long either (another good reason to skip town). One of my Indian astrology teachers referred to this as a "trick" but didn't elaborate on how it was a trick or how it was performed.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > You might want to consider that "sidhis" (the Mahesh McRishi > > variety) and "siddhis" are different entities in Turqs POV. Notice that throughout this post, Barry refers to "sidhis," not "siddhis." Vaj takes it in the ear coming and going. Instant karma. > Sorta like the difference between seeing a little > kid with a towel for a cape leaping off of a two- > foot curb and shouting "I'm flying," compared to > seeing someone actually flying. :-) > > > He's probably referring to Rama, not the Mahesh McSidhis. > > Exactly. And yes, there is a "coginitive dissonance > factor" involved in witnessing sidhis that puts > one through a few changes. Your mind has no problem > with what you are witnessing, but your *body* does; > it's as if it goes into shock from seeing something > happening that can't be happening. But to be honest, > that's a phenomenon that lasts less than six months. > After that, if you didn't run off screaming, telling > yourself that you didn't really see what you saw, > trying to erase it from your memory (and a lot of > people who saw Rama did just that), then you just > "settled into" the sidhi thing and got fairly ho-hum > about it. > > I would say in retrospect that the "cognitive > dissonance factor" has value, in that it loosens > the grip on the seeker of his concepts about what > he thinks realit is and opens him up to actual reality. > And one other aspect of siddhis has possible value -- > sitting in the energy field that surrounds the person > performing them as they are being performed. That's > pretty interesting, and the way that sidhis are > really taught IMO. > > But on the whole, I don't see either learning to > perform sidhis or witnessing sidhis performed as > having any real lasting value for the average spiritual > seeker. The former all too often fuels ego and locks > one into the ego and desire planes, and the latter > really isn't worth all that much IMO once one gets > over the "Wow" phase. > > That said, it was neat to have seen whatever it > was that I saw. I wouldn't trade the experience > for anything I can think of. In retrospect, prob- > ably the most profound real benefit of having > witnessed them in the long term was the realiz- > ation that there is nothing one can *possibly* > do to convince someone who hasn't witnessed > such things that they are possible. It wouldn't > have *mattered* if I'd had a video camera with > me and recorded everything. People are going to > believe what people are going to believe, and > there is simply nothing anyone can do to change > that. And that IMO is a good thing to have real- > ized. So if witnessing sidhis helped to teach > it to me, maybe they had value after all. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > You might want to consider that "sidhis" (the Mahesh McRishi > variety) and "siddhis" are different entities in Turqs POV. Sorta like the difference between seeing a little kid with a towel for a cape leaping off of a two- foot curb and shouting "I'm flying," compared to seeing someone actually flying. :-) > He's probably referring to Rama, not the Mahesh McSidhis. Exactly. And yes, there is a "coginitive dissonance factor" involved in witnessing sidhis that puts one through a few changes. Your mind has no problem with what you are witnessing, but your *body* does; it's as if it goes into shock from seeing something happening that can't be happening. But to be honest, that's a phenomenon that lasts less than six months. After that, if you didn't run off screaming, telling yourself that you didn't really see what you saw, trying to erase it from your memory (and a lot of people who saw Rama did just that), then you just "settled into" the sidhi thing and got fairly ho-hum about it. I would say in retrospect that the "cognitive dissonance factor" has value, in that it loosens the grip on the seeker of his concepts about what he thinks realit is and opens him up to actual reality. And one other aspect of siddhis has possible value -- sitting in the energy field that surrounds the person performing them as they are being performed. That's pretty interesting, and the way that sidhis are really taught IMO. But on the whole, I don't see either learning to perform sidhis or witnessing sidhis performed as having any real lasting value for the average spiritual seeker. The former all too often fuels ego and locks one into the ego and desire planes, and the latter really isn't worth all that much IMO once one gets over the "Wow" phase. That said, it was neat to have seen whatever it was that I saw. I wouldn't trade the experience for anything I can think of. In retrospect, prob- ably the most profound real benefit of having witnessed them in the long term was the realiz- ation that there is nothing one can *possibly* do to convince someone who hasn't witnessed such things that they are possible. It wouldn't have *mattered* if I'd had a video camera with me and recorded everything. People are going to believe what people are going to believe, and there is simply nothing anyone can do to change that. And that IMO is a good thing to have real- ized. So if witnessing sidhis helped to teach it to me, maybe they had value after all.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > On Jul 3, 2009, at 11:57 AM, raunchydog wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > >> > >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > >> > >>> But seeing siddhis themselves performed actually > >>> becomes kinda ho-hum in a remarkably short period > >>> of time. Even the *stupidest* bhakti has to realize > >>> after a while, "Wow...the guy just levitated again. > >>> Isn't that neat? Wait...I'm the same as I was before > >>> he levitated, therefore seeing him do it didn't do > >>> diddley for me. So what's the point?" > >> > >> Barry, December 2007: > >> > >> "Being around siddhis and having to DEAL with their > >> mind-blowing reality is what I see as one of the main > >> values of them. There is a real benefit to the seeker > >> in having to DEAL with experiences that cannot be > >> intellectually "fit in" to their existing descriptions > >> of the world and how it works. Whatever they consider > >> the siddhis they've seen to be, it puts you through > >> some changes to integrate having witnessed them into > >> your world view. You have to learn a new level of > >> trust in your own experience" > > > > Barry's 2007 opinion is that witnessing the siddhis > > "puts you through some changes to integrate...into > > your world view." The 2007 change Barry integrated > > into his 2009 world view is that witnessing > > the siddhis do not change your world view. LOL. > > You might want to consider that "sidhis" (the Mahesh > McRishi variety) and "siddhis" are different entities > in Turqs POV. He's probably referring to Rama, not > the Mahesh McSidhis. ROTFL! Poor Vaj. Of *course* Barry's referring to Rama, both times. He did a 180. That's the *point*, dumbo. Judy commonly tries to > make dishonest statements like these that she either > knows are incorrect parallels (in a pathetic attempt > to deceive and lure someone into arguments) or she's > clueless. Given her consistent dishonesty, my guess > would be the former. Why would I even *want* to make anyone think he was referring to the TM-Sidhis?? Raunchy obviously didn't think that; it wouldn't make any sense. Plus which, Barry's never mentioned witnessing any siddhis associated with the TM-Sidhis. Oh, yes, and in a different paragraph of the current post I quoted, he refers to the TM-Sidhis as "siddhis." And yet another attempt to make me out to be a liar down the drain. How embarrassing for Vaj. I keep catching him in blatant lies, but whenever he tries to pin a lie on me--knowing that I don't lie, but having no other defense--he plasters his face with egg and *confirms* that he's a liar. BTW, nothing wrong with Barry changing his mind about the value of witnessing siddhis. The question is whether he really changes his mind about things or simply changes what he *says* about them depending on what he perceives to be to his advantage in a particular discussion (in the current case, putting down Edg). The fact tht he never says "I used to think X, but now I think Y" when he does one of these flip-flops suggests it's the latter. Chances are he doesn't even remember what he said earlier.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
- Some of us have seen glimpses of them at work- doesn't take too much to verify that they must be possible. > - After 32 years, still waiting for verification -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > Raising someone from the dead deserves some scrutiny, unless it's not > > > taken seriously, since I've never heard a big debate on this story. > > > Afterall this book has been around for years and I know many have read it. > > > > > > > > > > > Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? > > > snip, > Some of us have seen glimpses of them at work- doesn't take too much to > verify that they must be possible. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > Raising someone from the dead deserves some scrutiny, unless it's not > > > taken seriously, since I've never heard a big debate on this story. > > > Afterall this book has been around for years and I know many have read it. > > > > > > > > > > > Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? > > > snip, > Some of us have seen glimpses of them at work- doesn't take too much to > verify that they must be possible. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > Raising someone from the dead deserves some scrutiny, unless it's not > > > taken seriously, since I've never heard a big debate on this story. > > > Afterall this book has been around for years and I know many have read it. > > > > > > > > > > > Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? > > > snip, > Some of us have seen glimpses of them at work- doesn't take too much to > verify that they must be possible. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:21 PM, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > Well in my opinion I would have to say that death is > > > > a permanent cessation of all vital functions, basically the end of > > life. > > > > I'm pretty much conventional about your basic run of the mill > > maeaning of death. For instance in my opinion,Michael Jackson is dead. > > > > I'm sure many here would disagree with my opinion, but I'm holding > > to fast to this. > > > Consider this: one of the possible explanations given by Christian > theologians for the "resurrection" of Jesus of Nazareth is the so- > called "swoon theory". IOW, he wasn't dead and simply later revived a > couple days later. Occam's razor would have us take a more reasonable > answer, like this kid was merely passed out for whatever reason. > Traditional Hindus are often extraordinarily superstitious people, > they go the opposite direction from commonsense answers. > > Also, wasn't this bio written by the McRishi's uncle? No. The biography of Guru Dev titled "The Whole Thing The Real Thing" was originally compiled by Rameswar Tiwari and later translated into English by Prem C. Pasricha. How reliable of > a person was he? It seems clear he was a TB in Sw. Brahmananda, et al-- > not exactly a reliable witness most likely. >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
On Jul 3, 2009, at 11:57 AM, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: But seeing siddhis themselves performed actually becomes kinda ho-hum in a remarkably short period of time. Even the *stupidest* bhakti has to realize after a while, "Wow...the guy just levitated again. Isn't that neat? Wait...I'm the same as I was before he levitated, therefore seeing him do it didn't do diddley for me. So what's the point?" Barry, December 2007: "Being around siddhis and having to DEAL with their mind-blowing reality is what I see as one of the main values of them. There is a real benefit to the seeker in having to DEAL with experiences that cannot be intellectually "fit in" to their existing descriptions of the world and how it works. Whatever they consider the siddhis they've seen to be, it puts you through some changes to integrate having witnessed them into your world view. You have to learn a new level of trust in your own experience" Barry's 2007 opinion is that witnessing the siddhis "puts you through some changes to integrate...into your world view." The 2007 change Barry integrated into his 2009 world view is that witnessing the siddhis do not change your world view. LOL. You might want to consider that "sidhis" (the Mahesh McRishi variety) and "siddhis" are different entities in Turqs POV. He's probably referring to Rama, not the Mahesh McSidhis. Judy commonly tries to make dishonest statements like these that she either knows are incorrect parallels (in a pathetic attempt to deceive and lure someone into arguments) or she's clueless. Given her consistent dishonesty, my guess would be the former.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
On Jul 2, 2009, at 11:21 PM, sgrayatlarge wrote: > Well in my opinion I would have to say that death is > > a permanent cessation of all vital functions, basically the end of > life. > > I'm pretty much conventional about your basic run of the mill > maeaning of death. For instance in my opinion,Michael Jackson is dead. > > I'm sure many here would disagree with my opinion, but I'm holding > to fast to this. Consider this: one of the possible explanations given by Christian theologians for the "resurrection" of Jesus of Nazareth is the so- called "swoon theory". IOW, he wasn't dead and simply later revived a couple days later. Occam's razor would have us take a more reasonable answer, like this kid was merely passed out for whatever reason. Traditional Hindus are often extraordinarily superstitious people, they go the opposite direction from commonsense answers. Also, wasn't this bio written by the McRishi's uncle? How reliable of a person was he? It seems clear he was a TB in Sw. Brahmananda, et al-- not exactly a reliable witness most likely.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > But seeing siddhis themselves performed actually > > becomes kinda ho-hum in a remarkably short period > > of time. Even the *stupidest* bhakti has to realize > > after a while, "Wow...the guy just levitated again. > > Isn't that neat? Wait...I'm the same as I was before > > he levitated, therefore seeing him do it didn't do > > diddley for me. So what's the point?" > > Barry, December 2007: > > "Being around siddhis and having to DEAL with their > mind-blowing reality is what I see as one of the main > values of them. There is a real benefit to the seeker > in having to DEAL with experiences that cannot be > intellectually "fit in" to their existing descriptions > of the world and how it works. Whatever they consider > the siddhis they've seen to be, it puts you through > some changes to integrate having witnessed them into > your world view. You have to learn a new level of > trust in your own experience" > Barry's 2007 opinion is that witnessing the siddhis "puts you through some changes to integrate...into your world view." The 2007 change Barry integrated into his 2009 world view is that witnessing the siddhis do not change your world view. LOL.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > But seeing siddhis themselves performed actually > becomes kinda ho-hum in a remarkably short period > of time. Even the *stupidest* bhakti has to realize > after a while, "Wow...the guy just levitated again. > Isn't that neat? Wait...I'm the same as I was before > he levitated, therefore seeing him do it didn't do > diddley for me. So what's the point?" Barry, December 2007: "Being around siddhis and having to DEAL with their mind-blowing reality is what I see as one of the main values of them. There is a real benefit to the seeker in having to DEAL with experiences that cannot be intellectually "fit in" to their existing descriptions of the world and how it works. Whatever they consider the siddhis they've seen to be, it puts you through some changes to integrate having witnessed them into your world view. You have to learn a new level of trust in your own experience"
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? > > > > > > I've never seen anyone ever do anything but hop based on a sutra for > > > levitation. I think it's possible, however many a supposed Sidha in India > > > have been debunked. > > > > > > > Hmmm... perhaps the main purpose of yogic hopping is to try to > > "force" kuNDalinii enter into suSumna-nadii? :D > > No. It goes there naturally, automatically. > That's why Maharishi refused to use those words you just mention, because > historically these names evokes huge misunderstandings. > Well, one may ejaculate (become "adho-retas"?) spontaneuosly but e.g. "spanking the monkey" is for most people a sure method to make that happen. Perhaps "backwards" spanking of the monkey ensures that one becomes uurdhva-retas... :0
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? > > > > I've never seen anyone ever do anything but hop based on a sutra > > for levitation. I think it's possible, however many a supposed > > Sidha in India have been debunked. > > Hmmm... perhaps the main purpose of yogic hopping is to try to > "force" kuNDalinii enter into suSumna-nadii? :D Perhaps the main purpose of "yogic hopping" is and always was to force moneyDAlinii into off- shore Channel Island bank accounts. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > So someone who would witness this would basically see you disappear? > Not necessarily. What I experienced was that I saw through my mind's eye the inner structure of the retina. I saw the pink cones and rods that are the mechanisms for receiving light from the outside world. I was floating by these cones wondering what they were. If this can be done by a beginner, it is possible that the more experienced meditators can see other parts of the body at will. Several years later after this incident, I have not been able to replicate this experience again. It's just as well, since it was a very scary event not knowing what you were seeing. JR > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > > > Raising someone from the dead deserves some scrutiny, unless it's not > > > > taken seriously, since I've never heard a big debate on this story. > > > > Afterall this book has been around for years and I know many have read > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? > > > > > > > The siddhis are possible, I believe. From a personal point of view, I have > > experienced the siddhi for being small as an atom. I experienced this > > siddhi soon after getting initiated just using the basic TM method. Even > > up to the present, I have not gotten any formal training for the TM-Sidhi > > techniques. > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > Raising someone from the dead deserves some scrutiny, unless it's not taken > > seriously, since I've never heard a big debate on this story. Afterall this > > book has been around for years and I know many have read it. > > > > > > Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? > snip, Some of us have seen glimpses of them at work- doesn't take too much to verify that they must be possible.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: snip for brevity> < All that you would "know" is what you > saw, or convinced yourself that you saw. That > is not the same thing as "truth." > > I can accept this, having witnessed siddhis. > Why can't you, having not? > Hi Turqji Yeah, but indeed some of this is my experience Turq. & that is my science by scale of experience. Differently though, few years back in FF an indian guy came through and was available for *consultation*. Could meet with him out at the Super8. Pay for play. He manifested bahvooti out of his hand like Sai Baba for my wife and i. Did it off of our shakti. Was interesting to witness but not spiritual. So it was. He was looking for business deals off of the FF spiritual practice community here to advance himself. Was an interesting lesson to witness about the siddhis. Jai Guru Dev, -Doug in FF
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
Well in my opinion I would have to say that death is a permanent cessation of all vital functions, basically the end of life. I'm pretty much conventional about your basic run of the mill maeaning of death. For instance in my opinion,Michael Jackson is dead. I'm sure many here would disagree with my opinion, but I'm holding to fast to this. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > Certainly a nice story, nothing more > > Please eleborate, what is "death" in your opinion ? >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
On Jul 2, 2009, at 6:30 PM, cardemaister wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? I've never seen anyone ever do anything but hop based on a sutra for levitation. I think it's possible, however many a supposed Sidha in India have been debunked. Hmmm... perhaps the main purpose of yogic hopping is to try to "force" kuNDalinii enter into suSumna-nadii? :D You do have a great capacity for rationalization a la Sanskrit, don't you? ;-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
So someone who would witness this would basically see you disappear? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > Raising someone from the dead deserves some scrutiny, unless it's not > > > taken seriously, since I've never heard a big debate on this story. > > > Afterall this book has been around for years and I know many have read it. > > > > > > > > > > > Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? > > > > The siddhis are possible, I believe. From a personal point of view, I have > experienced the siddhi for being small as an atom. I experienced this siddhi > soon after getting initiated just using the basic TM method. Even up to the > present, I have not gotten any formal training for the TM-Sidhi techniques. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
That's not what the sutra states --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? > > > > I've never seen anyone ever do anything but hop based on a sutra for > > levitation. I think it's possible, however many a supposed Sidha in India > > have been debunked. > > > > Hmmm... perhaps the main purpose of yogic hopping is to try to > "force" kuNDalinii enter into suSumna-nadii? :D >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? > > > > I've never seen anyone ever do anything but hop based on a sutra for > > levitation. I think it's possible, however many a supposed Sidha in India > > have been debunked. > > > > Hmmm... perhaps the main purpose of yogic hopping is to try to > "force" kuNDalinii enter into suSumna-nadii? :D No. It goes there naturally, automatically. That's why Maharishi refused to use those words you just mention, because historically these names evokes huge misunderstandings.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
On Jul 2, 2009, at 5:01 PM, John wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: Raising someone from the dead deserves some scrutiny, unless it's not taken seriously, since I've never heard a big debate on this story. Afterall this book has been around for years and I know many have read it. Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? The siddhis are possible, I believe. From a personal point of view, I have experienced the siddhi for being small as an atom. I experienced this siddhi soon after getting initiated just using the basic TM method. Even up to the present, I have not gotten any formal training for the TM-Sidhi techniques. Something you might want to consider: what is possible mentally. In my personal clear experiences of the TM "sidhis" I was forced to conclude that they were all mental-plane phenomenon. The exception of course is the muscle-jerking sidhi, i.e. the "flying" sidhi: it's more of a post- hypnotic suggestion phenom, but still a mentally-mediated phenom. Without a clear understanding of the mental-plane and what that means experientially, it would be impossible to objectively evaluate any TM- Sidhi expereinces IMO. You're "easy game". If you fall into "believing" then, mentally, the experience you describe would be typical. This type of experience can easily be replicated using any acquired belief and a sensory deprivation tank. Of course the fact that the TM technique is a mental technique is inescapable. You should seriously consider this.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? > > I've never seen anyone ever do anything but hop based on a sutra for > levitation. I think it's possible, however many a supposed Sidha in India > have been debunked. > Hmmm... perhaps the main purpose of yogic hopping is to try to "force" kuNDalinii enter into suSumna-nadii? :D
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > Raising someone from the dead deserves some scrutiny, unless it's not > > > taken seriously, since I've never heard a big debate on this story. > > > Afterall this book has been around for years and I know many have read it. > > > > > > > > > > > Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? > > > > The siddhis are possible, I believe. From a personal point of view, I have > experienced the siddhi for being small as an atom. I experienced this siddhi > soon after getting initiated just using the basic TM method. Even up to the > present, I have not gotten any formal training for the TM-Sidhi techniques. Nice ! I've had the same experiences. But rather I was; "smaller than the smallest and bigger than the biggest" simultaneously, which is close to your experience. Wish you all the best for your meditation practise. Nablusoss
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > Certainly a nice story, nothing more Please eleborate, what is "death" in your opinion ?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > Raising someone from the dead deserves some scrutiny, unless it's not taken > > seriously, since I've never heard a big debate on this story. Afterall this > > book has been around for years and I know many have read it. > > > > > > Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? > The siddhis are possible, I believe. From a personal point of view, I have experienced the siddhi for being small as an atom. I experienced this siddhi soon after getting initiated just using the basic TM method. Even up to the present, I have not gotten any formal training for the TM-Sidhi techniques.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > > > The statement that 'one obviously accepts what one wishes to accept - and > > rejects what one wishes to reject' is wishful thinking? > > -Yes, based on emotions that can change from one moment to the next. > > If you have strong faith that GD raised someone from the dead, then that's > between you and your object of faith, I don't question that. > > > > > > If you would have said I have faith as a disciple of Guru Dev that he can > raise someone from the dead. I can accept that since it's a matter of faith. > > Okay. Fair enough. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > One obviously accepts what one wishes to accept - and rejects what one > > > wishes to reject. > > > > > > > Understanding based on wishful thinking > > > > > > > > The statement that 'one obviously accepts what one wishes to accept - and > > rejects what one wishes to reject' is wishful thinking? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you facts to show this event really happened? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course you don't, nobody does, so it's a story or perhaps > > > > > > > a legend > > > > > > > > > > > > The story appears in two versions of Guru Dev's biography > > > > > > which was essentially a compilation of discourses by Guru > > > > > > Dev written down by his disciples wherein he described his > > > > > > own personal experiences. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe he or they lied, eh? > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, if one looks at the life of Frederick > > > > > Lenz - Rama, there are compilations of accounts > > > > > by hundreds of his students (including my accounts) > > > > > that report any number of phenomena that most would > > > > > consider "miracles" or the performance of siddhis. > > > > > They are equally true, right? :-) > > > > > > > > > > > And maybe even though Guru Dev was considered to have > > > > > > reached the highest pinnacle of spiritual development... > > > > > > > > > > By whom? By people who had a vested interest in > > > > > protecting their "investment" of time and energy > > > > > and their lives into his teachings. You went > > > > > through the TM movement, and saw how willing > > > > > people were to pass along rumors and make up > > > > > stuff to justify *that* investment of time and > > > > > energy and their lives, right? And you think that > > > > > things were somehow *different* around Guru Dev? > > > > > > > > > > > ...the use of the siddhis is total bullshit after all. > > > > > > Ya think? > > > > > > > > > > Unlike most (if not all) of you on this forum, I > > > > > have witnessed siddhis being performed. Were they > > > > > "real," in the sense that they would have been > > > > > captured by a video camera recording the events? > > > > > Beats the shit outa me. Were they "real" in the > > > > > sense that I and hundreds of others witnessed > > > > > them and reported witnessing them? You betcha. > > > > > > > > > > So what makes any of these reports of siddhis > > > > > any different than the ones you believe that > > > > > Guru Dev performed? The fact that you feel an > > > > > emotionoal resonance with him? That's real > > > > > scientific. :-) > > > > > > > > > > It's a story, John. Unless you were there at the > > > > > time to witness it yourself, you have *no idea* > > > > > whether it is a true story or not. And my point > > > > > is that even if you *had* been there you would > > > > > not know. All that you would "know" is what you > > > > > saw, or convinced yourself that you saw. That > > > > > is not the same thing as "truth." > > > > > > > > > > I can accept this, having witnessed siddhis. > > > > > Why can't you, having not? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One obviously accepts what one wishes to accept - and rejects what one > > > > wishes to reject. > > > > > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? I've never seen anyone ever do anything but hop based on a sutra for levitation. I think it's possible, however many a supposed Sidha in India have been debunked. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > Raising someone from the dead deserves some scrutiny, unless it's not taken > > seriously, since I've never heard a big debate on this story. Afterall this > > book has been around for years and I know many have read it. > > > > > > Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > > > Do you facts to show this event really happened? > > > > > > > > Of course you don't, nobody does, so it's a story or perhaps a legend > > > > > > > > > > > > The story appears in two versions of Guru Dev's biography which was > > > essentially a compilation of discourses by Guru Dev written down by his > > > disciples wherein he described his own personal experiences. > > > > > > Maybe he or they lied, eh? > > > > > > And maybe even though Guru Dev was considered to have reached the highest > > > pinnacle of spiritual development, the use of the siddhis is total > > > bullshit after all. Ya think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Certainly a nice story, nothing more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either the story is factual - or it isn't, eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TWENTY-FIVE was the age when Shri Maharaj [Guru Dev] accompanied > > > > > > > by his Guruji [Swami Krishnand Saraswati] descended from > > > > > > > Uttarkashi having completed his study of the scriptures and > > > > > > > having discovered the truth about his innermost Self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For about a month, they stopped over at the small picturesque > > > > > > > village of Kajliwan, near Rishikesh. Set amidst a dense jungle > > > > > > > that supported many wild carnivorous animals, it was a place that > > > > > > > nevertheless held a special welcome to the Sadhus and Mahatmas. > > > > > > > Maharaj Shri and Guruji were given a rousing reception by the > > > > > > > people of Kajliwan and other surrounding villages. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Among the throng of darshan-seekers was a Brahmin milkman, whose > > > > > > > practice it was to offer milk to the holy guests that visited the > > > > > > > place. Maharaj Shri arranged with him to bring everyday half a > > > > > > > litre of milk which he would boil and serve to Guruji every > > > > > > > night. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One day, it so happened that the Brahmin's wife said, "The cow > > > > > > > has given very little milk today. It will not be enough even for > > > > > > > the children." The Brahmin, however, paid no heed to his wife and > > > > > > > supplied half a litre as usual to the honoured guests. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When Maharaj Shri warmed up the milk and served it to Guruji, he > > > > > > > said, "There is the woe in the milk today. I shall not drink it. > > > > > > > Please return it to milkman and tell him to stop giving it." > > > > > > > Maharaj Shri did as he was told. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About fifteen days later, as fate would have it, the milkman's > > > > > > > son died. The whole place was agog with the rumour that Guruji > > > > > > > was displeased with the Brahmin milkman and therefore he had lost > > > > > > > his son. Maharaj Shri conveyed this to Guruji, who merely said, > > > > > > > "When the people take the boy's corpse to the cremation grounds > > > > > > > tell them to send for me before making the funeral pyre." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was done. The corpse was placed on the ground pending > > > > > > > Guruji's arrival. Guruji came. He had the strings securing the > > > > > > > shroud removed the kicked the lifeless head gently with his foot, > > > > > > > saying, "Why do you sleep so much?" And lo, the boy was on his > > > > > > > feet! It was a miracle that dazed everyone present. Wonderstruck, > > > > > > > they bowed to the great Mahatma in their midst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On reaching their hut, Guruji said to the Maharaj Shri, "It's > > > > > > > better to leave this place right now before all the dead people > > > > > > > here start pestering us for life!" And with that Guruji left - > > > > > > > leaving Maharaj Shri alone! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ Excerpt from "The Whole Thing - The Real Thing" > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
> > > The statement that 'one obviously accepts what one wishes to accept - and > rejects what one wishes to reject' is wishful thinking? -Yes, based on emotions that can change from one moment to the next. If you have strong faith that GD raised someone from the dead, then that's between you and your object of faith, I don't question that. If you would have said I have faith as a disciple of Guru Dev that he can raise someone from the dead. I can accept that since it's a matter of faith. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > One obviously accepts what one wishes to accept - and rejects what one > > wishes to reject. > > > > > Understanding based on wishful thinking > > > > The statement that 'one obviously accepts what one wishes to accept - and > rejects what one wishes to reject' is wishful thinking? > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you facts to show this event really happened? > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course you don't, nobody does, so it's a story or perhaps > > > > > > a legend > > > > > > > > > > The story appears in two versions of Guru Dev's biography > > > > > which was essentially a compilation of discourses by Guru > > > > > Dev written down by his disciples wherein he described his > > > > > own personal experiences. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe he or they lied, eh? > > > > > > > > Similarly, if one looks at the life of Frederick > > > > Lenz - Rama, there are compilations of accounts > > > > by hundreds of his students (including my accounts) > > > > that report any number of phenomena that most would > > > > consider "miracles" or the performance of siddhis. > > > > They are equally true, right? :-) > > > > > > > > > And maybe even though Guru Dev was considered to have > > > > > reached the highest pinnacle of spiritual development... > > > > > > > > By whom? By people who had a vested interest in > > > > protecting their "investment" of time and energy > > > > and their lives into his teachings. You went > > > > through the TM movement, and saw how willing > > > > people were to pass along rumors and make up > > > > stuff to justify *that* investment of time and > > > > energy and their lives, right? And you think that > > > > things were somehow *different* around Guru Dev? > > > > > > > > > ...the use of the siddhis is total bullshit after all. > > > > > Ya think? > > > > > > > > Unlike most (if not all) of you on this forum, I > > > > have witnessed siddhis being performed. Were they > > > > "real," in the sense that they would have been > > > > captured by a video camera recording the events? > > > > Beats the shit outa me. Were they "real" in the > > > > sense that I and hundreds of others witnessed > > > > them and reported witnessing them? You betcha. > > > > > > > > So what makes any of these reports of siddhis > > > > any different than the ones you believe that > > > > Guru Dev performed? The fact that you feel an > > > > emotionoal resonance with him? That's real > > > > scientific. :-) > > > > > > > > It's a story, John. Unless you were there at the > > > > time to witness it yourself, you have *no idea* > > > > whether it is a true story or not. And my point > > > > is that even if you *had* been there you would > > > > not know. All that you would "know" is what you > > > > saw, or convinced yourself that you saw. That > > > > is not the same thing as "truth." > > > > > > > > I can accept this, having witnessed siddhis. > > > > Why can't you, having not? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One obviously accepts what one wishes to accept - and rejects what one > > > wishes to reject. > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > One obviously accepts what one wishes to accept - and rejects what one > wishes to reject. > > > Understanding based on wishful thinking The statement that 'one obviously accepts what one wishes to accept - and rejects what one wishes to reject' is wishful thinking? > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Do you facts to show this event really happened? > > > > > > > > > > Of course you don't, nobody does, so it's a story or perhaps > > > > > a legend > > > > > > > > The story appears in two versions of Guru Dev's biography > > > > which was essentially a compilation of discourses by Guru > > > > Dev written down by his disciples wherein he described his > > > > own personal experiences. > > > > > > > > Maybe he or they lied, eh? > > > > > > Similarly, if one looks at the life of Frederick > > > Lenz - Rama, there are compilations of accounts > > > by hundreds of his students (including my accounts) > > > that report any number of phenomena that most would > > > consider "miracles" or the performance of siddhis. > > > They are equally true, right? :-) > > > > > > > And maybe even though Guru Dev was considered to have > > > > reached the highest pinnacle of spiritual development... > > > > > > By whom? By people who had a vested interest in > > > protecting their "investment" of time and energy > > > and their lives into his teachings. You went > > > through the TM movement, and saw how willing > > > people were to pass along rumors and make up > > > stuff to justify *that* investment of time and > > > energy and their lives, right? And you think that > > > things were somehow *different* around Guru Dev? > > > > > > > ...the use of the siddhis is total bullshit after all. > > > > Ya think? > > > > > > Unlike most (if not all) of you on this forum, I > > > have witnessed siddhis being performed. Were they > > > "real," in the sense that they would have been > > > captured by a video camera recording the events? > > > Beats the shit outa me. Were they "real" in the > > > sense that I and hundreds of others witnessed > > > them and reported witnessing them? You betcha. > > > > > > So what makes any of these reports of siddhis > > > any different than the ones you believe that > > > Guru Dev performed? The fact that you feel an > > > emotionoal resonance with him? That's real > > > scientific. :-) > > > > > > It's a story, John. Unless you were there at the > > > time to witness it yourself, you have *no idea* > > > whether it is a true story or not. And my point > > > is that even if you *had* been there you would > > > not know. All that you would "know" is what you > > > saw, or convinced yourself that you saw. That > > > is not the same thing as "truth." > > > > > > I can accept this, having witnessed siddhis. > > > Why can't you, having not? > > > > > > > > > > > One obviously accepts what one wishes to accept - and rejects what one > > wishes to reject. > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > Raising someone from the dead deserves some scrutiny, unless it's not taken > seriously, since I've never heard a big debate on this story. Afterall this > book has been around for years and I know many have read it. > Just out of curiosity, do you think that the siddhis are possible? > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > Do you facts to show this event really happened? > > > > > > Of course you don't, nobody does, so it's a story or perhaps a legend > > > > > > > > The story appears in two versions of Guru Dev's biography which was > > essentially a compilation of discourses by Guru Dev written down by his > > disciples wherein he described his own personal experiences. > > > > Maybe he or they lied, eh? > > > > And maybe even though Guru Dev was considered to have reached the highest > > pinnacle of spiritual development, the use of the siddhis is total bullshit > > after all. Ya think? > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Certainly a nice story, nothing more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either the story is factual - or it isn't, eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TWENTY-FIVE was the age when Shri Maharaj [Guru Dev] accompanied by > > > > > > his Guruji [Swami Krishnand Saraswati] descended from Uttarkashi > > > > > > having completed his study of the scriptures and having discovered > > > > > > the truth about his innermost Self. > > > > > > > > > > > > For about a month, they stopped over at the small picturesque > > > > > > village of Kajliwan, near Rishikesh. Set amidst a dense jungle that > > > > > > supported many wild carnivorous animals, it was a place that > > > > > > nevertheless held a special welcome to the Sadhus and Mahatmas. > > > > > > Maharaj Shri and Guruji were given a rousing reception by the > > > > > > people of Kajliwan and other surrounding villages. > > > > > > > > > > > > Among the throng of darshan-seekers was a Brahmin milkman, whose > > > > > > practice it was to offer milk to the holy guests that visited the > > > > > > place. Maharaj Shri arranged with him to bring everyday half a > > > > > > litre of milk which he would boil and serve to Guruji every night. > > > > > > > > > > > > One day, it so happened that the Brahmin's wife said, "The cow has > > > > > > given very little milk today. It will not be enough even for the > > > > > > children." The Brahmin, however, paid no heed to his wife and > > > > > > supplied half a litre as usual to the honoured guests. > > > > > > > > > > > > When Maharaj Shri warmed up the milk and served it to Guruji, he > > > > > > said, "There is the woe in the milk today. I shall not drink it. > > > > > > Please return it to milkman and tell him to stop giving it." > > > > > > Maharaj Shri did as he was told. > > > > > > > > > > > > About fifteen days later, as fate would have it, the milkman's son > > > > > > died. The whole place was agog with the rumour that Guruji was > > > > > > displeased with the Brahmin milkman and therefore he had lost his > > > > > > son. Maharaj Shri conveyed this to Guruji, who merely said, "When > > > > > > the people take the boy's corpse to the cremation grounds tell them > > > > > > to send for me before making the funeral pyre." > > > > > > > > > > > > That was done. The corpse was placed on the ground pending Guruji's > > > > > > arrival. Guruji came. He had the strings securing the shroud > > > > > > removed the kicked the lifeless head gently with his foot, saying, > > > > > > "Why do you sleep so much?" And lo, the boy was on his feet! It was > > > > > > a miracle that dazed everyone present. Wonderstruck, they bowed to > > > > > > the great Mahatma in their midst. > > > > > > > > > > > > On reaching their hut, Guruji said to the Maharaj Shri, "It's > > > > > > better to leave this place right now before all the dead people > > > > > > here start pestering us for life!" And with that Guruji left - > > > > > > leaving Maharaj Shri alone! > > > > > > > > > > > > ~ Excerpt from "The Whole Thing - The Real Thing" > > > > > > - 'The Recluse' - Chapter 4 > > > > > > http://www.shrigurudevji.com/article.asp?article=recluse > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
One obviously accepts what one wishes to accept - and rejects what one wishes to reject. > Understanding based on wishful thinking --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > > > Do you facts to show this event really happened? > > > > > > > > Of course you don't, nobody does, so it's a story or perhaps > > > > a legend > > > > > > The story appears in two versions of Guru Dev's biography > > > which was essentially a compilation of discourses by Guru > > > Dev written down by his disciples wherein he described his > > > own personal experiences. > > > > > > Maybe he or they lied, eh? > > > > Similarly, if one looks at the life of Frederick > > Lenz - Rama, there are compilations of accounts > > by hundreds of his students (including my accounts) > > that report any number of phenomena that most would > > consider "miracles" or the performance of siddhis. > > They are equally true, right? :-) > > > > > And maybe even though Guru Dev was considered to have > > > reached the highest pinnacle of spiritual development... > > > > By whom? By people who had a vested interest in > > protecting their "investment" of time and energy > > and their lives into his teachings. You went > > through the TM movement, and saw how willing > > people were to pass along rumors and make up > > stuff to justify *that* investment of time and > > energy and their lives, right? And you think that > > things were somehow *different* around Guru Dev? > > > > > ...the use of the siddhis is total bullshit after all. > > > Ya think? > > > > Unlike most (if not all) of you on this forum, I > > have witnessed siddhis being performed. Were they > > "real," in the sense that they would have been > > captured by a video camera recording the events? > > Beats the shit outa me. Were they "real" in the > > sense that I and hundreds of others witnessed > > them and reported witnessing them? You betcha. > > > > So what makes any of these reports of siddhis > > any different than the ones you believe that > > Guru Dev performed? The fact that you feel an > > emotionoal resonance with him? That's real > > scientific. :-) > > > > It's a story, John. Unless you were there at the > > time to witness it yourself, you have *no idea* > > whether it is a true story or not. And my point > > is that even if you *had* been there you would > > not know. All that you would "know" is what you > > saw, or convinced yourself that you saw. That > > is not the same thing as "truth." > > > > I can accept this, having witnessed siddhis. > > Why can't you, having not? > > > > > > One obviously accepts what one wishes to accept - and rejects what one wishes > to reject. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
Raising someone from the dead deserves some scrutiny, unless it's not taken seriously, since I've never heard a big debate on this story. Afterall this book has been around for years and I know many have read it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > Do you facts to show this event really happened? > > > > Of course you don't, nobody does, so it's a story or perhaps a legend > > > > The story appears in two versions of Guru Dev's biography which was > essentially a compilation of discourses by Guru Dev written down by his > disciples wherein he described his own personal experiences. > > Maybe he or they lied, eh? > > And maybe even though Guru Dev was considered to have reached the highest > pinnacle of spiritual development, the use of the siddhis is total bullshit > after all. Ya think? > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > > > Certainly a nice story, nothing more > > > > > > > > > > > > Either the story is factual - or it isn't, eh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TWENTY-FIVE was the age when Shri Maharaj [Guru Dev] accompanied by > > > > > his Guruji [Swami Krishnand Saraswati] descended from Uttarkashi > > > > > having completed his study of the scriptures and having discovered > > > > > the truth about his innermost Self. > > > > > > > > > > For about a month, they stopped over at the small picturesque village > > > > > of Kajliwan, near Rishikesh. Set amidst a dense jungle that supported > > > > > many wild carnivorous animals, it was a place that nevertheless held > > > > > a special welcome to the Sadhus and Mahatmas. Maharaj Shri and Guruji > > > > > were given a rousing reception by the people of Kajliwan and other > > > > > surrounding villages. > > > > > > > > > > Among the throng of darshan-seekers was a Brahmin milkman, whose > > > > > practice it was to offer milk to the holy guests that visited the > > > > > place. Maharaj Shri arranged with him to bring everyday half a litre > > > > > of milk which he would boil and serve to Guruji every night. > > > > > > > > > > One day, it so happened that the Brahmin's wife said, "The cow has > > > > > given very little milk today. It will not be enough even for the > > > > > children." The Brahmin, however, paid no heed to his wife and > > > > > supplied half a litre as usual to the honoured guests. > > > > > > > > > > When Maharaj Shri warmed up the milk and served it to Guruji, he > > > > > said, "There is the woe in the milk today. I shall not drink it. > > > > > Please return it to milkman and tell him to stop giving it." Maharaj > > > > > Shri did as he was told. > > > > > > > > > > About fifteen days later, as fate would have it, the milkman's son > > > > > died. The whole place was agog with the rumour that Guruji was > > > > > displeased with the Brahmin milkman and therefore he had lost his > > > > > son. Maharaj Shri conveyed this to Guruji, who merely said, "When the > > > > > people take the boy's corpse to the cremation grounds tell them to > > > > > send for me before making the funeral pyre." > > > > > > > > > > That was done. The corpse was placed on the ground pending Guruji's > > > > > arrival. Guruji came. He had the strings securing the shroud removed > > > > > the kicked the lifeless head gently with his foot, saying, "Why do > > > > > you sleep so much?" And lo, the boy was on his feet! It was a miracle > > > > > that dazed everyone present. Wonderstruck, they bowed to the great > > > > > Mahatma in their midst. > > > > > > > > > > On reaching their hut, Guruji said to the Maharaj Shri, "It's better > > > > > to leave this place right now before all the dead people here start > > > > > pestering us for life!" And with that Guruji left - leaving Maharaj > > > > > Shri alone! > > > > > > > > > > ~ Excerpt from "The Whole Thing - The Real Thing" > > > > > - 'The Recluse' - Chapter 4 > > > > > http://www.shrigurudevji.com/article.asp?article=recluse > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > Do you facts to show this event really happened? > > > > > > Of course you don't, nobody does, so it's a story or perhaps > > > a legend > > > > The story appears in two versions of Guru Dev's biography > > which was essentially a compilation of discourses by Guru > > Dev written down by his disciples wherein he described his > > own personal experiences. > > > > Maybe he or they lied, eh? > > Similarly, if one looks at the life of Frederick > Lenz - Rama, there are compilations of accounts > by hundreds of his students (including my accounts) > that report any number of phenomena that most would > consider "miracles" or the performance of siddhis. > They are equally true, right? :-) > > > And maybe even though Guru Dev was considered to have > > reached the highest pinnacle of spiritual development... > > By whom? By people who had a vested interest in > protecting their "investment" of time and energy > and their lives into his teachings. You went > through the TM movement, and saw how willing > people were to pass along rumors and make up > stuff to justify *that* investment of time and > energy and their lives, right? And you think that > things were somehow *different* around Guru Dev? > > > ...the use of the siddhis is total bullshit after all. > > Ya think? > > Unlike most (if not all) of you on this forum, I > have witnessed siddhis being performed. Were they > "real," in the sense that they would have been > captured by a video camera recording the events? > Beats the shit outa me. Were they "real" in the > sense that I and hundreds of others witnessed > them and reported witnessing them? You betcha. > > So what makes any of these reports of siddhis > any different than the ones you believe that > Guru Dev performed? The fact that you feel an > emotionoal resonance with him? That's real > scientific. :-) > > It's a story, John. Unless you were there at the > time to witness it yourself, you have *no idea* > whether it is a true story or not. And my point > is that even if you *had* been there you would > not know. All that you would "know" is what you > saw, or convinced yourself that you saw. That > is not the same thing as "truth." > > I can accept this, having witnessed siddhis. > Why can't you, having not? > One obviously accepts what one wishes to accept - and rejects what one wishes to reject.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > Do you facts to show this event really happened? > > > > Of course you don't, nobody does, so it's a story or perhaps > > a legend > > The story appears in two versions of Guru Dev's biography > which was essentially a compilation of discourses by Guru > Dev written down by his disciples wherein he described his > own personal experiences. > > Maybe he or they lied, eh? Similarly, if one looks at the life of Frederick Lenz - Rama, there are compilations of accounts by hundreds of his students (including my accounts) that report any number of phenomena that most would consider "miracles" or the performance of siddhis. They are equally true, right? :-) > And maybe even though Guru Dev was considered to have > reached the highest pinnacle of spiritual development... By whom? By people who had a vested interest in protecting their "investment" of time and energy and their lives into his teachings. You went through the TM movement, and saw how willing people were to pass along rumors and make up stuff to justify *that* investment of time and energy and their lives, right? And you think that things were somehow *different* around Guru Dev? > ...the use of the siddhis is total bullshit after all. > Ya think? Unlike most (if not all) of you on this forum, I have witnessed siddhis being performed. Were they "real," in the sense that they would have been captured by a video camera recording the events? Beats the shit outa me. Were they "real" in the sense that I and hundreds of others witnessed them and reported witnessing them? You betcha. So what makes any of these reports of siddhis any different than the ones you believe that Guru Dev performed? The fact that you feel an emotionoal resonance with him? That's real scientific. :-) It's a story, John. Unless you were there at the time to witness it yourself, you have *no idea* whether it is a true story or not. And my point is that even if you *had* been there you would not know. All that you would "know" is what you saw, or convinced yourself that you saw. That is not the same thing as "truth." I can accept this, having witnessed siddhis. Why can't you, having not?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > Do you facts to show this event really happened? > > Of course you don't, nobody does, so it's a story or perhaps a legend The story appears in two versions of Guru Dev's biography which was essentially a compilation of discourses by Guru Dev written down by his disciples wherein he described his own personal experiences. Maybe he or they lied, eh? And maybe even though Guru Dev was considered to have reached the highest pinnacle of spiritual development, the use of the siddhis is total bullshit after all. Ya think? > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > > > Certainly a nice story, nothing more > > > > > > > > Either the story is factual - or it isn't, eh? > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TWENTY-FIVE was the age when Shri Maharaj [Guru Dev] accompanied by his > > > > Guruji [Swami Krishnand Saraswati] descended from Uttarkashi having > > > > completed his study of the scriptures and having discovered the truth > > > > about his innermost Self. > > > > > > > > For about a month, they stopped over at the small picturesque village > > > > of Kajliwan, near Rishikesh. Set amidst a dense jungle that supported > > > > many wild carnivorous animals, it was a place that nevertheless held a > > > > special welcome to the Sadhus and Mahatmas. Maharaj Shri and Guruji > > > > were given a rousing reception by the people of Kajliwan and other > > > > surrounding villages. > > > > > > > > Among the throng of darshan-seekers was a Brahmin milkman, whose > > > > practice it was to offer milk to the holy guests that visited the > > > > place. Maharaj Shri arranged with him to bring everyday half a litre of > > > > milk which he would boil and serve to Guruji every night. > > > > > > > > One day, it so happened that the Brahmin's wife said, "The cow has > > > > given very little milk today. It will not be enough even for the > > > > children." The Brahmin, however, paid no heed to his wife and supplied > > > > half a litre as usual to the honoured guests. > > > > > > > > When Maharaj Shri warmed up the milk and served it to Guruji, he said, > > > > "There is the woe in the milk today. I shall not drink it. Please > > > > return it to milkman and tell him to stop giving it." Maharaj Shri did > > > > as he was told. > > > > > > > > About fifteen days later, as fate would have it, the milkman's son > > > > died. The whole place was agog with the rumour that Guruji was > > > > displeased with the Brahmin milkman and therefore he had lost his son. > > > > Maharaj Shri conveyed this to Guruji, who merely said, "When the people > > > > take the boy's corpse to the cremation grounds tell them to send for me > > > > before making the funeral pyre." > > > > > > > > That was done. The corpse was placed on the ground pending Guruji's > > > > arrival. Guruji came. He had the strings securing the shroud removed > > > > the kicked the lifeless head gently with his foot, saying, "Why do you > > > > sleep so much?" And lo, the boy was on his feet! It was a miracle that > > > > dazed everyone present. Wonderstruck, they bowed to the great Mahatma > > > > in their midst. > > > > > > > > On reaching their hut, Guruji said to the Maharaj Shri, "It's better to > > > > leave this place right now before all the dead people here start > > > > pestering us for life!" And with that Guruji left - leaving Maharaj > > > > Shri alone! > > > > > > > > ~ Excerpt from "The Whole Thing - The Real Thing" > > > > - 'The Recluse' - Chapter 4 > > > > http://www.shrigurudevji.com/article.asp?article=recluse > > > > > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
Do you facts to show this event really happened? Of course you don't, nobody does, so it's a story or perhaps a legend --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > > > Certainly a nice story, nothing more > > > > Either the story is factual - or it isn't, eh? > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > TWENTY-FIVE was the age when Shri Maharaj [Guru Dev] accompanied by his > > > Guruji [Swami Krishnand Saraswati] descended from Uttarkashi having > > > completed his study of the scriptures and having discovered the truth > > > about his innermost Self. > > > > > > For about a month, they stopped over at the small picturesque village of > > > Kajliwan, near Rishikesh. Set amidst a dense jungle that supported many > > > wild carnivorous animals, it was a place that nevertheless held a special > > > welcome to the Sadhus and Mahatmas. Maharaj Shri and Guruji were given a > > > rousing reception by the people of Kajliwan and other surrounding > > > villages. > > > > > > Among the throng of darshan-seekers was a Brahmin milkman, whose practice > > > it was to offer milk to the holy guests that visited the place. Maharaj > > > Shri arranged with him to bring everyday half a litre of milk which he > > > would boil and serve to Guruji every night. > > > > > > One day, it so happened that the Brahmin's wife said, "The cow has given > > > very little milk today. It will not be enough even for the children." The > > > Brahmin, however, paid no heed to his wife and supplied half a litre as > > > usual to the honoured guests. > > > > > > When Maharaj Shri warmed up the milk and served it to Guruji, he said, > > > "There is the woe in the milk today. I shall not drink it. Please return > > > it to milkman and tell him to stop giving it." Maharaj Shri did as he was > > > told. > > > > > > About fifteen days later, as fate would have it, the milkman's son died. > > > The whole place was agog with the rumour that Guruji was displeased with > > > the Brahmin milkman and therefore he had lost his son. Maharaj Shri > > > conveyed this to Guruji, who merely said, "When the people take the boy's > > > corpse to the cremation grounds tell them to send for me before making > > > the funeral pyre." > > > > > > That was done. The corpse was placed on the ground pending Guruji's > > > arrival. Guruji came. He had the strings securing the shroud removed the > > > kicked the lifeless head gently with his foot, saying, "Why do you sleep > > > so much?" And lo, the boy was on his feet! It was a miracle that dazed > > > everyone present. Wonderstruck, they bowed to the great Mahatma in their > > > midst. > > > > > > On reaching their hut, Guruji said to the Maharaj Shri, "It's better to > > > leave this place right now before all the dead people here start > > > pestering us for life!" And with that Guruji left - leaving Maharaj Shri > > > alone! > > > > > > ~ Excerpt from "The Whole Thing - The Real Thing" > > > - 'The Recluse' - Chapter 4 > > > http://www.shrigurudevji.com/article.asp?article=recluse > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sgrayatlarge wrote: > > Certainly a nice story, nothing more Either the story is factual - or it isn't, eh? > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > > > > > TWENTY-FIVE was the age when Shri Maharaj [Guru Dev] accompanied by his > > Guruji [Swami Krishnand Saraswati] descended from Uttarkashi having > > completed his study of the scriptures and having discovered the truth about > > his innermost Self. > > > > For about a month, they stopped over at the small picturesque village of > > Kajliwan, near Rishikesh. Set amidst a dense jungle that supported many > > wild carnivorous animals, it was a place that nevertheless held a special > > welcome to the Sadhus and Mahatmas. Maharaj Shri and Guruji were given a > > rousing reception by the people of Kajliwan and other surrounding villages. > > > > Among the throng of darshan-seekers was a Brahmin milkman, whose practice > > it was to offer milk to the holy guests that visited the place. Maharaj > > Shri arranged with him to bring everyday half a litre of milk which he > > would boil and serve to Guruji every night. > > > > One day, it so happened that the Brahmin's wife said, "The cow has given > > very little milk today. It will not be enough even for the children." The > > Brahmin, however, paid no heed to his wife and supplied half a litre as > > usual to the honoured guests. > > > > When Maharaj Shri warmed up the milk and served it to Guruji, he said, > > "There is the woe in the milk today. I shall not drink it. Please return it > > to milkman and tell him to stop giving it." Maharaj Shri did as he was > > told. > > > > About fifteen days later, as fate would have it, the milkman's son died. > > The whole place was agog with the rumour that Guruji was displeased with > > the Brahmin milkman and therefore he had lost his son. Maharaj Shri > > conveyed this to Guruji, who merely said, "When the people take the boy's > > corpse to the cremation grounds tell them to send for me before making the > > funeral pyre." > > > > That was done. The corpse was placed on the ground pending Guruji's > > arrival. Guruji came. He had the strings securing the shroud removed the > > kicked the lifeless head gently with his foot, saying, "Why do you sleep so > > much?" And lo, the boy was on his feet! It was a miracle that dazed > > everyone present. Wonderstruck, they bowed to the great Mahatma in their > > midst. > > > > On reaching their hut, Guruji said to the Maharaj Shri, "It's better to > > leave this place right now before all the dead people here start pestering > > us for life!" And with that Guruji left - leaving Maharaj Shri alone! > > > > ~ Excerpt from "The Whole Thing - The Real Thing" > > - 'The Recluse' - Chapter 4 > > http://www.shrigurudevji.com/article.asp?article=recluse > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev's master brings a boy back to life
Certainly a nice story, nothing more --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" wrote: > > > > TWENTY-FIVE was the age when Shri Maharaj [Guru Dev] accompanied by his > Guruji [Swami Krishnand Saraswati] descended from Uttarkashi having completed > his study of the scriptures and having discovered the truth about his > innermost Self. > > For about a month, they stopped over at the small picturesque village of > Kajliwan, near Rishikesh. Set amidst a dense jungle that supported many wild > carnivorous animals, it was a place that nevertheless held a special welcome > to the Sadhus and Mahatmas. Maharaj Shri and Guruji were given a rousing > reception by the people of Kajliwan and other surrounding villages. > > Among the throng of darshan-seekers was a Brahmin milkman, whose practice it > was to offer milk to the holy guests that visited the place. Maharaj Shri > arranged with him to bring everyday half a litre of milk which he would boil > and serve to Guruji every night. > > One day, it so happened that the Brahmin's wife said, "The cow has given very > little milk today. It will not be enough even for the children." The Brahmin, > however, paid no heed to his wife and supplied half a litre as usual to the > honoured guests. > > When Maharaj Shri warmed up the milk and served it to Guruji, he said, "There > is the woe in the milk today. I shall not drink it. Please return it to > milkman and tell him to stop giving it." Maharaj Shri did as he was told. > > About fifteen days later, as fate would have it, the milkman's son died. The > whole place was agog with the rumour that Guruji was displeased with the > Brahmin milkman and therefore he had lost his son. Maharaj Shri conveyed this > to Guruji, who merely said, "When the people take the boy's corpse to the > cremation grounds tell them to send for me before making the funeral pyre." > > That was done. The corpse was placed on the ground pending Guruji's arrival. > Guruji came. He had the strings securing the shroud removed the kicked the > lifeless head gently with his foot, saying, "Why do you sleep so much?" And > lo, the boy was on his feet! It was a miracle that dazed everyone present. > Wonderstruck, they bowed to the great Mahatma in their midst. > > On reaching their hut, Guruji said to the Maharaj Shri, "It's better to leave > this place right now before all the dead people here start pestering us for > life!" And with that Guruji left - leaving Maharaj Shri alone! > > ~ Excerpt from "The Whole Thing - The Real Thing" > - 'The Recluse' - Chapter 4 > http://www.shrigurudevji.com/article.asp?article=recluse >
