[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
 In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says the same thing...Only through 
 devotion can one gain liberation.

You ought to read MMY's Science of Being and Art of
Living and his Gita translation and commentary sometime.

He has a great deal to say about the role of devotion
in gaining liberation. He says once one has achieved
the first stage of enlightenment, cosmic consciousness,
devotion begins to develop naturally and is the engine
by which one progresses to God consciousness and
ultimately to Unity consciousness, final liberation.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[netineti3]

 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sticheau sticheau@ wrote:
  

   
   
   
   Dude, you need an Advanced Technique ($3,000)!
  
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 no_reply@ wrote:

  I had a few of them, the last one was $300 and I thought that was
  outrageous.
  
  A real Guru would not ask a penny for such knowledge.
Harih Om Tat Sat

 
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 1) MMY never claimed to be a guru in that sense.
 2) leaving aside allegations of corruption (is any large
organization immune to that?), the 
 money goes to pay for programs of development, not personal gain. Of
course, you might 
 think that MMY was al about the ego, and that is your right, but it
seems a superficial 
 evaluation of him, to me.
 
 Lawson



Where did I ever suggest anything about ego?
Other than the evidence lies in the fact that basically all the
various branches of Veda were renamed and trademarked with the name
Maharishi
My evaluations are based on what scripture says about selling Veda.

I was overjoyed for years.

Nobody here can know the extent of karmic results from all this.

I only pray to be forgiven for any mistakes I made, to see the path
clearly and that Mother Goddess as Guru light the way.

Jai Sri Mata

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[netineti3]

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ 
 wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 
 sandiego108@ 
   wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvosteen monroe1@ 
 wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ 
 wrote:
 
  
  On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:
  
   We were told that TM was the fastest way to liberation.
   Where did this declaration come from?
  
  
  The TM PR machine.
 
 Maharishi said this himself which I saw on some video during 
phase ! 
 of TTC. If I remember correctly he said TM was a jet plane 
 to 
 enlightenment. This was a response to someone referring to 
 Kriya 
yoga 
 as the airplane to enlightenment.
 
 Please correct me if I don't have this quite right, its been 
 over 
30 
 years.

kriya yoga = propeller plane, TM = jet plane, TM-Siddhis = 
 rocket 
ship.
   
   :-)
  
  That man who said Give me a Million and you'll get enlightenment.
  That man who contradicted Patanjali's own text.
  Siddhis don't bring enlightenment. 
  Believing it doesn't make it right.
 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 believing it doesn't make it shit. experience is the only proof, 
 ever.

How valid is experience, really?
Isn't it tainted with all vasanas and samskaras.
Experience could be the shite
in the end.

Who knows?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[sandiego108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 no_reply@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 
no_reply@ 
  wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 
  sandiego108@ 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvosteen 
monroe1@ 
  wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ 
  wrote:
  
   
   On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:
   
We were told that TM was the fastest way to 
liberation.
Where did this declaration come from?
   
   
   The TM PR machine.
  
  Maharishi said this himself which I saw on some video 
during 
 phase ! 
  of TTC. If I remember correctly he said TM was a jet 
plane 
  to 
  enlightenment. This was a response to someone referring 
to 
  Kriya 
 yoga 
  as the airplane to enlightenment.
  
  Please correct me if I don't have this quite right, its 
been 
  over 
 30 
  years.
 
 kriya yoga = propeller plane, TM = jet plane, TM-Siddhis = 
  rocket 
 ship.

:-)
   
   That man who said Give me a Million and you'll get 
enlightenment.
   That man who contradicted Patanjali's own text.
   Siddhis don't bring enlightenment. 
   Believing it doesn't make it right.
  
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 sandiego108@
 wrote:
 
  believing it doesn't make it shit. experience is the only proof, 
  ever.
 
 How valid is experience, really?
 Isn't it tainted with all vasanas and samskaras.
 Experience could be the shite
 in the end.
 
 Who knows?

yes, i agree we are also free to over-think and confuse ourselves as 
often as we like. for me a rock is just a rock. for others, who 
knows?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Angela Mailander]

If you're Shakespeare schooled in the sweet uses of
adversity, you'll hear sermons in stones.




--- sandiego108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3
 no_reply@ 
 wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 nablusoss1008 
 no_reply@ 
   wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 sandiego108 
   sandiego108@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 wvosteen 
 monroe1@ 
   wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 Vaj vajranatha@ 
   wrote:
   

On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3
 wrote:

 We were told that TM was the fastest
 way to 
 liberation.
 Where did this declaration come
 from?


The TM PR machine.
   
   Maharishi said this himself which I saw
 on some video 
 during 
  phase ! 
   of TTC. If I remember correctly he said
 TM was a jet 
 plane 
   to 
   enlightenment. This was a response to
 someone referring 
 to 
   Kriya 
  yoga 
   as the airplane to enlightenment.
   
   Please correct me if I don't have this
 quite right, its 
 been 
   over 
  30 
   years.
  
  kriya yoga = propeller plane, TM = jet
 plane, TM-Siddhis = 
   rocket 
  ship.
 
 :-)

That man who said Give me a Million and
 you'll get 
 enlightenment.
That man who contradicted Patanjali's own
 text.
Siddhis don't bring enlightenment. 
Believing it doesn't make it right.
   
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 sandiego108 sandiego108@
  wrote:
  
   believing it doesn't make it shit. experience is
 the only proof, 
   ever.
  
  How valid is experience, really?
  Isn't it tainted with all vasanas and samskaras.
  Experience could be the shite
  in the end.
  
  Who knows?
 
 yes, i agree we are also free to over-think and
 confuse ourselves as 
 often as we like. for me a rock is just a rock. for
 others, who 
 knows?
 
 


Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 What is passing and where is the through?
 Only repetition of the name of Devi is enough to produce samadhi. 
 Even having considered it for the slightest of split seconds yet 
 one already instantaneously has attained samadhi. Repetition 
 produces moksha.

LOL. Kirk, I read your message above while waiting for
my cafe con leche to arrive, and in that uncaffein-
ated state read 'Devil' for 'Devi.'

I said to myself, Wow...Kirk is meditating on the
devil now. Weird, but whatever floats his boat.

Then I reread it, and discovered the truth. Which 
is, for this unredeemed nontheistic and nondevotional
soul, that the statement is probably true in either
case. What you get is what you expect to get. Repeat
pretty much anything convinced that it'll bring you
benefit and sure enough, you'll perceive that the
benefits are there.

I might even try it myself. Salma. Salma. Salma...

:-)

 - Original Message - 
 From: netineti3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 5:53 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question
 
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk kirk_bernhardt@ wrote:
 
  Yet in Sri Vidya the sidhis are but the outer courtyard.
- Original Message - 
 
  Trilokya Mohana Chakram, Yes..it attracts everyone in the universe.
  But we must pass through it and the others, each increasingly more
  beautiful in order to achieve Mother's Grace.
 
  Jai Sri Mata!
 
 
 
From: Vaj
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Mostly lurking with a question
 
 
 
 
On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:
 
 
  From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of scriptural
  foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those shastras.
  Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic
mind and
  have no basis in what is Truth.
 
  Do people seek siddhis for power?
  If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
  They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
 
 
Exactly--and this is also an almost unanimous declaration from
  yogic texts. In fact, the primary text on Enlightenment up to this
  very day in the Shank. tradition says this as well--which it also adds
  that one will never attain even CC if one uses the samyama siddhi
  formulae, esp. yogic flying! So clearly this has no basis in the
  tradition of enlightenment coming from Shankara.
 
 
Knowledge of Cosmic Consciousness (jiivanmuktiviveka)
 
 
5. The Renunciation of the Knower
 
 
5.1 The Path of the Paramahamsa Yogins
 
 
5.1.4. The two terms (paramahamsa and yogin) are used together
  in order to exclude someone who is only a yogin and someone who is a
  paramahamsa. Someone who is only a yogin is a person who, because of
  his lack of the knowledge of truth, is attached to amazing feats of
  yogic power, such as knowing the past, present, and future, yogic
  flying, etc., and has made efforts toward this or that (siddhi) with
  the various samyama formulae.  Consequently he becomes separated from
  the highest aim of human existence, Cosmic Consciousness.
 
 
 
 
 
  To subscribe, send a message to:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  Or go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
  and click 'Join This Group!'
  Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Feb 19, 2008, at 6:12 PM, cardemaister wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
  
  
   On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:
  
From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of 
scriptural
foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those 
shastras.
Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic 
mind
  and
have no basis in what is Truth.
   
Do people seek siddhis for power?
If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
  
   Exactly--and this is also an almost unanimous declaration from
  yogic
   texts. In fact, the primary text on Enlightenment up to this 
very
  day
   in the Shank. tradition says this as well--which it also adds 
that
  one
   will never attain even CC if one uses the samyama siddhi
  formulae,
   esp. yogic flying! So clearly this has no basis in the 
tradition
  of
   enlightenment coming from Shankara.
 
  That's really weird, *if* Vyaasa, the famous commentator
  of Yoga-suutras is Krishna Dvaipaayana aka Baadaraayana,
  the writer of vedaanta-suutras (aka brahma-suutras, 
shaariiraka-
  suutras.)
 
 Vyasa just means compiler, it does not necessarily refer to a  
 singular historical person. There were at least 7 
different Vyasas  
 from what I was taught.


Are you implying, that some present day guru, who doesn't even 
necessarily know Sanskrit very well, is a more reliable 
commentator of YS than Vyaasa, whoever s/he was?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[do.rflex]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, deepaconn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 no_reply@ wrote:
 
 
 In verse 12 of Sri Guru Gita, Lord Shiva continues to tell Parvati
 Devi about false gurus...
 
 Just so you know...my spiritual lingo comes, probably, 90% from the TMO,
 although I supplemented my words in this discussion with knowledge
 gleaned from an old time Sidha Yoga friend (from Muktananda's time).
 Recitation and study of the Guru Gita was a cornerstone of their
 practices.
 
 My understanding about Guru Gita is that it's addressing Guru on several
 levels. At the beginning of the seeker's path, you've got the
 in-the-body Guru you're(hopefully) relating to on a day-to-day basis.
 
 If one doesn't know the qualilty of Guru, all the ritualistic
 practices, prayers, penances are useless
 
 
 At the end of the path, you've got  the ultimate level, the experience
 of the Guru as Self/Brahman/the Absolute. Given that understanding, the
 above quote makes perfect sense. If one does not know the Self, the
 object of  veneration, then the rutuals are useless. I remember M saying
 -- help me, here, if I'm wrong -- until one knows who the almighty is,
 of what use is prayer? You can cry-out in prayer, but you will not know
 who/what are you praying to?
 
 The irony of all this is that by the time the seeker experiences that
 Guru and Self are one, prayer falls away, because there is no one to
 pray to...only oneness prevails.
 
 In the absence of knowledge of the quaility of Guru all other
 knowledges lead but to ignorance, so they are called the agents of
 illusion. Shiva says that those who are fond of them are petty minded.
 
 Again, if Guru and Self are not perceived as the same thing-- evolution
 of consciousness is not yet complete -- then Capture the Fort applys.
 Don't get distracted.
 
 Thanks for bringing up some interesting points for discussion.
 
 Cath


The way of the group of those who believe in nirguNa [without
qualities alone] spread more wickedness because these people do not
accept the manifest form of Bhagavan [God] and suppose that the
niraakaara [formless] cannot see or hear.

So they do their mind's desires; they have no concern for what is
wicked and what is sacred.

=

'For the welfare of saadhu and for the destruction of the wicked I am
manifest and for the estsablishment of dharma I am manifest.'

~Bhagavad Gita 4:8


By the word saadhu don't understand it to be the ones who have
red-brown tilaka marking or maalaa of beads around the neck. The
meaning of the word saadhu is 'good', the person who has a good
disposition that man exists as a saadhu, that man accepts the code of
conduct of the Veda shaastra, whose faith is in tending his own
religion. Really for the welfare of them Bhagavan becomes the avataara
(incarnation).

~~ Swami Brahmananda Saraswati - Guru Dev
[Shri Shankaracharya UpadeshAmrita kaNa 88 of 108]
http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/UA_Hindi.htm#kaNa_88

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Kirk]

 I said to myself, Wow...Kirk is meditating on the
 devil now. Weird, but whatever floats his boat.

 Then I reread it, and discovered the truth. Which
 is, for this unredeemed nontheistic and nondevotional
 soul, that the statement is probably true in either
 case. What you get is what you expect to get. Repeat
 pretty much anything convinced that it'll bring you
 benefit and sure enough, you'll perceive that the
 benefits are there.


---Or samadhi is closer than most people give it credit for. This line was 
really lifted from the Saundarya Lahiri. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[new . morning]

Well, which Vyassa is the one living in the Himalayas with a refined
etheric body, for whom there is no record of him dropping the body
( from MMY).



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 
  
  On Feb 19, 2008, at 6:12 PM, cardemaister wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
   
   
On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:
   
 From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of 
 scriptural
 foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those 
 shastras.
 Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic 
 mind
   and
 have no basis in what is Truth.

 Do people seek siddhis for power?
 If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
 They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
   
Exactly--and this is also an almost unanimous declaration from
   yogic
texts. In fact, the primary text on Enlightenment up to this 
 very
   day
in the Shank. tradition says this as well--which it also adds 
 that
   one
will never attain even CC if one uses the samyama siddhi
   formulae,
esp. yogic flying! So clearly this has no basis in the 
 tradition
   of
enlightenment coming from Shankara.
  
   That's really weird, *if* Vyaasa, the famous commentator
   of Yoga-suutras is Krishna Dvaipaayana aka Baadaraayana,
   the writer of vedaanta-suutras (aka brahma-suutras, 
 shaariiraka-
   suutras.)
  
  Vyasa just means compiler, it does not necessarily refer to a  
  singular historical person. There were at least 7 
 different Vyasas  
  from what I was taught.
 
 
 Are you implying, that some present day guru, who doesn't even 
 necessarily know Sanskrit very well, is a more reliable 
 commentator of YS than Vyaasa, whoever s/he was?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Gary Smith]

Hi Anatol,
 
I'd love to hear more about your experience's with Amma. I learned her I AM
meditation 10 days or so ago. I had a hug from her about six years ago and
then forgot all about it. A few weeks ago, I started having the memory (and
feeling) of the hug. Anyway, I feel very close to her and would love to hear
about your experiences.
 
Best,
Gary
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[wvosteen]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:
 
  We were told that TM was the fastest way to liberation.
  Where did this declaration come from?
 
 
 The TM PR machine.

Maharishi said this himself which I saw on some video during phase ! 
of TTC. If I remember correctly he said TM was a jet plane to 
enlightenment. This was a response to someone referring to Kriya yoga 
as the airplane to enlightenment.

Please correct me if I don't have this quite right, its been over 30 
years.

 

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Rick Archer]

 

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Gary Smith
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:13 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

 

Hi Anatol,

 

I'd love to hear more about your experience's with Amma. I learned her I AM
meditation 10 days or so ago. I had a hug from her about six years ago and
then forgot all about it. A few weeks ago, I started having the memory (and
feeling) of the hug. Anyway, I feel very close to her and would love to hear
about your experiences.

 

Best,

Gary

Are you the Gary Smith who used to fly Maharishi’s helicopter? I think he
was from Utah.


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1288 - Release Date: 2/19/2008
8:47 PM
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Gary Smith]

No, sorry.
 
I know that you are fond of Amma as well. Would you feel comfortable sharing
your thoughts?
 
Best,
Gary

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk kirk_bernhardt@ 
 wrote:
 
  Yet in Sri Vidya the sidhis are but the outer courtyard. 
- Original Message - 
From: Vaj 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Mostly lurking with a question
  
  
  
  
On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:
  
  
  From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of scriptural
  foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those 
 shastras.
  Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic 
 mind and
  have no basis in what is Truth.
  
  Do people seek siddhis for power? 
  If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
  They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
  
  
Exactly--and this is also an almost unanimous declaration from 
 yogic texts. In fact, the primary text on Enlightenment up to this 
 very day in the Shank. tradition says this as well--which it also 
 adds that one will never attain even CC if one uses the samyama 
 siddhi formulae, esp. yogic flying! So clearly this has no basis in 
 the tradition of enlightenment coming from Shankara.
  
  
Knowledge of Cosmic Consciousness (jiivanmuktiviveka)
  
  
5. The Renunciation of the Knower
  
  
5.1 The Path of the Paramahamsa Yogins
  
  
5.1.4. The two terms (paramahamsa and yogin) are used 
 together in order to exclude someone who is only a yogin and someone 
 who is a paramahamsa. Someone who is only a yogin is a person who, 
 because of his lack of the knowledge of truth, is attached to 
 amazing feats of yogic power, such as knowing the past, present, and 
 future, yogic flying, etc., and has made efforts toward this or that 
 (siddhi) with the various samyama formulae.  Consequently he becomes 
 separated from the highest aim of human existence, Cosmic 
 Consciousness.
 
 
 you are misintepreting this text. you comment first that one will 
 never attain even CC if one uses the samyama siddhi formulae, when 
 in fact the text you quote specifically states that Someone 
 who...is *attached* [my emphasis] to amazing feats of yogic 
 power,... he becomes separated from the highest aim of human 
 existence, Cosmic Consciousness. 
 
 so believe whatever you want but the operative expression has to do 
 with attachment to the results of the siddhis, and not just their 
 practice.


Yep. Vaj apparently thinks that people in the TMO bounce on their butts for 20+ 
years, for 
hours every day, solely to be able, perhaps, someday stay in the air for a 
second longer 
than someone who is merely jumping up and down would.

Its kinda hard to be attached to the outcome of a practice like that. A little 
thought on his 
part would lead him to this conclusion. Helsinki, listening to the official TM 
rhetoric about 
the purpose of the practice of Yogic Flying would lead him to realize that 
there's no 
possibility for attachment to floating in the TM Yogic FLying practice.

The discussions of TM Sidhas on this forum would also lead him to realize that 
the above 
isn't relevant. But NOO, he  has been told this countless times on this 
forum 
and still trots out the above.

And people like to point out MY OCD issues



Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sticheau sticheau@ wrote:
 
   Harih Om Tat Sat
  
  
  
  Dude, you need an Advanced Technique ($3,000)!
 
 I had a few of them, the last one was $300 and I thought that was
 outrageous.
 
 A real Guru would not ask a penny for such knowledge.


1) MMY never claimed to be a guru in that sense.
2) leaving aside allegations of corruption (is any large organization immune to 
that?), the 
money goes to pay for programs of development, not personal gain. Of course, 
you might 
think that MMY was al about the ego, and that is your right, but it seems a 
superficial 
evaluation of him, to me.

Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[suziezuzie]

This sounds exactly like what the Hari Krishna people use to tell me
when I hung around with them in the LA temple back in the 80s, that
meditation is not for this age and that an experience of the
impersonal absolute is inferior to a personal relationship to Krishna,
i.e., Bakti yoga, and that this impersonal experience would eventually
get you to Krishna anyway so why waste your time meditating besides
being too difficult? I didn't argue since I had become rather friendly
with some of the Krishna devotees but did tell them that it wasn't
hard for me and I preferred this path, TM. They were quite amazed that
it was so easy for me and encouraged me to continue since I would 'get
to Krishna Consciousness anyway, even if it did take longer'. That was
fine until one day, I decided to meditate in the temple upstairs on
the balcony and in the middle of TM, experienced a Hari Krishna astral
entity who came up to me and said, 'you can't do that here' so I got
up and left. A few years later in Hawaii I stayed the night in a Hari
Krishna temple on the big island of Hawaii and in the middle of the
night while asleep, was confronted by Hari Krishna astral beings who
asked me why I continued with TM and felt I should convert to Hari
Krishna. I refused and left the next morning. In Chicago, I spent the
night at the Hari Krishna temple and while sleeping, again was
confronted by astral beings but this time it was a wrestling match
much like Jacob wrestling the angel and I won. The next morning I
headed for Fairfield in Iowa. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 no_reply@ wrote:
 
  
  I have been lurking since the passing, from time to time as such
 allows. 
  
  I used to live in FF for many years and involved with the TMO since
  1971. I had a great intitation experience and became a
  teacher/governor 1974-1976. Sidhi course. (no siddhis)
  Travelled in various capacities..World peace project, Phillipines,
  Rhode Island, Wash. D.C.. I know of some posting here.
  
  I mentioned before that I have become a NTB.
  
  We were told that TM was the fastest way to liberation.
  Where did this declaration come from?
  
  Who believes that the man who started this movement was actually a
  Maharishi?
  What did he do that would make him such?
  
  Much is written here that really amazes me and truly indicates the
  effects of the TM movement which we were told is from the Sankara
  Tradition. 
  Where did Sankara suggest anything that we were told by this
  apparently realized being? Not a satguru. 
  He himself said I am not a personal guru. 
  How could he be a satguru then? Guru Tattva is not this model.
  
  From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of scriptural
  foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those shastras.
  Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic mind and
  have no basis in what is Truth.
  
  Do people seek siddhis for power? 
  If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
  They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
  
  Ravana was well versed and in total command of Veda. He was a great
  devotee of Shiva and gained boons from Him.
  Yet Ravana was a demon. Wanting only more and more. Especially of what
  he could not have. It was his downfall.
  
  Maharishi Kapila who was Vishnu incarnate, and the one who gave us
  Sankhya Knowledge, when asked by His mother Devahuti about gaining
  liberation from this samsara, said:
  No other way by which yogis may attain the Brahma is more easy and
  auspicious that the way of devotion to the Exalted Lord, the Soul in
  all that is.
  Only by that steadfastness of mind which is gained by concentrating
  it on Me through intense and sustained dvotion can men in this world
  achieve Moksha.Srimad Bhagavatam Chapter 25.
  
  In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says the same thing...Only through devotion
  can one gain liberation.
  
  Adi Sankara, whose name is invoked as the TMO tradition of Holy
  Masters, says Bhaja Govindam Singing the names of the Lord
  (namasankirtana) is the fastest way and the easiest road. Devotion to
  Lord as Guru in Guru Ashtakam Many other works of His indicate
 devotion.
  
  In verse 12 of Sri Guru Gita, Lord Shiva continues to tell Parvati
  Devi about false gurus...
  If one doesn't know the qualilty of Guru, all the ritualistic
  practices, prayers, penances are useless
   In the absence of knowledge of the quaility of Guru all other
  knowledges lead but to ignorance, so they are called the agents of
  illusion. Shiva says that those who are fond of them are petty minded.
  
  When was any of this taught in the TMO?
  
  Kali yuga isn't the best climate for gaining liberation through
  meditation. Too much noise.
  
  Krita yuga...Meditation
  Treta yuga...Yagnas
  Dvapara yuga..Bhakti
  Kali yuga...Namsankirtana
  
  In the little I have read in this group, little is spoken of prayer.
  Little is heard 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  No other way by which yogis may attain the Brahma is more easy and
  auspicious that the way of devotion to the Exalted Lord, the Soul in
  all that is.
  Only by that steadfastness of mind which is gained by concentrating
  it on Me through intense and sustained dvotion can men in this world
  achieve Moksha.Srimad Bhagavatam Chapter 25.
  
  In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says the same thing...Only through 
  devotion can one gain liberation.
  
  Adi Sankara, whose name is invoked as the TMO tradition of Holy
  Masters, says Bhaja Govindam Singing the names of the Lord
  (namasankirtana) is the fastest way and the easiest road. Devotion 
  to Lord as Guru in Guru Ashtakam Many other works of His indicate
  devotion.
 
  When was any of this taught in the TMO?
 
 
 
 I began TM in 1968. Became an initator in Estes Park 1971. If it's any
 consolation, I agree with almost all of your post - most particularly
 the above.
 
 

Well, gee, lessee: practice the religion you learned at your mother's knee 
comes to mind.

As for specific acts by yourself while a TM teacher, didn't you, at that time, 
believe that 
your teaching people to meditate was one of the very best things you could be 
doing, not 
just for your own spiritual evolution and physical health, but theirs as well?


ANd, lets not forget the people who donate millions of dollars to the TMO for 
Yogic FLying 
scholarships, the building of campus buildings at MUM, the maintenance of Yogic 
Flying 
pundits in other places around theworld, etc.

All of those people likely believe that they are doing some thing wonderful for 
the word: a 
great service to Mankind. And, by extension, by helping bring about Heaven on 
Earth, they 
are actually pouring their money into the establishment of divinity in the 
hearts and minds 
of every human being throughout the world, all of which certainly sounds like a 
devotional 
act towards God to me.

What is funny is that you probably believed something like the above while you 
were 
involved in the TMO and yet, since you no longer think the above is a 
worthwhile activity, 
you condemn the beliefs and actions AND MOTIVATIONS  of others who still 
believe that 
they are doing service to God and Man.




Lawson

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Gary Smith
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:57 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

 

No, sorry.

 

I know that you are fond of Amma as well. Would you feel comfortable sharing
your thoughts?

 

Best,

Gary

 

Sure. Anatol will be more eloquent, but I’ll try. But not right now ‘cause
I’m working.


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1288 - Release Date: 2/19/2008
8:47 PM
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[sandiego108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvosteen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 
  
  On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:
  
   We were told that TM was the fastest way to liberation.
   Where did this declaration come from?
  
  
  The TM PR machine.
 
 Maharishi said this himself which I saw on some video during 
phase ! 
 of TTC. If I remember correctly he said TM was a jet plane to 
 enlightenment. This was a response to someone referring to Kriya 
yoga 
 as the airplane to enlightenment.
 
 Please correct me if I don't have this quite right, its been over 
30 
 years.

kriya yoga = propeller plane, TM = jet plane, TM-Siddhis = rocket 
ship.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, suziezuzie [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 This sounds exactly like what the Hari Krishna people use to tell me
 when I hung around with them in the LA temple back in the 80s, that
 meditation is not for this age and that an experience of the
 impersonal absolute is inferior to a personal relationship to Krishna,
 i.e., Bakti yoga, and that this impersonal experience would eventually
 get you to Krishna anyway so why waste your time meditating besides
 being too difficult? I didn't argue since I had become rather friendly
 with some of the Krishna devotees but did tell them that it wasn't
 hard for me and I preferred this path, TM. They were quite amazed that
 it was so easy for me and encouraged me to continue since I would 'get
 to Krishna Consciousness anyway, even if it did take longer'. That was
 fine until one day, I decided to meditate in the temple upstairs on
 the balcony and in the middle of TM, experienced a Hari Krishna astral
 entity who came up to me and said, 'you can't do that here' so I got
 up and left. A few years later in Hawaii I stayed the night in a Hari
 Krishna temple on the big island of Hawaii and in the middle of the
 night while asleep, was confronted by Hari Krishna astral beings who
 asked me why I continued with TM and felt I should convert to Hari
 Krishna. I refused and left the next morning. In Chicago, I spent the
 night at the Hari Krishna temple and while sleeping, again was
 confronted by astral beings but this time it was a wrestling match
 much like Jacob wrestling the angel and I won. The next morning I
 headed for Fairfield in Iowa. 

A group of ISKCON people showed up at the Fairfield farmers market a
few years ago, and they danced and chanted around the market, handing
out pamphlets. I read the pamphlet, and it was all about sexually
repressing yourself in this lifetime so that maybe you'll find
liberation is some future lifetime. It struck me as being a Hindu
version of fundie Xianity... um, no thanks.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Patrick Gillam]

Wow. If this is how pushy the Hari 
Krishna astral beings are, can you 
imagine an encounter with a Scientology 
astral being? A Jehovah's Witness astral 
being? It would be fun to put them in 
a bowl and watch them duke it out.

 ---  suziezuzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 This sounds exactly like what the Hari Krishna people use to tell me
 when I hung around with them in the LA temple back in the 80s, that
 meditation is not for this age and that an experience of the
 impersonal absolute is inferior to a personal relationship to Krishna,
 i.e., Bakti yoga, and that this impersonal experience would eventually
 get you to Krishna anyway so why waste your time meditating besides
 being too difficult? I didn't argue since I had become rather friendly
 with some of the Krishna devotees but did tell them that it wasn't
 hard for me and I preferred this path, TM. They were quite amazed that
 it was so easy for me and encouraged me to continue since I would 'get
 to Krishna Consciousness anyway, even if it did take longer'. That was
 fine until one day, I decided to meditate in the temple upstairs on
 the balcony and in the middle of TM, experienced a Hari Krishna astral
 entity who came up to me and said, 'you can't do that here' so I got
 up and left. A few years later in Hawaii I stayed the night in a Hari
 Krishna temple on the big island of Hawaii and in the middle of the
 night while asleep, was confronted by Hari Krishna astral beings who
 asked me why I continued with TM and felt I should convert to Hari
 Krishna. I refused and left the next morning. In Chicago, I spent the
 night at the Hari Krishna temple and while sleeping, again was
 confronted by astral beings but this time it was a wrestling match
 much like Jacob wrestling the angel and I won. The next morning I
 headed for Fairfield in Iowa. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Behalf Of Gary Smith
 Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:57 PM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question
 
  
 
 No, sorry.
 
  
 
 I know that you are fond of Amma as well. Would you feel 
comfortable sharing
 your thoughts?

What he has said here officially is that he uses procedures learned 
from Maharishi to guide Ammas followers in using her mantras. Did 
Amma ask him to do that ? 
No.

 
  
 
 Best,
 
 Gary
 
  
 
 Sure. Anatol will be more eloquent, but I'll try. But not right 
now `cause
 I'm working.
 
 
 No virus found in this outgoing message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1288 - Release Date: 
2/19/2008
 8:47 PM

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvosteen monroe1@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
  
   
   On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:
   
We were told that TM was the fastest way to liberation.
Where did this declaration come from?
   
   
   The TM PR machine.
  
  Maharishi said this himself which I saw on some video during 
 phase ! 
  of TTC. If I remember correctly he said TM was a jet plane to 
  enlightenment. This was a response to someone referring to Kriya 
 yoga 
  as the airplane to enlightenment.
  
  Please correct me if I don't have this quite right, its been over 
 30 
  years.
 
 kriya yoga = propeller plane, TM = jet plane, TM-Siddhis = rocket 
 ship.

:-) 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[netineti3]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 sandiego108@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvosteen monroe1@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
   

On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:

 We were told that TM was the fastest way to liberation.
 Where did this declaration come from?


The TM PR machine.
   
   Maharishi said this himself which I saw on some video during 
  phase ! 
   of TTC. If I remember correctly he said TM was a jet plane to 
   enlightenment. This was a response to someone referring to Kriya 
  yoga 
   as the airplane to enlightenment.
   
   Please correct me if I don't have this quite right, its been over 
  30 
   years.
  
  kriya yoga = propeller plane, TM = jet plane, TM-Siddhis = rocket 
  ship.
 
 :-)

That man who said Give me a Million and you'll get enlightenment.
That man who contradicted Patanjali's own text.
Siddhis don't bring enlightenment. 
Believing it doesn't make it right.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[sandiego108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 sandiego108@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvosteen monroe1@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
   

On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:

 We were told that TM was the fastest way to liberation.
 Where did this declaration come from?


The TM PR machine.
   
   Maharishi said this himself which I saw on some video during 
  phase ! 
   of TTC. If I remember correctly he said TM was a jet plane to 
   enlightenment. This was a response to someone referring to 
Kriya 
  yoga 
   as the airplane to enlightenment.
   
   Please correct me if I don't have this quite right, its been 
over 
  30 
   years.
  
  kriya yoga = propeller plane, TM = jet plane, TM-Siddhis = 
rocket 
  ship.
 
 :-)

yep-- probably jets and rockets because it takes the intense heat 
and power to burn off the heavy carbon deposits ;-) 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[sandiego108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 
sandiego108@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvosteen monroe1@ 
wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ 
wrote:

 
 On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:
 
  We were told that TM was the fastest way to liberation.
  Where did this declaration come from?
 
 
 The TM PR machine.

Maharishi said this himself which I saw on some video during 
   phase ! 
of TTC. If I remember correctly he said TM was a jet plane 
to 
enlightenment. This was a response to someone referring to 
Kriya 
   yoga 
as the airplane to enlightenment.

Please correct me if I don't have this quite right, its been 
over 
   30 
years.
   
   kriya yoga = propeller plane, TM = jet plane, TM-Siddhis = 
rocket 
   ship.
  
  :-)
 
 That man who said Give me a Million and you'll get enlightenment.
 That man who contradicted Patanjali's own text.
 Siddhis don't bring enlightenment. 
 Believing it doesn't make it right.

believing it doesn't make it shit. experience is the only proof, 
ever.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sandiego108 sandiego108@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvosteen monroe1@ wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:

 
 On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:
 
  We were told that TM was the fastest way to liberation.
  Where did this declaration come from?
 
 
 The TM PR machine.

Maharishi said this himself which I saw on some video during 
   phase ! 
of TTC. If I remember correctly he said TM was a jet plane to 
enlightenment. This was a response to someone referring to Kriya 
   yoga 
as the airplane to enlightenment.

Please correct me if I don't have this quite right, its been over 
   30 
years.
   
   kriya yoga = propeller plane, TM = jet plane, TM-Siddhis = rocket 
   ship.
  
  :-)
 
 That man who said Give me a Million and you'll get enlightenment.
 That man who contradicted Patanjali's own text.
 Siddhis don't bring enlightenment. 
 Believing it doesn't make it right.


Asserting he is wrong doesn't make you right, either...


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 I have been lurking since the passing, from time to time as such 
allows. 
 
 I used to live in FF for many years and involved with the TMO since
 1971. I had a great intitation experience and became a
 teacher/governor 1974-1976. Sidhi course. (no siddhis)
 Travelled in various capacities..World peace project, Phillipines,
 Rhode Island, Wash. D.C.. I know of some posting here.
 
 I mentioned before that I have become a NTB.
 
 We were told that TM was the fastest way to liberation.
 Where did this declaration come from?
 
 Who believes that the man who started this movement was actually a
 Maharishi?
 What did he do that would make him such?
 
 Much is written here that really amazes me and truly indicates the
 effects of the TM movement which we were told is from the Sankara
 Tradition. 
 Where did Sankara suggest anything that we were told by this
 apparently realized being? Not a satguru. 
 He himself said I am not a personal guru. 
 How could he be a satguru then? Guru Tattva is not this model.
 
 From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of scriptural
 foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those shastras.
 Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic mind and
 have no basis in what is Truth.
 
 Do people seek siddhis for power? 
 If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
 They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
 
 Ravana was well versed and in total command of Veda. He was a great
 devotee of Shiva and gained boons from Him.
 Yet Ravana was a demon. Wanting only more and more. Especially of 
what
 he could not have. It was his downfall.
 
 Maharishi Kapila who was Vishnu incarnate, and the one who gave us
 Sankhya Knowledge, when asked by His mother Devahuti about gaining
 liberation from this samsara, said:
 No other way by which yogis may attain the Brahma is more easy and
 auspicious that the way of devotion to the Exalted Lord, the Soul in
 all that is.
 Only by that steadfastness of mind which is gained by concentrating
 it on Me through intense and sustained dvotion can men in this world
 achieve Moksha.Srimad Bhagavatam Chapter 25.
 
 In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says the same thing...Only through 
devotion
 can one gain liberation.
 
 Adi Sankara, whose name is invoked as the TMO tradition of Holy
 Masters, says Bhaja Govindam Singing the names of the Lord
 (namasankirtana) is the fastest way and the easiest road. Devotion 
to
 Lord as Guru in Guru Ashtakam Many other works of His indicate 
devotion.
 
 In verse 12 of Sri Guru Gita, Lord Shiva continues to tell Parvati
 Devi about false gurus...
 If one doesn't know the qualilty of Guru, all the ritualistic
 practices, prayers, penances are useless
  In the absence of knowledge of the quaility of Guru all other
 knowledges lead but to ignorance, so they are called the agents of
 illusion. Shiva says that those who are fond of them are petty 
minded.
 
 When was any of this taught in the TMO?
 
 Kali yuga isn't the best climate for gaining liberation through
 meditation. Too much noise.
 
 Krita yuga...Meditation
 Treta yuga...Yagnas
 Dvapara yuga..Bhakti
 Kali yuga...Namsankirtana
 
 In the little I have read in this group, little is spoken of prayer.
 Little is heard of praising the Lord..Whatever name you wish to 
give.
 Much is said about what all of this is.
 Isn't most knowledge posted here referencing what was learned 
through TMO?
 
 The effects of TMO manifest as much confusion, little Truth.
 
 One thing those who spew the negative towards other can count on...
 Your Karmic debt is one of bad tastes.
 
 Moving to Fairfield was the best of my life to that time.
 Leaving Fairfield was so freeing of the illusions we had been fed.
 I am Grateful to have cleared the bowels of that waste.
 
 
 I pray that those sincere seekers find their way.
 There is a Light.
 
 
 Harih Om Tat Sat



Yeah, but my Guru can beat up YOUR Guru...

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Duveyoung]

If the TM mantras are the names of gods, then repeating the mantra is
a form of bhakti, and as one gets more subtle, then the worshipping
song is ever more powerful.

What else is transcending if not gaining ever greater clarity about
the song of songs -- OM?  OM is the hymn of the universe that's
constantly sung -- a worshipping prayer from the Relative to the Absolute.

I wish that Maharishi had published his commentary on chapters 7 - 18.
 The verses are so clearly about worship that he would have been
forced to admit that TM is worship, but there would go the mask of
science the TMO marketed TM with, and that's my theory of why it was
never published.

Since there is only one SELF, all prayers go to the only Sentience 
capable of listening to them.  I love the safety factor in this!

Edg




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 I have been lurking since the passing, from time to time as such
allows. 
 
 I used to live in FF for many years and involved with the TMO since
 1971. I had a great intitation experience and became a
 teacher/governor 1974-1976. Sidhi course. (no siddhis)
 Travelled in various capacities..World peace project, Phillipines,
 Rhode Island, Wash. D.C.. I know of some posting here.
 
 I mentioned before that I have become a NTB.
 
 We were told that TM was the fastest way to liberation.
 Where did this declaration come from?
 
 Who believes that the man who started this movement was actually a
 Maharishi?
 What did he do that would make him such?
 
 Much is written here that really amazes me and truly indicates the
 effects of the TM movement which we were told is from the Sankara
 Tradition. 
 Where did Sankara suggest anything that we were told by this
 apparently realized being? Not a satguru. 
 He himself said I am not a personal guru. 
 How could he be a satguru then? Guru Tattva is not this model.
 
 From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of scriptural
 foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those shastras.
 Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic mind and
 have no basis in what is Truth.
 
 Do people seek siddhis for power? 
 If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
 They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
 
 Ravana was well versed and in total command of Veda. He was a great
 devotee of Shiva and gained boons from Him.
 Yet Ravana was a demon. Wanting only more and more. Especially of what
 he could not have. It was his downfall.
 
 Maharishi Kapila who was Vishnu incarnate, and the one who gave us
 Sankhya Knowledge, when asked by His mother Devahuti about gaining
 liberation from this samsara, said:
 No other way by which yogis may attain the Brahma is more easy and
 auspicious that the way of devotion to the Exalted Lord, the Soul in
 all that is.
 Only by that steadfastness of mind which is gained by concentrating
 it on Me through intense and sustained dvotion can men in this world
 achieve Moksha.Srimad Bhagavatam Chapter 25.
 
 In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says the same thing...Only through devotion
 can one gain liberation.
 
 Adi Sankara, whose name is invoked as the TMO tradition of Holy
 Masters, says Bhaja Govindam Singing the names of the Lord
 (namasankirtana) is the fastest way and the easiest road. Devotion to
 Lord as Guru in Guru Ashtakam Many other works of His indicate
devotion.
 
 In verse 12 of Sri Guru Gita, Lord Shiva continues to tell Parvati
 Devi about false gurus...
 If one doesn't know the qualilty of Guru, all the ritualistic
 practices, prayers, penances are useless
  In the absence of knowledge of the quaility of Guru all other
 knowledges lead but to ignorance, so they are called the agents of
 illusion. Shiva says that those who are fond of them are petty minded.
 
 When was any of this taught in the TMO?
 
 Kali yuga isn't the best climate for gaining liberation through
 meditation. Too much noise.
 
 Krita yuga...Meditation
 Treta yuga...Yagnas
 Dvapara yuga..Bhakti
 Kali yuga...Namsankirtana
 
 In the little I have read in this group, little is spoken of prayer.
 Little is heard of praising the Lord..Whatever name you wish to give.
 Much is said about what all of this is.
 Isn't most knowledge posted here referencing what was learned
through TMO?
 
 The effects of TMO manifest as much confusion, little Truth.
 
 One thing those who spew the negative towards other can count on...
 Your Karmic debt is one of bad tastes.
 
 Moving to Fairfield was the best of my life to that time.
 Leaving Fairfield was so freeing of the illusions we had been fed.
 I am Grateful to have cleared the bowels of that waste.
 
 
 I pray that those sincere seekers find their way.
 There is a Light.
 
 
 Harih Om Tat Sat

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[do.rflex]

 No other way by which yogis may attain the Brahma is more easy and
 auspicious that the way of devotion to the Exalted Lord, the Soul in
 all that is.
 Only by that steadfastness of mind which is gained by concentrating
 it on Me through intense and sustained dvotion can men in this world
 achieve Moksha.Srimad Bhagavatam Chapter 25.
 
 In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says the same thing...Only through 
 devotion can one gain liberation.
 
 Adi Sankara, whose name is invoked as the TMO tradition of Holy
 Masters, says Bhaja Govindam Singing the names of the Lord
 (namasankirtana) is the fastest way and the easiest road. Devotion 
 to Lord as Guru in Guru Ashtakam Many other works of His indicate
 devotion.

 When was any of this taught in the TMO?



I began TM in 1968. Became an initator in Estes Park 1971. If it's any
consolation, I agree with almost all of your post - most particularly
the above.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 I have been lurking since the passing, from time to time as such
allows. 
 
 I used to live in FF for many years and involved with the TMO since
 1971. I had a great intitation experience and became a
 teacher/governor 1974-1976. Sidhi course. (no siddhis)
 Travelled in various capacities..World peace project, Phillipines,
 Rhode Island, Wash. D.C.. I know of some posting here.
 
 I mentioned before that I have become a NTB.
 
 We were told that TM was the fastest way to liberation.
 Where did this declaration come from?
 
 Who believes that the man who started this movement was actually a
 Maharishi?
 What did he do that would make him such?
 
 Much is written here that really amazes me and truly indicates the
 effects of the TM movement which we were told is from the Sankara
 Tradition. 
 Where did Sankara suggest anything that we were told by this
 apparently realized being? Not a satguru. 
 He himself said I am not a personal guru. 
 How could he be a satguru then? Guru Tattva is not this model.
 
 From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of scriptural
 foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those shastras.
 Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic mind and
 have no basis in what is Truth.
 
 Do people seek siddhis for power? 
 If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
 They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
 
 Ravana was well versed and in total command of Veda. He was a great
 devotee of Shiva and gained boons from Him.
 Yet Ravana was a demon. Wanting only more and more. Especially of what
 he could not have. It was his downfall.
 
 Maharishi Kapila who was Vishnu incarnate, and the one who gave us
 Sankhya Knowledge, when asked by His mother Devahuti about gaining
 liberation from this samsara, said:
 No other way by which yogis may attain the Brahma is more easy and
 auspicious that the way of devotion to the Exalted Lord, the Soul in
 all that is.
 Only by that steadfastness of mind which is gained by concentrating
 it on Me through intense and sustained dvotion can men in this world
 achieve Moksha.Srimad Bhagavatam Chapter 25.
 
 In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says the same thing...Only through devotion
 can one gain liberation.
 
 Adi Sankara, whose name is invoked as the TMO tradition of Holy
 Masters, says Bhaja Govindam Singing the names of the Lord
 (namasankirtana) is the fastest way and the easiest road. Devotion to
 Lord as Guru in Guru Ashtakam Many other works of His indicate
devotion.
 
 In verse 12 of Sri Guru Gita, Lord Shiva continues to tell Parvati
 Devi about false gurus...
 If one doesn't know the qualilty of Guru, all the ritualistic
 practices, prayers, penances are useless
  In the absence of knowledge of the quaility of Guru all other
 knowledges lead but to ignorance, so they are called the agents of
 illusion. Shiva says that those who are fond of them are petty minded.
 

 
 Kali yuga isn't the best climate for gaining liberation through
 meditation. Too much noise.
 
 Krita yuga...Meditation
 Treta yuga...Yagnas
 Dvapara yuga..Bhakti
 Kali yuga...Namsankirtana
 
 In the little I have read in this group, little is spoken of prayer.
 Little is heard of praising the Lord..Whatever name you wish to give.
 Much is said about what all of this is.
 Isn't most knowledge posted here referencing what was learned
through TMO?
 
 The effects of TMO manifest as much confusion, little Truth.
 
 One thing those who spew the negative towards other can count on...
 Your Karmic debt is one of bad tastes.
 
 Moving to Fairfield was the best of my life to that time.
 Leaving Fairfield was so freeing of the illusions we had been fed.
 I am Grateful to have cleared the bowels of that waste.
 
 
 I pray that those sincere seekers find their way.
 There is a Light.
 
 
 Harih Om Tat Sat

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[curtisdeltablues]

 One thing those who spew the negative towards other can count on...
 Your Karmic debt is one of bad tastes.

Uh oh.  Not this teaching again.  How come everyone knows all about
my karmic debt but my tax guy when I try to deduct for it?

 Leaving Fairfield was so freeing of the illusions we had been fed.
 I am Grateful to have cleared the bowels of that waste.

So leaving Fairfield was like taking a shit for you, but we are being
negative and doomed to the bad tastes? OK.
 
 I pray that those sincere seekers find their way.
 There is a Light.

Let me take a wild guess...you know what it is?  Am I right?  Did I
correctly guess that you now have the wonderful liberating knowledge
that was promised, but never delivered, in the movement?  And does it
include prayer perhaps?

 In the little I have read in this group, little is spoken of prayer.
 Little is heard of praising the Lord..Whatever name you wish to give.

Can I pick which one cuz I've always been a big fan of Poseidon's
work, did you see his kickass Tsunami?  All praise the great sea god!
No wait a minute, who is the gut who brings all the presents...is it
too late to switch?   Cool, I'm going with Santa now, all glorious
imaginary ass kissing to Santa Claus!

 When was any of this taught in the TMO?

After you left the room, it was a huge joke for us.  We took it a
little too far with you missing out on enlightenment and all so sorry
for that.

 Kali yuga isn't the best climate for gaining liberation through
 meditation. Too much noise.


See this is where being a checker really helps, you see noise is no
barrier to meditation.  When you hear a noise,just treat it like any
other thought.  Unless the noise sounds like circus music cuz then you
had better haul ass before the ice cream truck goes down the street. 
But after you get your ice cream, just come back to the mantra.

 Do people seek siddhis for power? 

I wouldn't mind being able to change my cable channels with my mind
when I can't find the remote...

 If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.

Oh my, then no.  I'll just find the remote, it's gotta be around here
somewhere.

 I pray that those sincere seekers find their way.
 There is a Light.

As they say: nothing fails like prayer, just ask anyone who ever went
down in a plane.
 
 
 Harih Om Tat Sat

Hey don't try those Kung Fu phrases in here we are all trained in
mixed martial arts including Shotokan one strike one kill Karate!




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 I have been lurking since the passing, from time to time as such
allows. 
 
 I used to live in FF for many years and involved with the TMO since
 1971. I had a great intitation experience and became a
 teacher/governor 1974-1976. Sidhi course. (no siddhis)
 Travelled in various capacities..World peace project, Phillipines,
 Rhode Island, Wash. D.C.. I know of some posting here.
 
 I mentioned before that I have become a NTB.
 
 We were told that TM was the fastest way to liberation.
 Where did this declaration come from?
 
 Who believes that the man who started this movement was actually a
 Maharishi?
 What did he do that would make him such?
 
 Much is written here that really amazes me and truly indicates the
 effects of the TM movement which we were told is from the Sankara
 Tradition. 
 Where did Sankara suggest anything that we were told by this
 apparently realized being? Not a satguru. 
 He himself said I am not a personal guru. 
 How could he be a satguru then? Guru Tattva is not this model.
 
 From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of scriptural
 foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those shastras.
 Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic mind and
 have no basis in what is Truth.
 
 Do people seek siddhis for power? 
 If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
 They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
 
 Ravana was well versed and in total command of Veda. He was a great
 devotee of Shiva and gained boons from Him.
 Yet Ravana was a demon. Wanting only more and more. Especially of what
 he could not have. It was his downfall.
 
 Maharishi Kapila who was Vishnu incarnate, and the one who gave us
 Sankhya Knowledge, when asked by His mother Devahuti about gaining
 liberation from this samsara, said:
 No other way by which yogis may attain the Brahma is more easy and
 auspicious that the way of devotion to the Exalted Lord, the Soul in
 all that is.
 Only by that steadfastness of mind which is gained by concentrating
 it on Me through intense and sustained dvotion can men in this world
 achieve Moksha.Srimad Bhagavatam Chapter 25.
 
 In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says the same thing...Only through devotion
 can one gain liberation.
 
 Adi Sankara, whose name is invoked as the TMO tradition of Holy
 Masters, says Bhaja Govindam Singing the names of the Lord
 (namasankirtana) is the fastest way and the easiest road. Devotion to
 Lord as Guru in Guru Ashtakam Many other works 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 I have been lurking since the passing, from time to time as such
allows. 
 
 I used to live in FF for many years and involved with the TMO since
 1971. I had a great intitation experience and became a
 teacher/governor 1974-1976. Sidhi course. (no siddhis)
 Travelled in various capacities..World peace project, Phillipines,
 Rhode Island, Wash. D.C.. I know of some posting here.
 
 I mentioned before that I have become a NTB.
 
 We were told that TM was the fastest way to liberation.
 Where did this declaration come from?
 
 Who believes that the man who started this movement was actually a
 Maharishi?
 What did he do that would make him such?
 
 Much is written here that really amazes me and truly indicates the
 effects of the TM movement which we were told is from the Sankara
 Tradition. 
 Where did Sankara suggest anything that we were told by this
 apparently realized being? Not a satguru. 
 He himself said I am not a personal guru. 
 How could he be a satguru then? Guru Tattva is not this model.
 
 From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of scriptural
 foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those shastras.
 Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic mind and
 have no basis in what is Truth.
 
 Do people seek siddhis for power? 
 If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
 They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
 
 Ravana was well versed and in total command of Veda. He was a great
 devotee of Shiva and gained boons from Him.
 Yet Ravana was a demon. Wanting only more and more. Especially of what
 he could not have. It was his downfall.
 
 Maharishi Kapila who was Vishnu incarnate, and the one who gave us
 Sankhya Knowledge, when asked by His mother Devahuti about gaining
 liberation from this samsara, said:
 No other way by which yogis may attain the Brahma is more easy and
 auspicious that the way of devotion to the Exalted Lord, the Soul in
 all that is.
 Only by that steadfastness of mind which is gained by concentrating
 it on Me through intense and sustained dvotion can men in this world
 achieve Moksha.Srimad Bhagavatam Chapter 25.
 
 In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says the same thing...Only through devotion
 can one gain liberation.
 
 Adi Sankara, whose name is invoked as the TMO tradition of Holy
 Masters, says Bhaja Govindam Singing the names of the Lord
 (namasankirtana) is the fastest way and the easiest road. Devotion to
 Lord as Guru in Guru Ashtakam Many other works of His indicate
devotion.
 
 In verse 12 of Sri Guru Gita, Lord Shiva continues to tell Parvati
 Devi about false gurus...
 If one doesn't know the qualilty of Guru, all the ritualistic
 practices, prayers, penances are useless
  In the absence of knowledge of the quaility of Guru all other
 knowledges lead but to ignorance, so they are called the agents of
 illusion. Shiva says that those who are fond of them are petty minded.
 
 When was any of this taught in the TMO?
 
 Kali yuga isn't the best climate for gaining liberation through
 meditation. Too much noise.
 
 Krita yuga...Meditation
 Treta yuga...Yagnas
 Dvapara yuga..Bhakti
 Kali yuga...Namsankirtana
 
 In the little I have read in this group, little is spoken of prayer.
 Little is heard of praising the Lord..Whatever name you wish to give.
 Much is said about what all of this is.
 Isn't most knowledge posted here referencing what was learned
through TMO?
 
 The effects of TMO manifest as much confusion, little Truth.
 
 One thing those who spew the negative towards other can count on...
 Your Karmic debt is one of bad tastes.
 
 Moving to Fairfield was the best of my life to that time.
 Leaving Fairfield was so freeing of the illusions we had been fed.
 I am Grateful to have cleared the bowels of that waste.
 
 
 I pray that those sincere seekers find their way.
 There is a Light.
 
 
 Harih Om Tat Sat

Looks to me like you simply traded one brand of ideational bondage for
another.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Larry]

OMG, not another used-to-be TMer who gave it up because he / she
couldn't handle a few obstacles.


f those shastras.
 Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic mind and
 have no basis in what is Truth.
 
 Do people seek siddhis for power? 
 If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
 They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
 
 Ravana was well versed and in total command of Veda. He was a great
 devotee of Shiva and gained boons from Him.
 Yet Ravana was a demon. Wanting only more and more. Especially of what
 he could not have. It was his downfall.
 
 Maharishi Kapila who was Vishnu incarnate, and the one who gave us
 Sankhya Knowledge, when asked by His mother Devahuti about gaining
 liberation from this samsara, said:
 No other way by which yogis may attain the Brahma is more easy and
 auspicious that the way of devotion to the Exalted Lord, the Soul in
 all that is.
 Only by that steadfastness of mind which is gained by concentrating
 it on Me through intense and sustained dvotion can men in this world
 achieve Moksha.Srimad Bhagavatam Chapter 25.
 
 In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says the same thing...Only through devotion
 can one gain liberation.
 
 Adi Sankara, whose name is invoked as the TMO tradition of Holy
 Masters, says Bhaja Govindam Singing the names of the Lord
 (namasankirtana) is the fastest way and the easiest road. Devotion to
 Lord as Guru in Guru Ashtakam Many other works of His indicate
devotion.
 
 In verse 12 of Sri Guru Gita, Lord Shiva continues to tell Parvati
 Devi about false gurus...
 If one doesn't know the qualilty of Guru, all the ritualistic
 practices, prayers, penances are useless
  In the absence of knowledge of the quaility of Guru all other
 knowledges lead but to ignorance, so they are called the agents of
 illusion. Shiva says that those who are fond of them are petty minded.
 
 When was any of this taught in the TMO?
 
 Kali yuga isn't the best climate for gaining liberation through
 meditation. Too much noise.
 
 Krita yuga...Meditation
 Treta yuga...Yagnas
 Dvapara yuga..Bhakti
 Kali yuga...Namsankirtana
 
 In the little I have read in this group, little is spoken of prayer.
 Little is heard of praising the Lord..Whatever name you wish to give.
 Much is said about what all of this is.
 Isn't most knowledge posted here referencing what was learned
through TMO?
 
 The effects of TMO manifest as much confusion, little Truth.
 
 One thing those who spew the negative towards other can count on...
 Your Karmic debt is one of bad tastes.
 
 Moving to Fairfield was the best of my life to that time.
 Leaving Fairfield was so freeing of the illusions we had been fed.
 I am Grateful to have cleared the bowels of that waste.
 
 
 I pray that those sincere seekers find their way.
 There is a Light.
 
 
 Harih Om Tat Sat

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Mr. Ed]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 If the TM mantras are the names of gods, then repeating the mantra is
 a form of bhakti, and as one gets more subtle, then the worshipping
 song is ever more powerful.


  So, that sounds fine. butwhy is there no mention of this 
to new TM inductees? I have no problem with Hinduism, just BE HONEST. 
I've heard my friends look completely stunned to find out their mantras 
were supposedly invoking Saraswati or Shiva... Why the dishonesty? Why 
not tell people that there's a mystical energy transferrence that 
happens during the initiation puja that enlivens the mantra? if 
that's what you believe. I know I've only ever tried to hide things 
that I was embarrassed about.
   So many groups try to keep their Deep Magic Top Secret because 
it seldom bears much scrutinyand the unindoctrinated mind tends to 
reject it as baloney.
   I would think honesty would be a good antidote for many of the 
reasons why a lot of the people who post here say they left the 
movement. I make a point of telling anyone who wants to know everything 
I know about meditation, the siddhi's, the ice formation and so 
onthe good and the questionable...What does that hurt?...it's only 
the people isolated from reality north of town who think these things 
are secret. EVERYbody knows.
I have no reason to not proliferate these things. I didn't sign 
anything. It feels good to be free to share whatever I think is 
necessary. I'm sorry for those who are afraid to. Is this wrong of me? 
Anybody's guess. But does this not seem like a healthy direction to go 
in if positive change is to happen for the meditator community? Think 
about it. The best way to deal with a corrupt administration of any 
kind. Is to ignore it. Anyway ...blah-blah-blahsorry fer 
rambling.
 

 
 
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 no_reply@ wrote:
 
  
  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Kirk]

 Looks to me like you simply traded one brand of ideational bondage for
 another.

-Bondage done properly is a way to encourage pleasure from another, 
generally by constricting their will and thus narrowing their options and 
thus soothing the cares of the mind away. Bondage is simultaneously sadistic 
and masochistic. However the balance of the two is the delicate art. Bondage 
thus extolls one to austerity and meanwhile teases with a very heightened 
sense of propriety, with crossing some boundaries very much a form of 
transcendentalism, with unity and heightened awareness the result.

Mental bondage I am guessing is quite similar. It can result in heightened 
awareness, pleasure, and so on and it only depends upon latent sadism and 
masochism for providing the necessary aesthetic balance for teasing the 
intellect to such fullness. Glory to intellectual bondage. May we all be so 
pleasurably bound and teased. I know I am. I am happily married.

I am certain that the history of most religions has something to do with 
bondage.  I think instantly of Cain, I mean Able being sacrificed (ask 
Islam).  Promethius. Jesus. A real bondage queen. Osirus. Didn't make out 
very well with the eight piece. Religions, nay Gods, are the very sources 
for bondage. Gotta love them.  Teasing deities. Very naughty. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Patrick Gillam]

netineti3, thanks for your post. I enjoyed the ripostes it elicited.


-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  Looks to me like you simply traded one brand of ideational bondage for
  another.
 
 -Bondage done properly is a way to encourage pleasure from another, 
 generally by constricting their will and thus narrowing their
options and 
 thus soothing the cares of the mind away. Bondage is simultaneously
sadistic 
 and masochistic. However the balance of the two is the delicate art.
Bondage 
 thus extolls one to austerity and meanwhile teases with a very
heightened 
 sense of propriety, with crossing some boundaries very much a form of 
 transcendentalism, with unity and heightened awareness the result.
 
 Mental bondage I am guessing is quite similar. It can result in
heightened 
 awareness, pleasure, and so on and it only depends upon latent
sadism and 
 masochism for providing the necessary aesthetic balance for teasing the 
 intellect to such fullness. Glory to intellectual bondage. May we
all be so 
 pleasurably bound and teased. I know I am. I am happily married.
 
 I am certain that the history of most religions has something to do
with 
 bondage.  I think instantly of Cain, I mean Able being sacrificed (ask 
 Islam).  Promethius. Jesus. A real bondage queen. Osirus. Didn't
make out 
 very well with the eight piece. Religions, nay Gods, are the very
sources 
 for bondage. Gotta love them.  Teasing deities. Very naughty.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[sticheau]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 I have been lurking since the passing, from time to time as such
allows. 
 
 I used to live in FF for many years and involved with the TMO since
 1971. I had a great intitation experience and became a
 teacher/governor 1974-1976. Sidhi course. (no siddhis)
 Travelled in various capacities..World peace project, Phillipines,
 Rhode Island, Wash. D.C.. I know of some posting here.
 
 I mentioned before that I have become a NTB.
 
 We were told that TM was the fastest way to liberation.
 Where did this declaration come from?
 
 Who believes that the man who started this movement was actually a
 Maharishi?
 What did he do that would make him such?
 
 Much is written here that really amazes me and truly indicates the
 effects of the TM movement which we were told is from the Sankara
 Tradition. 
 Where did Sankara suggest anything that we were told by this
 apparently realized being? Not a satguru. 
 He himself said I am not a personal guru. 
 How could he be a satguru then? Guru Tattva is not this model.
 
 From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of scriptural
 foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those shastras.
 Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic mind and
 have no basis in what is Truth.
 
 Do people seek siddhis for power? 
 If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
 They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
 
 Ravana was well versed and in total command of Veda. He was a great
 devotee of Shiva and gained boons from Him.
 Yet Ravana was a demon. Wanting only more and more. Especially of what
 he could not have. It was his downfall.
 
 Maharishi Kapila who was Vishnu incarnate, and the one who gave us
 Sankhya Knowledge, when asked by His mother Devahuti about gaining
 liberation from this samsara, said:
 No other way by which yogis may attain the Brahma is more easy and
 auspicious that the way of devotion to the Exalted Lord, the Soul in
 all that is.
 Only by that steadfastness of mind which is gained by concentrating
 it on Me through intense and sustained dvotion can men in this world
 achieve Moksha.Srimad Bhagavatam Chapter 25.
 
 In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says the same thing...Only through devotion
 can one gain liberation.
 
 Adi Sankara, whose name is invoked as the TMO tradition of Holy
 Masters, says Bhaja Govindam Singing the names of the Lord
 (namasankirtana) is the fastest way and the easiest road. Devotion to
 Lord as Guru in Guru Ashtakam Many other works of His indicate
devotion.
 
 In verse 12 of Sri Guru Gita, Lord Shiva continues to tell Parvati
 Devi about false gurus...
 If one doesn't know the qualilty of Guru, all the ritualistic
 practices, prayers, penances are useless
  In the absence of knowledge of the quaility of Guru all other
 knowledges lead but to ignorance, so they are called the agents of
 illusion. Shiva says that those who are fond of them are petty minded.
 
 When was any of this taught in the TMO?
 
 Kali yuga isn't the best climate for gaining liberation through
 meditation. Too much noise.
 
 Krita yuga...Meditation
 Treta yuga...Yagnas
 Dvapara yuga..Bhakti
 Kali yuga...Namsankirtana
 
 In the little I have read in this group, little is spoken of prayer.
 Little is heard of praising the Lord..Whatever name you wish to give.
 Much is said about what all of this is.
 Isn't most knowledge posted here referencing what was learned
through TMO?
 
 The effects of TMO manifest as much confusion, little Truth.
 
 One thing those who spew the negative towards other can count on...
 Your Karmic debt is one of bad tastes.
 
 Moving to Fairfield was the best of my life to that time.
 Leaving Fairfield was so freeing of the illusions we had been fed.
 I am Grateful to have cleared the bowels of that waste.
 
 
 I pray that those sincere seekers find their way.
 There is a Light.
 
 
 Harih Om Tat Sat



Dude, you need an Advanced Technique ($3,000)!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:
 
  From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of scriptural
  foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those shastras.
  Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic mind 
and
  have no basis in what is Truth.
 
  Do people seek siddhis for power?
  If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
  They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
 
 Exactly--and this is also an almost unanimous declaration from 
yogic  
 texts. In fact, the primary text on Enlightenment up to this very 
day  
 in the Shank. tradition says this as well--which it also adds that 
one  
 will never attain even CC if one uses the samyama siddhi 
formulae,  
 esp. yogic flying! So clearly this has no basis in the tradition 
of  
 enlightenment coming from Shankara.

That's really weird, *if* Vyaasa, the famous commentator
of Yoga-suutras is Krishna Dvaipaayana aka Baadaraayana,
the writer of vedaanta-suutras (aka brahma-suutras, shaariiraka-
suutras.)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Vaj]

On Feb 19, 2008, at 6:12 PM, cardemaister wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:

  From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of scriptural
  foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those shastras.
  Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic mind
and
  have no basis in what is Truth.
 
  Do people seek siddhis for power?
  If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
  They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.

 Exactly--and this is also an almost unanimous declaration from
yogic
 texts. In fact, the primary text on Enlightenment up to this very
day
 in the Shank. tradition says this as well--which it also adds that
one
 will never attain even CC if one uses the samyama siddhi
formulae,
 esp. yogic flying! So clearly this has no basis in the tradition
of
 enlightenment coming from Shankara.

That's really weird, *if* Vyaasa, the famous commentator
of Yoga-suutras is Krishna Dvaipaayana aka Baadaraayana,
the writer of vedaanta-suutras (aka brahma-suutras, shaariiraka-
suutras.)


Vyasa just means compiler, it does not necessarily refer to a  
singular historical person. There were at least 7 different Vyasas  
from what I was taught.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Kirk]

 I had a few of them, the last one was $300 and I thought that was
 outrageous.

 A real Guru would not ask a penny for such knowledge.


---Ah yes, there was this very famous mantra I desired to chant but as I 
like to have the lineage permission I called a guru in India on the phone 
and he told me the mantra repeating it several times and then we emailed and 
he made sure I had it right and explained it.  For free. I later gave him 
some small amount of puja money, and another time I mentioned to his 
secretary I lost my job and he gave the money back. Sri Vidya Guru 
Amritananda. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[netineti3]

 
  
  On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:
  
   From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of scriptural
   foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those shastras.
   Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic mind 
 and
   have no basis in what is Truth.
  
   Do people seek siddhis for power?
   If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
   They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
  
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:

  Exactly--and this is also an almost unanimous declaration from 
 yogic  
  texts. In fact, the primary text on Enlightenment up to this very 
 day  
  in the Shank. tradition says this as well--which it also adds that 
 one  
  will never attain even CC if one uses the samyama siddhi 
 formulae,  
  esp. yogic flying! So clearly this has no basis in the tradition 
 of  
  enlightenment coming from Shankara.
 
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 That's really weird, *if* Vyaasa, the famous commentator
 of Yoga-suutras is Krishna Dvaipaayana aka Baadaraayana,
 the writer of vedaanta-suutras (aka brahma-suutras, shaariiraka-
 suutras.)


As well as the Mahabharata, Srimad Bhagavatam,18 puranas, and more..

IF I'm not mistaken, chiranjivi Vyasa as Vishnu has taken about 27
incarnations in the various kalpas. Each with a different name
depending on the time. I can't remember which text I recently read
that He said this was His 27th Vyasa.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[sandiego108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Yet in Sri Vidya the sidhis are but the outer courtyard. 
   - Original Message - 
   From: Vaj 
   To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
   Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:38 PM
   Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Mostly lurking with a question
 
 
 
 
   On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:
 
 
 From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of scriptural
 foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those 
shastras.
 Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic 
mind and
 have no basis in what is Truth.
 
 Do people seek siddhis for power? 
 If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
 They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
 
 
   Exactly--and this is also an almost unanimous declaration from 
yogic texts. In fact, the primary text on Enlightenment up to this 
very day in the Shank. tradition says this as well--which it also 
adds that one will never attain even CC if one uses the samyama 
siddhi formulae, esp. yogic flying! So clearly this has no basis in 
the tradition of enlightenment coming from Shankara.
 
 
   Knowledge of Cosmic Consciousness (jiivanmuktiviveka)
 
 
   5. The Renunciation of the Knower
 
 
   5.1 The Path of the Paramahamsa Yogins
 
 
   5.1.4. The two terms (paramahamsa and yogin) are used 
together in order to exclude someone who is only a yogin and someone 
who is a paramahamsa. Someone who is only a yogin is a person who, 
because of his lack of the knowledge of truth, is attached to 
amazing feats of yogic power, such as knowing the past, present, and 
future, yogic flying, etc., and has made efforts toward this or that 
(siddhi) with the various samyama formulae.  Consequently he becomes 
separated from the highest aim of human existence, Cosmic 
Consciousness.


you are misintepreting this text. you comment first that one will 
never attain even CC if one uses the samyama siddhi formulae, when 
in fact the text you quote specifically states that Someone 
who...is *attached* [my emphasis] to amazing feats of yogic 
power,... he becomes separated from the highest aim of human 
existence, Cosmic Consciousness. 

so believe whatever you want but the operative expression has to do 
with attachment to the results of the siddhis, and not just their 
practice.
  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[Kirk]

What is passing and where is the through?
Only repetition of the name of Devi is enough to produce samadhi. Even 
having considered it for the slightest of split seconds yet one already 
instantaneously has attained samadhi. Repetition produces moksha.

- Original Message - 
From: netineti3 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 5:53 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question


 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Yet in Sri Vidya the sidhis are but the outer courtyard.
   - Original Message - 

 Trilokya Mohana Chakram, Yes..it attracts everyone in the universe.
 But we must pass through it and the others, each increasingly more
 beautiful in order to achieve Mother's Grace.

 Jai Sri Mata!



   From: Vaj
   To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:38 PM
   Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Mostly lurking with a question




   On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:


 From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of scriptural
 foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those shastras.
 Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic mind and
 have no basis in what is Truth.

 Do people seek siddhis for power?
 If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
 They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.


   Exactly--and this is also an almost unanimous declaration from
 yogic texts. In fact, the primary text on Enlightenment up to this
 very day in the Shank. tradition says this as well--which it also adds
 that one will never attain even CC if one uses the samyama siddhi
 formulae, esp. yogic flying! So clearly this has no basis in the
 tradition of enlightenment coming from Shankara.


   Knowledge of Cosmic Consciousness (jiivanmuktiviveka)


   5. The Renunciation of the Knower


   5.1 The Path of the Paramahamsa Yogins


   5.1.4. The two terms (paramahamsa and yogin) are used together
 in order to exclude someone who is only a yogin and someone who is a
 paramahamsa. Someone who is only a yogin is a person who, because of
 his lack of the knowledge of truth, is attached to amazing feats of
 yogic power, such as knowing the past, present, and future, yogic
 flying, etc., and has made efforts toward this or that (siddhi) with
 the various samyama formulae.  Consequently he becomes separated from
 the highest aim of human existence, Cosmic Consciousness.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[netineti3]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Yet in Sri Vidya the sidhis are but the outer courtyard. 
   - Original Message - 

Trilokya Mohana Chakram, Yes..it attracts everyone in the universe.
But we must pass through it and the others, each increasingly more
beautiful in order to achieve Mother's Grace.

Jai Sri Mata!



   From: Vaj 
   To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
   Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:38 PM
   Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Mostly lurking with a question
 
 
 
 
   On Feb 19, 2008, at 2:12 PM, netineti3 wrote:
 
 
 From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of scriptural
 foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those shastras.
 Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic mind and
 have no basis in what is Truth.
 
 Do people seek siddhis for power? 
 If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
 They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
 
 
   Exactly--and this is also an almost unanimous declaration from
yogic texts. In fact, the primary text on Enlightenment up to this
very day in the Shank. tradition says this as well--which it also adds
that one will never attain even CC if one uses the samyama siddhi
formulae, esp. yogic flying! So clearly this has no basis in the
tradition of enlightenment coming from Shankara.
 
 
   Knowledge of Cosmic Consciousness (jiivanmuktiviveka)
 
 
   5. The Renunciation of the Knower
 
 
   5.1 The Path of the Paramahamsa Yogins
 
 
   5.1.4. The two terms (paramahamsa and yogin) are used together
in order to exclude someone who is only a yogin and someone who is a
paramahamsa. Someone who is only a yogin is a person who, because of
his lack of the knowledge of truth, is attached to amazing feats of
yogic power, such as knowing the past, present, and future, yogic
flying, etc., and has made efforts toward this or that (siddhi) with
the various samyama formulae.  Consequently he becomes separated from
the highest aim of human existence, Cosmic Consciousness.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[amarnath]

Nice post netineti, mostly agree with the basics here.
I started TM 1972, TT 1972, AEGTC 1978.
Except for yearly WPA was not active; not close to TMO; 
took care of parents, worked some 
and attended nearby Yogananda's Self-Realization-Fellowship Church

hung in there with TM way too long,
until Ammachi saved me with a hug 12 years ago

anyone remember MMY's prayer when declaring Dawn of AofE
last part was asking the 
Divine Mother to come and do it all HerSelf

MMY should have had the clarity to know that She came,
and could have retired much earlier

to add to your post, at least two Shankaracharyas
and others have pointed out that 
MMY had strayed from Dharmic Truth by IGNORING:

1)yamas and niyamas
2)Patanjali's warnings about Siddhis
3)the main point in Vedanta, Yoga Vasishta and Shankara
that the EGO HAS TO GO
4)spiritual knowledge is given freely; 
it seems as soon as a price tag is associated with it, 
it becomes contaminated and corrupted in some way

om santi,
anatol

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 I have been lurking since the passing, from time to time as such
allows. 
 
 I used to live in FF for many years and involved with the TMO since
 1971. I had a great intitation experience and became a
 teacher/governor 1974-1976. Sidhi course. (no siddhis)
 Travelled in various capacities..World peace project, Phillipines,
 Rhode Island, Wash. D.C.. I know of some posting here.
 
 I mentioned before that I have become a NTB.
 
 We were told that TM was the fastest way to liberation.
 Where did this declaration come from?
 
 Who believes that the man who started this movement was actually a
 Maharishi?
 What did he do that would make him such?
 
 Much is written here that really amazes me and truly indicates the
 effects of the TM movement which we were told is from the Sankara
 Tradition. 
 Where did Sankara suggest anything that we were told by this
 apparently realized being? Not a satguru. 
 He himself said I am not a personal guru. 
 How could he be a satguru then? Guru Tattva is not this model.
 
 From my view, nothing we were told has any basis of scriptural
 foundation. Little is mentioned in this forum of those shastras.
 Most of the opinions given are just musings of the egoistic mind and
 have no basis in what is Truth.
 
 Do people seek siddhis for power? 
 If so, this is a quality of Asuras, demons.
 They don't bring enlightenment according to Patanjali.
 
 Ravana was well versed and in total command of Veda. He was a great
 devotee of Shiva and gained boons from Him.
 Yet Ravana was a demon. Wanting only more and more. Especially of what
 he could not have. It was his downfall.
 
 Maharishi Kapila who was Vishnu incarnate, and the one who gave us
 Sankhya Knowledge, when asked by His mother Devahuti about gaining
 liberation from this samsara, said:
 No other way by which yogis may attain the Brahma is more easy and
 auspicious that the way of devotion to the Exalted Lord, the Soul in
 all that is.
 Only by that steadfastness of mind which is gained by concentrating
 it on Me through intense and sustained dvotion can men in this world
 achieve Moksha.Srimad Bhagavatam Chapter 25.
 
 In Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says the same thing...Only through devotion
 can one gain liberation.
 
 Adi Sankara, whose name is invoked as the TMO tradition of Holy
 Masters, says Bhaja Govindam Singing the names of the Lord
 (namasankirtana) is the fastest way and the easiest road. Devotion to
 Lord as Guru in Guru Ashtakam Many other works of His indicate
devotion.
 
 In verse 12 of Sri Guru Gita, Lord Shiva continues to tell Parvati
 Devi about false gurus...
 If one doesn't know the qualilty of Guru, all the ritualistic
 practices, prayers, penances are useless
  In the absence of knowledge of the quaility of Guru all other
 knowledges lead but to ignorance, so they are called the agents of
 illusion. Shiva says that those who are fond of them are petty minded.
 
 When was any of this taught in the TMO?
 
 Kali yuga isn't the best climate for gaining liberation through
 meditation. Too much noise.
 
 Krita yuga...Meditation
 Treta yuga...Yagnas
 Dvapara yuga..Bhakti
 Kali yuga...Namsankirtana
 
 In the little I have read in this group, little is spoken of prayer.
 Little is heard of praising the Lord..Whatever name you wish to give.
 Much is said about what all of this is.
 Isn't most knowledge posted here referencing what was learned
through TMO?
 
 The effects of TMO manifest as much confusion, little Truth.
 
 One thing those who spew the negative towards other can count on...
 Your Karmic debt is one of bad tastes.
 
 Moving to Fairfield was the best of my life to that time.
 Leaving Fairfield was so freeing of the illusions we had been fed.
 I am Grateful to have cleared the bowels of that waste.
 
 
 I pray that those sincere seekers find their way.
 There is a Light.
 
 
 Harih Om Tat Sat

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mostly lurking with a question

[deepaconn]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, netineti3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


In verse 12 of Sri Guru Gita, Lord Shiva continues to tell Parvati
Devi about false gurus...

Just so you know...my spiritual lingo comes, probably, 90% from the TMO,
although I supplemented my words in this discussion with knowledge
gleaned from an old time Sidha Yoga friend (from Muktananda's time).
Recitation and study of the Guru Gita was a cornerstone of their
practices.

My understanding about Guru Gita is that it's addressing Guru on several
levels. At the beginning of the seeker's path, you've got the
in-the-body Guru you're(hopefully) relating to on a day-to-day basis.

If one doesn't know the qualilty of Guru, all the ritualistic
practices, prayers, penances are useless


At the end of the path, you've got  the ultimate level, the experience
of the Guru as Self/Brahman/the Absolute. Given that understanding, the
above quote makes perfect sense. If one does not know the Self, the
object of  veneration, then the rutuals are useless. I remember M saying
-- help me, here, if I'm wrong -- until one knows who the almighty is,
of what use is prayer? You can cry-out in prayer, but you will not know
who/what are you praying to?

The irony of all this is that by the time the seeker experiences that
Guru and Self are one, prayer falls away, because there is no one to
pray to...only oneness prevails.

In the absence of knowledge of the quaility of Guru all other
knowledges lead but to ignorance, so they are called the agents of
illusion. Shiva says that those who are fond of them are petty minded.

Again, if Guru and Self are not perceived as the same thing-- evolution
of consciousness is not yet complete -- then Capture the Fort applys.
Don't get distracted.

Thanks for bringing up some interesting points for discussion.

Cath