[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: ... America. If there is a market for the drugs, that means that the people who live in this medi- tating community DID NOT FIND WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR IN MEDITATION. * Vasistha's Yoga p.499 http://tinyurl.com/6xndt If the teaching falls on a qualified heart, it expands in that intelligence. It does not stay in the unqualified heart. Bob, Perhaps you should tell the folks who maintain http://www.tm.org that they should update their pages with this new information. Just to help out, I have placed a few of the quotes that need editing below, with the necessary changes in bold (or inside asterisks or both, depending on your email reader): *Almost* anyone can practice the technique success- fullymore than six million people have learned worldwide. If you can think a thought, *and are qualified*, you can practice the Transcendental Meditation technique. *** Anyone can learn TM, but TM is a seed (and, in fact, the TM mantras are bija, Sanskrit for seed, mantras) which needs receptive soil to grow in. This paradigm is given its classic expression by Jesus in his Parable of the Sower referenced below. After many lifetimes, people finally get fed up with the stupidity and nastiness of ignorant life and become receptive to wisdom (enough to withstand the stress of an ignorant environment which choke the word) -- when they are receptive enough, they get on the road to enlightenment and begin to live the bliss that is everyone's birthright. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Sower Behold, there went out a sower to sow: And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up. And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit. And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some a hundred. And he said unto them, He that has ears to hear, let him hear. The synoptics then relate: And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? The sower soweth the word. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, and the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
I just want to get this straight, Bob. In the rap below, you are saying that TM is *NOT* a universal technique that works for everyone, the way it says on the tm.org website, right? It only works for the elite, those who have ears to hear, right? Just checking... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: ... America. If there is a market for the drugs, that means that the people who live in this medi- tating community DID NOT FIND WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR IN MEDITATION. * Vasistha's Yoga p.499 http://tinyurl.com/6xndt If the teaching falls on a qualified heart, it expands in that intelligence. It does not stay in the unqualified heart. Bob, Perhaps you should tell the folks who maintain http://www.tm.org that they should update their pages with this new information. Just to help out, I have placed a few of the quotes that need editing below, with the necessary changes in bold (or inside asterisks or both, depending on your email reader): *Almost* anyone can practice the technique success- fullymore than six million people have learned worldwide. If you can think a thought, *and are qualified*, you can practice the Transcendental Meditation technique. *** Anyone can learn TM, but TM is a seed (and, in fact, the TM mantras are bija, Sanskrit for seed, mantras) which needs receptive soil to grow in. This paradigm is given its classic expression by Jesus in his Parable of the Sower referenced below. After many lifetimes, people finally get fed up with the stupidity and nastiness of ignorant life and become receptive to wisdom (enough to withstand the stress of an ignorant environment which choke the word) -- when they are receptive enough, they get on the road to enlightenment and begin to live the bliss that is everyone's birthright. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Sower Behold, there went out a sower to sow: And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up. And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit. And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some a hundred. And he said unto them, He that has ears to hear, let him hear. The synoptics then relate: And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? The sower soweth the word. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, and the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: I just want to get this straight, Bob. In the rap below, you are saying that TM is *NOT* a universal technique that works for everyone, the way it says on the tm.org website, right? It only works for the elite, those who have ears to hear, right? Just checking... Good, I'm glad Nabby arranged a checking session for ya... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: ... America. If there is a market for the drugs, that means that the people who live in this medi- tating community DID NOT FIND WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR IN MEDITATION. * Vasistha's Yoga p.499 http://tinyurl.com/6xndt If the teaching falls on a qualified heart, it expands in that intelligence. It does not stay in the unqualified heart. Bob, Perhaps you should tell the folks who maintain http://www.tm.org that they should update their pages with this new information. Just to help out, I have placed a few of the quotes that need editing below, with the necessary changes in bold (or inside asterisks or both, depending on your email reader): *Almost* anyone can practice the technique success- fullymore than six million people have learned worldwide. If you can think a thought, *and are qualified*, you can practice the Transcendental Meditation technique. *** Anyone can learn TM, but TM is a seed (and, in fact, the TM mantras are bija, Sanskrit for seed, mantras) which needs receptive soil to grow in. This paradigm is given its classic expression by Jesus in his Parable of the Sower referenced below. After many lifetimes, people finally get fed up with the stupidity and nastiness of ignorant life and become receptive to wisdom (enough to withstand the stress of an ignorant environment which choke the word) -- when they are receptive enough, they get on the road to enlightenment and begin to live the bliss that is everyone's birthright. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Sower Behold, there went out a sower to sow: And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up. And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit. And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some a hundred. And he said unto them, He that has ears to hear, let him hear. The synoptics then relate: And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? The sower soweth the word. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, and the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
... America. If there is a market for the drugs, that means that the people who live in this medi- tating community DID NOT FIND WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR IN MEDITATION. * Vasistha's Yoga p.499 http://tinyurl.com/6xndt If the teaching falls on a qualified heart, it expands in that intelligence. It does not stay in the unqualified heart.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_re...@... wrote: ... America. If there is a market for the drugs, that means that the people who live in this medi- tating community DID NOT FIND WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR IN MEDITATION. * Vasistha's Yoga p.499 http://tinyurl.com/6xndt If the teaching falls on a qualified heart, it expands in that intelligence. It does not stay in the unqualified heart. Bob, Perhaps you should tell the folks who maintain http://www.tm.org that they should update their pages with this new information. Just to help out, I have placed a few of the quotes that need editing below, with the necessary changes in bold (or inside asterisks or both, depending on your email reader): *Almost* anyone can practice the technique success- fullymore than six million people have learned worldwide. If you can think a thought, *and are qualified*, you can practice the Transcendental Meditation technique. And when you practice the technique regularly, twice a day, *if you are qualified* you'll gain a wide range of benefits for your mind, your body, your relationships, your community, and your world. Does It Work for Everyone? The Transcendental Meditation technique is easy and enjoyable, and it works for everyone, *as long as they are qualified*. People of all ages, educational back- grounds, cultures and religions in countries throughout the world practice the Transcendental Meditation technique and enjoy its wide range of personal benefits, *if they are qualified*. The Transcendental Meditation technique is an *almost* universal technique. It's taught the same way everywhere in the world by trained, fully qualified teachers *to people who may or may not be as qualified as they are*. Scientific research confirms that the same restful experience is gained by *qualified* people on all continents, and that the same valuable benefits are enjoyed around the world, *as long as they are qualified*. *Qualified* people of all ages can practice the Transcendental Meditation technique successfully. Even a 10-year-old child (*if qualified*) can do it. And research shows that the more years you meditate (*assuming you are qualified*) , the younger your body becomes, compared to others your same age that don't practice the technique (*whether they are qualified or not*). Once you learn the Transcendental Meditation technique, it's likely you'll begin to notice positive changes within the first few days or weeks, *but not certain because the teaching only works if you are qualified*. When you give your mind the experience of its own settled state of awareness and your body this profound level of rest twice a day, it doesn't take long to gain more energy and intelligence, creativity and joy, calmness and confidence in life. *As long as you are qualified, that is*.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
After Katrina a follower of the Dalai Lama who I merely knew from the net gave me twenty thousand dollars for helping us which we split with a family which had their whole house blown down to the slab so yes there are rich people who do reach out and help others. And poor people like me who just as easily gave away a big wad of cash. That man will never know the simple fun it was to cash the check for a moment when we had the bills and got to flap them, then into the bank and spent already. That man taught me alot. Unfortunately though he is not nor will ever be my friend, I was merely some dharmic recipient, some part of his moral code. After the cash I reached out to him for friendship and that freaked him out, so maybe not all helpful rich are entirely the common man either. But thanks always to him. What I said about him not being a friend is entirely wrong as he was a great friend at a real needfull time for me. Ironically, the ten thousand really bought me a Honda Civic 2006 which I have really loved alot. The irony being that later I met a Tibetan Buddhist lama who lives near me and I started driving him around places alot, so the Dharma money somehow is never lost. The woman I gave ten thousand bucks to bought the entire Tangyur and Kangyur and huge troves of sacred texts for her temple, in Mississippi, and her property has really excellent vibes. We, meditators out front on the lines. What we do. Seems some help can come What were we talking about again. If any of you live in Austin you should visit this Buddhist grounds just to meditate because it's beautiful. http://www.palri.org/ Not trying to convert ya. Just as I went to SRF to meditate right next door to Pac Pal WPEC. On a side note, Doug, ya seem to be behaving yourself again, what happened?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: snip Let it go. You're not going to win. Within ten years marijuana will be tolerated in every state. And then people will have a clear choice between the perceived benefits of meditating up or toking up. I think that's what you're afraid of -- that given the choice, they're going to make the wrong (from your perspective) choice. Nate Silver thinks it'll take a 60% supermajority in order to get it legalized and analyzing trends predicts that'll be in 2022 - so a little more than 10 yrs. http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/02/americans-growing-kinder-to-bud.html Interesting that polls show more support for legalizing pot than for republicans.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
Turq, your satiredar malfunctioning? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: ... America. If there is a market for the drugs, that means that the people who live in this medi- tating community DID NOT FIND WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR IN MEDITATION. Yeah, is a classic fall from Grace. Is a shame and a cancer in spiritual society. I feel sorry for them. First Are all the meetings for meditation attended? Do meditators avoid unbecoming behavior therein? And is the hour of meditation observed? Eighth.Is care taken to deal with offenders seasonably and impartially, and to endeavor to evince to those who will not be reclaimed, the spirit of meekness and love, before judgment is placed upon them? Gettin their meditations checked after they might air out for about 30 days possibly could work. Doug, There are so many assumptions in your few short sentences that I hardly know where to start. But I will, because I suspect that you don't know that they *are* assumptions, and that you have them. My suspicion is that you have had these assumptions for so long, as the result of social and religious condi- tioning, that you think that they are real, and not mind-constructs -- mere assumptions. First, you believe that using drugs is a fall from Grace, a shame and a cancer in spiritual society. What an elitist crock of shit. What real spiritual society would have such an ego-bound, inflated, non- humble view of itself as to consider its practitioners living in a state of Grace and those who choose another lifestyle a cancer? You got TAUGHT this, Doug. By Maharishi and by those he learned it from -- elitists and bigots the lot of them. They don't even acknowledge that many *within their own spiritual tradition* smoke hemp *as part of their spiritual tradition*. They probably look down on those sadhus as a cancer, too. And WHO got to determine that attending all the meetings for meditation was a good thing. If it were such a good thing, why would rules be needed to force people to attend? Wouldn't they just recognize it as the Grace it is and attend on their own? Similarly, WHO gets to decide what unbecoming behavior is? Do you? Does Maharishi? What is it that you think you are becoming when you practice this behavior and dictate it to others? What is it that you think you are becoming LESS of by practicing this becoming behavior? Is the hour of meditation observed? speaks for itself. Remember when someone here (I think it was one of the Brits) said that he'd never heard Maharishi tell people that not missing a meditation was more important than watching over a potential murderer? Well, this is where that murder came from. Someone felt that it was more important to observe the hour of meditation than be a res- ponsible human being. As for dealing with offenders seasonably and impartially, WHO gets to decide that they are offenders? WHO or WHAT are they offending? YOU? Are YOU so important that behavior you don't like becomes an offense? Or is it that Maharishi is the one offended? Or could it be God? If the last, might I just say that any God who would be offended by someone toking on a bong after creating a tsunami that kills tens of thousands of people needs a few bong hits of His own. Dude *really* needs to lighten up. As for endeavor to evince to those who will not be reclaimed, that's one of the most offensive things I've ever heard in my life. You postulate (or whatever you are quoting postulates) that if these people whose behavior you don't like don't stop doing it, that you might not be able to reclaim them. WHAT gives you the right to claim them in the first place? What makes being part of YOUR group any better than being part of their own group, and doing what feels right to them? And as for acting in the spirit of meekness and love, before judgment is placed upon them, that's the biggest load of horsecrap I've ever heard in my life. Meekness and love don't judge; they tolerate and accept, because they're meek and they DO love. They CAN love. Judgment comes from an inability to love, and a need to exclude the ones one is incapable of loving from society. Gettin their meditations checked after they might air out for about 30 days possibly could work. Straight out of the Maharishi One Size Fits All Formula For A Perfect Life. Just do what WE tell you and everything will be OK. WE know better than you. WE know how to check your meditation so that you are doing it properly. WE know better than you do how these drugs affect your system and *I* (Doug) know so much better than you do that I'm going to double Maharishi's air out time because *I* know better than he did, too. Doug, in all honesty, I think you have been toking on the
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
On Feb 28, 2009, at 1:45 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: ... America. If there is a market for the drugs, that means that the people who live in this medi- tating community DID NOT FIND WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR IN MEDITATION. Yeah, is a classic fall from Grace. Is a shame and a cancer in spiritual society. I feel sorry for them. First —Are all the meetings for meditation attended? Do meditators avoid unbecoming behavior therein? And is the hour of meditation observed? Eighth.—Is care taken to deal with offenders seasonably and impartially, and to endeavor to evince to those who will not be reclaimed, the spirit of meekness and love, before judgment is placed upon them? Yeah, let's try to reclaim them with the spirit of meekness and love before we toss their asses in prison for 10 years for the crime of possessing more than a gram of pot. Doug, if this is satire, you definitely have the gift. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan no_re...@... wrote: Turq, your satiredar malfunctioning? No, I consider it very possible that Doug is having us on. But I figured that if he is, he's doing it to troll for rants, and so therefore I should roll out a good rant in reply, as if the post were serious. Besides, I just felt like ranting. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: ... America. If there is a market for the drugs, that means that the people who live in this medi- tating community DID NOT FIND WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR IN MEDITATION. Yeah, is a classic fall from Grace. Is a shame and a cancer in spiritual society. I feel sorry for them. First Are all the meetings for meditation attended? Do meditators avoid unbecoming behavior therein? And is the hour of meditation observed? Eighth.Is care taken to deal with offenders seasonably and impartially, and to endeavor to evince to those who will not be reclaimed, the spirit of meekness and love, before judgment is placed upon them? Gettin their meditations checked after they might air out for about 30 days possibly could work. Doug, There are so many assumptions in your few short sentences that I hardly know where to start. But I will, because I suspect that you don't know that they *are* assumptions, and that you have them. My suspicion is that you have had these assumptions for so long, as the result of social and religious condi- tioning, that you think that they are real, and not mind-constructs -- mere assumptions. First, you believe that using drugs is a fall from Grace, a shame and a cancer in spiritual society. What an elitist crock of shit. What real spiritual society would have such an ego-bound, inflated, non- humble view of itself as to consider its practitioners living in a state of Grace and those who choose another lifestyle a cancer? You got TAUGHT this, Doug. By Maharishi and by those he learned it from -- elitists and bigots the lot of them. They don't even acknowledge that many *within their own spiritual tradition* smoke hemp *as part of their spiritual tradition*. They probably look down on those sadhus as a cancer, too. And WHO got to determine that attending all the meetings for meditation was a good thing. If it were such a good thing, why would rules be needed to force people to attend? Wouldn't they just recognize it as the Grace it is and attend on their own? Similarly, WHO gets to decide what unbecoming behavior is? Do you? Does Maharishi? What is it that you think you are becoming when you practice this behavior and dictate it to others? What is it that you think you are becoming LESS of by practicing this becoming behavior? Is the hour of meditation observed? speaks for itself. Remember when someone here (I think it was one of the Brits) said that he'd never heard Maharishi tell people that not missing a meditation was more important than watching over a potential murderer? Well, this is where that murder came from. Someone felt that it was more important to observe the hour of meditation than be a res- ponsible human being. As for dealing with offenders seasonably and impartially, WHO gets to decide that they are offenders? WHO or WHAT are they offending? YOU? Are YOU so important that behavior you don't like becomes an offense? Or is it that Maharishi is the one offended? Or could it be God? If the last, might I just say that any God who would be offended by someone toking on a bong after creating a tsunami that kills tens of thousands of people needs a few bong hits of His own. Dude *really* needs to lighten up. As for endeavor to evince to those who will not be reclaimed, that's one of the most offensive things I've ever heard in my life. You postulate (or whatever you are quoting postulates) that if these people whose behavior you don't like don't stop doing it, that you might not be able to reclaim them. WHAT gives you the right to claim them in the first place? What makes being part of YOUR group any better than being part of their own group, and doing what feels right to them? And as for acting in the spirit of meekness and love, before judgment is placed upon them, that's the biggest load of horsecrap I've ever heard in my life. Meekness and love don't judge; they tolerate and accept, because they're meek and they DO love. They CAN love. Judgment comes from an inability to love, and a need to exclude the ones one is incapable of loving from society. Gettin their meditations checked after they might air out for about 30 days possibly could work. Straight out of the Maharishi One Size Fits All Formula For A
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan no_reply@ wrote: Turq, your satiredar malfunctioning? No, I consider it very possible that Doug is having us on. But I figured that if he is, he's doing it to troll for rants, and so therefore I should roll out a good rant in reply, as if the post were serious. More likely Doug is trolling for chuckles. (BARRY: But so am I! Uh-huh.) This is the second time recently that Barry has gone ballistic over a fairly obvious send-up. Reminds me of the DHMO debacle on alt.m.t. At least that time he was able to bring himself to admit he'd been definitively snookered. Besides, I just felt like ranting. :-) When does he not?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
I've been the recipient of a rich person's stealth from afar. This person heard about my plight during one of my lowest financial moments in life. Cut a $1,000 check and gave it to a friend of mine and swore him to secrecy, and he wouldn't tell me who gave the money. So it does happen out there. These are the kind debts that one can only pay by passing it forward, yes? Edg Yeah, good example. That kind care is certainly within the meditating community here, too. There are some lot of good people here who live like thus: Fifth.Are the necessities of the poor, and the circumstances of those who may appear likely to require aid, inspected and relieved? Are they advised and assisted in such employments as they are capable of; and is due care taken to promote the school-education of their children? Seventh.Are Meditators careful to live within the bounds of their circumstances, and to avoid involving themselves in business beyond their ability to manage; or in hazardous or speculative trade? Are they just in their dealings, and punctual in complying with their contracts and engagements; and in paying their debts seasonably? And where any give reasonable grounds for fear in these respects, is due care extended to them? In the Fairfield meditating community these are very much part of the communal living. Some people are better at it than others but you definitely see a lot of it and it would be fair to say that it is of the meditating community. JGD, -Doug in FF Living richly. Edg, this i think is a fascinating story about the meditating community in FF. There are certainly folks here who have set their lives up to have enough resources to have the time for the serious spiritual practice that can be done here. This is very much an intentional community that way. Very utopian and very American at the same time that way. People have done this on their own terms in different ways on the scale socio-economics. often it is un-celebrated success in life this way. Part of the story is that there are (many) people who do actively intentionally scale their lives differently to pull it off to be here. Intention and a lot of self-control that way here. I know lots of people who live quite well here with that and some of those who are great communitarians too. having a lot of fun or pleasure in their spiritual life here here this way too. Is a great life to be had here that way and there are many people having a great time with life here that way. This is a back story to the backbone of how it has been done by many here. The quiet ones are different from some of the more celebrated wreckage of ones who have lived above themselves trying to buy their access to sit on the stage or up front. Yet, there are lots of really lit quiet ones sitting in the crowd that you'd never know of unless you ask. It has been this way all along. Look around and weigh who is around in the domes or in the many other active spiritual practice groups and you can see it. The successful ones at it, I see them and think and know of them as the 'quiet ones'. Living richly by any standard. A lot of intentional simple living and high thinking. This very much is in the community here. is very fun to see too. -Doug in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: I don't think I would be a very nice rich person either; unless, maybe I'd survive it if I went underground and wore old clothes and drove a beater and had only superficial relationships, but also had an ear to the ground for places where a splash of coin could do some measurable good. Stealth giving might be the formula to keep the ego in check, cuz once you're spotted on the poor's radar, they shift their POV about you, and there goes intimacy, trust, etc. And you will be praised consistently until your ego is a blimp. I've been the recipient of a rich person's stealth from afar. This person heard about my plight during one of my lowest financial moments in life. Cut a $1,000 check and gave it to a friend of mine and swore him to secrecy, and he wouldn't tell me who gave the money. So it does happen out there. These are the kind debts that one can only pay by passing it forward, yes? Edg om
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
Living richly. Edg, this i think is a fascinating story about the meditating community in FF. There are certainly folks here who have set their lives up to have enough resources to have the time for the serious spiritual practice that can be done here. This is very much an intentional community that way. Very utopian and very American at the same time that way. People have done this on their own terms in different ways on the scale socio-economics. often it is un-celebrated success in life this way. Part of the story is that there are (many) people who do actively intentionally scale their lives differently to pull it off to be here. Intention and a lot of self-control that way here. I know lots of people who live quite well here with that and some of those who are great communitarians too. having a lot of fun or pleasure in their spiritual life here here this way too. Is a great life to be had here that way and there are many people having a great time with life here that way. This is a back story to the backbone of how it has been done by many here. The quiet ones are different from some of the more celebrated wreckage of ones who have lived above themselves trying to buy their access to sit on the stage or up front. Yet, there are lots of really lit quiet ones sitting in the crowd that you'd never know of unless you ask. It has been this way all along. Look around and weigh who is around in the domes or in the many other active spiritual practice groups and you can see it. The successful ones at it, I see them and think and know of them as the 'quiet ones'. Living richly by any standard. A lot of intentional simple living and high thinking. This very much is in the community here. is very fun to see too. -Doug in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: I don't think I would be a very nice rich person either; unless, maybe I'd survive it if I went underground and wore old clothes and drove a beater and had only superficial relationships, but also had an ear to the ground for places where a splash of coin could do some measurable good. Stealth giving might be the formula to keep the ego in check, cuz once you're spotted on the poor's radar, they shift their POV about you, and there goes intimacy, trust, etc. And you will be praised consistently until your ego is a blimp. I've been the recipient of a rich person's stealth from afar. This person heard about my plight during one of my lowest financial moments in life. Cut a $1,000 check and gave it to a friend of mine and swore him to secrecy, and he wouldn't tell me who gave the money. So it does happen out there. These are the kind debts that one can only pay by passing it forward, yes? Edg
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Om, Turq this was one of the more interesting things you wrote that hit kind of close to Fairfield. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I think that this is *exactly* the kind of wake up call it's been needing for a long, long time. ... I think it would be just *great* if this scandal led back to participants in the growing operation who are well-respected first generation members of the TM community, not just the second- and third-generation offspring, reacting to their parents' hypocrisy. Well, you don't live here? What i hear out around in town when i ask is that a family more behind this is not netted now. meditating family, father and son at least. Partying with kids growing up here. An open refrigerator stocked with pot. Open door policy. Inter-generational partying. Cocaine when it comes through. Some old guys trading sex with pretty young things for drugs too. In to the biz of growing medicinal where it can be, selling the surplus. Money laundering. Been going in this direction for a decade or so. What might you think now if this was in your village? With your young kids or other kids growing up in the village? Would you be writing a little different tune if you were living here knowing something more of what is behind the news headline, like this? Just wondering what your civic standard is when the back- story actually goes this way? Whether is in the meditating community or otherwise. Well, let me start by saying that the meditating community you describe is a hypocritical farce. If what you are saying is true, OBVIOUSLY Fairfield is *no different* than any other small town in America. If there is a market for the drugs, that means that the people who live in this medi- tating community DID NOT FIND WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR IN MEDITATION. That applies to them whether they are young or old. If people were selling marijuana and using it this way, THAT IS THE FAULT OF THOSE WHO MADE IT ILLEGAL AND THUS MADE IT A THING THAT CAN BE PROFITED FROM. This could not have happened in the Netherlands. It could not have happened in Spain, or in any of the other places on the planet that have realized that the way to handle marijuana is to tolerate, control, and tax it. It happened because fucking Puritans decided to make it illegal, and to demonize those who liked to smoke it as not only lesser than they were, but criminals. So -- whether it be my community or yours -- I put the blame for this situation on the people WHO MADE SELLING MARIJUANA A PROFITABLE INDUSTRY. That's you. And all the people who think like you, if you think it should be made illegal and treated with Puritanical intolerance rather than tolerance. What you are describing is EXACTLY the same situation as, say, a person who was active in getting legal abortion banned complaining that the daughter of one of his neighbors died at the hands of a back-room illegal abortionist. The person who made abortion a crime is the guilty party in that case. The persons who made selling marijuana a crime rather than find a sensible way of dealing with it are responsible for the situation you described. And, as far as I can tell, you are one of those people. You asked me how I would react to your scenario. Well, this is how I react. The pot dealer(s) fulfilled a NEED, a NEED that was VERY present in your meditating com- munity, a NEED fueled by intolerant people like yourself, who made it impossible to buy grass in a controlled, safe situation. YOU made it necessary for these kids to go to someone who would take advantage of them. If you want to blame anyone for this situation, blame yourself. If you had handled it the sane and tolerant way that the Netherlands handled it, NONE of the things you described would ever have happened. Here, here... I guess the Reagan policy of 'Just Say No', hasn't exactly worked. Now the whole Republican Party just says no. The party of NO! I guess they are just a bunch of frustrated control freaks? R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: the Six figures ain't rich by today's standardsunless you mean SEVEN figures and he's worth millions. Just about anyone on the east or west coasts has a house worth $500,000, so a million goes fast. Edg My usual sloppy off the cuff typing. Yes, I meant seven figures as more than a million. But not multimillions.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
Comments intertwined below --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: I knew, say, 20 rich dudes ($10,000,000 net worth +) in FF well enough to say I had a rudimentary grasp of their personalities, and, 100% of them had been crammed into an uptight defensiveness because of the pressures, and most of them could immediately see if someone was approaching them for money and brush it aside quickly. Like, all my investments are set for the year, like that. Most of these guys were rude, abusive, haughty, and agog with entitlement that they felt their net-worth bought them -- pampered into it by the TMO, ya see? They, each of them, could, however, pretend to be nice and fool you every time, but watch the shift when they catch you looking at that lump in their back pocket. Rich man eye of the needle sort of thingie -- it just seems to come with riches that one's personality gets annealed by the challenges into a harder less forgiving taut humorless wary presentation. Marek and Turq discussed the transition from TMO elitist to human being -- seeing humanity as individuals like them -- instead of less evolved. I sense a similar sort of elitism in some posts (this may not be a good example and may not fall in this group -- it did however jog my thought) -- that the rich are different from us. Even using such a crude moniker as the rich (its often with a implied haughty and derogetory tone) is reflective of this elitism. Hemingway and F.Scott Fitzgerald had this same debate -- one saying you know the rich are different from us -- the other replying (like) yeah(!), they have more money than us. In my view, one doesn't close the loop on transforming elitism to humanitarianism until they also see people who (momentarily -- in the grand cycle of things) have more resources than ourselves. Anyone here want to sing the praises of those in FF who are rich and still somehow are nice folks? Behind the curtains of Oz, all those I knew could be seen acting without their typical masks, and they were as human as human can bethat is, susceptible to power-insanity. To me it's like the rich have all this power to solve problems but they are so beset by the immensity of the poverty all around them that they collapse into a POV of: Why bother to engage the masses since they can easily sap one of every penny and the world will still be unchanged? And the unrich don't? I think about big cities 200-300 years ago. Massive poverty and lack of education -- beyond the pale of what we consider poverty today, and I cringe at the inner sight of people in their fine carriages telling their inquisitive child -- don't fret about them -- they are not one of us -- just unwashed dregs of humanity -- nothing can be done for them -- they are not like us at all. Don't fret, don't even think about them. How could they be so callous, insensitive and cruel??!! Yet, in reality, most of us are essentially the same. Locking out great parts of humanity -- because thinking about them, mingling with them, doing stuff for them, would be inconvenient -- and so icky -- and hey it won't make a damn difference anyway (so let them rot is is implication). But its hard to impossible to know all others inner thoughts, hearts and plans. Some people, are engaged everyday -- volunteering, donating, etc. These are wonderful people. But that is not the exclusive set of compassionate people on the planet. Some have longer range plans (which may be inferior, or may ultimately be more effective -- one can't say in snap judgements). Some, rich and non-rich, may have plans that we are not aware of. Working each day to bring them to fruition -- without show, without celebration or glory. So one can't always see beneath the surface -- and making generalizations -- especially across entire elitist pegged classes of humanity (for example the rich) -- may be problematic.(I say elitist pegged because seeing others as rich and not one of us is part of the elitist trap.) They don't seem to respond to that story of the man on the beach throwing back living fish that had gotten stranded on the beach by a rogue wave, and some other guy says, Why bother, you can only toss but a few back and what do they matter when thousands are going to die despite your efforts? The man replied, It matters to this one! as he tossed another fish back to life. I don't think I would be a very nice rich person either; unless, maybe I'd survive it if I went underground and wore old clothes and drove a beater and had only superficial relationships, but also had an ear to the ground for places where a splash of coin could do some measurable good. Stealth giving might be the formula to keep the ego in check, cuz once you're spotted on the poor's radar, they shift their POV about you, and there goes intimacy, trust, etc. And you will be praised consistently until your ego is a blimp. I've been the recipient
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: Here, here... I guess the Reagan policy of 'Just Say No', hasn't exactly worked. Now the whole Republican Party just says no. The party of NO! I guess they are just a bunch of frustrated control freaks? R.G. its ironic, (some/many) republicans used to be about getting government out of our private lives, about shrinking gov't influence on limiting our choices, and about decentralizing decision making (out of washington). Current republicans have morphed into a elite religious statism characteristic in some degrees by despotic regimes. However, back to an adjacent post on elitism -- if one can't see republicans (old school or the new crazy kind) as fellow human beings like ourselves, then one is still blinded by elitist frameworks and sentiments. Oh I have been a beggar And shall be one again As a humble democrat and As a earnest republican One day I walk quite dour One day I walk on diamonds Today I walk in hours One day I shall be home I've sat hungry on street corners And in a carriage fine And cried out glad and cried out sad With every voice but mine One day I walk in helplessness One day I walk with power Today I walk in hours One day I shall be home I pity the poor immigrant I pity the rich sychophant I pity myself for pitying I aspire to lose all rants One day I walk in wisdom One day I walk in vacuums Today I walk in haughtiness I pray one day I shall come home
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
grate.swan wrote: . . . snip Even using such a crude moniker as the rich (its often with a implied haughty and derogetory tone) is reflective of this elitism. snip So one can't always see beneath the surface -- and making generalizations -- especially across entire elitist pegged classes of humanity (for example the rich) -- may be problematic. Thanks, Grate Swan. I needed a little of that, for I have had way too many rich bastards impact my life, and, yeah, probably I'm working from way too small a sampling of the population. Also, since I am who I am, the type of folks that I end up working with must necessarily be, at least temporarily, my birds of my feather. IOW, who must I be if I find myself getting instructed so personally about what money and power can do to a personality? Have to consider that in a Byron Katie kinda way, eh? So, I'll try not to use the phrase the rich with such rancor in the future, and yes, I've known at least a few rich people who were big hearted, gave generously, were not haughty, etc., and I've always thought of them as having heroically resisted the besmirching power of money. So, there it is plainly: I'm projecting on both the good and the bad richies. It's not about them, it's me again. I hate that. But, I guess I should love that foible of mine as much as I should love the cute little villainies of others. And, HEY, I should love my good parts a bit less, and gradually I'll get to the neutral state wherein I neither abhor the bad or relish the good. Again, thanks for the tap on my forehead. Edg
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: the Six figures ain't rich by today's standardsunless you mean SEVEN figures and he's worth millions. Just about anyone on the east or west coasts has a house worth $500,000, so a million goes fast. Edg My usual sloppy off the cuff typing. Yes, I meant seven figures as more than a million. But not multimillions. * Six figures, seven figures...eh, just chump change: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/realestate/01walk.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_re...@... wrote: snip Six figures, seven figures...eh, just chump change: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/realestate/01walk.html Just curiously, who gets the deposit when the buyer walks away from it, the real estate agent, or the seller? If it's the agent, wouldn't they be making more from that deposit than they would on their commission if they had sold the apartment at the original price?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: snip Six figures, seven figures...eh, just chump change: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/realestate/01walk.html Just curiously, who gets the deposit when the buyer walks away from it, the real estate agent, or the seller? If it's the agent, wouldn't they be making more from that deposit than they would on their commission if they had sold the apartment at the original price? It is held in escrow at the real estate company but the deposit goes to the seller in the case of breach of the contract. It pays the seller for the trouble of taking their property off the market and missing other buyers. In a sellers market deposits are higher. In a crappy market they are sometimes lower. In VA the Realtor doesn't get a commission if the deal doesn't go through unless they have a buyer's representation contract and want to sue if they did everything contracted but the buyer backs out. I have never seen it though.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
... America. If there is a market for the drugs, that means that the people who live in this medi- tating community DID NOT FIND WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR IN MEDITATION. Yeah, is a classic fall from Grace. Is a shame and a cancer in spiritual society. I feel sorry for them. First Are all the meetings for meditation attended? Do meditators avoid unbecoming behavior therein? And is the hour of meditation observed? Eighth.Is care taken to deal with offenders seasonably and impartially, and to endeavor to evince to those who will not be reclaimed, the spirit of meekness and love, before judgment is placed upon them? Gettin their meditations checked after they might air out for about 30 days possibly could work. JGD, -Doug
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: ... America. If there is a market for the drugs, that means that the people who live in this medi- tating community DID NOT FIND WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR IN MEDITATION. Yeah, is a classic fall from Grace. Is a shame and a cancer in spiritual society. I feel sorry for them. First Are all the meetings for meditation attended? Do meditators avoid unbecoming behavior therein? And is the hour of meditation observed? Eighth.Is care taken to deal with offenders seasonably and impartially, and to endeavor to evince to those who will not be reclaimed, the spirit of meekness and love, before judgment is placed upon them? Gettin their meditations checked after they might air out for about 30 days possibly could work. Doug, There are so many assumptions in your few short sentences that I hardly know where to start. But I will, because I suspect that you don't know that they *are* assumptions, and that you have them. My suspicion is that you have had these assumptions for so long, as the result of social and religious condi- tioning, that you think that they are real, and not mind-constructs -- mere assumptions. First, you believe that using drugs is a fall from Grace, a shame and a cancer in spiritual society. What an elitist crock of shit. What real spiritual society would have such an ego-bound, inflated, non- humble view of itself as to consider its practitioners living in a state of Grace and those who choose another lifestyle a cancer? You got TAUGHT this, Doug. By Maharishi and by those he learned it from -- elitists and bigots the lot of them. They don't even acknowledge that many *within their own spiritual tradition* smoke hemp *as part of their spiritual tradition*. They probably look down on those sadhus as a cancer, too. And WHO got to determine that attending all the meetings for meditation was a good thing. If it were such a good thing, why would rules be needed to force people to attend? Wouldn't they just recognize it as the Grace it is and attend on their own? Similarly, WHO gets to decide what unbecoming behavior is? Do you? Does Maharishi? What is it that you think you are becoming when you practice this behavior and dictate it to others? What is it that you think you are becoming LESS of by practicing this becoming behavior? Is the hour of meditation observed? speaks for itself. Remember when someone here (I think it was one of the Brits) said that he'd never heard Maharishi tell people that not missing a meditation was more important than watching over a potential murderer? Well, this is where that murder came from. Someone felt that it was more important to observe the hour of meditation than be a res- ponsible human being. As for dealing with offenders seasonably and impartially, WHO gets to decide that they are offenders? WHO or WHAT are they offending? YOU? Are YOU so important that behavior you don't like becomes an offense? Or is it that Maharishi is the one offended? Or could it be God? If the last, might I just say that any God who would be offended by someone toking on a bong after creating a tsunami that kills tens of thousands of people needs a few bong hits of His own. Dude *really* needs to lighten up. As for endeavor to evince to those who will not be reclaimed, that's one of the most offensive things I've ever heard in my life. You postulate (or whatever you are quoting postulates) that if these people whose behavior you don't like don't stop doing it, that you might not be able to reclaim them. WHAT gives you the right to claim them in the first place? What makes being part of YOUR group any better than being part of their own group, and doing what feels right to them? And as for acting in the spirit of meekness and love, before judgment is placed upon them, that's the biggest load of horsecrap I've ever heard in my life. Meekness and love don't judge; they tolerate and accept, because they're meek and they DO love. They CAN love. Judgment comes from an inability to love, and a need to exclude the ones one is incapable of loving from society. Gettin their meditations checked after they might air out for about 30 days possibly could work. Straight out of the Maharishi One Size Fits All Formula For A Perfect Life. Just do what WE tell you and everything will be OK. WE know better than you. WE know how to check your meditation so that you are doing it properly. WE know better than you do how these drugs affect your system and *I* (Doug) know so much better than you do that I'm going to double Maharishi's air out time because *I* know better than he did, too. Doug, in all honesty, I think you have been toking on the Maharishi Bong far too long. You make assump- tions about things that are not only unwarranted, they are far more offensive to thinking, feeling human beings than the behavior you find offensive. Your position (if it isn't parody)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: OK, Doug, I officially apologize for the personal nature of my two rants this morning. Dear Turq, apology accepted. With Best Regards, -Doug in FF ps i liked your rants too.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
Ten fold? snip Actually, research being done at Columbia University for the last 10 years shows that cannabis use (yes plain old marijuana) increases the likelihood of developing psychosis by ten fold. Even if it was two-fold, this is interesting to me. I was just dealing with this in some extended family member who is a pot-addict from way back. Was a nice smart funny person but now an extremely malevolent person . If you read the Marijuana Addicts Anonymous (MAA) links, this is not uncommon with long-term chronic pot use. Abuse becomes abusive abuser. There is a reality there it is not just benign. What is the research? Anybody have it to look at? Seems is very timely in many ways here and everywhere. With Best Regards from Fairfield, -Doug snip Actually, research being done at Columbia University for the last 10 years shows that cannabis use (yes plain old marijuana) increases the likelihood of developing psychosis by ten fold. The point is, it's effects on the brain are real and not necessarily helpful for certain people in certain situations where quick memory retrieval is necessary. Yes? And? Per my prior post -- some activities are not enhanced with cannabis. Don't do them. We are not talking using it 24/7 whereby the features of cnnabis are permanent. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Feb 25, 2009, at 5:49 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Pot has been used for thousands of years and has never been anything but a boon to any culture -- until Hearst et al. Actually, research being done at Columbia University for the last 10 years shows that cannabis use (yes plain old marijuana) increases the likelihood of developing psychosis by ten fold. You are joking right? Another satire? quote Down at the bottom of the CNN report (Marijuana may increase psychosis risk, analysis says ) on the Lancet published study that claims that frequent marijuana use may cause psychosis we find: Bingo: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/556097_6 I will allow Ruth and others who like delving into research to do so on this one, but it looks to me as if they started backwards and worked towards a foregone conclusion. In his books on meditation, Zen master and neurologist Jim Austin not only goes into the bodies endogenous drug producing systems, he also goes over the research on all the major recreational drugs as well. On marijuana he shares an interesting study of 311 grown twins, where one twin had used marijuana before 17, the other had not. The twin who HAD used marijuana before 17 was 2.1 to 5.2 times more likely to engage in other drug use, to develop alcohol dependence and to develop some drug dependence. It true, it would back the idea of marijuana being a gateway drug. (But clearly Austin is also of a previous generation, he was born in 1925, and he seems to abhor all drug use, even of botanicals.) Marijuana also decrease theta waves globally in the brain and disrupts both the transient attentional and the more sustained functions that the subjects require to solve working memory tasks. It's interesting that in Ayurveda, a botanical that causes excitation of the cerebral cortex is used as the antidote for marijuana. When pure THC is given to subjects it produces schizophrenia-like positive and negative symptoms, alters perception, leads to both anxiety and to euphoria, and disrupts both immediate and delayed word recall.27 Large doses of cannabis can also provoke an acute psychosis that resembles schizophrenia. Heavy users among young recruits in the Swedish army had a sixfold greater incidence of schizophrenia on follow-up. It would be interesting to see some studies on the botanical antidotes to some of these side-effects and also a cross- comparison of smoking/vaporization of marijuana vs. traditional preparations like bhang--marijuana drinks, usually in almond milk with some herbs and jaggery. These traditional drinks are said to curb a number of the traditional side effects. You can still purchase of number of Ayurvedic rasayanas and powders, which contain marijuana as key ingredients, in this country.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
On Feb 26, 2009, at 9:35 AM, dhamiltony2k5 wrote: Abuse becomes abusive abuser. There is a reality there it is not just benign. What is the research? Anybody have it to look at? Seems is very timely in many ways here and everywhere. There are several studies which claim to show marijuana increases susceptibility to psychosis or even (paranoid) schizophrenia. I believe what they're noticing is that some people tend to get really paranoid when they get stoned. Anyone who grew up in the 60's or 70's will already be familiar with this, as there was always someone who got really freaked out when stoned: the cops were following you, they were afraid if they forgot to breathe they'd die, people were watching them etc. Apparently if these type of people smoke long enough, they can develop problems--as opposed to the types that laugh their asses off, get totally into music or TV, make love like Casanova, enthrall at the minute details of nature or become very creative.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
Om, Turq this was one of the more interesting things you wrote that hit kind of close to Fairfield. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: I think that this is *exactly* the kind of wake up call it's been needing for a long, long time. ... I think it would be just *great* if this scandal led back to participants in the growing operation who are well-respected first generation members of the TM community, not just the second- and third-generation offspring, reacting to their parents' hypocrisy. Well, you don't live here? What i hear out around in town when i ask is that a family more behind this is not netted now. meditating family, father and son at least. Partying with kids growing up here. An open refrigerator stocked with pot. Open door policy. Inter-generational partying. Cocaine when it comes through. Some old guys trading sex with pretty young things for drugs too. In to the biz of growing medicinal where it can be, selling the surplus. Money laundering. Been going in this direction for a decade or so. What might you think now if this was in your village? With your young kids or other kids growing up in the village? Would you be writing a little different tune if you were living here knowing something more of what is behind the news headline, like this? Just wondering what your civic standard is when the back-story actually goes this way?Whether is in the meditating community or otherwise.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: Om, Turq this was one of the more interesting things you wrote that hit kind of close to Fairfield. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I think that this is *exactly* the kind of wake up call it's been needing for a long, long time. ... I think it would be just *great* if this scandal led back to participants in the growing operation who are well-respected first generation members of the TM community, not just the second- and third-generation offspring, reacting to their parents' hypocrisy. Well, you don't live here? What i hear out around in town when i ask is that a family more behind this is not netted now. meditating family, father and son at least. Partying with kids growing up here. An open refrigerator stocked with pot. Open door policy. Inter-generational partying. Cocaine when it comes through. Some old guys trading sex with pretty young things for drugs too. In to the biz of growing medicinal where it can be, selling the surplus. Money laundering. Been going in this direction for a decade or so. What might you think now if this was in your village? With your young kids or other kids growing up in the village? Would you be writing a little different tune if you were living here knowing something more of what is behind the news headline, like this? Just wondering what your civic standard is when the back- story actually goes this way? Whether is in the meditating community or otherwise. Well, let me start by saying that the meditating community you describe is a hypocritical farce. If what you are saying is true, OBVIOUSLY Fairfield is *no different* than any other small town in America. If there is a market for the drugs, that means that the people who live in this medi- tating community DID NOT FIND WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR IN MEDITATION. That applies to them whether they are young or old. If people were selling marijuana and using it this way, THAT IS THE FAULT OF THOSE WHO MADE IT ILLEGAL AND THUS MADE IT A THING THAT CAN BE PROFITED FROM. This could not have happened in the Netherlands. It could not have happened in Spain, or in any of the other places on the planet that have realized that the way to handle marijuana is to tolerate, control, and tax it. It happened because fucking Puritans decided to make it illegal, and to demonize those who liked to smoke it as not only lesser than they were, but criminals. So -- whether it be my community or yours -- I put the blame for this situation on the people WHO MADE SELLING MARIJUANA A PROFITABLE INDUSTRY. That's you. And all the people who think like you, if you think it should be made illegal and treated with Puritanical intolerance rather than tolerance. What you are describing is EXACTLY the same situation as, say, a person who was active in getting legal abortion banned complaining that the daughter of one of his neighbors died at the hands of a back-room illegal abortionist. The person who made abortion a crime is the guilty party in that case. The persons who made selling marijuana a crime rather than find a sensible way of dealing with it are responsible for the situation you described. And, as far as I can tell, you are one of those people. You asked me how I would react to your scenario. Well, this is how I react. The pot dealer(s) fulfilled a NEED, a NEED that was VERY present in your meditating com- munity, a NEED fueled by intolerant people like yourself, who made it impossible to buy grass in a controlled, safe situation. YOU made it necessary for these kids to go to someone who would take advantage of them. If you want to blame anyone for this situation, blame yourself. If you had handled it the sane and tolerant way that the Netherlands handled it, NONE of the things you described would ever have happened.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: Yep, of COURSE you're hip to the Trappist brew! Lately I've been really getting into some of the fine India Pale Ales that are produced right here in the USA. Ever try Ruination IPA brewed by Stone in CA? Beautiful stuff that you just hold in your mouth and savor. Damn Curtis. One of these dayswe gotta hang out and do some serious listening, dining and tasten'! Yeah, long overdue Geezer. Do you have SKYPE? It is a free video conference program and I've been using it to jam with other musicians over the Internet. We might be able to hoist one this way before either of us gets to the opposite coast! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: . You can experience some real social peak experiences that celebration cakes do not provide. (Invincibility to Uruguay...) Quote of the day. Great points Curtis! BTW, ever delighted in the sent-from-heaven complexity of a Belgium Trappist Monk ale like Chimay or Westmalle? It really is damn near a religious experience! Oh yeah. complex and satisfying like liquid bread! And with Hops as a cousin to cannabis who knows which part the magic brew gives it the magic! I favor domestic versions for the freshness but I'm a micro brew man. Yep, of COURSE you're hip to the Trappist brew! Lately I've been really getting into some of the fine India Pale Ales that are produced right here in the USA. Ever try Ruination IPA brewed by Stone in CA? Beautiful stuff that you just hold in your mouth and savor. Damn Curtis. One of these dayswe gotta hang out and do some serious listening, dining and tasten'!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
Bob, how did you know that posted passage was quoting Lincoln? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Disgusting. This thread has devolved into where's the best Mexican food? I understand gallows humor, but I don't understand the caustic and haughty sniping at these poor kids who are now in a hell that cannot be imagined unless one has lived that reality too. These are our spiritual grandchildren -- they were raised in the FF village. This is not a time for whispered chuckles about these kids. Shame on anyone who's thinking these kids're going to get anything near to justice -- brevity cut No justice? Well, they'll proly get some due process of law. there is, even now, something of ill-omen, amongst us. I mean the increasing disregard for law which pervades the country; the growing disposition to substitute the wild and furious passions, in lieu of the sober judgment of Courts; and the worse than savage mobs, for the executive ministers of justice. This disposition is awfully fearful in any community; and that it now exists in ours, though grating to our feelings to admit, it would be a violation of truth, and an insult to our intelligence, to deny. ** Say it, Abe! http://snipurl.com/cdqjz [books_google_com]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgil...@... wrote: Bob, how did you know that posted passage was quoting Lincoln? * Because Google has scanned so many books that you can enter a phrase into Google search and it frequently comes up on top of the searches. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: there is, even now, something of ill-omen, amongst us. I mean the increasing disregard for law which pervades the country; the growing disposition to substitute the wild and furious passions, in lieu of the sober judgment of Courts; and the worse than savage mobs, for the executive ministers of justice. This disposition is awfully fearful in any community; and that it now exists in ours, though grating to our feelings to admit, it would be a violation of truth, and an insult to our intelligence, to deny. ** Say it, Abe! http://snipurl.com/cdqjz [books_google_com]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: the Anyone here think they could live in FF for even a year and be a rich TB? How rich? I know one person who lives in FF in a trailer in Utopia Park and has at least a six figure net worth. He keeps his mouth shut.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: the Anyone here think they could live in FF for even a year and be a rich TB? How rich? I know one person who lives in FF in a trailer in Utopia Park and has at least a six figure net worth. He keeps his mouth shut. Six figures ain't rich by today's standardsunless you mean SEVEN figures and he's worth millions. Just about anyone on the east or west coasts has a house worth $500,000, so a million goes fast. Have you enough intimacy with him to ask what kinds of pressures individuals and the TMO put upon him for a handout? I knew, say, 20 rich dudes ($10,000,000 net worth +) in FF well enough to say I had a rudimentary grasp of their personalities, and, 100% of them had been crammed into an uptight defensiveness because of the pressures, and most of them could immediately see if someone was approaching them for money and brush it aside quickly. Like, all my investments are set for the year, like that. Most of these guys were rude, abusive, haughty, and agog with entitlement that they felt their net-worth bought them -- pampered into it by the TMO, ya see? They, each of them, could, however, pretend to be nice and fool you every time, but watch the shift when they catch you looking at that lump in their back pocket. Rich man eye of the needle sort of thingie -- it just seems to come with riches that one's personality gets annealed by the challenges into a harder less forgiving taut humorless wary presentation. Anyone here want to sing the praises of those in FF who are rich and still somehow are nice folks? Behind the curtains of Oz, all those I knew could be seen acting without their typical masks, and they were as human as human can bethat is, susceptible to power-insanity. To me it's like the rich have all this power to solve problems but they are so beset by the immensity of the poverty all around them that they collapse into a POV of: Why bother to engage the masses since they can easily sap one of every penny and the world will still be unchanged? They don't seem to respond to that story of the man on the beach throwing back living fish that had gotten stranded on the beach by a rogue wave, and some other guy says, Why bother, you can only toss but a few back and what do they matter when thousands are going to die despite your efforts? The man replied, It matters to this one! as he tossed another fish back to life. I don't think I would be a very nice rich person either; unless, maybe I'd survive it if I went underground and wore old clothes and drove a beater and had only superficial relationships, but also had an ear to the ground for places where a splash of coin could do some measurable good. Stealth giving might be the formula to keep the ego in check, cuz once you're spotted on the poor's radar, they shift their POV about you, and there goes intimacy, trust, etc. And you will be praised consistently until your ego is a blimp. I've been the recipient of a rich person's stealth from afar. This person heard about my plight during one of my lowest financial moments in life. Cut a $1,000 check and gave it to a friend of mine and swore him to secrecy, and he wouldn't tell me who gave the money. So it does happen out there. These are the kind debts that one can only pay by passing it forward, yes? Edg
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
Pot has been used for thousands of years and has never been anything but a boon to any culture -- until Hearst et al. Actually, research being done at Columbia University for the last 10 years shows that cannabis use (yes plain old marijuana) increases the likelihood of developing psychosis by ten fold. You are joking right? Another satire? quote Down at the bottom of the CNN report (Marijuana may increase psychosis risk, analysis says ) on the Lancet published study that claims that frequent marijuana use may cause psychosis we find: Bingo: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/556097_6 I will allow Ruth and others who like delving into research to do so on this one, but it looks to me as if they started backwards and worked towards a foregone conclusion. That is, according to the first paragraph of the article, researchers noticed that people with schizophrenia had a higher usage of cannabis. So it appears to me that they overlooked the rather *obvious* conclusion -- that the schizophrenia predated the cannabis use, and that schizophrenics were trying to self-medicate using cannabis -- and went instead for the answer they had already prepared. That is, that there was a causal link between cannabis use and schizophrenia. Here's what this article says about the Columbia University study. Note that they *started with* 33 patients who already had established symptoms of psychosis, and then worked backwards to try to establish the link to cannabis use. Sounds to me like starting with a bunch of diabetes patients and discovering that because diabetes makes you thirsty they all drink water. Therefore there is a causal link between drinking water and diabetes. :-) Note also what constitutes psychotic-like symptoms for these researchers -- suspiciousness and percep- tual disturbances. Given those criteria, Nabby and Judy are psychotic, because they are definitely suspicious of pretty much everyone and they talk about rather disturbing perceptions like believing in UFOs. One of them (Judy) has even admitted to having smoked marijuana in her youth, and the other (Nabby) probably toked up before that stick got lodged up his butt so far that he could no longer inhale. Their cannabis use was what made them psychotic -- clear as day. :-) Cheryl Corcoran, MD, Assistant Professor, Clinical Psychiatry, New York State Psychiatric Institute, Columbia University Center for Prevention and Evaluation (COPE) prodromal program, conducted a study to determine whether or not cannabis was associated temporally with psychotic-like symptoms (such as suspiciousness and perceptual disturbances) in a prospective cohort study of prodromal patients.[23] She presented data from 33 such participants, all of whom met criteria for the presence of attenuated positive symptoms; 8 also had a genetic risk by virtue of a family history of psychosis. Participants (27 males and 6 females) were aged 14 to 25 years (mean: 18.7 ± 3.7 years), and were assessed using a validated instrument for the assessment of prodromal symptoms, as well as a time-line follow-back method to assess days of substance use, in addition to a number of other measures. The researchers found that cannabis use was associated with perceptual disturbances among these prodromal patients, even when controlling for relevant covariates, such as alcohol use, medications, and life events. Similarly, cannabis use also was associated with anxiety and general psychosocial functioning.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
On Feb 25, 2009, at 5:49 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Pot has been used for thousands of years and has never been anything but a boon to any culture -- until Hearst et al. Actually, research being done at Columbia University for the last 10 years shows that cannabis use (yes plain old marijuana) increases the likelihood of developing psychosis by ten fold. You are joking right? Another satire? quote Down at the bottom of the CNN report (Marijuana may increase psychosis risk, analysis says ) on the Lancet published study that claims that frequent marijuana use may cause psychosis we find: Bingo: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/556097_6 I will allow Ruth and others who like delving into research to do so on this one, but it looks to me as if they started backwards and worked towards a foregone conclusion. In his books on meditation, Zen master and neurologist Jim Austin not only goes into the bodies endogenous drug producing systems, he also goes over the research on all the major recreational drugs as well. On marijuana he shares an interesting study of 311 grown twins, where one twin had used marijuana before 17, the other had not. The twin who HAD used marijuana before 17 was 2.1 to 5.2 times more likely to engage in other drug use, to develop alcohol dependence and to develop some drug dependence. It true, it would back the idea of marijuana being a gateway drug. (But clearly Austin is also of a previous generation, he was born in 1925, and he seems to abhor all drug use, even of botanicals.) Marijuana also decrease theta waves globally in the brain and disrupts both the transient attentional and the more sustained functions that the subjects require to solve working memory tasks. It's interesting that in Ayurveda, a botanical that causes excitation of the cerebral cortex is used as the antidote for marijuana. When pure THC is given to subjects it produces schizophrenia-like positive and negative symptoms, alters perception, leads to both anxiety and to euphoria, and disrupts both immediate and delayed word recall.27 Large doses of cannabis can also provoke an acute psychosis that resembles schizophrenia. Heavy users among young recruits in the Swedish army had a sixfold greater incidence of schizophrenia on follow-up. It would be interesting to see some studies on the botanical antidotes to some of these side-effects and also a cross-comparison of smoking/vaporization of marijuana vs. traditional preparations like bhang--marijuana drinks, usually in almond milk with some herbs and jaggery. These traditional drinks are said to curb a number of the traditional side effects. You can still purchase of number of Ayurvedic rasayanas and powders, which contain marijuana as key ingredients, in this country.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
Pot's not the problem it's fucking busy bodies who can't mind their own business that's the problem, and it's the harder drug pushers that's the problem. The fucking government is the problem and the thugs called cops are the problem. Pot is a god given cure for many ills of mind and body. It's a panacaea. It effects some badly. I know someone who went bye bye after one joint never to return. I can't live without it. After some meanb mother fuckers are shouting in your face for orders for hours on end and the ticket machine is screwed and the new waitress is fucking up her tickets and the boss decided to start a new menu that day and he yells in your face with hatred while he then jeopardizes the kitchen by stepping into the middle and pulling all the tickets off the board getting the cooking out of order. Then I have to take a break while my head is squirting sweat, even though it's a hot day outside the 100 degree breeze gives me chills. I need a been and ajoint or my head will crack in half. Just turn an eye mister. All you desk sitting happy people talk about making pot illegal well you guys can go to hell.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
On Feb 25, 2009, at 7:43 AM, Kirk wrote: Pot's not the problem it's fucking busy bodies who can't mind their own business that's the problem, and it's the harder drug pushers that's the problem. The fucking government is the problem and the thugs called cops are the problem. Pot is a god given cure for many ills of mind and body. It's a panacaea. It effects some badly. I know someone who went bye bye after one joint never to return. I can't live without it. After some meanb mother fuckers are shouting in your face for orders for hours on end and the ticket machine is screwed and the new waitress is fucking up her tickets and the boss decided to start a new menu that day and he yells in your face with hatred while he then jeopardizes the kitchen by stepping into the middle and pulling all the tickets off the board getting the cooking out of order. Then I have to take a break while my head is squirting sweat, even though it's a hot day outside the 100 degree breeze gives me chills. I need a been and ajoint or my head will crack in half. Just turn an eye mister. All you desk sitting happy people talk about making pot illegal well you guys can go to hell. What you should do Kirk is think ahead. It will eventually get legalized. So therefore start working a the first series of hooch energy drinks. Get a formula that tastes great and get a food scientist to develop a process for the product. Then when it becomes legal, everyone will be drinkin' Uncle Kirk's Voodoo drinks, straight from NOLA. The first and the finest. You could be the new Coke.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
Does Ms Loya fear children might get the idea one can smoke some dope and become, say, president of the United States, or the greatest swimmer of all time? Good article on how taxing pot could solve CA's budget problems, includes above quote http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/deadlineusa/2009/feb/24/california-marijuana-legalisation-legislation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Pot has been used for thousands of years and has never been anything but a boon to any culture -- until Hearst et al. Actually, research being done at Columbia University for the last 10 years shows that cannabis use (yes plain old marijuana) increases the likelihood of developing psychosis by ten fold. You are joking right? Another satire? quote Down at the bottom of the CNN report (Marijuana may increase psychosis risk, analysis says ) on the Lancet published study that claims that frequent marijuana use may cause psychosis we find: Two of the authors of the study were invited experts on the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs Cannabis Review in 2005. Several authors reported being paid to attend drug company-sponsored meetings related to marijuana, and one received consulting fees from companies that make antipsychotic medications. Thank goodness that the drug companies have those scientists on staff. As seems quite possible a scientist could make quite different conclusions from the study. CNN's nay sayer offers weak protest: Dr. Wilson Compton, a senior scientist at the National Institute on Drug Abuse in Washington, called the study persuasive. but Scientists cannot rule out that pre-existing conditions could have led to both marijuana use and later psychoses, he added. Actually, the Lancet report does offer to rule out pre-existing conditions but don't let that stop mainstream news from burying any protests against cooked science deeply under a mountain of neocon BS. Also, note the politically convenient timing of the report: In the U.K., the government will soon reconsider how marijuana should be classified in its hierarchy of drugs. In 2004, it was downgraded and penalties for possession were reduced. Many expect marijuana will be bumped up to a class B category, with offenses likely to lead to arrests or longer jail sentences. It has been shown that the War on Drugs has increased terrorism (especially in poor third world countries). It is still possible that marijuana is being used by psychotic people like medical marijuana is, as an actual palliative. This could be what the drug companies fear, a natural, growable, alternative to their expensive drugs. quote 2 Psychosis and Marijuana Use There is no proof that cannabis can cause a psychosis with people who don't have a history of psychotic behavior or a tendency for psychosis. It is a fact that only a small percentage of the estimated 300 000 people who smoke cannabis in Holland become psychotic. As far as we know it only concerns people who are consciously or unconsciously sensitive for psychosis. However, it is possible that cannabis can turn out badly with healthy people as well and cause anxiety or depression. Fortunately, these symptoms will not last and quickly disappear. There is no proof whatsoever that long-term and daily use of cannabis can cause a psychosis among healthy people, but the risk cannot be totally ignored. There are examples of people in India who - after years of daily use - started to show symptoms similar to psychosis, like hallucinations, delusions and total introversion. However, these are just descriptions of cases and are not scientifically proven. So cannabis is almost positively harmful to people who tend to psychosis. Therefore, in 1993 research was done at the Academic Medical Center in Amsterdam (AMC) among 93 psychotic patients. It showed that 61% of the patients who used cannabis during 15 months, more than once a day, fell back into a psychosis. Almost every user suffering from psychosis turned out to use cannabis at least a year before their first psychosis. According to the researcher it meant that the use of cannabis by vulnerable people could result in developing a psychosis. (Source: Don Linszen et al., Archives of General Psychiatry 1994). Further research to the use of cannabis by people with a tendency to psychosis shows that: * Relapse in a psychosis occurs more often among cannabis users than non-cannabis users. * Cannabis has a negative effect on the course of the psychosis. * Users of cannabis suffering from a psychosis become psychotic faster, more heavily and more sustained. * Users of cannabis with a tendency to psychosis become psychotic at a younger age than non-users. * Medication necessary for psychotic patients is
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Feb 25, 2009, at 5:49 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Pot has been used for thousands of years and has never been anything but a boon to any culture -- until Hearst et al. Actually, research being done at Columbia University for the last 10 years shows that cannabis use (yes plain old marijuana) increases the likelihood of developing psychosis by ten fold. You are joking right? Another satire? quote Down at the bottom of the CNN report (Marijuana may increase psychosis risk, analysis says ) on the Lancet published study that claims that frequent marijuana use may cause psychosis we find: Bingo: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/556097_6 I will allow Ruth and others who like delving into research to do so on this one, but it looks to me as if they started backwards and worked towards a foregone conclusion. In his books on meditation, Zen master and neurologist Jim Austin not only goes into the bodies endogenous drug producing systems, he also goes over the research on all the major recreational drugs as well. On marijuana he shares an interesting study of 311 grown twins, where one twin had used marijuana before 17, the other had not. The twin who HAD used marijuana before 17 was 2.1 to 5.2 times more likely to engage in other drug use, to develop alcohol dependence and to develop some drug dependence. It true, it would back the idea of marijuana being a gateway drug. (But clearly Austin is also of a previous generation, he was born in 1925, and he seems to abhor all drug use, even of botanicals.) Marijuana also decrease theta waves globally in the brain and disrupts both the transient attentional and the more sustained functions that the subjects require to solve working memory tasks. And the point is? The obvious seems to be being ignored in some of these posts. Cannabis produces an altered state. As does meditation (different ones). Some activities are enhanced by cannabis, others are diminished. As with all altered states. That's the point. The suspension (during the state, not after) of short-term memory is a BENEFIT of the altered state. It gets rid of the clutter in the mind, the monkey/rat response to everything, the chatter of the mind. In that state, different perceptions and thoughts, connections, insights arise. Sort of like when you sleep -- sleep is not dismissed as a dangerous state just because memory is impaired in sleep -- as is motor coordination. Don't drive while sleeping! Does that mean sleeping is bad in general? Meditation also reduces short term memory during that state. And it impairs motor coordination during that state. Should we ban meditation because it imparirs the ability to drive a car during the altered state? It's interesting that in Ayurveda, a botanical that causes excitation of the cerebral cortex is used as the antidote for marijuana. What botanical is that? When pure THC is given to subjects it produces schizophrenia-like positive and negative symptoms, alters perception, leads to both anxiety and to euphoria, and disrupts both immediate and delayed word recall.27 Large doses of cannabis can also provoke an acute psychosis that resembles schizophrenia. Heavy users among young recruits in the Swedish army had a sixfold greater incidence of schizophrenia on follow-up. It would be interesting to see some studies on the botanical antidotes to some of these side-effects and also a cross-comparison of smoking/vaporization of marijuana vs. traditional preparations like bhang--marijuana drinks, usually in almond milk with some herbs and jaggery. These traditional drinks are said to curb a number of the traditional side effects. You can still purchase of number of Ayurvedic rasayanas and powders, which contain marijuana as key ingredients, in this country.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
On Feb 25, 2009, at 10:30 AM, grate.swan wrote: In his books on meditation, Zen master and neurologist Jim Austin not only goes into the bodies endogenous drug producing systems, he also goes over the research on all the major recreational drugs as well. On marijuana he shares an interesting study of 311 grown twins, where one twin had used marijuana before 17, the other had not. The twin who HAD used marijuana before 17 was 2.1 to 5.2 times more likely to engage in other drug use, to develop alcohol dependence and to develop some drug dependence. It true, it would back the idea of marijuana being a gateway drug. (But clearly Austin is also of a previous generation, he was born in 1925, and he seems to abhor all drug use, even of botanicals.) Marijuana also decrease theta waves globally in the brain and disrupts both the transient attentional and the more sustained functions that the subjects require to solve working memory tasks. And the point is? The point is, it's effects on the brain are real and not necessarily helpful for certain people in certain situations where quick memory retrieval is necessary. And the gateway drug thing may not be a myth. Put it this way: I don't want to be the heart attack victim in an ER with the Doc who just returned from two weeks of constantly being stoned in Jamaica who can't remember what WTF to do next, nor do I want that guy as my pilot trying to land by plane in the Hudson river in a pinch. Nor do I necessarily want him working on my home or building my car. The obvious seems to be being ignored in some of these posts. Cannabis produces an altered state. As does meditation (different ones). Some activities are enhanced by cannabis, others are diminished. As with all altered states. That's the point. The suspension (during the state, not after) of short-term memory is a BENEFIT of the altered state. It gets rid of the clutter in the mind, the monkey/rat response to everything, the chatter of the mind. In that state, different perceptions and thoughts, connections, insights arise. Sort of like when you sleep -- sleep is not dismissed as a dangerous state just because memory is impaired in sleep -- as is motor coordination. Don't drive while sleeping! Does that mean sleeping is bad in general? Meditation also reduces short term memory during that state. And it impairs motor coordination during that state. Should we ban meditation because it imparirs the ability to drive a car during the altered state? It's interesting that in Ayurveda, a botanical that causes excitation of the cerebral cortex is used as the antidote for marijuana. What botanical is that? Calamus root.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
On Feb 25, 2009, at 4:49 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Here's what this article says about the Columbia University study. Note that they *started with* 33 patients who already had established symptoms of psychosis, and then worked backwards to try to establish the link to cannabis use. Sounds to me like starting with a bunch of diabetes patients and discovering that because diabetes makes you thirsty they all drink water. Therefore there is a causal link between drinking water and diabetes. :-) I was wondering about that too...the cannabis and psychosis link didn't sound credible. Note also what constitutes psychotic-like symptoms for these researchers -- suspiciousness and percep- tual disturbances. Given those criteria, Nabby and Judy are psychotic, because they are definitely suspicious of pretty much everyone and they talk about rather disturbing perceptions like believing in UFOs. And don't forget the little green men romping in cornfields in order to create works of art. One of them (Judy) has even admitted to having smoked marijuana in her youth, and the other (Nabby) probably toked up before that stick got lodged up his butt so far that he could no longer inhale. Their cannabis use was what made them psychotic -- clear as day. :-) Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Feb 25, 2009, at 10:30 AM, grate.swan wrote: In his books on meditation, Zen master and neurologist Jim Austin not only goes into the bodies endogenous drug producing systems, he also goes over the research on all the major recreational drugs as well. On marijuana he shares an interesting study of 311 grown twins, where one twin had used marijuana before 17, the other had not. The twin who HAD used marijuana before 17 was 2.1 to 5.2 times more likely to engage in other drug use, to develop alcohol dependence and to develop some drug dependence. It true, it would back the idea of marijuana being a gateway drug. (But clearly Austin is also of a previous generation, he was born in 1925, and he seems to abhor all drug use, even of botanicals.) Marijuana also decrease theta waves globally in the brain and disrupts both the transient attentional and the more sustained functions that the subjects require to solve working memory tasks. And the point is? The point is, it's effects on the brain are real and not necessarily helpful for certain people in certain situations where quick memory retrieval is necessary. Yes? And? Per my prior post -- some activities are not enhanced with cannabis. Don't do them. We are not talking using it 24/7 whereby the features of cnnabis are permanent. And the gateway drug thing may not be a myth. Put it this way: I don't want to be the heart attack victim in an ER with the Doc who just returned from two weeks of constantly being stoned in Jamaica who can't remember what WTF to do next, I hope you realized what a crap argument that is. Else I might wonder how meditation affects logical and rational areas of the brain. The effects on memory are DURING its use. nor do I want that guy as my pilot trying to land by plane in the Hudson river in a pinch. Nor do I necessarily want him working on my home or building my car. Crap squared. The obvious seems to be being ignored in some of these posts. Cannabis produces an altered state. As does meditation (different ones). Some activities are enhanced by cannabis, others are diminished. As with all altered states. That's the point. The suspension (during the state, not after) of short-term memory is a BENEFIT of the altered state. It gets rid of the clutter in the mind, the monkey/rat response to everything, the chatter of the mind. In that state, different perceptions and thoughts, connections, insights arise. Sort of like when you sleep -- sleep is not dismissed as a dangerous state just because memory is impaired in sleep -- as is motor coordination. Don't drive while sleeping! Does that mean sleeping is bad in general? Meditation also reduces short term memory during that state. And it impairs motor coordination during that state. Should we ban meditation because it imparirs the ability to drive a car during the altered state? It's interesting that in Ayurveda, a botanical that causes excitation of the cerebral cortex is used as the antidote for marijuana. What botanical is that? Calamus root.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: On Feb 25, 2009, at 4:49 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: snip Note also what constitutes psychotic-like symptoms for these researchers -- suspiciousness and percep- tual disturbances. Given those criteria, Nabby and Judy are psychotic, because they are definitely suspicious of pretty much everyone and they talk about rather disturbing perceptions like believing in UFOs. And don't forget the little green men romping in cornfields in order to create works of art. The little green men may apply to Nabby, but not to me, as Stupid Sal knows (unless she's smoking dope and her memory isn't working properly). *Everybody*, of course, believes in UFOs. Unless they're foolish enough to think that every single flying object can be conclusively identified. Well, maybe Sal thinks that...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
On Feb 25, 2009, at 11:10 AM, grate.swan wrote: The point is, it's effects on the brain are real and not necessarily helpful for certain people in certain situations where quick memory retrieval is necessary. Yes? And? Per my prior post -- some activities are not enhanced with cannabis. Don't do them. We are not talking using it 24/7 whereby the features of cnnabis are permanent. As per my previous post: In long term (or even relatively short term) use perfusion is diminished to areas of the frontal lobe, thus memory recall is impaired even when not using. If it only happened during use, it wouldn't be such a big deal. And the gateway drug thing may not be a myth. Put it this way: I don't want to be the heart attack victim in an ER with the Doc who just returned from two weeks of constantly being stoned in Jamaica who can't remember what WTF to do next, I hope you realized what a crap argument that is. Else I might wonder how meditation affects logical and rational areas of the brain. The effects on memory are DURING its use. See above. Demonstrated long ago in cerebral perfusion imaging studies. Think swiss cheese. Mmmm. nor do I want that guy as my pilot trying to land by plane in the Hudson river in a pinch. Nor do I necessarily want him working on my home or building my car. Crap squared. Uh huh, see the above.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: Pot has been used for thousands of years and has never been anything but a boon to any culture -- until Hearst et al. Actually, research being done at Columbia University for the last 10 years shows that cannabis use (yes plain old marijuana) increases the likelihood of developing psychosis by ten fold. You are joking right? Another satire? quote Down at the bottom of the CNN report (Marijuana may increase psychosis risk, analysis says ) on the Lancet published study that claims that frequent marijuana use may cause psychosis we find: Bingo: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/556097_6 I will allow Ruth and others who like delving into research to do so on this one, but it looks to me as if they started backwards and worked towards a foregone conclusion. That is, according to the first paragraph of the article, researchers noticed that people with schizophrenia had a higher usage of cannabis. So it appears to me that they overlooked the rather *obvious* conclusion -- that the schizophrenia predated the cannabis use, and that schizophrenics were trying to self-medicate using cannabis -- and went instead for the answer they had already prepared. That is, that there was a causal link between cannabis use and schizophrenia. Here's what this article says about the Columbia University study. Note that they *started with* 33 patients who already had established symptoms of psychosis, and then worked backwards to try to establish the link to cannabis use. Sounds to me like starting with a bunch of diabetes patients and discovering that because diabetes makes you thirsty they all drink water. Therefore there is a causal link between drinking water and diabetes. :-) Note also what constitutes psychotic-like symptoms for these researchers -- suspiciousness and percep- tual disturbances. Given those criteria, Nabby and Judy are psychotic, because they are definitely suspicious of pretty much everyone and they talk about rather disturbing perceptions like believing in UFOs. One of them (Judy) has even admitted to having smoked marijuana in her youth, and the other (Nabby) probably toked up before that stick got lodged up his butt so far that he could no longer inhale. Their cannabis use was what made them psychotic -- clear as day. :-) Cheryl Corcoran, MD, Assistant Professor, Clinical Psychiatry, New York State Psychiatric Institute, Columbia University Center for Prevention and Evaluation (COPE) prodromal program, conducted a study to determine whether or not cannabis was associated temporally with psychotic-like symptoms (such as suspiciousness and perceptual disturbances) in a prospective cohort study of prodromal patients.[23] She presented data from 33 such participants, all of whom met criteria for the presence of attenuated positive symptoms; 8 also had a genetic risk by virtue of a family history of psychosis. Participants (27 males and 6 females) were aged 14 to 25 years (mean: 18.7 ± 3.7 years), and were assessed using a validated instrument for the assessment of prodromal symptoms, as well as a time-line follow-back method to assess days of substance use, in addition to a number of other measures. The researchers found that cannabis use was associated with perceptual disturbances among these prodromal patients, even when controlling for relevant covariates, such as alcohol use, medications, and life events. Similarly, cannabis use also was associated with anxiety and general psychosocial functioning. Thanks for getting the details on this Barry. I have only my memory of the presentation at Columbia, and had not bothered to research the study itself - I heard several other presenters that day and got more involved in their info and workshops. At that conference I did speak to a few families and patients for whom this rang true. Very sad situation. So, sorry if I caused some upset here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
OK, Doug, I officially apologize for the personal nature of my two rants this morning. For all I know, given some of your other posts to this forum, you might be pulling our legs with these anti-marijuana rants, and doing satire in an attempt to push people's buttons. If so, you succeeded in pushing mine. I just don't tolerate rank ignorance and belief in dogma over fact well, and if what you've been trying to do is parody those things, you did it very well. But just the very IDEA of condemning the use of marijuana as being anti spiritual pushes my buttons. If there is anything on this planet that one should be anti, and that needs to be control- led by law or banned as dangerous, it's spirituality. Just *look* at the wars fought and the genocides perpetrated in the name of spirituality. Spiritual people strap bombs to themselves and blow themselves up in public places. Spiritual people burn others at the stake for not believing the same fairy tales that they believe. Spiritual people extort money from their followers by telling them that the world will blow itself up if they don't pay up. Spiritual people not only tolerate all of the excesses that you yourself have brought to our attention in Fairfield, they glorify them. If what you had in mind was satire, you pulled it off well. You got me up on my high horse. Congratulations. But if you're actually serious, I think you owe it to yourself to actually do some looking into these issues you seem so certain about while knowing none of the facts or scientific evidence surrounding them. And if you're actually serious, I think you might spend a little more time reading the parts of spirit- ual books that deal with tolerance than the parts that deal with following laws as if they were by definition good laws. The bottom line of all this is that dopers never started a war or created the Inquisition or murdered other people in the name of Christ or Krishna, and yer spiritual types did. The world DOES NOT NEED any more spirituality. Spirituality has brought it to the sorry state it's in today. There is no need for more saints or holy people, at least not the ones that most people could consider saints or holy. Give me the Church Of Willie Nelson any day over *ANY* of the world's other spiritual organizations. Mamas don't let your babies grow up to be spiritual...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
On Feb 24, 2009, at 3:14 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: You're being a bigot, Doug, and an ignorant one to boot. Let it go. You're not going to win. Science is going to win in the long run, and tolerance, and a growing perception that among ALL of the drugs that society uses to get through the day -- caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, and so many pills that over half of the adult population of the U.S. is on a regular prescription for some kind of antidepressant -- pot has the least bad side effects and causes the least amount of permanent damage. Not to mention that chocolate supposedly has more caffeine than coffee...something all the loonies ranting about how bad that is for you usually forget. Frankly, after this latest rant I just think Doug needs a long vacation. Ar first I really thought it was satire. And as satire, it would be great. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
No, he needs a fucking joint of some good KB. - Original Message - From: Sal Sunshine To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot On Feb 24, 2009, at 3:14 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: You're being a bigot, Doug, and an ignorant one to boot. Let it go. You're not going to win. Science is going to win in the long run, and tolerance, and a growing perception that among ALL of the drugs that society uses to get through the day -- caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, and so many pills that over half of the adult population of the U.S. is on a regular prescription for some kind of antidepressant -- pot has the least bad side effects and causes the least amount of permanent damage. Not to mention that chocolate supposedly has more caffeine than coffee...something all the loonies ranting about how bad that is for you usually forget. Frankly, after this latest rant I just think Doug needs a long vacation. Ar first I really thought it was satire. And as satire, it would be great. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: On Feb 24, 2009, at 3:14 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: You're being a bigot, Doug, and an ignorant one to boot. Let it go. You're not going to win. Science is going to win in the long run, and tolerance, and a growing perception that among ALL of the drugs that society uses to get through the day -- caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, and so many pills that over half of the adult population of the U.S. is on a regular prescription for some kind of antidepressant -- pot has the least bad side effects and causes the least amount of permanent damage. Not to mention that chocolate supposedly has more caffeine than coffee...something all the loonies ranting about how bad that is for you usually forget. Remember the old Sanka commercial: 99% caffeine free. What they failed to mention is that regular coffee is 98% caffeine free. Caffeine is a very powerful molecule; a little goes a long way. Modern water-decaffeinated coffee contains about half the caffeine than regular coffee, but still enough to boost your BP measurably. In a way, decaf coffee is like heroin light. Frankly, after this latest rant I just think Doug needs a long vacation. Ar first I really thought it was satire. And as satire, it would be great. Obviously, given the apology I posted earlier for getting my buttons pushed, the same thought occurred to me. I really *hope* that it's satire. Lest the Nabbys and the Jims and the Judys of the world pile on to my own- ing up to toking up when I'm in Amsterdam (even though I've said so many times before), I'm really not an over-doer on *anything*. I have at most one cup of coffee a day, in the morning, it takes me a week to go through a bottle of red wine at home, and I *never* have more than 3 drinks when out with my friends, even during Carnival. And I don't toke up here even though marijuana use is tolerated in Spain. I just can't take the holier than thou shit some supposedly spiritual people on this forum spout. I mean, we are talking about an organization that can legitimately be called a cult, one that *in the name of spirituality* has done illegal, immoral and *unthinkable* things to its own members. I don't know any long-term potheads who treat their supposed friends and colleagues that way. Among the people I know here or back in the U.S. who occasionally smoke a little reefer I can count three MDs, four nuclear scientists from the Sandia Labs at Los Alamos, a Zen Master of note who smokes up once a year religiously just to see what it's like and to shift his assemblage point from the same old same old, and dozens of practitioners of Eastern spirituality and the meditative arts. Not ONE of these people has ever treated his friends and neighbors the heartless and cruel ways that I regularly saw TMers treat each other in the TM movement. So if you're asking me which should be illegal -- pot or TM -- it's a pretty clear call for me. Some dopers get stupid and lazy. Some TMers get not only stupid and lazy but elitist and nasty and hypocritical about being those things. If marijuana is a gateway drug to lazy and stupid, give me that any day over what seems to be a gateway drug to being stupid, lazy, elitist, nasty, hypocritical, and devoid of compassion. Some TMers can obviously handle TM, and find a way to NOT turn stupid, lazy, elitist, nasty, hypocritical and devoid of compassion. There- fore I tolerate it. Some dopers -- such as the people I listed -- can obviously handle a toke now and then without showing any ill effects. Therefore I tolerate it, too. But I'm telling you...it takes a lot more work to be tolerant of TMers when they go on a righteousness bender than it does dopers when they have one hit too many.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
On Feb 24, 2009, at 10:00 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: So if you're asking me which should be illegal -- pot or TM -- it's a pretty clear call for me. Some dopers get stupid and lazy. Some TMers get not only stupid and lazy but elitist and nasty and hypocritical about being those things. If marijuana is a gateway drug to lazy and stupid, give me that any day over what seems to be a gateway drug to being stupid, lazy, elitist, nasty, hypocritical, and devoid of compassion. Some TMers can obviously handle TM, and find a way to NOT turn stupid, lazy, elitist, nasty, hypocritical and devoid of compassion. There- fore I tolerate it. Some dopers -- such as the people I listed -- can obviously handle a toke now and then without showing any ill effects. Therefore I tolerate it, too. I think many TMers would appreciate the buzz of good weed, as marijuana also induces EEG alpha waves--the same waves people get buzzed on with correct TM.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Feb 24, 2009, at 10:00 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: So if you're asking me which should be illegal -- pot or TM -- it's a pretty clear call for me. Some dopers get stupid and lazy. Some TMers get not only stupid and lazy but elitist and nasty and hypocritical about being those things. If marijuana is a gateway drug to lazy and stupid, give me that any day over what seems to be a gateway drug to being stupid, lazy, elitist, nasty, hypocritical, and devoid of compassion. Some TMers can obviously handle TM, and find a way to NOT turn stupid, lazy, elitist, nasty, hypocritical and devoid of compassion. There- fore I tolerate it. Some dopers -- such as the people I listed -- can obviously handle a toke now and then without showing any ill effects. Therefore I tolerate it, too. I think many TMers would appreciate the buzz of good weed, as marijuana also induces EEG alpha waves--the same waves people get buzzed on with correct TM. Funnily enough it was TM that stopped me smoking dope. I used to be a fairly heavy user but right after I learned TM I tried it once and disliked the way it interfered with my new found clarity of consciousness. Like a good boy I had also stopped smoking for the two weeks before teaching, as requested, and assumed afterwards that that was good advice considering how bad being stoned made me feel. I had always assumed it affected everyone like that because it really fogs things up, maybe these kids were right OTP or perhaps it was the low quality hashish we get over here. I should get myself to Amsterdam and do some proper research. You never know what you might be missing.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
On Feb 24, 2009, at 9:42 AM, boo_lives wrote: People I know who see auras all say that anti-depressants are about the worst drug to take, and no-one is in jail for taking and selling antidepressants, and anti-depressants are much more common among ffld sidhas than pot. I won't even bother to get into alchohol and the suffering that causes in society and in ffld. Well maybe your friends who see auras ought to go back to the loony bins they obviously escaped from, boo. Who the hell are they to pass judgements on medication which has helped millions? Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_li...@... wrote: People I know who see auras all say that anti-depressants are about the worst drug to take, Surely you must be joking -- or attempting satire as others are in this thread. Ask your psychic friends what the aura of a sustained deeply depressed person looks like. It must be deep black. And when they become quite functional, when the darkness goes away, when they feel like themselves again -- by increased sustained serotonin levels, your premise or sources say that the aura gets even darker than in deep depression???!!! Again, you must be joking. Ecstasy -- not recommending it casually -- but it also increases serotonin levels -- via different mechanisms. Users are bathed in love, good feeling, compassion and connectedness. Tell me, do your psychic friends feel these qualities produce darkness and blackness in the human aura? If so, maybe we/they need to recalibrate their ranking of aura colors. What ever color an aura is when a person is full of love and compassion -- thats a good color. I read TMO and other spiritual orgs/practices have touted the increased serotonin levels as a benefit of their practices. And that higher serotonin levels correlated with greater consciousness. (They said it, not me -- but I don't dispute it). So a substance that increases sustained serotonin levels in individuals is a bad bad thing? Again you must be joking. Have you considered the validity of your psychic friends and their abilities?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: Funnily enough it was TM that stopped me smoking dope. I used to be a fairly heavy user but right after I learned TM I tried it once and disliked the way it interfered with my new found clarity of consciousness. Like a good boy I had also stopped smoking for the two weeks before teaching, as requested, and assumed afterwards that that was good advice considering how bad being stoned made me feel. I had always assumed it affected everyone like that because it really fogs things up, maybe these kids were right OTP or perhaps it was the low quality hashish we get over here. I should get myself to Amsterdam and do some proper research. You never know what you might be missing. OK, I didn't mean to become an advocate for getting stoned or anything :-), but since it seems that I'm one of the few here who is willing to talk about these things openly, I will. I, too, dropped drugs during my whole TM period, and during most of the time since. But on my first trip to Amsterdam, I had a What the fuck moment and decided to see what the staid but efficient Dutch had managed to achieve in the cultivation of high-class weed. What I found surprised me -- in a pleasant way. I expected my clarity of mind to vanish and be replaced with what others here have called a fog. It did not. What I found was a *different* clarity of mind. The closest I can come to describing it is to use the phrase from Castaneda -- it was a shifting of my assemblage point. The nexus of energies that I associated with me *shifted* somewhat, and thus I was able to view things from a *different* perspective and point of view. And that was a very welcome and pleasant experience. I had been wearing the old perspective and point of view for SO LONG that it was a major epiphany to let it go and see things from a *radically* different POV. I found it a fascin- ating experience. And, just to put the spiritual spin on this that some say is lacking from pot experiences, this happened when I was in Amsterdam setting up a free public meditation talk for my spiritual teacher at the time, Rama. After all the prep- arations had been made for the talk, me and the guys who were there with me had a couple of days off, during which we could kick back and enjoy Amsterdam as tourists. The other guys, celibate for years and horny as a cowboy in a men's shower room :-), were drawn to the Red Light District, and its wares. I was not. I had a girlfriend back home, and was not tempted by the women in windows. What I *was* tempted by were the coffeehouses. But at the same time, I knew that in two days I would not only be seeing my spiritual teacher, but be sitting across the table from him at a few dinners. He did not recommend marijuana use. Would he be able to tell if I toked up? Would it fuck up my aura so much that he'd be able to tell, and tell me to take a hike from his teaching? So I did it anyway. I went to a good coffeehouse and sat and talked to the guy behind the bar for a while and got his advice on the different weeds and hashs they sold, and what their known effects were. Unlike a lot of the tourists, I was not looking for heavy and stoneful. I was looking for lightness and clarity and psychedelic qualities. He pointed me to the right blend. I had a delight- ful experience, one that I would call *profoundly* spiritual. I repeated the experiment using dif- ferent weeds over the next couple of days. And two days later I found myself sitting opposite Rama at the dinner table and he looked at me and said, This place agrees with you. I have not seen you this light and this happy and this spiritually charged up in years. Go figure. Anyway, boo_lives wrote some good stuff about dealing with any of these chemicals that shift our assemblage points with respect, and as a kind of ritual or ceremony. That's how I've treated it ever since. I treat my occasional trips to Amsterdam the same way some people in TM treat going on a course, or the same way that people in other spiritual traditions treat going on retreat. Will you ever get enlightened from a bong? Probably not, but will you ever get enlightened doing what you've been doing all these years? And even if you do, will enlightenment be better, or merely different. Many spiritual seekers have bought into the dogma that enlightenment is a better state of conscious- ness so long that they cannot even CONCEIVE that it might just be a different state of consciousness. I do not seek enlightenment or any highest state of consciousness. I merely seek different ones, and try to judge them only as experiences, not on any scale of better or worse. Your mileage may vary. Not selling anything here, just telling you my POV on the subject...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: snip Lest the Nabbys and the Jims and the Judys of the world pile on to my own- ing up to toking up when I'm in Amsterdam snip I just can't take the holier than thou shit some supposedly spiritual people on this forum spout. Try not attributing to them shit that they don't and wouldn't spout, and maybe you won't be quite so distraught. Don't know about Nabby or Jim, but I have zero problem with adults smoking pot. Used to be a heavy pot smoker myself, quit only because it lost its appeal. I think it should be legalized, or at least decriminalized. IMHO, it's far, *far* less harmful than alcohol or tobacco and can have many benefits.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
God made pot. Man made beer. Which one are you going to choose? Graffiti Scriptures
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_li...@... wrote: We're able to distinguish between enjoying a fine wine with a gourmet meal and being an alcoholic. Can we please make the same distinctions when discussing pot? This point is brilliant. It applies to people's attitudes about food too. Is fat BAD? It is the source of flavor in our food. Our bodies need it. That doesn't mean if we eat a bunch of the type that causes problems like saturated fats that there will not be repercussions though. But the modern habit of focusing on how bad food is for you is a cultural sickness. It deflates the joy of eating with dubious health benifits. I hear people around a cheese tray at parties with a ripe goat cheese from heaven talking about how sinful it is to eat it as if it's gorgeous buttery whiteness is a pile of crystal meth fresh from a mid-western trailer lab. WTF? It would be a sin to miss out! Same with alcohol. Plenty of people have alcohol problems. Our society has had such a puritanical judgmental attitude about the subject of intoxication that medical clinics send alcoholics to AA, a religious based model, as if that is the only hope. (I know their argument that it isn't religious but for a non religious person it is.) Our medical system has completely failed us if all they can offer people with drinking problems is the 12 step model. But focusing on abusers of alcohol ignores all the great works of art and literature that was facilitated by its use. Like all drugs it gives a different state of mind and many people throughout history have used it for good in their creative lives. The list is endless of associating a masterpiece in any field with a specific drug which helped the person access a part of themselves that they needed to produce it. Not to mention the way people getting together using alcohol or drugs experience a heightening of intimacy. Not everyone wakes up next to a hideous stranger the next day. Some of us have met lifelong friends this way. You can experience some real social peak experiences that celebration cakes do not provide. (Invincibility to Uruguay...) And I'm sorry but the list of people who have created great works of art on meditation has not yet panned out. We have a pretty poor showing from the movement in any field but certainly not what you would expect from access to infinite creativity. I'm not ruling it out yet but let's be real about what we have seen so far. Like all drugs or food even, weed use has a price. And many abuse it until it impacts their lives negatively. But focusing on that aspect of the drug over the overwhelming evidence that artists (musicians especially) have used it for their creative benefit is a modern twisted puritanical POV. And hearing meditators denounce weed claiming that it makes a person stupid and lazy seem ridiculously unaware of Paul Mccartney's lifelong use. (For all those who think he stopped after his Japan bust check out his ex-wife's court documents) The guy is not exactly a creative slouch. And if a couple of bong hits makes it impossible for you to transcend with TM you may want to re-think the claims that your witnessing is evidence that your consciousness will survive death. The best book I ever read on the subject of drugs is called Intoxication: Life in Pursuit of Artificial Paradise by Seigel. He makes the point that many animals get high from substances. He believes that about a quarter of humans have a genetic pre-disposition for seeking altered states. And he points out that the choices we have in society have medical issues associated with them, including pot. It doesn't have to be this way. Laboratories could have figured out a drug that would have us tripping our balls off at a concert and then be able to drive home afterwords with zero side effects. But society has taken the position that having an altered state is a moral failing. This ignores the usefulness for creative people and anyone else who just wants to take a Jamaican vacation after a hard day's work. Or its promising use in therapy sessions. The moral judgment about being high has got to go. We need to stop assigning virtue to one altered state (exercise,meditation and prayer) and vice to others (a deep pull on some sticky icky icky through a hand-blown glass bong made by Tommy Chong) Our primitive value judgments is limiting the advancement in our self knowledge as a human race. We have a lot to learn about these states and we need to start with a clean slate of admitting that we know very little about their positive uses while focusing on the homework issues associated with teenagers huffing too much Mexican ditchweed and polishing off a bag of Chips Ahoy cookies dipped in an oversized glass of Yoohoo. People I know who see auras all say that anti-depressants are about the worst drug to take, and no-one is in jail for taking and selling antidepressants, and anti-depressants are much
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan no_re...@... wrote: God made pot. Man made beer. Which one are you going to choose? Graffiti Scriptures If God didn't want us to drink beer after getting high he wouldn't have included cotton-mouth as a side effect of smoking weed!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: Funnily enough it was TM that stopped me smoking dope. I used to be a fairly heavy user but right after I learned TM I tried it once and disliked the way it interfered with my new found clarity of consciousness. Like a good boy I had also stopped smoking for the two weeks before teaching, as requested, and assumed afterwards that that was good advice considering how bad being stoned made me feel. I had always assumed it affected everyone like that because it really fogs things up, maybe these kids were right OTP or perhaps it was the low quality hashish we get over here. I should get myself to Amsterdam and do some proper research. You never know what you might be missing. Pot is not one thing. As food is not one thing. Various strains have wide variations of 66 or more cannabinoids -- with varying effects. For example, high levels of some, such as as CBC (as I recall) makes one foggy. Many strains have very low CBCs. And there are C1 and C2 receptors. Different strains yield different effects on each. At least 66 cannabinoids have been isolated from the cannabis plant[3] To the right the main classes of natural cannabinoids are shown. All classes derive from cannabigerol-type compounds and differ mainly in the way this precursor is cyclized. Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), cannabidiol (CBD) and cannabinol (CBN) are the most prevalent natural cannabinoids and have received the most study. Other common cannabinoids are listed below: * CBG Cannabigerol * CBC Cannabichromene * CBL Cannabicyclol * CBV Cannabivarin * THCV Tetrahydrocannabivarin * CBDV Cannabidivarin * CBCV Cannabichromevarin * CBGV Cannabigerovarin * CBGM Cannabigerol Monoethyl Ether
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: snip over half of the adult population of the U.S. is on a regular prescription for some kind of antidepressant Not. Where did you get that stat from, Scientology? In 2002, the figures were around 8.5 percent of the civilian noninstitutionalized population: http://www.meps.ahrq.gov/mepsweb/data_files/publications/st77/stat77.pdf http://tinyurl.com/c6t7jj Even if you account for the percentages of children, those who are institutionalized, and noncivilians taking antidepressants, and assume an increase for 2008, you aren't going to end up with anywhere near over half the adult population. Still way too many, of course, but there's no need to inflate the figures to make that point.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: But focusing on abusers of alcohol ignores all the great works of art and literature that was facilitated by its use. Like all drugs it gives a different state of mind and many people throughout history have used it for good in their creative lives. An excellent point, and one that relates to what I was saying earlier about pot shifting one's assemblage point. Well, so does alcohol, when overdone. So does meditation. Artists don't resist these shiftings of their assemblage points (and thus the shift in their POV), they embrace them. And often they wrest great works from those shifts. And, interestingly, their works are often viewed as masterpieces by the same people who pass prohibition laws. Go figure. The list is endless of associating a masterpiece in any field with a specific drug which helped the person access a part of themselves that they needed to produce it. One could probably do a valid and publishable Ph.D. thesis on music and the drug of choice that influenced it. Not to mention the way people getting together using alcohol or drugs experience a heightening of intimacy. Not everyone wakes up next to a hideous stranger the next day. Some of us have met lifelong friends this way. Indeed. Speaking completely honestly and from the heart, gimme a good saloon any day over the highest and purest ashram you can name. The people at the saloon will probably be more honest, and they'll be having more fun. :-) snip And I'm sorry but the list of people who have created great works of art on meditation has not yet panned out. Ahem. Might I recommend The Turquoise Bee: The Love- songs of the Sixth Dalai Lama, by Rick Fields and Brian Cutillo? Or the works of Ikkyu or Bankei? These guys ROCKED. They could definitely get high and write like sumbitches. And their drug of choice was meditation. Mostly. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
does Jim still post here? i haven't seen anyone by that name posting here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Lest the Nabbys and the Jims and the Judys of the world pile on to my own- ing up to toking up when I'm in Amsterdam snip I just can't take the holier than thou shit some supposedly spiritual people on this forum spout. Try not attributing to them shit that they don't and wouldn't spout, and maybe you won't be quite so distraught. Don't know about Nabby or Jim, but I have zero problem with adults smoking pot. Used to be a heavy pot smoker myself, quit only because it lost its appeal. I think it should be legalized, or at least decriminalized. IMHO, it's far, *far* less harmful than alcohol or tobacco and can have many benefits.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
On Feb 24, 2009, at 10:25 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: I, too, dropped drugs during my whole TM period, and during most of the time since. But on my first trip to Amsterdam, I had a What the fuck moment and decided to see what the staid but efficient Dutch had managed to achieve in the cultivation of high-class weed. What I found surprised me -- in a pleasant way. I expected my clarity of mind to vanish and be replaced with what others here have called a fog. It did not. That's because your state of mind was so foggy already you had nowhere to go but up, Barry. :) I'm just throwing that in so that the usual suspects can save themselves the trouble. Don't thank me, Judy, Bob and eternal... it was nothing. What I found was a *different* clarity of mind. The closest I can come to describing it is to use the phrase from Castaneda -- it was a shifting of my assemblage point. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: On Feb 24, 2009, at 10:25 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: I, too, dropped drugs during my whole TM period, and during most of the time since. But on my first trip to Amsterdam, I had a What the fuck moment and decided to see what the staid but efficient Dutch had managed to achieve in the cultivation of high-class weed. What I found surprised me -- in a pleasant way. I expected my clarity of mind to vanish and be replaced with what others here have called a fog. It did not. That's because your state of mind was so foggy already you had nowhere to go but up, Barry. :) I'm just throwing that in so that the usual suspects can save themselves the trouble. Don't thank me, Judy, Bob and eternal... it was nothing. Stupid Sal is hallucinating again where I'm concerned. And she does it even having claimed she doesn't read my posts.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Feb 24, 2009, at 10:25 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: I, too, dropped drugs during my whole TM period, and during most of the time since. But on my first trip to Amsterdam, I had a What the fuck moment and decided to see what the staid but efficient Dutch had managed to achieve in the cultivation of high-class weed. What I found surprised me -- in a pleasant way. I expected my clarity of mind to vanish and be replaced with what others here have called a fog. It did not. That's because your state of mind was so foggy already you had nowhere to go but up, Barry. :) I'm just throwing that in so that the usual suspects can save themselves the trouble. Don't thank me, Judy, Bob and eternal... it was nothing. Stupid Sal is hallucinating again where I'm concerned. And she does it even having claimed she doesn't read my posts. Speaking of clarity of mind, it's quite astonishing how often the TM critics here fog up, even without the benefit of drugs, about what TM defenders have and have not said. (That is, of course, assuming they really believe what they claim.)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: On Feb 24, 2009, at 10:25 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: I, too, dropped drugs during my whole TM period, and during most of the time since. But on my first trip to Amsterdam, I had a What the fuck moment and decided to see what the staid but efficient Dutch had managed to achieve in the cultivation of high-class weed. What I found surprised me -- in a pleasant way. I expected my clarity of mind to vanish and be replaced with what others here have called a fog. It did not. That's because your state of mind was so foggy already you had nowhere to go but up, Barry. :) This is possible. :-) I'm just throwing that in so that the usual suspects can save themselves the trouble. Don't thank me, Judy, Bob and eternal... it was nothing. It's just one of those Laws Of Nature they talk about: (S)he who gets to the straight line first is the best comic.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: On Feb 24, 2009, at 9:42 AM, boo_lives wrote: People I know who see auras all say that anti-depressants are about the worst drug to take, and no-one is in jail for taking and selling antidepressants, and anti-depressants are much more common among ffld sidhas than pot. I won't even bother to get into alchohol and the suffering that causes in society and in ffld. Well maybe your friends who see auras ought to go back to the loony bins they obviously escaped from, boo. Who the hell are they to pass judgements on medication which has helped millions? Sal To clarify I'm not saying that anti-depressant medication can't help some people and it's fully up to them to decide what to do. I mentioned the aura readers just because someone else did to put down cannabis and I wanted to say these people see lots of things and you actually shouldn't go by that either way. I wanted to point out that our society is bipolar regarding drugs. Antidepressants help some people, but also have many physical side effects plus the well known clouding over of the personality and emotions for many people, plus a study I saw last week saying that certain antidepressants in fact didn't have any benefit at all, plus the overprescription of antidepressants to children and to low depression patients who could be treated other ways, YET despite all this we still find a way to get antidepressants to people who need them... but mention cannabis and immediately scenes from reefer madness come to mind and teh possibility that some people will have negative effects means hundreds of thousands of americans are in jail. I'd like to see more equality in how we view pharmaceutical versus non pharmaceutical drugs.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
Pot has been used for thousands of years and has never been anything but a boon to any culture -- until Hearst et al. To me this illegality of weed issue is such a disconnect. I can't get my head around it. How can ANYONE think that pot is anywhere near as harmful as alcohol or tobacco use when these two substances are well known to kill hundreds of thousands of people every year? I mean, it's one thing to speak of the potency of Hearst's propaganda, but when the truth is right there for all the world to see and yet it is denied, it blows me away. It is absolutely the commonest experience for almost anyone to have seen a homeless person with their brown paper bag cheap wine sitting on some stoop in a haze, or we've all seen a person smoking a cigarette and coughing a lung up at the same time. Who doesn't know these end results that usage can create in some lives? Yet, anyone seen smoking a joint in a public place will be thought to be some criminal-at-large who might do anything any second and should be feared and shamed and abused in any way possible. I remember living in Arcata, CA for a year, and it was hippy-ville central. Tie dyes. Granny dresses. The whole magilla. Every Saturday they'd have the farmer's market, and there'd be pot smoke easily smelled everywhere -- even some folks openly toking upcops ignoring it. I was shocked. Today, I understand that this is the case in many other venues now in CA. It's about time. I think the pot heads in Arcata need to learn something from the Gay Pride movement in SF -- make it a regionally identified issue and move now, act up, get in faces, be outrageous, flagrant, and snotty about it. To hell with anymore submissioning to haughty moralists with their atomic tsk-tskings. Have a pot parade like a gay pride parade with giant hookas, boxcar sized blunts, etc. If they legalize it in CA, I think it'd be a tipping point for the whole world. Amsterdam's example is just not enough, but all of California?yeah, now ya gots yourself a tipper. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_li...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Feb 24, 2009, at 9:42 AM, boo_lives wrote: People I know who see auras all say that anti-depressants are about the worst drug to take, and no-one is in jail for taking and selling antidepressants, and anti-depressants are much more common among ffld sidhas than pot. I won't even bother to get into alchohol and the suffering that causes in society and in ffld. Well maybe your friends who see auras ought to go back to the loony bins they obviously escaped from, boo. Who the hell are they to pass judgements on medication which has helped millions? Sal To clarify I'm not saying that anti-depressant medication can't help some people and it's fully up to them to decide what to do. I mentioned the aura readers just because someone else did to put down cannabis and I wanted to say these people see lots of things and you actually shouldn't go by that either way. I wanted to point out that our society is bipolar regarding drugs. Antidepressants help some people, but also have many physical side effects plus the well known clouding over of the personality and emotions for many people, plus a study I saw last week saying that certain antidepressants in fact didn't have any benefit at all, plus the overprescription of antidepressants to children and to low depression patients who could be treated other ways, YET despite all this we still find a way to get antidepressants to people who need them... but mention cannabis and immediately scenes from reefer madness come to mind and teh possibility that some people will have negative effects means hundreds of thousands of americans are in jail. I'd like to see more equality in how we view pharmaceutical versus non pharmaceutical drugs.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_li...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Feb 24, 2009, at 9:42 AM, boo_lives wrote: People I know who see auras all say that anti-depressants are about the worst drug to take, and no-one is in jail for taking and selling antidepressants, and anti-depressants are much more common among ffld sidhas than pot. I won't even bother to get into alchohol and the suffering that causes in society and in ffld. Well maybe your friends who see auras ought to go back to the loony bins they obviously escaped from, boo. Who the hell are they to pass judgements on medication which has helped millions? Sal To clarify I'm not saying that anti-depressant medication can't help some people and it's fully up to them to decide what to do. I mentioned the aura readers just because someone else did to put down cannabis and I wanted to say these people see lots of things and you actually shouldn't go by that either way. I wanted to point out that our society is bipolar regarding drugs. Antidepressants help some people, but also have many physical side effects plus the well known clouding over of the personality and emotions for many people, plus a study I saw last week saying that certain antidepressants in fact didn't have any benefit at all, plus the overprescription of antidepressants to children and to low depression patients who could be treated other ways, YET despite all this we still find a way to get antidepressants to people who need them... but mention cannabis and immediately scenes from reefer madness come to mind and teh possibility that some people will have negative effects means hundreds of thousands of americans are in jail. I'd like to see more equality in how we view pharmaceutical versus non pharmaceutical drugs. A better analogy is comparing mood altering drugs to marijuana. Anti-depressants don't alter the mood and are not addicting in that sense. Benzodiazepines like Xanax or Valium are psychoactive drugs that work on the central nervous system, altering mood and behavior. They are usually dispensed in small amounts and are highly addictive. They have their place but certainly should not be legal and freely available. Marijuana I have mixed feelings about. Face it, marijuana makes you stupid. Not many people can use it day in and day out and still function well. I can see some people may get some benefit from it in medical treatment, though there usually is something else available that works as well or better. But the amount of resources that go to combating this drug seems extreme. I tend to favor decriminalizing its use, but I am not happy about it. California is talking about legalizing it and taxing it. I am sure that won't go over well with the feds. And yes, I smoked a few in my day.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 1:34 PM, ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Marijuana I have mixed feelings about. Face it, marijuana makes you stupid. Not many people can use it day in and day out and still function well. I can see some people may get some benefit from it in medical treatment, though there usually is something else available that works as well or better. But the amount of resources that go to combating this drug seems extreme. I tend to favor decriminalizing its use, but I am not happy about it. California is talking about legalizing it and taxing it. I am sure that won't go over well with the feds. And yes, I smoked a few in my day. I feelings on the matter. I have extremely mixed feelings about Marijuana. It's not easily detectable in drivers and it does impair driving and other things. The active ingredients in Marijuana accumulate in the body, unlike alcohol. Too much money is spent on drug enforcement of Marijuana. I favor decriminalization of it. I'm not happy about full decriminalization of its use, though, because it's not at all like alcohol. Perhaps making Marijuana a sort of scheduled drug without the need of a doctor's prescription. I have known for years how and why Marijuana got criminalized. But I've also known for years how and why opiates got criminalized. Just because something was criminalized for the wrong reasons doesn't mean that criminal sanctions are wrong. New evidence is revealed in the fullness of time and the march of science. I had one experience with Marijuana. It was not at all pleasant. That experience, however, is not why I am ambivalent about having it decriminalized or not. Much of my negative feelings about Marijuana are the result of close quarter observation of people smoking the weed.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... A better analogy is comparing mood altering drugs to marijuana. Anti-depressants don't alter the mood and are not addicting in that sense. Benzodiazepines like Xanax or Valium are psychoactive drugs that work on the central nervous system, altering mood and behavior. They are usually dispensed in small amounts and are highly addictive. They have their place but certainly should not be legal and freely available. Marijuana I have mixed feelings about. Face it,marijuana makes you stupid. This is context dependent and depends on your experience practicing any activity while stoned. Give a neewbie a joint and they will probably have some trouble with the math section of the SATs. (unless that is their thing and they practice math stoned) But in the context of a musical jam the increased connection between kinostetic and auditory channels can boost creativity, just turn on the radio to hear the results. It can make your mind distracted by causing you to hyper focus on sensation. (bedroom boon!) But in the context where this shift is valuable it can be an asset. A tip of the hat to Turq's description of how it shifts thinking. It can deliver a new perspective on thinking. I think it actually brings a bit of the same dissociation that meditation does with the pros and cons of increasing that quality of your mind. This quality is more pronounced with a sativa over indica biased blend. (er...a...or so I'm told...) Not many people can use it day in and day out and still function well. Like many drugs that effect neurotransmitters, regular use flattens the effect. I have known brilliant people in many careers who were daily users. You could never tell if they were stoned. Regular use brings both a tolerance and many synaptic workarounds to allow regular users to function normally. I would say most professionals who are smokers I have known fall into the category of after work smokers. Of course if someone does it all day they had better be in a reggae band! And speaking of Bob Marley, he advocated running and exercise to counter any effects of lethargy from weed. Of course exercise also lifts the lethargy of no exercise too! I don't think wine makes you stupid. But I wouldn't have a glass before tackling the law boards. I can see some people may get some benefit from it in medical treatment, though there usually is something else available that works as well or better. That isn't what I have read. For some people it is the only thing that works. You may know more but this medical party line seems to have some very real counterexamples. I don't think we know enough about pain to claim this yet. The decision should be in the hands of the person in pain. But the amount of resources that go to combating this drug seems extreme. Yes this is abusive use of force on citizens. I tend to favor decriminalizing its use, but I am not happy about it. I favor legalization so it becomes cheap enough to eat. My problem with smoking pot is the smoking. Even the vaporizers effect my lungs for singing unfavorably. (As well as losing some of the most fun macromolecules in cannabis. It isn't only THC for me.) Burning a plant is definitely a primitive delivery system for any drug. We can do better if we would lift the shame ban. With drugs like meth around I am furious that any of our tax dollars go to fighting weed and incarcerating users and destroying families. California is talking about legalizing it and taxing it. I am sure that won't go over well with the feds. This is going to be interesting to see how Obama handles this question. Typically Democrats have to be even tougher on drug enforcement to keep from being labeled soft on crime by Republicans. Obama may be man enough to break this ridiculous cycle. I'm not holding my breath though. (Wow that works on so many levels!) And yes, I smoked a few in my day. I guess with a president who has admitted snorting lines of coke this kind of online revelation isn't a big deal anymore. Of course everything I wrote here is from what I read in magazines. And I am officially vehemently opposed to using any babies for fertilizing marijuana gardens. (It increases the nitrogen too high and makes the plant stringy with loose buds.) wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_lives@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Feb 24, 2009, at 9:42 AM, boo_lives wrote: People I know who see auras all say that anti-depressants are about the worst drug to take, and no-one is in jail for taking and selling antidepressants, and anti-depressants are much more common among ffld sidhas than pot. I won't even bother to get into alchohol and the suffering that causes in society and in ffld. Well maybe your friends who see auras ought to go back to the loony bins
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:28 PM, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... A better analogy is comparing mood altering drugs to marijuana. Anti-depressants don't alter the mood and are not addicting in that sense. Benzodiazepines like Xanax or Valium are psychoactive drugs that work on the central nervous system, altering mood and behavior. They are usually dispensed in small amounts and are highly addictive. They have their place but certainly should not be legal and freely available. Marijuana I have mixed feelings about. Face it,marijuana makes you stupid. This is context dependent and depends on your experience practicing any activity while stoned. Give a neewbie a joint and they will probably have some trouble with the math section of the SATs. (unless that is their thing and they practice math stoned) But in the context of a musical jam the increased connection between kinostetic and auditory channels can boost creativity, just turn on the radio to hear the results. It can make your mind distracted by causing you to hyper focus on sensation. (bedroom boon!) But in the context where this shift is valuable it can be an asset. This is gratuitous. I've heard this a million times. It is the same litany, pretty much word for word. Practice makes perfect. I can get stoned and act perfectly normal. Nobody is the wiser. I'm not sure if I buy this or not. I would like to see some studies that show this is really the case and not just a stoner telling me it's the case. My observation is that judgement and behavior are impaired, no matter what the experience level with the weed is. I suspect the person is saying that they've accumulated to being stoned so that they don't notice being stoned anymore. But I don't care to debate this issue. I have my vote and I have my campaign contributions to give. I will use them as I desire and see fit.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: snip Marijuana I have mixed feelings about. Face it,marijuana makes you stupid. This is context dependent and depends on your experience practicing any activity while stoned. Give a neewbie a joint and they will probably have some trouble with the math section of the SATs. (unless that is their thing and they practice math stoned) But in the context of a musical jam the increased connection between kinostetic and auditory channels can boost creativity, just turn on the radio to hear the results. It can make your mind distracted by causing you to hyper focus on sensation. (bedroom boon!) But in the context where this shift is valuable it can be an asset. This is gratuitous. I've heard this a million times. It is the same litany, pretty much word for word. Practice makes perfect. I can get stoned and act perfectly normal. Nobody is the wiser. I'm not sure if I buy this or not. I would like to see some studies that show this is really the case and not just a stoner telling me it's the case. In this case it is a non stoner telling you it is my experience of stoners. We don't know what functions are enhanced or impaired by pot. But in my experience in the tech field with computer programmers, a blanket statement that it makes you stupid is wrong. Many fields have a high number of high functioning users. Equating use with abuse of any drug is an over generalization. I don't think your term gratuitous is context appropriate. Especially after I mentioned its value in the bedroom. If you haven't experienced it you don't know what I am talking about. My observation is that judgement and behavior are impaired, no matter what the experience level with the weed is. Like Jimi Hendrix's playing? Like one out of three computer coders who have to work after 6? Perhaps Bill Maher uses it to write rather than deliver his scripts. But it has values in certain contexts for certain people. All of our brains don't react the same way to any psychoactive drug. This is where blanket use laws fail. I suspect the person is saying that they've accumulated to being stoned so that they don't notice being stoned anymore. I am saying that I can't always tell with certain people. But I don't care to debate this issue. No, you wanted an unopposed last word. Sorry to disappoint you. I have my vote and I have my campaign contributions to give. I will use them as I desire and see fit. This is the same freedom of choice I am advocating for smokers.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: . You can experience some real social peak experiences that celebration cakes do not provide. (Invincibility to Uruguay...) Quote of the day. Great points Curtis! BTW, ever delighted in the sent-from-heaven complexity of a Belgium Trappist Monk ale like Chimay or Westmalle? It really is damn near a religious experience!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
On Feb 24, 2009, at 2:34 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: A better analogy is comparing mood altering drugs to marijuana. Anti-depressants don't alter the mood and are not addicting in that sense. Benzodiazepines like Xanax or Valium are psychoactive drugs that work on the central nervous system, altering mood and behavior. They are usually dispensed in small amounts and are highly addictive. They have their place but certainly should not be legal and freely available. Marijuana I have mixed feelings about. Face it, marijuana makes you stupid. Not many people can use it day in and day out and still function well. I can see some people may get some benefit from it in medical treatment, though there usually is something else available that works as well or better. But the amount of resources that go to combating this drug seems extreme. I tend to favor decriminalizing its use, but I am not happy about it. California is talking about legalizing it and taxing it. I am sure that won't go over well with the feds. And yes, I smoked a few in my day. Well not necessarily stupid, but it certainly predisposes you to, uh, a different style of functioning. If you've ever seen PET cerebral perfusion studies done across time on a marijuana smoker, it looks like someone took an eraser and erased parts of the frontal lobes. A kinda swiss cheese appearance, if you will. Ayurveda claims to be able to help in this regard. I remember eating dinner with a particular guru and the women arranged all of our large round plates so that food on the opposite side of the plate, was always it's antidote. That way, if you ever ate anything that didn't agree with you, you just ate it's opposite. Same with hooch, it's opposite is acorus calamus (calamus root). It is alleged to remove most of the negative side effects. Calamus root, which contains asarone, is taken, a red-hot gold needle inserted and the small amount of powder added to honey, and then added to a mother's breast milk in many upper-caste Indian homes with their newborns. It is believed to awaken higher intelligence. Asarone is a precurser of TMA-2, which is many times more potent than mescaline. Of course it's only available in extremely small quantities as given.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal L.Shaddai@ wrote: This is gratuitous. I've heard this a million times. It is the same litany, pretty much word for word. Practice makes perfect. I can get stoned and act perfectly normal. Nobody is the wiser. I'm not sure if I buy this or not. I would like to see some studies that show this is really the case and not just a stoner telling me it's the case. I would agree with you about perfectly normal. But the word you're searching for is to maintain. Some can maintain better than others, just as some on this forum can rein in their anger and not lash out, and others can't. It's a control issue, as I wrote about once using martial arts and sports metaphors. That said, I was not reassured by stories wafting down the hill from Los Alamos of people having found roaches (and not the insect kind) in the nuclear reactor room. That's not maintaining, that's being an idiot, and those people should be tracked down and moved into a job in which the safety of others does not depend on them. The four physicists I knew who worked at that lab, and who all smoked, agreed with me completely. They smoked at home. In this case it is a non stoner telling you it is my experience of stoners. We don't know what functions are enhanced or impaired by pot. But in my experience in the tech field with computer programmers, a blanket statement that it makes you stupid is wrong. Many fields have a high number of high functioning users. Including religion and alternative spirituality and politics. Equating use with abuse of any drug is an over generalization. I don't think your term gratuitous is context appropriate. Especially after I mentioned its value in the bedroom. If you haven't experienced it you don't know what I am talking about. A good point. There are some here who believe that bedrooms are only to sleep in. :-) There is a testable lengthening of reaction time in most pot users. But not all. Still, this occurs in a high enough percentage of users that I'd go on record as saying they should not drive, fly planes, or perform any activity that could injure other people. That said, some of the prescription medicines that commercial pilots are allowed to take impair their reaction time just as much, so go figure. The difference is that the users of the prescription medicines have not been systematically demonized for decades. I am with Curtis in being down on meth. And heroin. And, for me, cocaine. I've seen a number of lives destroyed by cocaine. But marijuana and some of the hallucinogens -- used wisely -- I do not think that they should be classed with the other three. Instead, they should be handled with tolerance and with education. Last time I was in Amsterdam (some years ago now), I saw a couple of fairly young (20s) tourists buying some shrooms. They were in a convenience store, and the psychedelic mushrooms were in the fridge, in shrinkwrap. Each was labeled as to its potency, the likely duration of the trip, and all possible side effects. The couple selected one of the less potent brands of shrooms and walked to the counter with them. The proprietor of the convenience store looked at the couple, noted what they had selected, and refused to sell it to them until he had given them a five- minute talk about what to expect, and what to do if they found themselves in any way scared or having a bad trip. I thought that this was fairly responsible vending of a hallucinogenic substance. This would not have happened if the shrooms had been made illegal. There would have been at best a five- second furtive transaction in a back alley, with only the shrooms changing hands, and none of the knowledge.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: . You can experience some real social peak experiences that celebration cakes do not provide. (Invincibility to Uruguay...) Quote of the day. Great points Curtis! BTW, ever delighted in the sent-from-heaven complexity of a Belgium Trappist Monk ale like Chimay or Westmalle? It really is damn near a religious experience! Oh yeah. complex and satisfying like liquid bread! And with Hops as a cousin to cannabis who knows which part the magic brew gives it the magic! I favor domestic versions for the freshness but I'm a micro brew man.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: Pot has been used for thousands of years and has never been anything but a boon to any culture -- until Hearst et al. Actually, research being done at Columbia University for the last 10 years shows that cannabis use (yes plain old marijuana) increases the likelihood of developing psychosis by ten fold. I have heard presentations by these drs (presented at the annual Schizophrenia Research Conference in April 2008) and it is no joke. Even a single use can trigger psychosis and schizophrenia. I have also met a few young adults with schizophrenia or talked with their parents - kids who developed it after using marijuana just once or twice, say on their spring break from freshman year of college. Even after taking in to account that schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders often develop at that age range, there seems to be quite good evidence of the increased risk involved. A tenfold (not 10%) increase is a lot. Having seen what schizophrenia has done to some of these kids, well, it seems like a big risk to take. I don't mean to sound like a killjoy, but this is the research coming out, good research, not TMO wishful thinking. To me this illegality of weed issue is such a disconnect. I can't get my head around it. How can ANYONE think that pot is anywhere near as harmful as alcohol or tobacco use when these two substances are well known to kill hundreds of thousands of people every year? I mean, it's one thing to speak of the potency of Hearst's propaganda, but when the truth is right there for all the world to see and yet it is denied, it blows me away. It is absolutely the commonest experience for almost anyone to have seen a homeless person with their brown paper bag cheap wine sitting on some stoop in a haze, or we've all seen a person smoking a cigarette and coughing a lung up at the same time. Who doesn't know these end results that usage can create in some lives? Yet, anyone seen smoking a joint in a public place will be thought to be some criminal-at-large who might do anything any second and should be feared and shamed and abused in any way possible. I remember living in Arcata, CA for a year, and it was hippy-ville central. Tie dyes. Granny dresses. The whole magilla. Every Saturday they'd have the farmer's market, and there'd be pot smoke easily smelled everywhere -- even some folks openly toking upcops ignoring it. I was shocked. Today, I understand that this is the case in many other venues now in CA. It's about time. I think the pot heads in Arcata need to learn something from the Gay Pride movement in SF -- make it a regionally identified issue and move now, act up, get in faces, be outrageous, flagrant, and snotty about it. To hell with anymore submissioning to haughty moralists with their atomic tsk-tskings. Have a pot parade like a gay pride parade with giant hookas, boxcar sized blunts, etc. If they legalize it in CA, I think it'd be a tipping point for the whole world. Amsterdam's example is just not enough, but all of California?yeah, now ya gots yourself a tipper. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_lives@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Feb 24, 2009, at 9:42 AM, boo_lives wrote: People I know who see auras all say that anti-depressants are about the worst drug to take, and no-one is in jail for taking and selling antidepressants, and anti-depressants are much more common among ffld sidhas than pot. I won't even bother to get into alchohol and the suffering that causes in society and in ffld. Well maybe your friends who see auras ought to go back to the loony bins they obviously escaped from, boo. Who the hell are they to pass judgements on medication which has helped millions? Sal To clarify I'm not saying that anti-depressant medication can't help some people and it's fully up to them to decide what to do. I mentioned the aura readers just because someone else did to put down cannabis and I wanted to say these people see lots of things and you actually shouldn't go by that either way. I wanted to point out that our society is bipolar regarding drugs. Antidepressants help some people, but also have many physical side effects plus the well known clouding over of the personality and emotions for many people, plus a study I saw last week saying that certain antidepressants in fact didn't have any benefit at all, plus the overprescription of antidepressants to children and to low depression patients who could be treated other ways, YET despite all this we still find a way to get antidepressants to people who need them... but mention cannabis and immediately scenes from reefer madness come to mind and teh possibility that some people will
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
It seems those who speak do not know while those who know do not speak. But some nice words.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 waybac...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Pot has been used for thousands of years and has never been anything but a boon to any culture -- until Hearst et al. Actually, research being done at Columbia University for the last 10 years shows that cannabis use (yes plain old marijuana) increases the likelihood of developing psychosis by ten fold. Add this info to the list of reasons for legalization or decriminalization. In Amsterdam the percent of young people smoking easily available weed is less than kids in the US. The health risks can be handled much better once we free the money from law enforcement and put it into research and education. I wonder if anyone has studied the catastrophic effects of incarceration on the the mental health of young people. I have heard presentations by these drs (presented at the annual Schizophrenia Research Conference in April 2008) and it is no joke. Even a single use can trigger psychosis and schizophrenia. I have also met a few young adults with schizophrenia or talked with their parents - kids who developed it after using marijuana just once or twice, say on their spring break from freshman year of college. Even after taking in to account that schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders often develop at that age range, there seems to be quite good evidence of the increased risk involved. A tenfold (not 10%) increase is a lot. Having seen what schizophrenia has done to some of these kids, well, it seems like a big risk to take. I don't mean to sound like a killjoy, but this is the research coming out, good research, not TMO wishful thinking. To me this illegality of weed issue is such a disconnect. I can't get my head around it. How can ANYONE think that pot is anywhere near as harmful as alcohol or tobacco use when these two substances are well known to kill hundreds of thousands of people every year? I mean, it's one thing to speak of the potency of Hearst's propaganda, but when the truth is right there for all the world to see and yet it is denied, it blows me away. It is absolutely the commonest experience for almost anyone to have seen a homeless person with their brown paper bag cheap wine sitting on some stoop in a haze, or we've all seen a person smoking a cigarette and coughing a lung up at the same time. Who doesn't know these end results that usage can create in some lives? Yet, anyone seen smoking a joint in a public place will be thought to be some criminal-at-large who might do anything any second and should be feared and shamed and abused in any way possible. I remember living in Arcata, CA for a year, and it was hippy-ville central. Tie dyes. Granny dresses. The whole magilla. Every Saturday they'd have the farmer's market, and there'd be pot smoke easily smelled everywhere -- even some folks openly toking upcops ignoring it. I was shocked. Today, I understand that this is the case in many other venues now in CA. It's about time. I think the pot heads in Arcata need to learn something from the Gay Pride movement in SF -- make it a regionally identified issue and move now, act up, get in faces, be outrageous, flagrant, and snotty about it. To hell with anymore submissioning to haughty moralists with their atomic tsk-tskings. Have a pot parade like a gay pride parade with giant hookas, boxcar sized blunts, etc. If they legalize it in CA, I think it'd be a tipping point for the whole world. Amsterdam's example is just not enough, but all of California?yeah, now ya gots yourself a tipper. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_lives@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Feb 24, 2009, at 9:42 AM, boo_lives wrote: People I know who see auras all say that anti-depressants are about the worst drug to take, and no-one is in jail for taking and selling antidepressants, and anti-depressants are much more common among ffld sidhas than pot. I won't even bother to get into alchohol and the suffering that causes in society and in ffld. Well maybe your friends who see auras ought to go back to the loony bins they obviously escaped from, boo. Who the hell are they to pass judgements on medication which has helped millions? Sal To clarify I'm not saying that anti-depressant medication can't help some people and it's fully up to them to decide what to do. I mentioned the aura readers just because someone else did to put down cannabis and I wanted to say these people see lots of things and you actually shouldn't go by that either way. I wanted to point out that our society is bipolar regarding drugs. Antidepressants help some people, but
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_lives@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Feb 24, 2009, at 9:42 AM, boo_lives wrote: People I know who see auras all say that anti-depressants are about the worst drug to take, and no-one is in jail for taking and selling antidepressants, and anti-depressants are much more common among ffld sidhas than pot. I won't even bother to get into alchohol and the suffering that causes in society and in ffld. Well maybe your friends who see auras ought to go back to the loony bins they obviously escaped from, boo. Who the hell are they to pass judgements on medication which has helped millions? Sal To clarify I'm not saying that anti-depressant medication can't help some people and it's fully up to them to decide what to do. I mentioned the aura readers just because someone else did to put down cannabis and I wanted to say these people see lots of things and you actually shouldn't go by that either way. I wanted to point out that our society is bipolar regarding drugs. Antidepressants help some people, but also have many physical side effects plus the well known clouding over of the personality and emotions for many people, plus a study I saw last week saying that certain antidepressants in fact didn't have any benefit at all, plus the overprescription of antidepressants to children and to low depression patients who could be treated other ways, YET despite all this we still find a way to get antidepressants to people who need them... but mention cannabis and immediately scenes from reefer madness come to mind and teh possibility that some people will have negative effects means hundreds of thousands of americans are in jail. I'd like to see more equality in how we view pharmaceutical versus non pharmaceutical drugs. A better analogy is comparing mood altering drugs to marijuana. Anti-depressants don't alter the mood and are not addicting in that sense. Benzodiazepines like Xanax or Valium are psychoactive drugs that work on the central nervous system, altering mood and behavior. They are usually dispensed in small amounts and are highly addictive. They have their place but certainly should not be legal and freely available. Marijuana I have mixed feelings about. Face it, marijuana makes you stupid. Not many people can use it day in and day out and still function well. I can see some people may get some benefit from it in medical treatment, though there usually is something else available that works as well or better. But the amount of resources that go to combating this drug seems extreme. I tend to favor decriminalizing its use, but I am not happy about it. California is talking about legalizing it and taxing it. I am sure that won't go over well with the feds. And yes, I smoked a few in my day. The Feds are no longer prosecuting any cases in California. The Obama administration has ceased this practice, and is respecting the vote to decriminalize marijuana in California. Marijuana is much less harmful than alchohol. It can be used as an anti-depressent, and for many other ailments. The drug companies don't want it legalized, because they will lose money, as people switch to this more natural way to rise above depression. Marijuana has an aphrodisiac effect on most people. Marijuana is associated with Shiva, among the Sadhus of India. No one has ever over-dosed on marijuana. Reagan had a thing against the hippies, and the 'counter-culture; And the corporate-controlled media, went along, with brain-washing people concerning marijuana... Because people can grow marijuana, the drug companies and the government would not make as much money, on it, as they do producing chemicals... There are many rumors and innuendos concerning marijuana... Like any womanly herbal remedy, she is mysterious, and subtle. Mary Jane, Ganja, Buddha are some common street terms for marijuana. The Rastafarian Tribe of Jamaica, believes marijuana is a sacrament and call it Jah. R.g.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Pot has been used for thousands of years and has never been anything but a boon to any culture -- until Hearst et al. Actually, research being done at Columbia University for the last 10 years shows that cannabis use (yes plain old marijuana) increases the likelihood of developing psychosis by ten fold. You are joking right? Another satire? quote Down at the bottom of the CNN report (Marijuana may increase psychosis risk, analysis says ) on the Lancet published study that claims that frequent marijuana use may cause psychosis we find: Two of the authors of the study were invited experts on the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs Cannabis Review in 2005. Several authors reported being paid to attend drug company-sponsored meetings related to marijuana, and one received consulting fees from companies that make antipsychotic medications. Thank goodness that the drug companies have those scientists on staff. As seems quite possible a scientist could make quite different conclusions from the study. CNN's nay sayer offers weak protest: Dr. Wilson Compton, a senior scientist at the National Institute on Drug Abuse in Washington, called the study persuasive. but Scientists cannot rule out that pre-existing conditions could have led to both marijuana use and later psychoses, he added. Actually, the Lancet report does offer to rule out pre-existing conditions but don't let that stop mainstream news from burying any protests against cooked science deeply under a mountain of neocon BS. Also, note the politically convenient timing of the report: In the U.K., the government will soon reconsider how marijuana should be classified in its hierarchy of drugs. In 2004, it was downgraded and penalties for possession were reduced. Many expect marijuana will be bumped up to a class B category, with offenses likely to lead to arrests or longer jail sentences. It has been shown that the War on Drugs has increased terrorism (especially in poor third world countries). It is still possible that marijuana is being used by psychotic people like medical marijuana is, as an actual palliative. This could be what the drug companies fear, a natural, growable, alternative to their expensive drugs. quote 2 Psychosis and Marijuana Use There is no proof that cannabis can cause a psychosis with people who don't have a history of psychotic behavior or a tendency for psychosis. It is a fact that only a small percentage of the estimated 300 000 people who smoke cannabis in Holland become psychotic. As far as we know it only concerns people who are consciously or unconsciously sensitive for psychosis. However, it is possible that cannabis can turn out badly with healthy people as well and cause anxiety or depression. Fortunately, these symptoms will not last and quickly disappear. There is no proof whatsoever that long-term and daily use of cannabis can cause a psychosis among healthy people, but the risk cannot be totally ignored. There are examples of people in India who - after years of daily use - started to show symptoms similar to psychosis, like hallucinations, delusions and total introversion. However, these are just descriptions of cases and are not scientifically proven. So cannabis is almost positively harmful to people who tend to psychosis. Therefore, in 1993 research was done at the Academic Medical Center in Amsterdam (AMC) among 93 psychotic patients. It showed that 61% of the patients who used cannabis during 15 months, more than once a day, fell back into a psychosis. Almost every user suffering from psychosis turned out to use cannabis at least a year before their first psychosis. According to the researcher it meant that the use of cannabis by vulnerable people could result in developing a psychosis. (Source: Don Linszen et al., Archives of General Psychiatry 1994). Further research to the use of cannabis by people with a tendency to psychosis shows that: * Relapse in a psychosis occurs more often among cannabis users than non-cannabis users. * Cannabis has a negative effect on the course of the psychosis. * Users of cannabis suffering from a psychosis become psychotic faster, more heavily and more sustained. * Users of cannabis with a tendency to psychosis become psychotic at a younger age than non-users. * Medication necessary for psychotic patients is less effective when someone uses cannabis. At the same time the side effects are less harmful. Often that is one of the reasons why people use cannabis. * Psychotic people often use cannabis because it decreases the symptoms of the psychosis. It is used as a form of self-medication against fears, especially social fears like difficulty in talking in public. Patients indicate that it was easier and they felt better when they had used cannabis. Note that using cannabis is illegal in most countries. end of quote
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Pot has been used for thousands of years and has never been anything but a boon to any culture -- until Hearst et al. Actually, research being done at Columbia University for the last 10 years shows that cannabis use (yes plain old marijuana) increases the likelihood of developing psychosis by ten fold. You are joking right? Another satire? quote Down at the bottom of the CNN report (Marijuana may increase psychosis risk, analysis says ) on the Lancet published study that claims that frequent marijuana use may cause psychosis we find: Two of the authors of the study were invited experts on the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs Cannabis Review in 2005. Several authors reported being paid to attend drug company-sponsored meetings related to marijuana, and one received consulting fees from companies that make antipsychotic medications. Thank goodness that the drug companies have those scientists on staff. As seems quite possible a scientist could make quite different conclusions from the study. CNN's nay sayer offers weak protest: Dr. Wilson Compton, a senior scientist at the National Institute on Drug Abuse in Washington, called the study persuasive. but Scientists cannot rule out that pre-existing conditions could have led to both marijuana use and later psychoses, he added. Actually, the Lancet report does offer to rule out pre-existing conditions but don't let that stop mainstream news from burying any protests against cooked science deeply under a mountain of neocon BS. Also, note the politically convenient timing of the report: In the U.K., the government will soon reconsider how marijuana should be classified in its hierarchy of drugs. In 2004, it was downgraded and penalties for possession were reduced. Many expect marijuana will be bumped up to a class B category, with offenses likely to lead to arrests or longer jail sentences. It has been shown that the War on Drugs has increased terrorism (especially in poor third world countries). It is still possible that marijuana is being used by psychotic people like medical marijuana is, as an actual palliative. This could be what the drug companies fear, a natural, growable, alternative to their expensive drugs. quote 2 Psychosis and Marijuana Use There is no proof that cannabis can cause a psychosis with people who don't have a history of psychotic behavior or a tendency for psychosis. It is a fact that only a small percentage of the estimated 300 000 people who smoke cannabis in Holland become psychotic. As far as we know it only concerns people who are consciously or unconsciously sensitive for psychosis. However, it is possible that cannabis can turn out badly with healthy people as well and cause anxiety or depression. Fortunately, these symptoms will not last and quickly disappear. There is no proof whatsoever that long-term and daily use of cannabis can cause a psychosis among healthy people, but the risk cannot be totally ignored. There are examples of people in India who - after years of daily use - started to show symptoms similar to psychosis, like hallucinations, delusions and total introversion. However, these are just descriptions of cases and are not scientifically proven. So cannabis is almost positively harmful to people who tend to psychosis. Therefore, in 1993 research was done at the Academic Medical Center in Amsterdam (AMC) among 93 psychotic patients. It showed that 61% of the patients who used cannabis during 15 months, more than once a day, fell back into a psychosis. Almost every user suffering from psychosis turned out to use cannabis at least a year before their first psychosis. According to the researcher it meant that the use of cannabis by vulnerable people could result in developing a psychosis. (Source: Don Linszen et al., Archives of General Psychiatry 1994). Further research to the use of cannabis by people with a tendency to psychosis shows that: * Relapse in a psychosis occurs more often among cannabis users than non-cannabis users. * Cannabis has a negative effect on the course of the psychosis. * Users of cannabis suffering from a psychosis become psychotic faster, more heavily and more sustained. * Users of cannabis with a tendency to psychosis become psychotic at a younger age than non-users. * Medication necessary for psychotic patients is less effective when someone uses cannabis. At the same time the side effects are less harmful. Often that is one of the reasons why people use cannabis. * Psychotic people often use cannabis because it decreases the symptoms of the psychosis. It is used as a form of self-medication against fears, especially social fears like difficulty in talking in public. Patients indicate that it was easier and they felt better when they had used cannabis. Note that using cannabis is illegal in most countries. end of quote
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Pot has been used for thousands of years and has never been anything but a boon to any culture -- until Hearst et al. Actually, research being done at Columbia University for the last 10 years shows that cannabis use (yes plain old marijuana) increases the likelihood of developing psychosis by ten fold. You are joking right? Another satire? quote Down at the bottom of the CNN report (Marijuana may increase psychosis risk, analysis says ) on the Lancet published study that claims that frequent marijuana use may cause psychosis we find: Two of the authors of the study were invited experts on the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs Cannabis Review in 2005. Several authors reported being paid to attend drug company-sponsored meetings related to marijuana, and one received consulting fees from companies that make antipsychotic medications. Thank goodness that the drug companies have those scientists on staff. As seems quite possible a scientist could make quite different conclusions from the study. CNN's nay sayer offers weak protest: Dr. Wilson Compton, a senior scientist at the National Institute on Drug Abuse in Washington, called the study persuasive. but Scientists cannot rule out that pre-existing conditions could have led to both marijuana use and later psychoses, he added. Actually, the Lancet report does offer to rule out pre-existing conditions but don't let that stop mainstream news from burying any protests against cooked science deeply under a mountain of neocon BS. Also, note the politically convenient timing of the report: In the U.K., the government will soon reconsider how marijuana should be classified in its hierarchy of drugs. In 2004, it was downgraded and penalties for possession were reduced. Many expect marijuana will be bumped up to a class B category, with offenses likely to lead to arrests or longer jail sentences. It has been shown that the War on Drugs has increased terrorism (especially in poor third world countries). It is still possible that marijuana is being used by psychotic people like medical marijuana is, as an actual palliative. This could be what the drug companies fear, a natural, growable, alternative to their expensive drugs. quote 2 Psychosis and Marijuana Use There is no proof that cannabis can cause a psychosis with people who don't have a history of psychotic behavior or a tendency for psychosis. It is a fact that only a small percentage of the estimated 300 000 people who smoke cannabis in Holland become psychotic. As far as we know it only concerns people who are consciously or unconsciously sensitive for psychosis. However, it is possible that cannabis can turn out badly with healthy people as well and cause anxiety or depression. Fortunately, these symptoms will not last and quickly disappear. There is no proof whatsoever that long-term and daily use of cannabis can cause a psychosis among healthy people, but the risk cannot be totally ignored. There are examples of people in India who - after years of daily use - started to show symptoms similar to psychosis, like hallucinations, delusions and total introversion. However, these are just descriptions of cases and are not scientifically proven. So cannabis is almost positively harmful to people who tend to psychosis. Therefore, in 1993 research was done at the Academic Medical Center in Amsterdam (AMC) among 93 psychotic patients. It showed that 61% of the patients who used cannabis during 15 months, more than once a day, fell back into a psychosis. Almost every user suffering from psychosis turned out to use cannabis at least a year before their first psychosis. According to the researcher it meant that the use of cannabis by vulnerable people could result in developing a psychosis. (Source: Don Linszen et al., Archives of General Psychiatry 1994). Further research to the use of cannabis by people with a tendency to psychosis shows that: * Relapse in a psychosis occurs more often among cannabis users than non-cannabis users. * Cannabis has a negative effect on the course of the psychosis. * Users of cannabis suffering from a psychosis become psychotic faster, more heavily and more sustained. * Users of cannabis with a tendency to psychosis become psychotic at a younger age than non-users. * Medication necessary for psychotic patients is less effective when someone uses cannabis. At the same time the side effects are less harmful. Often that is one of the reasons why people use cannabis. * Psychotic people often use cannabis because it decreases the symptoms of the psychosis. It is used as a form of self-medication against fears, especially social fears like difficulty in talking in public. Patients indicate that it was easier and they felt better when they had used cannabis. Note that using cannabis is illegal in most countries. end of quote
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal L.Shaddai@ wrote: snip Marijuana I have mixed feelings about. Face it,marijuana makes you stupid. This is context dependent and depends on your experience practicing any activity while stoned. Give a neewbie a joint and they will probably have some trouble with the math section of the SATs. (unless that is their thing and they practice math stoned) But in the context of a musical jam the increased connection between kinostetic and auditory channels can boost creativity, just turn on the radio to hear the results. It can make your mind distracted by causing you to hyper focus on sensation. (bedroom boon!) But in the context where this shift is valuable it can be an asset. This is gratuitous. I've heard this a million times. It is the same litany, pretty much word for word. Practice makes perfect. I can get stoned and act perfectly normal. Nobody is the wiser. I'm not sure if I buy this or not. I would like to see some studies that show this is really the case and not just a stoner telling me it's the case. In this case it is a non stoner telling you it is my experience of stoners. We don't know what functions are enhanced or impaired by pot. But in my experience in the tech field with computer programmers, a blanket statement that it makes you stupid is wrong. Many fields have a high number of high functioning users. Equating use with abuse of any drug is an over generalization. I don't think your term gratuitous is context appropriate. Especially after I mentioned its value in the bedroom. If you haven't experienced it you don't know what I am talking about. It would take I am the eternal (christ, what a handle!) a while to get the wet loin cloth off to even get to the joint. My observation is that judgement and behavior are impaired, no matter what the experience level with the weed is. Like Jimi Hendrix's playing? Like one out of three computer coders who have to work after 6? Perhaps Bill Maher uses it to write rather than deliver his scripts. But it has values in certain contexts for certain people. All of our brains don't react the same way to any psychoactive drug. This is where blanket use laws fail. Yep. One of the most creative people I've worked with is a noted jazz composer and arranger (up for a Grammy this year) who smokes more pot than anyone I've ever met. Instead of dulling him out it seems to energize him and truly get his creative juices flowing. You (Mr. Eternal) can deny this, but thing is, this guy has the award winning noted career in his field to back him up that, for him anyway, pot works well. Me? 35+ years ago I loved it, but like so many I did the two week program to start TM. Then, about the same time I was hanging w/Barry in LA in the late 70s I tried it again a few times. It didn't click for me. But I know plenty of folks who it do just fine with it. And, I know one or two who become null and void. So what? Speaking of null and void, ever hang out with a bunch of long term parushas?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: . You can experience some real social peak experiences that celebration cakes do not provide. (Invincibility to Uruguay...) Quote of the day. Great points Curtis! BTW, ever delighted in the sent-from-heaven complexity of a Belgium Trappist Monk ale like Chimay or Westmalle? It really is damn near a religious experience! Oh yeah. complex and satisfying like liquid bread! And with Hops as a cousin to cannabis who knows which part the magic brew gives it the magic! I favor domestic versions for the freshness but I'm a micro brew man. Yep, of COURSE you're hip to the Trappist brew! Lately I've been really getting into some of the fine India Pale Ales that are produced right here in the USA. Ever try Ruination IPA brewed by Stone in CA? Beautiful stuff that you just hold in your mouth and savor. Damn Curtis. One of these dayswe gotta hang out and do some serious listening, dining and tasten'!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
Smoking pot makes ya lazy and stupid, that's why society has enacted laws agin it (not that this alcohol-based society has a leg up on stupidity). These kids threw away the opportunity to really expand their consciousness through TM and, proving the point about how stupid pot makes ya, used 100x the electricity an ordinary household would use just so Sheriff John would get the message. The question recurs, how shall we fortify against it? The answer is simple. Let every American, every lover of liberty, every well wisher to his posterity, swear by the blood of the Revolution, never to violate in the least particular, the laws of the country; and never to tolerate their violation by others. As the patriots of seventy-six did to the support of the Declaration of Independence, so to the support of the Constitution and Laws, let every American pledge his life, his property, and his sacred honor;-- let every man remember that to violate the law, is to trample on the blood of his father, and to tear the character of his own, and his children's liberty. Let reverence for the laws, be breathed by every American mother, to the lisping babe, that prattles on her lap--let it be taught in schools, in seminaries, and in colleges; let it be written in Primers, spelling books, and in Almanacs;--let it be preached from the pulpit, proclaimed in legislative halls, and enforced in courts of justice. And, in short, let it become the political religion of the nation; and let the old and the young, the rich and the poor, the grave and the gay, of all sexes and tongues, and colors and conditions, sacrifice unceasingly upon its altars. While ever a state of feeling, such as this, shall universally, or even, very generally prevail throughout the nation, vain will be every effort, and fruitless every attempt, to subvert our national freedom. They were a fortress of strength; but, what invading foeman could never do, the silent artillery of time has done; the leveling of its walls. They are gone.--They were a forest of giant oaks; but the all- resistless hurricane has swept over them, and left only, here and there, a lonely trunk, despoiled of its verdure, shorn of its foliage; unshading and unshaded, to murmur in a few gentle breezes, and to combat with its mutilated limbs, a few more ruder storms, then to sink, and be no more. They were the pillars of the temple of liberty; and now, that they have crumbled away, that temple must fall, unless we, their descendants, supply their places with other pillars, hewn from the solid quarry of sober reason. Passion has helped us; but can do so no more. It will in future be our enemy. Reason, cold, calculating, unimpassioned reason, must furnish all the materials for our future support and defence.--Let those materials be moulded into general intelligence, sound morality, and in particular, a reverence for the constitution and laws: and, that we improved to the last; that we remained free to the last; that we revered his name to the last; that, during his long sleep, we permitted no hostile foot to pass over or desecrate his resting place; shall be that which to learn the last trump shall awaken our WASHINGTON. Upon these let the proud fabric of freedom rest, as the rock of its basis; and as truly as has been said of the only greater institution, the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Jai Guru Dev --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: http://livinginsmallsizes.com/2009/02/13/several-maharishi- graduates- busted-for-growing-pot/ http://is.gd/jOCY
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: Smoking pot makes ya lazy and stupid, that's why society has enacted laws agin it (not that this alcohol-based society has a leg up on stupidity). These kids threw away the opportunity to really expand their consciousness through TM and, proving the point about how stupid pot makes ya, used 100x the electricity an ordinary household would use just so Sheriff John would get the message. The question recurs, how shall we fortify against it? The answer is simple. Let every American, every lover of liberty, every well wisher to his posterity, swear by the blood of the Revolution, never to violate in the least particular, the laws of the country; and never to tolerate their violation by others. As the patriots of seventy-six did to the support of the Declaration of Independence, so to the support of the Constitution and Laws, let every American pledge his life, his property, and his sacred honor;-- let every man remember that to violate the law, is to trample on the blood of his father, and to tear the character of his own, and his children's liberty. Let reverence for the laws, be breathed by every American mother, to the lisping babe, that prattles on her lap--let it be taught in schools, in seminaries, and in colleges; let it be written in Primers, spelling books, and in Almanacs;--let it be preached from the pulpit, proclaimed in legislative halls, and enforced in courts of justice. And, in short, let it become the political religion of the nation; and let the old and the young, the rich and the poor, the grave and the gay, of all sexes and tongues, and colors and conditions, sacrifice unceasingly upon its altars. While ever a state of feeling, such as this, shall universally, or even, very generally prevail throughout the nation, vain will be every effort, and fruitless every attempt, to subvert our national freedom. They were a fortress of strength; but, what invading foeman could never do, the silent artillery of time has done; the leveling of its walls. They are gone.--They were a forest of giant oaks; but the all- resistless hurricane has swept over them, and left only, here and there, a lonely trunk, despoiled of its verdure, shorn of its foliage; unshading and unshaded, to murmur in a few gentle breezes, and to combat with its mutilated limbs, a few more ruder storms, then to sink, and be no more. They were the pillars of the temple of liberty; and now, that they have crumbled away, that temple must fall, unless we, their descendants, supply their places with other pillars, hewn from the solid quarry of sober reason. Passion has helped us; but can do so no more. It will in future be our enemy. Reason, cold, calculating, unimpassioned reason, must furnish all the materials for our future support and defence.--Let those materials be moulded into general intelligence, sound morality, and in particular, a reverence for the constitution and laws: and, that we improved to the last; that we remained free to the last; that we revered his name to the last; that, during his long sleep, we permitted no hostile foot to pass over or desecrate his resting place; shall be that which to learn the last trump shall awaken our WASHINGTON. Upon these let the proud fabric of freedom rest, as the rock of its basis; and as truly as has been said of the only greater institution, the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Jai Guru Dev Like Ron Paul observed,things will have to get worse before people get the message Looks like things are going that way and still no one notices.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: Disgusting. This thread has devolved into where's the best Mexican food? I understand gallows humor, but I don't understand the caustic and haughty sniping at these poor kids who are now in a hell that cannot be imagined unless one has lived that reality too. These are our spiritual grandchildren -- they were raised in the FF village. This is not a time for whispered chuckles about these kids. Shame on anyone who's thinking these kids're going to get anything near to justice -- brevity cut No justice? Well, they'll proly get some due process of law. It's a sorry deal for the village. While I feel for the kids who are going to soon be learning about the realities of prison life in America, I do NOT feel bad about the village. I think that this is *exactly* the kind of wake up call it's been needing for a long, long time. The TM village has existed on pretense and hypocrisy for decades now, pretending to be what it was not, and hypocritically sweeping its dirty secrets under the rug. It's about time that they had to live with walking around in their cream- colored suits and Raja costumes and saris on lumpy rugs. I think it would be just *great* if this scandal led back to participants in the growing operation who are well-respected first generation members of the TM community, not just the second- and third-generation offspring, reacting to their parents' hypocrisy. I remember hearing, many years ago, about the sad fate of a woman I knew back in college. She had moved to Fairfield, toked on the TM Kool-Aid Bong, and settled down to a nice, normal life as a TM housewife. Then one day she poured gasoline on herself and lit herself on fire. And, from what I could tell, the response of the TM village was to present *her* as an embarrassment, and to sweep Yet Another Anomalous Aspect Of The ME under the rug. She got filed under the workings of karma are unfathomable, and no one whose reports on the incident I read expressed much emotion or compassion about it other than a sense of embarrassment and a wish that people like her would just go away and leave them with their illusions. The TM movement's Vedic Society is as much of a sham as that Church in Los Angeles where every- one came to Sunday services dressed up as angels and archangels, and was found to be fronting a drug operation. There is as much dirty linen in Fairfield, Iowa as there is in any town in America, or anywhere else in the world. And the sooner that the hypocrites pretending otherwise learn that, the sooner they'll come to re-entering the human race. The whole dump on pot thang here lately has been an embarrassment of Beavis and Butthead idiocy. The people preaching from their holier- than-thou towers about the evils of marijuana have universally been 1) ignorant of the facts, 2) ignorant of the long history of herb and spirituality, even in their own tradition, and 3) as mind-locked in step with dogma as 1950s Americans who believed that rock n' roll and dancing were gateway drugs to sex. (They were, but so is life.) Lighten the fuck UP, people. What, in the long run, is more debilitating? Smoking a little herb from time to time to relax, or spending tens of thousands of dollars on Ayurvedic snake oil and yagyas and Jyotish readings and The Next Big Course (the one that's *finally* going to work, and make me enlightened)? You're a *Whole Fucking Village* full of druggies. Don't you DARE look down on the ones who prefer drugs that are cheaper and less addicting and less hypocritical than your own.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
Disgusting. This thread has devolved into where's the best Mexican food? I understand gallows humor, but I don't understand the caustic and haughty sniping at these poor kids who are now in a hell that cannot be imagined unless one has lived that reality too. These are our spiritual grandchildren -- they were raised in the FF village. This is not a time for whispered chuckles about these kids. Shame on anyone who's thinking these kids're going to get anything near to justice -- brevity cut No justice? Well, they'll proly get some due process of law. there is, even now, something of ill-omen, amongst us. I mean the increasing disregard for law which pervades the country; the growing disposition to substitute the wild and furious passions, in lieu of the sober judgment of Courts; and the worse than savage mobs, for the executive ministers of justice. This disposition is awfully fearful in any community; and that it now exists in ours, though grating to our feelings to admit, it would be a violation of truth, and an insult to our intelligence, to deny.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
I do NOT feel bad about the village. Turq, not really a lot of empathy in what you write here. You haven't or don't live in FF? But the larger essay is quite perceptive of aspects of the situation here. The human nature of it is extraordinary. -FFL
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
Wow, that's a high horse you sit on and some mighty tough love. You guys have children that you've raised of your own? Been in a longterm marriage? Just wondering where you're coming from (?) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 4:11 PM, bob_brigante no_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Smoking pot makes ya lazy and stupid, that's why society has enacted laws agin it (not that this alcohol-based society has a leg up on stupidity). These kids threw away the opportunity to really expand their consciousness through TM and, proving the point about how stupid pot makes ya, used 100x the electricity an ordinary household would use just so Sheriff John would get the message. I take no joy in seeing young people choose the wrong road in life, but make no mistake, that's what they did, now they and their arrogant parents will pay the price for the wrong path. Years from now, if the fog clears from these kids' brains, they'll realize what a blessing this bust was, before their ass got shot up in some drug deal gone bad, which is a common occurrence in NoCal drug trafficking: http://www.chicoer.com/ci_11696206?source=most_emailed Bob I absolutely agree. The law is the law. This men knew what the law was and what the penalties were for violating it. No court has declared the laws these men will face unconstitutional because one interest or another caused the laws to be enacted or because one race tends to commit crimes against these laws or not. Now as far as the poor suffering parents, well these aren't kids. They are adults. Adults who it appears had parents who didn't do a good job of raising their kids. But there's no reason to fault them on that. Children have their own dharma/karma and they just happen to grow up in the house of their parents.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: and 3) as mind-locked in step with dogma as 1950s Americans who believed that rock n' roll and dancing were gateway drugs to sex. (They were, but so is life.) Scientific research has shown that most college students have smoked pot -- THEREFORE, its clear that college is a gateway to drug use. Ban colleges and universities I say! -- before we are swept up into a nation of druggies. As it has been clearly shown, a high percentage of tobacco smokers drink coffee. Clearly, irrefutably, coffee leads to tobacco smoking and death. And almost all teenage pre-marital pregnant mothers watched Sesseme Street as children. Ban that wretched show and end teen pregnancy now. And its a FACT that every president who engaged in illegal and/or immoral military incursions had a vowel as the second letter of their names. Therefor, NEVER vote for anyone with a name that has a vowel as a second letter. And of course -- every cocaine use in the 70's listened to disco music. Clearly disco music and all of its hallow bastard children prevalent today should be banned. And of course, most hard drug users first smoked pot (and drank beer) so since pot (and beer) are clearly gateway drugs, they should be forever banned -- and perpetrators shot.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: Are you sure about this happening here, Barry? I'm just asking because I'm surprised I haven't heard of it myself. Anyone know who this was? It's horrible, to put it mildly. Well yes, it was not successful. The person lives well today very much part of the larger FF meditating community. There is a lot of courage there. Things happen to people.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: On Feb 21, 2009, at 2:34 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: I remember hearing, many years ago, about the sad fate of a woman I knew back in college. She had moved to Fairfield, toked on the TM Kool-Aid Bong, and settled down to a nice, normal life as a TM housewife. Then one day she poured gasoline on herself and lit herself on fire. And, from what I could tell, the response of the TM village was to present *her* as an embarrassment, and to sweep Yet Another Anomalous Aspect Of The ME under the rug. She got filed under the workings of karma are unfathomable, and no one whose reports on the incident I read expressed much emotion or compassion about it other than a sense of embarrassment and a wish that people like her would just go away and leave them with their illusions. Are you sure about this happening here, Barry? I'm just asking because I'm surprised I haven't heard of it myself. Anyone know who this was? It's horrible, to put it mildly. I am *not* sure. I heard it on one of the TM-related forums I've been part of over the years...don't remember which one. The woman's name that I knew was Karen Hudson, but she would have had a different married name. And I have no doubt about the cover-up aspect, It's about the only thing they do well any more. The TM movement's Vedic Society is as much of a sham as that Church in Los Angeles where every- one came to Sunday services dressed up as angels and archangels, and was found to be fronting a drug operation. Hopefully they were at least making $$. There is as much dirty linen in Fairfield, Iowa as there is in any town in America, or anywhere else in the world. And the sooner that the hypocrites pretending otherwise learn that, the sooner they'll come to re-entering the human race. The whole dump on pot thang here lately has been an embarrassment of Beavis and Butthead idiocy. The people preaching from their holier- than-thou towers about the evils of marijuana have universally been 1) ignorant of the facts, 2) ignorant of the long history of herb and spirituality, even in their own tradition, and 3) as mind-locked in step with dogma as 1950s Americans who believed that rock n' roll and dancing were gateway drugs to sex. (They were, but so is life.) I find it interesting that the ones preaching the most often about the various evils in society, here, on FFL, are usually the ones who seem to have the loneliest lives. Indeed. Growing old is mandatory. Growing wise is optional. - anonymous Here, as commentary on, say, the ideal of bramacharya presented here so often by people who couldn't be lonelier if they tried as if bramacharya were an ideal that everyone should aspire to, is a photo of what is often the effect of bramacharya in spiritual traditions: http://www.measurection.com/fusionbb/attachment.php?attid/3576/ Hmmm...maybe passing judgement on others for personal choices isn't all it's cracked up to be. Lighten the fuck UP, people. What, in the long run, is more debilitating? Smoking a little herb from time to time to relax, or spending tens of thousands of dollars on Ayurvedic snake oil and yagyas and Jyotish readings and The Next Big Course (the one that's *finally* going to work, and make me enlightened)? An excellent point. Let's put it this way...the most wasted, been-smoking-every-day-since-1968-Amsterdam- pot-smoker has spent a fraction of the money supporting his habit as many people here have spent supporting their TM habits. Doing things is over-rated. Hitler did a lot of things. Yet don't we all wish he had just stayed home and gotten stoned? -- Dex, in the film The Tao of Steve
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
TurquoiseB wrote: I remember hearing, many years ago, about the sad fate of a woman I knew back in college. She had moved to Fairfield, toked on the TM Kool-Aid Bong, and settled down to a nice, normal life as a TM housewife. Then one day she poured gasoline on herself and lit herself on fire... Sal Sunshine wrote: Are you sure about this happening here, Barry? I'm just asking because I'm surprised I haven't heard of it myself. Anyone know who this was? Are you saying, Sal, that as a resident of Fairfield you never heard of a woman pouring gasoline on herself and lighting it? This would surely have made news in the Fairfield Ledger or at least it would have been mentioned in the MUM Review. Maybe Alex or Rick know about this, if so, why are they withholding information? This is just outrageous!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
TurquoiseB wrote: I am *not* sure. I heard it on one of the TM-related forums I've been part of over the years...don't remember which one. The woman's name that I knew was Karen Hudson, but she would have had a different married name... Sounds to me like someone is making stuff up and spreading rumors. So, I guess we can forget Barry being a source of accurate information. I'm sure this won't be lost on Judy - I'm surprised that she let Barry get away with these kinds of stories. Go figure. TurquoiseB wrote: I remember hearing, many years ago, about the sad fate of a woman I knew back in college. She had moved to Fairfield, toked on the TM Kool-Aid Bong, and settled down to a nice, normal life as a TM housewife. Then one day she poured gasoline on herself and lit herself on fire. And, from what I could tell, the response of the TM village was to present *her* as an embarrassment, and to sweep Yet Another Anomalous Aspect Of The ME under the rug. She got filed under the workings of karma are unfathomable, and no one whose reports on the incident I read expressed much emotion or compassion about it other than a sense of embarrassment and a wish that people like her would just go away and leave them with their illusions. Sal Sunshine wrote: Are you sure about this happening here, Barry? I'm just asking because I'm surprised I haven't heard of it myself. Anyone know who this was? It's horrible, to put it mildly.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
Then one day she poured gasoline on herself and lit herself on fire. I knew this woman personally. She did set fire to herself, but the community came to her support and she ended up being a VERY active member in terms of being at pot lucks etc. She wore clothing to cover her massive scarring. I believe the incident was from a one-time romantic calamity -- mere speculation on my part at this late date -- fuzzy memory here. Yes, I'm sure many TBers handled it by way of philosophy, but all the talk I encountered about her was a fairly compassionate view. The details of her life were known, so she couldn't easily be tossed into she's crazy and we don't have to care about her category. There but for the grace goeth you or me sez moi. I have emotions that can come up quickly and can overwhelm many of my better parts, so I can see myself in this woman. Just a matter of degree. I have had some serious devastation in my life and I didn't do physical harm to myself, but I get it, I get it, and no stone will be tossed at her by me. Nor is it something to be witty about at her expense. She has paid a huge price, any negative projections upon her couldn't possibly match what she's thought about herself. I've seen or heard about a few mental cases in FF, but I have yet to conclude that TM triggers these folks past their tipping points. The TMO policies might do that, but I still see the technique as restful and healthful in the main. To me, it's a case of whacked and against-the-wall folks who are in serious need coming to TM and hoping it'll work, but when it doesn't, like me, they must battle their own denial before they can free themselves from the cult mentality. While they are doing that, they have to do normal life and it sometimes is just too much to ask of them, and they crack. To me, the lost ones come to the warmth of the TM communal fire like the homeless move to warm cities where they can sleep outside at night. But, yes, the TMO has conspired to cover up many of these cases, and they're so practiced at it that even the murder on campus was handled instead of getting official help from outside authorities immediately to handle this crazy guy, or having the intent to honestly report what actually happens. And to me, it still is a village thing. The FF I last knew was coming into full maturity as a spiritual oasis where many cults could operate, and the people you meet at, say, Art Night, will be prepped well enough to not assume how on-or-off-the-program another person is and to be friendly, circumspect, and able to go along to get along. And in this atmosphere, I would expect that the talk on the street is very much like it is here -- some assholes, some concerned, some indifferent, some unable to imagine the inside of anyone's brain except their own. But still, the pot kids, the burned woman, the murderer, the rapist, the Beckeley-Bloomfield types, the rich -- all these are reasons to hang our heads and be sobered up about what it takes to create a community and how much wiggle room is required. Still, any chucklehead who goofing on these tragedies is perhaps the biggest reason to hang one's head about the FF image -- that we have such unfeeling bastards among us is a bell tolling for we. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: On Feb 21, 2009, at 2:34 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: I remember hearing, many years ago, about the sad fate of a woman I knew back in college. She had moved to Fairfield, toked on the TM Kool-Aid Bong, and settled down to a nice, normal life as a TM housewife. Then one day she poured gasoline on herself and lit herself on fire. And, from what I could tell, the response of the TM village was to present *her* as an embarrassment, and to sweep Yet Another Anomalous Aspect Of The ME under the rug. She got filed under the workings of karma are unfathomable, and no one whose reports on the incident I read expressed much emotion or compassion about it other than a sense of embarrassment and a wish that people like her would just go away and leave them with their illusions. Are you sure about this happening here, Barry? I'm just asking because I'm surprised I haven't heard of it myself. Anyone know who this was? It's horrible, to put it mildly. And I have no doubt about the cover-up aspect, It's about the only thing they do well any more. The TM movement's Vedic Society is as much of a sham as that Church in Los Angeles where every- one came to Sunday services dressed up as angels and archangels, and was found to be fronting a drug operation. Hopefully they were at least making $$. There is as much dirty linen in Fairfield, Iowa as there is in any town in America, or anywhere else in the world. And the sooner that the hypocrites pretending otherwise learn that, the sooner they'll come to re-entering the human race. The whole dump on pot thang here lately
[FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
So, you're saying that for years you 'covered up' for the TMO? This is outrageous! Why didn't you tell the police about someone pouring gasoline on themselves and lighting it? I've been reading TM forums for close to ten years and I've never heard anything about this incident. Are you guys making this stuff up or what? Duveyoung wrote: Then one day she poured gasoline on herself and lit herself on fire. I knew this woman personally...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Several Maharishi Graduates Busted For Growing Pot
On Feb 21, 2009, at 10:11 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Are you sure about this happening here, Barry? I'm just asking because I'm surprised I haven't heard of it myself. Anyone know who this was? It's horrible, to put it mildly. I am *not* sure. I heard it on one of the TM-related forums I've been part of over the years...don't remember which one. The woman's name that I knew was Karen Hudson, but she would have had a different married name. Very interesting, Barry...thanks. The one person I know of who did this or something very similar is named Anita...not sure if it was in FF or if she was even in the TMO at that point, it might have been when she was younger. She survived as well. Sal
