Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
On Feb 23, 2009, at 9:11 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: Curtis wrote: When India elects a Sudra as their leader they can brag too. There are no 'sudras', Curtis - you're just perpetuating the myth like you were trained to do. But in fact, almost all of India's leaders have been dark-skinned. According to friends who worked on staff at MIU for very low wages, and supposedly to get on course, i.e. pay for the TM-Sidhi course, they were treated like shudras, like lesser-evolved people, who shouldn't be touched or engaged. The idea, they felt, was that more evolved people would naturally receive the support of nature and so they were naturally more prosperous. If you lacked money to the extent that you had to (essentially) beg to get on a course or be able to hang at MIU/ meditate in the domes, you were in effect (not only a slave of sorts), an untouchable. Or at least that's the way they felt they were treated. It's an unspoken caste system in the same sense that racism can be covert and engrained without necessarily needing out loud racial slurs or comments. Perhaps we should start calling it the apaurusheya-jati?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
Vaj, that is bullshit. Plain and simple. While workers who worked to get their programs really worked hard, they sometimes got to their goal. Before MMY made them all recert. But just because some suckers got passed over they still had the kundalini supporting them. You can't say Ma was wrong. So let some steam out of the old pie hole. You're gettin old and cranky. Starting to remind me of this WW2 vet. All he talks about is how he never had the opportunity to kill a real live Germain. - Original Message - From: Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 8:59 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright On Feb 23, 2009, at 9:11 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: Curtis wrote: When India elects a Sudra as their leader they can brag too. There are no 'sudras', Curtis - you're just perpetuating the myth like you were trained to do. But in fact, almost all of India's leaders have been dark-skinned. According to friends who worked on staff at MIU for very low wages, and supposedly to get on course, i.e. pay for the TM-Sidhi course, they were treated like shudras, like lesser-evolved people, who shouldn't be touched or engaged. The idea, they felt, was that more evolved people would naturally receive the support of nature and so they were naturally more prosperous. If you lacked money to the extent that you had to (essentially) beg to get on a course or be able to hang at MIU/ meditate in the domes, you were in effect (not only a slave of sorts), an untouchable. Or at least that's the way they felt they were treated. It's an unspoken caste system in the same sense that racism can be covert and engrained without necessarily needing out loud racial slurs or comments. Perhaps we should start calling it the apaurusheya-jati?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
On Feb 23, 2009, at 10:12 AM, Kirk wrote: Vaj, that is bullshit. Plain and simple. While workers who worked to get their programs really worked hard, they sometimes got to their goal. Before MMY made them all recert. But just because some suckers got passed over they still had the kundalini supporting them. You can't say Ma was wrong. So let some steam out of the old pie hole. You're gettin old and cranky. Starting to remind me of this WW2 vet. All he talks about is how he never had the opportunity to kill a real live Germain. I didn't say they didn't get their goal. Most were able to get the sidhi course. It's how they felt they were treated. I've heard it repeatedly, so don't be so callous to discount their feelings. They were real and they felt demeaned. I'll be sure to share with them you're feelings about them being like WW II vets, as we still do talk. One was actually a Vietnam Vet.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
Don't share anyone my feelings. And you comparing them to shudras, is ludicrous. That's your feeling Bub and don't forget it. - Original Message - From: Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright On Feb 23, 2009, at 10:12 AM, Kirk wrote: Vaj, that is bullshit. Plain and simple. While workers who worked to get their programs really worked hard, they sometimes got to their goal. Before MMY made them all recert. But just because some suckers got passed over they still had the kundalini supporting them. You can't say Ma was wrong. So let some steam out of the old pie hole. You're gettin old and cranky. Starting to remind me of this WW2 vet. All he talks about is how he never had the opportunity to kill a real live Germain. I didn't say they didn't get their goal. Most were able to get the sidhi course. It's how they felt they were treated. I've heard it repeatedly, so don't be so callous to discount their feelings. They were real and they felt demeaned. I'll be sure to share with them you're feelings about them being like WW II vets, as we still do talk. One was actually a Vietnam Vet.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
On Feb 23, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Kirk wrote: Don't share anyone my feelings. And you comparing them to shudras, is ludicrous. That's your feeling Bub and don't forget it. No, it was their feelings, not mine. I was not there on staff ever.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
--- On Sat, 2/21/09, Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com wrote: From: Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 12:41 AM From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 6:33 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright Wouldn't it be wonderful to have an honest, non- blissninny biography of Maharishi, told from the same There were great moments, but there were also these moments over here that weren't so great perspective? How long will it take before one gets written? *Will* one ever get written? SSRS's biography just came out in India. Its in Hindi though. I'm very curious how its written because many of his followers, especially Indians, speak of him in these cloyingly sweet terms that I find very off-putting. Someone could put together such a book just from all the material posted on FFL. And certainly our combined experience with him could result in such a book.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
--- On Fri, 2/20/09, I am the eternal l.shad...@gmail.com wrote: From: I am the eternal l.shad...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 2:22 AM On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:10 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Vaj's posts are a lot closer to hate mail than the posts that correct his many misstatements. That's the word; hate mail ! Actually, I received a nice, friendly email from Vaj a couple of days ago. Of course he wanting something, just like Barry did when Barry sent me those unsolicited pictures of unclothed children in sexual situations a month ago. I guess Vaj is being hit on from so many sides by the junkyard dog and her friends that he'd actually stoop to attempt to be nice to me. Oh well, I'll take kindness from any place I can get it, even if it's not sincere and won't last. At least the email from Vaj wasn't like the stuff from Barry that could have wound me up in both state and federal prison had I not immediately taken out my hard drive, destroyed it, bought a new one and re-imaged it from a backup prior to receipt of the unwanted gifts. Has anyone else on FFL received unsolicited child porn from Barry? Tom, don't you think your response here is a tad extreme? Its like the time you uploaded some (legal) porno to the FFL files and then registered a complaint regarding it with Yahoo. All of you and Vaj are having a disagreement because you see Vaj as intellectually dishonest. Okay. But this response of yours is in the same category of threatening to publish embarrassing private information on people you don't like. You honestly don't think this is bit of overkill?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
--and will probably drive more hate mail Vaj's posts are a lot closer to hate mail than the posts that correct his many misstatements. That's the word; hate mail ! --Nowblowus, the hate mail is probably due to the nonsequitur one liners you so lawsonesquely strew about without truncating your posts which makes them almost a struggle to bother reading. I know don't why I continue except you define for me now the -out-of-touch-with-reality-factor which is a good thing to have somewhere in my brain in case I ever start believing tripe has turned to filet.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
Yes, Vaj loves to send hatemail to this group. -And this is lovemail?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
Has anyone else on FFL received unsolicited child porn from Barry? ---Former abuse victimes read alot into art. They have a test called Rorschach which you and a shrink might find useful.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
On Feb 20, 2009, at 6:39 AM, Peter wrote: Tom, don't you think your response here is a tad extreme? Its like the time you uploaded some (legal) porno to the FFL files and then registered a complaint regarding it with Yahoo. All of you and Vaj are having a disagreement because you see Vaj as intellectually dishonest. Okay. But this response of yours is in the same category of threatening to publish embarrassing private information on people you don't like. You honestly don't think this is bit of overkill? FWIW, I thought it was supposed to be satire. And is Eternal really our very own Tom Appalling? I think E's emails are a lot better written. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
Yes, Vaj loves to send hatemail to this group. -And this is lovemail? No, it's cultmail. Nabby is its leading practitioner. Nabby is an interesting sort. Not having met her in the flesh I lay no claim to who she really is. Could be anyone. Might be one of those advertised dimwits on matchmaker dot com for all I know, roller skating and laughing like she has a feather in her bloomers. I think I believe She's from Scotland and has vivid dreams. When I took to the internet I used to pose as female just for the fun of it. Well, it wasn't fun as you wouldn't believe how the low tenor of conversation turns asapeople think some femme is interested in them, virtually or not. So I went back to being male and not playing games with people's minds. Women have it rough. Why nabby chooses to go about acting like a horny cunt I'll never know. But chicks like that I let other people buy drinks for. As they are soon puking over your shoulder.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
On Feb 20, 2009, at 12:09 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Feb 19, 2009, at 6:16 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: Doesn't MMY need to be enlightened under TM theory? How else could he rediscover what he claimed were lost mediation techniques? I think it's understood by most reasonable and objective folks who've done a little lookin', that TM is nothing new under the sun, it's not something he's restored, in fact it's a ubiquitous form of basic meditation. You could be right, I don't know enough about the history of meditation to know, but all I am saying is that isn't the TMO's claim. The claim is rediscovery, including of the meaning of the Vedas. I think that would require enlightenment under their theory. Yeah MMY claimed to have cognized a new text which he called the Apaurusheya Bhasya of Rig Veda. Purusha means man, A-purusha, means not by a man, bhasya means commentary; so MMY has claimed to have found the divine, of non-human origin, commentary on the Rig Veda. Actually he claimed to be working on it just before he died, still many years having discovered it. It's probably more likely his spin from hanging with various Rig Veda and other pundits. In other words, it's his repackaging that he was still hobbling together. Tony Nader's 'human physiology and the Veda'--and more recently the Ramayana--seem to be offshoots of people close to MMY who were trying to spin a similar spiel to be able to get big attention from MMY. One things for certain, no legitimate Vedic scholar that I'm aware of takes it seriously. I seriously doubt we'll ever see anything in print. Yet movement TB's casually will claim that MMY is a great (or THE greatest) Vedic scholar. Funny, no one else seemed to notice. Even if it did pan out, it would be a hallmark in Indian philosophical revisionism, as MMY consistently has tried to tie older, pre-Vedic writings to the Vedas. This would most likely appeal to Brahmins, caste system advocates and right-wing religious zealots, as it's a history essentially re-written for them: the Vedic supremacists. During the web seminar I've contacted Meera Nanda, an expert in pseudo-Vedic teachings and I'm sure she'd love to answer any pointed questions on this topic. Esp. since she considers the TM org a or the primary promoter of Vedic pseudo- history and science. And rediscover and correct Ayurveda? Or, as the TMO says in information I was reading recently: for the total significance of its theory and practice, and organized it in the form of a complete science of consciousness. Maharishi's Vedic Science includes the restoration of the ancient Vedic system of health care, which offers a science and technology for unfolding perfection in life, using methods that are completely free from harmful side effects. This is particularly incorrect in regards to Ayurveda, which he diluted, although he did help popularize it. Dr. Pete tells an interesting story of a Vaidya or scholar that came and gave a lecture on Ayurveda at MIU IIRC and later when the tapes were made, they edited out so much of what the speakers lecture said that didn't jive with official movement think that it no longer even resembled what the guy was actually saying! Interesting. I don't see how MMY could have any significant background on Ayurveda. I doubt his background on the Vedas too. The claim that Maharishi completely restored the thousands of years-old scattered Vedic Literature . . . is more than a bit much. He's claiming to have unraveled the underlying code for all the 40 some systems of Vedic sciences, as contained within the Rig Veda. IOW, Rig Veda is the seed text for the unfoldment of all these other Vedic sciences. Yet strangely, he relies on others he pays to come consult with him for this supposedly inspired or re-revealed knowledge. And of course no one I know has ever seen this alleged divinely inspired text, although it was used as a carrot for years (decades actually).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
--- On Fri, 2/20/09, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com wrote: From: curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 1:06 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: Even if it did pan out, it would be a hallmark in Indian philosophical revisionism, as MMY consistently has tried to tie older, pre-Vedic writings to the Vedas. This would most likely appeal to Brahmins, caste system advocates and right-wing religious zealots, as it's a history essentially re-written for them: the Vedic supremacists. It is such weird irony that it was the baby boomer hippies who made him famous when his views were so conservative and in many cases represented the opposite of the egalitarian hippie movement. And to hear apologists for the the caste system in the movement is a real disgrace to the progressive values of the best thinkers of our generation. (Oops I was one of THEM!) Ginsberg sniffed it out early on. It took most of us longer. Maharishi was not cool. Simple as that. Maharishi was transcendentally cool, very cool indeed that way. On Feb 20, 2009, at 12:09 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Feb 19, 2009, at 6:16 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: Doesn't MMY need to be enlightened under TM theory? How else could he rediscover what he claimed were lost mediation techniques? I think it's understood by most reasonable and objective folks who've done a little lookin', that TM is nothing new under the sun, it's not something he's restored, in fact it's a ubiquitous form of basic meditation. You could be right, I don't know enough about the history of meditation to know, but all I am saying is that isn't the TMO's claim. The claim is rediscovery, including of the meaning of the Vedas. I think that would require enlightenment under their theory. Yeah MMY claimed to have cognized a new text which he called the Apaurusheya Bhasya of Rig Veda. Purusha means man, A-purusha, means not by a man, bhasya means commentary; so MMY has claimed to have found the divine, of non-human origin, commentary on the Rig Veda. Actually he claimed to be working on it just before he died, still many years having discovered it. It's probably more likely his spin from hanging with various Rig Veda and other pundits. In other words, it's his repackaging that he was still hobbling together. Tony Nader's 'human physiology and the Veda'--and more recently the Ramayana--seem to be offshoots of people close to MMY who were trying to spin a similar spiel to be able to get big attention from MMY. One things for certain, no legitimate Vedic scholar that I'm aware of takes it seriously. I seriously doubt we'll ever see anything in print. Yet movement TB's casually will claim that MMY is a great (or THE greatest) Vedic scholar. Funny, no one else seemed to notice. Even if it did pan out, it would be a hallmark in Indian philosophical revisionism, as MMY consistently has tried to tie older, pre-Vedic writings to the Vedas. This would most likely appeal to Brahmins, caste system advocates and right-wing religious zealots, as it's a history essentially re-written for them: the Vedic supremacists. During the web seminar I've contacted Meera Nanda, an expert in pseudo-Vedic teachings and I'm sure she'd love to answer any pointed questions on this topic. Esp. since she considers the TM org a or the primary promoter of Vedic pseudo- history and science. And rediscover and correct Ayurveda? Or, as the TMO says in information I was reading recently: for the total significance of its theory and practice, and organized it in the form of a complete science of consciousness. Maharishi's Vedic Science includes the restoration of the ancient Vedic system of health care, which offers a science and technology for unfolding perfection in life, using methods that are completely free from harmful side effects. This is particularly incorrect in regards to Ayurveda, which he diluted, although he did help popularize it. Dr. Pete tells an interesting story of a Vaidya or scholar that came and gave a lecture on Ayurveda at MIU IIRC and later when the tapes were made, they edited out so much of what the speakers lecture said that didn't jive with official movement think that it no longer even resembled what the guy was actually saying! Interesting. I don't see how MMY could have any significant background on Ayurveda. I doubt his background on the Vedas too
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
Apurushaya Bhashya means 'uncreated commentary'.' It wasn't a text, and it merely has to do with each mandala having within itself 100 of life fullness with first suktam of each mandala having 100 percent wholeness, then symmertry breaking into more and more emptiness until at the half way pont of the mandala it has become 50 % wholeness, and last suktam being 0% laws of nature. Thus each opposite suktam in mandala compliments the one other one opposing. As to what that has to do with anything you have to ask JH and BM That's Apaurushayabhashya according to M. Original Message - From: Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright On Feb 20, 2009, at 12:09 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Feb 19, 2009, at 6:16 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: Doesn't MMY need to be enlightened under TM theory? How else could he rediscover what he claimed were lost mediation techniques? I think it's understood by most reasonable and objective folks who've done a little lookin', that TM is nothing new under the sun, it's not something he's restored, in fact it's a ubiquitous form of basic meditation. You could be right, I don't know enough about the history of meditation to know, but all I am saying is that isn't the TMO's claim. The claim is rediscovery, including of the meaning of the Vedas. I think that would require enlightenment under their theory. Yeah MMY claimed to have cognized a new text which he called the Apaurusheya Bhasya of Rig Veda. Purusha means man, A-purusha, means not by a man, bhasya means commentary; so MMY has claimed to have found the divine, of non-human origin, commentary on the Rig Veda. Actually he claimed to be working on it just before he died, still many years having discovered it. It's probably more likely his spin from hanging with various Rig Veda and other pundits. In other words, it's his repackaging that he was still hobbling together. Tony Nader's 'human physiology and the Veda'--and more recently the Ramayana--seem to be offshoots of people close to MMY who were trying to spin a similar spiel to be able to get big attention from MMY. One things for certain, no legitimate Vedic scholar that I'm aware of takes it seriously. I seriously doubt we'll ever see anything in print. Yet movement TB's casually will claim that MMY is a great (or THE greatest) Vedic scholar. Funny, no one else seemed to notice. Even if it did pan out, it would be a hallmark in Indian philosophical revisionism, as MMY consistently has tried to tie older, pre-Vedic writings to the Vedas. This would most likely appeal to Brahmins, caste system advocates and right-wing religious zealots, as it's a history essentially re-written for them: the Vedic supremacists. During the web seminar I've contacted Meera Nanda, an expert in pseudo-Vedic teachings and I'm sure she'd love to answer any pointed questions on this topic. Esp. since she considers the TM org a or the primary promoter of Vedic pseudo- history and science. And rediscover and correct Ayurveda? Or, as the TMO says in information I was reading recently: for the total significance of its theory and practice, and organized it in the form of a complete science of consciousness. Maharishi's Vedic Science includes the restoration of the ancient Vedic system of health care, which offers a science and technology for unfolding perfection in life, using methods that are completely free from harmful side effects. This is particularly incorrect in regards to Ayurveda, which he diluted, although he did help popularize it. Dr. Pete tells an interesting story of a Vaidya or scholar that came and gave a lecture on Ayurveda at MIU IIRC and later when the tapes were made, they edited out so much of what the speakers lecture said that didn't jive with official movement think that it no longer even resembled what the guy was actually saying! Interesting. I don't see how MMY could have any significant background on Ayurveda. I doubt his background on the Vedas too. The claim that Maharishi completely restored the thousands of years-old scattered Vedic Literature . . . is more than a bit much. He's claiming to have unraveled the underlying code for all the 40 some systems of Vedic sciences, as contained within the Rig Veda. IOW, Rig Veda is the seed text for the unfoldment of all these other Vedic sciences. Yet strangely, he relies on others he pays to come consult with him for this supposedly inspired or re-revealed knowledge. And of course no one I know has ever seen this alleged divinely inspired text, although it was used as a carrot for years (decades actually).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
On Feb 20, 2009, at 1:44 PM, Kirk wrote: Apurushaya Bhashya means 'uncreated commentary'.' It wasn't a text, and it merely has to do with each mandala having within itself 100 of life fullness with first suktam of each mandala having 100 percent wholeness, then symmertry breaking into more and more emptiness until at the half way pont of the mandala it has become 50 % wholeness, and last suktam being 0% laws of nature. Thus each opposite suktam in mandala compliments the one other one opposing. As to what that has to do with anything you have to ask JH and BM That's Apaurushayabhashya according to M. That is the impression you get listening to Maharishi Vedic Science. Uncreated though means uncreated by human hands, i.e. divinely inspired, typically heard (sruti) or seen (RS). Rishis supposedly can (nondually) see this. An example of the an Apaurusheya text, is the Rig Veda itself, it is uncreated by human hands, but, nonetheless it is a written text, passed on orally. So (supposedly) MMY was working on writing this down for many years. There have been numerous references over the years of him writing or working on this. Right before he died, the press releases said something to the effect 'his work was done' and he was retiring 'to work on his commentary of Rig Veda' (i.e. his apaurusheya bhasya). This is interesting to me, since it is and was the big carrot. If you're a rishi truly, you reveal texts of ultimate truths of some kind, if you're a great, maha, rishi, you damn well better produce something! So to keep that illusion in place--my impression is--that this was intimated right up to the very end. Put it this way: I ain't holdin' my breath for a copy. Although I am still wondering in Raja Naders book on the Ramayana and human physiology who gets the anus. You can be sure once if it's ever translated into Hindi some Indian family's going to be mighty pissed. So this is what Ruth is referring to as well: it's consistently been hinted at all the Vedic sciences had been re-intuited by MMY-as- rishi. This is a common TB belief. However I wouldn't be surprised, now that he has passed, that they might back off on this, unless an actual comment does appear. Then, if it does, it will be sold at a course that will cost so much, you'll have to take out a second (or third) mortgage.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:22 PM, ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: And to hear apologists for the the caste system in the movement is a real disgrace to the progressive values of the best thinkers of our generation. (Oops I was one of THEM!) My TB friends every once in a while mention something positive about caste systems. Things like the value of reducing the stress of having to find your place in the world. Or the value of having fathers pass on knowledge to their sons. Somehow, women seem to be left out. :) Despite the many negative things people in the West have to say about those who believe in Islam, if you listen very carefully to Muslims you can hear the difference between the way Muslim women are regarded versus the way Hindu women are regarded. In Islam, the husband to be provides the dowry. The dowry is in effect the divorce settlement and part of the inheritance from the marriage. The children, more to the son(s), inherit the estate and the son(s) support the mother. In the Hindu tradition, the wife to be must provide the dowry. I've always found the very fact that the wife must provide the dowry as quite a put down of women. I am not worthy to be your wife, so here's some wealth to ease the blow of marrying me.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
Ginsberg sniffed it out early on. It took most of us longer. Maharishi was not cool. Simple as that. Maharishi was transcendentally cool, very cool indeed that way. --As a world figure, if the world hadn't coughed up its sleve at that moment, Maharishi came out with his political emphasis at the end of his days. I would call it somewhat misguided. Especially regarding democracy which simply must go on. But he dichotomized industrialization and satan with the West and placid nature and goodness with the East. He cared to preserve Eastern tradition so as to preserve nature and peace of mind. I cannot blame him for that. I think he didn't care for beurocracy except for it to trap itself. He allowed himself to not one moment of his life succumb to worldly courts or judgement. Or the judgements of anyone including all the advice of his movement inner circle. he kept them humble and without the full picture. I am sure really somewhere, maybe in the heart of a Varma the entire scenario glows like a Bollywood billboard, something like Maharishi and Varms clan restablish all Bharat as home of Eternal Dharma and they charge really big Western bucks for their services which the more they take over small villages may grow until they get some world respect. You see he saw the market for pundit services world wide, and how they couldn't do much harm really. He made Veda a word known to many which itself is dharmic to his mind because it got Indians also to respect themselves. Because he left it in Krishna's hands. As he finally said, 'nature will always balance adharma with dharma.' He knew he left much incomplete, and that the real future of TMO was in the East for easterner, who could in fact follow the ashtangayogapatanjali.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
Put it this way: I ain't holdin' my breath for a copy. Although I am still wondering in Raja Naders book on the Ramayana and human physiology who gets the anus. You can be sure once if it's ever translated into Hindi some Indian family's going to be mighty pissed. ---Haha. that was funny.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 6:33 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright Wouldn't it be wonderful to have an honest, non- blissninny biography of Maharishi, told from the same There were great moments, but there were also these moments over here that weren't so great perspective? How long will it take before one gets written? *Will* one ever get written? Someone could put together such a book just from all the material posted on FFL. And certainly our combined experience with him could result in such a book.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
On Feb 19, 2009, at 1:57 PM, BillyG. wrote: No, an actual yogi, as in an practitioner and realizer of yoga- darshana as opposed to someone without any of the aforementioned, but nonetheless promotes him or herself as a yogi. MMY never claimed to be enlightened, if anything he suggested otherwise when he made the comment that even a Doctor who was sick could prescribe medicine for a sick person, paraphrased. The TM mythos is filled with the tacit implication or even insistence that MMY was fully enlightened. In fact during his death ceremonies they kept repeating that he wasn't just enlightened, but the most enlightened rishi of all yugas! Even I am a Yogi, only because I meditate. It's really a generic term and he certainly NEVER said he was a Guru or a Sat-Guru, he's offering *Yoga-lite for modernity*, the only Yoga modernity is capable of getting any benefit from, at its present state of evolution. I think in the context you're speaking you mean a *realized* Yogi, or Jivan Mukti, yes? When someone is given (or in this case takes) a title, as per the previous description by the Dalai Lama on the qualifications of a teacher which flipped everyone out so much, they know the texts as lineally taught and the states of consciousness, all the meditative experiences, that go along with it. Because they possess both relative and experiential knowledge, they can authentically teach (i.e. not just make things up as they go along or stumble through things). In many cases it also indicates that they've received certain initiations, depending on your tradition, what that means might vary. Then the student is left with both authentic experiential knowledge of yoga-vidya and the texts to jog their own memories and a way to pass it on. One case and point brought this home very clearly just recently. Someone had posted links to old lectures of MMY. One was on mantra from the Rishikesh days. So I listened to them to see how they were. And the guy had no idea how to answer. Very nervous with much nervous laughter. MMY biographer Paul Mason later described it and I thought how refreshing it was that someone else had the exact same impression. Here I was expecting some great explanations, but not so. Of course I've already brought up the asana course thing--they were written by a gym teacher. These are very touchy things to even mention here (apparently)--and will probably drive more hate mail--but it's this type of thing I was referring to.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: The TM mythos is filled with the tacit implication or even insistence that MMY was fully enlightened. In fact during his death ceremonies they kept repeating that he wasn't just enlightened, but the most enlightened rishi of all yugas! Yeah, but could he boogie? Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
On Feb 19, 2009, at 6:16 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: The TM mythos is filled with the tacit implication or even insistence that MMY was fully enlightened. In fact during his death ceremonies they kept repeating that he wasn't just enlightened, but the most enlightened rishi of all yugas! Doesn't MMY need to be enlightened under TM theory? How else could he rediscover what he claimed were lost mediation techniques? I think it's understood by most reasonable and objective folks who've done a little lookin', that TM is nothing new under the sun, it's not something he's restored, in fact it's a ubiquitous form of basic meditation. There are still many people who will repeat, matter-a-factly, that TM is a form of Vedic meditation, but nothing could be farther from the truth. Movement representatives will still parrot this obviously false information. Most of them probably either aren't aware of the fact (we were always told NOT to investigate the Vedas or Vedic texts on our own, as it would just confuse us) or if they are, they're afraid to go against what the founder said or they are out-and-out TB's. And rediscover and correct Ayurveda? Or, as the TMO says in information I was reading recently: Maharishi completely restored the thousands of years-old scattered Vedic Literature for the total significance of its theory and practice, and organized it in the form of a complete science of consciousness. Maharishi's Vedic Science includes the restoration of the ancient Vedic system of health care, which offers a science and technology for unfolding perfection in life, using methods that are completely free from harmful side effects. This is particularly incorrect in regards to Ayurveda, which he diluted, although he did help popularize it. Dr. Pete tells an interesting story of a Vaidya or scholar that came and gave a lecture on Ayurveda at MIU IIRC and later when the tapes were made, they edited out so much of what the speakers lecture said that didn't jive with official movement think that it no longer even resembled what the guy was actually saying! Vaj, I take it that you are saying that MMY is not a Yogi under the applicable traditions. I don't think anyone really disputes that. Oh my heavens Ruth, prepare to be stoned! He was a yogi who lived in the Valley of the Saints and then came to the land of mud to bring to TM to the world, based on a recurring thought he kept having while trying to meditate. Actually one of the Shankaracharya's of Jyotir Math IIRC and a fellow student of SBS has come out and said that MMY was not trained as a yogi. One of the few things that does not bother me about MMY is the breaking from tradition, going from being a secretary to a teacher. If someone feels that they have something of value to teach, fine by me, even if they are not in the right caste or do not have the right background. However, it is of relevance in evaluating his educational background on topics where he professed knowledge, such as asanas or the siddhis or vedic science. And assuming titles. How do you feel when someone who's not a physicians calls themselves a doctor (and infers they are a medical doctor). When it comes to mantra yoga, mantras can be authentically given by puja. But there's a bit more to mantra yoga than what we were lead to believe. I have never been clear on how he came up with transcendental meditation, i.e., the routine and the mantras. What did he say about it? The party line is he got them from Swami Brahmananda. The only problems with that is that Swami Brahmananda's oral teachings are in opposition to what MMY taught, although MMY does pepper his teachings with bits and pieces of authentic information and wisdom, most of which is well known by spiritual Indians. One of his most interesting faux pas is the claim that other meditation techniques have traditionally taught some form of forced concentration, meditation that involves straining. It's a red herring-- of course having read or heard that, you're almost afraid to try anything else! Here's the whole spiel, which is easily refutable as hype and posturing, but it's still a pretty entertaining read: http://tinyurl.com/34bras By the process of comparing his own direct experience of the actual goal of meditation with the common understanding then available, it became clear to Maharishi that the common idea of what meditation was supposed to be was in fact a complete distortion of the original meaning of the ancient procedure. Procedures of concentration or of forcing the mind to be free of content, with or without the use of a sensory medium such as an auditory or visual focus, seemed to him to lead away from, rather than toward, the desired result. At every stage of experimentation, Maharishi held to the guideline given him by his master that maximum
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
On Feb 19, 2009, at 6:16 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: The TM mythos is filled with the tacit implication or even insistence that MMY was fully enlightened. In fact during his death ceremonies they kept repeating that he wasn't just enlightened, but the most enlightened rishi of all yugas! Doesn't MMY need to be enlightened under TM theory? How else could he rediscover what he claimed were lost mediation techniques? I think it's understood by most reasonable and objective folks who've done a little lookin', that TM is nothing new under the sun, it's not something he's restored, in fact it's a ubiquitous form of basic meditation. There are still many people who will repeat, matter-a-factly, that TM is a form of Vedic meditation, but nothing could be farther from the truth. Movement representatives will still parrot this obviously false information. Most of them probably either aren't aware of the fact (we were always told NOT to investigate the Vedas or Vedic texts on our own, as it would just confuse us) or if they are, they're afraid to go against what the founder said or they are out-and-out TB's. And rediscover and correct Ayurveda? Or, as the TMO says in information I was reading recently: Maharishi completely restored the thousands of years-old scattered Vedic Literature for the total significance of its theory and practice, and organized it in the form of a complete science of consciousness. Maharishi's Vedic Science includes the restoration of the ancient Vedic system of health care, which offers a science and technology for unfolding perfection in life, using methods that are completely free from harmful side effects. This is particularly incorrect in regards to Ayurveda, which he diluted, although he did help popularize it. Dr. Pete tells an interesting story of a Vaidya or scholar that came and gave a lecture on Ayurveda at MIU IIRC and later when the tapes were made, they edited out so much of what the speakers lecture said that didn't jive with official movement think that it no longer even resembled what the guy was actually saying! Vaj, I take it that you are saying that MMY is not a Yogi under the applicable traditions. I don't think anyone really disputes that. Oh my heavens Ruth, prepare to be stoned! He was a yogi who lived in the Valley of the Saints and then came to the land of mud to bring to TM to the world, based on a recurring thought he kept having while trying to meditate. Actually one of the Shankaracharya's of Jyotir Math IIRC and a fellow student of SBS has come out and said that MMY was not trained as a yogi. One of the few things that does not bother me about MMY is the breaking from tradition, going from being a secretary to a teacher. If someone feels that they have something of value to teach, fine by me, even if they are not in the right caste or do not have the right background. However, it is of relevance in evaluating his educational background on topics where he professed knowledge, such as asanas or the siddhis or vedic science. And assuming titles. How do you feel when someone who's not a physicians calls themselves a doctor (and infers they are a medical doctor). When it comes to mantra yoga, mantras can be authentically given by puja. But there's a bit more to mantra yoga than what we were lead to believe. I have never been clear on how he came up with transcendental meditation, i.e., the routine and the mantras. What did he say about it? The party line is he got them from Swami Brahmananda. The only problems with that is that Swami Brahmananda's oral teachings are in opposition to what MMY taught, although MMY does pepper his teachings with bits and pieces of authentic information and wisdom, most of which is well known by spiritual Indians. One of his most interesting faux pas is the claim that other meditation techniques have traditionally taught some form of forced concentration, meditation that involves straining. It's a red herring-- of course having read or heard that, you're almost afraid to try anything else! Here's the whole spiel, which is easily refutable as hype and posturing, but it's still a pretty entertaining read: http://tinyurl.com/34bras By the process of comparing his own direct experience of the actual goal of meditation with the common understanding then available, it became clear to Maharishi that the common idea of what meditation was supposed to be was in fact a complete distortion of the original meaning of the ancient procedure. Procedures of concentration or of forcing the mind to be free of content, with or without the use of a sensory medium such as an auditory or visual focus, seemed to him to lead away from, rather than toward, the desired result. At every stage of experimentation, Maharishi held to the guideline given him by his master that maximum
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
You all should worship at the lotus feet of Sri Vaj because he is delightfully squeezing-out the last of your samskaras and is actually your Sat Guru. --- On Thu, 2/19/09, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 7:57 PM exactly. he thinks the 12 of us who have called him on his BS are upset and hateful towards him. nothing could be further from the truth. we think he is an arrogant little jerk parading around like some great teacher, and trashing the Maharishi and TM in the process. he is a delusional little fellow who lives in his head, thinking as he said that only he knows the truth, and the rest of us are ignorant fools - really pathetic stuff. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: snip When someone is given (or in this case takes) a title, as per the previous description by the Dalai Lama on the qualifications of a teacher which flipped everyone out so much, In fact, as Vaj knows, *nobody* was flipped out by the Dalai Lama's description, or disturbed by it in the slightest. Some of us were annoyed at the way Vaj tried to use it to dump on MMY. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj the honest and forthright
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:10 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: Vaj's posts are a lot closer to hate mail than the posts that correct his many misstatements. That's the word; hate mail ! Actually, I received a nice, friendly email from Vaj a couple of days ago. Of course he wanting something, just like Barry did when Barry sent me those unsolicited pictures of unclothed children in sexual situations a month ago. I guess Vaj is being hit on from so many sides by the junkyard dog and her friends that he'd actually stoop to attempt to be nice to me. Oh well, I'll take kindness from any place I can get it, even if it's not sincere and won't last. At least the email from Vaj wasn't like the stuff from Barry that could have wound me up in both state and federal prison had I not immediately taken out my hard drive, destroyed it, bought a new one and re-imaged it from a backup prior to receipt of the unwanted gifts. Has anyone else on FFL received unsolicited child porn from Barry?
