Re: [FivCats] I need placement help for Domino
what's with this 'wet food increases tartar and placque' statement ? and where is that woman her "sanctuary" in westchester? that place sounds to me like anther angel's wings in the making situation. can we find out where that house is and ask to have it investigated? even if just by another rescue so that in case it is okay rather than reporting her first to aspca who would remove animals because she's over the legal limit. barbara - Original Message - From: Hideyo Yamamoto To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 7:09 PM Subject: FW: [FivCats] I need placement help for Domino Please allow me to cross post this in case you can help- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of siberskiiSent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 6:32 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [FivCats] I need placement help for Domino Some of you may remember me from last month. I have MS and now Domino has had 2 Western blots (the 2d was just done at Cornell), both with FIV+ results. Domino has been a strictly indoor cat, has a dog companion (our Golden), my kids and us. She only eats Nutro dry food, which is probably why her teeth and gums are in such good shape. I have read with interest the various postings here re: people with Lupus, HIV+ etc., who have FIV+ cats. The bottom line is that for those of us who are immune-compromised, there are no definitive answers about our risks with FIV+ cats. Joel posted here a little while ago about the spread of bacteria between people and cats; others have written about cat scratch disease being transmitted to humans. Unless you are immune compromsed, no one really can tell the those of us who are, whether it's worth the risk to keep an FIV+ cat around or not, or whether there's a risk at all. It's a complete gamble.I previously posted that I am not willing to take the gamble, not with my health. Too many doctors have been wrong about my disease, its progression, the drugs I've taken for MS their side effects; I can't take the word of fellow kitty-lovers about FIV+ if my own human docs, the two vets I've seen the Cornell Feline Health Clinic have question marks about this. So yes, I decided that I needed to place Domino elsewhere for both our sakes.I contacted the rescue group where we got Domino. They connected me to a lady nearby, in Westchester County, NY where I live. She has 17 FIV+ cats. Eight are upstairs with a dominant female, 9 are downstairs in runs or cages because they either spray or are too timid to use their litter boxes (at least acc to the lady). She feeds them all a little wet food to keep them "hydrated" (what happened to water?), which we all know increases tarter and plaque, as well as dry food. She has told me that many of her cats have had theirteeth pulled, and that some are completely toothless. She also told me that she has litter boxes all over the house, that some cats sleep on her bed, on pillows or selsewhere, and that she keeps mountans of amoxicillin around. She also has two small gogs plus a German Shepherd. She became angry when I asked if I could inspect the premises, telling me that I was being insulting to her, and she said that the only thing I could see or do at her house (which I can't, since her house isn't accessible) would be to put Domino in what she described as a large dog-sized cage in the kitchen to say goodbye. Then Domino would remain in the cage for a full month while the other cats got used to her and vice versa. Apart from my discompfort with all the above, it seems only logical to me that with so many FIV+ cats around, the chances of spreading illness, viruses and bacteria increases exponentially, thereby increasing the rish to all the cats. Needless to say, I am not inclined to place Domino with this lady.But I need to place Domino somewhere - not in a foster home, not with a resue group or a shelter, but in a permanent home where she will be safe and happy without zillions of other cats around who might scare, intimidate or weaken her. I have reactivated my yahoo email, because I know that some of you were trying to get back to me last month but my yahoo e-mail got loused up somehow and the e-mails bounced. I would be most grateful if anyone here would be willing to take in Domino, age 1 1/2, black tuxedo cat with greenish eyes, asymptomatic now, companionable but not an "in your face" cat, loves water, especially out of people glasses with ice! and likes her ears rubbed. If anyone is relatively close to us, and would allow my daughters to call for the first few months or whatever to check on how Domino's doing, since they're heart-broken too, maybe even more than me, I'd appreciate hearing from you.Gratefuly and
Re: George update - part II
WONDERFUL WONDERFUL WONDERFUL! Congrats! Gloria On Jun 20, 2005, at 12:23 PM, Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: Thank you SOOO much everyone for sending George and myself a positive energy and prayer!! I finally CAUGHT George last night – I tell you it was one of the most scary things I had to do (emotional wise). I knew that I was not going to be given a second chance if I messed it up, but I also did not want to regret by not trying since I did not know how long he was going to come see me regularly like he has been for the past two weeks, which has been a miracle to me as well. Anyway, I finally caught him in a fish net, and it was not a pretty site – he got all tangled in a net and I had a very difficult time to transfer him from the net to a dog trap – I had to tear up all the net to get him out - but no matter how difficult it was, I was so determined not to mess it up – I kept apologizing to George about scaring him like this while I was doing it – poor baby, his mouth was bleeding from the net – I felt so bad – but I somehow he knew that I was doing so to help him (because he did not bite me (and he so could have), and let me scratch his head during this trauma- He is in a crate right now, he ate all the food I gave to him last night (chicken with broth) and even ate some dry food, too – I was very glad, because some feral cats I rescue usually don’t eat for at least 24 hour or so due to the stress – I am planning to take him in to a vet soon, am not sure if I should have them anesthetize him for a brief time so that they can draw a blood from him and check him out thoroughly (I hate to do that to him), or try to hold him without anesthesia which also can be stressful. He is not neutered yet, but I would like to wait until his health recovers and I know what we are dealing with before I have him go though the surgery. I also let Squeaky out from a crate (she is the one who has been tested negative, positive, equivocal, and indeterminate and all that stuff on FIV test since March) – she was in a crate for so long, I couldn’t do it to her anymore – I promised her a good life when I re-trapped her after my neighbor dumped, and I feel like I was not keeping my promise to her though I only mean to keep her in a crate for a very short amount of time, and I did not expect this test results back that way for that long – anyway, she IS finally OUT of a crate – when I did, I cried so hard, I did not know why, but the tears couldn’t stop falling – I guess I was glad that she was finally out - she is very cute, she still goes back to a crate to sleep as she feels safe there – but I am leaving the door open so that she can go back and forth if she wants to – this morning I found her on the bed with me, as soon as she saw me wake, she freaked out and jumped down… Please pray that George’s health will only get better going forward! Thank you again everyone for your support! Hideyo
George
Such good news Gloria for George and the otherkittie who has just been released from her cage and tremendous progress that she got on the bed with you even though she freaked when you woke up and moved - she must know you are not a threat. They'll soon learn that you just want to care for them and no doubt take advantage of that just as mine are doing. Going through this tough time with Bramble has meant lots of care and tlc and he has figured this out I think. He now refuses to eat anything much other than good quality cooked chicken slicesbeing hand fed to him too. Well at least he's eating even if it is costing a small fortune. Minstrel and Buddy have also figured this out and keeping coming toask for a piece instead of eating their own so i have to take extra just in case. Michelle, Bramble, Buddy Minstrel
Re: Re: [FivCats] I need placement help for Domino
The plaque and tartar misinformation is from the 70's and actually applied to dogs more than cats - dogs chew differently than cats. Many feline vets now seem to believe the carbs in dry food have caused the increase in gingivitis cases. From: Barbara Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/06/21 Tue AM 09:02:57 EDT To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [FivCats] I need placement help for Domino what's with this 'wet food increases tartar and placque' statement ? and where is that woman her sanctuary in westchester? that place sounds to me like anther angel's wings in the making situation. can we find out where that house is and ask to have it investigated? even if just by another rescue so that in case it is okay rather than reporting her first to aspca who would remove animals because she's over the legal limit. barbara - Original Message - From: Hideyo Yamamoto To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 7:09 PM Subject: FW: [FivCats] I need placement help for Domino Please allow me to cross post this in case you can help- -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of siberskii Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 6:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FivCats] I need placement help for Domino Some of you may remember me from last month. I have MS and now Domino has had 2 Western blots (the 2d was just done at Cornell), both with FIV+ results. Domino has been a strictly indoor cat, has a dog companion (our Golden), my kids and us. She only eats Nutro dry food, which is probably why her teeth and gums are in such good shape. I have read with interest the various postings here re: people with Lupus, HIV+ etc., who have FIV+ cats. The bottom line is that for those of us who are immune-compromised, there are no definitive answers about our risks with FIV+ cats. Joel posted here a little while ago about the spread of bacteria between people and cats; others have written about cat scratch disease being transmitted to humans. Unless you are immune compromsed, no one really can tell the those of us who are, whether it's worth the risk to keep an FIV+ cat around or not, or whether there's a risk at all. It's a complete gamble. I previously posted that I am not willing to take the gamble, not with my health. Too many doctors have been wrong about my disease, its progression, the drugs I've taken for MS their side effects; I can't take the word of fellow kitty-lovers about FIV+ if my own human docs, the two vets I've seen the Cornell Feline Health Clinic have question marks about this. So yes, I decided that I needed to place Domino elsewhere for both our sakes. I contacted the rescue group where we got Domino. They connected me to a lady nearby, in Westchester County, NY where I live. She has 17 FIV+ cats. Eight are upstairs with a dominant female, 9 are downstairs in runs or cages because they either spray or are too timid to use their litter boxes (at least acc to the lady). She feeds them all a little wet food to keep them hydrated (what happened to water?), which we all know increases tarter and plaque, as well as dry food. She has told me that many of her cats have had theirteeth pulled, and that some are completely toothless. She also told me that she has litter boxes all over the house, that some cats sleep on her bed, on pillows or selsewhere, and that she keeps mountans of amoxicillin around. She also has two small gogs plus a German Shepherd. She became angry when I asked if I could inspect the premises, telling me that I was being insulting to her, and she said that the only thing I could see or do at her house (which I can't, since her house isn't accessible) would be to put Domino in what she described as a large dog-sized cage in the kitchen to say goodbye. Then Domino would remain in the cage for a full month while the other cats got used to her and vice versa. Apart from my discompfort with all the above, it seems only logical to me that with so many FIV+ cats around, the chances of spreading illness, viruses and bacteria increases exponentially, thereby increasing the rish to all the cats. Needless to say, I am not inclined to place Domino with this lady. But I need to place Domino somewhere - not in a foster home, not with a resue group or a shelter, but in a permanent home where she will be safe and happy without zillions of other cats around who might scare, intimidate or weaken her. I have reactivated my yahoo email, because I know that some of you were trying to get back to me last month but my yahoo e-mail got loused up somehow and the e-mails bounced. I
For Michelle re Bramble RE: George
Title: Message Michelle--I'm sure you already know this, but thought I'd touch base anyway--I had to give all my Felv cats broiled chicken for weeks (there was no way the others were going to sit and watch the genuine "patient" enjoy his without getting in on the act themselves.) (I hear you re the $$$ by the way---ouch!) The vet told me (2 weeks later, and only after I asked her even tho it was her that prescribed the chicken for Snoball's diarrhea in the first place!) that chicken alone did not supply their needs and I should add a supplement. Just thought I should mention it. Glad to hear Bramble is thoroughly enjoying life! All best wishes forthe little sweetheart'scontinuing recovery---Kerry -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:15 AMTo: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: George Such good news Gloria for George and the otherkittie who has just been released from her cage and tremendous progress that she got on the bed with you even though she freaked when you woke up and moved - she must know you are not a threat. They'll soon learn that you just want to care for them and no doubt take advantage of that just as mine are doing. Going through this tough time with Bramble has meant lots of care and tlc and he has figured this out I think. He now refuses to eat anything much other than good quality cooked chicken slicesbeing hand fed to him too. Well at least he's eating even if it is costing a small fortune. Minstrel and Buddy have also figured this out and keeping coming toask for a piece instead of eating their own so i have to take extra just in case. Michelle, Bramble, Buddy MinstrelMayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP is moving our Chicago office to the Hyatt Center, 71 S. Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois 60606. Email addresses, telephone numbers, and facsimile numbers remain unchanged. For more information, click the link below or copy / paste the link into the address bar of your Web browser: http://www.mayerbrownrowe.com/chicago/move.asp Please Note: Some administrative functions will be located at 230 S. LaSalle, Chicago IL, 60604. IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer. If any such tax advice is made to any person or party other than to our client to whom the advice is directed, then the advice expressed above is being delivered to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP) of the transaction or matter discussed or referenced. Each taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
RE: For Michelle re Bramble RE: George
Title: Message Michelle, it breaks hurt to hear about Bramble please know that Bramble is always in my thought and soon he will recover and start eating I wanted to share something with you When George couldnt eat, I told different things, and what he seems to like the most is broiled chicken WITH chicken broth what I do is that I cook a whole chicken in the crock pot and keep the juice, and mix chicken and chicken broth (in nuke temperature) he likes to drink the juice from it and when he feels better, he eat the chicken meat, too you may be able to put some supplements in there, too as you know cats likes to sip juice of different things I thought you might want to try with Bramble or broiled water after boiling chicken liver (maybe)?? Hugs to you, Bramble, Buddy and Minstrel From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N. Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 9:37 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: For Michelle re Bramble RE: George Michelle--I'm sure you already know this, but thought I'd touch base anyway--I had to give all my Felv cats broiled chicken for weeks (there was no way the others were going to sit and watch the genuine patient enjoy his without getting in on the act themselves.) (I hear you re the $$$ by the way---ouch!) The vet told me (2 weeks later, and only after I asked her even tho it was her that prescribed the chicken for Snoball's diarrhea in the first place!) that chicken alone did not supply their needs and I should add a supplement. Just thought I should mention it. Glad to hear Bramble is thoroughly enjoying life! All best wishes forthe little sweetheart'scontinuing recovery---Kerry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:15 AM To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: George Such good news Gloria for George and the otherkittie who has just been released from her cage and tremendous progress that she got on the bed with you even though she freaked when you woke up and moved - she must know you are not a threat. They'll soon learn that you just want to care for them and no doubt take advantage of that just as mine are doing. Going through this tough time with Bramble has meant lots of care and tlc and he has figured this out I think. He now refuses to eat anything much other than good quality cooked chicken slicesbeing hand fed to him too. Well at least he's eating even if it is costing a small fortune. Minstrel and Buddy have also figured this out and keeping coming toask for a piece instead of eating their own so i have to take extra just in case. Michelle, Bramble, Buddy Minstrel Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP is moving our Chicago office to the Hyatt Center, 71 S. Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois 60606. Email addresses, telephone numbers, and facsimile numbers remain unchanged. For more information, click the link below or copy / paste the link into the address bar of your Web browser: http://www.mayerbrownrowe.com/chicago/move.asp Please Note: Some administrative functions will be located at 230 S. LaSalle, Chicago IL, 60604. IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer. If any such tax advice is made to any person or party other than to our client to whom the advice is directed, then the advice expressed above is being delivered to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP) of the transaction or matter discussed or referenced. Each taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
RE: For Nina:
Nina: is everything OK? I havent seen your postings since Saturday and am checking and see how everyone is doing including Timmy Hideyo
Re: Bramble's Fur
Michelle, Couple years ago Petal had the same problem, she had scrathed the skin and fur forn her ears down most of her neck but the rest of her coat was norml. We did the steriod shots and antibiotics for a long time.I had swicthed vets and the new one gave this oatmeal shampoo she said was used for cats with allergeys. I gave Petal a bath once a week till the sores heeled. Then on once a month, I' ve never had the soars return. Might help! Lots of love and prayers. Peggy, Flower, Petal, and my kittyangel Thorne[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: His fur feels soft and silky nowother than around his ears and face Is amber ok now - was there anything that you identified as causing it? Michelle, Bramble, Minstrel Buddy Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please
Title: Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please Hi all Does anyone have any opinion on the quality of Royal Canin dry cat food v. eg Wellness (or for that matter the new Evo)? My vet was extolling its and the company's virtues when I saw him recently and gave me a gratis 6lb bag for my FeLV kitties. (The dry they eat just now is Wellness and all my cats love it so much, and it seems to be doing them good, I'm almost loathe to try them on something else. But I could use a 6lb free bag.) If you guys think Royal Canin quality is as good as Wellness I will mix it in. If not, I'll pass it on to a shelter. Actually I just went on the web and here are the listed ingreds for both. Wellness looks superior. As an aside, my vet was very impressed by the following Royal Canin RD. Am I being just too cynical in thinking it's toys for the boys syndrome? Anyway, if anyone has any comments I'd love to hear them. I'm continually trying to educate myself on kitty nutrition. Thanks! Kerry Finding the Perfect Kibble Research Indicates: The size, shape and power of a cat's jaw depend on its age, breed and state of health. Nutritional Breakthroughs: Scientific and mechanical studies of kibble texture and elasticity led to the use of a Texturometer. This innovation determines kibble size, shape and thickness as well as elasticity and degree of penetration required for breakage. All contribute to producing the perfect kibble for each cat. Ingredients listed for Royal Canin dry: Chicken meal, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken, corn, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), pea fiber, beet pulp, chicken flavor, powdered cellulose, fish oil, dried egg products, brewers yeast, sodium bisulfate, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, choline chloride, DL-methionine, taurine, natural antioxidant, iron proteinate, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese oxide, calcium pantothenate, manganese proteinate, niacin supplement, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite, vitamin B12 supplement. Guaranteed Analysis for Royal Canin dry: Crude Protein Not less than 32% Crude Fat Not less than 13% Crude Fiber Not more than 4% Moisture Not more than 10% Magnesium Not more than 0.095% Taurine Not less than 0.15% Omega 6* Not less than 1.9% Omega 3* Not less than 0.43% Calories (kcal/cup) 316 Ingredents listed for Wellness dry: Salmon, Deboned Turkey, Herring Meal, Salmon Meal, Menhaden Fishmeal, Ground Whole Oats, Brown Rice, Dried Whole Eggs, Dried Peas, Canola Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Oil, Chicken Liver, Flaxseed, Cranberries, Blueberries, Taurine, Garlic, Alfalfa Leaf, Dried Kelp, Whole Ground Apples, Whole Ground Sweet Potatoes, Steamed Zucchini, Yucca Schidigera, Chicory Extract, Beta Carotene, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate (a chelated source of Zinc), Vitamin E supplement, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate (a chelated source of Iron), Manganese Proteinate (a chelated source of Manganese), Calcium Proteinate (a chelated source of Calcium), Niacin Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Cobalt Proteinate (a chelated source of Cobalt), Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Copper Proteinate (a chelated source of Copper), Thiamin Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K activity). Guaranteed Analysis for Wellness dry: Crude Protein Not Less Than 33.0% Crude Fat Not Less Than 19.0% Crude Fiber Not More Than 5.0% Moisture Not More Than 10.0% Ash Not More Than 6.0% Magnesium Not More Than 0.10% Taurine Not Less Than 0.18% Omega-6 (Linoleic Acid) Not Less Than 3.5% Omega-3 (Linolenic Acid) Not Less Than 1.1%* * Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Cat Food Nutrient Profile Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP is moving our Chicago office to the Hyatt Center, 71 S. Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois 60606. Email addresses, telephone numbers, and facsimile numbers remain unchanged. For more information, click the link below or copy / paste the link into the address bar of your Web browser: http://www.mayerbrownrowe.com/chicago/move.asp Please Note: Some administrative functions will be located at 230 S. LaSalle, Chicago IL, 60604. IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer. If any such tax advice is made to any person or
RE: Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please
Title: Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please Kerry my friend is in the distribution business for natural pet food and she knows lots of about lots of different food I will give her a call and ask her about your question. Hideyo From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N. Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:54 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please Hi all Does anyone have any opinion on the quality of Royal Canin dry cat food v. eg Wellness (or for that matter the new Evo)? My vet was extolling its and the company's virtues when I saw him recently and gave me a gratis 6lb bag for my FeLV kitties. (The dry they eat just now is Wellness and all my cats love it so much, and it seems to be doing them good, I'm almost loathe to try them on something else. But I could use a 6lb free bag.) If you guys think Royal Canin quality is as good as Wellness I will mix it in. If not, I'll pass it on to a shelter. Actually I just went on the web and here are the listed ingreds for both. Wellness looks superior. As an aside, my vet was very impressed by the following Royal Canin RD. Am I being just too cynical in thinking it's toys for the boys syndrome? Anyway, if anyone has any comments I'd love to hear them. I'm continually trying to educate myself on kitty nutrition. Thanks! Kerry Finding the Perfect Kibble Research Indicates: The size, shape and power of a cat's jaw depend on its age, breed and state of health. Nutritional Breakthroughs: Scientific and mechanical studies of kibble texture and elasticity led to the use of a Texturometer. This innovation determines kibble size, shape and thickness as well as elasticity and degree of penetration required for breakage. All contribute to producing the perfect kibble for each cat. Ingredients listed for Royal Canin dry: Chicken meal, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken, corn, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), pea fiber, beet pulp, chicken flavor, powdered cellulose, fish oil, dried egg products, brewers yeast, sodium bisulfate, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, choline chloride, DL-methionine, taurine, natural antioxidant, iron proteinate, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese oxide, calcium pantothenate, manganese proteinate, niacin supplement, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite, vitamin B12 supplement. Guaranteed Analysis for Royal Canin dry: Crude Protein Not less than 32% Crude Fat Not less than 13% Crude Fiber Not more than 4% Moisture Not more than 10% Magnesium Not more than 0.095% Taurine Not less than 0.15% Omega 6* Not less than 1.9% Omega 3* Not less than 0.43% Calories (kcal/cup) 316 Ingredents listed for Wellness dry: Salmon, Deboned Turkey, Herring Meal, Salmon Meal, Menhaden Fishmeal, Ground Whole Oats, Brown Rice, Dried Whole Eggs, Dried Peas, Canola Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Oil, Chicken Liver, Flaxseed, Cranberries, Blueberries, Taurine, Garlic, Alfalfa Leaf, Dried Kelp, Whole Ground Apples, Whole Ground Sweet Potatoes, Steamed Zucchini, Yucca Schidigera, Chicory Extract, Beta Carotene, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate (a chelated source of Zinc), Vitamin E supplement, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate (a chelated source of Iron), Manganese Proteinate (a chelated source of Manganese), Calcium Proteinate (a chelated source of Calcium), Niacin Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Cobalt Proteinate (a chelated source of Cobalt), Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Copper Proteinate (a chelated source of Copper), Thiamin Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K activity). Guaranteed Analysis for Wellness dry: Crude Protein Not Less Than 33.0% Crude Fat Not Less Than 19.0% Crude Fiber Not More Than 5.0% Moisture Not More Than 10.0% Ash Not More Than 6.0% Magnesium Not More Than 0.10% Taurine Not Less Than 0.18% Omega-6 (Linoleic Acid) Not Less Than 3.5% Omega-3 (Linolenic Acid) Not Less Than 1.1%* * Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Cat Food Nutrient Profile Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP is moving our Chicago office to the Hyatt Center, 71 S. Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois 60606. Email addresses, telephone numbers, and facsimile numbers remain unchanged. For more information, click the link below or copy / paste the link into the address bar of your Web browser: http://www.mayerbrownrowe.com/chicago/move.asp Please
RE: [FivCats] I need placement help for Domino
I had somewhat of a similar situation when I tried to find a home for Big Boy (FELV+) also live in Westchester. Several rescue groups gave me the name of a man who took all their FELV+ cats; they swore by him but had never been to his home. When I called him, he would not tell me where he was said his arrangements with local rescue groups was to meet them in a parking lot to pick up their cats! He may have been great but I just could not go with that Joke is that with his phone # I found his address in Yahoo in two seconds flat! As for the rescuer listed here, I bet if somewhat called her vet they might hear a different story than she presents! Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barbara Lowe Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 9:03 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [FivCats] I need placement help for Domino what's with this 'wet food increases tartar and placque' statement ? and where is that woman her sanctuary in westchester? that place sounds to me like anther angel's wings in the making situation. can we find out where that house is and ask to have it investigated? even if just by another rescue so that in case it is okay rather than reporting her first to aspca who would remove animals because she's over the legal limit. barbara - Original Message - From: Hideyo Yamamoto To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 7:09 PM Subject: FW: [FivCats] I need placement help for Domino Please allow me to cross post this in case you can help- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of siberskii Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 6:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FivCats] I need placement help for Domino Some of you may remember me from last month. I have MS and now Domino has had 2 Western blots (the 2d was just done at Cornell), both with FIV+ results. Domino has been a strictly indoor cat, has a dog companion (our Golden), my kids and us. She only eats Nutro dry food, which is probably why her teeth and gums are in such good shape. I have read with interest the various postings here re: people with Lupus, HIV+ etc., who have FIV+ cats. The bottom line is that for those of us who are immune-compromised, there are no definitive answers about our risks with FIV+ cats. Joel posted here a little while ago about the spread of bacteria between people and cats; others have written about cat scratch disease being transmitted to humans. Unless you are immune compromsed, no one really can tell the those of us who are, whether it's worth the risk to keep an FIV+ cat around or not, or whether there's a risk at all. It's a complete gamble. I previously posted that I am not willing to take the gamble, not with my health. Too many doctors have been wrong about my disease, its progression, the drugs I've taken for MS their side effects; I can't take the word of fellow kitty-lovers about FIV+ if my own human docs, the two vets I've seen the Cornell Feline Health Clinic have question marks about this. So yes, I decided that I needed to place Domino elsewhere for both our sakes. I contacted the rescue group where we got Domino. They connected me to a lady nearby, in Westchester County, NY where I live. She has 17 FIV+ cats. Eight are upstairs with a dominant female, 9 are downstairs in runs or cages because they either spray or are too timid to use their litter boxes (at least acc to the lady). She feeds them all a little wet food to keep them hydrated (what happened to water?), which we all know increases tarter and plaque, as well as dry food. She has told me that many of her cats have had theirteeth pulled, and that some are completely toothless. She also told me that she has litter boxes all over the house, that some cats sleep on her bed, on pillows or selsewhere, and that she keeps mountans of amoxicillin around. She also has two small gogs plus a German Shepherd. She became angry when I asked if I could inspect the premises, telling me that I was being insulting to her, and she said that the only thing I could see or do at her house (which I can't, since her house isn't accessible) would be to put Domino in what she described as a large dog-sized cage in the kitchen to say goodbye. Then Domino would remain in the cage for a full month while the other cats got used to her and vice versa. Apart from my discompfort with all the above, it seems only logical to me that with so many FIV+ cats around, the chances of spreading illness, viruses and bacteria increases exponentially, thereby increasing the rish to all the cats. Needless to say, I am not inclined to place Domino with this lady. But I need to place Domino somewhere - not in a foster home, not with a resue group or a shelter, but in a permanent home where she will be safe and happy without zillions
RE: [FivCats] I need placement help for Domino
I really feel that weve got to actually see whatever the place is I think we owe it to ourselves and our kitties to make sure that this is a place we want our kitties to stay they might not be the bad people, and they might be honestly think their place is sufficient, and or even a wonderful place for our cats to be but our standard is all different and we dont really want to rely on the description told on the phone but we have to see them in our own eyes I also had a similar situation, and the guy who operates the place (in NM) sounded very nice and caring but we decide to see it again, he was very proud of the facility but the place was nothing that we want our kitties to be as a mater of fact, I almost wanted to bring their kitties back with us Hideyo From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 11:17 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: [FivCats] I need placement help for Domino I had somewhat of a similar situation when I tried to find a home for Big Boy (FELV+) also live in Westchester. Several rescue groups gave me the name of a man who took all their FELV+ cats; they swore by him but had never been to his home. When I called him, he would not tell me where he was said his arrangements with local rescue groups was to meet them in a parking lot to pick up their cats! He may have been great but I just could not go with that Joke is that with his phone # I found his address in Yahoo in two seconds flat! As for the rescuer listed here, I bet if somewhat called her vet they might hear a different story than she presents! Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barbara Lowe Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 9:03 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [FivCats] I need placement help for Domino what's with this 'wet food increases tartar and placque' statement ? and where is that woman her sanctuary in westchester? that place sounds to me like anther angel's wings in the making situation. can we find out where that house is and ask to have it investigated? even if just by another rescue so that in case it is okay rather than reporting her first to aspca who would remove animals because she's over the legal limit. barbara - Original Message - From: Hideyo Yamamoto To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 7:09 PM Subject: FW: [FivCats] I need placement help for Domino Please allow me to cross post this in case you can help- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of siberskii Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 6:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FivCats] I need placement help for Domino Some of you may remember me from last month. I have MS and now Domino has had 2 Western blots (the 2d was just done at Cornell), both with FIV+ results. Domino has been a strictly indoor cat, has a dog companion (our Golden), my kids and us. She only eats Nutro dry food, which is probably why her teeth and gums are in such good shape. I have read with interest the various postings here re: people with Lupus, HIV+ etc., who have FIV+ cats. The bottom line is that for those of us who are immune-compromised, there are no definitive answers about our risks with FIV+ cats. Joel posted here a little while ago about the spread of bacteria between people and cats; others have written about cat scratch disease being transmitted to humans. Unless you are immune compromsed, no one really can tell the those of us who are, whether it's worth the risk to keep an FIV+ cat around or not, or whether there's a risk at all. It's a complete gamble. I previously posted that I am not willing to take the gamble, not with my health. Too many doctors have been wrong about my disease, its progression, the drugs I've taken for MS their side effects; I can't take the word of fellow kitty-lovers about FIV+ if my own human docs, the two vets I've seen the Cornell Feline Health Clinic have question marks about this. So yes, I decided that I needed to place Domino elsewhere for both our sakes. I contacted the rescue group where we got Domino. They connected me to a lady nearby, in Westchester County, NY where I live. She has 17 FIV+ cats. Eight are upstairs with a dominant female, 9 are downstairs in runs or cages because they either spray or are too timid to use their litter boxes (at least acc to the lady). She feeds them all a little wet food to keep them hydrated (what happened to water?), which we all know increases tarter and plaque, as well as dry food. She has told me that many of her cats have had theirteeth pulled, and that some are completely toothless. She also told me that she has litter boxes all over the house, that some cats sleep on her bed, on pillows or selsewhere, and that she keeps
RE: Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please
Title: Message Thanks Hideyo! -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hideyo YamamotoSent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 11:57 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please Kerry my friend is in the distribution business for natural pet food and she knows lots of about lots of different food I will give her a call and ask her about your question. Hideyo From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N.Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:54 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please Hi all Does anyone have any opinion on the quality of Royal Canin dry cat food v. eg Wellness (or for that matter the new Evo)? My vet was extolling its and the company's virtues when I saw him recently and gave me a gratis 6lb bag for my FeLV kitties. (The dry they eat just now is Wellness and all my cats love it so much, and it seems to be doing them good, I'm almost loathe to try them on something else. But I could use a 6lb free bag.) If you guys think Royal Canin quality is as good as Wellness I will mix it in. If not, I'll pass it on to a shelter. Actually I just went on the web and here are the listed ingreds for both. Wellness looks superior. As an aside, my vet was very impressed by the following Royal Canin RD. Am I being just too cynical in thinking it's "toys for the boys" syndrome? Anyway, if anyone has any comments I'd love to hear them. I'm continually trying to educate myself on kitty nutrition. Thanks! Kerry Finding the Perfect Kibble Research Indicates: The size, shape and power of a cat's jaw depend on its age, breed and state of health. Nutritional Breakthroughs: Scientific and mechanical studies of kibble texture and elasticity led to the use of a Texturometer. This innovation determines kibble size, shape and thickness as well as elasticity and degree of penetration required for breakage. All contribute to producing the perfect kibble for each cat. Ingredients listed for Royal Canin dry: Chicken meal, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken, corn, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), pea fiber, beet pulp, chicken flavor, powdered cellulose, fish oil, dried egg products, brewers yeast, sodium bisulfate, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, choline chloride, DL-methionine, taurine, natural antioxidant, iron proteinate, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese oxide, calcium pantothenate, manganese proteinate, niacin supplement, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite, vitamin B12 supplement. Guaranteed Analysis for Royal Canin dry: Crude Protein Not less than 32% Crude Fat Not less than 13% Crude Fiber Not more than 4% Moisture Not more than 10% Magnesium Not more than 0.095% Taurine Not less than 0.15% Omega 6* Not less than 1.9% Omega 3* Not less than 0.43% Calories (kcal/cup) 316 Ingredents listed for Wellness dry: Salmon, Deboned Turkey, Herring Meal, Salmon Meal, Menhaden Fishmeal, Ground Whole Oats, Brown Rice, Dried Whole Eggs, Dried Peas, Canola Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Oil, Chicken Liver, Flaxseed, Cranberries, Blueberries, Taurine, Garlic, Alfalfa Leaf, Dried Kelp, Whole Ground Apples, Whole Ground Sweet Potatoes, Steamed Zucchini, Yucca Schidigera, Chicory Extract, Beta Carotene, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate (a chelated source of Zinc), Vitamin E supplement, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate (a chelated source of Iron), Manganese Proteinate (a chelated source of Manganese), Calcium Proteinate (a chelated source of Calcium), Niacin Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Cobalt Proteinate (a chelated source of Cobalt), Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Copper Proteinate (a chelated source of Copper), Thiamin Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K activity). Guaranteed Analysis for Wellness dry: Crude Protein Not Less Than 33.0% Crude Fat Not Less Than 19.0% Crude Fiber Not More Than 5.0% Moisture Not More Than 10.0% Ash Not More Than 6.0% Magnesium Not More Than 0.10% Taurine Not Less Than 0.18% Omega-6 (Linoleic Acid) Not Less Than 3.5% Omega-3 (Linolenic Acid) Not Less Than 1.1%* * Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Cat Food Nutrient Profile Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP is moving our Chicago office to the Hyatt Center, 71 S. Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois 60606.
Re: Nina's Timmy
Hi Hideyo, Thanks for asking. He's doing better. His eyelids are still up, but the rest of the crew seems to be getting over whatever the heck was going around. (Maybe the TF helped?). Congratulations on catching George! Good for you. Isn't it amazing what we can do when we just won't take no for an answer?! I get that way when I'm trapping kittens that have a chance at socialization, I just grit my teeth and do whatever it takes to get the little buggers! I'm also very happy to hear Squeaky has gotten out of 'quarantine' too! Nina Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: Nina, how is Timmy doing now?
RE: Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please
Kerry, Personally speaking, my cats did better on Wellness than Royal Canin. They like(d) both tho. I now feed Eagle Pack (because of Coebeio's allergies-she does better on it), BUT, I use other high quality cat foods, Wellness...Royal Canin, Wysong, Newmans, as treats instead of buying the more expensive cat "treats" that are basically just corn and by-products. Besides...two 6lb bags will last you12 months or more...for say...$20 total...when cat treats are what(?) $2 per pouch and that only lasts about a week. Just a thought. THideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kerry my friend is in the distribution business for natural pet food and she knows lots of about lots of different food I will give her a call and ask her about your question. Hideyo From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N.Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:54 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please Hi all Does anyone have any opinion on the quality of Royal Canin dry cat food v. eg Wellness (or for that matter the new Evo)? My vet was extolling its and the company's virtues when I saw him recently and gave me a gratis 6lb bag for my FeLV kitties. (The dry they eat just now is Wellness and all my cats love it so much, and it seems to be doing them good, I'm almost loathe to try them on something else. But I could use a 6lb free bag.) If you guys think Royal Canin quality is as good as Wellness I will mix it in. If not, I'll pass it on to a shelter. Actually I just went on the web and here are the listed ingreds for both. Wellness looks superior. As an aside, my vet was very impressed by the following Royal Canin RD. Am I being just too cynical in thinking it's "toys for the boys" syndrome? Anyway, if anyone has any comments I'd love to hear them. I'm continually trying to educate myself on kitty nutrition. Thanks! Kerry Finding the Perfect Kibble Research Indicates: The size, shape and power of a cat's jaw depend on its age, breed and state of health. Nutritional Breakthroughs: Scientific and mechanical studies of kibble texture and elasticity led to the use of a Texturometer. This innovation determines kibble size, shape and thickness as well as elasticity and degree of penetration required for breakage. All contribute to producing the perfect kibble for each cat. Ingredients listed for Royal Canin dry: Chicken meal, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken, corn, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), pea fiber, beet pulp, chicken flavor, powdered cellulose, fish oil, dried egg products, brewers yeast, sodium bisulfate, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, choline chloride, DL-methionine, taurine, natural antioxidant, iron proteinate, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese oxide, calcium pantothenate, manganese proteinate, niacin supplement, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite, vitamin B12 supplement. Guaranteed Analysis for Royal Canin dry: Crude Protein Not less than 32% Crude Fat Not less than 13% Crude Fiber Not more than 4% Moisture Not more than 10% Magnesium Not more than 0.095% Taurine Not less than 0.15% Omega 6* Not less than 1.9% Omega 3* Not less than 0.43% Calories (kcal/cup) 316 Ingredents listed for Wellness dry: Salmon, Deboned Turkey, Herring Meal, Salmon Meal, Menhaden Fishmeal, Ground Whole Oats, Brown Rice, Dried Whole Eggs, Dried Peas, Canola Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Oil, Chicken Liver, Flaxseed, Cranberries, Blueberries, Taurine, Garlic, Alfalfa Leaf, Dried Kelp, Whole Ground Apples, Whole Ground Sweet Potatoes, Steamed Zucchini, Yucca Schidigera, Chicory Extract, Beta Carotene, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate (a chelated source of Zinc), Vitamin E supplement, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate (a chelated source of Iron), Manganese Proteinate (a chelated source of Manganese), Calcium Proteinate (a chelated source of Calcium), Niacin Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Cobalt Proteinate (a chelated source of Cobalt), Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Copper Proteinate (a chelated source of Copper), Thiamin Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K activity). Guaranteed Analysis for Wellness dry: Crude Protein Not Less Than 33.0% Crude Fat Not Less Than 19.0% Crude Fiber Not More Than 5.0% Moisture Not More Than 10.0% Ash Not More Than 6.0% Magnesium Not More Than 0.10% Taurine Not Less Than 0.18% Omega-6 (Linoleic Acid) Not Less Than 3.5% Omega-3 (Linolenic Acid) Not
RE: Nina's Timmy
I am so glad that Timmy is doing better and so are the rest of your babies - I am planning to take George to the vet this afternoon - please wish me and George luck - I am going to have them draw a blood without anesthesia - I just don't want him to go through anesthesia (I am so afraid of it) - I am hoping that we can put George in a bag (I don't know what they call it - but a little suck with a zipper - we did it with Simon) - Nina, please pray that I will have a strength to go through with this, and have a strength to deal with whatever the findings may be with my George!! We really need it! Hugs to you and all your babies Hideyo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 11:50 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Nina's Timmy Hi Hideyo, Thanks for asking. He's doing better. His eyelids are still up, but the rest of the crew seems to be getting over whatever the heck was going around. (Maybe the TF helped?). Congratulations on catching George! Good for you. Isn't it amazing what we can do when we just won't take no for an answer?! I get that way when I'm trapping kittens that have a chance at socialization, I just grit my teeth and do whatever it takes to get the little buggers! I'm also very happy to hear Squeaky has gotten out of 'quarantine' too! Nina Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: Nina, how is Timmy doing now?
RE: Nina's Timmy
Glad to hear the worst seems over, Nina! May it continue. Hugs to you and your furballs, and wishing Timmy a full recovery, Kerry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 12:50 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Nina's Timmy Hi Hideyo, Thanks for asking. He's doing better. His eyelids are still up, but the rest of the crew seems to be getting over whatever the heck was going around. (Maybe the TF helped?). Congratulations on catching George! Good for you. Isn't it amazing what we can do when we just won't take no for an answer?! I get that way when I'm trapping kittens that have a chance at socialization, I just grit my teeth and do whatever it takes to get the little buggers! I'm also very happy to hear Squeaky has gotten out of 'quarantine' too! Nina Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: Nina, how is Timmy doing now? hr pfont color=#99 size=+1 face=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serifstrongMayer, Brown, Rowe amp; Maw LLP is moving our Chicago office to the Hyatt Center,/strong/fontfont color=#99 face=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif 71 S. Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois 60606. Email addresses, telephone numbers, and facsimile numbers remain unchanged. For more information, click the link below or copy / paste the link into the address bar of your Web browser: /font/pa href=http://www.mayerbrownrowe.com/chicago/move.asp;http://www.mayerbrownrowe.com/chicago/move.asp/a Please Note: Some administrative functions will be located at 230 S. LaSalle, Chicago IL, 60604. hr IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer. If any such tax advice is made to any person or party other than to our client to whom the advice is directed, then the advice expressed above is being delivered to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP) of the transaction or matter discussed or referenced. Each taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor. hr This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
Re: For Michelle re Bramble RE: George
Thank you Kerry for pointing this out. It's not that important if you are making a home made diet for just a short time, but extended 'plain chicken' will cause other problems in the long run. Wysong puts out a supplement to add to their plain meat canned food called Call of the Wild. There is also one from Know Better Cat Food called Feline Factors, this one is to add to raw food. Ask your vet what you should be using to bring his diet into balance. Add less of it at first, (or you might turn him off to his food), then gradually build up to the recommended amount. I'm thrilled to hear that Bramble is hanging in there! Nina MacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote: Michelle--I'm sure you already know this, but thought I'd touch base anyway--I had to give all my Felv cats broiled chicken for weeks (there was no way the others were going to sit and watch the genuine patient enjoy his without getting in on the act themselves.) (I hear you re the $$$ by the way---ouch!) The vet told me (2 weeks later, and only after I asked her even tho it was her that prescribed the chicken for Snoball's diarrhea in the first place!) that chicken alone did not supply their needs and I should add a supplement. Just thought I should mention it. Glad to hear Bramble is thoroughly enjoying life! All best wishes for the little sweetheart's continuing recovery---Kerry
Re: Nina's Timmy
Hideyo I am praying for George's diagnosis and recovery. My prayers are always with you for courage and strength, but you are already one of the most strong and courageous soldiers I know. You can do this. As I know you will, make sure that George is traumatized as little as possible and keep telling yourself that once this vet visit is over, you will be that much closer to resolving whatever is bothering your sweet George. Square your shoulders, you can do this! Nina Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: I am so glad that Timmy is doing better and so are the rest of your babies - I am planning to take George to the vet this afternoon - please wish me and George luck - I am going to have them draw a blood without anesthesia - I just don't want him to go through anesthesia (I am so afraid of it) - I am hoping that we can put George in a bag (I don't know what they call it - but a little suck with a zipper - we did it with Simon) - Nina, please pray that I will have a strength to go through with this, and have a strength to deal with whatever the findings may be with my George!! We really need it! Hugs to you and all your babies Hideyo
Re: Nina's Timmy
Thank you Kerry! Sometimes it's hard to breath. I just have to keep telling myself that all I can do, is all I can do. Thankfully it seems to be enough right now! :) Nina MacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote: Glad to hear the worst seems over, Nina! May it continue. Hugs to you and your furballs, and wishing Timmy a full recovery, Kerry
RE: Nina's Timmy
Oh,, Nina, now you are making me cry... thanks bunch - George and I appreciate it so very much.. hugs Hideyo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 1:10 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Nina's Timmy Hideyo I am praying for George's diagnosis and recovery. My prayers are always with you for courage and strength, but you are already one of the most strong and courageous soldiers I know. You can do this. As I know you will, make sure that George is traumatized as little as possible and keep telling yourself that once this vet visit is over, you will be that much closer to resolving whatever is bothering your sweet George. Square your shoulders, you can do this! Nina Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: I am so glad that Timmy is doing better and so are the rest of your babies - I am planning to take George to the vet this afternoon - please wish me and George luck - I am going to have them draw a blood without anesthesia - I just don't want him to go through anesthesia (I am so afraid of it) - I am hoping that we can put George in a bag (I don't know what they call it - but a little suck with a zipper - we did it with Simon) - Nina, please pray that I will have a strength to go through with this, and have a strength to deal with whatever the findings may be with my George!! We really need it! Hugs to you and all your babies Hideyo
Royal Canin vs Wellness opinion
Hi there, First and most importantly, Wellness and Innova's Evo are going to have *human grade ingredients*.This is key because if it's deemed unfit for human consumption and processed as *pet grade material*, it probably consists of diseased (for example: tumorous masses or cancerous material) and disabled meat sources or rendered meat sources, which may have been purchased at a rendering plant (the same ones that process bodies of euthanized dogs and cats unfortunately). Heh. It is also beneficial for grains to be human-grade as well. Corn, other grains and foods like peanut butter (for example) that are processed for human consumption are batch tested for a carcinogenic (cancer-causing) mold called aflatoxin. The batches are also tested for high amounts of pestiside residues and other unsavory chemicals that make their way into our food sources. Pet grade grains are NOT tested for any of this things, unfortunately. This list of ingredients for Royal Canin does *not* appear to list animal or meat by-products which is a big plus. By-products can consist of tongue, beaks, feathers, intestines, lungs, grizzle, bone and other materials. While animals eat a certain amount of by-products in their natural environments, one's diet should not primarily consist of a by-product simply because it's an inferior source of protein. Just FYI. Any kind of meal is going to be a lesser quality source of protein. Protein *quality* is extremely important with any type of food, be it animal or human. Meal is superior to by-product by far, however, the quality of the protein will depend on the type and amount of chicken meat in the mixture, as well as the amount of bone and connective tissue processed with the meat. Chicken meal is the number one ingredient in Royal Canin. I believe brewer's rice is the part of the rice that is left over after it has been used in a distillery for brewing alcoholic beverages. I doubt it has much nutritonal value. It's listed as the second ingredient in Royal Canin so there's a lot of it to deal with in there. Corn is an extremely common allergen in animal foods. It's difficult to digest though some sources say cats can digest it better than humans and dogs. It's not a complete source of amino acids. It has to be combined with other food sources to be a complete protein. After the starch and germ have been removed from corn and the bran has been separated, the leftovers go through a wet milling process to make corn syrup or starch. The corn gluten meal is what is left over after that process. Simply not very nutritous and RC lists it as the third ingredient. My advice would be to save the corn gluten meal for organic gardening. It makes for good weed control hehe. I don't know enough about pea fiber to make a case for or against it. It's not in any of the foods I use though. Beet pulp is the dried residue from sugar beets which has been cleaned and extracted in the process of manufacturing sugar. I have mixed feelings on beet pulp. Some tout it as a high quality fiber source, others say it's a filler, a sugar source, etc. I tend to lean towards the latter and think it has no place in animal food. I have no idea what's in the chicken flavor. Powdered cellulose is purified, mechanically disintegrated cellulose prepared by processing alpha cellulose obtained as a pulp from fibrous plant material. In other words, sawdust. (Foods Pets Die For by Ann Martin). If we're looking for rich fiber sources, I would think whole fruits and vegetables would be the intuitive answer vs powdered cellulose, beet pulp or pea fiber. I believe the vitamin and mineral sources in Wellness to be more bioavailable, or useable, by their body systems and Wellness *does* contain beneficial baterial or probiotics (like Lactobacillus Acidophilus) which I believe everyone needs to promote intestinal health and immunity. Regardless of the comparisions listed here, neither meat source is organic, or without antibiotics and added hormones. Antibiotics are routinely and mass-fed to slaughterhouse animals as an attempt to keep disease in check. Antibiotics, in humans and animals, do not discriminate against friendly and unfriendly bacteria in the body. It tends to wipe out all colonies. Everyone needs beneficial bacteria to ward off pesky things like Candida Albicans, which occurs naturally in the body but kept uncheck can multiply rapidly. A systemic candida infection can cause severe intestinal and immune disfunction. I don't think the amount added to Wellness is certainly going to combat long-term antibiotic use or battle a yeast infection but it can't hurt to have it there, eh? ;) Wellness is baked which is touted as a nutrient preserver. Wellness does have a lot of fish sources, which can contain high levels of heavy metals such as mecury. However it's human grade, so it could be tested for heavy
for Laura RE: Royal Canin vs Wellness opinion
Wow, Laura---that is high-grade info!! Thank you so much--I'm going to study this closely at home tonight. I believe you are what you eat--by and large. So I'm keen to know as much as possible about what's best out there for the kitties (realistically, home-made just ain't going to happen in my home any time soon). By the way, d'you mind if I pass your info on to others? My vet calls him the miracle cat but then again, my vet does not follow nutrition as a protocol for healing and wellness either. I think she, like most vets, get their nutritional knowledge from Hills Science Diet or similar sources and it's only a few hours of training at best. I think you are absolutely right in this. I bet your info would be largely news to my vet! I'm going to work on getting him more clued into nutrition. Thanks to this wonderful group, I discovered on Saturday that he's applied for Virbagen Omega for another client's FeLV cat. So he's open to learning from the troops in the trenches. Really appreciate it--thanks so much again! Kerry PS Are you Hideyo's friend, by the way, Laura? She said she was going to ask a friend who worked in the distribution business for natural pet food -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Summer Silvae Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:33 PM To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Royal Canin vs Wellness opinion Hi there, First and most importantly, Wellness and Innova's Evo are going to have *human grade ingredients*.This is key because if it's deemed unfit for human consumption and processed as *pet grade material*, it probably consists of diseased (for example: tumorous masses or cancerous material) and disabled meat sources or rendered meat sources, which may have been purchased at a rendering plant (the same ones that process bodies of euthanized dogs and cats unfortunately). Heh. It is also beneficial for grains to be human-grade as well. Corn, other grains and foods like peanut butter (for example) that are processed for human consumption are batch tested for a carcinogenic (cancer-causing) mold called aflatoxin. The batches are also tested for high amounts of pestiside residues and other unsavory chemicals that make their way into our food sources. Pet grade grains are NOT tested for any of this things, unfortunately. This list of ingredients for Royal Canin does *not* appear to list animal or meat by-products which is a big plus. By-products can consist of tongue, beaks, feathers, intestines, lungs, grizzle, bone and other materials. While animals eat a certain amount of by-products in their natural environments, one's diet should not primarily consist of a by-product simply because it's an inferior source of protein. Just FYI. Any kind of meal is going to be a lesser quality source of protein. Protein *quality* is extremely important with any type of food, be it animal or human. Meal is superior to by-product by far, however, the quality of the protein will depend on the type and amount of chicken meat in the mixture, as well as the amount of bone and connective tissue processed with the meat. Chicken meal is the number one ingredient in Royal Canin. I believe brewer's rice is the part of the rice that is left over after it has been used in a distillery for brewing alcoholic beverages. I doubt it has much nutritonal value. It's listed as the second ingredient in Royal Canin so there's a lot of it to deal with in there. Corn is an extremely common allergen in animal foods. It's difficult to digest though some sources say cats can digest it better than humans and dogs. It's not a complete source of amino acids. It has to be combined with other food sources to be a complete protein. After the starch and germ have been removed from corn and the bran has been separated, the leftovers go through a wet milling process to make corn syrup or starch. The corn gluten meal is what is left over after that process. Simply not very nutritous and RC lists it as the third ingredient. My advice would be to save the corn gluten meal for organic gardening. It makes for good weed control hehe. I don't know enough about pea fiber to make a case for or against it. It's not in any of the foods I use though. Beet pulp is the dried residue from sugar beets which has been cleaned and extracted in the process of manufacturing sugar. I have mixed feelings on beet pulp. Some tout it as a high quality fiber source, others say it's a filler, a sugar source, etc. I tend to lean towards the latter and think it has no place in animal food. I have no idea what's in the chicken flavor. Powdered cellulose is purified, mechanically disintegrated cellulose prepared by processing alpha cellulose obtained as a pulp from fibrous plant material. In other words, sawdust. (Foods Pets Die For by Ann Martin). If we're looking for rich fiber sources, I would think whole fruits and
RE: For Nina:
Agreed--when I got to the bit where you say someone replied to the found ad I have to admit my heart did sink, Nina. Oh, it's so good to know that they're going to be loved and cared for from now on. Kerry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 3:50 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: For Nina: Kerry, Yes, the little girl was holding up her front right leg. It appears to be a slight sprain. It's getting better now, thank you for asking. I'd take these guys in a heartbeat, if I wasn't already facing a stint in the loony bin. They're such nice dogs. A woman who spoke very little English replied to the found ad yesterday. The poor thing thought that Chow was abbreviated for Chiuaua! I guess my parents aren't the best at screening calls, because she came to see them. She must have been so disappointed when these two came bounding up! Confidentially, I was relieved she wasn't the owner. Unless these guys have been lost for a very long time, their condition tells me that I would not approve of the home they came from. Nina MacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote: Those lucky little pups. They sure came to the right place. Wasn't one holding up her right foot because it was injured. How is the little sweetie doing? It's wonderful that they found you and your family, Nina. They couldn't be in better hands, that's for sure. Kerry hr pfont color=#99 size=+1 face=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serifstrongMayer, Brown, Rowe amp; Maw LLP is moving our Chicago office to the Hyatt Center,/strong/fontfont color=#99 face=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif 71 S. Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois 60606. Email addresses, telephone numbers, and facsimile numbers remain unchanged. For more information, click the link below or copy / paste the link into the address bar of your Web browser: /font/pa href=http://www.mayerbrownrowe.com/chicago/move.asp;http://www.mayerbrownrowe.com/chicago/move.asp/a Please Note: Some administrative functions will be located at 230 S. LaSalle, Chicago IL, 60604. hr IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer. If any such tax advice is made to any person or party other than to our client to whom the advice is directed, then the advice expressed above is being delivered to support the promotion or marketing (by a person other than Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP) of the transaction or matter discussed or referenced. Each taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayers particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor. hr This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
Bramble and nutrition
Thanks for the info on nutrition and supplements. Unfortunately for Bramble I am unable to cook it for him myself or make broth etc... as I am vegan and can only just manage scraping fish out of a tin (which he isn't eating) or breaking up ready cooked chicken, or emptying food out of a packet. I couldn't handle raw meat as the sight of the chicken still in bird shape or the blood that goes with it would have me constantly in tears and physically vomiting. I wish I could do it for him but I just can't. I will definitely get him some supplement in his diet though if he continues refusing anything other than chicken. So if anyone knows of any way of making any nutritous broth from chicken that only involves ready prepared chicken and none raw stuff that is not resembling the shape of the animal or bird then please share. Michelle, Bramble, Minstrel Buddy
Re: Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please
I've always had trouble getting my cats to eat Wellness.Gloria On Jun 21, 2005, at 11:54 AM, MacKenzie, Kerry N. wrote: Hi all Does anyone have any opinion on the quality of Royal Canin dry cat food v. eg Wellness (or for that matter the new Evo)? My vet was extolling its and the company's virtues when I saw him recently and gave me a gratis 6lb bag for my FeLV kitties. (The dry they eat just now is Wellness and all my cats love it so much, and it seems to be doing them good, I'm almost loathe to try them on something else. But I could use a 6lb free bag.) If you guys think Royal Canin quality is as good as Wellness I will mix it in. If not, I'll pass it on to a shelter. Actually I just went on the web and here are the listed ingreds for both. Wellness looks superior. As an aside, my vet was very impressed by the following Royal Canin RD. Am I being just too cynical in thinking it's toys for the boys syndrome? Anyway, if anyone has any comments I'd love to hear them. I'm continually trying to educate myself on kitty nutrition. Thanks! Kerry Finding the Perfect Kibble Research Indicates: The size, shape and power of a cat's jaw depend on its age, breed and state of health. Nutritional Breakthroughs: Scientific and mechanical studies of kibble texture and elasticity led to the use of a Texturometer. This innovation determines kibble size, shape and thickness as well as elasticity and degree of penetration required for breakage. All contribute to producing the perfect kibble for each cat. Ingredients listed for Royal Canin dry: Chicken meal, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken, corn, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), pea fiber, beet pulp, chicken flavor, powdered cellulose, fish oil, dried egg products, brewers yeast, sodium bisulfate, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, choline chloride, DL-methionine, taurine, natural antioxidant, iron proteinate, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese oxide, calcium pantothenate, manganese proteinate, niacin supplement, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite, vitamin B12 supplement. Guaranteed Analysis for Royal Canin dry: Crude Protein Not less than 32% Crude Fat Not less than 13% Crude Fiber Not more than 4% Moisture Not more than 10% Magnesium Not more than 0.095% Taurine Not less than 0.15% Omega 6* Not less than 1.9% Omega 3* Not less than 0.43% Calories (kcal/cup) 316 Ingredents listed for Wellness dry: Salmon, Deboned Turkey, Herring Meal, Salmon Meal, Menhaden Fishmeal, Ground Whole Oats, Brown Rice, Dried Whole Eggs, Dried Peas, Canola Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Oil, Chicken Liver, Flaxseed, Cranberries, Blueberries, Taurine, Garlic, Alfalfa Leaf, Dried Kelp, Whole Ground Apples, Whole Ground Sweet Potatoes, Steamed Zucchini, Yucca Schidigera, Chicory Extract, Beta Carotene, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate (a chelated source of Zinc), Vitamin E supplement, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate (a chelated source of Iron), Manganese Proteinate (a chelated source of Manganese), Calcium Proteinate (a chelated source of Calcium), Niacin Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Cobalt Proteinate (a chelated source of Cobalt), Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Copper Proteinate (a chelated source of Copper), Thiamin Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K activity). Guaranteed Analysis for Wellness dry: Crude Protein Not Less Than 33.0% Crude Fat Not Less Than 19.0% Crude Fiber Not More Than 5.0% Moisture Not More Than 10.0% Ash Not More Than 6.0% Magnesium Not More Than 0.10% Taurine Not Less Than 0.18% Omega-6 (Linoleic Acid) Not Less Than 3.5% Omega-3 (Linolenic Acid) Not Less Than 1.1%* * Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Cat Food Nutrient Profile Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw LLP is moving our Chicago office to the Hyatt Center, 71 S. Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois 60606. Email addresses, telephone numbers, and facsimile numbers remain unchanged. For more information, click the link below or copy / paste the link into the address bar of your Web browser: http://www.mayerbrownrowe.com/chicago/move.asp Please Note: Some administrative functions will be located at 230 S. LaSalle, Chicago IL, 60604. IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer, Brown, Rowe Maw
Re: Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please
I just tried Eagle Pack, but again, having trouble getting my guys to eat it! Any suggestions? Gloria On Jun 21, 2005, at 12:51 PM, tamara stickler wrote: Kerry, Personally speaking, my cats did better on Wellness than Royal Canin. They like(d) both tho. I now feed Eagle Pack (because of Coebeio's allergies-she does better on it), BUT, I use other high quality cat foods, Wellness...Royal Canin, Wysong, Newmans, as treats instead of buying the more expensive cat treats that are basically just corn and by-products. Besides...two 6lb bags will last you 12 months or more...for say...$20 total...when cat treats are what(?) $2 per pouch and that only lasts about a week. Just a thought. T Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kerry – my friend is in the distribution business for natural pet food and she knows lots of about lots of different food – I will give her a call and ask her about your question. Hideyo From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Felvtalk- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N. Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:54 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please Hi all Does anyone have any opinion on the quality of Royal Canin dry cat food v. eg Wellness (or for that matter the new Evo)? My vet was extolling its and the company's virtues when I saw him recently and gave me a gratis 6lb bag for my FeLV kitties. (The dry they eat just now is Wellness and all my cats love it so much, and it seems to be doing them good, I'm almost loathe to try them on something else. But I could use a 6lb free bag.) If you guys think Royal Canin quality is as good as Wellness I will mix it in. If not, I'll pass it on to a shelter. Actually I just went on the web and here are the listed ingreds for both. Wellness looks superior. As an aside, my vet was very impressed by the following Royal Canin RD. Am I being just too cynical in thinking it's toys for the boys syndrome? Anyway, if anyone has any comments I'd love to hear them. I'm continually trying to educate myself on kitty nutrition. Thanks! Kerry Finding the Perfect Kibble Research Indicates: The size, shape and power of a cat's jaw depend on its age, breed and state of health. Nutritional Breakthroughs: Scientific and mechanical studies of kibble texture and elasticity led to the use of a Texturometer. This innovation determines kibble size, shape and thickness as well as elasticity and degree of penetration required for breakage. All contribute to producing the perfect kibble for each cat. Ingredients listed for Royal Canin dry: Chicken meal, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken, corn, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), pea fiber, beet pulp, chicken flavor, powdered cellulose, fish oil, dried egg products, brewers yeast, sodium bisulfate, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, choline chloride, DL-methionine, taurine, natural antioxidant, iron proteinate, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese oxide, calcium pantothenate, manganese proteinate, niacin supplement, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite, vitamin B12 supplement. Guaranteed Analysis for Royal Canin dry: Crude Protein Not less than 32% Crude Fat Not less than 13% Crude Fiber Not more than 4% Moisture Not more than 10% Magnesium Not more than 0.095% Taurine Not less than 0.15% Omega 6* Not less than 1.9% Omega 3* Not less than 0.43% Calories (kcal/cup) 316 Ingredents listed for Wellness dry: Salmon, Deboned Turkey, Herring Meal, Salmon Meal, Menhaden Fishmeal, Ground Whole Oats, Brown Rice, Dried Whole Eggs, Dried Peas, Canola Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Oil, Chicken Liver, Flaxseed, Cranberries, Blueberries, Taurine, Garlic, Alfalfa Leaf, Dried Kelp, Whole Ground Apples, Whole Ground Sweet Potatoes, Steamed Zucchini, Yucca Schidigera, Chicory Extract, Beta Carotene, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate (a chelated source of Zinc), Vitamin E supplement, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate (a chelated source of Iron), Manganese Proteinate (a chelated source of Manganese), Calcium Proteinate (a chelated source of Calcium), Niacin Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Cobalt Proteinate (a chelated source of Cobalt), Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Copper Proteinate (a chelated source of Copper), Thiamin Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K activity). Guaranteed Analysis for
Re: Bramble and nutrition
Hi Michelle, I wonder if you could find broth with no sodium as some sort of specialty food for people who can't tolerate sodium in their diets. You're going to have to spend some time in the grocery store checking labels! Bramble won't eat the better brands of cat food? Wysong has an all-meat canned product, (I haven't tried it), that you add supplements to. Have you tried babyfood yet? Of course, that has to be supplemented too. I don't know if you have the same brands as we do, or if they contain the same things, for that matter, but you want to make sure and get meat baby food that doesn't contain anything but meat and broth. If he's been doing well with chicken, I'd stick to that at first. Gerbers has corn starch, (which Bramble doesn't need), Beechnut is the one I buy. How's he doing with the scratching? Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the info on nutrition and supplements. Unfortunately for Bramble I am unable to cook it for him myself or make broth etc... as I am vegan and can only just manage scraping fish out of a tin (which he isn't eating) or breaking up ready cooked chicken, or emptying food out of a packet. I couldn't handle raw meat as the sight of the chicken still in bird shape or the blood that goes with it would have me constantly in tears and physically vomiting. I wish I could do it for him but I just can't. I will definitely get him some supplement in his diet though if he continues refusing anything other than chicken. So if anyone knows of any way of making any nutritous broth from chicken that only involves ready prepared chicken and none raw stuff that is not resembling the shape of the animal or bird then please share. Michelle, Bramble, Minstrel Buddy
Re: Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please
My guys stuck their noses up at Wellness too. I just bought Triumph canned and my guys seem to like every flavor so far. It doesn't contain meat by-products, or veggies, but it does have rice flour and guar gum. Nina Gloria Lane wrote: I just tried Eagle Pack, but again, having trouble getting my guys to eat it! Any suggestions? Gloria On Jun 21, 2005, at 12:51 PM, tamara stickler wrote: Kerry, Personally speaking, my cats did better on Wellness than Royal Canin. They like(d) both tho. I now feed Eagle Pack (because of Coebeio's allergies-she does better on it), BUT, I use other high quality cat foods, Wellness...Royal Canin, Wysong, Newmans, as treats instead of buying the more expensive cat treats that are basically just corn and by-products. Besides...two 6lb bags will last you 12 months or more...for say...$20 total...when cat treats are what(?) $2 per pouch and that only lasts about a week. Just a thought. T Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kerry – my friend is in the distribution business for natural pet food and she knows lots of about lots of different food – I will give her a call and ask her about your question. Hideyo From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Felvtalk- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N. Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:54 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please Hi all Does anyone have any opinion on the quality of Royal Canin dry cat food v. eg Wellness (or for that matter the new Evo)? My vet was extolling its and the company's virtues when I saw him recently and gave me a gratis 6lb bag for my FeLV kitties. (The dry they eat just now is Wellness and all my cats love it so much, and it seems to be doing them good, I'm almost loathe to try them on something else. But I could use a 6lb free bag.) If you guys think Royal Canin quality is as good as Wellness I will mix it in. If not, I'll pass it on to a shelter. Actually I just went on the web and here are the listed ingreds for both. Wellness looks superior. As an aside, my vet was very impressed by the following Royal Canin RD. Am I being just too cynical in thinking it's toys for the boys syndrome? Anyway, if anyone has any comments I'd love to hear them. I'm continually trying to educate myself on kitty nutrition. Thanks! Kerry Finding the Perfect Kibble Research Indicates: The size, shape and power of a cat's jaw depend on its age, breed and state of health. Nutritional Breakthroughs: Scientific and mechanical studies of kibble texture and elasticity led to the use of a Texturometer. This innovation determines kibble size, shape and thickness as well as elasticity and degree of penetration required for breakage. All contribute to producing the perfect kibble for each cat. Ingredients listed for Royal Canin dry: Chicken meal, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken, corn, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), pea fiber, beet pulp, chicken flavor, powdered cellulose, fish oil, dried egg products, brewers yeast, sodium bisulfate, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, choline chloride, DL-methionine, taurine, natural antioxidant, iron proteinate, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese oxide, calcium pantothenate, manganese proteinate, niacin supplement, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite, vitamin B12 supplement. Guaranteed Analysis for Royal Canin dry: Crude Protein Not less than 32% Crude Fat Not less than 13% Crude Fiber Not more than 4% Moisture Not more than 10% Magnesium Not more than 0.095% Taurine Not less than 0.15% Omega 6* Not less than 1.9% Omega 3* Not less than 0.43% Calories (kcal/cup) 316 Ingredents listed for Wellness dry: Salmon, Deboned Turkey, Herring Meal, Salmon Meal, Menhaden Fishmeal, Ground Whole Oats, Brown Rice, Dried Whole Eggs, Dried Peas, Canola Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Oil, Chicken Liver, Flaxseed, Cranberries, Blueberries, Taurine, Garlic, Alfalfa Leaf, Dried Kelp, Whole Ground Apples, Whole Ground Sweet Potatoes, Steamed Zucchini, Yucca Schidigera, Chicory Extract, Beta Carotene, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate (a chelated source of Zinc), Vitamin E supplement, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate (a chelated source of Iron), Manganese Proteinate (a chelated source of Manganese), Calcium Proteinate (a chelated source of Calcium), Niacin Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Cobalt Proteinate (a chelated source of Cobalt), Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Copper
Bramble scratching
Bramble has been doing well with the scratching thanks- his skin has improved a lot - only a small scab left now and no fur of course bless him. The pill that the vet put him on is doing good for his skin but the steroids will help stop the itch too. It has been a risk assesment really and the pill that he is on has potential long term side effects in some cats in that it can cause diabetes so is still a controversial drug. But also the steroids could have long term side effects but has so many good properties if the risk pays off including helping his skin. But the fact is that withouttaking that risk he was rapidly declining and unfortunately I suspect he won't have a great deal more time left anyway in life due to being in full blown Faidsand has been for 2 years. So I thought it better as did the vet to take the chance as the drugs can offer him comfort and help him to live a comfortable life for what ever time he has left. If the drugs end up making him ill and it becomes time to euthanase after a while then I will accept that as without them he was so so sick and distressed as you know and would probably not have had even this amount of comfort - and would not have even been here if I'd listened to that other vet. I am happy that he getting the best chance possible whilst knowing that if he says enough is enough then I will help him pass over. Always gonna be a sad time as it always is but at least everything possible will have been done. Meanwhile I thank god every morning I wake up to find him plodding along Michelle, Bramble, Minstrel Buddy
Re: Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please
Hey, I'll try it. Been looking around for something to order or buy locally. Thanks so much! Gloria On Jun 21, 2005, at 4:41 PM, Nina wrote: My guys stuck their noses up at Wellness too. I just bought Triumph canned and my guys seem to like every flavor so far. It doesn't contain meat by-products, or veggies, but it does have rice flour and guar gum. Nina Gloria Lane wrote: I just tried Eagle Pack, but again, having trouble getting my guys to eat it! Any suggestions? Gloria On Jun 21, 2005, at 12:51 PM, tamara stickler wrote: Kerry, Personally speaking, my cats did better on Wellness than Royal Canin. They like(d) both tho. I now feed Eagle Pack (because of Coebeio's allergies-she does better on it), BUT, I use other high quality cat foods, Wellness...Royal Canin, Wysong, Newmans, as treats instead of buying the more expensive cat treats that are basically just corn and by-products. Besides...two 6lb bags will last you 12 months or more...for say...$20 total...when cat treats are what(?) $2 per pouch and that only lasts about a week. Just a thought. T Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kerry – my friend is in the distribution business for natural pet food and she knows lots of about lots of different food – I will give her a call and ask her about your question. Hideyo From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Felvtalk- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry N. Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:54 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Opinions wanted on Royal Canin v. Wellness please Hi all Does anyone have any opinion on the quality of Royal Canin dry cat food v. eg Wellness (or for that matter the new Evo)? My vet was extolling its and the company's virtues when I saw him recently and gave me a gratis 6lb bag for my FeLV kitties. (The dry they eat just now is Wellness and all my cats love it so much, and it seems to be doing them good, I'm almost loathe to try them on something else. But I could use a 6lb free bag.) If you guys think Royal Canin quality is as good as Wellness I will mix it in. If not, I'll pass it on to a shelter. Actually I just went on the web and here are the listed ingreds for both. Wellness looks superior. As an aside, my vet was very impressed by the following Royal Canin RD. Am I being just too cynical in thinking it's toys for the boys syndrome? Anyway, if anyone has any comments I'd love to hear them. I'm continually trying to educate myself on kitty nutrition. Thanks! Kerry Finding the Perfect Kibble Research Indicates: The size, shape and power of a cat's jaw depend on its age, breed and state of health. Nutritional Breakthroughs: Scientific and mechanical studies of kibble texture and elasticity led to the use of a Texturometer. This innovation determines kibble size, shape and thickness as well as elasticity and degree of penetration required for breakage. All contribute to producing the perfect kibble for each cat. Ingredients listed for Royal Canin dry: Chicken meal, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken, corn, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), pea fiber, beet pulp, chicken flavor, powdered cellulose, fish oil, dried egg products, brewers yeast, sodium bisulfate, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, choline chloride, DL-methionine, taurine, natural antioxidant, iron proteinate, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese oxide, calcium pantothenate, manganese proteinate, niacin supplement, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite, vitamin B12 supplement. Guaranteed Analysis for Royal Canin dry: Crude Protein Not less than 32% Crude Fat Not less than 13% Crude Fiber Not more than 4% Moisture Not more than 10% Magnesium Not more than 0.095% Taurine Not less than 0.15% Omega 6* Not less than 1.9% Omega 3* Not less than 0.43% Calories (kcal/cup) 316 Ingredents listed for Wellness dry: Salmon, Deboned Turkey, Herring Meal, Salmon Meal, Menhaden Fishmeal, Ground Whole Oats, Brown Rice, Dried Whole Eggs, Dried Peas, Canola Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Oil, Chicken Liver, Flaxseed, Cranberries, Blueberries, Taurine, Garlic, Alfalfa Leaf, Dried Kelp, Whole Ground Apples, Whole Ground Sweet Potatoes, Steamed Zucchini, Yucca Schidigera, Chicory Extract, Beta Carotene, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate (a chelated source of Zinc), Vitamin E supplement, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate (a chelated source of Iron), Manganese Proteinate (a chelated source of Manganese), Calcium Proteinate (a chelated source of
