Re: [Finale] OT: Composition for the non-musical
At 9/13/2005 07:40 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: The folks who wrote the algorithm seem to me not to know enough about musical style(s) to be able to design something that will produce reasonable results. They seem to go more for variety and near randomness and ignore harmony almost exclusively, instead of recognizing that music in a particular style is very *conventional* rather than random. For those who don't know, David probably does, Wolfram is the guy behind Mathmatica. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: Finale manuals on eBay
I noticed some manuals for the Windows version of Finale 3.0 on eBay (for all of you whose dog ate your old manuals). Item number 4575561314 on eBay-- Morris Inouye[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] 2007 feature request
How about regional control of HP styles? Would others find this helpful? Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007 feature request
Chuck Israels wrote: How about regional control of HP styles? Would others find this helpful? Chuck I thought we had this now, with the Apply HP plug-in? Isn't that how it's supposed to work -- select a region, set HP as you want it and then apply it, then select a different region, set HP differently as you wish, then apply it? I haven't messed with it, but that's what I thought it was supposed to do. Or are you asking for adding HP definition to staff-styles capability, so we can more easily edit it and apply a staff-style which would define HP to do something like swing, and then apply a different staff-style with HP set to play straight, so that Green Dolphin Street or Night In Tunisia sorts of pieces would work? Definitely worth a feature request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007 feature request
On Sep 14, 2005, at 8:48 AM, dhbailey wrote: Chuck Israels wrote: How about regional control of HP styles? Would others find this helpful? Chuck I thought we had this now, with the Apply HP plug-in? Isn't that how it's supposed to work -- select a region, set HP as you want it and then apply it, then select a different region, set HP differently as you wish, then apply it? Well, shiver me timbers! Dumb me. I must explore this. Thank you David. I haven't messed with it, but that's what I thought it was supposed to do. Or are you asking for adding HP definition to staff-styles capability, so we can more easily edit it and apply a staff-style which would define HP to do something like swing, and then apply a different staff-style with HP set to play straight, so that Green Dolphin Street or Night In Tunisia sorts of pieces would work? Yeah, that's it, but maybe the plug in can do this. I'll try it. I just didn't know this was available. Staff styles might be a good way to implement this, as that tool is already set up for partial measure selection, and that kind of fine control would be a good thing. There are many circumstances in which a few notes need to swing, and a few need to be played straight, or a melody needs gentle swing and eighth notes in a simultaneous bass line need to be straight. This happens constantly in the kind of music I play and write, and I have become inured to the fact that Finale's playback does not express this kind of nuance. Being able to get it closer to actual jazz musician practice would be helpful in demonstrating problematic passages to players. Finale has been an enormous asset to me as I dig deeper into refining the rhythmic language of my music. I can sometimes imagine more than I can conveniently translate into notation for others to understand. Finale allows successive attempts at getting the rhythms right, and I've learned a lot from the process. Most of the time, it is possible for me to create understandable notation which will play back what I am imagining, but to get it really close would require the kind of control we are discussing here, and it would add to the luxury of being able to check my work with playback. I am much more a notation guy than a playback guy, but Finale's improvements in this area represent a boon to my productivity. I will play with the plug in and see what it can do before making any requests. thanks again, Chuck Definitely worth a feature request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Composition for the non-musical
On 14 Sep 2005 at 6:52, Phil Daley wrote: At 9/13/2005 07:40 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: The folks who wrote the algorithm seem to me not to know enough about musical style(s) to be able to design something that will produce reasonable results. They seem to go more for variety and near randomness and ignore harmony almost exclusively, instead of recognizing that music in a particular style is very *conventional* rather than random. For those who don't know, David probably does, Wolfram is the guy behind Mathmatica. He's also the man behind the grand unified theory that all sorts of apparent complexity are the result of simple processes. This suggests to me that they are attempting to show the same thing with their music generator, but it seems to me that their source processes are just much too simple to produce the results they are seeking. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007 feature request
On 14 Sep 2005 at 7:55, Chuck Israels wrote: How about regional control of HP styles? Would others find this helpful? That's one of the things I said would be a good idea, starting with the ability to turn off HP interpretation of a region. I suggested staff styles as the best way to implement it. But to me, it would be much better to have control over the HP dictionary of what gets interpreted (and in many cases, the details of how it gets interpreted). -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007 feature request
On 14 Sep 2005 at 9:13, Chuck Israels wrote: On Sep 14, 2005, at 8:48 AM, dhbailey wrote: Chuck Israels wrote: How about regional control of HP styles? Would others find this helpful? Chuck I thought we had this now, with the Apply HP plug-in? Isn't that how it's supposed to work -- select a region, set HP as you want it and then apply it, then select a different region, set HP differently as you wish, then apply it? Well, shiver me timbers! Dumb me. I must explore this. Well, I think applying the HP data to an area is not the same thing, because it permanently changes the MIDI data. What happens if you decide to apply *different* HP to a region that already has it applied? Does it re-initialize everything to the original state and start over? Or does it start from the original state and add changes? If it's the latter, then that suggests to me that it would also overwrite manual MIDI data alterations made before applying HP. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Active Layer
Does anybody have this problem? Fin 2006 In the View menu I have no Show Active Layer Only, even though the manual says it should be there. So, if I wish to modify one layer only in one way it can't be done. If I wish to implode three staves, two of which are to go onto the second layer of the top staff, then it can't be done. Has anyone else experienced this, if so, is there a remedy? There is also another stupid bug.- I wished to erase all the chords and only the chords , so that was all I ticked off leaving everything else un-ticked. So what happened? It also erased all my measure numbers make it necessary to enter them all again. With 2006, I am just continuing to work on my arranging, so I haven't much time for experimenting. But so far in my normal work I have been impeded by too many bugs for my liking. John ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Active Layer
On 9/14/05, John Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the View menu I have no Show Active Layer Only, even though the manual says it should be there. This is actually in the Options menu now. There is also another stupid bug.- I wished to erase all the chords and only the chords , so that was all I ticked off leaving everything else un-ticked. So what happened? It also erased all my measure numbers make it necessary to enter them all again. I've never had any problems in Mass Edit, going to 'Clear Items' in the Mass Edit menu, selecting 'Entries' and checking only 'Chords.' This has always left measure numbers alone. Are you selecting the measures before attempting to clear the chords? Try using 'Select All' (command-A or ctrl-A) on the piece before attempting to clear the chords. -- Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com Silence will save me from being wrong (and foolish), but it will also deprive me of the possibility of being right. ~ Igor Stravinsky ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007 feature request
Well. I'm not sure what is going on, but I don't seem to be able to make this plugin apply different styles to different regions, so I'm back to my original position. Chuck On Sep 14, 2005, at 10:16 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 14 Sep 2005 at 9:13, Chuck Israels wrote: On Sep 14, 2005, at 8:48 AM, dhbailey wrote: Chuck Israels wrote: How about regional control of HP styles? Would others find this helpful? Chuck I thought we had this now, with the Apply HP plug-in? Isn't that how it's supposed to work -- select a region, set HP as you want it and then apply it, then select a different region, set HP differently as you wish, then apply it? Well, shiver me timbers! Dumb me. I must explore this. Well, I think applying the HP data to an area is not the same thing, because it permanently changes the MIDI data. What happens if you decide to apply *different* HP to a region that already has it applied? Does it re-initialize everything to the original state and start over? Or does it start from the original state and add changes? If it's the latter, then that suggests to me that it would also overwrite manual MIDI data alterations made before applying HP. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007 feature request
On 14 Sep 2005 at 12:41, Chuck Israels wrote: Well. I'm not sure what is going on, but I don't seem to be able to make this plugin apply different styles to different regions, so I'm back to my original position. I don't actually have a version of Finale with HP except for the 2005 demo, but it seems to me pretty clear how to do it, and just testing, it seems to work just fine. 1. in playback configuration, you first have to turn OFF HP (but the plugin warns you about that, so I'd be surprised if you missed this step). 2. then you apply the plugin, choosing which areas you want to apply. If you've already got performance data in there, you can clear it or not. Perhaps you already had playback tweaks entered manually and you're not overriding what was there, and so you're not hearing any difference, since most of the original is still there? When I do it, it appears to do exactly what it says. But I still think it would be preferable to have staff styles for this, instead of being required to permanently change the MIDI data. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007 feature request
On Sep 14, 2005, at 1:36 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 14 Sep 2005 at 12:41, Chuck Israels wrote: Well. I'm not sure what is going on, but I don't seem to be able to make this plugin apply different styles to different regions, so I'm back to my original position. I don't actually have a version of Finale with HP except for the 2005 demo, but it seems to me pretty clear how to do it, and just testing, it seems to work just fine. 1. in playback configuration, you first have to turn OFF HP (but the plugin warns you about that, so I'd be surprised if you missed this step). I did miss this! I'll try again. Thanks, Chuck 2. then you apply the plugin, choosing which areas you want to apply. If you've already got performance data in there, you can clear it or not. Perhaps you already had playback tweaks entered manually and you're not overriding what was there, and so you're not hearing any difference, since most of the original is still there? When I do it, it appears to do exactly what it says. But I still think it would be preferable to have staff styles for this, instead of being required to permanently change the MIDI data. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Active Layer
Many thanks, Brad, for putting me wise. I wonder why it was moved from, what I think, is it's most sensible place. I did go searching for it elsewhere, but when it came to Options I thought Na! It couldn't be there, so I didn't bother looking. The other problem, with not being able to erase chords only, still persists, I'm afraid. I'm pretty sure it didn't do it last week. Don't you just hate it when these querks pop up out of nowhere! Anyway, many,many thanks, once again. John Hughes - Original Message - From: Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Active Layer On 9/14/05, John Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the View menu I have no Show Active Layer Only, even though the manual says it should be there. This is actually in the Options menu now. There is also another stupid bug.- I wished to erase all the chords and only the chords , so that was all I ticked off leaving everything else un-ticked. So what happened? It also erased all my measure numbers make it necessary to enter them all again. I've never had any problems in Mass Edit, going to 'Clear Items' in the Mass Edit menu, selecting 'Entries' and checking only 'Chords.' This has always left measure numbers alone. Are you selecting the measures before attempting to clear the chords? Try using 'Select All' (command-A or ctrl-A) on the piece before attempting to clear the chords. -- Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com Silence will save me from being wrong (and foolish), but it will also deprive me of the possibility of being right. ~ Igor Stravinsky ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] FinMac 2k6 Multimeasure rest probs in older files
Title: FinMac 2k6 Multimeasure rest probs in older files I'm on FinMac2k6 but I'm working on a performance part that was orginally created in FinMac2k2. I can't get the multimeasure rest create to work. I've already installed the new Finale 2k6 default Maestro files and checked out the knowledge base but still no go. My file has got a number of staves and I've used staff styles extensively eg blank, no notation etc. I've tried changing my staff styles back to normal by first clearing staff style and then applying the default style. Still no m/m rest. When I open a new default file in FinMac2k6 and apply multimeasure rest create it works. Anybody know of probs with multimeasure rests in FinMac2k6 and if any workarounds? PPCG4 1.25 GHz DP FW800 OSX 10.3.9 FinMac2k6 -- cheers, Claudio Claudio Pompili composer, sound designer, music consultant http://www.claudiopompili.net.au/ (**2002-2003 Golden Web Award**) AMC http://www.amcoz.com.au ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Ossia frustration FinMac 2005b
Hello List Folk, I have a frustrating problem with the Ossia tool. The source measure contains the following: e e q(tie)e 8th rest e e The first four notes are slurred, as are the last two. When I create the ossia, it strips the tie and the slurs. Is this a bug, or have I missed something? TIA, Stephen -- ars est longa, vita brevis Stephen Cronin's home page: http://www.stephen.cronin.name ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Ossia frustration FinMac 2005b
On 15 Sep 2005 at 9:35, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a frustrating problem with the Ossia tool. The source measure contains the following: e e q(tie)e 8th rest e e The first four notes are slurred, as are the last two. When I create the ossia, it strips the tie and the slurs. Is this a bug, or have I missed something? I don't know why the Ossia tool doesn't display the tie and slurs, but that appears to be the way it works. I tested in WinFin 2003 and the 2005 demo, and both omitted the tie and slurs. I have mostly found the Ossia tool useless, and this is one of the reasons why. It's also remarkably obtuse, requiring that you indicate the source staff by number, even though the only place you can see the staff numbers are in staves with no staff name defined or by using the Staff Usage dialog, which does not inidicate the name of the staves with names. This is the kind of thing that drives people to use Sibelius, because it's a completely unnecessary complication of UI -- you should be able to simply point and click at the measure you want as the source for the Ossia. And that it doesn't actually include essential musical elements like ties and slurs shows that it just wasn't designed well, seems to me. Why would you want the Ossia tool to not display everything in the musical text of the source measure? It's obvious why you might not display key signatures or time signatures or bar lines, because those are not the musical content and can easily be inferred from context. But the other things just don't make sense to be omitted, though the *option* to omit them might be nice (as you have an option to omit expressions, for instance). I suspect that this is one of those neglected tools that has always been so badly designed that everyone gives up on it, and MakeMusic never hears any requests for fixing it, since it's so useless that nobody ever wants to bother to ask them to make it work right. I think most people use embedded graphics (EPS on Mac and TIF on Windows) for this purpose. Yes, no, maybe? -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Ossia frustration FinMac 2005b
The ossia tool is completely worthless. Just create another staff, and use staff styles to hide everything except the ossia measures. Or graphics, as David suggests. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 14 Sep 2005, at 9:38 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: I think most people use embedded graphics (EPS on Mac and TIF on Windows) for this purpose. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Ossia frustration FinMac 2005b
At 09:47 PM 9/14/05 -0400, Darcy James Argue wrote: The ossia tool is completely worthless. Just create another staff, and use staff styles to hide everything except the ossia measures. That's what I do, too. I didn't know this tool was so despised. I just thought I never could get the hang of it. :) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2k6 Multimeasure rest probs in older files
At 06:41 PM 09/14/2005, Claudio Pompili wrote: I'm on FinMac2k6 but I'm working on a performance part that was orginally created in FinMac2k2. I can't get the multimeasure rest create to work. I've already installed the new Finale 2k6 default Maestro files The default files have no effect on already-existing files -- they only affect new documents. My file has got a number of staves and I've used staff styles extensively eg blank, no notation etc. I've tried changing my staff styles back to normal by first clearing staff style and then applying the default style. Still no m/m rest. Using the Mass Edit tool, select the range of measures and hit Clear. This will make sure that the measures are truly empty. Then use the Measure tool to create the MM rest. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
