[Finale] 2010a pref file not loading when 2-click doc
anyone else getting this (mac)? if i start finale by by 2-clicking on the document in the finder the prefs file doesn't load. i change pref settings (folder locations, for e.g.), save the prefs and see that the prefs file in User/Library/Preferences remains unchanged. if i open the app directly it loads and the prefs file is affected. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
funny how that works. wait a day and it only takes 15min... 8-) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinaleScript for Dummies..
I want to batch format 30 music files at once, making a change in page format. ah right, yeah finale script is the way to go. i only recently started looking into this and find it a huge pain to understand. what is needed is a list compiled of possible commands; the format they have chosen works for a general user manual but when writing code, the thinking is entirely different. glancing through the documentation, here are a few commands that could be of use in building the script. once in the layout tool, run the script. i am looking into this, so the following is not the final script, just a few ideas that could be used for it; let me know what you come up with as well. source batch folders Users/Folder/Subfolder select window Edit Page Margins type 00 near Top tab type 00 tab type 00 tab type 00 click radio All Pages this doesn't allow for different margins on facing pages... yet. -- another option? set the margins in the document that is to be the master, redefine all pages to make sure everything is ok and then run the following (also not verified): batch process the folder import page format for score from main document i'm trying to find out how to apply redefine all pages of current score/part... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] improve speed of finale (mac)
hey any tips would be welcome. i'm trying to improve the speed of finale and my computer, i'm on a mac mini (1.42) and will be probably for another year or so until i get a fast new machine. finale 2010 seems a bit more of a hog than 2008, and i really noticed it on a recent job, a score using metatool-applied shape expressions, and therefore the shape selection palette had like 7000 (or some other obscene number) copies of various things, mostly identical (this functioning is one of the things i hate about finale, just thought you should know). i have removed many plugins i don't use already, but is there anything else that can be done to make things run faster? working in scroll view is supposed to be faster, but i don't find that working in scroll view works very well, for my needs, since everything i place on the page is intended to be the final version and not need to ever be moved, except in the final cleanup of the score/layout. is there anything i can disenable, rearrange, switch or whatever to improve the performance in general of finale? anything system-related would also be appreciated. i'm cleaning out the HD and usually try to keep as few apps open as possible while working on finale. also making an effort to reboot more often, like at least once a week 8-) cheers, jef ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] improve speed of finale (mac)
hey eric, thanks. As a Mac Mini owner, the single best thing to speed up the mini is to NOT use the internal drive. Move everything to a firewire or usb2 drive. Everything meaning the OS, apps, etc. You will have a huge jump in speed right away. http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/ has this tip and others. wow! never heard of that but i guess trying it can't hurt, although moving the OS seems a bit radical and frightens me 8-) Second, max out the memory. yeah i maxed the thing out everywhere i could when i bought it, my understanding was this was the only way to make the mini worth buying if you really used it professionally. Third, though OS X supposedly does defragmentation on the hard drive, a good tool like iDefrag or Speedtools can ensure that you have contiguous space on your drive for temp files, so the hard drive head isn't moving all over the place. seem to remember not being able to get iDefrag to work... but will look into it again. Forth, keep the system up to date. Honestly, unlike Microsoft, every recent OS X version has been more and more optimized, so there is a noticeable speed increase between 10.4 and 10.5, and obviously between 10.5 and 10.6 (if you have an Intel mac to run it on). ok, thanks, this is a great tip. i hate upgrading, there is always things to correct / change that take up too much time for me, but knowing this just might get me to finally go for 10.5 (don't have intel). ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] tamburo corrupt, where to get new version?
where can you get this font these days? according to fontbook the font table directory in Tamburo.suit is corrupted. i looked online, there is info saying tamburo is a finale font, but i don't remember it ever coming as part of the package... and it isn't in the 2010 installation disc. anyone know where i can get a version of this font? or even a PDF showing a chart of what characters are available in it, maybe i don't really need it... i don't remember where or when exactly i got it, it was years ago. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinaleScript for Dummies..
if only in one doc, layout tool On the Mac... 2009 All that I want to do is change margins. Can't seem to find a simple explanation of loading the format to be used. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: storing old projects
fireplace? or manilla envelopes is easy, don't know if they come in a format that would help you though.you could probably make your own folders out of thick card stock, you can buy them in large sheets, like 23x36 inches or something. a bit of string to holf them shut and you're set. I'm tired of using an old laundry basket to store completed projects written on large pieces of manuscript paper (12x18). Anybody using a better method?I would love to store them upright so they're more easily accessible, but I doubt that Staples has anything in stock that I would need. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OSX vs. acrobat for PDF
is there anything i should know about thge differences between these methods of generating PDFs that i don't already know? for example, on screen i notice the OSX stafflines are thicker than when done via acrobat (both versions print equal tihicknesses for all stafflines). there seem to be fewer cases where the stems/noteheads or stems/beam ends don't line up 100% correctly in OSX than in the acrobat versions. acrobat allows me to selectively embed fonts and offers a whole range of options of quality output, while OSX offers none. however, i might consider using it from now on for larger jobs, like printing orchestral parts. cuse, man i saved a lot of time doing it through OSX, since acrobat/finale method has this file overwrite problem. is it a problem related to finale, or a particular version of acrobat? i have acrobat standard 7.0.7. comments? cheers, jef ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Piano Duet Layout
something not entirely clear here, i meant for the horizontal fit, how many measures in each system by having both parts in one system. never done anything like this, but it seems to me linked parts would be great for this. score (2pno) and linked parts (each part). the score gives you an excellent idea of how much music can fit and work for both pages as a whole, but make sure to also check music spacing on pno1 stves and pno2 staves separately to see how the layout will look before finalizing the measures to fit on each system. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] print PDF all (linked) parts
ok, yes, it did for me as well, so the problem is somewhere in finale/acrobat... as johannes points out. the OSX-generated docs are twice as big as the ones through acrobat, and i have distiller set to print at 1200. i guess this is partly because all fonts are enbedded in the OSX version, but i only embed selected fonts with distiller. I'm using the built-in Save as PDF from the OS X print dialog. Works perfectly. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] font problem in PDF
i'm not sure where this problem comes from, maybe someone has a solution. i (mac) sent parts to the orchestra librarian (PC) who sees characters instead of music symbols for noteheads, clefs etc. my distiller settings are to embed all music fonts (subset when under 100%). she sees the same problem with a PDF generated through the OSX dialogue. the conductor didn't have this problem, but i know he has finale installed, and therefore all necessary fonts, on his dumputer. in the short term she is downloading the demo version of finale and so should have the fonts and be able to view/print the parts correctly, but this should not happen and i would like to resolve it. any ideas? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] font problem in PDF
Don't you want to have Acrobat Embed all fonts rather than the subset? i leave common fonts like times and arial out of the embed list. although the fact that some of these fonts actually look different on mac and pc makes me rethink this idea... initially i only selectively embedded fonts to reduce document size, but i guess this shouldn't realy be so much of a problem now, the extra fonts don't add so much bloat. That is what I generally set Acrobat to do..though I haven't used it in a while since OS X has built in PDF support. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] print PDF all (linked) parts
am i just like really stoopid or is there really still no way to print all parts in one go in 2010 to PDF? i have acrobat standard 7. if i select more than one part and print, it prints them in succession, but each new part overwrites the previous, since they are all printed using the same title, and apparently not using the name of the part to modify to the title. pff... anyone interested in forming a general boycott of 2011? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] print PDF all (linked) parts
it prints all using the name of the current part. the pdf opens and printing stops until i close the doc. then iot resumes and overwrites with the same file name. i can trick it by moving the pdf once it is open and then closing and renaming it, but what a pain... what are you using to generate PDFs? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: pieces or sig. excerpts based on one or two chords
also a substantial number of blues works, for e.g. john lee hooker - crawlin' king snake and especially boogie chillun' ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] unlink in all parts, move in SC = move in PTs?!
what am i not understanding here? (2010) tempo mark set in score, cmd-nudge to break from parts (or via context menu). move the tempo in the score, check parts, it is still linked and has moved like in the score. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dis-/reappearing tempo markings
found a solution that seems to work, even after closing and reopening a doc several times. select check all staves in the score list dialogue and uncheck top staff for the part. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: pieces or sig. excerpts based on one or two chords
la monte young, composition 1960, #7 depending on how broad your understanding of the chord, there is also scelsi's quattro pezzi su una nota sola (sorry to the italian speakers), 4 movements each having a focal point of a single tone, with microtonal and timbral variations. and perhaps 3rd movement (farben) of schoenberg op16, while the piece is not the same notes throughout the work, the entire movement is structured by a 5-note chord, with each note being changed by a semitone or whole tone in succession, kind of a fluid single chord throughout the work. not the whole work, but the quintessential non-harmonic section of a larger work might be wagner's opening scoene to the rheingold. big fat Eb mother of all chords. ah and this is a great one, x for henry flynt also by young. david tudor did a version for cymbal, i think, at the première. ensemble recherche did quite a good version as well. La Monte Young's Composition 1960 No. 7 consists of two notes, B and F# at the bottom of the treble clef, written as semibreves with ties: this notation is accompanied by the instruction 'to be held for a long time'. Arabic Numeral (Any Integer) to H.F. (April 1960), popularly known as X for Henry Flynt, requires the performer to repeat a loud, heavy sound every one to two seconds as uniformly and as regularly as possible for a long period of time. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: pieces or sig. excerpts based on one or two chords
not the whole work, but the quintessential non-harmonic section of a larger work might be wagner's opening scoene to the rheingold. big fat Eb mother of all chords. yes, it is true, the part of jef's brain that allows him to read is currently not functioning. please check back later to see if we can correct that. Matthew Hindson (gmail) wrote: So far I have: Wagner: Prelude to Das Rheingold (Eb major) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] dis-/reappearing tempo markings
i can't figure this one out (2010). i'm cleaning upo the parts of an orch score and 2 of the 3 temp markings in the score (all stored in the tempo marks category) are not showing on some new parts. fl1 and 2 were ok (all instr. separate staves in score), then fl3 was missing them. i checked obs and clars and they were missing there as well. fl1 and 2 were still ok (the tempos in question have been moved in the parts). went to check/edit the staff list in the category/positioning window, everything seemed fine, checked fl3 in the pt column... and the thing reappearedc everywhere. then i reset the staff list to top of SC / top of PT, everything still seemed fine. now i'm in the obs and the trhing has disappeared again any ideas? or is this just (another goddamn) bug? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dis-/reappearing tempo markings
all i have to do to get it to reppear is 2-click a measure, click on the edit categories button, and cancel/cancel back to the score...!?! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dis-/reappearing tempo markings
now expressions disappearing randomly throughout the parts. this is getting really worrisome. i wonder sometimes just how much i should be trusting finale anymore... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dis-/reappearing tempo markings
ah fantastic, when i do get them to reappear they lose all the positioning adjustments i amde... is it just me...? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] dis-/reappearing tempo markings
i seem to remember hearing somewhere that it might be related to time sig attached expressions... i'll change them tomorrow to left barline attached and see if that works. This was happening to me in 2009 if I recall. But only randomly, and only in one particular file. It is worrying. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] you can't be serious... (tobias?!?!?!)
goddammit!! i had read the version history and not the main page, so i thought 2.45b was the latest version. hooley, thanks! You need the latest version of TGTools that's compatible with expressions in Finale 2009. Sounds like you're using an older version. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] you can't be serious... (tobias?!?!?!)
(grumblegrumblegrumblegrumblegrumblegrumble) new version of TGTools works as expected... fuu-cryinoutloud. man, i just finished most of the work i needed it for ARGH!!! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] show/hide in linked parts (2010)
for some reason, cmd-ctl top pull up the menu isn't working, is this a bug? i'm trying to hide score-specific titles in the parts and what worked in 2008 is not working for me here. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] show/hide in linked parts (2010)
jesus christ, they took an already not-entirely-functional tool and made it worse?!?! how do you get around it? and any related things i might not have come across yet? The override key doesn't work on the contextual menus in Fin2009 and 2010. I hate it too. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] show/hide in linked parts (2010)
manual sez it should The override key doesn't work on the contextual menus in Fin2009 and 2010. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] pfffffffff... selecting systems in layout tool (2010)
it used to be possible to click on systems and have the edit box show the margins etc. of the selection... when i od this now, it works for the 1st time, then it doesn't work (unless i switch tools and back!!!), or clicking anywhere gives me the edit box for system 5?!?! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] pfffffffff... selecting systems in layout tool (2010)
jesus, this is spectacular, i can't insert a page break wityhout switching out of the page layout tool and giong back, if i have edited ant system margins... it used to be possible to click on systems and have the edit box show the margins etc. of the selection... when i od this now, it works for the 1st time, then it doesn't work (unless i switch tools and back!!!), or clicking anywhere gives me the edit box for system 5?!?! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] grrrrrrrrrrr... tempo markings only on top staff!?!??!?!
this is nuts. to take advantage of the categories (which i must say i find absolutely spectacular) you can only assign an expression to score or score and parts, and you can/t force it to appear on for example, the top of the violin I stave in the score without creating a new identical expression and storing it in a different category?!?!?! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] updating
man holy crap, let me add my voice to that, i am really smashing my head against the wall here with 2010, but was able to at least work in 2008. 2010 is seriously screwing me for an upcoming deadline. since i am unfamiliar as i should be with 2010 i would have done this job in 2008, if it weren't for the fact that the score was done in 2009. Thanks to all of you for your posts on Finale 2010, with and without Mac Snow Leopard. Thanks to all of the reported problems, I've decided to stay put with Finale 2008 (took me years to upgrade to that from Finale 2003) and Mac OSx.5.8. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] pfffffffff... selecting systems in layout tool (2010)
I've seen some crazy dynamic markings, but pf is a new one to me! hey man, it's called new music (yuk yuk yuk) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] grrrrrrrrrrr... tempo markings only on top staff!?!??!?!
no jef, staff list is available through positioning section of the categories, yeah yeah yeah. look before you scream 8-) this is nuts. to take advantage of the categories (which i must say i find absolutely spectacular) you can only assign an expression to score or score and parts, and you can/t force it to appear on for example, the top of the violin I stave in the score without creating a new identical expression and storing it in a different category?!?!?! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] show/hide in linked parts (2010)
so... cmd-sh-h hides in all when in score or part cmd-opt-sh-h hides in current part when in part cmd-opt-sh-h hides in all when in score (here is the error?) cmd-sh-h makes text hidden in all when in score if text block is hidden cmd-sh-h does nothing when in part if text block is hidden hm... my god. there seeems to be no user-friendly system in there, i tried all sorts of series of commands... i did find this though: hide in SC only: from a 100% linked text in the SC, cmd-sh-opt-u (context menu unlink in all parts), then cmd-opt-sh-h hide in PT only: in PT, cmd-opt-sh-h but yeah, not possible to use one key stroke to hide in all parts, which is a drag for orchestral works with text blocks that are only for the SC title page. The override key doesn't work on the contextual menus in Fin2009 and 2010. I hate it too. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] show/hide in linked parts (2010)
ah! one solution, drag the SC text off page, THEN unlink it and drag it back onto the score page. this also solves the problem of frames not being hidden in parts that belong to unshown text. yeah! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] you can't be serious... (tobias?!?!?!)
Try mousing the TG tools menu to get it to work. nope, it don't work still. i tried different settings in the TG options, i simply can't get this to work, but it has worked perfectly for me up to 2008 (i never used 2009). i'm using EngraverFontSet, and even added this in the list of extra fonts to recognize. is everyone else using 2010 able to use this function? it would be good to know, maybe it is due to something on my end (OSX.4.11), so please let me know if you can use this successfully, either by key commands or via the menus. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] finale script repository
is there a repository of scripts somewhere? is anyone interested in contributing to such a thing so that finale users can find and share scripts? it seems to me that many users would likely use some of the same scripts. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] finale help maxes out system on mac/FF?
mac OSX.4.11 with firefox when i have the finale help page open all available CPU gets gobbled up by FF, seemingly worse than any other pages i've viewed, even with heavy javascript. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] you can't be serious... (tobias?!?!?!)
TGTools align dynamics doesn't work in 2010!?!?! um... wow. that's a serious bummer, isn't it? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] you can't be serious... (tobias?!?!?!)
shit, really? i've tried all the key combos i remember working normally (cmd-*, cmd-opt-*, cmd-opt-minus/plus) and none work properly, the hairpins are affected but not the dynamics. Align Dynamic works fine in 2010, but some others don't (Transfer Layout - an essential timesaver for linked parts), but Tobias claims he is working on an update for this. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: midi versions of nancarrow studies?
does anyone know if these exist? and what would be involved in preparing (in finale) and playing a couple of them in concert (playback over loudspeakers)? would a midi version constitute a new adaptation of the work, what are the implications of this? etc. etc. etc. studies are published by schott. apparently carlos sandoval (nancarrow's assistant in the 90s) has midi versions... for sale... for 2000 eur... cheers, jef ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Eliminating pencil markings in scanned music? Graphics Experts...
photoshop, eraser tool (click e on keyboard) at 200% (or more) magnification (click + shift to constrain to horizontal/vertical). for larger sections and/or multiple areas you can also use the marquee tool (m) and control-click (menu) to fill with white 100%: select a region (click-drag mouse); shift-click-drag to add a region to the one already selected; opt-click-drag to de-select portions of the selected region. with a marquee selection you can ctl-click for a menu item free transform after which you can rotate the area freely using the mouse. this is good for using the marquee tool along straight lines that are not 100% horizontal/vertical. i just finished 24 pieces for orch, 52 parts from scans of graphics and text. involved cutting up the score into bits (graphics and text blocks) used by 1) all and 2) individual instruments, correcting (rotating) scans that were slightly angled and also portions within a page that were not properly aligned when glued to the page that was scanned, cleaning up smudge marks, reducing/eliminating unused portions of the staff to save space and more... contact me off-list if you go this way and need pointers for using photoshop. you can also fix things in the score (lines that appear poorly in the scan, graphic errors, moving a system up or down for more space, etc.) with a bit more knowledge of the programme, but the techniques listed above are really easy to learn, even if you have never used photoshop before. not that i'm an expert but i learned a lot about the programme recently and it made a job much easier than i imagined it could have been. I have some old Facsimile photocopies of 18th century parts, which are partly marked up in pencil (the photocopies, so the pencil is pencil and not photocopy). I am wondering whether I could scan these parts and, using a Graphics application, eg Photoshop (Elements) to erase the pencil markings only without touching the print/photocopy. Is this possible? How would I do this? I have experimented a little but so far not found a way of achiving this. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Eliminating pencil markings in scanned music? Graphics Experts...
having used the programme extensively recently, something like this should be possible i would think, but someone with more experience with the programme might know better. i didn't deal with colour at all. you can try to adjust things with the levels after converting to greyscale (if you haven't already). this way you can set the programme to interpret everything below a certain level as white and above as black. but the results are not always so pretty... and it can make things quite grainy, so probably a big staedtler and a pot of coffee is your best solution. viel spaß dabei! I was actually hoping to find a toll which could distinguish (by colour I guess) the pencil markings from the print, and simply take them out for me. If that is not possible I will have to clean them before I scan them. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Somewhat OT: How marked-up can/should rental parts be?
i seem to remember having come across catalogues online with rental prices but all the catalogues i saved back when looking at this same sort of thing are without rental prices listed... but maybe i am remembering having access to prices through a job i had in an arts library. i remember not seeing any example of parts costing more than 1000 (eur/usd) to rent. this price ceiling is what large-scale opera and some major orchestral works will cost. there can be 2nd performance (75%) and even 3rd performance (50%) discounts within a certain timeframe (a season?). mmm, i think the point at which sales become rentals is usually 15 performers: less = parts for sales, more = parts for rent. or maybe it was 10 performers... i know of one national music centre that waives rental fees if the composer requests this to be done for a particular group for economic or other reasons. for first performances i believe the rental fee is usually not charged. some ensembles/orchs will rent parts, receive the package, photocopy the material and their own markings made on the photocopies; when/if they play the piece again, they order/pay for the parts rental, leave the package unopened, perform from their copies and send the unopened package back after the performance. probably the best would be to speak to your friendly neighbourhood music librarian, they have no reason to not disclose the prices. you can also simply put in a pricing request for a number of works to any publisher who refuses to disclose prices to you another way. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Somewhat OT: How marked-up can/should rental parts be?
also, i have never heard of clean up charges actually being applied, although i'm sure sometimes they are. i think the pricing is used to encourage the body renting the parts to return them free of markings under the threat of exorbitant clean up fees if the publisher has to do it. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] graphic programme (mac) for cut/paste scores
I'm trying to picture playing an orchestra piece lasting 5 hours! Professionals would be governed by union rules requiring breaks, except for opera orchestras which probably have different rules (and a higher pay scale) for 5-hour operas. Amateurs, students, or community orchestra musicians wouldn't have the chops to keep playing for 5 hours in the first place! 1) it isn't in north america 2) it isn't written for amateurs 3) the musicians will not be playing for 5hrs straight all together :-) yes indesign seems to be the way to go, thanks chris ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] graphic programme (mac) for cut/paste scores
i am about to start a project and am hoping to get some suggestions for a programme to use for this project that can combine text and images and allows editing to both. the score will be scanned and dissected to make parts (it is NOT going to be possible to do this in finale). i will need to organize materials the musicians play into parts as well as provide graphic information and musical/textual cues to let them know where they are in the piece. the piece is for orchestra and lasts 5hrs... organized in about 30 movements. there are movements in which i will be able to reuse graphic and text materials across different instruments and i will also be reusing text elements in a general sense (page/piece numbers and text indication), so a programme that allows for the storage of libraries (reusable elements) will be very useful. i use illustrator already but it only does one page at a time. suggestions? cheers, jef ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Comparing notation systems
this is an entirely unfair judgement of free or open source software (FOSS). there is no written or unwritten law that states that FOSS has to invent new objects (or ideas). in lilypond's case the goal would seem to be to offer the user an alternate working space / method to the established commercial software giants finale and sibelius, for notating music of the past (so far no real commitment to new music on their part), based on established notational principles. the objects lilypond (in this case) is used to produce are common to all notation programmes: a decent reproduction of an existing or newly created score. how well any of these software in fact do respond to the needs or the underlying political differences of commercial and FOSS is an entirely different discussion. FOSS offers the possibility of an extremely short turnaround in fixing bugs and implementing new or better features truly based on users' needs than pretty much any available commercial software. and i am not saying this always happens, eudora is a prime example of FOSS gone wrong. or perhaps on vacation... This is one of the issues with open source software projects that you see all the time -- they don't have new ideas of their own, they are copying from or reacting to the implementations in the past. This means that in many cases, the open source project retains structural mistakes in thinking inherent in the models they use (or anti-models, if you will). When you choose a model instead of rethinking the problem from scratch, you end up with problems of imperfect modelling -- e.g., the copy is worse than the original because, even though it rectifies some of the problems in the original, it fails to implement many of the aspects that the persons doing the copying failed to notice. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] (no subject)
Look up Staff Lists in the manual. actually i think he need to look up optimization... or the layout tool. Can u hide staves from the display to save screen space ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] (no subject)
Maybe so, but I thought he was simply talking about screen space while working in Finale, not the final look on the page. I may have misinterpreted the question. or i did... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked parts--yes or no?
Yes. However, if you have either of these: - hairpins this depends on the nature of your score. you can selectively hide in SC and PTs if there are only a few problematic places. hairpins are not the general problem johannes suggests. - cues i have posted a couple of times before a way to use staff styles to get around this problem in linked parts. normally i would look it up and re-post but it's late and i'm drunk. check the archives. there are serious inadequacies in finale's linked parts but they won't affect every user. and i repeat, and will continue to repeat as needed: many misunderstandings when encountering linked parts for the first time can be (re)solved by reading and re-reading the manual chapter on linked parts, in particular pp. 37-5 and 37-7 (F 2007), as i recall, which were until very recently tacked up on the corkboard next to my workspace and only removed because of a sublet... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
Btw, is there any other serious notation software still on the market which can compare to Finale or Sibelius? score, if the owner ever gives in and lets someone else at the code. the recent lng-awaited windows version was an absolute disaster. noteability, although development is slow (small research team at univ british columbia) it is really solid and the upgrade i saw from the first version was remarkable. lilypond (open source) is still around and improving, it seems, although the documentation is as arrogant as ever and bases its arguments on finale's default files, not what it can actually be made to do. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
i had a quick look through an article on linuxsomethingorother.org and there are a couple of apps that provide a GUI but have no idea how sophisticated they are. Does lilypond still have no user interface? Er, I mean, is it still completely command-line based? I just don't see using a non-GUI app for producing notation. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
well, *you* can give up (on) the thread -- i dont see any reason for the thread itself to be given up -- or you can look up the fairly common terms used in this thread, or you can ask the kind people on the list what the terms mean that you don't understand, or you can look up lilypond and see how it differs from programmes you know, or... Does lilypond still have no user interface? Er, I mean, is it still completely command-line based? I just don't see using a non-GUI app for producing notation. I try and follow these technical discussions but surely it's time to give up a thread when the words contained in the reply might as well be in Swahili for all that I can comprehend them. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
Do you recall if these GUIs run on any actual desktop OS's, er, I mean, on something other than Linux? don't think so, but have to admit my perusal of this has been rather superficial, no time at the moment http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/music-notation-software-linux-progress-report-part-1 I can't help but think that slapping a GUI on a command-line app is not exactly going to produce an elegant user interface. nope, sure don't look that way in this case. i would imagine that depends on the developer, or at least i would assume so... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
Does anyone have any background on a number of notation programs which are virtually unknown in the U.S. but seem to have dedicated followers elsewhere, sometimes quite nationally based? berlioz / france. is now free, owner want to make it open source and is looking for develppers ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: What's a Mike Fisher and where can i buy one?
don't know about film studio practices but there are some New Music scores that show the same kind of treatment because specific performers were so crucial to the first performance / recording that the names of the performers instead of the instruments were indicated in the score. notably, i've seen this in nono's prometeo and not only are the instrument names missing in the score, but so are many, many indications that were worked out while mounting the performance; they were communicated verbally and often didn't get transcribed back into the score. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
i think this kind of competition will tell more about the skills of individual engravers than the programmes themselves. how can you limit and check the control parameters? time limitations can't be controlled and don't take into account how much time and effort the user has spent on their templates and working space. are other programmes allowed as assistants and to what degree? iKey/QuicKeys for workspace efficiency? illustrator for graphics? font creation programmes? james ingram used finale + graphics programmes + his own (not commericially available) programmes on scores that won important european competitions in his time as a stockhausen slave... er, collaborator, i meant. one programme's ease of use to the new user might be counterbalanced by another's elegance in high-end beyond-publication quality control. i have my developed my own fonts, which as a set are more coherent (for new music notation) than most users' setup in finale / sibelius so score loses here because font use is limited; but score's spacing algorithm is better than other programmes... but i can nudge each individual note with beat charts in finale. but... but... and... but... although... a more interesting task for me would be to develop a competition to see which camp can get more beneficial and widely relevant improvements for the next version of the programmes. well, i won't risk a bet on who the winner would be but there are strong indications that score would be the loser, and by r-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-a-l-l-y far. in fact i'd put a lot of money on that one. -- Daniel Wolf wrote: Some years ago another engraving-oriented list sponsored a competition to see how well various notation programs handled the reproduction of, I believe, two samples of music. If I recall correctly, the organizer of the list who had, it should be noted, a substantial committment to Score basically abandoned the competition, but not until after it had become clear that several Finale users had achieved the best results. That was something of a fiasco, and, given the importance of the individual engraver to high-end usage, was probably bound to be problematic when framed only in terms of comparing software. However, I still think that a comparison of this sort could prove very useful if framed less in terms of a competition than in trying to show how various programs and users deal with specific engraving problems. Would anyone else be interested in organizing such a comparison? At 14:01 -0700 6/29/09, Richard Yates wrote: As the second place finisher (and Finale user) in the competition I can say that there were many methodological problems with the contest despite attempts to minimize them. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: notepad full vs. demo
can anyone tell me if there is a difference between the two version? i am trying to help out a frend (who has the full commercial version) get set up with notepad but i only have the demo. are the following things possible (i can't do with the demo)? - pick-up measures - time sig changes within the document - key changes within the document - improvements to the spacing ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Beaming across staves
patterson tools click, bang, boom! (There's probably an easier way by now, but I've been doing that for too long to have noticed any new method!) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Beaming across staves
i seem to remember doing it back in F2003 select the notes you want beamed, select the Patterson Beam over Barlines PI, just give it a whirl, it's really intuitive, you may need to adjust the settings to your liking. Can you do it with Patterson tools in Finale 2004? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Beaming across staves
Can I do it in Patterson plugins lite? i don't know, why don't you give it a try and let us know. What about cross staves in TGTools? sounds like this is a different thing, have never used it though ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
It's not even on Sibelius' schedule to implement. sibelius policy is to let you know this isn't needed by many users, we won't implement it. but with a smile, direct from the CEOs. finale policy is for some random techie to sometimes to deny the problem exists until they are proven wrong and then maybe let you know that it is documented and maybe some day they will decide to think about considering maybe getting around to fixing it. choose your poison. there are a lot of things each programme can't do. make sure that not only people on the finale list know about your sibelius woes but also the people involved in the development of sibelius. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] notepad 2007 available anywhere?
anyone know of a place to get finale notepad 2007 (freeware)? the MM website lets me search for version 2007 but the results offer only a fontpack update. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: FW: [Finale] notepad 2007 available anywhere?
forgot to mention i need the mac version. jim, the diskmount doesn't work! i get a no mountable file systems when i 2-click the DMG file NP2k8Mac.dmg I have both the Windows and MAC versions of Finale Notepad 2008 on my website if that would help. :) http://www.halerecordings.com/index.php?option=com_docmantask=cat_viewgid= 70Itemid=69 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: first i take san francisco then i take oakland
any bay area people who are interested in getting together for a drink or something i'll be at 21 grand (oakland) wed eve checking out an improv show, starts at 8pm. contact privately: jef chippewa j...@newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Got Finale 2010 today.
So much for a free t-shirt :-) stay tuned for the water bottle ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Got Finale 2010 today.
jeez, doesn't sound like they rushed it out the door at all! isn't there usually a pre-order + rebate period? Just today I received a postcard from MM offering the upgrade to Fin2010 (I'm currently on '09) for $99.95 through September 18, 2009. The card DOES have a code F10U2L to use to get the $20 off. So Daniel: if it's not too late - and the code will work for an upgrade from '08-to-'10: save yourself the $20 on me! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Audacity
manual here, i haven't read it, but maybe the info is there http://en.flossmanuals.net/audacity ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius 6
I'm so glad the paltform wars appear to be over. don't get too excited yet, there is still to come the final installment of the Fin-Sib war as the clans fight over who gets to feed on the charred bodily remains of score... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius 6
Rumors of Score's death are greatly exaggerated. :-) perhaps, but it *is* deathly ill. imagine the last 10 years of finale's bugs, poor implementations and general errors crammed into and you have the new windows version of score, their ONLY upgrade in 10 years. that is pretty much how it sounds on the score list. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] your default file contents
The biggest omissions from your list that I see are Pedal on and off indications for piano i have usually used articulations for this but Ped. is already in the list (sorry, i didn't type it!!)... since we're on the subject, are there any playback functions you assign to them at all? what is your default positioning, the same or lower as the dynamics? and since I primarily work in choral music, indications like choir 1, solo, and tutti. solo and tutti are in the techniques list already. i agree with you on the use of specific libraries, i do the same, but this template isn't for me. my basic settings include a more extensive list of expressions, but here i'm building what should be able to function as a strong default file for a new user or any user who hasn't gotten to the stage of building their own specialized templates / document styles etc., i.e. for all but the power user. thanks for your input! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] your default file contents
looking for your comments and input on what should be included in a basic default file for text expressions. also please point out any errors in spelling or abbreviations and capitalization. comments on point size and font styles as well as ordering also welcome. it doesn't have to be absolutely exhaustive, but should be rather complete for an average user. cheers, jef -- DYNAMICS music font 24pt text font 12pt bold italic through fp fz sf sfz sffz sub. p TEMPOS 14pt bold Larghissimo [playback set to MM=36] Largo [42] Lento [48] Larghetto [60] Adagio [66] Adagietto [72] Andante [76] Andante [96] Moderato[108] Moderato (q = ca. 108) [108] Allegro moderato [120] Allegro [120] Allegro (M.M. = ca. 120) [120] Allegro [132] Vivace [144] Presto [180] Maestoso [???] Tempo 1o a tempo Andante (dotted half = q) (dotted q = q) (8th = q) Swing! 2 8ths = triplet q + 8th TEMPO ALTERATION 14pt italic accel. rall. rit. ritard. rubato più mosso poco più mosso meno mosso TECHNIQUES 12pt normal text (not italic) loco LV LH RH con sord. senza sord. mute choke open arco pizz. sul pont. sul tasto col legno ord. divisi div. div. a 3 unison unis. solo tutti a 2 1. 2. EXPRESSION 12pt italic text cresc. decresc. dim. agitato con brio cantabile dolce espress. legato leggiero legg. marcato meno mosso più mosso ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: need MIDI for chopin nocturne op. 48/1
because i'm lazy and don't want to do it myself 8-) anyone have it? or as a finale doc would be even better. i plan to make a score for myself so i need just the notes, really. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: CALL FOR SCORES - Materials for A Devastated Conservatory
Please send your scores and parts for the victims of the April earthquakes in Italy! The Conservatory in L'Aquila, Italy was leveled in the April earthquakes. All printed music, teaching materials and instruments that were not personally carried out of the buildings were lost forever. To find out if we could be of help, I contacted Patricia Adkins Chiti, President of the Music for the Mind project in Rome that supplies countries in difficulty or at war with music and teaching materials. She wrote: Many persons left their houses in pajamas but with an instrument in hand. Many more lost their instruments. Some didn't make it out of the falling houses. She said that, for the rest of this year, 2009, all donations to Music for the Mind will be for the musicians in the earthquake ravaged region. She asks: Do you have scores and sets of instrumental parts that you can send copies of? We are looking for ALL kinds of music, for all ensembles and at all levels, composed by men or women, dead or alive; the music can be third or fourth hand. We are circulating this request to orchestras, chamber ensembles , individual musicians, publishers and libraries around the world. We are asking all donors to write their names on the scores: this is a way of underlining the purpose for 'Music for the Mind' we care - we share. The Director of the l'Aquila Conservatory said that the arrival of scores will be an injection of optimism for all and will encourage the musicians to pick up their instruments and play. All donations of sheet music need to be sent in hard copy (NO electronic attachments such as pdf files) to the following address: Music for the Mind- l'Aquila Fondazione Adkins Chiti: Donne in Musica Via Riboty 23 00195 Rome Italy http://www.donneinmusica.org ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] importing Score files into Finale
the cost of Score plus the learning curve -- it's quite different from any of the Windows notation programs the version she has of these files is not windows, a disastrous windows version did however finally just come out. i don't know much about it, but it may be possible to move the file forward and perhaps there is some export function now (although the score community is extremely exclusive-minded so i doubt it). try the score list hosted at acadia university. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: extended piano techniques and prepared piano
please forward at will! -- [respond privately: j...@newmusicnotation.com] i'm starting to document (very) extended piano performance techniques with detailed explanations of performance techniques / methods and their resulting sound characteristics, accompanied by photo documentation and hopefully eventually audio documentation. following an introductory text intended to demystify and clarify extended techniques for the piano this resource -- aimed at composers and performers -- will include, among other things, descriptions of various damping / sound alteration techniques and several charts listing the harmonics available on a range of models. at present i wish to extend an open invitation for contributions from composers, performers, musicologists, copyists etc. in the form of: - suggestions of existing print and online references / sources (include comments or annotations if desired) - PDF extracts of scores of works using prepared piano (include notation legend) - comments on the feasibility of specific techniques - anecdotes about performance issues - stories of your encounters with venue managers / piano technicians concerning the use of extended piano techniques or preparations (what happened? why? how was it resolved?) - images of piano preparations, individual piano parts and models and people performing inside the piano - audio (and video if available) examples of various techniques, alone or in a musical context - other as you see fit permissions and copyrights will be cleared as needed at a later date once the material is filtered and selected. all sources used or referred to in any way will be credited appropriately. thanks for your interest! jef chippewa j...@newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] moving entire pages in document
i have a doc that contains several page formats with various kinds of manuscript templates on individual pages. am currently updating the document but want to reorder some of it to keep all letter, A4, legal, tabloid and A3 together and insert new templates at appropriate places. (F2008) is there some easy way to move an individual page including its layout, number of systems, staff/system percentage reductions and staffline spacing, page-specific text blocks and page formats to a different place in the document? or at least part of this? i know TGTools has a copy optimization function, but this is only one part of what i need. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] NEOT: graphic notation exhibition | montréal
not entirely off-topic Hearing Visions Sonares: a multimedia exhibit of graphic scores http://www.mcgill.ca/library-about/events March 21 - August 15, 2009 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: Lancement de PAC / CAP Launch 17-iii-2009
kind of like seriously last minute, but any montréalers that are free this afternoon and are interested in this, please come by. it's what i do in one of my other lives... -- Veuillez faire suivre / Please forward Lancement du Projet d'archivage Concordia (PAC) / Launch of the Concordia Archival Project (CAP) En collaboration avec l'Université Concordia, la Communauté électroacoustique canadienne est heureuse de vous inviter au lancement de la plus importante collection d'¦uvres électroacoustiques canadiennes à être publiée en ligne, le Projet d'archivage Concordia. Nous espérons que vous serez présents à la conférence de presse au cours de laquelle nous présenterons le projet et ses principaux participants. La conférence de presse se terminera par un bref concert d'¦uvres tirées de la collection. The Canadian Electroacoustic Community, in a partnership with Concordia University, is pleased to announce the launch of the largest single collection of Canadian electroacoustic works available online, the Concordia Archival Project. We hope you will be able to attend the Press Conference / Information Session, during which we will present the project and key participants, and a short concert featuring works from the collection. Plus d'info / More info http://cec.concordia.ca/education/archive/launch -- Date et lieu / Date and Location 17 Mar 2009 14:00-18:00 Hexagram Black Box Theatre, Concordia University, Montréal QC 1515 St. Catherine St. West, EV 11-455 (level -3) Horaire / Schedule 14:00 Ouverture / Doors Open - présentations + installations (60x60 canadien, Collection de musique électroacoustique latino-américaine, Interactive Multimedia Playroom) / presentations installations (Canadian 60x60, Latin American Electroacoustic Music Collection, Interactive Multimedia Playroom) 15:00 Conférence de presse et infos / Press Conference and Info Session 16:00 Concert 17:00 Rencontres libres avec les participants / Informal Meet Greet ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Importing from Word to Finale
hahahahahahaha ryan i have a water bottle with your name on it, please send me your address. ... confirming that the changes wouldn't be difficult to implement. Hopefully we'll see a change pretty soon! ... does not equal we care about implementing them sorry for being the eternal f*?ing cynic, but shows like NAMM are for marketing, not action. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: rests in pick up measure
I'd much rather look at examples of engraving that I think are attractive and readable and match *that*, instead of looking up something in a book. ... the book being based in most cases on some form of (mis)interpretation of said examples... ryan, dude... neither finale nor read are gospel, although one of them is a good starting point for the understanding of notation practices and standards. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] [OT] extended characters in sibelius
i use some extended characters for some symbols in fonts i have developed and apparently there is some sort of limit on what sibelius can access. for example, i have the whole rest placed in the (greek character sideways-M) position and it is not accessible in sibelius. anyone have a workaround/solution? apparently fixing the problem is on the sibelius wish list... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Importing from Word to Finale
andrew hath wratten: the easiest and most direct thing is to create the text in Finale in the first place, especially inasmuch as there is almost nothing a commercial word processor can do that Finale's own text engine can't do just as well. to which david hath respondeth: Finale text boxes have adjustable tabs? ... Using different justification for different lines within the same text box? Word-wrap? finale can do what perhaps an important number of users need by the default that most user don't know anything about professionaly typography. this does not mean finale produces professional text output. david's comments i support entirely, with the addition that finale does not actually know what kerning is... and text blocks, shape designer and test expression editor offer different possibilities of control over text formatting. you can centre text in blocks, but not in expressions, as a very basic example. as i have mentioned -- and will continue to mention as necessary -- this is yet another example of finale's insufficient implementation of an otherwise very welcome feature (albeit one that should have been available Y-E-A-R-S ago in a supposedly professional programme offering text editing capabilities). ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Importing from Word to Finale
I've tried a couple of free or shareware PDF-EPS converters. The problem is because the word doc is text, some of these converters don't recognize it as graphics. you can flatten (not sure that is the right term) the text in a PDF with a professional programme so that the text is turned into image maybe too excessive for your needs, but you could do the text in illustrator (or similar) and save as... the individual text blocks as EPS. the resulting EPS are the size of the text block, not the page. you have far greater and easier control over professional-level typography that way, once you know the programme. and of course: complain to finale that they have never sufficiently implemented what was in fact an excellent idea (although one that should have been there from the moment you could input text in the scores). text control is still handled differently (and poorly) in shape and text expressions and page/mm-attached text blocks. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Importing from Word to Finale
as far as i can tell, if you send me a word doc and a PDF of the output i'll test it for you. no reason why it shouldn't, illustrator is far more powerful than word for typography Do you know if Illustrator does Ruby Text (aka Phonetic Guides, aka furigana)? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked Parts (measure numbers)
drag enclose all the bold condensed centred numbers and then drag them way past the bottom of the page in the part. you can hide them which is better i think... if you change the payout, move measures to different systems the numbers might show up on the page. here is what i do. region 1 (parts) - measure #s showing at start of systems region 2 (score) - measures enclosed, showing every 10 measures starting at measure 500 (or more if needed) parts look fine. now: 1) opt-click every 10 measures in score, forcing region 2 to show. this also forces region 1 to show. 2) page by page in score, drag enclose all region 1 numbers and ctl-click, select menu items show/hide based on region 3) go to flute part (or any part staff showing m#s in score) and cmd-sh-H hide all score numbers seems like finicky work maybe, but it is really quick once you get it, and the measure numbers remain unmoved, always in their default position, and you never have to remember to turn a region on or off for printing. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked Parts
adjustments and hairpin widths are the two most obvious. Actually, the latter is the one that really shocks me somewhat. Even if I still have to keep two files in the end production process I would still very much welcome completely independently adjustable hairpins. where needed i add a second hairpin (or other smart shape) and hide accordingly in SC/PT Alas, MakeMusic has stopped listening to my complaints... huh? you mean they listened before? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked Parts
But but...they have T-Shirts man! Come on! so what? they don't have water bottles, do they? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked Parts
you know, as soon i see the subject line linked parts i get shivers and stomach cramps. before you do anything in your score: 1. complain about insufficient and incomplete implemention of the linked parts feature to the powers-that-be (check the list archives if you need clarifications for your ammo) and about the fact that they have virtually never -- as is standard with new features -- corrected the fundamental errors in the first implementation; 2. read the manual pp. 37-5 and 37-7 i believe (F07 manual), i used to have them tacked to my wall... but packed them away with the razor blades several months ago; 3. make very strong coffee, no milk, no sugar, but possibly some slivovice could be helpful; 4. read the manual again; 5. read the manual again; 6. attempt another run at it. Yup it's a pain. Here's what I do (courtesy of jef chipewa!) Use two different measure number regions, region 1 for the parts and region 2 for the score. When you print the parts, set the range of region 1 to be 1 to 999 and the range of region 2 to be 999 to 999. Then when you print the score, switch the ranges manually. kee-riced, did i really say that!?! my last version was something similar (as i recall). define a region show every 5mm (or 10, as you wish) in boxes that looks good in score for all measures (1-999); define a region (or several as needed, i have 1-99 and 100-xxx at different vertical heights) that looks good on parts. i'm just coming out of massive work in another area and so this is really not fresh, but essentially you have to selectively delete / force show in parts / score (page by page in score if i recall...). sounds complicated, but once mastered, this approach works VERY VERY well. i don't think it matter how many regions there are, since you have to select / delete / force show / barf on individual pages. happy happy. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] MakeMusic CEO John Paulson resigns
is the CEO responsible for these problems you have articulated? has he contributed to the improvement or decline of the company or to the product (i assume you are referring to finale) in your view? or is he honestly dedicated to the product but bailing ship because of an unresolvable pestilence in the development and marketing department that will ultimately lead to the downfall of the company? i don't know, your comments sound a bit simple to me, for a situation that is surely fairly complex. Perhaps the myopic vision that has been prevalent in the company will finally be cured? Maybe they will fix bugs, listen to long time users, address problems, add features people actually want? NawI didn't think so either. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] To buy or not to buy
expressions that have to avoid notes do so for layers other than 1. but robert sez they are no longer note-attached. how does this work if they are not note-attached? This, in addition to the knowledge that you can still have an expression stick to the beat originally assigned by holding down the Opt key when you move it, greatly improves the usability of the expressions. if you mean moving the expression is now in absolute values instead of metric placement, it sounds like they have finally implemented something which should have been done long ago (and was in fact in sibelius). but that it is no longer possible to choose between note- and measure-attached is a disaster and would very likely keep me from upgrading. what is finale's reasoning for removing this functionality? i am, optimistic as ever regarding finale developments, assuming they didn't just do it to make some change that could justify another upgrade. there is, i am sure, a very good and justifiable reason for this change, yes? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] tuple over a barline
Leave the spacing until you get all the articulations (etc.) attached because you often can't reach into the material that overrides the barline. there is a much more time-consuming way but that spaces perfectly with no fussing and allows the system split to happen in the middle of the tuplet but keeps the beam involving 0:x tuplets and hidden rests that i wish i had copied for future reference to avoid having to do it all over again... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Notation readability research?
Now, guys who prepare music for a living like Darcy and jef chippewa probably know this stuff like the back of their hands and more. Whether there is actual research to back it up, well, who knows? musicians don't read, you have to draw pictures for the bastards. seriously though (not that that wasn't), you wouldn't believe how often they never read the preparatory text and notation legend in scores, arriving in rehearsals with questions that would have been answered if they had just read the *$#! notes. i was once invited to listen/comment on a piece a colleague was preparing for a concert and tour with his duo. the piece was pretty much ready -- they thought -- and he seemed upset that instead of telling him how great they sounded i was pointing out that they weren't reading the text in the score; well, in other words they weren't playing the piece. even lamer than the excuse of not speaking the language is a percussionist (english mother tongue) not figuring out that mit dem Hand means play the cymbals with the hands... um, like, not with hard mallets, dude. my own work is informed by some studies of typography and graphic design, enough to understand the principles of communication of information. also by many discussions with performers and composers and an understanding of the different needs of performers, composers and fans looking at a score. since i deal with scores that have higher levels of details than what i call (with no disrespect intended) beethoven notation i have had to find ways of making the information as easy to digest as possible. clarity and consistency are some of the most important factors. this is one of the reasons why i developed my own fonts. a simple example, the consistency of line thicknesses, shapes and style in my fonts are far more easy to deal with and process visually than the mixed fonts that plague most digital notation today. i also apply basic principles of graphic design to the layout (over and above traditional notation standards that i feel are still relevant) and have learned a lot from typography. i approach score info in layers. one the one hand, each layer has to be unique in its style and presentation to clearly distinguish it from other layers of information; this allows the performer to scan the information of one layer easily while filtering out other layers. but on the other hand, the styles of the different layers have to be closely enough related so that the whole is unified. anyways, maybe sounds a bit like a strange mixture of new age and formalist-structuralism or something, it's clear in my head and i've never really put it to paper before... but hope it's clear enough. in any case it works. http://newmusicnotation.com/examples/chippewa_without_p01.pdf so there you have it, a small contribution to the possibly non-existent research on this stuff. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Notation readability research?
I forgot to reply to this. I have pretty much given up trying to find a font family that looks like the different point sizes were drawn with the same pen. All fonts I see get thicker when they get bigger. I would love a matched set from 9 points to 36 points that look like they have the same thicknesses of lines (look like being the operative word; I know that having exactly the same line thickness is not really desirable.) I imagine this is part of what you were trying to accomplish with your custom fonts? nope. i aim to make 1 version of everything i might need at a proper size so that everything used at 24pt matches. you're right though, for some symbols another version should be used, much like professional fonts that have real bold and smallcaps instead of fattened versions of the regular font and smaller point size for smallcaps (spare me the humour on this ppoint guys...). there are in fact a couple of things i could think of... i used larger fermati when they are over measures that over notes and barlines. and a slight adjustment (slightly thinner lines on the larger version) would make the design that much more elegant. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Notation readability research?
Christopher Smith wrote: Maybe musicians read musical notation more easily than they read text indications. I noticed later that the marking stacc. was largely ignored on the first reading (sight reading, of course, as prepared parts in an orchestral context would most likely have been looked at before the first rehearsal) whereas actual dots over all the notes was played properly. Richard Smith wrote: The hairpins are more obvious and usually more accurate. yeah this also has to do with the complexity of the visual elements you are looking at. a hairpin has two long lines that are present and quasi parallel (extremely similar) over the entire duration they apply to and even reading them peripherally it is extremely easy to process, while a cresc. has 6 separate characters in 5 different forms and the only thing going for it perceptually is the doubled character c at the ends, so as an object the eye can pick it up as a group fairly easily and not have to process the individual letters individually. but still way more complex as an object than a hairpin. al;though... i think this is an older protocol, but some scores have dotted lines over the entire duration following cresc. if you want to be a real geek about these things, check out bregman's ASA; most of the models are based in audio experiments, but he translates them into aural perception. it's thick but i don't think you need to read the whole thing to get the ideas behind it. in fact you don't even have to read it, you can just look at the pictures. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... erm. ack. even these ideas about hearing and perception (streaming, segregation) can be brought into the notation realm. If I said, Never put playdough in the microwave all they heard was playdough and microwave ha! reminds me of the classic gary larson what we say to dogs (cats) / what they actually hear. http://healingmagichands.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/some-favorite-cartoons/1019 http://healingmagichands.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/some-favorite-cartoons/1020 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Notation readability research?
Did anyone besides me notice that Jef's fingers manage to find the shift-key for German but never for English? What's up with that? shit... busted. verdammte Scheiße. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
