Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
Hi Raglan -- I'm using 2011 -- no problems so far! -- Mike On Apr 20, 2012, at 4:17 AM, rglan wrote: At 8:21 AM +1000 19/4/12, David McKay wrote: Raglan is the name of a village which is en route to Sydney, from Bathurst, where I live. it's also a very famous surfing break in N.Z. :-) Wondering if you have ever transcribed The London Derrière? Transcribed for what? As it happens I have transcribed (roughly) Grainger's version for solo piano. Un peu étrange que you should ask such a question :-/ we used FinWin 2004b for many years, but upgraded to FinWin2011 and enjoy its comparative simplicity You seem to be the only person here currently using 2011, everyone else seems to have jumped from 2010--2012. I wonder why? I guess I'll just have to look back in the archives for further enlightenment re 2011. I'm a little wary of 2012 from what I've read here despite a longing for Unicode fonts. At 6:05 PM -0700 18/4/12, dershem wrote: It is just FULL of bugs and errors. 2010 works, 2012 does not - it takes more effort to do what 2010 did effortlessly. raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
Many thanks to all who chimed in on 2011, beaucoup apprécié :-) raglan At 9:22 AM -0400 20/4/12, Raymond Horton wrote: WinFin2011 I like it - no real problems At 2:31 PM +0100 20/4/12, Steve Parker wrote: 2011 mac fine for me. At 8:32 AM -0500 20/4/12, Robert Patterson wrote: I can only think of one reason not to go from Fin11 to Fin12 At 8:48 AM -0700 20/4/12, Harold Owen wrote: I'm using 2011 and have no major complaints At 12:21 PM -0400 20/4/12, Aaron Sherber wrote: I've stayed with Win2011 At 7:31 PM +0200 20/4/12, Daniel Wolf wrote: I'm very happy with Finale 2011 At 3:25 PM -0700 20/4/12, Jamin Hoffman wrote: I prefer to use 2010 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
I paused at FinMac 2011. I wrote one arrangement on 2012, but thought that the Score Manager wasn't reason enough to upgrade, and then have to re-do my macros. I find FinMac 2011 quite stable. I'm on OSX 10.6. Frankly, Jari's recent plugins are far more value to me than the 2012 update. - Nigel Hanley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
I should probably clarify my position. My belief is that there is never any reason to upgrade unless there is something in the new version you want. One of the other posters stated that they wanted the Unicode features in Fin12 and was already on Fin11. In that case, there is no reason not to upgrade unless you are planning to enter a lot of pre-1900 instrumental music in Finale. On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Nigel Hanley i...@nigelhanley.com wrote: I paused at FinMac 2011. I wrote one arrangement on 2012, but thought that the Score Manager wasn't reason enough to upgrade, and then have to re-do my macros. I find FinMac 2011 quite stable. I'm on OSX 10.6. Frankly, Jari's recent plugins are far more value to me than the 2012 update. - Nigel Hanley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
I agree, Robert. In my case the Score Manager was the only improvement. After a month of playing with 2012 and re-working a few macros, I thought I'd wait for 2013. Unless it's a dog of course :) Nigel Hanley ps I really hope it's not. On 22/04/2012, at 12:05 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: I should probably clarify my position. My belief is that there is never any reason to upgrade unless there is something in the new version you want. One of the other posters stated that they wanted the Unicode features in Fin12 and was already on Fin11. In that case, there is no reason not to upgrade unless you are planning to enter a lot of pre-1900 instrumental music in Finale. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
On 4/19/2012 1:19 AM, SN jef chippewa wrote: Extract Parts would NOT save as [filename+partname+ whatevr] - I had to manually name each part. There is a standard option for extracting parts, and it has been there for many years. It existed as a menu option but never worked. i think i have extracted parts maybe once since the (admittedly faulty) implementation of linked parts (F2007), but just had a quick look at the dialogue in 2010. what is the issue you are having exactly? i just tried this and it seems to work fine. It works fine for you. Many thin gs apparently designed into the program do not work on this computer. Probably all of the bugs I am having issue with are on this computer, but getting that fixed would be more trouble than it is worth. If it consistently does the wrong thing, it's a bug. I could send you files, but instead I will just revert to 2010, which works just fine. well, if there are such serious bugs as you mention they should also be checked and documented, and sent to MM. i would encourage you to send the file to christopher for checking. I have doubts it is the fle - it is almost certainly the program, as installed on this machine. And as I used the default settings here, there is probably some conflict with my other software that is causing it, and I'm not willing to change programs that work to possibly help one that doesn't, especially if I have an alternative that DOES work. The only option I would like that 2010 doesn't have is to hide staves in the piano part, and I am used to doing that with a T-square and x-acto knife. hein?!?! once the system is optimized you can remove any staff by selecting the lower handle at the start of the staff (staff tool) and deleting it (from appearing in the system). despite my own criticisms of the programme i have never come across something that could not be resolved somehow in the file itself. knife and ruler... sheesh, sounds so... 1980s. notation in the dark ages, barbaric =-O As said earlier, I used that back in the 70's and 80's, before computer notation. And now that I am back on 2010, it is not necessary any more. I only did a dozen or so scores in 2012 before I gave up on it, so there is little damage done, and for those clients that still want stuff in 2012 format, that can be done by just opening there and saving in a new folder. It is just FULL of bugs and errors. 2010 works, 2012 does not - it takes more effort to do what 2010 did effortlessly. could you list a few more of these bugs? cheers, jef Hmmm... trying to get away from them. One of the more annoying ones was that every time I opened FinWin2012, it would ask if I wanted to use the .bak extension for Finale, as Photoshop uses it for something else. No matter how many times I said Yes and checked the Don't ask again box, it still came up EVERY TIME. Very annoying. Then the 'save as' problem when extracting parts (which I have to do a lot). The page size glitch. The piano optimization/hiding empty staves problem (Almost all of what I do is big band music. For those who don't do much of this - the piano part is usually a few bars of clear notation to establish a pattern of interpretation, followed by many measures of just chord changes. The end is often more clear notation, and there is occasionally something in the middle. But in a 200-250 measure piece, there might only be 20-30 bars of grand staff needed, and empty bass clef staves waste a lot of paper and cause page turn problems for my piano player). Those are the most egregious. Carl -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
On 4/18/2012 11:32 PM, Jari Williamsson wrote: On 2012-04-19 03:05, dershem wrote: For one thing, I could not upgrade on-line. I simply would NOT function, so even though I bought the upgrade on-line, I had to pay extra for a CD. Windows with anti-virus program active? Windows7 (64 bit). Tried several different browsers and anti-virus settings. None of them worked. cd -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
On 4/19/2012 5:20 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: On Thu Apr 19, at ThursdayApr 19 2:14 AM, dershem wrote: The only option I would like that 2010 doesn't have is to hide staves in the piano part, and I am used to doing that with a T-square and x-acto knife. Carl Hi Carl, I know that the piano group is set by default to NOT allow optimisation, but you can edit the group to allow optimisation normally in the part. This hasn't changed for a very long time. Now, of course, in 2012 it's called hide empty staves instead of optimisation but the principle (and the restriction!) are the same. Please, put down the knife! Christopher I'm an old guy - I put myself through college in the 70's (well, partway) doing notation by hand. Didn't have to go back to that until this version of Finale, but it was pretty easy to re-adjust. Going back to Fin2010b eliminated that need, so no problem. cd -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
At 8:21 AM +1000 19/4/12, David McKay wrote: Raglan is the name of a village which is en route to Sydney, from Bathurst, where I live. it's also a very famous surfing break in N.Z. :-) Wondering if you have ever transcribed The London Derrière? Transcribed for what? As it happens I have transcribed (roughly) Grainger's version for solo piano. Un peu étrange que you should ask such a question :-/ we used FinWin 2004b for many years, but upgraded to FinWin2011 and enjoy its comparative simplicity You seem to be the only person here currently using 2011, everyone else seems to have jumped from 2010--2012. I wonder why? I guess I'll just have to look back in the archives for further enlightenment re 2011. I'm a little wary of 2012 from what I've read here despite a longing for Unicode fonts. At 6:05 PM -0700 18/4/12, dershem wrote: It is just FULL of bugs and errors. 2010 works, 2012 does not - it takes more effort to do what 2010 did effortlessly. raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
Hi David! I am amazed anyone actually lives at RAGLAN!!..I still use 2011..first year I haven't upgraded since 2005. Rod. Katoomba. -Original Message- From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of rglan Sent: Friday, 20 April 2012 6:17 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010 At 8:21 AM +1000 19/4/12, David McKay wrote: Raglan is the name of a village which is en route to Sydney, from Bathurst, where I live. it's also a very famous surfing break in N.Z. :-) Wondering if you have ever transcribed The London Derrière? Transcribed for what? As it happens I have transcribed (roughly) Grainger's version for solo piano. Un peu étrange que you should ask such a question :-/ we used FinWin 2004b for many years, but upgraded to FinWin2011 and enjoy its comparative simplicity You seem to be the only person here currently using 2011, everyone else seems to have jumped from 2010--2012. I wonder why? I guess I'll just have to look back in the archives for further enlightenment re 2011. I'm a little wary of 2012 from what I've read here despite a longing for Unicode fonts. At 6:05 PM -0700 18/4/12, dershem wrote: It is just FULL of bugs and errors. 2010 works, 2012 does not - it takes more effort to do what 2010 did effortlessly. raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4947 - Release Date: 04/19/12 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
At 6:44 PM +1000 20/4/12, Rod McDonald wrote: I am amazed anyone actually lives at RAGLAN!!.. But are you amazed that RAGLAN actually lives? ;-) I still use 2011..first year I haven't upgraded since 2005 That's encouraging, merci ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 4:17 AM, rglan rg...@free.fr wrote: You seem to be the only person here currently using 2011, everyone else seems to have jumped from 2010--2012. I wonder why? I guess I'll just ... o/ (Hand raised.) WinFin2011 I like it - no real problems, Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com At 6:05 PM -0700 18/4/12, dershem wrote: It is just FULL of bugs and errors. 2010 works, 2012 does not - it takes more effort to do what 2010 did effortlessly. raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
I can only think of one reason not to go from Fin11 to Fin12, esp. if you can use the Unicode. The Score Manager changes call for a little adjustment in how you do things, but the significant regression matters only if you need to enter a lot of instrumental music from before 1900 into Finale. In that case, and that case only, I would stick with Fin11. The upgrading troubles described by a few on this list are in no way typical and doubtless had something to do with their specific setup. On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Raymond Horton horton.raym...@gmail.comwrote: On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 4:17 AM, rglan rg...@free.fr wrote: You seem to be the only person here currently using 2011, everyone else seems to have jumped from 2010--2012. I wonder why? I guess I'll just ... o/ (Hand raised.) WinFin2011 I like it - no real problems, Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com At 6:05 PM -0700 18/4/12, dershem wrote: It is just FULL of bugs and errors. 2010 works, 2012 does not - it takes more effort to do what 2010 did effortlessly. raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
2011 mac fine for me. Steve P. On 19 Apr 2012, at 13:20, Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote: On Thu Apr 19, at ThursdayApr 19 2:14 AM, dershem wrote: The only option I would like that 2010 doesn't have is to hide staves in the piano part, and I am used to doing that with a T-square and x-acto knife. Carl Hi Carl, I know that the piano group is set by default to NOT allow optimisation, but you can edit the group to allow optimisation normally in the part. This hasn't changed for a very long time. Now, of course, in 2012 it's called hide empty staves instead of optimisation but the principle (and the restriction!) are the same. Please, put down the knife! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
Hello everyone, It's been a while since I posted here. I'm using 2011 and have no major complaints. I'm on Mac using System 10.5.8. I'll consider getting Finale 2012B when it's available and when I can upgrade my system. I really like the convenience of using XML with friends who have Sibelius or older Finale versions. People are still asking me for my tutorials for Finale 2010. I guess it time to upgrade them too. Hal Owen On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 4:17 AM, rglan rg...@free.fr wrote: You seem to be the only person here currently using 2011, everyone else seems to have jumped from 2010--2012. I wonder why? I guess I'll just ... o/ (Hand raised.) WinFin2011 I like it - no real problems, Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com At 6:05 PM -0700 18/4/12, dershem wrote: It is just FULL of bugs and errors. 2010 works, 2012 does not - it takes more effort to do what 2010 did effortlessly. raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Harold Owen 1375 Olive Street #402, Eugene, OR 97401 mailto:hjo...@uoregon.edu Visit my web site at: http://uoregon.edu/~hjowen/ FAX: (509) 461-3608 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
Apple also has released 10.6 for free in the hopes that people will use that and then upgrade to Lion. You might want to check it out. Going from 10.5 to 10.6 resulted in speed increases for my macs Sent from my iSomething -- On Apr 20, 2012, at 8:51 AM, Harold Owen hjo...@uoregon.edu wrote: Hello everyone, It's been a while since I posted here. I'm using 2011 and have no major complaints. I'm on Mac using System 10.5.8. I'll consider getting Finale 2012B when it's available and when I can upgrade my system. I really like the convenience of using XML with friends who have Sibelius or older Finale versions. People are still asking me for my tutorials for Finale 2010. I guess it time to upgrade them too. Hal Owen On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 4:17 AM, rglan rg...@free.fr wrote: You seem to be the only person here currently using 2011, everyone else seems to have jumped from 2010--2012. I wonder why? I guess I'll just ... o/ (Hand raised.) WinFin2011 I like it - no real problems, Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com At 6:05 PM -0700 18/4/12, dershem wrote: It is just FULL of bugs and errors. 2010 works, 2012 does not - it takes more effort to do what 2010 did effortlessly. raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Harold Owen 1375 Olive Street #402, Eugene, OR 97401 mailto:hjo...@uoregon.edu Visit my web site at: http://uoregon.edu/~hjowen/ FAX: (509) 461-3608 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 4:17 AM, rglanrg...@free.fr wrote: You seem to be the only person here currently using 2011, everyone else seems to have jumped from 2010--2012. I wonder why? I guess I'll just ... I've stayed with Win2011 because I really don't like the current implementation of the Score Manager. It makes nothing easier for me, and a few things harder. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
I'm very happy with Finale 2011 (Win) but am weighing whether Unicode is important enough to switch to 2012. (On the other hand, because I occasionally do Sibelius work, I did the upgrade from 6 to 7 for a specific project, but that's been regrettable, as the new ribbon design is an eye killer, so I'll insist that any Sib work in the future be sent in Sib 6 format.) Daniel Wolf Frankfurt ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
On 4/18/2012 6:39 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Carl, I have been using 2012 for months without problems (except for an issue with Lion compatibility for the paste multiple keyboard shortcut). I no longer extract separate parts, so that may explain my ignorance of those problems. Piano parts arrive by default with Hide Normally deselected, and you have to change that in group attributes in order to be able to hide a staff in the part. The app downloaded online without trouble for me. It's not that I doubt that there may be problems, but I want to weigh in in order that jef get another point of view. Chuck Understood. But the piano parts would not hide no matter what I did. All of the stupid things 2012 was doing were happening no matter what I did. I would rather use a program slightly less powerful that works, instead of one potentially more powerful that fights me every step of the way. cd On Apr 18, 2012, at 6:05 PM, dershem wrote: On 4/18/2012 12:03 AM, SN jef chippewa wrote: carl, i am about to upgrade a few things, including finale, and wonder if you could tell me what you found so disastrous moving from 2010 to 2012 (which is what i would be doing soon). For one thing, I could not upgrade on-line. I simply would NOT function, so even though I bought the upgrade on-line, I had to pay extra for a CD. For another, many functions ceased to function: Hide staff for part of the piano staff didn't work. Extract Parts would NOT save as [filename+partname+ whatevr] - I had to manually name each part. Page format was messed up - the first 3 pages of every part and score had to be enlarged 10 112% to be seen/print normally, and pages after that needed to be reduced to 70% to then match the earlier pages. Those are just the three that I thought of first. It is just FULL of bugs and errors. 2010 works, 2012 does not - it takes more effort to do what 2010 did effortlessly. cd -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97202 land line: (503) 954-2107 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraels.com www.chuckisraelsjazz.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 7067 (20120418) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
On 4/18/2012 7:22 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: On Wed Apr 18, at WednesdayApr 18 9:05 PM, dershem wrote: On 4/18/2012 12:03 AM, SN jef chippewa wrote: carl, i am about to upgrade a few things, including finale, and wonder if you could tell me what you found so disastrous moving from 2010 to 2012 (which is what i would be doing soon). For one thing, I could not upgrade on-line. I simply would NOT function, so even though I bought the upgrade on-line, I had to pay extra for a CD. Carl, did you give it enough time? The initial download is just the installer. Once you double-click it, the ACTUAL download starts and can take quite a while, especially if you don't have a super-fast connection or the MakeMusic server was overloaded. It took me well over an hour. I tried at least a dozen times. It would freeze solid every time. For another, many functions ceased to function: Hide staff for part of the piano staff didn't work. Had you enabled hide normally in the group attributes IN THE PIANO PART (just in the score might not do it)? Yup. Extract Parts would NOT save as [filename+partname+ whatevr] - I had to manually name each part. I haven't seen this, as I don't extract parts that often. Do you have slashes in the staff/part name? That might kill a file creation on Mac (I see it all the time when creating PDFs), and it has been this way for a while. If you are on Windows, I don't know. There is a standard option for extracting parts, and it has been there for many years. It existed as a menu option but never worked. Page format was messed up - the first 3 pages of every part and score had to be enlarged 10 112% to be seen/print normally, and pages after that needed to be reduced to 70% to then match the earlier pages. I have my suspicions about that. There are several explanations, involving the Zoom tool and the default page/system sizes, which I have had to suss out before. Short answer, it's not a bug, it's just an unwanted or misunderstood behaviour. If you could send me a file privately, I'll check it out, and you won't be bothered with it again. If it consistently does the wrong thing, it's a bug. I could send you files, but instead I will just revert to 2010, which works just fine. The only option I would like that 2010 doesn't have is to hide staves in the piano part, and I am used to doing that with a T-square and x-acto knife. Carl Those are just the three that I thought of first. It is just FULL of bugs and errors. 2010 works, 2012 does not - it takes more effort to do what 2010 did effortlessly. cd -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
On 2012-04-19 03:05, dershem wrote: For one thing, I could not upgrade on-line. I simply would NOT function, so even though I bought the upgrade on-line, I had to pay extra for a CD. Windows with anti-virus program active? Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
In 2012 is it now possible to add new instruments (like horn in D or horn in E) to the instrument list so that you can use them in future projects? Cheers, Lawrence -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
Extract Parts would NOT save as [filename+partname+ whatevr] - I had to manually name each part. There is a standard option for extracting parts, and it has been there for many years. It existed as a menu option but never worked. i think i have extracted parts maybe once since the (admittedly faulty) implementation of linked parts (F2007), but just had a quick look at the dialogue in 2010. what is the issue you are having exactly? i just tried this and it seems to work fine. If it consistently does the wrong thing, it's a bug. I could send you files, but instead I will just revert to 2010, which works just fine. well, if there are such serious bugs as you mention they should also be checked and documented, and sent to MM. i would encourage you to send the file to christopher for checking. The only option I would like that 2010 doesn't have is to hide staves in the piano part, and I am used to doing that with a T-square and x-acto knife. hein?!?! once the system is optimized you can remove any staff by selecting the lower handle at the start of the staff (staff tool) and deleting it (from appearing in the system). despite my own criticisms of the programme i have never come across something that could not be resolved somehow in the file itself. knife and ruler... sheesh, sounds so... 1980s. notation in the dark ages, barbaric =-O It is just FULL of bugs and errors. 2010 works, 2012 does not - it takes more effort to do what 2010 did effortlessly. could you list a few more of these bugs? cheers, jef ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
On Thu Apr 19, at ThursdayApr 19 2:14 AM, dershem wrote: The only option I would like that 2010 doesn't have is to hide staves in the piano part, and I am used to doing that with a T-square and x-acto knife. Carl Hi Carl, I know that the piano group is set by default to NOT allow optimisation, but you can edit the group to allow optimisation normally in the part. This hasn't changed for a very long time. Now, of course, in 2012 it's called hide empty staves instead of optimisation but the principle (and the restriction!) are the same. Please, put down the knife! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] 2012 vs 2010
carl, i am about to upgrade a few things, including finale, and wonder if you could tell me what you found so disastrous moving from 2010 to 2012 (which is what i would be doing soon). At 17:59 -0700 4/16/12, dershem wrote: I still get some good stuff from the list, even though I went back to Finale 2010b after 2012 being such a disaster. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
Hi, Jef - I made the same upgrade from 2010 to 2012 without any problems. I was on WinXP at the time, then migrated to a new box with Win7. The updater caused no problems. I mostly do horn charts transcriptions - no lyrics. Giz |-Original Message- |From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of |SN jef chippewa |Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:04 AM |To: finale@shsu.edu |Subject: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010 | | |carl, i am about to upgrade a few things, including finale, and wonder if you could |tell me what you found so disastrous moving from |2010 to 2012 (which is what i would be doing soon). | |At 17:59 -0700 4/16/12, dershem wrote: |I still get some good stuff from the list, even though I went back to |Finale 2010b after 2012 being such a disaster. ___ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
On 2012-04-18 09:03, SN jef chippewa wrote: carl, i am about to upgrade a few things, including finale, and wonder if you could tell me what you found so disastrous moving from 2010 to 2012 (which is what i would be doing soon). If you're unsure, I would suggest to wait until 2012B. There might be additions/changes in that version that we don't know of yet. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
At 4:20 PM +0200 18/4/12, Jari Williamsson wrote: I would suggest to wait until 2012B How does 2011 figure in all this? raglan ps. sorry if I'm throwing a spanner in the works ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
On 4/18/2012 10:39 AM, rglan wrote: At 4:20 PM +0200 18/4/12, Jari Williamsson wrote: I would suggest to wait until 2012B How does 2011 figure in all this? It comes in between 2010 and 2012. Are you asking whether it's better than 2010 and/or worse/better than 2012? -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
At 11:30 AM -0400 18/4/12, David H. Bailey wrote: It comes in between 2010 and 2012. Lol :-D I know that andouille ;-) Are you asking whether it's better than 2010 and/or worse/better than 2012? Oui, yes, and how does it/they compare to other versions too in terms of stability and lack of annoying bugs? raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
I can't speak to the specifics of Fin11, having barely used it. But if you are already on Fin10, the main differences you will notice are 1. Score Manager. This could possibly be a step forward, but if you need to have transpositions separate from instruments or if you need to upgrade pre-Fin12 files that contain instrument doublings (including percussion) on the same staff, you will find the current implementation of Score Manager to be huge pain in the patootie. 2. Staff Groups are now associated with measure ranges instead of systems. I like this a lot, but the upgrade process makes a huge mess of them, so working with upgraded files can be a pain. 3. All systems are optimized, and you cannot exclude staves with music in them without going through an explicit process. Again, this is a good thing, but it does create complexity in dealing with upgraded files. 4. You have to be extremely careful about how you drag staves up and down on a system. I have finally adjusted to the new way, I think, but I still screw up every now and then, and the screw ups are very costly. Rule of thumb: always click white space to clear any selection (possible not visible) before attempting to grab a handle. If you fail to grab the handle, click white space before the next attempt. 5. I don't know if this matters to you, but a huge new benefit is support for Unicode fonts. Not only does this mean straightforward support for non-Western characters, but it also includes a huge variety of symbols that can now be incorporated directly as articulation marks, etc. This feature was the decisive feature that got me to move my work from Fin08 to Fin12 and live with the minor regressions. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 10:40 AM, rglan rg...@free.fr wrote: At 11:30 AM -0400 18/4/12, David H. Bailey wrote: It comes in between 2010 and 2012. Lol :-D I know that andouille ;-) Are you asking whether it's better than 2010 and/or worse/better than 2012? Oui, yes, and how does it/they compare to other versions too in terms of stability and lack of annoying bugs? raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
At 11:13 AM -0500 18/4/12, Robert Patterson wrote: the main differences you will notice are Merci for the très compréhensif answer. Are all these things you mention new to 2012 or did they appear earlier? I am not familiar with the Score Manager, is there anything good about it? the current implementation of Score Manager to be huge pain in the patootie You mean derrière (arse) ? Staff Groups are now associated with measure ranges instead of systems snip working with upgraded files can be a pain. snip systems are optimized... complexity in dealing with upgraded files I have a lot of old files, many of them back going back to Finale 1988 that I would like to access again, and some of those, the ones I most want to access again, are quite complex music. I don't know if this matters to you, but a huge new benefit is support for Unicode fonts. Yes, that would be very welcome for me. And that appeared with 2012 or earlier? raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
Ha ha! I just learned that word andouille! I saw an episode of The Family Guy where two of the characters are competing for the attentions of the same lady (one is a dog, but no matter), so they take her to a fancy French restaurant called l'espèce d'andouille. That sounded a little off to me, then I found out that it was an expression of Homer Simpson's (in the French dub). Apparently it's literally a kind of sausage (but probably all French people know that) and the makers of Family Guy were paying a little tribute to The Simpsons. More to the point, 2012 has Unicode support (yay!) and the Score Manager, which is mostly an excellent new feature (changing transpositions of the same instrument are a bit of a kludge, but changing instruments is much easier) and stability is about the same, which is to say, quite good. I haven't been able to recreate the old bug where custom arrowheads in Smart Shapes breaks EPS creation, so maybe that bug is quashed. Otherwise, most of the old existing bugs are still there. I hear they are trying to address bug fixes in an additional release. Christopher - Original Message - From: rglan rg...@free.fr Date: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 11:40 am Subject: Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010 To: finale@shsu.edu At 11:30 AM -0400 18/4/12, David H. Bailey wrote: It comes in between 2010 and 2012. Lol :-D I know that andouille ;-) Are you asking whether it's better than 2010 and/or worse/better than 2012? Oui, yes, and how does it/they compare to other versions too in terms of stability and lack of annoying bugs? raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
I was listing differences from 2010 to 2012. Many people like score manager because it is a modeless window and allows quicker access to the instrument list. I will get used to it I am sure. You correctly translated patootie. Upgrading files from 1988 will be a challenge. To get useuful results you will first need to upgrade to the last pre 3.0 version of finale. This may require you to have an antique Macinstosh. It may be possible to do it with an emulator. There is one that can run old finale versions but I never tried to upgrade files with it. if you able to get your file upgraded to that last pre 3.0 version then I would import into fin 2002 before jumping to 2012. 2002 did a much better job than later versions of upgrading old files. No matter what you do you will have to reedit the files. In many cases I decided it was easier to reenter from scratch. Unicode support is new in 2012. On Wednesday, April 18, 2012, rglan rg...@free.fr wrote: At 11:13 AM -0500 18/4/12, Robert Patterson wrote: the main differences you will notice are Merci for the très compréhensif answer. Are all these things you mention new to 2012 or did they appear earlier? I am not familiar with the Score Manager, is there anything good about it? the current implementation of Score Manager to be huge pain in the patootie You mean derrière (arse) ? Staff Groups are now associated with measure ranges instead of systems snip working with upgraded files can be a pain. snip systems are optimized... complexity in dealing with upgraded files I have a lot of old files, many of them back going back to Finale 1988 that I would like to access again, and some of those, the ones I most want to access again, are quite complex music. I don't know if this matters to you, but a huge new benefit is support for Unicode fonts. Yes, that would be very welcome for me. And that appeared with 2012 or earlier? raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
yeah all features robert mentioned are of interest to me and seem to make the upgrade worth doing, was curious why carl reverted to 2010, what problems he (or anyone else) found when upgrading from 2010 (or even 2011, which i don't have) to 2012. i plan to completely rebuild my template and prefs from scratch and for the moment will be working only on one new and big score, so upgrading files isn't an issue for me (right now). still no linked parts fix... pf ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
At 12:26 PM -0400 18/4/12, christopher.sm...@videotron.ca écrit: a kind of sausage Oui, porc flesh mixed with chopped tripe and herbs and put inside the intestine :-) salivate In the 12th c. this word also denoted the male sexe ;-) And I hope David H. Bailey didn't take offense; unlike most French people I tend to use this word very loosely, there was no malice intended. It's rarely used in France these days, has gone out of fashion, but I love it. Andouillette is still commonly used being a much smaller version of an andouille i.e. small sausage ;-) Thank you for the further insight into the modern Finale. raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
I am sure Carl can speak for himself, but my recollection was that it was the transposition problem. If you are entering big 19th scores in Finale, 2012 is a non-starter because of this problem, esp. if an earlier version is available. The transposition problem is that Fin2012 forces you to change instruments just to change transposition. While this may make sense for saxophones or oboe/e.h., it makes absolutely no sense for trumpets, french horns, or wagner tubas in a 19th century setting. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 11:53 AM, SN jef chippewa shirl...@newmusicnotation.com wrote: yeah all features robert mentioned are of interest to me and seem to make the upgrade worth doing, was curious why carl reverted to 2010, what problems he (or anyone else) found when upgrading from 2010 (or even 2011, which i don't have) to 2012. i plan to completely rebuild my template and prefs from scratch and for the moment will be working only on one new and big score, so upgrading files isn't an issue for me (right now). still no linked parts fix... pf ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
At 12:35 PM -0500 18/4/12, Robert Patterson wrote:
Upgrading files from 1988 will be a challenge.
:-( Merci beaucoup for all the pointers.
This may require you to have an antique Macinstosh
Plenty of those lying around :-) I have a Macinstash ;-)
2002 did a much better job than later versions of upgrading old files
That's very good to know. I think I have one of those lying around too ;-)
In many cases I decided it was easier to reenter from scratch
Merde X;{
raglan
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Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
BTW: Fin2012 does have some linked parts improvements with respect to how it works with plugins. For expressions, page titles, and (I believe) smart shapes, if you edit them in part view it unlinks them from the score. This makes using existing plugins more palatable as well as opening up opportunities for automation that I have already begun to incorporate in my v4.0 version of plugins. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 1:11 PM, rglan rg...@free.fr wrote: At 12:26 PM -0400 18/4/12, christopher.sm...@videotron.ca écrit: a kind of sausage Oui, porc flesh mixed with chopped tripe and herbs and put inside the intestine :-) salivate In the 12th c. this word also denoted the male sexe ;-) And I hope David H. Bailey didn't take offense; unlike most French people I tend to use this word very loosely, there was no malice intended. It's rarely used in France these days, has gone out of fashion, but I love it. Andouillette is still commonly used being a much smaller version of an andouille i.e. small sausage ;-) Thank you for the further insight into the modern Finale. raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
On 4/18/2012 2:11 PM, rglan wrote: At 12:26 PM -0400 18/4/12,christopher.sm...@videotron.ca écrit: a kind of sausage Oui, porc flesh mixed with chopped tripe and herbs and put inside the intestine :-)salivate In the 12th c. this word also denoted the male sexe ;-) And I hope David H. Bailey didn't take offense; unlike most French people I tend to use this word very loosely, there was no malice intended. It's rarely used in France these days, has gone out of fashion, but I love it. Andouillette is still commonly used being a much smaller version of an andouille i.e. small sausage ;-) Thank you for the further insight into the modern Finale. Nope, I didn't take offense. Even though I didn't know exactly what it was I knew it was something derogatory but used in jest. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
French equivalent of Haggis, is it then? Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. On Apr 18, 2012, at 2:34 PM, David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com wrote: On 4/18/2012 2:11 PM, rglan wrote: At 12:26 PM -0400 18/4/12,christopher.sm...@videotron.ca écrit: a kind of sausage Oui, porc flesh mixed with chopped tripe and herbs and put inside the intestine :-)salivate In the 12th c. this word also denoted the male sexe ;-) And I hope David H. Bailey didn't take offense; unlike most French people I tend to use this word very loosely, there was no malice intended. It's rarely used in France these days, has gone out of fashion, but I love it. Andouillette is still commonly used being a much smaller version of an andouille i.e. small sausage ;-) Thank you for the further insight into the modern Finale. Nope, I didn't take offense. Even though I didn't know exactly what it was I knew it was something derogatory but used in jest. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
At 6:36 PM + 18/4/12, Williams, Jim wrote: French equivalent of Haggis, is it then? A slightly paler version, I think Haggis is probably closer to the Greek Kokoretsi raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
At 2:24 PM -0400 18/4/12, David H. Bailey wrote: Nope, I didn't take offense. :-) raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
It's rarely used in France these days, has gone out of fashion, not in Brittany ! http://www.andouille-guemene.com/cadre.htm (the most famous in the world) I like this Andouille mailing list kenavo ! claude Le 18/04/2012 20:11, rglan a écrit : At 12:26 PM -0400 18/4/12,christopher.sm...@videotron.ca écrit: a kind of sausage Oui, porc flesh mixed with chopped tripe and herbs and put inside the intestine :-)salivate In the 12th c. this word also denoted the male sexe ;-) And I hope David H. Bailey didn't take offense; unlike most French people I tend to use this word very loosely, there was no malice intended. It's rarely used in France these days, has gone out of fashion, but I love it. Andouillette is still commonly used being a much smaller version of an andouille i.e. small sausage ;-) Thank you for the further insight into the modern Finale. raglan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
18/04/2012 20:11, raglan a écrit : It's rarely used in France these days, has gone out of fashion, At 8:51 PM +0200 18/4/12, Claude Guéganno wrote: not in Brittany ! Bretagne n'est pas la France ;-) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
Goood! +1 bien vu! I think , you had the last word ! Le 18/04/2012 21:18, rglan a écrit : 18/04/2012 20:11, raglan a écrit : It's rarely used in France these days, has gone out of fashion, At 8:51 PM +0200 18/4/12, Claude Guéganno wrote: not in Brittany ! Bretagne n'est pas la France ;-) ___ Andouille mailing list andoui...@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/andouille ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
Bonjour Raglan. Raglan is the name of a village which is en route to Sydney, from Bathurst, where I live. Wondering if you have ever transcribed The London Derrière? And, slightly on topic, we used FinWin 2004b for many years, but upgraded to FinWin2011 and enjoy its comparative simplicity, though I don't use it lot and that, combined with being in my 60th year, means i have to keep relearning the changes. David McKay ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
On Wed Apr 18, at WednesdayApr 18 2:19 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: I am sure Carl can speak for himself, but my recollection was that it was the transposition problem. If you are entering big 19th scores in Finale, 2012 is a non-starter because of this problem, esp. if an earlier version is available. The transposition problem is that Fin2012 forces you to change instruments just to change transposition. While this may make sense for saxophones or oboe/e.h., it makes absolutely no sense for trumpets, french horns, or wagner tubas in a 19th century setting. Robert, It's not really that big a kludge. Here is the procedure from MakeMusic, to change the transposition but keep the same playback. To change the transposition of a staff you will need to change the instrument, then adjust the playback sounds and transposition. To do so: 1. Use the Selection Tool 2. Highlight the measure you would like the transposition to occur in 3. Go to Utilities Change Instrument and select a different instrument (each new transposition on the same line will need a different instrument selected. Any single line instrument will work because we will change the playback sound) 4. Go to Window ScoreManager and click on the Instrument List tab 5. Just to the left of the instrument name you will see an arrow pointing at the name. Click on that arrow to expand that instrument information. Select the instrument that you changed the line to at the bottom of the expanded section 6. With this instrumented selected, you can change the transposition with the pull-down menu at the bottom right of the ScoreManager. If it is not one of the common transpositions in the menu, you can select Other and create your own. 7. Still in the ScoreManager, change the playback sound of the new instrument by clicking on the assigned sound and selecting Horn in F from the pull-down menu. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
The issue is changing to an instrument that isn't already preloaded. For example, Horn in D, Horn in E, etc. On Apr 18, 2012, at 4:36 PM, Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote: On Wed Apr 18, at WednesdayApr 18 2:19 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: I am sure Carl can speak for himself, but my recollection was that it was the transposition problem. If you are entering big 19th scores in Finale, 2012 is a non-starter because of this problem, esp. if an earlier version is available. The transposition problem is that Fin2012 forces you to change instruments just to change transposition. While this may make sense for saxophones or oboe/e.h., it makes absolutely no sense for trumpets, french horns, or wagner tubas in a 19th century setting. Robert, It's not really that big a kludge. Here is the procedure from MakeMusic, to change the transposition but keep the same playback. To change the transposition of a staff you will need to change the instrument, then adjust the playback sounds and transposition. To do so: 1. Use the Selection Tool 2. Highlight the measure you would like the transposition to occur in 3. Go to Utilities Change Instrument and select a different instrument (each new transposition on the same line will need a different instrument selected. Any single line instrument will work because we will change the playback sound) 4. Go to Window ScoreManager and click on the Instrument List tab 5. Just to the left of the instrument name you will see an arrow pointing at the name. Click on that arrow to expand that instrument information. Select the instrument that you changed the line to at the bottom of the expanded section 6. With this instrumented selected, you can change the transposition with the pull-down menu at the bottom right of the ScoreManager. If it is not one of the common transpositions in the menu, you can select Other and create your own. 7. Still in the ScoreManager, change the playback sound of the new instrument by clicking on the assigned sound and selecting Horn in F from the pull-down menu. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
On 4/18/2012 12:03 AM, SN jef chippewa wrote: carl, i am about to upgrade a few things, including finale, and wonder if you could tell me what you found so disastrous moving from 2010 to 2012 (which is what i would be doing soon). For one thing, I could not upgrade on-line. I simply would NOT function, so even though I bought the upgrade on-line, I had to pay extra for a CD. For another, many functions ceased to function: Hide staff for part of the piano staff didn't work. Extract Parts would NOT save as [filename+partname+ whatevr] - I had to manually name each part. Page format was messed up - the first 3 pages of every part and score had to be enlarged 10 112% to be seen/print normally, and pages after that needed to be reduced to 70% to then match the earlier pages. Those are just the three that I thought of first. It is just FULL of bugs and errors. 2010 works, 2012 does not - it takes more effort to do what 2010 did effortlessly. cd -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
Yes, the procedure I outlined is to do just that. It isn't preloaded, but it isn't all that difficult. Make this change in your default document and you shouldn't have to do it again. Actually, I haven't checked to see if it saves to my default doc. But I'm hoping it will work! Christopher On Wed Apr 18, at WednesdayApr 18 7:53 PM, Ryan Beard wrote: The issue is changing to an instrument that isn't already preloaded. For example, Horn in D, Horn in E, etc. On Apr 18, 2012, at 4:36 PM, Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote: On Wed Apr 18, at WednesdayApr 18 2:19 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: I am sure Carl can speak for himself, but my recollection was that it was the transposition problem. If you are entering big 19th scores in Finale, 2012 is a non-starter because of this problem, esp. if an earlier version is available. The transposition problem is that Fin2012 forces you to change instruments just to change transposition. While this may make sense for saxophones or oboe/e.h., it makes absolutely no sense for trumpets, french horns, or wagner tubas in a 19th century setting. Robert, It's not really that big a kludge. Here is the procedure from MakeMusic, to change the transposition but keep the same playback. To change the transposition of a staff you will need to change the instrument, then adjust the playback sounds and transposition. To do so: 1. Use the Selection Tool 2. Highlight the measure you would like the transposition to occur in 3. Go to Utilities Change Instrument and select a different instrument (each new transposition on the same line will need a different instrument selected. Any single line instrument will work because we will change the playback sound) 4. Go to Window ScoreManager and click on the Instrument List tab 5. Just to the left of the instrument name you will see an arrow pointing at the name. Click on that arrow to expand that instrument information. Select the instrument that you changed the line to at the bottom of the expanded section 6. With this instrumented selected, you can change the transposition with the pull-down menu at the bottom right of the ScoreManager. If it is not one of the common transpositions in the menu, you can select Other and create your own. 7. Still in the ScoreManager, change the playback sound of the new instrument by clicking on the assigned sound and selecting Horn in F from the pull-down menu. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
Yes, but it gets complicated when you have a piece with horn in D and horn in E and horn in F, and their bass clef counterparts, like so many 19th century pieces. If MakeMusic can preload the Vuvuzela in the instrument list, they should certainly include standard horn and trumpet transpositions. On Apr 18, 2012, at 6:15 PM, Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote: Yes, the procedure I outlined is to do just that. It isn't preloaded, but it isn't all that difficult. Make this change in your default document and you shouldn't have to do it again. Actually, I haven't checked to see if it saves to my default doc. But I'm hoping it will work! Christopher On Wed Apr 18, at WednesdayApr 18 7:53 PM, Ryan Beard wrote: The issue is changing to an instrument that isn't already preloaded. For example, Horn in D, Horn in E, etc. On Apr 18, 2012, at 4:36 PM, Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote: On Wed Apr 18, at WednesdayApr 18 2:19 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: I am sure Carl can speak for himself, but my recollection was that it was the transposition problem. If you are entering big 19th scores in Finale, 2012 is a non-starter because of this problem, esp. if an earlier version is available. The transposition problem is that Fin2012 forces you to change instruments just to change transposition. While this may make sense for saxophones or oboe/e.h., it makes absolutely no sense for trumpets, french horns, or wagner tubas in a 19th century setting. Robert, It's not really that big a kludge. Here is the procedure from MakeMusic, to change the transposition but keep the same playback. To change the transposition of a staff you will need to change the instrument, then adjust the playback sounds and transposition. To do so: 1. Use the Selection Tool 2. Highlight the measure you would like the transposition to occur in 3. Go to Utilities Change Instrument and select a different instrument (each new transposition on the same line will need a different instrument selected. Any single line instrument will work because we will change the playback sound) 4. Go to Window ScoreManager and click on the Instrument List tab 5. Just to the left of the instrument name you will see an arrow pointing at the name. Click on that arrow to expand that instrument information. Select the instrument that you changed the line to at the bottom of the expanded section 6. With this instrumented selected, you can change the transposition with the pull-down menu at the bottom right of the ScoreManager. If it is not one of the common transpositions in the menu, you can select Other and create your own. 7. Still in the ScoreManager, change the playback sound of the new instrument by clicking on the assigned sound and selecting Horn in F from the pull-down menu. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
Carl, I have been using 2012 for months without problems (except for an issue with Lion compatibility for the paste multiple keyboard shortcut). I no longer extract separate parts, so that may explain my ignorance of those problems. Piano parts arrive by default with Hide Normally deselected, and you have to change that in group attributes in order to be able to hide a staff in the part. The app downloaded online without trouble for me. It's not that I doubt that there may be problems, but I want to weigh in in order that jef get another point of view. Chuck On Apr 18, 2012, at 6:05 PM, dershem wrote: On 4/18/2012 12:03 AM, SN jef chippewa wrote: carl, i am about to upgrade a few things, including finale, and wonder if you could tell me what you found so disastrous moving from 2010 to 2012 (which is what i would be doing soon). For one thing, I could not upgrade on-line. I simply would NOT function, so even though I bought the upgrade on-line, I had to pay extra for a CD. For another, many functions ceased to function: Hide staff for part of the piano staff didn't work. Extract Parts would NOT save as [filename+partname+ whatevr] - I had to manually name each part. Page format was messed up - the first 3 pages of every part and score had to be enlarged 10 112% to be seen/print normally, and pages after that needed to be reduced to 70% to then match the earlier pages. Those are just the three that I thought of first. It is just FULL of bugs and errors. 2010 works, 2012 does not - it takes more effort to do what 2010 did effortlessly. cd -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 8831 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97202 land line: (503) 954-2107 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraels.com www.chuckisraelsjazz.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
I agree that the instruments should be there in the default file, but my point was that it is doable and not too hard. It isn't a dealbreaker for upgrading to 2012. Once you do it, it is very easy to select it the second time the same instrument appears. It is no harder to create a horn in D than it is to create a horn in E. Yes, it's a kludge for now. I am confident that the instruments will be there in a future version. Christopher On Wed Apr 18, at WednesdayApr 18 9:48 PM, Ryan Beard wrote: Yes, but it gets complicated when you have a piece with horn in D and horn in E and horn in F, and their bass clef counterparts, like so many 19th century pieces. If MakeMusic can preload the Vuvuzela in the instrument list, they should certainly include standard horn and trumpet transpositions. On Apr 18, 2012, at 6:15 PM, Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote: Yes, the procedure I outlined is to do just that. It isn't preloaded, but it isn't all that difficult. Make this change in your default document and you shouldn't have to do it again. Actually, I haven't checked to see if it saves to my default doc. But I'm hoping it will work! Christopher On Wed Apr 18, at WednesdayApr 18 7:53 PM, Ryan Beard wrote: The issue is changing to an instrument that isn't already preloaded. For example, Horn in D, Horn in E, etc. On Apr 18, 2012, at 4:36 PM, Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote: On Wed Apr 18, at WednesdayApr 18 2:19 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: I am sure Carl can speak for himself, but my recollection was that it was the transposition problem. If you are entering big 19th scores in Finale, 2012 is a non-starter because of this problem, esp. if an earlier version is available. The transposition problem is that Fin2012 forces you to change instruments just to change transposition. While this may make sense for saxophones or oboe/e.h., it makes absolutely no sense for trumpets, french horns, or wagner tubas in a 19th century setting. Robert, It's not really that big a kludge. Here is the procedure from MakeMusic, to change the transposition but keep the same playback. To change the transposition of a staff you will need to change the instrument, then adjust the playback sounds and transposition. To do so: 1. Use the Selection Tool 2. Highlight the measure you would like the transposition to occur in 3. Go to Utilities Change Instrument and select a different instrument (each new transposition on the same line will need a different instrument selected. Any single line instrument will work because we will change the playback sound) 4. Go to Window ScoreManager and click on the Instrument List tab 5. Just to the left of the instrument name you will see an arrow pointing at the name. Click on that arrow to expand that instrument information. Select the instrument that you changed the line to at the bottom of the expanded section 6. With this instrumented selected, you can change the transposition with the pull-down menu at the bottom right of the ScoreManager. If it is not one of the common transpositions in the menu, you can select Other and create your own. 7. Still in the ScoreManager, change the playback sound of the new instrument by clicking on the assigned sound and selecting Horn in F from the pull-down menu. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
On Wed Apr 18, at WednesdayApr 18 9:05 PM, dershem wrote: On 4/18/2012 12:03 AM, SN jef chippewa wrote: carl, i am about to upgrade a few things, including finale, and wonder if you could tell me what you found so disastrous moving from 2010 to 2012 (which is what i would be doing soon). For one thing, I could not upgrade on-line. I simply would NOT function, so even though I bought the upgrade on-line, I had to pay extra for a CD. Carl, did you give it enough time? The initial download is just the installer. Once you double-click it, the ACTUAL download starts and can take quite a while, especially if you don't have a super-fast connection or the MakeMusic server was overloaded. It took me well over an hour. For another, many functions ceased to function: Hide staff for part of the piano staff didn't work. Had you enabled hide normally in the group attributes IN THE PIANO PART (just in the score might not do it)? Extract Parts would NOT save as [filename+partname+ whatevr] - I had to manually name each part. I haven't seen this, as I don't extract parts that often. Do you have slashes in the staff/part name? That might kill a file creation on Mac (I see it all the time when creating PDFs), and it has been this way for a while. If you are on Windows, I don't know. Page format was messed up - the first 3 pages of every part and score had to be enlarged 10 112% to be seen/print normally, and pages after that needed to be reduced to 70% to then match the earlier pages. I have my suspicions about that. There are several explanations, involving the Zoom tool and the default page/system sizes, which I have had to suss out before. Short answer, it's not a bug, it's just an unwanted or misunderstood behaviour. If you could send me a file privately, I'll check it out, and you won't be bothered with it again. Those are just the three that I thought of first. It is just FULL of bugs and errors. 2010 works, 2012 does not - it takes more effort to do what 2010 did effortlessly. cd ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2012 vs 2010
Just to iterate this further, I visited the IMSLP site and looked at the horn and trumpet parts for Lohengrin. It calls for horns transposing in (at various times in 4 horn parts) E, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, A, C, Bb and trumpet transpositions in C, D, Eb, E, and F. Entering that many transpositions for the same instrument in Finale 2012 would require maintenance of a spreadsheet to keep it all straight, which is the most damning evidence of a failed computer program: it would require you to use a spreadsheet to use it. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Ryan Beard ry.squa...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, but it gets complicated when you have a piece with horn in D and horn in E and horn in F, and their bass clef counterparts, like so many 19th century pieces. If MakeMusic can preload the Vuvuzela in the instrument list, they should certainly include standard horn and trumpet transpositions. On Apr 18, 2012, at 6:15 PM, Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote: Yes, the procedure I outlined is to do just that. It isn't preloaded, but it isn't all that difficult. Make this change in your default document and you shouldn't have to do it again. Actually, I haven't checked to see if it saves to my default doc. But I'm hoping it will work! Christopher On Wed Apr 18, at WednesdayApr 18 7:53 PM, Ryan Beard wrote: The issue is changing to an instrument that isn't already preloaded. For example, Horn in D, Horn in E, etc. On Apr 18, 2012, at 4:36 PM, Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote: On Wed Apr 18, at WednesdayApr 18 2:19 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: I am sure Carl can speak for himself, but my recollection was that it was the transposition problem. If you are entering big 19th scores in Finale, 2012 is a non-starter because of this problem, esp. if an earlier version is available. The transposition problem is that Fin2012 forces you to change instruments just to change transposition. While this may make sense for saxophones or oboe/e.h., it makes absolutely no sense for trumpets, french horns, or wagner tubas in a 19th century setting. Robert, It's not really that big a kludge. Here is the procedure from MakeMusic, to change the transposition but keep the same playback. To change the transposition of a staff you will need to change the instrument, then adjust the playback sounds and transposition. To do so: 1. Use the Selection Tool 2. Highlight the measure you would like the transposition to occur in 3. Go to Utilities Change Instrument and select a different instrument (each new transposition on the same line will need a different instrument selected. Any single line instrument will work because we will change the playback sound) 4. Go to Window ScoreManager and click on the Instrument List tab 5. Just to the left of the instrument name you will see an arrow pointing at the name. Click on that arrow to expand that instrument information. Select the instrument that you changed the line to at the bottom of the expanded section 6. With this instrumented selected, you can change the transposition with the pull-down menu at the bottom right of the ScoreManager. If it is not one of the common transpositions in the menu, you can select Other and create your own. 7. Still in the ScoreManager, change the playback sound of the new instrument by clicking on the assigned sound and selecting Horn in F from the pull-down menu. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
