Re: [Finale] TAN: Olympic Star Spangled Banner
At 4:29 pm -0400 8/28/04, Darcy James Argue wrote: No, that's not what I meant at all. What I meant was, Brad seemed to be having trouble putting himself in the shoes of an Iraqi olympian who has lost thousands of his countrymen and finds his country occupied by a foreign power. Oh. That one. The one who can no longer look forward to Uday's perverted tortures on days when he underperforms. I can certainly see why _he'd_ want Saddam and the kids back... After all, sometimes you need someone who can show you how to break down the barriers and perform your best. http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/7242_920360,001800090001.htm http://www.google.com/search?hl=enie=ISO-8859-1q=%2Buday+%2Bsaddam+%2Bolympic+%2Btorture -=-Dennis ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Olympic Star Spangled Banner
Brad Beyenhof wrote: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:45:01 -0700, Richard Yates [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the arrangement that is being used in the Olympics this time around. The '..rockets red glare' section is sweet and peaceful. Not a good match for the words, but better than an a swaggering march. There was a discussion recently on the mailing list of the Society for Music Theory. Below are a couple of excerpts. -Brad ** I had heard that the American athletes were instructed to be low-key and respectful if they win, so as not to provoke anti-American sentiments during this wartime. Was this version of the SSB chosen for similar reasons? To be less aggressive and less militaristic? Interestingly, the arrangement becomes most obfuscating and divergent from the standard version when it gets to the line bombs bursting in air. ** Columnist Maureen Dowd wrote about this very thing in her column today. Her opinion was that the musical arrangement was tailored to put the USA in a softer light. Interestingly enough, in a parallel discussion on orchestralist, it was pointed out that the official Department of Defense version has that section marked pianissimo, so it's still supposed to put things in a softer light. At least according to the official U.S. D.o.D. version, it's not supposed to be bombastic. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Olympic Star Spangled Banner
I certainly do not consider myself to be overly chauvinistic or a jingoist. However, in consideration of all our country has done for the world over the past two hundred years in terms of global aide and other charitable acts, I am much more than sick and tired of being portrayed as the cosmic Bad Guy. What other nation would even consider emasculating the performance of its National Anthem in fear that the rest of the world might be offended by its rightfully earned pride? And, where is the outrage over the HOST crowd preventing the start of a race via the jeering directed at three Americans who simply came to their country to compete in an environment of purported equal access and non bias? Considering the fact that the situation was caused by the misdeeds of a dishonorable Greek athlete in the first place, one is truly disgusted and shocked by this indefensible behavior. As for the the emotional effect of our National Anthem, I prefer a version which constricts my throat muscles and produces horripilation, rather than one which equivocates and apologizes for our existence in the face of an ungrateful world. Dean M. Estabrook, American On Aug 27, 2004, at 11:35 PM, Brad Beyenhof wrote: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:45:01 -0700, Richard Yates [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the arrangement that is being used in the Olympics this time around. The '..rockets red glare' section is sweet and peaceful. Not a good match for the words, but better than an a swaggering march. There was a discussion recently on the mailing list of the Society for Music Theory. Below are a couple of excerpts. -Brad ** I had heard that the American athletes were instructed to be low-key and respectful if they win, so as not to provoke anti-American sentiments during this wartime. Was this version of the SSB chosen for similar reasons? To be less aggressive and less militaristic? Interestingly, the arrangement becomes most obfuscating and divergent from the standard version when it gets to the line bombs bursting in air. ** Columnist Maureen Dowd wrote about this very thing in her column today. Her opinion was that the musical arrangement was tailored to put the USA in a softer light. ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Para mí, la música es la respiración de la vida y del dios. Per me, la musica è l'alito di vita e del dio. Pour moi, la musique est le souffle de la vie et de Dieu. Für mich ist Musik der Atem des Lebens und des Gottes. Dean M. Estabrook Director of Music St. Andrew Presbyterian Church Yuba City, CA ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Olympic Star Spangled Banner
On 28 Aug 2004, at 03:04 PM, Richard Walsh wrote: Huh, I'm sorry if this is off topic, but kindly name for me the source of this outrageous statement, Sure thing: Since the late 1940s, when more than 15% of every U.S. tax dollar was sent overseas to help rebuild war-torn Europe, the share of the federal budget devoted to foreign aid has declined steadily. This year it was $15 billion, less than 1% of the government's $1.9 trillion budget. The amount spent on feeding, housing and educating the world's poorest citizens, which many experts see as the most effective way to win goodwill, is even less. More than one-third of foreign aid is earmarked for military and law enforcement operations. http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2001/12/04/foreignaid-usat.htm and please name for me the countries who give more than the US. Japan, for starters. In fact, from 1992-2000, Japan not only spent more on foreign aid as a percentage of its budget, it also spent more in *actual dollars* than the United States, despite the fact that its budget is much smaller. See here: http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp Did you go to Brown? Uh, no. Is that supposed to be a dis? - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Olympic Star Spangled Banner
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:13:16 -0400, Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, I just can't let this go. Brad wrote (RE: a member of the Iraqi soccer team): What a bunch of ingrates! We rescue his country from the grip of a tyrant, and this is the thanks we get? What it comes down to is this: don't you think it's a little much to expect America to be both universally feared and universally loved? Pick one. Firstly, those attitudes are not mutually exclusive. Secondly, I never said that everybody has to love America. I'm just requesting that our goodwill be met with something other than blind derision. -- Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Olympic Star Spangled Banner
Dean M. Estabrook writes: And, where is the outrage over the HOST crowd preventing the start of a race via the jeering directed at three Americans who simply came to their country to compete in an environment of purported equal access and non bias? Considering the fact that the situation was caused by the misdeeds of a dishonorable Greek athlete in the first place, one is truly disgusted and shocked by this indefensible behavior. Frankly, I can't see how you can see this as a protest against the Americans. In our country at least, the booing was considered to be a protest against the IOC (and WADA) that they hunted an innocent Greek athlete, with the result that he could not participate in the 200m. Fact #1: There were athletes from other countries than the US in the 200m finals. Fact #2: The booing did not occur at the price ceremony of the 200m, where 3 Americans stood on the podium. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Olympic Star Spangled Banner
If I could chime in here, there is one posture (other than loved and feared) that was left out of the equation, and that was respected, It is good to be loved, if not loved, then at least respected, if not respected, then one must be feared... 'twas ever thus. RW On Saturday, August 28, 2004, at 12:55 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: On Aug 28, 2004, at 12:36 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 28 Aug 2004, at 03:18 PM, Brad Beyenhof wrote: On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:13:16 -0400, Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What it comes down to is this: don't you think it's a little much to expect America to be both universally feared and universally loved? Pick one. Firstly, those attitudes are not mutually exclusive. Yes they are. Sorry. Secondly, I never said that everybody has to love America. I'm just requesting that our goodwill be met with something other than blind derision. Brad, all I'm asking for is a little empathy for non-Americans here. Do you know anything about the Iraqi soccer player in question? For all we know, his brother could have been tortured or killed in Abu Graib. His mother may have been killed by a bombing run gone awry. 12,000 Iraqi civilians have died so far in this conflict (and yes, we know that not all of those deaths were caused by U.S. forces. But most were.) Can you possibly imagine how you would feel your country were invaded by a foreign power and 12,000 of your countrymen had been killed in the conflict? - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY Well, actually, I only know how it feels to have about 3000 of my countrymen killed in that manner. And we know who did that. Dean ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Para mí, la música es la respiración de la vida y del dios. Per me, la musica è l'alito di vita e del dio. Pour moi, la musique est le souffle de la vie et de Dieu. Für mich ist Musik der Atem des Lebens und des Gottes. Dean M. Estabrook Director of Music St. Andrew Presbyterian Church Yuba City, CA ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Olympic Star Spangled Banner
On 28 Aug 2004, at 04:19 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I inferred from your post that we Americans didn't know how it felt to lose a large number of countrymen in an attack by a foreign force. No, that's not what I meant at all. What I meant was, Brad seemed to be having trouble putting himself in the shoes of an Iraqi olympian who has lost thousands of his countrymen and finds his country occupied by a foreign power. Post-9/11, that kind of empathy ought to be easier for Americans, not harder. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Olympic Star Spangled Banner
On Aug 28, 2004, at 9:56 AM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: As for the the emotional effect of our National Anthem, I prefer a version which constricts my throat muscles and produces horripilation [...] I don't know about horripilation, but I definitely prefer a version which DOESN'T constrict my throat muscles. mdl, singer ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Olympic Star Spangled Banner
On Aug 28, 2004, at 1:29 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 28 Aug 2004, at 04:19 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I inferred from your post that we Americans didn't know how it felt to lose a large number of countrymen in an attack by a foreign force. No, that's not what I meant at all. What I meant was, Brad seemed to be having trouble putting himself in the shoes of an Iraqi olympian who has lost thousands of his countrymen and finds his country occupied by a foreign power. Post-9/11, that kind of empathy ought to be easier for Americans, not harder. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY Ah, I see. Thank you. I shall now sign off on this topic, in the fear that the erudite Mr. Fenton will launch another ad hominem barrage upon me. Sincerely, The Pig-Ignorant Moron ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Para mí, la música es la respiración de la vida y del dios. Per me, la musica è l'alito di vita e del dio. Pour moi, la musique est le souffle de la vie et de Dieu. Für mich ist Musik der Atem des Lebens und des Gottes. Dean M. Estabrook Director of Music St. Andrew Presbyterian Church Yuba City, CA ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: Olympic Star Spangled Banner
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 16:29:23 -0400, Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 28 Aug 2004, at 04:19 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I inferred from your post that we Americans didn't know how it felt to lose a large number of countrymen in an attack by a foreign force. No, that's not what I meant at all. What I meant was, Brad seemed to be having trouble putting himself in the shoes of an Iraqi olympian who has lost thousands of his countrymen and finds his country occupied by a foreign power. Post-9/11, that kind of empathy ought to be easier for Americans, not harder. Ah. I hadn't thought of it quite that way, and it does present the Iraqi's comments in a much different light. You've given me more to think about, but I shall do it in the privacy of my own home from now on. That way, I won't risk upsetting posters who feel the need to read the body of every email message they receive, no matter what it says in the subject. -- Brad Beyenhof [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] TAN: Olympic Star Spangled Banner
I like the arrangement that is being used in the Olympics this time around. The '..rockets red glare' section is sweet and peaceful. Not a good match for the words, but better than an a swaggering march. Anyone know who did it or how they choose? Richard Yates ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
