Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[dhbailey]

My bad, on both counts.  Thanks for the links.

David


Bob Morabito wrote:
Sorry David, but your wrong on this..we'll chalk it up to your bad 
memory, and even WORSE Googling.:):)


Heres a bunch on it

 



--OR--

http://tinyurl.com/2gy4f2k


Thanks Bob

On Jul 8, 2010, at 10:24 AM, dhbailey wrote:


I think not -- could be my bad memory, but I recall it as being:

"The decline and fall of western civilization in C# minor."

I just tried to find it, but after getting lots of hits with 
commentary about the movie, I could find nothing referring to this 
subtitle.


Oh well -- I certainly enjoyed watching it way back when it was 
actually in a theater in Cambridge, MA.


David H. Bailey

Bob Morabito wrote:

What is--"The Decline of the West in C# Major " ?
Bob Morabito
On Jul 8, 2010, at 7:18 AM, dhbailey wrote:

Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote:

Wow!   I thought I was the only one who knew that movie!
And just FWIW: it wasn't a balloon.   It was 
anothersimilar.latex item.


Does anybody remember the subtitle to that movie?  This is a quiz -- 
I do remember what it is.


--
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dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Bob Morabito]

Sorry David, but your wrong on this..we'll chalk it up to your bad  
memory, and even WORSE Googling.:):)


Heres a bunch on it




--OR--

http://tinyurl.com/2gy4f2k


Thanks Bob

On Jul 8, 2010, at 10:24 AM, dhbailey wrote:


I think not -- could be my bad memory, but I recall it as being:

"The decline and fall of western civilization in C# minor."

I just tried to find it, but after getting lots of hits with  
commentary about the movie, I could find nothing referring to this  
subtitle.


Oh well -- I certainly enjoyed watching it way back when it was  
actually in a theater in Cambridge, MA.


David H. Bailey

Bob Morabito wrote:

What is--"The Decline of the West in C# Major " ?
Bob Morabito
On Jul 8, 2010, at 7:18 AM, dhbailey wrote:

Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote:

Wow!   I thought I was the only one who knew that movie!
And just FWIW: it wasn't a balloon.   It was  
anothersimilar.latex item.


Does anybody remember the subtitle to that movie?  This is a quiz  
-- I do remember what it is.


--
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[dhbailey]

I think not -- could be my bad memory, but I recall it as being:

"The decline and fall of western civilization in C# minor."

I just tried to find it, but after getting lots of hits with 
commentary about the movie, I could find nothing referring 
to this subtitle.


Oh well -- I certainly enjoyed watching it way back when it 
was actually in a theater in Cambridge, MA.


David H. Bailey

Bob Morabito wrote:

What is--"The Decline of the West in C# Major " ?

Bob Morabito
On Jul 8, 2010, at 7:18 AM, dhbailey wrote:


Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote:

Wow!   I thought I was the only one who knew that movie!
And just FWIW: it wasn't a balloon.   It was 
anothersimilar.latex item.


Does anybody remember the subtitle to that movie?  This is a quiz -- I 
do remember what it is.


--
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dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Bob Morabito]

What is--"The Decline of the West in C# Major " ?

Bob Morabito
On Jul 8, 2010, at 7:18 AM, dhbailey wrote:


Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote:

Wow!   I thought I was the only one who knew that movie!
And just FWIW: it wasn't a balloon.   It was  
anothersimilar.latex item.


Does anybody remember the subtitle to that movie?  This is a quiz  
-- I do remember what it is.


--
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[dhbailey]

Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote:

Wow!   I thought I was the only one who knew that movie!

And just FWIW: it wasn't a balloon.   It was anothersimilar.latex item.



Does anybody remember the subtitle to that movie?  This is a 
quiz -- I do remember what it is.


--
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dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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RE: [Finale] Doubling part label

[John Howell]

At 9:36 PM -0400 7/7/10, Guy Hayden wrote:


I think PG is from a period when the
key-signatures only occur at the top of the page.


It sure is, and it drives me nuts.  Especially with constant key changes.

I just checked my book.  The exit music is actually in C major, but 
the Fashion Parade is in Db.  And we've got lots of Gb major and even 
Cb major in the string books, which we would MUCH prefer to read in 
F# and B!  The flat keys force us down into half position.


Our MD hasn't decided what to use for bow music yet.  That's always a 
challenge when it isn't provided, but there's always SOMETHING that 
can be pulled out.  For "King & I" there was parade music on "March 
of the Siamese Children" for a cross in front of the curtain that our 
stage director omitted (a very narrow apron and safety concerns), so 
I used that for bows and it worked great.


John


--
John Howell
Assistant Music Director & Orchestra Manager
"The Pajama Game," Summer 2010
john.how...@vt.edu
VOX (540) 953-1928; FAX (540) 231-5034

"Canto, ergo sum."
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RE: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Guy Hayden]

I did Pajama Game some years ago and have a not-so-funny story.

As I recall, the exit music is a reprise of "Hey there".  It is in a key
that makes for a smooth transition from the final fashion show number.  I
think they are both in B major (ugh!).  At any rate, for the final
performance which was an add-on to the scheduled run I had a sub trombone
player who had not played any rehearsals or performance.  As it happens, the
trombone plays the tune throughout the exit.  For some reason it is written
in C flat (go figure).  Yup, he lit into in it C major.  OMIGOD!  He never
bothered to look up so I couldn't fix it.  What a racket!  Funny thing is,
about halfway through I stopped hearing him a half-step sharp!  I really
hated it when the lift started up to expose us to the world making a mess of
the BIG hit from the show!

Make sure you check this out.  Also, I think PG is from a period when the
key-signatures only occur at the top of the page.

Guy Hayden

-Original Message-
From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of
dershem
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 8:49 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

On 7/7/2010 10:11 AM, John Howell wrote:
> At 8:56 PM -0700 7/6/10, dershem wrote:
>>
>> But a warning is always welcome. I do the same with mute changes,
>> using "get plunger ready" and the like. With software, it's easy to
>> do, and there's really no reason not to.
>
> Absolutely. Case in point: we're in rehearsal for our annual summer
> musical (The Pajama Game, 1954), and the string books are filled with
> pizz., arco, con sordino, and senza sordino markings that ARE NOT
> CANCELLED! We're having to make it up as we go along. (Which means my
> concertmaster is earning her no-pay!) And we had the same problem with
> modern engraved books for "Joseph" last summer, so it isn't just a case
> of a single sloppy copyist back in 1954!
>
> Good copy, easy to read, but horrible page turns.
>
> John

The local light opera company is doing Pajama Game this summer. 
Apparently it's a popular show right now.  :)

Alas, I'm not on the contractor's short list, and won't be in the pit.  :(

cd
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[dershem]

On 7/7/2010 6:29 PM, John Howell wrote:

At 5:48 PM -0700 7/7/10, dershem wrote:


The local light opera company is doing Pajama Game this summer.
Apparently it's a popular show right now. :)

Alas, I'm not on the contractor's short list, and won't be in the pit. :(


You'd be welcome in my pit anytime, but unfortunately we're a 100%
community volunteer operation, including the creative staff and
orchestra, and have been for 19 years. We do have some decent community
musicians, and usually a few excellent younger students. Our best
cellist is 13, and played last summer when he was 12! And we have one
principal dancer this summer who's 12, and darned good.

John


Thanks, John!

I've worked with some amazing young players, and have learned to never 
underestimate them.  "Just make the best of the talents we're given" is 
my take on it all.


cd
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[John Howell]

At 5:48 PM -0700 7/7/10, dershem wrote:


The local light opera company is doing Pajama Game this summer. 
Apparently it's a popular show right now.  :)


Alas, I'm not on the contractor's short list, and won't be in the pit.  :(


You'd be welcome in my pit anytime, but unfortunately we're a 100% 
community volunteer operation, including the creative staff and 
orchestra, and have been for 19 years.  We do have some decent 
community musicians, and usually a few excellent younger students. 
Our best cellist is 13, and played last summer when he was 12!  And 
we have one principal dancer this summer who's 12, and darned good.


John


--
John Howell
Assistant Music Director & Orchestra Manager
"The Pajama Game," Summer 2010
john.how...@vt.edu
VOX (540) 953-1928; FAX (540) 231-5034

"Canto, ergo sum."
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[dershem]

On 7/7/2010 10:11 AM, John Howell wrote:

At 8:56 PM -0700 7/6/10, dershem wrote:


But a warning is always welcome. I do the same with mute changes,
using "get plunger ready" and the like. With software, it's easy to
do, and there's really no reason not to.


Absolutely. Case in point: we're in rehearsal for our annual summer
musical (The Pajama Game, 1954), and the string books are filled with
pizz., arco, con sordino, and senza sordino markings that ARE NOT
CANCELLED! We're having to make it up as we go along. (Which means my
concertmaster is earning her no-pay!) And we had the same problem with
modern engraved books for "Joseph" last summer, so it isn't just a case
of a single sloppy copyist back in 1954!

Good copy, easy to read, but horrible page turns.

John


The local light opera company is doing Pajama Game this summer. 
Apparently it's a popular show right now.  :)


Alas, I'm not on the contractor's short list, and won't be in the pit.  :(

cd
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Mariposa Symphony Orchestra]

Wow!   I thought I was the only one who knew that movie!

And just FWIW: it wasn't a balloon.   It was anothersimilar.latex item.

Les Marsden
(209) 966-6988
Cell: (559) 708-6027 (Emergency only)
7145 Snyder Creek Road
Mariposa, CA  95338-9641

Founding Music Director and Conductor, 
The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra
Music and Mariposa?  Ah, Paradise!!!

Mariposa County Planning Commissioner, District 5
Past President, The Economic Development Corporation of Mariposa County

http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html
Marsden Marx Pages: http://tinyurl.com/ygpj7og
  - Original Message - 
  From: arabus...@austin.rr.com 
  To: finale@shsu.edu 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 12:13 PM
  Subject: Re: [Finale] Doubling part label


  I also recall a lot of paintings where the angels are playing 
sackbuts/trombones in heavenly settings. As you used to say to me and Bill 
Taggart, John, "you guys belong to a good union!"

  Anyone see Fellini's "Orchestra Rehearsal" movie? Where the trombonist 
carries on about his instrument being the instrument of the angels shortly 
before the trumpeter explodes a balloon that some jokester stuck in his bell.

   John Howell  wrote: 
  > At 4:06 AM -0500 7/7/10, Aaron Rabushka wrote:
  > >Angelic horn? you mean a sackbut?
  > 
  > Well, in the King James translation, Gabriel plays the trumpet, but 
  > in the Luther translation he plays the "Posaune."  Different unions, 
  > I guess!
  > 
  > Of course the Italian "trombone" does mean "a big trumpet."  (The 
  > suffix "...one" means "a big one," like a provalone is a big cheese.)
  > 
  > John
  > 
  > 
  > -- 
  > John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
  > Virginia Tech Department of Music
  > College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
  > Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
  > Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
  > (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
  > http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
  > 
  > "We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
  > of jazz musicians.
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[John Howell]

At 1:26 PM -0400 7/7/10, Christopher Smith wrote:

On Wed Jul 7, at WednesdayJul 7 1:11 PM, John Howell wrote:


Absolutely.  Case in point:  we're in rehearsal for our annual 
summer musical (The Pajama Game, 1954), and the string books are 
filled with pizz., arco, con sordino, and senza sordino markings 
that ARE NOT CANCELLED!  We're having to make it up as we go along.


Heh heh! That's more than likely from the arranger's actual score. 
We arrangers (blush!) are notorious for putting specialty techniques 
in (like mutes and pizz) and then forgetting to cancel them. I have 
to make a special pass through the score just to check for those 
markings, because I always forget to cancel them.


Yeah.  Me too.  I don't always write straight through, and might well 
jump from place to place and then go back and fill in, so I have to 
do exactly the same.  And no matter how many times you check, the 
number of errors will always be n + 1.


John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[arabushka]

I also recall a lot of paintings where the angels are playing 
sackbuts/trombones in heavenly settings. As you used to say to me and Bill 
Taggart, John, "you guys belong to a good union!"

Anyone see Fellini's "Orchestra Rehearsal" movie? Where the trombonist carries 
on about his instrument being the instrument of the angels shortly before the 
trumpeter explodes a balloon that some jokester stuck in his bell.

 John Howell  wrote: 
> At 4:06 AM -0500 7/7/10, Aaron Rabushka wrote:
> >Angelic horn? you mean a sackbut?
> 
> Well, in the King James translation, Gabriel plays the trumpet, but 
> in the Luther translation he plays the "Posaune."  Different unions, 
> I guess!
> 
> Of course the Italian "trombone" does mean "a big trumpet."  (The 
> suffix "...one" means "a big one," like a provalone is a big cheese.)
> 
> John
> 
> 
> -- 
> John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
> Virginia Tech Department of Music
> College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
> Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
> Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
> (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
> http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
> 
> "We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
> of jazz musicians.
> ___
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> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[John Howell]

At 4:06 AM -0500 7/7/10, Aaron Rabushka wrote:

Angelic horn? you mean a sackbut?


Well, in the King James translation, Gabriel plays the trumpet, but 
in the Luther translation he plays the "Posaune."  Different unions, 
I guess!


Of course the Italian "trombone" does mean "a big trumpet."  (The 
suffix "...one" means "a big one," like a provalone is a big cheese.)


John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Christopher Smith]

On Wed Jul 7, at WednesdayJul 7 1:29 PM, John Howell wrote:

Of course the guy who managed my quartet for a while grew up in  
Canada and was fluent in French (his father was a famous chef on  
the Canadian-Pacific Railroad), and he acted as a liaison with the  
French military right after WW II, but they made fun of him and  
told him his French was from the 16th century!



It's true that a lot of Canadian French is archaic, compared to  
France today. The language continued to evolve in both places, but in  
different ways, just as English diverged in England and in the New  
World. I suspect that in today's cultural climate of air travel, TV,  
movies and the Internet, that the differences are getting reduced  
rather than accentuated.


Christopher

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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[John Howell]

At 12:58 AM -0400 7/7/10, Christopher Smith wrote:


And most anglophone Canadians who speak French too are not stuck up, 
they are just trying to get along with their fellow citizens. Some 
might take exception to your position.


And they would be quite correct to, so my apologies in advance.  I 
was taking it as being an example of "conspicuous education," 
something that was definitely used to differentiate England's 
stratified social classes.  Kind of like Jackie Kennedy's showing off 
her facility in French, which she had simply because she was raised 
in a wealthy Northeast family.  In Canada it's a necessary social 
skill.


Of course the guy who managed my quartet for a while grew up in 
Canada and was fluent in French (his father was a famous chef on the 
Canadian-Pacific Railroad), and he acted as a liaison with the French 
military right after WW II, but they made fun of him and told him his 
French was from the 16th century!


John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Christopher Smith]

On Wed Jul 7, at WednesdayJul 7 1:11 PM, John Howell wrote:


Absolutely.  Case in point:  we're in rehearsal for our annual  
summer musical (The Pajama Game, 1954), and the string books are  
filled with pizz., arco, con sordino, and senza sordino markings  
that ARE NOT CANCELLED!  We're having to make it up as we go along.


Heh heh! That's more than likely from the arranger's actual score. We  
arrangers (blush!) are notorious for putting specialty techniques in  
(like mutes and pizz) and then forgetting to cancel them. I have to  
make a special pass through the score just to check for those  
markings, because I always forget to cancel them.


Christopher


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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[John Howell]

At 12:09 AM -0400 7/7/10, Christopher Smith wrote:


Roemer agrees with John Blane (and with me!) that the key signature 
change should occur in the first measure containing notes on the new 
instrument. The change itself (in English) is indicated well in 
advance, but the key only changes with the first entrance of the new 
instrument. Chapter 14, page 110 in my edition of The Art of Music 
Copying.


(Page 106 in mine, copyright 1973.)

Yes, I can see what you mean.  And it's a REALLY good idea to have 
the key signature right there in the first bar the new instrument 
plays, even when it's in the middle of the line.  Now that I see it, 
I'm going to have to rethink my policy.


Of course in hand copy, you can insert a key signature wherever you 
want it.  In computer engraving, you usually can't because the 
computer thinks you're being an idiot.


John


--
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Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[John Howell]

At 8:56 PM -0700 7/6/10, dershem wrote:


But a warning is always welcome.  I do the same with mute changes, 
using "get plunger ready" and the like.  With software, it's easy to 
do, and there's really no reason not to.


Absolutely.  Case in point:  we're in rehearsal for our annual summer 
musical (The Pajama Game, 1954), and the string books are filled with 
pizz., arco, con sordino, and senza sordino markings that ARE NOT 
CANCELLED!  We're having to make it up as we go along.  (Which means 
my concertmaster is earning her no-pay!)  And we had the same problem 
with modern engraved books for "Joseph" last summer, so it isn't just 
a case of a single sloppy copyist back in 1954!


Good copy, easy to read, but horrible page turns.

John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Aaron Rabushka]

Angelic horn? you mean a sackbut?

Aaron J. Rabushka
arabus...@austin.rr.com
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 2:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Finale] Doubling part label


"Cor anglais" is stuck up? I thought it was simply British, for 
people who know that the English horn is neither English nor a horn.


French, actually.  French for "English horn," which is apparently 
where the term came from.


Actually it was originally: angelic horn, as in horn of the angels. 


/ Cb
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Eric Fiedler]

 At the moment I'm editing a cantata by Telemann written for a funeral in 1722 
which calls for one "oboa d'amore", which sent me running to Johann Gottfried 
Walther, who writes (Musicalisches Lexikon, 1732) that the oboe d'amore 
"appeared around 1720". He continues "it resembles the oboe in almost every 
detail, except for the foot joint, which is closed, with a small finger-sized 
opening. The range is from "a" to "a2"...". So (for once) Wikipedia would seem 
to be about right. (Probably) also with regard to "engellisches Horn" and the 
etymology of "english horn".
Eric

On 07.07.2010, at 05:36, John Howell wrote:

> But when the characteristic bell-shape that gives the E.H. (and the modern 
> oboe d'amore) its characteristic sound first turned up, I don't know.  It was 
> certainly not used in Bach's time, when the alto oboe in F was called 
> "Taille" or "oboe da caccia" (and there, probably is the association with the 
> hunting horn, or corno da caccia), and had, in at least one museum 
> instrument, a brass-instrument-like flaring bell.


Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler)
www.habsburgerverlag.de
eric.f.fied...@t-online.de
e.fied...@em.uni-frankfurt.de




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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[chris]

>>"Cor anglais" is stuck up? I thought it was simply British, for 
>>people who know that the English horn is neither English nor a horn.
>
>French, actually.  French for "English horn," which is apparently 
>where the term came from.

Actually it was originally: angelic horn, as in horn of the angels. 

/ Cb
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Aaron Rabushka]

...not to mention the CanadiEns, on and off the ice!

Aaron J. Rabushka
arabus...@austin.rr.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher Smith" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] Doubling part label




On Tue Jul 6, at TuesdayJul 6 11:36 PM, John Howell wrote:

(For whatever it's worth, I also consider pseudo-French spellings  
of words like centre and theatre to be stuck up, adopted in England  
to show that people had studied French!)



The "theatre" spelling, which apart from being standard British  
spelling, even among the mono-lingual, is also used in Canada and  
dates back to the 1700's, according to my sources. The word IS a  
French word (not pseudo at all), borrowed (as many English words are)  
either with or without the anglicised spelling. Many Canadians, such  
as myself, cling to the "re" spelling (along with spellings such as  
"anglicised" instead of the American "anglicized") as much from  
stubbornness as from patriotism. It's just the way we learned to  
spell it!


The "er" standardised spelling used by Americans can be traced back  
to Webster, according to this link, while the "re" spelling became  
standard in Britain with the earlier Johnson's dictionary. Both were  
in use before then.


http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=-re&searchmode=none


And most anglophone Canadians who speak French too are not stuck up,  
they are just trying to get along with their fellow citizens. Some  
might take exception to your position.


Christopher


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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Christopher Smith]

On Tue Jul 6, at TuesdayJul 6 11:36 PM, John Howell wrote:

(For whatever it's worth, I also consider pseudo-French spellings  
of words like centre and theatre to be stuck up, adopted in England  
to show that people had studied French!)



The "theatre" spelling, which apart from being standard British  
spelling, even among the mono-lingual, is also used in Canada and  
dates back to the 1700's, according to my sources. The word IS a  
French word (not pseudo at all), borrowed (as many English words are)  
either with or without the anglicised spelling. Many Canadians, such  
as myself, cling to the "re" spelling (along with spellings such as  
"anglicised" instead of the American "anglicized") as much from  
stubbornness as from patriotism. It's just the way we learned to  
spell it!


The "er" standardised spelling used by Americans can be traced back  
to Webster, according to this link, while the "re" spelling became  
standard in Britain with the earlier Johnson's dictionary. Both were  
in use before then.


http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=-re&searchmode=none


And most anglophone Canadians who speak French too are not stuck up,  
they are just trying to get along with their fellow citizens. Some  
might take exception to your position.


Christopher


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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Christopher Smith]

On Tue Jul 6, at TuesdayJul 6 11:42 PM, John Howell wrote:


At 8:57 PM -0500 7/6/10, John Blane wrote:
I believe that common practice is to not show the key sig change  
until the spot where the new instrument actually enters.


I'm not sure whether it is or not, but when I suggested putting it  
earlier, when the instrument change instruction is given, it was on  
purely practical grounds in order to get the player subconsciously  
ready for the new signature.  Of course there could well be key  
changes in between, but that doesn't necessarily change my mind.




Roemer agrees with John Blane (and with me!) that the key signature  
change should occur in the first measure containing notes on the new  
instrument. The change itself (in English) is indicated well in  
advance, but the key only changes with the first entrance of the new  
instrument. Chapter 14, page 110 in my edition of The Art of Music  
Copying.


Christopher



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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Christopher Smith]

On Tue Jul 6, at TuesdayJul 6 11:36 PM, John Howell wrote:
  "The name is sometimes said to derive from its original  
resemblance to the oboe da caccia, which tended to be either bent  
or curved in shape and was thus supposedly called a cor anglé`  
(bent horn), a name later corrupted to cor anglais. ... This,  
however, is a false etymology, as anglé does not mean angled in any  
language."


Not that I take Wikipedia as the last word on ANYTHING,


I'm not disputing the etymology of the term "cor anglais" but the  
reason they give, that "anglé" does not mean angled in any language  
is just wrong. It most certainly means "angled", as in arranged at an  
angle, in French. Now, whether or not that word existed in French in  
the present form at the time that the instrument found its name might  
be a case to be made, but it will take me too much research, and  
frankly I don't care that much. But the reasoning is wrong, just like  
reasoning that "history" doesn't include women because it has the  
word "his" in it.


Not taking Wikipedia as the last word is an excellent policy.

Christopher


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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[dershem]

On 7/6/2010 8:42 PM, John Howell wrote:

At 8:57 PM -0500 7/6/10, John Blane wrote:

I believe that common practice is to not show the key sig change until
the spot where the new instrument actually enters.


I'm not sure whether it is or not, but when I suggested putting it
earlier, when the instrument change instruction is given, it was on
purely practical grounds in order to get the player subconsciously ready
for the new signature. Of course there could well be key changes in
between, but that doesn't necessarily change my mind.

John


I always put indications when a change it to prepared for, or similar 
things happen.


If, for instance, I change from Alto Saxto Soprano Sax, I'll put "to 
Sop." at the end of the section where Alto is last played, but not 
change the key until the start of the section where the Soprano is used, 
with the indication "Soprano Sax" when the instrument begins to be used, 
or at the rehearsal mark closest to that (if, as is common, playing 
starts a measure or two into the section).


That's just because it looks neater, somehow.

But a warning is always welcome.  I do the same with mute changes, using 
"get plunger ready" and the like.  With software, it's easy to do, and 
there's really no reason not to.


cd
--
http://members.cox.net/dershem/index.html
http://dershem.livejournal.com/
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[John Howell]

At 8:57 PM -0500 7/6/10, John Blane wrote:
I believe that common practice is to not show the key sig change 
until the spot where the new instrument actually enters.


I'm not sure whether it is or not, but when I suggested putting it 
earlier, when the instrument change instruction is given, it was on 
purely practical grounds in order to get the player subconsciously 
ready for the new signature.  Of course there could well be key 
changes in between, but that doesn't necessarily change my mind.


John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[John Howell]

At 8:43 PM -0400 7/6/10, arabus...@austin.rr.com wrote:
Yes, French indeed, a near-sound-alike for "cor 
anglé" a reference to the angle between the reed 
and the rest of the instrument.


I don't think that etymology has been pinned 
down, but it certainly is suggestive.  Actually, 
if the term was used in the late 18th century, it 
would have referred to the sometime design of the 
alto (perhaps mislabeled tenor) oboe in F, which 
I've seen pictures of with the two halves of the 
body connected at an obtuse angle of as much as 
45 degrees (or sometimes simply bent in a curved 
shape).  The bent reed staple is a much more 
modern invention.  The bent or "knick" system 
made it easier to reach the six open holes before 
keywork was added to them, and is used today on 
the Yamaha plastic bass recorder.


But when the characteristic bell-shape that gives 
the E.H. (and the modern oboe d'amore) its 
characteristic sound first turned up, I don't 
know.  It was certainly not used in Bach's time, 
when the alto oboe in F was called "Taille" or 
"oboe da caccia" (and there, probably is the 
association with the hunting horn, or corno da 
caccia), and had, in at least one museum 
instrument, a brass-instrument-like flaring bell.


(For whatever it's worth, I also consider 
pseudo-French spellings of words like centre and 
theatre to be stuck up, adopted in England to 
show that people had studied French!)


Ah, Wikipedia to the rescue!  Which claims that 
the instrument "is thought to have originated in 
Silesia about 1720, when a bulb bell was added to 
the oboe da caccia, a Baroque alto instrument of 
the oboe family, possibly by J. T. Weigel of 
Breslau.  The two-keyed, open-belled straight 
tenor oboe (in French called 'taille de 
hautbois," i.e., tenor oboe) and more especially 
the flare-belled oboe da caccia resembled the 
horns played by angels in religious icons of the 
Middle Ages and this gave rise in German-speaking 
central Europe to the Middle High German name 
"engellisches Horn," meaning "angelic horn."  But 
engellisch also meant English in the vernacular 
of the time, and so the angelic horn became the 
English horn."  ...  "The name is sometimes said 
to derive from its original resemblance to the 
oboe da caccia, which tended to be either bent or 
curved in shape and was thus supposedly called a 
cor anglé` (bent horn), a name later corrupted to 
cor anglais. ... This, however, is a false 
etymology, as anglé does not mean angled in any 
language."


Not that I take Wikipedia as the last word on 
ANYTHING, but the article is interesting, in part 
because it identifies the instrument specifically 
by the adoption of the pear-shaped bell, which 
caused quite a different sound to be produced, as 
we all know.


If anyone remembers the fantastic Billy May 
album, "Sorta Dixie," you might remember that it 
featured jazz choruses taken by both the English 
horn and the piccolo, which inspired me to write 
a piece for our community band, "Ed's Blues," 
featuring our English hornist in a (written out) 
jazz-style solo, and she did a really great job!


John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.

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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[John Blane]

I believe that common practice is to not show the key sig change until  
the spot where the new instrument actually enters.



On Jul 5, 2010, at 11:48 PM, Ryan wrote:

At the end of the Oboe passage, I would put "to English Horn." If  
you're
using key signatures, I would personally prefer to see the key  
change right
there, as well as staff name change in the score. I do this with a  
Staff
Style. At the beginning of the English Horn passage, I would put  
"English

Horn." Same process for returning to Oboe.


John Blane
Blane Music Preparation 
1649 Huntington Ln.
Highland Park, IL 60035
847 579-9900
847 579-9903 fax
www.BlaneMusic.com
j...@blanemusic.com



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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[arabushka]

Yes, French indeed, a near-sound-alike for "cor anglé" a reference to the angle 
between the reed and the rest of the instrument. My two major references for 
its usage be Brits come from H. C. Robbins Landon's notes to Haydn's Symphony 
22, and to Antony Hopkins's repeated use in the old "BBC Music Showcase" 
broadcasts.

Aaron J. Rabushka
all of whose recordings come from the land of "lesnich a anglickich rohu"

 John Howell  wrote: 
> At 7:04 PM -0400 7/6/10, arabus...@austin.rr.com wrote:
> >"Cor anglais" is stuck up? I thought it was simply British, for 
> >people who know that the English horn is neither English nor a horn.
> 
> French, actually.  French for "English horn," which is apparently 
> where the term came from.  Which, as you say, is neither English nor 
> a horn.  Of course the French horn is not French, either!  The most 
> accurate terms are "cor" or "corno" (horn), "cornetto" (small horn), 
> and "cornettino" (little small horn).  Kind of like "violoncello" 
> means something like "little big violin."
> 
> You expected maybe logic?!!!
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >Aaron J. Rabushka
> >who would most likely write "oboe/corno inglese"
> >
> >
> > John Howell  wrote:
> >>  At 9:10 PM -0700 7/5/10, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
> >>  >While we're at it ... I'm writing an orchestral piece that uses both
> >>  >Oboe and English Horn, played by the same person. How are those
> >>  >parts labeled, and how is the transposition for the E.H. handled in
> >>  >score and part(s), if you know what I mean?
> >>  >
> >>  >Dean
> >>
> >>  I would simply write "Oboe/English Horn," or "Oboe 3/English Horn"
> >>  (or substitute Cor Anglais if I were feeling stuck up!).  And I'm not
> >>  sure I understand your second question.  In a concert pitch score
> >>  nothing would change.  In a transposed score and in the part, the
> >>  transposition would change.  Seems simple enough.  The only question
> >>  would be where to put the key signature change, but I would put it
> >>  early rather than late, where the change instruction appears, to
> >>  avoid confusion.
> >>
> >>  John
> >>
> >>
> >>  --
> >>  John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
> >>  Virginia Tech Department of Music
> >>  College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
> >>  Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
> >>  Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
> >>  (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
> >>  http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
> >>
> >>  "We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
> >>  of jazz musicians.
> >>  ___
> >>  Finale mailing list
> >>  Finale@shsu.edu
> >>  http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
> 
> -- 
> John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
> Virginia Tech Department of Music
> College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
> Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
> Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
> (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
> http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
> 
> "We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
> of jazz musicians.


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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Dean M. Estabrook]

Well, in my usual pedestrian mannr,  I went with "English Horn," and  
even got the Staff Style tool to do my bidding,  after several tries  
of course.


Dean

On Jul 6, 2010, at 5:10 PM, John Howell wrote:


At 7:04 PM -0400 7/6/10, arabus...@austin.rr.com wrote:
"Cor anglais" is stuck up? I thought it was simply British, for  
people who know that the English horn is neither English nor a horn.


French, actually.  French for "English horn," which is apparently  
where the term came from.  Which, as you say, is neither English  
nor a horn.  Of course the French horn is not French, either!  The  
most accurate terms are "cor" or "corno" (horn), "cornetto" (small  
horn), and "cornettino" (little small horn).  Kind of like  
"violoncello" means something like "little big violin."


You expected maybe logic?!!!

John







Aaron J. Rabushka
who would most likely write "oboe/corno inglese"


 John Howell  wrote:

 At 9:10 PM -0700 7/5/10, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
 >While we're at it ... I'm writing an orchestral piece that uses  
both

 >Oboe and English Horn, played by the same person. How are those
 >parts labeled, and how is the transposition for the E.H.  
handled in

 >score and part(s), if you know what I mean?
 >
 >Dean

 I would simply write "Oboe/English Horn," or "Oboe 3/English Horn"
 (or substitute Cor Anglais if I were feeling stuck up!).  And  
I'm not

 sure I understand your second question.  In a concert pitch score
 nothing would change.  In a transposed score and in the part, the
 transposition would change.  Seems simple enough.  The only  
question

 would be where to put the key signature change, but I would put it
 early rather than late, where the change instruction appears, to
 avoid confusion.

 John


 --
 John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
 Virginia Tech Department of Music
 College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
 Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
 Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
 http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

 "We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's  
definition

 of jazz musicians.
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--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.
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I have opened my soul/To let in the warmth of sound/Now my saving grace
Adrian Estabrook, author

Dean M. Estabrook
http://sites.google.com/site/deanestabrook/

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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[John Howell]

At 7:04 PM -0400 7/6/10, arabus...@austin.rr.com wrote:
"Cor anglais" is stuck up? I thought it was simply British, for 
people who know that the English horn is neither English nor a horn.


French, actually.  French for "English horn," which is apparently 
where the term came from.  Which, as you say, is neither English nor 
a horn.  Of course the French horn is not French, either!  The most 
accurate terms are "cor" or "corno" (horn), "cornetto" (small horn), 
and "cornettino" (little small horn).  Kind of like "violoncello" 
means something like "little big violin."


You expected maybe logic?!!!

John







Aaron J. Rabushka
who would most likely write "oboe/corno inglese"


 John Howell  wrote:

 At 9:10 PM -0700 7/5/10, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
 >While we're at it ... I'm writing an orchestral piece that uses both
 >Oboe and English Horn, played by the same person. How are those
 >parts labeled, and how is the transposition for the E.H. handled in
 >score and part(s), if you know what I mean?
 >
 >Dean

 I would simply write "Oboe/English Horn," or "Oboe 3/English Horn"
 (or substitute Cor Anglais if I were feeling stuck up!).  And I'm not
 sure I understand your second question.  In a concert pitch score
 nothing would change.  In a transposed score and in the part, the
 transposition would change.  Seems simple enough.  The only question
 would be where to put the key signature change, but I would put it
 early rather than late, where the change instruction appears, to
 avoid confusion.

 John


 --
 John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
 Virginia Tech Department of Music
 College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
 Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
 Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
 http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

 "We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
 of jazz musicians.
 ___
 Finale mailing list
 Finale@shsu.edu
 http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale



--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[arabushka]

"Cor anglais" is stuck up? I thought it was simply British, for people who know 
that the English horn is neither English nor a horn.

Aaron J. Rabushka
who would most likely write "oboe/corno inglese"


 John Howell  wrote: 
> At 9:10 PM -0700 7/5/10, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
> >While we're at it ... I'm writing an orchestral piece that uses both 
> >Oboe and English Horn, played by the same person. How are those 
> >parts labeled, and how is the transposition for the E.H. handled in 
> >score and part(s), if you know what I mean?
> >
> >Dean
> 
> I would simply write "Oboe/English Horn," or "Oboe 3/English Horn" 
> (or substitute Cor Anglais if I were feeling stuck up!).  And I'm not 
> sure I understand your second question.  In a concert pitch score 
> nothing would change.  In a transposed score and in the part, the 
> transposition would change.  Seems simple enough.  The only question 
> would be where to put the key signature change, but I would put it 
> early rather than late, where the change instruction appears, to 
> avoid confusion.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> -- 
> John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
> Virginia Tech Department of Music
> College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
> Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
> Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
> (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
> http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
> 
> "We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
> of jazz musicians.
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Dean M. Estabrook]

Yeah, good idea ... I tend to work with a score in concert pitch, but  
switch to transposed when I print it ... but rarely do I work with  
the "C score" as we used to call it in my 12 tone days  if that  
makes sense to you ...


Dean

On Jul 6, 2010, at 11:24 AM, John Howell wrote:


At 9:10 PM -0700 7/5/10, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
While we're at it ... I'm writing an orchestral piece that uses  
both Oboe and English Horn, played by the same person. How are  
those parts labeled, and how is the transposition for the E.H.  
handled in score and part(s), if you know what I mean?


Dean


I would simply write "Oboe/English Horn," or "Oboe 3/English  
Horn" (or substitute Cor Anglais if I were feeling stuck up!).  And  
I'm not sure I understand your second question.  In a concert pitch  
score nothing would change.  In a transposed score and in the part,  
the transposition would change.  Seems simple enough.  The only  
question would be where to put the key signature change, but I  
would put it early rather than late, where the change instruction  
appears, to avoid confusion.


John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Dean M. Estabrook]

Thanks guys  this list is, and I don't use this appellation  
often, AWSOME!


Off to work 

Dean

On Jul 6, 2010, at 10:23 AM, Ryan wrote:


Dean,
Yes, Staff styles will let you change anything on that staff for  
the amount
of measures you select. Christopher Smith is right, Staff Styles is  
pretty
amazing. Make a copy of your file and just mess around with it for  
a bit.

You'll quickly learn what it can do.

On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Christopher Smith <
christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote:

Dean, you are SO going to love Staff Styles! Yes to everything.  
Read the

manual, learn it, love it, live it.

DON'T change key sigs, change the transposition with a staff style.

Christopher



On Tue Jul 6, at TuesdayJul 6 12:35 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:

 Ryan ... thanks for the info  I'm still confused about (BTW,  
I am
using key sigs) changing key sigs in the middle of the stream for  
one part
only in the score. Does Staff Style allow me to go back and forth  
between

the oboe and E.H.  at will, for a given number of measures, without
effecting the rest of the score?  Sorry I'm ignorant on this,  
I've just

never had to do it before ...

Dean

On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:48 PM, Ryan wrote:

 At the end of the Oboe passage, I would put "to English Horn."  
If you're
using key signatures, I would personally prefer to see the key  
change

right
there, as well as staff name change in the score. I do this with  
a Staff
Style. At the beginning of the English Horn passage, I would put  
"English

Horn." Same process for returning to Oboe.

If the piece is has multiple movements, it would be a good idea  
to label

the
instrument at its first entrance, even if there wasn't a change in
between
movements.

On the part, all the information that you put into the score  
should be
there, as well as probably an indication at the top of each left  
hand

page
after a page turn. It could save time in rehearsal because the  
player
wouldn't have to leaf backwards to find what instrument they're  
on if the

conductor starts rehearsing mid-movement.

If you're not using key signatures, the transposition still happens
normally. The change is just a little less-obvious, thus the  
need for

clearly labeling the entrances.


On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Dean M. Estabrook  

wrote:




On Jul 5, 2010, at 6:58 PM, John Howell wrote:

 At 4:14 PM -0700 7/5/10, Ryan wrote:



 What's the best way to label a woodwind part that doubles?


Piccolo & 3rd Flute
or
Piccolo/3rd Flute
or
Piccolo (also 3rd Flute)

Does the top one imply that two players are needed? Does the  
middle

one
imply that one of the instruments is optional? (i.e. If you  
don't have

a
piccolo, you can play it on flute).


Interesting.  I wouldn't have drawn the distincions you have,  
but I

think
you're right about them.  The second one looks to me like the  
most

common
format, and no, I wouldn't read it as saying that one  
instrument is

optional.  If that's actually the case, you should say so:
 Piccolo/optional
3rd Flute.


 Is there another way to label that would be better?



Not that I can think of at the moment.  Of course I would put  
3rd Flute

first in order unless the part is mostly piccolo.  (Kind of like
ingredients
on food labels!)

John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's  
definition

of jazz musicians.
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Dean M. Estabrook
http://sites.google.com/site/deanestabrook/

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 ___

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Dean M. Estabrook
http://sites.google.com/site/deanestabrook/

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http://sites.google.com/site/deanestabrook/

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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Dean M. Estabrook]

Good news for me  I shall investigate and apply ...

Thanks,

Dean

On Jul 6, 2010, at 9:51 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:

Dean, you are SO going to love Staff Styles! Yes to everything.  
Read the manual, learn it, love it, live it.


DON'T change key sigs, change the transposition with a staff style.

Christopher


On Tue Jul 6, at TuesdayJul 6 12:35 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:

Ryan ... thanks for the info  I'm still confused about (BTW, I  
am using key sigs) changing key sigs in the middle of the stream  
for one part only in the score. Does Staff Style allow me to go  
back and forth between the oboe and E.H.  at will, for a given  
number of measures, without effecting the rest of the score?   
Sorry I'm ignorant on this, I've just never had to do it before ...


Dean

On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:48 PM, Ryan wrote:

At the end of the Oboe passage, I would put "to English Horn." If  
you're
using key signatures, I would personally prefer to see the key  
change right
there, as well as staff name change in the score. I do this with  
a Staff
Style. At the beginning of the English Horn passage, I would put  
"English

Horn." Same process for returning to Oboe.

If the piece is has multiple movements, it would be a good idea  
to label the
instrument at its first entrance, even if there wasn't a change  
in between

movements.

On the part, all the information that you put into the score  
should be
there, as well as probably an indication at the top of each left  
hand page
after a page turn. It could save time in rehearsal because the  
player
wouldn't have to leaf backwards to find what instrument they're  
on if the

conductor starts rehearsing mid-movement.

If you're not using key signatures, the transposition still happens
normally. The change is just a little less-obvious, thus the need  
for

clearly labeling the entrances.


On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Dean M. Estabrook  
wrote:




On Jul 5, 2010, at 6:58 PM, John Howell wrote:

 At 4:14 PM -0700 7/5/10, Ryan wrote:



What's the best way to label a woodwind part that doubles?

Piccolo & 3rd Flute
or
Piccolo/3rd Flute
or
Piccolo (also 3rd Flute)

Does the top one imply that two players are needed? Does the  
middle one
imply that one of the instruments is optional? (i.e. If you  
don't have a

piccolo, you can play it on flute).



Interesting.  I wouldn't have drawn the distincions you have,  
but I think
you're right about them.  The second one looks to me like the  
most common
format, and no, I wouldn't read it as saying that one  
instrument is
optional.  If that's actually the case, you should say so:   
Piccolo/optional

3rd Flute.



Is there another way to label that would be better?



Not that I can think of at the moment.  Of course I would put  
3rd Flute
first in order unless the part is mostly piccolo.  (Kind of  
like ingredients

on food labels!)

John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's  
definition

of jazz musicians.
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Dean M. Estabrook
http://sites.google.com/site/deanestabrook/

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Dean M. Estabrook
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http://sites.google.com/site/deanestabrook/

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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[John Howell]

At 9:10 PM -0700 7/5/10, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
While we're at it ... I'm writing an orchestral piece that uses both 
Oboe and English Horn, played by the same person. How are those 
parts labeled, and how is the transposition for the E.H. handled in 
score and part(s), if you know what I mean?


Dean


I would simply write "Oboe/English Horn," or "Oboe 3/English Horn" 
(or substitute Cor Anglais if I were feeling stuck up!).  And I'm not 
sure I understand your second question.  In a concert pitch score 
nothing would change.  In a transposed score and in the part, the 
transposition would change.  Seems simple enough.  The only question 
would be where to put the key signature change, but I would put it 
early rather than late, where the change instruction appears, to 
avoid confusion.


John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Christopher Smith]

Dean, you are SO going to love Staff Styles! Yes to everything. Read  
the manual, learn it, love it, live it.


DON'T change key sigs, change the transposition with a staff style.

Christopher


On Tue Jul 6, at TuesdayJul 6 12:35 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:

Ryan ... thanks for the info  I'm still confused about (BTW, I  
am using key sigs) changing key sigs in the middle of the stream  
for one part only in the score. Does Staff Style allow me to go  
back and forth between the oboe and E.H.  at will, for a given  
number of measures, without effecting the rest of the score?  Sorry  
I'm ignorant on this, I've just never had to do it before ...


Dean

On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:48 PM, Ryan wrote:

At the end of the Oboe passage, I would put "to English Horn." If  
you're
using key signatures, I would personally prefer to see the key  
change right
there, as well as staff name change in the score. I do this with a  
Staff
Style. At the beginning of the English Horn passage, I would put  
"English

Horn." Same process for returning to Oboe.

If the piece is has multiple movements, it would be a good idea to  
label the
instrument at its first entrance, even if there wasn't a change in  
between

movements.

On the part, all the information that you put into the score  
should be
there, as well as probably an indication at the top of each left  
hand page

after a page turn. It could save time in rehearsal because the player
wouldn't have to leaf backwards to find what instrument they're on  
if the

conductor starts rehearsing mid-movement.

If you're not using key signatures, the transposition still happens
normally. The change is just a little less-obvious, thus the need for
clearly labeling the entrances.


On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Dean M. Estabrook  
wrote:




On Jul 5, 2010, at 6:58 PM, John Howell wrote:

 At 4:14 PM -0700 7/5/10, Ryan wrote:



What's the best way to label a woodwind part that doubles?

Piccolo & 3rd Flute
or
Piccolo/3rd Flute
or
Piccolo (also 3rd Flute)

Does the top one imply that two players are needed? Does the  
middle one
imply that one of the instruments is optional? (i.e. If you  
don't have a

piccolo, you can play it on flute).



Interesting.  I wouldn't have drawn the distincions you have,  
but I think
you're right about them.  The second one looks to me like the  
most common

format, and no, I wouldn't read it as saying that one instrument is
optional.  If that's actually the case, you should say so:   
Piccolo/optional

3rd Flute.



Is there another way to label that would be better?



Not that I can think of at the moment.  Of course I would put  
3rd Flute
first in order unless the part is mostly piccolo.  (Kind of like  
ingredients

on food labels!)

John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's  
definition

of jazz musicians.
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grace

Adrian Estabrook, author

Dean M. Estabrook
http://sites.google.com/site/deanestabrook/

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Dean M. Estabrook
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Ryan]

Dean,
Yes, Staff styles will let you change anything on that staff for the amount
of measures you select. Christopher Smith is right, Staff Styles is pretty
amazing. Make a copy of your file and just mess around with it for a bit.
You'll quickly learn what it can do.

On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Christopher Smith <
christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote:

> Dean, you are SO going to love Staff Styles! Yes to everything. Read the
> manual, learn it, love it, live it.
>
> DON'T change key sigs, change the transposition with a staff style.
>
> Christopher
>
>
>
> On Tue Jul 6, at TuesdayJul 6 12:35 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
>
>  Ryan ... thanks for the info  I'm still confused about (BTW, I am
>> using key sigs) changing key sigs in the middle of the stream for one part
>> only in the score. Does Staff Style allow me to go back and forth between
>> the oboe and E.H.  at will, for a given number of measures, without
>> effecting the rest of the score?  Sorry I'm ignorant on this, I've just
>> never had to do it before ...
>>
>> Dean
>>
>> On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:48 PM, Ryan wrote:
>>
>>  At the end of the Oboe passage, I would put "to English Horn." If you're
>>> using key signatures, I would personally prefer to see the key change
>>> right
>>> there, as well as staff name change in the score. I do this with a Staff
>>> Style. At the beginning of the English Horn passage, I would put "English
>>> Horn." Same process for returning to Oboe.
>>>
>>> If the piece is has multiple movements, it would be a good idea to label
>>> the
>>> instrument at its first entrance, even if there wasn't a change in
>>> between
>>> movements.
>>>
>>> On the part, all the information that you put into the score should be
>>> there, as well as probably an indication at the top of each left hand
>>> page
>>> after a page turn. It could save time in rehearsal because the player
>>> wouldn't have to leaf backwards to find what instrument they're on if the
>>> conductor starts rehearsing mid-movement.
>>>
>>> If you're not using key signatures, the transposition still happens
>>> normally. The change is just a little less-obvious, thus the need for
>>> clearly labeling the entrances.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Dean M. Estabrook >> >wrote:
>>>
>>>
 On Jul 5, 2010, at 6:58 PM, John Howell wrote:

  At 4:14 PM -0700 7/5/10, Ryan wrote:

>
>  What's the best way to label a woodwind part that doubles?
>>
>> Piccolo & 3rd Flute
>> or
>> Piccolo/3rd Flute
>> or
>> Piccolo (also 3rd Flute)
>>
>> Does the top one imply that two players are needed? Does the middle
>> one
>> imply that one of the instruments is optional? (i.e. If you don't have
>> a
>> piccolo, you can play it on flute).
>>
>>
> Interesting.  I wouldn't have drawn the distincions you have, but I
> think
> you're right about them.  The second one looks to me like the most
> common
> format, and no, I wouldn't read it as saying that one instrument is
> optional.  If that's actually the case, you should say so:
>  Piccolo/optional
> 3rd Flute.
>
>
>  Is there another way to label that would be better?
>>
>>
> Not that I can think of at the moment.  Of course I would put 3rd Flute
> first in order unless the part is mostly piccolo.  (Kind of like
> ingredients
> on food labels!)
>
> John
>
>
> --
> John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
> Virginia Tech Department of Music
> College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
> Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
> Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
> (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
> http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
>
> "We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
> of jazz musicians.
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>
>
 I have opened my soul/To let in the warmth of sound/Now my saving grace
 Adrian Estabrook, author

 Dean M. Estabrook
 http://sites.google.com/site/deanestabrook/

 ___
 Finale mailing list
 Finale@shsu.edu
 http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

  ___
>>> Finale mailing list
>>> Finale@shsu.edu
>>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>>>
>>
>> I have opened my soul/To let in the warmth of sound/Now my saving grace
>> Adrian Estabrook, author
>>
>> Dean M. Estabrook
>> http://sites.google.com/site/deanestabrook/
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Randolph Peters]

On 2010-07-06, at 2:22 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
> Because of the PDF issue, I now use a vertical separation line instead of a 
> slash. And for multi-wind parts, I usually label first the part name, and 
> then the instruments used (in the order that they are used), e.g.:
> 
> WIND 1
> Alto Flute|Flute|Soprano Sax
> 
> or, for your example...
> 
> FLUTE 3
> Piccolo|Flute

Great tip! I'm going to use this from now on as well as cd's (dershem) 
suggestion about listing all the mutes at the beginning.

-Randolph Peters
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Dean M. Estabrook]

Ryan ... thanks for the info  I'm still confused about (BTW, I am  
using key sigs) changing key sigs in the middle of the stream for one  
part only in the score. Does Staff Style allow me to go back and  
forth between the oboe and E.H.  at will, for a given number of  
measures, without effecting the rest of the score?  Sorry I'm  
ignorant on this, I've just never had to do it before ...


Dean

On Jul 5, 2010, at 9:48 PM, Ryan wrote:

At the end of the Oboe passage, I would put "to English Horn." If  
you're
using key signatures, I would personally prefer to see the key  
change right
there, as well as staff name change in the score. I do this with a  
Staff
Style. At the beginning of the English Horn passage, I would put  
"English

Horn." Same process for returning to Oboe.

If the piece is has multiple movements, it would be a good idea to  
label the
instrument at its first entrance, even if there wasn't a change in  
between

movements.

On the part, all the information that you put into the score should be
there, as well as probably an indication at the top of each left  
hand page

after a page turn. It could save time in rehearsal because the player
wouldn't have to leaf backwards to find what instrument they're on  
if the

conductor starts rehearsing mid-movement.

If you're not using key signatures, the transposition still happens
normally. The change is just a little less-obvious, thus the need for
clearly labeling the entrances.


On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Dean M. Estabrook  
wrote:




On Jul 5, 2010, at 6:58 PM, John Howell wrote:

 At 4:14 PM -0700 7/5/10, Ryan wrote:



What's the best way to label a woodwind part that doubles?

Piccolo & 3rd Flute
or
Piccolo/3rd Flute
or
Piccolo (also 3rd Flute)

Does the top one imply that two players are needed? Does the  
middle one
imply that one of the instruments is optional? (i.e. If you  
don't have a

piccolo, you can play it on flute).



Interesting.  I wouldn't have drawn the distincions you have, but  
I think
you're right about them.  The second one looks to me like the  
most common

format, and no, I wouldn't read it as saying that one instrument is
optional.  If that's actually the case, you should say so:   
Piccolo/optional

3rd Flute.



Is there another way to label that would be better?



Not that I can think of at the moment.  Of course I would put 3rd  
Flute
first in order unless the part is mostly piccolo.  (Kind of like  
ingredients

on food labels!)

John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's  
definition

of jazz musicians.
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Adrian Estabrook, author

Dean M. Estabrook
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Darcy James Argue]

Because of the PDF issue, I now use a vertical separation line instead of a 
slash. And for multi-wind parts, I usually label first the part name, and then 
the instruments used (in the order that they are used), e.g.:

WIND 1
Alto Flute|Flute|Soprano Sax

or, for your example...

FLUTE 3
Piccolo|Flute

Cheers,

- DJA
-
WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org

On 6 Jul 2010, at 3:09 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:

> 
> On Mon Jul 5, at MondayJul 5 7:14 PM, Ryan wrote:
> 
>> What's the best way to label a woodwind part that doubles?
>> 
>> Piccolo & 3rd Flute
>> or
>> Piccolo/3rd Flute
>> or
>> Piccolo (also 3rd Flute)
>> 
>> Does the top one imply that two players are needed? Does the middle one
>> imply that one of the instruments is optional? (i.e. If you don't have a
>> piccolo, you can play it on flute).
>> 
>> Is there another way to label that would be better?
> 
> I used to like the second the best, since it indicates clearly that it is one 
> musician, two instruments. Until, that is, that Finale would break creating 
> PDFs or EPS files with a slash in the name. It took me a while to track down 
> what the problem was, and I still start to seethe when I think of how much 
> time I wasted when it was even Finale who generated the names automatically 
> yet tech support dodged responsibility. Why would Finale create a part name 
> automatically that was illegal?
> 
> I suppose that the 3rd is fine, too, though I wouldn't bother to include the 
> word "also".
> 
> Christopher
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Ryan]

At the end of the Oboe passage, I would put "to English Horn." If you're
using key signatures, I would personally prefer to see the key change right
there, as well as staff name change in the score. I do this with a Staff
Style. At the beginning of the English Horn passage, I would put "English
Horn." Same process for returning to Oboe.

If the piece is has multiple movements, it would be a good idea to label the
instrument at its first entrance, even if there wasn't a change in between
movements.

On the part, all the information that you put into the score should be
there, as well as probably an indication at the top of each left hand page
after a page turn. It could save time in rehearsal because the player
wouldn't have to leaf backwards to find what instrument they're on if the
conductor starts rehearsing mid-movement.

If you're not using key signatures, the transposition still happens
normally. The change is just a little less-obvious, thus the need for
clearly labeling the entrances.


On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:

>
> On Jul 5, 2010, at 6:58 PM, John Howell wrote:
>
>  At 4:14 PM -0700 7/5/10, Ryan wrote:
>>
>>> What's the best way to label a woodwind part that doubles?
>>>
>>> Piccolo & 3rd Flute
>>> or
>>> Piccolo/3rd Flute
>>> or
>>> Piccolo (also 3rd Flute)
>>>
>>> Does the top one imply that two players are needed? Does the middle one
>>> imply that one of the instruments is optional? (i.e. If you don't have a
>>> piccolo, you can play it on flute).
>>>
>>
>> Interesting.  I wouldn't have drawn the distincions you have, but I think
>> you're right about them.  The second one looks to me like the most common
>> format, and no, I wouldn't read it as saying that one instrument is
>> optional.  If that's actually the case, you should say so:  Piccolo/optional
>> 3rd Flute.
>>
>>
>>> Is there another way to label that would be better?
>>>
>>
>> Not that I can think of at the moment.  Of course I would put 3rd Flute
>> first in order unless the part is mostly piccolo.  (Kind of like ingredients
>> on food labels!)
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> --
>> John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
>> Virginia Tech Department of Music
>> College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
>> Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
>> Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
>> (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
>> http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
>>
>> "We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
>> of jazz musicians.
>> ___
>> Finale mailing list
>> Finale@shsu.edu
>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>>
>
> I have opened my soul/To let in the warmth of sound/Now my saving grace
> Adrian Estabrook, author
>
> Dean M. Estabrook
> http://sites.google.com/site/deanestabrook/
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Dean M. Estabrook]

On Jul 5, 2010, at 6:58 PM, John Howell wrote:


At 4:14 PM -0700 7/5/10, Ryan wrote:

What's the best way to label a woodwind part that doubles?

Piccolo & 3rd Flute
or
Piccolo/3rd Flute
or
Piccolo (also 3rd Flute)

Does the top one imply that two players are needed? Does the  
middle one
imply that one of the instruments is optional? (i.e. If you don't  
have a

piccolo, you can play it on flute).


Interesting.  I wouldn't have drawn the distincions you have, but I  
think you're right about them.  The second one looks to me like the  
most common format, and no, I wouldn't read it as saying that one  
instrument is optional.  If that's actually the case, you should  
say so:  Piccolo/optional 3rd Flute.




Is there another way to label that would be better?


Not that I can think of at the moment.  Of course I would put 3rd  
Flute first in order unless the part is mostly piccolo.  (Kind of  
like ingredients on food labels!)


John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.
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Adrian Estabrook, author

Dean M. Estabrook
http://sites.google.com/site/deanestabrook/

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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Dean M. Estabrook]

While we're at it ... I'm writing an orchestral piece that uses both  
Oboe and English Horn, played by the same person. How are those parts  
labeled, and how is the transposition for the E.H. handled in score  
and part(s), if you know what I mean?


Dean

On Jul 5, 2010, at 6:58 PM, John Howell wrote:


At 4:14 PM -0700 7/5/10, Ryan wrote:

What's the best way to label a woodwind part that doubles?

Piccolo & 3rd Flute
or
Piccolo/3rd Flute
or
Piccolo (also 3rd Flute)

Does the top one imply that two players are needed? Does the  
middle one
imply that one of the instruments is optional? (i.e. If you don't  
have a

piccolo, you can play it on flute).


Interesting.  I wouldn't have drawn the distincions you have, but I  
think you're right about them.  The second one looks to me like the  
most common format, and no, I wouldn't read it as saying that one  
instrument is optional.  If that's actually the case, you should  
say so:  Piccolo/optional 3rd Flute.




Is there another way to label that would be better?


Not that I can think of at the moment.  Of course I would put 3rd  
Flute first in order unless the part is mostly piccolo.  (Kind of  
like ingredients on food labels!)


John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.
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Adrian Estabrook, author

Dean M. Estabrook
http://sites.google.com/site/deanestabrook/

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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[Christopher Smith]

On Mon Jul 5, at MondayJul 5 7:14 PM, Ryan wrote:


What's the best way to label a woodwind part that doubles?

Piccolo & 3rd Flute
or
Piccolo/3rd Flute
or
Piccolo (also 3rd Flute)

Does the top one imply that two players are needed? Does the middle  
one
imply that one of the instruments is optional? (i.e. If you don't  
have a

piccolo, you can play it on flute).

Is there another way to label that would be better?


I used to like the second the best, since it indicates clearly that  
it is one musician, two instruments. Until, that is, that Finale  
would break creating PDFs or EPS files with a slash in the name. It  
took me a while to track down what the problem was, and I still start  
to seethe when I think of how much time I wasted when it was even  
Finale who generated the names automatically yet tech support dodged  
responsibility. Why would Finale create a part name automatically  
that was illegal?


I suppose that the 3rd is fine, too, though I wouldn't bother to  
include the word "also".


Christopher



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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[John Howell]

At 4:14 PM -0700 7/5/10, Ryan wrote:

What's the best way to label a woodwind part that doubles?

Piccolo & 3rd Flute
or
Piccolo/3rd Flute
or
Piccolo (also 3rd Flute)

Does the top one imply that two players are needed? Does the middle one
imply that one of the instruments is optional? (i.e. If you don't have a
piccolo, you can play it on flute).


Interesting.  I wouldn't have drawn the distincions you have, but I 
think you're right about them.  The second one looks to me like the 
most common format, and no, I wouldn't read it as saying that one 
instrument is optional.  If that's actually the case, you should say 
so:  Piccolo/optional 3rd Flute.




Is there another way to label that would be better?


Not that I can think of at the moment.  Of course I would put 3rd 
Flute first in order unless the part is mostly piccolo.  (Kind of 
like ingredients on food labels!)


John


--
John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music
Virginia Tech Department of Music
College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411  Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:john.how...@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html

"We never play anything the same way once."  Shelly Manne's definition
of jazz musicians.
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Re: [Finale] Doubling part label

[dershem]

On 7/5/2010 4:14 PM, Ryan wrote:

What's the best way to label a woodwind part that doubles?

Piccolo&  3rd Flute
or
Piccolo/3rd Flute
or
Piccolo (also 3rd Flute)

Does the top one imply that two players are needed? Does the middle one
imply that one of the instruments is optional? (i.e. If you don't have a
piccolo, you can play it on flute).

Is there another way to label that would be better?


When I do parts any more, I try to be explicit about doubles and the 
rest, and my players generally appreciate it.


Piccolo
(flute 3)

Would be normal for my parts, as would

Trumpet 3
(cup, plunger)

It just makes it easier when setting up to know what to be ready for.

But there is no set pattern I know of yet, so do what works best for you 
and your players.


cd
--
http://members.cox.net/dershem/index.html
http://dershem.livejournal.com/
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