[flexcoders] Re: What's up Adobe?
If this appears again it;s not intended double post. Hi all, hi Jochem It was very nice of you detailing in your answer some points of my original post. Only, please allow me some rectifications... You write: 1. It might be a good idea to take on less projects, but for a higher margin. Not having time to study is not a good place to be long-term. To me study is the deeper phase of reading... 2. A better distinction between the free and commercial offerings. All commercial IDE offerings are branded Flash something, all the free open source stuff is branded Flex something. In case you didn't notice, FlexBuilder3 is not a FOSS someting. It has a nice price tag (Adobe invoiced this close to 700 in our case). BTW I wonder what the upgrade price path will be from Flex Builder3 to Fash Builder4 (?) if any... 3. Why would you? You wrote in another message you work with Hibernate and BlazeDS. In those cases you identify yourself with the application / framework you work with. Why would you in the case of Flash/Flex identify yourself with the IDE? You are not calling yourself Eclipse or JBuilder developer just because that is the IDE you use for your Java development either. This is true. Then brand name Flash is recognised worldwide as (Flash) Player a free installable (like the free Acrobat Reader - everybody has one... installed). The everyday man/woman understands this as a fact, while few hardly ever heard of Flash MediaServer. 4. BlazeDS is the free, unsupported, open-source offering for fast communication with Java backends. It will continue to be so for the foreseeable future. Adobe will continue to develop it. Adobe will not support it nor market it because it is not a source of revenue. LCDS will be supported and marketed because it is a source of revenue. I remember Flex DataServices. Then after Macromedia acquisition by Adobe in 2005, this was put under the LCES umbrella of the commercial range of products. LiveCycle products of course carry price tags of tens of thousands of dollars... If I recall some recent posts correctly, the new version 3 of LCDS will have a pric tag of $3 per CPU.. By this I am not implying LCDSES isn't a for more complete/advanced product already, than BlazeDFS. I only refer to discussions about the price policy being fair on this product.. It has been a long way since John Warnock and Chuck Geschke co-founded Adobe in 1982 (and Thomas Knoll wrote Photoshop). And this has been a most marvelous/succesfull way. I wish this way will keep true in the future. Thanks all George --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, GeorgeB grg_b...@... wrote: Hi all, Well said. Three cheers Paul! Then Mike, your comment about right brained designers and left brained developers is most descriptive, though I am not sure about exactness, being an ignorant on the subject.LOL BTW folks this is not a crusade I started. It is just offending my logic, what marketeers do most of the time.. George --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Paul Andrews paul@ wrote: Mike wrote: It's too late, the damage is done, but I agree also FWIW. An Adobe VP told me about Flex being the open source branding, and Flash being the commercial product branding. There is no way that customers will figure that out. They have enough trouble understanding that developers are left-brained and designers are right-brained. One should not target a single brand at two classes of individuals who have different educations, different values, different world views, drive different cars and listen to different music. If you believe you know of a top-notch designer who is also a top-notch developer, your standards are too low. One cannot excel at both career paths - humans are too finite. Yes, Macromedia were smart. They established Flex as a high-end serious development system that could compete with other serious development systems and distanced it from flash eye-candy. Adobe have now managed to shift the perception of Flex from top-end to something that's used for eye-candy frivolity with the association with flash. We all know that's not true, but the larger companies looking at serious development wont make the distinction between Flex for serious work and flash for animation. I suspect it'll end up as a case study of not what to do in branding lectures. Paul Mike ... who tries to excel as a developer and has great respect for excellent designers âYes, I can see your point. I think the two of us are the only people who think that the Flex brand is weakened by the Flash moniker.â No, there are more of us... We just arenât as vocal!
Re: [flexcoders] Re: What's up Adobe?
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 11:50 AM, GeorgeB wrote: 2. A better distinction between the free and commercial offerings. All commercial IDE offerings are branded Flash something, all the free open source stuff is branded Flex something. In case you didn't notice, FlexBuilder3 is not a FOSS someting. The rebranding will only be complete when Flash Builder 4 and Flash Catalyst are released. 4. BlazeDS is the free, unsupported, open-source offering for fast communication with Java backends. It will continue to be so for the foreseeable future. Adobe will continue to develop it. Adobe will not support it nor market it because it is not a source of revenue. LCDS will be supported and marketed because it is a source of revenue. I remember Flex DataServices. Then after Macromedia acquisition by Adobe in 2005, this was put under the LCES umbrella of the commercial range of products. LiveCycle products of course carry price tags of tens of thousands of dollars... If I recall some recent posts correctly, the new version 3 of LCDS will have a pric tag of $3 per CPU.. Yes, it is almost like it was back in the days of Flex 1.0 which was $25K per CPU (initially $50K). Only then Flex was a runtime product that you needed to have on your server just to be able to compile Flex, while you now need LCDS only when you want to do very high end data communication and you can do Flex with less advanced data communication for free, Jochem -- Jochem van Dieten http://jochem.vandieten.net/
[flexcoders] Re: What's up Adobe?
Hi all. hi Tom, hi Nick, hi Wally I have to thank you for your understanding! The common denominator of all answers on why the new version of Flex Builder 3 should be renamed to Flash Builder 4 is WTF No big deal. Or better, as Tom put it: Just marketing bollocks!! LOL Then I can call myself anything I like, as long as I keep exercising succesfully my discipline writting code in a framework used to be called Flex Builder (plug-in IDE to Eclipse) and now called Flash Builder IDE. What's bugging me is that all my current work done for the last 2 years, has to be referencing as been done in a non-existing (now obsolete?) framework, that as time goes will have its trade name placed next to T-Rex. As I understand it, this marketing decision is devaluating my investment in a development platform. (Not my first time unfortunatelly) Although not a stickler, I believe marketeers shouldn't be creating a mess out of logic. Like presenting us a product named Flash Builder4 with no previous Flash Builder3. If they think Flash Builder IS the name, why don't they call this new product just Flash Builder v1? Or, are they afraid this would confuse the market? BTW should this Flexcoders group be renamed to Flashcoders? Or keep it going as is? (Resembling groups of practicioners in now extinct obscure arts, black magic etc? if you excuse me the pun..) Thanks all for the very thoughtful replies George --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Wally Kolcz wko...@... wrote: 1.) Keeping all their items more focused on the 'Flash Platform'. 2.) Call yourself a 'Flash Developer specializing in the Flex Framework'. Flex is not a language, its a Framework. It runs your application on a 2 frame time line. Frame 1 is the application loader, Frame 2 is your application. MXML gets compiled into ActionScript. All tags are easy representations of true AS classes. It is created for speed. Kinda like how ColdFusion is compiled into Java. You can create full working Flex apps without any MXML. I guess if you are worried about being confused with an animator call yourself a 'ActionScript Developer specializing in the Flex Framework' 5.) Doubt it too. They seem just to be aligning all the products related to Flash with Flash (Flash Builder, Flash Professional, Flash Catalyst) 6.) Blaze will probably remain around as a lesser version of LCDS. You lose some really cool features, but don't pay the monster price tag. I think Adobe knows that some of the success of Flash/Flex is that streaming data interaction and to only offer a pay version (LCDS) would stunt the growth of the community. Not all independant developer, web hosts, or small-mid companies can afford the full LCDS price tag. On 2/2/2010 4:42 AM, GeorgeB wrote: Hi all, I am a fully occupied Flex v3 developer, and don't have spare time to switch to Flex v4 before the projects I work on are over and done. While on the side subject that Gordon Smith (post 152124) raised, may I ask for reasonable answers? (since what I read worry me a lot about the future of my projects support from Adobe): 1. What was the meaning of Adobe changing the name from Flex Builder (v3) to Flash Builder, while keeping the upgrade path from v3 to v4? 2. I used to call myself a Flex developer, i.e MXML plus AS3 programmer. Should I have to call myself a Flash developer from now on? 3. I understand there were Flash developers around since the very begining. They have expertise among other things in timeline effects and sequential animation programming using tools like Creative Suite (Photoshop etc) way out of my discipline of database RIAs. Do I have to describe myself as a creative animator now? 4. If this is v4 of something, shouldn't that be an update of it's previous version 3? (In this case does Flex = Flash?) 5. Is Adobe running out of trade names? (or running out of what?) 6. Also what's the future of BlazeDS after recent marketing developments on LCESDS (or is it LCDSES?)? BTW I used to think of Adobe as a technology company. Am I mistaken? Thanks all George
Re: [flexcoders] Re: What's up Adobe?
GeorgeB wrote: Hi all. hi Tom, hi Nick, hi Wally I have to thank you for your understanding! The common denominator of all answers on why the new version of Flex Builder 3 should be renamed to Flash Builder 4 is WTF No big deal. Or better, as Tom put it: Just marketing bollocks!! LOL It may just be a name, but as your post shows people are confused by these changes and it is worse for people who don't understand what Flex is. A ton of people still associate flash with childish eye candy. Then I can call myself anything I like, as long as I keep exercising succesfully my discipline writting code in a framework used to be called Flex Builder (plug-in IDE to Eclipse) and now called Flash Builder IDE. What's bugging me is that all my current work done for the last 2 years, has to be referencing as been done in a non-existing (now obsolete?) framework, that as time goes will have its trade name placed next to T-Rex. As I understand it, this marketing decision is devaluating my investment in a development platform. (Not my first time unfortunatelly) Nobody has said the Flex framework is going anywhere. Although not a stickler, I believe marketeers shouldn't be creating a mess out of logic. Like presenting us a product named Flash Builder4 with no previous Flash Builder3. If they think Flash Builder IS the name, why don't they call this new product just Flash Builder v1? Or, are they afraid this would confuse the market? Adobe is getting into a mess with product names. BTW should this Flexcoders group be renamed to Flashcoders? Or keep it going as is? (Resembling groups of practicioners in now extinct obscure arts, black magic etc? if you excuse me the pun..) It's still coding using MXML and the Flex class framework, so I don't see that the name should change. I didn't see that the tool name should have changed either - for the same reason. Paul Thanks all for the very thoughtful replies George --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Wally Kolcz wko...@... wrote: 1.) Keeping all their items more focused on the 'Flash Platform'. 2.) Call yourself a 'Flash Developer specializing in the Flex Framework'. Flex is not a language, its a Framework. It runs your application on a 2 frame time line. Frame 1 is the application loader, Frame 2 is your application. MXML gets compiled into ActionScript. All tags are easy representations of true AS classes. It is created for speed. Kinda like how ColdFusion is compiled into Java. You can create full working Flex apps without any MXML. I guess if you are worried about being confused with an animator call yourself a 'ActionScript Developer specializing in the Flex Framework' 5.) Doubt it too. They seem just to be aligning all the products related to Flash with Flash (Flash Builder, Flash Professional, Flash Catalyst) 6.) Blaze will probably remain around as a lesser version of LCDS. You lose some really cool features, but don't pay the monster price tag. I think Adobe knows that some of the success of Flash/Flex is that streaming data interaction and to only offer a pay version (LCDS) would stunt the growth of the community. Not all independant developer, web hosts, or small-mid companies can afford the full LCDS price tag. On 2/2/2010 4:42 AM, GeorgeB wrote: Hi all, I am a fully occupied Flex v3 developer, and don't have spare time to switch to Flex v4 before the projects I work on are over and done. While on the side subject that Gordon Smith (post 152124) raised, may I ask for reasonable answers? (since what I read worry me a lot about the future of my projects support from Adobe): 1. What was the meaning of Adobe changing the name from Flex Builder (v3) to Flash Builder, while keeping the upgrade path from v3 to v4? 2. I used to call myself a Flex developer, i.e MXML plus AS3 programmer. Should I have to call myself a Flash developer from now on? 3. I understand there were Flash developers around since the very begining. They have expertise among other things in timeline effects and sequential animation programming using tools like Creative Suite (Photoshop etc) way out of my discipline of database RIAs. Do I have to describe myself as a creative animator now? 4. If this is v4 of something, shouldn't that be an update of it's previous version 3? (In this case does Flex = Flash?) 5. Is Adobe running out of trade names? (or running out of what?) 6. Also what's the future of BlazeDS after recent marketing developments on LCESDS (or is it LCDSES?)? BTW I used to think of Adobe as a technology company. Am I mistaken? Thanks all George
[flexcoders] Re: What's up Adobe?
I think the new name makes perfect sense. The current FlexBuilder doesn't only build flex. It builds flash as well. When you think of it, it is truly a Flash Builder. In fact, before they decided to change them name, I wondered why they were associating the name with Flex in the first place. When I started, it was not obvious I could use it to build a simple flash animations without the flex framework, which I actually needed to do for a few projects. I think of it as a programmers tool for making flash apps as opposed to an artist's tool for making pretty animations.
[flexcoders] Re: What's up Adobe?
Hi Mark, Just a short answer (from Wiki) to your question:: In fact, before they decided to change them name, I wondered why they were associating the name with Flex in the first place. Certain things in the following description need be corrected of course, like the last entry in Release History.. but anyway. Flex was there right from the beggining since Macromedia introduced it. Thanks George The initial release in March 2004 by Macromedia included a software development kit, an IDE, and a J2EE integration application known as Flex Data Services. Since Adobe acquired Macromedia in 2005, subsequent releases of Flex no longer require a license for Flex Data Services, which has become a separate product rebranded as LiveCycle Data Services. Release history Flex 1.0 March 2004 Flex 1.5 October 2004 Flex 2.0 (Alpha) October 2005 Flex 2.0 Beta 1 February 2006 Flex 2.0 Beta 2 March 2006 Flex 2.0 Beta 3 May 2006 Flex 2.0 Final- June 28, 2006 Flex 2.0.1 January 5, 2007 Flex 3.0 Beta 1 June 11, 2007 Flex 3.0 Beta 2 October 1, 2007 Flex 3.0 Beta 3 December 12, 2007 Flex 3.0 February 25, 2008 Flex 3.1 August 15, 2008 Flex 3.2 November 17, 2008 Flex 3.3 March 4, 2009 Flex 3.4 - August 18, 2009 Flex 3.5 - December 18, 2009 [1] Flex 4 - 2010 --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Mark A. DeMichele d...@... wrote: I think the new name makes perfect sense. The current FlexBuilder doesn't only build flex. It builds flash as well. When you think of it, it is truly a Flash Builder. In fact, before they decided to change them name, I wondered why they were associating the name with Flex in the first place. When I started, it was not obvious I could use it to build a simple flash animations without the flex framework, which I actually needed to do for a few projects. I think of it as a programmers tool for making flash apps as opposed to an artist's tool for making pretty animations.
[flexcoders] Re: What's up Adobe?
Hi Paul, Thanks for replying. I almost agree with your saying. Only let me clear one-two details: To my comment : What's bugging me is that all my current work done for the last 2 years, has to be referencing as been done in a non-existing (now obsolete?) framework, that as time goes will have its trade name placed next to T-Rex. As I understand it, this marketing decision is devaluating my investment in a development platform. (Not my first time unfortunatelly) You reply: Nobody has said the Flex framework is going anywhere. This is true. The framework stays (for the time..) but the brand name has gone! Flex is no longer. Then what I 've been developing for 2 years is Flex3 RIA with Tomcat plus BlazeDS, plus Hibernate persistance backend. The heavy business logic has no stunning images or any animations, depending on the end target group of users. Overviewing the end result, I am only considering scale up options, like LCDS, different database etc. On the other hand Flex was the choice, as the other way (building with AJAX or similar approaches) were out-ruled from the beggining. Flex was the strong point and only real option. (If swf is being played by Flash Player, this was not the reason I 've chosen Flex, believe me) Now Flex is gone and though I still have a complete application on Flex3 by the end of 2009 (I was already not thinking about transcripting to Flex4 - excuse me to Flash4) I certainly don't know what to state as key advantages of the application. Like, it is based on an extinct brand name product? You can't advertise such a advantage, can you? Thanks George --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Paul Andrews p...@... wrote: GeorgeB wrote: Hi all. hi Tom, hi Nick, hi Wally I have to thank you for your understanding! The common denominator of all answers on why the new version of Flex Builder 3 should be renamed to Flash Builder 4 is WTF No big deal. Or better, as Tom put it: Just marketing bollocks!! LOL It may just be a name, but as your post shows people are confused by these changes and it is worse for people who don't understand what Flex is. A ton of people still associate flash with childish eye candy. Then I can call myself anything I like, as long as I keep exercising succesfully my discipline writting code in a framework used to be called Flex Builder (plug-in IDE to Eclipse) and now called Flash Builder IDE. What's bugging me is that all my current work done for the last 2 years, has to be referencing as been done in a non-existing (now obsolete?) framework, that as time goes will have its trade name placed next to T-Rex. As I understand it, this marketing decision is devaluating my investment in a development platform. (Not my first time unfortunatelly) Nobody has said the Flex framework is going anywhere. Although not a stickler, I believe marketeers shouldn't be creating a mess out of logic. Like presenting us a product named Flash Builder4 with no previous Flash Builder3. If they think Flash Builder IS the name, why don't they call this new product just Flash Builder v1? Or, are they afraid this would confuse the market? Adobe is getting into a mess with product names. BTW should this Flexcoders group be renamed to Flashcoders? Or keep it going as is? (Resembling groups of practicioners in now extinct obscure arts, black magic etc? if you excuse me the pun..) It's still coding using MXML and the Flex class framework, so I don't see that the name should change. I didn't see that the tool name should have changed either - for the same reason. Paul Thanks all for the very thoughtful replies George --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Wally Kolcz wkolcz@ wrote: 1.) Keeping all their items more focused on the 'Flash Platform'. 2.) Call yourself a 'Flash Developer specializing in the Flex Framework'. Flex is not a language, its a Framework. It runs your application on a 2 frame time line. Frame 1 is the application loader, Frame 2 is your application. MXML gets compiled into ActionScript. All tags are easy representations of true AS classes. It is created for speed. Kinda like how ColdFusion is compiled into Java. You can create full working Flex apps without any MXML. I guess if you are worried about being confused with an animator call yourself a 'ActionScript Developer specializing in the Flex Framework' 5.) Doubt it too. They seem just to be aligning all the products related to Flash with Flash (Flash Builder, Flash Professional, Flash Catalyst) 6.) Blaze will probably remain around as a lesser version of LCDS. You lose some really cool features, but don't pay the monster price tag. I think Adobe knows that some of the success of Flash/Flex is that streaming data interaction and to only offer a pay version (LCDS) would stunt the growth of the community. Not all independant developer, web hosts, or
Re: [flexcoders] Re: What's up Adobe?
GeorgeB wrote: Hi Paul, Thanks for replying. I almost agree with your saying. Only let me clear one-two details: To my comment : What's bugging me is that all my current work done for the last 2 years, has to be referencing as been done in a non-existing (now obsolete?) framework, that as time goes will have its trade name placed next to T-Rex. As I understand it, this marketing decision is devaluating my investment in a development platform. (Not my first time unfortunatelly) You reply: Nobody has said the Flex framework is going anywhere. This is true. The framework stays (for the time..) but the brand name has gone! Flex is no longer. Then what I 've been developing for 2 years is Flex3 RIA with Tomcat plus BlazeDS, plus Hibernate persistance backend. The heavy business logic has no stunning images or any animations, depending on the end target group of users. Overviewing the end result, I am only considering scale up options, like LCDS, different database etc. On the other hand Flex was the choice, as the other way (building with AJAX or similar approaches) were out-ruled from the beggining. Flex was the strong point and only real option. (If swf is being played by Flash Player, this was not the reason I 've chosen Flex, believe me) Now Flex is gone and though I still have a complete application on Flex3 by the end of 2009 (I was already not thinking about transcripting to Flex4 - excuse me to Flash4) I certainly don't know what to state as key advantages of the application. Like, it is based on an extinct brand name product? You can't advertise such a advantage, can you? Yes, I can see your point. I think the two of us are the only people who think that the Flex brand is weakened by the Flash moniker. Thanks George --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Paul Andrews p...@... wrote: GeorgeB wrote: Hi all. hi Tom, hi Nick, hi Wally I have to thank you for your understanding! The common denominator of all answers on why the new version of Flex Builder 3 should be renamed to Flash Builder 4 is WTF No big deal. Or better, as Tom put it: Just marketing bollocks!! LOL It may just be a name, but as your post shows people are confused by these changes and it is worse for people who don't understand what Flex is. A ton of people still associate flash with childish eye candy. Then I can call myself anything I like, as long as I keep exercising succesfully my discipline writting code in a framework used to be called Flex Builder (plug-in IDE to Eclipse) and now called Flash Builder IDE. What's bugging me is that all my current work done for the last 2 years, has to be referencing as been done in a non-existing (now obsolete?) framework, that as time goes will have its trade name placed next to T-Rex. As I understand it, this marketing decision is devaluating my investment in a development platform. (Not my first time unfortunatelly) Nobody has said the Flex framework is going anywhere. Although not a stickler, I believe marketeers shouldn't be creating a mess out of logic. Like presenting us a product named Flash Builder4 with no previous Flash Builder3. If they think Flash Builder IS the name, why don't they call this new product just Flash Builder v1? Or, are they afraid this would confuse the market? Adobe is getting into a mess with product names. BTW should this Flexcoders group be renamed to Flashcoders? Or keep it going as is? (Resembling groups of practicioners in now extinct obscure arts, black magic etc? if you excuse me the pun..) It's still coding using MXML and the Flex class framework, so I don't see that the name should change. I didn't see that the tool name should have changed either - for the same reason. Paul Thanks all for the very thoughtful replies George --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Wally Kolcz wkolcz@ wrote: 1.) Keeping all their items more focused on the 'Flash Platform'. 2.) Call yourself a 'Flash Developer specializing in the Flex Framework'. Flex is not a language, its a Framework. It runs your application on a 2 frame time line. Frame 1 is the application loader, Frame 2 is your application. MXML gets compiled into ActionScript. All tags are easy representations of true AS classes. It is created for speed. Kinda like how ColdFusion is compiled into Java. You can create full working Flex apps without any MXML. I guess if you are worried about being confused with an animator call yourself a 'ActionScript Developer specializing in the Flex Framework' 5.) Doubt it too. They seem just to be aligning all the products related to Flash with Flash (Flash Builder, Flash Professional, Flash Catalyst) 6.) Blaze will probably remain around as a lesser version of LCDS. You lose some really cool features, but don't pay the monster price tag. I think
RE: [flexcoders] Re: What's up Adobe?
Yes, I can see your point. I think the two of us are the only people who think that the Flex brand is weakened by the Flash moniker. No, there are more of us... We just aren't as vocal! Gk.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: What's up Adobe?
I support you guys! On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Gregor Kiddie gregor.kid...@channeladvisor.com wrote: “Yes, I can see your point. I think the two of us are the only people who think that the Flex brand is weakened by the Flash moniker.” No, there are more of us... We just aren’t as vocal! Gk.
[flexcoders] Re: What's up Adobe?
It's too late, the damage is done, but I agree also FWIW. An Adobe VP told me about Flex being the open source branding, and Flash being the commercial product branding. There is no way that customers will figure that out. They have enough trouble understanding that developers are left-brained and designers are right-brained. One should not target a single brand at two classes of individuals who have different educations, different values, different world views, drive different cars and listen to different music. If you believe you know of a top-notch designer who is also a top-notch developer, your standards are too low. One cannot excel at both career paths - humans are too finite. Mike ... who tries to excel as a developer and has great respect for excellent designers âYes, I can see your point. I think the two of us are the only people who think that the Flex brand is weakened by the Flash moniker.â No, there are more of us... We just arenât as vocal!
Re: [flexcoders] Re: What's up Adobe?
Mike wrote: It's too late, the damage is done, but I agree also FWIW. An Adobe VP told me about Flex being the open source branding, and Flash being the commercial product branding. There is no way that customers will figure that out. They have enough trouble understanding that developers are left-brained and designers are right-brained. One should not target a single brand at two classes of individuals who have different educations, different values, different world views, drive different cars and listen to different music. If you believe you know of a top-notch designer who is also a top-notch developer, your standards are too low. One cannot excel at both career paths - humans are too finite. Yes, Macromedia were smart. They established Flex as a high-end serious development system that could compete with other serious development systems and distanced it from flash eye-candy. Adobe have now managed to shift the perception of Flex from top-end to something that's used for eye-candy frivolity with the association with flash. We all know that's not true, but the larger companies looking at serious development wont make the distinction between Flex for serious work and flash for animation. I suspect it'll end up as a case study of not what to do in branding lectures. Paul Mike ... who tries to excel as a developer and has great respect for excellent designers “Yes, I can see your point. I think the two of us are the only people who think that the Flex brand is weakened by the Flash moniker.� No, there are more of us... We just aren’t as vocal! -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Alternative FAQ location: https://share.acrobat.com/adc/document.do?docid=942dbdc8-e469-446f-b4cf-1e62079f6847 Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: flexcoders-dig...@yahoogroups.com flexcoders-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: flexcoders-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
