Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Robert Thompson]

I apologize to you Alex.

You seem level headed, and I agree, after reading some of the things I  
have, perhaps it was perceived as Fire and Brimstone.


One sure fact is, I've spent 3 years developing my own eCommerce  
Platform based on FLEX and an XML storage repository.


To see the press release about Adobe creating applications just like  
the ones I, and I'm sure others, had and have planned, seems to be to  
be not the safest technology base to be in.


I have had a good look at OpenLaszlo.org and in Version 4.0 it looks  
like a great way to integrate things similar to Papervision3D, or even  
a CUDO based plug-in for NVIDIA CUDO 'C' programming language based  
GPU (graphics processing language) usage.


Macromedia has never taken a step like I saw in the press release and  
Whitepaper and client-list as Adobe has with Scene7 that will effect  
FLEX developers more than the majority of them realize right now.


Believe it or not, I'm on the SilverLight soap-box now also.  I'm on  
it all...no more blind happy pappa dedication to Adobe, they've made  
their plans clear.


So that's just my apology and response to you and to anyone I've  
offended.  I'm not making any money or getting off on these posts, I  
am genuinely concerned.


-r

On Aug 29, 2008, at 10:39 PM, Alex Harui wrote:



Matt Chotin is away this week and has moved from development to  
product management and therefore must now choose his words  
carefully.  I’m still in development so maybe I can get away with  
more.




Robert, I don’t think we’ve met, and I haven’t gone back to see your  
past history with Flex, but I would like to ask  you to think twice  
about the way you are trying to get your message across before  
hitting send.  Sending high priority messages, and maybe not having  
all of your facts straight, discredits your message and invites  
others to get mad or poke fun or both.  I believe your message is  
that Adobe also sells solutions via Scene7 and Adobe Consulting and  
could purposefully or accidentally end up competing with  
independents like yourself, and that there are alternatives to Flex  
such as OpenLaszlo and Silverlight and Quicktime.  That part of your  
message is not really debatable.  I’ve worked for Lotus and IBM in  
my past and they also both sold development tools and had solutions  
teams and there is a fine line they have to walk.  Occasionally,  
they stepped on one of their independents.




It is unfortunate that you’ve been burned in the past, and you and  
others should definitely keep on the lookout for competition whether  
from Adobe or other independents.  However, the call to arms to have  
everyone attend a webinar did not warrant “red alert” status.   
Yellow maybe.  And based on your past, I’m surprised you would place  
so much weight on what you would hear in a webinar or in any public  
statement by Adobe.  This is a fast moving marketplace and Adobe can  
change its mind right after talking to you.  You’ll always have to  
read the tea leaves and be ready to change course yourself.




Finally, this forum is not an Adobe forum.  There are non-Adobe  
moderators.  As far as I’m concerned, you can get on your soapbox  
anytime you want, but if you want to reach a wide audience, fire and  
brimstone may not be the best approach.  If you just want to vent,  
please warn us up front.  And when you get on your soapbox,  
sometimes you just have a clever comeback line or just ignore the  
hecklers, including me.  Yelling back at them is a waste of your  
energy.  Take the high road, choose your technologies, remain nimble  
and good luck to you.




-Alex



From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
On Behalf Of Robert Thompson

Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 3:50 PM
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Cc: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight,  
AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C




If you would just read your own comments you'd realize I'm posting  
objectively and angering just the few of you.


I'm thankful to the posters the other day who said, essentially, if  
you're not interested don't read it.


If your thankful to get some information to get to the root of the  
matter, look into it.


I spent $1,777 on FLEX 3.0 with ILOG Elixr, and a lot more on Master  
Suite.


So don't tell me I don't have the right to question the money I've  
spent and the time invested, and cut my losses, and simply make  
others aware that there is a War of the RIAs going on and if you  
care to look into it, here's an article on it,


http://counternotions.com/2007/11/15/apple-runtime-answer-2/

I have asked questions about coding. But I'm also looking for the  
stability of the platform. I pushed very hard from someone to step  
up and create an OpenGL framework, and although I'm sure there are  
others, I was one of them, rooting for Adobe, and Macromedia  
developers like Matt Chotin and a few others

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Robert Thompson]

Alex,

I appreciated your post.

It was helpful.

There have been others that have sent me a nice reply saying that it  
is good to keep any eye out, and for those that look into Scene7, they  
can make their own conclusions.


I appreciated your time and post and thanked you.

I wouldn't demand anything from you - and I don't think anyone else  
should either.


I would demand that Adobe not compete against FLEX users by combining  
the Scene7 platform with a FLEX based user interface that serves the  
masses, and will cause, at the very least, many potential clients to  
say No early on, and then never re-connect again whether they have  
success with Scene7 or not - and it's relevant because it's a FLEX  
based interface for corporations.


I'm for everyone at this point, except those who don't have ethics.

-r

On Aug 29, 2008, at 11:52 PM, Alex Harui wrote:



Didn’t take much time at all.  Wrote it while running unit tests.   
Please start a new thread about a scheduling framework and what is  
missing.  I doubt I will have time to do anything, but maybe someone  
else in the community can.




From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
On Behalf Of Vivian Richard

Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:14 PM
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight,  
AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C




Wow Alex you definitely did spent a lot of time to write
this email. Your time is really precious for the whole user
group. I am sure you could come up with another excellent
flex example if you would code during this time!!! :-) Alex
please develop a good example of flex schedule framework.
It is been a while that flex schedule framework came out
and there are no good examples out there. Now we
are looking at you to show us the way. Please give us time
and develop ALEXIAN example of flex schedule frame work.
It is not a rude demand but a humble request. Cheers

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Alex Harui [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Matt Chotin is away this week and has moved from development to  
product
 management and therefore must now choose his words carefully. I'm  
still in

 development so maybe I can get away with more.



 Robert, I don't think we've met, and I haven't gone back to see  
your past
 history with Flex, but I would like to ask you to think twice  
about the way
 you are trying to get your message across before hitting send.  
Sending high

 priority messages, and maybe not having all of your facts straight,
 discredits your message and invites others to get mad or poke fun  
or both.
 I believe your message is that Adobe also sells solutions via  
Scene7 and
 Adobe Consulting and could purposefully or accidentally end up  
competing
 with independents like yourself, and that there are alternatives  
to Flex
 such as OpenLaszlo and Silverlight and Quicktime. That part of  
your message
 is not really debatable. I've worked for Lotus and IBM in my past  
and they
 also both sold development tools and had solutions teams and there  
is a fine

 line they have to walk. Occasionally, they stepped on one of their
 independents.



 It is unfortunate that you've been burned in the past, and you and  
others
 should definitely keep on the lookout for competition whether from  
Adobe or
 other independents. However, the call to arms to have everyone  
attend a
 webinar did not warrant red alert status. Yellow maybe. And  
based on
 your past, I'm surprised you would place so much weight on what  
you would
 hear in a webinar or in any public statement by Adobe. This is a  
fast
 moving marketplace and Adobe can change its mind right after  
talking to
 you. You'll always have to read the tea leaves and be ready to  
change

 course yourself.



 Finally, this forum is not an Adobe forum. There are non-Adobe  
moderators.
 As far as I'm concerned, you can get on your soapbox anytime you  
want, but
 if you want to reach a wide audience, fire and brimstone may not  
be the best
 approach. If you just want to vent, please warn us up front. And  
when you
 get on your soapbox, sometimes you just have a clever comeback  
line or just
 ignore the hecklers, including me. Yelling back at them is a waste  
of your
 energy. Take the high road, choose your technologies, remain  
nimble and

 good luck to you.



 -Alex



 From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com  
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

 Behalf Of Robert Thompson
 Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 3:50 PM
 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
 Cc: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex,  
Silverlight, AJAX,

 soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C



 If you would just read your own comments you'd realize I'm posting
 objectively and angering just the few of you.

 I'm thankful to the posters the other day who said, essentially,  
if you're

 not interested don't read it.

 If your thankful to get some information to get to the root

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Robert Thompson]

I agree.  Let's see what happens.

Everyone here is an individual that can judge for themselves.

I myself and quite concerned.

I hope to be more informed than the Press Releases, White-paper and  
list of Clients already served by Adobe with a solution akin to the  
Hybrid or Flex Store and based on a high-performance platform.


Great.  But where does that FLEX mass-appeal product leave the  
developers.


If Scene7.com did it themselves great.  But Adobe has purchased them,  
the CEO of Adobe resigned about the same time, and now we have a new  
Adobe who is building a hybrid lightweight operating system in AIR  
that I have been very excited about in the past in my posts here, and  
in an OpenGL display framework (Papervision3D to the rescue), but now  
Adobe has just added a new dimension to all of thiscompetition in  
a very real sense against a developer, for example, bidding for a  
Small Running Shoe company.  Do they choose Adobe Scene7 or do they  
choose a developer?  Probably Adobe.


A ran 8:52 for the 3200m in college, All SEC twice, and NCAA  
Division-1, 3rd place championship team, and had a good running  
career, which is why I brought up the example of a running shoe store.


-r



On Aug 30, 2008, at 1:39 AM, Vivian Richard wrote:


As you said Alex, started a new thread and lets see what happens.

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Alex Harui [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Didn't take much time at all. Wrote it while running unit tests.  
Please
 start a new thread about a scheduling framework and what is  
missing. I

 doubt I will have time to do anything, but maybe someone else in the
 community can.



 From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com  
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

 Behalf Of Vivian Richard
 Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:14 PM
 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex,  
Silverlight, AJAX,

 soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C



 Wow Alex you definitely did spent a lot of time to write
 this email. Your time is really precious for the whole user
 group. I am sure you could come up with another excellent
 flex example if you would code during this time!!! :-) Alex
 please develop a good example of flex schedule framework.
 It is been a while that flex schedule framework came out
 and there are no good examples out there. Now we
 are looking at you to show us the way. Please give us time
 and develop ALEXIAN example of flex schedule frame work.
 It is not a rude demand but a humble request. Cheers

 On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Alex Harui [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:
 Matt Chotin is away this week and has moved from development to  
product
 management and therefore must now choose his words carefully. I'm  
still in

 development so maybe I can get away with more.



 Robert, I don't think we've met, and I haven't gone back to see  
your past
 history with Flex, but I would like to ask you to think twice  
about the

 way
 you are trying to get your message across before hitting send.  
Sending

 high
 priority messages, and maybe not having all of your facts straight,
 discredits your message and invites others to get mad or poke fun  
or both.
 I believe your message is that Adobe also sells solutions via  
Scene7 and
 Adobe Consulting and could purposefully or accidentally end up  
competing
 with independents like yourself, and that there are alternatives  
to Flex

 such as OpenLaszlo and Silverlight and Quicktime. That part of your
 message
 is not really debatable. I've worked for Lotus and IBM in my past  
and they
 also both sold development tools and had solutions teams and  
there is a

 fine
 line they have to walk. Occasionally, they stepped on one of their
 independents.



 It is unfortunate that you've been burned in the past, and you  
and others
 should definitely keep on the lookout for competition whether  
from Adobe

 or
 other independents. However, the call to arms to have everyone  
attend a
 webinar did not warrant red alert status. Yellow maybe. And  
based on
 your past, I'm surprised you would place so much weight on what  
you would
 hear in a webinar or in any public statement by Adobe. This is a  
fast
 moving marketplace and Adobe can change its mind right after  
talking to
 you. You'll always have to read the tea leaves and be ready to  
change

 course yourself.



 Finally, this forum is not an Adobe forum. There are non-Adobe  
moderators.
 As far as I'm concerned, you can get on your soapbox anytime you  
want, but
 if you want to reach a wide audience, fire and brimstone may not  
be the

 best
 approach. If you just want to vent, please warn us up front. And  
when you
 get on your soapbox, sometimes you just have a clever comeback  
line or

 just
 ignore the hecklers, including me. Yelling back at them is a  
waste of your
 energy. Take the high road, choose your technologies, remain  
nimble and

 good luck to you.



 -Alex



 From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com  
[mailto

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

There is a different way to look at this. Right now, Flash is still just 
and on-line technology in the view of most people. Even though AIR 
does a lot of things, people still don't think it is very important. 
Similar problem that Microsoft had with VB being considered only a 
desktop tech and almost none taking it seriously as a server until 
Microsoft built server based applications.

For me, Mass appeal of AIR is huge! It would mean that I can push Flex 
as a Desktop as well as a Web application. It becomes the replacement 
for VB and .net which then lets me solidify the build once/deploy 
everywhere that we have been talking about since the early Java days.

I understand your concern that Adobe is doing similar things as you are 
however, Micorsoft, IBM, Oracle and most others also make a lot of 
applications that are similar to what their developers build also. The 
difference is customization as well as usage. I think if Adobe can 
produce good desktop and Web applications that we can showcase, we will 
be able to move the market away from Microsoft and Sun and increase the 
viability of using Flex in corporations.

For me, at my company we were choosing between Silverlight, JavaFX, Doja 
and Flex. It was the fact that Microsoft had released Photoshop Express 
that helped to sell Flex.

That is my .02.


Robert Thompson wrote:

 I agree.  Let's see what happens.


 Everyone here is an individual that can judge for themselves.

 I myself and quite concerned.

 I hope to be more informed than the Press Releases, White-paper and 
 list of Clients already served by Adobe with a solution akin to the 
 Hybrid or Flex Store and based on a high-performance platform.

 Great.  But where does that FLEX mass-appeal product leave the developers.

 If Scene7.com did it themselves great.  But Adobe has purchased them, 
 the CEO of Adobe resigned about the same time, and now we have a new 
 Adobe who is building a hybrid lightweight operating system in AIR 
 that I have been very excited about in the past in my posts here, and 
 in an OpenGL display framework (Papervision3D to the rescue), but now 
 Adobe has just added a new dimension to all of thiscompetition in 
 a very real sense against a developer, for example, bidding for a 
 Small Running Shoe company.  Do they choose Adobe Scene7 or do they 
 choose a developer?  Probably Adobe.

 A ran 8:52 for the 3200m in college, All SEC twice, and NCAA 
 Division-1, 3rd place championship team, and had a good running 
 career, which is why I brought up the example of a running shoe store.

 -r

 **
 *  *

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Paul Andrews]

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, 
soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C


 There is a different way to look at this. Right now, Flash is still just
 and on-line technology in the view of most people. Even though AIR
 does a lot of things, people still don't think it is very important.
 Similar problem that Microsoft had with VB being considered only a
 desktop tech and almost none taking it seriously as a server until
 Microsoft built server based applications.

 For me, Mass appeal of AIR is huge! It would mean that I can push Flex
 as a Desktop as well as a Web application. It becomes the replacement
 for VB and .net which then lets me solidify the build once/deploy
 everywhere that we have been talking about since the early Java days.

 I understand your concern that Adobe is doing similar things as you are
 however, Micorsoft, IBM, Oracle and most others also make a lot of
 applications that are similar to what their developers build also. The
 difference is customization as well as usage. I think if Adobe can
 produce good desktop and Web applications that we can showcase, we will
 be able to move the market away from Microsoft and Sun and increase the
 viability of using Flex in corporations.

 For me, at my company we were choosing between Silverlight, JavaFX, Doja
 and Flex. It was the fact that Microsoft had released Photoshop Express
 that helped to sell Flex.

Scary. Microsoft just bought Adobe. Shriek!

The development world is big and Adobe consulting doesn't come cheap, so I 
think there's those that can afford the cream of the crop no matter what the 
cost and then there's the rest of the world that have budgets, so there's 
always going to be room for everyone.

Paul

 That is my .02.


 Robert Thompson wrote:

 I agree.  Let's see what happens.


 Everyone here is an individual that can judge for themselves.

 I myself and quite concerned.

 I hope to be more informed than the Press Releases, White-paper and
 list of Clients already served by Adobe with a solution akin to the
 Hybrid or Flex Store and based on a high-performance platform.

 Great.  But where does that FLEX mass-appeal product leave the 
 developers.

 If Scene7.com did it themselves great.  But Adobe has purchased them,
 the CEO of Adobe resigned about the same time, and now we have a new
 Adobe who is building a hybrid lightweight operating system in AIR
 that I have been very excited about in the past in my posts here, and
 in an OpenGL display framework (Papervision3D to the rescue), but now
 Adobe has just added a new dimension to all of thiscompetition in
 a very real sense against a developer, for example, bidding for a
 Small Running Shoe company.  Do they choose Adobe Scene7 or do they
 choose a developer?  Probably Adobe.

 A ran 8:52 for the 3200m in college, All SEC twice, and NCAA
 Division-1, 3rd place championship team, and had a good running
 career, which is why I brought up the example of a running shoe store.

 -r

 ** 

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Robert Thompson]

I like you're opinion.

Except the part about IBM and Microsoft developing similarly.

I'm not a Microsoft lover, but I used to be, long story.  But since  
I've recovered from the Ballmer dance most seen on YouTube, I kind of  
like them now.  I've done 4 ASP.Net projects, and 2 very large VB.Net  
projects.  My problem with MS in the 90's was them taking applications  
written by the ISVs that made them popular, and including them one by  
one as time went on, in the OS itself.   The worst of this came in the  
SUN v Microsoft debate.  To actually see in discovery that they hacked  
Java so it would perform poorly.  Hopefully most of those people are  
gone by now, and I hope, though will never know, that Gates now having  
a family has changed his outlook on how he treats young grads. coming  
out of college to start small businesses or freelance.


With Adobe and Scene7.com, do to their great Imaging applications and  
history with users using applications like Lightroom, is see a very  
real close together magnet here (as an analogy IBM, Microsoft and  
others do highly sophisticated contracts that only they could do and  
as far as a gauge for us being in the middle of 2 attracting magnets;  
one being IBM for example and the other being the company we'd like to  
serve; the magnets are far apart).   But with Adobe those magnets are  
very close together, and I see a very user friendly E-Commerce system  
that almost directly mirrors the Adobe Hybrid Store, or the Full  
Store, only even better, and incorporating possibly Edge and Grid  
computing, as well as what Scene7 really was, as that is the way they  
can color images.


So Adobe is on the road to producing an extremely easy to use  
eCommerce application for the masses, and we will be left with  
applications in other areas.  But as time goes by, this will narrow  
more and more.  I've been in the business since 1988 when IBM chose me  
over 8 other graduate applicants (and I was the only other undergrad  
applicant) for a Windows project for an ATM Performance Analyzer with  
the EE Dept.  I was chosen because I showed up for the Interview with  
the application 50% done.


So I went into Windows and I have to be careful about my story, but  
there is a public article not of my doing here at FedCir Federal  
Circuit / only I had to bow out because since I first met with them  
in August of 2001 the following day I had a seizure and I've had a  
seizure condition every since.  Life is no longer a long and winding  
yellow brook road for me, I'm doing things in music that help  
Epilepsy, my SWF and CoreAudio, etc. development for the future will  
be my future as I'm on Medicaid now.  However, I did eventually get a  
great eCommerce platform done, and it will last  probably a year or so  
and I'll get a client when I can (my income is capped anyway) and it  
will be worth little after Scene7 is out for a few years.


So I have a very large perspective on this, and it isn't looking  
pretty.


If you research my past posts, you'll find extreme excitement by me  
about AIR, asking Adobe to find a way to integrate OpenGL before  
Silverlight leveraged DirectX against it.


Now I feel differently.  The CEO resigned last Fall, and whoever is in  
charge now has a different plan that effects us developers.


Scene7 attorneys, as far as I know, are Thompson Reuters in NYC and  
Mary A. Fracis is the executing attorney on some of their issues, and  
I've called her as well as people at Scene7 twice to get more clear on  
the issues.


The 2nd call to Scene7 made very very clear that they do intend to do  
exactly what I felt they would, only they call it eCataloging which  
is a pre-cursor to doing anything eCommerce with the special imaging  
that Scene7 does on, for example, changing the color of a sweater.   
The difference is, Adobe is not bringing this to us as far as I was  
told, they are, and I asked directly, So is it possible that Adobe  
could bid against another company using FLEX to do a contract for a  
company? (I used a shoe company earlier because Nike is one of their  
many, many clients).


I'm not worried about bidding on Fortune 500, I'm worried about the  
more and more often complaint of users who know more and more about  
what's going on saying, No, I just bought Scene7 LE, for example, and  
it makes it so easy.  I don't need any custom development.


This single step that Adobe has taken has totally blurred the line  
that would have never been blurred at Macromedia, Adobe is now both a  
Premiere Imaging Firm, and a Firm using the very programming tools it  
sells, not to integrate into a big operating system, but to Bid on  
contracts using it, even against their own developer community, and in  
the long run, AIR is virtually a lightweight operating system of  
global proportions.


My thinking is that the new CEO of Adobe has lust in his eyes, but I  
don't know that for a fact because I've never seen him.


All I 

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Robert Thompson]

Actually the rumor was and may still be that Apple will buy Adobe.

Now that would be good news to me.

Steven Jobs is the one figure I've been following since I was a kid.

Out of all the CEO's from the old Borland, to Microsoft, to Zinc (when  
AOL was a little DOS app.), he seems to be the only one to maintain a  
calm integrity and come out on top.


You can see it when he gives a speech.

Steve Ballmer when to school here in my home state of Michigan and  
Country Day Prep academy (unfortunately with my attorney when to  
school with him at the same time in my thing which is described not  
by me but by someone writing about the Federal Circuit of appeals;  
they went to school together in '72 '74) and Ballmer is still on the  
board.


Can you ever imagine the cool and calm Jobs doing a dance like Steve  
Ballmer did - the contrast is amazing to anyone who's Scene7 or more  
Jobs' speeches.


In any event, I put Apple over every other company -- that's just me  
-- may not be others, so it's all good, don't flame me.


But I've spent nearly $5,000 on Adobe software and I'd like to return  
every bit of it if this chosen date by them of Sept. 11th Webinar  
proves to be what I think it is.


I'm sure they're listening and may put a spin on it, but please, for  
your own sakes, do not trust any Corporations words, trust only the  
Actions they take.  Take it from a 40 year old telling a 20-25 year  
old, please use your talents wisely and be careful who you dedicate  
yourself too.  Ultimately, you should dedicate yourself to you and  
your family, if you have one, and take the route that will keep your  
investment in time and money safe.  If your a 9-5'er, and I know a lot  
of them in this Big3 area, there are different kinds of risks, that  
have a lot less to do with Flex (usually those are the people that had  
bosses shell out the $20,000 or so, I forget the exact price, for FLEX  
1.0).


-r

On Aug 30, 2008, at 6:50 PM, Paul Andrews wrote:


- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight,  
AJAX,

soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

 There is a different way to look at this. Right now, Flash is  
still just

 and on-line technology in the view of most people. Even though AIR
 does a lot of things, people still don't think it is very important.
 Similar problem that Microsoft had with VB being considered only a
 desktop tech and almost none taking it seriously as a server until
 Microsoft built server based applications.

 For me, Mass appeal of AIR is huge! It would mean that I can push  
Flex
 as a Desktop as well as a Web application. It becomes the  
replacement

 for VB and .net which then lets me solidify the build once/deploy
 everywhere that we have been talking about since the early Java  
days.


 I understand your concern that Adobe is doing similar things as  
you are

 however, Micorsoft, IBM, Oracle and most others also make a lot of
 applications that are similar to what their developers build also.  
The

 difference is customization as well as usage. I think if Adobe can
 produce good desktop and Web applications that we can showcase, we  
will
 be able to move the market away from Microsoft and Sun and  
increase the

 viability of using Flex in corporations.

 For me, at my company we were choosing between Silverlight,  
JavaFX, Doja
 and Flex. It was the fact that Microsoft had released Photoshop  
Express

 that helped to sell Flex.

Scary. Microsoft just bought Adobe. Shriek!

The development world is big and Adobe consulting doesn't come  
cheap, so I
think there's those that can afford the cream of the crop no matter  
what the
cost and then there's the rest of the world that have budgets, so  
there's

always going to be room for everyone.

Paul

 That is my .02.


 Robert Thompson wrote:

 I agree. Let's see what happens.


 Everyone here is an individual that can judge for themselves.

 I myself and quite concerned.

 I hope to be more informed than the Press Releases, White-paper and
 list of Clients already served by Adobe with a solution akin to the
 Hybrid or Flex Store and based on a high-performance platform.

 Great. But where does that FLEX mass-appeal product leave the
 developers.

 If Scene7.com did it themselves great. But Adobe has purchased  
them,
 the CEO of Adobe resigned about the same time, and now we have a  
new

 Adobe who is building a hybrid lightweight operating system in AIR
 that I have been very excited about in the past in my posts here,  
and
 in an OpenGL display framework (Papervision3D to the rescue), but  
now
 Adobe has just added a new dimension to all of  
thiscompetition in

 a very real sense against a developer, for example, bidding for a
 Small Running Shoe company. Do they choose Adobe Scene7 or do they
 choose a developer? Probably Adobe.

 A ran 8:52

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Sherif Abdou]

Apple will not buy Adobe, Microsoft would not let it without a fight and $22.7 
billion is a big chunk of change and that's just the market cap now add a 
premium and they are looking at $30billion, that's amost 20% of Apple's market 
cap. Also, I really don't want them to ruin everything, i dont wana end up 
saying IFlash , IFlex, IPhotoshop :) 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Robert Thompson 
  To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, 
soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C


  Actually the rumor was and may still be that Apple will buy Adobe.



  Now that would be good news to me.


  Steven Jobs is the one figure I've been following since I was a kid.


  Out of all the CEO's from the old Borland, to Microsoft, to Zinc (when AOL 
was a little DOS app.), he seems to be the only one to maintain a calm 
integrity and come out on top.


  You can see it when he gives a speech.


  Steve Ballmer when to school here in my home state of Michigan and Country 
Day Prep academy (unfortunately with my attorney when to school with him at the 
same time in my thing which is described not by me but by someone writing 
about the Federal Circuit of appeals; they went to school together in '72 '74) 
and Ballmer is still on the board.


  Can you ever imagine the cool and calm Jobs doing a dance like Steve Ballmer 
did - the contrast is amazing to anyone who's Scene7 or more Jobs' speeches.


  In any event, I put Apple over every other company -- that's just me -- may 
not be others, so it's all good, don't flame me.


  But I've spent nearly $5,000 on Adobe software and I'd like to return every 
bit of it if this chosen date by them of Sept. 11th Webinar proves to be what I 
think it is.


  I'm sure they're listening and may put a spin on it, but please, for your own 
sakes, do not trust any Corporations words, trust only the Actions they take.  
Take it from a 40 year old telling a 20-25 year old, please use your talents 
wisely and be careful who you dedicate yourself too.  Ultimately, you should 
dedicate yourself to you and your family, if you have one, and take the route 
that will keep your investment in time and money safe.  If your a 9-5'er, and I 
know a lot of them in this Big3 area, there are different kinds of risks, that 
have a lot less to do with Flex (usually those are the people that had bosses 
shell out the $20,000 or so, I forget the exact price, for FLEX 1.0). 


  -r


  On Aug 30, 2008, at 6:50 PM, Paul Andrews wrote:


- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, 
soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

 There is a different way to look at this. Right now, Flash is still just
 and on-line technology in the view of most people. Even though AIR
 does a lot of things, people still don't think it is very important.
 Similar problem that Microsoft had with VB being considered only a
 desktop tech and almost none taking it seriously as a server until
 Microsoft built server based applications.

 For me, Mass appeal of AIR is huge! It would mean that I can push Flex
 as a Desktop as well as a Web application. It becomes the replacement
 for VB and .net which then lets me solidify the build once/deploy
 everywhere that we have been talking about since the early Java days.

 I understand your concern that Adobe is doing similar things as you are
 however, Micorsoft, IBM, Oracle and most others also make a lot of
 applications that are similar to what their developers build also. The
 difference is customization as well as usage. I think if Adobe can
 produce good desktop and Web applications that we can showcase, we will
 be able to move the market away from Microsoft and Sun and increase the
 viability of using Flex in corporations.

 For me, at my company we were choosing between Silverlight, JavaFX, Doja
 and Flex. It was the fact that Microsoft had released Photoshop Express
 that helped to sell Flex.

Scary. Microsoft just bought Adobe. Shriek!

The development world is big and Adobe consulting doesn't come cheap, so I 
think there's those that can afford the cream of the crop no matter what 
the 
cost and then there's the rest of the world that have budgets, so there's 
always going to be room for everyone.

Paul

 That is my .02.


 Robert Thompson wrote:

 I agree. Let's see what happens.


 Everyone here is an individual that can judge for themselves.

 I myself and quite concerned.

 I hope to be more informed than the Press Releases, White-paper and
 list of Clients already served by Adobe with a solution akin

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Robert Thompson]

I agree, I doubt it would happen, and MS isn't very successful at  
buying out large companies due to perceived risk of getting into a  
Sherman Act type of thing again.


I'd rather Apple not also, I'm abandoning Adobe unless I hear  
something different.


If I can't get my money back from purchases, I'll just let it go, and  
do Audio Unit and NVIDIA CUDO programming on Mac OS X.  I have an 8- 
core 3.4, 32GB, 4 bay 300GBx15krpm RAID0, dual 30 with NVIDIA 5500.


The things that I'm working on as an accepted CUDO developer are  
amazing.


I hope to encourage Papervision3D to add support for CUDO and to go  
out on their own and develop their own plug-in.


NOW is the perfect TIME for Papervision3D to do this, not later.

I'd be a happy camper then and hide 9 of my fingers for a second a  
send the photoship to Ablwme Corp. whom just a week ago I continiued  
to lovenot after what I've discovered in the past few days.


-r


On Aug 30, 2008, at 10:59 PM, Sherif Abdou wrote:



Apple will not buy Adobe, Microsoft would not let it without a fight  
and $22.7 billion is a big chunk of change and that's just the  
market cap now add a premium and they are looking at $30billion,  
that's amost 20% of Apple's market cap. Also, I really don't want  
them to ruin everything, i dont wana end up saying IFlash , IFlex,  
IPhotoshop :)

- Original Message -
From: Robert Thompson
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight,  
AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C


Actually the rumor was and may still be that Apple will buy Adobe.


Now that would be good news to me.

Steven Jobs is the one figure I've been following since I was a kid.

Out of all the CEO's from the old Borland, to Microsoft, to Zinc  
(when AOL was a little DOS app.), he seems to be the only one to  
maintain a calm integrity and come out on top.


You can see it when he gives a speech.

Steve Ballmer when to school here in my home state of Michigan and  
Country Day Prep academy (unfortunately with my attorney when to  
school with him at the same time in my thing which is described  
not by me but by someone writing about the Federal Circuit of  
appeals; they went to school together in '72 '74) and Ballmer is  
still on the board.


Can you ever imagine the cool and calm Jobs doing a dance like Steve  
Ballmer did - the contrast is amazing to anyone who's Scene7 or more  
Jobs' speeches.


In any event, I put Apple over every other company -- that's just me  
-- may not be others, so it's all good, don't flame me.


But I've spent nearly $5,000 on Adobe software and I'd like to  
return every bit of it if this chosen date by them of Sept. 11th  
Webinar proves to be what I think it is.


I'm sure they're listening and may put a spin on it, but please, for  
your own sakes, do not trust any Corporations words, trust only the  
Actions they take.  Take it from a 40 year old telling a 20-25 year  
old, please use your talents wisely and be careful who you dedicate  
yourself too.  Ultimately, you should dedicate yourself to you and  
your family, if you have one, and take the route that will keep your  
investment in time and money safe.  If your a 9-5'er, and I know a  
lot of them in this Big3 area, there are different kinds of risks,  
that have a lot less to do with Flex (usually those are the people  
that had bosses shell out the $20,000 or so, I forget the exact  
price, for FLEX 1.0).


-r

On Aug 30, 2008, at 6:50 PM, Paul Andrews wrote:


- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex,  
Silverlight, AJAX,

soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

 There is a different way to look at this. Right now, Flash is  
still just
 and on-line technology in the view of most people. Even though  
AIR
 does a lot of things, people still don't think it is very  
important.

 Similar problem that Microsoft had with VB being considered only a
 desktop tech and almost none taking it seriously as a server until
 Microsoft built server based applications.

 For me, Mass appeal of AIR is huge! It would mean that I can push  
Flex
 as a Desktop as well as a Web application. It becomes the  
replacement

 for VB and .net which then lets me solidify the build once/deploy
 everywhere that we have been talking about since the early Java  
days.


 I understand your concern that Adobe is doing similar things as  
you are

 however, Micorsoft, IBM, Oracle and most others also make a lot of
 applications that are similar to what their developers build  
also. The

 difference is customization as well as usage. I think if Adobe can
 produce good desktop and Web applications that we can showcase,  
we will
 be able to move the market away from Microsoft and Sun and  
increase the

 viability of using Flex

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Michael Schmalle]

Ok,

Since one of the people you are talking to me, let this be straight.

I have seen you 2 years ago on this list spreading propaganda just like you
are doing right now.

Propaganda... you are now dousing everybody with YOUR crap, that is what
propaganda is. This list is for flex development.

I agree with whoever said start your own blog, get it aggregated and you
will have plenty of people giving you what you want, attention.

Another question, do you ever read what you have written before you send it?
Your structure in language is read from my eyes as paranoid. A tell in
paranoid witting is how many parenthesis the writer uses. I would say your
use of them ranks pretty high.

I think anybody that cares about this list and it's integrity definitely do
not want more people spewing like you have done this week.

Mike

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Robert Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:


 OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Flash, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime

 First of all to the gentlemen suggesting I'm slamming the list. I am not
 and I take offense at that. Don't accuse me when I am responding to someone
 else. I posted only 2 original posts and they were in the best interest of
 the [flexcoders] community, some agreed, some did not. Do not accuse me of
 spamming unless you are from Adobe and moderating this list.

 Second of all, I've been continuing to research this, and have a simple
 answer to the Runtime Wars that are very real and goign on and are a part
 of the acquisition of Scene7 which DIRECTLY RELATES TO FLEXCODERS. Don't
 question, Mr. Person who accuses me of spamming, my motives when I'm trying
 to get to the bottom of this.

 Thirdly, OpenLazlo.org has also scene the shifting going on in the industry
 between Silverlight and Flex/Swf, Quicktime SDK, and others and has begun
 and open source solution. So there you have it. Do not accuse me and get
 aggressive without doing your own research.

 I'm in this to better our investments in time and money (for those who care
 about it). If you continue to defame me with an accusation of Spamming you
 better back it up with an Original Posting by me that is off topic. I am not
 Spamming, and if you feel I have, show me, and If it's true I will stop it.
 But I intend to get to the bottom of this legally or otherwise.

 EVERYONE BE AN INDIVIDUAL: Don't let anyone sucker you into thinking for
 you. Do your own research and look to OpenLaszlo.org which appears to be a
 noble effort recognizing the struggles going on in Adobe with the
 resignation of the CEO last Fall.

 [flexcoders] should be aware that they have multiple options and One
 blasted person trying to tape my mouth shut by claiming I'm spamming had
 better be from Adobe and not just another developer trying to cut-down free
 speech that IS ON TOPIC WITH THE FUTURE of our Investment in Time and Money.
 Do any of us want to waste 4 years only to find out it was for not?

 If you claim I'm spamming the list by providing a URL, my URL earlier
 posted was so I could present the research I'm doing w/o posting to this
 group and offending people like you who just get in the way.

 I like the earlier posting of the individual lady who said, let it live, or
 feed it. The comments thereafter were uneeded and more contrary to the
 policies of polite procedure of this group than trying to inform. others.
 I've been there, I've been screwed by a large company who did a very similar
 thing that is happening now; so if you don't want to listen, skip the
 posting and stop accusing me.

 -r
  




-- 
Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com

Teoti Graphix Blog
http://www.blog.teotigraphix.com

You can find more by solving the problem then by 'asking the question'.

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Doug McCune]

God forgive me, for I have sinned. I am responding to a thread I know
I absolutely should not have replied to. Sorry for encouraging the
ranting, I just couldn't not reply when this amazing email came into
my inbox. Robert, I'll address each paragraph one at a time and tell
you exactly why this message, as well as the ones you have been
sending in the last day or so, are in fact complete spam and worthy of
the comments you have received.

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Robert Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Flash, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime

Simply incorrect. OpenLaszlo has been around for years and has always
targeted both the Flash runtime and AJAX. That's what it does and
that's what it has always done. You write an app and you can target
Flash or DHTML. There it no support for Silverlight, there is no
support for Flex (what woudl that even mean?), I don't know what you
are suggesting when you claim they support Quicktime but that
doesn't even make sense. If you are going to make wild claims please
back them up with references so we can verify. I also want to point
out that this sentence and only one other short sentence later in this
message (also completely factually incorrect) are the only two parts
of this email that have anything at all to do with the subject of this
thread.

 First of all to the gentlemen suggesting I'm slamming the list. I am not and 
 I take offense at that. Don't accuse me when I am responding to someone else. 
 I posted only 2 original posts and they were in the best interest of the 
 [flexcoders] community, some agreed, some did not. Do not accuse me of 
 spamming unless you are from Adobe and moderating this list.

This has nothing to do with the topic you posted. If you have a gripe
about someone's reply then reply to that. By creating a new thread and
filling it with completely unrelated paragraphs like this you are in
fact spamming the list.

 Second of all, I've been continuing to research this, and have a simple 
 answer to the Runtime Wars that are very real and goign on and are a part 
 of the acquisition of Scene7 which DIRECTLY RELATES TO FLEXCODERS. Don't 
 question, Mr. Person who accuses me of spamming, my motives when I'm trying 
 to get to the bottom of this.

Completely unrelated to the subject you posted.

 Thirdly, OpenLazlo.org has also scene the shifting going on in the industry 
 between Silverlight and Flex/Swf, Quicktime SDK, and others and has begun and 
 open source solution. So there you have it. Do not accuse me and get 
 aggressive without doing your own research.

Again, OpenLazlo has been around for years, I assume most people on
this list know about it. And even if not this post does not provide
any new information whatsoever, and instead only provides misleading
and factual incorrect information.

 I'm in this to better our investments in time and money (for those who care 
 about it). If you continue to defame me with an accusation of Spamming you 
 better back it up with an Original Posting by me that is off topic. I am not 
 Spamming, and if you feel I have, show me, and If it's true I will stop it. 
 But I intend to get to the bottom of this legally or otherwise.

Fine, cheers, have fun. But this post does not have any information
regarding the topic you posted, so please keep the personal monologues
under wraps unless you are talking about something. You want an
original posting that is off-topic? THIS ONE.

 EVERYONE BE AN INDIVIDUAL: Don't let anyone sucker you into thinking for you. 
 Do your own research and look to OpenLaszlo.org which appears to be a noble 
 effort recognizing the struggles going on in Adobe with the resignation of 
 the CEO last Fall.

Again, OpenLazlo is not new. It has nothing to do with the Adobe CEO
at all. Do your own research before spamming with incorrect
information please.

 [flexcoders] should be aware that they have multiple options and One blasted 
 person trying to tape my mouth shut by claiming I'm spamming had better be 
 from Adobe and not just another developer trying to cut-down free speech that 
 IS ON TOPIC WITH THE FUTURE of our Investment in Time and Money. Do any of us 
 want to waste 4 years only to find out it was for not?

I don't think anyone is denying there are multiple options, we're just
saying that you going off on long rants without any information of
substance is getting annoying.

 If you claim I'm spamming the list by providing a URL, my URL earlier posted 
 was so I could present the research I'm doing w/o posting to this group and 
 offending people like you who just get in the way.

No, we're claiming you're spamming the list by messages exactly like these.

 I like the earlier posting of the individual lady who said, let it live, or 
 feed it. The comments thereafter were uneeded and more contrary to the 
 policies of polite procedure of this group than trying to inform. others. 
 I've been there, I've been screwed by a large company 

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Michael Schmalle]

Doug,

I take your hand and walk through fiery hell in hopes the Mr. Person might
be exorcised.

Mike

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Doug McCune [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   God forgive me, for I have sinned. I am responding to a thread I know
 I absolutely should not have replied to. Sorry for encouraging the
 ranting, I just couldn't not reply when this amazing email came into
 my inbox. Robert, I'll address each paragraph one at a time and tell
 you exactly why this message, as well as the ones you have been
 sending in the last day or so, are in fact complete spam and worthy of
 the comments you have received.


 On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Robert Thompson [EMAIL 
 PROTECTED]plasmaphonic%40mac.com
 wrote:
 
  OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Flash, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime

 Simply incorrect. OpenLaszlo has been around for years and has always
 targeted both the Flash runtime and AJAX. That's what it does and
 that's what it has always done. You write an app and you can target
 Flash or DHTML. There it no support for Silverlight, there is no
 support for Flex (what woudl that even mean?), I don't know what you
 are suggesting when you claim they support Quicktime but that
 doesn't even make sense. If you are going to make wild claims please
 back them up with references so we can verify. I also want to point
 out that this sentence and only one other short sentence later in this
 message (also completely factually incorrect) are the only two parts
 of this email that have anything at all to do with the subject of this
 thread.

  First of all to the gentlemen suggesting I'm slamming the list. I am not
 and I take offense at that. Don't accuse me when I am responding to someone
 else. I posted only 2 original posts and they were in the best interest of
 the [flexcoders] community, some agreed, some did not. Do not accuse me of
 spamming unless you are from Adobe and moderating this list.

 This has nothing to do with the topic you posted. If you have a gripe
 about someone's reply then reply to that. By creating a new thread and
 filling it with completely unrelated paragraphs like this you are in
 fact spamming the list.

  Second of all, I've been continuing to research this, and have a simple
 answer to the Runtime Wars that are very real and goign on and are a part
 of the acquisition of Scene7 which DIRECTLY RELATES TO FLEXCODERS. Don't
 question, Mr. Person who accuses me of spamming, my motives when I'm trying
 to get to the bottom of this.

 Completely unrelated to the subject you posted.

  Thirdly, OpenLazlo.org has also scene the shifting going on in the
 industry between Silverlight and Flex/Swf, Quicktime SDK, and others and has
 begun and open source solution. So there you have it. Do not accuse me and
 get aggressive without doing your own research.

 Again, OpenLazlo has been around for years, I assume most people on
 this list know about it. And even if not this post does not provide
 any new information whatsoever, and instead only provides misleading
 and factual incorrect information.

  I'm in this to better our investments in time and money (for those who
 care about it). If you continue to defame me with an accusation of Spamming
 you better back it up with an Original Posting by me that is off topic. I am
 not Spamming, and if you feel I have, show me, and If it's true I will stop
 it. But I intend to get to the bottom of this legally or otherwise.

 Fine, cheers, have fun. But this post does not have any information
 regarding the topic you posted, so please keep the personal monologues
 under wraps unless you are talking about something. You want an
 original posting that is off-topic? THIS ONE.

  EVERYONE BE AN INDIVIDUAL: Don't let anyone sucker you into thinking for
 you. Do your own research and look to OpenLaszlo.org which appears to be a
 noble effort recognizing the struggles going on in Adobe with the
 resignation of the CEO last Fall.

 Again, OpenLazlo is not new. It has nothing to do with the Adobe CEO
 at all. Do your own research before spamming with incorrect
 information please.

  [flexcoders] should be aware that they have multiple options and One
 blasted person trying to tape my mouth shut by claiming I'm spamming had
 better be from Adobe and not just another developer trying to cut-down free
 speech that IS ON TOPIC WITH THE FUTURE of our Investment in Time and Money.
 Do any of us want to waste 4 years only to find out it was for not?

 I don't think anyone is denying there are multiple options, we're just
 saying that you going off on long rants without any information of
 substance is getting annoying.

  If you claim I'm spamming the list by providing a URL, my URL earlier
 posted was so I could present the research I'm doing w/o posting to this
 group and offending people like you who just get in the way.

 No, we're claiming you're spamming the list by messages exactly like these.

  I like the earlier posting of the individual lady 

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Robert Thompson]

I've ready half a dozen articles on OpenLaszlo.org and I like it.

It's another option.

-r

 
On Friday, August 29, 2008, at 02:59PM, Doug McCune [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
God forgive me, for I have sinned. I am responding to a thread I know
I absolutely should not have replied to. Sorry for encouraging the
ranting, I just couldn't not reply when this amazing email came into
my inbox. Robert, I'll address each paragraph one at a time and tell
you exactly why this message, as well as the ones you have been
sending in the last day or so, are in fact complete spam and worthy of
the comments you have received.

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Robert Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Flash, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime

Simply incorrect. OpenLaszlo has been around for years and has always
targeted both the Flash runtime and AJAX. That's what it does and
that's what it has always done. You write an app and you can target
Flash or DHTML. There it no support for Silverlight, there is no
support for Flex (what woudl that even mean?), I don't know what you
are suggesting when you claim they support Quicktime but that
doesn't even make sense. If you are going to make wild claims please
back them up with references so we can verify. I also want to point
out that this sentence and only one other short sentence later in this
message (also completely factually incorrect) are the only two parts
of this email that have anything at all to do with the subject of this
thread.

 First of all to the gentlemen suggesting I'm slamming the list. I am not and 
 I take offense at that. Don't accuse me when I am responding to someone 
 else. I posted only 2 original posts and they were in the best interest of 
 the [flexcoders] community, some agreed, some did not. Do not accuse me of 
 spamming unless you are from Adobe and moderating this list.

This has nothing to do with the topic you posted. If you have a gripe
about someone's reply then reply to that. By creating a new thread and
filling it with completely unrelated paragraphs like this you are in
fact spamming the list.

 Second of all, I've been continuing to research this, and have a simple 
 answer to the Runtime Wars that are very real and goign on and are a part 
 of the acquisition of Scene7 which DIRECTLY RELATES TO FLEXCODERS. Don't 
 question, Mr. Person who accuses me of spamming, my motives when I'm trying 
 to get to the bottom of this.

Completely unrelated to the subject you posted.

 Thirdly, OpenLazlo.org has also scene the shifting going on in the industry 
 between Silverlight and Flex/Swf, Quicktime SDK, and others and has begun 
 and open source solution. So there you have it. Do not accuse me and get 
 aggressive without doing your own research.

Again, OpenLazlo has been around for years, I assume most people on
this list know about it. And even if not this post does not provide
any new information whatsoever, and instead only provides misleading
and factual incorrect information.

 I'm in this to better our investments in time and money (for those who care 
 about it). If you continue to defame me with an accusation of Spamming you 
 better back it up with an Original Posting by me that is off topic. I am not 
 Spamming, and if you feel I have, show me, and If it's true I will stop it. 
 But I intend to get to the bottom of this legally or otherwise.

Fine, cheers, have fun. But this post does not have any information
regarding the topic you posted, so please keep the personal monologues
under wraps unless you are talking about something. You want an
original posting that is off-topic? THIS ONE.

 EVERYONE BE AN INDIVIDUAL: Don't let anyone sucker you into thinking for 
 you. Do your own research and look to OpenLaszlo.org which appears to be a 
 noble effort recognizing the struggles going on in Adobe with the 
 resignation of the CEO last Fall.

Again, OpenLazlo is not new. It has nothing to do with the Adobe CEO
at all. Do your own research before spamming with incorrect
information please.

 [flexcoders] should be aware that they have multiple options and One blasted 
 person trying to tape my mouth shut by claiming I'm spamming had better be 
 from Adobe and not just another developer trying to cut-down free speech 
 that IS ON TOPIC WITH THE FUTURE of our Investment in Time and Money. Do any 
 of us want to waste 4 years only to find out it was for not?

I don't think anyone is denying there are multiple options, we're just
saying that you going off on long rants without any information of
substance is getting annoying.

 If you claim I'm spamming the list by providing a URL, my URL earlier posted 
 was so I could present the research I'm doing w/o posting to this group and 
 offending people like you who just get in the way.

No, we're claiming you're spamming the list by messages exactly like these.

 I like the earlier posting of the individual lady who said, let it live, or 
 feed it. The comments 

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Robert Thompson]

If you would just read your own comments you'd realize I'm posting objectively 
and angering just the few of you.

I'm thankful to the posters the other day who said, essentially, if you're not 
interested don't read it.

If your thankful to get some information to get to the root of the matter, look 
into it.

I spent $1,777 on FLEX 3.0 with ILOG Elixr, and a lot more on Master Suite.

So don't tell me I don't have the right to question the money I've spent and 
the time invested, and cut my losses, and simply make others aware that there 
is a War of the RIAs going on and if you care to look into it, here's an 
article on it,

http://counternotions.com/2007/11/15/apple-runtime-answer-2/

I have asked questions about coding.  But I'm also looking for the stability of 
the platform.  I pushed very hard from someone to step up and create an OpenGL 
framework, and although I'm sure there are others, I was one of them, rooting 
for Adobe, and Macromedia developers like Matt Chotin and a few others 
appreciated it.

Most of these responses are just anger letting outit's the nature of the 
game when posting a controversial warning about the coding your doing and it's 
value 2 years from now when nearly everything can be done (I estimate 80% of 
what is commonly done in eCommerce, will be done using Scene7.com, not a FLEX 
developer earning a living).

Fyi, I made no claim that OpenLaszlo.org is a new effort, it's in version 4, 
but what is happening in version 4i is newer.

Throw the chip on your shoulder at someone else; I'm trying to warn some of 
those out there that may blindly make the same mistakes I made in my 20's by 
blindly trusting Microsoft and believing being chosen for an event to showcase 
my product was a good thing, an endorsement.  It wasn't.  It was a precursor 
for a patent.

Try to take the emotions out of this with the words like Crap and such.

-r
 
On Friday, August 29, 2008, at 03:01PM, Michael Schmalle [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
Doug,

I take your hand and walk through fiery hell in hopes the Mr. Person might
be exorcised.

Mike

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Doug McCune [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   God forgive me, for I have sinned. I am responding to a thread I know
 I absolutely should not have replied to. Sorry for encouraging the
 ranting, I just couldn't not reply when this amazing email came into
 my inbox. Robert, I'll address each paragraph one at a time and tell
 you exactly why this message, as well as the ones you have been
 sending in the last day or so, are in fact complete spam and worthy of
 the comments you have received.


 On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Robert Thompson [EMAIL 
 PROTECTED]plasmaphonic%40mac.com
 wrote:
 
  OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Flash, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime

 Simply incorrect. OpenLaszlo has been around for years and has always
 targeted both the Flash runtime and AJAX. That's what it does and
 that's what it has always done. You write an app and you can target
 Flash or DHTML. There it no support for Silverlight, there is no
 support for Flex (what woudl that even mean?), I don't know what you
 are suggesting when you claim they support Quicktime but that
 doesn't even make sense. If you are going to make wild claims please
 back them up with references so we can verify. I also want to point
 out that this sentence and only one other short sentence later in this
 message (also completely factually incorrect) are the only two parts
 of this email that have anything at all to do with the subject of this
 thread.

  First of all to the gentlemen suggesting I'm slamming the list. I am not
 and I take offense at that. Don't accuse me when I am responding to someone
 else. I posted only 2 original posts and they were in the best interest of
 the [flexcoders] community, some agreed, some did not. Do not accuse me of
 spamming unless you are from Adobe and moderating this list.

 This has nothing to do with the topic you posted. If you have a gripe
 about someone's reply then reply to that. By creating a new thread and
 filling it with completely unrelated paragraphs like this you are in
 fact spamming the list.

  Second of all, I've been continuing to research this, and have a simple
 answer to the Runtime Wars that are very real and goign on and are a part
 of the acquisition of Scene7 which DIRECTLY RELATES TO FLEXCODERS. Don't
 question, Mr. Person who accuses me of spamming, my motives when I'm trying
 to get to the bottom of this.

 Completely unrelated to the subject you posted.

  Thirdly, OpenLazlo.org has also scene the shifting going on in the
 industry between Silverlight and Flex/Swf, Quicktime SDK, and others and has
 begun and open source solution. So there you have it. Do not accuse me and
 get aggressive without doing your own research.

 Again, OpenLazlo has been around for years, I assume most people on
 this list know about it. And even if not this post does not provide
 any new information whatsoever, and 

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Paul Andrews]

- Original Message - 
From: Robert Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Cc: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, 
soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C


 I've ready half a dozen articles on OpenLaszlo.org and I like it.

 It's another option.

 -r

For goodness sake, this is flexcoders not 'the other options' list.

We all know you're not happy with Adobe. Let it be, we can work things out 
for ourselves. Enjoy OpenLaszlo - go and tell them they've got it right and 
forget flexcoders. 

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Robert Thompson]

Stop making personal comments, okay.

Stop painting me black...it IS about options.  You'll find out if you  
take the blinders off.


Just leave it alone and stop making it personal.

On Aug 29, 2008, at 7:17 PM, Paul Andrews wrote:


- Original Message -
From: Robert Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Cc: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight,  
AJAX,

soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

 I've ready half a dozen articles on OpenLaszlo.org and I like it.

 It's another option.

 -r

For goodness sake, this is flexcoders not 'the other options' list.

We all know you're not happy with Adobe. Let it be, we can work  
things out
for ourselves. Enjoy OpenLaszlo - go and tell them they've got it  
right and

forget flexcoders.

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Guy Morton]

Robert

I supported your initial posting on this issue, but I also said you'd  
need to keep it concise and not overstay your welcome. Unfortunately,  
your posts are getting longer and even less focussed and factual. If  
you have facts we should be aware of, state them clearly and  
concisely. If you don't, don't post. Long-winded and vague posts full  
of arm-waving are not going to win the argument for you, but will piss  
people off.


This list is also not for promoting other technologies. If you find  
something else you like, post a link for those interested and leave it  
at that. Any more than that will (quite rightly) be seen as spamming,  
trolling, or both.


Guy



On 30/08/2008, at 9:20 AM, Robert Thompson wrote:


Stop making personal comments, okay.


Stop painting me black...it IS about options.  You'll find out if  
you take the blinders off.


Just leave it alone and stop making it personal.

On Aug 29, 2008, at 7:17 PM, Paul Andrews wrote:


- Original Message -
From: Robert Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Cc: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex,  
Silverlight, AJAX,

soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

 I've ready half a dozen articles on OpenLaszlo.org and I like it.

 It's another option.

 -r

For goodness sake, this is flexcoders not 'the other options' list.

We all know you're not happy with Adobe. Let it be, we can work  
things out
for ourselves. Enjoy OpenLaszlo - go and tell them they've got it  
right and

forget flexcoders.

RE: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Alex Harui]

Matt Chotin is away this week and has moved from development to product 
management and therefore must now choose his words carefully.  I'm still in 
development so maybe I can get away with more.

Robert, I don't think we've met, and I haven't gone back to see your past 
history with Flex, but I would like to ask  you to think twice about the way 
you are trying to get your message across before hitting send.  Sending high 
priority messages, and maybe not having all of your facts straight, discredits 
your message and invites others to get mad or poke fun or both.  I believe your 
message is that Adobe also sells solutions via Scene7 and Adobe Consulting and 
could purposefully or accidentally end up competing with independents like 
yourself, and that there are alternatives to Flex such as OpenLaszlo and 
Silverlight and Quicktime.  That part of your message is not really debatable.  
I've worked for Lotus and IBM in my past and they also both sold development 
tools and had solutions teams and there is a fine line they have to walk.  
Occasionally, they stepped on one of their independents.

It is unfortunate that you've been burned in the past, and you and others 
should definitely keep on the lookout for competition whether from Adobe or 
other independents.  However, the call to arms to have everyone attend a 
webinar did not warrant red alert status.  Yellow maybe.  And based on your 
past, I'm surprised you would place so much weight on what you would hear in a 
webinar or in any public statement by Adobe.  This is a fast moving marketplace 
and Adobe can change its mind right after talking to you.  You'll always have 
to read the tea leaves and be ready to change course yourself.

Finally, this forum is not an Adobe forum.  There are non-Adobe moderators.  As 
far as I'm concerned, you can get on your soapbox anytime you want, but if you 
want to reach a wide audience, fire and brimstone may not be the best approach. 
 If you just want to vent, please warn us up front.  And when you get on your 
soapbox, sometimes you just have a clever comeback line or just ignore the 
hecklers, including me.  Yelling back at them is a waste of your energy.  Take 
the high road, choose your technologies, remain nimble and good luck to you.

-Alex

From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert 
Thompson
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 3:50 PM
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Cc: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon 
Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C


If you would just read your own comments you'd realize I'm posting objectively 
and angering just the few of you.

I'm thankful to the posters the other day who said, essentially, if you're not 
interested don't read it.

If your thankful to get some information to get to the root of the matter, look 
into it.

I spent $1,777 on FLEX 3.0 with ILOG Elixr, and a lot more on Master Suite.

So don't tell me I don't have the right to question the money I've spent and 
the time invested, and cut my losses, and simply make others aware that there 
is a War of the RIAs going on and if you care to look into it, here's an 
article on it,

http://counternotions.com/2007/11/15/apple-runtime-answer-2/

I have asked questions about coding. But I'm also looking for the stability of 
the platform. I pushed very hard from someone to step up and create an OpenGL 
framework, and although I'm sure there are others, I was one of them, rooting 
for Adobe, and Macromedia developers like Matt Chotin and a few others 
appreciated it.

Most of these responses are just anger letting outit's the nature of the 
game when posting a controversial warning about the coding your doing and it's 
value 2 years from now when nearly everything can be done (I estimate 80% of 
what is commonly done in eCommerce, will be done using Scene7.com, not a FLEX 
developer earning a living).

Fyi, I made no claim that OpenLaszlo.org is a new effort, it's in version 4, 
but what is happening in version 4i is newer.

Throw the chip on your shoulder at someone else; I'm trying to warn some of 
those out there that may blindly make the same mistakes I made in my 20's by 
blindly trusting Microsoft and believing being chosen for an event to showcase 
my product was a good thing, an endorsement. It wasn't. It was a precursor for 
a patent.

Try to take the emotions out of this with the words like Crap and such.

-r

On Friday, August 29, 2008, at 03:01PM, Michael Schmalle [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]mailto:teoti.graphix%40gmail.com wrote:
Doug,

I take your hand and walk through fiery hell in hopes the Mr. Person might
be exorcised.

Mike

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Doug McCune [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]mailto:doug%40dougmccune.com wrote:

 God forgive me, for I have sinned. I am responding to a thread I know
 I absolutely should not have replied to. Sorry for encouraging the
 ranting, I just couldn't not reply when this amazing

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Vivian Richard]

Wow Alex you definitely did spent a lot of time to write
this email. Your time is really precious for the whole user
group. I am sure you could come up with another excellent
flex example if you would code during this time!!! :-) Alex
please develop a good example of flex schedule framework.
It is been a while that flex schedule framework came out
   and there are no good examples out there. Now we
are looking at you to show us the way. Please give us time
and develop ALEXIAN example of flex schedule frame work.
It is not a rude demand but a humble request. Cheers







On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Alex Harui [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Matt Chotin is away this week and has moved from development to product
 management and therefore must now choose his words carefully.  I'm still in
 development so maybe I can get away with more.



 Robert, I don't think we've met, and I haven't gone back to see your past
 history with Flex, but I would like to ask  you to think twice about the way
 you are trying to get your message across before hitting send.  Sending high
 priority messages, and maybe not having all of your facts straight,
 discredits your message and invites others to get mad or poke fun or both.
 I believe your message is that Adobe also sells solutions via Scene7 and
 Adobe Consulting and could purposefully or accidentally end up competing
 with independents like yourself, and that there are alternatives to Flex
 such as OpenLaszlo and Silverlight and Quicktime.  That part of your message
 is not really debatable.  I've worked for Lotus and IBM in my past and they
 also both sold development tools and had solutions teams and there is a fine
 line they have to walk.  Occasionally, they stepped on one of their
 independents.



 It is unfortunate that you've been burned in the past, and you and others
 should definitely keep on the lookout for competition whether from Adobe or
 other independents.  However, the call to arms to have everyone attend a
 webinar did not warrant red alert status.  Yellow maybe.  And based on
 your past, I'm surprised you would place so much weight on what you would
 hear in a webinar or in any public statement by Adobe.  This is a fast
 moving marketplace and Adobe can change its mind right after talking to
 you.  You'll always have to read the tea leaves and be ready to change
 course yourself.



 Finally, this forum is not an Adobe forum.  There are non-Adobe moderators.
 As far as I'm concerned, you can get on your soapbox anytime you want, but
 if you want to reach a wide audience, fire and brimstone may not be the best
 approach.  If you just want to vent, please warn us up front.  And when you
 get on your soapbox, sometimes you just have a clever comeback line or just
 ignore the hecklers, including me.  Yelling back at them is a waste of your
 energy.  Take the high road, choose your technologies, remain nimble and
 good luck to you.



 -Alex



 From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Robert Thompson
 Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 3:50 PM
 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
 Cc: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX,
 soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C



 If you would just read your own comments you'd realize I'm posting
 objectively and angering just the few of you.

 I'm thankful to the posters the other day who said, essentially, if you're
 not interested don't read it.

 If your thankful to get some information to get to the root of the matter,
 look into it.

 I spent $1,777 on FLEX 3.0 with ILOG Elixr, and a lot more on Master Suite.

 So don't tell me I don't have the right to question the money I've spent and
 the time invested, and cut my losses, and simply make others aware that
 there is a War of the RIAs going on and if you care to look into it,
 here's an article on it,

 http://counternotions.com/2007/11/15/apple-runtime-answer-2/

 I have asked questions about coding. But I'm also looking for the stability
 of the platform. I pushed very hard from someone to step up and create an
 OpenGL framework, and although I'm sure there are others, I was one of them,
 rooting for Adobe, and Macromedia developers like Matt Chotin and a few
 others appreciated it.

 Most of these responses are just anger letting outit's the nature of the
 game when posting a controversial warning about the coding your doing and
 it's value 2 years from now when nearly everything can be done (I estimate
 80% of what is commonly done in eCommerce, will be done using Scene7.com,
 not a FLEX developer earning a living).

 Fyi, I made no claim that OpenLaszlo.org is a new effort, it's in version 4,
 but what is happening in version 4i is newer.

 Throw the chip on your shoulder at someone else; I'm trying to warn some of
 those out there that may blindly make the same mistakes I made in my 20's by
 blindly trusting Microsoft

RE: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Alex Harui]

Didn't take much time at all.  Wrote it while running unit tests.  Please start 
a new thread about a scheduling framework and what is missing.  I doubt I will 
have time to do anything, but maybe someone else in the community can.

From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vivian 
Richard
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:14 PM
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon 
Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C


Wow Alex you definitely did spent a lot of time to write
this email. Your time is really precious for the whole user
group. I am sure you could come up with another excellent
flex example if you would code during this time!!! :-) Alex
please develop a good example of flex schedule framework.
It is been a while that flex schedule framework came out
and there are no good examples out there. Now we
are looking at you to show us the way. Please give us time
and develop ALEXIAN example of flex schedule frame work.
It is not a rude demand but a humble request. Cheers

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Alex Harui [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]mailto:aharui%40adobe.com wrote:
 Matt Chotin is away this week and has moved from development to product
 management and therefore must now choose his words carefully. I'm still in
 development so maybe I can get away with more.



 Robert, I don't think we've met, and I haven't gone back to see your past
 history with Flex, but I would like to ask you to think twice about the way
 you are trying to get your message across before hitting send. Sending high
 priority messages, and maybe not having all of your facts straight,
 discredits your message and invites others to get mad or poke fun or both.
 I believe your message is that Adobe also sells solutions via Scene7 and
 Adobe Consulting and could purposefully or accidentally end up competing
 with independents like yourself, and that there are alternatives to Flex
 such as OpenLaszlo and Silverlight and Quicktime. That part of your message
 is not really debatable. I've worked for Lotus and IBM in my past and they
 also both sold development tools and had solutions teams and there is a fine
 line they have to walk. Occasionally, they stepped on one of their
 independents.



 It is unfortunate that you've been burned in the past, and you and others
 should definitely keep on the lookout for competition whether from Adobe or
 other independents. However, the call to arms to have everyone attend a
 webinar did not warrant red alert status. Yellow maybe. And based on
 your past, I'm surprised you would place so much weight on what you would
 hear in a webinar or in any public statement by Adobe. This is a fast
 moving marketplace and Adobe can change its mind right after talking to
 you. You'll always have to read the tea leaves and be ready to change
 course yourself.



 Finally, this forum is not an Adobe forum. There are non-Adobe moderators.
 As far as I'm concerned, you can get on your soapbox anytime you want, but
 if you want to reach a wide audience, fire and brimstone may not be the best
 approach. If you just want to vent, please warn us up front. And when you
 get on your soapbox, sometimes you just have a clever comeback line or just
 ignore the hecklers, including me. Yelling back at them is a waste of your
 energy. Take the high road, choose your technologies, remain nimble and
 good luck to you.



 -Alex



 From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.commailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com 
 [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.commailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com] On
 Behalf Of Robert Thompson
 Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 3:50 PM
 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.commailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com
 Cc: flexcoders@yahoogroups.commailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX,
 soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C



 If you would just read your own comments you'd realize I'm posting
 objectively and angering just the few of you.

 I'm thankful to the posters the other day who said, essentially, if you're
 not interested don't read it.

 If your thankful to get some information to get to the root of the matter,
 look into it.

 I spent $1,777 on FLEX 3.0 with ILOG Elixr, and a lot more on Master Suite.

 So don't tell me I don't have the right to question the money I've spent and
 the time invested, and cut my losses, and simply make others aware that
 there is a War of the RIAs going on and if you care to look into it,
 here's an article on it,

 http://counternotions.com/2007/11/15/apple-runtime-answer-2/

 I have asked questions about coding. But I'm also looking for the stability
 of the platform. I pushed very hard from someone to step up and create an
 OpenGL framework, and although I'm sure there are others, I was one of them,
 rooting for Adobe, and Macromedia developers like Matt Chotin and a few
 others appreciated it.

 Most of these responses are just anger

Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C

[Vivian Richard]

   As you said Alex, started a new thread and lets see what happens.



On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Alex Harui [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Didn't take much time at all.  Wrote it while running unit tests.  Please
 start a new thread about a scheduling framework and what is missing.  I
 doubt I will have time to do anything, but maybe someone else in the
 community can.



 From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Vivian Richard
 Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:14 PM
 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX,
 soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C



 Wow Alex you definitely did spent a lot of time to write
 this email. Your time is really precious for the whole user
 group. I am sure you could come up with another excellent
 flex example if you would code during this time!!! :-) Alex
 please develop a good example of flex schedule framework.
 It is been a while that flex schedule framework came out
 and there are no good examples out there. Now we
 are looking at you to show us the way. Please give us time
 and develop ALEXIAN example of flex schedule frame work.
 It is not a rude demand but a humble request. Cheers

 On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Alex Harui [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Matt Chotin is away this week and has moved from development to product
 management and therefore must now choose his words carefully. I'm still in
 development so maybe I can get away with more.



 Robert, I don't think we've met, and I haven't gone back to see your past
 history with Flex, but I would like to ask you to think twice about the
 way
 you are trying to get your message across before hitting send. Sending
 high
 priority messages, and maybe not having all of your facts straight,
 discredits your message and invites others to get mad or poke fun or both.
 I believe your message is that Adobe also sells solutions via Scene7 and
 Adobe Consulting and could purposefully or accidentally end up competing
 with independents like yourself, and that there are alternatives to Flex
 such as OpenLaszlo and Silverlight and Quicktime. That part of your
 message
 is not really debatable. I've worked for Lotus and IBM in my past and they
 also both sold development tools and had solutions teams and there is a
 fine
 line they have to walk. Occasionally, they stepped on one of their
 independents.



 It is unfortunate that you've been burned in the past, and you and others
 should definitely keep on the lookout for competition whether from Adobe
 or
 other independents. However, the call to arms to have everyone attend a
 webinar did not warrant red alert status. Yellow maybe. And based on
 your past, I'm surprised you would place so much weight on what you would
 hear in a webinar or in any public statement by Adobe. This is a fast
 moving marketplace and Adobe can change its mind right after talking to
 you. You'll always have to read the tea leaves and be ready to change
 course yourself.



 Finally, this forum is not an Adobe forum. There are non-Adobe moderators.
 As far as I'm concerned, you can get on your soapbox anytime you want, but
 if you want to reach a wide audience, fire and brimstone may not be the
 best
 approach. If you just want to vent, please warn us up front. And when you
 get on your soapbox, sometimes you just have a clever comeback line or
 just
 ignore the hecklers, including me. Yelling back at them is a waste of your
 energy. Take the high road, choose your technologies, remain nimble and
 good luck to you.



 -Alex



 From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Robert Thompson
 Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 3:50 PM
 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
 Cc: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX,
 soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C



 If you would just read your own comments you'd realize I'm posting
 objectively and angering just the few of you.

 I'm thankful to the posters the other day who said, essentially, if you're
 not interested don't read it.

 If your thankful to get some information to get to the root of the matter,
 look into it.

 I spent $1,777 on FLEX 3.0 with ILOG Elixr, and a lot more on Master
 Suite.

 So don't tell me I don't have the right to question the money I've spent
 and
 the time invested, and cut my losses, and simply make others aware that
 there is a War of the RIAs going on and if you care to look into it,
 here's an article on it,

 http://counternotions.com/2007/11/15/apple-runtime-answer-2/

 I have asked questions about coding. But I'm also looking for the
 stability
 of the platform. I pushed very hard from someone to step up and create an
 OpenGL framework, and although I'm sure there are others, I was one of
 them,
 rooting for Adobe, and Macromedia developers like Matt Chotin and a few
 others appreciated it.

 Most of these responses are just anger