Re: [flexcoders] Re: and I thought Adobe was a professional company. Whats going on with the upgrade

2007-01-09 Thread Michael Schmalle 
quot;tight". I would want to read enough detailed
information
> and find it quickly without the need to install the update to
determine if
> the risk of installing the update is less the the amount of effort
to
> continue developing without the update (at least for said
project). It might
> be just a link to a pdf that comprises the pages that were added
to the full
> documentation: list of changes, and the docs on the new features.
The sheer
> volume of the documentation for Flex can be overwhelming.
>
> On the subject of the documentation, having only worked with Flex
for about
> a couple of months in my free time, I still have mixed feelings
over its
> completeness in terms of at least examples and finding the right
stuff
> quickly. I've often had to "give up" on the documentation and
search the
> Internet for examples that meet my particular need. Interestingly
enough at
> times a Google search pinpoints what I need in the LiveDocs that
the
> straight search in the documentation failed to find. The other
issue I find
> is that the examples often utilize the simpliest of cases. An
example this
> week I wanted an example on using a checkbox within a data grid
but not one
> of the examples in the datagrid documentation showed doing
anything other
> then using a datagrid with the standard item renders. A set of
examples for
> a datagrid (or other components) would be to show the simple
example and a
> more complex example that exercises the bulk of the functionality:
using
> different item renderers etc. Often mxml examples will be shown,
but a
> similar example using ActionScript only is omitted. It took me
forever to
> figure out how to bind data without using ActionScript vs MXML.
>
> I'm not trying to flame anyone or create a bigger issue but there
are some
> things about this updater and the documenation and downloads page
that can
> or could definitely invoke emotions similar to the subject line
especially
> if someone is in a hurry and wants the information to be there
readily at
> their fingertips.
>
> Sincerely
> Mark R. Jonkman
>
>
> _
>
> From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com ] On
> Behalf Of David Mendels
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 6:37 AM
> To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com 
> Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Re: and I thought Adobe was a
professional
> company. Whats going on with the upgrade
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Have you tried the help system? The new functionality is
documented.
>
> Regards
> David
>

 





--
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http://www.teotigraphix.com

Blog - Flex2Components
http://www.flex2components.com

You can find more by solving the problem then by 'asking the question'.

Re: [flexcoders] Re: and I thought Adobe was a professional company. Whats going on with the upgrade

2007-01-07 Thread Robert Thompson 
FYI, my comment was based on errata not the Subject Line.
   
  I think everyone here likes Adobe or they wouldn't be using their software to 
base their solutions on it.
   
  To be clear, I was agreeing with the body of the message, not the subject 
line.

  No need for flame wars here.  Everyone has a right to their opinion; that's 
how things get noticed.  I think Adobe is working their butts off to make this 
transition, and I like it.
   
  I also am planning much of my future on FLEX2 so I hope bugs and errors are 
properly documented in each issue -- that's all.
   
  -r

Tim Hoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Fair enough Robert. Go ahead, make this flashcoders 2. Subject 
dropped.

-TH

btw, all I own is my keyboard.

--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Robert Thompson 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You don't have to read it Tim.
> 
> It's Bruce's personal opinion just as your request is a personal 
request.
> 
> It's real simple, you don't own this ofrum.
> 
> And I'm not sure personal requests are given priority here.
> 
> I happen to agree with Bruce; and I'm totally devoted to Adobe.
> 
> But Macromedia has handled things better in the past and I hope 
things improve.
> 
> We need Errata to know what's going on.
> 
> It's my personal request that you don't flame me for my personal 
opinion.
> 
> ;-/
> 
> Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Agreed :)
> 
> ( I got half-way down and went *noise..noise...noise...heh go 
Claus...noise..noise*) :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/7/07, Tim Hoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As a 
personal request, might I ask that this thread be closed. It's very 
easy to take pot-shots from the sidelines. But, from what I can 
tell, most on this list are serious people that appreciate the hard 
work and dedication that Adobe has provided. Granted, Flex isn't 
mature yet as a product. However, a lot of people here have gone 
through the beta cycles and come out just fine. After all, progress 
isn't free. It just takes a little effort. 
> That being said, please let us not sink into the same type of 
discourse that has plagued similar lists. If you're not a fan of 
Adobe and Flex, than this probably isn't the right place for you. 
They have a customer service department for that. In the mean time, 
all of the positive minded subscribers to this list have much more 
useful things to do with their time than reading personal rants. 
Sorry for the bluntness, but if you cant say something nice. 
> -TH 
> 
> --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, "boy_trike"  wrote: 
> >
> > Its great that there is an upgrade to 2.0.1 So where is the READ 
ME telling us about the 
> > changes. (oh yea, you can find a web page that tells you that 
there is something called 
> > modules and you can now change style sheets dynamically. but 
where are: 
> > 
> > 1). The examples
> > 2). The new syntax changes
> > 3). The list of the 250 bugs that are fixed (or are we supposed 
to guess which ones they 
> > got?)
> > 
> > We should NOT have to find out about these features on someones 
blog. This seems very 
> > amateurish to me. 
> > 
> > 
> > Bruce
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Regards, 
> Scott Barnes
> http://www.mossyblog.com 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>



 

 __
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Re: [flexcoders] Re: and I thought Adobe was a professional company. Whats going on with the upgrade

2007-01-07 Thread Robert Thompson 
You don't have to read it Tim.
   
  It's Bruce's personal opinion just as your request is a personal request.
   
  It's real simple, you don't own this ofrum.
   
  And I'm not sure personal requests are given priority here.
   
  I happen to agree with Bruce; and I'm totally devoted to Adobe.
   
  But Macromedia has handled things better in the past and I hope things 
improve.
   
  We need Errata to know what's going on.
   
  It's my personal request that you don't flame me for my personal opinion.
   
  ;-/

Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Agreed :)
   
  ( I got half-way down and went *noise..noise...noise...heh go 
Claus...noise..noise*) :)
   
  

 
  On 1/7/07, Tim Hoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:   As a personal 
request, might I ask that this thread be closed.  It's very easy to take 
pot-shots from the sidelines.  But, from what I can tell, most on this list are 
serious people that appreciate the hard work and dedication that Adobe has 
provided.  Granted, Flex isn't mature yet as a product.  However, a lot of 
people here have gone through the beta cycles and come out just fine.  After 
all, progress isn't free.  It just takes a little effort.  
  That being said, please let us not sink into the same type of discourse that 
has plagued similar lists.  If you're not a fan of Adobe and Flex, than this 
probably isn't the right place for you.  They have a customer service 
department for that.  In the mean time, all of the positive minded subscribers 
to this list have much more useful things to do with their time than reading 
personal rants.  Sorry for the bluntness, but if you cant say something 
nice. 
  -TH  

--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, "boy_trike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
>
> Its great that there is an upgrade to 2.0.1 So where is the READ ME telling 
> us about the 
> changes. (oh yea, you can find a web page that tells you that there is 
> something called 
> modules and you can now change style sheets dynamically. but where are: 
> 
> 1). The examples
> 2). The new syntax changes
> 3). The list of the 250 bugs that are fixed (or are we supposed to guess 
> which ones they 
> got?)
> 
> We should NOT have to find out about these features on someones blog. This 
> seems very 
> amateurish to me. 
> 
> 
> Bruce
>

  
  








-- 
Regards, 
Scott Barnes
http://www.mossyblog.com   

 

 __
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

RE: [flexcoders] Re: and I thought Adobe was a professional company. Whats going on with the upgrade

2007-01-07 Thread Mark R. Jonkman 
he documentation failed to find. The other issue I find
is that the examples often utilize the simpliest of cases. An example this
week I wanted an example on using a checkbox within a data grid but not one
of the examples in the datagrid documentation showed doing anything other
then using a datagrid with the standard item renders. A set of examples for
a datagrid (or other components) would be to show the simple example and a
more complex example that exercises the bulk of the functionality: using
different item renderers etc. Often mxml examples will be shown, but a
similar example using ActionScript only is omitted. It took me forever to
figure out how to bind data without using ActionScript vs MXML. 
 
I'm not trying to flame anyone or create a bigger issue but there are some
things about this updater and the documenation and downloads page that can
or could definitely invoke emotions similar to the subject line especially
if someone is in a hurry and wants the information to be there readily at
their fingertips.
 
Sincerely
Mark R. Jonkman


  _  

From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Mendels
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 6:37 AM
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Re: and I thought Adobe was a professional
company. Whats going on with the upgrade


Hello,
 
Have you tried the help system?  The new functionality is documented.
 
Regards
David

Re: [flexcoders] Re: and I thought Adobe was a professional company. Whats going on with the upgrade

2007-01-07 Thread Scott Barnes 

Agreed :)

( I got half-way down and went *noise..noise...noise...heh go
Claus...noise..noise*) :)




On 1/7/07, Tim Hoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


   As a personal request, might I ask that this thread be closed.  It's
very easy to take pot-shots from the sidelines.  But, from what I can tell,
most on this list are serious people that appreciate the hard work and
dedication that Adobe has provided.  Granted, Flex isn't mature yet as a
product.  However, a lot of people here have gone through the beta cycles
and come out just fine.  After all, progress isn't free.  It just takes a
little effort.

That being said, please let us not sink into the same type of discourse
that has plagued similar lists.  If you're not a fan of Adobe and Flex, than
this probably isn't the right place for you.  They have a customer service
department for that.  In the mean time, all of the positive minded
subscribers to this list have much more useful things to do with their time
than reading personal rants.  Sorry for the bluntness, but if you cant say
something nice.

-TH

--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, "boy_trike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Its great that there is an upgrade to 2.0.1 So where is the READ ME
telling us about the
> changes. (oh yea, you can find a web page that tells you that there is
something called
> modules and you can now change style sheets dynamically. but where are:
>
> 1). The examples
> 2). The new syntax changes
> 3). The list of the 250 bugs that are fixed (or are we supposed to guess
which ones they
> got?)
>
> We should NOT have to find out about these features on someones blog.
This seems very
> amateurish to me.
>
>
> Bruce
>







--
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.mossyblog.com

Re: [flexcoders] Re: and I thought Adobe was a professional company. Whats going on with the upgrade

2007-01-06 Thread greg h 

Claus,

My apologies if it appeared that I was casting aspersions on all open source
projects.  For the record, I am a huge fan of open source.

That said, as a developer and a businessman, open source's value proposition
generally does not include documentation and support at the level that
commercial software does.  (In fact, I am hard pressed to think of even one
open source project that provides doc support that is on par or superior to
Adobe's.)

Regarding the specs for SWF9, RTMP and AMF3, I do not code directly to those
APIs so I have never referenced those specs.  (Again, my thanks to the great
engineering teams at Adobe for giving me great rapid application development
tools that enable me to code to higher level APIs ;-)

I do see what you are saying.  The Flash Player "File Format Specification
FAQ " still says:
The most recent version of the specification covers version 8 of the Flash
file format (SWF)
and then goes on to say:
Adobe updates the Specification as soon as possible after each release.
Ok.  That was over six months ago now.

But again, I write to the Flex 2/AS APIs.  Personally, I do not require
those lower level API docs at this time.

What I would like is Netconnection Debugger updated for Flex 2/AS3/AMF3  :-)

best regards,

g

On 1/6/07, Claus Wahlers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



> Lastly, if you think there are issues with Flex 2.0.1 documentation,
> just try using an open source project sometime.  After using open
> source, I now justify all of my licensing costs for Adobe products on
> the value of their world class documentation alone ;-)

Uh-ooh.. Now you're being a bit harsh yourself, aren't you? ;) Open
source projects all have poor documentation?

While we're at it, where are the SWF9, RTMP and AMF3 specs?

I agree with you that the Flex 2 documentation is very good though.

Cheers,
Claus.

--
claus wahlers
côdeazur brasil
http://codeazur.com.br/
http://wahlers.com.br/claus/blog/

Re: [flexcoders] Re: and I thought Adobe was a professional company. Whats going on with the upgrade

2007-01-06 Thread Sreejith Unnikrishnan 
NOTE:  One place you will not yet find the 2.0.1 docs is ... 
livedocs.macromedia.com!  But hopefully LiveDocs will be getting the updated 
docs soon ;-)

I guess it is ... but the link is not published ... tried changing 2 to 201 and 
it worked ... maybe it is not ready for release  but anyways ...

http://livedocs.macromedia.com/flex/201/langref/index.html

Re: [flexcoders] Re: and I thought Adobe was a professional company. Whats going on with the upgrade

2007-01-06 Thread Sreejith Unnikrishnan 
NOTE:  One place you will not yet find the 2.0.1 docs is ... 
livedocs.macromedia.com!  But hopefully LiveDocs will be getting the updated 
docs soon ;-)

I guess it is ... but the link is not published ... tried changing 2 to 201 and 
it worked ... maybe it is not ready for release  but anyways ...

http://livedocs.macromedia.com/flex/201/langref/index.html

Re: [flexcoders] Re: and I thought Adobe was a professional company. Whats going on with the upgrade

2007-01-06 Thread Claus Wahlers 

> Lastly, if you think there are issues with Flex 2.0.1 documentation, 
> just try using an open source project sometime.  After using open 
> source, I now justify all of my licensing costs for Adobe products on 
> the value of their world class documentation alone ;-)

Uh-ooh.. Now you're being a bit harsh yourself, aren't you? ;) Open 
source projects all have poor documentation?

While we're at it, where are the SWF9, RTMP and AMF3 specs?

I agree with you that the Flex 2 documentation is very good though.

Cheers,
Claus.

-- 
claus wahlers
côdeazur brasil
http://codeazur.com.br/
http://wahlers.com.br/claus/blog/

Re: [flexcoders] Re: and I thought Adobe was a professional company. Whats going on with the upgrade

2007-01-06 Thread greg h 

Bruce,

As Dave Mendels points out, "The new functionality is documented".  Also as
Dave and Ben have pointed out, when you install FB2.0.1 you will find the
updated docs in "the help system".  You can also download PDFs of the
updated doc from the Flex 2 Documentation page:
http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/flex/

Regarding Modules, I have already printed out the 13 pages of Chapter 31
from the updated "Flex 2 Developer's Guide".  The chapter is on "Creating
Modular Applications".  For more good stuff on Modules, see Roger Gonzalez's
blog for his "slides and demos from MAX":
http://blogs.adobe.com/rgonzalez/2006/11/my_max_preso.html

For references on runtime stylesheets, how about you RTM and post back on
this thread what you find (or still don't find).

NOTE:  One place you will not yet find the 2.0.1 docs is ...
livedocs.macromedia.com!  But hopefully LiveDocs will be getting the updated
docs soon ;-)

Bruce, in the future if you think something is not right, could you please
first ask about it politely?  You are a great voice on this forum, so please
don't hold back.  But fwiw, the initial subject line that you chose was
heavy handed.  When you are frustrated, before broadcasting harsh
assumptions, please first test them a bit more thoughtfully.

Please also remember that there are real people, who work real hard (even
through the holidays), to bring you insanely great products and support.
And that when one of the customers that they work so hard to make all this
magic happen for doesn't initially get it, they can not but feel a little
hurt when overly harsh accusations are made in public forums.  Personally, I
think that this moment genuinely is a moment of great triumph for the Flex
team.

I want to thank Adobe, and all of the amazing people at Adobe for creating
and fine tuning these truly amazing tools that I know I am going to be
building solutions with for decades to come.  Regarding the 2.0.1 release, I
say BRAVO!!!

peace,

g

P.S.  The Flex team really is spending a lot of time listening to
customers.  After you have had a week or so to get oriented on the
2.0.1release, please do write up a bullet point list of your
suggestions of how
the release could have been even more amazing, and then share it with this
list or the members of the product team directly.  If you do, I am sure that
they will listen, take your thoughts into account, and will try use it to
improve everyone's experiences in future releases.

Lastly, if you think there are issues with Flex 2.0.1 documentation, just
try using an open source project sometime.  After using open source, I now
justify all of my licensing costs for Adobe products on the value of their
world class documentation alone ;-)




On 1/6/07, boy_trike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


And I stand PARTIALLY Corrected.  Yes there is the bug list and the list
of new features,
but while the COMPILER options show the syntax and examples, the two big
feature
enhancements runtime stylesheet and modules both have a sentence without
showing the
syntax and / or examples.  Where is one supposed to learn about them?

Bruce


--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, "João Fernandes"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Fixed bugs?
> http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/flex/2/
releasenotes_flex2_fds.html#fixedbugs
> http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/flex/2/
releasenotes_flex201_sdk.html#fixedbugs
>
> what's new (like new properties and stuff like that)?
> http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/flex/2/
releasenotes_flex201_sdk.html#whatsnew
> http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/flex/2/
releasenotes_flex2_fds.html#whatsnew
>
> all at adobe website...and not at someones blog...
>
> João Fernandes
>
> On 06/01/07, boy_trike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >   Its great that there is an upgrade to 2.0.1 So where is the READ ME
> > telling us about the
> > changes. (oh yea, you can find a web page that tells you that there is
> > something called
> > modules and you can now change style sheets dynamically. but where
are:
> >
> > 1). The examples
> > 2). The new syntax changes
> > 3). The list of the 250 bugs that are fixed (or are we supposed to
guess
> > which ones they
> > got?)
> >
> > We should NOT have to find out about these features on someones blog.
This
> > seems very
> > amateurish to me.
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> --
>
> João Fernandes

Re: [flexcoders] Re: and I thought Adobe was a professional company. Whats going on with the upgrade

2007-01-06 Thread Paul Andrews 
Patience is a virtue, Bruce. I'm sure they'll get there.

- Original Message - 
From: "boy_trike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 1:24 PM
Subject: [flexcoders] Re: and I thought Adobe was a professional company.
Whats going on with the upgrade


And I stand PARTIALLY Corrected.  Yes there is the bug list and the list of
new features,
but while the COMPILER options show the syntax and examples, the two big
feature
enhancements runtime stylesheet and modules both have a sentence without
showing the
syntax and / or examples.  Where is one supposed to learn about them?

Bruce


--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, "João Fernandes"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Fixed bugs?
> http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/flex/2/
releasenotes_flex2_fds.html#fixedbugs
> http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/flex/2/
releasenotes_flex201_sdk.html#fixedbugs
>
> what's new (like new properties and stuff like that)?
> http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/flex/2/
releasenotes_flex201_sdk.html#whatsnew
> http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/flex/2/
releasenotes_flex2_fds.html#whatsnew
>
> all at adobe website...and not at someones blog...
>
> João Fernandes
>
> On 06/01/07, boy_trike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >   Its great that there is an upgrade to 2.0.1 So where is the READ ME
> > telling us about the
> > changes. (oh yea, you can find a web page that tells you that there is
> > something called
> > modules and you can now change style sheets dynamically. but where are:
> >
> > 1). The examples
> > 2). The new syntax changes
> > 3). The list of the 250 bugs that are fixed (or are we supposed to guess
> > which ones they
> > got?)
> >
> > We should NOT have to find out about these features on someones blog.
This
> > seems very
> > amateurish to me.
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> -- 
>
> João Fernandes
>




--
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FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt
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RE: [flexcoders] Re: and I thought Adobe was a professional company. Whats going on with the upgrade

2007-01-06 Thread David Mendels 
Hello,
 
Have you tried the help system?  The new functionality is documented.
 
Regards
David



From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
boy_trike
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 8:24 AM
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [flexcoders] Re: and I thought Adobe was a professional company. Whats 
going on with the upgrade



And I stand PARTIALLY Corrected. Yes there is the bug list and the list of new 
features, 
but while the COMPILER options show the syntax and examples, the two big 
feature 
enhancements runtime stylesheet and modules both have a sentence without 
showing the 
syntax and / or examples. Where is one supposed to learn about them?

Bruce

--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com  , "João 
Fernandes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Fixed bugs?
> http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/flex/2/ 
>  
releasenotes_flex2_fds.html#fixedbugs
> http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/flex/2/ 
>  
releasenotes_flex201_sdk.html#fixedbugs
> 
> what's new (like new properties and stuff like that)?
> http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/flex/2/ 
>  
releasenotes_flex201_sdk.html#whatsnew
> http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/flex/2/ 
>  
releasenotes_flex2_fds.html#whatsnew
> 
> all at adobe website...and not at someones blog...
> 
> João Fernandes
> 
> On 06/01/07, boy_trike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Its great that there is an upgrade to 2.0.1 So where is the READ ME
> > telling us about the
> > changes. (oh yea, you can find a web page that tells you that there is
> > something called
> > modules and you can now change style sheets dynamically. but where are:
> >
> > 1). The examples
> > 2). The new syntax changes
> > 3). The list of the 250 bugs that are fixed (or are we supposed to guess
> > which ones they
> > got?)
> >
> > We should NOT have to find out about these features on someones blog. This
> > seems very
> > amateurish to me.
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> João Fernandes
>