Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some community comments (was: Scenery Corner)
Thorsten wrote: I also find it rather interesting to read something about the 'invisible' work behind the scenery - thank you for letting us know. It's sometimes difficult to appreciate the work that is not directly seen, and it helps a lot if you tell us. Thanks for the hard work. However, there is one sentence in your descriptions which I did not like, because it expresses a sentiment which I do not like at all about the Flightgear community. Please let me take the time to explain. The sentence I mean is This sort of Scenery development is substantially different from craving for aaah's and oooh's on The Forum after you successfully managed to follow an elaborate and nicely illustrated recipe on how to build FlightGear Terrain. I don't know for a fact what you want to imply, but it reminds me of something for example Vivian expressed a while ago with regard to judging cockpits by visual detail. Vivian wrote: I would suggest that as such it has little value for a Flight Sim such as ours which values accuracy above all else. Bit of fun for the forum though. Let me now speak more to the audience at large, rather than to Martin personally... In both statements I read the following ideas (I don't know if you literally meant that - but that's what came across) * while the mailinglist is for real work, the forum is just for playing around * consequently, while the forum can be impressed by cheap tricks and eye candy, the 'real' development community cares about more important things such as accuracy Let me take a virtual needle and deflate the claims a bit. Until recently, Flightgear's idea of a weather change was that pressure, wind and visibility instantly jump from one value to another. Hardly what I would call accuracy. Doing it differently by means of an interpolation isn't even technically complicated (my 1/d weighted routine was 40 lines or so) or would require terrible computing power - there was just nobody sufficiently interested before 2.0.0 came out. Or, as Emmanuel Baranger has pointed out repeatedly, the fact the JSBSim planes can frequently land on water can hardly be called accurate. I could go on, but I think my point is clear - the Flightgear development community doesn't value accuracy as such, but each of you has some notion of where he would like to have more accuracy, and each of you has areas where he doesn't care about increased accuracy (for me, something like convective clouds behaving differently over water than over land is terribly important - having learned to fly gliders, I actually make use of the clues provided by the clouds... On the other hand, instruments not being precisely where they are in the original is not so important to me). So, by what argument can Vivian really claim that she values accuracy higher than I do, when she has been fine with throwing the physics of convective clouds out? I just can't see that any notion of accuracy is better than the other, and I think it's just plain wrong to think that way that one group of people likes accuracy and the other eye candy - visual detail is just another aspect of accuracy. So instead of alienating people who care about modelling, texturing, reflection shaders for exterior models and such things by referring to all that as 'fun for the forum', I think you'd be much better off by encouraging these people to improve the aspects they are interested in and kindly teaching them to value also the aspects which are important to you personally. Frankly, the elitist attitude expressed in such sentences bothers me. I feel much more welcome in the forum - and as a result I usually write much more of my observations, progress reports and ideas in the forum. I also usually get as good response as I get here. So if you only read the list, there's lots of info which you're missing. Doesn't have to bother anyone here - maybe it's just not interesting to you personally. But I think it's be way more useful to encourage people to help (there's plenty to do after all) than to regard them all as not seriously enough. So, now what happens - a few folks get involved, follow the elaborate and nicely illustrate recipe how to do things and actually produce scenery - to hear that what they do is just 'craving for aaah's and oooh's on The Forum', as opposed to 'the real thing'. Well - just how charming and encouraging is that? I happen to enjoy the custom France, custom Ireland and custom Eastern Europe sceneries. For me, an existing imperfect scenery is worth more than a non-existing perfect scenery which I may be able to use in the future. As far as I am concerned, the involved parties have earned their 'aahs and oohs' (so has Martin). So, I would prefer much if we could get around to respecting the work of others more - even if it's not what we are personally most interested. And to kindly teaching each other to
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some community comments
Martin: This is a rather incomplete and therefore, at least to my opinion, pretty unfortunate and unsuitable representation of a certain status quo. It wasn't meant to be a representation of any status quo - it is what you (among others) have been communicating (at least to me, given private feedback I have received off the list also to others) as your picture of the status quo. If that's not what you meant to communicate, that's good - then you know that you can be misunderstood - that's what feedback is for. [...] Still, none of the third party sceneries directly help the goal of adding data to the server or helping fix TerraGear to push out a new World Scenery package [...] Well said ! Right. Now - how to get to the desired outcome? That's what my comment is all about. You are experienced in scenery development. You are quite probably right in assuming that your way of doing things is better than what others come up. Unfortunately, the human mind isn't structured so that people readily accept that and ask you to assign tasks to them. My experience is that newcomers to a project/field/... need to make their own experiments and mistakes first. That's called learning. There's nothing gained by continuously pointing out that they are new, that their work isn't up to existing standards and that they don't do it right. They'll find out eventually by themselves, given time. Speaking from my own experience in making weather - I had to experiment with clouds rotated with Nasal scripts initially. I heard a (subjective) million times that it runs too slow. I knew that, it didn't help me, and I knew I would improve the performance once I was sure what sort of transformation I wanted. What I needed was some encouragement to go on to get me over the frustration of things not working. In the end I settled on (almost) the same technique Stuart already had implemented. Why? Because it worked best. So, could I not have done it 'right' from the start based on Stuart's work? No - because I needed to understand the problem, not just use something I don't understand. And my experience is that after having made their own independent work, people are more ready to collaborate in projects. Before, it would be a one-sided thing - a teacher-student relation - one person knows what is to be done and commands, the other follows the instructions. After some independent work, it becomes more of a collaboration and things get discussed - even if 90% of the input are coming from one party and 10% of the other. But that sort of collaboration is hardly possible if you have been continuously blasting the others as not doing things right before. That sort of collaboration is actually more tedious for me than telling a student what to do. But it's also more fruitful in the long run. The alternative is always a lone wolf approach to your project - which has the advantage that you don't have to compromise on anything. In my experience, you can't expect a collaborative effort to work and expect people to accept that you are right in what you say at the same time (even if you are right - there is psychology as well in a collaboration...). Regardless of what you may think about other people's work, the forum (and regardless of what may or may not even be factually true) - I just fail to see any gain for Flightgear by speaking bad about the forum or other people's work without need. Instead, having to assemble Scenery from a lot of different places if you're after a bigger chunk, especially if these chunks don't fit together properly, doesn't attract everyone. Neither does the public impression of why the hell does each of these fellows play in everyone's private sandboxes instead of collaborating on fixing their most pressing issues together. Yes - so what's wrong about convincing people rather than criticizing them which apparently doesn't seem to get a collaboration done (other than that convincing is usually more complicated, needs some empathy and more time)? Stuart: Sorry to be a pedant, but this isn't quite true. I implemented METAR weather interpolation prior to 2.0.0 in August 2007 using X-values. My apologies for missing that. My excuse is that none of the release binaries I have (0.9.1, 1.9.1 and 2.0.0) shows such behaviour. Vivian: Some more accuracy would be appreciated from you: Vivian is man's name, and a few seconds checking would have told you that this is indeed the case. Well - then I've rather made a fool of myself with regard to the name... I am very sorry. I just looked it up - it really is ambiguous: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivian_(name) As for misrepresenting your views - that's not what I have been trying to do. I have been trying to explain how your views and comments may come across to others, not trying to claim that this is how you think (which I don't know). I'm sure you will agree peer review is not always a pleasant experience, perhaps this colours your view of this
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New release
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:12 AM, John Denker j...@av8n.com wrote: It may not be an entirely good idea to release a FlightGear version without any usable ATIS. It appears that ATC/atis.cxx is a stub. It contains only one line of code. Meanwhile there is ye olde ATCDCL/atis.cxx, which contains code but is deprecated and is not compiled in the standard configuration. Hi John, At the moment, the spoken ATIS makes little sense anyway since the phaseology was corrected a while ago but the extra words were not recorded. Maybe if you have a text-to-speech system set up it works properly, but I assume most people downloading the new release will not have that setup by default. I am hoping to record the extra words next week during the holiday and port the ATIS over to Durk's new ATC/AI system. I don't know exactly when the release is due, so I don't know if it will get done in time. Cheers - Dave -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] EzineArticles.com
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Chris Wilkinson blobster...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Hi there, I reported author 'Dan H Freeman' to that website as being misleading about his software and running a scam, explaining the situation with FlightGear and ProFlightSim. They asked if I was a 'representative' of FlightGear. I replied that I was a user of the software, but not deeply involved in the development/community as such. They then suggested that if the creators/operators of flightgear would like to contact them then please go ahead. So if anyone more entrenched in the development of fg would like to take up this offer to communicate with EzineArticles, regarding Dan H Freeman and his little enterprise, please let me know. I will forward the contact email address. The goal I suggested to EzineArticles would be to remove his articles from the site, due to the misleading nature of his business. I informed them of reports from people being ripped off by the scam, and about the use of mis-appropriated historical names on the websites and other immoral tactics being used, including the registration of the 'www.flightgear.us' domain. I was trying to figure out What's in it for them?. Having a read of the article the link below, it reads well and looks balanced until you get to the bottom of the page. The last few paragraphs says: From http://ezinearticles.com/?Is-The-F/A-22-Raptor-The-Best-Figher-Jet-In-2011?id=5345920 Download the *MOST REALISTIC* airplane flight simulator ever created for home users. Click the link to visit ProFlightSimulator below: - airplane games Experience real life flying with accurate worldwide scenery based on actual terrian with over 20,000 real airports and 120 different planes. Its the next best thing to being up there! So they get a better page ranking on Google due to the links back to the proflightsimulator. Grrr. Note: Terrian is their typing mistake. lol Regards George -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some community comments (was: Scenery Corner)
Sticking my 2 cents in here , i cant take anything on the forum too seriously , probably just from bad forum experiences overall. The mailing list was always the place I looked for development news , but like Vivian mentioned , that doesn't seem to happen much since the move to Git . Would be nice to see the community back at a central location again , and less divided ;).Meanwhile I'll continue tinkering still think Flightgear is the best open source project. Merry Christmas all . Syd -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] EzineArticles.com
George On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Chris Wilkinson blobster...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Hi there, I reported author 'Dan H Freeman' to that website as being misleading about his software and running a scam, explaining the situation with FlightGear and ProFlightSim. They asked if I was a 'representative' of FlightGear. I replied that I was a user of the software, but not deeply involved in the development/community as such. They then suggested that if the creators/operators of flightgear would like to contact them then please go ahead. So if anyone more entrenched in the development of fg would like to take up this offer to communicate with EzineArticles, regarding Dan H Freeman and his little enterprise, please let me know. I will forward the contact email address. The goal I suggested to EzineArticles would be to remove his articles from the site, due to the misleading nature of his business. I informed them of reports from people being ripped off by the scam, and about the use of mis-appropriated historical names on the websites and other immoral tactics being used, including the registration of the 'www.flightgear.us' domain. I was trying to figure out What's in it for them?. Having a read of the article the link below, it reads well and looks balanced until you get to the bottom of the page. The last few paragraphs says: From http://ezinearticles.com/?Is-The-F/A-22-Raptor-The-Best-Figher-Jet- In-2011?id=5345920 Download the *MOST REALISTIC* airplane flight simulator ever created for home users. Click the link to visit ProFlightSimulator below: - airplane games Experience real life flying with accurate worldwide scenery based on actual terrian with over 20,000 real airports and 120 different planes. Its the next best thing to being up there! So they get a better page ranking on Google due to the links back to the proflightsimulator. Grrr. Note: Terrian is their typing mistake. lol All the ezinearticles looklike a scam to me. I note an Affiliates program - sound familiar? Dan H Freeman's articles are riddled with spelling mistakes and inaccuracies try this one: P51 - Infact, it is said that nearly 5 pilots earned the name Aces after killing enemies flying this plane. 4.9 pilots perhaps? Vivian -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some community comments
[...] Still, none of the third party sceneries directly help the goal of adding data to the server or helping fix TerraGear to push out a new World Scenery package [...] I think the key word here is directly. No, they may not, even cannot, directly contribute land cover to the data server...and why should they need to anyway? In almost every case everyone has access to that same data and if there is no conflicting license issues (and there are) then it can/should already be in the global db by those maintaining it. However, I believe these projects do contribute to the community and the project by showing people flightgear is capable of having nice looking and accurate base scenery, by taking the time to generate that scenery and provide it freely to everyone for use, and also inspiring further scenery work in that area that does make it into the global scenery db. --- --- Maybe it's not every ones cup of tea, not aligned exactly with their goals or wishesbut I know for a fact a very large number in the community greatly enjoy and appreciate these third party scenery projects. If you don't like it, don't use it, but there is no need for anyone to be a complete douche bag trolling the list critizing other peoples hard work and personal projects. Should we start pissing on third party aircraft as well? Want to piss on Yuriks hard work, or maybe Garys, since the Tu154b and Constellation and others are not in the git package, maybe not licensed to match the git package, and/or just plain better than what's in the git package? There are reasons people may choose to develop as a third party, whether it be scenery, aircraft, or even code. Who are you to criticize them, or make false accusations about how they act, why they do it, or to what level of quality they do it? I have a goal with my own third party Innsbruck scenery project, and have been very open about that goal, the methods and tools I'm using and developing to achieve it, and why I'm doing things the way I'm doing them. If you don't like it, don't use it, no one is forcing you to use it or any other third party project. To criticize other peoples work just because they don't align exactly with your vision, your project, or whatever your real personal reasons..is just petty and plain old fashioned douche baggerygrow up. cheers --Jacob -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some community comments
I appreciate the ephithet being hurled in my direction, especially because all we are pointing out is that CORINE data should eventually be part of the land cover database anyways, which may deprecate some (but not necessarily all) of the third-party scenery projects currently being produced, Cheers John -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] git of fgdata today
FGDATA site seems to be down or have problems. I have tried about 5 times over time to get fgdata with the same error. -- 73 de Donn Washburn 307 Savoy Street Email: n5...@comcast.net Sugar Land, TX 77478 LL# 1.281.242.3256 Ham Callsign N5XWB HAMs : n5...@arrl.net VoIP via Gizmo: bmw_87kbike / via Skype: n5xwbg BMW MOA #: 4146 - Ambassador http://counter.li.org #279316 Erro message gitorious.org[0: 63.219.151.16]: errno=Connection timed out -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some community comments
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:29 PM, J. Holden stattosoftw...@yahoo.com wrote: I appreciate the ephithet being hurled in my direction, especially because all we are pointing out is that CORINE data should eventually be part of the land cover database anyways, which may deprecate some (but not necessarily all) of the third-party scenery projects currently being produced, Cheers John Exactly. If a project is just terrain generated using whatever data, and that data becomes part of the official DB then that project will have served its purpose and can fade away. In the mean time, while we wait for that day, those projects are very well accepted by the community at large, make flightgear look good, generate interest flightgear and in developing those areas furtherit's a good thing. When the time comes those projects become unnecessary I think you'll find most/all the creators of that scenery will probably happy with that fact...as processing, generating, and distributing very large sets of terrain is quite time consuming and not all that trivial. cheers --Jacob -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] git of fgdata today
On 12/23/2010 12:24 PM, Gijs de Rooy wrote: FGDATA site seems to be down or have problems. I have tried about 5 times over time to get fgdata with the same error. Gitorious was down since earlier today. However, it appears to be up again now. You can still obtain fgdata from the mapserver clone though, if Gitorious still doesn't work: http://mapserver.flightgear.org/git/?p=fgdata;a=summary Cheers, Gijs Thanks that seems to be working. It even seems faster -- 73 de Donn Washburn 307 Savoy Street Email: n5...@comcast.net Sugar Land, TX 77478 LL# 1.281.242.3256 Ham Callsign N5XWB HAMs : n5...@arrl.net VoIP via Gizmo: bmw_87kbike / via Skype: n5xwbg BMW MOA #: 4146 - Ambassador http://counter.li.org #279316 -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Do Shader animations support Conditions?
I was attempting to install a few shaders, based on internal or external view, but I have not been able to make it work. Can someone let me know if you can use a condition in a shader animation ? Thanks, Peter -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] git of fgdata today
Am 23.12.10 19:35, schrieb Donn Washburn: On 12/23/2010 12:24 PM, Gijs de Rooy wrote: FGDATA site seems to be down or have problems. I have tried about 5 times over time to get fgdata with the same error. Gitorious was down since earlier today. However, it appears to be up again now. You can still obtain fgdata from the mapserver clone though, if Gitorious still doesn't work: http://mapserver.flightgear.org/git/?p=fgdata;a=summary Cheers, Gijs Thanks that seems to be working. It even seems faster I saw many reports that mapserver is a faster than gitorious. Thanks, Martin! Torsten (also bmw biker ;-) -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] git of fgdata today
On 12/23/2010 01:14 PM, Torsten Dreyer wrote: Am 23.12.10 19:35, schrieb Donn Washburn: On 12/23/2010 12:24 PM, Gijs de Rooy wrote: FGDATA site seems to be down or have problems. I have tried about 5 times over time to get fgdata with the same error. Gitorious was down since earlier today. However, it appears to be up again now. You can still obtain fgdata from the mapserver clone though, if Gitorious still doesn't work: http://mapserver.flightgear.org/git/?p=fgdata;a=summary Cheers, Gijs Thanks that seems to be working. It even seems faster Now that I have the most recent fgdata I am still seeing an error. I have no clue on this error. just using the default - ./fgfs enter I get this error. Base package check failed ... Found version [none] at: @PKGLIBDIR Please upgrade to version: 2.0.0 I have fgdata in a directory /usr/share/flightgear.Anyone have clue. I have about every known SVN/GIT version of fgfs, fgdata, plib, openGL, freeglut, freealut, OSG and simgear. I am also running NV.run 07 Savoy Street Email: n5...@comcast.net Sugar Land, TX 77478 LL# 1.281.242.3256 Ham Callsign N5XWB HAMs : n5...@arrl.net VoIP via Gizmo: bmw_87kbike / via Skype: n5xwbg BMW MOA #: 4146 - Ambassador http://counter.li.org #279316 -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] git of fgdata today
On 12/23/2010 01:14 PM, Torsten Dreyer wrote: Am 23.12.10 19:35, schrieb Donn Washburn: On 12/23/2010 12:24 PM, Gijs de Rooy wrote: FGDATA site seems to be down or have problems. I have tried about 5 times over time to get fgdata with the same error. Gitorious was down since earlier today. However, it appears to be up again now. You can still obtain fgdata from the mapserver clone though, if Gitorious still doesn't work: http://mapserver.flightgear.org/git/?p=fgdata;a=summary Cheers, Gijs Thanks that seems to be working. It even seems faster I saw many reports that mapserver is a faster than gitorious. Thanks, Martin! Torsten (also bmw biker ;-) I BMW Rider; Me Also for over 30 years a 300,000 miles until recently. Still have the 1987 K100LT In great shape -- 73 de Donn Washburn 307 Savoy Street Email: n5...@comcast.net Sugar Land, TX 77478 LL# 1.281.242.3256 Ham Callsign N5XWB HAMs : n5...@arrl.net VoIP via Gizmo: bmw_87kbike / via Skype: n5xwbg BMW MOA #: 4146 - Ambassador http://counter.li.org #279316 -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] git of fgdata today
just using the default - ./fgfs enter I get this error. Base package check failed ... Found version [none] at: @PKGLIBDIR Please upgrade to version: 2.0.0 You need to tell FG where your data directory is. Do that with --fg-root=/usr/share/flightgear in your commandline, or set FG_ROOT in your .fgfsrc file Cheers, Gijs -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] git of fgdata today
Torsten Dreyer wrote: I saw many reports that mapserver is a faster than gitorious. Thanks, Thanks to our sponsor (- Telascience) ! Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New release
On 12/23/2010 05:33 AM, Dave L wrote: At the moment, the spoken ATIS makes little sense anyway since the phaseology was corrected a while ago but the extra words were not recorded. Well, actually the needed words are available. Long ago I wrote a script to run the words through the festival synthesizer, all in a batch, to produce the .wav data and .vce index. To work properly, atis.cxx needs not only the standard ATIS phraseology but also the /names/ of the ATIS/AWOS sites (usually but not necessarily airports). If you include the names of all US airports, the .vce file has more than 2300 entries and the .wav file is more than 30 megabytes. One begins to wonder whether some of the place-names should be loaded on a tile-by-tile basis (like scenery) rather than in one big chunk. Maybe if you have a text-to-speech system set up it works properly, but I assume most people downloading the new release will not have that setup by default. Agreed. Getting TTS to work live (as opposed to batch) is way more trouble than ordinary users are willing to put up with. I am hoping to record the extra words next week during the holiday I can send you the words and/or the script I used to synthesize them. and port the ATIS over to Durk's new ATC/AI system. That would be a Good Thing. Right now ATC/trafficcontrol.cxx contains about 1000 lines of code, whereas ATC/atis.cxx contains only 1 line of code (and no real functionality). There is a set of users for which the priorities are reversed, in the sense that ATIS/AWOS is 1000 times more important than anything trafficcontrol.cxx is going to say. As you know, there are no currency requirements for listening to ATCT controllers ... whereas there are important currency requirements for instrument approaches, and (with or without a Tower) it is hard to shoot the approach without ATIS information such as weather, altimeter, approach-in-use, et cetera. == Constructive suggestion: If you're going to port something, you might as well start from http://gitorious.org/~jsd/fg/sport-model/commits/atis It contains some minor fixes (to get rid of warnings etc.) and also splits the vocabulary words into a file of their own, to make it easier on the guy who === AFAICT ./configure --enable-atcdcl has never done anything useful. If it is enabled, the code is compiled and linked in ... but not called. That means that in current versions of FGFS, the ATIS feature is really quite broken (not just disabled). Some sort of fix (or port) would be a significant improvement. -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New release
On Thursday 23 December 2010 21:12:16 John Denker wrote: Maybe if you have a text-to-speech system set up it works properly, but I assume most people downloading the new release will not have that setup by default. Agreed. Getting TTS to work live (as opposed to batch) is way more trouble than ordinary users are willing to put up with. Makes me wonder how difficult it would be to fully integrate festival into FlightGear. Not using some external program, but linking the library and shipping appropriate voice files. Stefan -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] git version of today
Hey Group; I have had a problem mentioned today concerning PKGGLIBDIR. This was from a effort with cmake and ccmake. fgfs compiled completely but lacking a make check function I directly installed it. Tried it and got Base package check failed ... Found version [none] at: @PKGLIBDIR Please upgrade to version: 2.0.0. The problem was with fgfs and not with the fgdata. So I thought I would try a configure and make version. I like autoconf and automake much better because it spotted my earlier problem. It is in src/Main of todays git version and was not caught by cmake which went to 100% Enclosed is the make found error.cannot find -lsgephem make[1]: Entering directory `/mnt/sdb5/archive/fgfs/flightgear/src/Main' g++ -DPKGLIBDIR=\/usr/share/flightgear\ -g -O2 -Wall -D_REENTRANT -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -o fgfs bootstrap.o libMain.a ../../src/Aircraft/libAircraft.a ../../src/ATCDCL/libATCDCL.a ../../src/Cockpit/libCockpit.a ../../src/Cockpit/built_in/libBuilt_in.a ../../src/Network/libNetwork.a ../../src/FDM/libFlight.a ../../src/FDM/ExternalNet/libExternalNet.a ../../src/FDM/ExternalPipe/libExternalPipe.a ../../src/FDM/JSBSim/libJSBSim.a ../../src/FDM/JSBSim/initialization/libInit.a ../../src/FDM/JSBSim/models/libModels.a ../../src/FDM/JSBSim/models/flight_control/libFlightControl.a ../../src/FDM/JSBSim/models/atmosphere/libAtmosphere.a ../../src/FDM/JSBSim/models/propulsion/libPropulsion.a ../../src/FDM/JSBSim/input_output/libInputOutput.a ../../src/FDM/JSBSim/math/libMath.a ../../src/FDM/YASim/libYASim.a ../../src/FDM/LaRCsim/libLaRCsim.a ../../src/FDM/UIUCModel/libUIUCModel.a ../../src/FDM/SP/libSPFDM.a ../../src/GUI/libGUI.a ../../src/Autopilot/libAutopilot.a ../../src/Input/libInput.a ../../src/Instrumentation/KLN89/libKLN89.a ../../src/Instrumentation/libInstrumentation.a ../../src/Instrumentation/HUD/libHUD.a ../../src/Model/libModel.a ../../src/Navaids/libNavaids.a ../../src/Scenery/libScenery.a ../../src/Scripting/libScripting.a ../../src/Sound/libSound.a ../../src/Airports/libAirports.a ../../src/MultiPlayer/libMultiPlayer.a ../../src/AIModel/libAIModel.a ../../src/ATC/libATC.a ../../src/Systems/libSystems.a ../../src/Time/libTime.a ../../src/Traffic/libTraffic.a ../../src/Environment/libEnvironment.a -lsgroute -lsgsky -lsgsound -lsgephem -lsgtgdb -lsgmodel -lsgbvh -lsgmaterial -lsgutil -lsgtiming -lsgio -lsgscreen -lsgmath -lsgbucket -lsgprops -lsgdebug -lsgmagvar -lsgmisc -lsgnasal -lsgxml -lsgsound -lsgserial -lsgstructure -lsgenvironment -lplibpuaux -lplibpu -lplibfnt -lplibjs -lplibsg -lplibul -lpthread -lz -lglut -lGLU -lGL -lXmu -lXt -lSM -lICE -lXi -lXext -lX11 -lrt -ldl -lm -lalut -lopenal -lrt -ldl -lm -lpthread -losgFX -losgParticle -losgSim -losgViewer -losgGA -losgText -losgDB -losgUtil -losg -lOpenThreads /usr/lib/gcc/i586-suse-linux/4.5/../../../../i586-suse-linux/bin/ld: cannot find -lsgephem collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[1]: *** [fgfs] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/mnt/sdb5/archive/fgfs/flightgear/src/Main' make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 -- 73 de Donn Washburn 307 Savoy Street Email: n5...@comcast.net Sugar Land, TX 77478 LL# 1.281.242.3256 Ham Callsign N5XWB HAMs : n5...@arrl.net VoIP via Gizmo: bmw_87kbike / via Skype: n5xwbg BMW MOA #: 4146 - Ambassador http://counter.li.org #279316 -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some community comments
Adrian Musceac wrote: I have only the highest expectations from your project, however in order to get many people involved and avoiding the same lone wolf approach, You're having a valid point here. Anyhow, the lone wolf is in no way an aproach but instead much better charaterized as sort of an unhappy result. Fortunately I'm not _that_ lonesome here: Ralf Gerlich has contributed a lot of work for improving the TerraGear-toolchain which he picked up from Curt and others, Fred Bouvier took care of making the beast run on Windows, John Holden, Christian Schmitt and others are contributing content and I feel like I'm still mostly learning along my way while exploring different tools and techniques. Yet there's still a lot of opportunities to contribute in almost every aspect - just think of the MapServer frontpage which is most certainly the ugliest page in FlightGear land. Having an attractive page, maybe a common layout together with the Scenemodels site, including a blog, a 3D model submission syntax- and rule-checker and other nifty tools would certainly be pretty beneficial to the common effort. There are many things you could think of wrt. supporting collaborative Scenery development Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New release
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:12 PM, John Denker wrote: snip To work properly, atis.cxx needs not only the standard ATIS phraseology but also the /names/ of the ATIS/AWOS sites (usually but not necessarily airports). If you include the names of all US airports, the .vce file has more than 2300 entries and the .wav file is more than 30 megabytes. One begins to wonder whether some of the place-names should be loaded on a tile-by-tile basis (like scenery) rather than in one big chunk. Yes, I think this is the way to go in the future, also the phraseology can be refined per geographical area. However, for now I'll just bung in the default file for the release. I can either do the current scheme of all the base package airports with ATIS + a selection of very major ones, or all the US ones with ATIS. Is 30 MB too much to add to FG's memory requirement in one hit? snip I am hoping to record the extra words next week during the holiday I can send you the words and/or the script I used to synthesize them. If you can email me the words and script that would be great. It took quite a long time to index all the words when I did the original recording - this should be a lot quicker. snip As you know, there are no currency requirements for listening to ATCT controllers ... whereas there are important currency requirements for instrument approaches, and (with or without a Tower) it is hard to shoot the approach without ATIS information such as weather, altimeter, approach-in-use, et cetera. Agreed, with the real weather ATIS is fairly essential! Constructive suggestion: If you're going to port something, you might as well start from http://gitorious.org/~jsd/fg/sport-model/commits/atishttp://gitorious.org/%7Ejsd/fg/sport-model/commits/atis OK, will take a look, thanks. Cheers - Dave -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some community comments
Martin Spott wrote: There are many things you could think of wrt. supporting collaborative Scenery development like on-the-fly map-rendering of landcover-submissions (so people can check how their submission is going to be recived), working towards more different textures to serve various 'new' land cover types (http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/LandcoverDB_CS_Detail), working towards a clever texture selecion schema/algorithm depending on much more seasonal and regional environment settings compared to the current, rather simple summer/winter schema, Just a quick listing from the top of my head at 01:50 AM after a long workday, the number of opportunities is almost indefinite, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
