Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 00:03:20 +0100, ThorstenB wrote in message aanlktikpx4+f=+esonhdyuzegluthey5tn1ywo8oj...@mail.gmail.com: If you refer to the fps _before_ the splash screen is dropped, then this is normal. So far, we were burning CPU time at 100fps while the splash screen was active. This is now explicitly limited to 2 fps to give more CPU time to the loader threads. This results in a considerable loading speed-up for single core CPUs. And rendering a splash screen at 100fps didn't really help too much anyway - except for the dramatic fps rate display. ..maybe either hide the fps display or use it to tell what's going on until the splash screen events are all done? Either approach would keep us from turning away the 2 fps in a Flight Sim??? Forget it!!!-crowd. ..the splash screen events, _are_ actually the first few impressions new people get, e.g. reviewers doing reviews. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..maybe either hide the fps display or use it to tell what's going on until the splash screen events are all done? Right. Accidentally that's exactly what I looked into after yesterday's discussion. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
On 21 Nov 2010, at 11:37, Heiko Schulz wrote: The problem isn't while the splash screen- it occurs for several seconds after splash screen dissapeared- this will be the problem. After that fps is stable, and really good ( I'm just flying above the alps, visibility 71km, all shaders incl. contrails enabeld- stable fps of 31!). But maybe the first seconds will prevent us from new users? This must be machine dependent for sure - I see no difference in FPS while the additional tiles load, compared to 'normal' FPS. Probably depends on many factors, especially OS threading - and my machine is CPU-strong and GPU-weak, compared to many, I think. We can of course make this a config option to keep the splash screen up - but to me the new behaviour is exactly what every other FlightSim has always done - and I've expected the some erratic frame-rates for the first 10-20 seconds after loading. It's more the compensated before, by being able to start setting cockpit switches, lights, powering up systems, while the scenery loads. James -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Heiko Schulz wrote: The problem isn't while the splash screen- it occurs for several seconds after splash screen dissapeared- this will be the problem. Yes, that is understood. Still, at least showing 1-2fps in the splash screen phase can be avoided, since this makes little sense and we _explicitly_ limit fps there. The problem with the scenery loader influencing the sim rate (being after start-up or during run-time) is another issue - a more fundamental one - and definitely not new. I also see an influence here, but not so severe, though my machine is older (and still a single core without hyper-threading...). And as James pointed out, this will heavily depend on system performance (especially core count and cache size). And, not sure, it may also depend on the OSG version. And I think there is also an environment option to influence the thread priority of the OSG loader - I'll see what can be done there. And there are more performance issues. At FSweekend we even saw the 24-core-12GB-RAM-Xeon-server-beast had brief hick-ups whenever crossing scenery areas (noticable moments with a freezing display 1 second). I think Torsten and Martin did some tests about this. After that fps is stable, and really good ( I'm just flying above the alps, visibility 71km, all shaders incl. contrails enabeld- stable fps of 31!). And that is welcome news... :) cheers, Thorsten -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 11:37:08 + (GMT), Heiko wrote in message 749593.33206...@web29520.mail.ird.yahoo.com: But maybe the first seconds will prevent us from new users? ..only a few odd Wintendo game review writers on tight deadlines, I guess, so I suspect it is worth fixing, say with e.g. a fps display loading message. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
On 11/21/2010 02:59 AM, Heiko Schulz wrote: Hi, But I must admit- when the fps are stable, and tiles are loaded- perfomance is so much better! Wow! With all shaders enabled! www.hoerbird.net/fgfs-screen-069.png www.hoerbird.net/fgfs-screen-070.png www.hoerbird.net/fgfs-screen-071.png Hello. Just for the record - it looks (on your screenshots) like the plane is transparent from the inside. Just look at the first and the last picture. You can see the ground through windows. Is it a (known) bug? Kind regards, -- Lech Karol Pawłaszek ike You will never see me fall from grace [KoRn] -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
Hi, Hello. Just for the record - it looks (on your screenshots) like the plane is transparent from the inside. Just look at the first and the last picture. You can see the ground through windows. Is it a (known) bug? Kind regards, if you look closer you will see that it is the interior together with a landscape reflecting in the windows. Maybe the reflection on the windows is too strong, and the interior isn't shaded yet. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
Hi, Getting the splash screen down faster on startup and re-position is a huge win here - excellent. James But needs more time to get a stable and usuable fps...about 30seconds here with latest GIT from today. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Heiko Schulz aeitsch...@yahoo.de wrote: But needs more time to get a stable and usuable fps...about 30seconds here with latest GIT from today. Right, the splash screen is down early now, while FG is still busy loading more distant scenery areas. Loading in the background may affect fps - however this is the same effect as experienced during a flight whenever a scenery area is crossed - since this triggers the same loading process in the background. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
Hi, Right, the splash screen is down early now, while FG is still busy loading more distant scenery areas. Loading in the background may affect fps - however this is the same effect as experienced during a flight whenever a scenery area is crossed - since this triggers the same loading process in the background. Not yet completly tested, but I notice the first 30 seconds of startup fps of 1-2. Imagine the same fps when loading new tiles would make FGFS pretty unusuable for me -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 11:48 PM, Heiko Schulz wrote: Not yet completly tested, but I notice the first 30 seconds of startup fps of 1-2. Imagine the same fps when loading new tiles would make FGFS pretty unusuable for me If you refer to the fps _before_ the splash screen is dropped, then this is normal. So far, we were burning CPU time at 100fps while the splash screen was active. This is now explicitly limited to 2 fps to give more CPU time to the loader threads. This results in a considerable loading speed-up for single core CPUs. And rendering a splash screen at 100fps didn't really help too much anyway - except for the dramatic fps rate display. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
Hi, If you refer to the fps _before_ the splash screen is dropped, then this is normal. I refer on the first 30 sec after the splash_screen is dropped, and aircraft and scenery etc. appears HHS -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
Hi, But I must admit- when the fps are stable, and tiles are loaded- perfomance is so much better! Wow! With all shaders enabled! www.hoerbird.net/fgfs-screen-069.png www.hoerbird.net/fgfs-screen-070.png www.hoerbird.net/fgfs-screen-071.png Thanks for this improvement! Cheers HHS -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
Another heads up: I've pushed an update for scenery tile management. It's a follow-up to the recent patch fixing random empty scenery patches, providing some more improvements: * Priorities for tile loading. Tiles are now loaded in innermost to outermost order. Means a better optical effect when switching view position or moving to a new scenery area. No more temporary scenery gaps/holes caused by a random loading order. * Increasing visibility (weather change) may now cause additional tiles to be loaded. So far, the view position had to be switched or the plane needed to move to a new area before an increased visibility could take full effect. * Start-up/relocation no longer waits for all tiles to be loaded. The splash screen is already dropped now once the innermost scenery is available. This helps reducing start-up delays when using high visibility levels at start-up(/reposition). * And connected to the latter: The visibility level given on the command-line is immediately effective now. So far, this also required switching view position/moving to another area first. Thanks to kantooon for this patch. * And last but not least: AI planes/groundcache/... no longer (ab)use the tile manager interface by temporarily switching the view position. The tile manager is now aware of all tile requests at the same time - which makes the new loading priorities really work. All new bugs are mine, so let me know if you noticed anything was broken now. Some improvements mainly show when using higher visibilities. But remember: RAM requirements haven't changed with this update. The visibility (distance) still has a massive impact on the number of loaded scenery tiles and RAM required (quadratic, of course...). And yes, this is another area for future improvement... cheers, Thorsten -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
Hi, All new bugs are mine, so let me know if you noticed anything was broken now. Some improvements mainly show when using higher visibilities. But remember: RAM requirements haven't changed with this update. The visibility (distance) still has a massive impact on the number of loaded scenery tiles and RAM required (quadratic, of course...). And yes, this is another area for future improvement... I have 15 FPS here with a GeForce 9500 GT (MSI) and a quad-core. How can I change that draw distance? It is really far. :( Sorry for beginner questions. Roland cheers, Thorsten -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
From: Roland Haeder r.hae...@gmx.de I have 15 FPS here with a GeForce 9500 GT (MSI) and a quad-core. How can I change that draw distance? It is really far. :( The visibility shouldn't have changed with this update - except that the visibility selected at start-up is immediately effective now. You can set a fixed visibility (say 10miles) by adding --disable-real-weather-fetch --visibility-miles=10 to the command-line. Otherwise, use Environment, Global Weather from the menu and configure the weather/visibility manually. cheers, Thorsten -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
I have 15 FPS here with a GeForce 9500 GT (MSI) and a quad-core. How can I change that draw distance? It is really far. :( The visibility shouldn't have changed with this update - except that the visibility selected at start-up is immediately effective now. You can set a fixed visibility (say 10miles) by adding --disable-real-weather-fetch --visibility-miles=10 to the command-line. Otherwise, use Environment, Global Weather from the menu and configure the weather/visibility manually. or the z/Z keys Regards, -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/ Photo gallery - album photo http://www.youtube.com/user/fgfred64 Videos -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery tile management heads up...
On 19 Nov 2010, at 14:29, ThorstenB wrote: All new bugs are mine, so let me know if you noticed anything was broken now. Some improvements mainly show when using higher visibilities. But remember: RAM requirements haven't changed with this update. The visibility (distance) still has a massive impact on the number of loaded scenery tiles and RAM required (quadratic, of course...). And yes, this is another area for future improvement... Getting the splash screen down faster on startup and re-position is a huge win here - excellent. James -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
