Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
Parking brake is just a on/off flag (1bit). Well, right, but not totally. I've seen aircrafts accepting a double value, and I'd like to make it consistent. Intermediate values make sense here since it's a lever that moves along a path (or at least rotates around a hinge). It's not a two positions switch. Anyway, that's not the point, I'm just disgressing :-) ..I've seen levers 'n pedals used on parking brakes, if you set it slowly enough, they go click click click click, just count the clicks. ;o) That's good information :-) A detail to Torsten: how does the SenecaII Parking brake moves along its path in real life? Does it click like an old car parking brake or does it slide smoothly? -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
How a parking brake on small aircraft works:
There is a hydraulic line between the brake cylinders at the pedals ('toe
brakes'). The hydraulic pressure pushes pistons in the brake saddle (aircraft
fixed) against the brake disk on the wheels.
In this line there is a valve that can block this line effectively keeping the
hydraulic pressure on the brake saddle pistons although the pilot releases the
toe brakes.
This valve is usually actuated by a so-called Bowden cable. The pilot only sees
the bowden cable knob which he has to pull to close the parking brake valve. Of
course the valve needs to be kept in the closed position, so the Bowden cable
needs to be able to keep its position. To do this there are two types, both
have a typical travel of around 100mm (4inches):
1. with a knob: push the knob on the centre of the Bowden cable handle to move
the cable freely, release the knob to fix it
2. with friction: the friction is high enough to keep its position in any case,
often there is the clicking noise when moved.
So the parking brake will have two effective settings: open and closed. Any
position in between will mean the valve is partially open and therefore the
parking brake is ineffective. So apply brake pressure, pull Bowden cable out
fully and this will keep your plane from slowly rolling into an other rather
expensive object.
Cheers
Eric
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 10:57:18 +0100
From: rob...@gmx.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
Parking brake is just a on/off flag (1bit).
Well, right, but not totally. I've seen aircrafts accepting a double
value, and I'd like to make it consistent. Intermediate values make
sense here since it's a lever that moves along a path (or at least
rotates around a hinge). It's not a two positions switch. Anyway,
that's not the point, I'm just disgressing :-)
..I've seen levers 'n pedals used on parking brakes, if you set
it slowly enough, they go click click click click, just count
the clicks. ;o)
That's good information :-)
A detail to Torsten: how does the SenecaII Parking brake moves along
its path in real life? Does it click like an old car parking brake or
does it slide smoothly?
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
Eric van den Berg wrote: How a parking brake on small aircraft works: Well, from my experience I'd say there are almost as many different types of small-aircraft parking brakes as there are different manufacturers. I remember having flown at least six different types of small aircraft by three different manufacturers and in these aircraft you'll find three or four different implementations (depending on how close you look at the details) of a parking brake. I'm really talking about different techniques, not just different designs or positions of a parking brake handle. The only thing these aircraft had in common is that the brake discs (one or two maybe even had drums) are being operated hydraulically. Some very light aircraft or microlites are having the discs/drums operated directly by the Bowden cable without hydraulic transmission. Therefore, if you're aiming at defining a general rule for mapping small aircraft parking brakes, make it as flexible as possible. So the parking brake will have two effective settings: open and closed. Indeed, that's true for _some_ of the small aircraft, but it's untrue for some other very popular types. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
Agreed, but the as you are saying, the brake is hydraulic and therefore there will always be a valve that traps the hydraulic fluid and keeps the pressure on the brake pistons. This valve will always only be fully closed in the end position (Just as a tip if you will be using a 'double'). This is standard on _most_ small aircraft as there is only one predominant supplier for wheels and brakes for small aircraft. The implementation may be different, the equipment is the same on every single aircraft. BTW when I say small aircraft I mean Part 23 aircraft, excluding anything bigger then a six-seat single turboprop. Cheers, Eric To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net From: martin.sp...@mgras.net Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 11:22:38 + Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution? Eric van den Berg wrote: How a parking brake on small aircraft works: Well, from my experience I'd say there are almost as many different types of small-aircraft parking brakes as there are different manufacturers. I remember having flown at least six different types of small aircraft by three different manufacturers and in these aircraft you'll find three or four different implementations (depending on how close you look at the details) of a parking brake. I'm really talking about different techniques, not just different designs or positions of a parking brake handle. The only thing these aircraft had in common is that the brake discs (one or two maybe even had drums) are being operated hydraulically. Some very light aircraft or microlites are having the discs/drums operated directly by the Bowden cable without hydraulic transmission. Therefore, if you're aiming at defining a general rule for mapping small aircraft parking brakes, make it as flexible as possible. So the parking brake will have two effective settings: open and closed. Indeed, that's true for _some_ of the small aircraft, but it's untrue for some other very popular types. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
On Friday 09 March 2012 13:27:19 Eric van den Berg wrote: Agreed, but the as you are saying, the brake is hydraulic and therefore there will always be a valve that traps the hydraulic fluid and keeps the pressure on the brake pistons. This valve will always only be fully closed in the end position (Just as a tip if you will be using a 'double'). This is standard on _most_ small aircraft as there is only one predominant supplier for wheels and brakes for small aircraft. The implementation may be different, the equipment is the same on every single aircraft. Most gliders I've flown do not even use hydraulics for brakes. And the parking brake often is nothing more than some hook or lever which can be used to lock the brake lever. But it's still a 0 or 1 thing. The brakes either are locked or not. Of course, full brake may still not be enough to keep the aircraft in place or not even to prevent it from taking off... Stefan -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
Eric van den Berg wrote: Agreed, but the as you are saying, the brake is hydraulic and therefore there will always be a valve that traps the hydraulic fluid No. At least the older C172's are having mechanically operated parking brake levers which apply force onto the same hydraulic master cylinders as the pedals do. The DR300's and maybe even the very early DR400's are using the same principle and, as far as I remember, that's quite similar on the C150's and PA28's (the DR300 doesn't have toe brakes at all ). Thus all their parking brakes are featuring an analogue characteristic. The modern DR400's are having a parking brake valve according to your explanation and our old C175 has a mechanical ! arrestor on the hydraulic master cylinders. Did I forget one ? Maybe. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
I see, I am sure there are more. I must admit I am more familiar with aircraft that are a bit more modern then the models you mention. But I do know (I just had a look) that an old PA28-200 has a seperate, parallel cylinder with a handle in the middle console and a knob to fix it. Using the master cylinder (or a seperate one) is not a very smart thing to do as they are notoriously leaky. I guess that is why newer aircraft designs use a seperate brake valve... But I would say a 'double' property is appropriate and the characteristic depends on the individual aircraft. Cheers, Eric BTW Stefan: FAR/JAR/CS23 requires that the brakes are able to keep the (braked) wheels from turning with engine at take-off power. It does not require to hold the aircraft at its position (thus slipping is allowed). To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net From: martin.sp...@mgras.net Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 12:46:25 + Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution? Eric van den Berg wrote: Agreed, but the as you are saying, the brake is hydraulic and therefore there will always be a valve that traps the hydraulic fluid No. At least the older C172's are having mechanically operated parking brake levers which apply force onto the same hydraulic master cylinders as the pedals do. The DR300's and maybe even the very early DR400's are using the same principle and, as far as I remember, that's quite similar on the C150's and PA28's (the DR300 doesn't have toe brakes at all ). Thus all their parking brakes are featuring an analogue characteristic. The modern DR400's are having a parking brake valve according to your explanation and our old C175 has a mechanical ! arrestor on the hydraulic master cylinders. Did I forget one ? Maybe. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
Eric van den Berg wrote: I see, I am sure there are more. I must admit I am more familiar with aircraft that are a bit more modern then the models you mention. I've flown at least two rather modern aircraft (different types) but I still prefer the aged ones for their style and atmosphere - and for their charter rates :-) Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
How could I think that parking brakes would have been such a hot topic??!! :-) Anyway, I appreciate the long detailed point of views. It's clear to me I have to be generic enough with this input device. Well, it's going to stay as a 'double' but not a 24bit resolution anyway! -- Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Gene Buckle wrote: Scratch building hall effect sensor input assemblies is very, very easy. See here: http://www.simpits.org/geneb/?p=299 Here's a more detailed how-to that I posted: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3225807/DIY_hall_sensor.html#Post3225807 I've been told by a guy that built a set of these for his cockpit that he gets a wider voltage range by using a single magnet instead of an opposed pair. I haven't had a chance to try that idea myself however. That's a very neat solution. Makes me want to create a throttle quadrant from scratch just to get the chance to try it out. Only question is whether to make a generic one, or build a North American T-6/P51-D style console and add trim controls as well -Stuart -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 20:41:56 +0100, Roberto wrote in message 4f57ba04.2080...@gmx.net: Parking brake is just a on/off flag (1bit). Well, right, but not totally. I've seen aircrafts accepting a double value, and I'd like to make it consistent. Intermediate values make sense here since it's a lever that moves along a path (or at least rotates around a hinge). It's not a two positions switch. Anyway, that's not the point, I'm just disgressing :-) ..I've seen levers 'n pedals used on parking brakes, if you set it slowly enough, they go click click click click, just count the clicks. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
Am 07.03.2012 18:14, schrieb Roberto Inzerillo: Hi everybody, it's a few weeks I'm dealing with a few analog to digital converters, I'm using them to convert external analog signals and use them as inputs to FlightGear controls. I'm wondering which resolution is best when dealing with properties of type double. My analog values get converted to digital ones before being fed to FGFS. I see FGFS likes doubles, that's ok, I am converting those digital inputs to appropriate double values. I'm talking about stuff like /controls/flight/aileron or /controls/engines/enigne/throttle. I'll try and be as precise as possible with my hardware so that I get reliable/stable/consistent readings to feed to FGFS, I'm getting closer to make rid of any unwanted highres noise, still I am going to deal with 8, 10 or 12-bit resolution digital values. That may be too much and useless. I'd like to crop them down to more reasonable resolution if possible/usefull. I see FGFS keyboard/mouse interface uses 7/8bit resolution. I'd like to know if someone can help me figuring out what input resolution should I use for: /controls/flight/aileron /controls/flight/aileron-trim /controls/flight/elevator /controls/flight/elevator-trim /controls/flight/rudder /controls/flight/rudder-trim /controls/gear/brake-parking /controls/engines/enigne/throttle /controls/engines/engine/cowl-flaps-norm /controls/engines/engine/propeller-pitch I'd prefer keep using 8bit resolution (cheap and reliable solution). I'm open to use 10bit resolution if usefull. I'm willing to go with a 12bit resolution input only if _really_ needed. That's how I see it now. I don't want to discard usefull information, nor I want to use useless over-precise values. I'm looking for a reasonable compromise here, but I don't know the internals of FGFS. Cheers, Roberto Hi Roberto, for my poor mens procedure trainer, I use 10bit for the flight controls and found 8bit by far to coarse. Currently I use 8bits for the toe breaks and the engine controls and see some jitter at times. I'll use 10bit when I update the firmware the next time. Parking brake is just a on/off flag (1bit). HTH Torsten -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
On Wed, 7 Mar 2012, Roberto Inzerillo wrote: I see FGFS keyboard/mouse interface uses 7/8bit resolution. I'd like to know if someone can help me figuring out what input resolution should I use for: /controls/flight/aileron /controls/flight/aileron-trim /controls/flight/elevator /controls/flight/elevator-trim /controls/flight/rudder /controls/flight/rudder-trim /controls/gear/brake-parking /controls/engines/enigne/throttle /controls/engines/engine/cowl-flaps-norm /controls/engines/engine/propeller-pitch Roberto, the _minium_ ADC resolution I'd use is 10 bit with 12 bit being preferred. 8 bit is just too coarse to give a good result. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r] -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
Hi, I've been using 12 bit resolution. Need it since I'm also operating with a control force loading system and autopilot. If you go to 12 bits suggest you get some high res, multi-turn pots or some other systems (like magnetic) to give you the precision that warrants 12 bits. If you're using low cost single 270 degree turn pots, might as well stick with a lower bit resolution. Incidentially, those same 12 bits boards are used to fly the Global Observer UAV built by AeroVironment, so I guess they're good enough ;-) Think of it this way, determine the angular travel of your control stick; for 8bits divide by 256; for 12 bits divide by 4096. That defines the resoluion., i.e. degrees per bit. So then you have to decide how good is your sensor in defining the control stick location. If you can't sense 4096 discrete positions your wasting time and money using 12 bits. Regards John - Original Message - From: Roberto Inzerillo rob...@gmx.net To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2012 10:14:44 AM Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution? Hi everybody, it's a few weeks I'm dealing with a few analog to digital converters, I'm using them to convert external analog signals and use them as inputs to FlightGear controls. I'm wondering which resolution is best when dealing with properties of type double. My analog values get converted to digital ones before being fed to FGFS. I see FGFS likes doubles, that's ok, I am converting those digital inputs to appropriate double values. I'm talking about stuff like /controls/flight/aileron or /controls/engines/enigne/throttle. I'll try and be as precise as possible with my hardware so that I get reliable/stable/consistent readings to feed to FGFS, I'm getting closer to make rid of any unwanted highres noise, still I am going to deal with 8, 10 or 12-bit resolution digital values. That may be too much and useless. I'd like to crop them down to more reasonable resolution if possible/usefull. I see FGFS keyboard/mouse interface uses 7/8bit resolution. I'd like to know if someone can help me figuring out what input resolution should I use for: /controls/flight/aileron /controls/flight/aileron-trim /controls/flight/elevator /controls/flight/elevator-trim /controls/flight/rudder /controls/flight/rudder-trim /controls/gear/brake-parking /controls/engines/enigne/throttle /controls/engines/engine/cowl-flaps-norm /controls/engines/engine/propeller-pitch I'd prefer keep using 8bit resolution (cheap and reliable solution). I'm open to use 10bit resolution if usefull. I'm willing to go with a 12bit resolution input only if _really_ needed. That's how I see it now. I don't want to discard usefull information, nor I want to use useless over-precise values. I'm looking for a reasonable compromise here, but I don't know the internals of FGFS. Cheers, Roberto -- Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
Parking brake is just a on/off flag (1bit). Well, right, but not totally. I've seen aircrafts accepting a double value, and I'd like to make it consistent. Intermediate values make sense here since it's a lever that moves along a path (or at least rotates around a hinge). It's not a two positions switch. Anyway, that's not the point, I'm just disgressing :-) -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
Roberto Inzerillo wrote: Well, right, but not totally. I've seen aircrafts accepting a double value, and I'd like to make it consistent. Intermediate values make sense here since it's a lever that moves along a path (or at least rotates around a hinge). It's not a two positions switch. The ancient C175 for example and the more recent DR400 are having a knob which arrests the toe brakes in the current position upon pulling - on the C175 via a mechanical link, on the DR400 it's a hydraulic valve. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
On Wed, 7 Mar 2012, castle...@comcast.net wrote: Hi, I've been using 12 bit resolution. Need it since I'm also operating with a control force loading system and autopilot. If you go to 12 bits suggest you get some high res, multi-turn pots or some other systems (like magnetic) to give you the precision that warrants 12 bits. If you're using low cost single 270 degree turn pots, might as well stick with a lower bit resolution. Scratch building hall effect sensor input assemblies is very, very easy. See here: http://www.simpits.org/geneb/?p=299 Here's a more detailed how-to that I posted: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3225807/DIY_hall_sensor.html#Post3225807 I've been told by a guy that built a set of these for his cockpit that he gets a wider voltage range by using a single magnet instead of an opposed pair. I haven't had a chance to try that idea myself however. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r] -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
Think of it this way, determine the angular travel of your control stick; for 8bits divide by 256; for 12 bits divide by 4096. That defines the resoluion., i.e. degrees per bit. So then you have to decide how good is your sensor in defining the control stick location. If you can't sense 4096 discrete positions your wasting time and money using 12 bits. Well, I'll choose the proper sensor depending on the expected resolution (but not only!), no doubt about that. The method used to measure this value has its role too. I've read a good deal about hall sensors for high res sensors (I already started investigating those one too). You see I try and choose considering various factors here; FGFS needs are a part of this decision process. There's costs, easy of usage, and reliability also. I'd like to know what FGFS developers think it has to be expected from a decent input device, the other aspects are up to me. Torsten's right when it says the Parking Brake needs only 1bit resolution. He's got a valid point: it's his point of view :-) I'm not using a joystick since I installed Windows7 so I can't see what's the default input res used by FGFS with a Joystick. Could someone help me there? That's the res people using FGFS are generally expecting for basic elevator/aileron/rudder actions. And I guess it's enough for them. I wonder if more is needed. Then again, engine controls may work flawless with an 8bit res input. Anybody thinks a 10bit res is needed here? I'm not talking about what people are currently doing (I'd go with 24bit on everything ... joking!), I'm asking about reasons (technical aspects, facts) that can help me decide for high-res against low-res. That would help me a lot in making good choices with respect to what FGFS is expecting from an input device. -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
Am 07.03.2012 20:59, schrieb Roberto Inzerillo: I'm not talking about what people are currently doing (I'd go with 24bit on everything ... joking!), I'm asking about reasons (technical aspects, facts) that can help me decide for high-res against low-res. That would help me a lot in making good choices with respect to what FGFS is expecting from an input device. I can tell you from experience with many users during our LinuxTag and FSweekend presentations that you need - for throttle: 1 bit (full/idle) - for Mixture: 1 bit(full rich/cutoff) - for RPM: allway full (constant) Flight controls depend on user experience: first time user: 2 bit (full-left, more-or-less-centered, full-right) space cadets (those, who always know better): 32bit is not enough. ;-) Torsten -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
I can tell you from experience with many users during our LinuxTag and FSweekend presentations that you need - for throttle: 1 bit (full/idle) - for Mixture: 1 bit(full rich/cutoff) - for RPM: allway full (constant) :D :D :D :D :D -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Torsten Dreyer tors...@t3r.de wrote: I can tell you from experience with many users during our LinuxTag and FSweekend presentations that you need - for throttle: 1 bit (full/idle) - for Mixture: 1 bit(full rich/cutoff) - for RPM: allway full (constant) Flight controls depend on user experience: first time user: 2 bit (full-left, more-or-less-centered, full-right) space cadets (those, who always know better): 32bit is not enough. ;-) Well said Thorsten, and make your controls and switches out of titanium or steel -- it's amazing how much damage a 7 year old can do when he doesn't realize the control or switch only goes so far and then is supposed to stop. Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution?
If you plan to do any formation flight, then you need all the resolution you can get from engine controls. Anyway, I would try to dimension the resolution on the minimum amount of play that can be obtained on the controls. Just build one sensor and edit the input file so that you can map it to a different channel every time, then check the FGFS property it is mapped to and see if you can hold it to a set value and move it smoothly between the extremes. Alessandro Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 20:59:18 +0100 From: rob...@gmx.net To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Double Input Resolution? Think of it this way, determine the angular travel of your control stick; for 8bits divide by 256; for 12 bits divide by 4096. That defines the resoluion., i.e. degrees per bit. So then you have to decide how good is your sensor in defining the control stick location. If you can't sense 4096 discrete positions your wasting time and money using 12 bits. Well, I'll choose the proper sensor depending on the expected resolution (but not only!), no doubt about that. The method used to measure this value has its role too. I've read a good deal about hall sensors for high res sensors (I already started investigating those one too). You see I try and choose considering various factors here; FGFS needs are a part of this decision process. There's costs, easy of usage, and reliability also. I'd like to know what FGFS developers think it has to be expected from a decent input device, the other aspects are up to me. Torsten's right when it says the Parking Brake needs only 1bit resolution. He's got a valid point: it's his point of view :-) I'm not using a joystick since I installed Windows7 so I can't see what's the default input res used by FGFS with a Joystick. Could someone help me there? That's the res people using FGFS are generally expecting for basic elevator/aileron/rudder actions. And I guess it's enough for them. I wonder if more is needed. Then again, engine controls may work flawless with an 8bit res input. Anybody thinks a 10bit res is needed here? I'm not talking about what people are currently doing (I'd go with 24bit on everything ... joking!), I'm asking about reasons (technical aspects, facts) that can help me decide for high-res against low-res. That would help me a lot in making good choices with respect to what FGFS is expecting from an input device. -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
