Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
I've updated the texture pack it now includes a winterized (snowy) set of textures (thanks Erik for the tip on how to make snow appear on everything). Ironically, where I live in Florida where it doesn't snow :p -Rob
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
Mark wrote: Hi Rob! First of all let me thank you for your contribution. I've been experimenting with textures in FGFS myself for a while and I know how hard it is to get to such quality textures. So keep up the good work ;-) When I had a first look at the textures I initially liked them better than the default textures. After that I also shared the opinon of Melchior and Georg about the images. I specially modified them with increased contrast and other adapitions which actually made them look worse. That means more like in MS-FS 2002, which looks unnatural to me. So being unsatisfied with that, I reverted to the default-set. It's true that the default textures are sharper and have more contrast, but I feel your textures do look and mix better after all. But of course they're not perfect yet. For example the crop textures don't actually show crop and look more like grassland / prairie. It could look a bit more like this for southern Germany: http://www.akermann.org/fgfs/mixedcrop.jpg Since I've also been playing with textures, I thought I might also contribute the better ones I created. I did use textures from various sources and so it's not possible to share all of them for copyright reasons. A source I found very useful is NASA's Website: http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/ . You can find a texture-pack containing my snow, galcier and packice images here: http://www.akermann.org/fgfs/fg_phototex_ma.tgz I would be happy to see them included in your set ;-) There is really no need to abandon any good texture, either from me, form Rob or from you. It would be great to create an excellent set from all available sources, no? Erik BTW. I do have a few other textures ready which I never included due to texture memory restraints and which may be used in conjunction to the others (and yes, they are all based on satellite images): http://www.ehofman.com/fgfs/download/orig_tex.tar.gz -- http://www.ehtw.info (Dutch)Future of Enschede Airport Twente http://www.ehofman.com/fgfs FlightGear Flight Simulator --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
Erik Hofman wrote: http://www.ehofman.com/fgfs/download/orig_tex.tar.gz and: http://www.ehofman.com/fgfs/download/desert_tex.tar.gz Erik -- http://www.ehtw.info (Dutch)Future of Enschede Airport Twente http://www.ehofman.com/fgfs FlightGear Flight Simulator --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
Erik Hofman wrote: There is really no need to abandon any good texture, either from me, form Rob or from you. It would be great to create an excellent set from all available sources, no? Erik Hi Erik. That's my idea, too. That way we can combine our efforts to create formidable textures. I took a look at your hires textures. Where did you get the images of the fields in the irrcrop-textures from? I was trying to create some myself that would fit better for my area, but failed to find any suitable images of crop. Do you still have the originals? @Rob: I've been flying around all evening and I can recommend flying over the alps. The current texture set looks good there and the tundra/herb tundra textures look kindof alpine, too. If there was texture-blending on the seems, it would really look great. Well, I'm sure that'll come sometime. Mark --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
Mark wrote: I took a look at your hires textures. Where did you get the images of the fields in the irrcrop-textures from? All my textures were taken from spaceimaging.com I don't think I still have the original but I could look it up for you. Erik -- http://www.ehtw.info (Dutch)Future of Enschede Airport Twente http://www.ehofman.com/fgfs FlightGear Flight Simulator --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
Idon't know if we can use their images anymore since they where recently aquired by Geoeye. Furthermore, we now have to register (and pay) todownload their images now :( -Rob
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
Hi Rob! First of all let me thank you for your contribution. I've been experimenting with textures in FGFS myself for a while and I know how hard it is to get to such quality textures. So keep up the good work ;-) When I had a first look at the textures I initially liked them better than the default textures. After that I also shared the opinon of Melchior and Georg about the images. I specially modified them with increased contrast and other adapitions which actually made them look worse. That means more like in MS-FS 2002, which looks unnatural to me. So being unsatisfied with that, I reverted to the default-set. It's true that the default textures are sharper and have more contrast, but I feel your textures do look and mix better after all. But of course they're not perfect yet. For example the crop textures don't actually show crop and look more like grassland / prairie. It could look a bit more like this for southern Germany: http://www.akermann.org/fgfs/mixedcrop.jpg [The picture is of a unknown source, so it may not be distributed.] The city textures are OK and do suit my local surroundings better than the original ones, which look kinda american. I like the town texture from the default set better, since it isn't as dense as yours and has more vegetation. However, since it's not available in hires, yours does look better in the simulation. Shrub, sand and tundra textures are definately an improvement while I still would like to see better ones for forests and deciduous areas. So much to my comments.. Since I've also been playing with textures, I thought I might also contribute the better ones I created. I did use textures from various sources and so it's not possible to share all of them for copyright reasons. A source I found very useful is NASA's Website: http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/ . You can find a texture-pack containing my snow, galcier and packice images here: http://www.akermann.org/fgfs/fg_phototex_ma.tgz I would be happy to see them included in your set ;-) Another issue I was thinking about is Copyright. As far as I could see, you are not distributing your textures with any copyright notice. This is ok for sharing it in the community, but actually you should name the original source and terms of use in a file somewhere, even if they are in the public domain. And if the textures are used as official set, this will be a MUST. I have provided a file for my files and you could just add your lines to it (I actually already added your name in the header). Mark Georg Vollnhals wrote: Rob Oates schrieb: New scenery update! Hopefully this gets everyones blessing :) Hi Rob, hi all! I am very glad you are such an engaged contributer to FlightGear and have seen that you are improving your skills during the work. But I am sorry to say - after testing your latest work - that these textures should not be the default FlightGear textures for the next release. 1. They are not universal or generic world-wide They might fit for US-America but absolutely not for the local area of Northern Europe. The old textures were not best possible but fit much more better if I compare it. 2. General quality is poorer And the new textures are POOR IN CONTRAST especially in the areas where the satellite made his shots through clouds. This is also the main reason I am not satisfied. Poor contrast gives the impression of poor color display (not wrong color display). The old textures have more contrast and better colors. 3. Structure sizes wrong? One can also discuss wheather the size of the displayed structures (fields, houses) are as they should be, especially comparing the different textures against each other. THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME as I just take the old ones. But the impression a newcomer to FlightGear will have at first glance is important and therefore we should provide the new textures as an alternative to the old ones, not as the default. Rob, hat up for your work. But please understand that I frankly and free tell my opinion. If something replaces really good stuff in the FlightGear default package then it should be of higher quality than the old materials. You have not reached this point now with your work after my opinion. Keep on working. Get better basic photos free from cloud disturbances and more universal. Improve your graphic skills. Show us what you are able to. Accept for now your textures are a good alternative but are not able to hit the old ones. Georg EDDW Anyways, Thanks for everyone's input. These textures are really looking good! -Rob Oates --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
Wow, those textureslook great! I'll definately include them into the texture pack later today :) Also, thanks for the copyright file, I'll append the list of my files and include it with the texture pack. -Rob On 4/3/06, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another issue I was thinking about is Copyright. As far as I could see,you are not distributing your textures with any copyright notice. This is ok for sharing it in the community, but actually you should namethe original source and terms of use in a file somewhere, even if theyare in the public domain.And if the textures are used as official set, this will be a MUST. I have provided a file for my files and you could just add your lines toit (I actually already added your name in the header).MarkGeorg Vollnhals wrote: Rob Oates schrieb: New scenery update! Hopefully this gets everyones blessing :) Hi Rob, hi all! I am very glad you are such an engaged contributer to FlightGear and have seen that you are improving your skills during the work. But I am sorry to say - after testing your latest work - that these textures should not be the default FlightGear textures for the next release. 1. They are not universal or generic world-wide They might fit for US-America but absolutely not for the local area of Northern Europe. The old textures were not best possible but fit much more better if I compare it. 2. General quality is poorer And the new textures are POOR IN CONTRAST especially in the areas where the satellite made his shots through clouds. This is also the main reason I am not satisfied. Poor contrast gives the impression of poor color display (not wrong color display). The old textures have more contrast and better colors. 3. Structure sizes wrong? One can also discuss wheather the size of the displayed structures (fields, houses) are as they should be, especially comparing the different textures against each other. THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME as I just take the old ones. But the impression a newcomer to FlightGear will have at first glance is important and therefore we should provide the new textures as an alternative to the old ones, not as the default. Rob, hat up for your work. But please understand that I frankly and free tell my opinion. If something replaces really good stuff in the FlightGear default package then it should be of higher quality than the old materials. You have not reached this point now with your work after my opinion. Keep on working. Get better basic photos free from cloud disturbances and more universal. Improve your graphic skills. Show us what you are able to. Accept for now your textures are a good alternative but are not able to hit the old ones. Georg EDDW Anyways, Thanks for everyone's input. These textures are really looking good! -Rob Oates --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel---This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting languagethat extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory!http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___Flightgear-devel mailing listFlightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
Scenery Updated! Now includes Mark Akermann's updates to Glaicer, Snow, and Packice. :) I'll currently looking at changing the hue to the forest textures to match thenotherneuropean area.Mineseems to be a bit too emerald, and I think would be acceptable to makethem a little darker. -Rob
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
On Mon, 2006-04-03 at 22:53 -0400, Rob Oates wrote: and I think would be acceptable to make them a little darker. Please don't make them darker. One of the thing I like about your texture set vs. the old one is I can actually make out details over forests its not all one black blob. See the mountains behind this screen shot: http://www.jentronics.com/fgfs/fgfs-screen-ferriswheel.jpg Vs. your new, brighter textures: http://www.jentronics.com/fgfs/fgfs-screen-ferriswheel2.jpg I can actually see to fly up the canyons now. Ridge crossing at mach 1 in my F4 is a blast :) --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
oh, not a problem then ^_^ -Rob On 4/4/06, Ron Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2006-04-03 at 22:53 -0400, Rob Oates wrote: and I think would be acceptable to make them a little darker. Please don't make them darker.One of the thing I like about yourtexture set vs. the old one is I can actually make out details overforests its not all one black blob.See the mountains behind this screen shot: http://www.jentronics.com/fgfs/fgfs-screen-ferriswheel.jpgVs. your new, brighter textures: http://www.jentronics.com/fgfs/fgfs-screen-ferriswheel2.jpgI can actually see to fly up the canyons now.Ridge crossing at mach 1in my F4 is a blast :)--- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting languagethat extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcastand join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642___ Flightgear-devel mailing listFlightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
Rob Oates wrote: The winter textures are prooving to be alot harder to create than I previously thought. I'll eventually find a good solution, unfortunately it will not be in time for the 0.9.10 release. I used to copy the texture layer in Gimp and use the Threshold color function fro around 100 to 255 to make a black and white layer. Now you can either use the lighten only at around 80% opacity, or Soft Light mode in the Layers dialog to combine the two. Erik -- http://www.ehtw.info (Dutch)Future of Enschede Airport Twente http://www.ehofman.com/fgfs FlightGear Flight Simulator http://www.cafepress.com/fgfs_flightsim FlightGear Art --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
Rob Oates schrieb: New scenery update! Hopefully this gets everyones blessing :) Hi Rob, hi all! I am very glad you are such an engaged contributer to FlightGear and have seen that you are improving your skills during the work. But I am sorry to say - after testing your latest work - that these textures should not be the default FlightGear textures for the next release. 1. They are not universal or generic world-wide They might fit for US-America but absolutely not for the local area of Northern Europe. The old textures were not best possible but fit much more better if I compare it. 2. General quality is poorer And the new textures are POOR IN CONTRAST especially in the areas where the satellite made his shots through clouds. This is also the main reason I am not satisfied. Poor contrast gives the impression of poor color display (not wrong color display). The old textures have more contrast and better colors. 3. Structure sizes wrong? One can also discuss wheather the size of the displayed structures (fields, houses) are as they should be, especially comparing the different textures against each other. THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME as I just take the old ones. But the impression a newcomer to FlightGear will have at first glance is important and therefore we should provide the new textures as an alternative to the old ones, not as the default. Rob, hat up for your work. But please understand that I frankly and free tell my opinion. If something replaces really good stuff in the FlightGear default package then it should be of higher quality than the old materials. You have not reached this point now with your work after my opinion. Keep on working. Get better basic photos free from cloud disturbances and more universal. Improve your graphic skills. Show us what you are able to. Accept for now your textures are a good alternative but are not able to hit the old ones. Georg EDDW Anyways, Thanks for everyone's input. These textures are really looking good! -Rob Oates --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
Am Samstag, den 01.04.2006, 10:57 +0200 schrieb Georg Vollnhals: Rob Oates schrieb: New scenery update! Hopefully this gets everyones blessing :) Hi Rob, hi all! I am very glad you are such an engaged contributer to FlightGear and have seen that you are improving your skills during the work. But I am sorry to say - after testing your latest work - that these textures should not be the default FlightGear textures for the next release. 1. They are not universal or generic world-wide They might fit for US-America but absolutely not for the local area of Northern Europe. The old textures were not best possible but fit much more better if I compare it. I don't agree, the new textures work a lot better for the region I live, (Cologne-Bonn area) than the old ones. Flying through the rhine valley and not seeing crop fields on steep rock is definitely an improvement. Also the wooded areas are a lot better recognizeable (like the woods around the Nuerburgring) 2. General quality is poorer And the new textures are POOR IN CONTRAST especially in the areas where the satellite made his shots through clouds. This is also the main reason I am not satisfied. Poor contrast gives the impression of poor color display (not wrong color display). The old textures have more contrast and better colors. In my opinion too much contrast doesn't look realistic. The mid european (bad) weather and haze is not very rich in contrast. Airports are a lot better recognizeable with the new textures. The edges of the texture regions are looking better with lesser contrast. 3. Structure sizes wrong? One can also discuss wheather the size of the displayed structures (fields, houses) are as they should be, especially comparing the different textures against each other. I never measured them, but I once flew in real live over a graveyard and thought that were parking places ;-) THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME as I just take the old ones. But the impression a newcomer to FlightGear will have at first glance is important and therefore we should provide the new textures as an alternative to the old ones, not as the default. I believe a newcomer will be impressed by the new textures. Rob, hat up for your work. But please understand that I frankly and free tell my opinion. If something replaces really good stuff in the FlightGear default package then it should be of higher quality than the old materials. You have not reached this point now with your work after my opinion. Keep on working. Get better basic photos free from cloud disturbances and more universal. Improve your graphic skills. Show us what you are able to. Accept for now your textures are a good alternative but are not able to hit the old ones. Georg EDDW Anyways, Thanks for everyone's input. These textures are really looking good! -Rob Oates This is just my personal opinion: Rob, your work is great! --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
Hi Rob Rob Oates wrote: New scenery update! Hopefully this gets everyones blessing :) here is what is improved: + The color of the city textures finally look good. No more violet, and the hues look perfect. + New town texture...i'm finally satisfied with this one, it goes well with the city texture. (really looks good with the south-germany custom scenery). + Shrubs (taken from the defunct 2006.03.29 release :P ) + Fixed the Materials.XML file is now included (thanks Ron) As usual you can get it from http://mellonroot.acomp.usf.edu/~phoenix http://mellonroot.acomp.usf.edu/%7Ephoenix The winter textures are prooving to be alot harder to create than I previously thought. I'll eventually find a good solution, unfortunately it will not be in time for the 0.9.10 release. Anyways, Thanks for everyone's input. These textures are really looking good! Had a chance this morning to look at your new textures Looks like the blue problem with the drylake beds has been fixed. One of the problems with the edwards scene is number of runways FG produces, there in only one large north-south concrete runway with a dry lake overrun ( 15K and 9K in length) and a small strip for the local flying club. Everything else is a dry-lake bed surface (good as concrete) with painted numbers and outlines/centerlines defining the runway boundaries. I guess FG applies a regular runway texture to these as well. If you had a runway texture with an alpha channel of zero for the surface and something approaching 1.0 for the stripping and numbers, you could blend the texture with the underlying surface and create the runway. Or just render the dry lake beds sans runways... Two main dry lakes, Rogers next to Edwards and Rossamond about 10 miles east Things really get bleached by the sun, just like the paint on the east and south side of your house. The dry lake beds are very uniform in color and texture. Took a look with Gimp at the .rgb files. Thinking a a lighter shade of sand in #4 and #5 would be more realistic rather than #1,2, or 3. Even a very light concrete: would work. For some reason, I'm not seeing the same scene you've posted on your webpage, which by the way looks d--- good! Still a lot of green in my scenes. Do you need the latest CVS source for things to render correctly? Currently using a post -0.9.9 CVS version from around mid-January. Or a fresh download of the base package? Taking off from an airport in the LA basin and climbing north over the San Gabriels, you see the urban scene below, the dark forest green of the mountains with the gray of the higher peaks (snow in the winter) above the treeline ahead, and the vast expanse of bright desert beyond as you crest the ridge line. The contrast/demarcation/transition between the north side of the mountains and the desert floor is quite quick and distinct. Regards John W. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
Hello Rob, Rob Oates wrote: New scenery update! Hopefully this gets everyones blessing :) Don't expect to get everyones blessing for a contribution to _any_ collaborative project, there's always everywhere someone who feels offended by your contribution. The goal is to recieve as little angry feedback as possible :-)) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures update ...
Melchior, Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Rob Oates: I've made adjustments to the following textures based on everyon's feedback: Adjusted the hues on City [1,2,3] made them reddish Arghh ... who said they should be reddish? I said less bluish. Shadows should be grey, not blue/violet. But least of all should they be red. FlightGear is an OpenSource project. Among many other characteristics this implies that things go well if everyone contributes where his interest and skills match best. Now, not everyone is a perfectly skilled contributor right from the start and I'd say the FlightGear project doesn't want, must not want to miss those who still need to accomodate with the 'requirements' of such a sophisticated OpenSource project. In order improve their learning progress, constructive criticism is an essential means of support. As you, Melchior, are really great about finding _and_ fixing other people's programming bugs - and I'm sure the FlightGear project doesn't want to miss your contribution in this field - I have the impression that constructive criticism is not always your strong point. Quite often, too often the words you use in your criticism are well-suited to offend people. Regards, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=110944bid=241720dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
