Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
Would it be possible to start logging and saving (and publishing) MP messages somewhere so a person with a grievance would have some hard evidence to show what happened. Right now when push comes to shove, we are in a he said/she said situation. But if we logged every message + call sign + ip address we could go back and review situations. Certainly it's possible the grieved party might have said something initially that was more controversial than they remember and started the situation degenerating into something worse than it would have been. Certainly it's possible that comments would be misinterpreted. We could also passively collect some stats on what portion of messages contain possibly offending language or what specific call signs might have unusually high percentages of matching words. Not initially to use for enforcement, but just to review the true nature of the situation so we can make a more informed decision as to if we have a real problem that needs to be addressed, or not ... ? I understand that data free discussions are the most fun, but if we logged and published MP messages, we could do some statistical analysis on all the conversations, and we would also have specific cases we could review to determine if there really is a problem or not. I'd hate to spend 6 months developing an authentication system because one idiot one time said something stupid and it never happened again. But if stuff happens regularly, or if there are regular offenders, perhaps we would be wise to think more carefully about developing mechanisms to deal with it. Hi Curt, I'm sure that I am not the first person on the receiving end of trash on mp. I have seen pilots attacked before, and the the best thing I could do was notify the recipient of the ignore function, which works good as a defense after an attack has taken place. I don't think we need anything too advanced, but some sort of preventative measure is necessary to keep a calm, welcoming multiplayer environment. I think that storing chat logs would be a good start. I don't know that the logs would have to be stored publicly, though. Possibly we could set up a email such as ab...@flightgear.org, where pilots could email a report in that specifies the time and other details about the abuse that took place. The report handler could then go to the chat log, jump to the time that the abuse occurred at, and read the logs until they come across the abusive messages. They could then identify the sender of those messages by their IP, and block that IP from connecting to the server network. This wouldn't be as complicated as a account system, but just as effective. I would also like to thank everybody for showing that they care. I can already tell that we are going to make much greater progress than I would have on the forums. I am really glad that everybody is willing to get to a solution and compromise on what we can do to make flightgear as great as possible. Semper Fi, Jack -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
just a small idea: why can't we use the flightgear phpbb forum accounts ? we already have a table containing users/emails/md5 passwords. the server could check for an user/password against this table (ok, not with a direct connection to the mysql db, but calling an ad-hoc php page that verifies username/password for us using a simple http request.). this would be quite easy to do. and would be easy to kick an account if someone is bad behaving. my 2 cents cheers Francesco -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
As a guy who gets insulted about every second day while trying to enforce proper ATC onto everybody approaching EDDF I surely would support a system which could solve that problem - if I just had the slightest idea how to overcome the following questions: # How can we avoid that somebody (who believes he is the good guy) reacts in a manner, that just escalates the problem - maybe he even tries to shoot the opponent down? What is worse: The first words of kids stuff or an escalating response? # I am no lawyer, so: Could you really win in court if somebody insults you - and you responded or even escalated -- although you could stop that whole attack just by a little mouse-click into the PilotList? # I hope we agree at least, that MP should always act worldwide - and nobody is forbidden to type or talk in any language - what dictionary or so could you use to define how big the problem is we all have? # How do you handle spoken attacks via FGCOM? Translate via Festival and then make a literal compare? # If you implement a grading system: How can you avoid that some bad guys group together and downgrade good guys - maybe just for fun? I am pretty sure ATCs could be a good target for such combined minus ratings. What happens if somebody gets downgraded and finally be locked out? Can he go to court and say I did not!? # To my knowledge it is just about impossible today to define a person by IP: Multi-usage by many people, DNS changing IP NR every day, WLANS, etc. Even the police do have big problems to define a person by IP -- they need special court-orders for checking the providers-list (at least in Europe!). # Would you even be allowed to keep a rating system on your serves that keeps track of personal behavior? If so in US - also worldwide?? And if so: Who is allowed to look into that?? So quite frankly, i do not see any possibility to do something like this without a very huge overload of administration (and constant costs - and undefined legal problems - worldwide!). So really I do only see one solution: Lets all try to be paragons -- and reduce the problem! I do not see any solution to prevent it completely! Not even if we had unlimited resources available! I am really glade I do not have to decide on that. joe -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing: FSWeekend 2010
Hi All, I would just like to drop a note here, announcing that FSWeekend, the largest flight simulation event in Europe is coming up again. As in previous years, the event will be organized in the Aviodrome, the aviation museum at Lelystad (EHLE) airport, in the Netherlands. This year, the event will be held on Saturday 6, and Sunday November 7. Last week, I signed us up for having a booth again, and have already received confirmation that we're welcome. Last year we had one of the larger booths, and a pretty good show. I certainly hope to be able to improve upon that one. In addition to FSWeekend, a number of people, most notably Willie Flemming, have coined the idea of organizing a developer meeting / conference to coincide with FSWeekend. I am supportive of that idea, but unfortunatly lack the resources to assist in organizing such an event. However, speaking from past experience I do know that such meetings are typically a lot of fun, and I would most definitely welcome anybody who would like to join or participate in such an event. In any case, if you happen to be around and have some time available, please stop by for a quick chat with one of our booth staff members, and share your FlightGear experience with us. Hope to see you all in large numbers! :-) Cheers, Durk I am very proud to announce that German hardware vendor Thomas-Krenn AG has sponsored a workstation to help us present the latest and cooles features of FlightGear at this year's FSWeekend. The machine specs are, well, insane: dual Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X5690 @ 3.47GHz, total of 24 cores 12GB RAM four nvidia GTX460 with 2GB RAM each. enough harddrive space, sound, DVD, etc., etc. http://www.t3r.de/flightpics/ThomasKrenn-workstation1.jpg http://www.t3r.de/flightpics/ThomasKrenn-workstation2.jpg http://www.t3r.de/flightpics/ThomasKrenn-workstation3.jpg (how many DVI adaptors do you count? Yes, eight!) We met the nice guys of Thomas-Krenn AG at this year's LinuxTag where we were almost booth neighbours. Durk, Martin and I visited the their headquarter a few weeks ago. We received a very warm welcome and had the oppertunity to visit the entire company. If you are in the need for professional server- or workstation hardware, you might want to consider visiting http://www.thomas-krenn.com/ and support our supporters. If you were still looking for an excuse to fly into Amsterdam and visit FSWeekend, this machine definitely is one! Cheers, Torsten -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
Curtis Olson wrote: Another thought. I know it would be a huge effort to setup a system with user id's and passwords, self registration, [...] ^ To be honest, I'd expect those who deliberately are being rude will just create a new account after they've been locked out. This requires someone to perform continuous maintenance on the system. If you/we are really serious about setting up an authentication system, then there's probably no other suitable means expect from introducing some initial test/exam which, as well, requires a huge effort to set up and maintain. That would be a project on its own. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
It would not be dissimilar from the forum, or the wiki or any other CMS. All those systems need to deal with user management and authentication, and as soon as the flightgear MP starts ruling the world, we'll probably see spambots too. Once we start attracting spammers then do we still consider it a free world where a social solution and peer pressure is the best option? You are right though that it could be a large project. On the other hand, there is a lot of systems that do authentication ... maybe there are some modules available that we could just plug in and use that wouldn't require starting from scratch? I'm not saying this is what we *should* do, I was merely suggesting that it's a possible route we could take, and perhaps with some small tweaks to the MP protocol we could easily support authenticated servers. Would it be bad if a user had a choice between the open free for all we currently have and a more constrained and managed system (that someone has taken the time to build and continues to manage.) Regards, Curt. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Martin Spott wrote: Curtis Olson wrote: Another thought. I know it would be a huge effort to setup a system with user id's and passwords, self registration, [...] ^ To be honest, I'd expect those who deliberately are being rude will just create a new account after they've been locked out. This requires someone to perform continuous maintenance on the system. If you/we are really serious about setting up an authentication system, then there's probably no other suitable means expect from introducing some initial test/exam which, as well, requires a huge effort to set up and maintain. That would be a project on its own. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
That stuff is unnecessary and in real life you'd probably get your license yanked if you were caught using foul language on the radio. Here, in Canada , its a $5000 fine and/or a year in jail.That,s a pretty good deterrent :). When I had my first engine failure in RL, I remember not to have used correct wording when reporting to ATC. Instead of mayday mayday mayday - [callsign], engine failure, position, intention, blah, blah, I am sure my transmission started with sh__ ;-) Torsten -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
?How about two systems? An introductory/open system, and a second system available only to those people who have not abused the first? (I won't go into practical details, it's just the basic idea I'm tentatively proposing. It could be a complete non-runner for fundamental reasons I'm not aware of)/. Mally - Original Message - From: Curtis Olson curtol...@gmail.com To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers It would not be dissimilar from the forum, or the wiki or any other CMS. All those systems need to deal with user management and authentication, and as soon as the flightgear MP starts ruling the world, we'll probably see spambots too. Once we start attracting spammers then do we still consider it a free world where a social solution and peer pressure is the best option? You are right though that it could be a large project. On the other hand, there is a lot of systems that do authentication ... maybe there are some modules available that we could just plug in and use that wouldn't require starting from scratch? I'm not saying this is what we *should* do, I was merely suggesting that it's a possible route we could take, and perhaps with some small tweaks to the MP protocol we could easily support authenticated servers. Would it be bad if a user had a choice between the open free for all we currently have and a more constrained and managed system (that someone has taken the time to build and continues to manage.) Regards, Curt. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Martin Spott wrote: Curtis Olson wrote: Another thought. I know it would be a huge effort to setup a system with user id's and passwords, self registration, [...] ^ To be honest, I'd expect those who deliberately are being rude will just create a new account after they've been locked out. This requires someone to perform continuous maintenance on the system. If you/we are really serious about setting up an authentication system, then there's probably no other suitable means expect from introducing some initial test/exam which, as well, requires a huge effort to set up and maintain. That would be a project on its own. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1136 / Virus Database: 422/3207 - Release Date: 10/19/10 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1136 / Virus Database: 422/3207 - Release Date: 10/19/10 -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing: FSWeekend 2010
On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 13:58:35 +0200, Torsten wrote in message 201010201358.35298.tors...@t3r.de: Hi All, I would just like to drop a note here, announcing that FSWeekend, the largest flight simulation event in Europe is coming up again. As in previous years, the event will be organized in the Aviodrome, the aviation museum at Lelystad (EHLE) airport, in the Netherlands. This year, the event will be held on Saturday 6, and Sunday November 7. Last week, I signed us up for having a booth again, and have already received confirmation that we're welcome. Last year we had one of the larger booths, and a pretty good show. I certainly hope to be able to improve upon that one. In addition to FSWeekend, a number of people, most notably Willie Flemming, have coined the idea of organizing a developer meeting / conference to coincide with FSWeekend. I am supportive of that idea, but unfortunatly lack the resources to assist in organizing such an event. However, speaking from past experience I do know that such meetings are typically a lot of fun, and I would most definitely welcome anybody who would like to join or participate in such an event. In any case, if you happen to be around and have some time available, please stop by for a quick chat with one of our booth staff members, and share your FlightGear experience with us. Hope to see you all in large numbers! :-) Cheers, Durk I am very proud to announce that German hardware vendor Thomas-Krenn AG has sponsored a workstation to help us present the latest and cooles features of FlightGear at this year's FSWeekend. The machine specs are, well, insane: dual Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X5690 @ 3.47GHz, total of 24 cores ..2 cpus x 6 cores/cpu x 2 threads/core = 24 threadsss, ;o) 'cat /proc/cpuinfo' will mention ht on the 24 flags lines. A wee hint that FG should run on more than one thread? ;o) 12GB RAM ..this will do for running FG from ram disk, just try it, e.g. off a Knoppix style Live-CD, boot it with toram, then do the aptitude update ;aptitude install flightgear \ ;aptitude clean ;fgfs dance and _enjoy_. ;o) four nvidia GTX460 with 2GB RAM each. enough harddrive space, sound, DVD, etc., etc. http://www.t3r.de/flightpics/ThomasKrenn-workstation1.jpg http://www.t3r.de/flightpics/ThomasKrenn-workstation2.jpg http://www.t3r.de/flightpics/ThomasKrenn-workstation3.jpg (how many DVI adaptors do you count? Yes, eight!) ..and 4 VGA too. A dozen screens to make a nice igloo? ;o) We met the nice guys of Thomas-Krenn AG at this year's LinuxTag where we were almost booth neighbours. Durk, Martin and I visited the their headquarter a few weeks ago. We received a very warm welcome and had the oppertunity to visit the entire company. If you are in the need for professional server- or workstation hardware, you might want to consider visiting http://www.thomas-krenn.com/ and support our supporters. ..and they sell 18 screen setups... ;o) If you were still looking for an excuse to fly into Amsterdam and visit FSWeekend, this machine definitely is one! Cheers, Torsten -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing: FSWeekend 2010
Torsten Dreyer wrote: If you were still looking for an excuse to fly into Amsterdam and visit FSWeekend, this machine definitely is one! s/Amsterdam/Lelystad/ Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcing: FSWeekend 2010
Torsten Dreyer wrote: We met the nice guys of Thomas-Krenn AG at this year's LinuxTag where we were almost booth neighbours. Durk, Martin and I visited the their headquarter a few weeks ago. thanks to Torsten and his wife, without whose generous support the entire trip would have been completely impossible !! I'll leave it to the others to decide wether they'd like to post pictures to the public (since I didn't take any), Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
On 10/20/2010 7:39 AM, Curtis Olson wrote: It would not be dissimilar from the forum, or the wiki or any other CMS. All those systems need to deal with user management and authentication, and as soon as the flightgear MP starts ruling the world, we'll probably see spambots too. Once we start attracting spammers then do we still consider it a free world where a social solution and peer pressure is the best option? You are right though that it could be a large project. On the other hand, there is a lot of systems that do authentication ... maybe there are some modules available that we could just plug in and use that wouldn't require starting from scratch? I'm not saying this is what we *should* do, I was merely suggesting that it's a possible route we could take, and perhaps with some small tweaks to the MP protocol we could easily support authenticated servers. Would it be bad if a user had a choice between the open free for all we currently have and a more constrained and managed system (that someone has taken the time to build and continues to manage.) Regards, Curt. Since I'm pretty familiar with BZFlag, I'll use it as an example again. It is a multiplayer game by design where anyone can host their own server and maps (worlds). Each server can have its own rules about swearing (including custom word filtering or no word filtering) and what is or isn't considered abuse of others, but they all have one thing in common: Users are authenticated (or not) by a central server. Their credentials are those of their BZFlag forum membership. When a player tries to connect to a game server, the player's credentials go to the central server. That server tells the game server that the player's authentication passed, failed or that the server doesn't know them. Game servers can decide what to do with that information; most game servers refuse connection to an authentication failed player, but allow those that the server doesn't know (usually with reduced privileges). The central server also hosts a global ban list that maintains banned IPs and/or callsigns. Severe abusers are generally reported by individual game server admins or players to the benevolent dictators who maintain the central server. Having central authentication in place allows for a trust mechanism to be implemented globally. Allowing unregistered people to join in lets people try it out without the hassle of signing up, but with reduced privileges or ability to mess with other people. -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
Hi all, L Francesco wrote: why can't we use the flightgear phpbb forum accounts ? we already have a table containing users/emails/md5 passwords. the server could check for an user/password against this table (ok, not with a direct connection to the mysql db, but calling an ad-hoc php page that verifies username/password for us using a simple http request.). That would certianly be possible, atleast on the forum side (I don't know about the MP system). The good thing about this idea would be IMO that we can talk to people who bully/abuse/shout. Most people at the forum feel bad when they are contacted by a mod after misbehaving. If they don't (and continue misbehaving), a ban is easily set up. Connecting multiplayer accounts to forum accounts would make people more visible and thus (atleast I hope and think) make them think twice before doing something. We would need one or two extra mods for this though. Cheers, Gijs -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
Gene Buckle wrote: On Tue, 19 Oct 2010, Curtis Olson wrote: Oh dear ... http://www.noswearing.com/dictionary I was going to say that we could probably do a pretty good job at coming up with a list ourselves, then I saw this site and realized I'm a complete novice ... A filter like this belongs in the client machine, not the server. snip Implementing such a filter on the client side will open your eyes to the pitfalls of that quite quickly - i'll just compile fg myself, and apply a patch which disables such a filter - now what you want to do? security by (client side) obscurity can be quite nice, but i really think at some point this has reached its limits. Nathanael. -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
On Wednesday 20 October 2010 18:57:05 Nathanael Rebsch wrote: Implementing such a filter on the client side will open your eyes to the pitfalls of that quite quickly - i'll just compile fg myself, and apply a patch which disables such a filter - now what you want to do? security by (client side) obscurity can be quite nice, but i really think at some point this has reached its limits. If the filter is on the receiving end it doesn't matter. When someone wants to see all bad words, he may remove the filter. Anyway it would only affect himself. Stefan -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
Stefan Seifert wrote: On Wednesday 20 October 2010 18:57:05 Nathanael Rebsch wrote: Implementing such a filter on the client side will open your eyes to the pitfalls of that quite quickly - i'll just compile fg myself, and apply a patch which disables such a filter - now what you want to do? security by (client side) obscurity can be quite nice, but i really think at some point this has reached its limits. If the filter is on the receiving end it doesn't matter. When someone wants to see all bad words, he may remove the filter. Anyway it would only affect himself. Stefan In that case you bandwidth payload for no good reason. Nathanael -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
-Stuart On 20 Oct 2010, at 18:10, Nathanael Rebsch nathan...@dihedral.de wrote: Stefan Seifert wrote: On Wednesday 20 October 2010 18:57:05 Nathanael Rebsch wrote: Implementing such a filter on the client side will open your eyes to the pitfalls of that quite quickly - i'll just compile fg myself, and apply a patch which disables such a filter - now what you want to do? security by (client side) obscurity can be quite nice, but i really think at some point this has reached its limits. If the filter is on the receiving end it doesn't matter. When someone wants to see all bad words, he may remove the filter. Anyway it would only affect himself. Stefan In that case you bandwidth payload for no good reason. Nathanael -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
On 20 Oct 2010, at 18:10, Nathanael Rebsch wrote: In that case you bandwidth payload for no good reason. No worse than at present. As I said earlier, I would also put a filter on the sender to filter the casual profanity and make our expected standard of behaviour clear. IMO a filter is a very cheap partial solution with little downside. If I get the chance in the next couple of days I'll put one together. Stuart -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
Stuart Buchanan wrote: On 20 Oct 2010, at 18:10, Nathanael Rebsch wrote: In that case you bandwidth payload for no good reason. No worse than at present. As I said earlier, I would also put a filter on the sender to filter the casual profanity and make our expected standard of behaviour clear. IMO a filter is a very cheap partial solution with little downside. If I get the chance in the next couple of days I'll put one together. Stuart Still, a solution solely on the server can be more easily tweaked, updated and taken care of in the case of bugs / issues. which is not the case for clients unless they fetch a list from elsewhere. personally i would vote for a system implemented on the servers. and in addition frequent moderation. Nathanael -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
On Wed, 20 Oct 2010, Stuart Buchanan wrote: On 20 Oct 2010, at 18:10, Nathanael Rebsch wrote: In that case you bandwidth payload for no good reason. No worse than at present. As I said earlier, I would also put a filter on the sender to filter the casual profanity and make our expected standard of behaviour clear. IMO a filter is a very cheap partial solution with little downside. If I get the chance in the next couple of days I'll put one together. Nanny state, FTW. *sigh* Filter on the client side, only. Please. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
On Wed, 2010-10-20 at 21:02 +, Martin Spott wrote: Curtis Olson wrote: Would it be bad if a user had a choice between the open free for all we currently have and a more constrained and managed system (that someone has taken the time to build and continues to manage.) No, offering multiple options to choose from is certainly not a bad idea. Whenever/whatever people are going to do about adding authentication support to MP servers, if they'd consider adding an interface which is capable of talking to an LDAP directory service (inetOrgPerson LDAP Object Class would be minimum requirement), then I'd offer to install and maintain the _technical_ part of the authentication backend (but I'll most certainly leave the organizational role to someone else ;-) Cheers, Martin. While we are talking about Authentication, I'd really like to see a federated authentication mechanism such as SAML or OpenID. Having direct access to an LDAP server just feels like it a bad idea in the long term, either by scalability/capacity or by opening up access rights. Federated authentication systems also come with self registration, password reset, group management and other identity management functions. By using a federated authentication mechanism, it means the collection of web sites we have would all have a single username/password, and it would give us single-signon capabilities. OpenID means we would could defer authentication to Google, Microsoft, Yahoo and many other providers, and so we remove the scalability and management issues with authentication. Using something like SAML would mean we would be our own authentication provider, it is a slightly more managed federation of trust, we specify who is in our federation and we run and manage that configuration. Scott. -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
Scott Hamilton wrote: On Wed, 2010-10-20 at 21:02 +, Martin Spott wrote: Whenever/whatever people are going to do about adding authentication support to MP servers, if they'd consider adding an interface which is capable of talking to an LDAP directory service (inetOrgPerson LDAP Object Class would be minimum requirement), then I'd offer to install and maintain the _technical_ part of the authentication backend (but I'll most certainly leave the organizational role to someone else ;-) While we are talking about Authentication, I'd really like to see a federated authentication mechanism such as SAML or OpenID. Having direct access to an LDAP server just feels like it a bad idea in the long term, either by scalability/capacity or by opening up access rights. I've been making this offer because I'm familiar with the software, the technique involved, its benefits in general, its versatility in particular, its quirks as well as scalability concerns. If people feel like biasing decisions by shouting each other down, then I'm happily going to observe the process as a spectator. Have fun, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
On Wed, 2010-10-20 at 22:21 +, Martin Spott wrote: Scott Hamilton wrote: On Wed, 2010-10-20 at 21:02 +, Martin Spott wrote: Whenever/whatever people are going to do about adding authentication support to MP servers, if they'd consider adding an interface which is capable of talking to an LDAP directory service (inetOrgPerson LDAP Object Class would be minimum requirement), then I'd offer to install and maintain the _technical_ part of the authentication backend (but I'll most certainly leave the organizational role to someone else ;-) While we are talking about Authentication, I'd really like to see a federated authentication mechanism such as SAML or OpenID. Having direct access to an LDAP server just feels like it a bad idea in the long term, either by scalability/capacity or by opening up access rights. I've been making this offer because I'm familiar with the software, the technique involved, its benefits in general, its versatility in particular, its quirks as well as scalability concerns. If people feel like biasing decisions by shouting each other down, then I'm happily going to observe the process as a spectator. Have fun, Martin. Martin, I'm sorry if you feel I have shouted you down, that wasn't my intention at all with my reply. I was expressing my long-term concern about direct access to a LDAP server. I wanted this to highlight the need to think about the consequences and think about how it would meet future capacity requirements. My reply was intended to extend your idea of a single identity, by using middleware components to distribute or federate that identity, not to downgrade the idea, I'm sorry if it wasn't taken in way in this open forum. Scott. -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] F/A-18 License
Hi Everybody, I've been doing some heavy work on Mathias Frohlich's F/A-18 lately, but I have been forced to postpone my release of the improved version due to the fact that I cannot find any indication of what license it is under. I've searched around looking for any ways of contacting him, but have been without luck. If Mathias doesn't respond to this, can anybody provide me with Mathias's email address? That would really help me. Check Six, Jack -- Nokia and ATT present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
