FLUXLIST: Does erasing take time ?
>From: Reed Altemus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >There is a reason for this. It saves time. Rewriting or paraphrasing >takes time, time some of us (I'll only speak for myself at this point) >don't have. While I agree with you that new subjects should be made for This argument has appeared on ALL the lists I've subcribed to. I'm thinking that commerce/industry teaches at least one thing - presentation counts. If your intended audience complains it can't SEE your message properly, is that 'intolerance', and whose intolerance is it ? no offense intended, but the time / speed argument cuts at least two ways. One seemingly gains immediacy, but if you don't have 'time' to present ideas to your readers carefully, in a manner they can decipher, they too can argue they don't have time to read thru poorly presented items. no ? Additionaly there's the real increased risk of being misunderstood, because the message can't be found. Some day for me FLUXDigest, it's like sitting in a movie house, behind someone with a big hat, next to a couple who can't stop talking to the screen, the projector is out of focus, and someone else eating chips. You can still see the film, but what strain ! >an evolving conversation, I think it's unfortunate that you're tolerance >for what might be called "text noise" is so low. However, I, even as >hairy chested and dense as I am, will try to be more attentive to this >particular problem. and then you included the WHOLE of Ken's post below your reply :-) Which tells me you maybe don't understand what the problem Ken and I are talking about is - precisely I believe because so many of you are on broadcast. I don't think Ken has asked to paraphrase, so much as to ERASE the unneccessary material before subscribers send out replies. Does erasing take SO much time ? I suggest, as an experiment, we switch the whole of FLUXLIST to Digest-mode ONLY, for a few days, so you can all experience what our problem is. Richard
Re: FLUXLIST: Fluxus History (was Scott Rigby's question)
>I thought alot about Ulysses and "Ned" I think his name was...I'm not sure "Ned" >had chums, but those mysteries were quite the steamy treat. Harry Enfield had chums. Couldn't beat the Fast Show, though. mn
FLUXLIST: FLUXSPAGHETTIRRITATED
>>Am I the only one who gets irritated? > >No, you're not. make that 3. [and Ken is probably no.4 - hi Ken!] For work reason I have to be on in Digest mode : some days, I already receive over 150 emails, I cant cope with 50 more from FLUXLIST. Fluxlist-digest is increasingly an unreadable spagetti-like mess of nested quote, doublequotes, triplequotes. And that's why I rarely send anything out : why bother to write/answer/share, if posts might disappear in tangles of unnecessary verbiage/backgroundnoise/COMMERCIAL .Signatures. I wish this list : a - automatically rejected posts that came with unchanged headers b - automatically rejected posts that came too much un-edited Replied-To material. Such software exists. c - new subscribers would have to be on Digest mode for a few days, before they were allowed to post in Broadcast. Richard
Re: FLUXLIST: two catses three pawses one mouse
I'm very tired and signing off now and may not be interpreting this correctly, but could I use my actual cats, Countess Rrose Calico and Count Vladimir de Mews Russian Blue? They have often attempted document searches when I am not at home and are quite enamored with my keyboard. It would be two cats, four paws (frontal), one keyboard, probably catnip beforehand. Yawn, (sorry) PK hyperdelic wrote: > with talk of cut-up(s) in recent posts, i wanted to share an idea for > a process my companion and i like to refer to as "3 pawses typing" > (with "pawses" being what most humans would refer to as > "hands")...anyway, the idea is pretty simple. > > (not really) required resources: > > - two people, or two catses > (they should be in love, or at least close friends...but, it's not required) > - one computer with keyboard, monitor and mouse > - two chairs (or one chair if they want to share it) > > even these requirements are not really required, but suggested, as > they were what we used for our first exercise. > > for the sake of description, let us refer to our subjects (or catses) > as "minky" and "liz"...now, one of them, let's say liz takes his/her > place at the keyboard and begins typing. what is typed is really not > all that important, it could be a letter, a message to a friend or > this even works when using something like instant messenger or icq. > as liz is typing, usually with both of his/her pawses (similar to > hands), minky is using the mouse to randomly re-place the cursor > within the body of the text, etc. this mouse movement can be totally > random, or formulated dependent upon the subject involved. while liz > is typing, he/she should just act as though the text is flowing as > usual, possibly not even looking at the monitor...the idea is that > bits of the body of the message will end up being placed and replaced > during the actual process of creation... > > we've used this process in corresponding with friends via instant > messenger and it's proven to be a lot of fun... > > any opinions? maybe someone else can give it a try and let me know > how it worked out for them... > > -- > - [EMAIL PROTECTED] . icq - 7601958 . aim - bodyhater > - they were gentlemen who came and went, who supervised >and were relaxed, sometimes smiling, sometimes joking, >but never unhappy.
FLUXLIST: two catses three pawses one mouse
with talk of cut-up(s) in recent posts, i wanted to share an idea for a process my companion and i like to refer to as "3 pawses typing" (with "pawses" being what most humans would refer to as "hands")...anyway, the idea is pretty simple. (not really) required resources: - two people, or two catses (they should be in love, or at least close friends...but, it's not required) - one computer with keyboard, monitor and mouse - two chairs (or one chair if they want to share it) even these requirements are not really required, but suggested, as they were what we used for our first exercise. for the sake of description, let us refer to our subjects (or catses) as "minky" and "liz"...now, one of them, let's say liz takes his/her place at the keyboard and begins typing. what is typed is really not all that important, it could be a letter, a message to a friend or this even works when using something like instant messenger or icq. as liz is typing, usually with both of his/her pawses (similar to hands), minky is using the mouse to randomly re-place the cursor within the body of the text, etc. this mouse movement can be totally random, or formulated dependent upon the subject involved. while liz is typing, he/she should just act as though the text is flowing as usual, possibly not even looking at the monitor...the idea is that bits of the body of the message will end up being placed and replaced during the actual process of creation... we've used this process in corresponding with friends via instant messenger and it's proven to be a lot of fun... any opinions? maybe someone else can give it a try and let me know how it worked out for them... -- - [EMAIL PROTECTED] . icq - 7601958 . aim - bodyhater - they were gentlemen who came and went, who supervised and were relaxed, sometimes smiling, sometimes joking, but never unhappy.
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submission
> Greater Care/ Reply Function > > common practice > refresh memory > provide context > paraphrasing time > evolving conversation > hairy chested > lengthy problem > reply function? > lengthy Buroughs > passages > offering > problem context > hairy conversation > refresh memory > please > > PK Harris > 25 April 2000 Hairy chested. Yeah, sort of like Robert Watts and his various too-male works like the chest and breast aprons etc. not to mention other unmentionables he did which verged on the pornographic. Geez *another* dead guy. At my invitation tonight everyone is welcome to play taps for art. Life is more important. RA
FLUXLIST: Nart Auctions
In the email today... >From: "NART Newsletter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:24:23 +0200 >Subject: NART Auctions Information > >Hello, > >Nart Auctions is specialized in the online auctions of selected and >appraised works of art, all of them guaranteed by an expert. >Currently on is an auction dedicated to Lettrism, a proeminent contemporary >artistic movement. >Discover a variety of paintings, photographs and objects by Isidore ISOU, >founder of Lettrism, Maurice LEMAITRE, Alain SATIE, Roland SABATIER and >others artists, at a wide range of prices. >The sale runs until April 29 >http://www.nart.com/ventes/lettrisme/en/index.html > >- >Bonjour, > >Nart Auctions est spécialisé dans la vente aux enchères en ligne d'ouvres d' >art, sélectionnés, expertisées et garanties par un expert. >Nous vous proposons actuellement une vente dédiée au Lettrisme, important >mouvement artistique contemporain. >Découvrez tableaux, photographies et objets d'Isidore ISOU, fondateur du >Lettrisme, de Maurice LEMAITRE, d'Alain SATIÉ, de Roland SABATIER et >d'autres artistes, dans une large gamme de prix. >La vente se clôturera le 29 avril >htttp://www.nart.com/ventes/lettrisme/fr/index.html > >= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >Nart.com : a passion for Art ! > >A daily art magazine as well as an online auction site, Nart.com is made up >of about 30 highly motivated people : journalists, experts, auction >specialists, etc. >Nart.com provides its readers with a daily information on artists, >international exhibits, art events, and much more ! >Nart's webcams and video netcasts enable art lovers to visit artists' >studios and witness the creation of art works live. >Nart.com also benefits from a network of specialists and experts commited to >selecting and authenticating the art works presented for its daily auctions. > > >Nart.com la passion de l'Art ! > >A la fois quotidien de l'Art et site de ventes aux enchères, Nart.com est >composée d'une trentaine de personnes passionnées : journalistes, >rédacteurs, experts, spécialistes des ventes aux enchères. >Nart.com propose tous les jours de l'informations sur les artistes, les >expositions mondiales, les événements artistiques... >Des webcams et des reportages vidéo permettent de visiter les ateliers des >artistes et de pouvoir ainsi suivre en direct la génèse d'une ouvre d'art. >Nart.com dispose aussi d'un réseau d'experts spécialisés et engagés dans la >sélection et la validation des ouvres présentées lors de ses ventes aux >enchères quotidiennes. >Alors avec Nart.com, vivez l'Art en direct. > >Nart.com >156, boulevard Haussmann >75008 Paris >Tel. : +33 (0)1 58 56 57 57 >Fax : +33 (0)1 58 56 57 50 >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://www.nart.com
FLUXLIST: Re: Aleatoric
> Re: aletaoric > > "The composer John Cage is particularly noted for this technique, and traces of > it can be found in the work of numerous artists within his circle (e.g., > Robert Rauschenberg, Naim June Paik, Jim Dine, etc.)." > I always thought the term "aleatoric" was more associated with European Stylists (Boulez) but I may be wrong. I read the Cage/Boulez letters book at one point and I think this was one of their differences. I think Cage was more likely to use terms like "indeterminate" and "chance operations" to describe. > > I have never had brunch with John Cage, although I fervently wish I had, > however, I did read this by Cage about Rauschenberg's White Paintings, writen > late in 1953. (A, minimalism, yes, I am a fan, doesn't bear the hand of > the artist, or does it?) (please note, there are tabulations after the first > line 'To whom' but prob'ly won't show up on fluxlist.) > > To whom > No subject > No image > No taste > No object > No beauty > No message > No talent > No technique (no why) > No idea > No intention > No art > No feeling > No black > No white (no and) > > "After careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion that there is > nothing in these paintings that could not be changed, that they can be seen in > any light and are not destroyed by the action of shadows." Yes, too much thinking is black and white which is why I always liked Cage's thinking so much, It's very liberating given half a chance. Itespecially helped me escape the tyranny of the Pop song format when I was a musician- all 4/4 verse chorus bridge verse chorus bridge verse chorus chorus bridge etc. Opened my ears at the time so.. it does stay with you. RA
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
> You'd be right to say that this is only in the cultural > sphere, but I guess Cage saw his work as possibly being a model for other > social relations. > Yes, a model. I agree. I like the way you're looking at things holistically. I do that to (on a good day). RA > > >
Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST-digest V1 #253 and all others
Oh, I'm very late on this, since I am reading the posts backwards, but I do agree with Ann. I like minimalism, but I also like reference and fluxlist has many messages and many references and it's nice to know what one is answering. As a for instance, this reference could be taken as a digestif, something one eats after escargots. However With a reference, we are clear to answer!!! But, of course, one should not overdo, too many words give indigestion. Best, PK Ooops, better clean up some of these trailings below. > How about sweeping > > that mouse over previous messages, trashing them, and sending us your pithy > > remarks? JH > I leave the parts that seem relevant to > understanding my response. > > AK
Re: FLUXLIST: You've Got Crabs
No, but this makes me very hungry so I must go catch some crayfish. And, why are there so many exclamation points? !!! PK Rod Stasick wrote: > "Crustacean's Literary Centre": > > http://web.lab.net/~lime/clc/the_clc.html > > (Does anyone remember Crabby Appleton?) > > Rod > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. > http://invites.yahoo.com
FLUXLIST: Poetry Submission
(realtering text, nudges intended, but with smiles) Greater Care/ Reply Function common practice refresh memory provide context paraphrasing time evolving conversation hairy chested lengthy problem reply function? lengthy Buroughs passages offering problem context hairy conversation refresh memory please PK Harris 25 April 2000
Re: FLUXLIST: Lunch with Cage
Ohmigod, I never made the correlation, and, of course, that is why you watch it - for
its artistic ties - I watch it fixedly, I have to admit I identify with AB, frequent
hallucinations, flashbacks, rotten relationshipsI must stop here lest I
digress further into Munch with Cagethe restaurant.
PK
Rod Stasick wrote:
> One of the characters on Ally McBeal is named
> John Cage. I watch it indeterminately. Rod
>
> --- "Villani, Adam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > One of the characters in the Mortal Kombat
> > video game is Johnny Cage. There
> > are certain aleatoric elements to the game.
> >
> > Adam
> >
>
> =
> http://rostasi.8m.com
> http://members.aol.com/HuntJerry/index.htm
> "(oboe) was for opium...A movement was a pound, sixteen bars in a movement...He'd
>(call me and) say 'I want six bars of the sonata for oboe'" - John Cale speaking of
>how he and LaMonte Young used to execute drug deals ("What's Welsh for Zen")
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com
Re: FLUXLIST: Lunch with Age
I think you mean Shaun Page, he was one of the Rutles imposter bands - stole cars then sold them to poets - had quite a reputation, but turned quite a good verse, and that was what sold 'em. But, really, baked beans on toast for lunch? I think not!!! I only bought cars from aging mushroom vendors who served them up with warm ale - the mushrooms, not the cars. ; ) *grin* moi Roger Stevens wrote: > I had lunch with John Cage in 1972 > It was a disappointing affair although the car he sold me > served me well. > I don't think he was related to the American artist, though. > > Roger
Re: FLUXLIST: Cabby Appleton
Was he the driver, then? PK Roger Stevens wrote: > I once shared a taxi with Cabby Appleton. > Any relation? > > -Roger
FLUXLIST: Brunch With Cage
To All, I am reading the posts backwards - it seems the thing to do for me tonight. Re: aletaoric "The composer John Cage is particularly noted for this technique, and traces of it can be found in the work of numerous artists within his circle (e.g., Robert Rauschenberg, Naim June Paik, Jim Dine, etc.)." I have never had brunch with John Cage, although I fervently wish I had, however, I did read this by Cage about Rauschenberg's White Paintings, writen late in 1953. (A, minimalism, yes, I am a fan, doesn't bear the hand of the artist, or does it?) (please note, there are tabulations after the first line 'To whom' but prob'ly won't show up on fluxlist.) To whom No subject No image No taste No object No beauty No message No talent No technique (no why) No idea No intention No art No feeling No black No white (no and) "After careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing in these paintings that could not be changed, that they can be seen in any light and are not destroyed by the action of shadows." John Cage "Villani, Adam" wrote: > One of the characters in the Mortal Kombat video game is Johnny Cage. There > are certain aleatoric elements to the game. > > Adam
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submission
In a message dated 4/25/00 5:41:03 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Apologies to the list for that which was exactly what I didn't want to >do. My mistake. > Don't apologize, Reed. Sometimes mistakes are good, like when you accidently play Cmaj7 instead of boring old C7. (My apologies to the list in advance for quoting Reed's message in its entirety.) Tom Grothus
RE: FLUXLIST: Lunch with Cage
One of the characters on Ally McBeal is named
John Cage. I watch it indeterminately. Rod
--- "Villani, Adam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One of the characters in the Mortal Kombat
> video game is Johnny Cage. There
> are certain aleatoric elements to the game.
>
> Adam
>
=
http://rostasi.8m.com
http://members.aol.com/HuntJerry/index.htm
"(oboe) was for opium...A movement was a pound, sixteen bars in a movement...He'd
(call me and) say 'I want six bars of the sonata for oboe'" - John Cale speaking of
how he and LaMonte Young used to execute drug deals ("What's Welsh for Zen")
__
Do You Yahoo!?
Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submission
I'm quite glad you didit And the words have a splendid pattern and mellifluous undulating volumes. Well done. PK Reed Altemus wrote: > Apologies to the list for that which was exactly what I didn't want to do. My > mistake. > > Reed
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submission
Apologies to the list for that which was exactly what I didn't want to do. My mistake. Reed
RE: FLUXLIST: Lunch with Cage
One of the characters in the Mortal Kombat video game is Johnny Cage. There are certain aleatoric elements to the game. Adam
Re: FLUXLIST: Launch with Cage
John and I met up again, quite by chance, in 1987, at the launch of his new book Art of the Classic Car -Roger
Re: FLUXLIST: Lunch with Cage
I had lunch with John Cage in 1972 It was a disappointing affair although the car he sold me served me well. I don't think he was related to the American artist, though. Roger
Re: FLUXLIST: Fridge Over Troubled Water
>Can it be a C-110? Can it be old AND new? At this >point... > >Rod Anything you like! -Roger >> Just make a tape of all your old, obscure, >> fave, rave tracks (hey, should be >> fun) >> and put them on a C60 or C90 >> Send them to me
Re: FLUXLIST: Cabby Appleton
I once shared a taxi with Cabby Appleton. Any relation? -Roger
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
>So, what is a voice? And what is "the habitual voice"? in your opinion? > Well, I was winging it when I said that, but now that you call me on it... ;-) Actually, I think Cage was more exactly concerned about how our taste was conditioned. Our likes and dislikes. He used chance operations and various techniques to get beyond these conditioned judgements. ...conditioned by up-bringing, personal background etc. He tried to develop a practice -- and his mind -- to the point where he could appreciate everything. This is where he was particularly influenced by Buddhism and Eastern philosophy generally... A voice, I suppose, is a distinctive mode of speech, a way of talking that is unique to the individual. Is that voice conditioned by its background or free? Does it reproduced patterns or is it truly creative? ...those might be questions to consider. Of course, they beg as much as they ask, because we'd also need to know what we mean by "free" and "creative". ...I think in Cage being creative means letting things manifest as they are... But there I might be winging it again ;-) best BP George
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
>Yes. Or so he claimed. And made art out of Thoreau's writings etc. I'm just >saying there's a difference between the naive anarchism of some so-called >"cultural workers" and the actuality of political situations. The point I made >to my friend about Cage was "Sure, he was an anarchist, but only in the >cultural sphere." What I meant was talking about "anarchy" and doing it are two >different things. I see what you're saying and am inclined to agree. Cage was resolutely anti-political -- or maybe you could say he embraced an anti-political politics. In this sense too, anarchism is defined by its attempt to get rid of the state (ie. of the political sphere). I think that's a great limitation in Cage, and in anarchism not to mention even Marxism, which sees the elimination of the state as an ultimate goal. In another way though, Cage saw his work as very political in the sense of working with the (power) relations between people (e.g., the people in an orchestra). ... You'd be right to say that this is only in the cultural sphere, but I guess Cage saw his work as possibly being a model for other social relations. >So, George, let me put this question to you. Do you think what Cage did really >changed the world for your garbageman? > Well, I've never discussed music or anything else for that matter with the guy who picks up my garbage, but of course it would be safe to assume he's never heard of Cage. We live in a class society and most people don't have the luxury of receiving a musical education that would include avant-garde art. ... Cage himself -- or no artist -- can change the class structure of society through their work. The relations between classes is the product of social and political struggle... ..Back to politics again. cheers, George >
FLUXLIST: poem for fluxlist
poem by josh ronsen observation emotion rhyme simile cadence rhyme emotion alliteration metaphor rhyme rhyme change of meter blank line hidden allusion to death and/or pain ambiguity caused by lack of punctuation rhyme
Re: FLUXLIST: Here's another vote for greater care with the reply function
Ken and others It is common practice in email communicaton to quote the passage to which you are responding in order to refresh memory and provide context. There is a reason for this. It saves time. Rewriting or paraphrasing takes time, time some of us (I'll only speak for myself at this point) don't have. While I agree with you that new subjects should be made for an evolving conversation, I think it's unfortunate that you're tolerance for what might be called "text noise" is so low. However, I, even as hairy chested and dense as I am, will try to be more attentive to this particular problem. Reed Ken Friedman wrote: > Friends, > > Here's another vote with Judy Hoffberg and Tamas S:t Auby > for greater care with reply function. > > This past week has seen an increase in the use of reply > function to answer brief questions and post short comments. > > At one point, one of those lengthy Buroughs passages was > resent in its entirety simply to post a one-sentence response. > On recent occasions, long passages and complete prior > posts have been going by the second and third time simply > to add a single line. > > In the days before electronic communication, it was possible > to recall something by referring to it in a quick summary > sentence before offering our own comment. > > Thanks. > > Ken > > --
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submission
Hi Roger I'm sending you these off list because it's too much to post and I'd rather not have this recent stuff read on FLUXLIST right now. One caveat: I think it should be called something like "Fluxlist Poetry Chapbook" or anything "Fluxlist" rather than Fluxus per se. Of course others may disagree. Hope you get some stuff from Alan Bowman, his poetry is very cool (see his website (http://space.tin.it/clubnet/abowman/freeformfreakoutorganisation.htm) the Free Form Freakout Organization. BTW you don't have to use all of this I'm sending, take yr pick. I just send more to let you read more of what I do. Hope you enjoy the poems and read you on Fluxlist. Reed PS Had a look at your Children's Poetry website yesterday. Enjoyed it. --- begin --- Buster says "Posture is it." and SO youíd better haZe Popeye vertical-offspring Well, it is Spring but here goes neighbors lumpy crows which Tom would say"Oh yeah, many names." Pissing pulsated pillow-chewer nubs best boink bIllows bEllows bUllows bAllows. Again there you have it, Miller positive past Each wayS to cEll (hardened splatter) Overcast blast past livers shivers quivers the "Not againÖ" OK left,right.left,right This will allow for future opposed to anyways under this cow "Not againÖ"OK left,right,left,right lulu charlie taps gallows nibble? Oh definitely . "Fuck that."Then again. OK right,left,right.left saw Jill ampersand, blinker AND "Itís tough to con trol that anyways." Usually three times, sometimes four. Rusty quickly bait another Noise hook wafted Ö ability to wrench outside yet is it really? Tall infant anywaysÖ Porch/cat/rub/tommorrow morning. Missed them dancing. OK right,left,right,left Just my head in the bowel is all. The only funny things in the world are the 3 stooges and the neoists. Reed Altemus 4/9/00 D fer BH jab N lope K F grapefruit long PV mal O pian S A cellar QW bunion R ils C dat EE ung pulse UG lip Z gorge JX ast DI rect IO nub HM tra I ling pisser WAH trong LY ost N red TF bore S erd urd GY ots PA geode UC ith DP ange LS R. Altemus 4/9/00 Attitude or apathy Benching or bundling Canoes or cullings Denver or dustbowel Every or evidence Fence or fancies Gallows or guilt-ridden Hellbound or handling Intelligence or inertia Jewish or junk Killers or kindereds Longing or lambswool Mentals or mappings Nabisco or numbskull Operated or orthography Pens or pans Quotation or quotidian Rabble or raiders Silt or sediment Tar or tacky Undulating or urges Vapid or vanishers Wedded or waterfowel Xylophone or X-rated Yelling or yesterday Zebra or zeroed R. Altemus 4/14/00 6 rewrithings of some poems of John M. Bennett TomBeau "my" (TUMBling sNORe, Fascination wrIST ed toWard my fLAKing hEad or tumbLINg flOor fastened to my lIst or Lakey liPs benEATh your lap ping bREAD be neaTH your) hips John M. Bennett 12.3.97 timbRE "your" (timbRING Snore FAScinaTion wreST ed tOWard your fLUKing hEad OR TumblING FLOor festooned to your laST or LUCKy lipS BEN eath "my" lip PING tRUMPet be GINing my) heps Reed Altemus 4/15/00 TorimBAUD "your"(TAMe ing geAR fUSsy Notion blISs Add tOward her fLEXIng Baader EAR tin beaRING flOUR fastEND to your LaST or sLINKy LeAPs BEneath "your" limey Brood BY Nate my) hets Reed Altemus 4/18/00 Rob e II: birds the neigh bors e cac a down the drain age jab the Con form ity foot the st air up to #1-E wave b rightly f lag "hi hoÖ" c reaming rift yr pen nies auto trepititionwhy. It chy skull mud a book book a mud flush age st raight to helL anding next theco rn evE ry begin ning exhalation. W hen the knees birds the neigh bors e roof inversed. Saw ah clack ah, duck tightly bound! OK. Blind s JMB 7.28.99 RA 4.20.00 Be auté II: mouldering bar felt raft er hab Chet it I blan ish k sun Ken breeding the cello for the sardine mouldering bar felt be "quest-ce-cíest" I went crad led you my bro laun dry binds gestalt of b urn ing al to me (at night) ah to wind ing mucus-clothed! Yr Des in te grating days at me poltergeist bastard yr crenellating un dulating eye yr "eye" yr inept (span d ex sweepings some) days tan dem g ills end: dust zeit JMB 7.28.99 RA 4.20.00 Ma chin e II : like a gate d rap rips ed yr ca ter pill ers clown ham hocks the door smiler style-less fl utters ten drils hamsterly humpings the even Stephen ing eniero nada sucks his photo gra ve loaf a wool a venue bridge too feds hatless f art ing where the En gland stems, rivu less tibia to be a en tu buses talle merde va ga agate like a gate JBM 7.28.99 RA 4/20/00 Ra il II: genu flect you pee until led the bend sauce teased so Iís anchor too d an bel lies stung rayed genu ine across the corridor b ridge a mean t lap be low can dles yr rive lob elle R key am mend men t dome yr clap board fold hot hints inside, yr veins hat metal arc pet un ias domunism "John-u-ism" flect JMB 7.28.99 RA 4/20/00 ten tits jap LI hug NU punk EK ice JI tongue HA ick SA let AG pay F
Re: FLUXLIST: Fridge Over Troubled Water
Can it be a C-110? Can it be old AND new? At this
point...
Rod
> Just make a tape of all your old, obscure,
> fave, rave tracks (hey, should be
> fun)
> and put them on a C60 or C90
> Send them to me
=
http://rostasi.8m.com
http://members.aol.com/HuntJerry/index.htm
"(oboe) was for opium...A movement was a pound, sixteen bars in a movement...He'd
(call me and) say 'I want six bars of the sonata for oboe'" - John Cale speaking of
how he and LaMonte Young used to execute drug deals ("What's Welsh for Zen")
__
Do You Yahoo!?
Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
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Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
BP I dunno y eye thot u were mail. OK then garbageperson. So you've been eating spinach before you write. Ah, that's the trick. RA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > << > Please! Garbageperson. > > (followed by a bunch of Popeye yuks . . .) > > BestPoet > (who, as near as I can figure, is a female, not a male)
Re: FLUXLIST: Lunch with Cage
> With "Live/Evil", for example, I found it > exciting/daring/inventive etc right after it came > out - then with it's CD release a little less so. I still like it very much, although the parts without drums, you know which tracks I mean, are today even stronger than they were then, maybe they were most "tomorrow". Anyway, MD is what was on the turntable most of the times and I am keen on getting Ann Arbor on tape, in the next two days, with John Mc etc live, but one day I heard the music in a different way, without adding sympathy or whatever...and it sounded awfull. Doesnt explain the lunch with Cage experience of this lady from austria, she couldnt explain it, just said there was no "aura" (that day), dont know. Human beings... H.
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
Sure, Tim, at this point I'm tiring even myself. RA "Porges, Timothy" wrote: > (as per constant request, I am scrubbing off the old material of this > string, but this is about JOHN CAGE) > > Did Cage benefit George's garbageman? I guess that depends on how much > george's garbageman listens to music, > doesn't it? Reed, could you perhaps retire this kind of hairy-chested > proletarianism? It's reminiscent of the posing my SWP friends did back in > the early seventies. There's a period charm to it, but. > > > -Original Message- > > From: Reed Altemus [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 9:44 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry > > > >
RE: FLUXLIST: Poetry
<<
Re: FLUXLIST: Lunch with Cage
--- Heiko Recktenwald
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Remember listening to Thoreau reading
> all night long, which was
> kind of "boring". Maybe you have to have some
> "willingness to like", you
> must bring with you some sympathy etc for the
> man, his work. Or it will
> not work.
Yes, Thoreau (at 12 hours long!) and Satie
"Vexations" as mentioned earlier. I suppose
sympathy is one way, but often Cage was seen as
the circus oddity: "the old punk zen guy" I heard
someone call him...the ONE that everyone had
heard about but never saw.
Those that went to "Empty Words" (thoreau
reading...) who knew what to expect would usually
surrender themselves to the idea/sound of
non-judgement and being open to the eventualities
of their environment. It's not easy for many/most
(?) folks.
> Remember having walked once
> thru an exhibition asking myself what shit I
> once liked, Ben Vautier etc.
> Same with music, for example Live/Evil of Miles
> Davis. Maybe there isnt
> "objectiv" art, depends on moods etc..
I'm never really sure if the change in attitude
over the years is based on accumulations of ideas
and the art/music is compared to what you now
know
or
if it's a disappointment that it didn't continue
to impress EVEN under continually changing
environments.
With "Live/Evil", for example, I found it
exciting/daring/inventive etc right after it came
out - then with it's CD release a little less so.
Items like these seem to make you say, "Well,
just THINK of the time when it was released...It
WAS really something!" (2001: A Space Odyssey or
Metropolis may be cinematic examples), but I find
musical examples like Stockhausen's "Hymnen" or
Pierre Henry's "Apocalypse de Jean" that still
smack my brain the same way as 30+ years ago.
(Does anyone remember when the Superman movie was
released and people said that it was worth going
just to see the opening credits?)
what you
> do yourself, how you can
> live with the art or not, dont know..
I try to approach what I sense without
preconceptions (as much as possible) and if I'm
bothered by it, I try to see if I can use it. If
I'm delighted by it, I generally don't want to
know why. Why did I break down in uncontrollable
tears looking at Shirin Neshat's work at the
Whitney? I don't know. But what I'm particularly
fascinated by is that I can't remember doing that
in probably decades, so something was there. (I
think the technical term for this is "The
Stendahl Effect" - the sudden onset of sobbing or
emotionalism in the presence of "great" art.
Rod
=
http://rostasi.8m.com
http://members.aol.com/HuntJerry/index.htm
"(oboe) was for opium...A movement was a pound, sixteen bars in a movement...He'd
(call me and) say 'I want six bars of the sonata for oboe'" - John Cale speaking of
how he and LaMonte Young used to execute drug deals ("What's Welsh for Zen")
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Re: FLUXLIST: Lunch with Cage
I was lucky enought to hear Cage speak or perform several times, spent 30 minutes with him in his NYC place during which he was bombarded with constant phone calls, went to his 70th birthday party and thought he was one of the most interesting and significant people I have ever met! Who was it that thought he was boring? -Don Boyd
FLUXLIST: Crabby Appleton
Yes, I remember Crabby Appleton. "He was rotten to the core." Can I sit down now? neal
Re: FLUXLIST: Fridge Over Troubled Water--Stories and sonics.
Terrence writes; I often have conversations make casual comments about sounds to the point where it's "oh look at that" = "oh listen to that". Also to tapping on things. Which ia a little more eccentric but rewarding. People seem to appreciate these ecentricvities and equate it to having a rare appreciation of the world. I also belive our moods are very much governed by the levels and kinds of sounds around us when we don't even relize it. Maybe that's what people realize too late that it was the sound of their partners voice or the street they live on has driven them crazy. Or that it was the soothing voice that motivated them or made them dream of good things. We all naturally apreciate the voice of a good singer so why not the good sounds of other things? When you think of it sounds have more force then we relise. The din of sound is more of a force than the din of images. Sounds always makes people curious as to their identity. A funny sound, an unusual sound, where is that sound coming from? What's making that noise? T. Lord Hasenpfeffer wrote: > > My stereo mic just arrived last week. It has a very long wire which > splits in the middle and extends even further down to two separate mics > at the ends. Each mic has its own little clothespin shaped clip attached > to it. In the very near future I intend to clip them both onto my shoes > and go walking about the main mall in downtown Tulsa during a lunch hour. > There is also a lot of construction going on there where a new building is > being erected. I'm also beginning to wonder what it sounds like down near > the pedals while I'm driving in my car. > > Myke
FLUXLIST: Here's another vote for greater care with the reply function
Friends, Here's another vote with Judy Hoffberg and Tamas S:t Auby for greater care with reply function. This past week has seen an increase in the use of reply function to answer brief questions and post short comments. At one point, one of those lengthy Buroughs passages was resent in its entirety simply to post a one-sentence response. On recent occasions, long passages and complete prior posts have been going by the second and third time simply to add a single line. In the days before electronic communication, it was possible to recall something by referring to it in a quick summary sentence before offering our own comment. Thanks. Ken --
Re: FLUXLIST: You've Got Crabs
Rod Stasick wrote: > "Crustacean's Literary Centre": > > http://web.lab.net/~lime/clc/the_clc.html > > (Does anyone remember Crabby Appleton?) > > Rod Rotten to the core! Sure. I remember when we first got the idea of eating the bait. In northern minnesota, people sometimes use crayfish for bait. No one ever eats them--god knows why, because I later discovered that in scandinavia they are a great delicacy. We had the notion that Louisiana crawfish were something different from our own crayfish. But one summer we had fished for a week w/o any luck, and the crayfish we used for bait were looking tempting. So we ate them. Fantasico. So we figured out how to make traps, wire cylinder, entry cone, put some fish guts in, and waited. Absolutely no luck. So then we figured out how to catch them by hand, at night, with flashlights. Not easy, but a great sport. Minnesota crayfish tend to be a little smaller than the southern ones, so you need about 80 or so for feast for two. That's hours of nighthunting, a few beers, falling in the water, etc. I'd recommend it to anyone. AK > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. > http://invites.yahoo.com
Re: FLUXLIST: Lunch with Cage
In a message dated 04/25/2000 11:06:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Back in 1976, the San Jose (CA) Symphony had a concert series featuring living and recently dead American composers. Cage came and "conducted" Atlas Eclipticalis. Having a connection with the orchestra, I was able to get into the reception and had a wonderful hour talking with Cage. He was funny, quite personable, and a little sad. I asked him about the booing... He said that he thought people by now would finally "get it." But from what I have heard the San Jose audience was much more well behaved during this piece than the NYC audience. I guess the booing finally hurt him. All in all, I am still very happy that I finally got to meet one of my childhood heroes. neal >> a few years before John Cage's death, I went to a concert that was part of a chamber music series put on by the State Department. the crowd was huge, and only about half got in to the first half of the concert. however, at the intermission so many who had been in the concert left that those who had remained were able to get in for the second half of the concert. Cage was there with the folk singer Helen Schneyer, and he seemed unpreturbed by the events... jb
Re: FLUXLIST: Lunch with Cage
> Some people's ideas of boring are boring. Hope so. Remember listening to Thoreau reading all night long, which was kind of "boring". Maybe you have to have some "willingness to like", you must bring with you some sympathy etc for the man, his work. Or it will not work. Maybe this is a general principle. Remember having walked once thru an exhibition asking myself what shit I once liked, Ben Vautier etc. Same with music, for example Live/Evil of Miles Davis. Maybe there isnt "objectiv" art, depends on moods etc.. what you do yourself, how you can live with the art or not, dont know.. Anyway, I was surprised on her findings, she wasnt the most stupid woman...
Re: FLUXLIST: Lunch with Cage
Heiko Recktenwald wrote: > Somebody was lucky enough to have lunch with Cage, who visited her Prof. > And she said he was absolutely uninteresting and boring, can you imagine > that ? Well, you know, we're not all of us on all the time. We're not dancing bears or performing seals, bound to amuse. Maybe he was having a boring sort of day. AK
Re: FLUXLIST: Lunch with Cage
Back in 1976, the San Jose (CA) Symphony had a concert series featuring living and recently dead American composers. Cage came and "conducted" Atlas Eclipticalis. Having a connection with the orchestra, I was able to get into the reception and had a wonderful hour talking with Cage. He was funny, quite personable, and a little sad. I asked him about the booing... He said that he thought people by now would finally "get it." But from what I have heard the San Jose audience was much more well behaved during this piece than the NYC audience. I guess the booing finally hurt him. All in all, I am still very happy that I finally got to meet one of my childhood heroes. neal
RE: FLUXLIST: Poetry
(as per constant request, I am scrubbing off the old material of this string, but this is about JOHN CAGE) Did Cage benefit George's garbageman? I guess that depends on how much george's garbageman listens to music, doesn't it? Reed, could you perhaps retire this kind of hairy-chested proletarianism? It's reminiscent of the posing my SWP friends did back in the early seventies. There's a period charm to it, but. > -Original Message- > From: Reed Altemus [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 9:44 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry > >
Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST-digest V1 #253 and all others
"Judith A. Hoffberg" wrote: > Any chance that many of you could use your mouse and get rid of the > messages to which you are responding--for the most part, it is redundant > and takes a lot of reading or erasing, or whatever. How about sweeping > that mouse over previous messages, trashing them, and sending us your pithy > remarks? Am I the only one who gets irritated? > I usually erase what I consider to be the irrelevant parts of sent messages to which I am responding, but I leave the parts that seem relevant to understanding my response. It's certainly possible that I'm erring on the side of redundancy-- AK
FLUXLIST: You've Got Crabs
"Crustacean's Literary Centre": http://web.lab.net/~lime/clc/the_clc.html (Does anyone remember Crabby Appleton?) Rod __ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com
Re: FLUXLIST: Lunch with Cage
Heiko:
Some people's ideas of boring are boring.
After 20 years of friendship and encouragements
(with dinners and various "get-togethers" with
him), I can readily say that John was not boring.
He wasn't the kind of "slap-you-on-the-back"
"hardee-har-har" kinda fella. His conversations
were not filled with the verbal detritus that
often fills the "uncomfortable" silences during a
conversation. Few words that were almost always
well-chosen. We could all learn from his economy
of words. Especially me!
Rod
--- Heiko Recktenwald
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Somebody was lucky enough to have lunch with
> Cage, who visited her Prof.
> And she said he was absolutely uninteresting
> and boring, can you imagine
> that ?
>
=
http://rostasi.8m.com
http://members.aol.com/HuntJerry/index.htm
"(oboe) was for opium...A movement was a pound, sixteen bars in a movement...He'd
(call me and) say 'I want six bars of the sonata for oboe'" - John Cale speaking of
how he and LaMonte Young used to execute drug deals ("What's Welsh for Zen")
__
Do You Yahoo!?
Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com
FLUXLIST: Lunch with Cage
Somebody was lucky enough to have lunch with Cage, who visited her Prof. And she said he was absolutely uninteresting and boring, can you imagine that ?
