Re: XML Graphics: board concerns
On 24.09.2004 02:54:25 Glen Mazza wrote: Jeremias Maerki wrote: Batik and FOP devs, things have been quiet but I finally know the reason. The board hasn't approved the creation of the XML Graphics project due to the following concern: They didn't recognize any names on the PMC list. Jeremias, this is just not plausible. How could they not recognize Jeremias Maerki, Joerg Pietschmann, or Thomas DeWeese? (Or even me? I've had several emails with Dirk and Ted, etc. over the past year.) Please explain further. I don't know what I can explain any further. I was as surprised as you are. I'm simply addressing concerns that have been brought to my attention. I could copy/paste Sam Ruby's original note here but that wouldn't give you any other clue. BTW, we're not the only ones that are affected by this. The Xalan people now face the exact same problem. They initially had only IBM and Sun people on the list, but not a single Apache member. Berin Lautenbach has to start offering his help in the Xalan PMC, sorry, Apache Xalan PMC, so the resolution has a chance to pass. Fact is that the board wants Apache members in the PMCs so I'm working on that. At least, I didn't make the mistake of omitting the Apache prefix in the name of the PMC. ;) Bertrand is primarily a Cocoon developer but FOP people know him as the FOP committer who brought his JFOR (FO to RTF converter) project into FOP. Ummm, wasn't Peter Herweg (whom Bertrand recommended) the FOP committer who brought JFOR into FOP, and the one who has maintained it for us since then? No, it was Bertrand. Peter has taken over maintenance afterwards. If one of the two would like to take the chair position I'd gladly restart a vote on that part. I'd like Finn Bock to be added to the PMC before we consider adding inactive committers. He's done mountains of work for the project over the past year or so, and it's important that his efforts be properly recognized on this project. Everyone had the chance to volunteer for the PMC. If Finn Bock says he wants that he can have it, even now. I'd be glad to count him in. But that doesn't address the board's concerns. Obviously, we need an Apache member, better two, in the PMC. It was you who suggested having outsiders in the project for oversight, so you shouldn't have a problem with Bertrand or Keiron, right? Jeremias Maerki
Re: Loading of extension element mappings.
Ok, let's go for FOUserAgent.addElementMapping(ElementMapping) then. No problem. On 24.09.2004 00:21:58 Glen Mazza wrote: --- Jeremias Maerki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I propose to change the API signature from FOUserAgent.addElementMapping(String) to FOUserAgent.addElementMapping(ElementMapping) Keep both, please. Unless there is a legitimate reason, I would strongly prefer choosing one or the other. These will be stored in a collection object, to be read by the FOTreeBuilder--right now, I see no reason for maintaining a string version as well, and then have subsequent code to merge the two from the two APIs. FOUserAgent.addElementMapping(ElementMapping) is a perfectly clean, acceptable API. (I originally went with the string version for future compatibility--ElementMapping can change to be something else instead but the API wouldn't have to change. But we can use the one you recommend instead for the reasons you have given.) Jeremias Maerki
Re: Remove image.JimiImage from HEAD?
Why are you so keen on removing stuff? I'd be more concerned about adding the stuff that's missing for an initial release. Jimi works fine for some people. No reason to remove this. On 24.09.2004 05:31:21 Glen Mazza wrote: (resending...having email problems) Team (probably Jeremias), According to [1] JIMI is for pre-Java2 JDK's (1.1 series). JAI is for 1.3 or later JDK's [2], which is FOP 1.0's area of concern. If so, does this mean we can get rid of image.JimiImage in HEAD, FOP 1.0 presumably not designed to support pre-1.3 anyway? Thanks, Glen [1] http://java.sun.com/products/jimi/ [2] http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/jai/INSTALL.html#SystemRequirements Jeremias Maerki
Re: XML Graphics: board concerns
Le 24 sept. 04, à 02:54, Glen Mazza a écrit : ...Ummm, wasn't Peter Herweg (whom Bertrand recommended) the FOP committer who brought JFOR into FOP, and the one who has maintained it for us since then?.. This part is not very relevant to the current discussion I think, but: I don't have a very good memory either...in your case I would recommend a good dose of mailing list archives before going to bed...maybe add some jfor.org bedtime reading ;-) Please don't rewrite history. And if you want to follow the jfor to FOP evolution in detail you're forgetting Victor Mote as well. ...I'd like Finn Bock to be added to the PMC before we consider adding inactive committers... Please be careful how you use the word inactive. I suspect this is targeted at me, in which case it is very right as I have done very little for FOP in actual code, but have you looked at the mountains of work that Keiron has done here earlier? I find dismissing him because he's *currently* inactive, without consideration for his former work, inappropriate (I was going to say unrespectful even). To sum up my position: I think the XML Graphics thing is a good idea, and connections to Cocoon are certainly good as well. As I said to Jeremias, I cannot promise much in terms of actual code contributions to the projects at this point, but if I can help by making connections between the projects I'm happy to do it. -Bertrand
Re: XML Graphics: board concerns
Following Glen Mazza's comments, I realize he's meant to be on the XML Graphics PMC as well (IIUC). In this case I think I prefer not to be part of the PMC. This deserves some explanation: I find it very hard to communicate efficiently in email with Glen, this morning for example it took me more than half an hour to reply to his false statements about jfor while trying to avoid a flame war. This is not the first time this happens, so it's probably not the last either. So, I think it would be too hard for me to sit on a PMC with Glen, I'm afraid it would use too much of my energy as it's so hard for me to communicate with him. Sorry for not realizing this earlier - the logical thing is probably for me to turn down the offer at this point, to avoid future problems which might hinder the PMC's progress. I suspect other people have a hard time coping with Glen's way of communicating here, but I won't talk for them - this is only about myself. Thanks for your understanding. -Bertrand
[VOTE:RESULT] Luca Furini for Committer
Looks like we don't get any more votes. Let's see: +1 from: Simon Pepping, Clay Leeds, Jeremias Maerki, Oleg Tkachenko, Finn Bock, Glen Mazza, Christian Geisert, Joerg Pietschmann, Bertrand Delacrétaz. (9 votes) No other votes. Luca, you are now a FOP committer. Now, some paper work. I need from you: Full name:Luca Furini Preferred userid: ___ (unix account name) Forwarding email address: _ Then you need to sign and send in the Contributor License Agreement (CLA) found here: http://www.apache.org/licenses/#clas. Only after the receipt of the signed CLA will your unix account be created, so you should do that quickly. Tell me when you've sent it away so I can then send the account request. http://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html Jeremias Maerki
Re: [VOTE:RESULT] Luca Furini for Committer
Jeremias Maerki wrote: Looks like we don't get any more votes. Let's see: +1 from: Simon Pepping, Clay Leeds, Jeremias Maerki, Oleg Tkachenko, Finn Bock, Glen Mazza, Christian Geisert, Joerg Pietschmann, Bertrand Delacrétaz. (9 votes) cough, cough. I did vote too. Sorry to be picky, but I want to make it clear that I think Luca really deserves committership. Congratulations, Luca. Chris
Re: [VOTE:RESULT] Luca Furini for Committer
Sorry, Chris, I don't have your vote on my radar [1]. Must have gone lost somewhere. [1] http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]by=threadfrom=883154 On 24.09.2004 10:04:49 Chris Bowditch wrote: Jeremias Maerki wrote: Looks like we don't get any more votes. Let's see: +1 from: Simon Pepping, Clay Leeds, Jeremias Maerki, Oleg Tkachenko, Finn Bock, Glen Mazza, Christian Geisert, Joerg Pietschmann, Bertrand Delacrétaz. (9 votes) cough, cough. I did vote too. Sorry to be picky, but I want to make it clear that I think Luca really deserves committership. Congratulations, Luca. Chris Jeremias Maerki
Re: XML Graphics: board concerns
Quoting Glen Mazza [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The board hasn't approved the creation of the XML Graphics project due to the following concern: They didn't recognize any names on the PMC list. Jeremias, this is just not plausible. How could they not recognize Jeremias Maerki, Joerg Pietschmann, or Thomas DeWeese? (Or even me? I've had several emails with Dirk and Ted, etc. over the past year.) Please explain further. Glen, No, it is not plausible. But that's what Greg Stein has told the pmc@ list (I think) in response to questions at to why the Xalan project was having problems getting off the ground. Not only is it implausible, it's downright outrageous, and a very fine example of a degree of incompetence in the current Board that asymptotically approaches totality. I've asked Jeremias how long this startling display took to get back from the Board. Peter
Re: [VOTE:RESULT] Luca Furini for Committer
Jeremias Maerki wrote: Sorry, Chris, I don't have your vote on my radar [1]. Must have gone lost somewhere. Thats Ok, I cant find it in the archives either, but it is in my sent items - odd really. Chris
Re: How much work is left before we can release HEAD?
Chris, thank you doing this. I think it's important to have a good instrument to determine our progress towards an initial release. I was a bit shocked when I summed up only the points you've marked as high priority: 20 weeks. It got me thinking and running all the example files again that I haven't run since early this year. Some still don't work, some don't work anymore. Some look surprisingly good. To your task list: Do you propose that all listed tasks should be completed prior to an initial release? I think that there is a number of tasks that are not really necessary for an 0.3, ex. floats, writing mode/BIDI, last page. It would be great if we could break down the things that need to be done into milestones. That may make it easier to communicate to the outside world what our progress is. And we would also know where we stand, because that's one of the biggest problem we currently have. Those who currently work on layout, how do you choose your work area? One big problem I currently see is testing properly. We don't have a good set of tests that we can simply run. The example document are all a big mess demonstrating several features at once. Sometimes I don't even understand how it should (!) look. Personally, I'd add one important, high priority task to the list: (Finally) creating a good test/QS environment along with several simple documents each training a single feature. Attached to this task should/could be the Java2D renderer which we can used to easily create comparable bitmaps. I don't believe in MD5 checking of PDF at this stage. That may be good as soon as we're in the maintenance phase again. Every now and then we get asked when there will be a next release. We need to have some kind of answer for them. A good answer may even make some company boss invest into FOP because he sees the end of the tunnel. I think we will never get there if we target the full feature set for the initial release. We can't but break down the whole thing into manageable parts. Food for flamesas usual. On 22.09.2004 16:35:51 Chris Bowditch wrote: Team, I have been trying to work out what is left to do be done before we can do an initial release of HEAD, 0.3, say. I know some of you will prefer to aim for a 1.0 and get everything right first time, but please bear with me. I have consolidated the layout issues from [1] and [2] The infrastructure items listed in [1] I feel are good enough for a 0.3 release. This is largely thanks to work from Glen, Finn, Simon, Luca, Peter, Jeremias and the other committers. Sorry if Ive missed anyone. Anyway, i have created a wiki containing the work items along with my opinion of priority and a finger in the air time estimates: http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?FOPWorkEstimates I would very much appreciate some feedback. Chris [1] http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?FOPProjectTasks [2] http://xml.apache.org/fop/design/layout.html#status-todo Jeremias Maerki
