Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch

[Thomas Levine]

Also, despite the inconvenience of using a web browser, I anticipate that this 
feature will be very helpful for me.
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Re: [fossil-users] Backups of deconstructed fossil repositories

[Thomas Levine]

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018, at 20:05, Warren Young wrote:
> However, I’ll also give a counterargument to the whole idea: you 
> probably aren’t saving anything in the end.  An intelligent deconstruct 
> + backup probably saves no net I/O over just re-copying the Fossil repo 
> DB to the destination unless the destination is *much* slower than the 
> machine being backed up.
> 
> (rsync was created for the common case where networks are much slower 
> than the computers they connect.  rsync within a single computer is 
> generally no faster than cp -r, and sometimes slower, unless you take 
> the mtime optimization mentioned above.)
> 
> The VM/ZFS + snapshots case has a similar argument against it: if you’re 
> using snapshots to back up a Fossil repo, deconstruction isn’t helpful.  
> The snapshot/CoW mechanism will only clone the changed disk blocks in 
> the repo.
> 
> So, what problem are you solving?  If it isn’t the slow-networks 
> problem, I suspect you’ve got an instance of the premature optimization 
> problem here.  If you go ahead and implement it, measure before 
> committing the change, and if you measure a meaningful difference, 
> document the conditions to help guide expectations.

I want my approximately daily backups to be small.

I currently version the fossil SQLite files in borg, and I am considering 
versioning instead the artefact dumps. I figure these will change less than the 
SQLite files do and that they also will be smaller because they lack caches.

But the backups are already very small.

I suppose I could test this.
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[fossil-users] Backups of deconstructed fossil repositories

[Thomas Levine]

As content is added to a fossil repository, files in the corresponding
deconstructed repository never change; they are only added. Most backup
software will track changes to the deconstructed repository with great
efficiency.

I should thus take my backups of the deconstructed repositories, yes?
That is, should I back up the SQLite database format of the fossil
repository or the deconstructed directory format of the repository?

One inconvenience I noted is that the deconstruct command always writes
artefacts to the filesystem, even if a file of the appropriate name and
size and contents already exists. Would the developers welcome a flag
to blob_write_to_file in src/blob.c to skip the writing of a new
artefact file if the file already exists? That is, rebuild_step in
src/rebuild.c would check for the existance of the file corresponding
the artefact's hash, and if such a file exists already (even if its
content is wrong), rebuild_step would skip writing this artefact.
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Re: [fossil-users] Perception of Fossil

[Thomas]

On 2018-06-15 00:32, Chad Perrin wrote:

Pull requests are not supported, hence the software can't be used for
community driven open source.


The pull request interface on GitHub is a feature of GitHub, not of Git.
While it would be nice to have a similar feature built into the Fossil
web UI, doing it the same way would require having a centralized website
on which to implement it.  Something similar could theoretically be
supported in Fossil itself, but would not be identical to the way
GitHub's pull request feature works.


Yes, sorry for the ambiguity. When people talk about git they 
automatically mean github.


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[fossil-users] Mailing list or forum - summary

[Thomas]

I'll try to get some summary together. Let's see how I can perform to 
find all the evidence given so far for a mailing list. As it currently 
is a mailing list I got all those texts in my inbox and extracted them 
from there :)


Please help me if I overlooked some.

Those are some of the statements made by "pro mailing list" members so far:

- Yes, the world is going to hell in our lifetime.
- At this rate, I suggest we start using reddit more, it's at least more
diverse than a single stand alone forum.
- OK, I guess that makes it pretty clear that your knowledge of mail
handling is limited.
- Can you please just stop trolling? Everyone else, please ignore
"Thomas".

q.e.d.

:)
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Re: [fossil-users] [sqlite] Mailing list shutting down...

[Thomas]

On 2018-06-14 23:19, Warren Young wrote:

I just checked, and for the flight I’ll be on, it’ll cost me about 1/10 the 
monthly cost of my residential Internet service, per device.  If I want to use 
my phone, tablet, and laptop, that’s 3/10 my monthly cost for a few hours of 
terrible service.


That means again that it's probably better not to answer any support 
requests from this mailing list, which you will have downloaded eons ago 
already nonetheless (since you got no internet access). Your replies 
might be terribly outdated once you roll in to the nearest free wifi.


I actually find it quite amusing that some people seem to be so 
personally involved in their favour of a mailing list over a forum, 
while this discussion has ceased for pretty much any other software 
product already, and many people even getting very personal, including 
insults.

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Re: [fossil-users] Perception of Fossil

[Thomas]

On 2018-06-14 23:19, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote:

Can you please just stop trolling? Everyone else, please ignore
"Thomas".


I wasn't aware that communism has taken over Germany or the US yet.

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Re: [fossil-users] Perception of Fossil

[Thomas]

On 2018-06-14 23:09, Warren Young wrote:

On Jun 14, 2018, at 4:04 PM, Thomas  wrote:

As far as I can see until now you got to create an account for every 
contributor yourself.


I think that’s a feature in a web service that, currently, has no way to do 
email verification.  Else, spammers again.

One presumes that if Fossil gets a forum feature with email gatewaying, 
*optional* self-registration will come along with it.

Many Fossil instance admins will want to turn such a feature off, since 
invite-only is how they want it in the first place.


That's the way I see it too. Fossil has many issues that prevent it from 
being used for first-time users, or git users. Once they start off 
the're struggling to get it working they expect it to.


That's not because the software is bad (the opposite is the case, in my 
opinion it's much better than most of the other version control systems) 
but it lacks what standard users require.


It claims to be an all-in-one solution but doesn't allow 
self-registration and doesn't support pull requests -> That makes it a 
no-go for open-source projects. Most news users expect this to be a 
"that goes without saying".


It claims to be easy to install and set up but doesn't come with a 
pre-defined exclusion list -> Leaving newbies with megabytes of useless 
and even private data in their fresh repositories they can't get rid of 
easily again. I remember that it took me over 80 hours to understand the 
principles and finally get rid of all the crap in the repository left 
after the first few check-ins.


There's not even a single source of information that would tell you how 
to permanently delete files that were never meant to be in the 
repository. That's a no-go for open-source projects.


Then you get this, just a few minutes ago:
"Can you please just stop trolling? Everyone else, please ignore
"Thomas".

:-(
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Re: [fossil-users] Perception of Fossil

[Thomas]

On 2018-06-14 23:09, Warren Young wrote:

On Jun 14, 2018, at 4:04 PM, Thomas  wrote:

As far as I can see until now you got to create an account for every 
contributor yourself.


I think that’s a feature in a web service that, currently, has no way to do 
email verification.  Else, spammers again.

One presumes that if Fossil gets a forum feature with email gatewaying, 
*optional* self-registration will come along with it.

Many Fossil instance admins will want to turn such a feature off, since 
invite-only is how they want it in the first place.


That's the way I see it too. Fossil has many issues that prevent it from 
being used for first-time users, or git users. Once they start off 
the're struggling to get it working they expect it to.


That's not because the software is bad (the opposite is the case, in my 
opinion it's much better than most of the other version control systems) 
but it lacks what standard users require.


It claims to be an all-in-one solution but doesn't allow 
self-registration and doesn't support pull requests -> That makes it a 
no-go for open-source projects. Most news users expect this to be a 
"that goes without saying".


It claims to be easy to install and set up but doesn't come with a 
pre-defined exclusion list -> Leaving newbies with megabytes of useless 
and even private data in their fresh repositories they can't get rid of 
easily again. I remember that it took me over 80 hours to understand the 
principle and finally get rid of all the crap in the repository left 
after the first few check-ins.


There's not even a single source of information that would tell you how 
to permanently delete files that were never meant to be in the 
repository. That's a no-go for open-source projects.


Then you get this, just a minute ago:
"Can you please just stop trolling? Everyone else, please ignore
"Thomas".

;-(
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Re: [fossil-users] Perception of Fossil

[Thomas]

On 2018-06-14 21:59, Thomas wrote:

On 2018-06-14 21:51, Ron W wrote:

In another forum I follow,a commented claims that Fossil is designed for
"cathedral development" not "bazaar development", so would be of little
interest to anyone. Unfortunately, the poster did not elaborate on why.

Except maybe possible issues scaling to a large number of contributors, I
don't see how Fossil is less suitable for  "bazaar development" than 
git or

Hg.

Thoughts?


Pull requests are not supported, hence the software can't be used for 
community driven open source.


I forgot to mention that self-registration is something that comes along 
the same line. I haven't managed to get this working with Fossil yet either.


As far as I can see until now you got to create an account for every 
contributor yourself.

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Re: [fossil-users] [sqlite] Mailing list shutting down...

[Thomas]

In that case I'm sorry that your email replies to a mailing list will be 
outdated by the time you'll reach civilisation again.


Better don't reply then.


On 2018-06-14 22:38, Roy Keene wrote:

Yes.  Quite a lot.

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018, Thomas wrote:


On 2018-06-14 22:21, Warren Young wrote:
I expect to have no Internet access in the plane I will be aboard 
shortly.


I'm not aware of any airline that doesn't provide internet access on 
long-haul flights. Is there still one left?

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Re: [fossil-users] Perception of Fossil

[Thomas]

On 2018-06-14 22:37, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote:

How do I develop a patch locally and send it to someone for review? The
pull request model is kind of stupid and works only for a centralized
system (the irony...), but integration of something like "patchbomb" or
even just bundles is quite handy for this.


The pull request is exactly this. Sending a patch via mail or mailing 
list like the dinosaurs did is not going to make it more appealing.


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Re: [fossil-users] [sqlite] Mailing list shutting down...

[Thomas]

On 2018-06-14 22:21, Warren Young wrote:

I expect to have no Internet access in the plane I will be aboard shortly.


I'm not aware of any airline that doesn't provide internet access on 
long-haul flights. Is there still one left?

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Re: [fossil-users] [sqlite] Mailing list shutting down...

[Thomas]

On 2018-06-14 22:21, Warren Young wrote:

What of the other direction?  People like Jörg are more likely to be answering 
questions than asking them.  Why not write answers while offline, then sync the 
answers when back on-network?  Email lists, Usenet, and my proposed Fossil 
Forum Feature allow this.  Web forums generally do not.


Yeah, I've seen this before.

- 1) Can you help me please?
- 1) Ah, sorry, solved it myself.
- 2) Reply: you should do xy...

:-)

When you're offline, you really shouldn't touch any conversation.

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Re: [fossil-users] [sqlite] Mailing list shutting down...

[Thomas]

On 2018-06-14 21:47, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote:

I've had to deal with my share of fori. Frankly, they all suck for power
users, often badly. While mailing lists do tend to be a bit more
annoying than newsgroups, they nevertheless share the majority of
advantages. Offline access, decent filtering etc. Heck, a lot of fori
programs still hasn't even managed good threading.


Another example of the past. We're online 24/7 nowadays. Offline access 
is not required anymore.


In case you really need some help while offline, I cannot imagine how 
you'd be able to get a request for help out better via mail than 
dropping off a forum post when you're offline. - Ouch! :-(

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Re: [fossil-users] Perception of Fossil

[Thomas]

On 2018-06-14 21:51, Ron W wrote:

In another forum I follow,a commented claims that Fossil is designed for
"cathedral development" not "bazaar development", so would be of little
interest to anyone. Unfortunately, the poster did not elaborate on why.

Except maybe possible issues scaling to a large number of contributors, I
don't see how Fossil is less suitable for  "bazaar development" than git or
Hg.

Thoughts?


Pull requests are not supported, hence the software can't be used for 
community driven open source.


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Re: [fossil-users] [sqlite] Mailing list shutting down...

[Thomas]

On 2018-06-14 21:40, jungle Boogie wrote:

On 14 June 2018 at 13:30, Thomas  wrote:

Web forums are much more superior than mailing lists, in any possible
direction.



Ah, yes, superior.
https://xkcd.com/979/

At this rate, I suggest we start using reddit more, it's at least more
diverse than a single stand alone forum.
https://www.reddit.com/r/sqlite/


Dinosaurs died out around 60 000 000 years before humans evolved.
No one can escape progress, no matter how hard some are clinging on the 
past.

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Re: [fossil-users] [sqlite] Mailing list shutting down...

[Thomas]

Web forums are much more superior than mailing lists, in any possible 
direction.


There's nothing a mailing list can provide a forum can't, since it 
doesn't exclude email notifications.


However, there's loads of benefits a forum provides a mailing list can't 
catch up with.


That's the reason why mailing lists are disappearing.


On 2018-06-14 21:02, sky5w...@gmail.com wrote:

  Ha! I can see there are strong opposing opinions for mail vs forum.
I find forums more neatly packaged.
Mailing lists are not easily browsed or searched for relevant terms.
Some run on mail topics are a pain to find the nugget of information
desired.
Forum responses can have votes or kudos assigned which hasten searches.
Still, you will suffer spammers in the forum as bots have figured the user
request pages.
With Fossil's unversioned content, the forum or mail bloat can be minimized.

On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 3:59 PM, Warren Young  wrote:


On Jun 14, 2018, at 1:36 PM, Thomas  wrote:


no one wants to see all those in their inbox.


Mailing list messages are easily filtered.

I have one mailbox for each mailing list I subscribe to, and I read
through the messages in list order, which makes it easy to mentally switch
gears from one project to the next.

If one project gets out of hand for a while, I can mark only that one
mailbox as “read” without declaring email bankruptcy on all my other email.
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Re: [fossil-users] [sqlite] Mailing list shutting down...

[Thomas]

On 2018-06-14 20:59, Warren Young wrote:

On Jun 14, 2018, at 1:36 PM, Thomas  wrote:


no one wants to see all those in their inbox.


Mailing list messages are easily filtered.

I have one mailbox for each mailing list I subscribe to, and I read through the 
messages in list order, which makes it easy to mentally switch gears from one 
project to the next.


Most people only have one mailbox. I presume you're referring to folders.



If one project gets out of hand for a while, I can mark only that one mailbox 
as “read” without declaring email bankruptcy on all my other email.


Forum software offers the very same functionality but that's not the 
direct purpose of it. In a mailing list you're either "in" or "out". A 
forum provides all possible options.

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Re: [fossil-users] [sqlite] Mailing list shutting down...

[Thomas]

On 2018-06-14 20:51, John Long wrote:

A decent email client can run on a terminal, over ssh or telnet, etc.
and can handle all sorts of filtering and searching. Most mailing lists


I just checked the calendar. It's the 21st century here. Not sure how 
many terminals, telnets or SSH sessions average users got open but I 
reckon that a good guess of less than a promille might be more precise 
than you may imagine...



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Re: [fossil-users] [sqlite] Mailing list shutting down...

[Thomas]

On 2018-06-14 17:47, Roy Keene wrote:
If it's any conideration, if it's not a mailing list or something else 
pushed to me, I'll never see it.  A fossil users' forum will never get 
checked (pulled) by me since I am just too lazy to remember to do so on 
any regular frequency.  There may be others like me who are busy but can 
occasionally check email.


Mailing lists in general are disappearing and forums are coming in more 
and more. There surely are loads of reasons but I'd like to only point 
out that once the amount of posts increases no one wants to see all 
those in their inbox.

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Re: [fossil-users] Export to SVN?

[Thomas Burdick]

Le 13/06/2018 19:35, « Stéphane Aulery »  a écrit :
  
Hello,

Le 13/06/2018 à 16:16, Thomas Burdick a écrit :
> 
> I’m interested in experimenting with Fossil as a replacement for svn for 
> a large-ish project I work on. I saw that import can import a dumped svn 
> repository, but there’s no export option for svn. Would adding one be a 
> lot of work?

Maybe you can do Fossil > Git > SVN

[ ... ]

Git > SVN seems painfull.

Yes, it is. I'd rather try to get a Fossil > SVN flow working than deal with 
Git > SVN.

Regards,
Thomas

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[fossil-users] Export to SVN?

[Thomas Burdick]

Hello,

I’m interested in experimenting with Fossil as a replacement for svn for a 
large-ish project I work on. I saw that import can import a dumped svn 
repository, but there’s no export option for svn. Would adding one be a lot of 
work?

(Seems I have interesting timing with my subscription to the list, but I made 
it in under the gun)

Thanks for any pointers,
Thomas
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Re: [fossil-users] Mailing list shutting down...

[Thomas Burdick]

Le 13/06/2018 16:05, « fossil-users au nom de Richard Hipp » 
 a écrit :

I would like to provide users the option to send messages formatted
using Markdown.  Are there Markdown libraries available in TCL that I
can use, that you know of?

There is, and it's MIT licensed, too.
https://core.tcl.tk/tcllib/doc/trunk/embedded/www/tcllib/files/modules/markdown/markdown.html
https://core.tcl.tk/tcllib/artifact/cf491fc7741e1a23
 

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Re: [fossil-users] Error message unreadable repository

[Thomas]

On 2018-05-04 14:37, Richard Hipp wrote:

On 5/4/18, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com> wrote:

On 2018-05-04 13:56, Thomas wrote:

On 2018-05-04 13:48, Richard Hipp wrote:

On 5/4/18, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com> wrote:


I keep receiving this error with one of my repositories:

Fossil internal error: repository does not exist or is in an unreadable
directory: C:/PathToRepository/.fossil


What do you do to generate this error?


Anthing apart from "version" and "help".

For instance "remote-url", "settings", "ui", really anything.


Sorry, more precise would be: anything that accesses the repository.
Is there a command that lets you overwrite its name?
Because Fossil is actually right. The file doesn't exist. it is
ao.fossil (C:/PathToRepository/ao.fossil).


Try this:

 fossil test-move-repo c:/pathtorepository/ao.fossil

Let us know whether or not it clears the problem.


This fixed it. Thanks.



How did you get this into the current state?


I have no idea. I hadn't used this repository for a few months but I 
doubt that the age alone caused it. ;-)

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Re: [fossil-users] Error message unreadable repository

[Thomas]

On 2018-05-04 13:56, Thomas wrote:

On 2018-05-04 13:48, Richard Hipp wrote:

On 5/4/18, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com> wrote:


I keep receiving this error with one of my repositories:

Fossil internal error: repository does not exist or is in an unreadable
directory: C:/PathToRepository/.fossil


What do you do to generate this error?


Anthing apart from "version" and "help".

For instance "remote-url", "settings", "ui", really anything.


Sorry, more precise would be: anything that accesses the repository.
Is there a command that lets you overwrite its name?
Because Fossil is actually right. The file doesn't exist. it is 
ao.fossil (C:/PathToRepository/ao.fossil).

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Re: [fossil-users] Error message unreadable repository

[Thomas]

On 2018-05-04 13:48, Richard Hipp wrote:

On 5/4/18, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com> wrote:


I keep receiving this error with one of my repositories:

Fossil internal error: repository does not exist or is in an unreadable
directory: C:/PathToRepository/.fossil


What do you do to generate this error?


Anthing apart from "version" and "help".

For instance "remote-url", "settings", "ui", really anything.

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[fossil-users] Error message unreadable repository

[Thomas]

I keep receiving this error with one of my repositories:

Fossil internal error: repository does not exist or is in an unreadable 
directory: C:/PathToRepository/.fossil


The reporitory is called ao.fossil. It seems that "ao" part is missing. 
Correct would be "C:/PathToRepository/ao.fossil".


Fossil version
"This is fossil version 2.5 [188a0e2904] 2018-02-07 18:48:14 UTC"
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Re: [fossil-users] Moving Wiki/MD files between Wiki list on web UI and source tree, and previewing

[Thomas]

On 2018-03-13 17:37, Warren Young wrote:

On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:33 AM, Warren Young  wrote:


The examples above both show how you can have a common list of documentation 
that points to multiple sources.  My project’s example shows a manually-curated 
list, whereas the Fossil project example shows an automatically-generated 
index, done with the www/mkindex.tcl script in the Fossil source tree.


Also, realize that the links at the top of each Fossil UI page are just 
elements of the Header part of the skin.  drh has pointed his “Docs” link to 
his script-generated permuted index, and in my PiDP-8/I project, I’ve adjusted 
the “Wiki” link to point to /wcontent rather than to /wiki, which I think makes 
more sense.


I think this should be the default when clicking on Wiki in the top menu 
(/wcontent). This /wiki is somehow odd and needs getting used to.


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[fossil-users] Documentation requests

[Thomas Levine]

In the discussion of "Setting up an internet Fossil server",
Richard Hipp wrote:
> There is no step-by-step guide right now, but it would be great if you
> could write one up and contribute it!

I happen to like writing documentation. Are there other particular things
that are requested often but not well documented? Because I might write
the documentation.

In the case of the fossil web server setup, for example, I envision
an almost patronizing tutorial on alternative web server configuration
options, the concept of proxy servers, installation of packages in
various operating systems or web hosts, and how to debug web server
configurations.
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Re: [fossil-users] Setting up an internet Fossil server

[Thomas Levine]

Since it seems that the only dynamic stuff is in PHP and fossil,
I suggest using Apache mod_php and mod_cgi (contrary to Warren's
suggestion), as I think the configuration will be easier.

If that is an option, you can copy my configuration. I have a file in my
web root called "scm" that says this:

  #!/usr/bin/env fossil
  directory: /home/protected/r
  repolist

That file is marked as a CGI script, as in this template that generates
the htaccess file.
https://thomaslevine.com/scm/dadaportal/artifact?ln=6..8=ddbddcaaac7287d8

The repositories are in /home/protected/r.

It corresponds to this web page.
https://thomaslevine.com/scm

You would of course have to switch the rest of your configuration to
Apache, but that might be very easy.
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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil with IPv6 support on Windows XP

[Thomas Schnurrenberger]

On 03.01.2018 23:33, Florian Balmer wrote:
> The startup delay for `fossil ui' and `fossil server' on Windows XP is
> more obvious than possibly sluggish browser navigation, which I
> *think* is due to waiting for StartServiceCtrlDispatcherW. This could
> be cut down by skipping the call to StartServiceCtrlDispatcherW for
> the `ui' and `server' commands, as Fossil always runs in a console
> session, and not as a service, in these cases.
> 
I measured the time it takes to call StartServiceCtrlDispatcherW on my
8 year old Windows 7 64bit box: roughly 600 microseconds, I don't think
this is noticeable!

This is the program for taking the time:

* Start of code *
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 

static void WINAPI win32_http_service_main(
  DWORD argc,
  LPWSTR *argv
){
  return;
}

int main(void){
  LARGE_INTEGER Frequency;
  LARGE_INTEGER StartingTime;
  LARGE_INTEGER EndingTime;
  LARGE_INTEGER ElapsedMicroseconds;
  doubleElapsedSeconds;
  int   rc = 0;

  /* Define the service table. */
  SERVICE_TABLE_ENTRYW ServiceTable[] =
{{L"", (LPSERVICE_MAIN_FUNCTIONW)win32_http_service_main},
 {NULL, NULL}};

  /* Get frequency and the start time. */
  QueryPerformanceFrequency();
  QueryPerformanceCounter();

  /* Activity to be timed */
  if( !StartServiceCtrlDispatcherW(ServiceTable) ){
if( GetLastError()==ERROR_FAILED_SERVICE_CONTROLLER_CONNECT ){
  rc = 1;
}else{
  rc = 2;
}
  }
  /* Get end time and convert to seconds. */
  QueryPerformanceCounter();
  ElapsedMicroseconds.QuadPart = EndingTime.QuadPart
   - StartingTime.QuadPart;
  ElapsedMicroseconds.QuadPart *= 100;
  ElapsedMicroseconds.QuadPart /= Frequency.QuadPart;
  ElapsedSeconds = (double)(EndingTime.QuadPart
  - StartingTime.QuadPart)/Frequency.QuadPart;
  printf("Elapsed microseconds: %"PRId64"\n",
 ElapsedMicroseconds.QuadPart);
  printf("Elapsed seconds : %f\n", ElapsedSeconds);
  printf("rc  : %d\n", rc);

  return 0;
}
* End of code *****

It would be interesting to known time on your XP boxes.

-- 
Thomas Schnurrenberger
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Re: [fossil-users] fossil server on a small private LAN

[Thomas]

Oh, and this is not a Windows thingy.

For Linux:
#include 
#include 

http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man7/ipv6.7.html


On 2017-12-29 02:23, Thomas wrote:

On 2017-12-29 01:17, Richard Hipp wrote:

On 12/28/17, Olivier Mascia <o...@integral.be> wrote:
To get a proper dual-stack socket, the socket must be created with 
AF_INET6

first then setsockopt(s, IPPROTO_IPV6, IPV6_V6ONLY,...)


When I try to do this I get:  error C2065: 'IPV6_V6ONLY': undeclared 
identifier


MSVC 2015


MSVC 2015 here too, and no error.

Maybe the SDK is too old, no idea.

Check the bottom of 
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms738574(v=vs.85).aspx 
.


This could be an option too:
#ifndef IPV6_V6ONLY
#define IPV6_V6ONLY 27
#endif
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Re: [fossil-users] fossil server on a small private LAN

[Thomas]

On 2017-12-29 01:17, Richard Hipp wrote:

On 12/28/17, Olivier Mascia  wrote:

To get a proper dual-stack socket, the socket must be created with AF_INET6
first then setsockopt(s, IPPROTO_IPV6, IPV6_V6ONLY,...)


When I try to do this I get:  error C2065: 'IPV6_V6ONLY': undeclared identifier

MSVC 2015


MSVC 2015 here too, and no error.

Maybe the SDK is too old, no idea.

Check the bottom of 
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms738574(v=vs.85).aspx 
.


This could be an option too:
#ifndef IPV6_V6ONLY
#define IPV6_V6ONLY 27
#endif
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Re: [fossil-users] Rebrand Fossil as "Blockchain-VCS"...

[Thomas Levine]

The other distributed version control systems are all blockchains too,
yes?

I find the term "distributed ledger" more interesting, as I store the
accounts for my unincorporated server cooperative in GNU ledger format,
controlled redundantly in git (for my colleagues) and fossil (for me).

This distributed ledger is private, 2.4mb in size (including many other
files, such as copies of invoices), and portable. If my colleagues would
use fossil instead of git, the history would be immutable. I appreciate
the possibility to store far more complex information than is convenient
in Bitcoin, but if I were to restrict the information to what is stored
in Bitcoin, I could represent a transaction history in something like
one-tenth the space that it would take up in Bitcoin.

Fossil is far superior to Bitcoin for situations where you can weakly
trust the other people who are editing your ledger.
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Re: [fossil-users] TAB size in displayed content

[Thomas]

Nice long expanation. Thanks.

On 2017-12-11 22:55, Warren Young wrote:

notepad.exe and Internet Explorer also obey the 8-character tab standard.  Go 
tell Microsoft it is wrong, too.


I'm not sure how many people use notepad.exe to edit source code or to 
write software from scratch, though, or Microsoft Internet Explorer for 
that matter. :)


For Windows, I reckon it's going to be either Notepad++, Visual Studio, 
Android Studio, Qt, Code Blocks, or or or...


I haven't seen or worked with any development environment or source code 
editor within the past quarter of a century that didn't let you change 
the tab size with more than a few mouse clicks. The standard for almost 
all of them right now and out of the box is 4.


I'm sure it was 8 when punch cards were state of the art. I agree with you.



It is: Fossil lets you modify the skin to suit your taste.


I tried. I failed. It seems it requires more than just a one-liner to 
change it in Fossil. Unless there's something I overlooked.


I've used some PHP highlighting scripts in the past to insert code 
fragments into web pages that let you configure the tab size very easily.


I found this for github:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8833953/how-to-change-tab-size-on-github

That link uses this example:
https://github.com/jquery/jquery/blob/master/src/core.js?ts=2

The parameter ts= seems to do the trick.
https://github.com/jquery/jquery/blob/master/src/core.js?ts=4
https://github.com/jquery/jquery/blob/master/src/core.js?ts=8
https://github.com/jquery/jquery/blob/master/src/core.js?ts=16

The last one doesn't work, so 8 is obviously the maximum.

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Re: [fossil-users] TAB size in displayed content

[Thomas]

On 2017-12-11 21:47, Warren Young wrote:

Try this > echo -e "\tHi" | cat


Tried it just now.

'cat' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.



It’s indented 8 spaces, isn’t it?  Are you now going to go try and get your 
terminal emulator to change as well?  Good luck!


I'm not using a terminal emulator of any kind.
And if I did the last thing that would come into my mind would be 
printing out the contents of a file. There's way better tools for this.




If you want to say tabs are always 4 characters in your project, feel free to 
change your local skin, but Fossil is right to leave this default alone.


Of course they're not but 4 is a much better value than the 8 currently 
used. Maybe it should be configurable somehow.


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[fossil-users] TAB size in displayed content

[Thomas]

It seems lots of changes regarding Fossil's web appearance are going on 
at the moment.


I'm not particularly skilled when it comes to CSS but from what I've 
looked up so far it seems the reason why horizontal tabs in artifacts 
are 8 characters wide is because { tab-size: 4; } doesn't appear.


Wouldn't it make sense to add this so that the /artifact, /fdiff etc 
pages fall back to 4 instead of 8?


Unless of course, my assumption is wrong and the real reason is a 
different one. :-)

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Re: [fossil-users] Trolling GitHub for ideas

[Thomas Levine]

The main GitHub feature that I would like is directions as to how to
download and check out the repository. I like to implement this in
fossil as a footer.
https://thomaslevine.com/scm/langrompiloj/

I believe that someone mentioned this feature in the Fossil-NG Bloat
thread, but I can't find the message at the moment.
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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil-NG Bloat?

[Thomas]

On 2017-11-22 22:43, Thomas wrote:
That was also my understanding in the beginning but it turned out I was 
(terribly) wrong. You got to synchronise them manually, and then they're 
not pulled automatically either.


I second this approach. Since Fossil already uses "unversioned" for the 
current implementation, and I believe it might otherwise confuse users 
used to the current process, I'd suggest a different name for a more 
natural "unversioned" behaviour.


Laymen would understand "unversioned" like normal files (or artifacts) 
without history tracking. You just want to add them to the repository 
without keeping less recent versions. Absolutely natural in my opinion. 
The most recent version is uploaded and kept. Previous versions 
disappear into nimbo.


How about calling this suggested new behaviour "historyless artifacts"?


Or "historyless content"?

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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil-NG Bloat?

[Thomas]

On 2017-11-22 22:27, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:

2) Allow me to designate any file in the directory structure as
unversioned.  The current unversioning model does not work well for
me.  It essentially is equivalent to Dropbox. I am working with
PharoJS which produces Javascript files from Smalltalk code. I want my
source code and the generated code in Fossil. I also have movies and
image files that I want in particular places.  I realize the Fossil
model is to be able to revert to exactly the state of things on
such-and-such a date, including the versions of movies and images as
they were, but I - at least - very rarely care that images and movies
are exactly as they were, I'd almost always be perfectly happy using
the current version. An ideal alternative would be to have versioned
files but where it only kept snapshots of versions I explicitly asked
for, otherwise it would just update the current version.


I'm still trying to understand unversioned files. What I would like is
to make them sync automatically when the rest of the repo is
synchronized (via sync or commit). Something like if the unversioned
file changed locally, just send the new version to the remote repo. If
that is the intended behavior, there is something in the workflow I'm
missing.


That was also my understanding in the beginning but it turned out I was 
(terribly) wrong. You got to synchronise them manually, and then they're 
not pulled automatically either.


I second this approach. Since Fossil already uses "unversioned" for the 
current implementation, and I believe it might otherwise confuse users 
used to the current process, I'd suggest a different name for a more 
natural "unversioned" behaviour.


Laymen would understand "unversioned" like normal files (or artifacts) 
without history tracking. You just want to add them to the repository 
without keeping less recent versions. Absolutely natural in my opinion. 
The most recent version is uploaded and kept. Previous versions 
disappear into nimbo.


How about calling this suggested new behaviour "historyless artifacts"?
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[fossil-users] [Nmh-workers] Merging Source Files with git. (fwd)

[Thomas Levine]

Ralph asks whether a particular feature is available in git,
so I am curious, is it available in fossil?

--- Forwarded Message

Date:Fri, 10 Nov 2017 23:51:07 +
From:Ralph Corderoy 
To:  nmh-work...@nongnu.org
Subject: [Nmh-workers] Merging Source Files with git.

Hi,

I'm in the Augean process of creating .h interface files for each of the
.c implementation files, depleting h/prototypes.h of content along the
way, to help show the dependencies between the modules.  Something
that's obvious before and during is there's too many one-function C
files, often with a piddly little functions, and a whole clutch of them
are related.

This suggests foo_{add,del,find,save,tweak}.c should in time become
foo.c, allowing globals to become statics in foo.c, and currently global
structs, etc., to also move to foo.c.  Is there a good way of doing
this, in multiple stages if necessary, that allows git to preserve the
chain of history?  Say telling it foo_add.c is now foo.c in one commit,
and then foo_del.c has merged with foo.c in the next.

- -- 
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy

- -- 
Nmh-workers
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers

--- End of Forwarded Message
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Re: [fossil-users] WAL mode with new repository

[Thomas]

On 2017-11-10 03:05, Richard Hipp wrote:

On 11/9/17, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com> wrote:

When a new repository is created with "fossil new.fossil --template
old.fossil" the WAL mode is not distributed to the new repository. Is
there a particular reason for this?



No particular reason.  I suppose nobody (before you) thought it was
important or desirable.  


Thanks for the quick reply.

I just wondered why it's suggested to turn WAL mode on but then not 
copied into a new repo. Basically, I was tempted to change my collection 
of fossil repos back to no WAL mode. ;-)



Will you be submitting a patch? :-)

Just had a look at db_initial_setup in db.c. I wouldn't know where to 
start copying a setting from an SQLite database to another one but SQL 
is certainly on my to-do list for the centuries to come. ;-)

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[fossil-users] WAL mode with new repository

[Thomas]

Heya,

When a new repository is created with "fossil new.fossil --template 
old.fossil" the WAL mode is not distributed to the new repository. Is 
there a particular reason for this?



Cheers
Thomas
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Re: [fossil-users] Shameless self-promotion

[Thomas]

On 2017-09-14 23:43, Richard Hipp wrote:

On 9/14/17, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com> wrote:


The biggest disadvantage - as my coworkers pointed out - is that the
downloadable executables do not come with https enabled.


At one time that was true.  But I think all of the precompiled
binaries on the site now have https enabled by default, don't that?
Have you tried the recent once?  I pretty sure the Windows binaries in
particular support https out of the box.


Uhm, no, I hadn't. I just downloaded the latest Windows executable and 
it came with https enabled.


Thanks! That's a great leap forward! In my opinion, there's now in my 
opinion nothing left that'd make Git superiour to Fossil unless you got 
a huge amount of contributors (according to the Fossil documentation), 
or a project spanning several gigabytes. I'll certainly pass this on.


But I won't let you off like that nonetheless. :)
Why hasn't this been announced properly, or have I overslept it? ;-)


Cheers
Thoas


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Re: [fossil-users] Shameless self-promotion

[Thomas]

On 2017-09-14 16:55, Richard Hipp wrote:

If you'd like to help promote Fossil to unwashed masses who are still
using Git, perhaps like or retweet
https://twitter.com/robmurrer/status/908080904781869056 :-)


I never used Git but whenever I had an issue with Fossil I tried to find 
what the Git documentation says about it, as it was me who introduced 
Fossil to the team and made them use it, in spite of them suggesting and 
preferring Git. Both seem very similar, even down to - what I find - not 
the correct behaviour in many circumstances.


Fossil is a great piece of softare. Its primary strength is certainly 
that it is a single executable, easy to set up and easy to run as a CGI.


The biggest disadvantage - as my coworkers pointed out - is that the 
downloadable executables do not come with https enabled. This means you 
got to download and build OpenSSL yourself, then build Fossil. That's 
cumbersome and doesn't even work all the time (= trial and error). If it 
doesn't work, you got to wait for the next update unless you're willing 
to fix the build scripts yourself.


In particular Windows users are used to download software, then run it. 
That's it. They drop it if it doesn't work. Or they just complain to the 
one who introduced it. End of story. That's what I have to listen to all 
the time since I introduced Fossil in favour of Git.



-- Thomas
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Re: [fossil-users] Empty file constantly being deleted

[Thomas]

On 2017-09-08 15:51, David Mason wrote:
On 8 September 2017 at 10:47, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com 
<mailto:tho...@dateiliste.com>> wrote:


If I do this I can never use addremove again. The checkin script
runs addremove automatically each time.


If it's in the ignore-glob file, addremove won't add it.  So put in the 
ignore-glob, remove it once, clean up the shun, commit, and then what 
you are doing in your script will work just fine.


Ah. Cheers. I forgot all about that remove-once trick.

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Re: [fossil-users] Empty file constantly being deleted

[Thomas]

On 2017-09-08 15:01, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote:

On Fri, Sep 08, 2017 at 02:49:16PM +0100, Thomas wrote:

On 2017-09-08 09:48, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote:

On Thu, Sep 07, 2017 at 11:39:39PM +0100, Thomas wrote:

What I mean is, someone who's got that file within the checkout folder
automatically causes it to be checked in again, independent of what the
ignore-glob says.


You have to mark it as deleted. Then it will only be checked in (again),
if someone actually adds it. Which normally honors the ignore-glob.


How do I mark a file as deleted?


fossil delete ...


If I do this I can never use addremove again. The checkin script runs 
addremove automatically each time.


This is the script:
fossil addremove --dotfiles
fossil update --force-missing
fossil configuration pull shun
fossil commit --allow-empty --allow-conflict --hash


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Re: [fossil-users] Empty file constantly being deleted

[Thomas]

On 2017-09-08 09:48, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote:

On Thu, Sep 07, 2017 at 11:39:39PM +0100, Thomas wrote:

What I mean is, someone who's got that file within the checkout folder
automatically causes it to be checked in again, independent of what the
ignore-glob says.


You have to mark it as deleted. Then it will only be checked in (again),
if someone actually adds it. Which normally honors the ignore-glob.


How do I mark a file as deleted?

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Re: [fossil-users] Empty file constantly being deleted

[Thomas]

On 2017-09-07 23:32, Ron W wrote:

The other type of empty files (actually, just one single file) is used
for a test case to check how one part of the project gracefully handles
an empty file. So, this file is actually not created by every
contributor individually according to their preferences but part of the
checkout.


I would recommend that the test script create that file when that test 
case is run.


If your testing is not automated, then your build process could create it.


Thanks, yes, that's what we're doing now. The test script creates this 
empty file, meaning the issue is actually not an issue anymore for us.


It's only that I would like to understand what's going on.

Why is this file removed but not all the other empty files?
Neither of them is in the ignore-glob.
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Re: [fossil-users] Empty file constantly being deleted

[Thomas]

On 2017-09-07 23:21, Richard Hipp wrote:

On 9/7/17, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com> wrote:



Shunning is not a way to proactively prevent files from being added to
a project.  I think you probably want to use the ignore-glob.  See
https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/help?cmd=ignore-glob for the
documentation on the ignore-glob setting.  I confess that the
documentation is a bit thin at the moment and needs enhancement, but
it is what we have for now.

The idea is that you create a file in your project named
".fossil-settings/ignore-glob" and you put text in that file which is
a sequence of GLOB patterns that define files, then none of those
files will be added to the repository via the "addremove" command.
Fossil itself uses such a file, which you can see here:
https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/artifact/b7b945d48cfceef7


You or someone else suggested this before, and it does work for new 
files. It does not work for files that have made their way into the 
repository already before the ignore-glob contained these files.


Once a file made it into the repro there doesn't seem to be a way of 
removing it again. I'm not talking about removing all references to the 
file. It just shouldn't be distributed during the next checkout of 
someone else.


What I mean is, someone who's got that file within the checkout folder 
automatically causes it to be checked in again, independent of what the 
ignore-glob says.


So far, I can only see one way of preventing these files from being 
checked in again, and that is by shunning them. Have I overlooked or 
misunderstood something?


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Re: [fossil-users] Empty file constantly being deleted

[Thomas]

On 2017-09-07 22:49, Richard Hipp wrote:

On 9/7/17, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com> wrote:


The SHA3 hash for an empty file is in the shun list. What is going to
happen if I remove this entry? Would all those "suppress warning" files
be distributed among the team, i.e. would I with my next checkin turn
off all warning messages for everyone else?


I do not understand from your description what it is you are trying to
accomplish.

Nevertheless, I know that an empty file should not be on the shun
list.  I have a note to enhance Fossil to make adding an empty file to
the shun list an error.

At the very least, you should remove the empty file hashes from your
shun list.  That may or may not fix your problem.  I cannot say
whether or not doing so will fix your problem because I still do not
understand your problem.

I am also concerned that you might be trying to use shunning for a
purpose different from what it was intended.  But since I don't
understand what you are trying to do, I am unclear on that point too.


I was afraid of that ;-)

The project contains a file x.ext. It's content is empty and its file 
length is 0.


There's 3 folders in the project.
a
b
c

I can create a file a/x.ext (empty and file length of 0), which should 
not go into the repository. Because if it goes into the repository
everyone else would get that file. The pure existence of that file 
changes the behaviour of some script. This behaviour is the personal 
preference of the contributor.


In other words, everyone should be able to create a a/x.ext or a b/x.ext 
or a c/x.ext without having these files uploaded/checked in/shared 
between repositories.


The reason for this is because someone might prefer a a/x.ext and a 
c/x.ext but no b/x.ext file.


Shunning means no one can upload these files because their SHA3 hash is 
shunned. Am I correct here or did I misunderstand something?


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Re: [fossil-users] Empty file constantly being deleted

[Thomas]

On 2017-09-07 00:48, Richard Hipp wrote:

On 9/6/17, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com> wrote:


If I unshun
a7ffc6f8bf1ed76651c14756a061d662f580ff4de43b49fa82d80a4b80f8434a now the
next one to check in (run the check-in script) would cause all the other
empty files to be distributed to everyone else, wouldn't they?

Why are those not removed, by the way? They got the same SHA3 key.


A file name and a file's content are distinct and separate objects.
The SHUN mechanism removes file content.  The file names are entries
in the manifest file for a check-in and are unaffected by shunning.

Shunning a zero-length file does not hide any information from
anybody.  Everybody can still clearly see the name of the file in the
manifest, and its hash, and from the hash they can deduce that the
file is empty, even if that file has been shunned.

Shunning is designed to remove content from the repository, not the
filename of the content.  Shunning is intended, for example, to remove
a file of passwords that you check-in accidently.  After shunning,
everybody can still see that you accidentally checked in the password
file, they just cannot see the content of the password file.

You seem to be wanting that the shun remove the filename too, so that
nobody can see that you even checked in the file mistakenly.  But that
is not possible without shunning the entire check-in.


Thanks for this detailed reply. However, I'm still confused.

No, that's not what I want. There's no reason for the files to be hidden 
in any way.


To be honest, the current behaviour is not an issue for us anymore 
either. We solved it within the script that looks for the empty file 
that keeps being removed.


It's just that I would like to understand what's happening and why.

We got two types of empty files in our project.

One type is used as a flag, more or less privately for each contributor.
Their existence is no secret, just a personal preference. A script 
checks for its existence. If these empty files don't exist, certain 
scripts spit out several warning messages (= the default). Each 
contributor can suppress these warning messages by creating an empty 
file with a particular name in the folders in question. After that, they 
won't see these warnings anymore. These files are (or can be) scattered 
all over the project's folder tree.


The other type of empty files (actually, just one single file) is used 
for a test case to check how one part of the project gracefully handles 
an empty file. So, this file is actually not created by every 
contributor individually according to their preferences but part of the 
checkout.


Every time one of the contributors checks in (= runs our checkin script)
fossil addremove --dotfiles
fossil update --force-missing
fossil configuration pull shun
fossil commit --allow-empty --allow-conflict --hash
the file that is part of the test suite is removed here.

The other empty files are not removed. Why? What could cause this 
behaviour? I got several of those empty files that suppress the warning 
messages as explained above.


The SHA3 hash for an empty file is in the shun list. What is going to 
happen if I remove this entry? Would all those "suppress warning" files 
be distributed among the team, i.e. would I with my next checkin turn 
off all warning messages for everyone else?

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Re: [fossil-users] Empty file constantly being deleted

[Thomas]

On 2017-09-06 23:45, Richard Hipp wrote:

On 9/6/17, Stephan Beal <sgb...@googlemail.com> wrote:


i'm speculating, based on the fact that you're pulling "shun" info, that
you once shunned one of those files. ALL empty files have the same hash
code, so if you shunned one of them, you've shunned them all.



I was stumped.  Then I read Stephan's theory and smiled.  I think he
may be on to something.


I had the exact same idea in the beginning but the fact that the other 
files with a length of 0 are not touched made me discard it. However, 
turned out it's the case after you provided the SHA3 of an empty file 
and I checked it just now.




A zero-length file has a SHA3 hash of
a7ffc6f8bf1ed76651c14756a061d662f580ff4de43b49fa82d80a4b80f8434a and a
SHA1 hash of da39a3ee5e6b4b0d3255bfef95601890afd80709.  Do either of
those two hashes appear in your shun list?


Yes. Someone obviously shunned 
a7ffc6f8bf1ed76651c14756a061d662f580ff4de43b49fa82d80a4b80f8434a, maybe 
even me a long time ago to protect the other - private - empty files.


That makes it even more complicated for me now.

If I unshun 
a7ffc6f8bf1ed76651c14756a061d662f580ff4de43b49fa82d80a4b80f8434a now the 
next one to check in (run the check-in script) would cause all the other 
empty files to be distributed to everyone else, wouldn't they?


Why are those not removed, by the way? They got the same SHA3 key.



I wonder if we should add some magic to Fossil that prevents the
shunning of empty files?  Or, perhaps add a warning of some kind when
files less than (say) 8 bytes in length are shunned?


No idea, as in my case I don't want the files to be distributed but keep 
them private for everyone. This also means for me that they shouldn't be 
deleted by Fossil.



Thanks, and regards
Thomas
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[fossil-users] Empty file constantly being deleted

[Thomas]

Hello,

I got an issue with an empty file that's constantly being deleted 
whenever I run the checkin script after another contributor checked in 
using the same script.


The script does:
fossil addremove --dotfiles
fossil update --force-missing
fossil configuration pull shun
fossil commit --allow-empty --allow-conflict --hash

There's several files with a filesize of 0. They shouldn't go in the 
repository, and actually they don't. They're used as flags each 
contributor can create to get rid of some messages within some to Fossil 
unrelated scripts.


However, every time after a particular contributor checked in by running 
the above script, one of these files is removed by Fossil here after I 
ran the check-in script.


He doesn't have this file in his checkout, but he also doesn't have lots 
of other files with a size of 0 in his checkout, but those are not 
removed here.


How would I go on about finding the reason for this to me strange behaviour?


Cheers
Thomas
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[fossil-users] Empty file constantly being deleted

[Thomas]

Hello,

I got an issue with an empty file that's constantly being deleted 
whenever I run the checkin script after another contributor checked in 
using the same script.


The script does:
fossil addremove --dotfiles
fossil update --force-missing
fossil configuration pull shun
fossil commit --allow-empty --allow-conflict --hash

There's several files with a filesize of 0. They shouldn't go in the 
repository, and actually they don't. They're used as flags each 
contributor can create to get rid of some messages within some to Fossil 
unrelated scripts.


However, every time after a particular contributor checked in by running 
the above script, one of these files is removed by Fossil here after I 
ran the check-in script.


He doesn't have this file in his checkout, but he also doesn't have lots 
of other files with a size of 0 in his checkout, but those are not 
removed here.


How would I go on about finding the reason for this to me strange behaviour?


Cheers
Thomas
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[fossil-users] Documentation on how to clone and how to download a tarball

[Thomas Levine]

People often don't know how to clone or download a tarball from my
fossil server, so I wind up documenting it in the homepage of each
particular project. Is there a more convenient way of providing this
documentation, such as generic documentation page on this topic and a
skin that links to this documentation?
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[fossil-users] Rectangle around leaf in web interface

[Thomas]

Hello,

I've been working with Fossil now for a few months and I've got to admit 
that it makes things a lot easier than without. I'm getting better and 
better. ;-)


I've noticed very early that sometimes there's a rectangle around the 
leaf in the web interface and sometimes there isn't. Since I had only 
used IE with "fossil ui" and Firefox to access the web repository I 
thought it's got something to do with Internet Explorer and Firefox why 
there's sometimes a rectangle around the leaf and sometimes not.


Just now I noticed (and tried it with different browsers) that the 
rectangle is only shown with "fossil ui" but not when the remote repro 
is accessed.


Since I believe the rectangle looks quite nice I tried to find out what 
the difference between the local and the remote configuration is but to 
no avail. They're both identical, at least as far as I can tell.


The skin is "Default", of course, since I wouldn't have changed anything 
willfully, though ;-)


Is there something I overlooked?
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Re: [fossil-users] crlf-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-05-15 23:09, Warren Young wrote:

On May 15, 2017, at 3:27 PM, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com> wrote:


Does it really matter in the 21st century if a line is terminated by CR, LF, or 
CR/LF anymore?


Notepad.exe in Windows 10 Creator’s Edition still only works properly with 
CR+LF.  Since that’s the default handler for *.txt on Windows, yes, line ending 
type still matters for any cross-platform project.


So, after editing a file that belongs to your project with Notepad on 
Windows, would you expect an SCM complaining about it when you commit?


I wouldn't.


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[fossil-users] crlf-glob

[Thomas]

Hello,

Since this was causing us quite a lot of hassle I was wondering what's 
the reason to have a crlf-glob in the first place?


Does it really matter in the 21st century if a line is terminated by CR, 
LF, or CR/LF anymore?



Cheers
Thomas
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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-12 23:31, Thomas wrote:

On 2017-04-12 22:55, Ross Berteig wrote:


A very clean and lightweight build can be had from ./configure
--with-miniz --with-openssl=none


Oups, sorry. I overlooked that.

This is what I downloaded from
https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/uv/download.html before I started
using Fossil:
4,459,022 fossil.exe

This is what I built myself with MSVC 2015 a few hours ago:
2,799,616 fossil.exe

No idea what's the default but what I did before I built was to change
two lines in Makefile.msc beforehand:
FOSSIL_BUILD_SSL = 1
FOSSIL_ENABLE_SSL = 1

Maybe my build is missing something I've yet to figure out.


I tend to omit/forget probably valuable information. ;-(
I took this information from
https://www.fossil-scm.org/xfer/doc/trunk/www/build.wiki .

Sorry again:-(


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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-12 23:24, Scott Robison wrote:

When I am using the download from fossil-scm.org, I am able to use
single quotes to 'escape' the asterisk. Double quotes do not work.


On Windows?
How'd you do that?


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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-12 23:24, Scott Robison wrote:

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com> wrote:

On 2017-04-12 18:01, Scott Robison wrote:


On Apr 12, 2017 10:31 AM, "Thomas" <tho...@dateiliste.com
<mailto:tho...@dateiliste.com>> wrote:

On 2017-04-09 02:19, Richie Adler wrote:

Thomas decía, en el mensaje "[fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob
*" del
8/4/2017 17:46:14:

Does anyone know how to unveil the secret of getting the
mentioned
asterisk into the crlf-glob setting without consulting the
web interface?


For me, it works if I enter the asterisk as '*'.

I'm on Windows 7 Ultimate Build 7601 SP 1.

This is fossil version 2.2 [9612d43f93] 2017-03-18 14:10:13 UTC
Compiled on Mar 18 2017 13:48:53 using mingw32 (64-bit)


It's obviously not the version. It still doesn't work here.
This is fossil version 2.2 [a9d1d46f65] 2017-04-12 11:39:23 UTC
Compiled just now ...


Probably the difference between the Microsoft and MINGW run time
libraries.



Most likely, yes. That's pretty much the only option left now. ;)
Unless, of course, the provided exe at
https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/uv/download.html has not been built with
MSVC. If it's been built with MinGW we're back at square 1.

In my case, I got two working solutions now:
- Use "*," instead of just "*".
- Write the asterisk to .fossil-settings\crlf-glob directly (which I like
more).


I must have misread ... I thought you said you'd built with Visual C++
2015. Probably someone else.

When I am using the download from fossil-scm.org, I am able to use
single quotes to 'escape' the asterisk. Double quotes do not work.


I built with MSVC 2015, yes.


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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-12 22:55, Ross Berteig wrote:


A very clean and lightweight build can be had from ./configure
--with-miniz --with-openssl=none


Oups, sorry. I overlooked that.

This is what I downloaded from 
https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/uv/download.html before I started 
using Fossil:

4,459,022 fossil.exe

This is what I built myself with MSVC 2015 a few hours ago:
2,799,616 fossil.exe

No idea what's the default but what I did before I built was to change 
two lines in Makefile.msc beforehand:

FOSSIL_BUILD_SSL = 1
FOSSIL_ENABLE_SSL = 1

Maybe my build is missing something I've yet to figure out.

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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-12 23:24, Scott Robison wrote:

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com> wrote:

On 2017-04-12 18:01, Scott Robison wrote:


On Apr 12, 2017 10:31 AM, "Thomas" <tho...@dateiliste.com
<mailto:tho...@dateiliste.com>> wrote:

On 2017-04-09 02:19, Richie Adler wrote:

Thomas decía, en el mensaje "[fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob
*" del
8/4/2017 17:46:14:

Does anyone know how to unveil the secret of getting the
mentioned
asterisk into the crlf-glob setting without consulting the
web interface?


For me, it works if I enter the asterisk as '*'.

I'm on Windows 7 Ultimate Build 7601 SP 1.

This is fossil version 2.2 [9612d43f93] 2017-03-18 14:10:13 UTC
Compiled on Mar 18 2017 13:48:53 using mingw32 (64-bit)


It's obviously not the version. It still doesn't work here.
This is fossil version 2.2 [a9d1d46f65] 2017-04-12 11:39:23 UTC
Compiled just now ...


Probably the difference between the Microsoft and MINGW run time
libraries.



Most likely, yes. That's pretty much the only option left now. ;)
Unless, of course, the provided exe at
https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/uv/download.html has not been built with
MSVC. If it's been built with MinGW we're back at square 1.

In my case, I got two working solutions now:
- Use "*," instead of just "*".
- Write the asterisk to .fossil-settings\crlf-glob directly (which I like
more).


I must have misread ... I thought you said you'd built with Visual C++
2015. Probably someone else.

When I am using the download from fossil-scm.org, I am able to use
single quotes to 'escape' the asterisk. Double quotes do not work.


I built with MSVC 2015, yes.


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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-12 22:55, Ross Berteig wrote:


A very clean and lightweight build can be had from ./configure
--with-miniz --with-openssl=none


Oups, sorry. I overlooked that.

This is what I downloaded from 
https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/uv/download.html before I started 
using Fossil:

4,459,022 fossil.exe

This is what I built myself with MSVC 2015 a few hours ago:
2,799,616 fossil.exe

No idea what's the default but what I did before I built was to change 
two lines in Makefile.msc beforehand:

FOSSIL_BUILD_SSL = 1
FOSSIL_ENABLE_SSL = 1

Maybe my build is missing something I've yet to figure out.

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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-12 22:55, Ross Berteig wrote:


On 4/12/2017 1:10 PM, Thomas wrote:

I might try MinGW as soon as I figured out how to buld Fossil with
MinGW/Cygwin. ;-)


I've been looking at the wildcard globbing from command line issue, and
the bottom line is that out of the box MinGW and MSVC both defer to the
Microsoft C Runtime Library to get argv[] initialized. There is a
mechanism available at link time to tell it not to glob before main() is
entered, but its complicated. No one is happy. Lots of shouting on
mailing lists. More yak shaving and bike shedding. Also, sadly, no
changes. It doesn't help that MS has been changing what they do in edge
cases from release to release, making it even harder to figure out what
to do to build code that does what you assume you wanted.


I believe there's got to be a balance between effort and outcome.

No one needs a washing machine if there's any other way of getting clean 
clothes, because that's what's required at the end of the day. The 
washing machine is just a tool. My preference would be to buy a magic 
wand that washes my socks. ;-)


I think the "*," solution is totally ok, as long as it's promoted in the 
documentation.




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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-12 18:01, Scott Robison wrote:

On Apr 12, 2017 10:31 AM, "Thomas" <tho...@dateiliste.com
<mailto:tho...@dateiliste.com>> wrote:

On 2017-04-09 02:19, Richie Adler wrote:

Thomas decía, en el mensaje "[fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob
*" del
8/4/2017 17:46:14:

Does anyone know how to unveil the secret of getting the
mentioned
asterisk into the crlf-glob setting without consulting the
web interface?


For me, it works if I enter the asterisk as '*'.

I'm on Windows 7 Ultimate Build 7601 SP 1.

This is fossil version 2.2 [9612d43f93] 2017-03-18 14:10:13 UTC
Compiled on Mar 18 2017 13:48:53 using mingw32 (64-bit)


It's obviously not the version. It still doesn't work here.
This is fossil version 2.2 [a9d1d46f65] 2017-04-12 11:39:23 UTC
Compiled just now ...


Probably the difference between the Microsoft and MINGW run time libraries.


Most likely, yes. That's pretty much the only option left now. ;)
Unless, of course, the provided exe at 
https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/uv/download.html has not been built 
with MSVC. If it's been built with MinGW we're back at square 1.


In my case, I got two working solutions now:
- Use "*," instead of just "*".
- Write the asterisk to .fossil-settings\crlf-glob directly (which I 
like more).


I might try MinGW as soon as I figured out how to buld Fossil with 
MinGW/Cygwin. ;-)


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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-12 01:46, Ross Berteig wrote:

In any case, you don't generally want to do addremove and commit in a
single operation because that doesn't give you a chance to review (and
test) what it decided to add and remove before it is committed to
immutable history.


That's certainly true for a public open source project but I wouldn't do 
it for an internal one.



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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-11 23:41, Scott Robison wrote:

Okay, so you *do* want (or at least expected) the use of --ignore (in
the context of addremove) to "rm" files already being managed. Which
is not an unreasonable desire, certainly could make some work flows
easier. The addremove command was structured around the idea of "this
unmanaged file that exists in the working directory should be added at
the next commit, and this managed file that no longer exists in the
woking directory should be removed at the next commit".

In any case, the "unmanaged files" text is a good addition to both, I
think, since add can be used to add the contents of a directory.


Sounds great. Thanks.

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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-09 02:19, Richie Adler wrote:

Thomas decía, en el mensaje "[fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *" del
8/4/2017 17:46:14:


Does anyone know how to unveil the secret of getting the mentioned
asterisk into the crlf-glob setting without consulting the web interface?


For me, it works if I enter the asterisk as '*'.

I'm on Windows 7 Ultimate Build 7601 SP 1.

This is fossil version 2.2 [9612d43f93] 2017-03-18 14:10:13 UTC
Compiled on Mar 18 2017 13:48:53 using mingw32 (64-bit)


It's obviously not the version. It still doesn't work here.
This is fossil version 2.2 [a9d1d46f65] 2017-04-12 11:39:23 UTC
Compiled just now with MSVC 2015.

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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-11 23:09, Ross Berteig wrote:

On 4/10/2017 11:48 AM, Thomas wrote:


Actually, I got a batch file that reads the file filter settings from
another file and creates the binary-glob and the ignore-glob files on
the fly before an addremove and a commit (crlf-glob is not created and
only contains an asterisk now).


Why do this on every commit?


That's a legit question. The reason is that at first I only learned 
about the command line swiches, that take the list comma separated.
My files however contained a mask on each line, basically the same way 
the .fossil-settings files are outlined. I only learned about the 
.fossil-settings folder later here in the mailing list, hence I just 
quickly changed the batch file to create the required files.


The reason why I had my files in this format is because I assembled my 
lists from sources on the web with common file name extensions, file and 
folder names.




The whole point of the versioned settings is that they can be set once
and stored, and are carried with the repository into every working
folder on fossil open.


The only differences to my file is that it's got a different filename 
extension for which Notepad++ allows me to insert syntax-highlighted 
coments, and that it sorts the list. That's all.




You figure out what files never need saving, and put globs in
ignore-glob that match them. Note that the globs are matched on the
whole pathname in the working folder, so you can exclude entire folders
too if that is handy. Which is nice for things like the Release and
Debug folders that VS tends to create in its projects. You will want to
work out carefully what files your IDE needs to be treated like source
code, which of those are binary (a stupid mistake made by too many IDEs
is to use binary files for project configuration which makes using
version control harder than necessary), and which files are build products.

Something like this is my usual starting point for ignore-glob for a lot
of projects. I usually create ignore-glob right after creating the
repository and before checking things in. I always include globs for
whatever backup files get created by my text editors, all the build
products I can identify, and if practical, any folders created by building.

~*,*.bak
*.o,*.d
*.obj,*.exe,*.dll
*.bin,*.hex
*Build*/*
*build*/*
ship/*
*.zip,*.tar*

The fossil extras command is useful for finding things that belong in
ignore-glob. It lists the files that fossil addremove would add or
fossil clean would delete.

IDEs come with an extra burden. They always seem to be written by people
that believe there is no world outside of the IDE, and especially no
version control. Worse, they also seem to be hostile to all the other
IDE developers, and highly resistant to any sort of standardized naming
of things. On the positive side, there is this project at Github where
people are tracking what to tell Git to ignore. The syntax isn't
identical for fossil, but the data is still valuable.

  https://github.com/github/gitignore


This is actually one of the sources I based my exclusion list on.
I added other files too. I replaced all # characters at the beginning of 
each line with semicolons, extracted the files like [Tt]umbs.db to 
Thumbs.db and thumbs.db, saved it, and let my batch file create a 
comma-separated list for the --ignore command line switch.



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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-11 22:51, Scott Robison wrote:

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Scott Robison <sc...@casaderobison.com> wrote:

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 3:21 PM, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com> wrote:

On 2017-04-11 22:11, Thomas wrote:

add
   --ignoreIgnore unmanaged files matching
patterns from the comma separated list of
glob patterns.
   --exclude   Exclude files matching patterns from
the comma separated list of glob patterns.

The same for addremove, I guess.


I've updated the documentation for --ignore for add and addremove.
Adding exclude is more than I have time for at this moment. Baby
steps.


I still think there is a fundamental misunderstanding about addremove.


I think not a misunderstanding but I made a minor error. There's nothing 
wrong with the add command as it currently is. This --exclude would only 
apply to addremove because the add command has it already (= rm or delete).




You create a new repo. You run fossil addremove and get everything in
there, including things you don't want because you've never setup
ignore globs. You commit.

Now you know you need ignore, so you type fossil addremove --ignore
'*.whatever'. Files matching *.whatever that are already in the repo
will not be removed from the repo. Files matching *.whatever that are
not in the repo will not be added to the repo. fossil addremove does
not commit files, it just prepares to add or remove them in the next
commit.


Yes. That's how I understood it.
Since it doesn't make much sense to just run addremove alone, I always 
run addremove and then commit immediately. I got a batch file that does 
this.




Has your point been that running "addremove --ignore '*.whatever'"
treat files matching those patterns as missing so they will be removed
at the next commit? I don't think so because you said you didn't
expect it to remove the files. But you are surprised that --ignore
isn't ignoring files in addremove, and according to each and every
test I've run, it does ignore those unmanaged files so they are not
added.


It (--ignore) only ignores unmanaged files. But basically, what I 
expected it to do is remove these files from the next commit, as if I 
had removed them with rm or delete manually. Of course they're still in 
the repository in the previous revision.


So, the issue only arises with addremove. Since after the first 
addremove and commit all files are in the repository in the first 
revision, --ignore has no function for consecutive invocations of 
addremove and commit, as all files are now managed. The files happily 
appear in the commit comment but you won't get any clue about why.




Maybe you could try a new repository from scratch and try it the way I
described in my earlier posts. Or maybe you could give me the exact
command line you are running, and the fossil version output, and even
the OS / shell you are using so that I can see if there is something
else surprising about this.


It's exactly the way you described it.

- New repository.
- open
- Copy project files in the checked out folder structure.
- addremove + commit
- ui to see that lots of files are in the repository that shouldn't be there
- Use --ignore with the next addremove + commit cycle and see that it 
doesn't work as you'd expect



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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-11 22:21, Thomas wrote:

On 2017-04-11 22:11, Thomas wrote:

On 2017-04-11 22:01, Scott Robison wrote:

I was thinking about that earlier (well, a warning, not an error,
which presumes you can't continue). Then the questions I put above
came into my mind so I didn't bring it up. What would you suggest
calling the command?


Change the text for --ignore and .fossil-settings/ignore-glob to:
unmanaged matching files to ignore

Add another switch --exclude and .fossil-settings/exclude-glob and
explain that this applies to all, managed and unmanaged files
unconditionally.

But right after that you'd have to start drinking beer as my offer still
stands ;-)



add
   --ignoreIgnore unmanaged files matching
patterns from the comma separated list of
glob patterns.
   --exclude Exclude files matching patterns from
the comma separated list of glob patterns.

The same for addremove, I guess.


Oups, sorry. Not for add. Only for addremove.
-- exclude for add already exists in the form of rm or delete, right?



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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-11 22:11, Thomas wrote:

On 2017-04-11 22:01, Scott Robison wrote:

I was thinking about that earlier (well, a warning, not an error,
which presumes you can't continue). Then the questions I put above
came into my mind so I didn't bring it up. What would you suggest
calling the command?


Change the text for --ignore and .fossil-settings/ignore-glob to:
unmanaged matching files to ignore

Add another switch --exclude and .fossil-settings/exclude-glob and
explain that this applies to all, managed and unmanaged files
unconditionally.

But right after that you'd have to start drinking beer as my offer still
stands ;-)



add
   --ignoreIgnore unmanaged files matching   
patterns from the comma separated list of   
glob patterns.
   --exclude Exclude files matching patterns from
the comma separated list of glob patterns.

The same for addremove, I guess.

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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-11 19:34, Scott Robison wrote:

No, I try to explain why what you see isn't a design flaw, and
apparently fail. But I'll keep trying!


Since I've never heard of any software that would not ignore files it is 
told to ignore you're going to have a hard time to convince me ;-)




Source code management != backup


Never said it was. Keeping an obj file in a repo because there is no
corresponding source from which to build it is valuable so that other
people can get access to all the build artifacts required.


Keeping hundreds of megabytes of SQLite Visual Studio Intellisense 
databases is not something required to build the software. It is also 
not something desirable to delete on the originating machine just to 
satisfy the odd behaviour of the SCM. To be fair, Fossil does a very 
good job in only storing the compressed differences. Although the files 
are quite big, the repository only grew by about 10 or 12 MiB with each 
commit.


I believe that Fossil users are software developers and know what 
happens to object files they exclude. I believe they're smart enough to 
either rename object files they need in the repository if they set up 
exclusion filters, or that they would set up appropriate filters. They'd 
find out as soon as they test it, and they can find out with "fossil 
ui". In my opinion this is a very weak excuse. ;)




I would like to emphasise that --ignore (or .fossil-settings\ignore-glob) is
an _explicit_ command, clearly stating the user's desire for exlusion of
these files, following the documentation.
Silently ignoring this wish can't be the correct process.


No, it is an explicit command clearly stating the user's desire for
exclusion of these files *that are not already under source control*.


That's not what the documentation says ;-)



The fact that the user does not remember or did not realize they
issues conflicting commands does not mean that fossil should suddenly
stop tracking the file, or so it seems to me.

If a file was previously added to a repository (indicating a desire to
keep track of modifications to the file), that is more important than
ignoring the file.


Isn't it a natural thing that the first step everyone does when trying 
out a revision management system is commit everything they got as they 
haven't set up any exclusions at that time?


I actually expected that some defaults would have been applied already 
but that's not the case, which is of course good. All files and folders 
got committed, apart from empty directories. It turned out Fossil 
doesn't know about folders (according to the documentation), hence I 
just created an empty file in each empty folder.




A switch that doesn't work is either a huge design flaw or a bug. A --ignore
switch that doesn't ignore is a huge security bug (and a trap) too.


Ignoring does work as desired. It only applies to files that match the
pattern that are not already in source control.


Yepp, that's what we figured out now. ;)
Since the software is a single executable it comes without any ignore 
settings, hence it applies to precisely how many files after the first 
commit? Correct: Precisely _zero_! ;)


So, --ignore or .fossil-settings\ignore-glob have _no_ function at all 
at first. That's not a lot for a command-line switch that's supposed to 
ignore files. ;-)




Going back to my examples from yesterday: I had an ignore-glob of *.a.
I ran addremove and it ignored the a.a file, but not the b.b file. If
I ran add a.a, it warned me that it was in the ignore pattern, but
allowed me to add it anyway.


I agree that I would have seen a warning with add. However, with 
thousands of files in a folder, that command is not very efficient 
compared to addremove.




--ignore is not a "remove existing files from the repository rule"
switch. It is an "ignore unmanaged files that match a pattern" switch.


I wasn't and I am not expecting it to remove existing files from the 
repository. I'd expect it to simply ignore these files for the current 
commit.


Again, that switch is completely useless after a first commit with all 
files. It does absolutely nothing. I find it a bit strange that I'm 
supposed to be the first one to notice this. Fossil is not just a couple 
of weeks old.




Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. It is an
intentional design to allow the ignoring of unmanaged files.


And since all files are managed after the first addremove and commit, 
and every consecutive invocation(s), there's no unmanaged files left, 
rendering the switch's function to no function at all.


I can't imagine that this is really its intended function. If it really 
is, then this should be marked in triple-bold and red with green and 
pink stripes in the docs.




File add.c on line 672 says:
  /* step 1:
  ** Populate the temp table "sfile" with the names of all unmanaged
  ** files currently in the check-out, except for files that match the
  ** --ignore or ignore-glob patterns and 

Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-11 21:04, Ross Berteig wrote:

The fossil addremove command is a convenience command that scans the
tree, obeying some of the glob settings, and applies fossil add and
fossil forget command as needed to make the list of files now in the
repository consistent with the settings and the directory tree in the
working checkout.


That's right. This means it defeats the idea of using rm beforehand, as 
addremove invokes another add for the very same file later on, adding it 
again. That's why this doesn't work. I've tried that too.



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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-11 10:02, Mark Janssen wrote:

That's not a security hole at all. Once a file was added, ignoring it
will not remove past version from the repository. History in fossil is
immutable. If you inadvertently added a file which shouldn't be there
you should shun it instead.


The way I understand shunning works is that it won't add that particular 
version of the file anymore.


https://www.fossil-scm.org/xfer/doc/trunk/www/shunning.wiki

"Every Fossil repository maintains a list of the hash names of "shunned" 
artifacts. Fossil will refuse to push or pull any shunned artifact. 
Furthermore, all shunned artifacts (but not the shunning list itself) 
are removed from the repository whenever the repository is reconstructed 
using the "rebuild" command."


A hash changes as soon as the file's content changes, or am I wrong?

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[fossil-users] Fwd: Re: Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

LOL ;-)


 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob
Date:   Tue, 11 Apr 2017 16:47:01 +
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Reply-To:   Eboni <eb...@msnemail.net>
To: tho...@dateiliste.com



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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-11 05:22, Scott Robison wrote:

Perhaps it should be documented, but I don't think it is a bug. It is
the software doing the job it was originally told to do (track versions
of a file) instead of doing the job it was subsequently told to do
(ignore untracked files with a given glob).

For example, I have licensed libraries in the past that are shipped as
obj files. They need to be tracked, even though most obj files don't.
This model allows you to add certain obj files which will be tracked
while ignoring all others.


You're a good salesman. ;-)

Do you work for Microsoft by any chance? You're trying to sell a design 
flaw or bug as a feature. ;-)


Source code management != backup

I would like to emphasise that --ignore (or 
.fossil-settings\ignore-glob) is an _explicit_ command, clearly stating 
the user's desire for exlusion of these files, following the documentation.

Silently ignoring this wish can't be the correct process.

A switch that doesn't work is either a huge design flaw or a bug. A 
--ignore switch that doesn't ignore is a huge security bug (and a trap) too.


What would I need a --ignore switch for when I got to delete the files 
first manually anyway? That's completely contrary to its purpose, isn't 
it? The reason why I'm using --ignore is because I _don't want_ to 
delete these files.


Every virus scanner, backup software, mirroring software, every other 
source code revision management, webserver, and god knows what else, 
follows its exclusion rules.


Sorry, I can't see any logic behind this, apart from that this bug or 
design issue may have slipped in accidentally and now no one's willing 
to fix it, but trying to defend and advertise it as a feature... ;)


File add.c on line 672 says:
  /* step 1:
  ** Populate the temp table "sfile" with the names of all unmanaged
  ** files currently in the check-out, except for files that match the
  ** --ignore or ignore-glob patterns and dot-files.  Then add all of
  ** the files in the sfile temp table to the set of managed files.
  */
According to this, it seems it's a design flaw.

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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-11 10:02, Mark Janssen wrote:

That's not a security hole at all. Once a file was added, ignoring it
will not remove past version from the repository. History in fossil is
immutable. If you inadvertently added a file which shouldn't be there
you should shun it instead.


It is very well a security issue if I place a password in a file at a 
later point in time and use --ignore to not include it anymore but that 
command is silently dropped.


My intuition tells me that the old version without password is in the 
repository while the new version containing a password is not.


That's got nothing to do with immutable. It's just what I told it to do. 
Ignore the file from now on.


https://www.fossil-scm.org/xfer/help/addremove

https://www.fossil-scm.org/xfer/help/add
"If files are attempted to be added explicitly on the command line which
match "ignore-glob", a confirmation is asked first. This can be prevented
using the -f|--force option."

That's not the case for addremove.

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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-11 00:01, Thomas wrote:

The --ignore argument as well as the .fossil-settings\ignore-glob file
don't work for files or file masks that have been committed at some
point after the repository has been created. Your work-around worked.
After deleting some of these files, committing, changing, and committing
again, they were ignored/not checked in afterwards.

I'd say this is either a big design flaw or a bug.
It's not mentioned anywhere in the documentation and is anything but
logical and reasonable.


That's also a big security hole.

Someone checks in a file 
password.this_is_so_confidential_you_should_never_disclose_it_to_anyone.txt.


Bang.

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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-10 22:28, Scott Robison wrote:

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com> wrote:

I reckon I owe you a beer! ;-)


Not at all. I don't drink, anyway. Well, not beer. :)


You're probably missing one of the best parts in life here ;-)



Anyway, your suggestion sounds very reasonable (ok, it doesn't sound
reasonable at all to be honest, but I think that's what happened).


I think if you add a file to a repo then add an ignore, it is safer to
keep maintaining it rather than suddenly ignoring it. The two events
are conflicting, so fail safe. Removing the file allows it to be
ignored going forward.


I just tried it. Yepp, that was it. ;-)

The --ignore argument as well as the .fossil-settings\ignore-glob file 
don't work for files or file masks that have been committed at some 
point after the repository has been created. Your work-around worked. 
After deleting some of these files, committing, changing, and committing 
again, they were ignored/not checked in afterwards.


I'd say this is either a big design flaw or a bug.
It's not mentioned anywhere in the documentation and is anything but 
logical and reasonable.


I reckon everyone starts using software with the default settings.

I'd even go a step further and say when someone starts using a source 
code version management software the first thing they do is give it a go 
and check out and in again pretty much everything they got scattered 
around their harddrive and every memory stick in reach. ;)


The least I'd expect is that these files are not just silently uploaded 
but that I'd receive a message, explaining why they are uploaded. I 
thought I got to chuck the box out the window after I'd been asked again 
so many time to enter a commit note including all the files I didn't 
want it to include.
Bear in mind, I explicitely told the software not to upload them, but it 
secretly ignores/drops my command. That is far from being user-friendly. ;-)


Of course I'm glad to know now how to circumvent this issue.
Thanks again.

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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-10 21:36, Scott Robison wrote:

Next I added a.a explicitly (it warned me and I said okay) and
committed. Then I made a change to a.a and it was identified as a
change for the next commit.

So my best guess at the moment is: During one of your earlier attempts
at adding things, you added a bunch of files and committed them to the
repo. Now that those files are in the repo, fossil will not ignore
them because they are part of the repo. If you were to remove the
files from the work directory so that fossil was no longer tracking
them, commit those changes, then try addremove again, it might work
more to your liking.

At least, that worked for me here with a simple little repo with only
a few files in it.

My version: "This is fossil version 2.1 [83e3445f67] 2017-03-10 17:07:08 UTC"


I reckon I owe you a beer! ;-)

I haven't tried it yet because soe of the files I should remove are 
quite big. I'll try to move them out of the open path later. I'm sure 
Visual Studio is going to rebuild its Intellisense SQLite databases 
again but this might take a long time for various projects.


Anyway, your suggestion sounds very reasonable (ok, it doesn't sound 
reasonable at all to be honest, but I think that's what happened).


After reading your mail I remembered that all files that have been 
ignored all along via ignore-glob or --ignore are files I deleted 
manually at one point or another.


The files that always go into the repro I've never touched but I'd added 
them to the ignore list later.


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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-10 20:34, Scott Robison wrote:

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 1:05 PM, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com> wrote:

On 2017-04-10 20:00, Scott Robison wrote:

Let's say you have a repo named bob. You have not yet committed any
.fossil-settings files. You create the .fossil-settings files then run
addremove and commit. The addremove command will not recognize any of
the files you are ignoring at this point because you've never
committed the .fossil-settings files themselves.


Thanks for your extensive explanation. You're right, I would have never 
expected it to work like this. In fact, I believe if it really behaves 
as you described it, that's something that should be mentioned in the 
documentation.


I can't imagine I'd be the only or first one who'd stumble over this. It 
means that whatever you do or want to do the first commit automatically 
stores all files unconditionally in the repository.


I'd even go as far as to say this defeats the whole idea of having 
(only) these files in the first place. Or, in other words, what good is 
an exclusion or filter list that doesn't exclude or filter right from 
the start?




If you *are* doing this, maybe you would be satisfied with a flow like this:

1. update .fossil-settings
2. add (if necessary) and commit those changes
3. now run addremove for the entire working copy
4. now commit those changes.


I am using these files at the moment, yes.

But even before the first addremove or commit I had the .VC.db or .tlog 
files exluded with the --ignore parameter on the command line for 
addremove. So, no this behavior can't be the reason why Fossil ignores 
some files but not others.


fossil addremove
and
fossil commit
must have been run hundreds of times now, and the files are still 
updated in the repository every time addremove is performed.




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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-10 20:00, Scott Robison wrote:

On Apr 10, 2017 12:48 PM, "Thomas" <tho...@dateiliste.com
<mailto:tho...@dateiliste.com>> wrote:
Example of .fossil-settings\ignore-glob:
*.obj
*.tlog
*.VC.db

The real file of course contains a much bigger list. I only picked
these three masks as an example.

Fossil happily ignores the .obj files (and many others), but no
matter how hard I try, it keeps adding all .tlog and all .VC.db
files (and it ignores many others too). I can't figure out a pattern
that would tell me why some files/filters are accepted and work as
advertised in the ignore-glob, others aren't.

Is there anything I overlooked?

Any help or idea is highly appreciated.


I think it reads those from the repo, so you won't see anything until
you've committed the files once or after changes are made.


The files it ignores (.obj, .iobj, etc) are neither in the local 
repository nor in the remote one.


The files it doesn't ignore (.VC.db, .log, .tlog, tec) are in both, the 
local and the remote repository.


I got autosnyc on. Sorry, I probably should have mentioned this.


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[fossil-users] Issue with ignore-glob

[Thomas]

Hello,

As stated in one of my earlier mails, I also got an issue with files to 
ignore.


I have now created a folder .fossil-settings and placed the glob files 
in it.


Actually, I got a batch file that reads the file filter settings from 
another file and creates the binary-glob and the ignore-glob files on 
the fly before an addremove and a commit (crlf-glob is not created and 
only contains an asterisk now).


Before, the batch file read the external files with the 
crlf/binary/exclusion masks and created command line arguments, 
separated by commata, now it just writes its output to the mentioned 
files in .fossil-settings, each file mask on a different line.


The outcome is exactly the same. Some files are added to the repository 
every single time although their - in my opinion - correct name masks 
are in correctly added to ignore-glob.


Example of .fossil-settings\ignore-glob:
*.obj
*.tlog
*.VC.db

The real file of course contains a much bigger list. I only picked these 
three masks as an example.


Fossil happily ignores the .obj files (and many others), but no matter 
how hard I try, it keeps adding all .tlog and all .VC.db files (and it 
ignores many others too). I can't figure out a pattern that would tell 
me why some files/filters are accepted and work as advertised in the 
ignore-glob, others aren't.


Is there anything I overlooked?

Any help or idea is highly appreciated.
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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-09 09:04, Thomas Schnurrenberger wrote:

You could make use of the "--args" option in Fossil:

$ echo *|fossil test-echo --args -


I have written a small wrapper for invoking Fossil without
expanding wildcards:

--- content of fng.cmd ---
@echo off
rem
rem Invoke Fossil without command line globbing.
rem 2014-08-03 Thomas Schnurrenberger
rem
setlocal
if "%~1" == "fossil" goto loop
rem
rem Invoke ourself and pass the output to fossil.
"%~f0" fossil %*|fossil --args -
goto leave
rem
rem Output each argument on a single line.
:loop
if "%~2" == "" goto leave
echo %~2
shift
goto loop
:leave
endlocal
--- end of content ---


This is a highly sophisticated solution ;-)
Thanks for sharing.


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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-09 07:42, Artur Shepilko wrote:

You may try to add a comma to the the asterisk "*,"

fossil set crnl-glob *,

This used to work properly with cmd.exe, so it won't expand the * to a
file-name.

The crnl-glob Fossil setting allows a comma-separated list of glob patterns.
 "*," is effectively such list that also includes an empty pattern.


Thanks. This is a very good idea. It works with test-echo.

C:\fos>fossil test-echo *,
g.nameOfExe = [C:fos\fossil.exe]
argv[0] = [fossil]
argv[1] = [test-echo]
argv[2] = [*,]

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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas Schnurrenberger]

On 08.04.2017 22:46, Thomas wrote:
> C:\fos>fossil settings crlf-glob *.obj
> C:\fos>
> C:\fos>fossil settings crlf-glob *
> Usage: fossil settings ?PROPERTY? ?VALUE? ?-global?
> C:\fos>fossil settings crlf-glob * -global
> Usage: fossil settings ?PROPERTY? ?VALUE? ?-global?
> C:\fos>fossil settings crlf-glob "*"
> Usage: fossil settings ?PROPERTY? ?VALUE? ?-global?
> C:\fos>fossil settings crlf-glob "*" -global
> Usage: fossil settings ?PROPERTY? ?VALUE? ?-global?
> 
> Does anyone know how to unveil the secret of getting the mentioned
> asterisk into the crlf-glob setting without consulting the web interface?
> 

You could make use of the "--args" option in Fossil:

$ echo *|fossil test-echo --args -


I have written a small wrapper for invoking Fossil without
expanding wildcards:

--- content of fng.cmd ---
@echo off
rem
rem Invoke Fossil without command line globbing.
rem 2014-08-03 Thomas Schnurrenberger
rem
setlocal
if "%~1" == "fossil" goto loop
rem
rem Invoke ourself and pass the output to fossil.
"%~f0" fossil %*|fossil --args -
goto leave
rem
rem Output each argument on a single line.
:loop
if "%~2" == "" goto leave
echo %~2
shift
goto loop
:leave
endlocal
--- end of content ---

HTH

-- 
tsbg

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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-09 02:19, Richie Adler wrote:

Thomas decía, en el mensaje "[fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *" del
8/4/2017 17:46:14:


Does anyone know how to unveil the secret of getting the mentioned
asterisk into the crlf-glob setting without consulting the web interface?


For me, it works if I enter the asterisk as '*'.

I'm on Windows 7 Ultimate Build 7601 SP 1.

This is fossil version 2.2 [9612d43f93] 2017-03-18 14:10:13 UTC
Compiled on Mar 18 2017 13:48:53 using mingw32 (64-bit)


That's good news. Cheers!

I got this:
This is fossil version 2.1 [83e3445f67] 2017-03-10 17:07:08 UTC

That's the latest one from 
https://www.fossil-scm.org/fossil/uv/download.html .


From where might I be able to download a new one?

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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-08 23:00, Ross Berteig wrote:

Welcome to the strange and wonderful world of CMD.EXE's quoting rules.
Which differ between the interactive prompt and in a .BAT file (and in
some subtle ways .CMD files are yet different) too.


...and even between Windows versions. What worked on one version all of 
a sudden stops working after an upgrade. This is quite annoying but then 
most changes MS make/made to the command line interpreter in my opinion 
alwas change/changed to the better.




The command fossil test-echo * is passed the * by CMD, but as part of
the C runtime startup, it is expanding wildcards on the command line so
that fossil sees what it would see on a *nix box where the shell does
the wildcard expansion before any program runs.


I found some posts pointing to MinGW as being the culprit. However, some 
of them seem quite old.


Two examples:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/33860141/windows-mingw-asterisk-passing-by-argv1-to-string
http://mingw.5.n7.nabble.com/Why-is-MinGW-escaping-the-command-line-arguments-td9791.html



1. Use fossil ui and the navigate to the settings page in the browser.
That will let you change the setting from the web form. This assumes you
have a browser and your firewall will allow it to talk to an arbitrary
port on localhost owned by a local process. Which should all be true.


I was thinking about this but it'd deafeat the single batch file option 
because it'll require one step more for each project.




2. Use the versionable settings. Say echo * > .fossil-settings/crlf-glob
then fossil add the settings file and check it in.


I had this in mind too. It's not off the list yet.
Since I'm having another issue with files being added to the repository 
although they're listed in the --ignore-glob parameter I'll have to 
investigate a bit more first.




3. Use MSYS bash to have a bash prompt with its different quoting rules.
With care, it is possible to use that to modify either global settings
or a specific repository.


Since the issue is in Fossil's startup code I'm not sure if this would help.



4. Use SQL to edit the setting into the repo file. Don't do this unless
you know what you are doing. The hint I'll provide is that the
repository is actually a SQLite database file. There is documentation.
But directly poking it is dangerous, so only try on a backup.


I've seen this too but I dismissed that idea because it'd either stop 
working if a single column is renamed in one of Fossil's future 
versions, or I'd have to carefully check every new version available and 
change the batch file if something's changed.


Thank you for your detailed reply.


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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-08 22:33, Ross Berteig wrote:

Try "^*":

C:...>fossil test-echo "^*"
g.nameOfExe = [C:\Programs\Bin\fossil.exe]
argv[0] = [fossil]
argv[1] = [test-echo]
argv[2] = [^*]


I've tried this too but as you can see in your example that didn't 
escape the asterisk but instead placed the caret and the asterisk in the 
parameter


argv[2] = [^*]



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Re: [fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas]

On 2017-04-08 21:59, Richard Hipp wrote:

On 4/8/17, Thomas <tho...@dateiliste.com> wrote:


C:\fos>fossil settings crlf-glob *.obj
C:\fos>
C:\fos>fossil settings crlf-glob *
Usage: fossil settings ?PROPERTY? ?VALUE? ?-global?
C:\fos>fossil settings crlf-glob * -global
Usage: fossil settings ?PROPERTY? ?VALUE? ?-global?
C:\fos>fossil settings crlf-glob "*"
Usage: fossil settings ?PROPERTY? ?VALUE? ?-global?
C:\fos>fossil settings crlf-glob "*" -global
Usage: fossil settings ?PROPERTY? ?VALUE? ?-global?

Does anyone know how to unveil the secret of getting the mentioned
asterisk into the crlf-glob setting without consulting the web interface?


This seems to be a windows shell thing.  On unix, you would just put
the * inside single-quotes: '*' - but that appears not to work on
windows.  I don't know the solution.

A hint:  You can run

fossil test-echo *

to see what the command-line gets expanded to by the shell.  I haven't
(yet) found a variation on this that does not expand the *.

Anybody else?


Thanks for this quick reply. I think I understand it now.
However, it's still quite weird.

C:\fos>fossil test-echo *
g.nameOfExe = [C:\fos\fossil.exe]
argv[0] = [fossil]
argv[1] = [test-echo]
argv[2] = [_FOSSIL_]
argv[3] = [fossil.exe]
argv[4] = [db.fossil]
argv[5] = [test.cmd]

Is this what it's supposed to look like?

test.cmd contains:
ECHO %1

When I run it:
C:\fos>test.cmd *

C:\fos>ECHO *
*

So, it works for test.cmd but not for Fossil. Strange.


Cheers
Thomas

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[fossil-users] Issue with crlf-glob *

[Thomas]

Hello,

I recently started using Fossil. I got a Fossil server up on a Windows 8 
machine and my development box is Windows 7.


Since Windows editors by default use CR/LF line endings I'd like to turn 
off this setting in Fossil.


The page https://www.fossil-scm.org/xfer/help/settings says this:

"crlf-globA comma or newline-separated list of GLOB patterns for
(versionable)   text files in which it is ok to have CR, CR+LF or mixed
line endings. Set to "*" to disable CR+LF checking.
The crnl-glob setting is a compatibility alias.

However, when I try this nothing happens, apart from Fossil telling me 
that something's wrong.


C:\fos>fossil settings crlf-glob *.obj
C:\fos>
C:\fos>fossil settings crlf-glob *
Usage: fossil settings ?PROPERTY? ?VALUE? ?-global?
C:\fos>fossil settings crlf-glob * -global
Usage: fossil settings ?PROPERTY? ?VALUE? ?-global?
C:\fos>fossil settings crlf-glob "*"
Usage: fossil settings ?PROPERTY? ?VALUE? ?-global?
C:\fos>fossil settings crlf-glob "*" -global
Usage: fossil settings ?PROPERTY? ?VALUE? ?-global?

Does anyone know how to unveil the secret of getting the mentioned 
asterisk into the crlf-glob setting without consulting the web interface?


Any help is highly appreciated.
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Re: [fossil-users] Crash with this AMEND command

[Thomas Schnurrenberger]

On 18.03.2017 00:59, Tony Papadimitriou wrote:
> The following command crashes fossil (older and up to current version).
> *fossil am trunk -R your_repo_here.fossil –e*
> (I thought the –R option was supported for this command, but regardless it 
> shouldn’t crash.)
> 

If the following two lines in info.c

http://www.fossil-scm.org/index.html/file/src/info.c?ln=2953-2954

are moved before the line with the call to "db_must_be_within_tree()",
the problem should be solved.

-- 
tsbg



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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil SCGI Server Regression (from 1.36 to 1.37)

[Thomas Bilk]

So I did bisect yesterday and oh wonder, everything worked properly. I
don't know why I had an issue on Sunday but today it works on a new
test server as well as on my production server. So all-clear for the
server --scgi command.

I would like to use the occasion to thank you developers of fossil
again for this magnificent piece of software. I have to use git at
work which is a mess and I am so happy that I can use a good source
control system for all my project. So, thank you again.

Best regards.
Thomas.

> 2017-02-13 0:28 GMT+01:00 Richard Hipp <d...@sqlite.org>:
>>> I guess there was a regression introduced somewhere between [8b03934e]
>>> and [fb4b87d9].
>>
>> Would you be willing to bisect for us?
>
> Sure. I will report my findings later today.
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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil SCGI Server Regression (from 1.36 to 1.37)

[Thomas Bilk]

2017-02-13 0:28 GMT+01:00 Richard Hipp :
>> I guess there was a regression introduced somewhere between [8b03934e]
>> and [fb4b87d9].
>
> Would you be willing to bisect for us?

Sure. I will report my findings later today.
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[fossil-users] Fossil SCGI Server Regression (from 1.36 to 1.37)

[Thomas Bilk]

Hi all.

I was finally upgrading my fossil server and encountered what I assume
to be a regression. I am using the fossil server with scgi behind an
nginx web server. I am hosting a directory with fossil repositories.
These is my configuration:

The fossil server is started with this
fossil server --localhost --scgi --port 12001 /var/repos

The nginx config:
server {
  listen80;
  location / {
include scgi_params;
scgi_pass   localhost:12001;
scgi_param  SCRIPT_NAME "";
  }
}

Until version 1.36 I could access my projects on from the “/var/repos”
folder like this: “http://myserver.com/myrepo”. When I upgraded my
fossil binary to version 1.37 [fb4b87d9] this does not seem to work
any more.

I got it to work partially by adding the “--baseurl
http://myserver.com/” parameter to the fossil call and configuring
nginx to use “scgi_param  PATH_NAME $fcgi_path_name;”. But that always
led to a redirect when I called the URL from above to
“http://myserver.com//myrepo/index” with an additional slash.

I guess there was a regression introduced somewhere between [8b03934e]
and [fb4b87d9]. I am currently sticking with the older version but
would love to upgrade.

Best regards,
Thomas.
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Re: [fossil-users] Merge failed with SQL error

[Thomas Bilk]

I have had the same issue with a merge with versions 1.35, 1.36 and a
recent trunk build. I finally managed to merge my branches with
version 1.34 of Fossil. So I guess the problem might stem from the
`merge-renames` branch
(http://fossil-scm.org/index.html/timeline?t=merge-renames), that
happened in May 2016.

What's odd is that my merge did not contain any renames. However
before I had the SQLITE_CONSTRAINT error, the merge tried to delete a
file that existed in both branches.

I guess I can offer access to the afflicted repository if someone
wants to peek into it.

Thanks.
Thomas.
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