FoxCAE comments

2001-08-21 Thread Neil Martin

This is not much to go on, but basis my experience with FoxCAE 3.X, FoxCAE
is way too complicated and non-intuitive for an occasional user.  I suggest
some of the focus points to be:

1.  Provide a menu interface that is intuitive for back documentation and
provide very good instructions.  Provide an interface for the occasional
user who does not have a lot of time to try to re-learn the software every
time they want to use it. The manual also needs to be geared for quick self
learning for someone is knowledgeable about Foxboro I/A.   At least for
back documentation, it is very difficult to read the manual and learn how
to do it - even when you did it a year ago.  This is especially true when
you want to arrange how the blocks look on a page and which blocks are
grouped together on a page.

2.  In the past, when trying to figure out how to back document, the
software did not seem very forgiving and flexible in trying different
groupings of blocks on a page.  It seemed like once a grouping was picked,
that was it, there was no easy way to go back.

3.  This capability may exist in the 4.x version, but concerning back
documentation, it needs to be easy to show the value of any desired
parameter, not just those that have a connection.  Besides a default for
the block type, it should also be easy to show the value of parameters on a
block-by-block basis.


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Upgrade to CP60's

2001-02-07 Thread Neil Martin


Return Receipt
   
Your  Upgrade to CP60's
document   
:  
   
was   Neil Martin/US/PC/HUNTSMAN   
received   
by:
   
at:   02/07/2001 08:47:58 AM   
   





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RE: Version 4.3 to 6.2.1 upgrade question

2001-03-21 Thread Neil Martin


Some things to think about.  On the plus side FoxDraw has the build and
configuration functions within the same program, it is easier to edit text,
some additional file formats can sometimes be incorporated into a FoxDraw
graphic, you can create some nifty looking graphics, and there might be few
new trend enhancements.  However, there may be more negatives than
positives concerning FoxView/FoxDraw.  These negatives include a reduced
graphic size, a lot higher memory requirements, runs slower on Sun
Stations, often painful use of nested links/objects in graphic library
objects, the increased difficulty or lack of ability to get FoxView to
start up in different Environments based on the dmcfg file, the current
inability of FoxDraw (51 Series) to retain an existing link to another
directory when the graphic file is modified (i.e. if a graphic file exists
in /usr/disp and is linked to /usr/menus/d1, the link will be lost if the
file is saved out of FoxDraw).

We too are still running the old Display Manager on most of our systems,
except for one that has a mixture of both Sun and NT stations.



   
   
Corey R Clingo 
   
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Just curious:  Is FoxView that bad, or is it just a pain to migrate?  I'm
relatively new to I/A. and find the legacy Display Builder a cumbersome
tool to
build graphics in (although some of the guys in the plant who have done it
more
don't complain much).  I'm trying to evaluate whether to make a push to go
to
FoxView or not (it would be a gradual change even if we did, as I've heard
it is
best to rebuild existing screens in FoxDraw rather than try to import
them).

I'm not sure what Foxboro's stance is of supporting products beyond their
useful life (i.e., after a newer replacement has come out), but the fact
that
DM documentation is not available on the CD looks like writing on the wall
to
me.

Corey Clingo
Sr. Engineer
BASF Corporation





Stear, Bo [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 03/21/2001 07:46:29 AM

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It will be a dead heat as to whether you or we are the last to migrate to
FoxView







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Re: FW: Upgrading Foxboro Boxes

2001-04-18 Thread Neil Martin


Before you spend money on new AWs, I hope you have reviewed the
possibilities of adding more memory, reducing your PI data parameters to
reduce the changes per minute rate, and made sure your OM () lists are
optimized.  Are you running the PI server on your AW?  If so, I would
recommend changing it and only running the interface on the AW.  Use a
separate computer for the PI Server.






   
   
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This note came to me from our Decatur plant.  Any suggestions?

We are looking at a problem that is going to be experienced by other plants
in the future. We have a Foxboro I/A system here on our Cogen plant. We
have
AW51s (A series) and V6.1 software. We recently installed the OSI PI system
onto one of our AW51s. What was already a slow box has become almost
unusable. We have received a lot of complaints from the plant operators -
especially about the graphic call up speed.

We have talked about upgrading the boxes to the latest AW51s (series D or
E)
to speed things up. Unfortunately we are being quoted $100,000 by Foxboro.
What makes this worse is that we know we can buy the boxes from Sun direct
for 30% of the Foxboro price and Foxboro are charging us $50,000 for
software licenses. Foxboro are not being very helpful at this time. When we
proposed buying the boxes from Sun, Foxboro refused to support these boxes.

We are wondering if it is technically possible to buy the new boxes from
Sun
and try to load the existing software on ourselves. This would mean that we
are using the same software licenses but should get a better performance.
We
have asked Foxboro about this and been told that it is not possible because
we need to buy new licenses from Sun. We have asked Sun about this and they
have told us that we do not need new licenses but they do not know if this
would work.

Does anyone have any thoughts/experience in this matter. Is this possible
or
are we missing something somewhere?

All comments gratefully received


Bob Davis
Process Control Engineer
765-477-5317---Fax 765-474-9036
E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: Upgrading Foxboro Boxes

2001-04-19 Thread Neil Martin


FYI,

Refurbished Sun Ultra30 boxes can be had for about $3,500 and Ultra5 for
about $1,200.




   
   
Hicks, Gaylon F. 
   
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You can pick up a refurbished SUN SPARC 5 180 MHz box for about $1000, or a
110 MHz for about $600.  This is the faster 51B box, and the 180 MHz should
be pretty snappy.  We upgraded from 51A to 51B (old 85 MHz boxes) and saw a
big improvement.  I don't know exactly what else you need, but make sure
you
get a TurboGX frame buffer card (I know these are Foxboro OEM and will
work).  Also, load up on memory - 128 MB minimum.

I know not the legalities involved, but technically this will work.

Gaylon Hicks
TVA - Browns Ferry NP

 --
 From:  Davis, Robert N.[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent:  Wednesday, April 18, 2001 12:02 PM
 To:  Foxboro DCS Mail List
 Subject:  FW: Upgrading Foxboro Boxes

 This note came to me from our Decatur plant.  Any suggestions?

 We are looking at a problem that is going to be experienced by other
plants
 in the future. We have a Foxboro I/A system here on our Cogen plant.
We have
 AW51s (A series) and V6.1 software. We recently installed the OSI PI
system
 onto one of our AW51s. What was already a slow box has become almost
 unusable. We have received a lot of complaints from the plant
operators -
 especially about the graphic call up speed.

 We have talked about upgrading the boxes to the latest AW51s (series
D or E)
 to speed things up. Unfortunately we are being quoted $100,000 by
Foxboro.
 What makes this worse is that we know we can buy the boxes from Sun
direct
 for 30% of the Foxboro price and Foxboro are charging us $50,000 for
 software licenses. Foxboro are not being very helpful at this time.
When we
 proposed buying the boxes from Sun, Foxboro refused to support these
boxes.

 We are wondering if it is technically possible to buy the new boxes
from Sun
 and try to load the existing software on ourselves. This would mean
that we
 are using the same software licenses but should get a better
performance. We
 have asked Foxboro about this and been told that it is not possible
because
 we need to buy new licenses from Sun. We have asked Sun about this
and they
 have told us that we do not need new licenses but they do not know
if this
 would work.

 Does anyone have any thoughts/experience in this matter. Is this
possible or
 are we missing something somewhere?

 All comments gratefully received


 Bob Davis
 Process Control Engineer
 765-477-5317---Fax 765-474-9036
 E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]








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Re: Hard drives for AW/WP-51D

2001-04-24 Thread Neil Martin


In addition to your list, I have Seagate ST34312A (4.3GB) and ST38410A
(8.6GB) as drives than can potentially be used.  You will need to check the
install script on your version of software to see which ones your software
version will recognize.  We are at V6.2.1.  The higher the rev, the more
drives that will be recognized.  I have purchased some from a PC shop but
they are hard to find, Seagate changes the model numbers faster than
Foxboro and Sun do.  I have also purchased several refurbished (or new)
drives from Sources like North American Systems Inc. Radiant Resources, or
Computer Connection (CCNY ??).



   
   
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I want to buy some spare hard drives for our D-style AW/WP-51 boxes. Does
anybody have a ready source for these drives? I know these IDE drives can
probably be bought from any PC supply house, but I thought that their sizes
are important (for the I/A install script to work).

Our D boxes originally came from Foxboro with 4.3 GB drive (Seagate
Medalist
4321, ST34321A) or 8.4 GB drive (Seagate Medalist 8420, ST38420A).

Thanks,

Duc

--
Duc M. Do
Process Control Systems
Dow Corning, Carrollton Plant
Carrollton, KY, US

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Re: CP30 to CP60 upgrade

2001-05-03 Thread Neil Martin


We have two FT pair of CP60s installed in our operating units and in both
cases the Fieldbus has caused us numerous headaches until we figured out
the correct installation.  In fact we are still having some problems.  We
thought the coax ethernet cabling would be easy, but we discovered
otherwise.  We have seen a lot of problems similar to yours.  The coax
ethernet installation is very different from the previous Fieldbus cabling.
Basis our experience, the way the terminators were installed or connection
problems, is our best guess as to the source of your problem.Here is
what some of what we have learned the hard way:

1.  Don't branch (split) the coax ethernet signal with tees.  Wire in a
serial path - go in one leg of a FBI10E and then out the other (every
FBI10E has 2 cables).  Put a terminator only at the end of the serially
wired leg.  There should be only a total of 2 terminators on each coax
Fieldbus (A/B) segment - one is probably at the CP end and the other is
probably at the field (FBM) end.

2.  If you are using coax to fiber media converters, the BNC connection at
each of the media converters has to be terminated.  In our case using the
Black Box media converters provided by Foxboro, we had to put a tee with a
terminator.

3.  We have a CP60FT installation that connects via coax to about 17 old
style FBMs using 3 pair of FBI10Es (3 different Field8 enclosures).  These
have not been a problem after we got the terminators and Fieldbus cabling
installed correctly.

4.  We have another CP60FT installation that connects to about 26 old style
FBMs (in an IE32) using a pair of FBI10Es and four 200 series I/O using a
pair of FCMs.  A fiber optic segment (using 2 coax to fiber media
converters each) is used in the middle of each of the Fieldbus A  B
cabling.  This installation has been a very big headache.  Now that we are
cabled serially and have terminators installed in the correct places, we
are still experiencing intermittent Fieldbus B problems (usually only with
the 200 series I/O which is at the end of the leg).  We punted on the
problem and called in Foxboro yesterday to look at it, the only thing
noticeably wrong with the installation is that we need a newer rev of
Fieldbus terminators that go on the 200 series I/O back plate.  I am not
sure if the new terminators will solve our problem, but I hope so.

One of the early problems with this installation was that we had problems
with some of the FBMs in the IE32 enclosure and it was before we installed
the 200 series I/O segment.  The FBMs in the enclosure were originally
split between 2 pair of FBI10Es and they were cabled serially.  To solve
the problem, I removed 1 pair of FBI10Es and used local extension cables to
connect the Fieldbus in the upper portion of the cabinet to the lower
portion of the cabinet.  Once we added the 200 series I/O then we had a new
set of problems.

5.  Is your Fieldbus properly terminated within your I/O rack/enclosure.
If it is not properly terminated, you are more apt to have a problem with
the new Fieldbus than you previously did with the older slower one.

6.  A bad coax terminator or tee could cause the problem.  I have heard of
a few problems with the FBI10E heads - I guess the cables might get
strained.

7.  Depending on your available slots, the number of FBMs involved, and the
number of different remote Fieldbus connections involved, I have found that
you can keep the old Fieldbus intact on the back end and only convert the
front end (CP end) by using both a Fieldbus Isolator and a FBI10E.  For
instance, you can take a I/O rack and put an FBI10E in slot 1 and a FBI in
slot 2.  Wire the FBI10E to your CP60 and wire your FBI to the old style
FBMs with the old style Fieldbus cabling.  Even if Foxboro supported this
arrangement, they would probably tell you not to have communications for
more than 21 FBMs going through a single FBI.

I hope there is something in this list that can help you.




   
   
Campbell John C
   
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Re: Failed FBM

2000-06-15 Thread Neil Martin


We add new FBMs all of the time and have not seen your problem, we have
seen something weird at V6.1   V6.1.1,  Sometimes when we install FBMs, or
possibly push/pull an FBM, the FBM will not auto boot.  The first thought
is that there is a failed FBM.  However, if the installer knows to try a
download of the module from System Mgmt., they will probably find that the
module will boot.


Neil Martin



   
  
Craig 
  
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] AT i-net@CCM
c.rookes@metcc: (bcc: Neil Martin/US/PC/HUNTSMAN) 
  
hanex.com ATSubject: Failed FBM   
  
i-net  
  
   
  
06/15/00   
  
03:35 PM   
  
   
  
   
  





Hi
I had a bad fault occur on one of our plant cp,s and wonder if anyone has
seen the same

We have a fault tolerant cp 30 with 10 different fbm,s connected to it running
software ver 6.1
I added a new fbm via ECB, install etc
I then added the new fbm to the first position on a y adapter which had a card
already in the second slot which was healthy
The new card didn't do anything (no red green ) but the card next to it
crashed.(red green)
buy taking out the healthy card, and trying in a new slot or new hardware
or delete / undeleting the ECB had no effect on getting it back. System
management showed the cards status as blue or red for the existing fbm when
tried to put online. Downloading seems to lock up the system (download is
enabled ) Currently we have no new fbm and one old fbm that wont work in
any slot ??
All hardware is ok
The same ver of software is loaded on a hotspare and the fbm,s can be added
no worries.
The major concern is that adding a new FBM to an existing system can crash
a active FBM??
Any thoughts





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Re: Back on the Soap Box

2000-07-20 Thread Neil Martin


To complicate the issue further, there are a few other scenarios we should
consider for our definition of what a bootless CP upgrades is:

1.  Some CPs are installed as non-Fault tolerant.  In fact, there is a
version of the CP60 that can not be made Fault Tolerant (not sure if it is
a physical limitation or just a license limitation).  Are we asking for a
bootless CP upgrade for this type of installation?

2.  Do we consider the Micro I/A to be a CP?  It is to me, but it can not
be made Fault Tolerant.




Neil Martin

Neil_Martin@hunTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] AT i-net@CCM
tsman.com AT   cc: (bcc: Neil
Martin/US/PC/HUNTSMAN)
i-net   Subject: Re: Back on the
Soap Box

07/19/00 04:51

PM









Folks,

I also would very much like to have bootless CP upgrades.  Since it can be
a complicated issue and may have different meanings to each of us, maybe it
would be helpful if we are all on the same page about how we are defining
an on-line upgrade and also that we have similar ideas as to how the CPs
function in general terms.  My assumptions are listed below, what does
everyone else think?  Feel free to make corrections.


1.  First, my understanding of block processing is that  the CP image (or
what ever you call it) contains one instance of the software for each block
type can possibly exist within the CP type.  This is like having a software
template for each block type.  When we create a block, basically it is just
the fill-in-the-blank text information and compiled sequence code that gets
downloaded into the CP.   Every block processing cycle, the CP goes down
the list of blocks in order looking for a block that needs to run, and
basis its block type, it runs the correct block software template and loads
the template with the correct information for processing.  By not
duplicating all of the software for a block every time a new one is
created, the CP saves on memory.

2. In the past, I believe the CP image could only be changed via a reboot
of the CP.  For a boot;less CP software upgrade, are we suggesting that
Foxboro a) not make any changes to the CP code - i.e. not make any
corrections, new parameters, or add features, b) not require the CP to be
rebooted to continue to operate as it previously has, c) to somehow make it
so that the CP processing can be put on hold while all of the block
template information is being changed out (If it takes a while, is it OK?),
or d) some other suggestion?






Stear; Bo

[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 'Foxboro Mail Forum'
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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 i-net@CCM

07/19/00 cc: (bcc: Neil
Martin/US/PC/HUNTSMAN)
04:43 PM Subject: Back on the Soap Box










Ok folks, time is drawing near for us to put our heads together and inform
Foxboro of our most important issues.  The International Users meeting is
just around the corner.  Let me repeat myself:

It is costing my company (and me as a stockholder) lotsa bucks to prepare
our process people, engineering people, and technical staff for an upgrade
to any Control Processor image.  It's dangerous and scary as well.  Some of
us have processes that can't possibly be interrupted for years at a time.
I've just recently found myself installing I/A on a furnace with an 18 year
turnaround.  Try that online...

Here's the plan.

Rather than give Foxboro too many issues to choose from, I would like to
get your help in making sure that a REAL online upgrade capability be the
TOP POLE item on any list they wish to compile this year.  We can only
accomplish this by putting aside some of our other (to me) smaller issues
until we either get this commitment or have them state that they can't do
it, ever.

Understand that this is a major undertaking and even if we can get this
done, it won't happen anytime soon.  I'm sure it will take a new way to
utilize the dual fieldbus and FT CP's to make this happen both on the
hardware and software side.  Until I am convinced that this is an
impossible request, online upgrades are my top priority.  I do know of at
least one other vendor that claims this capability.

For those of you that will be attending the meeting, please post your votes
with mine.

For those of you that can't attend, please write a C.A.R. requesting your
version of an online upgrade capability.  Do this BEFORE the meeting so
that they can start to get a feeling for our dedication.

Like you, I have a 'wish list' too.  I would really like to look around at
my 22 node system and find that I don't have anything to do.  No software
bugs, no CP reboots, no failed FBM's or processors.  These are short term
goals and you all probably know

Re: Alternative Displays

2000-10-19 Thread Neil Martin


Foxboro's touchscreen CRTs have a touchscreen unit in them that is made by
MicroTouch.  Foxboro has someone outfit the CRTs with the touchscreens.
Even more difficult is the thought that I believe the touchscreen
controller is not located in the CRT chassis.  I believe it is located in
the GCIO.  You will need to deal with someone that can provide a CRT that
has touchscreen hardware in it that is compatible with the GCIO.



   
   
Daren Bishop 
   
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 Foxboro screens (historically) are actually made by Sony Corp. You
 might be able to find replacements there, although will not be
 supported if you have a service contract.


__ Reply Separator
_
Subject: Alternative Displays
Author:  Foxboro DCS Mail List [EMAIL PROTECTED] at

INTERNET-MAIL
Date:10/19/00 2:51 PM


When we converted to I/A about six years ago, we got the big Sony monitors
with the touch screen option.  They are great to work with and the
operators
really like them.  Apparently they have a life span of about six years of
continuous use.  We have burned out seven of them in the past three months
and at this rate I don't expect the rest of them to last much longer.  I've

got 15 more displays to replace.  Soon.

I know that there are video display options besides the Foxboro offerings,
but I have yet to see any with a touch screen.  Have any of you found a
viable replacement?

Foxboro offers replacements, but $3000 is a lot to pay for a 20 TV set
that
only gets one channel --- even if you can use the screen as a remote.

Chuck Jones
Refinery Automation Technologist
A.E. Staley Mfg. Co. -- Lafayette South Plant

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Re: Return Alarm

2001-08-31 Thread Neil Martin


Have you tried SAO = TRUE and SCOPT = 1 (for all transitions)?




   
   
dhawly hawpyt
   
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Hi friends,


   ...Is it possible to have horn on announciator keyboard even if
alarm
returns back.It is coming while alarm comes but we require even when alarm
returns back?If yes,then how?

  On curren alarm Display ,RTNReturn Alarm is ot appearing
while
it is comng on AHD ,Alarm History Display. Is it possible to get RTN even
on
CAD and how?

Thanx in advance,

Sawly hawl




_







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Re: RAM

2001-09-04 Thread Neil Martin


The AW51B is a Sun SPARC 5.  I am only aware of 32MB RAM (SIMMs or DIMMs
??) being available.  You should consider 64MB to be the minimum, but 128MB
is recommended especially if you are running FoxView/FoxDraw.




   
   
hafedh ghodhbani 
   
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Gents,
What are  the different possible RAM chips and
sizes that an AW51B might has ?
What is the minimum RAM configuration that an AW51B
could run with?

Regards
Hafedh




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File system error massege

2001-09-04 Thread Neil Martin


Return Receipt
   
Your  File system error massege
document   
:  
   
was   Neil Martin/US/PC/HUNTSMAN   
received   
by:
   
at:   09/04/2001 10:52:28 AM   
   





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RE: PLC Question

2001-09-18 Thread Neil Martin


Alex,

I think the threads concerning NT started when someone picked up on an ARC
note that seemed to be saying Foxboro was migrating towards a new
architecture - essentially Wonderware on I/A NT.  I wonder if some one in
Foxboro Marketing could clarify the issue concerning the future directions
of Foxboro I/A on Unix?




   
   
Johnson, Alex (Foxboro)  
   
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Re: I will be able to make the choice of a Windoze based system that has
logged a few hours running process facilities as opposed to helping
Invensys
with development.

Without trying to address all of the issues being covered by this thread -
most of which are way beyond my purview, I must comment on this one
sentence. It seems to imply that we have no experience with MS Windows in
the Process Control market.

My points are:


*  Foxboro/Invensys has been shipping I/A Series systems with
Microsoft
Windows based WPs and AWs for as long or longer than any of our competitors
and
*  All of our Microsoft Windows based stations are as capable of
running a big plant as the corresponding Solaris system.

With regard to the first bullet, I'm pretty sure that our 70-Series
pre-dates Honeywell's GUS on Intel platforms and may be even on the PowerPC
platform. I know it pre-dates Delta-V by several years.


In any case, while there are differences in the offered OSs and their
capabilities, please bear in mind that different companies feel differently
about operating systems and we believe that you should have a choice.


One last item, I'd like to remind you of two of our guiding principles. We
are committed:

*  To sell our customers what they want and
*  To support our products as long as they are needed by our
customers.



Thanks for your time. I appreciate the open and honest feedback from you
folks. After all, you feed my family.



Regards,


Alex Johnson
10707 Haddington
Houston, TX 77043
713.722.2859 (office)
713.722.2700 (switchboard)
713.932.0222 (fax)
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Re: Contact Information

2001-09-19 Thread Neil Martin


Return Receipt
   
Your  Re: Contact Information  
document   
:  
   
was   Neil Martin/US/PC/HUNTSMAN   
received   
by:
   
at:   09/19/2001 03:44:27 PM   
   





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