Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Peter Gold]

Hi, David:

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 10:43 AM, David Creamer <
ideasli...@ideastraining.com> wrote:

> I liked the color icons because it is easier for the (my?) brain to quickly
> recognize a color icon. For example, I just need to look for the red arrow
> for the file import icon. It takes less time to process.
>

Thanks for posting something on this thread to have differences about
without arguing!

It's interesting how everyone has an individual favorite strategy of using
tools. As a trainer, one challenge is to offer students options and reasons
for each, so they can choose what works for them, not necessarily the
trainer's favorite.​

Although I'm kind of a visual thinker and learner, reading your post
reminds me that I usually think of the function or task first, then, how to
perform it. In this example, I'd think "file import" first, then...hmmm...?
Do I look for something red to mouse toward and click upon? Or do I type
Esc f i f, or Alt+f and a couple of DnArrow?

For icon clickers who rely on colors to identify tools and actions quickly,
yes, color matters a lot! They deserve the choice.

TGFO (thank goodness for options.)

I always liked Marshall McCluhan's recorded version of "The Medium is the
Message," in which he cites: "We shape our tools, and thereafter, our tools
shape us." Then he followed it with an echo-filtered version, "We *ape *our
tools, and thereafter, our tools *ape* us."
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[Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[David Creamer]

I liked the color icons because it is easier for the (my?) brain to quickly
recognize a color icon. For example, I just need to look for the red arrow
for the file import icon. It takes less time to process.

David Creamer
IDEAS Training
http://www.IDEAStraining.com
Adobe Certified Instructor and Certified FrameMaker Consultatin since 1991




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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Shmuel Wolfson]

I don't have a need fro high contrast, but I dislike a drab-looking, 
colorless interface.


-


On 26-Mar-17 6:39 PM, Craig Ede wrote:

Shmuel,


I haven't followed all these emails too closely, but the issue seems to have 
been that the development resources went to redoing the icon system to satisfy 
very high resolution monitors and, as a result, the color icons for supporting 
that new system we shelved (at least for the moment). This indicates that 
providing the option (given the support of the hi-res monitors) is not without 
costs in time and money.


I expect given the outcry on this that Adobe my find the time and money in the 
near future, but who knows. For me, it is a non-issue.


C-


From: Framers <framers-bounces+craigede=hotmail@lists.frameusers.com> on behalf 
of Shmuel Wolfson <shmue...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 5:23 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com; Stefan Gentz - Adobe
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

There really is no reason why not to give the user an option to select
colored icons if they want. You can make the default icon color to match
Adobe's "look," but I think you should allow the user to change to the
other look if they desire, such as colored icons.

I think that would be the best way to satisfy all users.

--
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
058-763-7133


On 20-Mar-17 9:37 PM, Stefan Gentz wrote:

Dear Alison,

I'm so sorry, if you felt that my original mail was offensive to you. That's not at all 
what I wanted! When I was writing about a "young and fresh team full of energy" 
I did not in any way wanted to imply anything negative about older people. Not at all!

Let me explain where I was coming from, please: I know the product and all 
these complaints since 20 years - 19 years before I started at Adobe. And I did 
the same complaints than many other here. And why did I do this? Because I made 
the same experiences and got frustrated from time to time as well. And you know 
what? Personally I think it was very valid to criticize a lot of things and it 
was often very legitimate.

But things have changed. The Adobe TechComm team that I know today has a very customer 
focused, open and listening attitude. We want your feedback, we want your bug reports and 
we want to fix them. We even go out and actively "hunt for bugs" in forums and 
with customers, and we want to improve the product, and we want to and we do solve old, 
long outstanding bugs and problems. This is true for the support team, true for the 
engineering team and true for all other of my colleagues in the Adobe TechComm team.

And yes, I do think it's sometimes good to let history be history. That does 
not mean forgetting and that does not mean ignoring history. Yes, I absolutely 
agree with you that we do need to learn from history to make the future better. 
And, believe me – as a German I grew up with that attitude my whole life. It's 
so to say deep in my DNA. But sometimes it's also good to accept that things 
change: Life, business, colleagues, friends etc. – and then move forward, focus 
on the future, take a new look at things, realistically review the status quo 
and compare it with the past. And sometimes it's also a good idea to accept 
that people, products and companies can and do change their attitudes and are 
doing better.

By the way, Adobe is one of the best employers worldwide, and gets the best rankings from their employees year after year, and 
Adobe is treating their employees very well in many aspects and has a great culture of diversity, equality, respect and 
creativity. I'm not aware of anyone in my team who what not sign that immediately. And maybe that's why we are "fresh and 
with a lot of energy". Young is relative (I'm 41 "only"? "already"?). And maybe it's more about staying 
"young" in the mind and an attitude. So yes, we are a "young" team, with many fresh and good ideas, full of 
innovation, energized to solve old problems and come up with great new solutions.
There are of course people in the team who are in the team for many years. But for a 
product that has a 30 years history, it's normal in the IT world that teams change. 
People join and leave over the years. That has nothing to do with "bad 
treatment" or anything negative you might want to want to imply. It's just normal 
life.

That said, sorry, if you felt that my original mail was offensive to you. 
That's not at all what I wanted.
So, and now I will open a ticket in our system for implementing something that Rick 
Quatro had send me earlier today. Another of those "old" (may I?), long pending 
request :-)

Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist



-Original Message-
From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+gentz=adobe@lists.frameusers.com] On 
Behalf

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Craig Ede]

Shmuel,


I haven't followed all these emails too closely, but the issue seems to have 
been that the development resources went to redoing the icon system to satisfy 
very high resolution monitors and, as a result, the color icons for supporting 
that new system we shelved (at least for the moment). This indicates that 
providing the option (given the support of the hi-res monitors) is not without 
costs in time and money.


I expect given the outcry on this that Adobe my find the time and money in the 
near future, but who knows. For me, it is a non-issue.


C-


From: Framers <framers-bounces+craigede=hotmail@lists.frameusers.com> on 
behalf of Shmuel Wolfson <shmue...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 5:23 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com; Stefan Gentz - Adobe
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

There really is no reason why not to give the user an option to select
colored icons if they want. You can make the default icon color to match
Adobe's "look," but I think you should allow the user to change to the
other look if they desire, such as colored icons.

I think that would be the best way to satisfy all users.

--
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
058-763-7133


On 20-Mar-17 9:37 PM, Stefan Gentz wrote:
> Dear Alison,
>
> I'm so sorry, if you felt that my original mail was offensive to you. That's 
> not at all what I wanted! When I was writing about a "young and fresh team 
> full of energy" I did not in any way wanted to imply anything negative about 
> older people. Not at all!
>
> Let me explain where I was coming from, please: I know the product and all 
> these complaints since 20 years - 19 years before I started at Adobe. And I 
> did the same complaints than many other here. And why did I do this? Because 
> I made the same experiences and got frustrated from time to time as well. And 
> you know what? Personally I think it was very valid to criticize a lot of 
> things and it was often very legitimate.
>
> But things have changed. The Adobe TechComm team that I know today has a very 
> customer focused, open and listening attitude. We want your feedback, we want 
> your bug reports and we want to fix them. We even go out and actively "hunt 
> for bugs" in forums and with customers, and we want to improve the product, 
> and we want to and we do solve old, long outstanding bugs and problems. This 
> is true for the support team, true for the engineering team and true for all 
> other of my colleagues in the Adobe TechComm team.
>
> And yes, I do think it's sometimes good to let history be history. That does 
> not mean forgetting and that does not mean ignoring history. Yes, I 
> absolutely agree with you that we do need to learn from history to make the 
> future better. And, believe me – as a German I grew up with that attitude my 
> whole life. It's so to say deep in my DNA. But sometimes it's also good to 
> accept that things change: Life, business, colleagues, friends etc. – and 
> then move forward, focus on the future, take a new look at things, 
> realistically review the status quo and compare it with the past. And 
> sometimes it's also a good idea to accept that people, products and companies 
> can and do change their attitudes and are doing better.
>
> By the way, Adobe is one of the best employers worldwide, and gets the best 
> rankings from their employees year after year, and Adobe is treating their 
> employees very well in many aspects and has a great culture of diversity, 
> equality, respect and creativity. I'm not aware of anyone in my team who what 
> not sign that immediately. And maybe that's why we are "fresh and with a lot 
> of energy". Young is relative (I'm 41 "only"? "already"?). And maybe it's 
> more about staying "young" in the mind and an attitude. So yes, we are a 
> "young" team, with many fresh and good ideas, full of innovation, energized 
> to solve old problems and come up with great new solutions.
> There are of course people in the team who are in the team for many years. 
> But for a product that has a 30 years history, it's normal in the IT world 
> that teams change. People join and leave over the years. That has nothing to 
> do with "bad treatment" or anything negative you might want to want to imply. 
> It's just normal life.
>
> That said, sorry, if you felt that my original mail was offensive to you. 
> That's not at all what I wanted.
> So, and now I will open a ticket in our system for implementing something 
> that Rick Quatro had send me earlier today. Another of those "old" (may I?), 
> long pending request :-)
>
> Regards,
> Stefan Gentz
> Adobe Worldwide Tech

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Shmuel Wolfson]

There really is no reason why not to give the user an option to select 
colored icons if they want. You can make the default icon color to match 
Adobe's "look," but I think you should allow the user to change to the 
other look if they desire, such as colored icons.


I think that would be the best way to satisfy all users.

--
Shmuel Wolfson
Technical Writer
058-763-7133


On 20-Mar-17 9:37 PM, Stefan Gentz wrote:

Dear Alison,

I'm so sorry, if you felt that my original mail was offensive to you. That's not at all 
what I wanted! When I was writing about a "young and fresh team full of energy" 
I did not in any way wanted to imply anything negative about older people. Not at all!

Let me explain where I was coming from, please: I know the product and all 
these complaints since 20 years - 19 years before I started at Adobe. And I did 
the same complaints than many other here. And why did I do this? Because I made 
the same experiences and got frustrated from time to time as well. And you know 
what? Personally I think it was very valid to criticize a lot of things and it 
was often very legitimate.

But things have changed. The Adobe TechComm team that I know today has a very customer 
focused, open and listening attitude. We want your feedback, we want your bug reports and 
we want to fix them. We even go out and actively "hunt for bugs" in forums and 
with customers, and we want to improve the product, and we want to and we do solve old, 
long outstanding bugs and problems. This is true for the support team, true for the 
engineering team and true for all other of my colleagues in the Adobe TechComm team.

And yes, I do think it's sometimes good to let history be history. That does 
not mean forgetting and that does not mean ignoring history. Yes, I absolutely 
agree with you that we do need to learn from history to make the future better. 
And, believe me – as a German I grew up with that attitude my whole life. It's 
so to say deep in my DNA. But sometimes it's also good to accept that things 
change: Life, business, colleagues, friends etc. – and then move forward, focus 
on the future, take a new look at things, realistically review the status quo 
and compare it with the past. And sometimes it's also a good idea to accept 
that people, products and companies can and do change their attitudes and are 
doing better.

By the way, Adobe is one of the best employers worldwide, and gets the best rankings from their employees year after year, and 
Adobe is treating their employees very well in many aspects and has a great culture of diversity, equality, respect and 
creativity. I'm not aware of anyone in my team who what not sign that immediately. And maybe that's why we are "fresh and 
with a lot of energy". Young is relative (I'm 41 "only"? "already"?). And maybe it's more about staying 
"young" in the mind and an attitude. So yes, we are a "young" team, with many fresh and good ideas, full of 
innovation, energized to solve old problems and come up with great new solutions.
There are of course people in the team who are in the team for many years. But for a 
product that has a 30 years history, it's normal in the IT world that teams change. 
People join and leave over the years. That has nothing to do with "bad 
treatment" or anything negative you might want to want to imply. It's just normal 
life.

That said, sorry, if you felt that my original mail was offensive to you. 
That's not at all what I wanted.
So, and now I will open a ticket in our system for implementing something that Rick 
Quatro had send me earlier today. Another of those "old" (may I?), long pending 
request :-)
  
Regards,

Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist

  


-Original Message-
From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+gentz=adobe@lists.frameusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Craig, Alison
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 19:28
To: Peter Gold <peter@petergold.photography>; An email list for people using Adobe 
FrameMaker software. <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

I’m sorry but this is offensive to me on so many levels – possibly others as 
well. And it’s indicative of too many players in the software world these days.

And? History is history! More or less no one from the old FrameMaker days is in 
the FrameMaker team today. Product Managers, engineers, QA, etc. – the whole 
team is pretty young and fresh. And with a lot of energy.

History isn’t just history. Remember "those who do not learn history are doomed to 
repeat it" which means you make the same mistakes over and over. Sound familiar when 
taken in context with some of the comments in this thread?
It’s not an accomplishment to say “More or less no one from the old FrameMaker 
days is in the FrameMaker team today”. That’s a sad commentary

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Stefan Gentz]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for sharing your personal point of view one more time. Please rest 
assured, that there is definitively no “Corporate risk management philosophy 
that tries to balance customer acceptance of a product with customer 
dissatisfaction.” That’s not the way it goes at Adobe. Also, please rest 
assured, I will share your view with the team in our next meeting.


Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
[Adobe]<http://www.adobe.com/>  [Adobe TCS Icon] 
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From: knowhow...@gmail.com [mailto:knowhow...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Peter Gold
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 15:40
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 
<framers@lists.frameusers.com>; Stefan Gentz <ge...@adobe.com>; 
hedley.fin...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

Once, again, Stefan, with all due respect. I agree with Hedley's point:

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 8:38 PM, Hedley Finger 
<hedley.fin...@gmail.com<mailto:hedley.fin...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Stefan:

Usability trumps calming.

Hedley

The current main issue, from a user's point of view, is how the product 
performs. In the current release, the product has regressed in the most obvious 
way - the way that users see it on their monitors - and it imposes a burden on 
them - namely, having to re-create screen shots because of those visible 
changes.

The underlying issue is the product's engineering architecture, which 
historically has been difficult to repair and to advance.

The corporate decisions that accelerate release cycles, and reduce development 
resources, affect the quality of the product. Corporate risk management 
philosophy that tries to balance customer acceptance of a product with customer 
dissatisfaction, is what's at play here.

Users appreciate the work that goes into making the product. They don't 
appreciate excuses for why the product regresses or fails to work in essential 
areas.

Perhaps you can employ the user-community arguments you're hearing here to help 
bolster your case with Adobe management, to win better support for the 
development process.

There's no doubt that the problems were seen and commented upon during 
pre-release testing, by the developers and the volunteer pre-release testers. 
That the product was released with the unfixed problems, indicates that the 
decision-makers ruled in favor of something other than usability. That's the 
issue.


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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Peter Gold]

Once, again, Stefan, with all due respect. I agree with Hedley's point:

>
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 8:38 PM, Hedley Finger 
>  wrote:

Stefan:
>
> Usability trumps calming.
>
> Hedley


The current main issue, from a user's point of view, is how the product
performs. In the current release, the product has regressed in the most
obvious way - the way that users see it on their monitors - and it imposes
a burden on them - namely, having to re-create screen shots because of
those visible changes.

The underlying issue is the product's engineering architecture, which
historically has been difficult to repair and to advance.

The corporate decisions that accelerate release cycles, and reduce
development resources, affect the quality of the product. Corporate risk
management philosophy that tries to balance customer acceptance of a
product with customer dissatisfaction, is what's at play here.

Users appreciate the work that goes into making the product. They don't
appreciate excuses for why the product regresses or fails to work in
essential areas.

Perhaps you can employ the user-community arguments you're hearing here to
help bolster your case with Adobe management, to win better support for the
development process.

There's no doubt that the problems were seen and commented upon during
pre-release testing, by the developers and the volunteer pre-release
testers. That the product was released with the unfixed problems, indicates
that the decision-makers ruled in favor of something other than usability.
That's the issue.
___

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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Hedley Finger]

Stefan:

Usability trumps calming.

Hedley

On 17 March 2017 at 10:40, Stefan Gentz <ge...@adobe.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> we heard you!
>
> Thanks for all your feedback on the new icon design. We do appreciate your
> feedback.
>
> As you might imagine, we did not take the decision to go for a uni-color
> design easy and a lot of considerations and user feedback went into this.
> And yes, there was a diverse feedback from users: Some users liked the
> colored icons (for reasons many if you mentioned here as well) and strongly
> encouraged us to keep the colored icons, others preferred a uni-color
> design as they are used to it from other Adobe Apps and because they
> preferred a more "calm", less "distracting" working environment and
> strongly encouraged us to go for this. Also there is a wide range of users
> worldwide throughout many countries and cultures and age groups with a wide
> range of expectations.
>
> And no, we did not "dismiss and belittled" feedback in the prerelease
> phase. But the feedback came in a very late phase and there was no time
> left to take this into consideration. There are hundreds of icons and the
> majority of them are in multiple sites for the new high-dpi screen
> compatibility. It's nothing that can be done "overnight".
>
> Again, we did hear you and understand that there is a wide range of
> personal preferences and tastes. We will discuss this over the next weeks
> internally and explore the possibilities to satisfy the wishes from both
> user groups – those who like the colored icons and those who prefer
> uni-colored icons.
>
> By the way, my personal take on this is: I like the uni-color design and
> prefer it over the colored icons. I like it, because it's more calm and
> allows me to focus more on the content and get less distracted by a big
> bunch of "candy-colored" icons (yes, Matt Sullivan, I know … ;-)).
> I'm just used to this style as I also work every day in PhotoShop,
> Illustrator and InDesign as well. And I'm used to it, as many modern apps,
> tools, systems all have this kind of design. I just like it and it's for
> sure a personal preference.
> By the way, I work with FrameMaker intensively for more than 20 years and
> have pushed out several million of pages and went through all the UI
> changes over the last ten product generations. And personally I think the
> new FM 2017 UI is the best FrameMaker ever had – in terms of logical
> enhancements and restructuring, terminology enhancements and consistency,
> user-friendliness and productivity enhancements and technical advancements
> (I'm running FM on a modern high-dpi screen and LOVE the crystal clear,
> sharp UI and text editing).
> But again, that's just my personal 2 cents as a hardcore and long-term
> user ;-)
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Stefan Gentz
> Global Evangelist, Technical Communication
> [Adobe]<http://www.adobe.com/>  [Adobe TCS Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/
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> communications_suite>
>
>
> On 16 Mar 2017, at 18:38, Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com<mailto:lj
> sims...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> For those who might be curious, we're up to 32 votes!
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com<mailto:lj
> sims...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> And pretty soon they may think you've started a movement.
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig, Alison <acr...@bkultrasound.com<
> mailto:acr...@bkultrasound.com>>
> wrote:
>
> I voted for both of them.
>
> Very timely as well - having just had an ophthalmology appointm

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Stefan Gentz]

Dear Alison,

I'm so sorry, if you felt that my original mail was offensive to you. That's 
not at all what I wanted! When I was writing about a "young and fresh team full 
of energy" I did not in any way wanted to imply anything negative about older 
people. Not at all!

Let me explain where I was coming from, please: I know the product and all 
these complaints since 20 years - 19 years before I started at Adobe. And I did 
the same complaints than many other here. And why did I do this? Because I made 
the same experiences and got frustrated from time to time as well. And you know 
what? Personally I think it was very valid to criticize a lot of things and it 
was often very legitimate.

But things have changed. The Adobe TechComm team that I know today has a very 
customer focused, open and listening attitude. We want your feedback, we want 
your bug reports and we want to fix them. We even go out and actively "hunt for 
bugs" in forums and with customers, and we want to improve the product, and we 
want to and we do solve old, long outstanding bugs and problems. This is true 
for the support team, true for the engineering team and true for all other of 
my colleagues in the Adobe TechComm team.

And yes, I do think it's sometimes good to let history be history. That does 
not mean forgetting and that does not mean ignoring history. Yes, I absolutely 
agree with you that we do need to learn from history to make the future better. 
And, believe me – as a German I grew up with that attitude my whole life. It's 
so to say deep in my DNA. But sometimes it's also good to accept that things 
change: Life, business, colleagues, friends etc. – and then move forward, focus 
on the future, take a new look at things, realistically review the status quo 
and compare it with the past. And sometimes it's also a good idea to accept 
that people, products and companies can and do change their attitudes and are 
doing better.

By the way, Adobe is one of the best employers worldwide, and gets the best 
rankings from their employees year after year, and Adobe is treating their 
employees very well in many aspects and has a great culture of diversity, 
equality, respect and creativity. I'm not aware of anyone in my team who what 
not sign that immediately. And maybe that's why we are "fresh and with a lot of 
energy". Young is relative (I'm 41 "only"? "already"?). And maybe it's more 
about staying "young" in the mind and an attitude. So yes, we are a "young" 
team, with many fresh and good ideas, full of innovation, energized to solve 
old problems and come up with great new solutions.
There are of course people in the team who are in the team for many years. But 
for a product that has a 30 years history, it's normal in the IT world that 
teams change. People join and leave over the years. That has nothing to do with 
"bad treatment" or anything negative you might want to want to imply. It's just 
normal life.

That said, sorry, if you felt that my original mail was offensive to you. 
That's not at all what I wanted.
So, and now I will open a ticket in our system for implementing something that 
Rick Quatro had send me earlier today. Another of those "old" (may I?), long 
pending request :-)
 
Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist

 

-Original Message-
From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+gentz=adobe@lists.frameusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Craig, Alison
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 19:28
To: Peter Gold <peter@petergold.photography>; An email list for people using 
Adobe FrameMaker software. <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

I’m sorry but this is offensive to me on so many levels – possibly others as 
well. And it’s indicative of too many players in the software world these days.
>> And? History is history! More or less no one from the old FrameMaker days is 
>> in the FrameMaker team today. Product Managers, engineers, QA, etc. – the 
>> whole team is pretty young and fresh. And with a lot of energy.
History isn’t just history. Remember "those who do not learn history are doomed 
to repeat it" which means you make the same mistakes over and over. Sound 
familiar when taken in context with some of the comments in this thread?
It’s not an accomplishment to say “More or less no one from the old FrameMaker 
days is in the FrameMaker team today”. That’s a sad commentary on the way Adobe 
(among others) does business and how it treats its employees.
And “young and fresh…with a lot of energy” in this context is nothing to brag 
about. It implies that older, experienced personnel just drag down the team..
“Tried and true” can be better for *good* reason. I’ve personally seen “young 
and fresh” team members push for something that’s long since been rejected by 
users as the o

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Scott Turner]

As an example, one only has to look at the kludge that Microsoft made of Word. 
It is not as easy to do perform certain function or to access features. New and 
fresh can be simply, "we needed to justify getting more money from our users."

> On Mar 20, 2017, at 13:27, Craig, Alison <acr...@bkultrasound.com> wrote:
> 
> I’m sorry but this is offensive to me on so many levels – possibly others as 
> well. And it’s indicative of too many players in the software world these 
> days.
>>> And? History is history! More or less no one from the old FrameMaker days 
>>> is in the FrameMaker team today. Product Managers, engineers, QA, etc. – 
>>> the whole team is pretty young and fresh. And with a lot of energy.
> History isn’t just history. Remember "those who do not learn history are 
> doomed to repeat it" which means you make the same mistakes over and over. 
> Sound familiar when taken in context with some of the comments in this thread?
> It’s not an accomplishment to say “More or less no one from the old 
> FrameMaker days is in the FrameMaker team today”. That’s a sad commentary on 
> the way Adobe (among others) does business and how it treats its employees.
> And “young and fresh…with a lot of energy” in this context is nothing to brag 
> about. It implies that older, experienced personnel just drag down the team..
> “Tried and true” can be better for *good* reason. I’ve personally seen “young 
> and fresh” team members push for something that’s long since been rejected by 
> users as the opposite of what’s actually needed or even worse, completely 
> useless. But hey, it’s cute and/or trendy! And isn’t that what counts?
> Experienced team members with an ingrained history of the program’s 
> development arc can steer the team away from revisiting *proven* bad ideas 
> and the more obvious *silly* ones. Of course, that’s only if they have the 
> stamina and energy to get out bed every morning and make it to work at all, 
> let alone on time.
> Alison Craig
> Technical Documentation Specialist
> BK Ultrasound | acr...@bkultrasound.com
> 
> From: Framers 
> [mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=bkultrasound@lists.frameusers.com] On 
> Behalf Of Stefan Gentz
> Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2017 4:25 AM
> To: Peter Gold
> Cc: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
> menu icons
> 
> Hi Peter,
> 
> my history with FrameMaker might be short and small compared to yours (I have 
> only about 20 years of FrameMaker history on my shoulders, only something 
> like +50,000 hours of working with FM, and only several million pages proc

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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Craig, Alison]

I’m sorry but this is offensive to me on so many levels – possibly others as 
well. And it’s indicative of too many players in the software world these days.
>> And? History is history! More or less no one from the old FrameMaker days is 
>> in the FrameMaker team today. Product Managers, engineers, QA, etc. – the 
>> whole team is pretty young and fresh. And with a lot of energy.
History isn’t just history. Remember "those who do not learn history are doomed 
to repeat it" which means you make the same mistakes over and over. Sound 
familiar when taken in context with some of the comments in this thread?
It’s not an accomplishment to say “More or less no one from the old FrameMaker 
days is in the FrameMaker team today”. That’s a sad commentary on the way Adobe 
(among others) does business and how it treats its employees.
And “young and fresh…with a lot of energy” in this context is nothing to brag 
about. It implies that older, experienced personnel just drag down the team..
“Tried and true” can be better for *good* reason. I’ve personally seen “young 
and fresh” team members push for something that’s long since been rejected by 
users as the opposite of what’s actually needed or even worse, completely 
useless. But hey, it’s cute and/or trendy! And isn’t that what counts?
Experienced team members with an ingrained history of the program’s development 
arc can steer the team away from revisiting *proven* bad ideas and the more 
obvious *silly* ones. Of course, that’s only if they have the stamina and 
energy to get out bed every morning and make it to work at all, let alone on 
time.
Alison Craig
Technical Documentation Specialist
BK Ultrasound | acr...@bkultrasound.com

From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=bkultrasound@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf 
Of Stefan Gentz
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2017 4:25 AM
To: Peter Gold
Cc: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

Hi Peter,

my history with FrameMaker might be short and small compared to yours (I have 
only about 20 years of FrameMaker history on my shoulders, only something like 
+50,000 hours of working with FM, and only several million pages processed for 
all kind of companies from very small to super big in only up to 60 languages 
in both unstructured and structured FrameMaker). But I know many of the fights 
you fought as well and understand very well where you are coming from.

I remember very well the time when I modified the fmdlg.dll in the late 90ies 
and early two thousands to make several dialogs bigger (especially the xref 
dialog). Or how I hacked the FrameMaker.exe to output unmodified bookmarks code 
into ps and created fmroman to Unicode mapping tables, and hooked them into 
distillers epilog.ps. Or my scripts to do regex-based find & replace in MIF 
source code because the find & replace in FrameMaker was, let’s say: very 
basic. And I remember very well my yearlong fights for Unicode in FrameMaker 
and later on my yearlong fights for Right-To-Left support. I have fought 
countless fights with Adobe for about 20 years, before I finally joined them. 
So, tell me something, Peter …

And? History is history! More or less no one from the old FrameMaker days is in 
the FrameMaker team today. Product Managers, engineers, QA, etc. – the whole 
team is pretty young and fresh. And with a lot of energy. And in the last two 
years only they have tackled hundreds and hundreds of long and outstanding 
community wishes and requirements and many old bugs. Over the last 20 years a 
lot of them had accumulated. And in the last 2 years only, a big bunch of them 
were fixed and delivered. There are still some left and we are already working 
on them. With the soon to come Update 1 for FrameMaker we will fix and deliver 
on the next bunch of some long-time requests and bugs.

Adobe pushed FM development in the last 2 years heavily. The release cycles 
become much shorter and every three months a bigger update with new 
enhancements and bug fixes is rolled out. Our list of community wished is 
getting shorter every day and we have already started on tackling several other 
bigger areas of improvement.

Maybe it’s time, Peter, to adjust your negative picture that you have built 
over the last 20, 30 years.


Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
[Adobe]<http://www.adobe.com/><http://www.adobe.com/%3e> [Adobe TCS Icon] 
<http://www.adobe.com/products/technicalcommunicationsuite.html><http://www.adobe.com/products/technicalcommunicationsuite.html%3e>
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<http://www.adob

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Peter Gold]

t; <http://www.adobe.com/products/technicalcommunicationsuite.html>  [image:
> Adobe FrameMaker Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker.html>  
> [image:
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>
> Connect with us:
>
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> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/facebook-128-128px.jpg]
> Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/adobetcs> | [image:
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> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/LinkedIn.jpg] LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/groups/2381149> | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/YouTube.jpg] YouTube
> <https://www.youtube.com/user/AdobeTCS> | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/Blog.jpg] Our Blog
> <http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/> | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/Forum-Chats.jpg] Adobe TCS
> User Forum
> <https://forums.adobe.com/community/technical_communications_suite>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* knowhow...@gmail.com [mailto:knowhow...@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of 
> *Peter
> Gold
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2017 01:35
> *To:* Stefan Gentz <ge...@adobe.com>
> *Cc:* Peter Gold <peter@petergold.photography>; An email list for people
> using Adobe FrameMaker software. <framers@lists.frameusers.com>; Lin Sims
> <ljsims...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and
> scaling to menu icons
>
>
>
> ​Hi, Stefan:
>
>
>
> Thanks for your detailed reply.
>
>
>
> Again, with all due respect, your short history with FrameMaker puts you
> at a disadvantage, because, over the decades, many of the detailed recent
> feature enhancements, additions, and bug-fixes you noted, have been kicked
> to the "for future action" lists many times over.
>
>
>
> We do appreciate the effort it's taken all the team members to achieve
> these improvements. We've never doubted the sincere dedication that the
> FrameMaker developers and teammates bring to the challenges of moving FM
> forward.
>
>
>
> However, the over-arching reality is that the decision-makers who
> apportion the bare-subsistence budget to development are in control, so
> despite the good intentions and dedication of the development team to meet
> the competitive needs and customer/user requirements and requests, they
> continue to exist in the same borderline-survival mode.
>
>
>
> One of the earliest and perennially-reappearing feature-enhancement
> requests that I can remember was the ability to resize the text size of
> menu commands, with the corollary request to be able to resize dialog boxes
> and their contents. Over the years some smart folks figured out
> operating-system tweaks and hacks that offered some help here, but the
> difficulty of bringing the feature into the product indicates the flawed
> architecture.
>
>
>
> I can't remember how many years of requests it took until FM finally got a
> multiple-Undo history feature. The mantra excuse from early-on was
> "re-engineering to support that feature takes resources and time we do not
> have. Sorry. Maybe next release. Thanks for your request." I built a kludgy
> substitute with a keystroke-recording utility in the early days, just to
> have a tool for my needs.
>
>
>
> In 1994, I joined an independent Sun Computer reseller as their FrameMaker
> trainer. Their customer names included nearly all the major high-tech
> companies in Silicon Valley. (Oh, where have they gone? We turn our lonely
> eyes...) They had just introduced an add-on that gave FM tables the ability
> to perform like spreadsheets. It became successful, so they tried to
> interest Frame Technology in licensing it. However, just then, Adobe bought
> FM, and they turned it down, because "we have plans to build that into a
> future release." That never happened. Maybe it was the scarcity of
> resources? Hm... Some years later, I learned from the CEO of my company,
> that he'd thought of it one day, and gave it to a couple of programmers who
> built it in a few days. It worked, solved a user need, sold well, had
> value, and then became a part of history, because they were expecting Adobe
> to make it and pre-empt their opportunity.
>
>
>
> What's really surprising and ennobling about FM, is how much the original
> designers and developers got right about it - from the earliest releases,
> FM reli

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Stefan Gentz]

Hi Peter,

my history with FrameMaker might be short and small compared to yours (I have 
only about 20 years of FrameMaker history on my shoulders, only something like 
+50,000 hours of working with FM, and only several million pages processed for 
all kind of companies from very small to super big in only up to 60 languages 
in both unstructured and structured FrameMaker). But I know many of the fights 
you fought as well and understand very well where you are coming from.

I remember very well the time when I modified the fmdlg.dll in the late 90ies 
and early two thousands to make several dialogs bigger (especially the xref 
dialog). Or how I hacked the FrameMaker.exe to output unmodified bookmarks code 
into ps and created fmroman to Unicode mapping tables, and hooked them into 
distillers epilog.ps. Or my scripts to do regex-based find & replace in MIF 
source code because the find & replace in FrameMaker was, let’s say: very 
basic. And I remember very well my yearlong fights for Unicode in FrameMaker 
and later on my yearlong fights for Right-To-Left support. I have fought 
countless fights with Adobe for about 20 years, before I finally joined them. 
So, tell me something, Peter …

And? History is history! More or less no one from the old FrameMaker days is in 
the FrameMaker team today. Product Managers, engineers, QA, etc. – the whole 
team is pretty young and fresh. And with a lot of energy. And in the last two 
years only they have tackled hundreds and hundreds of long and outstanding 
community wishes and requirements and many old bugs. Over the last 20 years a 
lot of them had accumulated. And in the last 2 years only, a big bunch of them 
were fixed and delivered. There are still some left and we are already working 
on them. With the soon to come Update 1 for FrameMaker we will fix and deliver 
on the next bunch of some long-time requests and bugs.

Adobe pushed FM development in the last 2 years heavily. The release cycles 
become much shorter and every three months a bigger update with new 
enhancements and bug fixes is rolled out. Our list of community wished is 
getting shorter every day and we have already started on tackling several other 
bigger areas of improvement.

Maybe it’s time, Peter, to adjust your negative picture that you have built 
over the last 20, 30 years.


Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
[Adobe]<http://www.adobe.com/>  [Adobe TCS Icon] 
<http://www.adobe.com/products/technicalcommunicationsuite.html>   [Adobe 
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From: knowhow...@gmail.com [mailto:knowhow...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Peter Gold
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2017 01:35
To: Stefan Gentz <ge...@adobe.com>
Cc: Peter Gold <peter@petergold.photography>; An email list for people using 
Adobe FrameMaker software. <framers@lists.frameusers.com>; Lin Sims 
<ljsims...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

​Hi, Stefan:

Thanks for your detailed reply.

Again, with all due respect, your short history with FrameMaker puts you at a 
disadvantage, because, over the decades, many of the detailed recent feature 
enhancements, additions, and bug-fixes you noted, have been kicked to the "for 
future action" lists many times over.

We do appreciate the effort it's taken all the team members to achieve these 
improvements. We've never doubted the sincere dedication that the FrameMaker 
developers and teammates bring to the challenges of moving FM forward.

However, the over-arching reality is that the decision-makers who apportion the 
bare-subsistence budget to development are in control, so despite the good 
intentions and dedication of the development team to meet the competitive needs 
and customer/user requirements and requests, they continue to exist in the same 
borderline-survival mode.

One of the earliest and perennially-reap

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Peter Gold]

​Hi, Stefan:

Thanks for your detailed reply.

Again, with all due respect, your short history with FrameMaker puts you at
a disadvantage, because, over the decades, many of the detailed recent
feature enhancements, additions, and bug-fixes you noted, have been kicked
to the "for future action" lists many times over.

We do appreciate the effort it's taken all the team members to achieve
these improvements. We've never doubted the sincere dedication that the
FrameMaker developers and teammates bring to the challenges of moving FM
forward.

However, the over-arching reality is that the decision-makers who apportion
the bare-subsistence budget to development are in control, so despite the
good intentions and dedication of the development team to meet the
competitive needs and customer/user requirements and requests, they
continue to exist in the same borderline-survival mode.

One of the earliest and perennially-reappearing feature-enhancement
requests that I can remember was the ability to resize the text size of
menu commands, with the corollary request to be able to resize dialog boxes
and their contents. Over the years some smart folks figured out
operating-system tweaks and hacks that offered some help here, but the
difficulty of bringing the feature into the product indicates the flawed
architecture.

I can't remember how many years of requests it took until FM finally got a
multiple-Undo history feature. The mantra excuse from early-on was
"re-engineering to support that feature takes resources and time we do not
have. Sorry. Maybe next release. Thanks for your request." I built a kludgy
substitute with a keystroke-recording utility in the early days, just to
have a tool for my needs.

In 1994, I joined an independent Sun Computer reseller as their FrameMaker
trainer. Their customer names included nearly all the major high-tech
companies in Silicon Valley. (Oh, where have they gone? We turn our lonely
eyes...) They had just introduced an add-on that gave FM tables the ability
to perform like spreadsheets. It became successful, so they tried to
interest Frame Technology in licensing it. However, just then, Adobe bought
FM, and they turned it down, because "we have plans to build that into a
future release." That never happened. Maybe it was the scarcity of
resources? Hm... Some years later, I learned from the CEO of my company,
that he'd thought of it one day, and gave it to a couple of programmers who
built it in a few days. It worked, solved a user need, sold well, had
value, and then became a part of history, because they were expecting Adobe
to make it and pre-empt their opportunity.

What's really surprising and ennobling about FM, is how much the original
designers and developers got right about it - from the earliest releases,
FM reliably did so much of what enterprise-scale technical authors needed.
What's disappointing has been how hard it's been to improve the process and
underlying engineering to efficiently evolve it.

​Thanks for inviting participation in the conversation. However, realize
that every time a user encounters a persistent sore spot in their workflow,
all the warm fuzzies and reassurances lose their value.​

​Again, just my opinions.
​


On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 1:09 PM, Stefan Gentz  wrote:

> Hi Peter,
>
>
>
> thanks for your honest feedback! Please allow me to answer a little bit
> more comprehensive (sorry, if it became a little bit long …)
>
>
>
> > There's always been the sense in replies to user requests, that users
> > who ask for product improvements and enhancements are whiners
> > who aren't satisfied with an already-great product.
>
>
>
> I cannot comment on the past as I joined Adobe just a little bit more than
> a year ago (and personally never made this experience), but I can say for
> sure that not a single one of my colleagues in the Adobe TechComm team as
> it is today has in any way an attitude like this. In the contrary. We are
> all very passionate about the product, actively listen to the users and
> take every feedback and suggestion very seriously. I know this sounds very
> much like marketing blah-blah, but that’s exactly how it is. Since I
> started at Adobe I had virtually hundreds of one on one conversations on
> conferences around the world actively collecting feedback, channeling it
> and bringing it into the system. A huge amount of this went into the 2017
> release.
>
>
>
> > The countless technical authors and communicators who have
>
> > used FrameMaker to create this priceless collection of information
>
> > deserve respect when they suggest and request improvements in
> > the product they rely upon daily and know intimately.
>
>
>
> Absolutely! I could not agree more on this. And you can be sure that
> everyone in the Adobe TechComm team has exactly this attitude and
> appreciation of the community. Again, I cannot comment on the past, but
> both the product management and myself listen very carefully to all the
> 

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Klaus Daube]

On 16 Mar 2017 at 23:40, Stefan Gentz wrote:

> But the feedback came in a very late phase and there was no time
> left to take this into consideration. 

Sorry Stefan, to dispute this: Maybe people just considered my early lamento 
(in the 
beta forum) on this subject loud enough to be recognised by Adobe and did not 
see an 
immediate requirement to blow into the same horn... But then as they 
discvovered the 
disadvantages of the November-look (as I call it) the needed to react.

Klaus Daube
~~
Klaus Daube Phone:  +41-44-381 37 77
Schäracher 11   Mail:   kl...@daube.ch
CH-8053 Zürich  Web:www.daube.ch


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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Lin Sims]

Good to know. Lots of us out here don't have those fancy new high-rez
screens yet, so we can't take advantage of the work you've done. Being able
to at least select the icon size would at least help!

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Stefan Gentz <ge...@adobe.com> wrote:

> Hi Lin,
>
>
>
> currently the size of the icons is based on the Windows display scaling
> and FrameMaker automatically selects one of the three sizes based on the
> system scaling.
>
>
>
> We are already discussing to make icon size a user-based preference.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> *Stefan Gentz*
>
> Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
>
> [image: Adobe] <http://www.adobe.com/>  [image: Adobe TCS Icon]
> <http://www.adobe.com/products/technicalcommunicationsuite.html>  [image:
> Adobe FrameMaker Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker.html>  
> [image:
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>
> Connect with us:
>
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> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/facebook-128-128px.jpg]
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> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/Forum-Chats.jpg] Adobe TCS
> User Forum
> <https://forums.adobe.com/community/technical_communications_suite>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lin Sims [mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, March 17, 2017 18:08
> *To:* Stefan Gentz <ge...@adobe.com>
> *Cc:* Frame Users <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and
> scaling to menu icons
>
>
>
> You said that there are 3 sizes available for the icons. So what I'm
> wondering is, is it possible to select a *preferred* size instead of the
> one served up by default for whatever your resolution is. It won't be
> color, but it'll be easier for those of us with eye issues to see.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Stefan Gentz <ge...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Lin,
>
>
>
> > OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to tell me, for which I
> apologize.
>
>
>
> No need to apologize J I appreciate the open discussion!
>
>
>
> > Let me see if I understand now.
>
> > Adobe had to put a lot of effort into redesigning the menu/toolbar icons
> so that
>
> > they'd work properly on high-resolution screens. It didn't have the
> resources to
>
> > create those icons in both color and the Adobe "unicolor" standard if it
> wanted
>
> > to add other features and to fix bugs, so it decided to go with the
> corporate
>
> > standard interface so that those resources could be applied to adding
> features
>
> > and fixing bugs.
>
>
>
> Exactly so. Plus the feedback from many users who didn’t want to have
> colored icons anymore and requested a design to be calmer and more in line
> with other Adobe products.
>
>
>
> > If coloring the icons turns out to be too much effort, is it possible to
> allow
>
> > users to choose to use icons from the larger sets rather than the ones
> that
>
> > would show up based on the screen resolution? Or would that just get
> weird?
>
>
>
> Not sure, if I understand what you mean with “from the larger sets” …
> There is no “larger set” of icons in FM 2017. And the colored icons from
> 2015 do not work anymore as they were based on an older technology and are
> not compatible with high-dpi screens.
>
>
>
> In theory it would probably be possible to make the icons “theme based”
> and allow users to create their own themes with their own icons. But … to
> provide a full theme, you would have to create a total of +600 icons and
> all of them in three sizes (a total of 1,836 icons, just counted them). Not
> sure, if there would be really a lot of users who would want to do that …
>
>
>
> We have an open discussion about colored icons internally. Yes, we did
> hear you! But we have a lot of things on the roadmap and want to tackle a
> 

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Stefan Gentz]

Hi Lin,

currently the size of the icons is based on the Windows display scaling and 
FrameMaker automatically selects one of the three sizes based on the system 
scaling.

We are already discussing to make icon size a user-based preference.


Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
[Adobe]<http://www.adobe.com/>  [Adobe TCS Icon] 
<http://www.adobe.com/products/technicalcommunicationsuite.html>   [Adobe 
FrameMaker Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker.html>   [Adobe 
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From: Lin Sims [mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 18:08
To: Stefan Gentz <ge...@adobe.com>
Cc: Frame Users <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

You said that there are 3 sizes available for the icons. So what I'm wondering 
is, is it possible to select a preferred size instead of the one served up by 
default for whatever your resolution is. It won't be color, but it'll be easier 
for those of us with eye issues to see.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Stefan Gentz 
<ge...@adobe.com<mailto:ge...@adobe.com>> wrote:
Hi Lin,

> OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to tell me, for which I 
> apologize.

No need to apologize ☺ I appreciate the open discussion!

> Let me see if I understand now.
> Adobe had to put a lot of effort into redesigning the menu/toolbar icons so 
> that
> they'd work properly on high-resolution screens. It didn't have the resources 
> to
> create those icons in both color and the Adobe "unicolor" standard if it 
> wanted
> to add other features and to fix bugs, so it decided to go with the corporate
> standard interface so that those resources could be applied to adding features
> and fixing bugs.

Exactly so. Plus the feedback from many users who didn’t want to have colored 
icons anymore and requested a design to be calmer and more in line with other 
Adobe products.

> If coloring the icons turns out to be too much effort, is it possible to allow
> users to choose to use icons from the larger sets rather than the ones that
> would show up based on the screen resolution? Or would that just get weird?

Not sure, if I understand what you mean with “from the larger sets” … There is 
no “larger set” of icons in FM 2017. And the colored icons from 2015 do not 
work anymore as they were based on an older technology and are not compatible 
with high-dpi screens.

In theory it would probably be possible to make the icons “theme based” and 
allow users to create their own themes with their own icons. But … to provide a 
full theme, you would have to create a total of +600 icons and all of them in 
three sizes (a total of 1,836 icons, just counted them). Not sure, if there 
would be really a lot of users who would want to do that …

We have an open discussion about colored icons internally. Yes, we did hear 
you! But we have a lot of things on the roadmap and want to tackle a lot of 
long time user requests and bugs. Some of the requests are very old (many of 
them requested in this forum as well), most of them are very valid and 
important for the majority of users, others are simply necessary to modernize 
FrameMaker, others are new and innovative features. So, honestly, we will have 
to balance, if we spend resources into bringing back colored icons, or changes 
requested here and the Adobe User Forum like a new PDF Engine, finally fixing 
CMYK, 64 bit support, updating Pantone libraries, more advanced search & 
replace functionalities … to call out just a few requests.


Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
[Adobe]<http://www.adobe.com/>  [Adobe TCS Icon] 
<http://www.adobe.com/products/technicalcommunicationsuite.html>   [Adobe 
FrameMaker Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker.html>   [Adobe 
RoboHelp Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/products/robohelp.html>   [

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Stefan Gentz]

red to make FrameMaker’s user interface technology fit 
for the future. Beside this a lot of ground work in the code was done to set 
the foundation for future developments.
Most of this is not visible to the end-user, but it was necessary ground work 
in the background that had to be done. In many aspects FrameMaker 2017 is a 
much more modern product today “under the hood” and in many aspects the 
foundation is set for the future. It might not be “visible”, but we had to do 
this and you can be sure, that we will continue to make FrameMaker the best 
tool for technical writers.

> Perhaps it's time, within Adobe, to give FM the world-class
> recognition its earned over the decades, give it the development
> budget it deserves, and retire the obsolete engineering model,
> as well as the obsolete lame excuse.

Oh yes! Believe me, everyone in the Adobe TechComm team would love to get a 
bigger budget. And we’re fighting for it everyday competing with other business 
units J

But to be realistic … just look at every normal company. I guess more or less 
all of you have made this experience: How big is the budget of the marketing 
department? And how small is the budget of the tech comm department? Right. And 
guess what? Adobe has excellent tools for creatives and marketing … and 
excellent tools for TechComm. I guess you get the idea J


Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
[Adobe]<http://www.adobe.com/>  [Adobe TCS Icon] 
<http://www.adobe.com/products/technicalcommunicationsuite.html>   [Adobe 
FrameMaker Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker.html>   [Adobe 
RoboHelp Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/products/robohelp.html>   [Adobe Captivate 
Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/products/captivate.html>   [Adobe Acrobat Icon] 
<http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat.html>
Connect with us:
[http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/facebook-128-128px.jpg] 
Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/adobetcs> | 
[http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/twitter.jpg]  
Twitter<https://twitter.com/adobetcs> | 
[http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/LinkedIn.jpg]  
LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/groups/2381149> | 
[http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/YouTube.jpg]  
YouTube<https://www.youtube.com/user/AdobeTCS> | 
[http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/Blog.jpg]  Our 
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From: knowhow...@gmail.com [mailto:knowhow...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Peter Gold
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 15:42
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 
<framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Cc: Stefan Gentz <ge...@adobe.com>; Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

​With all due respect, Stefan:

You're pointing out Adobe's longest-running lame excuse for denying development 
resources to FrameMaker. Other Adobe products adjusted to high-resolution 
screens long ago.

There's always been the sense in replies to user requests, that users who ask 
for product improvements and enhancements are whiners who aren't satisfied with 
an already-great product.

One of the fundamental issues that have crippled FM development, going back to 
the 1990s is it's original engineering architecture. Over the years, it's been 
patched in many truly genius ways, to be able to provide more and newer 
features. However, the more complicated the patchwork has become, the more 
difficult it has become to evolve.

When InDesign was introduced, one of its claims was that the engineering model 
- a core engine that hosts plug-in and add-on modules for 
independently-designed features- would make it simpler to maintain and evolve. 
Even with this more-advanced engineering concept and design, software 
development demands resources to move ahead in a timely way to remain 
competitive, and even to leap ahead of competitors. It's a hope; the reality is 
that product advancement is slow, demanding, and expensive.

Even with the Creative Suite engineering model - applications that share common 
user interface appearances, some common features and operations, and some 
underlying engineering - evolving the CS products remains demanding and 
difficult.

Over the years, ID's book-publishing features have gone from non-existent to 
nearly-equal to FM's book features. ID's electronic-publishing features have 
evolved greatly because of intense competition.

The point is that, even with a sufficient development budget, advancing ID's 
more-flexible engineering model, takes resources, and takes time.

Adobe's long-time resistance to re-engineering FM's underlying technology, so 
it can evolve more efficiently, is more than disappointing. Repeating 

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Lin Sims]

You said that there are 3 sizes available for the icons. So what I'm
wondering is, is it possible to select a *preferred* size instead of the
one served up by default for whatever your resolution is. It won't be
color, but it'll be easier for those of us with eye issues to see.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Stefan Gentz <ge...@adobe.com> wrote:

> Hi Lin,
>
>
>
> > OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to tell me, for which I
> apologize.
>
>
>
> No need to apologize J I appreciate the open discussion!
>
>
>
> > Let me see if I understand now.
>
> > Adobe had to put a lot of effort into redesigning the menu/toolbar icons
> so that
>
> > they'd work properly on high-resolution screens. It didn't have the
> resources to
>
> > create those icons in both color and the Adobe "unicolor" standard if it
> wanted
>
> > to add other features and to fix bugs, so it decided to go with the
> corporate
>
> > standard interface so that those resources could be applied to adding
> features
>
> > and fixing bugs.
>
>
>
> Exactly so. Plus the feedback from many users who didn’t want to have
> colored icons anymore and requested a design to be calmer and more in line
> with other Adobe products.
>
>
>
> > If coloring the icons turns out to be too much effort, is it possible to
> allow
>
> > users to choose to use icons from the larger sets rather than the ones
> that
>
> > would show up based on the screen resolution? Or would that just get
> weird?
>
>
>
> Not sure, if I understand what you mean with “from the larger sets” …
> There is no “larger set” of icons in FM 2017. And the colored icons from
> 2015 do not work anymore as they were based on an older technology and are
> not compatible with high-dpi screens.
>
>
>
> In theory it would probably be possible to make the icons “theme based”
> and allow users to create their own themes with their own icons. But … to
> provide a full theme, you would have to create a total of +600 icons and
> all of them in three sizes (a total of 1,836 icons, just counted them). Not
> sure, if there would be really a lot of users who would want to do that …
>
>
>
> We have an open discussion about colored icons internally. Yes, we did
> hear you! But we have a lot of things on the roadmap and want to tackle a
> lot of long time user requests and bugs. Some of the requests are very old
> (many of them requested in this forum as well), most of them are very valid
> and important for the majority of users, others are simply necessary to
> modernize FrameMaker, others are new and innovative features. So, honestly,
> we will have to balance, if we spend resources into bringing back colored
> icons, or changes requested here and the Adobe User Forum like a new PDF
> Engine, finally fixing CMYK, 64 bit support, updating Pantone libraries,
> more advanced search & replace functionalities … to call out just a few
> requests.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> *Stefan Gentz*
>
> Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
>
> [image: Adobe] <http://www.adobe.com/>  [image: Adobe TCS Icon]
> <http://www.adobe.com/products/technicalcommunicationsuite.html>  [image:
> Adobe FrameMaker Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker.html>  
> [image:
> Adobe RoboHelp Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/products/robohelp.html>  [image:
> Adobe Captivate Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/products/captivate.html>  [image:
> Adobe Acrobat Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat.html>
>
> Connect with us:
>
> [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/facebook-128-128px.jpg]
> Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/adobetcs> | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/twitter.jpg] Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/adobetcs> | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/LinkedIn.jpg] LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/groups/2381149> | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/YouTube.jpg] YouTube
> <https://www.youtube.com/user/AdobeTCS> | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/Blog.jpg] Our Blog
> <http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/> | [image:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/Forum-Chats.jpg] Adobe TCS
> User Forum
> <https://forums.adobe.com/community/technical_communications_suite>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lin Sims [mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, March 17, 2017 14:05
> *To:* Stefan Gentz <ge...@adobe.com>; Frame Users <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and
> scaling to

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Stefan Gentz]

Hi Lin,

> OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to tell me, for which I 
> apologize.

No need to apologize J I appreciate the open discussion!

> Let me see if I understand now.
> Adobe had to put a lot of effort into redesigning the menu/toolbar icons so 
> that
> they'd work properly on high-resolution screens. It didn't have the resources 
> to
> create those icons in both color and the Adobe "unicolor" standard if it 
> wanted
> to add other features and to fix bugs, so it decided to go with the corporate
> standard interface so that those resources could be applied to adding features
> and fixing bugs.

Exactly so. Plus the feedback from many users who didn’t want to have colored 
icons anymore and requested a design to be calmer and more in line with other 
Adobe products.

> If coloring the icons turns out to be too much effort, is it possible to allow
> users to choose to use icons from the larger sets rather than the ones that
> would show up based on the screen resolution? Or would that just get weird?

Not sure, if I understand what you mean with “from the larger sets” … There is 
no “larger set” of icons in FM 2017. And the colored icons from 2015 do not 
work anymore as they were based on an older technology and are not compatible 
with high-dpi screens.

In theory it would probably be possible to make the icons “theme based” and 
allow users to create their own themes with their own icons. But … to provide a 
full theme, you would have to create a total of +600 icons and all of them in 
three sizes (a total of 1,836 icons, just counted them). Not sure, if there 
would be really a lot of users who would want to do that …

We have an open discussion about colored icons internally. Yes, we did hear 
you! But we have a lot of things on the roadmap and want to tackle a lot of 
long time user requests and bugs. Some of the requests are very old (many of 
them requested in this forum as well), most of them are very valid and 
important for the majority of users, others are simply necessary to modernize 
FrameMaker, others are new and innovative features. So, honestly, we will have 
to balance, if we spend resources into bringing back colored icons, or changes 
requested here and the Adobe User Forum like a new PDF Engine, finally fixing 
CMYK, 64 bit support, updating Pantone libraries, more advanced search & 
replace functionalities … to call out just a few requests.


Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Adobe Worldwide TechComm Evangelist
[Adobe]<http://www.adobe.com/>  [Adobe TCS Icon] 
<http://www.adobe.com/products/technicalcommunicationsuite.html>   [Adobe 
FrameMaker Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker.html>   [Adobe 
RoboHelp Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/products/robohelp.html>   [Adobe Captivate 
Icon] <http://www.adobe.com/products/captivate.html>   [Adobe Acrobat Icon] 
<http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat.html>
Connect with us:
[http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/facebook-128-128px.jpg] 
Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/adobetcs> | 
[http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/twitter.jpg]  
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LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/groups/2381149> | 
[http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/YouTube.jpg]  
YouTube<https://www.youtube.com/user/AdobeTCS> | 
[http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/Blog.jpg]  Our 
Blog<http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/> | 
[http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/files/2015/12/Forum-Chats.jpg]  Adobe TCS User 
Forum<https://forums.adobe.com/community/technical_communications_suite>


From: Lin Sims [mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 14:05
To: Stefan Gentz <ge...@adobe.com>; Frame Users <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to tell me, for which I 
apologize.
Let me see if I understand now.
Adobe had to put a lot of effort into redesigning the menu/toolbar icons so 
that they'd work properly on high-resolution screens. It didn't have the 
resources to create those icons in both color and the Adobe "unicolor" standard 
if it wanted to add other features and to fix bugs, so it decided to go with 
the corporate standard interface so that those resources could be applied to 
adding features and fixing bugs.
Do I have it now?
If so, I'm going to have to heave a heavy sigh of disappointment, because I 
can't really argue with the decision. I'd put bug fixing at the top of the list 
of priorities myself. I'm just sorry I don't currently have the opportunity to 
take advantage of the high resolution icons. (My home laptop is 6 years old, 
but I got a top of the line gaming rig so it isn't practical or necessary to 
replace it yet

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Frank Stearns]

There's perhaps an easy solution to this that as far as I know has not 
been mentioned.


Adobe could take a lesson from Avid's "Protools" product, arguably 
the recording industry standard for high-end, high-track count audio 
recording and mixing (and these days you can even toss in video 
clips).


There is a HUGE amount of information presented on the Protools 
desktop, much of it real-time. To run it well takes a minimum of two 
large-format monitors (I use three). Waveforms, channel strips, 
processing plug-ins, input/output matrices, level meters, et al -- 
lots of stuff to look at, and much of it in motion.


So, of course, color is an important element in helping the user 
manage all these visual elements and not create chaos. (They've done a 
masterful job by the way; you're not even aware how good it is or just 
how much information you can take in until you're forced to use some 
other tool that's not as good.)


But here's the brilliant addition that came in a few years ago. The 
color control panel (where the user can assign colors to various 
things) now includes variable brightness and saturation controls. You 
can make color items cartoonishly saturated, or take them all the way 
down to monochrome -- and **every point between**.


This could likely be done with the FM icons and thus please everybody.

And, I'd even suggest an enhancement that I wish Avid would look into. 
Give us the ability to create "color groups" within the UI (rather 
than just one overall group). Then, to each group, let us assign 
various screen elements or groups of elements as we please so that we 
can control the visuals of each group independently of other visual 
groups.


Within the panel for each group might be color assignment options, but 
most importantly would be those variable saturation and brightness 
controls. We could set what we want for the entire thing. Want dim 
icons but bright pods? Fine. Want the opposite? That's fine too. Want 
the whole thing bright or dim, saturated or sepia? You got it.


Clean, simple, and extremely user-eye friendly.

Frank Stearns

Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
*** IXGEN 7-10 for FrameMaker 10-15 HERE! ***
fra...@fsatools.com  1-435-275-8981  fsatools.com
___

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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Peter Gold]

​With all due respect, Stefan:

You're pointing out Adobe's longest-running lame excuse for denying
development resources to FrameMaker. Other Adobe products adjusted to
high-resolution screens long ago.

There's always been the sense in replies to user requests, that users who
ask for product improvements and enhancements are whiners who aren't
satisfied with an already-great product.

One of the fundamental issues that have crippled FM development, going back
to the 1990s is it's original engineering architecture. Over the years,
it's been patched in many truly genius ways, to be able to provide more and
newer features. However, the more complicated the patchwork has become, the
more difficult it has become to evolve.

When InDesign was introduced, one of its claims was that the engineering
model - a core engine that hosts plug-in and add-on modules for
independently-designed features- would make it simpler to maintain and
evolve. Even with this more-advanced engineering concept and design,
software development demands resources to move ahead in a timely way to
remain competitive, and even to leap ahead of competitors. It's a hope; the
reality is that product advancement is slow, demanding, and expensive.

Even with the Creative Suite engineering model - applications that share
common user interface appearances, some common features and operations, and
some underlying engineering - evolving the CS products remains demanding
and difficult.

Over the years, ID's book-publishing features have gone from non-existent
to nearly-equal to FM's book features. ID's electronic-publishing features
have evolved greatly because of intense competition.

The point is that, even with a sufficient development budget, advancing
ID's more-flexible engineering model, takes resources, and takes time.

Adobe's long-time resistance to re-engineering FM's underlying technology,
so it can evolve more efficiently, is more than disappointing. Repeating
the same old "we don't have the resources to honor these requests" really
means "we don't have the will to invest any more than the minimum in
development." It really means "we really don't believe in the product.
We're amazed that it's survived this long. We're willing to keep it alive
during its expected decline."

I participated in FrameMaker, InDesign, and Acrobat pre-release programs
for many years. These industry-leading tools have helped form and change
the technical-communications and publishing industries.

Early-on, before Adobe bought Frame Technology, FrameMaker running on UNIX,
was adopted by CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research, for
their documentation. These are the folks whose work led to the discovery of
the Higgs Boson, one of the universe's fundamental particles. Over the
decades, thousands of world-class corporations, research and educational
institutions, and governmentally-regulated industries have relied on
FrameMaker for creating and maintaining the information repositories they
develop and exchange across the world community.

The countless technical authors and communicators who have used FrameMaker
to create this priceless collection of information deserve respect when
they suggest and request improvements in the product they rely upon daily
and know intimately.

Perhaps it's time, within Adobe, to give FM the world-class recognition its
earned over the decades, give it the development budget it deserves, and
retire the obsolete engineering model, as well as the obsolete lame excuse.

One reality to consider is that, if there are no compelling features in the
new release, Adobe's making a good case for customers not to upgrade. Why
pay more and get less? It's a downward spiral: Lost sales mean less revenue
which means less money for future development.

​Just my opinion.​

Lin Sims 
8:04 AM (39 minutes ago)
to Stefan, Frame
OK, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to tell me, for which I
apologize.

Let me see if I understand now.

Adobe had to put a lot of effort into redesigning the menu/toolbar icons so
that they'd work properly on high-resolution screens. It didn't have the
resources to create those icons in both color and the Adobe "unicolor"
standard if it wanted to add other features and to fix bugs, so it decided
to go with the corporate standard interface so that those resources could
be applied to adding features and fixing bugs.

Do I have it now?

If so, I'm going to have to heave a heavy sigh of disappointment, because I
can't really argue with the decision. I'd put bug fixing at the top of the
list of priorities myself. I'm just sorry I don't currently have the
opportunity to take advantage of the high resolution icons. (My home laptop
is 6 years old, but I got a top of the line gaming rig so it isn't
practical or necessary to replace it yet.)

If coloring the icons turns out to be too much effort, is it possible to
allow users to choose to use icons from the larger sets rather than the
ones that 

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Lin Sims]

e4070cd4008d46ccc4dd9%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253072122019499=
> 7apqbhxBpwKLO4AhwhCVFX8RqlS367wb0%2FoISJB37gU%3D=0
>
> techcomm/files/2015/12/twitter.jpg]  Twitter<https://na01.
> safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%
> 2Ftwitter.com%2Fadobetcs=02%7C01%7C%7Ca7c76f2bca1e4070cd4008d46ccc
> 4dd9%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%
> 7C636253072122019499=rzmAogcYUnEr%2FRsufKDzP8mp0CiliPX9cH%
> 2FT0Ux8mWw%3D=0>
>
> | [https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.adobe.com%2Ftechcomm%2Ffiles%2F2015%
> 2F12%2FLinkedIn.jpg=02%7C01%7C%7Ca7c76f2bca1e4070cd4008d46ccc4dd9%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253072122019499=
> txdWCAOBc8FJxizF8jKPo3rii422KTB7MfJQYwTN7Qc%3D=0]  LinkedIn<
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fgroups%2F2381149=02%7C01%7C%
> 7Ca7c76f2bca1e4070cd4008d46ccc4dd9%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253072122019499=HHsNly5m5rWV5cm2Hme%
> 2FcHrThBNhEX%2Fdf33Avbu0zRA%3D=0> | [https://na01.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.adobe.com%
> 2F=02%7C01%7C%7Ca7c76f2bca1e4070cd4008d46ccc4dd9%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253072122019499=
> 7apqbhxBpwKLO4AhwhCVFX8RqlS367wb0%2FoISJB37gU%3D=0
>
> techcomm/files/2015/12/YouTube.jpg]  YouTube<https://na01.
> safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> youtube=02%7C01%7C%7Ca7c76f2bca1e4070cd4008d46ccc4dd9%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253072122019499=
> VTTEt3QJzugqQmmotWGrbrJcIBAvZVmac32YzcMCPfo%3D=0.
>
> com/user/AdobeTCS> | [https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.adobe.com%2Ftechcomm%2Ffiles%2F2015%
> 2F12%2FBlog=02%7C01%7C%7Ca7c76f2bca1e4070cd4008d46ccc4dd9%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253072122019499=
> w9QClc1m6kRuXRSiM0P2ISYTHn1tQXGvvDyBO7Tnc%2F4%3D=0.
>
> jpg] Our Blog<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.adobe.com%2Ftechcomm%2F=02%7C01%7C%
> 7Ca7c76f2bca1e4070cd4008d46ccc4dd9%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253072122019499=ub%2FURPQlF19ndX0UE0BapquB56Hcmqt
> JBEbE1Af9Bq8%3D=0>  | [
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.adobe.com%2Ftechcomm%2Ffiles%2F2015%
> 2F12%2FForum-Chats.jpg=02%7C01%7C%7Ca7c76f2bca1e4070cd4008d46ccc4dd9%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253072122019499=
> e1KGZujcn5PlOTbHXjmNPa6J9HgqG7kCyMDj32jhmcw%3D=0]  Adobe TCS
>
> User Forum<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fforums.adobe.com%2Fcommunity%2Ftechnical_=02%7C01%7C%
> 7Ca7c76f2bca1e4070cd4008d46ccc4dd9%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253072122019499=gO0sRjuPkQeOMDHoNucRlgsfc0bZBU
> YLmTh7UrM3t7A%3D=0
>
> communications_suite>
>
>
>
> On 16 Mar 2017, at 18:38, Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com<mailto:lj
>
> sims...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> For those who might be curious, we're up to 32 votes!
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com<mailto:lj
>
> sims...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> And pretty soon they may think you've started a movement.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig, Alison <acr...@bkultrasound.com<
>
> mailto:acr...@bkultrasound.com <acr...@bkultrasound.com>>>
>
> wrote:
>
>
> I voted for both of them.
>
>
> Very timely as well - having just had an ophthalmology appointment this
>
> morning for my old and tired eyes. ;-)))
>
>
> Alison
>
>
>
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=
>
> bkultrasound@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bkultras
>
> ound@lists.frameusers.com>] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
>
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 6:37 AM
>
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
>
> to menu icons
>
>
> Direct link to Dave Stamm's request is:
>
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
>
> https%3A%2F%2Ftracker.adobe.com%2F%23%2Fview%2FFRMAKER-
>
> 2451=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
>
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403=
>
> JiIxwuDihAvXnnzyq0LGNwxcEIpmC6LPkZz%2BAwOEhoY%3D=0
>
>
> (Dave, your link takes us to the fill-in form, not to your specific
>
> request.)
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Stamm, David <david.st...@gd-ms.com
>
> <mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com <david.st...@gd-ms.com>>
>
> <mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com <david.st

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Bernard Aschwanden (Publishing Smarter)]

My 2 cents. I think that the new ones took a rework approach that needed pretty 
major work. I tried to find them like in the past, but they have been 
redesigned. I think it's perhaps new images, and vector based. So it's not as 
easy as I first thought it would be. However, color plays a MAJOR role in human 
recognition of content. While I do love the larger and auto-adjusting icons (as 
I go from my 3000/2000 resolution to 1280/768 and it just is "right" is great) 
I also would love to see color.

I can also say that I was a pain in the butt to the Adobe team on the FM2017 
stuff with massive wish list requests, bugs founds, and questions posed, so 
it's nice that they DID manage to get as much in as they could. Plus, we've 
given them something for the next release.

Lastly, even with UI and UX and other experts at Adobe poking at it, I'd like 
to point out that the majority of the FM user base is likely +30 in age, not 
under 30. That may mean that audience analysis done for tools like PS, AI, and 
others are not like those for FM. Also, Acrobat does have color icons in it and 
they are amongst the few that I use.

Off to work (late night conf call for me). Good discussions all,

Bernard



-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+bernard=publishingsmarter@lists.frameusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:27 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

FrameMaker 2015 provided the OPTION to use either unicolor or colored icons in 
the menu bar, and also to scale the menu bar icons larger. FrameMaker
2017 doesn't have the option available anymore.

I don't understand why providing that as an OPTION was taken away, since that 
allowed those who like color or larger scale icons in the menu/toolbars to have 
them, and those who prefer to have them look like the interface in other Adobe 
products to have that.

I don't think anyone here is asking that the menu/toolbar interface be all one 
way or all the other. We're asking that both ways be available, as they were in 
FM2015, so that we can make a choice regarding how we prefer them.


On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Stefan Gentz <ge...@adobe.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> we heard you!
>
> Thanks for all your feedback on the new icon design. We do appreciate 
> your feedback.
>
> As you might imagine, we did not take the decision to go for a 
> uni-color design easy and a lot of considerations and user feedback went into 
> this.
> And yes, there was a diverse feedback from users: Some users liked the 
> colored icons (for reasons many if you mentioned here as well) and 
> strongly encouraged us to keep the colored icons, others preferred a 
> uni-color design as they are used to it from other Adobe Apps and 
> because they preferred a more "calm", less "distracting" working 
> environment and strongly encouraged us to go for this. Also there is a 
> wide range of users worldwide throughout many countries and cultures 
> and age groups with a wide range of expectations.
>
> And no, we did not "dismiss and belittled" feedback in the prerelease 
> phase. But the feedback came in a very late phase and there was no 
> time left to take this into consideration. There are hundreds of icons 
> and the majority of them are in multiple sites for the new high-dpi 
> screen compatibility. It's nothing that can be done "overnight".
>
> Again, we did hear you and understand that there is a wide range of 
> personal preferences and tastes. We will discuss this over the next 
> weeks internally and explore the possibilities to satisfy the wishes 
> from both user groups – those who like the colored icons and those who 
> prefer uni-colored icons.
>
> By the way, my personal take on this is: I like the uni-color design 
> and prefer it over the colored icons. I like it, because it's more 
> calm and allows me to focus more on the content and get less 
> distracted by a big bunch of "candy-colored" icons (yes, Matt Sullivan, I 
> know … ;-)).
> I'm just used to this style as I also work every day in PhotoShop, 
> Illustrator and InDesign as well. And I'm used to it, as many modern 
> apps, tools, systems all have this kind of design. I just like it and 
> it's for sure a personal preference.
> By the way, I work with FrameMaker intensively for more than 20 years 
> and have pushed out several million of pages and went through all the 
> UI changes over the last ten product generations. And personally I 
> think the new FM 2017 UI is the best FrameMaker ever had – in terms of 
> logical enhancements and restructuring, terminology enhancements and 
> consistency, user-friendliness and productivity enhanceme

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Stefan Gentz]

2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253072122019499=e1KGZujcn5PlOTbHXjmNPa6J9HgqG7kCyMDj32jhmcw%3D=0]
  Adobe TCS
User 
Forum<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.adobe.com%2Fcommunity%2Ftechnical_=02%7C01%7C%7Ca7c76f2bca1e4070cd4008d46ccc4dd9%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253072122019499=gO0sRjuPkQeOMDHoNucRlgsfc0bZBUYLmTh7UrM3t7A%3D=0
communications_suite>


On 16 Mar 2017, at 18:38, Lin Sims 
<ljsims...@gmail.com<mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com><mailto:lj
sims...@gmail.com<mailto:sims...@gmail.com>>> wrote:

For those who might be curious, we're up to 32 votes!

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Lin Sims 
<ljsims...@gmail.com<mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com><mailto:lj
sims...@gmail.com<mailto:sims...@gmail.com>>> wrote:

And pretty soon they may think you've started a movement.

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig, Alison 
<acr...@bkultrasound.com<mailto:acr...@bkultrasound.com><
mailto:acr...@bkultrasound.com>>
wrote:

I voted for both of them.

Very timely as well - having just had an ophthalmology appointment this
morning for my old and tired eyes. ;-)))

Alison


From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=
bkultrasound....@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bkultrasound....@lists.frameusers.com><mailto:bkultras
ound@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:ound@lists.frameusers.com>>] On Behalf 
Of Lin Sims
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 6:37 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
to menu icons

Direct link to Dave Stamm's request is:

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
https%3A%2F%2Ftracker.adobe.com<http://2Ftracker.adobe.com>%2F%23%2Fview%2FFRMAKER-
2451=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403=
JiIxwuDihAvXnnzyq0LGNwxcEIpmC6LPkZz%2BAwOEhoY%3D=0

(Dave, your link takes us to the fill-in form, not to your specific
request.)

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Stamm, David 
<david.st...@gd-ms.com<mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com>
<mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com>
<mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com%3e> wrote:

2017-03-10-05T14:00Z

Well, disappointingly but not surprisingly, my feature request did not
survive the transition to Adobe's new setup.

So, I just submitted it again.

At https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
https%3A%2F%2Ftracker.adobe.com<http://2Ftracker.adobe.com>%2F%23%2Fadd_feature=02%7C01%7C%
7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403=1%2BXyjsi8w8rLFHHB%
2B1hCMWokuG7GjjWC7fZ7NtmSMLQ%3D=0 , the "Bug Id" is
FRMAKER-2451.

Thank you for your support.

Regards,
Dave Stamm
Information Engineer

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com<http://gd-ms.com><http://gd-ms.
com>@lists.
frameusers.com<http://frameusers.com><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fframeusers.com=02%7C01%7C%7Ca7c76f2bca1e4070cd4008d46ccc4dd9%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253072122019499=qOTLmcx065SwupV9edKesBomn5UNAJgGSrfui3Dtqxk%3D=0>]
 On Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 15:33
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and
scaling
to menu icons

Send me the link, Dave, I'll vote for yours, too!

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Stamm, David 
<david.st...@gd-ms.com<mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com>
<mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com>
<mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com%3e>
wrote:

2017-03-09-04T20:15Z

I, too, voted in favor of your request. I also pointed out that your
request is analogous to my request to enlarge the typeface in the
dialog box for index entries. Good luck.

Dave Stamm
Information Engineer

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com<http://gd-ms.com><http://gd-ms.
com>@lists.
frameusers.com<http://frameusers.com><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fframeusers.com=02%7C01%7C%7Ca7c76f2bca1e4070cd4008d46ccc4dd9%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636253072122019499=qOTLmcx065SwupV9edKesBomn5UNAJgGSrfui3Dtqxk%3D=0>]
 On Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 13:14
To: Frame Users
Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
to menu icons

I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most
displeased to see that the menu icons had been returned to the
"corporate standard" of tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to
distinguish. This is causing me some eye strain, and I'm not at all
happy about it.

I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at
least some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the
request.

I

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Lin Sims]

te>
>
>
> On 16 Mar 2017, at 18:38, Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com<mailto:lj
> sims...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> For those who might be curious, we're up to 32 votes!
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com<mailto:lj
> sims...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> And pretty soon they may think you've started a movement.
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig, Alison <acr...@bkultrasound.com<
> mailto:acr...@bkultrasound.com>>
> wrote:
>
> I voted for both of them.
>
> Very timely as well - having just had an ophthalmology appointment this
> morning for my old and tired eyes. ;-)))
>
> Alison
>
>
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=
> bkultrasound@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bkultras
> ound@lists.frameusers.com>] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 6:37 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
> to menu icons
>
> Direct link to Dave Stamm's request is:
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Ftracker.adobe.com%2F%23%2Fview%2FFRMAKER-
> 2451=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403=
> JiIxwuDihAvXnnzyq0LGNwxcEIpmC6LPkZz%2BAwOEhoY%3D=0
>
> (Dave, your link takes us to the fill-in form, not to your specific
> request.)
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Stamm, David <david.st...@gd-ms.com
> <mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com>
> <mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com%3e> wrote:
>
> 2017-03-10-05T14:00Z
>
> Well, disappointingly but not surprisingly, my feature request did not
> survive the transition to Adobe's new setup.
>
> So, I just submitted it again.
>
> At https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Ftracker.adobe.com%2F%23%2Fadd_feature=02%7C01%7C%
> 7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403=1%2BXyjsi8w8rLFHHB%
> 2B1hCMWokuG7GjjWC7fZ7NtmSMLQ%3D=0 , the "Bug Id" is
> FRMAKER-2451.
>
> Thank you for your support.
>
> Regards,
> Dave Stamm
> Information Engineer
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com<http://gd-ms.
> com>@lists.
> frameusers.com<http://frameusers.com>] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 15:33
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and
> scaling
> to menu icons
>
> Send me the link, Dave, I'll vote for yours, too!
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Stamm, David <david.st...@gd-ms.com
> <mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com>
> <mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com%3e>
> wrote:
>
> 2017-03-09-04T20:15Z
>
> I, too, voted in favor of your request. I also pointed out that your
> request is analogous to my request to enlarge the typeface in the
> dialog box for index entries. Good luck.
>
> Dave Stamm
> Information Engineer
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com<http://gd-ms.
> com>@lists.
> frameusers.com<http://frameusers.com>] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 13:14
> To: Frame Users
> Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
> to menu icons
>
> I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most
> displeased to see that the menu icons had been returned to the
> "corporate standard" of tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to
> distinguish. This is causing me some eye strain, and I'm not at all
> happy about it.
>
> I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at
> least some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the
> request.
>
> I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this
> subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let
> Adobe know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time.
> Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't listen to the testers who
> complained. It seems like poor customer service to me.
>
> Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Ftracker.adobe.com%2F%23%2Fview%2FFRMAKER-
> 2449=02%7C01%7C%7Cb10d4d8d752648c5788a08d46c934ae6%
> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636252827264834403=
> a8Xv2CwRhnL36Hxpyl5ls6yRBLcLFMi6L0zVOJtjlrM%3D=0
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
>
> This

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Stefan Gentz]

Hi all,

we heard you!

Thanks for all your feedback on the new icon design. We do appreciate your 
feedback.

As you might imagine, we did not take the decision to go for a uni-color design 
easy and a lot of considerations and user feedback went into this. And yes, 
there was a diverse feedback from users: Some users liked the colored icons 
(for reasons many if you mentioned here as well) and strongly encouraged us to 
keep the colored icons, others preferred a uni-color design as they are used to 
it from other Adobe Apps and because they preferred a more "calm", less 
"distracting" working environment and strongly encouraged us to go for this. 
Also there is a wide range of users worldwide throughout many countries and 
cultures and age groups with a wide range of expectations.

And no, we did not "dismiss and belittled" feedback in the prerelease phase. 
But the feedback came in a very late phase and there was no time left to take 
this into consideration. There are hundreds of icons and the majority of them 
are in multiple sites for the new high-dpi screen compatibility. It's nothing 
that can be done "overnight".

Again, we did hear you and understand that there is a wide range of personal 
preferences and tastes. We will discuss this over the next weeks internally and 
explore the possibilities to satisfy the wishes from both user groups – those 
who like the colored icons and those who prefer uni-colored icons.

By the way, my personal take on this is: I like the uni-color design and prefer 
it over the colored icons. I like it, because it's more calm and allows me to 
focus more on the content and get less distracted by a big bunch of 
"candy-colored" icons (yes, Matt Sullivan, I know … ;-)).
I'm just used to this style as I also work every day in PhotoShop, Illustrator 
and InDesign as well. And I'm used to it, as many modern apps, tools, systems 
all have this kind of design. I just like it and it's for sure a personal 
preference.
By the way, I work with FrameMaker intensively for more than 20 years and have 
pushed out several million of pages and went through all the UI changes over 
the last ten product generations. And personally I think the new FM 2017 UI is 
the best FrameMaker ever had – in terms of logical enhancements and 
restructuring, terminology enhancements and consistency, user-friendliness and 
productivity enhancements and technical advancements (I'm running FM on a 
modern high-dpi screen and LOVE the crystal clear, sharp UI and text editing).
But again, that's just my personal 2 cents as a hardcore and long-term user ;-)



Regards,
Stefan Gentz
Global Evangelist, Technical Communication
[Adobe]<http://www.adobe.com/>  [Adobe TCS Icon] 
<http://www.adobe.com/products/technicalcommunicationsuite.html>   [Adobe 
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On 16 Mar 2017, at 18:38, Lin Sims 
<ljsims...@gmail.com<mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com>> wrote:

For those who might be curious, we're up to 32 votes!

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Lin Sims 
<ljsims...@gmail.com<mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com>> wrote:

And pretty soon they may think you've started a movement.

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig, Alison 
<acr...@bkultrasound.com<mailto:acr...@bkultrasound.com>>
wrote:

I voted for both of them.

Very timely as well - having just had an ophthalmology appointment this
morning for my old and tired eyes. ;-)))

Alison


From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=
bkultrasound@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:bkultrasound....@lists.frameusers.com>]
 On Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 6:37 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
to menu icons

Direct link to Dave Stamm's request is:

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Lin Sims]

For those who might be curious, we're up to 32 votes!

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com> wrote:

> And pretty soon they may think you've started a movement.
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig, Alison <acr...@bkultrasound.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I voted for both of them.
>>
>> Very timely as well - having just had an ophthalmology appointment this
>> morning for my old and tired eyes. ;-)))
>>
>> Alison
>>
>>
>> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=
>> bkultrasound@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
>> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 6:37 AM
>> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
>> Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
>> to menu icons
>>
>> Direct link to Dave Stamm's request is:
>>
>> https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2451
>>
>> (Dave, your link takes us to the fill-in form, not to your specific
>> request.)
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Stamm, David <david.st...@gd-ms.com
>> ><mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com%3e> wrote:
>>
>> > 2017-03-10-05T14:00Z
>> >
>> > Well, disappointingly but not surprisingly, my feature request did not
>> > survive the transition to Adobe's new setup.
>> >
>> > So, I just submitted it again.
>> >
>> > At https://tracker.adobe.com/#/add_feature , the "Bug Id" is
>> FRMAKER-2451.
>> >
>> > Thank you for your support.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Dave Stamm
>> > Information Engineer
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com@lists.
>> > frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
>> > Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 15:33
>> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
>> > Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and
>> scaling
>> > to menu icons
>> >
>> > Send me the link, Dave, I'll vote for yours, too!
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Stamm, David <david.st...@gd-ms.com
>> ><mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com%3e>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > 2017-03-09-04T20:15Z
>> > >
>> > > I, too, voted in favor of your request. I also pointed out that your
>> > > request is analogous to my request to enlarge the typeface in the
>> > > dialog box for index entries. Good luck.
>> > >
>> > > Dave Stamm
>> > > Information Engineer
>> > >
>> > > -Original Message-
>> > > From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com@lists.
>> > > frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
>> > > Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 13:14
>> > > To: Frame Users
>> > > Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
>> > > to menu icons
>> > >
>> > > I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most
>> > > displeased to see that the menu icons had been returned to the
>> > > "corporate standard" of tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to
>> > > distinguish. This is causing me some eye strain, and I'm not at all
>> > happy about it.
>> > >
>> > > I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at
>> > > least some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the
>> > > request.
>> > >
>> > > I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this
>> > > subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let
>> > > Adobe know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time.
>> > > Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't listen to the testers who
>> > > complained. It seems like poor customer service to me.
>> > >
>> > > Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
>> > >
>> > > https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Lin Sims
>> > > ___
>> > >
>> > > This message is from the Framers mailing list
>> > >
>> > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com> framers@lists.frameusers.com> Visit the list's
>> > > homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
>> > > http://w

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Lin Sims]

And pretty soon they may think you've started a movement.

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig, Alison <acr...@bkultrasound.com>
wrote:

> I voted for both of them.
>
> Very timely as well - having just had an ophthalmology appointment this
> morning for my old and tired eyes. ;-)))
>
> Alison
>
>
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=bkultrasound.com@lists.
> frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 6:37 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
> to menu icons
>
> Direct link to Dave Stamm's request is:
>
> https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2451
>
> (Dave, your link takes us to the fill-in form, not to your specific
> request.)
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Stamm, David <david.st...@gd-ms.com><
> mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com%3e> wrote:
>
> > 2017-03-10-05T14:00Z
> >
> > Well, disappointingly but not surprisingly, my feature request did not
> > survive the transition to Adobe's new setup.
> >
> > So, I just submitted it again.
> >
> > At https://tracker.adobe.com/#/add_feature , the "Bug Id" is
> FRMAKER-2451.
> >
> > Thank you for your support.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave Stamm
> > Information Engineer
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com@lists.
> > frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> > Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 15:33
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
> > to menu icons
> >
> > Send me the link, Dave, I'll vote for yours, too!
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Stamm, David <david.st...@gd-ms.com><
> mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com%3e>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > 2017-03-09-04T20:15Z
> > >
> > > I, too, voted in favor of your request. I also pointed out that your
> > > request is analogous to my request to enlarge the typeface in the
> > > dialog box for index entries. Good luck.
> > >
> > > Dave Stamm
> > > Information Engineer
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com@lists.
> > > frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> > > Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 13:14
> > > To: Frame Users
> > > Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
> > > to menu icons
> > >
> > > I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most
> > > displeased to see that the menu icons had been returned to the
> > > "corporate standard" of tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to
> > > distinguish. This is causing me some eye strain, and I'm not at all
> > happy about it.
> > >
> > > I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at
> > > least some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the
> > > request.
> > >
> > > I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this
> > > subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let
> > > Adobe know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time.
> > > Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't listen to the testers who
> > > complained. It seems like poor customer service to me.
> > >
> > > Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
> > >
> > > https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
> > >
> > > --
> > > Lin Sims
> > > ___
> > >
> > > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> > >
> > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.
> frameusers.com> Visit the list's
> > > homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> > > listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com listad...@frameusers.com>
> > > ___
> > >
> > > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> > >
> > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.
> frameusers.com> Visit the list's
> 

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Craig, Alison]

I voted for both of them.

Very timely as well - having just had an ophthalmology appointment this morning 
for my old and tired eyes. ;-)))

Alison


From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=bkultrasound@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf 
Of Lin Sims
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 6:37 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

Direct link to Dave Stamm's request is:

https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2451

(Dave, your link takes us to the fill-in form, not to your specific
request.)

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Stamm, David 
<david.st...@gd-ms.com><mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com%3e> wrote:

> 2017-03-10-05T14:00Z
>
> Well, disappointingly but not surprisingly, my feature request did not
> survive the transition to Adobe's new setup.
>
> So, I just submitted it again.
>
> At https://tracker.adobe.com/#/add_feature , the "Bug Id" is FRMAKER-2451.
>
> Thank you for your support.
>
> Regards,
> Dave Stamm
> Information Engineer
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com@lists.
> frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 15:33
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
> to menu icons
>
> Send me the link, Dave, I'll vote for yours, too!
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Stamm, David 
> <david.st...@gd-ms.com><mailto:david.st...@gd-ms.com%3e>
> wrote:
>
> > 2017-03-09-04T20:15Z
> >
> > I, too, voted in favor of your request. I also pointed out that your
> > request is analogous to my request to enlarge the typeface in the
> > dialog box for index entries. Good luck.
> >
> > Dave Stamm
> > Information Engineer
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com@lists.
> > frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> > Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 13:14
> > To: Frame Users
> > Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
> > to menu icons
> >
> > I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most
> > displeased to see that the menu icons had been returned to the
> > "corporate standard" of tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to
> > distinguish. This is causing me some eye strain, and I'm not at all
> happy about it.
> >
> > I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at
> > least some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the
> > request.
> >
> > I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this
> > subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let
> > Adobe know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time.
> > Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't listen to the testers who
> > complained. It seems like poor customer service to me.
> >
> > Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
> >
> > https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
> >
> > --
> > Lin Sims
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to 
> > framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com> Visit the 
> > list's
> > homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> > listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to 
> > listad...@frameusers.com<mailto:listad...@frameusers.com>
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to 
> > framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com> Visit the 
> > list's
> > homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/ framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ Subscribe
> > and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> > listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to 
> > listad...@frameusers.com<mailto:listad...@frameusers.com>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to 
> framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com&

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Roman Banks]

Hi,
I voted too. Adobe should listen to the customer input.
Regards,Roman

On Sunday, March 12, 2017 10:55 AM, Shmuel Wolfson <shmue...@gmail.com> 
wrote:
 

 I voted too.


On 09-Mar-17 10:50 PM, Eichelberger, Mark (King of Prussia) wrote:
> I voted too.  I will admit that my 60 year old eyes get tired of this 
> interface.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> [mailto:framers-bounces+mark.eichelberger=fiserv@lists.frameusers.com] On 
> Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 3:46 PM
> To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.' 
> <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
> menu icons
>
> I will DEFINITELY vote for both, so that link Dave would be awesome. My aging 
> eyes simply cannot handle this interface for any respectable length of time.
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Owner/Principal
> Spectrum Writing, LLC
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com -Original Message-
> From: Framers
> [mailto:framers-bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com]
> On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 1:33 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
> menu icons
>
> Send me the link, Dave, I'll vote for yours, too!
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Stamm, David <david.st...@gd-ms.com> wrote:
>
>> 2017-03-09-04T20:15Z
>>
>> I, too, voted in favor of your request.  I also pointed out that your
>> request is analogous to my request to enlarge the typeface in the
>> dialog box for index entries.  Good luck.
>>
>> Dave Stamm
>> Information Engineer
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com@lists.
>> frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
>> Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 13:14
>> To: Frame Users
>> Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
>> to menu icons
>>
>> I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most
>> displeased to see that the menu icons had been returned to the
>> "corporate standard" of tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to
>> distinguish. This is causing me some eye strain, and I'm not at all
>> happy
> about it.
>> I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at
>> least some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the
>> request.
>>
>> I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this
>> subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let
>> Adobe know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time.
>> Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't listen to the testers who
>> complained. It seems like poor customer service to me.
>>
>> Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
>>
>> https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
>>
>> --
>> Lin Sims
>> ___
>>
>> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>>
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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Shmuel Wolfson]

I voted too.


On 09-Mar-17 10:50 PM, Eichelberger, Mark (King of Prussia) wrote:

I voted too.  I will admit that my 60 year old eyes get tired of this interface.

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+mark.eichelberger=fiserv@lists.frameusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 3:46 PM
To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.' 
<framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

I will DEFINITELY vote for both, so that link Dave would be awesome. My aging 
eyes simply cannot handle this interface for any respectable length of time.

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com -Original Message-
From: Framers
[mailto:framers-bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com]
On Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 1:33 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

Send me the link, Dave, I'll vote for yours, too!

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Stamm, David <david.st...@gd-ms.com> wrote:


2017-03-09-04T20:15Z

I, too, voted in favor of your request.  I also pointed out that your
request is analogous to my request to enlarge the typeface in the
dialog box for index entries.  Good luck.

Dave Stamm
Information Engineer

-Original Message-
From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com@lists.
frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 13:14
To: Frame Users
Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
to menu icons

I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most
displeased to see that the menu icons had been returned to the
"corporate standard" of tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to
distinguish. This is causing me some eye strain, and I'm not at all
happy

about it.

I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at
least some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the
request.

I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this
subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let
Adobe know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time.
Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't listen to the testers who
complained. It seems like poor customer service to me.

Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.

https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449

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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Lin Sims]

Direct link to Dave Stamm's request is:

https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2451

(Dave, your link takes us to the fill-in form, not to your specific
request.)

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Stamm, David <david.st...@gd-ms.com> wrote:

> 2017-03-10-05T14:00Z
>
> Well, disappointingly but not surprisingly, my feature request did not
> survive the transition to Adobe's new setup.
>
> So, I just submitted it again.
>
> At https://tracker.adobe.com/#/add_feature , the "Bug Id" is FRMAKER-2451.
>
> Thank you for your support.
>
> Regards,
> Dave Stamm
> Information Engineer
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com@lists.
> frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 15:33
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
> to menu icons
>
> Send me the link, Dave, I'll vote for yours, too!
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Stamm, David <david.st...@gd-ms.com>
> wrote:
>
> > 2017-03-09-04T20:15Z
> >
> > I, too, voted in favor of your request.  I also pointed out that your
> > request is analogous to my request to enlarge the typeface in the
> > dialog box for index entries.  Good luck.
> >
> > Dave Stamm
> > Information Engineer
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com@lists.
> > frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> > Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 13:14
> > To: Frame Users
> > Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
> > to menu icons
> >
> > I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most
> > displeased to see that the menu icons had been returned to the
> > "corporate standard" of tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to
> > distinguish. This is causing me some eye strain, and I'm not at all
> happy about it.
> >
> > I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at
> > least some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the
> > request.
> >
> > I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this
> > subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let
> > Adobe know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time.
> > Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't listen to the testers who
> > complained. It seems like poor customer service to me.
> >
> > Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
> >
> > https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
> >
> > --
> > Lin Sims
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
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> > homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
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> >
>
>
>
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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Stamm, David]

2017-03-10-05T14:00Z

Well, disappointingly but not surprisingly, my feature request did not survive 
the transition to Adobe's new setup.

So, I just submitted it again.

At https://tracker.adobe.com/#/add_feature , the "Bug Id" is FRMAKER-2451.

Thank you for your support.

Regards,
Dave Stamm
Information Engineer

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf 
Of Lin Sims
Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 15:33
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

Send me the link, Dave, I'll vote for yours, too!

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Stamm, David <david.st...@gd-ms.com> wrote:

> 2017-03-09-04T20:15Z
>
> I, too, voted in favor of your request.  I also pointed out that your 
> request is analogous to my request to enlarge the typeface in the 
> dialog box for index entries.  Good luck.
>
> Dave Stamm
> Information Engineer
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com@lists.
> frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 13:14
> To: Frame Users
> Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling 
> to menu icons
>
> I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most 
> displeased to see that the menu icons had been returned to the 
> "corporate standard" of tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to 
> distinguish. This is causing me some eye strain, and I'm not at all happy 
> about it.
>
> I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at 
> least some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the 
> request.
>
> I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this 
> subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let 
> Adobe know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time. 
> Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't listen to the testers who 
> complained. It seems like poor customer service to me.
>
> Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
>
> https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's 
> homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/ 
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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Klaus Daube]

On 9 Mar 2017 at 13:13, Lin Sims wrote:

> Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
> https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449

I have voted and added a comment. Unfortunately (to say the least) comments are 
not 
visible when looking into the tracker - even the own ones! My comment was 
something 
like this:

I cite Shakespeare from Julius Cesar: I thrice presented him a kingly crown, 
and he 
did thrice refuse!
Colour is a fourth dimension in our world.
I am advocating for coloured icons since FM-9 and was successful for FM-12. But 
now, 
Adobe again ignores the kingly crown of an interface.
I have already put this issue up in 
https://forums.adobeprerelease.com/framemaker2017/discussion/24/ui-and-colour 
and 
again in FRQ ID - FRMAKER-1355

~~
Klaus Daube Phone:  +41-44-381 37 77
Schäracher 11   Mail:   kl...@daube.ch
CH-8053 Zürich  Web:www.daube.ch


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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Victoria Muir]

Oooo. Personally I loathe the new Acrobat UI (and have complained to Adobe 
about it), hopefully they don't decide to go that direction for FrameMaker. 

Added my comments to FRMAKER-2449 too.

Tori Muir
tm...@spot-on-creative.com | 650.430.8674www.spot-on-creative.com 
<http://www.spot-on-creative.com>

On 3/9/17, 1:39 PM, "Framers on behalf of Ian Proudfoot" 
<framers-bounces+tmuir=spot-on-creative@lists.frameusers.com on behalf of 
ian.proudf...@itp-x.co.uk> wrote:

I voted for FRMAKER-2449 too. I left the comment that FrameMaker has 
slavishly followed the Adobe Creative Cloud UI guidelines while being the only 
application in TCS to do so. RoboHelp uses a colourful MS ribbon interface 
while Acrobat and Captivate each follow their own unique UI styles. Then 
there's the Windows 2000 vintage style of Robo Screen Capture!

Ian

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+ian.proudfoot=itp-x.co...@lists.frameusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: 09 March 2017 20:50
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 
<framers@lists.frameusers.com>
    Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling 
to menu icons

Which is useful, thank you, but doesn't that mean you've just changed your 
settings for everything ELSE you use, too?

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:37 PM, techcommtools.com <m...@techcommtools.com>
wrote:

> Hi Lin, Keith,
>
> I agree…imagine how (not) happy I was to discover that without color, 
> I needed to redo nearly all the screenshots in my Fm book!
>
> I added my “vote” to the colored icons request at
>
> > https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
>
>
> However, you *can* adjust the size of your icons somewhat by adjusting 
> your Windows interface settings. See video #3 at
>  https://vimeopro.com/mattrsullivan/framemaker-2017-
> release-new-feature-videos <https://vimeopro.com/ 
> mattrsullivan/framemaker-2017-release-new-feature-videos>
> to watch a video I did for Adobe on the latest functionality.
>
> -Matt
> Matt R. Sullivan
> Tech Comm Tools
>
> online courses <http://www.techcommtools.com/upcoming-courses/>  |  
> you can book me <https://mattrsullivan.youcanbook.me/>
>
> Author, FrameMaker - Creating and Publishing Content
>  <http://www.amazon.com/Publishing-Fundamentals-
> Unstructured-FrameMaker-11/dp/0982811853/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&
> ie=UTF8=1414525942=1-1>
>
>
> >
    > > Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:13:23 -0500
    > > From: Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com>
> > To: Frame Users <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> > Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
> >   to  menu icons
> >
> >
> > I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most 
> > displeased
> to
> > see that the menu icons had been returned to the "corporate 
> > standard" of tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to 
> > distinguish. This is
> causing
> > me some eye strain, and I'm not at all happy about it.
> >
> > I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping 
> > at
> least
> > some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the request.
> >
> > I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on 
> > this subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users 
> > let Adobe know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time. 
> > Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't listen to the testers 
> > who complained. It seems like poor customer service to me.
> >
> > Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
> >
> > https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
> >
> > --
> > Lin Sims
> >
> >
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's 
> homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at 
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_

Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Ian Proudfoot]

I voted for FRMAKER-2449 too. I left the comment that FrameMaker has slavishly 
followed the Adobe Creative Cloud UI guidelines while being the only 
application in TCS to do so. RoboHelp uses a colourful MS ribbon interface 
while Acrobat and Captivate each follow their own unique UI styles. Then 
there's the Windows 2000 vintage style of Robo Screen Capture!

Ian

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+ian.proudfoot=itp-x.co...@lists.frameusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: 09 March 2017 20:50
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 
<framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

Which is useful, thank you, but doesn't that mean you've just changed your 
settings for everything ELSE you use, too?

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:37 PM, techcommtools.com <m...@techcommtools.com>
wrote:

> Hi Lin, Keith,
>
> I agree…imagine how (not) happy I was to discover that without color, 
> I needed to redo nearly all the screenshots in my Fm book!
>
> I added my “vote” to the colored icons request at
>
> > https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
>
>
> However, you *can* adjust the size of your icons somewhat by adjusting 
> your Windows interface settings. See video #3 at
>  https://vimeopro.com/mattrsullivan/framemaker-2017-
> release-new-feature-videos <https://vimeopro.com/ 
> mattrsullivan/framemaker-2017-release-new-feature-videos>
> to watch a video I did for Adobe on the latest functionality.
>
> -Matt
> Matt R. Sullivan
> Tech Comm Tools
>
> online courses <http://www.techcommtools.com/upcoming-courses/>  |  
> you can book me <https://mattrsullivan.youcanbook.me/>
>
> Author, FrameMaker - Creating and Publishing Content
>  <http://www.amazon.com/Publishing-Fundamentals-
> Unstructured-FrameMaker-11/dp/0982811853/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&
> ie=UTF8=1414525942=1-1>
>
>
> >
> > Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:13:23 -0500
> > From: Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com>
> > To: Frame Users <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> > Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
> >   to  menu icons
> >
> >
> > I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most 
> > displeased
> to
> > see that the menu icons had been returned to the "corporate 
> > standard" of tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to 
> > distinguish. This is
> causing
> > me some eye strain, and I'm not at all happy about it.
> >
> > I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping 
> > at
> least
> > some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the request.
> >
> > I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on 
> > this subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users 
> > let Adobe know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time. 
> > Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't listen to the testers 
> > who complained. It seems like poor customer service to me.
> >
> > Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
> >
> > https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
> >
> > --
> > Lin Sims
> >
> >
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's 
> homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at 
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>



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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Lin Sims]

Are you talking about this one, called *Bad button displays*?

https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2402

I ran a search in Tracker, but didn't find anything for index entries. Or
did you put that in the forums?

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Stamm, David <david.st...@gd-ms.com> wrote:

> 2017-03-09-04T20:15Z
>
> I, too, voted in favor of your request.  I also pointed out that your
> request is analogous to my request to enlarge the typeface in the dialog
> box for index entries.  Good luck.
>
> Dave Stamm
> Information Engineer
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com@lists.
> frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 13:14
> To: Frame Users
> Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to
> menu icons
>
> I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most displeased
> to see that the menu icons had been returned to the "corporate standard" of
> tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to distinguish. This is causing
> me some eye strain, and I'm not at all happy about it.
>
> I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at
> least some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the
> request.
>
> I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this
> subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let Adobe
> know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time. Frankly, I don't
> understand why they didn't listen to the testers who complained. It seems
> like poor customer service to me.
>
> Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
>
> https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
>
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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Lin Sims]

Which is useful, thank you, but doesn't that mean you've just changed your
settings for everything ELSE you use, too?

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:37 PM, techcommtools.com <m...@techcommtools.com>
wrote:

> Hi Lin, Keith,
>
> I agree…imagine how (not) happy I was to discover that without color, I
> needed to redo nearly all the screenshots in my Fm book!
>
> I added my “vote” to the colored icons request at
>
> > https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
>
>
> However, you *can* adjust the size of your icons somewhat by adjusting
> your Windows interface settings. See video #3 at
>  https://vimeopro.com/mattrsullivan/framemaker-2017-
> release-new-feature-videos <https://vimeopro.com/
> mattrsullivan/framemaker-2017-release-new-feature-videos>
> to watch a video I did for Adobe on the latest functionality.
>
> -Matt
> Matt R. Sullivan
> Tech Comm Tools
>
> online courses <http://www.techcommtools.com/upcoming-courses/>  |  you
> can book me <https://mattrsullivan.youcanbook.me/>
>
> Author, FrameMaker - Creating and Publishing Content
>  <http://www.amazon.com/Publishing-Fundamentals-
> Unstructured-FrameMaker-11/dp/0982811853/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&
> ie=UTF8=1414525942=1-1>
>
>
> >
> > Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:13:23 -0500
> > From: Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com>
> > To: Frame Users <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> > Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
> >   to  menu icons
> >
> >
> > I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most displeased
> to
> > see that the menu icons had been returned to the "corporate standard" of
> > tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to distinguish. This is
> causing
> > me some eye strain, and I'm not at all happy about it.
> >
> > I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at
> least
> > some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the request.
> >
> > I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this
> > subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let Adobe
> > know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time. Frankly, I don't
> > understand why they didn't listen to the testers who complained. It seems
> > like poor customer service to me.
> >
> > Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
> >
> > https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
> >
> > --
> > Lin Sims
> >
> >
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Eichelberger, Mark (King of Prussia)]

I voted too.  I will admit that my 60 year old eyes get tired of this interface.

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+mark.eichelberger=fiserv@lists.frameusers.com] On 
Behalf Of Tammy Van Boening
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 3:46 PM
To: 'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.' 
<framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

I will DEFINITELY vote for both, so that link Dave would be awesome. My aging 
eyes simply cannot handle this interface for any respectable length of time.

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com -Original Message-
From: Framers
[mailto:framers-bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com]
On Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 1:33 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to 
menu icons

Send me the link, Dave, I'll vote for yours, too!

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Stamm, David <david.st...@gd-ms.com> wrote:

> 2017-03-09-04T20:15Z
>
> I, too, voted in favor of your request.  I also pointed out that your 
> request is analogous to my request to enlarge the typeface in the 
> dialog box for index entries.  Good luck.
>
> Dave Stamm
> Information Engineer
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com@lists.
> frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 13:14
> To: Frame Users
> Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling 
> to menu icons
>
> I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most 
> displeased to see that the menu icons had been returned to the 
> "corporate standard" of tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to 
> distinguish. This is causing me some eye strain, and I'm not at all 
> happy
about it.
>
> I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at 
> least some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the 
> request.
>
> I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this 
> subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let 
> Adobe know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time.
> Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't listen to the testers who 
> complained. It seems like poor customer service to me.
>
> Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
>
> https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
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> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's 
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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Tammy Van Boening]

I will DEFINITELY vote for both, so that link Dave would be awesome. My
aging eyes simply cannot handle this interface for any respectable length of
time.

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com
-Original Message-
From: Framers
[mailto:framers-bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com]
On Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 1:33 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to
menu icons

Send me the link, Dave, I'll vote for yours, too!

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Stamm, David <david.st...@gd-ms.com> wrote:

> 2017-03-09-04T20:15Z
>
> I, too, voted in favor of your request.  I also pointed out that your 
> request is analogous to my request to enlarge the typeface in the 
> dialog box for index entries.  Good luck.
>
> Dave Stamm
> Information Engineer
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com@lists.
> frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 13:14
> To: Frame Users
> Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling 
> to menu icons
>
> I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most 
> displeased to see that the menu icons had been returned to the 
> "corporate standard" of tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to 
> distinguish. This is causing me some eye strain, and I'm not at all happy
about it.
>
> I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at 
> least some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the 
> request.
>
> I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this 
> subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let 
> Adobe know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time. 
> Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't listen to the testers who 
> complained. It seems like poor customer service to me.
>
> Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
>
> https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's 
> homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[techcommtools.com]

Hi Lin, Keith,

I agree…imagine how (not) happy I was to discover that without color, I needed 
to redo nearly all the screenshots in my Fm book!

I added my “vote” to the colored icons request at

> https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449


However, you *can* adjust the size of your icons somewhat by adjusting your 
Windows interface settings. See video #3 at
 https://vimeopro.com/mattrsullivan/framemaker-2017-release-new-feature-videos 
<https://vimeopro.com/mattrsullivan/framemaker-2017-release-new-feature-videos> 
 
to watch a video I did for Adobe on the latest functionality.

-Matt
Matt R. Sullivan 
Tech Comm Tools

online courses <http://www.techcommtools.com/upcoming-courses/>  |  you can 
book me <https://mattrsullivan.youcanbook.me/>

Author, FrameMaker - Creating and Publishing Content
 
<http://www.amazon.com/Publishing-Fundamentals-Unstructured-FrameMaker-11/dp/0982811853/ref=sr_1_1?s=books=UTF8=1414525942=1-1>


> 
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:13:23 -0500
> From: Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com>
> To: Frame Users <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling
>   to  menu icons
> 
> 
> I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most displeased to
> see that the menu icons had been returned to the "corporate standard" of
> tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to distinguish. This is causing
> me some eye strain, and I'm not at all happy about it.
> 
> I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at least
> some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the request.
> 
> I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this
> subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let Adobe
> know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time. Frankly, I don't
> understand why they didn't listen to the testers who complained. It seems
> like poor customer service to me.
> 
> Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
> 
> https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
> 
> -- 
> Lin Sims
> 
> 

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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Lin Sims]

Send me the link, Dave, I'll vote for yours, too!

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Stamm, David <david.st...@gd-ms.com> wrote:

> 2017-03-09-04T20:15Z
>
> I, too, voted in favor of your request.  I also pointed out that your
> request is analogous to my request to enlarge the typeface in the dialog
> box for index entries.  Good luck.
>
> Dave Stamm
> Information Engineer
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms.com@lists.
> frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 13:14
> To: Frame Users
> Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to
> menu icons
>
> I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most displeased
> to see that the menu icons had been returned to the "corporate standard" of
> tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to distinguish. This is causing
> me some eye strain, and I'm not at all happy about it.
>
> I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at
> least some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the
> request.
>
> I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this
> subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let Adobe
> know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time. Frankly, I don't
> understand why they didn't listen to the testers who complained. It seems
> like poor customer service to me.
>
> Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
>
> https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage
> at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Stamm, David]

2017-03-09-04T20:15Z

I, too, voted in favor of your request.  I also pointed out that your request 
is analogous to my request to enlarge the typeface in the dialog box for index 
entries.  Good luck.

Dave Stamm
Information Engineer

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+david.stamm=gd-ms@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf 
Of Lin Sims
Sent: 2017-03-09-Thursday 13:14
To: Frame Users
Subject: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu 
icons

I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most displeased to see 
that the menu icons had been returned to the "corporate standard" of tiny and 
faded, so that they are difficult to distinguish. This is causing me some eye 
strain, and I'm not at all happy about it.

I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at least 
some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the request.

I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this subject 
were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let Adobe know that this 
is a real issue they'll listen this time. Frankly, I don't understand why they 
didn't listen to the testers who complained. It seems like poor customer 
service to me.

Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.

https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449

--
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Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Keith Soltys]

I just added a comment and voted. My comment was: "This is important,
especially for those of us with visual problems. Word has allowed full
customization of the interface for years; I don't see why Adobe can't do
the same".

Regards
Keith

--
*Keith Soltys*
Senior Technical Writer
Architecture
TMX Group
(416) 947-4397
http://www.tmx.com/

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:

> I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most displeased to
> see that the menu icons had been returned to the "corporate standard" of
> tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to distinguish. This is causing
> me some eye strain, and I'm not at all happy about it.
>
> I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at least
> some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the request.
>
> I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this
> subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let Adobe
> know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time. Frankly, I don't
> understand why they didn't listen to the testers who complained. It seems
> like poor customer service to me.
>
> Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.
>
> https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>

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[Framers] FM 2017 Feature Request: Restore color and scaling to menu icons

[Lin Sims]

I recently purchased FM 2017 for myself at home, and was most displeased to
see that the menu icons had been returned to the "corporate standard" of
tiny and faded, so that they are difficult to distinguish. This is causing
me some eye strain, and I'm not at all happy about it.

I've put in an official feature request with Adobe, and I'm hoping at least
some of you agree with me and would be willing to vote for the request.

I am told that the complaints of the pre-release participants on this
subject were "dismissed and belittled"; perhaps if more users let Adobe
know that this is a real issue they'll listen this time. Frankly, I don't
understand why they didn't listen to the testers who complained. It seems
like poor customer service to me.

Here's a link to the request if you want to vote on it.

https://tracker.adobe.com/#/view/FRMAKER-2449

-- 
Lin Sims
___

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