Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
I figure anyone who owns a copy of FrameMaker 7 and MIF2Go has adequate technical chops to deal with continuing to use them in Windows 7. Adobe hasn't fixed most of the bugs that affect me, and they've added many more. FrameMaker is not 64-bit and probably never will be given that under the hood there appears to be code dating back to the 1980s. As I noted before, I found 64-bit Photoshop SLOWER than 32-bit. That wouldn't be true if I'd been working with huge files like a graphic designer would. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 1:26 AM, Davis, David david.da...@invensys.com wrote: Robert, Not wanting to be on your case /grins/ but you obviously have a fair amount of IT expertise - many users don't, and I don't think the approach you are recommending is going to suit them. Using legacy software is generally going to lead to compatibility problems (both with files people want to work on, and with the operating system). Additionally, vendors support current software with security fixes - whereas legacy software is left unpatched. And newer versions will tend to be compiled to take advantage of newer processor instruction sets (and 64 bit architecture, ahem ;) ... so can work harder/better/faster/longer etc. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Robert, Not wanting to be on your case /grins/ but you obviously have a fair amount of IT expertise - many users don't, and I don't think the approach you are recommending is going to suit them. Using legacy software is generally going to lead to compatibility problems (both with files people want to work on, and with the operating system). Additionally, vendors support current software with security fixes - whereas legacy software is left unpatched. And newer versions will tend to be compiled to take advantage of newer processor instruction sets (and 64 bit architecture, ahem ;) ... so can work harder/better/faster/longer etc. I've done more than one 'data centre migration' type documentation contract in the past few years, Where companies were trying to migrate thousands of servers and apps, and were having real problems because they had important business processes tied to legacy software (where people had taken a not broken, so don't fix it approach to upgrades), and had ended up leaving themselves stranded high and dry with no easy upgrade process to new hardware and OS platforms. It is generally a false economy, either on the enterprise or the individual scale. David Message: 3 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 09:19:22 -0800 From: Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com To: framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7 Message-ID: CAN3Yy4C8Zpk+4FPpWH1zrYmnEq_kV43tf0q1XxC=pcnyp+x...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I own FrameMaker 6, Acrobat 8, Photoshop 5, Illustrator 7, and various more obscure apps of similar vintage. They all work fine for my purposes and upgrading would be not just a waste of money but a waste of time having to get used to UI changes. Buying a newer version of something because I needed it to work with a client's docs is the main reason I've upgraded, but I haven't freelanced with my own software in a long time. Unicode was added in FrameMaker 8, which remains the high-water mark for that codeline. *** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com. Invensys PLC is owned by the Schneider-Electric Group. You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
I own FrameMaker 6, Acrobat 8, Photoshop 5, Illustrator 7, and various more obscure apps of similar vintage. They all work fine for my purposes and upgrading would be not just a waste of money but a waste of time having to get used to UI changes. Buying a newer version of something because I needed it to work with a client's docs is the main reason I've upgraded, but I haven't freelanced with my own software in a long time. Unicode was added in FrameMaker 8, which remains the high-water mark for that codeline. On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 12:43 AM, Davis, David david.da...@invensys.com wrote: The thing is, Robert, FM7 and Acrobat 7 have problems with more than just Windows 7, and if someone's earning their living using them, my advice to them would be to update their tools to something more recent, rather than compromise their operating system! Even on a basic level, if you only have FM7, you are not going to be able to open any FrameMaker docs you get sent from people with FM7.1, 7.2, 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12! And you don't have Unicode support (that was FM 7.2, I think?). ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
I typically have 10-15 applications running and if I come close to using 4GB it's a sign that one of my apps (usually Firefox) has a memory leak. As I noted earlier, I ran 64-bit Windows at work for a year and a half and performance was indistinguishable from my 32-bit system at home, and at work I preferred the 32-bit version of Photoshop since the 64-bit version took so long to load. If people experience performance bottlenecks on a PC with 4GB of RAM and 32-bit Windows when not performing resource-intensive tasks such as editing video, it's due to unnecessary bloatware, cycle-hogging utilities such as Bitdefender, software with memory leaks, or malware. On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 5:56 AM, Harding, Dan dhard...@illinois.edu wrote: I think buying more than 4GB of RAM would be a waste of money for most tech writers. I disagree 100%. It's not just the specific application(s) you run, but also how you work, that determines how much RAM is useful. If you only ever run a single word-processing application, then yes, more would be a waste. However, if you are a rampant multitasker, as I am, where you have a desktop pub application, word processing, Excel, a half dozen browser windows, etc., running simultaneously, system RAM is essential for responsiveness and to avoid virtual memory swapping. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
The thing is, Robert, FM7 and Acrobat 7 have problems with more than just Windows 7, and if someone's earning their living using them, my advice to them would be to update their tools to something more recent, rather than compromise their operating system! Even on a basic level, if you only have FM7, you are not going to be able to open any FrameMaker docs you get sent from people with FM7.1, 7.2, 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12! And you don't have Unicode support (that was FM 7.2, I think?). David Message: 7 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:42:45 -0800 From: Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com To: framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7 Message-ID: CAN3Yy4B9EKvjEdPtSQ+tJU6+jJ+6Y8P7meZ8DG=-a2txnmq...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The subject of this thread is Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7 and the opening post specifically mentioned FM7 and Acrobat 7, which do have problems with 64-bit Windows. On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) syed.hos...@aeris.net wrote: most people do not use old programs that don't work in 64-bit installations of Windows 7. *** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com. Invensys PLC is owned by the Schneider-Electric Group. You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
I think buying more than 4GB of RAM would be a waste of money for most tech writers. I disagree 100%. It's not just the specific application(s) you run, but also how you work, that determines how much RAM is useful. If you only ever run a single word-processing application, then yes, more would be a waste. However, if you are a rampant multitasker, as I am, where you have a desktop pub application, word processing, Excel, a half dozen browser windows, etc., running simultaneously, system RAM is essential for responsiveness and to avoid virtual memory swapping. IMO, there are 3 main things one can do to breathe life into older desktop computer hardware to make it feel more responsive: 1. Upgrade the OS to 64-bit, in conjunction with: 2. Increase RAM, if supported, to 8GB or 16GB* 3. Replace the boot drive with an SSD. This one single upgrade, more than any other, can result in doubling or tripling the apparent speed of a computer system, due to the minimized seek times that SSDs offer. SSDs are no longer nearly as pricey on a per-GB basis as they once were. I've taken 5+ year old laptops and desktops, swapped in SSDs, and people thought they got new computers... it's THAT big of an improvement. * Be careful on the RAM limitations depending on the version of Windows you have installed. Microsoft made the consumer-unfriendly decision with Windows 7 that you needed to have Windows 7 Professional rather than Home to access more than 16GB of RAM. This restriction was removed in Windows 8. Dan Harding Technical Editorial Specialist University of Illinois Tax School 419 Mumford Hall 1301 West Gregory Drive Urbana, IL 61801 217-333-0935 -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:50 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7 I think buying more than 4GB of RAM would be a waste of money for most tech writers. The only thing I've done in my work where I've needed more than 4GB is testing server applications with large memory footprints. The rest of the time I'm not using even half my 4GB. Outside of work I run music software that's extremely memory-intensive and 4GB on 32-bit is not a bottleneck. On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) syed.hos...@aeris.net wrote: On a modern computer/laptop of the past few years, which are usually fully 64-bit capable and _usually_ have more than 4GB of main memory, installing Windows 7 32-bit is silly and wasteful. You end up not using the memory above 4GB (actually, less, since the graphics cards and stuff also take up some of the low-memory in a 32-bit OS load), etc., etc., etc. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as dhard...@illinois.edu. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dharding%40illinois.edu Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
That's a false generalization. The 4MB in my several Windows systems is twice as much as I have ever needed. On the Mac I'm testing large-footprint server software in multiple VMs, so 8GB is cramped, but if I could swap my Mac for had two real PCs running 32-bit Linux with 4GB each I'd have better performance with fewer compatibility problems at a lower price. On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Matt Sullivan sullivanma...@gmail.com wrote: So adding RAM to your system would make your system(s) more usable...thx for clarifying. -Matt Matt R. Sullivan co-author Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11 P: 714.798.7596 | C: 714.585.2335 | m...@mattrsullivan.com @mattrsullivan linkedIn facebook mattrsullivan.com On Feb 19, 2014, at 9:00 AM, Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com wrote: If you're using only half the RAM you have, as is the case for my 4GB Windows systems, adding more won't speed things up. If you load more software than will fit in the amount of RAM you have, your system will slow down so much it might as well have crashed. That happened to me at work the other day: I have two VMs running enterprise software, they take up 3GB each, and my Mac has only 8GB. If I start a third VM by mistake, the system becomes totally unresponsive. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Well, your experience does not generalize for everybody though ... most people do not use old programs that don't work in 64-bit installations of Windows 7. On a 32-bit Windows OS installation, having more than 4GB is, of course, wasted memory. Since it would never be accessed regardless of need. For me, the only issues I encountered was finding some drivers for some 10 to 15 year old hardware (like a slide scanner), and in most cases, I have alternatives now. And, today, most new systems (like laptops) provide or have 64-bit versions available ... and the _standard_ memory available is sometimes 8GB (for powerful laptops, for example) and Windows 64-bit is standard on them as a consequence. Z -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:57 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7 That's a false generalization. The 4MB in my several Windows systems is twice as much as I have ever needed. On the Mac I'm testing large-footprint server software in multiple VMs, so 8GB is cramped, but if I could swap my Mac for had two real PCs running 32-bit Linux with 4GB each I'd have better performance with fewer compatibility problems at a lower price. On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Matt Sullivan sullivanma...@gmail.com wrote: So adding RAM to your system would make your system(s) more usable...thx for clarifying. -Matt Matt R. Sullivan co-author Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11 P: 714.798.7596 | C: 714.585.2335 | m...@mattrsullivan.com @mattrsullivan linkedIn facebook mattrsullivan.com On Feb 19, 2014, at 9:00 AM, Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com wrote: If you're using only half the RAM you have, as is the case for my 4GB Windows systems, adding more won't speed things up. If you load more software than will fit in the amount of RAM you have, your system will slow down so much it might as well have crashed. That happened to me at work the other day: I have two VMs running enterprise software, they take up 3GB each, and my Mac has only 8GB. If I start a third VM by mistake, the system becomes totally unresponsive. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as syed.hos...@aeris.net. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/syed.hosain%40aeris.net Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
The subject of this thread is Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7 and the opening post specifically mentioned FM7 and Acrobat 7, which do have problems with 64-bit Windows. On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) syed.hos...@aeris.net wrote: most people do not use old programs that don't work in 64-bit installations of Windows 7. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Don't know how to answer that comment ... but I would be willing try installing FM 7.2 on my current system, since I am confident it would work fine. On my current system, I have both FM 8 (not 7.2) and FM 11 installed. And they work perfectly fine. Z -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 11:43 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7 The subject of this thread is Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7 and the opening post specifically mentioned FM7 and Acrobat 7, which do have problems with 64-bit Windows. On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) syed.hos...@aeris.net wrote: most people do not use old programs that don't work in 64-bit installations of Windows 7. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as syed.hos...@aeris.net. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/syed.hosain%40aeris.net Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
RAM is very cheap now-a-days, and your computers runs much faster with more RAM. It's a much more pleasant experience. Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 18-Feb-14 3:52 PM, Harro de Jong wrote: Robert Lauriston wrote: I think buying more than 4GB of RAM would be a waste of money for most tech writers. There's one exception I'm running into at the moment: working with 3d CAD files. I'm using Solidworks Explorer to generate images for a manual; with the entire machine model loaded (a ~100 MB file), Solidworks Explorer happily eats 10+ GB of memory. Harro de Jong Triview ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as shmue...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shmuelw1%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
I had compatibility problems in 64-bit Windows with a lot of older software I'd rather not waste money buying again. Plus for work I spend a lot of time testing, so the closer my system is to what customers are using, the better. Otherwise I end up having to spend more time dealing with VMs. You'd think that 64-bit would be the way to go for audio production, but the consensus I found was that it's still safer to stay with 32-bit to avoid various problems. I'm not hitting any bottlenecks so I would not get any better performance if I had chosen 64-bit. On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 1:34 AM, Davis, David david.da...@invensys.com wrote: Robert, I'd agree that if someone is buying a new computer and is only planning on doing word processing on it, then there's probably no point in them spending cash on getting over 2GB RAM in it (spend it on a better quality PSU, or a nice big fast SSD drive, or a couple of nice big monitor screens, or...) But if you already have a PC with 2GB RAM and have a choice of 32bit vs 64bit Windows, then I really don't see any reason to go for 32 bit on the grounds of compatibility - the only things you may have compatibility problems with are, as you say, ancient DOS programs or some obsolete hardware drivers and if someone is concerned with compatibility and wants an easy life, I don't see what they'd be doing with either of those on their PC in the first place! :) Avoiding keeping your IT estate current on compatibility grounds is very much a false economy, as sooner or later they'll find themselves marooned with software that is no longer up to the job and with no easy upgrade path... As for memory-intensive audio software: that's a textbook example of an application where 64 bit is ideal! If you're running big audio sample libraries (e.g. there's orchestral ones out there these days that run to tens of gigabytes) then you'll want them all loaded up in RAM at once, which is only possible on a 64 bit OS. You can expect hugely better performance in that scenario kind of scenario with 64 bit. If you're not seeing it then that suggests to me that something's not configured right on your PC. Message: 6 Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:49:35 -0800 From: Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com To: framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7 Message-ID: can3yy4ag7kcnslesfev2r_haitompkztzuduqtpjgkhqpxy...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think buying more than 4GB of RAM would be a waste of money for most tech writers. The only thing I've done in my work where I've needed more than 4GB is testing server applications with large memory footprints. The rest of the time I'm not using even half my 4GB. Outside of work I run music software that's extremely memory-intensive and 4GB on 32-bit is not a bottleneck. On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) syed.hos...@aeris.net wrote: On a modern computer/laptop of the past few years, which are usually fully 64-bit capable and _usually_ have more than 4GB of main memory, installing Windows 7 32-bit is silly and wasteful. You end up not using the memory above 4GB (actually, less, since the graphics cards and stuff also take up some of the low-memory in a 32-bit OS load), etc., etc., etc. *** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com. Invensys PLC is owned by the Schneider-Electric Group. You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as rob...@lauriston.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/robert%40lauriston.com Send
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
If you're using only half the RAM you have, as is the case for my 4GB Windows systems, adding more won't speed things up. If you load more software than will fit in the amount of RAM you have, your system will slow down so much it might as well have crashed. That happened to me at work the other day: I have two VMs running enterprise software, they take up 3GB each, and my Mac has only 8GB. If I start a third VM by mistake, the system becomes totally unresponsive. On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 12:50 AM, Shmuel Wolfson shmue...@gmail.com wrote: RAM is very cheap now-a-days, and your computers runs much faster with more RAM. It's a much more pleasant experience. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Robert, I'd agree that if someone is buying a new computer and is only planning on doing word processing on it, then there's probably no point in them spending cash on getting over 2GB RAM in it (spend it on a better quality PSU, or a nice big fast SSD drive, or a couple of nice big monitor screens, or...) But if you already have a PC with 2GB RAM and have a choice of 32bit vs 64bit Windows, then I really don't see any reason to go for 32 bit on the grounds of compatibility - the only things you may have compatibility problems with are, as you say, ancient DOS programs or some obsolete hardware drivers and if someone is concerned with compatibility and wants an easy life, I don't see what they'd be doing with either of those on their PC in the first place! :) Avoiding keeping your IT estate current on compatibility grounds is very much a false economy, as sooner or later they'll find themselves marooned with software that is no longer up to the job and with no easy upgrade path... As for memory-intensive audio software: that's a textbook example of an application where 64 bit is ideal! If you're running big audio sample libraries (e.g. there's orchestral ones out there these days that run to tens of gigabytes) then you'll want them all loaded up in RAM at once, which is only possible on a 64 bit OS. You can expect hugely better performance in that scenario kind of scenario with 64 bit. If you're not seeing it then that suggests to me that something's not configured right on your PC. Message: 6 Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:49:35 -0800 From: Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com To: framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7 Message-ID: can3yy4ag7kcnslesfev2r_haitompkztzuduqtpjgkhqpxy...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think buying more than 4GB of RAM would be a waste of money for most tech writers. The only thing I've done in my work where I've needed more than 4GB is testing server applications with large memory footprints. The rest of the time I'm not using even half my 4GB. Outside of work I run music software that's extremely memory-intensive and 4GB on 32-bit is not a bottleneck. On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) syed.hos...@aeris.net wrote: On a modern computer/laptop of the past few years, which are usually fully 64-bit capable and _usually_ have more than 4GB of main memory, installing Windows 7 32-bit is silly and wasteful. You end up not using the memory above 4GB (actually, less, since the graphics cards and stuff also take up some of the low-memory in a 32-bit OS load), etc., etc., etc. *** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com. Invensys PLC is owned by the Schneider-Electric Group. You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Robert Lauriston wrote: I think buying more than 4GB of RAM would be a waste of money for most tech writers. There's one exception I'm running into at the moment: working with 3d CAD files. I'm using Solidworks Explorer to generate images for a manual; with the entire machine model loaded (a ~100 MB file), Solidworks Explorer happily eats 10+ GB of memory. Harro de Jong Triview ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
I think buying more than 4GB of RAM would be a waste of money for most tech writers. The only thing I've done in my work where I've needed more than 4GB is testing server applications with large memory footprints. The rest of the time I'm not using even half my 4GB. Outside of work I run music software that's extremely memory-intensive and 4GB on 32-bit is not a bottleneck. On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) syed.hos...@aeris.net wrote: On a modern computer/laptop of the past few years, which are usually fully 64-bit capable and _usually_ have more than 4GB of main memory, installing Windows 7 32-bit is silly and wasteful. You end up not using the memory above 4GB (actually, less, since the graphics cards and stuff also take up some of the low-memory in a 32-bit OS load), etc., etc., etc. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Robert, You don't say what benchmarking method you used to compare 64 bit and 32 bit Windows - Generally, it will only manifest itself where one program (or a combination of programs) want to access more than 2GB of RAM in one go - it's always going to be faster to talk to RAM than to page things on and off the pagefile.sys on your hard drive. I can't vouch for the ability of any modern OS to run ancient DOS apps, but in general I tend to find it's a risky strategy to use obsolete software for things that you rely on to get your work done. There'll be no vendor support. -- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 10:02:18 -0800 From: Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com To: Davis, David david.da...@invensys.com, framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7 Message-ID: can3yy4aazjqgvo3+rhrbvvwdwwofofnpghwihaphcvnnncc...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The memory limit is per process. There are various ways that 32-bit applications that need more than 2GB of memory (which few do) can use it in 32-bit Windows. I worked for 18 months with 64-bit Windows 7 at work and 32-bit Windows 7 at home. I saw no performance difference. I had both 64-bit and 32-bit Photoshop on the work computer and the only difference I noticed was that it took much longer for the 64-bit version to load. The only significant difference was that I could run things at home I could not run at work. XP Mode had problems. 32-bit Win7 can run ancient DOS apps, 64-bit can't. On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Davis, David david.da...@invensys.com wrote: Personally I wouldn't do it that way - as you then don't get the advantages 64 bit windows offers with being able to address more RAM - in 32 bit Windows you can only use a couple of GB. With a busy PC, big documents, big graphics, video etc you can easily use more than 2GB of memory. The pro editions of Windows 7 offer an XP Mode for running old applications (Basically it runs them inside a virtual machine of Windows XP - but transparently, once you've set it up, you just click the program's icon to launch it like any other, and it appears to be running in Windows 7, and can access your Win7 filesystem seamlessly). I've never yet encountered an application that couldn't work in XP mode like this, even 16 bit (!) ones designed to run on Windows 3.1. From: Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com Install Windows 7 32-bit rather than 64-bit, fewer potential compatibility problems. *** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com. Invensys PLC is owned by the Schneider-Electric Group. You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
YMMV, of course. I also edit videos on my system. These are in HD format and are my training video's can run an hour or sometimes more. Each 15 minute file from my Canon video recorder starts out as 2GB in size. So, more than 4GB and a 64-bit video editing package is essential ... not just a nice to have! The final rendering time on a 32-bit system would be too long to be workable. The point is that memory is inexpensive (dare I say, cheap) nowadays. No reason not to have more than 4GB available - I have 32Gb on my Lenovo laptop, for example. Z -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 10:50 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7 I think buying more than 4GB of RAM would be a waste of money for most tech writers. The only thing I've done in my work where I've needed more than 4GB is testing server applications with large memory footprints. The rest of the time I'm not using even half my 4GB. Outside of work I run music software that's extremely memory-intensive and 4GB on 32-bit is not a bottleneck. On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) syed.hos...@aeris.net wrote: On a modern computer/laptop of the past few years, which are usually fully 64-bit capable and _usually_ have more than 4GB of main memory, installing Windows 7 32-bit is silly and wasteful. You end up not using the memory above 4GB (actually, less, since the graphics cards and stuff also take up some of the low-memory in a 32-bit OS load), etc., etc., etc. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as syed.hos...@aeris.net. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/syed.hosain%40aeris.net Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
I didn't use any benchmarking method, just worked all day with Windows 7 32-bit or 64-bit depending on whether I was in the office or at home. 32-bit was better at running some old software, 64-bit could not run some old apps at all (even in XP mode), otherwise there was no practical difference. I would have switched the work computer to 32-bit if it would not have meant several days of downtime. Years ago I ran benchmark tests and wrote hardware reviews for publications such as PC World and CNET. The guys who wrote the benchmarks kept making them harder to try to make the ever-faster computers sweat. The truth, which I was not usually allowed to write, was that for most users the slowest machines were still so fast that there were no performance bottlenecks. It's even more true today: there's no reason for most people to spend extra money for above-average specs. Compatibility and reliability are far more important. I haven't needed vendor support for any of my old applications in years. For that matter, when I need support for one of my current applications, I usually hit a dead end: either it's a bug or they tell me to file a feature request. On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 1:11 AM, Davis, David david.da...@invensys.com wrote: Robert, You don't say what benchmarking method you used to compare 64 bit and 32 bit Windows - Generally, it will only manifest itself where one program (or a combination of programs) want to access more than 2GB of RAM in one go - it's always going to be faster to talk to RAM than to page things on and off the pagefile.sys on your hard drive. I can't vouch for the ability of any modern OS to run ancient DOS apps, but in general I tend to find it's a risky strategy to use obsolete software for things that you rely on to get your work done. There'll be no vendor support. -- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 10:02:18 -0800 From: Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com To: Davis, David david.da...@invensys.com, framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7 Message-ID: can3yy4aazjqgvo3+rhrbvvwdwwofofnpghwihaphcvnnncc...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The memory limit is per process. There are various ways that 32-bit applications that need more than 2GB of memory (which few do) can use it in 32-bit Windows. I worked for 18 months with 64-bit Windows 7 at work and 32-bit Windows 7 at home. I saw no performance difference. I had both 64-bit and 32-bit Photoshop on the work computer and the only difference I noticed was that it took much longer for the 64-bit version to load. The only significant difference was that I could run things at home I could not run at work. XP Mode had problems. 32-bit Win7 can run ancient DOS apps, 64-bit can't. On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Davis, David david.da...@invensys.com wrote: Personally I wouldn't do it that way - as you then don't get the advantages 64 bit windows offers with being able to address more RAM - in 32 bit Windows you can only use a couple of GB. With a busy PC, big documents, big graphics, video etc you can easily use more than 2GB of memory. The pro editions of Windows 7 offer an XP Mode for running old applications (Basically it runs them inside a virtual machine of Windows XP - but transparently, once you've set it up, you just click the program's icon to launch it like any other, and it appears to be running in Windows 7, and can access your Win7 filesystem seamlessly). I've never yet encountered an application that couldn't work in XP mode like this, even 16 bit (!) ones designed to run on Windows 3.1. From: Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com Install Windows 7 32-bit rather than 64-bit, fewer potential compatibility problems. *** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com. Invensys PLC is owned by the Schneider-Electric Group. You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any
Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Thanks for the tips. It turns out that the laptop will only be available at the beginning of April (it is something that someone is giving back). So I will keep this all in mind. Another issue is that I have added various small add-ons to Frame over the years, and I have to reconstruct everything that I did. Message: 6 Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:05:21 +1300 From: Helen Borrie hele...@iinet.net.au To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7 Message-ID: 20140211204939.zluh14571.mta02.xtra.co...@dev1.mail.iinet.net.au Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii At 12:47 a.m. 7/02/2014, Carrie Baker wrote: Hello, I don't think I am the only person with oldish software. I work in a fairly small company, as a single technical writer. I have FrameMaker 7, and use with Acrobat 7. I have FrameMaker 8 and Acrobat 8 (jumped over from FM6 and Acro6, no upgrade path available at that point, since the new age Adobe actively prevents it as soon as there is an upgrade-ineligible newer version on the market). I started out with the same doubts as you. The first installation of Win7 I had was on my 32-bit laptop. I had retained all the FM and Acrobat updates as a hedge against the historical horrors of trying to reinstall on WinXP after a disk death. After installing from the licensed CDs I carefully applied the updates, one by one, to test my doubts, always rebooting after each one. I ended up with a perfect installation, not quick, but effective. No XP mode. Encouraged, I followed the same route when I went to install on my development box, a clean install on a 64-bit Win7. I expected dramas. Eighteen months down the track, there have been none. Both products installed into Program Files (X86) and the updates knew where to find them. With your FM7 and Acro7, I suggest Just do it . It will either work or it won't, as my wise old Norfolk mother-in-law would have said. If it doesn't, you can run the Uninstall and then download CCleaner from www.filehippo.com, to get rid of the rubbish left behind. Just a point to those encouraging Carrie to install as 64-bit - there's no way you can make a 32-bit application install or run as 64-bit. Another point - deriving from the earlier horror experiences of reinstalling on XP - is to install Acrobat FIRST (apply the updates later) and make sure the FM installer doesn't install Distiller or any other Acrobat components. AFAIR, there's a dialog box that tells you there is an older version of Distiller already installedyou have to tell it to ignore that problem because it's not a problem, just bad logic in the installer. Helen -- Carrie Baker carrie...@gmail.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
The memory limit is per process. There are various ways that 32-bit applications that need more than 2GB of memory (which few do) can use it in 32-bit Windows. I worked for 18 months with 64-bit Windows 7 at work and 32-bit Windows 7 at home. I saw no performance difference. I had both 64-bit and 32-bit Photoshop on the work computer and the only difference I noticed was that it took much longer for the 64-bit version to load. The only significant difference was that I could run things at home I could not run at work. XP Mode had problems. 32-bit Win7 can run ancient DOS apps, 64-bit can't. On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Davis, David david.da...@invensys.com wrote: Personally I wouldn't do it that way - as you then don't get the advantages 64 bit windows offers with being able to address more RAM - in 32 bit Windows you can only use a couple of GB. With a busy PC, big documents, big graphics, video etc you can easily use more than 2GB of memory. The pro editions of Windows 7 offer an XP Mode for running old applications (Basically it runs them inside a virtual machine of Windows XP - but transparently, once you've set it up, you just click the program's icon to launch it like any other, and it appears to be running in Windows 7, and can access your Win7 filesystem seamlessly). I've never yet encountered an application that couldn't work in XP mode like this, even 16 bit (!) ones designed to run on Windows 3.1. From: Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com Install Windows 7 32-bit rather than 64-bit, fewer potential compatibility problems. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Personally I wouldn't do it that way - as you then don't get the advantages 64 bit windows offers with being able to address more RAM - in 32 bit Windows you can only use a couple of GB. With a busy PC, big documents, big graphics, video etc you can easily use more than 2GB of memory. The pro editions of Windows 7 offer an XP Mode for running old applications (Basically it runs them inside a virtual machine of Windows XP - but transparently, once you've set it up, you just click the program's icon to launch it like any other, and it appears to be running in Windows 7, and can access your Win7 filesystem seamlessly). I've never yet encountered an application that couldn't work in XP mode like this, even 16 bit (!) ones designed to run on Windows 3.1. David -- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 09:57:44 -0800 From: Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com To: Carrie Baker carrie...@gmail.com, framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7 Message-ID: CAN3Yy4A_XEUTYutAZAY13aFi6dy=aai9d3kmduamgozfoht...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Install Windows 7 32-bit rather than 64-bit, fewer potential compatibility problems. *** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com. Invensys PLC is owned by the Schneider-Electric Group. You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
I'm on Frame 8, which is only slightly newer than Carrie (who originally asked the question, and is on Frame 7), and am using it with no problems* on Windows 7, 64-bit. *once I got it fully patched, as the re-install was from the original Frame 8 disk (I went from an XP machine to new Win 7 machine). Note: if you are moving to a new machine, and re-installing the same software, on your old machine, open Frame, and deactivate it before installing it on your new machine (HelpDeactivate). Sorry, I have no tips or tricks about what other software runs on Win 7 vs XP, just figured I'd chime in about using an older version of Frame on Win 7. Thanks, Lise On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 2:52 AM, Davis, David david.da...@invensys.comwrote: Personally I wouldn't do it that way - as you then don't get the advantages 64 bit windows offers with being able to address more RAM - in 32 bit Windows you can only use a couple of GB. With a busy PC, big documents, big graphics, video etc you can easily use more than 2GB of memory. The pro editions of Windows 7 offer an XP Mode for running old applications (Basically it runs them inside a virtual machine of Windows XP - but transparently, once you've set it up, you just click the program's icon to launch it like any other, and it appears to be running in Windows 7, and can access your Win7 filesystem seamlessly). I've never yet encountered an application that couldn't work in XP mode like this, even 16 bit (!) ones designed to run on Windows 3.1. David -- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 09:57:44 -0800 From: Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com To: Carrie Baker carrie...@gmail.com, framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7 Message-ID: CAN3Yy4A_XEUTYutAZAY13aFi6dy= aai9d3kmduamgozfoht...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Install Windows 7 32-bit rather than 64-bit, fewer potential compatibility problems. *** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com. Invensys PLC is owned by the Schneider-Electric Group. You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates). ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as rentagoodb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/rentagoodbook%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- *Save the earth.* It's the only planet with chocolate. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
At 12:47 a.m. 7/02/2014, Carrie Baker wrote: Hello, I don't think I am the only person with oldish software. I work in a fairly small company, as a single technical writer. I have FrameMaker 7, and use with Acrobat 7. I have FrameMaker 8 and Acrobat 8 (jumped over from FM6 and Acro6, no upgrade path available at that point, since the new age Adobe actively prevents it as soon as there is an upgrade-ineligible newer version on the market). I started out with the same doubts as you. The first installation of Win7 I had was on my 32-bit laptop. I had retained all the FM and Acrobat updates as a hedge against the historical horrors of trying to reinstall on WinXP after a disk death. After installing from the licensed CDs I carefully applied the updates, one by one, to test my doubts, always rebooting after each one. I ended up with a perfect installation, not quick, but effective. No XP mode. Encouraged, I followed the same route when I went to install on my development box, a clean install on a 64-bit Win7. I expected dramas. Eighteen months down the track, there have been none. Both products installed into Program Files (X86) and the updates knew where to find them. With your FM7 and Acro7, I suggest Just do it . It will either work or it won't, as my wise old Norfolk mother-in-law would have said. If it doesn't, you can run the Uninstall and then download CCleaner from www.filehippo.com, to get rid of the rubbish left behind. Just a point to those encouraging Carrie to install as 64-bit - there's no way you can make a 32-bit application install or run as 64-bit. Another point - deriving from the earlier horror experiences of reinstalling on XP - is to install Acrobat FIRST (apply the updates later) and make sure the FM installer doesn't install Distiller or any other Acrobat components. AFAIR, there's a dialog box that tells you there is an older version of Distiller already installedyou have to tell it to ignore that problem because it's not a problem, just bad logic in the installer. Helen ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Helen Borrie said: Just a point to those encouraging Carrie to install as 64-bit - there's no way you can make a 32-bit application install or run as 64-bit. You are correct, but ... I think the suggestions have been to install the Windows 7 OS itself as 64-bit, not the application, on modern computers and laptops. On a modern computer/laptop of the past few years, which are usually fully 64-bit capable and _usually_ have more than 4GB of main memory, installing Windows 7 32-bit is silly and wasteful. You end up not using the memory above 4GB (actually, less, since the graphics cards and stuff also take up some of the low-memory in a 32-bit OS load), etc., etc., etc. FrameMaker 7.2 and Acrobat 7 (which are 32-bit apps) should/will run perfectly fine on Windows 7 64-bit systems. Indeed, most 32-bit apps of even more than a few years ago, will work ... generally, it is low-level stuff like drivers, etc., that are very specific and sensitive to the chosen OS. Z ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Install Windows 7 32-bit rather than 64-bit, fewer potential compatibility problems. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Hello, I don't think I am the only person with oldish software. I work in a fairly small company, as a single technical writer. I have FrameMaker 7, and use with Acrobat 7. I create PDF files for distribution and help files with Webworks ePublisher Pro version 9.02 I am also using a version of MIF2Go from a few years ago (I do have a newer one, but once everything worked OK, I did not want to break something with an upgrade...) And all of this wonderful technology runs on XP. Finally our IT manager told me that a new computer has become available for me. This new laptop will obviously run Windows 7. As you might have gathered budget is a bit tight where I work. So the first question is will the applications I have run on Windows 7? If not, what do you advise? I asked the RD round here whether the help files (2 chm, the rest html) I provide them with, run properly on our applications, and they claimed that they do. Most run in a browser (IE), and the others are made in C++. If I have to upgrade the applications I use, I would also consider making further changes so that they will be compatible with today's technology. Would be interested in hearing any advice about this. thanks -- Carrie Baker carrie...@gmail.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Expect to pay full price on all upgrades. Other than that, everything is still basically the same with a different look and feel. Scott T On Feb 6, 2014, at 5:47, Carrie Baker carrie...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I don't think I am the only person with oldish software. I work in a fairly small company, as a single technical writer. I have FrameMaker 7, and use with Acrobat 7. I create PDF files for distribution and help files with Webworks ePublisher Pro version 9.02 I am also using a version of MIF2Go from a few years ago (I do have a newer one, but once everything worked OK, I did not want to break something with an upgrade...) And all of this wonderful technology runs on XP. Finally our IT manager told me that a new computer has become available for me. This new laptop will obviously run Windows 7. As you might have gathered budget is a bit tight where I work. So the first question is will the applications I have run on Windows 7? If not, what do you advise? I asked the RD round here whether the help files (2 chm, the rest html) I provide them with, run properly on our applications, and they claimed that they do. Most run in a browser (IE), and the others are made in C++. If I have to upgrade the applications I use, I would also consider making further changes so that they will be compatible with today's technology. Would be interested in hearing any advice about this. thanks -- Carrie Baker carrie...@gmail.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as qui...@airmail.net. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/quills%40airmail.net Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 13:47:22 +0200, Carrie Baker carrie...@gmail.com wrote: I have FrameMaker 7, and use with Acrobat 7. I create PDF files for distribution and help files with Webworks ePublisher Pro version 9.02 I am also using a version of MIF2Go from a few years ago (I do have a newer one, but once everything worked OK, I did not want to break something with an upgrade...) And all of this wonderful technology runs on XP. Finally our IT manager told me that a new computer has become available for me. This new laptop will obviously run Windows 7. Keep all your current versions. Just put FM 7.1 on Win 7, works fine. So does old Mif2Go. -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. jer...@omsys.comhttp://mif2go.com/ ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Thanks Jeremy Will the latest version of Mif2go work with all this, or should I stay with the one I am currently using? On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:52 PM, Jeremy H. Griffith jer...@omsys.com wrote: On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 13:47:22 +0200, Carrie Baker carrie...@gmail.com wrote: I have FrameMaker 7, and use with Acrobat 7. I create PDF files for distribution and help files with Webworks ePublisher Pro version 9.02 I am also using a version of MIF2Go from a few years ago (I do have a newer one, but once everything worked OK, I did not want to break something with an upgrade...) And all of this wonderful technology runs on XP. Finally our IT manager told me that a new computer has become available for me. This new laptop will obviously run Windows 7. Keep all your current versions. Just put FM 7.1 on Win 7, works fine. So does old Mif2Go. -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. jer...@omsys.comhttp://mif2go.com/ -- Carrie Baker carrie...@gmail.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
On Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:32:17 +0200, Carrie Baker carrie...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Jeremy Will the latest version of Mif2go work with all this, or should I stay with the one I am currently using? As long as the one you are using works, and you have no requirements a newer one supports better, stay with what works. -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. jer...@omsys.comhttp://mif2go.com/ ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
