Odd cross-ref substitution 7.2
Generally I sing the praises about how much more stable Frame's cross-references are than Word. I just had a really odd occurrence, though, which I need to understand. I removed a heading which was the link destination of several cross-references. When I searched for broken cross-references, none were found. Instead the cross-reference retained it's old label (expected) but linked to a nearby heading instead. This is obviously dangerous. Any ideas about what could cause this and how to prevent it? David Kuhn Technical Writer, PBG +1.972.9.776.1956 (desk) +1.972.54.307.8987 (mobile) AMDOCS > CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE SYSTEMS INNOVATION This message and the information contained herein is proprietary and confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement, you may review at http://www.amdocs.com/email_disclaimer.asp
Odd cross-ref substitution 7.2
Hi David, I assume you are working with unstructured FrameMaker. Apparently, when you removed the heading, you did not remove the Cross-Ref marker that was in the heading paragraph. The marker ended up in the hearby heading. Thus, the cross-reference was not unresolved, but still pointed to that marker. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com > Generally I sing the praises about how much more stable Frame's > cross-references are than Word. > > I just had a really odd occurrence, though, which I need to understand. > > I removed a heading which was the link destination of several > cross-references. > > When I searched for broken cross-references, none were found. > > Instead the cross-reference retained it's old label (expected) but > linked to a nearby heading instead. > > This is obviously dangerous. > > Any ideas about what could cause this and how to prevent it? > > David Kuhn > Technical Writer, PBG > > +1.972.9.776.1956 (desk) > +1.972.54.307.8987 (mobile) > > AMDOCS > CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE SYSTEMS INNOVATION
Odd cross-ref substitution 7.2
David Kuhn wrote: > I removed a heading which was the link destination of several > cross-references. > > When I searched for broken cross-references, none were found. > > Instead the cross-reference retained it's old label (expected) but > linked to a nearby heading instead. > > This is obviously dangerous. > > Any ideas about what could cause this and how to prevent it? By "nearby," you mean adjacent, right? Rick explained about the marker, but permit me to make a larger point. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the reason you didn't know about the marker is because you work with View > Text Symbols turned off. Many Framers seem to work that way. *That*, IMHO, is obviously dangerous. It's far too easy to delete something you didn't intend to -- or, as in your case, fail to delete something you did intend to. I can't _imagine_ editing without being able to see everything I'm editing (x-ref markers, index markers, pilcrows, etc). The only time I turn off Text Symbols and Borders (with one click, thanks to my Microtype-enhanced toolbar) is when I want to see how the page will look when printed/PDFed. "It's my opinion and it's very true." ;-) Richard Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 --
Odd cross-ref substitution 7.2
I do actually work with Text Symbols showing except, as you do, for a Print preview. (I suppose it's possible that I couldn't resist an edit in this mode, however.) The cross-reference markers tend to overlap the first character in a heading and I find it very difficult to believe that I selected the section and text under it, but missed the marker. Though it must have happened as a fluke of cursor positioning. But even with the text symbols showing, this would have been difficult to see, a marker that overlaps a character jumping to the next heading. I do have a larger issue, though with the symbols. Sometimes I find it very difficult to tell what they are doing there. The upside down T is conditional text. The right-side up T is a cross-reference marker. (I forget about the index.) But other than that, aren't there some additional functions of markers in which the same symbol can be used for different things? How do you distinguish? There was a document that I couldn't identify what purpose particular markers served. The writer decided, then, to delete all the markers in the document. I couldn't believe it (even more that he reported no problems with cross-references afterward.) In short, is there a way to select a marker and find out what it is doing? David Kuhn Technical Writer, PBG +1.972.9.776.1956 (desk) +1.972.54.307.8987 (mobile) AMDOCS > CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE SYSTEMS INNOVATION -Original Message- From: Combs, Richard [mailto:richard.co...@polycom.com] Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 5:26 PM To: David Kuhn; framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: Odd cross-ref substitution 7.2 David Kuhn wrote: > I removed a heading which was the link destination of several > cross-references. > > When I searched for broken cross-references, none were found. > > Instead the cross-reference retained it's old label (expected) but > linked to a nearby heading instead. > > This is obviously dangerous. > > Any ideas about what could cause this and how to prevent it? By "nearby," you mean adjacent, right? Rick explained about the marker, but permit me to make a larger point. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the reason you didn't know about the marker is because you work with View > Text Symbols turned off. Many Framers seem to work that way. *That*, IMHO, is obviously dangerous. It's far too easy to delete something you didn't intend to -- or, as in your case, fail to delete something you did intend to. I can't _imagine_ editing without being able to see everything I'm editing (x-ref markers, index markers, pilcrows, etc). The only time I turn off Text Symbols and Borders (with one click, thanks to my Microtype-enhanced toolbar) is when I want to see how the page will look when printed/PDFed. "It's my opinion and it's very true." ;-) Richard Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 -- This message and the information contained herein is proprietary and confidential and subject to the Amdocs policy statement, you may review at http://www.amdocs.com/email_disclaimer.asp
Odd cross-ref substitution 7.2
David Kuhn wrote: > In short, is there a way to select a marker and find out what it is > doing? You can select one just like a single character, but it's a bit trickier, and there may be multiple markers "on top of each other." So do it this way: 1) Open the Marker dialog (Special > Marker). 2) In the document, put the cursor somewhere before the marker(s) in which you're interested. 3) Open the Find/Change dialog, set Find to Any Marker, and click Find. The first marker found is selected, and the Marker dialog shows you the Marker Type and Marker Text. 4) Click Find again to advance to the next marker. Rinse and repeat. HTH! Richard Richard G. Combs Senior Technical Writer Polycom, Inc. richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom 303-223-5111 -- rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom 303-777-0436 --
Odd cross-ref substitution 7.2
This discussion got me thinking. It would be fairly easy to write a FrameScript plugin that detects whether or not you are about to kill off a marker when you delete or replace text. A dialog box could give you the option of deleting or keeping the marker. I think I'm going to take a crack at coding that and will post it on my web site in a week or so, along with the other freely-available scripts posted there. Best regards, Martin Martin R. Smith www.golehtek.com
Odd cross-ref substitution 7.2
Hi David, One small tip that may be helpful: when you triple-click a paragraph, you are sure to select the entire paragraph, including any markers that it may contain. If you hold down the shift key and click any additional paragraphs, you will be selecting entire paragraphs as well. Rick Quatro Carmen Publishing Inc 585-659-8267 www.frameexpert.com > The cross-reference markers tend to overlap the first character in a > heading and I find it very difficult to believe that I selected the > section and text under it, but missed the marker. Though it must have > happened as a fluke of cursor positioning.
Odd cross-ref substitution 7.2
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:49:19 +0300, "David Kuhn" wrote: >I do have a larger issue, though with the symbols. >Sometimes I find it very difficult to tell what they are doing there. >The upside down T is conditional text. >The right-side up T is a cross-reference marker. Nope! *All* the right-side-up T's are markers. If you have two in a row, the T's are superimposed, so you can never see how many you really have. To avoid this, some folks make a point of separating markers by at least one printable char, so you may get something like this: MyT HeTadTinTgT Conditional text markers display like any other marker type. The upside-down T's are *anchors*, like for a ship. ;-) They appear where you have inserted a table or an anchored frame; the table or image itself may well be elsewhere on the page, or even on the next page. But if you select the anchor, you'll see the corresponding table or image selected. Anchors overlap like markers, so you may want to use the same trick as for markers to keep them separated. The reason they overlap, BTW, is because Frame needs to keep the line breaks and positioning accurate to the printed doc; if the markers and anchors took up space, the rendering would be thrown off. HTH! -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc. http://www.omsys.com/
