Re: [Freedos-devel] Update on website usability test

[Mark Olesen]

Jim,

I want to thank you for taking the work of Pat and carrying it on. You
are not underappreciated. Especially all the developers, translators,
etc. I was not understating what you have done. I was just implying
that it is and never has been an easy to use OS for a novice. Your
bullets prove that (I read that before). Bullet number 4 (four) is
important but not for the survival of the OS. It would not attract new
users.

Platforms have changed. The compute of things has and is evolving to
abstract. Nobody is going to care what hardware is running just as
long as it can run your software --- just as FreeDOS is relying on
Emulators; very few bare metal systems.

FreeDOS might be embedded on a SOc to deploy firmware. However, the
future of it for gaming is bleak. Nobody teaches this stuff anymore.

On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 8:51 PM Jim Hall  wrote:
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 8:37 PM Mark Olesen  wrote:
> >
> > Just to chime in. Technically, FreeDOS is not for the novice. I
> > wouldn't expect my wife or daughter to be able to install it and then
> > figure out what to do with a prompt.
> >
> > Therefore, I suggest you try and understand your user base and gear it
> > towards those individuals instead of trying to make it appear (mask)
> > as a user friendly OS.
> >
>
>
> As a reminder, we conducted a user survey in 2021 to understand who
> was using FreeDOS today. Quoting from the end of the survey page on
> the wiki: (data is at the top of the page)
>
>
> http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Survey/2021
>
> [..]
> > 4. What is your level of DOS experience?
> >
> > Not surprising to me, since I get a lot of emails from folks who clearly
> > are experiencing DOS for the first time.
> >
> > I can see three "plateaus" in this chart: "beginner user" (6% are 1-3)
> > "some experience" (25% are 4-6) and "more experienced" (68% are 7-10).
> >
> > My big takeaways from this survey are:
> >
> > (1) Most people use FreeDOS in 2021 for playing DOS games, running other
> > DOS apps (work or home), writing new DOS programs, and doing some kind of
> > "system" work (updating BIOS, testing systems, recovering systems).
> >
> > (2) A lot of people boot FreeDOS in a virtual machine, but there's a
> > sizeable community of folks who run FreeDOS on actual hardware (such as
> > "classic" collectors with XT/AT/'386/etc, and people running on post-2000
> > PC hardware).
> >
> > (3) Most (all?) who boot FreeDOS in a virtual machine are probably
> > running a "FreeDOS-dedicated" virtual machine. If you're running FreeDOS
> > on physical hardware, I'd guess you're probably dual-booting.
> >
> > (4) Most of the people who use FreeDOS are more experienced, but we
> > shouldn't forget the "beginner" users or those with "some experience."
>
>
> I mentioned in another thread when I first talked about the website
> update that one of the reasons for the website refresh was to "head
> off" some of the emails I get from new users asking for help. For
> example, "I downloaded FreeDOS, how do I use it" or "can I run FreeDOS
> on my Raspberry Pi" or "what do I type" or "what can I do with
> FreeDOS." These folks have never used DOS before, but somehow found
> out about FreeDOS and want to try it out. My guess is they discovered
> FreeDOS by reading an article about it (I sometimes write about
> FreeDOS for Opensource.com or other places) and/or are university
> students learning about operating systems.
>
> My goal with the website refresh has been to first come up with a
> design that works well for these "some experience" users, and that
> also benefits the "expert" users. For the mock-up website that went to
> usability testing, I thought the design was balanced for intermediate
> and expert, with more help for intermediate users, with the assumption
> that more expert users could get the rest of the way.
>
> Jim
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Update on website usability test

[Mark Olesen]

Just to chime in. Technically, FreeDOS is not for the novice. I
wouldn't expect my wife or daughter to be able to install it and then
figure out what to do with a prompt.

Therefore, I suggest you try and understand your user base and gear it
towards those individuals instead of trying to make it appear (mask)
as a user friendly OS.


On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 3:27 PM Jim Hall  wrote:
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 3:14 PM tom ehlert  wrote:
> >
> > > 1. Browse the website to find where to download FreeDOS
> >
> > that's absolutely impressing.
> >
> > your testing goal is to 'download freedos' and you put a link to 'download
> > freedos' on the first visible screen.
> >
> > as I understand, the result was less then 100%.
> >
> > have you tested this with people, or with chimpanses?
> >[..]
>
> Tom, can you please not insult others? Your "chimpanzees" comment here
> is intentionally insulting to testers. You can do better.
>
> It is enlightening what people click on during a usability test. In
> the one usability test I observed, the tester clicked on the "Download
> FreeDOS" link on the front page, which was correct. But on the
> "Download" page, they seemed overwhelmed with the options (LiveCD,
> LegacyCD, BonusCD, LiteUSB, FullUSB, floppy-only) so they skipped
> ahead to the yellow box that mentioned how most people run FreeDOS in
> a virtual machine. That box has links to different virtual machines,
> and icons for each operating system that the VM runs on (for example:
> VirtualBox runs on Windows, Mac, and Linux). And the tester I observed
> said "well, I run a Mac, so I'll click on VirtualBox."
>
> This kind of feedback helps improve the website.
>
>
> Jim
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Lost in translation

[Mark Olesen]

Is it not possible to create maco wrappers around the new api to
retain compatibility with the old? Sorry for my ignorance, I never
used FD-NLS libraries. I would think it should be seamless and
transparent. For me, the biggest change would be migrating data files.

On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 11:11 AM Jerome Shidel  wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> > On Mar 21, 2022, at 1:27 PM, Mark Olesen  wrote:
> >
> > https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/
> >
> > Port then migrate your current translations to PO format
>
> That’s not going to happen. We can’t even find enough people to fix some 
> minor years-old bugs. Expecting someone to rewrite all of the programs, to 
> use a more complicated PO format as opposed to the native application NLS 
> format, will probably never happen.
>
> However assuming you read my entire previous post, you would have seen that I 
> do refer to PO files. When FD-NLS Desktop is finished, the underlaying code 
> could port the probably dozen or so different native formats to and from PO. 
> But at that point, you might as well use the application. It would probably 
> provide a better experience translating for DOS programs than the generic PO 
> based translations sites.
>
> :-)
>
> Jerome
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Lost in translation

[Mark Olesen]

https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/

Port then migrate your current translations to PO format

On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 4:56 AM Jerome Shidel  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> As many of you are probably already aware, a while back I started 
> coordinating language translations for FreeDOS and related projects over on 
> GitHub in the FD-NLS project[1]. The translators that have been contributing 
> do a great job. But with all the various formats and methods used by the 
> individual projects, there are often difficulties providing some of the 
> translation needs.
>
> It is a fairly large and complex problem. It has numerous interwoven 
> complications and issues to consider. But, providing translations for FreeDOS 
> is going to be getting a whole lot easier. Since the release of FreeDOS 1.3 
> final, I’ve begun to tackle the problem.
>
> The first step in process was to provide a easier way to translate the 
> package descriptions. The package descriptions are the information provided 
> about the package in programs like FDIMPLES and websites like the Official 
> online repository.
>
> Translating those was done through a large CSV spreadsheet. Although better 
> than previous methods, it was easy to make mistakes while editing the 
> extremely wide spread sheet. It required conversion to and from UTF-8 to 
> codepage formats. Often programs would manage to not properly format the 
> columns or mangle the codepage versions. It was a "hope for the best” then 
> “fix what is broken” system.
>
> Well, step 1 is nearly complete. The macOS version[2] (my primary development 
> system) of the cross-platform desktop application works great. There are a 
> couple minor FPC/Lazarus UI framework issues possibly related to the slightly 
> different compiler/IDE versions that will require me to implement 
> work-arounds. But, the Linux and Windows versions should be out over the next 
> day or so. The macOS version[2] is available now. And for anyone who is 
> curious, a screen shot[3] of package description editing is provided on the 
> download page.
>
> Step 1 required a lot of “under the hood” stuff. But, it provides a means to 
> easily edit the package description translations. It has automatic 
> UTF-8/Codepage conversion. It even includes a live simulated preview of how 
> the translation will appear in FDIMPLES using DOS codepages and fonts.
>
> Step 2 will involve translation support for the projects themselves. It will 
> be a long process with many substeps. But, the end goal will include live 
> previews for the different types and formats of translations with sample 
> data. Just to name a few, Kitten based programs, Source code based, Html 
> based, and many more. It won’t be done overnight. But, in many small steps 
> and stages.
>
> On a side note, all the nitty-gritty stuff that deals with the FD-NLS 
> repository, translation files, codepage/UTF-8 conversion, etc. is being done 
> separately from the UI code through an “API”. That makes it a little more 
> time consuming to create the Desktop app. But, it eventually would make it 
> easier to port versions to mobile platforms. It would also make it possible 
> to create some command-line utilities to deal with all the various needs. It 
> could even possibly permit switching to modern translation systems like PO 
> files.
>
> To contribute translations using the FD-NLS Desktop app, it is very easy. You 
> head over to the FD-NLS project[1] and clone/download the whole thing to your 
> hard drive somewhere. Run the FD-NLS app and point it at that repository. If 
> the language you want to create  translations for is not yet created, add 
> settings for it and possibly create a codepage map (all in app stuff, and 
> fairly easy). Then have fun translating.
>
> When satisfied, push your changes to the GitHub repository and we can merge 
> them. If you created a new language profile or codepage map, be sure to 
> include that in your commit. Eventually, the handling of the git repo related 
> aspects will be integrated into the application as well.
>
> Anyway, once I work-around the cross-platform issues for Linux and Windows, 
> I’ll post an update.
>
> :-)
>
> Jerome
>
> [1] https://github.com/shidel/fd-nls
> [2] https://up.lod.bz/FDNLS_OSX
> [3] https://dnld.lod.bz/FDNLS_OSX-001.png
>
>
>
>
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[Freedos-devel] standard directories

[Mark Olesen]

Does FreeDos have standard directories for development then production
libraries and headers?


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Sea Code by the C Shore

[Mark Olesen]

are you familiar with it? The file can be embedded straight into C
code. Once the xpm file is created you can translate it into other
data structures of a specific language. Therefore, there is no need to
support a variety of image formats. XPM externally -> transform bitmap
internally to whatever

Just an idea, not sure if that is exactly what you are looking for?

On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 7:52 AM Jerome Shidel  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 8, 2022, at 8:50 AM, Mark Olesen  wrote:
> >
> > Have you ever considered using xpm file format?
>
> Not specifically.
>
> At present, it has full support for simple bitmap raster fonts like those in 
> the GNUFONTS package. Danger Engine native formats like fonts (current max 
> 32x32), Graphics (IGG) and  Sprites (IGS). Limited support for BMPs (Win 3.x 
> level of complexity). Exports Nasm and Pascal Code for images.
>
> Maybe someday, add full PCX and basic ICO. GIF. Maybe add exporting PNG, TIFF 
> and GIF. That would be all the major DOS graphics formats.
>
> Depending on their complexity, I’m open to other formats.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Sea Code by the C Shore

[Mark Olesen]

Have you ever considered using xpm file format?

On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 4:15 AM Jerome Shidel  wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I’m not really much of a C (pick your flavor) user. Mostly I work in 
> Assembly, Pascal and other languages. However as I’m well aware, C is very 
> popular for development in FreeDOS. So, I have a favor to ask of one of the C 
> gurus.
>
> One of the programs that I’ve made recently is a pixel editor. It is geared 
> towards development and is simply called ImgEdit. It is primarily for 
> creating and editing graphical assets for programs running on top of my 
> “Danger Engine” game/application framework. It can export images to several 
> file formats. Being geared towards development, it can also export those 
> images to a Pascal Unit and NASM include as well as BMP and it’s native 
> graphics IGG format.
>
> To make the editor more useful, I would like to add export capability for any 
> generic version of C as well.
>
> Bellow is the output of a simple 16x16 white hollow square to source code as 
> NASM include and Pascal Unit. At present, the NASM version includes a 
> additional simplified Run Line Encoded version (DRE-Data Run Encoding) of the 
> image that is not in the Pascal version. And, the Pascal version includes 
> some structured variable that wouldn’t be very useful in assembly. Both also 
> include a palette map. Also, both structured in a way to not increase 
> compiled size for unused data. In NASM, that is done with the use of 
> macros/defines. In Pascal, the compiler just optimizes the extra stuff out.
>
> If one of you could create a C version that hopefully does not require a 
> specific version of C from the code bellow, I’ll examine it and add an 
> appropriate export filter to match. I could probably do it without 
> assistance. But, it is likely to result in something sub-optimal.
>
> :-)
>
> Jerome
>
> ——
> NASM include version: DEMO_IMG.INC
> ——
> ; Nasm 2.x compatible raw graphic image include
> ; auto-created by Danger Engine
>
> %define IMAGE_DEMO_IMG_BYTES  0x0100; 256 bytes
> %define IMAGE_DEMO_IMG_WIDTH  0x0010; 16 pixels
> %define IMAGE_DEMO_IMG_HEIGHT 0x0010; 16 pixels
>
> %macro IMAGE_DEMO_IMG_DATA 0
> db 0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F
> db 0x0F,0x0F,0x0F   ; > 0
> db 0x0F,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00
> db 0x00,0x00,0x0F   ; 
> 1
> db 0x0F,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00
> db 0x00,0x00,0x0F   ; 
> 2
> db 0x0F,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00
> db 0x00,0x00,0x0F   ; 
> 3
> db 0x0F,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00
> db 0x00,0x00,0x0F   ; 
> 4
> db 0x0F,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00
> db 0x00,0x00,0x0F   ; 
> 5
> db 0x0F,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00
> db 0x00,0x00,0x0F   ; 
> 6
> db 0x0F,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00
> db 0x00,0x00,0x0F   ; 
> 7
> db 0x0F,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00
> db 0x00,0x00,0x0F   ; 
> 8
> db 0x0F,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00
> db 0x00,0x00,0x0F   ; 
> 9
> db 0x0F,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00
> db 0x00,0x00,0x0F   ; 
> 10
> db 0x0F,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00
> db 0x00,0x00,0x0F   ; 
> 11
> db 0x0F,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00
> db 0x00,0x00,0x0F   ; 
> 12
> db 0x0F,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00
> db 0x00,0x00,0x0F   ; 
> 13
> db 0x0F,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00
> db 0x00,0x00,0x0F   ; 
> 14
> db 0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F,0x0F
> db 0x0F,0x0F,0x0F   ; 
> 15
> %endmacro ; IMAGE_DEMO_IMG_DATA
>
> %macro IMAGE_DEMO_IMG_RGB 0
> ; RGB Palette Values 

Re: [Freedos-devel] The FreeDOS Orphanage

[Mark Olesen]

A centralized location is very serious to me as a developer. Actually,
I bought an MS-DOS 7.1 disk on ebay because things kept moving too
much in FreeDOS. It's not stable at all.

On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 5:55 PM Jerome Shidel  wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> This a heads up notification. (Mostly)
>
> With the inclusion of every package that is provided with FreeDOS and for  
> some additional reasons, the FreeDOS Orphanage has moved and been renamed.
>
> It could be called FreeDOS on GitLab, FreeDOS Projects or just plan FreeDOS, 
> I went with the FreeDOS Archive.
>
> That part is just the group title and can be changed easily. Anyhow, it is 
> now located at https://gitlab.com/FreeDOS
>
> When referring to all the different repositories, to avoid confusion (at 
> least to/for me), I refer to them as follows:
>
> The Official Software Repository, 
> https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/repositories/latest/pkg-html/
> The FreeDOS Archive, https://gitlab.com/FreeDOS
> The FreeDOS Mirrors, https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/
> The FreeDOS Website, https://www.freedos.org
>
> My Unofficial Software Repository, https://fd.lod.bz/repos/current/pkg-html/
> My FreeDOS Related Server, https://fd.lod.bz
>
> But, that’s just me. I’m not trying to force using those terms on anyone. 
> It’s just how I think about them.
>
> Ever wonder what my https://lod.bz domain stands for? I has nothing to do 
> with Belize or a Business like other .BZ domains. It was re-defined a while 
> back to it’s current “Linux OverDrive Beta Zone” name. But, originally, it 
> stood for something completely different. Maybe I’ll say what it started out 
> as, maybe I won’t.
>
> :-)
>
> Jerome
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Does FreeDOS (or something) sometime automatically break up an hard disk in 2GB sub-disks?

[Mark Olesen]

it's 2021?

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 4:50 PM Paul Dufresne via Freedos-devel
 wrote:
>
>  Le ven., 24 sept. 2021 13:22:11 -0400 Eric Auer  
> écrit 
>
>  >
>  > Hi Jerome,
>  >
>  > > If ... there are no partitions on the target hard drive,
>  > > it tells fdisk to automatically partition the drive...
>  >
>  > > If there is a command line option to perform automatic
>  > > partitioning using a single big partition, I am unaware of it.
>  >
>  > If FDISK defaults to making 1000 partitions of 2 GB each
>  > when you have a 2 TB drive, that is utterly useless. MOST
>  > users will have FAR more than 60 GB disk size and you can
>  > have only 24 drive letters from C: to Z:
>  >
>  > This makes FreeDOS look ridiculously 1980s, sorry. Any
>  > workarounds possible?
>  >
>  > Regards, Eric
>
> Well... looks like we are using indeed 1980 technology in 2021.
>
> The FDISK docs says that /AUTO disk partition the disk with FAT16 partitions.
> https://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/fdisk.htm
>
> We know FAT16 bigger partition size is 2GB:
> https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/370180/why-can-fat16-not-store-more-than-2-gb
>
> We probably don't want to break current /AUTO for people using it to do 2 GB 
> partitions... [supposing such persons exist]
>
> Then we probably need a new option (/AUTOFAT32 ?) that would partition in ... 
> well... ideally would find the minimum of "full disk"
> and BIOS maximum supported size according to bits in LBA... I suppose.
>
> ... or much more simply... force user to format manually and never autoformat 
> the disk?
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] DOjS - Javascript for DOS

[Mark Olesen]

no

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 5:29 PM Jim Hall  wrote:
>
> I shared this as a news item on the website, a few weeks ago, but I
> don't think the developer announced it on freedos-devel. (I saw it on
> Twitter and on the DOS-Aint-Dead forum.)
>
> DOjS is a Javascript programming canvas for DOS, and SuperIlu released
> a new version of DOjS.
>
> New features in this release include: + Added JPEG loading through
> jpeg module + Made JSLOG.txt optional and the filename can be changed
> as well + Added basic GIF animations loading/rendering through gifanim
> module + Improved CTRL-DEL, CTRL-BS handling with whitespaces + Added
> different blend modes which are selected through TransparencyEnabled()
> + Added QR-Code generator + Fixed/added some examples.
>
> This version also includes a FreeDOS distribution ZIP. You can find
> the new release at DOjS GitHub.
>
> We have also mirrored it on the FreeDOS Files Archive at Ibiblio,
> under /devel/js/dojs
>
>
>
> Links:
>
> GitHub: https://github.com/SuperIlu/DOjS/releases
>
> Ibiblio: 
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/devel/js/dojs/
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Allegro library would need to be recompiled with -fgnu89-inline ?

[Mark Olesen]

This is how I do it with DJGPP on FreeDOS

https://github.com/markjolesen/fltkal/blob/master/doc/build.md#allegro-4

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 3:51 PM Paul Dufresne via Freedos-devel
 wrote:
>
>  Le sam., 26 juin 2021 18:20:36 -0400 Paul Dufresne  
> I wrote 
> >I now think that adding "external" before declarations in .h is the correct 
> >solution.
>
> >If they were not mark static already, it is that the value is expected to be 
> >shared (being global).
> >The solution is *I now think* to add external, and have the real declaration 
> >in a unique place, like in main.c.
>
>
> I can now confirm this is a change in GCC 10 ( from 
> https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-10/changes.html ):
> "GCC now defaults to -fno-common. As a result, global variable accesses are 
> more efficient on various targets. In C, global variables with multiple 
> tentative definitions now result in linker errors. With -fcommon such 
> definitions are silently merged during linking."
>
> More details in:
> https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-10/porting_to.html#common
>
> I am now realizing it can be tedious to rearrage the code to initialize stuff 
> only once.
> -fcommon could allows us to do the bad thing for some time
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Package Survey

[Mark Olesen]

I got about half way and then let the rest be defaults. I like how you
separated it into categories. It would be wizard to have a  button on each
col that selects/deselects everything in that category.

I did not realize how big FreeDOS can be. It looks like some categories
would need to be split into volumes.

Nice job putting it together Jerome. Well Done.

On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 5:39 PM Jerome Shidel  wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
> Recently, there has been a lot of discussion regarding packages.
>
> What packages are installed for FreeDOS BASE and FULL?
> What packages should be made readily available when booting the LiveCD?
> What limited set of packages should be provided by the Floppy Only Distro?
>
> So, I put together a simple survey and hope to have some worthwhile data
> to
> share at the next online conference call.
>
> https://fd.lod.bz/survey
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Jerome
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Fw: FYI: FreeType going forward looses 8.3 naming conventions

[Mark Olesen]

Truncating the filename is what I did to get FreeType to build with
OpenWatcom and it compiled fine. I suspect I would run into your issue with
LFN loaded though because I did not truncate the names in the Makefiles or
single source files (c files that include all the other source files).

LFN is not an option.


On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:26 AM TK Chia  wrote:

> Hello Mark Olesen, hello Samuel V.,
>
> >
> https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.2/repos/pkg-html/doslfn.html
> > Just run DOSLFN.COM whenever you want to access with long file name
> paths.> DJGPP 2 seems to support LFN.
> This ties in with a problem which I have been facing with my gcc-ia16
> toolchain --- and which I have not really found a good way to solve.  In
> the gcc-ia16 FreeDOS packages, I currently truncate file names to 8.3.
> But then gcc-ia16 reportedly fails if DOSLFN _is_ loaded
> (https://github.com/tkchia/build-ia16/issues/5).
>
> Thank you!
>
> --
> https://github.com/tkchia
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FYI: FreeType going forward looses 8.3 naming conventions

[Mark Olesen]

seriously tom, I am not talking about the whole world. FreeType has always
followed those conventions up until recently. The good thing is, he is
telling us that they will still make the first 8 characters unique --- no
coillisions. That is quite cool.

On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 2:50 PM tom ehlert  wrote:

> Hallo Herr Mark Olesen,
>
> am Freitag, 20. November 2020 um 21:30 schrieben Sie:
>
> > https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?59489
>
>
> > Anyone interested?
>
>
> do you REALLY think that 8.3 filename limitations should be applied to
> the whole world FOREVER?
>
> Tom
>
>
>
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[Freedos-devel] FYI: FreeType going forward looses 8.3 naming conventions

[Mark Olesen]

https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?59489

Anyone interested?
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Simplifying FreeDOS

[Mark Olesen]

DOS Chromebook? I do not believe FreeDOS could compete with the latest
web browser technologies. It is an interesting concept though.I
believe an attempt was made to Resurrect Amiga with a working machine
and desktop sometime ago.

FreeDOS is fun stuff for sure. Every once in a while, I enjoy
tinkering around with it and sometimes programming in that
environment.

OpenBSD is not polished like Ubuntu and such. Lots of troubleshooting
and configuring. X and wireless are the most difficult ones for my
laptop. I went for it because it is not very political. The developers
are typically quiet and just go about their business.

By the way, I have an older laptop that runs Gentoo. I use it mostly
to Skype my 12 year old daughter. Other than that, I used to be a big
fan of Fedora until the big blue bought them out. I suppose today, if
I wanted something my kid could use, I would use OpenSuSE.

On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 10:22 AM Rugxulo  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 8:10 AM Mark Olesen  wrote:
> >
> > That sounds fantastic. It is unfortunate development was abandoned.
> > Having multiple choices seems like a good idea.
>
> TinyCore Linux also has a "Core" (11 MB) "base system which provides
> only a command line interface".
>
> The biggest problem is probably non-free / non-redistributable
> firmware, not the actual wireless drivers. (My ancient Dell laptop has
> BCM4312, which is a minor pain to get working.)
>
> > Q: Does anyone know if DELL still uses FreeDOS for firmware and BIOS
> > updates? Or maybe they used to ship a computer with FreeDOS as the
> > primary OS?
> >
> > At one point, I know they did. I have not kept up with the times,
> > however. I would imagine it would be very lite?
>
> I know almost nothing, but the only link I can think of is this one:
>
> * 
> https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/sln171755/update-the-dell-bios-in-a-linux-or-ubuntu-environment?lang=en#updatebios2015
>
> But keep in mind that BIOS/CSM is effectively dead:
>
> * 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface#CSM_booting
>
> "In November 2017, Intel announced that it planned to phase out
> support for CSM by 2020."
>
> I don't know the exact rationale. It may be to remove support burdens,
> reduce costs, speed up booting times, or just drop unnecessary legacy.
> Actually, I half got the impression it was for power management /
> battery life reasons. But it could also be for security (secure
> boot?).
>
> (Windows is still 80% marketshare, everything else considered relevant
> is "POSIX" [usually Linux]. Hence nobody majorly needs BIOS/CSM
> anymore, AFAIK.)
>
> > I have an OpenBSD Lenovo A485 laptop rig. Since I do not run Windows,
> > they provided a bootable ISO. I have no idea what they are using?
>
> IIRC, FreeBSD has the best hardware support out of all the *BSD
> family. The big differences with OpenBSD are that they refuse NDAs,
> insist on building atop actual hardware, support various sentimental
> machines, and also have a monolithic kernel with no separate modules.
> (Corrections welcome, I could be wrong.) Apparently 6.8 was just
> released last month for their 25th anniversary. (I've only, very
> barely, tried earlier versions under VM.) Then again, I was surprised
> (a few years ago) that FreeBSD was still supporting ancient ARMv6
> (early RaspPi??), but even there, the only Tier One platforms are
> AMD64 and i386 (with various others under Tier Two). Even most Linux
> distributions (e.g. Ubuntu) have dropped i386 support.
>
> There are many full Linux laptops for sale these days. I'm looking to
> buy one myself soon. This Dell Chromebook isn't too shabby either. (We
> really need a DOS Chromebook. Obviously it won't have Chrome. Or at
> least something that can run QEMU. This one does [Linux "beta",
> cmdline only, optional], but I don't think it allows switching OS
> images, probably for security reasons.)
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Simplifying FreeDOS

[Mark Olesen]

That sounds fantastic. It is unfortunate development was abandoned.
Having multiple choices seems like a good idea.

Q: Does anyone know if DELL still uses FreeDOS for firmware and BIOS
updates? Or maybe they used to ship a computer with FreeDOS as the
primary OS?

At one point, I know they did. I have not kept up with the times,
however. I would imagine it would be very lite?

I have an OpenBSD Lenovo A485 laptop rig. Since I do not run Windows,
they provided a bootable ISO. I have no idea what they are using?

On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 6:54 AM Rugxulo  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 2:24 PM Mark Olesen  wrote:
> >
> > Great idea. I like minimalism. However, I don't think networking
> > drivers are up to snuff to completely automate the process.
>
> This has already (unofficially) been done.
>
> * 
> https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/unofficial/metados/
>
> But it still needs cleaning up (and some things haven't been properly
> vetted, e.g. Curl, which is not included by default).
>
> But it does have two packet drivers that work with (old and new) QEMU
> and VirtualBox. These are also used by the FDNET package, but Jim
> seems almost uninterested in that.
>
> N.B. Even Trisquel GNU/Linux has a "net install" (only 42 MB!) .ISO
> download. Perhaps trying or recommending such things from Linux would
> be wiser as a starting point since they have much better hardware
> (e.g. network) support.
>
>
> > On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 1:46 PM Chelson a  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Why not have a simple floppy that can install the system via internet 
> > > connection?
> > >
> > > Base cd, extras cd and boot disk with internet install?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, 8 Nov 2020 at 05:37, Mark Olesen  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Why not have a minimal install iso.  Then have separate additions iso
> > >> for each category? Could the install handle that?
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Simplifying FreeDOS

[Mark Olesen]

Great idea. I like minimalism. However, I don't think networking
drivers are up to snuff to completely automate the process.

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 1:46 PM Chelson a  wrote:
>
> Why not have a simple floppy that can install the system via internet 
> connection?
>
> Base cd, extras cd and boot disk with internet install?
>
>
>
> On Sun, 8 Nov 2020 at 05:37, Mark Olesen  wrote:
>>
>> Why not have a minimal install iso.  Then have separate additions iso
>> for each category? Could the install handle that?
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 2:39 PM Jim Hall  wrote:
>> >
>> > Some of us had this conversation a while back and I wanted to bring it up 
>> > again on the list.
>> >
>> > MS-DOS was a small operating system. MS_DOS 5 and 6 fit on a few 1.44MB 
>> > floppy disks.
>> >
>> > We always intended FreeDOS to not just replace but enhance DOS. FreeDOS is 
>> > "MS-DOS plus more." To make clear what's part of the "core" of FreeDOS, we 
>> > have the "Base" package group. These packages replicate the behavior and 
>> > functionality of MS-DOS. But we also have a lot of other packages that add 
>> > new functionality to FreeDOS, and we put these programs in other package 
>> > groups like "Editors" (additional editors) and "Devel" (compilers, 
>> > assemblers, and other development tools).
>> >
>> > Over time, FreeDOS has grown to include lots of interesting programs. The 
>> > FreeDOS 1.2 and 1.3RCx distributions are very big.
>> >
>> > As we look to the next FreeDOS 1.3 Release Candidate, I think we should 
>> > consider removing some packages from the FreeDOS distribution.
>> >
>> > To be clear: I am not suggesting deleting packages or programs from the 
>> > FreeDOS archive at ibiblio. There's lots of useful and interesting 
>> > programs there. But I don't think we need to include everything in the 
>> > FreeDOS distribution.
>> >
>> > Here are my thoughts from the FreeDOS 1.3 package list (wiki)
>> >
>> > Base
>> > Keep everything
>> >
>> > Archivers
>> > Do we really need all of those archivers? For example, who needs Zoo these 
>> > days? My suggestions:
>> > 1. Move bz2, gzip, and tar to the "Unix" group - these are replicas of 
>> > Unix tools
>> > 2. Keep zip, unzip, p7zip
>> > 3. Remove the other packages: 7zdec, arj, cabext, lpq1, lzip, lzma, lzop, 
>> > zoo
>> >
>> > *Note that p7zip can unpack a ton of other file formats, so we don't need 
>> > these other archivers anyway.
>> >
>> > Boot Tools
>> > *I don't have any strong feelings here. What are your thoughts?
>> >
>> > Development
>> > Can we pare down the list a bit? We have a lot of packages here, but I 
>> > don't think we need them all. For example, we should include the tools we 
>> > know we'll need to compile the different FreeDOS utilities. I'd also like 
>> > to keep the GCC related packages, and other packages that remain popular. 
>> > My suggestions:
>> > 1. Move perl to the "Unix" group
>> > 2. Keep BWBasic, the DJGPP packages, FASM, the FBC packages (FreeBASIC 
>> > Compiler) fpc (FreePascal compiler), the GCC-IA16 packages, JWASM, NASM, 
>> > OW (OpenWatcom C Compiler), and UPX
>> > 3. Remove bcc (Bruce's C Compiler), euphoria, insight, lua, regina, runtime
>> >
>> > *I think I missed some packages in that list. I don't have a good opinion 
>> > on those. What do you think?
>> >
>> > Editors
>> > Not sure about these. I know there are a few here I'd like to keep:
>> > Blocek, Elvis, FED, Freemacs, MSEDIT, pico, Vim
>> >
>> > *I don't have a good opinion on the other editors in the list. Which ones 
>> > do you think need to stay?
>> >
>> > Emulators
>> > I don't think that these are useful to include in the full distribution. 
>> > These all fall in the general category of "games," anyway. I'd recommend 
>> > we eliminate the entire "Emulators" package group.
>> >
>> > Games
>> > I generally feel that we can add and remove games in the FreeDOS 
>> > distribution on a whim. If a game is interesting and open source, we can 
>> > include it. When a game stops being interesting, or doesn't interest a lot 
>> > of people, we can remove it.
>> >
>> > *I really enjoy Wing and a

Re: [Freedos-devel] Simplifying FreeDOS

[Mark Olesen]

Why not have a minimal install iso.  Then have separate additions iso
for each category? Could the install handle that?

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 2:39 PM Jim Hall  wrote:
>
> Some of us had this conversation a while back and I wanted to bring it up 
> again on the list.
>
> MS-DOS was a small operating system. MS_DOS 5 and 6 fit on a few 1.44MB 
> floppy disks.
>
> We always intended FreeDOS to not just replace but enhance DOS. FreeDOS is 
> "MS-DOS plus more." To make clear what's part of the "core" of FreeDOS, we 
> have the "Base" package group. These packages replicate the behavior and 
> functionality of MS-DOS. But we also have a lot of other packages that add 
> new functionality to FreeDOS, and we put these programs in other package 
> groups like "Editors" (additional editors) and "Devel" (compilers, 
> assemblers, and other development tools).
>
> Over time, FreeDOS has grown to include lots of interesting programs. The 
> FreeDOS 1.2 and 1.3RCx distributions are very big.
>
> As we look to the next FreeDOS 1.3 Release Candidate, I think we should 
> consider removing some packages from the FreeDOS distribution.
>
> To be clear: I am not suggesting deleting packages or programs from the 
> FreeDOS archive at ibiblio. There's lots of useful and interesting programs 
> there. But I don't think we need to include everything in the FreeDOS 
> distribution.
>
> Here are my thoughts from the FreeDOS 1.3 package list (wiki)
>
> Base
> Keep everything
>
> Archivers
> Do we really need all of those archivers? For example, who needs Zoo these 
> days? My suggestions:
> 1. Move bz2, gzip, and tar to the "Unix" group - these are replicas of Unix 
> tools
> 2. Keep zip, unzip, p7zip
> 3. Remove the other packages: 7zdec, arj, cabext, lpq1, lzip, lzma, lzop, zoo
>
> *Note that p7zip can unpack a ton of other file formats, so we don't need 
> these other archivers anyway.
>
> Boot Tools
> *I don't have any strong feelings here. What are your thoughts?
>
> Development
> Can we pare down the list a bit? We have a lot of packages here, but I don't 
> think we need them all. For example, we should include the tools we know 
> we'll need to compile the different FreeDOS utilities. I'd also like to keep 
> the GCC related packages, and other packages that remain popular. My 
> suggestions:
> 1. Move perl to the "Unix" group
> 2. Keep BWBasic, the DJGPP packages, FASM, the FBC packages (FreeBASIC 
> Compiler) fpc (FreePascal compiler), the GCC-IA16 packages, JWASM, NASM, OW 
> (OpenWatcom C Compiler), and UPX
> 3. Remove bcc (Bruce's C Compiler), euphoria, insight, lua, regina, runtime
>
> *I think I missed some packages in that list. I don't have a good opinion on 
> those. What do you think?
>
> Editors
> Not sure about these. I know there are a few here I'd like to keep:
> Blocek, Elvis, FED, Freemacs, MSEDIT, pico, Vim
>
> *I don't have a good opinion on the other editors in the list. Which ones do 
> you think need to stay?
>
> Emulators
> I don't think that these are useful to include in the full distribution. 
> These all fall in the general category of "games," anyway. I'd recommend we 
> eliminate the entire "Emulators" package group.
>
> Games
> I generally feel that we can add and remove games in the FreeDOS distribution 
> on a whim. If a game is interesting and open source, we can include it. When 
> a game stops being interesting, or doesn't interest a lot of people, we can 
> remove it.
>
> *I really enjoy Wing and a few others. I don't have strong opinions on the 
> other games. What are your thoughts?
>
> Graphical Desktop
> We added GUIs a long time ago when people were still doing active development 
> on OpenGEM, oZone, and Seal. If you've been part of the discussion for a long 
> time, you also remember we included a few other graphical menus and things 
> that have since fallen out of the distribution. I think it's time to look at 
> these GUIs too. My recommendations:
> 1. PC-GEOS was released as open source software. I haven't followed it, but 
> last I checked, they weren't able to compile it (missing libraries, I think - 
> requires some rewrites?) If they can get this to compile, I think we can 
> include it. If they still can't compile it, then do not include it.
> 2. Remove SEAL and oZone. These haven't been worked on for a long time, and 
> they are still incomplete
> 3. Keep OpenGEM. It's not under active development, but it's currently pretty 
> solid, if plain looking
>
> Networking
> I don't run FreeDOS with a network, so I don't have any opinions on these 
> packages. What do you think?
>
> Sound
> I know OpenCP and MPlayer both work fine, because I demo'd them in a YouTube 
> video. I don't have any opinions otherwise.
>
> Unix
> The wiki page lists a few packages to remove based on duplicates or license 
> concerns.
> 1. Move bz2, gzip, and tar from "Archivers" to "Unix"
> 2. Move perl from "Devel" to "Unix"
>
> Utilities
> We have a mix of things in this package group. I think 

Re: [Freedos-devel] Open Watcom: Install, setup, compile and link your 'first' program

[Mark Olesen]

You can can compile and link in one step using "wcl"

On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 6:39 AM Paul Dufresne via Freedos-devel
 wrote:
>
> Hi! It is said on: https://www.freedos.org/contribute/ that:
> "Port FreeDOS utilities to OpenWatcom C and NASM—our preferred C compiler and 
> Assembler for FreeDOS."
>
> I kind of just discovered the OpenWatcom C,C++ compiler yesterday, and just 
> was able to compile and link my first program this morning.
>
> Since it was a little harder than other compilers, I would like to show how I 
> did here, for others (and maybe me later).
> I might be missing some important options... but part of my problems was that 
> I was seeing tons of options, but the essential was hard to see.
>
> I am using FreeDOS 1.3-rc3.
>
> Launch "FDIMPLES", that allows you to install packages from a list (taken 
> from a CDROM I think).
>
> Select "Development", tab, select "OW", tab, tab, Ok should be selected, 
> Enter.
> I let you get out of it after install.
>
> CD \DEVEL\OW
> owsetenv.bat
> I found it, while writing this (was explaining how I created a similar file).
> For me it write: Environment PATH not set. But it does set it.
>
> mkdir c:\myc
> c:
> cd \myc
> edit test.c
> in it:
> ---
> #include 
> int void main(){
>   printf("Hi! Hello from Open Watcom 1.9!\n");
>   return 0;
> }
> ---
> wpp test.c
> wlink FILE test.obj
> test.exe
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Kernel.asm question

[Mark Olesen]

Howdy,

Your aligning by 16 byte paragraph

On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 7:45 PM Quinton Cook  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I have recently taken an academic interest in the freedos project. My
> current goal is to understand how the kernel was implemented.
>
> While reading the kernel.asm file located
> in freedos-svn/kernel/branches/jhall/kernel I have inferred that the
> routine "kernel_start" is calculating the overall memory available to the
> system. but I came across a snippet of code that confused me. Starting on
> line 128
> it goes
>
> mov dx,init_end+15
> mov cl,4
> shr dx,cl
> sub ax,dx
>
> why is 15 added to the end of the address of the symbol init_end if you
> just shift the value right by 4, doesn't that just undo the addition? Is it
> related to memory addresses having to be divisible by 16? Segmentation or
> something like that?
>
> Also is that last sub calculating the amount of room needed for the kernel?
>
> I hope all is well and get back to me when it is convenient for you, thanks
> --
> *Quinton Cook*
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Re: [Freedos-devel] LibreSSL port to FreeDOS

[Mark Olesen]

Had sometime today to investigate the crash. The problem is that wattcp32
requires dos4g. I fixed the problem and updated the repo.

On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 9:35 PM Mark Olesen  wrote:

> LibreSSL is a work in progress. Server side will probably never be secure
> enough. Consequently, I am focusing on the client side of it. I found wget
> binary crashes, which I am investigating. I should probably remove it from
> the repo until it is fixed?
>
> I had no idea there was a copy of OpenWatcom on ibiblio. That is good to
> know. Thanks.
>
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 5:58 AM Rugxulo  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 1:11 AM Mark Olesen  wrote:
>> >
>> > OpenWatcom.com is back up. They have a message stating they are in
>> tropical storm season and they take the servers down every once in awhile.
>>
>> I'm no active member nor contributor to OpenWatcom. But, FYI,
>> hurricane season lasts roughly half a year (June through November), so
>> it's a fairly wide span of time! IIRC, August and September are
>> usually the worst.
>>
>> * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Atlantic_hurricane_season
>>
>> Also, we've mirrored their "classic" releases to iBiblio, so you
>> shouldn't (necessarily) need their website just to download OW 1.9:
>>
>> *
>> https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/devel/c/openwatcom/1.9/
>>
>> BTW, porting Wget? That'd be very impressive if you could (or did?) do
>> that successfully. I see there's a binary, but I haven't tried it.
>> Good luck!
>>
>>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] LibreSSL port to FreeDOS

[Mark Olesen]

LibreSSL is a work in progress. Server side will probably never be secure
enough. Consequently, I am focusing on the client side of it. I found wget
binary crashes, which I am investigating. I should probably remove it from
the repo until it is fixed?

I had no idea there was a copy of OpenWatcom on ibiblio. That is good to
know. Thanks.

On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 5:58 AM Rugxulo  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 1:11 AM Mark Olesen  wrote:
> >
> > OpenWatcom.com is back up. They have a message stating they are in
> tropical storm season and they take the servers down every once in awhile.
>
> I'm no active member nor contributor to OpenWatcom. But, FYI,
> hurricane season lasts roughly half a year (June through November), so
> it's a fairly wide span of time! IIRC, August and September are
> usually the worst.
>
> * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Atlantic_hurricane_season
>
> Also, we've mirrored their "classic" releases to iBiblio, so you
> shouldn't (necessarily) need their website just to download OW 1.9:
>
> *
> https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/devel/c/openwatcom/1.9/
>
> BTW, porting Wget? That'd be very impressive if you could (or did?) do
> that successfully. I see there's a binary, but I haven't tried it.
> Good luck!
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] LibreSSL port to FreeDOS

[Mark Olesen]

OpenWatcom.com is back up. They have a message stating they are in tropical
storm season and they take the servers down every once in awhile.

TK Chia thanks for the tip on V2. I am aware of it's existence.

On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 8:28 AM TK Chia  wrote:

> Hello Mark Olesen,
>
> > https://github.com/markjolesen/openbsd
> > As a side note, does anybody know what happened to OpenWatcom? I noticed
> > their site no longer exists.
>
> I am not sure what happened to the original openwatcom.org web site.
> However, there is the "V2 fork" (https://github.com/open-watcom/) which
> I have been using, and which looks quite alive and well.
>
> Thank you!
>
> --
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>
>
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[Freedos-devel] LibreSSL port to FreeDOS

[Mark Olesen]

For those that are interested, I ported LibreSSL to FreeDOS using
OpenWatcom. It can be found here:

https://github.com/markjolesen/openbsd

As a side note, does anybody know what happened to OpenWatcom? I noticed
their site no longer exists.

Happy Coding.
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS TUI Shell 0.3 have been released

[Mark Olesen]

Nice Job!

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 12:07 PM Ercan Ersoy 
wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> I have released FreeDOS TUI Shell 0.3.
>
> FreeDOS TUI Shell is DOSSHELL command. It includes a file
> manager internal application and running command internal
> application.
>
> Short changelog of FreeDOS TUI Shell 0.3:
>
> - It have been relicensed GNU GPL v2 and GNU GPL v3.
> - Source file has been splitted and change directory tree.
> - Many fixes and changes.
>
>
> GitHub link: https://github.com/ercanersoy/FreeDOS-TUI-Shell
>
> GitLab link: https://gitlab.com/ercanersoy/FreeDOS-TUI-Shell
>
>
> What do you think for FreeDOS TUI Shell?
>
>
> Best regards,
> Ercan
>
>
>
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[Freedos-devel] fltkcon pushed to git

[Mark Olesen]

I planted fltkcon an FLTK console port on github.Currently, DOS PM 32-bit
is being worked on. There is allot of work that still needs to be done.

It can be found here:

https://github.com/markjolesen/fltkcon

Please note, fltkcon is not compatible with FDOSTUI. FDOSTUI is a separate
design and different API. In addition, FDOSTUI is portable across platforms
and supports 16/32/64 bits.
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Check if VGA is available

[Mark Olesen]

I converted some of it to assembly for FDOSTUI:

http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/lh/fdostui/v1/view/head:/src/dos16/video.asm

The EGA test is:

detect_ega:

; get EGA info
; returns:
; bh video state
;   00h color mode in effect
;   01h mono mode in effect
; bl installed memory
;   00h 64K
;   01h 128K
;   02h 192K
;   03h 256K
; ch feature connector bits
; cl switch settings
mov ax, 1200h
mov bl, 10h
int 10h
cmp bh, 10h ; ? not sure if this is correct
jne detect_cga
mov ax, VIDEO_CARD_EGA
jmp detect_exit

I have a remark there but never researched it.




On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 1:35 PM, David McMackins 
wrote:

> I was replying to Jerome who is the original author of the Pascal one.
>
> I get that VGA is widely available. I'm writing a library, so I want to
> support as much as possible. My intended targets (in the order of planned
> implementation) are VGA, VESA, CGA, and EGA. I want to have contained tests
> for each of them (and separate for different VESA modes, but I already have
> a document on doing that) so that an application could list to the user all
> the supported modes for their hardware.
>
>
> Happy Hacking,
>
> David E. McMackins II
> Supporting Member, Electronic Frontier Foundation (#2296972)
> Associate Member, Free Software Foundation (#12889)
>
> www.mcmackins.org www.delwink.com
> www.eff.org www.gnu.org www.fsf.org
>
> On 2018-07-16 13:52, Eric Auer wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> The EGA check does not come back positive on my VGA machine.
>>> Is this expected?
>>>
>>
>> We suggested several: Do you mean the Pascal one suggested
>> by Mark, the PC Mag one suggested by Mateusz, or the ones
>> suggested by me? If all of them, then I would say NO, this
>> is not expected. If SOME of them, then I suggest that you
>> simply use those which work ;-)
>>
>> Also, I think it is sufficient to have a good VGA test:
>>
>> Only weird people like me still have EGA boards in some
>> dusty cardboard boxes. So you could say "either use VGA
>> or fall back to text mode" without risking much harm ;-)
>>
>> Regards, Eric
>>
>> PS: Does anybody know a computer museum? I know people with
>> way more exotic stuff who would be interested to SELL some!
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Check if VGA is available

[Mark Olesen]

https://github.com/shidel/DustyTP7/blob/master/INFO/INFO.PAS

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 9:08 AM, Mark Olesen  wrote:

> https::/gitub.com/shidel/DustyTP7/blob/master/INFO/INFO.PAS
>
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:51 AM, David McMackins 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm doing some graphics programming, and I want to support many
>> different graphics modes, but I need a way of checking to see if they
>> are available. Currently I'm working on VGA. How do I check if it's
>> available without just trying to enter graphics mode?
>>
>> Happy Hacking,
>>
>> David E. McMackins II
>> Supporting Member, Electronic Frontier Foundation (#2296972)
>> Associate Member, Free Software Foundation (#12889)
>>
>> www.mcmackins.org www.delwink.com
>> www.eff.org www.gnu.org www.fsf.org
>>
>> 
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>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Check if VGA is available

[Mark Olesen]

https::/gitub.com/shidel/DustyTP7/blob/master/INFO/INFO.PAS

On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:51 AM, David McMackins 
wrote:

> I'm doing some graphics programming, and I want to support many
> different graphics modes, but I need a way of checking to see if they
> are available. Currently I'm working on VGA. How do I check if it's
> available without just trying to enter graphics mode?
>
> Happy Hacking,
>
> David E. McMackins II
> Supporting Member, Electronic Frontier Foundation (#2296972)
> Associate Member, Free Software Foundation (#12889)
>
> www.mcmackins.org www.delwink.com
> www.eff.org www.gnu.org www.fsf.org
>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Ideas

[Mark Olesen]

You may want to rip the logic from:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/flcalc/


On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 4:16 PM, Jim Hall  wrote:

> Sort of a simplified version of GNU bc, then? I think that would be really
> interesting.
>
> I hadn't used ACALC before, but looking it up online, it's a simple
> command line calculator:
> ACALC {expression}
>
> Where {expression} is add, subtract, multiply, divide, modulo .. and
> various functions like abs(), exp(), fact(), sqrt(), sin(), cos(), tan().
> So ACALC computes the result of what you give it on the command line, and
> outputs the result. I'd suggest that {expression} be optional, so
> [expression]. If you don't give an expression, let the user type in several
> expressions.
>
> I can see a need for this kind of command line calculator. Interesting.
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 1:51 PM, Steve Nickolas  wrote:
>
>> To me, if there should be a FreeDOS calculator, it might be reasonable to
>> copy the interface of ACALC from PC DOS 7, because PC DOS 7 is basically
>> the next step past MS-DOS 6.22 (IMO).
>>
>> -uso.
>>
>>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Need help with Kitten library

[Mark Olesen]

Jim,

Out of curiosity, I downloaded kitten source, and compiled it into your
test program using openwatcom 1.9:

cd \source\kitten
wcl main.c kitten.c
set LANG=TR
set NLSPATH=\source\kitten

I did not run into any issues.

Regards,
Mark J. Olesen

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Jim Hall  wrote:

> I'm a bit embarrassed to ask about this, since I wrote the Kitten
> library. But it's been a very long time since I used Kitten, and I'm
> having trouble using Kitten in a simple program.
>
>
> Ercan asked me for help adding Kitten multi-language support to his
> DOS Coreutils. As a test, I wrote this example program:
>
>
> /* test.c */
>
> #include 
> #include "kitten.h"
>
> int
> main(int argc, char **argv)
> {
>char *s;
>kittenopen("test");
>s = kittengets(1, 1, "Hello world");
>puts(s);
>kittenclose();
> }
>
>
> And I have a separate TEST.TR file that contains a test string:
>
> 1.1:If you can read this, Kitten lookup worked
>
>
> But when I set LANG=TR and NLSPATH to the location of the TEST.TR
> file, the program only prints "Hello world".
>
> I'm using Kitten-c from
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/devel/libs/cats/
>
> I don't get any errors in compiling using OpenWatcom.
>
> Maybe someone who has used Kitten more recently than I have can spot the
> error?
>
> 
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[Freedos-devel] Fl_Preferences port help

[Mark Olesen]

I need help in deciding how to port Fl_Preferences for fltkal (port of
FLTK). Fl_Preferences is like an INI file.

You basically have two registries:

(1) Fl_Preferences::USER
   (e.g.) /home/username/fltk/vendor/application.prefs

(2) Fl_Preferences::SYSTEM
  (e.g.) /etc/fltk/vendor/application.prefs


where vendor and application are user specified.

I was thinking of making it local to each application:

  USER: path_of_exe/fltk/user/vendor/application.prefs
  SYSTEM: path_of_exe/fltk/system/vendor/application.prefs

Or making it global:

  drive_letter_of_exe:/config/fltk/...

Any suggestions. Thanks in advance.
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Re: [Freedos-devel] fltkal a DOS fork of FLTK using Allegro and DJGPP

[Mark Olesen]

Again, this is a fork of FLTK to native DOS. Georg's port emulates a window
manager such as Windows or X11. It does not contain native FLTK drivers for
DOS.

On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 10:35 AM, Mateusz Viste 
wrote:

> On Wed, 07 Feb 2018 18:28:12 +0100, Matej Horvat wrote:
> > Georg's port has a couple of rough edges. It wastes power when idle (no
> > INT 28h calls) and for me it always crashed when opening file choice
> > dialogs (but not in NTVDM). Open Watcom support would be welcome as
> > well.
>
> On the other hand, it might be easier/faster/more efficient to patch
> Georg's port instead of reinventing it from scratch. Anyway, I'm not
> criticizing, just pointing out that the effort has been done already.
> ultimately, the more the merrier I guess.
>
> Mateusz
> --
> FreeDOS is present on the USENET, too! alt.os.free-dos
>
>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] fltkal a DOS fork of FLTK using Allegro and DJGPP

[Mark Olesen]

I built the demo using stock allegro-4.2.3.1 from the following repo

https://github.com/liballeg/allegro5/releases/download/v4-2-3-1/all4231.zip

I have no idea what the differences are from 4.2.2 and 4.2.3. DJGPP
provides a 4.2.2 and it may be worthwhile to try and build with it.

On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 9:12 AM, Rugxulo <rugx...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 12:54 AM, Mark Olesen <markjole...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I am working on a project forking FLTK to run on FreeDOS.
> >
> > It is a work in progress but is coming around nicely.
>
> Looks good!
>
> BTW, what Allegro are you using? Stock 4.2.2? Raine dude's patched
> version? Other?
>
> * https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/
> devel/libs/allegro/contrib/
> * http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/board_entry.php?id=14983#p14983
>
> I'm not really super familiar with Allegro, just (barely!) toyed with
> it a few times (not lately). I think some few DOS-based Doom ports
> still try to use old 3.x, ugh!
>
> * http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=24=40857
>
> Also, neozeed has been mucking with an ancient GCC for his Doom builds
> using older Allegro.
>
> * https://virtuallyfun.com/
> * https://sourceforge.net/projects/crossdjgppv1/
>
> (It's always annoying how hard it is to reliably rebuild stuff. Some
> times it just seriously won't work, even if the compile+link
> succeeds.)
>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] fltkal a DOS fork of FLTK using Allegro and DJGPP

[Mark Olesen]

This is a native port of FLTK to DOS. It does not require
microwindows/nano-x. The feature set is what FLTK provides, a simple GUI
toolkit.

On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 12:36 AM, Mateusz Viste <mate...@nospam.viste.fr>
wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Feb 2018 23:54:32 -0700, Mark Olesen wrote:
> > I am working on a project forking FLTK to run on FreeDOS.
> >
> > The github page is:
> > https://github.com/markjolesen/fltkal
>
> Georg did it a couple of years ago.
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/fltk-dos/
>
> Will your port have some other goals? Different feature-set? Just curious.
>
> Mateusz
> --
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>
>
> 
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[Freedos-devel] fltkal a DOS fork of FLTK using Allegro and DJGPP

[Mark Olesen]

I am working on a project forking FLTK to run on FreeDOS.

The github page is:

https://github.com/markjolesen/fltkal

A sample (lame) demo can be found here:

https://youtu.be/FpA-R-ko_z4

It is a work in progress but is coming around nicely.

Comments and suggestions are welcome.
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Compiling with gcc

[Mark Olesen]

GCC is not capable of producing pure 16-bit binaries even with -m16.

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Jim Hall  wrote:

> > On Thu, 26 Oct 2017, David McMackins wrote:
> >
> >> I have been informed that gcc has a -m16 flag that actually outputs
> >> binaries that can run in 16-bit mode. Is there then anything stopping
> >> FreeDOS from being compiled fully with gcc?
> >>
> >> If not, why are we still using Watcom?
>
> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 8:48 AM, Steve Nickolas  wrote:
> > Pretty sure that GCC, if it supports 8088/286 at all, can't handle all
> the
> > memory models (this was, iirc, DJ Delorie's justification for why DJGPP
> > would only do 386+ binaries - think he said it would at best only support
> > the tiny and small models, and some of the FreeDOS tools need other
> memory
> > models.)
>
> It would be interesting to try GCC in 16-bit mode. I wonder if this
> works in the DJGPP version, which is the version of GCC (5.5) that
> runs on DOS.
>
> Steve raises a good point about the memory models. DOS compilers
> (including Watcom) can generate different executable memory models,
> suitable for different sizes of applications. Some FreeDOS programs
> use Tiny memory model, for example.
>
> David: would you like to try compiling some FreeDOS programs under GCC
> using -m16 flag? The Kernel is big project, so starting with some
> utilities would be a good first experiment.
>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] LS by Mark Olesen

[Mark Olesen]

I appreciate your feedback. Thank you.

I ran on Windows 98 SE successfully. So, I am unable to debug because I can
not replicate your exact issue (crash). However, there were output issues.
I will at least try to debug those items.

Regards,
Mark J. Olesen

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 4:12 PM, Jose Antonio Senna <
jasse...@vivointernetdiscada.com.br> wrote:

>  I tested LS.EXE in a DOS window under
> Windows 98 and it causes the abrupt
> closing of the window.
>
>  This happens no matter what the options
> I used, ls, ls .\, ls ./, ls --help,
> ls -a .\ and many others.
>
>  The error details are just
> Unspecified error
> Location 16DA:013C
>
>  The segment part vary somewhat
> (reflecting where the program was
> loaded ?), but the offset is always
> the same.
>
>  Regards
>  JAS
>
>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] announcing DOSUTIL - LS

[Mark Olesen]

Great tips. I modified the makefile using your suggestions. Thank you.

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:22 PM, Rugxulo <rugx...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 8:02 PM, Mark Olesen <markjole...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Just for fun, I created an LS binary for FreeDOS.
> >
> > It is hosted on github and can be found here:
> >
> > https://github.com/markjolesen/dosutil
>
> Cool stuff. Though I haven't actually run it yet (nor built atop DOS
> proper).
>
> Just a few tips:
>
> 1). You don't need a separate ls.lnk file at all, even under DOS.
>
> For DOS, you can use "CC = *wcc" (notice the asterisk, aka star) for
> working with "long" cmdlines. In this case, you would use "*wlink". (I
> haven't personally tested this particular fix in native DOS yet, but
> I've successfully done it for other projects.) See section 10.39 in
> tools.pdf.
>
> So the relevant makefile lines would now be:
>
> ls.exe : $(OBJS)
> *wlink name ls.exe format dos debug all op map file $(OBJS: =,)
>
> (You linked objects in different order in ls.lnk, but when I adjusted
> the makefile to use the same order, the resultant binary was the exact
> same as yours, built here on Win7 64-bit. And yes, you need "format
> dos" else it seems to think it's a Win16 .EXE, ugh.).
>
> 2). The other obvious improvement is this:
>
> clean: .SYMBOLIC
> @rm -f *.obj ls.exe *.map
>
> I take it that you didn't know that Wmake has its own "rm" built-in?
> So no need to use multiple "del"s here. (tools.pdf also mentions that
> Wmake intercepts "set" and "for".)
>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] announcing DOSUTIL - LS

[Mark Olesen]

It is not a port. It is a 16-bit clone with a FreeDOS attitude weighing in
less then 6K and pretty darn fast. I did it because it was fun. Whether or
not it is useful is another matter.

Porting Unix programs to a DOS based system is not that straight forward.
DJGPP provides a bunch of wrappers to get the functionality to do it.
However, they are 32-bit PM apps. Great stuff for sure.

Anyway, it came to my attention that Ercan is working on DOS Coreutils
Project.

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Louis Santillan <lpsan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Not to pooh-pooh what you've done, but maybe you'd want to explore
> something like suckless sbase [0][1], ubase [2][3], or toybox [4] or
> beastiebox [5]?  With OpenWatcom and/or DJGPP, it shouldn't be as hard
> to port them.
>
> [0] http://core.suckless.org/sbase
> [1] http://git.suckless.org/sbase/tree/
> [2] http://core.suckless.org/ubase
> [3] http://git.suckless.org/ubase/tree/
> [4] http://landley.net/toybox/about.html
> [5] http://beastiebox.sourceforge.net/
>
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:02 PM, Mark Olesen <markjole...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Just for fun, I created an LS binary for FreeDOS.
> >
> > It is hosted on github and can be found here:
> >
> > https://github.com/markjolesen/dosutil
> >
> > It is released into the Public Domain.
> >
> > I was reading the FreeDOS e-mail list where Jim Hall was wanting Gnuish
> > utilities for FreeDOS. So, I was curios as to how hard it would be to
> create
> > some of the GNU coreutils. I realize there are DJGPP and other binaries
> > available. So, another replicate would most likely not be much use to the
> > public at large. However, for personal amusement I figured I would give
> it a
> > shot. Hopefully, someone else can enjoy it as well or glean something
> from
> > the madness of my coding. Let me know.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> --
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> >
>
> 
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[Freedos-devel] announcing DOSUTIL - LS

[Mark Olesen]

Just for fun, I created an LS binary for FreeDOS.

It is hosted on github and can be found here:

https://github.com/markjolesen/dosutil

It is released into the Public Domain.

I was reading the FreeDOS e-mail list where Jim Hall was wanting Gnuish
utilities for FreeDOS. So, I was curios as to how hard it would be to
create some of the GNU coreutils. I realize there are DJGPP and other
binaries available. So, another replicate would most likely not be much use
to the public at large. However, for personal amusement I figured I would
give it a shot. Hopefully, someone else can enjoy it as well or glean
something from the madness of my coding. Let me know.
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Linux commands in DOS - Minibox

[Mark Olesen]

The links in the actual page route to simtel.net not

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 5:39 AM, Jim Hall <jh...@freedos.org> wrote:

> Do you mean the links from my email?
>
> I just clicked on them again from my phone, and the links work except the
> ftp link. My phone doesn't like ftp, I guess.
>
>
> On May 26, 2017 6:31 AM, "Mark Olesen" <markjole...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was unsuccessful in finding any links that worked. Am I missing
>> something? Did anyone have better luck?
>>
>> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 1:35 AM, Steve Nickolas <usots...@buric.co>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 25 May 2017, Jim Hall wrote:
>>>
>>> Minibox is an interesting project, but I wonder why implement
>>>> everything in one large binary, just to execute simple commands. I
>>>> know you are mimicking Busybox (above). But on a DOS system, it seems
>>>> very resource heavy to load a large exe that requires DPMI to do
>>>> commands like: (from the README)
>>>>
>>>>  beep
>>>>  cat
>>>>  cd
>>>>  clear
>>>>  cp
>>>>  date
>>>>  echo
>>>>  ls
>>>>  mkdir
>>>>  mv
>>>>  pwd
>>>>  rm
>>>>  rmdir
>>>>  sh
>>>>  time
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wouldn't it be easier and more resource efficient to implement these
>>>> as small, individual programs? "cat" is not a very big program, for
>>>> example.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This.
>>>
>>> There's an interesting parallel here, and I think this would make a
>>>> good project for someone: Years ago, there was the "GNUish" project,
>>>> which ported the GNU utilities to DOS. But eventually the project
>>>> stalled. Before GNUish shut down, they reached out to me to mirror
>>>> their files. You can find them here:
>>>> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/
>>>>
>>>> Info here:
>>>> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/gnuish.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think it would be great for someone to pick up the GNUish project
>>>> again. Port the GNU Utilities (ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/) to FreeDOS
>>>> using OpenWatcom, or DJGPP. This is likely challenging, as it will
>>>> require creating wrappers for different functionality, workarounds for
>>>> other functionality that doesn't (or can't?) exist on DOS, etc.
>>>>
>>>> *That* is something that would be really interesting on FreeDOS! We
>>>> already have some Unix-like programs in FreeDOS (cal, du, bc, grep,
>>>> sed, ...) and a few utilities exist at DJ Delorie's repo, but AFAIK no
>>>> one has created a comprehensive update to GNUish.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think one of the last updates to GNUish was when I got a wild hair and
>>> ported over a then-recent "cpio".  That had to be around 2000...
>>>
>>> I've thought of doing something similar to GNUish using rewritten code
>>> and/or BSD code but there's not much stuff that ports over without a lot of
>>> rewriting, and back in those days I was a newcomer to C.  Maybe I should
>>> try again.
>>>
>>> -uso.
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Linux commands in DOS - Minibox

[Mark Olesen]

I was unsuccessful in finding any links that worked. Am I missing
something? Did anyone have better luck?

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 1:35 AM, Steve Nickolas  wrote:

> On Thu, 25 May 2017, Jim Hall wrote:
>
> Minibox is an interesting project, but I wonder why implement
>> everything in one large binary, just to execute simple commands. I
>> know you are mimicking Busybox (above). But on a DOS system, it seems
>> very resource heavy to load a large exe that requires DPMI to do
>> commands like: (from the README)
>>
>>  beep
>>  cat
>>  cd
>>  clear
>>  cp
>>  date
>>  echo
>>  ls
>>  mkdir
>>  mv
>>  pwd
>>  rm
>>  rmdir
>>  sh
>>  time
>>
>>
>> Wouldn't it be easier and more resource efficient to implement these
>> as small, individual programs? "cat" is not a very big program, for
>> example.
>>
>
> This.
>
> There's an interesting parallel here, and I think this would make a
>> good project for someone: Years ago, there was the "GNUish" project,
>> which ported the GNU utilities to DOS. But eventually the project
>> stalled. Before GNUish shut down, they reached out to me to mirror
>> their files. You can find them here:
>> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/
>>
>> Info here:
>> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/gnuish/gnuish.htm
>>
>>
>> I think it would be great for someone to pick up the GNUish project
>> again. Port the GNU Utilities (ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/) to FreeDOS
>> using OpenWatcom, or DJGPP. This is likely challenging, as it will
>> require creating wrappers for different functionality, workarounds for
>> other functionality that doesn't (or can't?) exist on DOS, etc.
>>
>> *That* is something that would be really interesting on FreeDOS! We
>> already have some Unix-like programs in FreeDOS (cal, du, bc, grep,
>> sed, ...) and a few utilities exist at DJ Delorie's repo, but AFAIK no
>> one has created a comprehensive update to GNUish.
>>
>
> I think one of the last updates to GNUish was when I got a wild hair and
> ported over a then-recent "cpio".  That had to be around 2000...
>
> I've thought of doing something similar to GNUish using rewritten code
> and/or BSD code but there's not much stuff that ports over without a lot of
> rewriting, and back in those days I was a newcomer to C.  Maybe I should
> try again.
>
> -uso.
>
>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] .ini file handling (was: Re: Announcing FDOSTUI)

[Mark Olesen]

No thunder here. I appreciate your tip and will look into it. However, at
this time I am not very enthusiastic to change the current implementation.
Unless of course it blows it away. Thank you.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 2:22 PM, Rugxulo <rugx...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 12:01 AM, Mark Olesen <markjole...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > As suggested, I implemented an INI parser (read only):
> >
> > http://www.nongnu.org/fdostui/ini_8h.html
>
> Not to steal your thunder, and I haven't personally tested it, but I
> found another good one:
>
> "inih (INI Not Invented Here)" ... "Simple .INI file parser in C, good
> for embedded systems" ("New BSD" license)
>
> https://github.com/benhoyt/inih
>
> The main version appears to be in C, but there's also a partial C++
> rewrite.
>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Announcing FDOSTUI

[Mark Olesen]

Hi Folks,

As suggested, I implemented an INI parser (read only):

http://www.nongnu.org/fdostui/ini_8h.html

Following, themeing was fairly straight forward:

http://www.nongnu.org/fdostui/page_themeing.html

Thank you all for your previous suggestions. I look forward to your
comments. Have a great day.

Regards,
Mark

On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 4:28 PM, Jim Hall <jh...@freedos.org> wrote:

> Sounds cool!
>
> I've tweeted your project from the FreeDOS Project twitter. Once
> you've added the INI support, I'd be happy to mention it as a news
> item on our front page to get more exposure.
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Mark Olesen <markjole...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Your right about that. Thanks.
> >
> > I am looking into building an INI library (public domain). It's tempting
> to
> > just rip something off the shelf for this.
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 6:22 AM, Alain Mouette <ala...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I believe that changing a config file is just great for that! Avoinding
> >> bloat is important
> >>
> >> At most, there could be 2 or 3 sets of parameters, not only that would
> >> help but it can also serve as aguide for creating a new one
> >>
> >> Alain
> >>
>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Announcing FDOSTUI

[Mark Olesen]

I appreciate that and will update via the forum when I have an INI/Config
implementation. Thanks for the tweet.

On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 4:28 PM, Jim Hall <jh...@freedos.org> wrote:

> Sounds cool!
>
> I've tweeted your project from the FreeDOS Project twitter. Once
> you've added the INI support, I'd be happy to mention it as a news
> item on our front page to get more exposure.
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Mark Olesen <markjole...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Your right about that. Thanks.
> >
> > I am looking into building an INI library (public domain). It's tempting
> to
> > just rip something off the shelf for this.
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 6:22 AM, Alain Mouette <ala...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I believe that changing a config file is just great for that! Avoinding
> >> bloat is important
> >>
> >> At most, there could be 2 or 3 sets of parameters, not only that would
> >> help but it can also serve as aguide for creating a new one
> >>
> >> Alain
> >>
>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Announcing FDOSTUI

[Mark Olesen]

Your right about that. Thanks.

I am looking into building an INI library (public domain). It's tempting to
just rip something off the shelf for this.

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 6:22 AM, Alain Mouette <ala...@pobox.com> wrote:

> I believe that changing a config file is just great for that! Avoinding
> bloat is important
>
> At most, there could be 2 or 3 sets of parameters, not only that would
> help but it can also serve as aguide for creating a new one
>
> Alain
>
>
> On 02-02-2017 20:26, Mark Olesen wrote:
>
> Skinning at the moment can only be done by modifying code (skin.c). I left
> it out because I do not know the best method of providing a decent
> configuration file without adding allot of code bloat. FLTK has a
> preferences widget (Fl_Preferences), which is a candidate. XML, JSON
> formats are other things to consider. I really don't know the direction to
> take for it. Suggestions are welcome.
>
> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Alain Mouette <ala...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> I like that :)
>>
>> Just one question: can default collors be configured? I would like
>> something like "dialog" in Linux which has a gray background...
>>
>> :)
>> Alain
>>
>>
>> On 01-02-2017 21:49, Mark Olesen wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I liked and made the changes you had pointed out.  Thanks for the input.
>>
>> html pages affected:
>>
>> http://www.nongnu.org/fdostui/page_compiling.html
>> http://www.nongnu.org/fdostui/page_hello.html
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Rugxulo <rugx...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:07 PM, Mark Olesen <markjole...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > FDOSTUI is a C++ library for creating text interfaces.
>>> >
>>> > The project homepage is:
>>> >
>>> > http://www.nongnu.org/fdostui/
>>> >
>>> > Comments and criticism are welcome.
>>>
>>> Disclaimer: due to lack of C++ expertise, I may not do much with this.
>>> Nevertheless, here's some comments anyways (BTW, nice work so far):
>>>
>>> * Why bother with response file for simple uses of WLINK? Why not just
>>> use, e.g. "wlink op stack=4096 ...", etc.?
>>>
>>> * Compiling hello.cpp should normally output hello.exe, so explicitly
>>> using "-fe=" is redundant.
>>>
>>> * "-bt=DOS -l=DOS" is also redundant, use "-bcl" instead.
>>>
>>> * "ncurses compiling" says you're using "cpp" (C preprocessor), which
>>> can't be right. I assume "g++" here (or "gpp" for DJGPP).
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Announcing FDOSTUI

[Mark Olesen]

INI has my upvote. Just not sure of how much scope I would include.

what if you want a class that can be used to read and write to it
(maintaining comments and such)? Complexity is added. I can see code creep.

If it was read only it would be fairly simple and inexpensive. However,
then other code would be scattered throughout to write out there own ini
files.

XML is easy to read/write and is extensible. However, it has allot of
bloat. And user editing is not as straight forward as INI.

After some reading, I dropped JSON as a potential format.

Thanks for the suggestion.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Jerome Shidel <jer...@shidel.net> wrote:

>
>
> On Feb 2, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Mark Olesen <markjole...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Skinning at the moment can only be done by modifying code (skin.c). I left
> it out because I do not know the best method of providing a decent
> configuration file without adding allot of code bloat. FLTK has a
> preferences widget (Fl_Preferences), which is a candidate. XML, JSON
> formats are other things to consider. I really don't know the direction to
> take for it. Suggestions are welcome.
>
>
> Simple INI format (or variant) is an option as well. Very little overhead
> to parse the file.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Alain Mouette <ala...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> I like that :)
>>
>> Just one question: can default collors be configured? I would like
>> something like "dialog" in Linux which has a gray background...
>>
>> :)
>> Alain
>>
>>
>> On 01-02-2017 21:49, Mark Olesen wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I liked and made the changes you had pointed out.  Thanks for the input.
>>
>> html pages affected:
>>
>> http://www.nongnu.org/fdostui/page_compiling.html
>> http://www.nongnu.org/fdostui/page_hello.html
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Rugxulo <rugx...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:07 PM, Mark Olesen <markjole...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > FDOSTUI is a C++ library for creating text interfaces.
>>> >
>>> > The project homepage is:
>>> >
>>> > http://www.nongnu.org/fdostui/
>>> >
>>> > Comments and criticism are welcome.
>>>
>>> Disclaimer: due to lack of C++ expertise, I may not do much with this.
>>> Nevertheless, here's some comments anyways (BTW, nice work so far):
>>>
>>> * Why bother with response file for simple uses of WLINK? Why not just
>>> use, e.g. "wlink op stack=4096 ...", etc.?
>>>
>>> * Compiling hello.cpp should normally output hello.exe, so explicitly
>>> using "-fe=" is redundant.
>>>
>>> * "-bt=DOS -l=DOS" is also redundant, use "-bcl" instead.
>>>
>>> * "ncurses compiling" says you're using "cpp" (C preprocessor), which
>>> can't be right. I assume "g++" here (or "gpp" for DJGPP).
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> ___
>>> Freedos-devel mailing list
>>> Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Freedos-devel mailing 
>> listFreedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
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>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
>> Freedos-devel mailing list
>> Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
>>
>>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> eng

Re: [Freedos-devel] Announcing FDOSTUI

[Mark Olesen]

Skinning at the moment can only be done by modifying code (skin.c). I left
it out because I do not know the best method of providing a decent
configuration file without adding allot of code bloat. FLTK has a
preferences widget (Fl_Preferences), which is a candidate. XML, JSON
formats are other things to consider. I really don't know the direction to
take for it. Suggestions are welcome.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Alain Mouette <ala...@pobox.com> wrote:

> I like that :)
>
> Just one question: can default collors be configured? I would like
> something like "dialog" in Linux which has a gray background...
>
> :)
> Alain
>
>
> On 01-02-2017 21:49, Mark Olesen wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I liked and made the changes you had pointed out.  Thanks for the input.
>
> html pages affected:
>
> http://www.nongnu.org/fdostui/page_compiling.html
> http://www.nongnu.org/fdostui/page_hello.html
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Rugxulo <rugx...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:07 PM, Mark Olesen <markjole...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > FDOSTUI is a C++ library for creating text interfaces.
>> >
>> > The project homepage is:
>> >
>> > http://www.nongnu.org/fdostui/
>> >
>> > Comments and criticism are welcome.
>>
>> Disclaimer: due to lack of C++ expertise, I may not do much with this.
>> Nevertheless, here's some comments anyways (BTW, nice work so far):
>>
>> * Why bother with response file for simple uses of WLINK? Why not just
>> use, e.g. "wlink op stack=4096 ...", etc.?
>>
>> * Compiling hello.cpp should normally output hello.exe, so explicitly
>> using "-fe=" is redundant.
>>
>> * "-bt=DOS -l=DOS" is also redundant, use "-bcl" instead.
>>
>> * "ncurses compiling" says you're using "cpp" (C preprocessor), which
>> can't be right. I assume "g++" here (or "gpp" for DJGPP).
>>
>> 
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
>> Freedos-devel mailing list
>> Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>
>
>
> ___
> Freedos-devel mailing 
> listFreedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
>
>
>
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Announcing FDOSTUI

[Mark Olesen]

Hello,

I liked and made the changes you had pointed out.  Thanks for the input.

html pages affected:

http://www.nongnu.org/fdostui/page_compiling.html
http://www.nongnu.org/fdostui/page_hello.html



On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Rugxulo <rugx...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:07 PM, Mark Olesen <markjole...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > FDOSTUI is a C++ library for creating text interfaces.
> >
> > The project homepage is:
> >
> > http://www.nongnu.org/fdostui/
> >
> > Comments and criticism are welcome.
>
> Disclaimer: due to lack of C++ expertise, I may not do much with this.
> Nevertheless, here's some comments anyways (BTW, nice work so far):
>
> * Why bother with response file for simple uses of WLINK? Why not just
> use, e.g. "wlink op stack=4096 ...", etc.?
>
> * Compiling hello.cpp should normally output hello.exe, so explicitly
> using "-fe=" is redundant.
>
> * "-bt=DOS -l=DOS" is also redundant, use "-bcl" instead.
>
> * "ncurses compiling" says you're using "cpp" (C preprocessor), which
> can't be right. I assume "g++" here (or "gpp" for DJGPP).
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Freedos-devel mailing list
> Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
>
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[Freedos-devel] Announcing FDOSTUI

[Mark Olesen]

FDOSTUI is a C++ library for creating text interfaces.

The project homepage is:

http://www.nongnu.org/fdostui/

Comments and criticism are welcome.
--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___
Freedos-devel mailing list
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel